Patterico's Pontifications

8/13/2020

Biden Calls for Three-Month Nationwide Mask Mandate

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:34 pm



[guest post by Dana]

This is unsurprising:

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, called for a nationwide mask mandate on Thursday, drawing a sharp contrast with President Donald Trump, who rarely wears a mask himself and opposes such mandates.

“Every single American should be wearing a mask when they’re outside for the next three months at a minimum,” Biden said at a press appearance in Wilmington, Delaware. “Every governor should mandate mandatory mask wearing. The estimates by the experts are that it will save over 40,000 lives in the next three months. Forty thousand lives, if people act responsibly.”

“It’s not about your rights. It’s about your responsibilities as an American,” said Biden, flipping the script on Republicans who argue that mandates infringe on an individual’s right not to wear one.

You can watch Biden discussing the issue of masks here. He is followed by Kamala Harris, but I tuned out at that point.

Across the nation, 34 states now mandate wearing face masks in public.

While the science (and common sense) makes it clear that placing a barrier between yourself and those around you helps limit your spittle spray and thus inhibits the rate of transmission, people are still refusing to wear a mask in public. To have Biden (and if elected, the federal government) push for a three-month, nationwide mandate will clearly result in tremendous pushback from those already defying local mandates because they believe their civil liberties are being infringed upon and/or believe the pandemic is little more than a hoax.

Bear in mind that a new study warns that around 40–45% of people who contract SARS-CoV-2 most likely remain symptom-free. Such cases may contribute to the “silent spread” of the virus. Covid-19 does indeed spread through asymptomatic individuals.

Given that Biden didn’t discuss possible consequences for not wearing a mask, nor who should be responsible to enforce the directive, I am guessing he believes that it is up to individual states to decide what will work for them. While some states currently provide no enforcement guidance, or simply state that businesses may deny entry to those not wearing a mask, some states have actually determined that violators can be cited for a misdemeanor or fined. (Hawaii’s mandate says that offenders may be fined up to $5,000!)

Joe Biden’s team has released a new campaign ad focusing on Biden’s plan to contain the virus:

Given the frustration with Trump’s erratic and non-urgent response to the pandemic, this is bound to be an effective line of attack on Trump. After all, when the President of the United States blows off the daily coronavirus death toll in America with a cavalier “it is what it is” shrug, most Americans just don’t feel reassured about his concern for the nation’s well-being. And for good reason.

P.S. Commenter norcal questioned Biden saying that masks should be worn when “outside,” and whether he really meant it as a general “outdoors,” as if every time a person goes outdoors, they should wear a mask? He further pointed out that “in Nevada most people are not wearing a mask outside. Nevada is a swing state. If Biden pushes this, it will hurt him here”.

I wondered, in response, given that it’s Biden we are talking about, did he clumsily use outdoors as in out of one’s home and in public places where one is in close contact with others? I am not usually generous toward these yahoos, but he tends to play fast and loose with descriptions and seems constitutionally incapable of being specific.

–Dana

150 Responses to “Biden Calls for Three-Month Nationwide Mask Mandate”

  1. This attack should surprise no one, especially Trump.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. Every single American should be wearing a mask when they’re outside

    Outside? As in “outdoors”? Ridiculous. Here in Nevada most people are not wearing a mask outside. Nevada is a swing state. If Biden pushes this, it will hurt him here.

    I wear a mask when I go inside establishments. Outside I don’t.

    norcal (a5428a)

  3. Given that it’s Biden we are talking about, I’m wondering if he clumsily used outdoors as in out of one’s home and in a public place where one is in close contact with others? I am not usually generous toward these yahoos, but he tends to play fast and loose with descriptions and seems constitutionally incapable of being specific.

    Dana (292df6)

  4. I just can’t believe how many people seem to be willing to give Joe ****ing Biden the benefit of the doubt on this mask thing. SMDH

    Gryph (f63000)

  5. norcal,

    I’ve used a paraphrase of your point as a PS in the post.

    Dana (292df6)

  6. Maybe Biden is becoming more feebleminded as all that fashionable mask wearing has caused some hypoxic brain damage.

    Gryph (f63000)

  7. Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze

    pardon me if I’m skeptical of the out-of-the-blue mandate demands form the guy who told everyone to run outside and fire a shotgun in the air to scare off home invaders.
    __ _

    Jason McDurmon
    @indyjeepguy001
    ·
    He says it should be mandated “outside” for all Americans. His mind is gone.
    __ _

    Huachinango picante
    @schinko94
    ·
    He says as he’s not wearing a mask… Great example, Joe
    __ _

    Lisa Jackson
    @TakingYourLumps
    ·
    I’m not listening to a guy who hasn’t completed a sentence in 3 months.
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  8. “…unconstitutionally capable…” I think you meant “constitutionally incapable,” Dana. Interesting freudian slip there. 😉

    Gryph (f63000)

  9. Omg, that’s so funny! Good catch, Gryph. Thx.

    Dana (292df6)

  10. 9. Hey! I think you should list that as an edit below the fold and credit me with pointing it out! 😛

    Gryph (f63000)

  11. @5 Dana, I am honored to be quoted by you.

    norcal (a5428a)

  12. Well, at least Biden didn’t push for this, which is obviously ridiculous on its face, and about which I question the legality:

    The head of the Department of Natural Resources is telling employees to wear face masks on teleconferences — even when they’re not around others and at no risk of spreading the coronavirus.

    Natural Resources Secretary Preston Cole reminded employees in a July 31 email that Gov. Tony Evers’ mask order was going into effect the next day. That means every DNR employee must wear a mask while in a DNR facility, noted Cole, an appointee of the Democratic governor.

    Also, wear your mask, even if you are home, to participate in a virtual meeting that involves being seen — such as on Zoom or another video-conferencing platform — by non-DNR staff,” Cole told his employees. “Set the safety example which shows you as a DNR public service employee care about the safety and health of others.”

    The governor’s mask order requires people to wear masks when they are indoors — other than in private residences.

    Dana (292df6)

  13. Unfortunately for you, Gryph, I don’t know how to do “below the fold” here. You’ll just have to accept my thanks in the comments.

    Dana (292df6)

  14. 13. Just being cheeky. I was talking about adding on to the post acknowledging the change itself, but it’s no big deal.

    Gryph (f63000)

  15. 12. And might I also note, at least now I have some sense of just how far Dana can be pushed before she’ll call out the bureaucrats. 😉

    Gryph (f63000)

  16. I don’t think I’ve been shy about calling out the powers that be, Gryph. In fact, I’ve actually opted not to do certain posts because I worried that readers were just getting sick and tired of me slapping some official upside the head yet again.

    Dana (292df6)

  17. next up for base on balls biden – give up your guns or the american Spaniard from texas will be knocking on your door

    mg (8cbc69)

  18. 16. When it comes to CoViD, there seem to be quite a few credulous souls out there willing to trust bureaucrats with their health and safety, who would otherwise be rather skeptical.

    Gryph (f63000)

  19. And there you have it. Kamala slipping Biden a mickey will be as much a patriotic duty as it will be cynical ambition, but I still don’t want her for President.

    nk (1d9030)

  20. Gryph,

    As we’ve discussed many times, and as I’ve mentioned again in this post, common sense dictates my early-on decision to wear a mask when around others in public places. Immunologists and virologists provided the scientific rationale that confirmed my simple view of a barrier having some positive effect of limiting infection rates. I don’t see how that is “trusting bureaucrats with health and safety”. Rather I see it as using the brain God gave me, and happily learning that there is indeed a science behind it. I am going to trust the informed opinion of those who specialize in infectious diseases, contagions, and pandemics. That does not mean bureaucrats, although some may hold such a position as well.

    Dana (292df6)

  21. What’d she have to say, nk? I didn’t listen because I figured it was silly swooning about how awesome Joe is, and what a great leader he will be for our country.

    Dana (292df6)

  22. I have not listened to either one, Dana. By “slipping Biden a mickey”, I meant removing him as President, and not necessarily literally like Claudius and Agrippinilla.

    nk (1d9030)

  23. 20. Which immunologists and virologists provided that scientific rationale? Not all of them agreed. So how come you chose not to listen to the counterarguments from other immunologists and virologists who said almost from the outset that masks wouldn’t do any good? That, my friend, is exactly what I mean when I talk about “trusting bureaucrats with health and safety.”

    Gryph (f63000)

  24. 23. And to answer my own question in the interest of fairness, the reason I chose to run with the skeptics is because the pro-mask argument was scientifically flimsy and full of conflicting information from politically interested parties.

    Gryph (f63000)

  25. That mandate would end all sports leagues, and most protests. Oh yeah, exemptions….

    beer ‘n pretzels (477d53)

  26. If false positives are like the frozen yogurt getting into Giuliani’s cholesterol blood sample while Kramer was macking the phlebotomist, this mask proposal is like Elaine’s idea for nametags.

    urbanleftbehind (78bfa2)

  27. And I looked at him, but I was smart then, NOT dumb, like everyone says, I said, first of all, I said when I tell you to put a mask on, you put a mask on, and I’ll kick you out again, but I shouldn’t have called you Clayton Moore, I apologize for that,” Biden said he said.

    Fortuitously, Corn Pop avoided the Apology Chain and accepted Biden’s apology.

    Colonel Haiku (d40afa)

  28. Sigh. It’s like “Bananas”. Wear your underwear on the outside of your clothes, to make it easier for the police to see if you’re changing it three times a day. Wearing masks outdoors, in plain view, is much more easily than wearing masks indoors.

    You think I’m joking? I am not joking. That is how the bureaucratic state thinks. It passes laws which are easily enforced, and it passes laws which are less trouble to obey than the trouble you’d be in if you disobeyed. Whether they are of any benefit is besides the point.

    nk (1d9030)

  29. Wearing masks outdoors, in plain view, is much more easily *enforced* than wearing masks indoors.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. Claudius Joseph Robinette Biden Minor.

    nk (1d9030)

  31. Agrippina Kamala Harris Domitius Ahenobanes Nero.

    nk (1d9030)

  32. main benefit of masks is nobody gotta look atcho mama ugly face

    Dave (1bb933)

  33. Break on through to the other side.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  34. norcal wrote:

    Every single American should be wearing a mask when they’re outside. — Joe Biden

    Outside? As in “outdoors”? Ridiculous. Here in Nevada most people are not wearing a mask outside. Nevada is a swing state. If Biden pushes this, it will hurt him here.

    I wear a mask when I go inside establishments. Outside I don’t.

    Gee, when I am alone or only with my family, on my farm, with no one else for acres around, our former Vice President thinks I should be required to wear a mask?

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  35. He’s an idiot who obviously doesn’t get enough oxygen to the brain. If I’m in open spaces, why do I need to wear a mask. If I’m running by myself or with a friend or family, I definitely cannot wear a mask unless he wants me to drop dead. Come to think of it, he probably does and would count me as a Wuhan Flu victim and then my vote would go to him.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  36. The much nicer Dana wrote:

    As we’ve discussed many times, and as I’ve mentioned again in this post, common sense dictates my early-on decision to wear a mask when around others in public places.

    I have absolutely no objection to people wearing masks by choice; I object very strenuously to the notion that government officials should or do have the authority to order people to wear masks.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  37. Our former Vice President is competing with our current President for ridiculous statements that will put him in the evening news and Sunday talk shows, that’s what he’s doing.

    But that’s not what the American people are looking for now. They want a normal person in the White House. A boring person even. And good sex, warm bathrooms, and comfortable shoes.

    nk (1d9030)

  38. Gee, when I am alone or only with my family, on my farm, with no one else for acres around, our former Vice President thinks I should be required to wear a mask?

    Release teh Apology Chain!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. Normal people tend not to run for higher office nk. We don’t want the drama and just want to live our lives in peace as we decide.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  40. But that’s not what the American people are looking for now. They want a normal person in the White House. A boring person even. And good sex, warm bathrooms, and comfortable shoes.

    Well praise be to God. The Return of Earl Butz !!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. I still believe it will be an effective line of attack for Biden. Trump, through his own doing, is vulnerable on the pandemic. There is no getting around it.

    Dana (292df6)

  42. Watch for Biden’s people to clarify the meaning of “outside”. If they don’t, Biden will lose a significant number of votes.

    It was immediately apparent to me that this was a unforced error. Doesn’t anybody proofread Biden’s scripts? Talk about amateur hour. It’s not unlike one of Trump’s tweets.

    norcal (a5428a)

  43. One of Lori Lightweight’s constituents wrote:

    Wearing masks outdoors, in plain view, is much more easily *enforced* than wearing masks indoors.

    Really? Enforced by whom?

    Indoors, the state is counting on business owners to enforce the mandates with private security or a refusal to sell to those who decline to wear masks. Outside, it would depend upon the police, the vast majority of whom are local law enforcement officers, deputy sheriffs and the like, who are already overworked and underpaid, most of whom are relatively conservative, and few of whom want to take on such additional duties.

    Add to that the fact that, outside of major cities, people are far enough apart that mask wearing is silly. Would the local deputy want to arrest me for walking around maskless when there’s nobody within thirty yards? It would be an interesting test: the deputy sees me without a mask, but no one around me, and then he approaches; in such a case, he created the violation, not me.

    It’s really a shame that we have outlawed the colonial Americans’ solution to these officious little pricks: the judicious application of tar and feathers.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  44. Our former Vice President is competing with our current President for ridiculous statements that will put him in the evening news and Sunday talk shows, that’s what he’s doing.

    But that’s not what the American people are looking for now. They want a normal person in the White House. A boring person even. And good sex, warm bathrooms, and comfortable shoes.

    nk (1d9030) — 8/13/2020 @ 5:58 pm

    If I cut Biden slack for not meaning “outdoors” in general, but outside of one’s home and in a place where they are going to be in close contact with others, then I don’t think his statement is that ridiculous. He is going after his opponent’s weak spot (well, one of them), and it will resonate with people, both Democrats and I suspect even frustrated Republicans who have given up on Trump taking the lead in the pandemic.

    I also agree that people just want “normal”. Boringly normal. And that’s the other reason Biden’s mask mandate ploy will be accepted by a lot of people: because it’s normal. This is the other disadvantage Trump is in: People are so desperate for normal, that even questionable proposals or silly ones coming from Biden will be seen reasonable because the person proposing them is way more normal than Trump. I’m betting that this will be the standard of comparison on most things going forward.

    Dana (292df6)

  45. Joe Biden thinks he can task
    All of us to wear a mask
    But we all know
    His brain is so slow
    And really he’s just an ass.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  46. Really? Enforced by whom?

    Errm, the same people who can look at your license plate and see if the one-and-a-half inch sticker there is this year’s color?

    nk (1d9030)

  47. Biden’s statement – including the recognition that it’s up to governors order and enforce the mandate – is spot on.

    It’s about time we had someone in Washington who will talk straight, and with some sense of urgency, about this crisis, and exhort people to do the right thing instead of the convenient and selfish thing.

    Six months of Trump’s “if you like your virus, you can keep your virus” schtick has put tens of thousands of Americans in the ground, cratered our economy and jeopardized the education and wellbeing of the young.

    FFS, enough is enough. Let’s beat this thing, like every other developed country has done, so we can get back to living our lives again.

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. Suppose all this mask-wearing results in 10,000 to 20,000 fewer flu deaths this coming winter. Does that mean we would have to keep up this mask regimen for the rest of our lives?

    If so, I will be taking the Gryph stance.

    And, while we’re at it, we should immediately change all speed limits to 5 MPH. Because any loss of life cannot be accepted, no matter the cost.

    norcal (a5428a)

  49. If I cut Biden slack for not meaning “outdoors” in general, but outside of one’s home and in a place where they are going to be in close contact with others, then I don’t think his statement is that ridiculous. He is going after his opponent’s weak spot (well, one of them), and it will resonate with people, both Democrats and I suspect even frustrated Republicans who have given up on Trump taking the lead in the pandemic.

    I also agree that people just want “normal”. Boringly normal. And that’s the other reason Biden’s mask mandate ploy will be accepted by a lot of people: because it’s normal. This is the other disadvantage Trump is in: People are so desperate for normal, that even questionable proposals or silly ones coming from Biden will be seen reasonable because the person proposing them is way more normal than Trump. I’m betting that this will be the standard of comparison on most things going forward.

    Dana (292df6) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:10 pm

    I think you’re doing that only because you dislike Trump and are trying to rationalize an alternative. Biden isn’t that alternative. He’s losing it and gone off the leftist deep end. Do you want Kamala Harris as your president with all that entails?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  50. The better-looking Dana wrote:

    While some states currently provide no enforcement guidance, or simply state that businesses may deny entry to those not wearing a mask, some states have actually determined that violators can be cited for a misdemeanor or fined.

    Reichsstatthalter Andy Beshear (NSDAP-KY) designated local Health Departments with enforcement authority. Of course, local Health Departments have no law enforcement authority on their own, and the most they could do is go to a judge to get a court order to do . . . something.

    I do not know why Herr Beshear chose this method, but I suspect that it has something to do with his inability to command local police and sheriff’s departments, or their willingness to comply even if he did so order them.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  51. Suppose all this mask-wearing results in 10,000 to 20,000 fewer flu deaths this coming winter. Does that mean we would have to keep up this mask regimen for the rest of our lives?

    If so, I will be taking the Gryph stance.

    I’m wondering if in addition to the mask, I should also wear an asafetida bag to keep non-mask wearers at a safe distance. Germs in my nostrils are not a matter of principle, you see.

    nk (1d9030)

  52. https://www.foxla.com/news/bloody-brawl-breaks-out-after-woman-throws-coffee-in-mans-face-for-not-wearing-mask

    This is what happens when virtue signalling mask fanatics demand, like Biden just did, that everyone wear masks in public instead of minding their own business and going their own way.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  53. Do you want Kamala Harris as your president with all that entails?

    If it’s between her and a lame-duck, completely unaccountable and unhinged Donald Trump, absolutely.

    Dave (1bb933)

  54. A Chicagoan wrote:

    Really? Enforced by whom?

    Errm, the same people who can look at your license plate and see if the one-and-a-half inch sticker there is this year’s color?

    LOL! In Pennsylvania, the Commonwealth did away with registration stickers for licence plates, and has instead been installing license plate readers in police cars. Those readers scan all of the license plates visible from the vehicle, and a computer then alerts the officer if a plate is expired. I guess that’s far more efficient than depending upon the eagle eyes of the police, as people have frequently gotten away with passing the police with expired stickers. Are they now going to be scanning for masks, not that you are required to wear a mask in your vehicle?

    Of course, in the Keystone State, if you insurance lapses, even for a day, your plates are suspended for ninety days even after you reinsure; I guess that Kommandant Wolf wants to use every technological means to bust you. Makes me glad I left Pennsylvania in 2017.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  55. @52 Not just in public, NJRob, but outdoors, in an uncrowded environment.

    norcal (a5428a)

  56. I think you’re doing that only because you dislike Trump and are trying to rationalize an alternative. Biden isn’t that alternative. He’s losing it and gone off the leftist deep end. Do you want Kamala Harris as your president with all that entails?

    I’m not trying to rationalize anything. As you well know, I dislike both Trump and Biden. Emphatically so. But Biden will appear more normal than Trump, no matter his suggestions, because that is how low the bar is that Trump has set. Honestly, Biden doesn’t have to be normal, just give the appearance of it. That, I think, is how much Trump has damaged a large swath of the American psyche.

    Dana (292df6)

  57. LOL! In Pennsylvania, the Commonwealth did away with registration stickers for licence plates, and has instead been installing license plate readers in police cars.

    Wrong move! That’s no way to run a bureaucratic police state. They should have the license plate readers in police cars, but they should also have the sheep jumping through the half-dozen hoops every year to purchase and replace the sticker. That’s how you preserve a habit of obedience. Or do they think Daylight Savings Time is sufficient?

    nk (1d9030)

  58. This is what happens when virtue signalling mask fanatics demand, like Biden just did, that everyone wear masks in public instead of minding their own business and going their own way.

    What you meant to say is “this is what happens when unpatriotic and selfish people refuse to follow lawful public health measures that will defend our country from the scourge that’s ravaged it for half a year.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  59. Yes ive noticed that

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/commentary-my-views-cloth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19

    Even when he is in the right. Biden has rarely been right in policy terms for nearly 50 years

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  60. Yes the stainless steel rat, because all this alchemy about social distancing and enforced masks has brought out my rebel side, the fact that rioters have free reign is the flipaide of the matter.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  61. If it’s between her and a lame-duck, completely unaccountable and unhinged Donald Trump, absolutely.

    Dave (1bb933) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:24 pm

    I know you do Dave. But I think everyone here knew that about you already.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  62. I’m not trying to rationalize anything. As you well know, I dislike both Trump and Biden. Emphatically so. But Biden will appear more normal than Trump, no matter his suggestions, because that is how low the bar is that Trump has set. Honestly, Biden doesn’t have to be normal, just give the appearance of it. That, I think, is how much Trump has damaged a large swath of the American psyche.

    Dana (292df6) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:29 pm

    The vast majority doesn’t pay attention to Twitter and knows the press is biased in the same way Pravda was.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  63. Wrong move! That’s no way to run a bureaucratic police state. They should have the license plate readers in police cars, but they should also have the sheep jumping through the half-dozen hoops every year to purchase and replace the sticker. That’s how you preserve a habit of obedience. Or do they think Daylight Savings Time is sufficient?

    nk (1d9030) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:31 pm

    That’s what NJ does. Our registration used to be every other year. Nope. Not acceptable. Not enough lapses in registration. So they moved it to every year. Need that revenue stream off the public’s back.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  64. What you meant to say is “this is what happens when unpatriotic and selfish people refuse to follow lawful public health measures that will defend our country from the scourge that’s ravaged it for half a year.”

    Dave (1bb933) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:31 pm

    Who are you calling unpatriotic and selfish? I look forward to your response.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  65. That, I think, is how much Trump has damaged a large swath of the American psyche.

    By the looks and governance of Democratic-controlIed major metro areas, already greatly damaged by a combination of brain hypoxia and syphillis.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. Who are you calling unpatriotic and selfish? I look forward to your response.

    The virus-supporters in the article you linked.

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. And you see what stepping into a particle accelerator does, dont try this at home.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  68. The GOP’s QAnon congresswoman is also a 9/11 truther.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. Duh! She’s from Georgia?

    nk (1d9030)

  70. Who are the virus supporters Dave?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  71. Wearing masks should be mandatory. What right do you have to give someone covid-19?

    asset (6e3133)

  72. So if the country has been locked down for months where did this come from
    https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1293909437501997058

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  73. Dana,

    I know you’ve said that Biden would bring a semblance of normalcy, but I don’t think lying and race baiting is the type of normalcy you desire.

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/08/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-deploy.html#more

    Perhaps Ms. Althouse can change your mind.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  74. NJRob,

    I’ll quote myself:

    But Biden will appear more normal than Trump, no matter his suggestions, because that is how low the bar is that Trump has set. Honestly, Biden doesn’t have to be normal, just give the appearance of it.

    Dana (292df6)

  75. 3/4 OT, but I have the complete opposite view…Rust Belt voters will want to prove their manhood against the conventional wisdom pushed on them by the experts and the tower:

    http://news.yahoo.com/analysts-think-loss-college-football-111100046.html

    urbanleftbehind (78bfa2)

  76. Really? Enforced by whom?“

    Gotta enforce something, laws against looting and riots and murder not so much.
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  77. Dana,

    I don’t see how supporting radical leftism, aka socialism, is normal. I don’t see how supporting racism and division is normal either.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  78. Biden is taking the mask thing a step too far. Governor Inslee has it right, IMO: Wear a mask at indoor public spaces and indoors if you can’t achieve social distancing, and wear a mask outdoors if you can’t achieve social distancing. There’s no reason to wear it outside at all times.
    Politically, however, Biden is differentiating himself from Trump by taking the virus seriously, which is a good move.

    Paul Montagu (c280e0)

  79. Inslee was my dark horse, certainly not Biden…had he not went nads-deep on being climate change guy and thus been a bigger contendah by late Spring, I dont think that CHAZ thing would have been allowed to fester more than 1 World Star HipHop video.

    urbanleftbehind (cd265d)

  80. He had the endurance of a ferret on double expresso.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  81. @83 Good one, narciso! (Do we still call you narciso?)

    norcal (a5428a)

  82. Who did JoeyBee plagiarize the premise of mask wearing from?

    [ ] Batman

    [ ] The Lone Ranger

    [ ] The Green Hornet

    [ X ] Dr. Fauci

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  83. But Biden will appear more normal than Trump, no matter his suggestions, because that is how low the bar is that Trump has set.

    The world is long through the Looking Glass on what is supposed to appear ‘normal’ in America. What matters to the electorate is who appears to be alive, animated– and engagingly entertaining to the TeeVee audience… Trump has that nailed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. BTW, wearing a black mask is racist, Joe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. The ones refusing to wear masks Rob.

    Dave (1bb933)

  86. Got an email today saying the campus “expects” most instruction in Winter (Jan-Mar) and Spring (Apr-Jun) quarters to be remote.

    Not a decision, much less a final decision, but in line with what I expected.

    Thanks, Obama.

    Dave (1bb933)

  87. Base on balls Biden has been hit by a too many fast balls.
    Time to see a medic, Joe.

    mg (8cbc69)

  88. Dana,

    I don’t see how supporting radical leftism, aka socialism, is normal. I don’t see how supporting racism and division is normal either.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/13/2020 @ 7:42 pm

    By your metric he’s 50/50 worse then trump on socialism, but less racist and divisive .

    Time123 (653992)

  89. Please, it’s obvious Biden is speaking here in generalities. He didn’t mention specific policy proposals about his nationwide mask-wearing mandate, probably because he hasn’t formulated one yet, this early in the campaign. No, he just used a common colloquial term, “outside,” which most people would take to mean “outdoors in public places.” Or, at least, that’ how any sentient person capable of understanding simple verbal communication would take it to mean.

    It is a sad commentary in discourse in America these days when a candidate, man or woman, cannot make an innocuous, inoffensive comment about a future policy proposal, without having his or her words so twisted and deformed beyond recognition, so as to be accused of being un-American. Biden certainly didn’t imply that by “outside” he meant everywhere out of a house or apartment. No mandate like that could possibly be extended to front and back lawn of private residences, for example, or to sparsely populated areas where neighbors or acres or miles apart. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous and inane.

    What Biden did indicate, purposely, is that he and his administration are going to take containing coronavirus outbreaks and public health and safety on day one. As I noted on an earlier thread, this will be the main these of the Biden-Harris ticket, presenting a stark contrast between their plan to control the virulent spread of infections, hospitalizations and deaths, and the Trump-Pence administration’s utter lack of one, or their abject failure in implementing one if they did.

    Trump, one the other hand, blatantly lies with every utterance he makes. His juvenile remarks are filled with petty name calling, racist, sexist, anti-immigrant tropes, and grade-school insults. And he does so without hesitation or shame.

    Questioning whether Harris meets the eligibility requirements for citizenship to qualify for nomination for vice-president? Seriously, that is so lame.

    Or how about openly threatening to defund the postal service to hinder mail-in voting efforts? That’s flat-out voter suppression, right out of Jim Crow. And it is patently unconstitutional. Even more hypocritically, Trump himself, his third-wife, other members of his family and administration openly participate in mail-in voting.

    Biden makes an innocuous, inoffensive comment using a colloquial term, referring a future policy proposal to control a highly infectious disease that has infected literally millions of Americans, is killing over a thousand a day and has already killed over 165,000, which very likely an undercount, with no end in sight for the foreseeable future. And the conspiracy theorists get their adult diapers in a twist, in their ignorant zeal to mangle the meaning of one word.

    Trump makes overt threats against the foundations of American democracy and civil society. And all the butt gerbils can do is squeal, barely heard of the sounds of crickets chirping.

    These is something very wrong with this picture. God help the once great country, because Trump is most assuredly not going to gently into that good night. He’s already laying the foundations for making accusations of fraud and corruption in the electoral process, threats of innumerable lawsuits intended to delegitimize the outcome of the election, including transparently veiled overtures about disrupting the vote counting of legitimate ballots cast by mail.

    It is bloodcurdling to me that every American is not intensely insulted by this cretin and his cadre of corrupt cohorts.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  90. Dave wrote:

    This is what happens when virtue signalling mask fanatics demand, like Biden just did, that everyone wear masks in public instead of minding their own business and going their own way.

    What you meant to say is “this is what happens when unpatriotic and selfish people refuse to follow lawful public health measures that will defend our country from the scourge that’s ravaged it for half a year.”

    Well, we know that the authoritarians say that these are “lawful public health measures,” and that the sheeple have gone along with it, but I consider many of them to be unlawful.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  91. NJRob wrote:

    What you meant to say is “this is what happens when unpatriotic and selfish people refuse to follow lawful public health measures that will defend our country from the scourge that’s ravaged it for half a year.” –Dave (1bb933) — 8/13/2020 @ 6:31 pm

    Who are you calling unpatriotic and selfish? I look forward to your response.

    Why, don’t you know? He is calling everyone who refuses to follow authoritarian dictators like sheep “unpatriotic and selfish.”

    I’m pretty sure that was how King George and his Parliament viewed those rabble-rousing colonists 2½ centuries ago.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  92. Ditto, and the worst offenders cuomo up to lepages replacement, the midwest trifecta of murdernors are barely mentioned.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  93. I am not making this up. Every word is true. In Germany, the bureaucratic police state Matriarchy is making men sit down to urinate. Like women. How is it doing it? By way of toilets that splatter all over the place if the man urinates standing up. Even if he personally does not mind having urine all over his shoes, his pants legs, the whole bathroom actually, he will have other people who share that bathroom with him who do and will make his life even more* miserable. There is more than one way to fascist. They don’t all involve mandates.

    *(ordinary misery being the steady state for Germans)

    nk (1d9030)

  94. I have read your referenced story, nk, and will now adopt the name ‘Sitzpinkler’ to refer to former Vice President Biden.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  95. That is what fraulein merkel, stasi girl s out has wrought.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  96. By way of toilets that splatter all over the place if the man urinates standing up.

    I should give more detail. The German toilets are not like others. They have a shelf, above the water, that the urine hits and then splatters.

    nk (1d9030)

  97. But this is the plan of she men and the soy boy warriors, i thought maniates were made of stronger stuff.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  98. So this old grifter and his coked up spawn, ready to bury this country,…profit, and turn if over to this slattern who failed to pursue the major criminal elements and wants the people disarmed.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  99. Some guy from Illinois wrote:

    I should give more detail. The German toilets are not like others. They have a shelf, above the water, that the urine hits and then splatters.

    I can’t remember the source, but I saw this poem by a guy suffering a hangover:

    When water falls on water
    It makes a sound that all can hear
    But when water falls on porcelain
    It is silent to the ear.

    Obviously I didn’t take photos, but I’ve seen Italian public toilets that are simply porcelain lined holes in the floor. Not bad for number one, but . . . .

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  100. That seems decidely unsanitary.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  101. 103. THank you, Captain Obvious. 😉

    One avenue of research I’ve not seen explored extensively in the media, is the correlation between CoViD-19 transmission rates and the mandates of P-traps in plumbing. The received wisdom is that CoViD is spread by respiratory droplets, but many more viral and bacterial particles are shed in fecal matter. As demonstrated upthread, not every culture or country has the same respect for that danger that we do.

    Gryph (f63000)

  102. Let’s not overstate our case. Biden was decidedly a much less undredged sewer than Trump until he stocked it with a rabid crocodile.

    nk (1d9030)

  103. I think that Trump partisans should wear clown noses when they go outside.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. @75

    But Biden will appear more normal than Trump, no matter his suggestions, because that is how low the bar is that Trump has set. Honestly, Biden doesn’t have to be normal, just give the appearance of it.
    Dana (292df6) — 8/13/2020 @ 7:28 pm

    I don’t think that’s even possible.

    Biden was/is extremely divisive and racist.

    Unless you’re referring to Trump’s ubiquitous tweets and daily-tango with the media that greatly increases the chances of inserting his own foot in his mouth?

    I’d argue that if Biden held near daily interviews with the media and tweets as much as Trump, he’d compete with Trump with how low that bar would be set.

    whembly (c30c83)

  105. I’ve got their droplets right here. And aerosols too. Unless it’s superheated to above 212 degrees Fahrenheit (live steam), all moisture in the air is droplets. So are all aerosols. There cam be virus anywhere where people exhale and there are no air currents to carry it away.

    nk (1d9030)

  106. #101 — I don’t think you have stated Ivanka’s policy views correctly…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  107. Because Donald Trump is Chaotic-Neutral, maybe Chaotic-Evil.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. Kamala is Lawful-Evil, Biden is True Neutral

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. Make Bolivar Narciso Again!

    And besides, didn’t Hugo Chavez ruin that particular brand e.g Bolivarian this, Bolivarian that?

    urbanleftbehind (cd265d)

  110. Wanting the best for our country would make President Trump chaotic good; if he only wants the best for himself, he would be chaotic neutral. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris Emhoff both support increasing government control over our lives and our economy, which makes them both evil; whether it’s lawful evil is debatable.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  111. All I know regarding porcelain and bathrooms is never get into a fight in bathroom with lots of porcelain fixtue6rs…cinematically, The Warriors and Whiteboyz taught me that lesson.

    urbanleftbehind (cd265d)

  112. Honestly, Biden doesn’t have to be normal, just give the appearance of it.

    The hope is that people who think this way will finally wake up and realize who they are in bed with and who and what they have them believing.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  113. 101. Bolivar di griz

    I am glad you added the part about the VP wanting the country disarmed since the part where you describe the President applies to Trump and Biden.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  114. Why, don’t you know? He is calling everyone who refuses to follow authoritarian dictators like sheep “unpatriotic and selfish.”

    If you’re curious who is preparing generations of she-men and soy boy warriors (h/t narciso), you need look no further.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. It will be hard for Biden to wear a mask for three months. Hard to nuzzle young ladies with a mask on…

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  116. Why, don’t you know? He is calling everyone who refuses to follow authoritarian dictators like sheep “unpatriotic and selfish.”

    I’m pretty sure that was how King George and his Parliament viewed those rabble-rousing colonists 2½ centuries ago.

    What idiocy.

    The governors mandating masks were elected by the people affected, and the laws giving them the authority were passed by an elected legislature and signed into law by elected governors.

    But other than that it’s *exactly* like unelected King George and the parliament where colonists had no representation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  117. I wonder whether Gryph and the rest of the “masks are fake news” crowd has ever had any sort of serious surgery. Do you want your surgeon wearing a mask? Do you understand why surgeons wear masks, or do you think they’re a bunch of sheeple too?

    Leviticus (90a7a4)

  118. @121

    I wonder whether Gryph and the rest of the “masks are fake news” crowd has ever had any sort of serious surgery. Do you want your surgeon wearing a mask? Do you understand why surgeons wear masks, or do you think they’re a bunch of sheeple too?

    Leviticus (90a7a4) — 8/14/2020 @ 8:12 am

    Here’s the difference.

    Surgeons and other healthcare professionals are trained to using PPEs to mitigate infections.

    Every. Single. Time. I leave the house… I witnessed so may folks wearing their masks in correctly, constantly touching it/adjusting… just makes my eyes twitch uncontrollably.

    Another thing I’d like to point out is that the CDC guidelines states that vents/ports don’t stop the spread:
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

    Yet I see more folks using vented masks than not.

    Goes to show, that the public has a looooooong way to go to properly use masks as a mitigation strategy, such that I wonder how effective it truly is in reducing the spread.

    whembly (c30c83)

  119. I wonder how Gryph et. al. feel about seat belt laws. The arguments against masks are essentially the same made against seat belts.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  120. The ones refusing to wear masks Rob.

    Dave (1bb933) — 8/13/2020 @ 10:43 pm

    You realize the 2 men were sitting outdoors eating lunch when the busybody mask enforcers demanded they stop eating in peace to put on masks, which makes eating impossible, then when the mask enforcers were ignored, the woman threw coffee on one of the guys.

    No wonder you love Biden Dave.

    And Gawain’s Ghost, the result I linked and Dave’s support of the mask enforcers in an outdoor, open venue disputes your claim that Biden didn’t mean outdoors when he said outdoors.

    NJRob (433bc4)

  121. Mike
    @Doranimated

    Aug 13
    Replying to
    @Doranimated
    “Here’s my neighborhood, Mike: An elderly man, enjoying dinner w/his wife at an outdoor restaurant, punched in the face. A woman waiting for the subway to come stabbed in the back. An older neighbor pausing to catch his breath told to pay two dollars in protection money or get
    68
    3.1K
    6.4K

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    “the f*ck off that particular street corner. This is just the ten block radius from where I live in the last six days.” Other friends from NY talk about shattered business districts, drugstores with locked shelves, and hundreds of homeless people and parolees, including sex

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    offenders, being moved into hotels on the Upper West Side adjacent to schools and playgrounds, which are filled with needles again like in the 1970s. Friends in Philadelphia report large homeless encampments in the city center and being robbed at gunpoint.

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    Friends in LA talk about squatters taking over empty homes in professional class neighborhoods whose residents fantasize about emigrating to Canada. Friends in all three cities have seen police officers refuse to get out of their cars while large-scale lawbreaking takes place

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    in front of them. That’s in addition to the obvious mayhem being perpetrated on a nightly basis in Portland, Seattle and Chicago. Estimates are that up to one million people have already fled New York City — meaning nearly everyone who has the means to leave has left.

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    Minneapolis is a smoldering ruin that has sustained untold damage to its immigrant neighborhoods. This is not what I am reading. This is what I am hearing from people directly.
    Make no mistake about it: America is now in the middle of a 70s style urban crisis whose root is a

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    well-founded fear of violent crime and social collapse in the midst of a pandemic. The destructive spiral that has been unleashed by leftwing play-acting at revolution and pursuit of stupid fantasies of abolishing the police is destroying our greatest cities.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. Democratic ownership of BLM… Antifa… defunding law enforcement… arson, rioting n’ looting…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  123. You realize the 2 men were sitting outdoors eating lunch when the busybody mask enforcers demanded they stop eating in peace to put on masks

    No, I don’t realize that, because it’s not true.

    I hadn’t even gotten to start eating the burrito yet before someone wanted to give me a mask lecture,” Roy said.

    The men said clearly that they refuse to wear masks regardless of the circumstances.

    They clearly weren’t wearing them when they bought whatever they were going to eat.

    No wonder you love Biden Dave.

    I don’t love Biden.

    Dave (1bb933)

  124. 106.I think that Trump partisans should wear clown noses when they go outside.

    Senior moments: I think that Plagiarist JoeyBee partisans should wear pants when they go outside.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. Try and put one on a Trump partisan, you better have a gun, bud. We are all done effing around with this b.s.

    mg (8cbc69)

  126. Off topic, but Barr did not need a Durham investigation to get a guilty plea from Clinesmith. The IG had already had him dead to rights. Also, Durham will not unearth a vast anti-Trump conspiracy.

    But prosecutors were not expected to reveal any evidence in charging documents that show Mr. Clinesmith’s actions were part of any broader conspiracy to undermine Mr. Trump, the people said.

    In other words, IG Horowitz did his job, and Durham (so far) has not found a new scalp for Trump-Barr to war-whoop about.

    Paul Montagu (c280e0)

  127. Mike
    @Doranimated

    Aug 13
    to what’s actually happening in other big cities across the country.

    What’s happening is this: Thirty years of very meaningful social and economic progress in our cities — which has hugely benefited minorities — is being undone by a toxic coalition of professional ideologues

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    and “organizers,” rich kids in Che t-shirts, well-coiffed Mayors, and a National Democratic Party that pretends that the ongoing destruction of minority owned businesses and the social and economic infrastructure that is a primary engine for raising African American

    Mike
    @DoranimatedAug 13
    and immigrant families into the middle class is somehow about “civil rights” or “racial inequality.” It is not.

    It is about a war on the American middle class being waged from above and below by people whose response to the values and the struggles of average American families

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    is hostility and contempt — and who imagine that the threat of further violence is a crowbar they can use to get Donald Trump out of the White House. Sacrificing America’s cities on the altar of their political cause may seem bizarre, because that’s where so many of their

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    voters live — but it’s not. Who else are urban liberals going to vote for? Suburbanites can’t help but see the destruction of the cities as a harbinger of what could be next for them. The question is who can protect them — Donald Trump, or the people who celebrate the CHAZ.

    Mike
    @Doranimated
    Aug 13
    I know how I answer that question.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  128. Well, NJRob, Biden didn’t say outdoors, he said “outside.” Please use the correct quote if you want to attempt to refute my perfectly understandable interpretation of what he meant when he said “outside.”

    You know, I finally got around to renewing my vehicle registration the other day. I supposed to renew in April, so I went and got an inspection, then gathered up my renewal notification and proof of insurance. But when I got to the DMV, the entire building was in lockdown, closed.

    That was shortly after the county commissioner had issued mandatory of all non-essential buildings and government offices, mandatory face coverings in public, and mandatory limitations on gatherings to ten people or less, including in small stores and 25% capacity in large stores, like Walmart and HEB. Entrances were closed, leaving only one open, and outside stood security guards only allowed entry to the number of customers equal the number of customers who exited the establishment.

    Was it a pain? Yeah. What would have otherwise been a ten-minute drive to the corner store to pay cash for gas turned into a forty-five minute ordeal, standing in line, just to walk in, hand the clerk $20, say “pump No. 8, premium unleaded,” and walk out in less than thirty seconds on the way to the pump. Going to buy groceries was even more of an ordeal. What previously would have been a short journey to the store, maybe 60 or 90 minutes to pick up some necessities and check out, became a three to four hour exercise in frustration, with strict face mask requirements–couldn’t enter the building with out a face mask, or take off your face mask at any time while inside–and very strict social distancing protocols. Plus there were limitations on the amount of certain items you could purchase, like bottled water, toilet paper, bread, butter, eggs, and so forth, to prevent hording.

    It was incredible really, but it was like overnight, or over the weekend for several nights, by the time the lockdown was eased about a week later, every building, every establishment, every store, every government office, every place of business had signs painted on the floor–“Please practice social distancing”–every six feet, meaning stand here until the customer or patron in front of you moves to the next floor sign, then you can proceed to the next floor sign.

    That’s the was it was at the DMV. There were armed security guards that would have forcibly removed my if I had tried to enter without a face mask. I wouldn’t have been able to get through the door. Then I had to stand at an intervention desk, for lack of a better term, and answer a series of questions. Have you had a fever recently? Is anyone in your household infected with coronavirus? Do you personally know or had any contact with anyone who is infected with coronavirus? And so on. I had to have my temperature taken and use the hand sanitizer provided, before I could proceed to the first floor sign on the aisle to the glass-covered booth, and stand there until the next floor sign in front of me was available so I could proceed forward. It took two hours. When I finally got to the booth, I apologized to the clerk behind the glass panel for the delay in renewing my registration, explained it was unavoidable. She politely said it was okay, there would be no late fee, but there would be a $2.50 surcharge if I used my debit card. All of this just to renew my vehicle registration.

    It’s the same at the bank. I cannot enter the main building without first calling ahead and making an appointment. I will have to answer roughly the same questions I was asked at the DMV, plus some additional security questions. All other transactions are to be conducted at the drive-through or at the teller window.

    What if I come into a large sum of money, spread out over several payments totaling more than $1,000,000 from my mother’s life insurance, the liquidation of her bank and savings accounts, the sale of her 52% ownership shares of the company, and the estate sale of her remaining assets? Suppose I want to not deposit that much money in one account, but want to open a savings/money market account or two, perhaps another separate checking account and order a box of checks, so as to keep the total amount deposited below the $200,000 limit the FDIC will insure an account for, in the event of bank failure or severe economic distress.

    Well, can’t do that at the teller window. Can’t do any of that without calling ahead and making an appointment, answering the same redundant coronavirus and security questions each and every time, before I will be allowed into the bank to speak with a customer service representative, while wearing a mandatory mask from six feet away.

    My parents the bank’s most trusted and valued customers for 52 years. If my mother had withdrawn her company’s accounts, it would have left the bank in ruin within a matter of weeks. I myself had been banking there since I was seven in 1968, when my mother opened a savings account in my name so she didn’t have to pay me cash for all the grounds keeping, pool cleaning at the complex and the yard work and house cleaning on her listings she had me doing for years. She never actually paid me, but rather she would simply deposit my earnings into the savings account she had set up in my name.

    It’s not like these people do not know my parents and me. Okay, they really don’t; we’ve been banking here since long before any of them were born. But, seriously don’t you think that in the event of a change in ownership, management, customer service and teller staff, of which there have been several over the years, including a complete takeover and name change, it would be prudent business practice to inform the incomers along the lines of something like, these are our most valued customers, you cannot afford to lose their business? One would think that would be protocol.

    This bank has always treated us well, and they have always immediately responded to correct any complaints we might have, once they realized who they were dealing with. Hey, with the stroke of a pen, we could have shut down all our accounts and taken our business elsewhere, to any one of a number of banks, or several if we wanted to. And that would have been the end of them.

    So, in the end, the question is, at what point does it become not worth it? This pandemic is causing widespread economic ruin. This is the truth, this is the reality. It has affected our company in ways you cannot imagine. No assignments, no listings, no sales, no income or profits for the last four months. You don’t think that doesn’t hurt? And we’re certainly not the only ones suffering. States are reopening and closing, businesses are reopening and closing, schools are reopening and closing, hospitals and clinics are overrun to the brink of exhaustion, as the coronavirus spreads unabated, out of control.

    So, the final exit question to all the butt gerbil conspiracy theorists, is this. Which do you consider as more of a threat to your individual rights and imagined liberty? Wearing a mask, practicing social distancing and personal hygiene, as per recommendations from reasonable public health authorities, or almost certain death, after long suffering in a hospital alone?

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  129. He is followed by Kamala Harris, but I tuned out at that point.

    I heard a sound byte on the evening news. Kamala Harris was trying to make the point that even if avaccine was announced it wouldn’t mean anything to most people. She said they should ask themselves: When (i.e. at what date) would I actually get vaccinated?

    As if Biden and company would act faster. Well, they;d say they’d roll it out faster, once approved.

    Or at least they’d pass some legislation that was supposed to get it to people faster even if it did little or nothing.

    Or perhaps prioritize people who presumably voted for them.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  130. around 40–45% of people who contract SARS-CoV-2 most likely remain symptom-free. Such cases may contribute to the “silent spread” of the virus.

    No, usually only people who are about to become symptomatic can transmit the virus. Virus can be detected at very low concentrations by a PCR test. The superspreading events seem to come from the day before someone became symptomatic.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  131. 92. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 8/14/2020 @ 5:20 am

    is killing over a thousand a day and has already killed over 165,000, which very likely an undercount,

    Here are the statistics:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  132. #121 Those masks are worn in surgical rooms to prevent bacterial infections. Not viruses. Apples and oranges.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  133. #133 None of that matters to Dave. Your business is obviously a threat to human existence and must be destroyed for the common good.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  134. So, in the end, the question is, at what point does it become not worth it? This pandemic is causing widespread economic ruin. This is the truth, this is the reality. It has affected our company in ways you cannot imagine. No assignments, no listings, no sales, no income or profits for the last four months. You don’t think that doesn’t hurt? And we’re certainly not the only ones suffering. States are reopening and closing, businesses are reopening and closing, schools are reopening and closing, hospitals and clinics are overrun to the brink of exhaustion, as the coronavirus spreads unabated, out of control.

    Legitimate, serious questions that both sides will handle in a strictly partisan and shrill way. Either we’re all going to die or we’re all going to starve, depending on who you ask.

    I’ve been out and about, talking to a lot of people, hopefully not getting any of them sick. The frustration and fear about the economy is deep and wide. Domestic violence, suicide, they are probably worse than ever in my city. Biden’s mask mandate can easily be criticized as unenforceable by people who note how difficult it is for masks to catch all tiny virus particles, but the cost is truly small to tell everyone to wear masks.

    In my city I believe there’s only been one ticket issued. The fine is up to $2k. That’s how to do it. Most cops will just hand you a free paper mask and warn you without identifying you, but they will warn you there’s a $2k fine, so people put the mask on.

    Masks can lead to a little more economic activity. There needs to be a push to make your neighbor confident. And we need to defeat the ignorance that masks don’t do any good because they aren’t perfect, or that wearing a mask is a severe hardship.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  135. Gryph wrote:

    One avenue of research I’ve not seen explored extensively in the media, is the correlation between CoViD-19 transmission rates and the mandates of P-traps in plumbing.

    Perhaps you are unaware of the purpose of P or S traps in plumbing waste lines. They are designed to hold water, to prevent sewer gases from rising and stinking up your house. You really do want them in place.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  136. 140. I am quite well-aware of the function that P-traps serve in keeping hydrogen sulfide gas from rising into homes, but they also serve the bonus function of stopping raw sewage from splashing back. Places that do not mandate P-traps actually have much *higher* incidents of CoViD-19, with the correlation strong enough to warrant further controlled testing (if it hasn’t already been done).

    Gryph (f63000)

  137. 123. Seat belt laws were duly passed by legislatures in the states that have them. I can choose not to drive. No state legislature has passed a mask mandate; it’s all been done by gubernatorial fiat. And I’d have a major problem with seat belts as well if that’s how they were mandated.

    Gryph (f63000)

  138. 122. And considering I have never used “fake news” in reference to either CoViD-19 or mask mandates, I find your phraseology to border on the slanderous.

    Gryph (f63000)

  139. 121. My surgeon wears surgical-grade masks in already-sterile environments before he even wheels his patients into the operating theater. That’s a pretty weak argument.

    Gryph (f63000)

  140. 120. Generally, chief executives do not have the authority to legislate. If they desire such authority, they should be legislators instead of chief executives. Weren’t many of you pro-mask-mandate crowd here crowing about how illegal Obama’s executive orders were? I seem to recall something about “usurping legislative prerogative,” or something-or-other like that. That sort of thing applies at the state level as well, unless you covid-cowards are a bunch of hypocrites.

    Scratch a conservative…

    Gryph (f63000)

  141. Your business is obviously a threat to human existence and must be destroyed for the common good.

    If Trump had encouraged people to take the virus seriously from the beginning, coordinated a national testing and contact tracing program with governors, followed his own administration’s guidelines instead of clamoring for states to violate them as soon as they were announced, and his cultists had followed scientific advice instead of his idiocy, the virus would have been in full retreat months ago, as it is everywhere else in Western Europe and East Asia, tens of thousands of victims would still be alive, and businesses and workers would be back on their feet instead of praying for more government hand-outs to survive.

    But because it was too hard for Trump to understand that controlling virus was necessary before trying to resume normal economic and social activity, we get the worst of both worst worlds: month after month of damage to the economy and unemployment AND 20-100 times the per capita death rate of countries less advanced than us.

    We have 4% of the world’s population, and over 22% of the COVID-19 deaths.

    #MAGA

    Dave (1bb933)

  142. I’ve been giving this a lot of thought and I side with the folks who contend that the last thing the USA needs is a president who had to repeat the 3rd grade.

    Sorry, Joe…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  143. Generally, chief executives do not have the authority to legislate.

    And the mask mandates are not legislation.

    Duly-enacted laws give health officials and governors broad authority to take necessary measures in the event of public health crises.

    If you want to leave your family, friends and neighbors defenseless, you should elect people who will repeal those laws, or governors who won’t use them to protect peoples’ lives.

    And in fact your state already has such a governor.

    Dave (1bb933)

  144. Dave wrote:

    Duly-enacted laws give health officials and governors broad authority to take necessary measures in the event of public health crises.

    If you want to leave your family, friends and neighbors defenseless, you should elect people who will repeal those laws, or governors who won’t use them to protect peoples’ lives.

    And it is for this reason that I may run for the state legislature in 2022.

    The state constitution strictly limits the General Assembly:

    The General Assembly meets annually in the state capitol building in Frankfort, Kentucky, convening on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in January. In even-numbered years, sessions may not last more than 60 legislative days, and cannot extend beyond April 15. In odd-numbered years, sessions may not last more than 30 legislative days, and cannot extend beyond March 30. Special sessions may be called by the Governor of Kentucky at any time for any duration.

    Reichsstatthalter Beshear rules unchecked by the legislature for the rest of the year, and the General Assembly does not have the authority to call itself back into session. If elected, I will introduce legislation which will restrict the Governor’s emergency powers to fourteen days, and which will automatically call the General Assembly into special session within fourteen days if the Governor exercises those powers, and will hold that the Governor’s orders cannot be renewed without the consent of the legislature. He could have called a special session, but declined to do so, because the legislature might not grant his wishes:

    Beshear was asked at Friday’s (July 10, 2020) news conference on COVID-19 why he has not included the legislature in coming up with his orders. He said many state lawmakers refuse to wear masks and noted that 26 legislators in Mississippi have tested positive for the virus.

    Had this idiocy started a month earlier, I would be running this year, but when it struck, the courthouses closed down, right at the time limit to file for election, and we had no idea that the Governor would use that as an excuse to assume dictatorial powers.. If a decent Republican wins for this district this year, I shouldn’t need to run, but if the incumbent Democrat, whose nickname is “Cluster”, with all that entails, wins again, I’ll run, and I will be running on that platform.

    I would prefer to simply eliminate the Governor’s emergency powers altogether, but that would never pass.

    The Dana in Kentucky (74fdd4)

  145. to assume dictatorial powers

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)


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