Patterico's Pontifications

10/1/2020

BREAKING: Trump Tests Positive for COVID-19

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:20 pm



UPDATE:

UPDATE x2:

UPDATE x3: It is what it is.

UPDATE x4:

UPDATE x5: Quite a list.

374 Responses to “BREAKING: Trump Tests Positive for COVID-19”

  1. You wanted an October surprise, you got it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. UPDATE:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  3. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    norcal (a5428a)

  4. UPDATE x2:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. Biden’s been exhibiting an odd cough for several days now at some of his gatherings on camera- Trump will blame Biden for exposing Hicks and himself to Covid for not wearing a mask at the debate. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. @4 I had forgotten about that despicable comment concerning Romney. Thanks, Pat.

    norcal (a5428a)

  7. Now Plagiarist JoeyBee ha a legitimate excuse tonot show up to debate Trump. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. President Mike Pence.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  9. Just trying it out to see how it sounds.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  10. Fox is bewildered; the Hannity phone-in spin was hilarious ‘I was tested three times this week’… ‘we’re on the back end of it.’ ‘The President is strong, healthy and fit.” – “Doctor” Sean Hannity.

    Nearly choked with laughter on iced coffee when he said that.

    See what the markets do on Friday reacting to this news.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. @9. JVW: Pence works closely w/Hope Hicks, you know.

    President Nancy Pelosi… try than on for size.

    ‘Shrinkage!’ George Costanza

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. @10 I would think the possibility/probability of a Biden win would already be baked in to the markets.

    norcal (a5428a)

  13. @11 It shrinks?

    norcal (a5428a)

  14. President Mike Pence.

    How does a new election even work if voting has been going on for weeks?

    You know, if it came to that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  15. I wonder if this is one of those moments like 9/11 where I’ll always remember what I was doing when I heard the news.

    norcal (a5428a)

  16. Yikes.

    Leaving aside the political implications, a couple of thoughts:

    * the President of the United States has tested positive for a disease that has killed approximately 5 out of every 1000 confirmed cases. He is old enough to be in a high risk group, and he’s seriously obese, which increases his risk even greater. This is a bad thing for America, no matter who the President is.

    * As much as I dislike the man, everything i’ve heard about serious cases of this is that they are effectively torture, and the health impacts can last for months. I hope Trump’s case turns out to be mild, and that he is spared the misery of a serious case.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  17. “Biden’s been exhibiting an odd cough for several days now at some of his gatherings on camera- Trump will blame Biden for exposing Hicks and himself to Covid for not wearing a mask at the debate. ”

    He already blamed the troops:

    “It is very, very hard when you are with people from the military, and they come over to you and they want to hug you and kiss you because we really have done a good job for them. You get close, and things happen.”

    Davethulhu (47d7cb)

  18. President Mike Pence.

    How does a new election even work if voting has been going on for weeks?

    Pence could blame his loss on Trump.

    norcal (a5428a)

  19. Patterico, some friends and I were speculating about that after the Hope Hicks announcement.

    [a] we can’t organize a new election. It’s too late. The electors have to be appointed in December.

    [b] so the election proceeds as planned. If Trump dies, I assume that all states will still appoint Trump’s slate of electors if he wins, and those electors will vote for Pence.

    [c] It might effect voting — Trump die hards might not vote for Pence, if they haven’t voted before Trump dies. But on the other hand, maybe there’s a sympathy vote, particularly if prominent Democrats are goulish about it.

    [d] The real hard case comes if Trump and Pence both die. At that point the electors are basically unpledged, and who knows what happens? It happened once before — Greeley died in 1872 after the election and before the electors voted — and the electors split.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  20. @16 His four hours of sleep per night, along with the stress of the job, certainly can’t help.

    norcal (a5428a)

  21. Interesting analysis, aphrael.

    Doesn’t sound like Pence has been traveling with Hope Hicks lately. No word on whether he’s been around Trump much lately.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  22. I have full sympathies for First Hostage Melania. It’s her husband’s fault.
    I want no sympathies for Trump. He had this coming through his own stupidity and carelessness and ignorance and thick-headedness, and I don’t want Trump to get a sympathy boost in the polls for contracting a virus he never took seriously. I do hope he has a full recovery, in time.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  23. President Pence won’t happen unless Trump is on a ventilator, and I doubt it’ll get that far.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  24. He already blamed the troops

    He can simply blame the fact that he’s president, and cannot hide in a bunker for months on end. Or, does that take the glee out of it?

    He’ll recover, then we can ponder the relative abilities of each candidate to handle future exposure which, again, is highly likely for whoever wins the job.

    beer ‘n pretzels (675fb4)

  25. Was he on an HCQ regimen to prevent acquiring the disease? We must demand the truth.

    If he survives, no more masks for him.

    There is almost zero chance he acts as a sympathetic figure, despite this enormous opportunity to show vulnerability and engender massive good wishes and support.

    Nice timing on the CNN attack of FLOTUS. Everyone who was behind that effort, beginning with Anderson Cooper, can kiss my a$$. She did not deserve, nor merit, that betrayal and hit job.

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  26. @22.He had this coming through his own stupidity and carelessness and ignorance and thick-headedness

    Working on your why-Biden-lost-analysis for posting already, eh, Paul? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    norcal (a5428a) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:27 pm

    Well, I wouldn’t even wish it on someone who would post what you did.

    Matador (0284e8)

  28. Who was talking about Biden and pine boxes? Huh? Who? There’s more than one kind of jinx.

    I did not wish this for Trump. I would not wish it on anyone.

    nk (1d9030)

  29. @21. But how many people working w/Hicks have interacted w/Pence in the past week… the contact chain is going to be a nightmare for this one. And the Biden people exposed in Cleveland to Trump people in the audience- wheemask wear was spotty- and backstage, are going to have to be traced as well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. @27 See Trump’s sarcastic comment about Romney in comment 4. “Instant karma” is a phrase for a reason.

    norcal (a5428a)

  31. Who was talking about Biden and pine boxes?

    Not me. If you can find it, I’ll apologize.

    Matador (0284e8)

  32. @28. He’s another day closer; has an odd cough and the ‘old man shuffle’ as is… and wasn’t wearing a mask on stage in Cleveland- was he.

    “The clock is running!” – John Glenn, 2/20/62

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. Working on your why-Biden-lost-analysis for posting already, eh, Paul?

    I stopped making predictions four years ago, DCSCA, when Trump was nominated.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  34. Biden now has a perfect excuse to stay in his basement. I bet that is exactly what he does.

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  35. Yikes.

    Leaving aside the political implications, a couple of thoughts:

    * the President of the United States has tested positive for a disease that has killed approximately 5 out of every 1000 confirmed cases. He is old enough to be in a high risk group, and he’s seriously obese, which increases his risk even greater. This is a bad thing for America, no matter who the President is.

    It’s difficult to reach a judgment as to whether it’s bad for America *without* considering the political implications, no?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  36. Who was talking about Biden and pine boxes? Huh? Who? There’s more than one kind of jinx.

    nk (1d9030) — 10/1/2020 @ 10:59 pm

    If DCSCA has that kind of power I’ve got some serious re-evaluating to do.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  37. Biden now has a perfect excuse to stay in his basement. I bet that is exactly what he does.

    Biden should do the opposite and hit the campaign trail every day, to show America that it’s okay to go out if you wear a mask and practice social distancing. It would be a perfect contrast, Biden going out among the people (but not too close) and Trump stuck in his basement until the COVID runs its course. It couldn’t be more perfect symbolism.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  38. @35 Hand in hand, Pat.

    norcal (a5428a)

  39. @3. Nah. I was sicker than hell in February – horrid cough for the whole month, fever, chills, listed nearly 5 weeks–thought it might have been flu but could likely have been this and not known it back then -so I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.

    But flaunting not wearing the mask is karma– though now they’re making the excuse that Hicks was a big mask wearer.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. Fox reporting stock futures down 400 points already.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. @33. I’ll give you that one. Nobody expected him to win.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. Quote:

    Biden’s vision for America’s future is behind all of us. Ahead for him is a pine box.

    Can’t blame Reagan for that.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  43. Well, Ann Coulter did.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. @37 Paul – I agree with your assessment. I just don’t think they will go there.

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  45. also: given that the progression of covid19 is often “i’m sick but ok it’s not a big deal i’m functioning FUCK I CAN’T STAND UP OR WALK”, in the matter of a few minutes, it’s easy to imagine, (especially given trump’s personality) a situation where trump doesn’t execute a document transferring power prior to being hospitalized or intubated. i *really* hope there’s a plan in place for the cabinet to invoke the 25th in that scenario.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  46. 42. Sounds better an better every time. And it’s true– and a day closer.

    Betch he’ still asleep and not been awakened and told this news–or even tested for Covid.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. Patterico, at 35: my point is that having a chief executive who is suffering from a serious illness that has a substantially high risk of complications *including neurological ones* is dangerous for the country, no matter who the chief executive is.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  48. What are the chances Biden got behind Hope for a sniff on Tuesday?

    norcal (a5428a)

  49. Biden’s gonna try to Dewey it.

    Plan for a President Harris.

    Winning!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. @48 President Pence sounds a lot better than President Harris.

    norcal (a5428a)

  51. “I don’t take any responsibility at all.”
    –Donald J. Trump, 3/14/2020

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  52. @47. you’re not half-kidding: go back and review the CSPAN pans across the audience an you’ll seethe level and exposure potential just in the crowd.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. @44. You’re probably right, Ed. It’s too bad Biden won’t listen to me, some pseudonym on the internet.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  54. @50. He may be taking Clorox by noon, instead. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. DCSCA — which is of course why there should have been no audience, and why neither candidate should be holding public rallies.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  56. @46. Dangerous? Wilson was stroked out; FDR had polio; JFK was on perpetual pain killers; Nixon on Chivas Regal, cottage cheese and ketchup… Trump’s got access to the best medical care on the planet so not to worry. JoeyBee– well, he’s got his gov’t health plan– and Obamacare.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. @54. Agreed. But there’s no satisfying the appetite of the power hungry.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. That is really bizarre. Somebody told me the virus doesn’t affect anybody.

    But given that they’ve surely detected it at an extremely early stage (for *him* they have made sure everyone is tested with zero turnaround time), and he will have the best medical care on the planet (unless he ignores what the doctors tell him, as he has for months…), I think there’s a 100% chance he survives to crow that he was right all along and it’s not even as bad as the flu

    Dave (1bb933)

  59. Sean Hannity called in t his network tonight and said, “The President is strong, healthy and fit.”

    A large percentage of Fox viewers will believe that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Lorne Michaels has better get his scribes working PDQ for Saturday night rewrites.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. Has Trump heard The Tidy Bowl Man recommends the blue tablets as suppositories for Covid?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Trump is now the most famous person to test positive for Covid-19. Nobody really famous has died from the virus.

    norcal (a5428a)

  63. @60 You are one naughty boy, DCSCA. :)

    norcal (a5428a)

  64. Came here to say ‘couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy,’ but I see that field has been plowed.

    In the competition that has been 2020, October just ripped one into the right field bleachers.

    Who had ‘Trump gets covid a month before the election’ on their bingo card?

    Glenn Wyant (a56320)

  65. I would think the possibility/probability of a Biden win would already be baked in to the markets.

    It has been. Amazon, for one, would be a Trump target if he won re-election, and it set all-time highs recently. OTOH, there is the issue of Biden’s pledge to increase capital gains taxes to 40% for the rich (who drive the markets).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. @63 You’re right. 2020 – The Year From Hell.

    norcal (a5428a)

  67. How does a new election even work if voting has been going on for weeks?

    Let me mention again how much I detest early voting, and this is reason #1. As much as possible, we should all go to the polls on the same day with the same information. I see no reason to make voting easy — there should be some resolve demonstrated.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Since Trump was diagnosed early and since he has the best doctors in the world at his fingertips, I’m guessing that he’s not going to experience major symptoms. If anything, the recovery will happen fairly quickly. There are only two factors that could complicate his recovery: He’s 74, and he’s fat. Pence will just have to wait.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  69. Kevin M —- if Trump tested positive today, given normal lags between positive test and hospitalization/death, were he to die from it, it likely wouldn’t be before ~Oct 14, and might even be later. At which point ballots simply could not be reprinted.

    The timing of this would fuxxor the election even without early voting.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  70. Covid kills in many ways. If it gets into the lungs solidly, it then starts entering other organs — heart, brain, blood, liver. One of the people I knew who died was recovering and was taken off respirator. Then he stroked out. It happens.

    Trump is in poor shape, clearly hypertensive, might not take his meds, might not think he NEEDS meds. I’d say he was high-risk. If he goes on a respirator, most respirator cases die.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. @64 I’m not rich, but I would suffer from raising capital gains taxes to income tax levels. It’s pulling the rug out from under me, because I invested with the understanding that the capital gains tax would be lower than the income tax.

    The moral of the story is “don’t be frugal for the purpose of investing”. Just spend what you make, and live paycheck-to-paycheck. Then you can be a sob story for the MSM whenever a Republican is the President. And, you have a claim on the government whenever you can’t make ends meet. Lefties love that kind of stuff.

    norcal (a5428a)

  72. At which point ballots simply could not be reprinted.

    You can print literally anything in a month. It’s kinda old tech. Of course, that might take more organizational skill than is found in county bureaucracies.

    If nothing else, you can post a sign that says “A vote for Trump is a vote for ____” and there is no reason it has to be Pence. I believe the RNC chooses a replacement candidate.

    And the electors can vote for whomever they damn well please.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. If you want to know a real worst case scenario for the GOP, it’s when Ms. Hicks gave Pence a big fat smooch a few days ago, thus giving the COVID to the VP, and that both Trump and Pence have underlying conditions that we didn’t know about, the result being that both Trump and Pence are on ventilators and incapacitated. This means Pelosi is sworn in as president indefinitely and perhaps until inauguration, when Biden is sworn in. It also means Amy Coney Barrett would not be confirmed because Interim President Pelosi would have withdrawn her nomination.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  74. There’s no need to reprint any ballot.

    As everyone should understand, given that we’ve been talking it to death, people are voting for electors, and they’ll be voting for the same electors even if Trump, Pence, Biden and Harris all keel over tomorrow.

    Dave (1bb933)

  75. 61.Trump is now the most famous person to test positive for Covid-19.

    You might get an argument on that from Tom Hanks.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. Pence was social-distancing from women before it was cool…

    Dave (1bb933)

  77. >And the electors can vote for whomever they damn well please.

    not all of them. many states have rules that bind them to the state’s popular vote, and the supreme court upheld those rules last term.

    > You can print literally anything in a month.

    ahh, but if Trump were to die on (say) Oct. 14, the Republicans name a new candidate the next day and then certify it to all the states by COB on the 16th, we’re talking two and a half weeks.

    Meanwhile, federal law requires that overseas military be sent ballots. Can the ballots get there and back in time?

    The state level logistical operations are planned around a certain schedule, and they are not set up to deal with that schedule being shattered.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  78. Trump and Hicks may have been diagnosed before the debate. The WH doctor likely tests daily, especially with campaign events/travel and meetings, and people are often asymptomatic in the early stages. Add in the odd side hug between Trump and Melania, the way Trump yelled at Biden instead of talked to the camera, and Trump’s willingness to do almost anything to win. I could dream up a great conspiracy theory.

    DRJ (aede82)

  79. > This means Pelosi is sworn in as president indefinitely and perhaps until inauguration, when Biden is sworn in. It also means Amy Coney Barrett would not be confirmed because Interim President Pelosi would have withdrawn her nomination.

    This almost certainly requires her to then resign as a Congressperson, which — if it continued until inauguration — would mean there’s a vacancy in the new Congress. Although I suppose Newsom could reappoint her, but it’s far from guaranteed.

    I don’t support the Senate voting on the nomination in the first place, but I would oppose Pelosi withdrawing it —- I think it’s pretty important to long-term political stability that temporary 25th AM placeholders not make major policy changes while they’re in office.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  80. @75 :) In stark contrast to Biden.

    norcal (a5428a)

  81. Impeachment didn’t stop him; Covid won’t kill him; Scandals don’t embarrass him; Diet Coke fuels him… and he could shoot anybody on Fifth Avenue and not lose any supporters.

    What is his kryptonite?!

    This presidency is going to make one helluva movie.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. not all of them. many states have rules that bind them to the state’s popular vote, and the supreme court upheld those rules last term.

    Not when the candidate is dead, and not when the party has chosen a replacement. I’m pretty sure that George Wallace had to use stand-in running mates in 1968, and they put signs up at polling places saying that a vote for Wallace-_____ was a vote for Wallace-LeMay. This mattered in the South.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  83. I don’t support the Senate voting on the nomination in the first place, but I would oppose Pelosi withdrawing it —- I think it’s pretty important to long-term political stability that temporary 25th AM placeholders not make major policy changes while they’re in office.

    “But the Democrats Republicans would do it!”

    Dave (1bb933)

  84. Although I suppose Newsom could reappoint her, but it’s far from guaranteed.

    All House members must be elected. They will not seat an appointed member.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. @77. You may be right on that.

    He didn’t seem to be in ‘tip-top’ form– almost distracted slightly; irritated- noticed it but it seemed insignificant at the time given the intensity of the pie fight that bloomed and overtook the event.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. It would be even more karma if some military loser/sucker gave it to Hicks who gave it to Trump.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  87. Rule 9 of The Rules of the Republican Party provides guidance on how to fill presidential and vice presidential vacancies.

    It says that the Republican National Committee (RNC) is authorized to select the new candidate by majority vote or reconvening the national convention to fill the vacancy. In the former process, the three RNC members from each state—comprised of a state chair, a national committeeman, and a national committeewoman—would be able to cast the same number of votes as the entire delegation from that state to the convention

    https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee,_2020

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. Dave — there will be those who say that, for sure. I’m not one of them.

    The argument which would be more persuasive to me would be one along the lines of: there’s a real risk of a court-packing scheme, particularly if Pelosi is replaced as speaker by a firebrand, and a court-packing scheme (if successful) would do serious damage to the republic. Because the court-packing scheme would do more damage than a 25thAM placeholder revoking a nomination, she should revoke the nomination to stave off the court-packing scheme.

    I’m not convinced that i’d buy the argument — the structural risk of court-packing is bad, but so is the structural risk of unreliable 25th amendment placeholders — and i’m not sure how to balance them.

    But that’s been true the entirety of this administration: how do we know when the cure is worse than the disease?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  89. Chris Wallace had better get tested.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. Then there is the cynical: Trump is faking this to gain sympathy, and to seem to be sharing the pain of Covid. Since I don’t trust his doctors to tell me the day of the week, I wouldn’t be surprised. I would be surprised if they could keep in a secret though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. I don’t support the Senate voting on the nomination in the first place, but I would oppose Pelosi withdrawing it —- I think it’s pretty important to long-term political stability that temporary 25th AM placeholders not make major policy changes while they’re in office.

    That would be the sensible thing, aphrael, and I agree, but these aren’t sensible times. But we’re just spitballing here.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  92. Meanwhile, Melania is on tape bitching about having to decorate the WH and saying “Who gives a f*ck about the Christmas stuff?”

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. Rick Hasen’s analysis: https://electionlawblog.org/?p=116098

    aphrael (4c4719)

  94. I would be very surprised if Pelosi — given a caretaker role, would alter any policy. It would be a breach that would end in the order of succession being changed at the first opportunity — back to Secretary of State next. The Speaker only became next in line when Congress was taken over by Republicans and there was no VP under Truman.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. Kevin M – i’d be surprised, mostly because to falsely claim that he’s gotten the disease would probably strike trump as making him look weak, and he’d resist the hell out of it. seems way more plausible that it’s true.

    A *lot* of my friends are so shell-shocked by this year that they aren’t believing it, though.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  96. I see that aphrael and Paul agree.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. Kevin M – I think Pelosi is enough of an institutionalist that she wouldn’t do it, and likely her term as President would be the end of her political career. I doubt Newsom reappoints her, and while the House could elect a non-member as Speaker, I doubt they’d do that, either.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  98. BTW, is it me, or is PP a bit balky today?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  99. @87 That is a profound comment. I’m glad you post here, aphrael.

    norcal (a5428a)

  100. although, wait, i’ve got the process wrong. there isn’t a gubernatorial appointment for a congressional vacancy, there’s a special election.

    i’m *really* curious about the legal minutia of that. The vacancy would occur on (say) Oct 14 (spitballing a random date), but there’s no way to hold an election before the term of office expires. Pelosi’s going to win re-election to her Congressional seat, but it would create a new vacancy on Jan. 3 when she couldn’t take the seat.

    So my read is Newsom can’t call a special election until Jan. 3 so we end up with one in late March or early April.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  101. President Nancy Pelosi how about them apples? Pence and hope hicks worked closely together.

    asset (e1a037)

  102. E-6B transponders turned on.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  103. @101 It would be more than foolish to mess with a sick Trump.

    norcal (a5428a)

  104. @94

    aphrael is right. Trump thinks he won the debate hands down and is cruising to a landslide re-election if they would only “get rid of the ballots.”

    That kind of “meta” thinking requires seeing things from a perspective different from his own, and he is utterly incapable of that.

    Dave (1bb933)

  105. Pelosi might become president and have to resign from Congress, but then she’s re-elected for the next Congress. Of course, that starts 2 weeks before the presidential term ends. Ooops.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. It doesn’t really matter. With Biden in the WH, Pelosi’s days as Speaker are numbered. Too much pent-up demand for ACTION!!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. Kevin M, at 105 — yeah, that’s exactly what i’m saying. so there’s a new vacancy in the new term, and there’s a special election in late march or early april (i really can’t be bothered to look up the precise deadline) with a runoff a bit later (yay california election law). so the seat is vacant until midsummer, probably, there’s a new speaker who isn’t really going to want to be dislodged, and it’s not clear that it’s worth it to go back to congress that way.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  108. norcal, at 99: thank you. i’ve been here for seventeen (!!) years. there’s a sense of community here, it’s good for me to learn from conservatives, and i hope i can temper some of y’alls view of liberals, too. :)

    aphrael (4c4719)

  109. Not only does it make him look weak, this is the ultimate “emperor has no clothes” moment when all his rainbows and unicorns happy talk is exposed as the unadulterated bullsh*t that it is.

    Dave (1bb933)

  110. Dave — not if he has a relatively easy course of sickness, recovers quickly, and can proclaim from personal experience that it’s all much ado about nothing.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  111. aphrael, at 107: that is quite a long time! I’ve been here since about 2008, but only began to comment regularly after I retired a couple of years ago. I migrated from Cathy Seipp’s blog, where I traded comments with Dana, Mike K (who, sadly, doesn’t comment here anymore), and Bradley Fikes (RIP).

    norcal (a5428a)

  112. Which network starts trump death watch day one? My money is on msdnc.

    asset (e1a037)

  113. not if he has a relatively easy course of sickness, recovers quickly, and can proclaim from personal experience that it’s all much ado about nothing

    His base would eat it up, but minimizing the hundreds of thousands of dead because *you* have the luxury of instant tests, aggressive contact tracing and early treatment, while the rest of the country has to wait a week or more for test results when they can get a test at all, is not a winning strategy, I think.

    Dave (1bb933)

  114. Dave, agreed. However, “clever but stupid” is one of the two operating modes in this administration (“plain stupid” being the other one).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  115. I think we’ve exposed a small problem in the 20th Amendment. It used to be that both Congress and the presidential terms ended on the same day (March 4).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. However, I have no reason to expect that Pence is in any danger. He seems quite robust actually.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  117. @115 Yes. Chances that both Trump and Pence take a dirt nap are virtually nil.

    norcal (a5428a)

  118. I happen to have several hard core trump supporters in my personal circle. It sucks, but it is what it is. And the fact of the matter is, I do care about these people. So here’s the message I have for them…

    In the year 2020, the month of October stepped up to the plate and smacked one into the right field bleachers. Hang on, this ride ain’t over yet. Here are my thoughts on the latest development…

    Good news:
    President Trump has some of the best doctors in the world attending to him. He is, and will be getting the best care available.
    We have come a long way in understanding and treating this disease. Early treatment options have come a long way in reducing the severity of the disease.
    Many, many faithful people are praying for his full recovery.

    Bad news:
    He does have several risk factors, that may put him at higher risk of complications.
    In spite of the factors in his favor, there is still a very real risk that his condition could become severe, or even fatal.
    It will be days/weeks before we know for certain what the outcome will be.

    The Obvious:
    Our nation is strongly divided. Rather than bring the country together, this will probably drive us (as a nation) further apart.
    There are some very real assholes out there that hope (and pray!) for the worst to happen. These people are disgusting ghouls, but that’s the way it is in America now.
    Expect things to get worse before it gets better, this is still 2020. Violence, hatred, anger, economic distress, depression and suicide, and these are just the things we can predict.

    You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pain

    Remember:
    God is sovereign. Our strength is not in the power of man, or government, but in the name of the Lord.

    God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way, and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam and the mountains quake with their surging. … Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall; he lifts his voice, the earth melts. The Lord Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress.

    God is still seated on His throne in Heaven.

    Glenn (a56320)

  119. Change the ballot; dream of Pence; Biden time… the desperation of Trumphaters is hilarious.

    So much drama. Are you not entertained?

    When he beats this, too, you’ll never hear the end of it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. Which network starts trump death watch day one? My money is on msdnc.
    asset (e1a037) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:48 am

    Rachel Maddow:

    “God bless the president and the first lady. If you pray, please pray for their speedy and complete recovery — and for everyone infected, everywhere. This virus is horrific and merciless — no one would wish its wrath on anyone. We must get its spread under control. Enough.”

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  121. @119 The day is still young yet. I always have tyt network as a hedge.

    asset (e1a037)

  122. Well, all of this goes to show you that, even when you have extensive testing, it is still after the fact. It also will probably show you it is extremely difficult to trace, and determine how someone got infected.

    This doesn’t tell you the seriousness of the case. It’s not that dangerous, even to someone 75 years old, but it is not 99% harmless either.

    Another question: Will be taken hydorxychloroquine this time, or getting some other treatment, or has that idea, or the idea of doing anything, been beaten out of him?

    Irony: Rush Limbaugh was speculaating on Tuesday that Biden might claim he tested positive to get out of the debate. As it is, it was Trump who tested positive and in reality.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  123. 83. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:11 am

    The Speaker only became next in line when Congress was taken over by Republicans and there was no VP under Truman.

    But President Truman signed that bill. Perhaps he didn’t want his successor to be George Marshall, who was not enamored of him. It is said he wanted it to be Sam Rayburn but that wouldn’t have been the case in the remainder of that term.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  124. 114. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:56 am

    I think we’ve exposed a small problem in the 20th Amendment. It used to be that both Congress and the presidential terms ended on the same day (March 4).

    I don;t think it was an oversight to have Congressional terms start earlier.

    They obviously wanted the new House, not the old one, to pick a new president in the even no candidate got majority of the electoral vote or there was a tie..

    Or if there were competing electors from the same state.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  125. The leftwing ghouls will hope and pray that he succumbs to the virus. MSNBC looks like they had too much fun – and time – putting together their list of people who were in close contact with Trump.

    Atlantic is too busy writing a piece on the Catholic Church being a more dangerous terrorist group than ISIS to care.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  126. While the media breathlessly blames Trump’s lack of mask wearing, they do little to explain why blackface-loving VA governor Northam (D) got sick with COVID. He is a doctor and mask-wearer.

    I’ll wait.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  127. Trump is now the most famous person to test positive for Covid-19.

    Boris Johnson. Positive and symptomatic.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Trump’s age is against him, but is there any evidence that obesity is an aggravating condition for any infectious disease other than jock itch?

    (I said infectious disease not diabetes or hardening of the arteries.)

    nk (1d9030)

  129. 127. I’ve heard obesity is comorbid for COVID, but that and $5 will get you a socially distanced venti mocha.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  130. I have been so depressed by the glee I see on social media from progressives about this. It’s the kind of thing no one should be proud of feeling.

    So I don’t believe I will read this thread, just in case.

    Simon Jester (41c481)

  131. I’ve known a number of people recently who’ve gotten it and worked through it like a flu. Some of them had worse comorbidities than Trump. Over time virus strains weaken and I suspect the current strain isn’t as strong as what we started with.

    I wouldn’t start planning the funeral yet.

    frosty (f27e97)

  132. Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 10/2/2020 @ 4:33 am

    Take a look at some of the intro and exit footage for Biden’s whistle stop tours in the last few days. You’ll see speakers walk to the podium without a mask, touch and breath on things at the podium, fumble with the mask, breath on and touch more stuff, and Biden will walk up and do the same.

    It’s masks for show. Even if they have effective masks they are being used effectively.

    frosty (f27e97)

  133. they are aren’t being used effectively.

    frosty (f27e97)

  134. wanted to check in the ghouls, carry on,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  135. Nobody’s safe and no one thing will keep you safe.

    nk (1d9030)

  136. wanted to check in the ghouls, carry on,

    There are no ghouls here, narciso. Find a site where they’re still talking about Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

    nk (1d9030)

  137. I hope Trump and Melania recover quickly and fully.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  138. On second thought … how do we even know it’s true? We heard it from Trump. He is exactly the kind of person who would lie about being sick so he won’t have to go to school to take away attention from a very bad week, his taxes and his debate performance, and to have a fake recovery that “proves” that he was right about Covid-19 all the time.

    nk (1d9030)

  139. Today, I expect little transparency from the White House regarding who else is infected and who came into contact with Spreader Hicks, not when you have a Press Secretary can’t say who “they” is and can’t say where the river is when it came to Trump’s allegation that “they” allegedly dumped ballots in a Wisconsin river, or maybe it was a ditch, or maybe it was PA.
    The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel followed up, finding that there was mail dumped in a ditch but there were no ballots. As expected, the allegations came directly from Trump’s a$$, amplified by the usual suspects in Trump-sniffing media.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  140. Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/2/2020 @ 3:29 am

    Irony: Rush Limbaugh was speculaating on Tuesday that Biden might claim he tested positive to get out of the debate. As it is, it was Trump who tested positive and in reality.

    Whether Biden announces he’s positive will depend on Trump’s symptoms and polling data.

    frosty (f27e97)

  141. As little as I like Trump, I do wish him a speedy recovery. I can’t help noticing, however, the alacrity with which some in his fanbase (not so much here, but in other forums) have pounced on mean-spirited comments from the left, as if such hatefulness somehow proved something. It does not. I think we can all be certain that if it were Biden rather than Trump who had been infected, we would be hearing similar hateful comments from Trump’s fanbase. This is a time, though, when we ought to rise above such tribalism.

    Roger (a5bda3)

  142. It’s pretty ugly out there. I remember when one of the Koch brothers died the comments were astoundingly mean. I despaired for humanity and for lefties esp that day. Trump. Trump seems a special case, because for instance, he mocked Hillary mercilessly when she contracted pneumonia. He’s just a mean and nasty guy. It’s hard to just wish him well and let that be the end of it. But. I wish him a full and speedy recovery.

    JRH (52aed3)

  143. On second thought … how do we even know it’s true? We heard it from Trump. He is exactly the kind of person who would lie about being sick so he won’t have to go to school to take away attention from a very bad week, his taxes and his debate performance, and to have a fake recovery that “proves” that he was right about Covid-19 all the time.

    nk (1d9030) — 10/2/2020 @ 6:08 am

    It would be out of character for him to admit something that makes him look weak in some way.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  144. nk (1d9030) — 10/2/2020 @ 5:59 am

    There are no ghouls here, narciso.

    The day is still young.

    frosty (f27e97)

  145. The president is not human neither is the dirst lady to many here, so you can shovel all the excrement from an open sewer like avenatti without any conscience.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  146. Trump seems a special case, because for instance, he mocked Hillary mercilessly when she contracted pneumonia. He’s just a mean and nasty guy.

    Since we live in a digital age, it is very easy to replay Trump’s reactions to other sick politicians, including Clinton and Romney. All you need to do is put together a montage, with Trump’s announcement he has tested positive, followed by clips of his prior bad reactions. Then say no more.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  147. Philosophical question: isn’t it possible that a person is so wicked and destructive that one could – in good conscience – view a life-threatening illness as a good thing?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dave (1bb933)

  148. If Putin were debilitated by accidental exposure to Novichok, would we be obliged to rend our clothes in grief?

    Dave (1bb933)

  149. Roger (a5bda3) — 10/2/2020 @ 6:20 am

    I can’t help noticing, however, the alacrity with which some in his fanbase (not so much here, but in other forums) have pounced on mean-spirited comments from the left, as if such hatefulness somehow proved something. It does not.

    Let’s back that truck up. For the last couple of years the defacto rule has been that not liking Trump proved a moral, ethical, and intellectual superiority. It’s an Indulgence that by itself confers this superiority. Any “honest” person would reject him because he’s dishonest. Any “intelligent” person can see this. But these same people then lie and support politicans who lie. They consistently work to prove that they aren’t ethical, don’t really care about principles, and aren’t that intelligent but since they can always critize Trump they can reset and start again. So, yes, maybe not much, maybe something we already knew, but it does prove something.

    I think we can all be certain that if it were Biden rather than Trump who had been infected, we would be hearing similar hateful comments from Trump’s fanbase. This is a time, though, when we ought to rise above such tribalism.

    It’s funny how “rise above” only comes up when your own tribe is acting a fool.

    frosty (f27e97)

  150. A hypothesis that cannot be proven in theory is meaningless, Mr. Dave.

    nk (1d9030)

  151. Tim Miller is harsh but not wrong.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  152. I can tell you one bad thing, though. This could not have come at a worst time for America. It only adds to the election chaos and further damages our democracy.

    nk (1d9030)

  153. And who is responsible for that, Mr. nk?

    Who could have easily prevented it?

    Dave (1bb933)

  154. Miller is a garden slug who deserves to be salted.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  155. Que dije.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  156. Trump has said frequently that more testing means more cases. Going with that “logic”, had he not been tested, he never would’ve been diagnosed, never would’ve been a CV19 statistic.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  157. Dave (1bb933) — 10/2/2020 @ 6:48 am

    Philosophical question … in good conscience

    It’s your friends conscience. They can do with it what they will. Does your friend post here?

    frosty (f27e97)

  158. Let’s back that truck up. For the last couple of years the defacto rule has been that not liking Trump proved a moral, ethical, and intellectual superiority. It’s an Indulgence that by itself confers this superiority. Any “honest” person would reject him because he’s dishonest. Any “intelligent” person can see this. But these same people then lie and support politicans who lie. They consistently work to prove that they aren’t ethical, don’t really care about principles, and aren’t that intelligent but since they can always critize Trump they can reset and start again. So, yes, maybe not much, maybe something we already knew, but it does prove something.

    Other than the fact he hates the same people you do, what about Trump is likable at a personal level? He’s unfaithful, dishonest, mean, vindictive, disloyal, selfish, gluttonous, uncaring…

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  159. Philosophical question: isn’t it possible that a person is so wicked and destructive that one could – in good conscience – view a life-threatening illness as a good thing?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dave (1bb933) — 10/2/2020 @ 6:48 am

    Sure, but this isn’t one of those cases.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  160. frosty —

    You describe a nihilistic post-modern universe in a rather casual way. People who dislike Trump support lying politicians. Well, yes. Politicians do lie from time to time. Your argument, offered with disdain but not much evidence is that these politicians lie as often as Trump, or even more so. So these supporters must be awful people or something.

    And this is how we sink into the state of nature, where life is nasty, brutish and short.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  161. Sure, but this isn’t one of those cases.

    What are the criteria?

    Dave (1bb933)

  162. From Montagu’s link:

    I hope that the virus’s impact on the president and the first lady is mild and that they have a speedy recovery. And then I hope the American people hand him the debasing landslide defeat that he deserves.

    Then we might all have a chance to heal.

    Probably this is the best thing to say about this very 2020 situation.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  163. If Putin were debilitated by accidental exposure to Novichok, would we be obliged to rend our clothes in grief?

    Why Putin? Why not Reagan?

    beer ‘n pretzels (900304)

  164. Time123 (69b2fc) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:04 am

    That can all be true and have nothing to do with my point. I’m not saying he’s likable on any level.

    I’m saying it’s hypocritical to say that all of those things are personally important to you and then not do them. So, it’s prefectly valid to complain about Trump lying. It’s hypocritical to lie about him lying. It’s doubling down on hypocrisy to then say you’re virtuous for lying about Trump lying. This is also a problem with racists being racist and justifying it by saying the targets are racists and racism is wrong.

    In this case we’re starting to make the case that it’s ok to be dishonest, mean, vindictive, etc. because he’s dishonest, mean, vindictive, etc., i.e. we are working up the usual two wrongs make a right routine.

    frosty (f27e97)

  165. I like presidential candidates who don’t get the virus, okay?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  166. This means Pelosi is sworn in as president indefinitely and perhaps until inauguration, when Biden is sworn in. It also means Amy Coney Barrett would not be confirmed because Interim President Pelosi would have withdrawn her nomination.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/1/2020 @ 11:51 pm

    That would fit with the year.

    They better confirm Barrett ASAP.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  167. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:04 am

    Trump has said frequently that more testing means more cases. Going with that “logic”, had he not been tested, he never would’ve been diagnosed, never would’ve been a CV19 statistic.

    Actually, that’s not “logic” it’s just logic. If you aren’t diagnosed you wouldn’t be a statistic.

    It’s possible that I’ve had it but I wasn’t tested. I don’t show up in the statistics.

    frosty (f27e97)

  168. What are the criteria?

    There is only one: Omniscience.

    nk (1d9030)

  169. Why Putin? Why not Reagan?

    If you prefer.

    It seems clear that cheering the mortal illness of a good person is reprehensible.

    My friend was asking about the different case where the person is ineffably evil.

    Dave (1bb933)

  170. If Putin were debilitated by accidental exposure to Novichok, would we be obliged to rend our clothes in grief?
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/2/2020 @ 6:53 am

    I wouldn’t rend any garments, but I would try to compartmentalize. There’s the end of his evil, which I’d celebrate, and there’s end of his life, which I would try to respectfully, if perfunctorily mourn.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  171. I’m not saying how successful I’d be, but for me at least trying to draw that distinction is important, however evil the person is.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  172. My friend was asking about the different case where the person is ineffably evil.

    Do you think the person who cheered Reagan’s brush with death didn’t think Reagan was evil?

    You’re asking for a standard that likely no two people are going to agree on. We have several viable means for removing a leader, civilly, so what is the point? We don’t live in Russia.

    beer ‘n pretzels (900304)

  173. It is fascinating how sensitive to ugliness Trump fans can be, when the shoe is on the other foot. Does being a fan of the bully who mocks any disability or illness cultivate a fine attunement to ugliness? Does laughing at all those Trump jokes help his fans identify how mean people are?

    Anyway, I hope all the ugliness Trump has expressed towards his critics and opponents, when they are hurt, die, or got COVID, is on his mind today. I don’t wish him physical harm or delight that he is sick, but this is one of the final opportunities in Trump’s life to change as a man.

    To his fans on the hunt to find opportunities to be thin-skinned that someone has a negative impression of a guy like Trump: go walk outside instead.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  174. I just saw the Kimberly Guilfoyle allegations. They alone are enough to send a father to his sickbed. Dang, but that is one pornographic woman.

    nk (1d9030)

  175. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:07 am

    You describe a nihilistic post-modern universe in a rather casual way.

    I’m not sure me describing reality as it is is a bad thing but why do I think you’re about to misstate my position?

    Your argument, offered with disdain but not much evidence is that these politicians lie as often as Trump, or even more so. So these supporters must be awful people or something.

    There it is.

    It doesn’t matter that the politicans lie as much. I’m not making that assertion and I don’t need evidence of that. I’m saying that if a person says they value honesty and they then lie and then also claim the lying is virtuous it’s worthy of criticism.

    I am saying “or something” but I’m not saying these supporters must be awful people. I’m saying at best they are no different from the people they are calling awful. They’ve established a standard that should also apply to them. My point was this proves they aren’t any more moral, ethical, or virtuous than the people they are calling awful.

    frosty (f27e97)

  176. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:29 am

    To his fans on the hunt to find opportunities to be thin-skinned that someone has a negative impression of a guy like Trump: go walk outside instead.

    Ah, the gaslighting. Some days I think if it weren’t for gaslighting we’d have no light at all. Yes, the problem here really is the fans looking for opportunities to be thin-skinned.

    frosty (f27e97)

  177. Do you think the person who cheered Reagan’s brush with death didn’t think Reagan was evil?

    I’m sure they did. And to the extent Reagan wasn’t evil and destructive, it reflects very badly on them to cheer his shooting.

    To the extent Putin isn’t evil and destructive, the same would be true.

    You’re asking for a standard that likely no two people are going to agree on. We have several viable means for removing a leader, civilly, so what is the point? We don’t live in Russia.

    We don’t live in Russia yet.

    The Reagan example (being the victim of a crime) is still a bit different than the Putin hypothetical, or the situation of someone who mocks common-sense precautions and encourages hundreds of millions of people to behave in ways that endanger them and the people around them.

    In the two latter cases, the subjects’ are endangered as a direct result their own morally defective behavior that has already cost innocent people their lives.

    Dave (1bb933)

  178. Biden, Dems send well wishes to Trump
    …….
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she’s praying for the president and hopes his testing positive for COVID-19 might be a “learning experience” about the virus.

    “Let us all pray for the president’s health,” Pelosi said on MSNBC. She added, “This is tragic, It is very sad.”

    The speaker said she was tested out of caution and is awaiting results. But said warned against “brazen” behavior that allowed “something like this to happen”.

    Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris is wishing President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump a “full and speedy recovery” after they contracted the COVID-19 virus.

    Harris tweeted Friday that she and her husband, Doug Emhoff, are “keeping them and the entire Trump family in our thoughts.”

    The California senator and running mate to Joe Biden took a routine test Thursday, and tested negative for the coronavirus. She was not in Cleveland on Tuesday night when Trump faced Biden for the first presidential debate of the campaign.
    ………
    Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden said Friday that he and his wife Jill “send our thoughts to President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump for a swift recovery” after they tested positive for the coronavirus.

    In a Friday morning tweet, he added, “We will continue to pray for the health and safety of the president and his family.”

    It was not immediately clear whether the former vice president had been tested since appearing at Tuesday’s presidential debate with Trump or whether he was taking any additional safety protocols. …….
    ……….
    Russian President Vladimir Putin is extending wishes of a speedy recovery to U.S. President Donald Trump and his wife, Melania, and expressing “sincere support in this difficult moment,” according to a statement released by the Kremlin on Friday.
    ……..
    The Kremlin says Putin sent Trump a telegram saying that his “inherent vitality, good spirits and optimism will help you cope with the dangerous virus.”
    …………

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  179. Ah, the gaslighting. Some days I think if it weren’t for gaslighting we’d have no light at all. Yes, the problem here really is the fans looking for opportunities to be thin-skinned.

    frosty (f27e97) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:38 am

    I’m too tired to process whether I am gaslighting, but if you’re going to defend a guy like Trump by whining people were not sensitive about misfortune, I think it’s fascinating and funny.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  180. Actually, that’s not “logic” it’s just logic. If you aren’t diagnosed you wouldn’t be a statistic.

    It’s “logic” when the number infected exists regardless of how many are tested.
    It’s “logic” because an untold number of death certificates will have CV19 as the cause of death; it’ll get measured one way or the other.
    It’s “logic” because Trump’s motivations are corrupt and exploitative, and not about helping the afflicted; that, in his small mind, he’ll look better politically with fewer reported cases.
    It’s “logic” because he’d rather keep infected cruise ship passengers on board instead of getting treatment on shore because he’d rather the numbers down than actually help people. It’s borderline malevolent.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  181. We don’t live in Russia yet.

    Ok well, I see where your friend was going with this.

    Maybe you don’t remember how vilified Reagan was, that his budget cuts were outright killing the poor. I think there was an infamous Newsweek cover that suggested that. It wasn’t a stretch to wish ill on him from many quarters, before Twitter made it easy. To many he was ineffably evil.

    Your friend is trying to draw a distinction that isn’t there.

    beer ‘n pretzels (2baa10)

  182. 174.

    It’s obvious why Don, Jr. is such a disappointment to Sr. There’s the type you pay to raise your kids, and there’s the type you pay to shut up about cheating on the type you pay to raise your kids. Jr. can’t keep his types straight.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  183. Oh wait, no I’m not gaslighting unless I did the thing that’s really wrong. The correct Trump argument was to demand the “Safe Space.”

    Dustin (4237e0)

  184. Maybe you don’t remember how vilified Reagan was, that his budget cuts were outright killing the poor. I think there was an infamous Newsweek cover that suggested that. It wasn’t a stretch to wish ill on him from many quarters, before Twitter made it easy. To many he was ineffably evil.

    Obviously. Terrible people can be lionized, and decent people can be demonized.

    But it is unserious moral relativism (IMO) to suggest that this means there are no morally terrible people or morally decent people.

    Your friend is trying to draw a distinction that isn’t there.

    I disagree.

    Dave (1bb933)

  185. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:48 am

    I’m too tired to process whether I am gaslighting, but if you’re going to defend a guy like Trump by whining people were not sensitive about misfortune, I think it’s fascinating and funny.

    I’m not defending Trump. I’m critizing you for whining about the rock and hard place you’ve yourself between this morning. You read the room and decided the wiser choice was critizing Trump fans.

    New babys can a lot of awake time. Good luck and get some rest.

    frosty (f27e97)

  186. frosty tells us:

    For the last couple of years the defacto rule has been that not liking Trump proved a moral, ethical, and intellectual superiority. It’s an Indulgence that by itself confers this superiority. Any “honest” person would reject him because he’s dishonest. Any “intelligent” person can see this. But these same people then lie and support politicans who lie. They consistently work to prove that they aren’t ethical, don’t really care about principles, and aren’t that intelligent but since they can always critize Trump they can reset and start again. So, yes, maybe not much, maybe something we already knew, but it does prove something.

    He then clarifies:

    It doesn’t matter that the politicans lie as much. I’m not making that assertion and I don’t need evidence of that. I’m saying that if a person says they value honesty and they then lie and then also claim the lying is virtuous it’s worthy of criticism.

    I am saying “or something” but I’m not saying these supporters must be awful people. I’m saying at best they are no different from the people they are calling awful. They’ve established a standard that should also apply to them. My point was this proves they aren’t any more moral, ethical, or virtuous than the people they are calling awful.

    Now this is garden variety subtweeting, and it would be nice to know what frosty is referring to specifically. The message here I see is “Everybody lies. Believe nobody. Particularly when they talk about Trump’s lies, because they are lying. And those people really shouldn’t think lying is a big deal, and probably don’t, because they are lying.”

    Frosty probably can explain to me how this is different from “LOL, nothing matters.”

    Appalled (1a17de)

  187. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/2/2020 @ 7:50 am

    It’s “logic” when the number infected exists regardless of how many are tested.

    Agreed but not what you said.

    It’s “logic” because an untold number of death certificates will have CV19 as the cause of death; it’ll get measured one way or the other.

    Not if they aren’t tested. Unless you’re saying they’re just lying on the death certs.

    It’s “logic” because Trump’s motivations are corrupt and exploitative, and not about helping the afflicted; that, in his small mind, he’ll look better politically with fewer reported cases.

    Now we’re off the rails. This isn’t logic. This is just a rant.

    It’s “logic” because he’d rather keep infected cruise ship passengers on board instead of getting treatment on shore because he’d rather the numbers down than actually help people. It’s borderline malevolent.

    Not logic and not related at all to what you said.

    The first rule of holes is stop digging. You can go back and say that you meant “actual number infected” instead of the tracked statistics.

    frosty (f27e97)

  188. It is both possible to be sympathetic toward the Trumps and wish them a speedy recovery as well as hope that this drives home the seriousness of the virus to the man who has the most power to decide the course for the management of the pandemic in our nation.

    This is how decent adults react.

    Dana (292df6)

  189. RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel is infected.

    Dave (1bb933)

  190. They are halfway to china right now, like that terrible film with aaron eckhart.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  191. CNN now reporting Trump has “mild symptoms”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  192. The report on Trump symptoms is official from the WH.

    Dave (1bb933)

  193. Oy.
    Without actually reading the story, I was thinking that Ms. Peron Guilfoyle was the victim, not the predator. Misimpression dispelled.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  194. Keep telling yourself that.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  195. The first rule of holes is stop digging.

    I’m not the one defending Don “Slow the Testing Down” Trump. I’m fine right where I’m at.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  196. I sincerely wish recovery to all those infected with this disease.

    I’m seeing some asshattery on all sides about this.

    Disappointed, I am. /yodaism

    whembly (c30c83)

  197. Ms. McDaniel last met with Trump last Friday.

    Ms. McDaniel is the latest person who is in frequent contact with President Trump to test positive for the virus.
    She was last with Mr. Trump last Friday, and has been at her home in Michigan since then, the people briefed on the matter said.
    She received her diagnosis on Wednesday, they said.

    As a father, I’d say that Mitt Romney has to be pissed off.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  198. I don’t have anything against over-sexed latinas. Unfortunately. But some of the things Guilfoyle’s former assistant alleges are beyond the pale.

    nk (1d9030)

  199. I’m seeing some asshattery on all sides about this.

    But you also had people that were very terrible people on both sides.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  200. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:05 am

    Now this is garden variety subtweeting, and it would be nice to know what frosty is referring to specifically. The message here I see is “Everybody lies. Believe nobody. Particularly when they talk about Trump’s lies, because they are lying. And those people really shouldn’t think lying is a big deal, and probably don’t, because they are lying.”

    Frosty probably can explain to me how this is different from “LOL, nothing matters.”

    I can try but I’m starting to think you are intentionally misstating my positiion and arguing in bad faith.

    Believe nobody

    I would say be skeptical and make up your own mind. Because, yes, all politicans lie. On the other hand are you saying believe Joe? Or someone else? Can you point me to someone I can beleive in? Can you give me the faith you are professing? I don’t think you can. I think at least one of us knows you aren’t professing a faith. Just engaging in a little post-modern deconstruction yourself.

    Particularly when they talk about Trump’s lies, because they are lying.

    This is the little twist that says you’re arguing in bad faith. There’s a word play here that makes it sound like criticism (all) of Trump should be ignored because of (some) lies. When a person is lying it undermines their argument. This should be a given.

    and probably don’t, because they are lying

    If you are lying about lying wouldn’t it be true that you really don’t think lying itself, claims to contrary, is a big deal. Of course you think some lying is a big deal but only because it’s taking the airtime your lies should receive.

    frosty (f27e97)

  201. I wish the first family and their affected brain trust well with speedy recovery for all.

    In response to other matters:

    Don Jr is the runt of his perfected Aryan litter. And Pence would smoke Harris head to head.

    urbanleftbehind (21003c)

  202. According to the Biden campaign, nobody notified them of the COVID exposure. They learned it from watching the news. If true, that’s beyond despicable, yet totally unsurprising.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  203. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:16 am

    I’m not the one defending Don “Slow the Testing Down” Trump. I’m fine right where I’m at.

    Yes, the other old favorite. If you aren’t on my team you’re defending Trump. I think we’ve seen two of these in the last hour or so?

    frosty (f27e97)

  204. Yes, the other old favorite. If you aren’t on my team you’re defending Trump. I think we’ve seen two of these in the last hour or so?

    If the shoe fits…

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  205. 206, I called that one way back…someone would have to be a NYC style squeegee man on top of a windshield to see if that particular complainant was any hint of biracial.

    urbanleftbehind (21003c)

  206. So, there was this book, circa, ’72, called “Dark Horse” where the GOP Presidential candidate drops dead less than a month before the election. He’d been badly trailing in the polls, his campaign was short on funds and the RNC had trouble finding someone willing to take on the task of losing gracefully. Eventually they settle on a guy they’d been grooming to be the next governor of NJ. His job is to finish out the campaign without dragging down the down-ballot races.

    And then the guy goes seriously off message.

    It was a fun book, but the politics of 1972 are truly strange today. It was writen by the same guy who wrote “Seven Days in May,”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  207. And Pence would smoke Harris head to head.

    I thought about that last night. It would be just the thing for this year if BOTH presidential candidates had to pull out, and the race went down to Pence v. Harris. It would be like a Twilight Zone episode.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  208. You can get real dizzy trying to turn something to benefit Trump.

    Usually if an argument requires all that smoke and mirrors it’s a clue.

    Trump hid that Hope Hicks was sick. Trump encouraged people to stop wearing masks. Trump lied about what Fauci said about them. He had that rally in Tulsa that killed folks like Herman Cain. He waited months to step up to the plate, and then not to help, but to protect himself.

    It is unfortunate the pandemic is bad and has spread to Trump personally and I again note this is a great opportunity for Trump to think about his conduct and improve as a man.

    Every blog has this same element today: someone who has defended Trump’s incredible nastiness, telling us we owe Trump respect in how we respond to this latest of Trump’s failures. Sorry I just think that’s funny.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  209. I thought about that last night. It would be just the thing for this year if BOTH presidential candidates had to pull out, and the race went down to Pence v. Harris. It would be like a Twilight Zone episode.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:35 am

    In some ways I would like that.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  210. A succubi like harris, dont assume that, but thats whose team you are on.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  211. Every blog has this same element today: someone who has defended Trump’s incredible nastiness, telling us we owe Trump respect in how we respond to this latest of Trump’s failures. Sorry I just think that’s funny.

    Nobody knows who you’re talking about.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b60f3)

  212. Nobody knows who you’re talking about.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b60f3) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:40 am

    LOL OK, go with that! Next tell me the Proud Boys love Jews.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  213. In some ways I would like that.

    Not me. Between Trump and Biden it’s an easy moral choice. Harris and Pence I might have to sit out.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  214. He waited months to step up to the plate, and then not to help, but to protect himself.

    Considering the way his hotels and resorts are suffering, I’d be interested to know if his delays in the Covid response were due to his financial situation.

    I again note this is a great opportunity for Trump to think about his conduct and improve as a man.

    Until he became president, no one had any power to tell him No, and he lived in a bubble of Yes. Something he eventually recreated inside the WH. Now, he’s facing something that not he can’t control, but no one can control. Buit I think we’ll find he doesn’t reflect on that (he never has). More likely, he’ll find a doctor who will tell him what he wants to hear.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  215. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:35 am

    Every blog has this same element today: someone who has defended Trump’s incredible nastiness, telling us we owe Trump respect in how we respond to this latest of Trump’s failures. Sorry I just think that’s funny.

    Can you provide an example of that? I hear a lot of that claim but I’m just seeing people who don’t agree with you. I know I’m walking into this one since you’ve got an incredible ability to interpret anything less than complete agreement as defending his nastiness and calling for respect but I’m hoping for something unambiguous and I’ve got my hopes up.

    frosty (f27e97)

  216. I think weve gone straight to nazgul, skipping oruk hai.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  217. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:33 am

    If the shoe fits…

    You’re in the tribalism is good camp then? Someone was complaining about that earlier in the thread but you not having any of it?

    frosty (f27e97)

  218. You left out the part where you wished the President a speedy recovery.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  219. Now Trump has the perfect excuse to skip the debates. It will take more than two weeks to recover.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  220. You left out the part where you wished the President a speedy recovery.
    _

    harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:50 am

    It is hilarious that Trump supporters feel everyone is required to wish the president well. A lot of these same Trump supporters have defended Trump being amazingly awful to other people. I could list it out but BoP says it he never did it, so what’s the point?

    It’s good that you guys finally realize that decency is a baseline for conduct, now that it helps your team to say so.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  221. I have wanted Trump gone since about February of 2016. I had hoped that it would be through failure to secure the nomination, impeachment for incompetence, voluntary resignation or a decision not to run again. Until yesterday, my sole hope was that he’d lose re-election, although that was never the optimum path.

    All this because I saw him as uniquely destructive of the GOP and America in general, and a huge opportunity lost through incompetence and lack of the personal qualities required of a political leader.

    This way, through illness, however Karmic, is not what I’d choose. But I cannot pretend to be distraught over it. Does that make me a bad person?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  222. You left out the part where you wished the President a speedy recovery.

    Orange Lives Matter.

    Dave (1bb933)

  223. I again note this is a great opportunity for Trump to think about his conduct and improve as a man.
    Fat chance.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  224. More likely, he’ll find a doctor who will tell him what he wants to hear.

    That is, unfortunately, the human condition. It takes maturity to hear things you don’t want to hear.

    This whole event reminds me of a Jewish story (not real, but it makes a point.)

    A man died, and the family plot in the cemetery was left to his two sons. There was only one space left, and the two sons began fighting over who should get it.

    So they went to the rabbi to ask him to mediate. The rabbi said, “Ok, let me hear from brother number one.” And the first brother began a long rant about why he should get it. The rabbi then said, “Let me hear from brother number two.” And the second brother responded with another rant.

    Said the rabbi, “There is one more party I need to hear from.” “Who?,” the brothers asked, puzzled. “Let’s go to the cemetery,” said the rabbi.

    So they went to the cemetery, and the rabbi asked the brothers to show him the disputed plot, which they did. The rabbi then recounted the dispute out loud. He then bent down, and lay his ear on the empty plot. The brothers looked at each other as though the rabbi had lost his marbles.

    “Rabbi,” they both said, “what does the plot say?”

    Said the rabbi, “It says, Brother One says it’s mine. Brother Two says it’s mine. But I say, they are both mine in the end.”

    And the rabbi concluded: Here is my decision. First come, first served.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  225. Fat chance.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2020 @ 8:56 am

    Nevertheless, that is the best thing we can wish for him. Trump has been particularly awful towards those suffering from this virus, especially his critics, especially in blue states, especially with resources, or those trying to turn course.

    Trump is at the end of his life. If he dies, that is sad, but what matters is his soul. The man who brags he touches women as roughly and wherever and whenever he wants, or tells Jew hating violent Proud Boys to get ready for the election, it is beyond the scope of a man’s judgment to decide what Trump really deserves. That’s up to God.

    We don’t know if Trump has COVID any more than we will know the 2020 election results are authentic. But if he does, it will be tough for him, the way it’s been tough for so many families. Sometimes life needs to kick your ass before you grow, and Trump has had the easiest life and the least growth.

    We should all take a second and think about ourselves, our honesty, what we really want. Does it matter that much? It should. It is fealty to one of these broken political parties? It shouldn’t be.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  226. You’re in the tribalism is good camp then?

    Actually, the opposite, as I’m sensing your reflexive tribal reaction to defend Trump. It was your choice to reply to me.
    Since I’m a Republican opposed to Trump and opposed to all other Republicans who are in the bag for Trump, the Montagu “tribe” fits into my 3rd bedroom with room to spare.

    Every blog has this same element today: someone who has defended Trump’s incredible nastiness, telling us we owe Trump respect in how we respond to this latest of Trump’s failures. Sorry I just think that’s funny.

    Trump has my sympathy and wishes for a full recovery, but not my respect. He brought this on himself through his own foolishness.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  227. frosty (#205):

    I’m not sure what “bad faith” amounts to in the type of conversation we’re having. I don’t like your argument and said so up front. (Labelling something casual nihilism isn’t a compliment.) So, yeah, I am attacking it. I believe I have shown my work in doing so, probably much to the regret of everyone else here.

    The faith I have here is that it’s reasonable for anyone — even occasional liars — to make an issue of Trump’s truthfulness. And you can do so without being a hypocrite. That said, Yes, I would value Mitt Romney’s thoughts about this over Harry Reid’s.

    I am unaware of people boasting about having lied about Trump — though I am sure they are out there. I suspect there aren’t all that many of them and also suspect you have examples at the ready.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  228. It is hilarious that Trump supporters feel everyone is required to wish the president well.“
    __ _

    What’s even more hilarious is people who’ve said they did not vote for Trump and will not vote for Trump being described as ‘Trump supporters’.

    Pointing out the fact that the conservatives saying electing Biden/Harris will be a net positive are deranged sure drives some people batty.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  229. Mike Lee tests positive for Covid. Amy and her Indiana brood and all the little senators she met with this week as well as all those unmasked people at her presser last Saturday best consider quarantine and get tested.

    Biden campaign issues statement- says he has the president in his thoughts and wishes Eisenhower a speedy recovery from his heart attack. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. @231-
    As is glaringly obvious to the nation (except himself, his minions, and supporters), Trump doesn’t know the meaning of empathy, humility, and compassion, let alone have the capacity to express them. As demonstrated over the past three and half years, and he considers these traits to be weaknesses. Trump is incapable of learning from experience, so unless his COVID-19 case requires hospitalization, I don’t think it will make an impression on him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  231. 235. That was a little funny.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  232. A lot of these same Trump supporters have defended Trump being amazingly awful to other people.

    If Trump supporters judged Trump by the same standards they hold other people to, they wouldn’t be Trump supporters.

    They scoff at the “pearl-clutching” of those who think the president ought to display more basic human decency, but they’re very offended if any Trump critic says anything that falls short of perfect saintliness.

    And look at what they say about people whose main sin is disliking Trump, or leaving his administration with blunt words about his behavior in office.

    For example, Tim Miller is “a garden slug who deserves to be salted.” What is Miller’s sin that merits the death penalty? It’s that he says unflattering things about Donald Trump.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  233. What’s even more hilarious is people who’ve said they did not vote for Trump and will not vote for Trump being described as ‘Trump supporters’.

    Fair point, Harkin. My (actual) apologies for unintentionally suggesting you’re a Trump supporter.

    Nevertheless, my point is accurate. It is the most glaring theme this morning that Trump fans are real upset people are being 1% as mean as Trump always is.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  234. They scoff at the “pearl-clutching” of those who think the president ought to display more basic human decency, but they’re very offended if any Trump critic says anything that falls short of perfect saintliness.

    Well said, Radegunda. If you want Trump to follow the rules in a debate, or just be reasonably normal, you’re an effette cuck Karen, bla bla bla. The volume of this Trump fan argument, that asking for decency is wrong, got extremely annoying, but it abated tremendously when hundreds of thousands of Americans died this year.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  235. Mild symptoms… is that Trump code for diarrhea?

    Montezuma’s Revenge; blame Mexico! Build that wall! Build that wall!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  236. Pointing out the fact that the conservatives saying electing Biden/Harris will be a net positive are deranged sure drives some people batty.
    _

    harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:11 am

    LOL. I agree it is super nuts, and this is pretty accurate about me at least. I’ve spent a long time criticizing Biden, I’ve watched him more carefully than most democrats because foreign policy is interesting and he’s so mushy about that. Harris is beyond. And I’m arguing, from a conservative point of view, for these folks.

    On face value, my position on the election is insane. Unfortunately I am right. And it’s the situation, where Trump is the alternative, that is crazy.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  237. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:07 am

    I’m not sure what “bad faith” amounts to in the type of conversation we’re having.

    Bad faith is intentionally misstating my point, after it’s been pointed out, so that you can continue disagreeing with the fiction instead of my actual point.

    For example:

    The faith I have here is that it’s reasonable for anyone — even occasional liars — to make an issue of Trump’s truthfulness. And you can do so without being a hypocrite.

    This isn’t what I said and we’ve gone back and forth on this. But it’s easier to argue the simpler issue, that it’s ok to have an issue with Trump’s lies, than to argue that it’s ok to lie in order to critize Trump.

    Here’s another one:

    I am unaware of people boasting about having lied about Trump

    This isn’t what I said either. But again it’s easier to create the strawman.

    frosty (f27e97)

  238. GOP donors ‘freaking out’ after coming close to Trump at fundraiser hours before his positive Covid-19 test

    Republican donors who attended President Donald Trump’s fundraiser at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club are panicking after being around the commander in chief hours before he announced that he was infected with the coronavirus.

    GOP donors have been reaching out to Trump campaign and GOP officials for any guidance following the event, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    “The donors have been texting and calling. Freaking out,” the person with direct knowledge said. This person declined to be named as the conversations were deemed private.

    Trump’s campaign, as of Friday morning, has not sent out any official guidance to many of the donors involved with the event. ……
    ……
    About 30 to 50 donors came close to the president Thursday night, this person added, while noting most of the interaction with Trump took place outdoors. Many of those contributors who have been able to get in touch with GOP officials have been told to stay home and reach out to their physician for next steps.
    ……
    Some Republican donors questioned the president’s decision to go to the event after his longtime advisor Hope Hicks became ill. Hicks tested positive Thursday morning after displaying symptoms Wednesday night while on a campaign trip to Minnesota with the president. White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told reporters Friday that Hicks’ diagnosis became known just before the president left for Bedminster.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  239. “Trump fans are real upset people are being 1% as mean as Trump always is.”
    __

    At least the team that writes Biden’s tweets didn’t fall for it and actually responded correctly (it happens).

    harkin (902cc1)

  240. 241, no… the other bogeyman, but let’s have a panic buy at all the stores first for all the cheap goods.

    urbanleftbehind (21003c)

  241. Pointing out the fact that the conservatives saying electing Biden/Harris will be a net positive are deranged sure drives some people batty.

    There is no “net positive” choice. Just bad and very bad.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  242. I’m happy for Biden that he tested negative. Once he’s elected president, he won’t be able to hide in a bunker anymore.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b60f3)

  243. At least the team that writes Biden’s tweets didn’t fall for it and actually responded correctly (it happens).

    harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:30 am

    Fair. Biden’s tweets are just a product, and another sign of how fake his candidacy is. I didn’t feel it was as bad with Obama’s social media, even though that was also a product.

    Is that a net positive over Trump’s tweets, which are usually authentic insight into the mind of a terrible person?

    Yes.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  244. On face value, my position on the election is insane. Unfortunately I am right. And it’s the situation, where Trump is the alternative, that is crazy.“
    __ _

    I’m confident that when Biden von Hindenberg takes office and the same mirage of ‘Healing the country, bringing everyone together, listening to moderate voices again’ vanishes even faster than it did for Chairman Zero, those conservatives who enabled it will hold up their hands and assume ownership.

    That people can’t see the recent breakdown in civil order happening in Democratic-controlled cities and not understand what this means if you put these same people in charge of the Executive is as fascinating as it is terrifying.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  245. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:20 am

    Nevertheless, my point is accurate. It is the most glaring theme this morning that Trump fans are real upset people are being 1% as mean as Trump always is.

    I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m not “real upset people are being mean”. Get your mean on if it makes you happy. I’m just pointing out that they aren’t sticking with the values they espouse.

    I think the most glaring them this morning is some people really wanted to gloat but the thread didn’t go that way. I’m just as surprised as you. Maybe you should take your earlier advice and go for a walk outside.

    frosty (f27e97)

  246. there’s a more systemic cognitive outbreak going on here,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  247. harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:40 am

    That people can’t see the recent breakdown in civil order happening in Democratic-controlled cities and not understand what this means if you put these same people in charge of the Executive is as fascinating as it is terrifying.

    It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.

    frosty (f27e97)

  248. Is that a net positive over Trump’s tweets, which are usually authentic insight into the mind of a terrible person?“
    _

    Is this an actual serious question?
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  249. It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.“
    _

    There really are conservatives who don’t grasp that.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  250. I’m happy for Biden that he tested negative. Once he’s elected president, he won’t be able to hide in a bunker anymore.
    Yes he can, just as Trump did during the protests in DC.

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  251. I would like to take this moment to assert that release of presidential candidate’s medical records is more important than releasing their taxes. We can assume that most candidates have the wit to hide their corruption on their tax forms, but it is harder to hide their medical problems. A candidate who has dementia, or serious risk of stroke or heart disease is a problem. I’d also like to see their SAT scores, but that’s just me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  252. @92-
    Melania’s War on Christmas.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  253. Is this an actual serious question?
    _

    harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:42 am

    I don’t take anything I say that seriously. Assume I’m grinning or laughing in all of my comments. When I say I think this reaction from Trump’s fans is funny, I mean I think it’s funny.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  254. Melania’s War on Christmas.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:48 am

    Truthfully, that recording made me like her more. She’s right to find that stuff without meaning or purpose, and she is right to be frustrated that anything she tries to do that is good will be destroyed. Being annoyed with decor is not a war on Christmas itself. I think it was anderson cooper who made that joke, and I’m all for a good joke, but sometimes the left tries so damn hard to prove its opponents are hypocrites that they don’t listen.

    There was a lot of common ground available between Melania’s hope to reunite, her anger at politics as usual, and her annoyance at ceremony.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  255. Kevin M @259-

    Trump has.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  256. Yes he can, just as Trump did during the protests in DC.

    I don’t expect Trump supporters will lay siege to the WH like Biden supporters did, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

    beer ‘n pretzels (900304)

  257. @262-

    I could barely understand her with that accent.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  258. harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:42 am

    “Is that a net positive over Trump’s tweets, which are usually authentic insight into the mind of a terrible person?“

    Is this an actual serious question?

    The odd thing about the original POV is that there are a lot of people who actually do think it’s better to have the well crafted lie. The authentic insight is viewed as worse independent of the subjective judgment of the content.

    This is the draw for some people to Biden. They’ve convinced themselves that it’s a return to the smooth and well crafted jazz lies of the previous administration,

    frosty (f27e97)

  259. I don’t expect Trump supporters will lay siege to the WH like Biden supporters did, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

    No, just that there is a bunker at the White House.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  260. I don’t expect Trump supporters will lay siege to the WH like Biden supporters did, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

    beer ‘n pretzels (900304) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:52 am

    LOL they laid siege and were devoted Biden fans!

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Is Trump the most pathetic victim in all of human history or what?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  261. “I don’t take anything I say that seriously
    __ _

    That’ll come in handy.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  262. DRJ @78-

    I could dream up a great conspiracy theory.

    You don’t have to.

    Conspiracy-Theory Twitter Is Going Nuts Over Trump’s COVID Diagnosis

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  263. “Eyewitness News
    @ABC7NY
    ·
    Actor Rick Moranis identified as victim of random attack on the Upper West Side
    __ _

    Mark Strauss
    @MarkDStrauss

    The followers of Gozer still walk among us. Be vigilant.
    __ _

    harkin (902cc1)

  264. I could barely understand her with that accent.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:52 am

    My dad has a really strong accent, worked his ass off for a long time here, so I’m sympathetic to this. I know some see it as an example of how insulated she is from normal Americans, but it doesn’t mean anything to me.

    Also people deserve to have a confidant and to say dumb things to them. Her ‘friend’ was telling her she’s right, being way way too weak and sympathetic for a real confidant, and was just recording everything for a payday. That is one of the ways smartphones have harmed the world.

    That isolated recording, it’s basically 100% in Melania’s favor as far as my mind goes. And believe me, my mind has gone.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  265. That’ll come in handy.
    _

    harkin (902cc1) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:57 am

    😎

    Dustin (4237e0)

  266. Is wishing to punch the face of a teen for the act of smiling authentic insight into the mind of a terrible person?
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  267. @272-

    The wife of a cousin was one of the last children flown out of Cuba in the 1960s. She has never lost her accent, I think, because it sounds so sexy (at least when I was a kid).

    One last thing about Melania-given there is a 24-year difference in their ages, it almost like Trump married his daughter and Melania married her father.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  268. I could dream up a great conspiracy theory.

    How many letters in COVID? 5
    What else has 5 letters? QAnon

    Coincidence? You tell me.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  269. I’m thinking the ending of the BBC “House Of Cards”. With Ian Richardson. For a conspiracy theory, I mean.

    nk (1d9030)

  270. @260 A noted earlier, my late father would cheer her. He so hated lugging that junk in and out of the attic and especially stringing lights…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  271. So, I know this is tasteless, but i wonder if the coverage about Trump getting CV19 makes him happy because they’re talking about him, or upsets him because they’re calling him old and overweight.

    Time123 (441f53)

  272. @279. Tasteless? About Trump? All these years and you still don’t get it:

    This guy shows up if you open a door– as long as there’s a microphone and camera there.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  273. There outta be a war on Halloween, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  274. @279-

    It’s not tasteless, it appears both are dangerous risk factors. However, if Trump should succumb, I wonder if those who believe that there have been only 9,000 COVID-19 “true” deaths without risk factors would attribute his death to COVID, or his underlying preconditions.

    (I know, that is tasteless, but there is awful lot of speculation about “what would happen” if Trump had to be replaced as the nominee, so I am not alone.)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  275. Bornstein the White won’t be able to wave his stethoscope over Trump’s head and declare him “recovered”. Over at The Atlantic, Mr. Hamblin tells us that we actually know little about Trump’s health, just as we know little about his emergency flight to Walter Reed last year for some episode or other.

    Donald Trump is 74, and he is male.
    Little else is known about his physical condition. Throughout his presidency, he has disclosed almost nothing in the way of medical records. He stands accused, by one of his former doctors, of dictating his medical assessment as a candidate in 2016. Even Trump’s body-mass index—a basic, objective measure of a person’s body weight divided by their height—is disputed. His reported height increased by an inch in his 2018 physical exam, which left him one pound shy of obese for his height.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  276. I hope Trump has a full recovery. It might be better for the country and his own soul, though, if he has enough of a case to understand that Covid is an actual problem and to act accordingly when he gets better.

    (feel free to call me cold-hearted, but it might save lives in the long run)

    Nic (896fdf)

  277. @285. Typhoid Amy can still be a carrier.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  278. @286. You know how this film has to end, Dustin; some morning he’s found face down in a bowl of German chocolate cake between two melting scoops of Dolly Madison vanilla.

    But the real question is: who plays him in the movie?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  279. @288. Oops- for Nic, not Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  280. aphrael has pretty much refuted the conspiracy theory that Trump is faking the virus to win the election.

    Slightly more plausible to me is a different conspiracy theory (which I just came up with, although I’m sure I’m not the first) that he is faking it to have an excuse for *losing* (or dropping out of at the last minute) the election.

    In one version of this theory, Putin breaks the bad news to Trump: “I can’t get rid of the ballots.

    Trump sees that he will be unfairly denied re-election because people who don’t like him are allowed to vote, and decides to try to minimize damage to his “brand” and deny the FakeNewsLameStreamMedia satisfaction by arranging a late exit from the race, ostensibly due to the misfortune of getting infected.

    I don’t believe this, but it seems more in line with something Trump might do (if convinced of defeat).

    Dave (1bb933)

  281. @288 Alec Baldwin?

    Nic (896fdf)

  282. What “undecided”voters will want to be in same room with Trump during the townhall debate? I’m sure it will be postponed, since recovery will take more than two weeks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  283. What “undecided”voters will want to be in same room with Trump during the townhall debate? I’m sure it will be postponed, since recovery will take more than two weeks.

    Agent Orange could participate remotely.

    Dave (1bb933)

  284. The most wild and implausible conspiracy theory is that the virus started in a hostile country and was knowingly allowed to spread, causing an annoying nemesis to lose an election. Crazy.

    beer ‘n pretzels (076a89)

  285. The most wild and implausible conspiracy theory is that the virus started in a hostile country and was knowingly allowed to spread, causing an annoying nemesis to lose an election. Crazy.

    I’ll bet all the other developed countries with tiny fractions of our current per capita case rate and death rate only took effective measures against the virus in order to make Trump look bad, too.

    Dave (1bb933)

  286. The most wild and implausible conspiracy theory is that the virus started in a hostile country and was knowingly allowed to spread, causing an annoying nemesis to lose an election. Crazy.

    Even more diabolical is that this hostile country was willing to kill over 4,600 of their own people to help Biden win. I think Barr should start an investigation to see if there was collusion.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  287. @291. Too old.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  288. Looks like Biden took my advice after all. While Trump is quarantined in his bunker, Biden is traveling to Michigan.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  289. @295: I’ll bet you wish the US was exactly like all those other countries, Dave, including the absence of federalism where local governments are in charge (e.g., NY) and can royally botch things. Let’s be more like Norway, says the “real conservative”.

    beer ‘n pretzels (28bbf3)

  290. But the real question is: who plays him in the movie?

    El Chapo

    Dave (1bb933)

  291. Even more diabolical is that this hostile country was willing to kill over 4,600 of their own people to help Biden win.

    I don’t think the Uighur genocide is helping Biden, Montagu, but maybe Hunter is somehow getting a piece of that action.

    beer ‘n pretzels (28bbf3)

  292. @293-

    I’m thinking of Trump’s head from Futurama.

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  293. John Harwood
    @JohnJHarwood

    keep in mind: the WH did not voluntarily disclose ANYTHING about this
    __ _

    Comfortably Smug
    @ComfortablySmug

    Trump literally tweeted all the info out in real time you dumb hack
    __ _

    AdamG
    @AdamGUNC

    ·@realDonaldTrump saved us all from a weekend of Boogaloo and Proud Boy think pieces
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  294. keep in mind: the WH did not voluntarily disclose ANYTHING about this

    Is this the same John Harwood who didn’t voluntarily disclose he’s a partisan hack?

    beer ‘n pretzels (17404e)

  295. We are so in to Casablanca world…

    “Donald Trump has Covid 19!”

    “Round up the usual suspects.” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942

    ___________
    @277.I’m thinking the ending of the BBC “House Of Cards”. With Ian Richardson. For a conspiracy theory, I mean.

    You may very well think that. I could not possibly comment.

    “Daddyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!” =thump=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  296. @299

    local governments are in charge (e.g., NY) and can royally botch things

    You’re just flinging poo without even thinking about what you’re saying.

    The per capita daily case rate and death rate in NY has been among the lowest in the nation for months.

    Dave (1bb933)

  297. I think the idea that Hope Hicks gave it to Donald Trump and Melania doesn’t have much of abasis for it. She probably didn’t have a noticeable case, but was tested routinely, and SARSit isn’t really contagious until a day or two before symptoms become noticeable. It was detected through her first. But most likely somebody else infected all three – and more. And probably they were more than six feet away.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  298. @307. C’mon, Sammy, they’re in bed w/each other. Perhaps literally.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  299. The per capita daily case rate and death rate in NY has been among the lowest in the nation for months.

    You can cherry pick the time frame all you like. Pick whatever time and state suits you, Dave. It’s irrelevant to the point you’re avoiding, which is we have a strong system of federalism while the countries you’re cheerleading for don’t. You don’t like our system of local control, I get it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d99bc8)

  300. 262. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 9:51 am

    Truthfully, that recording made me like her more. She’s right to find that stuff without meaning or purpose, and she is right to be frustrated that anything she tries to do that is good will be destroyed.

    Not destroyed, but nobody is interested in it. She said she didn’t want to give the story to Fox because anyway they are on their side. I didn’t know she was so political. The other media wasn’t interested because to them it presented a false picture of Trump: helping illegal immigrants instead of hurting them. But she’s entitled to mitigate the effects of his policy.

    By the way, Trump has dropped economics (false economic actually) and is resting his case for limiting immigration (this applies more to legal immigration than illegal immigration) on the grounds that, if given the chance, people will flock to the United States from all over the world for medical treatment and that will cost too much.

    In other words, let them die or suffer from cleft palate etc.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  301. I think the idea that Hope Hicks gave it to Donald Trump and Melania doesn’t have much of abasis for it.

    Nevertheless, I bet Trump groped her and Pence didn’t.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  302. The most wild and implausible conspiracy theory is that the virus started in a hostile country and was knowingly allowed to spread, causing an annoying nemesis to lose an election. Crazy.

    beer ‘n pretzels (076a89) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:01 pm

    Is this guy for real? This theory is so sound that it can be offered as sarcastic mockery of people who don’t buy it? Everything is a conspiracy to get Trump! Everything is about Trump!

    Dustin (4237e0)

  303. Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:40 pm

    dropped economics (false economic actually) and is resting his case for limiting immigration (this applies more to legal immigration than illegal immigration) on the grounds that, if given the chance, people will flock to the United States from all over the world for medical treatment and that will cost too much

    That sounds a bit like an economic argument.

    In other words, let them die or suffer from cleft palate etc.

    as opposed to a moral argument.

    frosty (f27e97)

  304. You can cherry pick the time frame all you like.

    The way things are *now* is kind of relevant(*), don’t you think?

    It’s irrelevant to the point you’re avoiding, which is we have a strong system of federalism while the countries you’re cheerleading for don’t.

    So it was for the sake of “federalism” that Trump encouraged people (“LIBERATE MICHIGAN”, etc) to flaunt the reopening guidelines that his own WH task force had released the day before?

    That he derided and lied about science-based public health precautions for months, as recently as Tuesday night’s debate?

    If Trump encouraged states to poison their drinking water, and half did, would you cite “federalism” as a defense?

    (*) Unless you’re Deezy-eska, ofc.

    Dave (1bb933)

  305. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:46 pm

    Is this guy for real? This theory is so sound that it can be offered as sarcastic mockery of people who don’t buy it? Everything is a conspiracy to get Trump! Everything is about Trump!

    As opposed to the ever versitile “this looks racist to me prove it isn’t” and “claiming things aren’t racist is racist” theories?

    frosty (f27e97)

  306. But the real question is: who plays him in the movie?

    I hope it’s a black woman. Trump’s body is an overpowering distraction from his behavior.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  307. The per capita daily case rate and death rate in NY has been among the lowest in the nation for months.

    It’s going up, somewhat, mainly in the highly Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, in New York and also in New Jersey.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-hotspots-grow-to-11-account-for-30-of-new-cases-citywide/2647981

    Governor Andrew Cuomo is threatening fines on the city. He says the time for education has passed and now is the time for enforcement. He’s actually bluffing. And of course he never thought of fining himself for the nursing homes. The worst mistake there, by the way, was excluding visitors, even with PPE. They would have seen what is going on (no place without visitors has checks on things going bad) and this resulted in delaying for weeks the correction of policy.

    The culprit for the uptick may be large gatherings, including illegal weddings (where some guests would come from outside the New York “pod”) and the fact that, for all the probable significant herd immunity, there is not 100% herd immunity, and not everybody got it.

    I think immunity nationwide is higher than 10% to 15% and more like 60% to 65% (and we started with 40%) because of immunity to the common cold coronaviruses. There are 4 cowpox versions of this disease.

    Some people are afraid of Covid. And others don’t wear masks.

    There could be acomplaint of a double standard. When Jews ave a higher rate because of behavior, (and you can drill down to a subset) he blames the Jews or the municipality for not enforcing the law. When American Americans or Hispanics have higher rates they only blame everybody else.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  308. What would help Trump the most is for him to go into the hospital, with a more or less good prognosis.

    The thought he might die could cause Never Trumpers to consider voting for him, while the thought he would recover completely – and there’s a 90% chance of that starting out) would maintain the enthusiasm and interest of the Trumpists.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  309. 307. No I think he just likes/d to look at Hope Hicks. She’s younger than Ivanka and he promised Ivanka, long ago, (before Melania came even) that he would never get involved with a woman younger than she is.

    And this is not a sexually transmitted disease, or , for all the cleaning – they never revise their recommendations -it is not transmitted by touching surfaces.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  310. The thought he might die could cause Never Trumpers to consider voting for him, while the thought he would recover completely – and there’s a 90% chance of that starting out) would maintain the enthusiasm and interest of the Trumpists.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/2/2020 @ 1:04 pm

    25th amendment. Yank him from power. They can have a hearing on whether he has regained his marbles after the election. But how great it would be if, as the states are called for Biden and Trump, Trump is powerless.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  311. he promised Ivanka, long ago, (before Melania came even) that he would never get involved with a woman younger than she is.

    What

    Dustin (4237e0)

  312. That he derided and lied about science-based public health precautions for months, as recently as Tuesday night’s debate?

    How did science-based public health precautions do post-George Floyd? Who ditched those? Ah yes, those reduced the spread if you’re one of those “real conservatives” who buys media narratives.

    The supreme irony is that Trump has failed (in your mind) to be the authoritarian you continually warned us he wanted to be.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d99bc8)

  313. That he derided and lied about science-based public health precautions for months, as recently as Tuesday night’s debate?

    How did science-based public health precautions do post-George Floyd? Who ditched those? Ah yes, those reduced the spread if you’re one of those “real conservatives” who buys media narratives.

    The supreme irony is that Trump has failed (in your mind) to be the authoritarian you continually warned us he wanted to be.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d99bc8) — 10/2/2020 @ 1:15 pm

    He’s failed to do the things that were within his power to do.
    It’s a shame that he’s sick. But it’s not unexpected.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  314. The most wild and implausible conspiracy theory is that the virus started in a hostile country and was knowingly allowed to spread, causing an annoying nemesis to lose an election. Crazy.

    beer ‘n pretzels (076a89) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:01 pm

    China would have also needed to know that Trump would screw up the response as badly as he did.
    Leaders that did a competent job in dealing with it saw a huge bump in approval. I think Dewine was at 90% approval at one point. All Trump had to do was show some some basic competence and this would likely have helped him. But he couldn’t do that. Because he’s incompetent.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  315. The supreme irony is that Trump has failed (in your mind) to be the authoritarian you continually warned us he wanted to be.

    I wouldn’t rush to judgment; we still have an election and a transition to get through.

    And he’s been twice the idiot I continually warned you he would be.

    So it all evens out.

    Dave (1bb933)

  316. I hope it’s a black woman.

    Good call.

    happyfeet should definitely audition.

    Dave (1bb933)

  317. Trump’s pre-spin seems to blame military, police interactions for coronavirus diagnosis
    ……
    …..[I]n the hours after we learned that counselor to the president Hope Hicks had tested positive for the novel coronavirus and before we learned Trump himself had it, he offered some strange comments that seemed to lay the groundwork for how he could explain his impending diagnosis: It might have come from the military or law enforcement.

    “You know, it’s very hard, when you’re with soldiers, when you’re with airmen, when you’re with Marines, and I’m with — and the police officers,” Trump said. “I’m with them so much. And when they come over here, it’s very hard to say, stay back, stay back. It’s a tough kind of a situation.”
    ……
    “But it’s very, very hard when you are with people from the military or … law enforcement, and they come over to you, and they want to hug you, and they want to kiss you, because we really have done a good job for them,” Trump said. “And you get close, and things happen.”
    …….
    Whether there’s some truth to it, here was the president effectively blaming military members and law enforcement for not being more careful when meeting their country’s leaders; there’s no other way to read it. It also didn’t allow for the idea that there should have been precautions to prevent these alleged scenes, which the Secret Service is more than capable of providing.
    …….
    The SS has its own problems with COVID-19.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  318. Gotta love those who in 2016 called A Handmaid’s Tale and the imminent concentration camps for gays ‘Trump’s America’ now telling us they weren’t full of cr@p because Trump just hasn’t done it yet.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  319. So much for the tolerant left!

    *cue laugh track*

    Davethulhu (f7bb9b)

  320. @331. The left is pretty tolerant;

    exhibit A: Joe Biden.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  321. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/2/2020 @ 12:58 pm

    Trump condemns KKK and white supremacists commenting on Charlottesville: “Racism is evil”

    Jim Acosta 8/14/17

    People are still lying about that one. It’s why Biden is running. But now:

    Trump has finally condemned white supremacists… on Hannity.

    Jim Acosta 10/1/20

    I’m going to go ahead on the record and say I condemn white supremacist groups.

    Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio 9/30/20

    This is true, but Proud Boys being about violence and hating N_____ and Jews is actually more evident.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/1/2020 @ 1:53 pm

    I noticed you’ve updated it to just Jews. It’s hard to call a group N_____ haters when the chairman and local leaders keep showing up looking a little darker than your average caucasian.

    frosty (f27e97)

  322. Gotta love those who in 2016 called A Handmaid’s Tale and the imminent concentration camps for gays ‘Trump’s America’ now telling us they weren’t full of cr@p because Trump just hasn’t done it yet.

    Who would that be?

    Well, just within the last week he’s expressed his wish to “get rid of the ballots” and refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power, or to call for his supporters to eschew violence in the aftermath of the election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  323. 325. Time123 (69b2fc) — 10/2/2020 @ 1:21 pm

    China would have also needed to know that Trump would screw up the response as badly as he did.

    He closed down a lot of travel but he did it badly and the contact tracing was incomptenet.

    The New York Times wrote yesterday that the World Health Organization gave bad advice:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/world/europe/ski-party-pandemic-travel-coronavirus.html

    … For decades, as trade and travel drew the world closer, public health policy, enshrined by treaty, encouraged global mass tourism by calling for open borders, even during outbreaks. [Not quite open borders, but it was open borders for the economically developed countries at least for travel. They wanted it for personal reasons.]

    When the coronavirus emerged in China in January, the World Health Organization didn’t flinch in its advice: Do not restrict travel. [The argument being that this only made sense if you could keep a disease entirely out of a country. If not, you have to fight it without restricting travel. Otherwise there’s no end to the travel restrictions and logically maybe no one should move more than 1 kilometer, if that, from where they sleep. And travel restrictions interfere with medical treatment and with getting doctors and nurses.]

    But what is now clear is that the policy was about politics and economics more than public health.

    Public health records, scores of scientific studies and interviews with more than two dozen experts show the policy of unobstructed travel was never based on hard science. It was a political decision, recast as health advice, which emerged after a plague outbreak in India in the 1990s. By the time Covid-19 surfaced, it had become an article of faith.

    “It’s part of the religion of global health: Travel and trade restrictions are bad,” said Lawrence O. Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University who helped write the global rules known as the International Health Regulations. “I’m one of the congregants.”

    Tell that to Joe Biden who says always listen to the scientists on everything.

    Trump is righr. Biden would have taken longer to cut off travel. Although maybe not two months and the result may not have been 2 million deaths instead of 200,000 (that’s what Trump is claiming)

    And from Scott Gottlieb:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scott-gottlieb-coronavirus-federal-health-officials-white-house-face-the-nation

    Gottlieb said officials with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention were telling the White House coronavirus task force that the virus was not spreading in the U.S. in February. In March, however, many governors began issuing stay-at-home orders and mandating businesses close once it was clear the coronavirus was rapidly spreading.

    “They said that they’re seeing no spike in people presenting with respiratory symptoms, therefore, coronavirus must not be spreading. And they were adamant about that,” he said. “I was talking to White House officials over this time period. They were adamant about that.”

    Gottlieb said he suspects Mr. Trump was also being told the coronavirus wasn’t spreading in the U.S.

    “That may have impacted what he did and didn’t say and his willingness to, you know, as he said, talk it down a little bit because he was of the perception that this was not spreading here in the United States,” he said. “That really was the tragic mistake, not just that we didn’t have the information, but we were so confident in drawing conclusions off of what proved to be faulty information and incomplete information.”

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  324. Dave (1bb933) — 10/2/2020 @ 2:00 pm

    Who would that be?

    Maybe you

    Well, just within the last week he’s expressed his wish to “get rid of the ballots” and refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power, or to call for his supporters to eschew violence in the aftermath of the election.

    Tranlation: forget about that last apocalyptic Trump prediction here’s what he’s about to do.

    frosty (f27e97)

  325. Leaders that did a competent job in dealing with it saw a huge bump in approval.

    Like Benjamin Netanyahuin Israel.

    Who is now suffering a decline in popularity because it’s coming back, worse than before.

    I would say because all they did last time was reset the clock. The virus was not defeated, just held off.

    Someone wrote it’s worse because this time they are not using hydroxychlroquine to treat incipient cases

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israels-covid-silence-mystery

    Why do we now have over 1,200 deaths when, in the peak of the first curve, our mortality rate was just over 300? Why the 400% difference?…

    …But no one is talking about how to stop early stage sufferers from deteriorating into hospitalization and worse.

    Are our local doctors and clinics being allowed to do everything possible to stop early stage patients from becoming hospitalized and dying?

    The answer is no. They are not. In fact, these first-line physicians, who have intimate professional contact with their patients, are being prevented from treating them successfully.

    Were Israeli doctors prescribing something in the first wave that prevented massive mortality figures they are not prescribing now?

    The answer is yes.

    Local doctors and clinics are being prevented from prescribing a drug that worked before, but is banned now. The drug that dare not speak its name is hydroxychloroquine…

    After studying the clinical trials, he concluded, among the things, that they applied the drug incorrectly, even in dangerously high dosages, often not in combination with other drugs, to patients who had little chance of surviving with any drug.

    Professor Risch is an ardent advocate for the application of HCQ in combination with other medications to early stage patients, as is Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, an Orthodox American physician, who came up with the Zelenko Protocol which details, for local doctors and clinics dealing with early stage Covid patients, how to prescribe and monitor patients starting in the first five days of contracting the coronavirus….,,

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  326. Maybe you

    I had no idea what The Handmaid’s Tale was until I looked it up on Wikipedia a week or two ago. Also, since the series premiered in April 2017, few would have understood references to it in 2016.

    Not that you’re much concerned with accuracy, of course, but still.

    forget about that last apocalyptic Trump prediction here’s what he’s about to do he just said.

    Fixed.

    Dave (1bb933)

  327. Trump Receives Experimental Drug Treatment for Mild Symptoms

    President Trump remained “fatigued but in good spirits” on Friday after receiving a promising experimental drug to treat Covid-19, according to a memo from his doctor, and was expected to undergo tests at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and to remain there for a few days on the advice of his doctors.
    ……
    The treatment the president received is an antibody cocktail developed by the biotech company Regeneron, according to a memo from his doctor, Dr. Sean P. Conley. Mr. Trump is also taking vitamin D, zinc, melatonin, a daily aspirin and famotidine (an antacid better known as Pepcid), the memo said.

    There are no approved treatments for Covid-19, but the Regeneron treatment is one of the most promising candidates, along with another antibody treatment developed by Eli Lilly. Both are being tested in patients around the country.

    Initial results have suggested that they can reduce the level of the virus in the body and possibly shorten hospital stays — when they are given early in the course of infection.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  328. In German there is a word, schadenfreude. It means taking pleasure in the suffering of a despised other. In other words, laughing at their pain, or making a mockery of their troubles.

    This is shadenfreudelicious. That’s a word I made up. It means taking extra special delight in the suffering of a despised other.

    I personally don’t laugh at Trump, because he is humorless. Nor do I make a mockery of his troubles, because they are severe. It’s just that the irony is so rich here.

    Trump has downplayed the coronavirus, from the beginning. He’s discounted advice from the CDC, experts on epidemiology. He’s insulted people for wearing masks and social distancing, while holding huge rallies in defiance.

    And now he, his family and staff, has the disease? It’s all just such a pathetic joke.

    Look, I can’t go anywhere down here without wearing a mask. I can’t enter into any business or bank without wearing a mask. I cannot.

    This is where we are, at least here. And to think the POTUS has been infected and probably spread the virus around is shameful.

    This guy needs to go.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  329. Chris Wallace has some words

    Appearing Friday on “Fox & Friends” and other Fox News programs, Mr. Wallace repeatedly emphasized the threat of the coronavirus, pointed out the lack of qualifications of one of Mr. Trump’s top medical advisers, and said he was acutely aware of his potential exposure after the president had tested positive for the virus.
    “Follow the science,” Mr. Wallace said. “If I could say one thing to all of the people out there watching: Forget the politics. This is a public safety health issue.”
    […]
    “I’m going to say something and, folks, I’m just trying to give you the truth,” Mr. Wallace said. “Dr. Scott Atlas is not an epidemiologist, is not an infectious disease expert — he has no training in this area at all. There are a number of top people on the president’s coronavirus task force who have had grave concerns about Scott Atlas and his scientific bona fides.”
    “I know I’m going to get a lot of pushback from this,” Mr. Wallace continued, adding: “Listen to people like Anthony Fauci, listen to people like Deborah Birx, who have been largely cut off. Listen to the independent people who do not have a political ax to grind, and I frankly don’t think Scott Atlas is one of those people.”

    Full video here. Wallace may get fired before Fauci does.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  330. Trump mocks Hillary when she was sick.

    Imagine the fainting of many commenters upthread if Hillary said this stuff of Trump today. They would call her a monster.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  331. My opposition to Trump is, and has always been, based on his immorality, mental instability and ignorance – often abbreviated as “unfitness” – not his policies.

    If he were a respectable person, and qualified for the office, I would support him despite disagreeing with some of his policies to varying degrees.

    Dave (1bb933)

  332. Great. Let’s trade an immoral and unstable president for one who will inflict immoral and unstable policies on the country. Quite an upgrade.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d99bc8)

  333. Great. Let’s trade an immoral and unstable president for one who will inflict immoral and unstable policies on the country. Quite an upgrade.

    If I thought Biden’s policies would result in 200,000+ unnecessary American deaths a year, I wouldn’t vote for him.

    I know Trump’s have.

    Dave (1bb933)

  334. BREAKING- PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP BEING TRANSPORTED TO WALTER REED BY CHOPPER.

    Drama, drama, drama.

    What. A. Showman.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  335. Jennifer Rubin [Washington Post]
    @JRubinBlogger

    for a normal car it is 33 min to Walter Reed and no traffic, with a motorcade likely much faster. So WHY is he being flown?
    _ _

    Bonus Wagner
    @BWagner
    ·
    Apparently Jen hasn’t seen any people stopping traffic lately as a political statement.
    __ _

    Drew Holden
    @DrewHolden360
    ·
    Watching Rubin tweet today has been like watching a family member devolve into a QAnon believer, but compressed into a single day.

    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  336. Not a trump supporter!

    Dustin (4237e0)

  337. @347. If you could get a ride by chopper or car— you’d go by chopper. Easier to fly; no motorcade to assemble or traffic to clear. On a Friday.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  338. Fox News Stars to Be Tested After Attending Debate Night
    ……
    Lachlan Murdoch, executive chairman of the Fox Corporation, led a toast to Chris Wallace, the “Fox News Sunday” anchor who moderated the debate, at a Cleveland airport after the event. The gathering included two of the channel’s news anchors, Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum, along with the chief executive of Fox News Media, Suzanne Scott, and its president, Jay Wallace.
    …….
    Sean Hannity, Fox News’s top-rated opinion star, also broadcast from inside the debate hall, during which he conducted an in-person interview with the president’s son, Donald J. Trump Jr., who sat only a few inches away from Mr. Hannity. Other Fox News personalities were on a set outside the venue, including the political analysts Brit Hume, Dana Perino, and Juan Williams, and the anchor Bill Hemmer. Karl Rove, the Republican strategist and Fox News contributor, was also there.
    ……..
    Fox News declined to comment on Friday. But a person familiar with the network’s workings said that Fox News was taking precautions, including testing, to ensure the safety of the hosts, reporters, and staff who were potentially exposed to the virus at the Cleveland debate or were in proximity to the White House over the past week. ……

    John Roberts, the network’s chief White House correspondent, and Jon Decker, a Fox News Radio correspondent, both attended a White House news briefing with Mr. Trump’s press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, on Thursday. The two correspondents are also expected to be tested for the virus.
    ……….
    If America is lucky they could all be forced to quarantine for a couple of weeks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  339. Tim Alberta
    @TimAlberta

    BTW — the media’s credibility is essential right now, too.

    No speculation. No single-sourcing. Get corroborations and confirmations before publishing sensitive information. The world will remember mistakes.
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze

    So do nothing it’s currently doing.
    __

    harkin (902cc1)

  340. To paraphrase Trump, this is the word, it’s what they are saying.

    Campaign advisers are also gaming out how Trump’s COVID diagnosis will play out with only 32 days left until the election. Sources I spoke with are doubtful the next two debates will happen. “There really can be nothing for 14 days. It’s as if the campaign ended yesterday,” a second former West Wing official told me. Republicans close to Trump are discussing what kind of message Trump should put out that might limit the political damage. “He could come out and say, ‘Look, I had COVID and it wasn’t that bad. It just shows that I’m strong and we should open up the country,’” the former West Wing official said. “He could make a mockery of it.”

    I can see Trump doing that over trying contrition or humility.

    Meanwhile, Hicks has experienced more pronounced symptoms than the president. Two sources said she has had a high fever and a cough, with one source adding she lost her sense of smell. Hicks is said to be frustrated with Trump for taking such a cavalier approach to the virus. She was one of the few West Wing staffers to wear a mask in meetings, which her colleagues chided her for. “She was made fun of because she wore a mask,” a friend said. Sources told me Hicks is also upset that news coverage has made it appear that she gave Trump the virus, when in fact no one knows where he got it. “It’s so unfair she’s sort of being blamed,” the friend told me.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  341. ‘The President is strong, healthy and fit.” – “Doctor” Sean Hannity, 2 AM, EDT, October 2, 2020

    Hilarious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  342. @341. Nobody give a damn what Chris Wallace says anymore.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  343. a recovered trump making a mockery of ti and using the presidency to argue that it’s not a problem and we should just reopen now … seems highly, highly likely.

    another reason he should be driven from office posthaste.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  344. Dr. Hannity may have his prognosis, but Dr. Atlas is positively gushing:

    “It is no surprise that people get the infection, even with precautions,” Atlas told Fox News. “I anticipate a complete and full and rapid recovery back to normal after his necessary confinement period. I anticipate he’ll be back on the road and in full swing.”
    Atlas, a neuroradiologist, called Trump a “super vigorous man” and said he’s “never seen anyone with more energy and more vigor, at any age, but particularly at his age.”
    “He is a very, very healthy guy,” Atlas said. “And the overwhelming majority of people, even at his age, do fine with this. He is very healthy, and so I anticipate the same for him.”

    The answer: 18 inches.
    The question: How far is Atlas’ head implanted in Trump’s ass?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  345. (Atlas has) “never seen anyone with more energy and more vigor, at any age, but particularly at his age.”

    That’s what happens when you use crack.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  346. Nikki Haley is tan, rested and ready.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  347. What. A. Showman.

    Not quite up there with Nixon’s South Lawn landing after meeting with Mao.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  348. The Probable Outcomes of Trump’s Diagnosis

    Donald Trump is 74, and he is male.

    Little else is known about his physical condition. Throughout his presidency, he has disclosed almost nothing in the way of medical records. He stands accused, by one of his former doctors, of dictating his medical assessment as a candidate in 2016. Even Trump’s body-mass index—a basic, objective measure of a person’s body weight divided by their height—is disputed. His reported height increased by an inch in his 2018 physical exam, which left him one pound shy of obese for his height.
    ……
    Death is not the most likely outcome, but it is far from unlikely. Based on age and sex alone, Trump is at high or very high risk for severe disease. Eight percent of COVID-19 patients ages 65 to 74 die from the disease. Those 75 to 84 are at far higher risk: 18 percent die. And men are significantly more likely to die of COVID-19 than women. Obesity is also predictive of a severe course. Compared with people in the “normal” BMI range, obese patients are 74 percent more likely to be admitted to an ICU and 48 percent more likely to die. (Despite the uncertainty about Trump’s precise BMI classification, his risk is demonstrably elevated.)
    ……
    ……But we know that Trump’s lifestyle does not portend an optimized immune system. His sleep schedule is erratic, he does not exercise, and he subsists on fast food and declines vegetables. He is prone to angry outbursts. These lifestyle factors, taken together, are suggestive of impaired resiliency, and could leave him more susceptible to being laid low by the virus.

    But a key variable in Trump’s case is that, because he is president, he will have the best possible medical monitoring and care. Should he need it, Trump will have care at the world’s best hospitals from doctors such as Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious-disease expert, whose advice Trump has spurned and rejected. …….
    ……..
    Hopefully he hasn’t pissed off the doctors too much.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  349. The entire news weekend meme shifted instantly from white supremacy to COVID.

    Not to worry, if Trump only has a mild case he’ll be the Grand Wizard again by next weekend.
    _

    harkin (902cc1)

  350. Trump was pretty desperate to change the narrative.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  351. Yup. Either Putin ordered Melania to infect him or his aides infected him to keep him from nuking Denmark, but the strongest possibility still is that he seized on Hope Hicks’ infection to fake his own.

    nk (1d9030)

  352. Breaking: North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis tested positive for COVID-19, according to a statement issued Friday night.

    He was at Typhoid Amy’s Rose Garden Bugfest last Saturday, too

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  353. well you failed the human test, congrats, I’ll collect my winnings now,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  354. @360. Actually it as the departure for China which was South Lawn flashy; Pat and Dick returned to Andrews. But aside from the 8/9/74 resignation sortie, President Nixon became the first president ever to arrive at the U.S. Capitol by helicopter: June 1, 1972. He landed for an address before a joint session of Congress; Nixon made the address on national television immediately following his return from the Moscow summit. [UPI archives has some great stills of it.] The CBS News television feed [reported by the late George Herman] is the opening segment of the film, ‘All The President’s Men.’ — as 16 nights later, the burglars were caught in the Watergate. To stay “perfectly clear” as a Nixon apologist you gotta bone up on your Big Dick, Kevin 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  355. (Atlas has) “never seen anyone with more energy and more vigor, at any age, but particularly at his age.”

    “Dr Atlas, the US Decathlon team on line one.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  356. He was at Typhoid Amy’s Rose Garden Bugfest last Saturday, too

    DCSCA is testing boundaries again.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  357. @369. Well, it’s not like she tossed infected blankets of smallpox into the assembled ‘tribe’, Kevin 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  358. DCSCA is testing boundaries again.

    He’s kind of like happyfeet, except not funny or endearing.

    Dave (1bb933)

  359. Trump campaign manager tests positive for Covid-19
    Donald Trump’s campaign manager has tested positive for Covid-19, dealing another blow to his reelection effort on a day that saw the president and the head of the Republican National Committee report contracting the disease as well.

    Bill Stepien received his diagnosis Friday evening and was experiencing what one senior campaign official described as “mild flu-like symptoms.” People familiar with the situation said the 42-year-old Stepien plans to quarantine until he recovers.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (1b7516)

  360. Chris Christie has tested positive for Covid19.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  361. “The City of Cleveland is continuing contact tracing after being made aware of 11 positive cases of coronavirus following Tuesday’s presidential debate.

    City officials say the cases stem from pre-debate planning and set-up, with the majority of cases occurring among out-of-state residents.”

    steveg (43b7a5)


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