Patterico's Pontifications

10/1/2020

Trump Makes It Official: “I Won The Debate”

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:17 am



[guest post by Dana]

This morning Trump made it official (in his own eyes):

Of course, he didn’t provide any post-debate polling data that validated the claim. No matter, he said it, so let it be so. That’s how it works in Trump’s world. This in spite of polls indicating otherwise.

This declaration isn’t surprising given that he tweeted soon after the debate that the cable television ratings for the event were the most bigly ever:

Fox News did announce that it was the highest-rated presidential debate in cable news history:

Fox News was the top network, drawing 17.8 million, followed by ABC with 12.6 million, NBC with 9.7 million and CNN with 8.3 million. Among viewers in the 25-54 news demographic, Fox News was on top with 5.3 million, followed by ABC with 4.9 million, NBC with 4.1 million and CNN with 3.5 million.

Fox News said it was the highest-rated presidential debate in cable news history. A record 24 million viewers watched a Fox News primary debate between Trump and other GOP contenders in 2015.

Except. The Presidential debate ratings actually fell from 2016, when he made his debut debate appearance. Apparently, the novelty of a reality television star in a presidential debate was more of a draw than the known-quantity of Trump debating four years later. Or perhaps Hillary Clinton was the real draw back then and Trump was just the sideshow:

An estimated 73.1 million people watched the first presidential debate of 2020, a huge audience but still short of the blockbuster audience for the initial matchup four years ago.

The numbers are from Nielsen and include 16 networks.

In 2016, the first debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton drew 84 million.

The total viewers for the debate might not have matched the last cycle, but they still were impressive. Only two other debates in the past 45 years have drawn more viewers: In 2016 and in 1980, when Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter met for their only matchup. That debate drew 80.6 million viewers.

Do you remember the debate between Reagan and Carter?

Watching the 1980 debate is like entering a time capsule. Quaint, gentlemanly…civil. What a stark contrast to Tuesday night’s obnoxious verbal slap fest.

It included this gem: We don’t’ have inflation because the people are living too well. We have inflation because the government is living too well. You already know which candidates said this…

Anyway, at last night’s rally, Trump bragged to Minnesotans that, not only did the debate bring in the highest ratings of any cable show but that he won even though he had to debate two people! What a man, what a mighty fine man:

The verdict is in and they say that we, we, all of us, won big last night. I don’t know. Did you hear about this? In the history of cable television, it had the highest ratings of any show in the history of cable television. It had the second highest ratings of overall television in the history of television. Does anybody know what was first? Like M*A*S*H or something? I guess M*A*S*H, they had the final episode of M*A*S*H, and I don’t know what was first. Does anybody know? But we were second in the history of all of television, but the biggest ratings in the history of cable television. It’s an honor…I was debating two people last night. Joe Biden is too weak to lead this country. You know Biden lost badly when his supporters are saying he should cancel the rest of the debates. Now, I understand he’s canceling the debates. Let’s see what happens. I think that’s not going to be a good move. I don’t think that’s going to be a good move. Television, with those ratings, they’re never going to let them cancel. You don’t know television like that. What are they going to do? Someday, we’re not going to be doing this anymore. What are they going to do without Trump? What are they going to do?

It’s all about quantity, not quality. It’s about having the most of well, everything. That’s the mark of a real winner in Trump’s book. Substance never really comes into play. That’s just a timewaster and distraction from the show that is Trump. He has no understanding that his performative bullshit is just that. A mile wide, one-sixteenth of an inch deep. So of course he is happy to revel in his self-proclaimed victory, because in spite of having to unfairly debate both Joe Biden and Chris Wallace, he was the winner. Just ask him.

–Dana

192 Responses to “Trump Makes It Official: “I Won The Debate””

  1. Always a winner in his own eyes. That’s easy to do when substance never matters.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. I think at this point no one takes seriously anything he says.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  3. I don’t think that’s necessarily true, Time123. You would think that if it were, he wouldn’t have such a devoted base of supporters. Of course, love is frequently blind…

    Dana (292df6)

  4. The Emperor’s New Clothes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. Sometimes I wonder what the Founders would think at each inauguration. I think that they would all have been proud of the system they built the day that Obama was inaugurated. And aghast the day that Trump was.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. I don’t think he hurt himself much either…and that’s a “win”.

    Also, this is a re-election campaign, so it’s not really about who can turn out the undecided.

    Folks had 4 years to decide now.

    It’s really about how well each campaign can turn out their voters.

    whembly (c30c83)

  7. I’m sure Trump’s head-nodders spoon-fed him those phony polls, so he could crow about it at rallies.
    A real poll by CNN showed that Biden won independents 50-28.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  8. He has no understanding that his performative bullshit is just that.

    Now do Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5189e0)

  9. He has no understanding that his performative bullsh!t is just that.

    Now do Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5189e0)

  10. Plenty of true believers insist Trump won, simply because life is so fair for the poor loser. Any outcome is a win relative to some fantasy.

    I don’t think he hurt himself much either…and that’s a “win”.

    That is actually not what winning is. Biden prevailed. And that’s a win.

    Trump’s strategy looked stupid. Biden got so lucky, because he surely would be recovering from a few gaffes, but Trump instead made him look resolute and strong, withstanding, in stride, a baboon that made the moderator tremble.

    Trump is saying he heard the debates were called off. Biden is saying he looks forward to them. That’s a major reversal.

    I still wouldn’t be surprised if Trump won, since he intends to cheat.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  11. I would take 50 lashes to get the GOP to replace Trump with a decent candidate, so I didn’t have to vote for Biden. It’s too late, this is a stupid fantasy, but it is so sad the GOP didn’t convict the sucker or pick a different candidate (granted, Trump holding the convention at the White House made this impossible).

    Like everyone who has trusted Trump or relied on him, the GOP is about to be left wondering what’s in that bag they are holding.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  12. Watching the Carter Reagan debate, I always wait for Barbara Walters to force the two candidates to criticize the other near the end. There is a whiff at that moment of what went wrong in our society, thanks to journalists like her.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  13. Dana, hate is also blind.

    1DaveMac (1d5593)

  14. Biden Lead Looks Firmer as Midwest Moves His Way
    ……
    With a stable national lead and a bevy of polling showing him running significantly better with northern white voters than Hillary Clinton performed four years ago, Joe Biden appears to be turning back the clock a bit on the United States’ political transformation.

    Namely, after Clinton hemorrhaged white voters in northern small town and rural areas in 2016, Biden appears to be bringing some of those voters back into the Democratic fold while also improving on Clinton’s margins with white suburbanites. If this pattern holds in the actual results, it could pay major dividends for Biden in the Great Lakes region, where American presidential elections are so often won and lost and where the electorates in the competitive states are whiter than the nation as a whole.

    ……We are moving Minnesota from Leans Democratic to Likely Democratic. We are also moving its neighbor, Wisconsin — the decisive state in the 2016 presidential election — from Toss-up to Leans Democratic. And, finally, we’re moving Iowa and Ohio, both of which voted for Donald Trump by margins approaching double digits in 2016, from Leans Republican to Toss-up.
    …..
    The changes in Iowa and Ohio come both because of the broad improvements Biden has made with white voters in many different places and also because of more recent polling showing the presidential race very competitive in each state……

    In Iowa, the tell may have been that Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) has been locked in a very competitive contest with businesswoman Theresa Greenfield (D), and it seems like the presidential race is not much different (though Trump typically polls a little better than Ernst).

    Meanwhile, Biden’s lead in Wisconsin has been as good or even better than his lead in Michigan and Pennsylvania, two states we’ve had in the Leans Democratic column since June (Pennsylvania) or since we debuted our Electoral College ratings last year (Michigan). Biden’s leads are in the five-to-seven point range in all three states. Minnesota voted slightly more Democratic than these states in 2016, and the president’s bid to flip the state does not appear to be succeeding. We think it merits being in a less competitive category than the Michigan-Pennsylvania-Wisconsin group: If Minnesota flips, something will have gone seriously wrong for Biden, and Trump would almost certainly be winning a second term.
    …….
    We may also be compelled to move Texas and especially Georgia to Toss-up sooner rather than later. At the very least, these states are consistently closer in polls than 2016’s decisive trio of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. …..

    All told, the president continues to need a significant shift in the numbers — or an even bigger polling error than we saw in 2016 — to bring this race back into true Toss-up territory. …..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. Actually, as noted on another thread, after carefully [and painfully] watching and listening to the “debate” for a third time, Trump is essentially correct. He did edge out a win- but just barely– the taste of victory was lost in the ensuing pie fight. Biden was the first to interrupt, throwing a cocoanut custard; Trump tossed back three banana creams and Wallace lost complete control like Vernon Dent in a Three Stooges short.

    ______

    Even Carter/Reagan appears ‘flashy'; you should review the decorum of the Nixon-Kennedy debates.

    Simple set; two podiums, two glasses of water, two chairs, a moderator and three REAL journalists [fellas like Cronkite and Chancellor] seated at a table asking questions relevant to their era. It was decidedly informative– though not exactly entertaining. But in this era, it has to be entertaining. Pie fights usually are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMsaVWaPenM

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbY8M9Jg2as

    ‘Who threw those pies?’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. Dana, hate is also blind.

    1DaveMac (1d5593) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:19 am

    It certainly can be. However, in Trump’s case, my own deep dislike (not hate) for him is based on the evidence that he himself has provided. Trump’s devotees are far more prone to ignoring the very same evidence in order to remain blinded and adoring of him.

    Dana (292df6)

  18. In 1996, Chris Rock had a monologue, where he said:

    A lot of racial s–t this year … A lot of racial s–t: what is the big thing? O.J. That’s right. Black people too happy, white people too mad. The white people like: “That is a bulls–t!” I ain’t seen white people that nasty since they cancelled “M.A.S.H.”!

    Black people ???: “Yes, we won, we won! Yes! We won!” What the f–k did we win? Every day I look at the mailbox for my O.J. prize: nothing! Nothing!

    OK, Donald, you won. You get the magic decoder ring.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  19. Watching the Carter Reagan debate, I always wait for Barbara Walters to force the two candidates to criticize the other near the end. There is a whiff at that moment of what went wrong in our society, thanks to journalists like her.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:02 am

    There is that too. It shows the ability of moderators to misuse their power by interjecting, whether bluntly or subtly and manipulatively, their own preferences, biases, or simple need to control the moment by exerting their power.

    Dana (292df6)

  20. Given that the plan is to win re-election based on a compilation of polls, etc., this is unsurprising.

    Rather low-energy, but unsurprising.

    john (cd2753)

  21. Like everyone who has trusted Trump or relied on him, the GOP is about to be left wondering what’s in that bag they are holding.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:58 am

    I think a lot of them already are, and are making plans accordingly. These are the fellow-grifters who happily fell for the biggest grifter of all because they knew he could benefit their self-interests most. The writing is on the wall for everyone to see and so, I don’t see them standing around to waiting for the hammer to drop without having a backup plan in place.

    Dana (292df6)

  22. This:

    Sometimes I wonder what the Founders would think at each inauguration. I think that they would all have been proud of the system they built the day that Obama was inaugurated. And aghast the day that Trump was.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:36 am

    Dana (292df6)

  23. About which: it is hardly a news flash that Trump can be a bully. But there may be a method to his seeming madness. Remember how Biden manhandled Paul Ryan in the 2012 debate by constantly interrupting and ridiculing Ryan? Ryan’s mistake was that he came prepared to debate policy ideas—silly wonk that he is—while Biden wanted to make Ryan look young and inexperienced. And he was successful at doing that with Ryan. Trump wasn’t about to let that happen, but along the way he did induce Biden into making several mistakes, such as refusing to answer about court packing, and getting Biden to back away from the Green New Deal. And ask yourself a simple question: who looked like the stronger person on that stage? That isn’t a close call.

    Observations

    I agree that President Trump won the debate, just not bigley. I also agree with President Trump and that he wasn’t just debating Joe Biden, but he was debating Joe Biden and Chris Wallace.

    Just watched the debate -carefully- for the third time.

    Biden was the first to start interrupting. Also lost count of how many times he chortled and said ‘here’s the deal’… he did it a lot. It’s hard to conclude- but upon the third review, Trump did actually edge out the win– but it was lost in the overall pie fight.

    And Trump was, for severa times on several issues, literally debating Wallace, who, upon this third viewing, lost control as moderator within the first five minutes. And yes, Biden was the more hostile and disrespectful. It’s hard to believe knowing Trump’s personality. Joe wasn’t very good w/answers either– if you pay attention to what he actually said.

    Wallace really did the country a disservice by failing to take a firm hand and actually moderate. It wasn’t so much Trump as it was Biden who threw the first pie. Trump threw three back at him, Wallace lost control and comedy gold was born.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:18 am

    DCSCA, You are far braver than I. Thank you for your sacrifice.

    No matter what the MSM says about wanting a Gentlemans debate, this is exactly what they wanted. They wanted a WWF wrestling match. If a few chairs were thrown they would probably have liked that better.

    People view Hillary Clinton as a harridan and feel sorry for Joe Biden. People shouldn’t let their feelings of compassion for Joe Biden’s aging health or hate for President Trump get in the way of what’s best for the United States. I believe they should reject the left’s view from a few populous states.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  24. If he’ll misinform about polls, then he’ll misinform about more serious stuff.

    Of the flood of misinformation, conspiracy theories and falsehoods seeding the internet on the coronavirus, one common thread stands out: President Trump.
    That is the conclusion of researchers at Cornell University who analyzed 38 million articles about the pandemic in English-language media around the world. Mentions of Mr. Trump made up nearly 38 percent of the overall “misinformation conversation,” making the president the largest driver of the “infodemic” — falsehoods involving the pandemic.
    The study, to be released Thursday, is the first comprehensive examination of coronavirus misinformation in traditional and online media.
    “The biggest surprise was that the president of the United States was the single largest driver of misinformation around Covid,” said Sarah Evanega, the director of the Cornell Alliance for Science and the study’s lead author. “That’s concerning in that there are real-world dire health implications.”

    Trump’s misinformation spree on CV19 extended to the debate, specifically on masks.

    Dr. Fauci, whose relationship with his boss has often seemed tenuous at best, took issue with his claims the day after the debate.
    “Anybody who has been listening to me over the last several months knows that a conversation does not go by where I do not strongly recommend that people wear masks,” he said in an interview on ABC News’s “Start Here” podcast. The full interview can be heard Thursday, ABC said.
    Dr. Fauci explained that “very early on in the pandemic,” the authorities did not recommend masks to the general public because they were worried about shortages and hoarding. But that changed, he said, as it became clear that asymptomatic transmission was spreading the virus and that masks helped stop it.
    “I have been on the airways, on the radio, on TV, begging people to wear masks,” Dr. Fauci said. “And I keep talking in the context of: Wear a mask, keep physical distance, avoid crowds, wash your hands and do things more outdoors versus indoors.”

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  25. Dana, describe any policies that Donald Trump has put in place or advocated for that you agree with.

    1DaveMac (5b01e8)

  26. Biden was the first to start interrupting.

    I’ll say this again. It’s technically true but misleading. Wallace laid out the ground rules thus.

    The Commission has designed the format, six roughly 15 minute segments with two minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules.

    Biden interjected first at the appropriate time, during open discussion. The real problem was when Trump kept interrupting during Biden’s allotted two minutes.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  27. This:

    Sometimes I wonder what the Founders would think at each inauguration. I think that they would all have been proud of the system they built the day that Obama was inaugurated. And aghast the day that Trump was.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:36 am

    Dana (292df6) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:52 am

    The Founders would’ve been aghast! Obama said that he wanted to fundamentally transform America which meant to destroy everything the Founders created.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  28. Like everyone who has trusted Trump or relied on him, the GOP is about to be left wondering what’s in that bag they are holding.

    What’s in the Biden bag that you’re all jazzed up about?

    A year from now, you’ll still be holding that bag even if some of us here have to remind you.

    beer ‘n pretzels (900304)

  29. @27, Biden is horrible and I’m going to hate his administration. But Trump is so much worse that Biden is the lesser evil. My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  30. @26, I think more then a few of them would have been aghast we elected a black man as president. Even the abolitionists at the time had a ‘dim’ view of black people.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  31. Dana, describe any policies that Donald Trump has put in place or advocated for that you agree with.

    1DaveMac (5b01e8) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:56 am

    I’ll go

    1. Deregulation has been good.
    2. Decriminalization was good and I doubt a dem could have gotten it done.
    3. The opening of diplomatic relations between UAE, Bahrain, and Israel is good.
    4. Many of this judges have been good.

    That’s about what i got off the top of my head.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  32. I think a lot of them already are, and are making plans accordingly. These are the fellow-grifters who happily fell for the biggest grifter of all because they knew he could benefit their self-interests most.

    If Trump loses, all those folks who pulled the lever for Trump in the 2016 primaries need to go back to the end of the line.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  33. That’s about what i got off the top of my head.

    I would add (1) taking out Suleimani, (2) tightening the screws on Maduro, (3) half credit for pressuring TikTok but letting them keep their source code, (4) continuing Obama’s tack on ridding the Islamic State, including loosening the rules of engagement, until he cut and ran from Kurdish Syria, (5) running a US Navy destroyer through the South China Sea for freedom-of-navigation reasons.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  34. Actually, if you watch and listen to the debate carefully– in fact, Biden was brain-farting all over himself:

    ‘Here’s the deal’ repeated times 10 to the 23rd power; ‘clown’… ‘quit yapping and shut up’– ‘my son, my son, my son,’… ‘I won’t answer because if I do my answer will become the issue’… ‘I’m the Democratic Party today’… and the crowning line: ‘my program will pay for itself.’

    Trump’s mistake was not throttling back and letting the ol’guy ramble himself into complete implosion.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. If Trump loses, all those folks who pulled the lever for Trump in the 2016 primaries need to go back to the end of the line.

    Nobody knows what you mean by “end of the line, Montagu, but that sounds right given that your wing of the party has gotten particularly experienced at handling defeat. Show us how it’s done.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5189e0)

  36. Biden clearly made some mistakes, part of which was induced by Trump’s fussilade of bullsh*t and drivel.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  37. My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    That’s like hoping that when the fox gets into power, he will bring back the norms that restrain foxes from eating chickens.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  38. Show us how it’s done.

    Did you vote for Trump in the 2016 primaries?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  39. My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    No one, in any Western society, has ever voluntarily given up power…the naiveté to think that has me shaking my head. You can also be certain that President Harris would expand it even further.

    Horatio (79bbf3)

  40. No one, in any Western society, has ever voluntarily given up power

    George Washington did. He could have been king, but he voluntarily gave up the position.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  41. @26, I think more then a few of them would have been aghast we elected a black man as president. Even the abolitionists at the time had a ‘dim’ view of black people.

    Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:22 pm

    Irrelevant and doesn’t address Dana’s comment, nor mine.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  42. Did you vote for Trump in the 2016 primaries?

    What does that matter? No. I have no quarrel with anyone who did. They backed the candidate that is giving conservatives a 5-3-1 SCOTUS majority instead of a 3-5-1 minority, and flipped the 9th circuit.

    beer ‘n pretzels (5189e0)

  43. My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    That’s like hoping that when the fox gets into power, he will bring back the norms that restrain foxes from eating chickens.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    It’s not a higher percentage outcome, but Trump doesn’t even understand out system of government, let alone the limits it puts on him.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  44. @27, Biden is horrible and I’m going to hate his administration. But Trump is so much worse that Biden is the lesser evil. My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:21 pm

    I believe Obama with his I have a phone and a pen and bypassing congress with many of his executive orders. Show me one executive order that President Trump has given that bypasses Congress’ constitutional purpose of creating law.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  45. I think a lot of them already are, and are making plans accordingly. These are the fellow-grifters who happily fell for the biggest grifter of all because they knew he could benefit their self-interests most.

    If Trump loses, all those folks who pulled the lever for Trump in the 2016 primaries need to go back to the end of the line.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:27 pm

    That seems an awful lot like the words of a tyrant. A little like Obama telling the Republicans “you lost“ and they didn’t have any say in the ACA. If Trump loses, he loses. It’s not the first time conservatives have lost. I just don’t think he’s going lose.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  46. @44

    I believe Obama with his I have a phone and a pen and bypassing congress with many of his executive orders. Show me one executive order that President Trump has given that bypasses Congress’ constitutional purpose of creating law.

    Tanny O’Haley (8a06bc) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:59 pm

    To be fair Tanny… Trump signed an EO that no one could be evicted till the end of the year claiming a dubious CDC statute.

    I’m still not convinced that was kosher.

    whembly (c30c83)

  47. I have no quarrel with anyone who did.

    I do. It was those Republicans who delivered arguably the worst president in history when there were other choices who could’ve beat Hillary by wider margins. Far as I’m concerned, they’re the cancer on the party, Trump is the symptom, and their opinions can sit in the back seat.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  48. Dana, describe any policies that Donald Trump has put in place or advocated for that you agree with.

    1DaveMac (5b01e8) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:56 am

    I’ll go

    1. Deregulation has been good.
    2. Decriminalization was good and I doubt a dem could have gotten it done.
    3. The opening of diplomatic relations between UAE, Bahrain, and Israel is good.
    4. Many of this judges have been good.

    That’s about what i got off the top of my head.

    Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:24 pm

    That’s a good start. I would add his attempt at defending Planned Parenthood and his executive order preventing CRT from being taught in the federal government and companies that get money from the federal government.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  49. but Trump doesn’t even understand out system of government, let alone the limits it puts on him.

    Yes. One guy does not understand the system, and wants more power. The other guy UNDERSTANDS the system and wants more power.

    Whom do you think is more dangerous?

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  50. That seems an awful lot like the words of a tyrant.

    I’m just a guy on the internet with an opinion, Tanny. This party went off the rails when it nominated political smegma.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  51. 36.Biden clearly made some mistakes, part of which was induced by Trump’s fussilade of bullsh*t and drivel.

    47 years of mistakes.

    And lest America forgets, in all those 47 years PLUS 20 years more: Biden HAS NOT lived in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. To be fair Tanny… Trump signed an EO that no one could be evicted till the end of the year claiming a dubious CDC statute.

    I’m still not convinced that was kosher.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:07 pm

    I would have to add the executive order telling insurance companies that they have to ensure people with pre-existing conditions. Not because it isn’t a compassionate thing to do, but because the federal government has no right to regulate health insurance or healthcare because it is not an enumerated power of the federal government in article I section 8 of the US Constitution. I should have asked:

    Show me one executive order that President Trump has given that you disagree with that bypasses Congress’ constitutional purpose of creating law.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  53. @50. This party went off the rails when it nominated political smegma.

    That’s a rude term to use even for Barry Goldwater. Ronald Reagan was merely a known thespian.

    Welcome to 1964, Paul.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. That seems an awful lot like the words of a tyrant.

    I’m just a guy on the internet with an opinion, Tanny. This party went off the rails when it nominated political smegma.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:12 pm

    Just because you’re a guy on the Internet with an opinion doesn’t change the words from seeming an awful lot like those of a tyrant.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  55. It was those Republicans who delivered arguably the worst president in history

    Richard Milhous Nixon.

    Arguably. Play the tapes…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. Welcome to 1964, Paul.

    Called as seen, DCSCA. Trump helped establish this new era of rudeness and crudeness. Lock him up.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  57. Just because you’re a guy on the Internet with an opinion doesn’t change the words from seeming an awful lot like those of a tyrant.

    Stand back and stand by, Tanny, and send battalions of Trumpians to “watch” the polls. That’s not a little tyrannical? Why should those defending that be in places of prominence after Trump loses?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  58. No one, in any Western society, has ever voluntarily given up power

    If Memorex serves, The Big Dick left ‘voluntarily.’ Nobody walked him out of the Oval to a chopper at gun point.

    “Therefore, I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow.” – Richard Nixon, 8/8/74

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. @56. Trump is a Reagan Creation, Paul. He was and is the inevitable last act to that glitzy, gaudy, junk bonded era of excess smoke and mirrors. He is your ‘Picture of Dorian Gray.’ He is you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Tanny, I think you meant to type “defunding Planned Parenthood” above at 48.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  61. That’s like hoping that when the fox gets into power, he will bring back the norms that restrain foxes from eating chickens.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    Bored Lawyer is right. Anyone expecting Biden to be the cure to the nation’s problems, even with the White House, is being fooled. Easy mistake to make because Trump sucks all the oxygen out of the room, but Biden will not be a great president (as much as I hope he will be). There is so much anger on his side now, so many disasters in the world he will have to handle calmly, many opportunities for power he would need to resist, making a hard job harder.

    I’m voting for Biden with open eyes to what we’re getting. And it’s not much.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  62. I believe Obama with his I have a phone and a pen and bypassing congress with many of his executive orders. Show me one executive order that President Trump has given that bypasses Congress’ constitutional purpose of creating law.

    Tanny O’Haley (8a06bc) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:59 pm

    His travel ban (not based on actual risks), his emergency declaration to fund the wall (you’ll love how an AOC would use this with military funding), his ‘anarchist’ cities thing (Wait until you see the state level gun laws than can stretched to mean anarchy), his excessive use of executive privilege all leap to mind also.

    Also his vast corruption.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  63. @26. See #34.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. Trump is a Reagan Creation, Paul. He was and is the inevitable last act to that glitzy, gaudy, junk bonded era of excess smoke and mirrors. He is your ‘Picture of Dorian Gray.’ He is you.

    Yeah, you’ve said that before, incessantly and ad nauseum, and repeating it over and over and over isn’t helping. It’s not like, after the 641st time, I’ll say, hey, maybe DCSCA is on to something.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  65. Tanny @44-

    I believe Obama with his I have a phone and a pen and bypassing congress with many of his executive orders. Show me one executive order that President Trump has given that bypasses Congress’ constitutional purpose of creating law.

    Deferring payroll taxes
    Provide temporary unemployment benefits
    Banning bump stocks
    Withholding funding from sanctuary cities
    Withholding funding from “anarchist” jurisdictions

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. Tanny, I think you meant to type “defunding Planned Parenthood” above at 48.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:41 pm

    Yes, I meant defunding. Thank you. I appreciate the catch. As I’ve stated elsewhere I have Parkinson’s and I use dictation on my iPhone. It rarely gets everything right. I dictate, do my best to correct with a tremor, and more often than I would like to say I miss clear mistakes.

    BTW. I do take carbidopa/levodopa (7 times a day and 2 ER before bed) which is Parkinson’s medication that helps reduce symptoms. However it doesn’t get rid of all of the symptoms and the part of Parkinson’s that affects fine motor functions is one of those. Amazingly since the medication helps restore connections between the brain and nerves about 80 to 85% of my body pain goes away even though the medication is not a painkiller nor narcotic.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  67. It’s not like, after the 641st time, I’ll say, hey, maybe DCSCA is on to something.

    Well you know the old saying. 642nd times a charm.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  68. Deferring payroll taxes
    Provide temporary unemployment benefits
    Banning bump stocks
    Withholding funding from sanctuary cities
    Withholding funding from “anarchist” jurisdictions

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:48 pm

    I agree with the first two, but not with it last two because those are administrative in nature and he is the chief administrator of the federal government therefore I believe legal. Though I would ask this for consideration where in article 1 section 8 of the enumerated powers of the federal government in the US Constitution is permission given for any of those things.

    I see income taxes as an amendment, but not payroll taxes.

    I don’t see anywhere in the enumerated powers the right to regulate guns.

    Sending money to states, cities, jurisdictions? I don’t see that either.

    Maybe someone can enlighten me?

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  69. @64/@67… “You’re gonna drink it just for the taste of it.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRZofakC2Nw

    ____

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP30ph6jcHE

    Hello Joe, what do ya know?”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Diet Coke versus Geritol.

    Choose.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. @64. Don’t hate yourself, Paul.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9TEezzr6fw

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. Aspertame is gross.

    Nic (896fdf)

  73. “Maybe someone can enlighten me?”

    Commonly known as the Spending Clause, Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution has been widely recognized as providing the federal government with the legal authority to offer federal grant funds to states and localities that are contingent on the recipients engaging in, or refraining from, certain activities. However, the Supreme Court has articulated certain limitations on the exercise of this power. In its 1987 decision in South Dakota v. Dole, which arguably remains the leading case regarding the use of the federal government’s conditional spending power, the Court held that legislation enacted pursuant to the Spending Clause must be in pursuit of the “general welfare.” In addition, the Dole Court held that any conditions attached to the receipt of federal funds must: (1) be unambiguously established so that recipients can knowingly accept or reject them; (2) be germane to the federal interest in the particular national projects or programs to which the money is directed; (3) not violate other provisions of the Constitution, such as the First Amendment or the Due Process or Takings Clauses of the Fifth Amendment; and (4) not cross the line from enticement to impermissible coercion, such that states have no real choice but to accept the funding and enact or administer a federal regulatory program. The fourth of these criteria, in particular, is intended to ensure that any conditions on federal grant funds do not run afoul of the Tenth Amendment’s prohibition on the federal government’s “commandeering” of state or local governments or officials by requiring them to carry out federal programs.

    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R44797.html

    The 4th criteria specifically protects sanctuary cities.
    The first criteria will be what is used to block the “anarchist jurisdictions” order should Trump try to enforce it.

    Davethulhu (f7bb9b)

  74. @72. You never tasted Tab, circa 1967. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. On the rare occasions I make an utter fool of myself, I’d rather fewer people saw it than more. BUt that’s just me.

    Maybe Trump suffers from a weird form of Asperger’s where he can’t tell whether people are cheering or booing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. The jig is up, and there’s no more Much Music to run back to. I’m surprised he made it that long as CNN to Fox guy (other than Dobbs), it’s usually the other way around.

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  77. I don’t think he hurt himself much either…and that’s a “win”.

    I do. I don’t think he won over anyone new, and that’s what these things are for. He performed adequately for his posse, but anyone with any doubts as to his temperament, or who thought the press was exaggerating, came away shaking their head. Probably fairly quickly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. @75 Nope, I did not. My existence was still in the future.

    Nic (896fdf)

  79. Wallace came from abc.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  80. The 4th criteria specifically protects sanctuary cities.

    How quaint — an Article I, Section 8 reference. I thought the Dems put that through a shredder decades ago.

    beer ‘n pretzels (076a89)

  81. No, I’m talking about the “other” John Roberts, slayee of McEnany.

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  82. “How quaint — an Article I, Section 8 reference. I thought the Dems put that through a shredder decades ago.”

    I’m happy to have corrected your ignorance.

    Davethulhu (f7bb9b)

  83. If Trump loses, all those folks who pulled the lever for Trump in the 2016 primaries need to go back to the end of the line.

    Like our host, I voted against Trump in the primary when there wasn’t a chance it wouldn’t be Trump. Unlike our host, I remained in the party so I could do it again in 2020. And I did.

    “I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part.” — Otter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4DZeBleLs

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. @78

    I do. I don’t think he won over anyone new, and that’s what these things are for. He performed adequately for his posse, but anyone with any doubts as to his temperament, or who thought the press was exaggerating, came away shaking their head. Probably fairly quickly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/1/2020 @ 2:33 pm

    Same thing can be said about Biden bruh. The difference is that the media attempts to mitigate that where all possible.

    Trump’s behavior was boorish. But, that doesn’t excuse Biden’s bunghole behavior either. At least the public saw that.

    whembly (c30c83)

  85. @82

    John Roberts, slayee of McEnany.

    urbanleftbehind (093714) — 10/1/2020 @ 2:44 pm

    Thanks for that laugh.

    whembly (c30c83)

  86. Who knows, thats what they say, but maybe there was anti-Rittenhouse chatter being picked up.

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  87. No they just moved it.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  88. “A political rally violated the terms of the La Crosse airport’s lease with Colgan Air Service, which planned to host the rally, airport director Ian Turner said.”

    I withdraw the “coward” accusation, but if the lease is the reason, then it is piss-poor advance planning.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  89. From lacrosse to janesville. The previous had an outbreak try to inform yourself.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  90. Dilbert Creator Scott Adams Says Trump Has Lost His Vote Over White Supremacy Comments: ‘He Screwed Me’
    …..
    The Dilbert creator explained that he was excited when the “fine people hoax” came up again and expected Trump to shut down “the lie,” but was incredibly disappointed with what the president did instead…..

    “I thought, it’s so obvious what you should say in this situation, and then he just didn’t,” he added. “I thought to myself, I really feel abused, honestly. I took it personally. That wasn’t politics anymore. That wasn’t politics anymore. That was me personally, and I feel like he screwed me — personally.

    “And then I had to sit there, stewing in that, and that white nationalist, white supremacist question comes up, and he botched it,” he added. “It was a layup. It was free money sitting on the f*cking table, and he left it there.”
    ……..
    Why anybody cares what a cartoonist thinks is beyond me. The same goes for Hollywood people.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  91. It was those Republicans who delivered arguably the worst president in history — Richard Milhous Nixon.

    Well perhaps there’s a superficial argument, but let’s consider his achievements:

    * Clean Air Act
    * Clean Water Act
    * EPA
    * OSHA
    * Endangered Species Act
    * wide-scale desegregation and strengthening the Voting Right Act
    * Postal Service Act
    * SALT
    * ABM Treaty
    * CSCE
    * detente with the Soviet Union
    * opening China to the world (becoming a Vulcan proverb)
    * long-term strategic plans for the Cold War
    * ending the Vietnam war
    * had Israel’s back in the Yom Kippur War

    Now, you may say that not all of these were good things, and I’d agree, but he was a hell of a lot more effective than most Presidents. He won re-election with 49 states, a record. But, Watergate, and his tragic flaw. Shakespeare should write a play.

    Despite his accomplishments, his exit drags his rating down. He hovers now around 30th out of 45, with a bullet up.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. So will Paul Ryan get beat up if he tries to sneak in?

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  93. @93-
    Most of the “accomplishments” was increasing federal power at the expense of the states (the first four items), the SALT the ABM treaties, and detente weakened America, and “ending” the Vietnam War consisted of surrendering.

    Outside of that…..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  94. @80. No. Wallace was NBC– and daddy Mike Wallace help get him a beginning gig as an assistant at CBS to… Walter Cronkite.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. Should be “Most of the “accomplishments” was increasing federal power at the expense of the states (the first five items).”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  96. Why anybody cares what a cartoonist thinks is beyond me.

    He’s speaking as a high-profile backer of President Trump who belatedly realizes he’s been swindled. This is why Trump lost the debate. He lost the undecideds completely, attracting no one, and he managed to repel some of his long-term supporters.

    I expect Scott Adams to be roundly denigrated and made a non-person in Trumpian echo chambers.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. Why anybody cares what a cartoonist thinks is beyond me.

    Jake Tapper is a cartoonist.

    The same goes for Hollywood people.

    Like George Murphy… and Ronald Reagan.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  98. If Biden, natch, Harris were smart, Scott Adams could be their Dick Morris.

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  99. Rip,

    The measure of a president is not how much I agreed with him, but how effective he was at what he tried to do. He also MIRVed the deterrent and established MAD as our defense posture. Yes, Nixon was a statist of the mid-century Republican sort, something Goldwater failed to change and Reagan did. But that does not mean he was a terrible president. There have been crappy statists, too, like Jimmy Carter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. @93. Well perhaps there’s a superficial argument, but let’s consider his achievements:

    Except it’s not.

    Listen to all the tapes.

    Achievements: Half the dead slaughtered in Vietnam for nothing were on his watch. Wasted. He knew what was in the Pentagon Papers. There isn’t enough urine in Yorba Linda to soak his grave.

    Watergate.

    Resignation.

    Listen to the tapes…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. DCSCA, so, in 1969, he should have just cut and run from Vietnam? It doesn’t work that way. US policy was deeply entrenched and doing what you so lamely suggest would have destroyed America as a world power. No one would trust us. Even leaving as we did 5 years later harmed our credibility. Doing it then would have left millions who trusted us to die bloody deaths. But I guess they don’t count if they aren’t Americans.

    Usually I can take your inanity in stride, but this is just a horrific argument. I comes as not surprise that you are still supporting Trump though, as his an analysis of things is pretty much on par with yours.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. “Most of the “accomplishments” was increasing federal power at the expense of the states (the first five items).”

    I’d go further. Nixon implemented the Great Society that Johnson failed to do. Most of the parts that Nixon built worked though, as opposed to Johnson’s welfare crap. But that was the thing back then. Until Reagan, both parties were federalizing everything. And Reagan only managed to free economic activity; government power remained lodged in Washington.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. Like George Murphy… and Ronald Reagan.

    I was a kid when Murphy was a Senator. Typical liberal Republican-couldn’t get elected today. Reagan was a great Governor and President.

    I am thinking of the Susan Sarandons, Mike Farrells, and Rob Reiners. Too much money, too much time on their hands, and too few brains.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  104. Mass layoffs continue:

    Tens of thousands of airline workers are out of jobs after Congress fails to reach deal

    As many as 50,000 airline workers could be furloughed starting Thursday morning after Congress failed to pass a last-minute deal to extend coronavirus relief aid to the embattled industry.

    Add in the 28,000 from Disney in CA and FL, it’s going to be a grinchy Christmas. Trump’s lucky the Oct. unemployment numbers come out after the election.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  105. Trump could claim he won the 2020 Miss Universe beauty pageant and all of his base would insist he really did.

    nk (1d9030)

  106. Ot jamie foxx is returning for spiderman 3, for reasons

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  107. Ot, Thug Sox lost and out of playoffs, Cubs outlasted but only b/c of a dubious rain out called with little water actually falling. Methinks because former Ranger and Dodger Yu Darvish never started in 50 degrees or below temps.

    urbanleftbehind (093714)

  108. ELIJAH RIOT
    @ElijahSchaffer

    UNREAL: Portland protesters are lecturing hotel guests through a megaphone

    About how the fact they won’t join the vigil and continue hanging out in their hotel rooms shows their privilege
    __ _

    Def sounds like the Proud Boys.
    _

    harkin (ab264c)

  109. Some asshole with a Harley was coming out of the corner bar every so often and revving it to shake the whole neighborhood for two or three minutes. He kept it up for a couple of hours until it stopped raining and he and his buddies rode off.

    Definitely sounded like Antifa.

    nk (1d9030)

  110. It wasn’t more than a month ago when somebody in a $70,000 Audi SUV blew his horn behind me twice while we were both in a left turn lane. The first time because I did not turn on the red, and the second time because I let a pedestrian cross before I turned on the arrow.

    We need a President who’ll put a stop to this!

    nk (1d9030)

  111. Time123 (b4d075) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:22 am

    I think at this point no one takes seriously anything he says.

    I usually don’t take him seriously but I think I’m in the minority. Everyone now claiming he told the Proud Boys to stand by for when they are needed seemed to take him seriously. How many times have we heard “but when the president says it it means something”?

    frosty (f27e97)

  112. Trump: “I won the debate!”
    Hope Hicks: “I lost.”
    That said, I wouldn’t mind contact-tracing her.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  113. Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/1/2020 @ 12:21 pm

    My one hope for Biden is that he’s able to restore some of the norms that limit executive power.

    Why do you hope this? Are you being sarcastic? A person votes Biden/Harris because they want more executive action not limits.

    He says he wants to establish at least 10 testing centres in every state, call upon federal agencies to deploy resources and give firmer national guidance through federal experts. He says all governors should mandate wearing masks.
    Voters suspicious of federal authority will see this as overreach, but it lies very much in line with Mr Biden’s and Democrats’ general view on the role government should play.

    To address the immediate impact of the coronavirus crisis, Mr Biden has vowed to spend “whatever it takes” to extend loans to small businesses and increase direct money payments to families. Among the proposals are an additional $200 in Social Security payments per month, rescinding Trump-era tax cuts and $10,000 of student loan forgiveness for federal loans.

    Harris stated that, if elected President, she would give lawmakers in Congress 100 days to pass “reasonable gun safety laws,” during a CNN Town Hall in Manchester, New Hampshire ( here&feature=youtu.be&t=80 ). “If they fail to do it,” Harris continued, “then I will take executive action.”

    This isn’t an executive power issue. I just thought it was funny:

    Restore America’s reputation… and maybe take on China

    Maybe?

    frosty (f27e97)

  114. whembly (c30c83) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:07 pm

    I’m still not convinced that was kosher.

    To paraphrase a David Allan Coe song, that ain’t kosher.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:33 pm

    send battalions of Trumpians to “watch” the polls. That’s not a little tyrannical?

    Poll watchers are not new or tyrannical.

    Davethulhu (f7bb9b) — 10/1/2020 @ 2:28 pm

    The 4th criteria specifically protects sanctuary cities.
    The first criteria will be what is used to block the “anarchist jurisdictions” order should Trump try to enforce it.

    There’s a problem with tense here:

    The first criteria will be what is used to block the “anarchist jurisdictions” order should Trump try to enforce it.

    The conditions were already unambiguously established so that recipients can knowingly accept or reject them. We’re talking about funds already allocated and being spent by these jurisdictions. More importantly, Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 says “The Congress shall have Power To”. No one is saying that Congress couldn’t fund these programs. The issue now is whether the Executive can decide whether the jusridiction is complying with the conditions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  115. 115, definitely in the “worth catching it from” category, comorbidities be damned.

    urbanleftbehind (2929f4)

  116. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/1/2020 @ 3:02 pm

    Why anybody cares what a cartoonist thinks is beyond me. The same goes for Hollywood people.

    He’s a successful person which speaks to his intelligence. I don’t genarally agree with him but he makes well thought out arguments so I can evaluate his arguments for myself. I don’t generally “agree” with Times123 for example but I’d rather have a discussion with than a lot of people I “agree” with.

    Hollywood people are a vaguer group. Actors? They are payed to play make beleive. Directors, writers, and a variety of other people actually had to master an honest skill. That doesn’t mean they are experts on everything, just consider the source.

    frosty (f27e97)

  117. Hicks likely has been tested for a lot of “viruses” in her time.

    More miles on her than the Brooklyn Bridge.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. One of the most respected and popular professors at BYU (my alma mater) has written a very thoughtful letter regarding the choice between Trump and Biden. This man was the co-creator of BYU’s American Heritage course, which was mandatory for every student when I attended. Because it was mandatory, the classes were huge. Roughly a thousand students sat in the auditorium.

    It was a great class, and instilled in me a love of the Founders and our democratic republic. My instructor for the course was the other co-creator, but on an occasion or two I would attend this guy’s lecture instead.

    This professor also taught a class on the history of San Francisco. I regret never taking that class; I’m sure it would have enhanced my appreciation of the Bay Area when I lived there.

    Anyway, his letter carries weight with me, and makes me question how I should vote. He wrote the letter to Mormons in Arizona. (Note: “First Presidency” refers to the top leaders of the church.)
    It has created a firestorm on cougarboard.com, a site for BYU sports and many other topics, which I frequent just as much as this blog.

    Here it is:

    https://saveourelection.org/letter-to-arizona-mormons/?fbclid=IwAR3BuTX2BE-Y3j-5awdy1XmGXTRI_gsrrOyxiAVc_gz3gSRqTs0zLvdJ8no

    The link or website is fragile, so I will provide the text here:

    Dear Sister or Brother,

    My name is Prof. Frank W. Fox. I taught American History at Brigham Young University until my retirement in 2006, and, along with my colleague Clayne Pope, created the university’s American Heritage Program under the guidance of the First Presidency. Some of you may have been my students. I also wrote a biography of President J. Reuben Clark, also under the direction of the First Presidency.

    Both of these experiences grew out of my love for our country and my lifelong devotion to American ideals. For those same reasons, I am writing this letter to share with you my deep concern about the approaching election. Although I am a conservative Republican, I will not be voting for Donald Trump in November. I would like to explain why.

    For me, the choice is not between Republican or Democratic policies, nor between Liberal or Conservative principles. It is a choice growing out of the very nature and being of our democracy—which is far more fragile than most Americans realize. Democracy depends on more than party preferences or individual interests, it depends on critical qualities of mind and spirit. Our Founding Fathers knew this profound truth in the marrow of their bones.

    I have the gravest misgivings about certain of those qualities of mind and spirit. I would like to set down a few of these for your consideration.

    First, there is the matter of truth-telling. No President of the United States can make falsehood a common, daily practice. No free government can stand on a foundation of lies. False-speaking in the public square will destroy the soul of America as surely as it destroyed the souls of Italy and Germany before World War II. The first requirement of any would-be dictator is the ability to lie convincingly, and the first attribute of a people he intends to enslave is their willingness to believe his lies.

    Second, Mr. Trump has preached fear and divisiveness among the American people, then used these raw emotions to create a mindless, militant personal following. With this private army, which believes every word he utters, he holds the Republicans of both houses under his thumb—some of them in sheer terror— thus destroying the Constitution’s single most important check and balance. This is precisely how democracies have met their end from ancient times to the present.

    Third, in a democracy no one can be above the law, not even the President.

    Mr. Trump seems to reject this crucial principle. He has violated the laws of the United States in large ways and small ones, often with disastrous results. People have gone to prison for the violations he instigated—one of them cynically pardoned by himself! He was impeached for violating the law and would have been convicted if Senators had been free to vote their consciences.

    Fourth, no American patriot can maintain an intimate, secret, and possibly dependent relationship with a foreign adversary. It is absolutely unthinkable. There is overwhelming evidence that our President does in fact have such a relationship with Vladimir Putin, and that this relationship has resulted in the undermining of our most sacred institution, free elections. It is so well documented that it is virtually beyond question.

    Finally, no President in our history has been guilty of shirking the Chief Executive’s single most important responsibility—that of protecting the people. President Trump’s handing of the COVID pandemic cannot be seen in any other light than a callous disregard for the safety of the American people in the sole interest of furthering his own political advantage. I have studied his every move in this regard, and I have listened to his every excuse. None of them works.

    These things are not “just politics.” They are not incidental and harmless. They are not “fake news.” They are beyond all constitutional limits and outside of all historical precedent. I can scroll through every President from George Washington to Barrack Obama without finding a single instance (including Watergate) of misconduct on this scale.

    The death of every democracy begins with a stolen election. The tyrant simply rejects the voice of the people and turns instead to power for its own sake— always claiming that the election was “rigged.” If he cannot win legitimately, he will win by any means available to him, and then just keep right on “winning.” That was what happened to Putin’s Russia.

    One final comment. It was recently reported that Vice President Pence, in visiting Arizona, intimated that the General Authorities of the LDS Church were quietly supporting the President. I will bet my eternal salvation against that. The values of patriotism, truthfulness, justice, honor, decency and respect for the law are deeply ingrained in LDS culture. Few church members in full possession of the facts would condone what I have described above.

    For these and other reasons, my vote is going to Joe Biden in this election—for his balance, for his wisdom, for his humanity, and more than anything else, for his power to heal. Our country is sorely in need of that.

    If any of this touches your heart, please help me to spread this vitally important message. The future of our democracy depends on it.

    Sincerely,

    Frank W. Fox

    norcal (a5428a)

  119. @107. Disney chief Bob Iger saw his compensation for 2019 drop to $47.5 million, a 28% decline from his 2018 pay package.

    Try not to luh– or care.

    Boo-f-cking-hoo.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. ^luh= laugh

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. @107. American Airlines paid its CEO Doug Parker nearly $12 million [in 2019.]

    Try not to laugh– or care.

    Boo-f-cking-hoo.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. @106.Reagan was a great Governor and President.

    Then you have to adore Trump.

    He is a Reagan Creation.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. @103. What did the Pentagon Papers tell him, Kevin?

    What did they tell the American people Kevin?

    Why did he lie, Kevin? The same reason LBJ did. Listen to the tapes. All of them.

    Nixon knew. And he expanded the war [Cambodia/Laos.] Declare victory and leave. 28,000 dead Americans on his watch would agreed. Apologists for Nixon need to get an appointment with Biden’s brain surgeon.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. Frosty @117-
    The issue now is whether the Executive can decide whether the jusridiction is complying with the conditions.

    In general, the Executive Branch cannot add conditions to federal programs that Congress hasn’t included in the law, nor can the Federal government commandeer state authorities to enforce federal law.

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  125. RR would be appalled by Trump.

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  126. And I don’t have to do anything.

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  127. Great letter, norcal.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Covid 19 won the debate trump is getting retested first test ?

    asset (7cf490)

  129. Trump is to Reagan what Stormy Daniels is to John Wayne.

    nk (1d9030)

  130. @26. Postecript: No one would trust us. Even leaving as we did 5 years later harmed our credibility. Doing it then would have left millions who trusted us to die bloody deaths. But I guess they don’t count if they aren’t Americans.

    Usually I can take your inanity in stride, but this is just a horrific argument. I comes as not surprise that you are still supporting Trump though, as his an analysis of things is pretty much on par with yours.

    “Trust” has nothing to do with it. Especially from Nixon.

    And no, Kevin, I support the neutering the modern ideological conservative movement. Either fella is a win/win.

    Glorious. The Big Dick: not so glorious. It’s ‘perfectly clear’ you’ve never listened to the tapes.

    Make that appointment.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. Norcal @121-

    That was beautiful.

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  132. 132.Trump is to Reagan what Stormy Daniels is to John Wayne.

    Marion Morrison is a tad effeminate, nk.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. That waspoppycock tell us the magic they would have used to keep the bug out. Masks we were explicitly told not to use them.

    You morons were manipulating yourself over vindmans little temper tantrum, really on theo adhanom xis meat puppet,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  134. Breaking- CNN’s Don Lemon is having an on-air-orgasm: Trump has tweeted he and Melania they are now in self-quarantine.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. Jfk had diem killed, that was a clever move wasnt it, because they were listening to dien who in turm bought the story from a vietcong agent (doesnt that sound familiar)

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  136. @138.JFK didn’t have the Pentagon Papers in hand.

    LBJ and The Big Dick did. They knew. They slaughtered hundreds of thousands and squandered billion in national treasure.

    For nothing.

    There’s not enough urine in Yorba Linda, CA or Stonewall, Tx., to soak into their graves.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. Secretly recorded tapes show Melania Trump’s frustration at criticism for family separation policy and her bashing of Christmas decorations

    First Lady Melania Trump was secretly recorded in the summer of 2018 expressing her frustration at being criticized for her husband’s policy of separating families who illegally crossed the southern border while at the same time needing to perform traditional first lady duties, such as preparing for Christmas.

    “They say I’m complicit. I’m the same like him, I support him. I don’t say enough I don’t do enough where I am,” she said in a tape secretly recorded by Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, a former friend and senior adviser to the first lady who wrote a book about their relationship, “Melania and Me.”

    The tapes were played exclusively on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360″ on Thursday night and were recorded by Wolkoff after she left the White House.

    “I’m working … my a** off on the Christmas stuff, that you know, who gives a f*** about the Christmas stuff and decorations? But I need to do it, right?”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  138. @121: For these and other reasons, my vote is going to Joe Biden in this election—for his balance, for his wisdom, for his humanity, and more than anything else, for his power to heal.

    Bwahahaha!!!

    Anyone who really thinks this was going to vote for Biden even if he ran against Honest Abe. My guess is Prof Fox never voted for a Republican in his life.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b60f3)

  139. @14o. “I’m working … my a** off on the Christmas stuff, that you know, who gives a f*** about the Christmas stuff and decorations? But I need to do it, right?”

    So? She’s right.

    Who gives a damn about the Xmas claptrap. And she gets help with it. My own father hated having to haul the crap out of the attic and putting it up the stringing the damn lights. Then having to take them all down a month later. He finally bought an artificial tree and left it up in the corner of the room all year, threw a cover over it 11 months of the year and only plugged it in in December.

    Lke father’like son: don’t put up any of that junk at all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. October is going to be one ugly month. With bankruptcy and jail in his prospects, Trump will be lashing out like a scorpion with sunstroke and his worshipers and parasites will be following suit.

    nk (1d9030)

  141. @106.Reagan was a great Governor and President.

    Then you have to adore Trump.

    He is a Reagan Creation.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/1/2020 @ 7:21 pm

    The idea of Trump he sells, sure, that’s fair. Successful tychoon, maybe it’ll trickle down, but he doesn’t really care cause he’s so tough, and he’s all about telling it like it is on the world stage.

    The Trump that really exists? The whiner who lives in government housing, hasn’t earned a nickel in 15 years, has five kids with three women not counting prostitutes, and has spent almost his whole live praising Hillary, Schumer, Pelosi?

    Probably not what Reagan ever had in mind for anyone. Basically Reagan’s opposite. Trump supporters who didn’t also support Clinton are lying to themselves about one of the two.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  142. @130 and @134

    Thanks!

    norcal (a5428a)

  143. Trump supporters who didn’t also support Clinton are lying to themselves about one of the two.

    They’re lying about both of them. Clinton was genuinely smart, very smart, educated (Rhodes scholar), and competent. He ground Russia’s face into the dirt when it was still weak and eliminated the budget deficit, while the orange is doing his best to make Russia great again and bankrupt America.

    nk (1d9030)

  144. Kevin M, at 103: i’m sure abandoning the Kurds in Syria didn’t hurt our credibility at all, right? Never mind that they’d been fighting along side us.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  145. @141 I took his course. It was all about how the Founding made a break from a world history that was replete with tyranny. It focused on the Constitution, freedom, public virtue, capitalism, and free markets.

    I have no doubt that he is telling the truth about being a conservative Republican.

    You make many salient comments, bnp, but I disagree with you on this one.

    norcal (a5428a)

  146. Who gave a blank check to yeltsin, who empowered the oligarchs discrediting the yabloko liberals its a wonder the communists didnt come back, on whose watch was ukraine invaded whose responze was send them food rations and medical supplies.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  147. Conversely who had to rebuild the military after obama slashed it, who sent offensive weapons to ukraine and confronted mercs on the syrian plain, and bombed bases where russian aircraft were.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  148. he does not love mr. president donald trump, mr. norcal

    and is it not written that if a person speaks with the tongues of men and angels

    and has faith to move mountains

    and gives a great education to his students

    and does not love mr. president donald trump

    he is a leftist globalist open borders green new dealer

    nk (1d9030)

  149. BTW, I thought Hope Hicks had ditched the orange.

    nk (1d9030)

  150. nk,

    I would love to have a beer with you sometime. I have a feeling my stomach muscles would be quite sore afterwards!

    norcal (a5428a)

  151. By the way, nk, I have told your elevator joke a couple of times, to great effect.

    norcal (a5428a)

  152. Parscale Told Friends He Was Under Investigation
    Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale told friends he was under federal investigation days before his weekend meltdown for which he was involuntarily hospitalized, Business Insider reports.

    Rip Murdock (631d7a)

  153. I hope Ms. Hicks has a quick and complete recovery, but this is karma after seeing the anti-mask cavalier attitude in the WH toward CV19.
    This may sound harsh, and I may have said it here before, but I actually want Trump to get the virus and to feel the symptoms semi-harshly, and then survive. He’s such a selfish person, and since everything is about him, contracting CV19 is probably the only way he’ll feel any empathy toward the people afflicted. Maybe then he’ll take the virus seriously and get with a real plan.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  154. They’re lying about both of them. Clinton was genuinely smart, very smart, educated (Rhodes scholar), and competent. He ground Russia’s face into the dirt when it was still weak and eliminated the budget deficit, while the orange is doing his best to make Russia great again and bankrupt America.

    nk (1d9030) — 10/1/2020 @ 8:40 pm

    Sounds true to me. Clinton was at minimum competent. Not perfect obviously, but he was trying to do his job well. He did his homework, he was intelligent, had some kind of self-awareness.

    How many thought Clinton was sleazy and wound up voting for Trump?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  155. If Biden were smart, he would get out as much as possible (while practicing social distancing) while Trump is stuck in quarantine, unable to go out, stuck in his basement as it were.
    This is indeed karma.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  156. Το κακο σκυλι δεν ψοφαει.

    nk (1d9030)

  157. Shouldn’t he turn the Presidency over to Pence while he’s in quarantine?

    (No, I am not buying you a new keyboard.)

    nk (1d9030)

  158. It was “bad dog does not die” that did my keyboard, not the thing about the 25th Amendment.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  159. BREAKING- PRESIDENT TRUMP AND FIRST LADY TESTS POSITIVE FOR COVID-19.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. Biden better get tested- he was in the room w/Donald.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. Watch the markets tomorrow…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. Karma squared and then cubed.
    MSNBC is reporting that President Trump and the First Lady have both tested positive.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  163. Biden had better get tested PDQ. He already is exhibiting an odd cough.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  164. At least Biden will know who to blame.

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  165. Well, that should sew up the sympathy vote for Trump.

    No more ‘weep with me for Beau,’ eh, JoeyBee?.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. Karma squared and then cubed.

    Try to keep your skivvies on, Montagu. Maybe go out and buy a lottery ticket, while you’re at it.

    Yeah maybe karma, or it could be an intentional act — in which case, spare us any hero talk.

    beer ‘n pretzels (9bc3ad)

  167. I don’t think Trump will get much sympathy.

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  168. @167. Backwards- Biden has been coughing for days at his events; Trump will blame Biden- who has publicly balked at getting tested.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  169. @166

    He’s had that cough a while now. Invoked when he “loses that line”.

    Matador (0284e8)

  170. @170. Our CIC has risked his very life to be with Americans while Biden hid and bunkered down.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  171. Hope, Donald, Melania… hmmmm… there may be a ‘Stormy’ threesome going on there.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. Our CIC has risked his very life to be with Americans…..

    And look what it got him. But then again, “it’s just like the flu.”

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  173. @175. So says Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh. Fox is bewildered; the Hannity spin is hilarious ‘ I was tested three times this week’… ‘we’re on the back end of it.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. But then again, “it’s just like the flu.”

    After he pulls through, against the wishes of many here, he’ll be ramming that down your throat.

    beer ‘n pretzels (2c878c)

  175. “The President is strong, healthy and fit.” – “Doctor” Sean Hannity.

    Watch the markets on Friday.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  176. What about Barron?

    Now I truly feel sorry… for Melania.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. Go back and review the debate visuals– did Trump look a little under the weather?

    Thought he was a tad ‘grumpy’ on stage but didn’t mention it during the pie fight s the custard pies flew– but he didn’t look tip-top in retrospect. Go back and look at it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  178. Careful what you wish for, Montagu.

    He may just kick its tail. Then it’ll be “See I told you so”, exploding the heads of every BurnLootMurder, Democrat, RINO and NeverTrumper on the planet. Every state that is even close now will turn your “Biden +10″ into four more years of butthurt for the offended.

    Of course, he’d be impeached for colluding with Dante to save his skin. And he’d win that one, too.

    Matador (0284e8)

  179. After he pulls through, against the wishes of many here, he’ll be ramming that down your throat.

    I wish the Trumps a quick and speedy recovery. But given his age and obesity, he is in a high risk group, despite Dr. Hannity’s opinion.

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  180. @182 Don’t forget his purported four hours of sleep per night.

    norcal (a5428a)

  181. Yeah maybe karma, or it could be an intentional act — in which case, spare us any hero talk.

    I doubt it was intentional because I doubt Ms. Hicks is a Typhoid Mary sleeper agent for Biden or Xi or Khameini.
    I have no sympathy for Trump because he brought this on himself through his stupidity and carelessness, but I do hope he has a full recovery, eventually.
    I extend full and sincere sympathies to First Hostage, Melania Trump, that she has a quick and complete recovery, and I hope Barron steered clear of it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  182. Careful what you wish for, Montagu. He may just kick its tail.

    But that wasn’t what I was wishing for, Matador.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  183. Scott Atlas to the rescue, right? Maybe an MRI will inject enough stuff into his body to kill the virus.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  184. @186. More likely Mr. Clean— w/a Diet Coke chaser.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  185. My best salesman is 62 years old. He and his 95 year old dad got it at roughly the same time.

    Took the 62 year old a little while longer to overcome it, due to other health conditions. His dad was better in a little less than three weeks. And he was in a nursing hoem in Lehigh Valley PA where the nursing homes were a freaking disaster.

    Even the high risk group isn’t one-size-fits-all.

    Matador (0284e8)

  186. If you wrote a script on this presidency, Hollywood wouldn’t buy it– just too unbelievable.

    Now he is Casablanca mode. They need an ending…

    Nobody would wish it, but always believed the only way this story should end is if our Captain is found face down in office, in a bowl full of German chocolate cake between two scoops of melting Dolly Madison vanilla.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  187. I actually want Trump to get the virus and to feel the symptoms semi-harshly

    You want him to get it and feel the pain. Your caveat and protestation not withstanding, the invocation of Karma, not once, but twice and cubed gives you away.

    Even to take you at your word, which your Trump hating friends here will, I said Trump may kick its tail, he may not feel the justice for which you pine.

    Will you be happy, then, that another human being avoided that pain? Will you post your joy for all to see?

    Matador (0284e8)

  188. Trump tweets tonight after learning he is really is a sick-o: ‘we will get through this together.’

    We??????

    “Son, you’re on your own.” – Reverend Johnson [Liam Dunn] ‘Blazing Saddles’ 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  189. Dana, your inability or unwillingness to asses your support of any Trump policies makes your claim that you don’t hate him suspect. Apparently his policies are irrelevant to your support or opposition, indicating you may have a blind spot.

    1DaveMac (b2b831)

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