Patterico's Pontifications

10/6/2020

Team Pence Unwilling To Take Reasonable Safety Measures At Debate

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:26 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Because we are in the time of stupid, this:

Mike Pence does not want plexiglass barriers around him at the vice presidential debate against Kamala Harris on Wednesday, a top aide to the vice president told CNN on Tuesday, rebuffing an announcement from the Commission on Presidential debates that the dividers would be used to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

“We have yet to hear medical evidence what the plexiglass is for,” Pence’s chief of staff Marc Short told CNN.

The plexiglass dividers, which were announced by the commission on Monday night, were the latest in a string of changes made to ensure the virus is not spread at the debate as the White House deals with a growing number of infections inside Donald Trump’s administration.

Physical barriers like plexiglass are typically recommended when social distancing cannot be maintained. The candidates will be separated by 12 feet on stage. Masks are considered the best defense against both droplet and aerosolized transmission of the virus.

Pence has no problem with Harris having a plexiglass shield around her if she wants. He just doesn’t want one for himself, which would help protect her:

Short said the Pence team doesn’t have a problem if Harris would like a plexiglass shield to protect her from the virus at the debate. But the Pence team believes it’s not necessary for the vice president to have plexiglass as well.

A Pence aide also told CNN that Harris and the moderators “can do whatever they want,” but the vice president’s team does not feel like they have to follow along.

So, for Pence, it’s no mask and no shield. And even though Pence attended the now notorious White House Rose Garden event, his doctors say that because he was not in close contact with any individuals who later became infected, he doesn’t need to quarantine:

Jesse Schonau, Pence’s physician, said in a memo released Tuesday that the vice president does not need to quarantine because he was not a “close contact” with anyone who has tested positive for Covid-19 as defined by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Pence has had multiple coronavirus tests that have resulted negative.

Uh-oh: we are now learning that more people have tested positive, including Pence’s own press secretary:

Senior White House policy adviser Stephen Miller has tested positive for coronavirus, according to a source close to him.

His wife, Vice President Mike Pence’s press secretary Katie Miller, tested positive for coronavirus in May.

Look, Team Harris is just playing better politics here:

“Senator Harris will be at the debate, respecting the protections that the Cleveland Clinic has put in place to promote safety for all concerned,” said Sabrina Singh, a Harris campaign spokeswoman. “If the Trump administration’s war on masks has now become a war on safety shields, that tells you everything you need to know about why their COVID response is a failure.”

While I’m not a Harris supporter, this makes sense. The optics are good, and it shows a desire by Team Harris to keep everyone – even their opponents – safe. On the other hand, Team Pence is clearly unwilling to go the extra mile to keep everyone as safe as possible, and that is not a good look in the least – especially when Pence’s boss is currently in quarantine after having tested positive for COVID-19 and released from the hospital last night.

I understand why Trump wants to continue to downplay the virus and try to convince Americans that he has conquered COVID-19 like a boss, it nonetheless boggles the mind that he and his team don’t seem to grasp that this foolishly arrogant attitude will not draw in any new voters for Trump’s reelection. On the contrary, he risks losing even more voters because of his continuing recklessness and unconscionable behavior. If there was even a small demonstration of humility and public acknowledgment by the Trump camp that they are now willing to do everything in their power to keep their neighbors safe, they might have a chance of reaching some undecideds. Clearly, they’re not interested. Even a plexiglass shield is a bridge too far.

–Dana

104 Responses to “Team Pence Unwilling To Take Reasonable Safety Measures At Debate”

  1. So Stephen Miller is sick, and Trump said today there would be no more talks about coronavirus relief until after the election… Okay.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. Two possibilities:
    1. They’ve made up their minds that they can steal the election no matter what; or
    2. Like a certain fellow who could at least grow a moustache in 1945, they’ve made up their minds that they’ve lost and all they can do is make the America who renounced them share their Gotterdammerung.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. They seem to have decided that the way to win the election is to persuade Americans that democrats are reactive fraidy-cats who are overreacting to a minor illness, and so they’re going to double, triple, and quadruple down on that framing and presentation.

    If it weren’t so damaging to the country it would be hilarious, because they’ve *lost this argument with the public* by a pretty large margin, they just aren’t able to recognize it.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  4. This makes DRJ seem prescient. Mike Pence gets protection from everyone else’s spittle, but he doesn’t think it’s necessary (to Mike Pence) that others be protected. Even though this whole administration is so sick you’d think they shared a slurpee.

    Maybe Harris should just ask Pence if Trump was sick at the Biden debate, and if he wanted Biden to get sick, and if Pence is sick now, and if he wants to get her sick.

    To be honest, she should have just refused to go. Pence is definitely the better debater. Maybe at this stage it looks good for her to go, but this was a good excuse to keep the narrative on Trump’s historically ‘worst ever’ debate.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  5. It is telling that Team Trump is somehow allowing Gov. Cuomo to avoid any publicity and guilt for his order that sent 20k+ New Yorkers to their deaths from COVID.

    For a guy who was supposedly media savvy, he is allowing Democrats to put the yoke of COVID around his shoulders.

    Hoi Polloi (acf0e3)

  6. I think we’ve all felt this way, Dustin, and said as much. We’ve all seen them in action. This is just a continuation of the malevolent spirt of the Trump administration. It really is unconscionable.

    Dana (292df6)

  7. “Team Pence Unwilling To Take Reasonable Safety Measures At Debate”

    It’s a tell.

    Race Bannon is a cartoon. And nothing, not even Covid-19, can kill a ‘Toon except–

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IksQfsy0-oM

    THE DIP!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. I’m going with #2, nk.

    Dana (292df6)

  9. > he is allowing Democrats to put the yoke of COVID around his shoulders.

    his actions and words have earned him that.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  10. As most of y’all know, I am occasionally very stupid. And at some point this year, I remember walking into an HEB, making eye contact with an old woman in the produce section, seeing her look resigned, and realizing I didn’t bring my mask. I ripped a mask out of a package right on the endcap, like any normal man would do in that situation.

    Trump and Pence would have you believe this was theatrical. Some weird mix of vanity, submission, and fear. And I think to Trump, wearing a mask does feel that way. He flinches every time his Tee Vee shows that mask, and how severely the country is changed on his watch. People, Americans, they are not who they were when I was a boy, and Donnie played a role. In our hearts, we can feel this nation’s desire to be what it was.

    Instead, it has a choice between Pence, the freak, and Harris, the greedy.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  11. Dustin — I had an experience a few weeks ago going to the grocery store where i gloved up, grabbed a cart from outside, wiped it with wipes … and then realized i’d forgotten to put my mask on.

    i went back to the car and got a mask.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  12. Trump killed any Corona relief efforts in a tweet earlier today. An hour ago he tweeted that we need more Corona relief.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  13. She will lie like a rug, but you dont care, the moderator was last slandering bush sr when he couldnt defend himself.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  14. You know this isn’t Pence’s doing, it’s He Who Must Be Obeyed calling the shots. Pence agreed to be Trump’s VP, and there are consequences.

    https://youtu.be/3D8TEJtQRhw

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. Trump killed any Corona relief efforts in a tweet earlier today. An hour ago he tweeted that we need more Corona relief.

    An argument can be made that what the Democrats wanted was mostly swag for their clients.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Dustin — I had an experience a few weeks ago going to the grocery store where i gloved up, grabbed a cart from outside, wiped it with wipes … and then realized i’d forgotten to put my mask on.

    Stores around here, the bouncer at the door would have said something earlier.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. An argument can be made that what the Democrats wanted was mostly swag for their clients.

    Sure, but what changed with Trump in the last 12 hours, other than he got really bad “reviews” for his first tweet, so he’s retconned it?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  18. I got into the absolute middle of a Home Depot maskless 2 Sundays ago. 3 sundays ago I paid inside at a gas station maskless, but I think b/c a blonde lady was also maskless, the proprietor (Indian) didnt want to risk that version of Karen. Luckily a disposable is free aat the HD…that’s been a racket at a $1 each at some local mercados (eff that bodega ish, that’s for east coast PRs).

    Trump I would have sincerely, mourned but the Millers…

    urbanleftbehind (09114d)

  19. I don’t know Mrs. Miller, but Stephen is a “it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy” (that’s sarcasm) kind of guy.

    nk (1d9030)

  20. I think that Trump handled the whole Covid thing badly from the start. He did the absolute minimum at every step. His vast resort empire must have looked like it was on fire circa Jan 30th, and I can understand the (foolish) impulse to try to hope it goes away.

    The NSC and CDC told Trump on Jan 27th or 28th to flat out ban all travel from China, and he issued a very porous order after stalling several days. They knew then that this was going to be at least as bad as 1918. But Trump wanted different answers.

    But. I do not want to lose sight of the Chinese and their very cynical decision to let it out into the world so that their economy did not get trashed alone. The Chinese lied, did all they could to minimize internal damage while shutting down all reporting of it, then lied some more. Once we are rid of Trump, Biden’s first task has to be to shut down trade from Chin a — all of it — until they agree to trillions in reparations to the rest of the world.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. so he’s retconned it?

    He’s done this his entire life. Do you remember those interview segments in 2016 where they showed him FILM of what he said yesterday and he just denied he said it and blathered on? And before, in private life, how many subordinates do you think would challenge him on this?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. Cruz should have withdrawn in March and endorsed Kasich, along with everyone else. Then pressured him right like the Dems are going to do to (“Romney will put you in chains”) Biden after he pretends to be a centrist in the general.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. Ah geez.

    Weird Al has made a parody video of the Biden/Trump debate. Title: “We’re All Doomed.”

    https://youtu.be/un9x-DjTMT0

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  24. Kevin M, i wasn’t at the door yet.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  25. Cruz missed his calling as a movie ingenue (that’s how they say “Bond girl” in French), I think. The tough talk, the maidenly reticence, the melting into Trump’s arms.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Kevin, at 14: whether the order came from Trump or not, Pence is going along.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  27. @25. French Canadian.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. On the other hand, Team Pence is clearly unwilling to go the extra mile to keep everyone as safe as possible, and that is not a good look in the least

    So Dana, are you keeping your mask on between bites? Or, are you unwilling to go the extra mile to keep everyone safe?

    beer ‘n pretzels (5c7509)

  29. Yep, Biden and Harris need to show up. Seems like the medical evidence for a plexiglass shield are all the folks testing positive, that he know about.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  30. Eh, that we know about, not “he”.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  31. Putin seriously needs to recruit a better quality of internet trolls.

    nk (1d9030)

  32. This is all theatre. I don’t think for a second that the plexiglass is actually all that important. However, it’s important theatre. The trump campaign has to signify to the base his bona fides – the plexiglass would be a visible admission that maybe they weren’t taken Covid as seriously as they should have.

    tla (34ebeb)

  33. Kevin, at 14: whether the order came from Trump or not, Pence is going along.

    A lesser idiocy. It would be an interesting time to resign, assuming he wants to retire. They should have enough folks for a Former Trump Official Retirement Home.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. I wonder if part of the Trump team calculation is that Pelosi will decline to step down as Speaker in order to take on the job of acting President letting it devolve to Chuck Grassley.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. Speaking of people unwilling to go that extra mile: SF gay bathhouse restrictions lifted

    https://www.ebar.com/news/latest_news//295175

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. I wonder if part of the Trump team calculation is that Pelosi will decline to step down as Speaker in order to take on the job of acting President letting it devolve to Chuck Grassley.

    It is crazy that it goes to the legislature. It may even be unconstitutional. We should go back to having the Secretary of State as Acting President.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  37. Office of the Governor of California
    @CAgovernor

    Going out to eat with members of your household this weekend? Don’t forget to keep your mask on in between bites.
    __

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  38. On the other hand, Team Pence is clearly unwilling to go the extra mile to keep everyone as safe as possible, and that is not a good look in the least

    So Dana, are you keeping your mask on between bites? Or, are you unwilling to go the extra mile to keep everyone safe?

    beer ‘n pretzels (5c7509) — 10/6/2020 @ 5:41 pm

    I am, beer ‘n pretzels. I haven’t gone out to eat since March. I occasionally order takeout and pick up from local eateries to help support locally owned businesses. I don’t feel like the risk is worth going out to eat.

    Dana (292df6)

  39. You know this isn’t Pence’s doing, it’s He Who Must Be Obeyed calling the shots. Pence agreed to be Trump’s VP, and there are consequences.

    He could resign at any time. He could resign at any time because he refuses to compromise his integrity and reputation for a dishonest conman. He could resign at any time because he doesn’t want his Christian witness compromised before the world. He could resign at any time because he knows in his heart that it would be the right thing to do. Unfortunately, that time has passed and he is more than willing to to debase himself in any way demanded of him. Even if it means putting someone else at risk of infection. If his integrity were still intact, he would refuse to do Trump’s bidding, and let the chips fall where they may. Yes, agreeing to be Trump’s VP comes with consequences. So too does sacrificing one’s honor.

    Dana (292df6)

  40. Team Pence just announced that due to bad reviews, they will accept the plexiglass shields.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  41. Dana (292df6) — 10/6/2020 @ 6:28 pm

    Spot on, Dana.

    This really explodes the “Pence is a reasonable guy” myth.

    You don’t cheerlead for a degenerate sociopath for four years without becoming one yourself.

    Everyone with any integrity in this administration quickly runs afoul of Trump and is shown to the door.

    That Pence is still around after four years is proof of his complete immorality.

    Dave (1bb933)

  42. He could resign at any time.

    I think that some of the people who still work for Trump in Trump’s administration tell themselves that they are serving America, not Trump. Someone has to be Vice President or Secretary of State, and Trump could always find someone who would do more damage.

    I wonder why Pence accepted, or why a man with Pompeo’s credentials (1st in class at West Point and Harvard Law) is serving Trump. Maybe he’s told Trump he can’t afford to lose more people and let him work. Maybe. I wonder though, what they tell themselves. Nobody is the bad guy in their own mind.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Team Pence just announced that due to bad reviews, they will accept the plexiglass shields.

    And everyone knew they would, so why did they do it? What utter fool had to be convinced?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. I told someone I’d take Biden winning Utah if they gave me 3-1 odds. Now I think it should be 3-2. It is almost like Trump is attempting to throw the election. Do you think he made a deal to throw it if he wouldn’t be prosecuted?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. Two possibilities:
    1. They’ve made up their minds that they can steal the election no matter what; or
    2. Like a certain fellow who could at least grow a moustache in 1945, they’ve made up their minds that they’ve lost and all they can do is make the America who renounced them share their Gotterdammerung.
    nk (1d9030) — 10/6/2020 @ 4:35 pm

    3. Over 65s have turned against Trump bigly. Killing as many as possible is a win/win (electorally and vendetta).

    No, I’m not serious. Or am I?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  46. I don’t feel like the risk is worth going out to eat.

    I’m assuming then you don’t have young kids. My wife also doesn’t have the luxury of working from home. I would love to insulate myself as you do, but it’s not possible.

    The mask between bites directive is ridiculous, and none of us will be doing that. Let me know if you think that’s refusing to go the extra mile to keep everyone safe. I think it’s nonsense motivated by political theater. Not all directives are valid.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5c7509)

  47. I’ll give you those odds, Kevin. LOL.

    It would be the happiest bet I ever lost…

    You are right though. As Allahpundit has observed, for this entire year, Trump has been staking claims to the 40 side of one 60-40 issue after another.

    Biden’s lead is up 8 now in the fivethirtyeight national average, and a new CNN poll found only 1% of likely voters have no preference, and only 9% are even open to the possibility of changing their vote (10% of Trump supporters and 8% of Biden’s).

    In fivethirtyeight’s model, Biden has a better chance of winning Texas than Trump does of winning Wisconsin…

    Short of a war starting, a 9/11 style event, Biden dying, or a virtuoso performance by the FSB, it’s hard to see how they turn this around.

    I think as Election Day gets closer, Trump’s behavior will get even more erratic and unhinged.

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. I don’t feel like the risk is worth going out to eat.

    I last ate in restaurant in early March before California locked down, and last went shopping in May, I think.

    Just had a grocery delivery today. Quite affordable, even with a 15% tip.

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. 3. Over 65s have turned against Trump bigly. Killing as many as possible is a win/win (electorally and vendetta).

    No, I’m not serious. Or am I?

    It certainly seems to be what Ron DeSantis is trying to do in Florida.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. All right, I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea, but I say God bless the Lincoln Project.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  51. > I haven’t gone out to eat since March.

    likewise. I won’t even do outdoor dining. Maybe next summer.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  52. Dave, i’m terrified of Trump’s behavior after he loses but before Biden is sworn in.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  53. I just saw Kayleigh McEnany say “most of us are doing just fine”, and it reminds me of mainstream media saying a while back that the protests are mostly peaceful.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  54. The sum total of my dining out/carry out/delivery since March has been three cups of coffee. The third one today. But even before the Covid, I only went to restaurants where knew the people. For sure, I will never to go to a McDonald’s again, Covid or no Covid.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. This is the mentality Team Trump is pandering to with its idiotic take on plexiglass dividers:

    “Might as well carry a purse with that mask, Joe.” – Tomi Lahren

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  56. , his doctors say that because he was not in close contact with any individuals who later became infected, he doesn’t need to quarantine

    Nobody needs to quarantine after 11 days with o symptoms and no positive test. This 14 day period is wrong.

    So is limiting the distance to stay apart to six feet, but the CDC doesn’t like the consequences of making it longer than six feet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/health/cdc-coronavirus-airborne-indoor-air.html

    Notably, the C.D.C.’s new guidance softens a previous statement referring to the coronavirus as “an airborne virus,” a term that may have required hospitals to treat infected patients in specialized rooms and health care workers to wear N95 masks anywhere in a hospital.

    The new advice instead says the virus can “sometimes be spread by airborne transmission” and can be spread by both larger droplets and smaller aerosols released when people “cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe.”

    But while the virus can be airborne under some circumstances, it is not the primary way the virus spreads, the C.D.C. said.

    “I’m a little concerned that they still distinguish between close contact and airborne transmission, implying that airborne transmission only matters beyond six feet,” said Linsey Marr, an expert in airborne transmission of viruses at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va. “Airborne transmission also occurs at close contact and is probably more important than the spray of large droplets.”

    What the Centers for Disease Control and the Food and Drug Administration – and the World Health Organization – say isn’t entitled to any respect, or not much more than what President Trump says.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  57. For sure, I will never to go to a McDonald’s again, Covid or no Covid.

    It takes a special kind of sauce for those fries to keep Donald’s hair (such as it is) planted.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  58. Tramps for Trump?

    nk (1d9030)


  59. Speaking of people unwilling to go that extra mile: SF gay bathhouse restrictions lifted


    Cue the Michael Savage freakout.

    urbanleftbehind (09114d)

  60. Kevin @20. What China wanted was, I think, not to have the rest of the world suffer, but not to get isolated or quarantined. Xi was slow to quarantine even Wuhan and Hubei province because he was afraid it might cause other countries to cut off travel from China. But once he did it, he couldn’t prevent travel restrictions on China from being imposed for more than a week.

    Now he;s vaccinating Chinese who might travel abroad.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  61. There’s no way it goes to Pelosi or anyone in Congress unless the presidential election is inconclusive. It’s got to be inconclusive at the Electoral College level (i.e. we don’t agree on what the Electoral vote was, not that no candidate gets 270) because it is easy for the Senate to pick a vice president, much easier than for the House to pick a president.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  62. If Trump and Pence are both incapacitated, somebody has to President until January 20, Sammy, no matter the results of the election. The line of succession is Pelosi, Grassley, Pompeo, and so on.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. Project verities got caught trying to pay people to say they were working for ilhan omar campaign and their job was paying voters to vote for ilhan omar on project veritas cameras. Liban osman told fox 9 news he was offered $10,000 dollars by paid agent omar jamal working for project veritas to say he was paying voters to vote for ilhan omar.

    asset (429717)

  64. @55 –

    This is the mentality Team Trump is pandering to with its idiotic take on plexiglass dividers:
    “Might as well carry a purse with that mask, Joe.” – Tomi Lahren

    I thought of that tweet when Dustin and urbanleftbehind recounted the trauma of finding themselves maskless in a store. If y’all had the practical sense to carry a purse, you could have a couple of fresh masks stashed away in it.

    And as someone else tweeted in response: what kind of woman thinks it’s a brutal putdown to a man to imply that he’s being a bit womanly? (The kind whose parents thought “Tomi” would be a good girl’s name, I guess.)

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  65. @47

    I think as Election Day gets closer, Trump’s behavior will get even more erratic and unhinged.

    Oh, that’s just “personality.” A serious person only cares about “policy.”

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  66. @50:

    All right, I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea, but I say God bless the Lincoln Project.

    I’m impressed by the vocal talent they got for that ad.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  67. (The kind whose parents thought “Tomi” would be a good girl’s name, I guess.)

    That’s a pretty good one.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  68. 66.

    I’m impressed by the vocal talent they got for that ad.

    Right?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  69. I’m assuming then you don’t have young kids. My wife also doesn’t have the luxury of working from home. I would love to insulate myself as you do, but it’s not possible.

    Passive aggressive much?

    The mask between bites directive is ridiculous, and none of us will be doing that. Let me know if you think that’s refusing to go the extra mile to keep everyone safe. I think it’s nonsense motivated by political theater. Not all directives are valid.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5c7509) — 10/6/2020 @ 7:05 pm

    As I said, I don’t go out to eat, so it doesn’t impact me.

    Dana (292df6)

  70. @60: That was what Chinese were privately telling our Deputy National Security Advisor, a man who has spent most of a decade in China, had lots of contacts there and spoke perfect Mandarin.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. If Trump and Pence are both incapacitated, somebody has to President until January 20, Sammy, no matter the results of the election. The line of succession is Pelosi, Grassley, Pompeo, and so on.

    Considering the short term involved and the caretaker nature of the job, I think Pelosi would decline, and probably Grassley, too. All they have to do is refuse to resign their legislative position and it goes to the next guy in line.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. Stephen Miller is such a sycophant that I wouldn’t be surprised if he asked Trump to cough on him. It could be Trump’s new loyalty test.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  73. Apart from Trump himself, Stephen Miller is most vile of the vile in this administration.

    He’s been on the Orange Team longer than anybody who’s not family, and his toxic ideas most closely reflect what Trump’s thinking would be if he were capable of higher brain function.

    As with Pence, the fact that Miller is on Trump’s good side after more than four years shows he is utterly unscrupulous.

    Dave (1bb933)

  74. On the 60-40 issues point;

    I remember that someone hypothesised a year or two back that Trump might be staking our ground to starting a ‘more Fox than Fox’ right wing news network.

    If he were planning to do that, and even those of us who despise him recognise his media savvy and exceptional talent for showmanship, then staking the 40 side on every 60-40 issue could be a perfect strategy to build a huge and energised built-in audience that gives him power of the only sort he really wants so he can swing future elections without the trouble of actually governing.

    Bob (cc56ee)

  75. Is question I have, comrades. Why is no one mention that Pence is the head of the White House Task Force?

    nk (1d9030)

  76. Bill Melugin
    @BillFOXLA

    THREAD: Today, California’s new #COVID19 “health equity” metric takes effect, mandating that counties must demonstrate that they are “eliminating disparities in levels of transmission” amongst minority & poor communities, or they will not be allowed to reopen any further.

    https://twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status/1313539328048459776?s=20
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  77. nk, you forgot the word “titular” when describing Pence as head of the CV19 task force, and any excuse to use “tit” in a sentence is always a plus.
    Ms. McEnany should be worried about her job down the stretch because Hugh Hewitt’s pom poms are primed for waving.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  78. As I said, I don’t go out to eat, so it doesn’t impact me.

    You don’t do vice presidential debates either.

    beer ‘n pretzels (8854a1)

  79. Tits on a bull?

    nk (1d9030)

  80. Pence is more steer than bull.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  81. He probably wanted to hire the chick from that TV show with all the nerds, though omparative bust-downs are more Jr.’s speed.

    urbanleftbehind (ade68e)

  82. comparative (as in older)

    urbanleftbehind (ade68e)

  83. nk’s probably got a clue as to Harris’s strategy. Pence is in charge of the COVID response. The White House is consistently dumb about COVID, even with a stupid piece of plastic at the debates. Harris shoulda let Pence come in without the protection and then mocked him all night for getting the whole administration sick.

    Regardless, Pence is really good at this stuff, and as far as I can tell, Harris isn’t, so I’m expecting a frustrating night for the nevertrumpers.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  84. You’re right, Dustin. Harris can lay the lousy CV19 response around Pence’s neck because Pence can’t blame-shift this onto Trump (or even Herd Immunity Atlas), even though Trump is the most responsible for this political dumpster fire.
    However, I saw how easily Pence ran circles around Kaine and how he frustrated the hell out of the guy. Harris has a big challenge ahead of her. I’m going to stick with my practice of not making predictions.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  85. Hoi Polloi @5-
    If the yoke fits……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  86. You know in 1918 there were a lot of international travel restrictions, due to the world war, but that didn’t stop the virus from spreading all over the world. It was in the Allied countries and it was in Germany.

    And nobody in 2020 put on any travel restrictions until they noticed it had spread int the country in question, at least a little. Some countries virtually or entirely eliminated it after that with lockdowns and testing, but if you go back completely to normal, even just in one country, the virus comes roaring back. and quarantines against the rest of the world tend to have leaks. Both Australia and New Zealand got little outbreaks.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  87. One thing Pence has that Trump lacks is work ethic. You can do a lot with work ethic.

    From the moment Harris was picked, Pence has been putting hours into this debate prep. He knows more about Harris than Harris knows. He has seen what tripped her up and probably focus grouped conservative versions of Tulsi’s little surprise (though Harris will be ready for that).

    Trump’s goof up at his debate is 99% laziness. He just wasn’t prepared to respond to anything so he just made a hail mary to get Biden to explode. But when Biden told him to Shut Up, something that would have shocked us 20 or 30 years ago, we actually nodded our heads as a nation, that Trump really should shut up.

    Since Harris will be the leader of her party, and Pence isn’t taken that seriously, all the risk is really on Team D as well.

    Also, Trump’s the underdog, and his team has been losing big time, so the press will want to horserace this by giving him the ‘upset’ win. I know this sounds stupid, but it’s how Trump won in the first place, the press trying to keep things entertaining instead of just keeping us informed.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  88. And sometimes what Trump did or wants is right, and they are wrong – as wrong as World War I generals.

    Trump is pushing for quicker use of a vaccine while the FDA wants at least five people who took a placebo to get seriously ill – mildly ill will not do – before approving a vaccine.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/us/politics/fda-vaccine-coronavirus-white-house.html

    The Food and Drug Administration released guidelines yesterday that make it nearly inconceivable for a coronavirus vaccine to hit the market before Election Day. The move came one day after The Times reported that White House officials had been trying to soften the F.D.A.’s language to clear the path for an 11th-hour vaccine.

    The White House’s Office of Management and Budget approved the new guidelines after two weeks in which administration officials, including Mark Meadows, President Trump’s chief of staff, had sought to hold them up.

    Four vaccines in the United States are in the final stage of testing, but the agency’s new regulations advise vaccine makers to follow test patients for a median of two months after the final dose. They also ask vaccine makers to document five cases of severe infection in people who received the placebo instead of the vaccine.

    Quite aside from this trolley dllemma the FDA has created where five people have to nearly die before anybody can get a vaccine for sure, while they’re waiting for that to happen, hundreds may die in the meantime. If they contain the virus through lockdown methods, nobody who got the placebo vaccine is going to get sick.

    Now, if that’s the way they feel, why not deliberately expose people to the virus and see if they get sick. You could be ready with antibodies. They’d have pretty good chances. But that is unethical. this demand for five severely ill people in an unplanned way is supposed to be ethical??

    And they justify this by saying people have to believe in a vaccine.

    Well, whether people believe in a vaccine or not will depend on what the politicians and pundits they like say, not on what hoops any of the vaccine makers went through.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  89. Another place where what Donald Trump said was more right than they were:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-takes-zinc-maybe-you-should-too-11601916665

    President Trump is getting state-of-the-art care for his coronavirus infection, including the antiviral drug remdesivir and a monoclonal-antibody cocktail. Most Americans have limited access to these therapies. The antibody treatment hasn’t been approved by the Food and Drug Administration even for emergency use, so it’s available only to patients in clinical trials or on a case by case basis for compassionate use if approved by the FDA and drug manufacturer Regeneron. [Like the president of the United State -SF] Remdesivir must be administered in a hospital, and patients often aren’t admitted until days after they develop severe symptoms.

    But Mr. Trump is receiving one treatment you can buy without a prescription at your local drugstore: zinc. [If that is, they have it in stock. – SF]

    Last month, researchers from Spain reported that patients who died in hospitals in March and April on average had zinc blood levels of 43 micrograms per deciliter; survivors had 63. A level of 70 is considered normal. [It could be argued the zinc was used up, and maybe we’ve got cause and effect reversed. But probably not] After adjusting for age, sex, illness severity and treatments, every unit increase of zinc in the blood was associated with a 7% lower likelihood of dying. That’s huge.

    …. ” the National Institutes of Health explains in a fact sheet for health professionals. “Even mild to moderate degrees of zinc deficiency can impair macrophage and neutrophil functions, natural killer cell activity, and complement activity. The body requires zinc to develop and activate T-lymphocytes.”…

    ….l clinical trial tracked nursing-home patients in Massachusetts from 1998 to 2001 who received a multivitamin supplement that included 50% of the recommended intake of zinc. Patients with normal levels of zinc at the start of the trial were 40% less likely to die from any cause. But the incidence of pneumonia was 50% lower during the trial in patients who had normal zinc levels at the study’s end. “Severe zinc deficiency can impair immunity and increase susceptibility to infectious diseases, a major cause of mortality in the elderly,” the study noted.

    [And now we come to the supposed classic example of where Trump was wrong]

    A recent article in the Journal of Medical Virology hypothesizes that zinc may also have an antiviral effect against Covid-19 because zinc may inhibit other RNA viruses, including coronaviruses. In a 2010 study, zinc coupled with an ionophore (a chemical that transports an ion across a cell membrane) was found to inhibit the replication of SARS.

    Some Covid-19 studies have also shown promising results from pairing zinc with the antimalaria drug hydroxychloriquine (HCQ), another ionophore. A study of hospitalized patients in New York found that those treated with zinc on top of HCQ and the antibiotic azithromycin were about half as likely to die or be transferred to a hospice than those who didn’t receive zinc.

    It is possible that the disparate results from studies evaluating HCQ as a Covid-19 treatment may be explained in part by zinc:

    People with inadequate zinc levels may simply not derive an antiviral benefit from the malaria drug. Those who have high-functioning immune systems may be able to defeat the virus without the help of drugs.

    Butthen there’s the question of: How much does the HCQ add to the zinc?

    I read months ago that HCQ may increase the absorption of zinc by cells, by turning the blood more acidic But HCQ may do nothing without zinc, either previously present or given together with it.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  90. Well, whether people believe in a vaccine or not will depend on what the politicians and pundits they like say, not on what hoops any of the vaccine makers went through.

    It also depends on what we know about vaccines from our experience. I know that all the vaccines I’ve taken did me no harm, so I was happy to get my babies vaccinated, and they are thriving and happy.

    But the last time the president pushed a vaccine out the door quickly, it didn’t go well. And that is why many people are afraid of vaccines.

    If the administration bends the rules, and of course they will because they always do, and people get harmed, any good vaccines will also fail. Old good vaccines will be less effective as the real version of herd immunity is thwarted by fear.

    while they’re waiting for that to happen, hundreds may die in the meantime.

    The consequences are pretty dire if a bad vaccine is used. All this stuff is politicized beyond belief as it is.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  91. 86. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/7/2020 @ 8:50 am

    Trump’s goof up at his debate is 99% laziness.

    Trump is constitutionally (is that the right word?) incapable of rehearsing.

    His people tried to get around it by popping him with questions during trips, and by having him do some actual interview.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  92. 89. What vaccine did Trump push out quickly? It was President Gerald ford who did that – in 1976 – for a disease “swine flu” that had become extinct very quickly. The fire had been completely put out. But the goveernment disease experts thought the flu was hiding somewhere.

    Anyway that doesn’t change my point – whether the vaccine is accepted by a majority of the american public will depend on what the pundits say – and actually I don’t think all those hoops will help even among Democrats. It may depend more on who is president. And the entire public won’t tend to accept it unless it gets a bipartisan endorsement, that doesn’t appear in any way to be forced on any endorser.

    Now if Democrats are not going to endorse a vaccine, then they could have a point, except that no hoops will help get Nancy Pelosi to endorse it.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  93. nk @74. It hadn’t been mentioned here that Pence is head of the coronavirus task force because this debate wasn’t discussed in enough detail – and because nobody knows what Pence has done, beyond making telephone calls to Governors, and trying to arrange for delivery of supplies.. Nobody considers him responsible for any of the policy positions on Covid.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  94. Dustin:

    But when Biden told him to Shut Up, something that would have shocked us 20 or 30 years ago, we actually nodded our heads as a nation, that Trump really should shut up.

    Trump thought so too. He did shut up. He’d made his point. But he could have made it in a way that attracted more attention.

    Not l transcripts got it all.

    This missed the statement about Biden losing the left

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/09/30/presidential-debate-read-full-transcript-first-debate/3587462001

    This one has it:

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-joe-biden-1st-presiden
    tial-debate-transcript-2020

    Chris Wallace: (17:13)

    All right, I have one final question for you.

    [He almost didn’t ask it – SF]

    Vice President Joe Biden: (17:15)

    Sure.

    Chris Wallace: (17:16)

    Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans, we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here, if Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett there has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the President. But, in fact, it wasn’t brought up by the President. It was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the American tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court?

    Vice President Joe Biden: (17:55)

    Whatever position I take on that, that’ll become the issue. The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You’re voting now. Vote and let your Senators know strongly how you feel.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:05)

    Are you going to pack the court?

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:07)

    Vote now.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:08)

    Are you going to pack the court?

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:09)

    Make sure you, in fact, let people know, your Senators.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:12)

    He doesn’t want to answer the question.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:17)

    I’m not going to answer the question.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:18)

    Why wouldn’t you answer that question? You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court Justices. Radical left.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:18)

    Will you shut up, man?

    [[Biden says that when Trump has a telling point]

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:20)

    Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who’s on your list?

    Chris Wallace: (18:23)

    Gentlemen, I think we’ve ended this-

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:25)

    This is so un-Presidential.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:25)

    He’s going to pack the court. He is not going to give a list.

    Chris Wallace: (18:27)

    We have ended the segment. We’re going to move on to the second segment.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:30)

    That was really a productive segment, wasn’t it? Keep yapping, man.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:35)

    The people understand, Joe.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (18:37)

    They sure do.

    President Donald J. Trump: (18:37)

    47 years, you’ve done nothing. They’re understand.

    [This talking point about 47 years does not belong here. The last two words are probably wrong. USA TODAY has “then just”- SF]

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  95. Pence is in charge of the COVID response.

    The problem isn’t the COVID response — the CDC, FDA, etc, are working fine on that (now). Much of the actual response is at the state level anyway.

    The PROBLEM is the guy with the Twitter account (Twit?) who thinks that viri are something he can control by being rich and powerful.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. Biden may have been losing the Left, but Trump brought them back. What Biden could have pointed out, but didn’t, was that Trump had just lost the middle and therefore the election.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. The problem isn’t the COVID response — the CDC, FDA, etc, are working fine on that (now). Much of the actual response is at the state level anyway.

    The PROBLEM is the guy with the Twitter account (Twit?) who thinks that viri are something he can control by being rich and powerful.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/7/2020 @ 10:32 am

    Good point, Kevin. But I bet Harris can build enthusiasm by getting Pence to explain that everything is going well, even if it actually is going well. Would have been funnier if he had come in there without the plastic shield. The more I think about it, the more I think Harris should have let him do that, maybe thrown some little toy viruses at his head during his closing speech.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  98. About the coronavirus (USA TODAY transcript)

    WALLACE

    Alright. The second subject is a covid-19, which is an awfully serious subject, so let’s try to be — A million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back toward anything approaching normal.

    My question for both of you is based on what you have said and done so far and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward. In this case, the question goes to you first.

    Sir, two minutes uninterrupted.

    17:54 BIDEN

    Look, 200,000 dead. You said over 7 million infected in the United States. We in fact have 5% or 4% of the world’s population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people a day are contracting COVID. In addition to that, about between 750 and 1000 people, they’re dying.

    When he was presented with that number he said ‘it is what it is’ — what it is what it is — because you are who you are. That’s why it is.

    The president has no plan. He hasn’t laid out anything. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. [could be would be more accrurate -SF]

    He knew it was a deadly disease. What did he do? He’s on tape as acknowledging he knew.

    He said he didn’t tell us or give people a warning of it,

    [A warning that it would spread within the United States.]

    because he didn’t want to panic the American people. You don’t panic, he panicked. In addition to that, what did he do? He went in and he, we were insisting that the Chinese, the people we had on the ground in China should be able to go to watch, and determine for themselves, how dangerous this was. He did not even ask Xi to do that. [Because nobody trusted Xi. What’s this argument? Is he saying that if Xi did such a good job, why did the CDC want to send in its own people? You could say well, they’re more skilled or experienced or have different questios\

    He told us what a great job Xi was doing. He said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us.

    What did he do then? He then he waited and waited and waited. He still doesn’t have a plan. I laid out or I could just watch, exactly what we should be doing. And I laid out again in July, what we should be doing. We should be providing all the protective gear plus,

    [And where was this supposed to come from? Stockpiles? Who depleted them?]

    we should be providing the money the House has passed in order to be able to go out and get people to help they need to keep their businesses, open, open schools. That cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap, get people the help they need to keep their businesses, open, open schools that cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the car, and in your golf course the golf course and going oval office

    [something’s garbled here]

    19:54 TRUMP

    The country would have been left wide open, Millions of people would have died, not 200,000. And one person is too much — it’s China’s fault, it should have never happened. They stopped it from going in, but it was China’s fault.

    By the way when you talk about numbers you know how many people died in China [USA TODAY has Japan but I heard China. I better switch to the other transcript]

    You don’t know how many people died in Russia. You don’t know how many people died in India. They don’t exactly give you a straight count, just so you understand.

    But if you look at what we’ve done, I closed it and you said, “He’s xenophobic. He’s a racist and he’s xenophobic,” because you didn’t think I should have closed our country. Wait a minute.

    Chris Wallace: (22:06)

    Sir, it’s his two minutes.

    President Donald J. Trump: (22:07)

    You didn’t think we should have closed our country because you thought it was terrible. You wouldn’t have closed it for another two months. By my doing it early, in fact, Dr. Fauci said, “President Trump saved thousands of lives.” Many of your Democrat Governors said, “President Trump did a phenomenal job.” We worked with the Governor. Oh really, go take a look. The Governors said I did a phenomenal job. Most of them said that. In fact, people that would not be necessarily on my side said that, “President Trump did a phenomenal job.” We did. We got the gowns. We got the masks. We made the ventilators. You wouldn’t have made ventilators. [Except ventilators were a big mistake, and killed people -SF]

    And now we’re weeks away from a vaccine. We’re doing therapeutics already. Fewer people are dying when they get sick. Far fewer people are dying. We’ve done a great job.

    President Donald J. Trump: (22:54)

    The only thing I haven’t done a good job, [is on PR] and that’s because of the fake news, no matter what you say to them, they give you a bad press on it. It’s just fake news. They give you good press, they give me bad press because that’s the way it is, unfortunately. But let me just say
    something. I don’t care. I’ve gotten used to it. But I’ll tell you, Joe, you could never have done the job that we did. You don’t have it in your blood. You could’ve never done that, Joe.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (23:15)

    I know how to do the job. I know how to get the job done.

    President Donald J. Trump: (23:18)

    Well, you didn’t do very well in Swine Flu. H1-N1, you were a disaster. {Trump is making Biden responsible for Obsma’s decisions]

    Your own Chief of Staff said you were a disaster.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (23:25)

    14,000 people died, not 200,000.

    President Donald J. Trump: (23:27)

    A far less lethal disease, by the way.

    Chris Wallace: (23:32)

    Sir, you made a point. Let him answer it.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (23:33)

    And there was no one … We didn’t shut down the economy. This is his economy he shut down.

    [So what should Trump have done instead?]

    The reason it’s shut down is because…Look, you folks at home. How many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? [What s Biden doing here? He talks like it is a huge percentage but it is less than 1 in 1,000 Americans and many of them were in nursing homes] or if you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn’t
    even speak to them, you had a nurse holding a phone up so you could in fact say goodbye?

    {So, Biden is for modifying what the experts say to do?

    President Donald J. Trump: (23:57)

    We would have lost far more people, far more people. You would have been months late. You’re months behind me, Joe.

    Vice President Joe Biden: (24:03)

    His own CDC Director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year. And he said, [the CDC Director] if we just wear a mask, we can save half those numbers. Just a mask. And by the way, in terms of the whole notion of a vaccine, we’re for a vaccine, but I don’t trust him at all. Nor do you. I know you don’t. What we trust is a scientist.

    President Donald J. Trump: (24:25)

    You don’t trust Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer? [The CEOS Trump has been talking to]

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  99. Maybe Kevin’s right and this won’t even be close. Trump’s made clear for months he will abuse his office to win, and if he’s lawless, that is unbeatable.

    It might be that many jurisdictions announce that Trump won 95% on election day. Maybe Bagdad Bob has a nephew to announce it.

    Even if it’s clear he loses, he will refuse to work with Biden and fight this in courts, perhaps for years, happily hurting the nation and its security. Perhaps there’s a war planned in December.

    Lame Duck Trump will make Covid Screamer Trump look like George Washington.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  100. Lost the left is in both transcripts but at another point – where they are discussing health insurance.

    Trump says Biden agreed with a manifesto with Bernie Sanders agreed to and Biden says he is not in agreement with Bernie Sanders..

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  101. Lame Duck Trump will make Covid Screamer Trump look like George Washington.

    Impeachment (hopefully with disqualification for future office) during the lame duck session is a possibility.

    20 GOP senators out of 53 isn’t an impossible ask, especially since Trump will have just prematurely ended the careers of a number of them.

    If it’s clear to reasonable people that he lost, some Republicans who hope to be re-elected in the future may rediscover their backbones.

    Dave (1bb933)

  102. 99. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/7/2020 @ 10:44 am

    It might be that many jurisdictions announce that Trump won 95% on election day.

    That’s not going to happen.

    Whats’s going to happen is that the networks are not going to able to call a lot of states, maybe not even New York and California, because of all the absentee ballots outstanding. Even though they know they should tilt more to Biden than the election day and early vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  103. What Trump may do, or think of doing, is to have all mail ballots in some states thrown out because of irregularities, and if he can’t do that, have some states Biden carried not certify electors in time.

    Nobody is going to help him do anything like that.

    But he’s hoping it is at least close so maybe something will work.

    all that any such tactics may do is postpone the day he may have to concede. And postpone the day he becomes an acknowledged lame duck.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)


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