Patterico's Pontifications

9/4/2020

Cheater in Chief: No, I Totally Did Mean You Should Vote Twice

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:31 am



It’s a recurring pattern, and it always happens in three steps:

1. Donald Trump says something indefensible
2. Donald Trump’s flacks say he didn’t mean the bad thing, he meant something else
3. Donald Trump reaffirms that no, he really meant the bad thing

Two nights ago I wrote about Step 1 in Trump’s bid to have his followers vote twice:

“So let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote,” Trump said when asked whether he has confidence in the mail-in system in North Carolina, a battleground state.

“If it’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote. So that’s the way it is. And that’s what they should do,” he said.

Then came Step 2: people pointed to his flack’s explanation that he is really just saying you go to the voting place and make sure they have counted your mail-in vote by election day. Which is a stupid explanation, because states are not going to require that mail-in votes be counted by election day, so the implication that there’s something wrong if they haven’t is totally false. But hey, lying flacks gotta work with the material they have, and they know chump suckers will lap it up no matter how illogical it is.

Welcome to Step 3:

Sign your mail-in ballot. OK? You sign it and send it in and then you have to follow it. And if on Election Day or early voting, that is not tabulated and counted, you go vote. And then if for some reason after that, it shouldn’t take that long, it comes in, they’re not going to be able to tabulate it because you will have voted. But you have to make sure your vote counts. Because the only way they’re gonna beat us is by doing that kind of stuff. I’m trying to be nice.

He’s telling people to vote by mail and then to vote again in person, which is cheating. Yes, hopefully the state catches it, but because Trump is telling his people to do this, it will happen on a massive scale, which of course will complicate the counting.

He is advocating that people commit felony voter fraud, and a bunch of people who have spent years wailing about voter fraud will defend him. Which makes those people frauds too.

136 Responses to “Cheater in Chief: No, I Totally Did Mean You Should Vote Twice”

  1. The simplest explanation for all this is that Mr. Trump does not understand the election process.

    Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one.

    John B Boddie (bfc42b)

  2. I will repeat myself. Trump maxed out his vote in 2016 and a great part of it was anti-Hillary. He will not get more than 63 million votes this time around, and very likely he will get a lot less. He knows this. He knows who his people are, and how many there are. His only chance is to rig the election by any means possible.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. Meanwhile, people who’ve spent years wailing about how terrible Democrats and their policies are will vote for Biden because Orange Man Bad. Which also makes those people frauds.

    Edoc118 (2dc47f)

  4. I will repeat myself. I doesn’t matter why Trump is telling people to commit a felony. It’s the fact that a sitting President of the United States is telling voters to commit a felony on his behalf.

    Meanwhile, people who’ve spent years wailing about how terrible Democrats and their policies are will vote for Biden because Orange Man Bad. Which also makes those people frauds.

    So what? If those voters are frauds, that still doesn’t change the fact that a sitting President of the United States is telling voters to commit a felony on his behalf. That should be roundly condemned by everyone on both sides of the aisle.

    Dana (292df6)

  5. The simplest explanation for all this is that Mr. Trump does not understand the election process.

    Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one.

    John, do you think that if someone explains to him that votes aren’t necessarily counted by election day, that be would change his tune and take it back? I don’t. I think he will say this is why you can’t have mail-in voting because if they can’t know that means there’s probably fraud. He is saying anything that will get him more votes and I believe he truly could not care less whether those votes are fraudulent.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  6. Meanwhile, people who’ve spent years wailing about how terrible Democrats and their policies are will vote for Biden because Orange Man Bad. Which also makes those people frauds.

    Incanting the phrase “Orange Man Bad” is a way to dismiss evil with a sneer.

    It is not hypocritical to oppose Democrat policies but to vote for the Democrat when the Republican alternative is evil and a cheat. It is hypocritical to complain about voter fraud and to support this. This means you. If you complained about voter fraud and you support this, you, personally, are a hypocrite and a fraud.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  7. I cannot respect anyone who supports this. It’s a red line.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  8. This is going to lead to violence.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  9. Trump is a toilet that needs to be flushed no matter what else will fill it later.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. Which is a stupid explanation, because states are not going to require that mail-in votes be counted by election day,

    That might be the problem here.

    How many times have we seen races magically shift because votes are miraculously ‘found’? Remember Al Franken’s election? That stank so bad it should’ve ended in a federal investigation — but nope.

    So yeah, burn the entire mail in vote idea to the ground till we get better security.

    You know, I’ve been itching to ask this for a while, Patrick. Is there more to this than just ‘I don’t like Trump’? I’ve watched you since 2015 and I’d honestly swear it was personal for you.

    This is going to lead to violence.

    ‘Lead to’? What’s this ‘lead to’, kemosabe? We’ve GOT violence NOW.

    Capsaicin Addict (041266)

  11. planned parenthood type flushing?

    mg (8cbc69)

  12. “…because Orange Man Bad” I couldn’t have said it better myself. The Orange Man IS bad.

    Roger (a5bda3)

  13. @5 – “John, do you think that if someone explains to him that votes aren’t necessarily counted by election day, that be would change his tune and take it back? I don’t.”

    I don’t either. People have been explaining things to him since he’s been in office (masks, North Korea, the coal industry) and the explanations have made no difference. He has an unshakeable belief that acknowledging mistakes shows weaknness.

    The only thing that matters to him is winning the daily news cycle.

    John B Boddie (bfc42b)

  14. if mr president donald trump who has an article two where he has the right to do whatever he wants as president says to do it then that makes it legal

    its very frustrating to have to keep explaining this

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. “How many times have we seen races magically shift because votes are miraculously ‘found’? ”

    It’s not magic or miraculous.

    Davethulhu (4c5c2a)

  16. The public officials in North Carolina are lying when they claim, or seem to be claiming, that casting a vote by mail and then going to the polls to vote and having both votes count, is possible.

    https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/vote-mail/faqs-voting-mail-north-carolina-2020

    If I’ve received my ballot by mail, may I still vote in person?

    Yes. You may still vote in person as long as you did not return your absentee ballot. Your absentee ballot will be spoiled after you vote in person.

    Can I vote the ballot and return it to the county board of elections, but change my mind and cancel my ballot and vote on Election Day instead?

    No. Once you return your ballot, you may not change or cancel your ballot.

    It’s illegal maybe to change your vote.

    Can you do it?

    Yes, provided it has not yet been processed.

    Is that legal?

    Probably not, but it is not a crime, either.

    Why don’t say they say that?

    A> Because the officials in North Carolina don’t want people to understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  17. John B Boddie (bfc42b) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:36 am

    The simplest explanation for all this is that Mr. Trump does not understand the election process.

    He doesn’t understand it, or what he said gets things garbled, or he wants trot pretend the process is other than what it is (he’s really saying Democrats will do this)

    Trump is most likely, trolling.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  18. Both Trump and the officials in North Carolina, are counting on people not understanding what the election process is.

    This is the situation:

    https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/vote-mail

    When your ballot is accepted by your county board of elections, that information will be posted in your voter record.

    They deliberately do not make it clear, perhaps because you are not supposed to be able to retract your mail-in vote, but before that a person most likely can vote in person.

    And if they voted in person, then when the time comes to accept the mail ballot, it will be rejected, just like it would be if a signature was missing.

    North Carolina almost certainly does not rely on the honor system to prevent someone from voting twice – both ways. Only one cote is going to be count.

    he Democrats don;t want people to understand that, if they vote by mail, they can still change their vote provided the ballot has not yet been marked as received.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  19. He’s back to mocking Biden for wearing a mask again, too:

    “But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him,” Trump asked a campaign rally crowd in Pennsylvania on Thursday of former Vice President Joe Biden. “And then he makes a speech, and he always has it — not always, but a lot of times, he has it hanging down. Because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist — right? I’d say, this guy’s got some big issues. Hanging down.”

    Trump should be seeing a whole team of psychiatrists.

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. Let’s see, from your post.

    If I’ve received my ballot by mail, may I still vote in person?
    Yes. You may still vote in person as long as you did not return your absentee ballot. Your absentee ballot will be spoiled after you vote in person.

    Also

    He doesn’t understand it, or what he said gets things garbled, or he wants trot pretend the process is other than what it is (he’s really saying Democrats will do this)

    It may be a problem if the President of the United States is too much of a moron to comprehend what an election is and what voting means. Maybe, YMMV, but this is only the 3rd or 4th disqualifying thing that he’s done this week. The ongoing mismanagement of Covid is #1, by the time Biden takes over for him in January we’ll be closing in on 500k deaths from Covid.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  21. More:

    Will I be notified if my absentee ballot is rejected? Will I have a chance to remedy any deficiencies?

    County boards of elections will contact voters when there are deficiencies with their absentee ballot. You should provide your phone number or email address on the request form in case the county board needs to contact you. The State Board encourages voters to carefully read and follow the instructions that come with the ballot. The State Board also encourages voters to request and return their absentee ballot as early as possible to ensure time remains to correct any issues. If an issue arises and the voter is unable to successfully cast an absentee ballot, that voter may still vote during the in-person early voting period or on Election Day.

    And even if there;s not a problem, but they just changed their mind before the ballot is accepted.

    Although people probably are not supposed to do that in North Carolina, or even if they are allowed to, there’s no guarantee that they will able to replace their absentee ballot with an in person one..

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  22. mr. president donald trump, whose fundamentalist supporters all firmly believe that incest should be kept in the family, knows that the coronavirus is a democrat hoax to shut down the economy and keep him from being reelected

    which is why he disdains masks and has his staff tested only twice a day

    nk (1d9030)

  23. He is advocating that people commit felony voter fraud, and a bunch of people who have spent years wailing about voter fraud will defend him.

    Are these the same frauds who supported voter ID laws, but who now cheer for near universal mail in voting?

    beer ‘n pretzels (9c07d7)

  24. @3 Is there a reason you don’t think that telling people to commit felonies, enabling the deaths of 190,000 people, and submitting our foreign policy to Putin’s might be judged to be worse than the possibility of 2 yrs of bad policy? (When a party overreaches when they have the majority, most of the time one of the bodies of Congress switches back, we saw this with both Trump and Obama.) It is possible to not like one thing, but think another is worse.

    Nic (896fdf)

  25. testing is a double edged sword mr nk its good for president donald and everyone he meets but very bad for the rest of us

    if we didnt test whether people were breathing we would have fewer deaths than north korea which has none

    its obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. huh/dead babies/2020

    mg (8cbc69)

  27. planned parenthood type flushing?

    mg (8cbc69) — 9/4/2020 @ 9:33 am

    Trump has not prevented a single abortion in the three and two-thirds years he has been in office. Not one single blessed one. He very likely has been the cause of more than one with all his catting around trying to prove his manliness. Do you doubt it?

    nk (1d9030)

  28. I understand why Republicans, as well as some conservatives, would vote for Biden because Trump is and idiot. (I would not say evil; that is an overused term these days and should be saved for the worst sociopaths among us).

    But it’s never just “Biden is less evil than Trump.” It’s also Harris vs. Pence. Biden’s SCOTUS picks vs. Trump’s. Not only that, it’s a Democrat controlled House (and possibly Senate) and White House vs. a Democrat Congress and Senate vs. a Republican White House.

    The presidential election has a cascading effect that goes far beyond just Trump vs. Biden.

    Choose wisely.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  29. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 9/4/2020 @ 9:47 am

    It may be a problem if the President of the United States is too much of a moron to comprehend

    Oh he knows how the process works in North Carolina. And so do the North Carolina election officials.

    What did Trump say:

    So let them send it in and let them go vote [in person], and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote [in person]. If it [the absentee ballot] isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.. If it’s [the system] as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it [the absentee ballot] isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.”

    Pretty simple. Except that Trump uses the word tabulated. That would mean they opened it up already but I;m not sure they open it up. They may just accept it and mark the voter as having voted.

    Now Trump would like for some people to successfully vote twice, not because he wants his people to be able to do so, but because then he can go into court and argue that ALL absentee ballots cast in North Carolina should be thrown out.

    Since about 69% of the 2-party absentee votes are projected to be for Biden that could win him the state.

    If that fails, as is highly likely, he still could maybe hope he can prevent North Carolina from certifying any winner and have it absent from the Electoral college. And if he does that with a several swing states that went for Biden he could win a majority of the diminished Electoral College!

    Now such a scheme is not likely to work because the Democratic Governor and others will certify the slate of Democratic Electors as having won and they will cast their votes in December and it will be up to Congress to decide to count them.

    If things go that way, Mike Pence and others will have to put their foot down and say they will have nothing to do with that kind of nonsense.

    The ongoing mismanagement of Covid is #1, by the time Biden takes over for him in January we’ll be closing in on 500k deaths from Covid.

    Nom the number of deaths are going down.

    Also: On or before November 1 a vaccine will be made somewhat available, (maybe only the one that has to be kept frozen at minus 70 degrees Celsius) and Democrats will maybe be warning people against taking it.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  30. enabling the deaths of 190,000 people

    Any of those attributable to Gov. Cuomo?

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  31. Trump may have prevented some military women, posted pverseas, from getting abortions.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  32. Meh. He’s chumming. Baiting. It’s still surprising how many people still don’t get it about this guy. NYers know this act from the 80s backward and forwards. He’d make a publicity event out of just opening of a door. The pinstripes work.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. Trump has not prevented a single abortion in the three and two-thirds years he has been in office. Not one single blessed one.

    Countless times, Trump promised to appoint pro-life supreme court justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade.

    But, testifying under oath, both his supreme court nominees denied being pro-life or having any intention to overturn Roe v. Wade.

    It was just another lie to get gullible people to vote for him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. Trump has not prevented a single abortion in the three and two-thirds years he has been in office. Not one single blessed one.

    Can’t wait to hear the incessant wailing on this blog about some crackpot ruling by this or that Biden judge.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4bef1a)

  35. Merrick Garland was obviously the better choice, Dave.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4bef1a)

  36. Can’t wait to hear the incessant wailing on this blog about some crackpot ruling by this or that Biden judge.

    It’s the TDS or belief that Biden is some sort of middle-road Democrat. When looking at his actions, he has lurched left. He knows the drill at this point. Hold the door for Harris and the leftwing to take over. In the meantime, he’ll get his kids rich.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  37. @30 Gov. Cuomo isn’t in this race, so bringing him up is a distraction, but sure, he can share some blame for some of the 32,000 deaths in NY. Of course he also did things that saved people’s lives, so that could offset his mistakes as well, while Trump sits on his thumb or makes things worse.

    Nic (896fdf)

  38. @30 Gov. Cuomo isn’t in this race

    He is not in this race, but a good chunk of those 190k deaths you lay at Trump’s feet actually belong at Cuomo’s.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  39. Never trumpers/planned parenthood/2020

    mg (8cbc69)

  40. He is not in this race, but a good chunk of those 190k deaths you lay at Trump’s feet actually belong at Cuomo’s.

    All of them lay at the feet of China, but China isn’t in this race, so distraction.

    The many hundreds of thousands dead outside the US are also a distraction.

    beer ‘n pretzels (863611)

  41. first time in decades planned parenthood did not speak at the heels up convention

    mg (8cbc69)

  42. @19. But does he wear pants doing ‘Max Headroom?’

    This controlled, presser-by-committee Plagiarist JoeyBee is having in Wilmington now is like watching eggs fry on a sidewalk. No wonder they want to keep him away from live Q&A interactions on camera. It’s actually painful– and a little sad to watch.

    He’s too old for the CIC gig.

    “I don’t have a job now.” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/20

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. christians have a savior, they need a bodyguard

    mg (8cbc69)

  44. @42. ‘Bodyguard’ – is that ‘Joe Hiden’ code for a medical team on standby, 24/7?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. 1 Adam -12 We have a man down

    in his basement

    and he is not coming out

    mg (8cbc69)

  46. Well (or “waelll” as your bete noire would say), get the white vans on stand by and your Nat Faxon look alikes ready.

    urbanleftbehind (43c191)

  47. You think Biden sounds less coherent than Trump? I think that maybe you need a checkup.

    Trump is the least qualified person to ever run for dog catcher in American history, Biden isn’t.

    I love the Trump factions complete lack of any qualifying benefits of Trump, hundreds of excuses a day for the disqualifying acts. Every day he proves that he’s not worthy to clean up Biden’s dirty Depends. That doesn’t make Biden the second coming of a heroic Reagan, or Kennedy, or Teddy Roosevelt; it just makes him a minimally competent human being, where Trump is the stuff in the Depends, he’s filth. Period.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  48. @19. But does he wear pants doing ‘Max Headroom?’

    This controlled, presser-by-committee Plagiarist JoeyBee is having in Wilmington now is like watching eggs fry on a sidewalk. No wonder they want to keep him away from live Q&A interactions on camera. It’s actually painful– and a little sad to watch.

    He’s too old for the CIC gig.

    “I don’t have a job now.” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/20

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/4/2020 @ 10:39 am

    I really don’t understand Trump supporters desire to convince people that Biden is about to drool all over his shirt, fall asleep at the podium and collapse. How low a bar do you want him to have to clear at the debates?

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  49. lifetime gubmint military hacks are all the rage

    mg (8cbc69)

  50. After the voter casts a provisional ballot, the elections official will check the records to ensure that the voter did not cast their vote-by-mail ballot. If this is the case and the voter’s signature on the provisional ballot envelope matches the signature on the voter’s registration card, then the voter’s provisional ballot will be counted. (Elections Code sections 3016, 14310(f), 15350, 15100 et seq.) If the voter did vote and return their vote-by-mail ballot before the close of polls on Election Day, then the vote-by-mail ballot will be counted and the provisional ballot will not be counted. If the voter did vote and return their vote-by-mail ballot but failed to sign the vote-by-mail ballot envelope, then the voter’s provisional ballot will be counted, provided they complied with the instructions associated with the provisional ballot.

    https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/provisional-voting/

    Cheating?

    BuDuh (182c86)

  51. Tracking your vote-by-mail ballot—when it is mailed, received, and counted—has never been easier. The California Secretary of State is now offering Where’s My Ballot?—a new way for voters to track and receive notifications on the status of their vote-by-mail ballot. Powered by BallotTrax, Where’s My Ballot? lets voters know where their ballot is, and its status, every step of the way.

    https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/wheres-my-ballot/

    I guess people can check to see if their ballot was “received” on election day and go to their polling station if the Secretary of State’s ballot tracking software indicates that their mail in vote didn’t arrive in time.

    BuDuh (182c86)

  52. This is why I think any “mail in voting” schemes are a mistake.

    All votes should be done in person with small exceptions for those who cannot physically vote (ie, elderly, absentee, military, etc..)

    Frankly, advocates for “mail in voting” ought to demand that we fix our oversees military voting mechanism. Every year we hear massive problems there and many are not counted.

    whembly (7c17c7)

  53. Cheating?

    BuDuh (182c86)

    Yep. A If Hillary or Obama had made this demand of their fans before an election your head would have exploded, but if Trump does it, it’s time to check the fine print on some website to shrug it off.

    Cruz and the rest of the GOP have gone out of their way to defend Trump from every stupid thing he does, making suckers of Cruz supporters, other Republicans. That’s where this ‘nevertrumper’ stress comes from. We’re angry, being sneered at by liars who took advantage of our hope for a fair country, phonies who wound up carrying water for Trump, a bona fide traitor who thinks our fallen soldiers are suckers and betrays us every chance he gets.

    We’re getting closer to something bad the angrier folks get.

    Trump has long understood that civil unrest benefits his strongman mob persona. He wants more civil unrest. He understands that undermining democracy, riots, deaths, that all helps him with a certain demographic (weak people).

    Dustin (825e2c)

  54. This is why I think any “mail in voting” schemes are a mistake.

    It’s a pandemic with hundreds of thousands dead, so we’re just going to have to make some kind of remote voting work.

    One solution I like is for drastic penalties against anyone caught encouraging, attempting or effecting multiple votes or fraudulent votes.

    ought to demand that we fix our oversees military voting mechanism.

    Who cares? The military are dumb sucker losers that our president thinks aren’t worth spit, and millions of punks will vote for that president.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  55. I was asking if California’s SOS is advocating cheating, Dustin.

    BuDuh (1ef890)

  56. I was asking if California’s SOS is advocating cheating, Dustin.

    BuDuh (1ef890) — 9/4/2020 @ 11:57 am

    You were actually defending Trump demanding his fans vote twice.

    Many Trump defenses involve a bad faith comparison to something similar or different, a normal thing twisted to seem bad, maybe actually bad meant to change the subject. Muddying the waters, changing the subject. I get it. I’d be desperate to change the subject if I were committed to Trump.

    So instead of talking about a different jurisdiction’s election official’s instructions about an unrelated mechanism that is superficially kinda like huge numbers of Trump fanatics voting twice to ‘test’ the system, just tell me, is it OK to vote twice?

    Picture Obama, at a rally, in the city nearest you, telling his fans to vote three times for Biden, laughing that it’s not up to you to make sure that’s not cheating so don’t worry about that, just vote three times. Is that OK? If an Obama fan told you this is cool because it proves how bad absentee voting is, and won’t someone please think of the military, wouldn’t you recognize the way to address those issues is through normal legislative processes, not with stunts telling millions of people to destroy the thing you don’t like?

    you know what you’re doing.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  57. I was asking if California’s SOS is advocating cheating, Dustin.

    It’s almost like we have an election system where states define voting process and requirements, from that silly old piece of paper. Trump was in North Carolina, speaking to North Carolinians, where it’s a felony. In California, also a crime. In other states it just invalidates both votes, but that’s only in those pesky states like Ohio, and Penn and Florida.

    Oh, and in case it’s not a crime in just the state, it’s also against federal law in a federal election.

    Under California Elections Code 18560, every person is guilty of a crime who “votes more than once, attempts to vote more than once, or knowingly hands in two or more ballots folded together at that election.”

    The crime is punishable by imprisonment of between 16 months and three years, according to the state elections code.

    “Intentionally voting twice in the same election is, indeed, illegal. Clearly so. And straightforward to prosecute, because there’s always a paper trail,” Justin Levitt, a Loyola Law School professor and elections expert wrote in an email.

    Voting twice is also a crime under federal law, specifically under U.S Code Title 52, which reads: “Whoever votes more than once in an election … shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”

    So even if its not a crime, Trump is to dumb to know that if his sycophants actually followed his advice, he’s hurting himself.

    He’s a moron, saying moronic things, this isn’t new news.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  58. o

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  59. Under California Elections Code 18560, every person is guilty of a crime who “votes more than once, attempts to vote more than once,

    That doesn’t jive with the SOS explanation of how a provisional ballot is verified and the decision the election official makes if he/she has received both a mail in ballot and a provisional ballot from the same voter. Is the election official breaking the law?

    BuDuh (e995e9)

  60. Well said, Klink.

    It is not unheard of to remove someone from a ballot for interference or cheating.

    It is just probably too late. Perhaps this was one reason to hold the convention on the south lawn. Nobody is going to remove the president from the ballot if the convention is at the white house, tightly controlled by the president, half the convention being his family because all elder statemen of the party are supporting his opponent.

    But in a fair system, no stretch at all, they should just remove Trump’s name from the ballot, give the GOP the opportunity to select a candidate who has not attempted to interfere with the election like Saddam Hussein or Putin.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  61. North Carolina:

    Reasons for Provisional Voting

    •Voter Already Voted – A voter’s record indicates that the voter has already cast a ballot in the election.

    https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/provisional-voting

    Strange rule…

    BuDuh (e995e9)

  62. muddying the waters to defend what you know is wrong

    Dustin (825e2c)

  63. Huh?

    The way I see it is that in California the “new and improved” website will post whether or not your mail ballot was received. If on election day you notice that your ballot has not been received then you can go to the polling station and fill out a provisional ballot. The election officials have a procedure should they receive both a mail in and a provisional ballot from a single voter.

    If Trump was giving his advice here in California and didn’t say “tabulate,” where is the felony?

    BuDuh (b029a8)

  64. The Wall Street Journal had an editorial about this today:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says-vote-early-and-often-11599174742

    When President Trump objects to mass mail voting, the guardians of conventional wisdom rush to assure the public that absentee ballots are secure. Phrases like “no evidence” of “widespread fraud” are routine talking points. But then check out the panic attack this week.

    Speaking in North Carolina on Wednesday, Mr. Trump told his supporters to mail an absentee ballot, by all means. But he added that they should “check their vote,” by trying to cast a ballot at the polls on Election Day, to see if they’re marked down already. “If their system is as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote,” he said. “If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.”

    The press treated this as a bombshell, saying Mr. Trump had urged his fans to commit fraud by illegally voting twice. For the record, we’d discourage anyone from taking Mr. Trump’s advice. North Carolina’s Board of Elections put out a statement Thursday saying voters can find out from home whether their mail ballots have arrived. Checking at the polls “is not necessary, and it would lead to longer lines and the possibility of spreading COVID-19.”

    [Note: They didn’t say they’d be breaking the law if they came in and checked if they cold vote in person – SF]

    ….What if a North Carolinian put a ballot into that blue collection box a week before Election Day, but the tracking system doesn’t say it arrived?

    “If you mail in a ballot a week before the election and it’s not showing up, or you’re not able to determine whether or not it’s been accepted, you can vote in person,” Patrick Gannon, a spokesman for the North Carolina Board of Elections, said on a press call Thursday. “If your ballot subsequently arrives at the county board of elections, that vote will not be counted.”

    Officials discourage this, and they might investigate it, but North Carolina’s fraud statute requires bad intent….

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  65. New York State explicitly allows someone to vote in person for the purpose of changing a vote that is in the mail in ballot, although it doesn’t make that crystal clear, talking instead of a situation where somebody didn’t mail it back. (New York didn’t use to allow much absentee voting till this year – now anyone can request it and cite temporary disability ad every person will qualify.)/

    From the same Wall street Journal editorial:

    At least one state explicitly allows in-person voting to override an absentee ballot, in case a swing voter doesn’t stay swung. “The Election Law recognizes that plans change,” New York’s voting website says. “The Board of Elections is required to check the poll book before canvassing any absentee ballot.”

    The editorial links to this website:

    https://www.elections.ny.gov/votingabsentee.html

    Where you can see:

    You Can Still Vote in Person if You Request an Absentee Ballot

    Even if you request or cast and return an absentee ballot, you may still go to the polls and vote in person. The Election Law recognizes that plans change. The Board of Elections is required to check the poll book before canvassing any absentee ballot. If the voter comes to the poll site, on Election Day or during early voting and votes in person, the absentee ballot is set aside and not counted.

    For that reason, of course, no absentee ballots are opened or counted in New York State before the end of in person voting at the polls on Election Day.

    In other states, where is no other ballot, they can be. Or where the mailing out of an absentee ballot removes someone from the list of eligible voters.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  66. Officials discourage this, and they might investigate it, but North Carolina’s fraud statute requires bad intent….

    I think intending to destroy absentee voting because people who are afraid to go out right now are probably not Trump voters is a pretty bad intent. This chucklehead ‘I was just one of Trump’s voter integrity enforcers by voting 2 times’ argument is something every single one of these frauds should explain to a jury.

    Like I said a couple days ago, if everyone tries to crash into other cars on the highway, highways don’t work anymore. that doesn’t mean highways are a bad idea. Highways require cooperation. If a leader told people to prove his train was better than highways, and his supporters can prove it by crashing everyone they can, it’s not proof highways don’t work when that overwhelms enforcement.

    The real underline here is that this isn’t the year to destroy mail ballots. Plenty of folks are isolating for good reason.

    I hope Republican partisans don’t pretend they can’t see what’s coming next year if this works out for Trump. The scale of harm is too great. We’re really at a turning point as a country. Trump’s gotta go.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  67. “If you mail in a ballot a week before the election and it’s not showing up, or you’re not able to determine whether or not it’s been accepted, you can vote in person,” Patrick Gannon, a spokesman for the North Carolina Board of Elections, said on a press call Thursday. “If your ballot subsequently arrives at the county board of elections, that vote will not be counted.”

    Thanks, Sammy. Sounds just like California. No felony.

    BuDuh (97ecb6)

  68. This is all important and it’s treated like arcana. Somebody should compile a website that would tell you all the rules for all te states but then could you trust them to be correct? It should link back to official state websites/

    The Democratic and Republican National Committees, and therefore also Donald Trump, or his campaign staff, has to know all the rules, just like they know, or should know, all the rules about ballot access.

    They are just not published by the major news outlets, and some news outlets are allowing themselves to be spun.

    From the Wall Street Journal editorial today:

    “It’s like advising someone to try to rob a bank to see if the security is as good as the bank says it is,” Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simontold CNN.

    wsj.com links to

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/donald-trump-north-carolina-voter-fraud/index.html

    Every state is different.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  69. “It’s like advising someone to try to rob a bank to see if the security is as good as the bank says it is,” Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simontold CNN.

    Ridiculous. It is more like advising someone to check their bank account to see if a recent deposit cleared to make sure their withdrawals are covered. If the bank says they have no record of the deposit, you have an opportunity to make an emergency deposit before the bank closes.

    BuDuh (97ecb6)

  70. BuDuh,

    Bullshit. It is nothing like that because there is no guarantee your mail-in vote will be tabulated by Election Day. That does not justify the felony behavior you are urging.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  71. I had not read the statement from the spokesman. I will have to look into it further but even if it’s legal doing this on a massive scale will I traduces chaos in the counting process.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  72. there is no guarantee your mail-in vote will be tabulated by Election Day.

    Ok. But what happens if you go the the SOS website and their tracking system doesn’t show they have your ballot at all? Everyone is hung up on trump saying “tabulated” as if the only possibility is whether or not you are checking the SOS website to see how your vote was recorded prior to the closing of the polls. I think that is an incorrect take when you look at his statements in their entirety. It isn’t how Patrick Gannon, a spokesman for the North Carolina Board of Elections, interpreted Trump’s statement so I think it is fair to take his lead.

    BuDuh (97ecb6)

  73. I am surprised to read an election so official telling people to vote twice, but if he is really saying that, it bears investigation.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  74. Dustin (825e2c) — 9/4/2020 @ 1:21 pm

    I hope Republican partisans don’t pretend they can’t see what’s coming next year if this works out for Trump.

    It can;t work the way you said, but he could try challenging the results in court and hoping at least to keep a state from casting Electoral votes. I don;t think if he did that he;d get enough co-operation.

    In 2016, for awhile, he considered challenging Ted Cruz’s legal qualifications for the presidentcy.

    This is what;s coming next:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says-vote-early-and-often-11599174742

    The reality is that both parties are gearing up to challenge mail-in voting with lawsuits that could tie up the result of a close election for weeks. They’d do better by the country if they paid more attention to the risks and reduced them.

    Here;s an interesting orecedent:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1876_United_States_presidential_election

    Page down to: Electoral disputes and the Compromise of 1877

    Bear in mind that the Democratic Party in the south intimidated African Americans from voting, by methods that included killing people, and the Republican Party herded them to the polls like sheep. (although given the hostility to them and their rights by southerners who were Democrats they had every good reason for voting straight Republican.)

    There was actually some fear that another Civil War could break out if this wasn’t resolved.

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  75. Just vote once.

    Why are we acting like it’s hard to figure the ethics out here?

    Just one vote. Anyone having a problem with one person/one vote should burn in hell. It’s really not complicated.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  76. “Intentional willful double voting is a felony,” Mr. Gannon added.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/us/politics/trump-people-vote-twice.html

    I’m seeing a contradiction here.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  77. Mr. Gannon is the same Patrick Gannon quoted above.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  78. I think Patrick Gannon needs to get his story straight.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  79. Full context:

    States have long used a number of measures to guard against double voting. Patrick Gannon, a spokesman for the North Carolina State Board of Elections, said the system in North Carolina would prevent a person from voting twice, because only the first vote recorded would be counted.

    If a person has already mailed in an absentee ballot and goes to the polls on Election Day, records will show poll workers that the person has already voted, Mr. Gannon said. Or, if a person votes on Election Day and officials later receive that person’s absentee ballot, it will be “spoiled” and not counted, he said.

    “Intentional willful double voting is a felony,” Mr. Gannon added.

    He encouraged voters to request absentee ballots, send them in and track them on the elections board’s website.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  80. Taking a photgraph of a check and depositing it online and then going to the bank to deposit the paper chek is more illegal, but even that will not enable you to get the money twice.

    In North Carolina, if the ballot was mailed but the vote not yet recorded, the in person vote spoils the mail in ballot.

    It is not supposed to be possible to vote twice.

    https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/vote-mail/faqs-voting-mail-north-carolina-2020

    If I’ve received my ballot by mail, may I still vote in person?

    Yes. You may still vote in person as long as you did not return your absentee ballot. Your absentee ballot will be spoiled after you vote in person.

    Can I vote the ballot and return it to the county board of elections, but change my mind and cancel my ballot and vote on Election Day instead?

    No. Once you return your ballot, you may not change or cancel your ballot.

    That doesn’t appear to be strictly true.

    Voting at the polls cancels your absentee ballot, and voting by mail cancels your right to vote at the polls. Donald Trump was claiming that they can’t make a system like that work. But of course you can.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  81. Maybe Donald Trump was hoping that someone will slip through the cracks, and notify his campaign, and then he can challenge the whole outcome of the election if it goes against him in North Carolina.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  82. Officials discourage this, and they might investigate it, but North Carolina’s fraud statute requires bad intent….

    Why would they investigate something the WSJ claims an election official is suggesting people do even though they discourage it and the NYT says the same guy says it’s a felony?

    Patterico (97e6be)

  83. Maybe Donald Trump was hoping that someone will slip through the cracks, and notify his campaign, and then he can challenge the whole outcome of the election if it goes against him in North Carolina.

    Maybe Trump was hoping that someone would notice how ridiculous the current system and be forced to investigate it because their hatred of him always forces them to actually research what crazy thing he is stupidly blathering about.

    BuDuh (b9757d)

  84. If I’ve received my ballot by mail, may I still vote in person?
    Yes. You may still vote in person as long as you did not return your absentee ballot. Your absentee ballot will be spoiled after you vote in person.

    Can I vote the ballot and return it to the county board of elections, but change my mind and cancel my ballot and vote on Election Day instead?

    No. Once you return your ballot, you may not change or cancel your ballot.

    Now that makes sense. My wife always requests an absentee ballot just in case, and as a result her vote at the polling station is “provisional” and takes longer to count. But you can’t send it in and then go vote again. That is fraud.

    That is what Trump is encouraging.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  85. Maybe Trump is encouraging voter fraud and hoping to overwhelm the system with double votes for him.

    This is not complicated. He is a child mentally and does not have these grandiose plans that ridiculous people attribute to him.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  86. But you can’t send it in and then go vote again.

    I understand him to be saying to send it in and then on election day check to see if they can verify possession of your mail in ballot. If they cannot verify possession then you should vote in person to make sure that your single vote counts. North Carolina has a system similar to California’s where they can weed out the extra ballot. California has been doing this for over 30 years.

    BuDuh (b9757d)

  87. @80 “Yes. You may still vote in person as long as you did not return your absentee ballot. Your absentee ballot will be spoiled after you vote in person.”

    If you have a ballot but don’t use it and you vote in person, the absentee ballot would be marked as spoiled because you didn’t use it, you went and voted in person. If you send in your absentee ballot, you can’t vote on election day according to the FAQ.

    Nic (896fdf)

  88. I continue to believe you are encouraging people to commit a felony.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  89. @48. It’s not really an issue of support or non-support- or trying t convince anybody of anything one way or the other. It’s just a matter of general observation.

    Would you let him drive a bus, pilot a plane. conduct surgery- or access the nuclear codes?

    It’s frightening that someone his age, displaying these disturbing characteristics now has risen to the point where he’d be even considered for the CIC gig. Each day he gets older–and time has not been his friend.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. Nic (896fdf) — 9/4/2020 @ 2:09 pm

    If you have a ballot but don’t use it and you vote in person, the absentee ballot would be marked as spoiled because you didn’t use it, you went and voted in person. If you send in your absentee ballot, you can’t vote on election day according to the FAQ.

    Well, no. If you sent it in but it hasn’t arrived yet or hasn’t been processed yet, you can vote in person.

    There’s something these election officials don’t want to make clear.

    The process of receiving it should include removing someone from the list of voters, or voting disqualifies the absentee ballot. At least one of those two things should be true.

    If requesting an absentee ballot does not remove you from the list of voters at the poll site, then they can;t count the absentee ballot until the close of polls on Election Day and maybe sometime later

    They’ve got to check every absentee ballot against the list of people who voted in person on Election Day or earlier.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  91. @90 The FAQ doesn’t say that you can vote again just because your absentee ballot hasn’t arrived yet. The FAQ says you can vote in person if you didn’t send in your absentee ballot, “as long as you did not return your absentee ballot”. If you did send in your absentee ballot, you can’t, “Once you return your ballot, you may not change or cancel your ballot. “.

    Obviously there have to be checks due to idiots and malicious people, but the rule is “vote once.” Which isn’t hard to follow. Vote once.

    Nic (896fdf)

  92. Obviously there have to be checks due to idiots and malicious people, but the rule is “vote once.”

    Indeed. And this is the system that has been in place for many years. Only now we worry if the “checks” actually are effective.

    BuDuh (4f5f65)

  93. For God’s sake, Biden can’t even point to a reporter for a question without a committee to help.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  94. What is so hard to understand. Trump has been saying that mail voting allows all kinds of fraud, including double voting. The Statists have laughed it off as “nice doggie” inanity. What a buffoon! The system is robust!

    So, Trump says, if the system is so robust, his supporters ought to mail in their votes then try to vote in person. IT SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE!!1!!

    And all of a sudden it’s an attack on the election, as it probably is possible.

    Is this an attack on Democracy? Or is it attacking a Democrat prerogative?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. This is the lead story on the CBS Evening News, and there was a political ad already prepared! (featuring Gold Star parents.)

    Joe Biden had a prepared statement (saying something like: if this is true…Trump owes an apology….his son Beau, who volunteered for Iraq, was not a loser)

    No way the top echelon of the Democratic Party didn’t know this was coming, if some peple connected woth it didn;t organize the whole series of allegations. It s a hit piece artillery barrage. And if this was planned, it could be at least partially lies.

    Trump’s press Secretary got 10 people on the record denying at least one allegation – CBS News didn’t indicate what but that’s probably the idea that the reason he didn’t go to cemetery in France was that he was afraid of getting is hair wet.

    Trump says this is fake news. He claimed the Atlantic had a profit motive (not a political motive. He ever ascribes political motives to media outlets.)

    Of course, he did say that about McCain that he was a hero only because he was captured but that’s not new here..

    One thing: Early voting forces these surprise attacks to come in early.

    Facebook plans to stop political ads one week before Election Day.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  96. There are other issues with voting

    Somewhat biased story about Florida:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/07/who-gets-to-vote-in-florida

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  97. If I mail in a vote, it has my voter registration number, or some other identifying info. If I go to the polls and vote, my name is crossed off the list as having voted. This SHOULD disqualify any ballot I mailed in. Have I committed a felony? Prove I didn’t forget, or thought I’d failed to sign it correctly, or even wanted to change my vote. Since the System has loudly proclaimed that double-counting is unpossible there is no harm.

    Now, if I try to vote in two locations with two different registrations, it IS a crime and it SHOULD be prosecuted. When CA forwards my CA ballot to NM (they have emailed me a ballot is coming despite my registration here in 2018), I will not vote twice. That would be wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. @92 Well it would help if the President wasn’t telling people to break the “Vote Once” rule.

    @94 Maybe he should tell them to break into banks, too. I mean, if the bank security is so good, they shouldn’t be able to, right? That would be a most excellent idea.

    Nic (896fdf)

  99. The Democrats have long rounded up all the homeless and taken them to the polls, knowing that most of them are unregistered, and having them cast provisional ballots. Some might get counted, after all. Nudge nudge, wink wink. Of course, voter ID would “disenfranchise” this demographic.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. Well, Nic, you can make up sh1t about what I said, but that doesn’t make you right. Or honest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. if the President wasn’t telling people to break the “Vote Once” rule.

    He isn’t telling anyone that. He is telling people to make sure their one vote counts. If there is no record of their ballot having been turned in by election day they utilize that state’s existing provisional ballot system.

    BuDuh (810c71)

  102. He isn’t telling anyone that. He is telling people to make sure their one vote counts.

    by voting twice

    Kevin’s right. This kind of crap will overwhelm the system, because what shouldn’t be possible, really is possible. Especially when the president says it’s OK to push the issue a million times. Guess what: literally nothing works under that test. Not a thing. The law of gravity doesn’t work if everyone tries to beat it. the law against murder no longer applies if everyone breaks it tomorrow.

    The president is using his office the wrong way. It will hurt our society. He’s gotta go.

    Kevin, what pizza is good in Albuquerque? I’m on day 9 of my quarantine here and need something that didn’t come from a can.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  103. @100 Oh, so telling to commit one type of crime to test the system is OK, but telling them to commit another isn’t. Maybe he just shouldn’t be telling people to commit crimes.

    Nic (896fdf)

  104. because what shouldn’t be possible, really is possible.

    And not illegal. Fortunately now it isn’t going unnoticed. Hopefully everyone who is upset about this will contact their local and state officials and read them the riot act.

    BuDuh (810c71)

  105. to push the issue a million times. Guess what: literally nothing works under that test. Not a thing. The law of gravity doesn’t work if everyone tries to beat it.

    It would be interesting to audit the local governments and their ballot checking measures. How many double ballots are too many for their systems to catch? For all we know this system has always been overwhelmed.

    BuDuh (810c71)

  106. Kevin, what pizza is good in Albuquerque? I’m on day 9 of my quarantine here and need something that didn’t come from a can.

    Boy, is this your bad luck day. I’m allergic to most cheese. That being said, there’s some good ribs. Other stuff. LOTS of places deliver right now. Whereabouts are you?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. Uptown

    Dustin (825e2c)

  108. Let’s recap:

    State election officials: Due to Covid, we’re going to mail out ballots to last known addresses.

    Trump: Are your effing crazy? Don’t you see the dangers in that?

    State election officials: Not to worry. Cheating is inconceivable! We have top men people working on that right now! We can check for bad signatures, duplicate voting, all kinds of things.

    Trump: No you can’t. What a crock of sh1t!

    State election officials: Yes we can, and we don’t appreciate that kind of language! OUr systems are foolproof.

    Trump: Hold my beer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. Trump: No you can’t. What a crock of sh1t!

    State election officials: Yes we can, and we don’t appreciate that kind of language! OUr systems are foolproof.

    Trump: Hold my beer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:44 pm

    What if they mostly could have pulled that off, not perfectly, but pretty much, and now of course they have no hope of doing it?

    It’s a bad year. Grandma doesn’t want to vote in person. this is a bad way to improve election integrity, a good way to get some double votes ‘innocently’.

    Let’s just put the ballot at the end of the income tax return. That would be amusing.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  110. Uptown

    Jeebus, but you should be swimming in restaurants. There’s a California Pizza Kitchen, a Cheesecake Factory, a Ruth’s Chris, and Jason’s Deli, all of which deliver. If you are dead set on pizza, there are several but I can’t tell you what’s good. Rudy’s BBQ is a few miles away, but they may deliver over there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  111. Let’s just put the ballot at the end of the income tax return. That would be amusing.

    Not one Democrat would win. A large number of voters (including ME these days) don’t pay federal income tax.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. The Boston Election Department said it experienced heavy call volumes on its absentee ballot phone lines Tuesday morning as poll workers tried to confirm that voters who applied to vote by mail didn’t already have an absentee ballot in the books (including this one).

    Steph Solis
    @stephmsolis
    ·
    Sep 1
    The Boston Election Department’s absentee ballot line was flooded with calls about voters who, like me, applied for mail-in ballots but voted in person. It’s strange to think it’s legal to vote in a second, separate format in hopes that a vote will be counted once

    In a statement Tuesday night, the department said it spoke with Galvin’s office to “streamline this process” and let voters cast their ballot on site without waiting for verification. Galvin’s spokesperson, Debra O’Malley, said poll workers were instructed to stop calling so voters wouldn’t be held up, which could lead to longer lines in the middle of a global public health crisis.

    Poll workers in Boston found themselves trying to balance the need to keep people moving quickly and trying to prevent people from voting twice, a violation of federal law.

    “I talked specifically about my concern about voters unintentionally voting twice, and we wanted to make sure that didn’t happen,” Galvin said, echoing concerns he raised during a news conference Monday. “Protecting the integrity of the election is extremely important to me.”

    Galvin said he hopes to see fewer concerns about last-minute ballot deposits. The sooner people apply to vote by mail and mail their ballots, the less strain on election clerks to tabulate the votes on Nov. 3.

    https://www.masslive.com/politics/2020/09/massachusetts-2020-primary-more-than-14-million-cast-ballots-but-elections-officials-say-new-process-has-some-kinks-to-work-out.html

    The official was worried about federal crimes but he gave it the go ahead anyways.

    BuDuh (810c71)

  113. Jeebus, but you should be swimming in restaurants. There’s a California Pizza Kitchen, a Cheesecake Factory, a Ruth’s Chris, and Jason’s Deli, all of which deliver. If you are dead set on pizza, there are several but I can’t tell you what’s good. Rudy’s BBQ is a few miles away, but they may deliver over there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:53 pm

    Yeah I was hoping for something local. Rudy’s does sound like the best bet though. thanks.

    Not one Democrat would win. A large number of voters (including ME these days) don’t pay federal income tax.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:55 pm

    It would probably lead to a lot of vote buying schemes through tax credits so it’s not a very good idea, but if we need a secure document, it’s not the worst. I think it’s time to go ahead and come up with very secure methods of remote interaction such as voting. We should also have a completely independent agency dedicated to investigating election fraud, actively seeking out failures in the process such as the one being used to defend Trump’s comments. Of course, such an agency would instantly be attacked by whichever side got in trouble the most.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  114. The November election season has officially started, as North Carolina begins sending out mail ballots

    General-election voting kicked off Friday as North Carolina began mailing out more than 650,000 absentee ballots — far more than the number requested at this point in 2016 and a preview of the deluge of mail-in ballots likely to hit voting offices around the country this fall.

    …… North Carolina is the first state to send out absentee ballots, but by mid-September, at least 20 other states will also begin mailing out ballots.

    The early start, coupled with the record-setting number of people expected to vote by mail in many states, means that an unusually large number of voters could cast their ballots long before Election Day on Nov. 3. In North Carolina, where any eligible voter can request an absentee ballot, voters can return their ballots as early as next week.
    ……
    At this point in 2016, by comparison, some 38,000 absentee ballots had been requested.
    ……
    …..In 2016, a plurality of those who requested and cast such ballots were Republican, at 40 percent. Thirty-one percent were Democrats, and the rest were unaffiliated with a party. But this year, more than half of the requests are from registered Democrats…..
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. Oh, so telling to commit one type of crime

    But voting by mail, then voting in person is not a crime without intent to vote twice. Suppose you forgot to sign the mailed ballot. What do you do? They might accept it or not. If you go down and vote in person they should catch that as they count to absentees. This happens ALL THE TIME and yet there is never a prosecution. Maybe they’ll prosecute 4 million Californians this time, but I doubt it.

    When they said that they’d mail out ballots to last known addresses, thy can no longer prevent one from voting at the polls because an absentee ballot has been returned for that voter, and certainly not because an absentee ballot has been mailed (something they used to do).

    Trump was right that indiscriminate mailing of ballots makes the system untrustworthy, and this is a reducio ad absurdum proof of that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. As for the elderly in the nursing home, everyone knows the ballots are filled out by someone else anyway and the signature of a 92yo arthritic voter might not match anything on file.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  117. I think this election will lead to online voting via cryptographic credentials + geolocation (although the latter will have to be a damn sight better than IP address given that mine tells some folks I’m in AZ).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  118. @117 AZ, NM. What’s the difference? :)

    norcal (a5428a)

  119. Dustin–

    Ask Pat for my email, and we can get together at some point. I’d love to meet you. I know we give each other a hard time here, but I’m pretty sure is mostly all in fun.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. Of course!

    Dustin (825e2c)

  121. Dustin, my wife suggests https://ilvicino.com (Nob Hill is closest). She says “Not half bad.” I take it that most delivery-chain pizza is terrible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. That’s exactly the kind of thing I had in mind. Thanks!

    Dustin (825e2c)

  123. In more eventful news

    Wow. Just wow.

    MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
    FROM: Russell Vought Director
    SUBJECT: Training in the Federal Government

    It has come to the President’s attention that Executive Branch agencies have spent
    millions of taxpayer dollars to date “training” government workers to believe divisive, anti-
    American propaganda.

    For example, according to press reports, employees across the Executive Branch have been required to attend trainings where they are told that “virtually all White people contribute to racism” or where they are required to say that they “benefit from racism.” According to press reports, in some cases these training have further claimed that there is racism embedded in the belief that America is the land of opportunity or the belief that the most qualified person should receive a job.

    These types of “trainings” not only run counter to the fundamental beliefs for which our Nation has stood since its inception, but they also engender division and resentment within the Federal workforce. We can be proud that as an employer, the Federal government has employees of all races, ethnicities, and religions. We can be proud that Americans from all over the country seek to join our workforce and dedicate themselves to public service. We can be proud of our continued efforts to welcome all individuals who seek to serve their fellow Americans as Federal employees. However, we cannot accept our employees receiving training that seeks to undercut our core values as Americans and drive division within our workforce.

    The President has directed me to ensure that Federal agencies cease and desist from using taxpayer dollars to fund these divisive, un-American propaganda training sessions. Accordingly, to that end, the Office of Management and Budget will shortly issue more detailed guidance on implementing the President’s directive. In the meantime, all agencies are directed to begin to identify all contracts or other agency spending related to any training on “critical race theory/9 “white privilege,” or any other training or propaganda effort that teaches or suggests either (1) that the United States is an inherently racist or evil country or (2) that any race or ethnicity is inherently racist or evil. In addition, all agencies should begin to identify all available avenues within the law to cancel any such contracts and/or to divert Federal dollars away from these un-American propaganda training sessions.

    The President, and his Administration, are fully committed to the fair and equal treatment
    of all individuals in the United States. The President has a proven track record of standing for
    those whose voice has long been ignored and who have failed to benefit from all our country has
    to offer, and he intends to continue to support all Americans, regardless of race, religion, or
    creed. The divisive, false, and demeaning propaganda of the critical race theory movement is
    contrary to all we stand for as Americans and should have no place in the Federal government.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/M-20-34.pdf

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 11:20 pm

    Chris Rufo had a hand in that, Kevin.

    felipe (023cc9)

  125. That’s a damn nice memo.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  126. Hi, yes, the President wants us to cancel trainings that don’t exist. So you are here-forth directed to do so.

    Nic (896fdf)

  127. Hilarious that they cite “press reports” multiple times as the basis for this.

    True to form, Trump is too lazy, and too interested in empty propaganda gestures, to find out what’s actually going on before issuing another Fuhrer Befehl for the gratification of his OANN/FoxNews cultists.

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. Uhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/09/the-week-in-pictures-bad-hair-day-edition.php

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  129. Patterico, what does “If it isn’t tabulated…” mean to you from what Trump said?

    Snopes, hardly a source of right wing Trump support, has ruled that Trump is in fact not effectively asking people to vote twice, but asking them to check their mail in ballot and vote again if it hasn’t been counted.

    Now you can fault Trump for giving voters poor advice, since there are simpler ways of checking the status of a mail in ballot. What you shouldn’t do, however, is claim that Trump has said something which he definitely did not actually say.

    But feel free to rise above your hate of Trump and explain the qualifier “If it isn’t tabulated” from Trump’s statement, and why Snopes would rule the way they did.

    Your Trump hate seems to be making you sloppy and a sucker for media hoaxes.

    George Gooding (07970d)

  130. If you can go to the polling place to see if your mail-in vote has been tabulated, you did not need to vote by mail in the first place. Moreover, the polling place is not the place where you check if your vote has been tabulated. It’s the place where you vote. The place where you check if your vote has been tabulated is the office of your board of elections.

    And Trump is doing more than asking his nosepickers to vote twice — he’s also asking them to go and make trouble at the polling places, take up the poll-workers’ time, and make the lines and waiting times longer for people there to vote in person. The orange loser knows he’s going to max out under 63 million votes and his only chance is to suppress Biden’s vote.

    Come on, man!

    nk (1d9030)

  131. Well said, nk.

    DRJ (aede82)

  132. 115. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 5:04 pm

    But voting by mail, then voting in person is not a crime without intent to vote twice. Suppose you forgot to sign the mailed ballot. What do you do? They might accept it or not.

    They certainly won’t accept it if it not sgned, but a person could be unsure if they remembered to sign in, or if the ballot arrived in time (states are now putting in systems that would enable avoter to tell if his ballot has been logged in by Election Day) The signature also could be deemed not match. Some states now have systems where a person can com e in after Ekection Day (or before as the case may be) and certify that the ballot mailed from his address was his.

    If you go down and vote in person they should catch that as they count to absentees. This happens ALL THE TIME and yet there is never a prosecution. Maybe they’ll prosecute 4 million Californians this time, but I doubt it.

    Since the sstem is supposed to remove the possibility of voting successfully both ways, that’s not considerd an attempt to vote twice. Voting in two different states is, I think.

    When they said that they’d mail out ballots to last known addresses, thy can no longer prevent one from voting at the polls because an absentee ballot has been returned for that voter, and certainly not because an absentee ballot has been mailed (something they used to do).

    When absentee ballots were few they could do that thing without too many complaints. That guards against double counting at the cost of depriving people of the right to vote in that election.

    A person is only supposed to be registered in one precinct.

    Trump was right that indiscriminate mailing of ballots makes the system untrustworthy, and this is a reducio ad absurdum proof of that.

    If delivered, it really multiplies the possibility of voting twice, from two different addresses, because purges are slow, and can involve litigation.

    Now the address used is supposed to be the address that someone lives at on Election Day but many people have voted at a polling site based on their old addresses. My parents did in November 1970 because they’d moved just the week before. Of course it had not been possible to reregister. I think there;s actually supposed to be a way to allow someone to vote from their new address if they moved within New York City.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  133. In person provisional ballots are not mixed in with other votes. In most of the cases the vote swold not be counted. Provisional ballots is one way of guarding against the possibility of avoter being able to vote twice.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  134. Thank you, DRJ. Obfuscation by Trump and his supporters to cover up his blunders, false promises, and outright criminalities, has become an all too familiar tactic.

    nk (1d9030)

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