Patterico's Pontifications

8/5/2020

On Rioting: Two Different Voices, Two Different Perspectives

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:32 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Yesterday, Red Nation Rising posted a plea made on behalf of rioters everywhere:

While these nationwide rallies began as righteous and peaceful protests, the young person in the video concedes and confirms, however unwittingly, that devolution has occurred: riots, not mere protests. This, of course, leads to the obvious: if you don’t want to get arrested, don’t destroy public property or commit acts of violence. [Ed. I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will: this does not excuse the bad behavior by some law enforcement officers or relieve of accountability those whose abusive acts have been captured on video. It is possible to hold more than one thought in our heads at the same time: we can be concerned about the destruction and violence wrought by individuals in various cities, we can be concerned about the overreach of the federal government, and we can be concerned about the abuses of law enforcement on the ground. This post does seek to prioritize the concerns, just address one of them.]

With that, Portland’s Chuck Lovell makes, not so much a plea as a reaffirmation of committment to the people of Portland. As a black man who just happens to be the city’s Chief of Police, he sets the stage beginning with the killing of George Floyd to the eventual attack on the Justice Center:

After the horrendous killing of George Floyd, people in Portland, Ore., joined with thousands across the country in demonstrations to address police reform and widespread systemic racism. The leaders of the Portland Police Bureau denounced this tragic death, and we reiterated our willingness to engage in reforms.

But Portland has now faced weeks of extreme difficulties and drew intense national attention after federal officers were deployed here.

As police officers, our duty is to uphold the rights of anyone to assemble peacefully and engage in free speech. But over the months of protests, a concerning dynamic developed. People protested peacefully, while others engaged in dangerous activities that could have resulted in injury and even death.

After hours of largely peaceful demonstrations in Portland, Ore., following the killing of George Floyd, violence erupted on Friday, May 29.

The night of May 29 was a pivotal moment for our city. Hundreds of people, in a coordinated effort, attacked the Justice Center, which includes our Central Precinct station and the Multnomah County Detention Center. They broke into the building, destroyed the first-floor interior and lit fires. Afterward, there was looting and destruction downtown.

Yet in the following weeks, thousands of people demonstrated peacefully in an awesome expression of First Amendment rights. The Police Bureau had little to no interaction with members of this group, because they did not allow criminal activity to implode their message.

Lovell helps us understand his perspective, and what he has faced in the past few weeks:

As a Black man and a public servant, I have a unique perspective. I agree with a local pastor, E.D. Mondainé, who stated these “spectacles” are drowning out the voices that need to be heard to make positive change. This violence is doing nothing to further the Black Lives Matter movement.

On one night, for example, individuals screwed the doors of our North Precinct station shut, barricaded other entrances and lit the station on fire with people inside. Nearby businesses, owned by people of color, were damaged and looted. On other nights, there were multiple attempts to breach the Justice Center. Other law enforcement facilities were targeted, including the union building, which was broken into and had fires set within.

And as with everything life, if one does not have foresight, and consider the unintended consequences, the very people in immediate need are the ones who will inevitably be hurt:

The voices of victims are not heard as well. Because of the protests, officers have not been able to respond to 911 calls or have been delayed for hours. Investigators’ cases lie on their desks as they work nights to process arrests. We have seen an alarming increase in shootings and homicides. We need to redirect our focus to preventing and solving these crimes that are taking a hugely disproportionate number of minority lives.

In spite of everything that is going on, Lovell remains optimistic and as committed as ever to protecting Americans:

I have said frequently that the Portland Police Bureau is committed to reform. We are a progressive agency and have demonstrated our willingness to change over the past eight years. Working with the Department of Justice, we have made significant changes to our policies and training. The Portland Police Bureau’s policy on the use of deadly force is more restrictive than state and federal law.

We recently enhanced our Community Engagement Unit to help build trust and legitimacy with the communities we serve. We have also developed several advisory councils that help the Police Bureau make decisions with the benefit of a diverse set of inputs.

The Portland Police Bureau has had an equity and inclusion office for over five years. I recently changed the organizational structure to have it report directly to me, to ensure we are prioritizing its work.

I have confidence in our community and the people who have dedicated their lives to building relationships with police. They have stood up and said no more violence. I stand with them with a servant’s heart, committed to being leaders in police reform.

Some people believe you have to tear it all down in a long-overdue reckoning before you can build up an equitable structure giving testimony to real change. Some people believe you can use the existing foundation and build upon it a transformed, stable, and enduring structure. This is the fraught landscape of options upon which we find ourselves standing these days.

–Dana

179 Responses to “On Rioting: Two Different Voices, Two Different Perspectives”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. Watching the rioters and their cheerleaders try to convince people that the violence in Portland only started when ‘Trump’s Secret Police’ showed up is a hoot.

    They’d been rioting for weeks before feds came in to protect federal property because the local officials are letting the rioters do what they want.

    How any thinking person can think these riots and destruction somehow are going to help solve racism or promote better urban living conditions is a mystery to me. The media’s complicity in these riots is a disgrace.
    __

    harkin (5af287)

  3. When someone says ‘We don’t want police to handle or investigate crimes’ my mind immediately wonders, ‘Why?’.

    Capsaicin Addict (911fde)

  4. san angeles was aspirational, not a warning,

    narciso (7404b5)

  5. Interior secretary calls Confederate statue protesters ‘bad-doers,’ confirms feds are monitoring their social media feeds
    ……
    ……. (Interior Secretary David) Bernhardt,…..condemned protesters for “destroying everything that America holds dear,” describing them as “unified in the message of destruction.” He made no distinction between those who had legitimate concerns with Confederate iconography and those who vandalized statues or memorials that had no obvious connection to the history of American racism.
    …….
    “The bad-doers are great,” Bernhardt said at one point, speaking with obvious sarcasm. “They’re really great at posting their actions on Facebook or utilizing their camera. And that’s great in one way, but it’s not great for them when we come to get ’em.”

    Civil libertarians have long worried about law enforcement agencies monitoring social media……
    …….
    “We are at a point now where we’re rounding these people up,” Bernhardt continued, going on to describe how some protesters were supposedly turning themselves in ahead of being apprehended. The protesters, he claimed, “are actually beginning to just simply call and say, ‘Hey, I’m on my way,’ because they’re realizing that we’re not messing around.”
    …….
    “This goes to the very fabric of our historical soul,” Bernhardt told the host. He called the protests “an assault on our history, and on us.” He did not say who “us” referred to, or address the argument that images of Confederate generals like Robert E. Lee glorify slavery and make Black Americans feel like second-class citizens.
    …….
    There are, by one count, 233 memorials dedicated to the Confederacy at sites administered by the National Park Service, including at the famed battlefields of Gettysburg and Antietam. …..
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. Be mindful that if Trump loses, the voices of hate and division will only increase in number and volume. If you are white and have children or grandchildren, you’d better anticipate them being harangued and constant attempts to make them feel a sense of shame for their skin color.

    Having a guy sitting in the Oval Office who struggles to string two coherent sentences together and often forgets where he is will be among the least of your worries.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  7. The election of Joe Biden will make Antifa and their terrorist allies double down. Expect more riots, more acts like we saw in Louisville.

    The Democrats will do nothing but blame a couple dudes in Hawaiian shirts…

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  8. 7… set her adrift on a boogie board 30 miles out off of Lahaina, Maui.

    We’d soon determine if there’s anything a large Tiger Shark won’t eat, which in Hirono’s case, is very possible.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  9. [Ed. I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will: this does not excuse the bad behavior by some law enforcement officers or relieve of accountability those whose abusive acts have been captured on video.

    But in certain respects, isn’t it a binary choice: Get rid of the police, or
    don;t get rid of the police?

    What you should say is that we can, and we must, fine tune things a little bit better than that.

    But if it is binary choice, as the rioters would like it to be, you have to go with the police, even if you want to keep them, most of the time, far away from you. Bad police are better, in most circumstances, than no police.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  10. What Hirono said before leaving at the end of Cruz’s 10-minute speech:

    “Sometimes I don’t think you listen. So, how many times have I had to say that we all should be denouncing violent extremists of every stripe.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  11. Haiku and Hoi Polloi can’t wait….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. 11… the “conservative” guy who only finds Republicans dead and buried for decades worthy of praise champions Hirono.

    Shockah!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  13. Sadly, your hopes and dreams of an EPIC Victory Mince will be dashed, Rip Taylor.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  14. The Senate Should Ask Chad Wolf About His Illegal Appointment

    Tomorrow, on Aug. 6, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf will testify before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee regarding the deployment of federal officers to Portland, Oregon. While there are many critical questions to ask about the specter of federal officers occupying an American city, senators should not lose sight of an issue lurking in the background—the fact that Wolf’s tenure as acting secretary violates the law.

    The nightly clashes with protestors in Portland seem to have abated for the moment following the withdrawal of federal officers. But the fact that the clashes took place is all the more disturbing because officers were arguably taking orders from illegitimate superiors. Wolf’s tenure—and that of several of the other highest-ranking officials within DHS, such as Ken Cuccinelli, whose laughable title is “Senior Official Performing the Duties of the Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security and Senior Official Performing the Duties of the Director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services”—is not authorized by the federal statutes that govern the use of acting officials. Therefore Wolf’s service in an “acting” capacity violates the Constitution’s Appointments Clause, which requires that high-ranking government officials serve in their positions only with the approval of the Senate.
    …….
    …….The fact that Wolf’s tenure violates the law and the Constitution exposes many DHS actions to legal challenge. This includes the government’s conduct in Portland and—to point to another recent and high-profile example—DHS’s recent refusal to fully restore the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which is memorialized in a policy signed by Wolf. Indeed, recent lawsuits have raised such claims, and more are likely to follow. …….
    …….
    …….First, Wolf is not the Acting Secretary of Homeland Security under the DHS succession statute. Second, the (Federal Vacancies Reform Act) does not control the order of succession when the office of the Secretary is vacant; but even if it did, Wolf would not be the acting secretary because the applicable time limit has expired. Third, because Wolf is not the lawful acting secretary under either statute, his attempt to exercise the power of that office violates the Appointments Clause. And fourth, because Wolf is not the lawful acting secretary, many of his actions are null and void.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. @14-
    We’ll see.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. maybe someone can get her another 300 k sinecure in the chicago hospital system,

    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/08/05/michelle-obama-trump-administration-hypocrisy-giving-me-low-grade-depression/

    narciso (7404b5)

  17. Be charitable and give Hirono a wasabi-filled flotation device…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. @11: A riff on Arafat’s “We condemn all acts of violence.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (477d53)

  19. Hirono then packed up to leave the hearing before Cruz adjourned it.

    “Well I appreciate the, as always, kind of uplifting words of Senator Hirono,” Cruz said. “And I would also note that throughout her remarks she still did not say a negative word about Antifa nor has any Democrat here.”

    He urged her again to denounce the leftist extremist group. “You’re welcome to say something negative about Antifa right now,” Cruz said to his departing colleague.

    “I think that I’ve covered the subject quite well,” Hirono replied in barely audible remarks before exiting the room.

    “Okay, she declined to speak, so that is the position of the Democratic Party,” Cruz said.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. Last night BLM cori bush defeated congressman lacy-clay in missouri and plo supporter rashida tlaib won re-election in michigan the democratic left means business and democratic establishment knows it.

    asset (1fbe60)

  21. Moar Trashida Tilapia!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. The first part of the post is funny. ROFL funny. Poor widdle wevowutionawies pwotesting the powice state without knowing what a powice state does.

    nk (1d9030)

  23. ‘witnessing the inherent violence of the system’

    narciso (7404b5)

  24. I despise Hirono. But that doesn’t make every attack on her honest.

    Multiple times during the hearing, and despite being corrected, Cruz dishonestly tried to link the Democrats to two police murders committed by a right-wing extremist:

    In a telling moment, Cruz twice chastised his Democratic colleagues for praising peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters while failing to condemn “antifa” and the “terrorists” who killed a federal security officer, Dave Patrick Underwood, during a May protest in Oakland. Cruz’s implication was clear: The left killed Underwood.

    Yet Underwood was killed by a member of the far right — one of 329 murders carried out by right-wing extremists since 1994.

    In the same period, a grand total of zero murders have been attributed to antifa participants.

    The political affiliations of the man charged in Underwood’s murder have been public knowledge for nearly two months. The alleged killer, Air Force Sgt. Steve Carillo, who also killed another federal officer during the premeditated ambush, is an open adherent of the boogaloo movement, which is aimed at hastening a second civil war.

    Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., pointed out Cruz’s error after the Texas Republican’s first mention of Underwood, noting that the killer was on the far right. This did not stop Cruz raising the killing again later in the hearing, once again within the context of a blustering speech about antifa.

    Hirono may have felt that by letting Cruz goad her into condemning antifa by name, rather than (properly) condemning all violent extremists, she would have lent credibility to his dishonest narrative.

    Also, I don’t there are many senators from either party who will allow members of the other to dictate their words for them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  25. I don’t *think there are many …

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. Sorry Dave, but Bugaloos aren’t necessarily a right-wing group, if you can even call them a group. But thanks for proving my point – Antifa is never to blame for anything. All the violence, in Democrats view, is caused by a dude wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  27. I despise Hirono. But that doesn’t make every attack on her honest.

    Same for attacks in Cruz.

    The Boogaloos are anti-police —like Antifa and like Democrats. They showed up in Portland in support of the protests.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/07/27/895955738/patriot-movement-conspicuously-absent-from-portland-s-federal-overreach-protests

    Condemning “all violent extremists” and refusing to condemn specific extremists by name is a ploy borrowed from Hezbollah and the PLO.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6c41e0)

  28. *on Cruz

    beer ‘n pretzels (6c41e0)

  29. She wouldn’t condemn antifa. Dave, why can’t you admit that?

    Are you seriously going to expect all the violence and death that has happened since antifa and BLM started, they’ve killed zero people or will you just claim that as an “unorganized group” those who say they are a part of it aren’t a part of it?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  30. Durbin who along with duckworth was the contact with the alexandria slayer

    Narciso (7404b5)

  31. https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/dayton-shooter-may-be-antifas-first-mass-killer/

    Like this guy for instance way back to last year before the terrorist left’s current mass violence.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  32. “The Boogaloos are anti-police —like Antifa and like Democrats. They showed up in Portland in support of the protests.”

    They showed up in Portland to incite a race war, which is their reason for existence.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  33. She wouldn’t condemn antifa. Dave, why can’t you admit that?

    She wouldn’t condemn Antifa when Cruz told her to. That bolded part is important. From at least two perspectives, but I’ll only mention one: I, personally, would not take orders from Ted Cruz if he held a gun on me.

    nk (1d9030)

  34. All the cops murdered over the past few months and deny antifa and BLM are the cause of it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  35. That’s nice nk. Your emotions are your own. Sad to see you go this route.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  36. Gun violence and murders have skyrocketed in leftist cities. Deny BLM and antifa have been the cause of any of it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  37. They are in league with the terrorists, just like she was one of the defamers against kavanaugh yet he learned no lesson from this

    Narciso (7404b5)

  38. https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/

    This is the kind of garbage the intercept posts. They claim all the radical left’s acts are really innocent responses to the “far right’s” evil. Such wholesome individuals that riot, burn buildings, beat people brutally, tear them from their vehicles, destroy their property and yes… in spite of the intercept’s lies… murder them.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  39. I’m done. Carry on with the 2 minutes of hate for Trump and Cruz while ignoring the path the left wants to take our nation down. Good night.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  40. Integrity and credibility matter to both friend and foe alike. Ted lost his with friend and foe alike. Why should Hirono help him carry Trump’s water? For that matter, what obligation does Hirono have to you, that you have a right to be offended when she does not do what you want?

    nk (1d9030)

  41. Oinkers & Pigs- 1968.
    Defund the police- 2020.

    What goes around comes around; it’s a ‘law & order & race’ election. A Nixon/Wallace redux. Though Plagiarist JoeyBee is less a Hubert Humphrey and more a George McGovern– you know how it went w/his first VP choice. See Tom Eagleton for details.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. I don’t believe Nixon showed up at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968, DCSCA. I’m sure I would have seen him if he had.

    nk (1d9030)

  43. Mayor Ted Wheeler
    @tedwheeler
    ·
    As your Police Commissioner, I am committed to working with @PortlandPolice, city partners, and the community to craft a community-based solution that will save lives. The Police Bureau, the Office of Violence Prevention, and most importantly our community…
    __ _

    Mayor Ted Wheeler
    @tedwheeler

    July brought increased gun violence to Portland – the worst our community has seen in at least 30 years. Families have experienced unimaginable loss, as others continue to live in fear. As your Mayor, I’m concerned for the health, safety and welfare of everyone in our community.
    __ _

    Andy Ngô
    @MrAndyNgo
    ·
    You abolished the Gun Violence Reduction Team in June.
    __ _

    nathan hickey
    @nathanhickey10
    ·
    Lawlessness, anti police and anti authority was promoted and encouraged. Violence followed. Gee, what a surprise.
    __ _

    Kate Wolf Llama
    @KateWol90087731
    ·
    After watching you being interviewed in the middle of tear gas, saying you “honestly” don’t see why they used it on the protesters, when you had just watched the RIOTERS set fires, throw firecrackers, and hard objects at the police, nothing you say can ever be trusted. Resign.

    _

    harkin (5af287)

  44. @43. He might have heard you: The Big Dick was there— on the phone: Pat Buchanan was in Chicago and held up the receiver to the window so he could hear the chaos.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. How Nixon Used the ‘68 Riots to Flip Illinois | Chicago …

    http://www.chicagomag.com/…/Chicago-Riots-1968-DNC-Nixon-Trump

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. @43. People are pissed, nk. It’s anecdotal but I’ve had to deal w/some hard working middle class ‘whities’ lately- car mechanics and contstruction types- and they’re tired of wearing masks, irritated by rules and regs, loyal Fox viewers — TVs on in their establishments and surprisingly vocal about what they were seeing on their TeeVees… angry black folks demanding reparations while burning down businesses and they have to shutter their businesses because of the bug. One white woman said to me, as Greg Gutfeld was blabbering on the box behind the counter, ‘my life matters too!’– as I paid my bill. [I wanted my car back. LOL] This is the ‘Silent Majority’ stirring.

    I expect Trump will win again– because of pissed off people like that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. Nixon was too trusting in fact, he thought that putting garment and moynihan and going for minimum income and epa he would win over the liberals, but they never forgave him for ending alger hiss’s career.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  48. Had lou conein been in charge, they would have gotten away with it. He turned them down. Had conein let the caid kill ellsberg there would have been no pentagon papers leak.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  49. I agree, DCSCA @43. I’m feeling it too. And I would add the “all we’re asking you to do is sit on your couches for two weeeks” bullsh!t when this started to your list.

    (Not to mention the gaslighting about the masks. I was wearing my house-cleaning and project masks that I had lying around the house and feeling guilty about it.)

    And I’m pretty sure that Trump is counting heavily on the backlash as well.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. @50. And he is fanning it; and the media is unwittingly helping him, too- by putting angry black men and women talking heads on the TeeVees while B-roll of riots plays behind them and while all but daring JoeyBee to NOT pick a black woman as his running mate.

    There is actually a ‘Trump For President’ stand selling hats, T-shirts and flags some dude set up next to our local post office and it is doing brisk business–and the truckers- the 18-wheelers going by– honk at the guy in support. Yes, it’s anecdotal– but a reality. Not seeing this sort of thing springing for Plagiarist JoeyBee. The people in the establishments I was at were the most surprising to me– vocal, clearly pissed and you could almost smell that ‘backlash’ at the ready.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. Where is this, DCSCA?

    norcal (a5428a)

  52. @52. Near San Diego.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. Makes sense. San Diego is more Republican than L.A.

    norcal (a5428a)

  54. I like Biden, actually like him, when he’s taken his daily dose of Phucumol (NSFW). He impressed me when he said “If you believe Tara Reade then you probably shouldn’t vote for him”. Likewise, when he put down the reporter who asked him if he’ll take a cognitive test. I wish he had taken it before he promised a woman VP.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. @54. I know. Lived in LA for more than a decade. You won’t see this sort of thing in a major urban setting like NYC or LA but it is clearly out there. The surprise is last time they were more ‘closeted’ Trumpster. This time around they’re more open and vocal– and angry.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. @55. I don’t. He betrayed the middle class w/his backing of banking legislation for him Delaware CC buddies. And Plagiarism is unforgivable and a blatant character tell. But those two items aside, the physical and mental caliber Biden of 2020 has dropped from the JoeyBee of 2012, 2008 and certainly 1988. Hee’s hd those brain surgeries and he’s too old– or certainly acts too old w/t gaffes and so on. If s afraid of Trump- Jinping and Putin will eat his lunch.

    He won’t survive one term in a tough job like CIC.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. Cruz/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  58. He betrayed the middle class w/his backing of banking legislation for him Delaware CC buddies.

    Reaganomics!

    Does that mean Trump is Biden?

    DCSCA, how would you feel about Cuomo replacing Biden?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  59. san angeles was aspirational, not a warning,

    See you at Taco Bell.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. How is the statement that videos of violent rioters should be withheld morally different from saying that videos of police shootings should be withheld?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. how would you feel about Cuomo replacing Biden?

    Cuomo could only beat Trump if the press actively lies to support him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. Looks like antifa isn’t liking the publicity lately.

    That’s all you really need to know about them…

    whembly (c30c83)

  63. Gun violence and murders have skyrocketed in leftist cities.

    This is another one of Trump’s lies, endlessly parroted by his followers. It’s simply not true.

    The violent crime rate for the most recent year where complete data is available (2018) is near record lows for the last twenty years.

    Violent crime rates per 100,000:

    1999: 523.0
    2004: 463.2
    2009: 431.9
    2014: 361.6
    2018: 368.9

    Murder rates per 100,000 have been more stable over time, and have gone up about 15% since the low in 2014. But they are still lower than 15 or 20 years ago.

    1999: 5.7
    2004: 5.5
    2009: 5.0
    2014: 4.4
    2018: 5.0

    Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting statistics

    Law enforcement officer felonious killings in the line of duty show no trend of increase either, since 2009:

    2009: 48
    2010: 55
    2011: 72
    2012: 49
    2013: 27
    2014: 51
    2015: 41
    2016: 66
    2017: 46
    2018: 55

    Source: FBI

    Recessions and economic hardships tend to increase crime, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see an uptick in 2020.

    Dave (1bb933)

  64. Thats what theyve doing with carrion cuomo., so whats different.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  65. Enough is enough, now? Enough should have been enough after the first f(ornicating) day of that stupid [insert slang term for feces here]!

    When your petulant four year old is going around smashing things in the living room because you gave him Rice Chex instead of Cocoa Puffs, do you let him continue to smash things, or do you spank his ass and stop him, and tell him there will be no Cocoa Puffs for breakfast for a month?

    Well, the Portland brats have gone cookoo for Cocoa Puffs, because nobody ever spanked their sorry asses when they were growing up, and 2020 is the result.

    The Dana in Kentucky (9b0a37)

  66. OT: This is remarkable…
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/russiagate-probe-neither-trump-nor-his-campaign-ever-got-a-defensive-briefing/

    The evolution of Andy McCarthy is something to behold. I know some of you think he’s a hack… I disagree. He’s a consummate professional who’s willing to review his previous stance and admit he was wrong.

    He went from someone who defended the Obama DOJ/FBI actions in 2016, believing that there HAD to be some compelling there there vis-a-vis Trump and Russia. This was largely because he himself worked/headed the SDNY and gave them every possible benefit of doubt…

    …to finally realized that the Obama administration and Obama-era officials literally conducted a Watergate-level scandal in an attempt to delegitimize an incoming Trump administration.

    whembly (c30c83)

  67. @62

    how would you feel about Cuomo replacing Biden?

    Cuomo could only beat Trump if the press actively lies to support him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/5/2020 @ 11:29 pm

    Cuomo would definitely fare better against Trump than Biden.

    However, he does NOTHING for independents and Obama-voters-turned-Trump-voters.

    I’d see a Cuomo vs Trump election very similar to 2016.

    whembly (c30c83)

  68. He trusted his good friend fitz back in the plame matter, and he bought this bunch of bunkum. That the coin dealer brought steele, they dont seem to do any effective for this country, i could give you a long list of missed calls.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  69. @64, Dave, thank you for looking that up and summarizing.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  70. A couple thoughts on plagiarism. First, in school, plagiarism is a high offense because it cheats the process of fairly evaluating one’s abilities and thus the plagiarist unfairly gains status through an unearned grade. In journalism, it is a high offense because people get paid for those ideas and so using those ideas unattributed, the plagiarist also unfairly gains status. There is a clear ethical code that governs journalism.

    Biden’s political plagiarism falls into two categories: policy and biography. The policy part of it is less troubling…in my eyes….because most advocacy groups want their policy prescriptions adopted and promoted by national candidates….and there is a much lower bar for attribution. Still, word-for-word lifting shows laziness and a lack of attention to detail by…if not the candidate….for sure the staff. And it’s risky given opposition research…and the ability to track such stuff easily any more.

    Now Biden’s bigger problem is his biographical plagiarism….which is bizarre…but in line with a politician trying to craft a certain image of himself (like Trump as a self-made man). Back in the day, Biden borrowed some key biographical points from Neal Kinnock to make himself seem more “blue collarish”….and got caught. He immediately became inauthentic…..what else was he making up? Over the years, he has told some whoppers and made incorrect statements, and keeps getting elected. The question is though is this a somewhat expected part of politics….whereas it is an excommunicable part of academia or journalism? Aren’t most policy claims of politicians….from walls….to trade deals….to deficit reduction goals….largely BS…or at least highly contestable…..and that the political process has to sort it out?

    I’m no fan of Biden….he remains an unimpressive politician who is a poor candidate for President….but the innate problem of being ignorant of facts and unfairly pumping himself up…is one that Trump shares….with Trump running slightly ahead on a record of treating people badly. I just don’t see plagiarism as any more significant of a character flaw than the one’s demonstrated by Trump on a daily basis. Neither earns my vote….

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  71. Biden has been wrong on every major issue for 40 years, he is barely functioning as a human being, he is ceding more authority to the left, knock yourself out.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  72. Biden says he supports additional funding for the police

    Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden said Wednesday that he wants to “get police more money” to handle the “god-awful problems” they face in the line of duty.

    Biden addressed calls to defund the police while speaking at a virtual fundraiser hosted by Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms (D).

    “I don’t want to defund police,” Biden said. “I want to get police more money in order to deal with the things they badly need, from making sure they have access to community policing, that they have also in the departments social workers, psychologists, people who in fact can handle those god-awful problems that a cop has to have four degrees to handle.”

    Prediction: Trump and his cultists will continue to falsely claim Biden wants to defund the police.

    Dave (1bb933)

  73. wrong on the nuclear freeze, wrong on the pipeline, wrong on fracking, wrong on the sandinistas, wrong on vawa, wrong on fisa, wrong on missile defense, he may have been right about the gulf war, for the wrong reasons, he wanted us shut in for the avian flu, he was a terrible steward of the stimulus program,

    narciso (7404b5)

  74. In his testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Kyle Shideler, Director and Senior Analyst for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism for the Center for Security Policy, said that antifa is an anarcho-communist movement that uses physical violence and intimidation to keep American citizens from engaging in the political process.

    narciso (7404b5)

  75. 51, I think around 2007 or so, California blacks were on the cusp of honorary whiteness…they had the sympathy of many conservative whites because of the greenlighting and general displacement by the hispanucs, but they’ve been slowly then quickly p’ing it away. Now it’s down to this (exacerbated by the hotel industry’s desperation for bookings, as in the Mag Mile and downtown Chicago):

    http://ktla.com/news/local-news/large-brawl-erupts-at-anaheim-hotel/

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  76. All the cops murdered over the past few months and deny antifa and BLM are the cause of it.

    Which cops have been murdered over the past few months by Antifa and BLM? Show your work.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  77. Well you shut the whole country down, it doesnt mean the virus wont reappear, it means you have no immunity when you do pop out.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  78. One blinded in Chicago at a “Colon – oscopy”, a retired cop moonlighting as security in north St. Louis killed guarding a pawn shop during, please add as needed

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  79. You wouldnt know the truth if it smacked yoi in the face

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1291044659293192192

    Narciso (7404b5)

  80. They should used a form of UBI maybe a GDB (guaranteed death benefit to surviving kin) to succor and sucker people into braving the wind.

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  81. You wouldnt know the truth if it smacked yoi in the face

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1291044659293192192

    Narciso (7404b5) — 8/6/2020 @ 7:35 am

    If Judge Sullivan recuses himself doesn’t that mean a lengthy delay as a new Judge will need to be appointed, have this case worked into their schedule, and familiarize themselves with the relevant information?

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  82. If you are a da in the city of los angeles, you cannot defend your family against a rampaging mob, what hope do mere citizens have, cutting to the quick

    Narciso (7404b5)

  83. This has been at least a 50 year project crom the sds to the weatherunderground to the may 19th and black liberation army, the two wings of the hawk.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  84. You might have brought out el chacal with that one, Nars.

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  85. That part has been direct action, the propanda creating ‘the sea’ from whence the revolution rises, that has been edycation media and human resources.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  86. He urged her again to denounce the leftist extremist group. “You’re welcome to say something negative about Antifa right now,” Cruz said to his departing colleague.

    Well, ther Democrats are saying that it is myth that any central organization named Antifa has anything to do wth violent protests and destruction.

    And they may be right. (and that’s why they are saying it.)

    We don’t really know the “Order of Battle” of the protesters.

    People shouldn’t really act like they understand how this was organized, and by whom or what.

    The FBI (?) or somebody needs to do more spying. An not target the small fry.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  87. Prediction: Trump and his cultists will continue to falsely claim Biden wants to defund the police.

    Prediction: Biden and his cultists will continue to dismiss what police themselves are saying, and will ignore the “defund the police” yahoos that he will surround himself with.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/04/police-groups-joe-biden-300222

    “Clearly, he’s made a lot of changes the way candidates do during the primary process, but he kept moving left and fell off the deep end,” said Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, the umbrella organization for Police Benevolent Association chapters.

    “For Joe Biden, police are shaking their heads because he used to be a stand-up guy who backed law enforcement,” Johnson said. “But it seems in his old age, for whatever reason, he’s writing a sad final chapter when it comes to supporting law enforcement.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (334591)

  88. Yes its a typo, sue me, dont say because its just a few fidels cadre was maybe a dozen men, at the start, no matter matthews thought different.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  89. 81. Blinded is bad, but NJRob set the bar at murder.
    David Dorn was murdered by Stephan Cannon, a black guy with a criminal record. There’s no indication that he was a protester or BLM. He’s a violent thug who should spend the rest of his sorry life in a concrete box.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  90. @59. He’s younger.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. TheBlaze
    @theblaze

    Protesters sue Seattle, claiming they need ‘expensive’ protective gear to demonstrate safely

    https://www.theblaze.com/amp/protesters-sue-seattle-protective-gear-2646888650?__twitter_impression=true
    __ _

    Ted Cruz
    @tedcruz
    ·
    I’ve got free gear for the rioters: anyone committing acts of violence should be given a taxpayer-provided orange jumpsuit, and public accommodations.
    __ _

    Mat Richards
    @mediocremat
    ·
    If you’re in a position to sue your government to make them fund your “protest,” then you’re probably not as oppressed as you think you are.

    _

    harkin (5af287)

  92. @90
    Biden’s statement from the quoted article.

    “Most cops meet the highest standards of their profession. All the more reason that bad cops should be dealt with severely and swiftly,” Biden said. “We all need to take a hard look at the culture that allows for these senseless tragedies to keep happening.”

    Most of the criticim seems to be not that he’s attacking the police but that he’s not more supportive.

    Jenkins said some police don’t like Trump but said the Obama-Biden administration wasn’t pro-police enough.

    Not anti-police, just not pro-police enough.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  93. @92 Yup, that’s attempted murder.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  94. ETA, If it’s what it looks like i hope he gets a nice long prison sentence to think about why that’s wrong.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  95. @71. Biden’s political plagiarism falls into two categories: policy and biography.

    No. It falls ino on category: THEFT.

    Plagiarism is stealing the work product of another or others. Plagiarism is a blatant character flaw. And plagiarism is intellectually lazy. Generating any rationale or excuse for it is raises questions to the character and the motivations of the person, persons or organizations who do so–which includes members of the press.

    One more thought on plagiarism; it forced Plagiarist JoeyBee to quit his 1988 presidential campaign.

    And deservedly so.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  96. I agree, b’np, attempted murder, but NJRob set the bar at murder.
    Interesting thing. Mr. Trapp was busted through the work of a paid CI.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  97. Trap music, Trapp people, same ish.

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  98. Paul, I don’t think your distinction in 100 is a very compelling one.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  99. There was a Chinese woman in her late 80s whose clothes were set on fire in the Bensonhurst area of Brooklyn the night of Tuesday July 14. (she managed to avoid injury to her body)

    https://abc7ny.com/woman-set-on-fire-elderly-attack-89-year-old-attacked-bensonhurst-crime/6333749

    There was some kind of a rally between 3:30 pm and 4:30 pm on Saturday August 1 that I think was about this. I heard some of this, faintly.

    There were speakers and they had them half shout and repeat:

    no more silence. We must fight.”

    I think this may be the same thing: (or maybe that was a satellite rally I heard, or a separately oranized one. I think there were probably less than 20 people who shouted – in cars)

    This is the one near the police precinct:

    https://asamnews.com/2020/08/02/asian-americans-rally-to-protest-hate-crimes-in-bensonhurst-neighborhood

    Anyway, they talked about that elderly Chinese woman whose clothes were set on fire. A speaker said it wasn’t by somebody white. And if that is not hate crime he doesn’t know what the f. hate would be.

    Quotes:

    “You don’t fight racism with racism”

    Something about Black Lives Matter.

    I also heard of two attacks against Jews in Kensington. One was against a disabled person near a facility for them, and another was on somebody wearing a yarmulka who got off a train. And then there was the person sucker punched (the puncher immediately ran away) in Midwood (sometimes called Flatbush) on E. 12 St between Avenues J and K.

    Some other attacks made headlines.

    I don’t think any of this actually is hate. I think it’s more cynical.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  100. “I’m not Reagan” didn’t work for Mondale.
    “I’m not Trump” won’t work for Plagiarist JoeyBee.

    Ferraro didn’t help Walter; a black, brown or off-white woman won’t help Plagiarist JoeyBee either.
    But watching him do his ‘McCain-Palin-Hail-Mary’ toss from a Delaware basement will be… yes: entertaining.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/6/2020 @ 8:19 am

    . And plagiarism is intellectually lazy.

    Samuel Johnson thought, or said, writing your own stuff was easier. At least for him.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  102. This is like when Christ admonished those folks who complained about a sliver in a fella’s eye while carrying logs in their own eyes.
    Yes, Biden was busted for plagiarizing at least two or three times, which is a bad thing. But Trump cheats all the time, including cheating on elections, cheating on taxes, cheating with Trump University, cheating by his foundation, cheating vendors, cheating two or three wives, cheating at golf, cheating the truth with his thousands of lies, etc.
    One standard, applied to all.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  103. If you are a da in the city of los angeles, you cannot defend your family against a rampaging mob, what hope do mere citizens have, cutting to the quick

    Orange Man Bad (to teh bone)

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. 81. Blinded is bad, but NJRob set the bar at murder

    If it’s an ambulance you got a chance, if it’s in a hearse, it’s gotta be worse!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. No hawaiian shirt fits, you must acquit.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  106. 104. DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/6/2020 @ 8:28 am

    “I’m not Reagan” didn’t work for Mondale.

    Well, that’s not what he sad. He said he would raise taxes. He said Reagam would too, but he, Mondale was honest about.

    Reagan did not raise taxes. He lowered them in 1986.

    Mondale also came out in favor of more homework.

    “I’m not Trump” won’t work for Plagiarist JoeyBee.

    Ferraro didn’t help Walter; a black, brown or off-white woman won’t help Plagiarist JoeyBee either.But watching him do his ‘McCain-Palin-Hail-Mary’ toss from a Delaware basement will be… yes: entertaining.

    It’s like this, maybe:

    John McCain:Joe Lieberman::Joe Biden:Susan Rice (the choice he really wants, but is politically advised against. In the case of John McCain, there was a risk the Republican convention wouldn’t go along. This is not a worry for Joe Biden but attacks on her are.)

    John McCain:Sarah Palin::Joe Biden:Keisha Lance Bottoms (one of the few alternatives available, since he was limited to his short list, and discounted by insiders.)

    Joe Biden’s campaign has said they don’t want the vice-presidential nominee to overshadow him so they don’t want the name announced too close to his acceptance speech. That would point to Susan Rice, who also did not make herself available for interviews, unlike Tammy Duckworth and Karen Bass.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  107. The difference is palin believed in america, she had this naive faith that the country was worth fighting for, mccain never seemed to realize this, or he would have put up more of a contest.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  108. Re: Andrew Cuomo: He is intellectually dishonest and also probably could not survive scrutiny, and that;s why he doesn’t even think of running for president.

    zOne person told me he knows someone who was fired because he wanted to report some kind of wrongdoing at some agency.

    Now, for a Democrat, an intellectually dishonest person is better. He at least partially avoids doing the wrong thing even if he seems to endorse it.

    Joe Biden has that quality, too. He has to be pulled left and avoids getting pulled all the way.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  109. She trusted those in power, and she allowed her son to go the hellholes of salahuddin and later helmand province, we had no intention to win nor understanding what the end game was.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  110. Dave, your numbers prove I’m right since we’ve seen the increase first hand. Just a few examples:

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/10/police-officers-shot-riots-george-floyd/

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/02/there-have-now-been-more-nyc-shootings-this-year-than-in-all-of-2019/

    There are plenty of others, but I notice you only look for old or leftist posts that don’t give current information.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  111. @104
    “I am Trump!” Isn’t good either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. @106. Catch him if you can. Better people than the scoundrels in the ideological conservative movement have tried. The Scranton, PA [or is it Wilmington, DE this week] JoeyBee OTOH has been caught repeatedly– and it forced him to quit his 1988 presidential campaign. This, BTW, is his third try at a run.

    Again, plagiarism is stealing the work product of another or others. Thee is no expiration date for plagiarism. Nor any excuse for it. Plagiarism is a blatant character flaw. And plagiarism is just intellectually lazy. Generating any rationale or excuse for plagiarism raises questions to the character and the motivations of the person, persons or organizations who do so– which includes members of the press.

    So chase the quicksilvered, Queens, New York-born-Trump. Go ahead– “catch him if you can.”

    “You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?.. it’s ’cause the other teams can’t stop staring at those damn pinstripes.” – Frank Abagnale Sr. [Christopher Walken] ‘Catch Me If You Can’ 2002

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. How many little kids have been murdered due to this wave of violence?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  114. I’ve posted enough cops being executed on threads before. Go look at them if you want Paul. I don’t bother reposting information you won’t look at.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  115. Paul, I don’t think your distinction in 100 is a very compelling one.

    It’s not my distinction, Time. These are NJRob’s words:

    All the cops murdered over the past few months and deny antifa and BLM are the cause of it.

    Which begs the question: Which cops were murdered by Antifa and BLM over the past few months? A person should back up his/her assertions, no?
    There was the murder of a cop in Bothell, WA by a black guy who showed his BLM sympathies in social media, but there is no evidence he was a protester or activist; rather, he has a long and violent criminal history. And even though Officer Shoop was actually killed by his training officer in the crossfire, Mr. Washington is still guilty of murder, IMO.
    Half the buildings in Seattle have BLM paraphernalia on their windows. If any one of those occupants shoots and kills a cop, doesn’t mean a BLMer committed murder. I’m guessing that a lot businesses put up the posters mainly for capitalist reasons.
    Also, I’m not saying that BLMers aren’t violent against persons and property at times, and same goes for Antifa and their idiot Nazi-punching tactics. Far as I’m concerned, any “protester” who hurts other people and damages property needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and it’s why the Portland police chief is failing, IMO. The violence there is concentrated in certain parts of the city at certain times of day by certain elements. It shouldn’t take that much extra work to get the rioters into the criminal justice system. I’m just asking for a specific answer to a specific statement.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  116. The on;y reason New York’s Mayor Bill de Blasio escaped indictment for corruption is that when people who want something gave money to him or some fundraising vehicle he started it’s not like a turnstyle – you put a token in the slot and you enter the subway (25 years ago anyway) – but it is like a slot machone – you put money in and you don’t get anything back.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-de-blasio-grand-central-federal-investigation-20200720-n6we22nvqrhdrgms4tw3ghngx4-story.html

    Like a slot machine’: De Blasio took money but only pretended to help donors, source says

    ….The dinner was part of a pattern in which de Blasio officials solicited donations to his nonprofit Campaign for One New York from people with business before the city, the source said. De Blasio then made inquiries to relevant city agencies on behalf of those donors, prosecutors explained in 2017 when announcing they would not bring charges against Hizzoner.

    De Blasio used the Campaign for One New York to advance his political agenda, including his signature policy of universal pre-K. He shut the nonprofit down in 2016.

    A key element of the fund-raising pattern investigated by prosecutors, the source said, was that de Blasio would deliver a donor’s concerns to the relevant city agency knowing that the donor was not going to get what he or she wanted.

    “He played the system. He was accepting money from individuals with business before the city with no intention of helping them. He’s like a slot machine that just takes your money,” the source familiar with the investigation said.

    By the way, the city’s health commissoner resigned the other day. She didn’t like the way the Health department was bypassed in de Blasio’s contact tracing system (which has not worked very well) and now maybe there was something else – his school reopening plan?

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  117. 113. Narciso (7404b5) — 8/6/2020 @ 8:44 am

    She trusted those in power, and she allowed her son to go the hellholes of salahuddin and later helmand province, we had no intention to win nor understanding what the end game was.

    McCain didn’t understand his own health care plan and he allowed Obama to mislead people about it during a debate. and then, of course, there was the financial crisis, which he also didn’t understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  118. I heard this: If you are a da the mayor in the city of Los Angeles, you might get someone’s electricity turned off, ofr so he threatens, if they hold a party in their own house.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angeles-shut-off-water-power-houses-hosting-large-parties-gatherings

    os Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said on Wednesday that he is authorizing the city to shut off utility service to properties where large parties and gatherings are held, CBS Los Angeles reports. Garcetti said that, starting Friday, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power will cut off water and power service in “egregious” cases where unpermitted large parties and gatherings take place.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  119. In response to Narciso 111 and 113, I start to wonder if the much ballyhooed and sought-after “Obama to Trump” voter pool is really largely military-adjacent family members who made a pragmatic, though objectionable, choice to who was more likely to bring their loved ones home back in 2008?

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  120. After 19 years what was the end game, thats been the average term of american expeditionary forces (haiti, dominican republic, phillipines)

    Narciso (7404b5)

  121. There are plenty of others, but I notice you only look for old or leftist posts that don’t give current information.

    Just like a True Conservative™ ought to do, because the way to enact True Conservatism™ is to elect the most left-wing slate of Democrats that party has ever run.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. “I’ve posted enough cops being executed on threads before. Go look at them if you want Paul. I don’t bother reposting information you won’t look at.”

    Here’s one you never posted. I wonder why.

    An Arkansas police officer who told a colleague he would “shoot through the door” any protesters who came to his home has been charged with killing a fellow officer who knocked on his door last month, court records show.

    https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/cop-who-threatened-kill-protesters-shoots-kills-colleague-who-knocked-door-affidavit-says/BMAXC27P7FA7LMIAXFQUJAHZJE/

    Was the cop BLM or Antifa?

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  123. He was following the biden shotgun protocol.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  124. Here’s one you never posted. I wonder why.

    Because it has nothing to do with BLM or Antifa murdering cops, Davethulhu, and I asked a specific question to a specific statement. I don’t read all your comments and I’m not going to look them up. If you have something to say, then just say it.
    The death of Office Hutton is a tragic story, but your link is about an idiot white cop who made a fatally bad decision.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  125. “Because it has nothing to do with BLM or Antifa murdering cops, Davethulhu, and I asked a specific question to a specific statement. ”

    Don’t be so self-defensive Paul, I was posting that at NJRob, not you.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  126. I supported Ted Cruz and I liked him, too. I still like him even though I can no longer support him, but this is Cruz at his worst.

    I get that he is trying to make a point. It is an important point about the Democrats and the violent groups they support. But he doesn’t have to be a belligerent bully when he does it, especially if he is trying to win through patient, intelligent questions. Cruz wants to show the GOP he can fight like Trump and with intelligence, but those things don’t go together.

    DRJ (aede82)

  127. You’re right, Dave. Sorry. I didn’t see NJRob’s remark. I thought you were talking to me and glossed over the quote marks.

    “I’ve posted enough cops being executed on threads before. Go look at them if you want Paul. I don’t bother reposting information you won’t look at.”

    Yes, you’ve posted prior comments about violence against cops, such as the one Davethulhu linked, but you made a specific statement, so your evasion/avoidance of my question is noted.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  128. But get some Hoosiers wearing Oakleys calling him a liar, and he wet his drawers.

    Speaking of Hoosier intramural (and why NWI should be state 54 or so): http://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/pence-john-roberts-disappointment-to-conservatives-392202

    urbanleftbehind (d07d9c)

  129. What I specifically said was “all the cops murdered over the past few months and deny antifa and BLM are the cause of it.”

    Are you denying that many of these cops wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for all the violence that has escalated thanks to antifa and BLM? Or are their murderers acceptable because it’s spilled milk in the cause of leftist activism. After all, we see how angry leftists get when you say Blue Lives Matter.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  130. “Anyone remember this racist, cop killer?”

    So, is he Antifa or BLM?

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  131. Rob, Their murders are not acceptable and the people the committed them should be brought to justice. But there’s a difference between criminals who riot and kill, and protesters who exercise their rights.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  132. Are you denying that many of these cops wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for all the violence that has escalated thanks to antifa and BLM?

    I’m asking you to back up your comment. Don’t evade the question by trying to turn this around on me.
    If Officer Salyers blames Antifa and BLM for his shooting a fellow officer, how do you think that’ll hold up in court? Doesn’t Salyers bear personal responsibility for his stupid choice?

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  133. Anyone remember this racist, cop killer?

    I do. It happened five years ago, so it wasn’t recent, and Mr. Johnson expressly stated that he was not affiliated with any groups before a SWAT team blew him up. He did it alone. He was literally angry at BLM, for reasons not stated. His Facebook page did link to “black separatist hate groups”.
    Rob, you’re still avoiding/evading the question by pulling one diversion after another.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  134. @139: The dumb a$$ Salyers shooting is a dumb a$$ dishonest example, unless you want to argue he intended to kill a fellow cop because he wanted to target cops.

    NJRob: Years ago, when cops in Dallas, Brooklyn and Baton Rouge were murdered in the wake of BLM protests (when Obama was president, BTW), by BLM sympathizers, you couldn’t get anyone to blame BLM — so why try now?

    beer ‘n pretzels (5b11f9)

  135. “Years ago, when cops in Dallas, Brooklyn and Baton Rouge were murdered in the wake of BLM protests (when Obama was president, BTW), by BLM sympathizers, you couldn’t get anyone to blame BLM”

    Facts not in evidence.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  136. There are plenty of others, but I notice you only look for old or leftist posts that don’t give current information.

    LOL.

    The numbers I posted are the most recent available from the Trump administration’s FBI website.

    Dave (1bb933)

  137. Facts not in evidence.

    LOL. Actually, you’re right Davethulhu. “Sympathizers” is way too light. Let me change that to “adherents”.

    The way this game gets played, the actions of a Minneapolis cop colors all police nationally, a “defund the police” movement, far flung violent protests in Portland, Seattle, DC, etc., — while the actions of multiple BLM adherents implicates them alone, and multinationals ramp up their BLM shakedown funding.

    beer ‘n pretzels (8cd54c)

  138. The way this game gets played, the actions of a Minneapolis cop colors all police nationally

    This is a mis-characterization. The death of George Floyd was the rallying point, but the issue of use of force and police tactics wrt to people of color has been a nationwide issue for some time. There are plenty of examples from across the country.

    Additionally, it’s been pretty clear that part of the reason it’s viewed as a systemic problem, and not a problem isolated to a few bad individuals, is the failure within departments of the good cops to hold the others accountable.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  139. “LOL. Actually, you’re right Davethulhu. “Sympathizers” is way too light. Let me change that to “adherents”.”

    You’re making an assertion here. Back it up. I’ll even start off for your first “example”, the Dallas police shooter.

    During the standoff, Mr. Johnson, who was black, told police negotiators that “he was upset about Black Lives Matter,” Chief Brown said. “He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html

    This does not seem like an adherent or supporter of BLM.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  140. Dave,
    ABC News has more recent information from the FBI on police fatalities during felonious incidents, through July 14th, and there has been an uptick in 2020. It could have happened, that Antifa/BLM caused police fatalities, or there could be other reasons. There are no additional facts, so any conclusion would be speculative.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  141. @146: Mr. Johnson sounds exactly like a BLM adherent — extreme, but within the spectrum.. What to you would characterize a BLM adherent? What would that spectrum look like?

    Be consistent. Meaning, take into account how KKK adherents, neo-confederates, David Duke snd garden variety racists are routinely included in the spectrum of Trump supporters.

    beer ‘n pretzels (00b6c2)

  142. “Mr. Johnson sounds exactly like a BLM adherent — extreme, but within the spectrum.. What to you would characterize a BLM adherent? What would that spectrum look like?

    Be consistent. Meaning, take into account how KKK adherents, neo-confederates, David Duke snd garden variety racists are routinely included in the spectrum of Trump supporters.”

    If you think that the BLM position is to “kill white people, especially white officers”, then you’re way too deep in your bubble for reasonable discussion.

    KKK adherents, neo-confederates, and David Duke are all open Trump supporters, so I don’t know what you’re going on about here.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  143. If you think that the BLM position is to “kill white people, especially white officers”, then you’re way too deep in your bubble for reasonable discussion.

    https://youtu.be/kQrnEdjQWKI

    beer ‘n pretzels (2fdfa0)

  144. Mr. Johnson sounds exactly like a BLM adherent — extreme, but within the spectrum.. What to you would characterize a BLM adherent?

    Was Mr. Johnson lying when he said during a police standoff that he was angry at BLM and wasn’t affiliated with them? Your assertion that he’s an “adherent” seems based solely on your own preconceptions, not on anything he actually said.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  145. “https://youtu.be/kQrnEdjQWKI

    This happened more than 5 years ago.

    Davethulhu (385c64)

  146. Was Mr. Johnson lying when he said during a police standoff that he was angry at BLM and wasn’t affiliated with them.

    Then I guess he was a bad shot.

    And, I’ll take a murderer at his word.

    The cases where ludicrous slack cutting is warranted duly noted.

    beer ‘n pretzels (368b0a)

  147. Be consistent. Meaning, take into account how KKK adherents, neo-confederates, David Duke snd garden variety racists are routinely included in the spectrum of Trump supporters.”

    They are Trump supporters. Those vile clowns really love trump and think he’s one of them.

    Their left wing counterparts detest Biden and think he’s a centrist that won’t support their goals. The left wing nutters who are supporting Biden are explicitly saying he’s bad, but Trump is so terrible that it’s worth voting for Biden.

    That’s a pretty big difference.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  148. ABC News has more recent information from the FBI on police fatalities during felonious incidents, through July 14th, and there has been an uptick in 2020.

    And in fact the FBI itself has even more recent data, through August 4. And a very useful comparison infographic through July 31.

    The July 31 infographic shows that 2020 slightly above the same period of 2017 and 2019, but slightly below than the same period of 2016 and 2018.

    There are no additional facts, so any conclusion would be speculative.

    Math is a fact. :)

    According to the latest (August 4) FBI numbers, there were 31 police homicides in 2020, compared to 27 in the same period of 2019, a difference of 4.

    The statistical uncertainty (standard deviation) on the difference is 7.6, meaning that if the two rates were truly equal, the observed difference should be within 7.6 about 68% of the time. The observed difference is barely half a standard deviation.

    So there is no basis for claiming the difference reflects a real increase in the underlying crime rate. As the numbers I posted show, the rate fluctuates up and down year by year, just as one would expect statistically. And the FBI’s infographic bears that out.

    Dave (1bb933)

  149. But Trump cheats all the time, including cheating on elections,

    Paul, I’m asking you to back up your comment. Don’t evade the question by trying to turn this around on me.

    BuDuh (e3f946)

  150. @156, gotta go with you on this one. I’m not aware of credible evidence that Trump has cheated on any elections.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  151. Cohen Pleads Guilty To Tax Evasion, Bank Fraud & Campaign Finance Law Violations

    Count 7 and Count 8 are violations of statutes found in Title 52, Voting and Elections. The relevant language focuses on two campaign contribution laws (you can read those here and here). Specifically, it’s illegal to be the “willful cause” of an unlawful corporate contribution since corporations are barred from making contributions directly to presidential candidates; it is also against the law to make an excessive campaign contribution.

    According to the plea, in 2015, Cohen worked with a campaign for a presidential candidate. As part of the campaign strategy, Cohen worked with an individual who owned a magazine to “help deal with negative stories” about the candidate’s relationships with women. Among other things, Cohen admitted that he assisted the campaign in identifying the stories “so they could be purchased and their publication avoided.”

    Payments were disguised using a series of entities. In court, Cohen told the judge that the payments were made “in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office.” That echoes the statements in the plea agreement which detailed that payments were made “in order to influence the 2016 presidential election.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  152. Recall that there are recordings of Trump discussing the illegal payments directly with Cohen.

    Dave (1bb933)

  153. Paul, I’m asking you to back up your comment. Don’t evade the question by trying to turn this around on me.

    I’ll give you three examples.
    (1) Asking a foreign power to do your political dirty work, asking them to investigate your chief political rival to take that rival down, is illegal under the US Code and easily falls under the category of electoral cheating.
    (2) Trump also made the same request to ChiCom leader Xi, going by John Bolton’s book and what Trump actually said just outside the White House.
    (3) What Dave said about the hush money payments to the pornstar, which weren’t reported to the FEC under law, where “Individual 1″ (read Trump) directed Cohen on the scheme.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  154. Oh, that foreign power in Example 1 is Ukraine, just to be crystal.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  155. (1) …easily falls under the category of electoral cheating.

    You failed to show the actual cheating; Your assertion that he’s an “cheating” seems based solely on your own preconceptions, not on anything that actually has been verified.

    (2)

    Huh?

    (3)

    Double huh??

    Do you have any actual facts?

    BuDuh (6e5e1f)

  156. BuDuh, it’s as if you slept through the recent impeachment.
    Illegally enlisting a foreign power to diminish or take down a chief rival–thus improving your chances at winning–is the epitome of cheating. Trump was actively trying to steal an election, until the whistleblower got his complaint through.
    I’m not sure what criticizing an interviewer has anything to do with anything, per your Newsbusters link.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  157. Illegally enlisting a foreign power to diminish or take down a chief rival–thus improving your chances at winning–is the epitome of cheating.

    Sounds like you are talking about Obama and the Russian collusion flunk.

    BuDuh (6e5e1f)

  158. I’m not sure what criticizing an interviewer has anything to do with anything, per your Newsbusters link.

    Try reading the link for content.

    BuDuh (6e5e1f)

  159. Just 1 week of riots.

    … two months ago.

    Any attack on a police officer lawfully engaged in his or her duty is a terrible crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    Yet your article lists two police deaths, one of which is known to be the act of a right-wing extremist, and the other of a retired black officer off-duty, killed defending his friend’s pawn-shop from looters and hardly fitting the description of race-motivated political violence.

    Dave (1bb933)

  160. Going through the Federalist list, two officers were murdered, Mr. Dorn (which was already addressed) and Mr. Underwood by a right-wing anti-government 4chan-loving Boogaloo.
    If that’s all you’ve got, Rob, I’m inclined to conclude that your statement that “all the cops murdered over the past few months and deny antifa and BLM are the cause of it” is both false and hyperbolic.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  161. Sounds like you are talking about Obama and the Russian collusion flunk.

    I’ll take your comment as non-responsive.

    Try reading the link for content.

    I did, and then a 2nd time just to humor you. Biden said something mean to an interviewer, a thing that Trump does with frequency, so tell me what “content” I missed from Newsbuster that is akin to Biden “cheating”?

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  162. The link is about the coverup of Biden’s comment, Paul.

    BuDuh (f854e4)

  163. Making dinner. I’ll check in later.

    BuDuh (f854e4)

  164. In 2018 (last year with FBI data), there were an average of 1,132 law enforcement officers assaulted per week.

    Dave (1bb933)

  165. Roughly 1/3 of which (346 per week) resulted in injury to the officer.

    Dave (1bb933)

  166. The link is about the coverup of Biden’s comment, Paul.

    Ah, so the “content” you’re citing–in a very conspiratorial way–is that a cable news opinion show covered Biden in a manner that you and Newsbusters didn’t like. Oh my betsy.
    This conversation has strayed way, way off.

    Paul Montagu (f2aab5)

  167. The. I guess we are done, Paul.

    BuDuh (f854e4)

  168. Then…

    BuDuh (f854e4)

  169. @84

    You wouldnt know the truth if it smacked yoi in the face

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1291044659293192192

    Narciso (7404b5) — 8/6/2020 @ 7:35 am

    If Judge Sullivan recuses himself doesn’t that mean a lengthy delay as a new Judge will need to be appointed, have this case worked into their schedule, and familiarize themselves with the relevant information?

    Time123 (d1bf33) — 8/6/2020 @ 7:47 am

    Yes. That’s probably the worst outcome for Flynn, as that could conceivably push a new hearing into 2021. He has to go through the plea hearing again (ie, plead guilty or not), if I’m understanding that correctly.

    The best outcome, is for the en banc, to send it back to Sullivan with the hearing Sullivan wants, but only on the basis of the facts already on front of the court. (ie, no amici-prosecution, further fact-finding hearings, etc.). That should keep give Sullivan a little face-saving opportunity AND allows for quick decision to drop the case per government’s request.

    whembly (c30c83)

  170. @73

    Prediction: Trump and his cultists will continue to falsely claim Biden wants to defund the police.

    Dave (1bb933) — 8/6/2020 @ 6:28 am

    Joe Biden will captiulate to the screaming loud leftist. These loud leftist controls the Democratic party now and he will not say “No” to them. *They* want to defund the police (or, at least defund the federal government’s grants to the police).

    I’d be my savings that Biden will be the most extreme, leftist president in history because he won’t say “no” these these wackadoos.

    whembly (c30c83)


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