Washington Post: Only Landslide For Biden Can Save Us In November…Or Something Like That
[guest post by Dana]
You might be interested in reading the Washington Post preparing Americans for a Trump win based on four imagined scenarios. Long story short: Only a Biden landslide will save the Republic from violence and a constitutional crisis:
We wanted to know: What’s the worst thing that could happen to our country during the presidential election? President Trump has broken countless norms and ignored countless laws during his time in office, and while my colleagues and I at the Transition Integrity Project didn’t want to lie awake at night contemplating the ways the American experiment could fail, we realized that identifying the most serious risks to our democracy might be the best way to avert a November disaster. So we built a series of war games, sought out some of the most accomplished Republicans, Democrats, civil servants, media experts, pollsters and strategists around, and asked them to imagine what they’d do in a range of election and transition scenarios.
A landslide for Joe Biden resulted in a relatively orderly transfer of power. Every other scenario we looked at involved street-level violence and political crisis.
Here is a look at what they predict will happen apart from a bigly Biden win:
With the exception of the “big Biden win” scenario, each of our exercises reached the brink of catastrophe, with massive disinformation campaigns, violence in the streets and a constitutional impasse. In two scenarios (“Trump win” and “extended uncertainty”) there was still no agreement on the winner by Inauguration Day, and no consensus on which candidate should be assumed to have the ability to issue binding commands to the military or receive the nuclear codes. In the “narrow Biden win” scenario, Trump refused to leave office and was ultimately escorted out by the Secret Service — but only after pardoning himself and his family and burning incriminating documents.
You can read the details of the four scenarios at the link.
Given that I’m not voting for either candidate, I’m not too moved one way or the other by the scenarios. They contain both the ridiculous and the not so unreasonable, the biased, and the preferred. I’m just left wondering for the hundredth time, why the two major political parties decided that America must choose between two rich old white guys – one with questionable mental faculties, and one proven to lack a functioning moral compass – to lead the most powerful nation on earth. America really shouldn’t accept these conditions. America should *want* better than this. Oh, and screw the binary choice trope.
–Dana
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: I have not read the piece, but frankly, I have been mulling over on my own the thought that we are headed for violence unless (and perhaps even if) Biden wins in a landslide. (“Even if” depends upon the extent to which indignant and armed Trumpers are willing to blind themselves to reality — and if history is any guide, they are really, really good at that.) My concern is at the point where I am considering casting a vote for Biden simply to make the margin of victory in the popular vote even more decisive. (It’s heightened by the certainty that some Trump fans will follow his directive to commit voter fraud and vote twice.) Given that my vote doesn’t matter in California anyway, using it to try to contribute to the avoidance of violence seems like as good a use of that right as any other. To be sure, taking such a position publicly might hurt my status in the eyes of … well, in the eyes of people who already despise me anyway. What exactly do I have to lose, other than the chance to watch the country burn?
America, you disappoint me!
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:00 pmIt’s like they don’t even try very hard not to be cheerleaders….
Simon Jester (570aff) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:01 pmOh, it’s ridiculous, Simon Jester, but it’s nothing new. As November draws closer, any pretenses will just be shrugged off, and there will be absolutely no effort at pretending to be an even-handed effort. Democracy already died in the pages of major media outlets. The funeral pyre is way in the rearview mirror.
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:06 pmI mean, for Biden? Really?
It’s just all alphabetism, all the way down.
I’m so sad. But I am with you about this election, Dana.
Simon Jester (570aff) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:08 pmThe binary choice argument is one for desperate, bitter compromises made in emergencies. Ride or die decisions. It’s not valid for Romney v Obama. And it’s how things got so bad for both parties.
But I’m hidin’ with Biden.
Natural resources.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:08 pmYes, Trump is all that we think he is, Dana.
But Biden? I doubt even SNL would run skits like this now.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/04/saturday-night-live-features-jason-sudeikis-joe-biden/586636/
They are all in.
Simon Jester (570aff) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:11 pmThey really wasted Hillary, a rich source of material. Biden is so gaffe prone and creepy.
But you’re right. They are all in. We should be wary that Hillary was ahead by 99 points one hour before the election last round. I think WaPo’s setting the stage to blame what happens after Trump wins on Trump.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:13 pmIn the “Trump win” scenario, desperate Democrats — stunned by yet another election won by the candidate with fewer votes after credible claims of foreign interference and voter suppression — also sought to send rival slates of electors to Congress. They even floated the idea of encouraging secessionist movements in California and the Pacific Northwest unless GOP congressional leaders agreed to a series of reforms, including the division of California into five smaller states to ensure better Senate representation of its vast population, and statehood for D.C. and Puerto Rico.
The idea that Democrats gain by splitting CA into 5 states is silly. Unless the split was manifestly gerrymandered in a way that I think impossible, you would end up with 2 red states (Jefferson and San Joaquin), two blue states (Marin to Santa Clara to Monterrey, plus Los Angeles and some surroundings) and a purple state (the rest of So Cal). This would result in *some* GOP electoral votes, where now they get none.
No doubt CA all looks Blue to the east coast types, but anyone who lives there knows that, missing Los Angeles and the Bay Area, it’s likely going red.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:14 pmI’m just left wondering for the hundredth time, why the two major political parties decided that America must choose between two rich old white guys – one with questionable mental faculties, and one proven to lack a functioning moral compass – to lead the most powerful nation on earth.
It all boils down to stupid voters. It’s not the parties, and it’s not the system. It’s the people.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:17 pmThe Five States of California
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:18 pmOf course they are. They’re so obvious, it’s embarrassing.
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:18 pmBy the way, chopping up CA without CA’s agreement — something that CA’s courts have ruled is a “Constitutional Amendment”, at least for initiatives, and would require voter approval — is not allowed by the US Constitution.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:22 pmSimon Jester,
I can’t access the actual video, but reading the text of it, you’re darn right they wouldn’t run that now.
@ Dustin,
Oh they didn’t waste Hillary and the rich source of material she is. They intentionally avoided that mock motherlode because of their unabashed support of her. It’s funny, though, perhaps by making fun of her more outrageous behaviors, it might have “humanized” her…
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:23 pmAmerica, the greatest country in the world, is now having to choose between an amoral grifter with numerous accusations of sexual assault against him, and a man accused of sexual assault who also habitually smells women’s hair and unnecessarily touches them. Binary choice, my ass.
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:26 pm@10 I feel like Roseville might have some concerns about that format. Also, there would be a distinct lack of funds in 2 of those states. And the water fights would be insane.
Nic (896fdf) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:27 pmHillary’s so weird. But maybe. Obama was inspiring even if you didn’t buy into him at all. Hillary really didn’t build that career. But everyone who can laugh at themselves gets points.
All I remember is SNL was so certain this was a done deal and hillary would win, and that just wasn’t interesting comedy. it was stupid.
LOL good one.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:29 pm1) Trump wins: must be cheating and only a traitor would say otherwise. Man the barricades and dig up your guns (oh, wait). Then hold our breath until the give us extra votes.
2) Biden wins: only traitors will say it’s cheating, and when they man the barricades and dig up their guns, we’ll sadly be forced to kill your friends and family to remind you of our love.
In the actuality, it will be just the same as usual. Texas won’t secede and neither will California. San Francisco might, but that’s fine too. Drop a couple bridges and see how long their farms hold out.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:31 pmUPDATE BY PATTERICO: I have not read the piece, but frankly, I have been mulling over on my own the thought that we are headed for violence unless (and perhaps even if) Biden wins in a landslide. (“Even if” depends upon the extent to which indignant and armed Trumpers are willing to blind themselves to reality — and if history is any guide, they are really, really good at that.) My concern is at the point where I am considering casting a vote for Biden simply to make the margin of victory in the popular vote even more decisive. (It’s heightened by the certainty that some Trump fans will follow his directive to commit voter fraud and vote twice.) Given that my vote doesn’t matter in California anyway, using it to try to contribute to the avoidance of violence seems like as good a use of that right as any other. To be sure, taking such a position publicly might hurt my status in the eyes of … well, in the eyes of people who already despise me anyway. What exactly do I have to lose, other than the chance to watch the country burn?
Patterico (115b1f) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:32 pmLOL good one.
OK< I'll bite. What black-letter rule has Trump violated? And not one like "emoluments" which didn't mean a thing when Hillary was stuffing her pockets with Saudi bribes.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:34 pmAny state, or a reasonably vanquishable number of states, can be accused of being in rebellion and insurrections, lose its statehood, and be chopped up. See e.g. Virginia and West Virginia.
nk (1d9030) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:36 pm@18 Good thoughts, Patterico. The calculations we have to make in this election year are mind-boggling.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:37 pmAlmost. Yes he is cheating. We all know it. You either are traitor or blinded by partisanship if you don’t agree with this. No offense and I know you’re a very smart guy.
Let’s grant for the sake of argument that there are Biden supporters who will find Al Franken style boxes of ballots. There are democrats who will fill out mail-in ballots for others.
Biden didn’t tell his fans to vote twice ’cause we’re testing them’ and didn’t brag that he shut down mail sorting machines to make absentee voting less realistic.
These aren’t the same thing.
If it did, we’d have to build a wall
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:37 pmHere is the New Yorker’s version of the Transition Integrity Project exercise from a couple of weeks ago.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:37 pmPatterico, suppose that, by increasing Biden’s popular vote you are delegitimatizing a valid Trump electoral college win. Would you not be CONTRIBUTING to violence? Would you consider said violent reaction to a Trump victory patriotic?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:37 pmIf it did, we’d have to build a wall
Communists always build walls to keep people in. If you are lucky though, Texas might build the wall for you.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:39 pmDustin #22, you seem to think this is clever, when in fact it’s a pathetic and unconscious proof of my point.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:41 pm@24 Damn, Kevin. You just saw Patterico’s good thoughts, and raised them.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:43 pmAs I said on another thread, anyone who thinks that Trump is suggesting that his voters attempt to get their votes counted twice has got their hate blocking their thought. He’s suggesting that there are MANY ways that mail voting can be subjected to fraud — too many moving parts, most out of sight. Example: postal workers throw away some percentage of votes from white areas. “Gee, I guess they never mailed them!”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:44 pmIf you think that last was unreasonable, what would you think if postal workers were mostly Trumpists?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:45 pmOf course, if there can be no such thing as a valid Trump win, then heads Biden wins, tails Trump loses and there’s not a lot of reason to even hold the election.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:47 pmExecutive action to change contracts in tenancy, obviously a tax/spend or commerce clause power.
He told a dictator that he could have a race based concentration slave labor camp, probably in violation of a 1945 self proving treaty.
He told you to vote twice for him (14th amendment EPC), and the impact is for racist punks to do it (if he doesn’t enforce, 15th amendment)
He disabled some equipment in the USPS, which is not necessarily mandated by the US Constitution, but is an entity described in the US constitution and the president’s duty to faithfully administer.
He refused to cooperate with impeachment subpoena indeed ordering his administration to thwart, impeachment being a power of congress in the US constitution.
He had a political convention on the lawn of the white house.
You excluded emoluments, but indeed there’s a lot of that sort of self-enrichment. I have never heard a good argument why the this language in the constitution doesn’t matter. “of any kind whatever” That’s the category of stuff Trump can’t get from foreign entities. Seems pretty broad to me. His daughter got all those chinese patents when Trump was saying concentration camps are no big deal. It’s important.
This is a turning point in our nation’s history. Is Biden acceptable? Probably not. But I’m hidin’ with Biden because I love America too much to not do all I can lawfully do to stop the racist punks who vote twice.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:49 pmI only know one and he is indeed a huge Trump fan. I have no idea if there’s a great reason for this, but they do hire a lot of veterans. Most vets I know are Trump fans, though it’s more like half of the people on active duty that I know, half being biden fans (a big change).
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:52 pmClever isn’t the word. The fact that partisan zealots on the left will cheat at the election was your point. My point was that when the president of the united states encourages it, that’s different. Simple, basic, not clever.
Trump has gone too far. He is the leader of the free world, telling his fans to vote twice.
Those trying to explain how actually this is a great way to prove some point are the ones attempting to be clever, even sophists.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:55 pmUnfortunately, your vote, or anyone else’s, probably won’t contribute to peace of any sort. Right now, Vice is publishing an interview of the Antifa murderer, Michael Reinoehl. Reinoehl said his assassination was justified. No pushback from Vice. What’s worse, no murder charges coming from any Oregon authorities.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:56 pmThe criminal penalties in the order. No state allows eviction without a court order. He is making it a crime for a landlord to go to a state court and file suit for evictions.
BTW, there almost certainly were state court eviction orders terminating his and his companies’ right to possession of the real estate involved in his various business failures. Both bankruptcies and foreclosures require a separate eviction order. What is the state of his various businesses these days?
nk (1d9030) — 9/3/2020 @ 5:57 pmhahaha damn
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:01 pmI think there’s more consider than just a vote for Biden to get his numbers up. It’s not unreasonable that Biden might have to step down during his term for health reasons. That means that Harris would step in. Are you OK with her leading the country?
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:02 pmYeah he’s a scumbag. Do you really think no charges are coming? Really?
Integrity.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:02 pmNope!
But I’m going to scribble her name out so don’t worry about it.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:03 pmAn unapologetic terrorist like bill ayers. Susan rosenberg and one other on the tip of my tongue.
Its funny how 12 years there was someone who gave a speech, in her own earnest naive way. She actually she would be given aa voice to shape policy. Of course we know the left was hellbent on wiping
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:04 pmher from the public space. Of course there was another gang of weasels schmidt and wallace (sound familiar) who had the knives in her back, with the full cooperation of john mccain (pbuh)
Lol, Dustin.
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:06 pmWhy the delay? Rittenhouse got charged in what, a day? What’s worse…Reinoehl had been arrested twice before since the summer. Gun charges. Yet, he somehow showed up at another riot to assassinate someone in cold blood.
But hey, maybe Oregon authorities will charge him once they can get into their office. I would think the burning and riots might make work hard these days.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:07 pmIf only he were roger stone, now there is a dangerous man,
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:12 pmYour own link said why. The police are investigating what he did in a homicide.
You said no charges will come. Now you say the charges are ‘delayed’. Integrity.
Though if you read/mimic AOS you might think there’s no need to investigate, no possibility of any defenses that need to be considered and looked into, just rush in. That doesn’t actually help get this scumbag convicted.
But pretending there are no charges coming to this guy gets people outraged, click click clickin away on the outrage sites.
I repeat the question: do you really believe no charges are coming?
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:21 pmFour years ago, they told me if I didn’t vote for Trump, there’d be a total collapse of the health care system and economy, violent thugs running wild in the streets, and a corrupt crime family with contempt for the constitution and the rule of law running a racketeering operation to enrich itself out of the White House.
And they were right!
Dave (1bb933) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:23 pmIts on tape, guiliani send rosenberg up for 58 years, he didnt think anyone woupd actually free her in part as a request by jerald nadler. That corporate america would fund her extortion and propaganda scheme,
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:24 pm“ (“Even if” depends upon the extent to which indignant and armed Trumpers are willing to blind themselves to reality — and if history is any guide, they are really, really good at that).
Yep, those Trump supporter riots, even the violence of the Tea Party back in the Obama days when Occupy was law-abiding and orderly, shows us what they are capable of.
harkin (cd4502) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:25 pm_
I don’t know what to believe anymore. I don’t understand how much “investigation” the Portland authorities need. The assassination is on video. The assassin is admitting he murdered in cold blood.
Arresting him at this point is not “rushing in.” It is taking a self-proclaimed assassin off the streets.
Tell me, what would the police or prosecutors need at this point to get an arrest warrant?
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:25 pmOne issue is that I think the victim used pepper spray. Maybe he used pepper spray when rushed by goons with guns to defend himself and maybe he was just spraying BLM activists and one defended themselves. Maybe a gun is not a reasonable solution to pepper spray. There are plenty of witnesses, possible accomplices.
If I were investigating this, I’d use all the camera footage I could to develop all the license plates and maybe even mass transit records by following people around who were apparent witnesses or even witnesses of witnesses. I would get as many of them to commit to a version of events as I could. Where stories deviated too much from the rest, I’d look into why. That will take time.
Shame on Portland’s mayor for false equivocation, but the idea we need to rush the investigation is a foolish one. If you thought this crazy guy was coming back to protests that would change things, but they would know if he was.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:26 pmPodesta who was actually lobbying the administration on behalf of russian interests who was a soviet stooge since the 80s
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:27 pmLike scott foval, he’ll probably walk away ‘free as a bird, guilty as sin’
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:30 pmI’m glad you changed your mind.
Yeah I agree actually. But will he remain in custody? If the purpose of the arrest is to get him off the streets, I wonder if that would even happen.
They have probable cause obviously, could arrest and keep investigating. But all that aside, let’s be real. Charges are coming.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone developing a defense. Wouldn’t it be easier to defend this guy if we just said ‘hey it’s on video, lock him up’ and the trial went the same way, and the defense could easily present some alternative theory that raised a doubt?
You’re right to demand justice but the arrest is only possibly going to get him off the streets.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:31 pm“The assassin is admitting he murdered in cold blood.”
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing-at-a-portland-protest-says-he-acted-in-self-defense
He’s claiming self-defense. It’s literally there in the title of the article.
Davethulhu (4c5c2a) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:31 pmSimon #6. They won’t allow it now. Check your link: someone is claiming a rights violation.
Other SNL cold opens remain available, as does this WaPo bit on the SNL bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4vGQqhXyuk
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:33 pmAren’t exterminators licensed in Portland? They probably have him on an airtight case of vermin removal without a license. Inhumane methods too, maybe?
nk (1d9030) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:33 pmYeah it’s predictable that if they kept letting every one of these guys out, people would die. You have a very good point that the catch and release stuff has led to a tragic outcome.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:33 pmMeanwhile facebook has deemed rittemhouse a mass murderer and deplatforms those who try to point out any contrary narrative.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:33 pmWe should be wary that Hillary was ahead by 99 points one hour before the election last round
She was losing ground day by day, and 538 had her as losing that morning. Trump campaigned in the battleground states, she went to California.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:35 pmRead the article. He can claim it, but doesn’t make it true. Besides, Rittenhouse is claiming it too, but didn’t stop him from being charged and arrested.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:36 pmLike that hopkinson fellow, he tried to take down the entire freedom caucus after he had a chat with durbin and duckworth, coincidence. Scalise was saved by some quick thinking but nearly died in a dc hospital.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:40 pmGood point, Kevin. Still, folks just reading the news in good faith saw a lot of articles that she wasn’t just ahead, it was a huge margin. Hillary strikes me as the kind of person to surround herself with yes men, to cast out the ‘negative rumors’ from anyone saying ‘hey I think trump is winning’.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:41 pmMaybe Rolling Stone will put Reinoehl on the cover, like they did with the younger Tsarnaev. This younger generation needs their heroes.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:42 pmClinton had a chance of losing, just like the 2004 Yankees did. Problem was no one thought it was a big chance.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:44 pmIf you read into it, he’s drunk driving / street racing with his son, was awful to his sister and mom. If he were smart, he would shut up, let the lawyers claim he’s mentally ill from a life of addiction and illness, throw in a defense theory. But he’s saying he had a choice and he was saving someone’s life. That means if he testifies he will be impeached unless he backs that up.
If you think about it, the more Reinoehl runs his mouth, the better. So do you really want him locked up a few days ago?
I think you raised a lot of good points about why you don’t trust the process. I should have been nicer in my disagreement with you. But I think he’s really screwing himself.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:46 pmChuck Ross
@ChuckRossDC
·
Michael Reinoehl is giving interviews to VICE five days after he killed a Trump supporter in Portland.
Kyle Rittenhouse was quickly charged with 1st degree murder.
Reinoehl had two pending illegal gun charges before the shooting
__ _
lol anyone who thinks this is equal treatment.
harkin (cd4502) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:49 pm_
Executive action to change contracts in tenancy, obviously a tax/spend or commerce clause power.
Well,, I can’t argue with that, but this has been all wrong since Wickard. Probably some HHS or banking regulations he can ride piggy-back on. Still, I’d prefer to be arguing the landlord’s side.
He told a dictator that he could have a race based concentration slave labor camp, probably in violation of a 1945 self proving treaty.
Hell, FDR did that himself, except for the labor part. But still, that’s not part of the US Constitution.
He told you to vote twice for him (14th amendment EPC), and the impact is for racist punks to do it (if he doesn’t enforce, 15th amendment)
That’s not what he said, and you’d know it if you’d stop frothing for a moment.
He disabled some equipment in the USPS, which is not necessarily mandated by the US Constitution, but is an entity described in the US constitution and the president’s duty to faithfully administer.
1) I doubt that he did that. He doesn’t have the technical ability to disable a flashlight.
2) There are valid reasons to cut costs at the post office. Not everything is sinister.
He refused to cooperate with impeachment subpoena indeed ordering his administration to thwart, impeachment being a power of congress in the US constitution.
If all Congress has to do to break through executive privilege is to say they are thinking about impeachment, we’d have a permanent committee on impeachment. Tell me, would you agree that Congress could force attorneys to divulge their clients secrets if it was about impeachment? IF not, why the one and not the other?
He had a political convention on the lawn of the white house.
Every President has made a political pitch from the Oval Office. Every. One.
You excluded emoluments, but indeed there’s a lot of that sort of self-enrichment. I have never heard a good argument why the this language in the constitution doesn’t matter.
Because precedent, starting with George Washington, exempt everything but outright bribes, and in Hillary’s case, even those.
This is a turning point in our nation’s history. Is Biden acceptable? Probably not. But I’m hidin’ with Biden because I love America too much to not do all I can lawfully do to stop the racist punks who vote twice.
What will you do when Biden tells HIS people to “vote by mail, then in person.” There should be no mail voting. Can’t get to the polls on election day, tough. Probably would tilt everything Democratic since the oldsters would have the most problem, but having people vote under wildly different rules, over a period of a month, means that there is no commonality among voters. This is bad.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:50 pmHe had a political convention on the lawn of the white house.
Also, point out the Constitutional section this violates.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:53 pmYes, I wanted him locked up asap. As I pointed out, he shows up at protests with a gun. He needs to be off the streets now.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:55 pmEmoluments: If you could show that Putin said “Do X and you can have that hotel in Moscow”, and the Trump did X, and THEN got the hotel, you’d have something. But 3 Russians playing golf at a Trump resort isn’t the same thing.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:56 pmRittenhouse is claiming it too, but didn’t stop him from being charged and arrested.
I don’t know about any other case, but Rittenhouse was down there looking for trouble and he found it. Next, some school shooter will shoot up a classroom and claim that the students jumped him when he walked in with a gun, and he had no choice.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:59 pmStill, folks just reading the news in good faith saw a lot of articles that she wasn’t just ahead, it was a huge margin
This is WHY democracy dies when the press takes sides. That she had PR pieces going in all the papers does not mean that it was Trump’s fault.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:01 pmTrump has gone too far. He is the leader of the free world, telling his fans to vote twice.
How come you think he knows what he is saying ONLY when it’s really stupid?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:03 pmThat assumes popular victory delegitimizes an electoral college win. I don’t think it does. But I think a massive popular vote victory coupled with an electoral college win is better than both wins without a massive and indisputable difference.
Plus, Trump wants his people to cheat, and I want to be foursquare against the cheater.
His comments encouraging people to cheat were likely a bridge too far. It’s too important to defeat a cheater to worry about other stuff, even if he does do awesome Republican small government policies like having CDC order no evictions.
Patterico (115b1f) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:04 pmHe is the leader of the free world
I join you in weeping. What is really terrifying is that the opposition party’s BEST EFFORT is Biden.
Both parties are bankrupt. Utterly bankrupt. We differ only in that I fear a party of socialists in power more than I fear an incompetent crook.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:05 pm“Read the article. He can claim it, but doesn’t make it true. Besides, Rittenhouse is claiming it too, but didn’t stop him from being charged and arrested.”
You said “The assassin is admitting he murdered in cold blood.”
Davethulhu (4c5c2a) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:08 pmDr. Biden is one sick individual to let her husband out of the cellar to speak today.
mg (8cbc69) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:09 pmhuh/2020
His comments encouraging people to cheat were likely a bridge too far
I don’t agree that he was doing that. He has an oft-stated distrust of main-in ballots and believes that GOP votes will be lost or miscounted. He wants his supporters to go to the polls and check that their ballot has been received, and to vote on election day if it has not been. There should be procedures to prevent both votes from counting, and if they aren’t if kinda proves his point.
I expect the Democrats to say the same thing, if more articulately.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:10 pmCortez/Omar/2024
mg (8cbc69) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:11 pmSuppose BLM said that postal workers should discard votes from white areas. Then what?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:12 pmIts almost like they are an enemy of the people
https://mobile.twitter.com/GPIngersoll/status/1301696941911351300
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:12 pmDemocrats have been assuming that for years. Hence the leftwing grassroots movement to get rid of the electoral college – either directly or thought other legislative means.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:12 pmCortez/Omar/2024
Nah, it will be Harris/Cortez in ’24 and ’28, assuming that Harris has a good food taster.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:13 pm“I don’t know about any other case, but Rittenhouse was down there looking for trouble and he found it. ”
I said it in another thread but it bears repeating: everyone involved in these shootings, on both sides, was looking for a fight.
Davethulhu (4c5c2a) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:20 pmGiven what we’ve seen over the past 3 1/2 years, there is no reason to believe that there wouldn’t be a violent reaction by Trump’s supporters if he loses the election. But I think that’s true even if Biden wins in a landslide. While the actual vote count would negate the contesting of it, all Trumpers will see is that their guy lost and thus, it was indeed a rigged election just like he said it would be. IOW, the facts won’t matter. But I think there is a similar scenario in place on the left side of the aisle. Given the increasing violence we’ve seen from a majority of left-leaning individuals these past few months during protests and riots, it is safe to say that that their anger stems originally from an already-deep hatred for Trump, and the police shooting of blacks has only served to see that anger launched under the banner of a righteous cause. I don’t think, in their collective mind, that Trump can be separated from the civil unrest. Thus I think the pump has been primed on the left side of the aisle, and there will be a violent reaction from them if Biden loses. Even in a landslide. Consider how difficult it was for Democrats to accept that Trump’s win and Hillary’s loss in 2016. There remains a significant number of Democrats who believe that Trump “stole” the election or that the electoral college is to blame for her loss, therefore must be done away with. IOW, both sides have already evidenced their violent tendencies. Both sides are already primed to react violently to a loss for their side. And with the media constantly amplifying political tensions on a near-daily basis, I think a lot of these people have no compunction about going all-in if their team loses. No matter who wins, and no matter if it’s a landslide on either side, it’s going to be very, very ugly. That’s a long way of saying I don’t think that casting a vote for Biden to get his numbers up will necessarily matter. There is nothing I’ve seen that leads me to believe otherwise. I think it’s going to be all-out vicious,and in a way that we’ve not experienced before.
Dana (292df6) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:22 pmKevin,
I’ve been thinking about what you said regarding the popular vote versus the electoral college. If Trump wins the electoral college but loses the popular vote, I don’t fear an escalation of violence. It won’t be much different than 2016. There will be whining, but eventually the realization will set in that Trump is gone in 2025 come hell or high water.
Moreover, mayors and governors will have to crack down on the rioters, because there would be no point in indulging them to make Trump look bad, or expecting a different administration anytime soon.
The bigger concern is if Trump loses the electoral college narrowly, and claims voting fraud. He might attempt to whip up his base, and you just know there are enough crazies out there to start doing crazy things. THAT might lead to some violence.
These voting considerations are getting crazy. Are we at the point where we have to look at the state and national polls on the day before the election, and make our best guess as to how to vote to placate the riffraff on either side?
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:26 pmActually we have seen the opposite, we have seen how left partisans have taken to violence since inauguration day, remember the burning limo on conneticut avenue, the poisoning plot of attendeees the attacks on college campus speakers in berkeley and elsewhere.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:29 pmWhat exactly do I have to lose, other than the chance to watch the country burn?
Meh. Been there, done that: 1968.
The music was better then than now.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:30 pmIn all honesty, you’ve got me here. Biden is an indictment of the democratic party. I wish I could demand you vote against Trump, for some great option, but instead I will simply enjoy bashing Trump.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:31 pmSeriously the last three months has proven anything and everyone is fair game, i wouldnt be surprised if there were attacks on polling stations in red areas,
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:35 pm@88 I agree about the music. That was the year “Sympathy for the Devil” came out. It’s a masterpiece of a song. Absolutely genius.
My understanding is that it was inspired by the book “The Master and Margarita”, which is a Russian novel written circa 1930 but kept under wraps by the author’s widow until the 60s. I read the book last year. It’s funny, sad, and profound.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:35 pmExactly. It’s stuff so hilariously unethical they did not specifically ban it. I want you to imagine Thomas Jefferson and pals were placed in a time machine and got to watch the Trump 2020 fireworks and all that spectacle, on the lawn of that building. Not a president, a king’s ceremony.
Is the power to have a massive ceremony on the government’s lawn listed in Article II? Did Congress use an Article I power to authorize this thing?
It used to be the case that if it wasn’t listed, exercising such a power was unconstitutional. That used to be the limited government our leader merely executes as a mere president.
Thomas Jefferson and pals would be throwing Trump’s tea in the harbor, so to speak.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:36 pmNo they didn’t.
Dave (1bb933) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:48 pmRe: “America must choose between two rich old white guys – one with questionable mental faculties, and one proven to lack a functioning moral compass”
Isn’t it possible that the one who lacks a functioning moral compass also has questionable mental facilities?
John B Boddie (bfc42b) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:56 pmTrump maxed out his vote in 2016 and a lot of it was anti-Hillary. He will not get more than 63 million this time around, either, and the odds are that he will get a lot less. He knows that. He knows who “his people” are. That’s why he’s so desperate to cut down Biden’s vote by hook or by crook, and to create as much doubt and confusion as possible. In a normal process, he loses decisively.
nk (1d9030) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:01 pmGiven what we’ve seen over the past 3 1/2 years, there is no reason to believe that there wouldn’t be a violent reaction by Trump’s supporters if he loses the election.
What have you seen?
beer ‘n pretzels (7f2992) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:15 pmHoi Polloi (dc4124) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:12 pm
FYI I believe Reinoehl was just killed an hour ago when the cops attempted to arrest him.
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:44 pmLiving in California, I’ve voted against Harris at least twice. Was there a third? I’m not sure. I know I never voted for her. And yet, to paraphrase Ken White, I don’t want the clap but I’ll gladly take it over cancer.
Trump is cancer.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 9/3/2020 @ 9:39 pmI don’t want the clap but I’ll gladly take it over cancer.
Same here, but I’m not going to vote for the clap; I’ll just let it happen.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 9:44 pm@89 I don’t actually think that Biden was the “best effort” over all of the Dems. Biden was the best effort to ensure “No Crazies” in this election. Everyone else they would’ve been taking a chance with, but Biden could for sure get the nom and block out any crazies *cough*bernie*cough*. Biden was their safety school. It would’ve been like if the Rs rallied around Jeb! last time in order to stop Trump. I think most of us can agree that Jeb! would’ve probably been better than Trump, even though he wasn’t anyone’s favorite.
Nic (896fdf) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:03 pmBooker and Harris should have been competitive for a safe Jeb/Biden type angle, acceptable to all but the crazies, but Booker is entirely unserious and Harris fell apart a bit like Scott Walker (another candidate who should have run a lot stronger) did in 2016.
Walker had never been in a serious race against other Republicans. And ditto for Harris running against other Dems (due to the jungle primary, her senate race was against another Dem, but it wasn’t close to competitive.
Dave (1bb933) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:23 pm99. Everyone performs the calculus they can live with. IMO Hitler, Stalin, Franco and Tito were all bad dudes. I wouldn’t choose between Hitler and Stalin, or between Tito and Franco. But I’d choose either Tito or Franco over Hitler or Stalin in a heartbeat. In today’s comparison, Harris is Tito/Franco, Trump is Hitler/Stalin.
And no, Trumpbots, I’m not saying Trump is as bad as Hitler or Stalin. I’m talking only about the depth of his unsuitability relative to Harris’. Obviously YMMV, though if you disagree you’re wrong. ☺
lurker (d8c5bc) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:43 pmEven if I thought Harris was as bad as Trump (and I don’t, at the level of basic human decency and competence) there is the fact that Harris would have to face re-election in four years, whereas Trump would be entirely unaccountable and free to indulge his worst impulses.
Dave (1bb933) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:51 pmDave’s right. What’s Trump going to do next year?
Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:55 pmWhat’s Trump going to do next year?
What did Nixon do in 1969? 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:59 pm@105 The more apt comparison is 1973.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/3/2020 @ 11:02 pm106. Yup, and the answer is quite a bit, most of it bad.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 9/3/2020 @ 11:09 pmvote huh and joe if you want planned parenthood to continue to kill babies for parts
mg (8cbc69) — 9/4/2020 @ 2:55 amsuch a disgrace
That will happen no matter which ticket wins, mg.
norcal (a5428a) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:00 am18. I don’t despise you, Pat. I can proudly say I’ve held you in pretty high esteem for the most part, outside of your decision to continue to stay in that socialist s**thole of California. Even then, I only question your wisdom, as I do now. To say that it doesn’t matter if you cast your vote for Biden is like saying that I, from South Dakota, might as well cast a vote for Trump because it doesn’t matter anyway (and it really doesn’t). So here we are.
Gryph (f63000) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:55 amIn reality though, the Democrats control just about every part of the election process, from the post offices to the election apparatus to the secretaries of state in most places. To accuse Trump of cheating is just projection, and a cover for what is really going to happen.
Some percentage of mail votes from certain zip codes is going to go astray, and be blamed on Trump’s (self-fulfilling) disparagement of mail voting.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 7:51 amThe bigger concern is if Trump loses the electoral college narrowly, and claims voting fraud.
I think that a narrow loss by either side will bring out the crazy. The article linked in Dana’s post suggests that losing Democrats would be just as likely to press Blue state legislatures in some Trump state to return Democrat electors, especially if the Democrat won the national popular vote (whatever that means).
The article even talks of secession threats.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 7:58 amI want you to imagine Thomas Jefferson and pals
The election of 1800 was so incredibly dirty and underhanded that I doubt it would surprise Thom. His opponent, Adams, even closed opposition newspapers on sedition charges, and Jefferson’s people probably engaged in such. Until the Civil Service reforms, it was traditional for government workers to be Party stalwarts who were expected to be campaigners come election time.
Pretty much what still happens in places like Santa Monica, where staffers of the Rent Control Board are paid $200k/year with 13 weeks of vacation, and are expected to campaign for the ruling Reeter’s Coalition.
Patronage was king until Grover Cleveland iirc.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:06 amBoth parties are bankrupt. Utterly bankrupt
OTOH, the GOP can recover, as it has a deep bench that has been sidelined by Trump. The Democrats have no such excuse.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:14 amFrom the DDID, using its own sources.
Paul Montagu (a2078e) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:14 amAck. Wrong thread.
Paul Montagu (a2078e) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:18 amThat this will be a highly contested election is of no doubt, more so than almost any previous election.
The problem is that many more citizens will be voting by mail this year, because of the pandemic and fear of infection. That’s going to cause problems in vote tabulation in several states and districts, which are ill-prepared and understaffed to deal with the huge increase in mail-in ballots.
It is almost certain that the election will not be decided on Nov. 3rd. Millions of votes to be counted, in so short a time. Only a handful of states, like five, exclusively use absentee or mail-in ballots. The majority, like forty-five, are not going to be able to report their vote tallies before the electoral college meets on Dec. 14th, and they are required by federal law to certify their votes six days before. That’s a very short timeline, between Nov. 3rd and Dec. 8th, to count all of the votes.
Oh, and there will be lawsuits galore, recriminations, accusations of fraud and whatnot in between. If you think hanging chads in Florida in 2000 was a scandal and a Supreme Court case, wait till Trump supporters take his idiotic advice and try to vote twice. Just mail in your ballot, then show up at the poll to vote in person. If you did that, you would be committing a felony, of course, but what does Trump care? He doesn’t. He’s never ever cared about anyone but himself. If you get charged with a felony arrest, it doesn’t matter to him; he casted his vote on an absentee ballot!
There is a simple solution to this mess. The electoral college is mandated by the Constitution, however the date the electoral college meets is determined by federal law, and that is the sole jurisdiction of Congress to set.
https://reason.com/2020/09/03/congress-could-postpone-the-electoral-college-to-prevent-election-chaos/
The Congress could very easily change the date the electoral college meets, and when the states are required to submit their votes. Give the states the requisite time to count votes and submit their tallies, in these extraordinary times. But then, there is absolutely no way Trump would ever sign off on that legislation. Sen. Rubio introduced a bill to that effect, but it’s not going anywhere. I never liked him to begin with, did not and would not vote for him, but in this situation, he does make a legitimate argument.
Plan for the best, but prepare for the worst. This is where we, as a people, are.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:36 amYou should vote for the person whose policies you support. Anything else is pointless virtue signaling.
1DaveMac (4cc9b4) — 9/7/2020 @ 1:53 pm