Patterico's Pontifications

10/8/2020

Commission on Debates Announces Second Debate Will Be Virtual; Trump Says He Will Not Participate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Looking for any excuse:

Here’s the official campaign statement:

“President Trump won the first debate despite a terrible and biased moderator in Chris Wallace, and everybody knows it. For the swamp creatures at the Presidential Debate Commission to now rush to Joe Biden’s defense by unilaterally canceling an in-person debate is pathetic. That’s not what debates are about or how they’re done. Here are the facts: President Trump will have posted multiple negative tests prior to the debate, so there is no need for this unilateral declaration. The safety of all involved can easily be achieved without canceling a chance for voters to see both candidates go head to head. We’ll pass on this sad excuse to bail out Joe Biden and do a rally instead.”

123 Responses to “Commission on Debates Announces Second Debate Will Be Virtual; Trump Says He Will Not Participate”

  1. Maybe he can pretend to raise money for vets again!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Coward.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  3. It’s even worse, because in the end he will probably be forced to acquiesce, and then the news headlines will be “Trump backs down; will participate virtually.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  4. Daily Caller
    @DailyCaller

    The Lincoln Project’s Steve Schmidt says the fly that landed on Mike Pence during the debate last night is a “sign historically of sin” and the “mark of the devil.”

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1314201685292658689?s=20
    __ _

    Ian Miles Cheong
    @stillgray

    Sure thing.

    [photos of Obama and Hillary with a fly on their faces]
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  5. 1. Trump doesn’t have a history of avoiding attention. He’ll show. In between he’ll make a series of inconsistent demands and then claim that the final format is a result of his manly and dominating negotiation.

    2. He should skip the debate. Not because it’s unfair, but because it’s clear that direct comparison between him and Biden favors Biden. Trump would likely be better served using the time to raise funds that could be used to hammer Biden in PA, MI, & OH with whatever stupid thing Biden inevitably says. Biden is winning because he’s running against Trump. More Trump helps Biden. Less Trump could hurt him.

    But Trump won’t do that. If he does skip the debate he’ll likely make so much noise that it drowns out whatever stupid thing Biden does.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  6. Looking for any excuse:

    Rather, looks like the debate commission is looking for any excuse to stack the deck against Trump.

    Add in a biased moderator as well, plus the usual undecided Democrat voters posing questions at a town hall.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  7. @4, it was very biblical how Biden was swarmed by a plague of flies and then wept blood.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  8. Maybe Trump’s “if you like your virus, you can keep your virus” rally will be in newly-declared battleground states, California and New York!

    A day after arguing that he could win in California, where he’s down by 27 points, Trump said in a Fox Business News interview that New York might also be up for grabs.

    “I’m making actually a play for the whole state,” he told host Maria Bartiromo. “I did well there.”

    There’s no evidence his campaign is trying to win in New York, where a Siena poll in late September showed 61% of likely voters backing Biden and 29% backing Trump — a 32-point margin that is among the widest in the country.

    Trump also didn’t do well in California, which last supported a Republican presidential candidate in 1988. His share of the vote in 2016 was just 32%, a six-point drop from Republican nominee Mitt Romney’s 2012 showing.

    Trump is the only source we can trust, right superfans?

    He’s not delusional or losing his grip on reality at all, is he?

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. Looking for any excuse:

    Rather, looks like the debate commission is looking for any excuse to stack the deck against Trump.

    Add in a biased moderator as well, plus the usual undecided Democrat voters posing questions at a town hall.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/8/2020 @ 8:50 am

    Man goes to a doctor and says; “when I touch me head it hurts, when I touch my leg hurts, and when I touch my other hand it hurts. What’s wrong?”
    The Doctor replies “Your wrist is broken.”

    Time123 (dba73f)

  10. Add in a biased moderator as well, plus the usual undecided Democrat voters posing questions at a town hall.

    Well, at some point the Trump campaign agreed to the debate moderators, so if they didn’t do their due diligence beforehand (gosh, any chance that’s the case?) then it’s a bit late to suddenly gripe about it.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  11. Trump doesn’t have a history of avoiding attention.

    Actually he did skip the final debate before the Iowa caucuses in 2016, and it was generally considered to be a reason he narrowly lost to Cruz.

    Patrick’s “pretend to raise money for vets” is allusion to that incident.

    Dave (1bb933)

  12. JVW, it’s never too late for Trump and his fans to gripe. The unfairness of the world towards them is the main part of their platform.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  13. @11, I might need to reconsider.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  14. Trump doesn’t understand a debate to be in any way involving a clash of ideas but instead as a performance where one person physically dominates the other through bulk or stalking, or sneering, or interrupting and talking over. So sure he wants a head to head because he thinks he looks manly and so he can sneer at danger and laugh at his weak afraid opponent.

    So instead apparently he can rant at his followers who will assure him, rapturously, that he is the most manly of them all.

    Victor (661f31)

  15. “I am not going to waste my time.”

    Translation: “If I can’t infect Biden, what’s the point?”

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. Well, at some point the Trump campaign agreed to the debate moderators, so if they didn’t do their due diligence beforehand (gosh, any chance that’s the case?) then it’s a bit late to suddenly gripe about it.

    I commented on this in the other thread. Yes, I agree. Such “due diligence” is just one extra thing, of many, the Republicans have to bother with that Democrats don’t. And, this lack of due diligence was an issue with Romney, McCain, Bush, etc. — just look at the post history in the blog. Candy Crowley?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  17. Ya’ll opining Trump’s a coward?

    The Debate Commission is a bloody crock. They didn’t even attempt to get an agreement between to the two campaign for this change in format.

    Frankly, these “official” debate organizations are a farce. Stop with the pretense that the moderators are “unbiased”.

    They should dispense with that notion and allow each campaign to nominate one moderator each. That way BOTH moderators will have opportunity to question both candidates from different partisan perspective.

    Furthermore, they really REALLY need to mute the candidate’s mic when it’s their opponent’s speaking time. That’ll stop the interruptions and the shoutfest like the 1st debate.

    whembly (c30c83)

  18. Do you think Trump has a good chance of winning New York and California, bnp?

    Dave (1bb933)

  19. Trump is a sissy-boy. When the going gets tough, he throws a hissy fit and runs to mommy.

    nk (1d9030)

  20. @17 – What possible reason could anybody have to object to the debate commission unilaterally deciding to change the agreed-upon structure of the debate? You would have to think that agreements and contracts mean something and we all know agreements and contracts mean nothing to Trump. And that’s why we universally praise him.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  21. It’s not surprising that Trump wants to hold a rally instead. He’s more in his element when he’s surrounded by his idolatrous fanbase, where he can spout lies and hyperboles with impunity. At a debate, that kind of hyperventilation is counterproductive, and he knows it.

    Roger (83ed7d)

  22. Furthermore, they really REALLY need to mute the candidate’s mic when it’s their opponent’s speaking time. That’ll stop the interruptions and the shoutfest like the 1st debate.

    You mean shock collars activated by microphone detection.

    urbanleftbehind (6ab35c)

  23. Two more Lincoln Project ads:

    Recovery

    Stand-by

    The first is short, and very effective.

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. @22

    Furthermore, they really REALLY need to mute the candidate’s mic when it’s their opponent’s speaking time. That’ll stop the interruptions and the shoutfest like the 1st debate.

    You mean shock collars activated by microphone detection.

    urbanleftbehind (6ab35c) — 10/8/2020 @ 9:32 am

    LOL… I’m down with that too!

    But, seriously, mute button exists…. use it.

    whembly (c30c83)

  25. BREAKING NEWS: This is not going to make Barr’s day: A group right-wing militia trunts were arrested by the feds for conspiring to kidnap MI Governor Whitmer before Election Day.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  26. OT/Breaking: The FBI announces it has thwarted a plot by a right-wing militia group to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.

    Dave (1bb933)

  27. Clearly they were trying to LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  28. Could someone design a yard sign for Biden/Harris in the shape of a fly swatter? I don’t usually go for political stickers or yard signs but I would make an exception for that one.

    noel (9fead1)

  29. OT/Breaking: The FBI announces it has thwarted a plot by a right-wing militia group to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.

    Stupid them. They should have just ransacked and burned down Lansing. That is permitted these days, from what I understand.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  30. – What possible reason could anybody have to object to the debate commission unilaterally deciding to change

    False, Jerryskids. Trump broke the agreement. The agreement was to let the other guy talk. It’s normal to break it a little bit. What Trump did was ruin the last debate on purpose. Trump punking out is basically the same thing if you think about it.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  31. @30

    OT/Breaking: The FBI announces it has thwarted a plot by a right-wing militia group to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.

    Stupid them. They should have just ransacked and burned down Lansing. That is permitted these days, from what I understand.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 10/8/2020 @ 9:49 am

    heh… was just about to respond along these lines…

    Seriously though, hope they throw the books at those yahoos without tanking the prosecution, ala the Bundy case.

    whembly (c30c83)

  32. Voters are asking themselves if they can stomach four more years of this. With his morning rants once again on display, he seems to be begging for a landslide loss.

    noel (9fead1)

  33. Biden’s campaign has proposed pushing the debate back by a week “so that the president is not able to evade accountability,” and Trump’s germ-infested campaign manager has said they will agree.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. Trump’s germ-infested campaign manager has said they will agree.

    But that’s meaningless. They take the heat off Trump for a week, then they could just do this again. Trump’s word is worthless.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  35. Shorter Biden: “Please don’t throw me in the briar patch! Oh, please, not that.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  36. Changing ‘the rules’ again.

    This is just stupid.
    ____

    Kidnapping plot to grab MI Gov. Whitmer thwarted.

    This is just stupid, too. Three of the dudes were from Michigan; the fourth from — wait for it—Delaware. Say it ain’t so, Joe?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. CBS News
    @CBSNews

    Pelosi says at her weekly press conference: “By the way, tomorrow — come here tomorrow. We’re going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.”

    25th Amendment lays out succession if the president is incapacitated or deemed unable to carry out his duties
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze

    Planning for a Biden administration already.
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  38. Well maybe that’s how bad the internals were for Harris, make a big splash in the news with Whitmer, then voila…

    urbanleftbehind (6ab35c)

  39. Delaware. Say it ain’t so, Joe?!

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/8/2020 @ 10:12 am

    You joke, but Trump indeed encouraged armed goons to liberate Michigan from its government. He was that upset about social distancing and masks, which he has suggested are domination that we should not permit.

    I’ve never bought the ‘politician’s crosshairs motivated crazy violent weirdo’ argument. It’s pretty ghoulish. Trump is the exception where he actually does want blue states to have death and despair. He did want those guns in the faces of those legislators.

    It’s one thing to note Biden is unfit for office and refuse to support him. It is quite another to support Trump after all this. It’s not far from supporting Hitler. It really isn’t.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  40. THey’re part of somer group calld the ‘Wolverine Watchmen’????

    ‘Squirrel Nuts’ a better name.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. Stupid them. They should have just ransacked and burned down Lansing. That is permitted these days, from what I understand.

    Remind them to take this extra step before hitting the proverbial banks of Red Cedar.

    urbanleftbehind (6ab35c)

  42. It’s just a flesh wound.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Actually he did skip the final debate before the Iowa caucuses in 2016, and it was generally considered to be a reasonable debate for once.

    FIFY.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Kidnapping?

    Much easier to just shoot up a softball game.
    __

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  45. Or derail a passenger train in virginia was it.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  46. Lincoln Project

    1) How come any Republican group that uses Lincoln’s name mostly favors Democrats?

    2) Are they aware that Lincoln was an avowed white supremacist? He just thought slavery was inconsistent with a free nation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. Lincoln Project = Democrat money, Biden campaign, some really good GOP content makers paid to get as many democrats elected as possible. It has nothing to do with Honest Abe or the GOP’s soul.

    Their ads are generally excellent but the idea is BS.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  48. Kidnapping plot to grab MI Gov. Whitmer thwarted.

    As I read the article in the NYT, it seems a bit weird. They had been talking about this for months, but talk isn’t conspiracy by itself. Apparently one or more of the plotters were FBI assets, and they arrested them now because they were “planning” to buy explosives next week. It was more than just talk though — they had surveiled her vacation home in preparation for their operation. Not sure what that means. Also not sure how much leadership came from the FBI assets.

    There have been militia arrests in the past than ever amounted to more than convenient headlines, so I’ll just have to wait and see.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. *never

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. Trump’s word is worthless.

    True, but you may have a higher opinion of most politicians than I do. All have definite time limits on their promises.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. It’s not far from supporting Hitler. It really isn’t.

    Actually, it is. Quite far.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. They conducted multiple training exercises, conducted multiple reconnaissance forays, assembled and tested bombs, purchased weapons, and sought to purchase more weapons and explosives.

    What’s shocking to me is how far they allowed the plot to progress before arresting them. I sure hope they had Whitaker’s security people in the loop.

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. *Whitmer’s

    Stupid spellchecker…

    Dave (1bb933)

  54. Among other things, Hitler wasn’t an idiot.

    But really, Trump could use armed thugs to intimidate voters, arrest sanctuary state governors for insurrection, send DHS goons to attack BLM protesters and send the Army to deport East LA, and he STILL wouldn’t be in the league of a Hitler, Stalin or Mao.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. @53: The NY Times article (which is itself poorly written) says very little of this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. well they can do a lot on the bureaus dime, they nearly killed pam geller,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  57. 2 billion dollars in the hands of a (former?) terrorist, which has underwritten most of this unrest, and the bureau doesn’t care, it’s like the fatah militia in beirut,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  58. UPDATE: Trump campaign agrees to Biden proposal to pushing the second debate to October 22 and a third debate on October 29.

    whembly (c30c83)

  59. Awwwww, poor pouting President Petri-dish. Isn’t allowed to make up his own rules, hates the ref, taking his ball and going home.

    @6/16 The first debate moderator was literally a fox news anchor.

    @8 He’s going to win California by stealing the E off the end of all the signs in the Napa Valley.

    Nic (896fdf)

  60. Among other things, Hitler wasn’t an idiot.

    I think Mussolini is a better analogy though, although he, too, was much more intelligent than Trump.

    Supporting Trump right now isn’t so different from supporting Hitler in 1933 or early 1934. There are more institutional safeguards still in place here, but Trump is eroding them wherever he can.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. Supporting Trump right now isn’t so different from supporting Hitler in 1933 or early 1934.

    Whenever I hear Trump compared to a child, I’m reminded of infantile comments like this.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  62. Dave, you say that like Trump had a master plan rather than acting out whatever he thought of that morning. I really don’t think days connect all that well for him any more.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. @40

    You joke, but Trump indeed encouraged armed goons to liberate Michigan from its government.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/8/2020 @ 10:24 am

    What a ridiculous take. Not everything is a secret conspiratorial signal.

    It’s like when Trump touted Hydroxychloriqine, ya’ll blamed him for some nutjobs drinking fish tank cleaners and died.

    The stupid burns man… burns.

    In Trump’s case (ie, that famous tweet), he’s clearly referring to governor’s state restrictions. One can certainly argue he’s wrong about that without inventing dog whistles.

    This generic rhetoric incited violence standard only goes one way and everyone knows it. A god damned Bernie supporter actually tried to assassinate a group of Congressional Republicans on a ball field and we didn’t have any of this analysis of dog whistles regarding Democrat’s own rhetoric. That story lasted days and the democrat media sycophants couldn’t bury the story fast enough. If the political ideology of the shooter was GOP/Conservative and the targets were of Congressional Democrats, we’d STILL be reading/seeing stories about it.

    It’s one thing if the alleged culprits in this case cited that tweet as part of their motivation, but to simply dig up a months old tweet and create a connection is just absurd.

    whembly (c30c83)

  64. “Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D., Minn.), who once enthusiastically supported the use of “hybrid hearings,” has declared that remote testimony is entirely unacceptable because there is no ability to have exchanges with witnesses in a virtual space.”

    Klobuchar Rejects Use Of Virtual Testimony For Barrett Hearing Because There Is “No Back And Forth”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/virtual-anxiety-klobuchar-rejects-use-virtual-testimony-barrett-hearing-because-there-no
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  65. UPDATE: Trump campaign agrees to Biden proposal to pushing the second debate to October 22 and a third debate on October 29.

    Way to think things through, Mr. President. Move the final two debates — in which you desperately need a solid performance — to dates after which probably 50% of the country will have already cast its ballots.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  66. The treatment that Trump touted as a ‘cure’ for Covid-19 was developed using cells derived from fetal tissue.

    The antibody cocktail for Covid-19 that President Trump touted on Wednesday afternoon was developed with cells originally derived from fetal tissue, a practice that the president had repeatedly condemned.

    In June 2019, the Trump administration suspended federal funding for most new scientific research involving fetal tissue derived from abortions.
    ……
    Mr. Trump last week received Regeneron’s cocktail of monoclonal antibodies — essentially, antibodies synthesized in living cells and administered to help the body fight off the infection.

    To develop the antibodies, Regeneron relied on 293T, a human cell line once derived from fetal tissue. At least two companies racing to produce vaccines against the coronavirus, Moderna and AstraZeneca, also are using the cell line.

    Remdesivir, an antiviral drug Mr. Trump received, also was tested using these cells.

    “293Ts were used in testing the antibodies’ ability to neutralize the virus,” said Alexandra Bowie, a spokeswoman for Regeneron. “They weren’t used in any other way, and fetal tissue was not used in the research.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  67. Whenever I hear Trump compared to a child, I’m reminded of infantile comments like this.

    Yeah, it’s not like Trump is publicly ordering his lackeys to arrest political opponents for imaginary crimes, or repeatedly refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power after he loses the election.

    Oh, wait.

    Dave (1bb933)

  68. “Supporting Trump right now isn’t so different from supporting Hitler in 1933 or early 1934.”
    _

    Remember this folks when Team Harris (Hitler) is putting stuff in front of Biden(Von Hindenberg) to sign before he gets his oatmeal.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  69. @39, your theory is that the FBI, which is run by Trump appointees, arrested these people in coordination with the Biden/Harris campaign based on their internal polling about the debate?

    That’s honestly the dumbest thing I’ve read all day.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  70. That’s honestly the dumbest thing I’ve read all day.

    The day is young…

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. Kevin M @56-

    More detailed quotes from the affidavit are here.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  72. Godwin’s Law kicked in @40. And amazingly, someone beat Dave to it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  73. @69-
    Godwin’s Law in full swing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  74. When Trump is asked about kidnapping I’ll bet 10$ to heffer international that the answer follows this form;

    1. This sounds bad.
    2. But what about antifa and the left.
    3. You can understand their frustration.

    Most of his time will be spent on 2 and 3.

    Any takers on him breaking the streak?

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  75. That’s honestly the dumbest thing I’ve read all day.

    Obviously, you’re working your way up in the thread.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  76. @66

    UPDATE: Trump campaign agrees to Biden proposal to pushing the second debate to October 22 and a third debate on October 29.

    Way to think things through, Mr. President. Move the final two debates — in which you desperately need a solid performance — to dates after which probably 50% of the country will have already cast its ballots.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 10/8/2020 @ 11:46 am

    Gut feeling… I disagree.

    I think those voting in early votings are those minds already made up. It’s the undecideds who’s voting in person that this may be impactful.

    whembly (c30c83)

  77. 59. Dave (1bb933) — 10/8/2020 @ 11:02 am

    What’s shocking to me is how far they allowed the plot to progress before arresting them.

    The FBI always does. And this was probably mostly a sting operation. They probably tried to see if they were willing to commit more serious felonies. (not considered entrapment if they didn’t try to argue them into it)

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  78. Whembly, I agree with your point. But I think it’s a problem that the president has such a hard time clearly stating that things like this are wrong and that he wants no part of it. From what I’ve read of the reactions of the right wingers that do theses things (a small subset to be sure) they feel his statements taken in total are positive and endorsements.

    Here was Benie’s statement after the Scalise shooting

    “I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign,” Sanders said. “I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be: Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values.”

    I don’t like the word apparently because it implies he’s not convinced it’s true without outright challenging the fact. Listening to it i think he sounds embarrassed to admit it more then denying it. YMMV, but it would have been a better statement without that word.

    But the rest of his statement is clear, concise, and unequivocal. He goes on to offer prayers for the injured and thanks for the LEO that were on the scene.

    This is the type of response that Trump hasn’t been able to deliver on these things. When he does clearly speak against violence he has stepped all over it with ‘buts’ excuses and whatabout. AFAIK there isn’t a follow up statement by bernie that confused this initial message.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  79. @77 Whembly Your question about when people make up their mind is interesting. Have you seen any research on it? I have no idea if you’re right or not…but interesting thought.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  80. When Trump is asked about kidnapping I’ll bet 10$ to heffer international that the answer follows this form

    But you left out the most entertaining parts!

    4) TrumpWorld will indignantly insist that Trump didn’t say what he said, and *how dare anyone suggest* that he meant it! Why, it simply proves the desperation and dishonesty of Trump’s critics that they would twist his words by repeating them verbatim!

    5) After a sufficient interval for his cultists to beclown themselves, but in any event within 24 hours, Trump’s Twitter account or facial sphincter will confirm that You’re g*ddamned right I meant it! And why hasn’t Barr locked up that woman from Michigan himself?!

    Dave (1bb933)

  81. Supporting Trump right now isn’t so different from supporting Hitler in 1933 or early 1934.

    Whenever I hear Trump compared to a child, I’m reminded of infantile comments like this.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/8/2020 @ 11:34 am

    You probably won’t love “Toddler in Chief

    But it’s Top 50 right now in it’s relevant genres and has 4.5 stars from 257 reviews.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  82. Too Hard to prove all that. Want to take the bet?

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  83. He fails to move the date of the election. He loses the debate. He cancels on second debate. Polls are abysmal. What’s a guy to do?

    Demand the AG indict his opponent. His former opponent. And the former President. Lock em up! That’s what.

    Take that you monsters and commies.

    noel (9fead1)

  84. Godwin’s Law in full swing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/8/2020 @ 11:54 am

    It is what it is. Eventually we got a guy who tells white supremacists to stand by, foments enormous hate, and is running against an idiot.

    I used to roll my eyes when Bush was called McHalliburton Chimphitler, or whatever that was.

    But don’t say it couldn’t happen here. If you read comments on Trump supporting blogs, a lot of them are hoping for a civil war. It’s hard to imagine the stupidity of anyone actually wanting to be in a civil war, but these are serious times.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  85. Kidnapping?

    Kidnapping is a very serious federal crime, ever since the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby. The FBI probably had its informants suggest it.

    Now people talking about doing all kinds of danger to life crimes is not a thing maybe to leave alone.

    It’s not necessarily a bad thing to offer them an opportunity and put them to the test.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  86. Actually, it is. Quite far.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/8/2020 @ 11:00 am

    Kevin, you’re right there are differences, but only in hindsight. Hitler was probably more competent than Trump, but not necessarily. The flow of information is much harder to control now.

    Bottom line, Trump has made himself above the law, has not been pleased with condemning white supremacists or a peaceful transition of power, and he is ruthless in making deals with some very bad people, even supporting Xi’s camps.

    The only reason he’s not compared to Hitler often is that the concept of making the comparison has been considered off limits during the Bush era.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  87. Agreeing to push the debates back is a big tactical blunder by Biden. “Are you better off than 4 years ago” happened on October 28 with the election on November 4, 1980. The span between October 29 and November 3, 2020. is 2 days less. He should have toughed it out for Oct. 15.

    urbanleftbehind (c89eac)

  88. @80

    @77 Whembly Your question about when people make up their mind is interesting. Have you seen any research on it? I have no idea if you’re right or not…but interesting thought.

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Just common sense. If you’re going out of your way to vote before the election day, logic states that you’ve already made up your mind by that point.

    The only downfall of voting early, is if something MAJOR happens that makes you reconsider.

    whembly (c30c83)

  89. @86, The FBI is alleging that they surveilled her house on 2 occasions as part of the planning. That IANAL lawyer but that sounds like an overt act to me.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  90. @89, I’ll add this to the list of things I want to know more about. There should be some empirical data since it seems like something that would be important to effective campaign strategy. What % of the voter base decides to vote and who to vote for by time until election day.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  91. @79

    Whembly, I agree with your point. But I think it’s a problem that the president has such a hard time clearly stating that things like this are wrong and that he wants no part of it. From what I’ve read of the reactions of the right wingers that do theses things (a small subset to be sure) they feel his statements taken in total are positive and endorsements.

    Trump has his “style” and it obviously doesn’t work for everyone.

    But to claim that Trump doesn’t do more to denounce these bad acts is gaslighting, as he’s has condemned these folks numerous times.

    Here was Benie’s statement after the Scalise shooting

    “I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign,” Sanders said. “I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be: Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values.”

    I wasn’t talking about Bernie’s response to this… I was referring to the democrat supportors and media sycophant’s responses.

    I don’t like the word apparently because it implies he’s not convinced it’s true without outright challenging the fact. Listening to it i think he sounds embarrassed to admit it more then denying it. YMMV, but it would have been a better statement without that word.

    Eh… I believe Bernie was sincere there. As much as I despises Bernie’s politics…it’s undeniable how sincere Bernie is. (which is why he resonate to socialist, as he’s one of those “happy warrior” for the cause).

    But the rest of his statement is clear, concise, and unequivocal. He goes on to offer prayers for the injured and thanks for the LEO that were on the scene.

    Agreed.

    This is the type of response that Trump hasn’t been able to deliver on these things. When he does clearly speak against violence he has stepped all over it with ‘buts’ excuses and whatabout. AFAIK there isn’t a follow up statement by bernie that confused this initial message.

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:05 pm

    Again, Trump has his distinctive style that works for some and for others, particularly for his critics, it doesn’t.

    However, it’s undeniable that the media likes to manufacture BS… hence why Trump riposte to ‘buts’ excuses.

    whembly (c30c83)

  92. Could Trump, perhaps on advice of counsel, be trying to lay the foundation for an insanity defense in his post-presidential fraud, tax-evasion and election-tampering trials?

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. However, it’s undeniable that the media likes to manufacture BS… hence why Trump riposte to ‘buts’ excuses.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:38 pm

    If you read the reactions of the people he’s talking about they’re very clear that they don’t find his condemnations convincing either.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  94. @94 and that’s not Trump’s fault either.

    Just as it isn’t Bernie’s fault for that Berniebro shooting up some GOP congresscritters.

    whembly (c30c83)

  95. urbankeftbehind @88 In 1980 there was no early voting and much less absentee voting, so the difference is even bigger tan that.

    Dave @93. I don’t think insanity defenses usually work for non-violent crimes, and anyway the idea that Trump would be trying to look insane is preposterous.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  96. Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    TO MY FAVORITE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!
    __ _

    John Aravosis
    @aravosis

    If Trump is so healthy, why does it look like this video was filmed in front of a green screen?
    __ _

    John Aravosis
    @aravosis
    ·
    2/ Trump faked this video released today. It’s shot in front of a green screen, the background is fake & on 3-second loop. Is Trump so unwell that he can’t even step outside to film a video?

    Attached is zoomed in video of the bushes to the right. On loop.
    [re-tweeted quite a bit]
    __ _

    Chris Hayes
    @Chrishayes

    I think it’s clearly a green screen. Also it’s a very long way to bring a sick president to shoot something when you have the rose garden.
    __ _

    Kathryn Cramer
    @KathrynECramer
    ·
    I would go further. The body also looks fake, and like the gestures are rigged with Mixamo or similar. The texture of the fabrics looks especially simulated. It looks to me like the Trump administration is doing their own deep fakes to make Trump look healthy.
    __ _

    Jeff Hubbs
    @jeffhubbs
    ·
    Not necessarily. Compression often turns parts of video that aren’t moving into an unchanging still. Slight movement in such a part, once detected by the compression algorithm, triggers a repaint of that part and that can look like a cut.
    __ _

    NTW
    @NWiseOwl
    ·
    he’s literally broken these people and its hilarious

    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  97. There’s no question he faked that video in front of a green screen.

    Dave (1bb933)

  98. Ankit Panda
    @nktpnd
    ·
    Deleted the original tweet since it was getting too many RTs for a lay observation; I’m not confident either way. It’s a weird video.

    _

    Well OK then.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  99. @94 and that’s not Trump’s fault either.

    Just as it isn’t Bernie’s fault for that Berniebro shooting up some GOP congresscritters.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:47 pm

    These are separate things. People are responsible for the the things they do and say. But if Trump is trying to make his condemnation of violence done by people who agree with him politically clear he’s failing to convince the people doing the violence that he’s sincere. That is on him.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  100. “They are oppressing you for a paycheck. If you’re still supporting law enforcement, you are supporting the people who are enforcing slavery on everyone else.” -Brandon Caserta, a man who was arrested for a plot to kidnap Gov. Whitmer.

    He’s a police hating anarchist.

    Remind me how this dude is labeled as a conservative?

    whembly (c30c83)

  101. @97, those are the musings of crazy people…they’re the 2nd dumbest thing I’ve seen today. 😉

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  102. If you read the reactions of the people he’s talking about they’re very clear that they don’t find his condemnations convincing either.

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    Bingo. We all know what Trump said. There’s always some ‘but actually’. but come on.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  103. Biden again cornered in Phoenix aerodrome and asked to answer questions on court packing; says he won’t answer question because ‘his answer will become the issue.’

    Duh. That’s what running for office is all about, IDIOT.

    You have to be brain dead to vote for this brain-damaged imbecile.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. Now this is an exit poll – of, naturally, Election Day voters.

    Election Day was Tuesday, November 8, 2016 (same as in 1988)

    https://www.wcvb.com/article/quarter-of-voters-only-recently-made-up-mind-exit-poll-shows/8272593

    Quarter of voters only recently made up mind, exit poll shows

    According to ABC News’ exit polls, a quarter of voters only made up their mins this month, so what does that mean?

    Updated: 8:13 PM EST Nov 8, 2016

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-really-did-switch-to-trump-at-the-last-minute …But the latest wave of the Institute for the Study of Citizens and Politics panel survey that my University of Pennsylvania colleague Diana Mutz and I have been overseeing is now complete, and it provides new evidence that voters did shift to Trump in the final weeks of the campaign, too.

    Panel surveys differ from other polls in that they re-interview the same people repeatedly, allowing us to see how specific Americans’ attitudes shift over time. They thus help us sidestep the problem that some groups of people might be more likely to take polls when their candidate is thought to be doing well or receiving favorable press coverage. Our October 2016 wave was conducted with nationally sampled adults over age 26 between Oct. 14 and Oct. 24, meaning that it ended soon after the third Clinton-Trump debate. At the time, Clinton was riding high in the polls — and 43 percent of our panelists in that wave expressed support for Clinton, as opposed to 36 percent for Trump. By way of benchmarking, this same group of panelists had gone for President Obama over Mitt Romney 46 percent to 39 percent in October 2012…

    …And while most people’s support remained the same, the changes we did observe were consequential. Consider the table below, showing panelists’ support in the October 2016 poll versus their support in the post-election poll, which took place from Nov. 28 to Dec. 7. Eighty-nine percent of the 1,075 American adults reported the same preference in both waves, whether it was for Clinton (38.0 percent), Trump (35.2 percent) or neither (15.8 percent). But among those who did move, Trump had the advantage. While no one moved from Trump to Clinton, 0.9 percent of our respondents moved from Clinton to Trump. Although that 0.9 percent isn’t a lot, those changes are especially influential, since they simultaneously reduce Clinton’s tally and add to Trump’s. If there were a comparable swing in the national electorate, 1.2 million votes would move to Trump.

    Trump also outpaced Clinton among people who were previously undecided or third-party backers, with 3.1 percent of respondents moving from those categories to Trump while just 2.3 percent did the same for Clinton. Clinton also saw 3.1 percent of her October supporters defecting to third-party candidates or becoming undecided. Trump lost just 1.7 percent.

    In all, Trump picked up 4.0 percentage points among people who hadn’t been with him in mid-October, and shed just 1.7 percentage points for a net gain of 2.3 points. Clinton picked up a smaller fraction — 2.3 points — and shed 4.0 points for a net loss of 1.7 points. That’s certainly consistent with Trump gaining steam in the race’s final weeks. Seeing as the 2016 election was held on the latest possible day given the mandate to hold it on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, we might just add the 2016 leap year to the ever-growing list of reasons why Trump prevailed….

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  105. Remind me how this dude is labeled as a conservative?

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:56 pm

    Most Trump fans really aren’t. Conservatives believe everyone is equal before the law. That’s definitely not what you see from Trump, ever.

    But Trump ordered his fans, in all caps, to liberate Michigan from its elected leaders. He needs as much unrest as possible.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  106. You have to be brain dead to vote for this brain-damaged imbecile.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:59 pm

    Against George W Bush, sure. Against Trump? No, you’d have to love your country very much to vote for Biden despite disagreeing with him on almost everything, to stop what’s happening right now.

    I agree Biden’s refusal to disclaim court packing is awful.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  107. Trump Mega-Fundraiser to Plead Guilty in Foreign Influence Scheme

    Former high-dollar Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy plans to plead guilty to a federal criminal charge over an alleged scheme to influence the Trump administration on behalf of a Malaysian businessman at the center of a massive international money laundering conspiracy.

    In a criminal information filing filed in federal court in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday, the Justice Department accuses Broidy of accepting millions of dollars to press the administration to abandon or reduce its criminal probe into Jho Low, who is accused of orchestrating a multi-billion-dollar fraud against a Malaysian government investment fund.

    Broidy, if you recall, is the former RNC deputy finance chair who was caught paying the Playboy model he had an affair with $1.6M to have an abortion in a deal arranged by Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen.

    Dave (1bb933)

  108. @101 Radley Balko wrote about police over reach at Reason for years and worked for CATO. His beat hasn’t much changed over the years, although he seems to have gotten less error prone.

    Here’s the video he said that in.

    At one point this plucky band of domestic terrorists was planning how to do battle with the state police at the Capitol.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  109. whembly @89. I think the word you’re looking for is downside, not downfall. And Trump meant to say stand down in the debate, not stand by.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  110. Broidy, if you recall, is the former RNC deputy finance chair who was caught paying the Playboy model he had an affair with $1.6M to have an abortion in a deal arranged by Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen.

    I’ve always wondered why / how Cohen got involved in that.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  111. @107.It’s worse than ‘awful.’ It is IDIOTIC.

    If a kid acted kid acted like this he’d be ‘taken behind the gymnasium’ a-la-Joe Biden taught a lesson in … manners.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. I’ve always wondered why / how Cohen got involved in that.

    Experience.

    Dave (1bb933)

  113. Nancy won’t negotiate on Covid relief as millions of Americans are ‘left in limbo’– but has time to hold pressers waving the 25th amendment.

    Another idiot. She’s crusing for a hair dressing appointment… ‘behind the gymnasium,’ too. But at least she has been seen in a dress, eh Kamala?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. 102. Time123 (52fb0e) — 10/8/2020 @ 12:56 pm

    those are the musings of crazy people…they’re the 2nd dumbest thing I’ve seen today.

    The New York Times had a front page article about Trump illness conspiracy theories.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/technology/Trump-conspiracy-theories.html

    The other night, as President Trump convalesced at Walter Reed, I took a spin through social media to see the latest news on his health.

    Instead, what I found were a bunch of paranoid partisans posting grainy, zoomed-in photos, analyzing video footage frame by frame, and people straining to connect the dots on far-fetched conspiracy theories involving a cabal of nefarious elites staging an elaborate cover-up.

    No, I didn’t stumble into a room for QAnon, the pro-Trump conspiracy theory. In fact, many of the people sharing bogus and unverified claims on my feeds were die-hard Democrats. Some of them were speculating, with no evidence, that Mr. Trump was faking his bout with Covid-19 to engender sympathy and boost his re-election chances. Others claimed that Mr. Trump had died and been replaced by a body double (nope), that he had gotten a secret vaccine from Russia and was quarantining until it took effect (also nope) or that he had deliberately contracted the disease to distract the public from a New York Times article about his taxes (creative, but doubtful).

    None of these theories passed the smell test, but they were retweeted and shared thousands of times anyway. Zignal Labs, a firm that tracks online misinformation, said that the theory that Mr. Trump had faked his illness had been mentioned more than 85,000 times on social media, and that the hashtag #TrumpCovidHoax, which trended on Twitter in the United States, had been mentioned more than 75,000 times…

    …Unsatisfied with the official explanations given by Mr. Trump’s doctors, they sought out their own sources, like the TikTok account of Claudia Conway, the 15-year-old daughter of the former presidential adviser Kellyanne Conway, who offered a grimmer prognosis.

    And when the president did emerge from Walter Reed, armchair pulmonologists pored over his homecoming video as if it were a modern-day Zapruder film, looking for evidence that he was still in dire shape.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  115. @110

    whembly @89. I think the word you’re looking for is downside, not downfall. And Trump meant to say stand down in the debate, not stand by.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/8/2020 @ 1:05 pm

    Yes, you’re right.

    Fingers wasn’t listening to my brain.

    Thanks!

    whembly (c30c83)

  116. Sammy, Nice job on NYT for calling out LW crazy!

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  117. SC @115

    Sounds like some people here regarding ______________ (fill in blank) news.

    Rip Murdock (82f8fa)

  118. Sometimes Trump tells four lies in a single sentence.

    There is ample justification to be suspicious of anything and everything he says, or said in his name.

    Presenting speculation without evidence as fact, of course, should be avoided, as that is what Trump does routinely.

    Dave (1bb933)

  119. Henry Rodgers
    @henryrodgersdc
    ·
    Biden is AGAIN refusing to answer a question on packing the court… WOW. Says the only reason he won’t answer the question is because it would be the headline on every paper...

    __ _

    There are much more important issues facing the American voter today like flies at debates and strangely moving White House trees.
    __

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  120. There are much more important issues facing the American voter today like flies at debates and strangely moving White House trees.

    And why the President of the United States won’t commit to a peaceful transfer of power after the election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. @120, He needs a better response like

    “I would obviously prefer not to do that and I hope the GOP respects the norms that have been in place for years regarding the rights of the minority.”

    Or

    “No one wants to do that. I hope we don’t have to.”

    Or

    “The honest answer to that depends on things we don’t know yet about the Nominee and how the hearing process will be held. I’m a Senate institutionalist. I don’t want to do it and it’s not something anyone wants to do.”

    or

    “F*&( around and find out”

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  122. 85.

    If you read comments on Trump supporting blogs, a lot of them are hoping for a civil war.

    Not only Trump supporting ones. It’s a frequent topic in the Volokh comment threads, including regular fantasizing about slaughtering liberals.

    As for comparing Trump to Hitler, Hitler comparisons of any kind are rarely productive. The immediate association most people have when they hear “Hitler” is to Hitler at his barbaric apex, i.e., war for Aryan domination, industrial scale genocide, etc. It’s obviously silly to compare Trump to that, but that’s the association you have to fight your way out of when you invoke the H man. I think there’s an interesting discussion to be had about where Trump belongs on the spectrum between a normal small d democratic politician and an earlier stage Hitler-type, but that conversation becomes nearly impossible as soon as you bring Hitler into it.

    There’s also the matter that decades of wolf-crying “Nixon-Hitler”, “Reagan-Hitler” and “Bush-Hitler” have turned any mention of Hitler into more a cause for eye-rolling than for alarm.

    lurker (d8c5bc)


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