Patterico's Pontifications

7/31/2020

Burn Down The GOP In Order To Move Forward?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:28 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Let me point you to Peggy Noonan answering the vexing question of whether burning down the Republican Party is the way for Party to move forward. She doesn’t think so…

The past six months Mr. Trump came up against his own perfect storm, one he could neither exploit nor talk his way past: a pandemic, an economic contraction that will likely produce a lengthy recession, and prolonged, sometimes violent national street protests. If the polls can be trusted, he is on the verge of losing the presidency.

Now various of his foes, in or formerly of his party, want to burn the whole thing down—level the party, salt the earth where it stood, remove Republican senators, replace them with Democrats.

This strikes me as another form of nihilism. It’s bloody-minded and not fully responsible for three reasons.

Noonan then proceeds to lay out her three reasons for not annihilating the Party. In part:

1. The Democratic Party needs the Republican Party, needs it to restrain its excesses and repair what it does that proves injurious. The Republicans need the Democrats, too, for the same reasons.

2. [I]f the Republicans lose the presidency, the House and the Senate in November, the rising progressives of the Democratic Party will be emboldened and present a bill for collection. They’ll push hard for what they want. This will create a runaway train that will encourage bad policy that will damage the nation. Republicans and conservatives used to worry about that kind of thing.

3. Donald Trump is burning himself down. Has no one noticed?

She elaborates:

When the Trump experience is over, the Republican Party will have to be rebuilt. It will have to begin with tens of millions of voters who previously supported Mr. Trump. It will have to decide where it stands, its reason for being. It won’t be enough to repeat old mantras or formulations from 1970 to 2000. It’s 2020. We’re a different country.

A lot is going to have to be rethought. Simple human persuasion will be key.

Rebuilding doesn’t start with fires, purges and lists of those you want ejected from the party.

And she calls out what she sees as the NeverTrump-burn-it-down culprits:

Many if not most of those calling for burning the whole thing down are labeled “Never Trump,” and a lot of them are characterologically quick to point the finger of blame. They’re aiming at Trump supporters in Congress. Some of those lawmakers have abandoned long-held principles to show obeisance to the president and his supporters. Some, as you know if you watched the supposed grilling of tech titans this week, are just idiots.

But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves. Many of them, when they were profiting through past identities as Republicans or conservatives, supported or gave strategic cover to the wars that were such a calamity, and attacked those who dissented. Many showed no respect to those anxious about illegal immigration and privately, sometimes publicly, denounced them as bigots. Never Trumpers eloquently decry the vulgarization of politics and say the presidency is lowered by a man like Mr. Trump, and it is. But they invented Sarah Palin and unrelentingly attacked her critics. They often did it in the name of party loyalty.

Some Never Trumpers helped create the conditions that created President Trump. What would be helpful from them now is not pyromaniac fantasies but constructive modesty, even humility.

I honestly don’t have a clue what would be the most effective way for the Republican Party to remake itself after Trump. I don’t know what they stand for anymore and frankly, and I don’t think I would believe anyone in Party leadership claiming that the Party stands for X, Y, and Z. Not after what we’ve seen in the past 3.5 years. Not after the wide embrace of Trump and the subsequent cost to one’s character. Not after leadership has repeatedly provided cover for the President, refused to hold him accountable, and even whitewashed his corruption (when it benefited them). While Trump faces a possible loss in November, do the Republican lawmakers who supported him, compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces, really believe that everything should, or will just go back to “normal” after it’s no longer the party of Trump? Do they think there should be no reckoning?

–Dana

175 Responses to “Burn Down The GOP In Order To Move Forward?”

  1. Ugh.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. 90% of the republican party supports trump’s populism/social conservatism. The 10% never trumper libertarian conservatives. wealthy /corporatist free trader donor class and neo-con inteligencia who have been run out of the republican party are going to burn down the republican party and run off the 90% who are populists. good luck with that.

    asset (b0b95e)

  3. Noonan: “But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves.”

    Dana: ‘do the Republican lawmakers who supported him, compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces, really believe that everything should, or will just go back to “normal” after it’s no longer the party of Trump? Do they think there should be no reckoning?’

    Yeah, Noonan is spot on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c63793)

  4. 3… no one is more impressed with Noonan than herself, but when you’re right, you are right.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. You might not know what the Republican Party stands for, but it is abundantly clear what the Democratic Party stands for.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  6. Great post, Dana. One thing that has been on my mind is similar to, but not exactly the same as, what Ms. Noonan writes. I have no desire to see Donald Trump continue as President, but I am concerned a Trump loss this November, especially a decisive one, sends the message to the left that the way to combat all Republican politicians is to spend four years calling them names, berating their supporters and working to deny them public outlets in which to make their case, and engaging in massive protest with street violence as a legitimate option. That is a horrible lesson for them to learn, because you can be rest assured it the same strategy will be used on President Nikki Haley, Governor Dan Crenshaw, and any other Republican office-holder from now on. A significant chunk of the Democrat base will believe that “resistance” and petulance is a winning strategy.

    I’ve heard it suggested by more moderate Democrats and some pro-Biden Republicans that Old Joe will put his foot down and demand an end to the street anarchy and the ongoing cancel culture, but I seriously doubt that the poor codger has any control over it. I still do believe that the quickest path to a GOP comeback is to have Democrats control the Presidency and both houses of Congress, but they can cause a great deal of mischief in the two years in which they will be completely in power.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  7. Because she is a free trader peggy noonan forgot the number one reason for trump destroying the republican establishment FREE TRADE! Republican populists got rid of free trade republicans before they were destroyed by them.

    asset (b0b95e)

  8. McConnell signal to Republican Senate candidates: Distance from Trump if necessary
    ……
    In recent weeks, the Senate majority leader has become so concerned over Republicans losing control of the Senate that he has signaled to vulnerable GOP senators in tough races that they could distance themselves from the President if they feel it is necessary, according to multiple senior Republicans including a source close to McConnell.

    That could mean breaking with Trump on the administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic and the continued efforts by the President to paint an optimistic picture despite rising cases and deaths across parts of the country, especially in many Republican states in the South and Midwest.
    …….
    ……. Trump continues to give GOP senators ways to make their break with him easier.

    The President’s sustained assault on mail-in voting lacks GOP allies. And his suggestion on Thursday morning to delay the election drew open rebukes from many top Republicans, including multiple senators up for reelection, as well as McConnell.
    …….
    …….. Senior Republicans say the most vulnerable are Sens. Martha McSally of Arizona, Thom Tillis of North Carolina and Cory Gardner of Colorado. Despite polls showing a tight race in Maine, GOP sources in recent weeks have sounded more optimistic about Sen. Susan Collins, long a target of Democrats and liberal interest groups.

    Sens. Joni Ernst of Iowa and Steve Daines of Montana are also of concern. While some Republicans believe they are both in good shape, other GOP sources tell CNN those races are exceedingly tight and that both candidates’ fortunes may ultimately depend on how Trump does on Election Day in both states………
    ……..
    …….. Tillis’ campaign points to a letter the North Carolina Republican wrote to Vice President Mike Pence in March asking for more coronavirus tests. And in his first campaign ad this year Gardner highlighted local news reports on his successful efforts to import masks and Covid test kits from East Asia to Colorado.

    Last week Gardner joined three of his colleagues in tough races — Tillis, Collins, and McSally — to sign a public letter encouraging McConnell to include spending on clean energy projects in the latest round of stimulus spending.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (361788)

  9. #6 The Democrat party has already made it clear that through open borders and compromising the integrity of voting that the republicans will never be allowed to regain power.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  10. Frankly the best possible outcome, as I see it, for 2020 is that Trump wins reelection, the GOP maintains the Senate, and then Republican representatives, senators, and governors spend the next four years studiously ignoring Donald Trump. I mean they are going to get waxed in the 2022 midterms anyway, so why not remove the taint of Trumpism before you lose your seat?

    Of course a better scenario is that Trump wins, says to the American people “See! I told you I was a winner!” and then resigns the Presidency to spend the rest of his days playing golf in Mar-a-Lago. The GOP would still lose seats in 2022 under President Pence, but I think they would have a better chance at saving some seats that would otherwise be lost.

    A man can dream.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  11. Hijackers holding themselves hostage? Shoot them down! Those Trump toadies are not the GOP.

    nk (1d9030)

  12. The Democrat party has already made it clear that through open borders and compromising the integrity of voting that the republicans will never be allowed to regain power.

    We’re a more resilient country than you might think, and as the sainted Margaret Thatcher used to tell us, the facts of life are conservative.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  13. So if the democrats allow open borders, compromise voting integrity and pack the courts, what is the mechanism for the left to ever give up power through peaceful means?

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  14. 11… Free Gerry!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  15. Recently I’ve seen lots and lots of clueless nitwits succeeding/attempting in burning things down.

    Copying this strategy is pure nitwit logic and will only add to the chaos going on (mostly) on the Left side of the spectrum.
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  16. The only mechanism that has a ghost of a chance is for conservative states to force a constitutional convention and we end up as two counties with irreconcilable differences.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  17. This would also entail redrawing various state borders.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  18. I can see Peggy now… pearl handled filtered cigarette in hand one lit in the ash tray as she stumbles to make a martini at 6 in the morning before sitting down to type on her smith-corona.

    mg (8cbc69)

  19. While Trump faces a possible loss in November, do the Republican lawmakers who supported him, compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces, really believe that everything should, or will just go back to “normal” after it’s no longer the party of Trump?

    They do, and they should be flushed down the sewer of history just like their orange master.

    It’s not too late – yet – for them to confess their sins and renounce Trump. Doing it now, before he goes down in the flood that’s coming, would demonstrate some belated vestige of moral judgment, and also make them part of the solution instead of the problem. Nobody would be happier than I would to welcome them back from the abyss.

    But few, if any, have the courage, even after everything Trump has done – and continues to do – to destroy America, and that makes them worse than useless.

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. Tell me what the Republican Party stands for, other than own the libs and glory of trump, and I’ll tell you if it should be saved. The one I see before me today offers little reason to continue.
    Protectionist, lawless, big government, given to conspiracy theories; the current Republican Party is pointless except as a vehicle for grievance white identity politics.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  21. @19, @20:

    “But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves.”

    A total mind reader, that Noonan.

    beer ‘n pretzels (1e9784)

  22. Trump doesn’t need losers like mitch who is trying to become minority leader. Academia has led us to the cliff, jump and get out of the way and let the rugged individualists save your mahogany paneled walls.

    mg (8cbc69)

  23. Beer and pretzels, you should change your handle to “beer and grievance” that way you could nurse both in a dark room.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  24. But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves.

    As a great man once said, “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  25. Time123, I’m wondering if you could ever prove Noonan wrong.

    beer ‘n pretzels (a7db7c)

  26. The Pandemic Is Damaging the GOP Brand Everywhere
    …….
    In polls, voters have given higher marks to Democratic governors who have moved cautiously on reopening than to Republicans who reopened early in response to President Donald Trump’s cues. That may offer Democrats their best chance to overcome the GOP’s entrenched advantage in state legislatures—which next year will draw local legislative and congressional-district lines that will govern elections through 2030.
    …….
    Democrats still face significant obstacles in erasing the Republican lead in state legislatures. The GOP has a big cushion: It now controls 59 state legislative chambers, compared with just 39 for Democrats, according to figures from the National Conference of State Legislatures……..
    ………
    ……. Democrats are pursuing a wide range of state-level targets in both the Sun Belt and the Rust Belt. Party strategists believe they have the best chance to dislodge current Republican majorities in the Minnesota state Senate; the state Houses in Texas, Michigan, and Iowa; and one or both chambers in Arizona, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania. The GOP advantage now stands at six seats or fewer in all of those chambers except the Texas and Pennsylvania houses, where the Republican cushion is nine seats each. Democratic groups are contesting Florida and Georgia as well, but with the bigger GOP margins there (14 seats in Florida and 16 in Georgia), they remain a tougher climb.
    ………
    ……[A] common thread in these races is that the pandemic has made the functioning of state government seem far more relevant to voters’ lives than it did before. For example, the public-health crisis has provided a vivid backdrop for the calls from Democratic candidates to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act in the states that have refused to do so, including Texas, Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina. Even more, the outbreak has put a spotlight on governors’ decision-making, with Democrats generally moving faster to close down their economies in the spring and more cautiously reopen them this summer, and Republican governors, especially across the Sun Belt, almost uniformly doing the opposite.

    Those choices have produced a divergence in governors’ public approval. Recent polls in Florida and Arizona found the approval ratings for Republican governors Ron DeSantis of Florida and Doug Ducey of Arizona both tumbling to around 40 percent. Recent surveys in Texas have found Republican Governor Greg Abbott relatively stronger, at just under 50 percent, but that figure still represents a big decline from earlier in his tenure…….

    Democratic governors in the key states are generally scoring better: Recent public polls found that about three-fifths of voters gave positive job-approval marks to Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, Cooper in North Carolina, and Tom Wolf in Pennsylvania, while almost two-thirds approve of Tim Walz in Minnesota.
    …….
    ……. Trump’s approval rating stood at only about 40 percent or less in Harris and Dallas Counties in Texas, as well as in Hillsborough (Tampa) and Orange (Orlando) Counties in Florida. His approval was just above 40 percent in Maricopa. The (Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape) poll showed Biden leading Trump in all of those counties.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (361788)

  27. In polls, voters have given higher marks to Democratic governors who have moved cautiously on reopening than to Republicans who reopened early in response to President Donald Trump’s cues.

    People don’t like dying I guess.

    nk (1d9030)

  28. A few other articles in a similar vein to Noonan’s, but by people I take more seriously:

    David French says “No” to “Burn it all down?”

    Charlie Sykes and Mona Charen say “Yes”

    Dave (1bb933)

  29. 19. Dave (1bb933) — 7/31/2020 @ 3:32 pm

    It’s not too late – yet – for them to confess their sins and renounce Trump. Doing it now, before he goes down in the flood that’s coming, would demonstrate some belated vestige of moral judgment,

    Not even Lisa Murkowski is going to quite that

    As for moral judgement, if one party is ad it doesn’t mean the other is good.

    They have different faults, though. But some of them you might not know.

    They try to argue the other party is bad, but they do it different ways. Not mirror imaging.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  30. it still smells fishy to me mr nk

    dead people dont usually answer polls

    except maybe in illinois

    Dave (1bb933)

  31. JVW (ee64e4) — 7/31/2020 @ 2:47 pm

    but they can cause a great deal of mischief in the two years in which they will be completely in power.

    The way it would two years is if the repeat some of 1994 and 2010.

    Nearly force through, or actually force through, a piece of unpopular bad legislation.

    The best possibility would be, not health care this time, but the environmentalism. Maybe some piece of legislation to retrofit all or most homes in America.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b)

  32. One thing I don’t think the Never-Trumpers have considered is that the Trumpiest R’s are exactly the kind to not care about the label on the tin. If the Republican Brand (ugh) is tarnished, they’ll call happily themselves something else. (Don was hardly a loyal partisan before running himself.)

    On the other hand, it is tarnished. Very. I personally noted names, and am happily spending what would have been my vacation money on campaign donations to oust a list of congresscritters, and for ones nearby am putting in more effort. I’ll do it again next time around for the ones who survive. They made their choice, and I enjoy my grudges.

    And it is worse with the youngin’s – if the under 25s give R’s more than 20% in a 2020 election somewhere outside of Mississippi, I’ll be shocked.

    It may be that the choice is made by center-right pols who want a chance to actually win someday.

    john (cd2753)

  33. 21… heh! The country won’t be safe until the last of the Democrat leadership is nuked.

    Only way to be sure…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  34. It doesn’t need to be burned down necessarily, but if you’ve ever watched a rebuilding show, one of the things they do is rip out the mold and the dry rot and the structural damage. That does need to be done.

    Nic (896fdf)

  35. People don’t like dying I guess.

    And yet Chicago…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. Trump is killing twice as many Americans in one day as the West Side gangs will kill in a year.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. Chicago aldermenz should increase teh pay-offs to their shock troops…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. As bad as the Republicans have been….especially in not even creating a viable alternative to Trump going into 2020…..Democrats don’t exactly deserve to view a decisive vote as great faith in their leadership…or even their civility. The Kavanaugh hearings are still fresh in our minds…..as our bad faith negotiations across the board. The Dems are exactly steering down the center of the street when all we hear are…..Green Deals….free college…..socialized medicine…..universal child care….guaranteed income….subsidized housing…..infrastructure hand outs….and of course the typically ill defined reparations. It’s not that all of it will happen right away…but it certainly gets energized when your opponents are routed. These things aren’t suddenly popular because most people think Trump is an incompetent mess. But why didn’t Republicans innoculate themselves from this mess……can’t say that hitting the reset on party leadership wouldn’t be warranted…..

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  39. Nk, ppl like good leadership. Look at Dewines approval in Ohio vs whitmeres in Michigan
    They’re both up, but he’s a lot more popular

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  40. Noonan nails it:

    1. The Democratic Party needs the Republican Party, needs it to restrain its excesses and repair what it does that proves injurious. The Republicans need the Democrats, too, for the same reasons.

    The question is, will Americans be savvy enough to vote Republican in House and Senate races while throwing Trump out of office? I have my doubts. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

    norcal (a5428a)

  41. Maybe Trump could send some court clerks to the Chicago Traffic Court. Snicker, giggle, guffaw!

    nk (1d9030)

  42. Here’s my longish take.
    The GOP lost the House badly in 2018, and I don’t see that reversing anytime soon. The way the trends are going so far, the GOP will lose the Senate this November, and Trump will lose to Biden in a landslide. By mid-November, we’ll see that the results since 2018 could be a more direct repudiation of Trump and Trumpism and anything with the word “Trump” in it. With the passage of time, Trump will only look worse in the rearview mirror. He’ll be competing with Buchanan and Andrew Johnson for the worst three presidents in American history, IMO.
    Far as I’m concerned, I see no reason for this party to stick with this loser and, except for a couple of areas, his loser policies. Bottomline, I don’t want to burn this party down, but it’s badly dysfunctional, so much so an unfit douchebag like Trump was nominated not once, but twice. The party needs to make a major change on presidential nominees. On the Congressional side, I’ll be supporting any conservative candidate who isn’t or wasn’t in the bag for Trump, and take it from there.
    What do I want to see of this party going forward? Lots of things. I want competence and character. I want our policies to be undergirded by verified facts and the best science. I want reverence for the Constitution, due process, the rule of law and our religious faiths. I want classical conservatism and fiscal conservatism. I want us to be pro-life, and not just for life in the womb. I want freedom, free markets and sensible light-touch regulation. I want a foreign policy that rewards our democratic allies and pushes on the unfree states. I want an immigration policy that is pro-law enforcement, pro-immigration and pro-humanitarian. I want our party to recognize that the ancestors of black Americans didn’t ask to come here, and that we’re still dealing with that baggage. I could go on.
    I also see an opening for a third party, and if there’s a viable right-leaning Trump-repudiating alternative, I may just join because Trump may be gone but the folks who nominated him will still be there, and I don’t have a lot of patience if his unquestioning sycophantic followers try to resuscitate the Trumpian ideological husk.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  43. As shown by her 3 points Noonan isn’t in anyway a conservative. She’s just a dopey moderate Democrat who uses the conservative label because she doesn’t like taxes and she’s not a left-wing bomb thrower. Plus, its a good gig.

    She was A-OK with losers like McCain and Romney. I forgot who she supported in 2016, but she it was probably Yeb!, and like most Never-trumpers didn’t really care if Hillary got elected in 2016 and the liberal/left got control of the SCOTUS and the Federal Judiciary for the next 15 years.

    As with most never-trumpers, her dislike of trump doesn’t have anything to do with policy. What specifically has Trump DONE, what policies has he promoted that are so terrible? She never says. Like most Never-trumpers she likes to stay away from concrete reality, and instead blathers about “corruption” and “Character” whatever the hell that means. Of course, like most never trumpers she was shouting about Mueller-trump-russia for 2.5 years and still hasn’t apologized for believing the Left/liberal media.

    Since the Never-trumpes are always so vague and changable about why they hate Trump so much, and so vague about which Trump policies they despise so much, its hard to say how they are going to rebuilt the party.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  44. @26. I gave judging myself a shot.

    8.981

    I slipped on the dismount.

    Time123 (7662f5)

  45. Agh, typos.
    …could not be a more direct repudiation…
    …so much so that an unfit douchebag…
    …don’t have a lot patience with his unquestioning…

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  46. One remembers Noonan’s contempt for Palin. Why did she dislike her so much? It wasn’t about policy, she simply didn’t like an “outsider” coming in and taking the VP slot. And my suspicion is its the same with Trump. He’s not one of “her crowd”. And she’ll be quite happy to have Biden as President, destroying everything she supposedly stands for, because he’s a Senator and former VP and is one of the DC insiders.

    In any case, the Never-trumpers are in no position to “burn the R Party to the ground”. 96% of Republicans support Trump, and Noonan, and the never-trumpers are basically zeroes at this point. They give aid and comfort to the liberal/left by attacking Trump, but no one inside the Party cares what they think. In fact, it would be interesting to know who actually reads/cares about NR or the Dispatch Boys or the Bulwark gang. From reading their comments, at least 60% of their audience seems to be liberal/leftists. The idea that if Trump loses after their support of Biden, Republicans are going to turn to them for guidance is laughable. The days of Collins, Romney, Yeb, etc. are Over. They can get re-elected in their states, but nationally no one will listen to them.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  47. #37 and yet the states And cities where most people have died have democratic governors and democratic mayors whom you absolve of responsibility.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  48. #44 you will get your wish Paul, prepare to be ruled by democrats for the rest of your life.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  49. While Trump faces a possible loss in November, do the Republican lawmakers who supported him, compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces, really believe that everything should, or will just go back to “normal” after it’s no longer the party of Trump?

    How PRECISELY did they

    compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces,

    ? To ask the question is to answer it. This is just meaningless. No one has compromised values or integrity unless you think 96% of the R party that supports Trump has no values or integrity. Did conservatives sacrifice their values and integrity to support McCain in 2008 and 2012?

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  50. Let me point you to Peggy Noonan answering the vexing question of whether burning down the Republican Party is the way for Party to move forward. She doesn’t think so…

    Of course Noonan doesn’t think so. Pegster is part of the problem:

    Reagan Seed.

    Welcome to 1964, Margaret Ellen.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. #44 you will get your wish Paul, prepare to be ruled by democrats for the rest of your life.

    Um, right, that’s my wish. You nailed it, 1DM.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  52. Dana–

    I don’t think the GOP dilemma is a bad as you suppose. Trump did not so much change the GOP as hijack it. Sure, he rubbed their noses in certain things, like illegal immigration and the plight of American middle class that neither party did more but pay lip service to. That Trump also did noting much about these issues is another matter. He ripped the bandages off and then let the patient bleed, but it was better than pretending there were no bandages, or wounds.

    The Sixth Party System, that started somewhere between 1968 and 1980, with the two parties taking fixed positions on many issues, is now dead. The Democrats know this and have abandoned liberalism almost entirely for socialism. The GOP is marking time until Trump leaves the scene. But what is not being said publicly is being said privately.

    I know what I would like to see the GOP embrace: devolution of federal power, restraining the State at all levels, curtailing regulation, rational immigration and at the same time opening up the economy further to entrepreneurs. Settling the abortion thing would also help.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. The best start would be for McConnell to lead 20 GOP Senators to the WH and demand that Trump resign.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. mg and nk are the two sides of the debate that Noonan finds destructive. Can’t say she’s wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. Don’t know where that link came from. Sorry

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. “Some Never Trumpers helped create the conditions that created President Trump.” – Peggy Noonan

    Rubbish, Peggy. You can’t spin your way out of your responsibility and part in this.

    Donald Trump is a Reagan Creation. Trump is the Frankenstein spawned and nurtured in your beloved Ronnie’s gilded, deregulated, ‘greed-is-good,’ go-go 1980’s you so proudly and relentlessly heralded and championed. Trump is the Reagan GOP’s ‘Picture of Dorian Gray’… the scabby, scarred monster you thought locked up in Trump Tower who got loose to terrorize and destroy his very creators. Trump is you, Peggy Noonan. Trump is you. Own it. ‘Denial’ is a river in Egypt.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. One remembers Noonan’s contempt for Palin. Why did she dislike her so much? It wasn’t about policy, she simply didn’t like an “outsider” coming in and taking the VP slot.

    As seems to happen frequently, rcocean’s reality bears little resemblance to ours.

    Noonan positively swooned over Palin’s debate performance.

    Two weeks later as gaffes accumulated and Palin had started only doing friendly interviews, Noonan explained clearly why she had become concerned that Palin was not ready for the job. She did not express “contempt” or anything like it. Doubt, certainly.

    And she didn’t write another word about her, positive or negative, up to the election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  58. The Lincoln Project:

    Wake Up
    We Will Vote

    Dave (1bb933) — 7/31/2020 @ 3:47 pm

    These are both great.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  59. A grift shop, that the chinese regime recycles as propaganda.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  60. When Donald Trump descended in gilded gold elevator, in his Tower, and announced his candidacy, I said, no. Not him. He’s venile and corrupt. Not to mention ignorant, inept and incompetent. I know his type.

    I’ve been involved in real estate, in one way or another, practically all of my life, since I was a child, for over 48 years. I’ve been meeting with bank managers, title company owners, business owners, realtors, brokers, investors, millionaires who bought property down here for tax avoidance purposes, over four decades. A few of them were very successful. The others are all bankrupt and broke, because they were venile, corrupt and stupid.

    That’s Donald Trump. Forget what he’s done to the GOP, look at what he’s done to the country.

    Don’t lump me in with the Never Trump crowd. Those guys are a bunch of neo-con relics. I’m a libertarian. Donald Trump disgusts me. That’s why I didn’t vote for him. I’d seen too many of his like before. He’s a total fraud.

    I couldn’t care less about the GOP. If it goes down in flames, it will be because of the wildfires they started or allowed to flare up, and did nothing to contain them or put them out, while the entire country burned to the ground.

    Screw them. I won’t be voting for any Republican this year.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  61. 18.I can see Peggy now… pearl handled filtered cigarette in hand one lit in the ash tray as she stumbles to make a martini at 6 in the morning before sitting down to type on her smith-corona.

    Meh. I can hear her now –literally– on tapes as a CBS News Radio 88, NY, street reporter doing one-on-ones w/ stunned fans the night John Lennon was shot in December 8, 1980.

    This broad is staler than 40 year old saltine crackers in a bomb shelter– and everything George Will.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. The best start would be for McConnell to lead 20 GOP Senators to the WH and demand that Trump resign.

    Too risky – he could run for office again.

    Impeach
    Convict
    Disqualify
    Bill of Attainder for Treason
    Corruption of blood for the next five ten generations
    Removal of jurisdiction for all cases and appeals arising from above to Supreme Court of Puerto Rico
    Carry out the sentence at dawn

    Dave (1bb933)

  63. 17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great.”

    19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

    And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

    nk (1d9030)

  64. 61… you write as if these grifters care, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. Beefing ruled by democrats the rest of your life is an unintended consequence of your wish. The democrats have made it clear how this will be accomplished when they gain power.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  66. I wish our system was more amenable to 3d parties, so I could throw in with fellow Americans less devoted to tribes and ideologies than to mutual generosity and respect. Sadly I’m stuck with two political parties which could hardly be less that. I want no part of either, but only one of them has saddled us with a president so malignantly disordered, ignorant and corrupt that every day he remains in the White House undermines the laws and institutions this country and its prosperity were built upon.

    That’s an emergency of historic dimensions. Trump and his enablers must be removed. With the grace of God they’d be replaced by competent, honest folks committed to liberty, equality and decency. Unfortunately the only replacements on the menu Democrats. That’s a far cry from what we need, but it’s a necessary least bad alternative. Under the circumstances I’ll hold my nose and vote against every Trump-loyal Republican until the GOP is Trumpism-free.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  67. I think rcocean persuaded me…..burn it down

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  68. 69.

    Yes, he can be very persuasive that way.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  69. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

    So that’s how his skin got that weird orange color…

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. 62… thoughts and prayers for those who will be evicted and lose their homes…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. Beefing ruled by democrats the rest of your life is an unintended consequence of your wish.

    Like The Dude says
    Who knew that rejecting Trump’s Buchananesque paleo retro nationalist-isolationist schtick means that Democrats will rule forever, no more cycles.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  72. ……….I know what I would like to see the GOP embrace: devolution of federal power, restraining the State at all levels, curtailing regulation, rational immigration and at the same time opening up the economy further to entrepreneurs. Settling the abortion thing would also help.
    Also repeal of welfare programs-food stamps, SDI, SS, corporate subsidies, etc.

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  73. Also privatization to the maximum extent possible.

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  74. The never Trumpers trying to remove what is there and replace it with something else miss being able to criticize Democrat administrations endlessly as a means of filling their cruise ships but never having to deal with what they would do if they ever got into power. They loved the Obama years.

    Lazlo Toth (cbb623)

  75. Also repeal of welfare programs-food stamps, SDI, SS, corporate subsidies, etc.

    Rip Murdock (3215ca) — 7/31/2020 @ 6:43 pm

    Also privatization to the maximum extent possible.

    Rip Murdock (3215ca) — 7/31/2020 @ 6:45 pm

    You gonna build your own log cabin in Kentucky with the trees you’ve cleared for your cornfield, and strain saltpeter, burn wood for charcoal, and boil down water from the sulfur spring to make your own gunpowder for your flintlock, too?

    It’s not 1720, it’s 2020, there are 7.8 billion people in the world, and it’s not all those things you list that should concern you. What should concern you is what Soylent Green is going to be made out of.

    nk (1d9030)

  76. So wheres the discrepancy, the heaving breating hes made to the times

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/07/fauci-testifies-before-congress-with-news-democrats-dont-want-to-hear/

    Narciso (7404b5)

  77. Drop your torch for Reagan, Peggy– and go up in flames w/t Hell you helped create.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. The never Trumpers trying to remove what is there and replace it with something else

    Wrong! When I scrape dirt off the soles of my shoes, I’m not looking to replace it with something else.

    nk (1d9030)

  79. honestly don’t have a clue what would be the most effective way for the Republican Party to remake itself after Trump. I don’t know what they stand for anymore and frankly, and I don’t think I would believe anyone in Party leadership claiming that the Party stands for X, Y, and Z. Not after what we’ve seen in the past 3.5 years. Not after the wide embrace of Trump and the subsequent cost to one’s character. Not after leadership has repeatedly provided cover for the President, refused to hold him accountable, and even whitewashed his corruption (when it benefited them). While Trump faces a possible loss in November, do the Republican lawmakers who supported him, compromised their own values and integrity to stay in his good graces, really believe that everything should, or will just go back to “normal” after it’s no longer the party of Trump? Do they think there should be no reckoning?

    –Dana

    *shaking my head in sadness*

    NJRob (b51969)

  80. @72-
    I don’t see what building a log cabin has to do with limiting the role of government. Do you think government has a role in handing out dollars? Isn’t individual responsibility more important?

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  81. The dems spent four years pursuing a nonexistent by some russian drunk and his buddies, and noonan thinks they care about political opposition, what is this the laugh factory.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  82. Correction #74

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  83. @77-
    not all those things you list that should concern you
    My (and yours) taxes pay for them.

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  84. I don’t see what building a log cabin has to do with limiting the role of government.

    It sets the period for when your ideal was still practical.

    Do you think government has a role in handing out dollars?

    More than a role. A monopoly. Nobody, anywhere, is wealthy unless the government permits them to be.

    Isn’t individual responsibility more important?

    More important than ever, but in today’s world not Herbert Spencer’s.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. It’s amazing that many Trump supporters have entered the thread, and not a one of them has told us why we should actually want Trump to be the president. Not a single reason for him. Just a lot of warnings about how scary the democrats will be. Just a lot of ‘binary choice’ combined with attempts to define the alternative to Trump as beyond hellish.

    That, my friends, is a pathetic re-election message. I thought Trump was supposed to accomplish all this stuff in his first 100 days. We’re less than 100 days from the next election and he’s got nothing but screw ups and evading accusations.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  86. I for one hope the GOP gets back to their messaging of smaller government, that worked for them for so well through about 40 years of uninterrupted government growth. Maybe they could talk up repealing Obamacare, too, that one might have some juice left in it yet.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  87. The problem is not the “system”, and it’s not the “party”. It’s not even a question of electing the “right person”. It’s the people!

    I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.

    Milton Friedman

    In a more famous author’s words:

    the fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves

    Instead of hand-wringing or talking about our broken system, do something to change the political climate of opinion out there.

    norcal (a5428a)

  88. 88.It’s amazing that many Trump supporters have entered the thread, and not a one of them has told us why we should actually want Trump to be the president.

    Then you haven’t been reading closely. He’s a dream come true: temporary inconvenience; permanent improvement. The objective is to effectively neuter the modern ideological conservative movement.

    Welcome to 1964.

    :-)

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. He’s a penny-ante huckster rooking rubes who wouldn’t know an ideological movement from a bowel movement.

    nk (1d9030)

  90. I thought Trump was supposed to accomplish all this stuff in his first 100 days.

    LOL

    The plot to take him down was already ten months old before he started his first 1 day. It escalated from there.

    But, if you want a reason that’s been repeated umpteen times, take the Boston Marathon bomber death penalty reversal — two out of three judges Obama appointees. Expand that to the umpteen cases that will go a different way for umpteen years because you and others forgot what a turd Biden is, and all the turd people he will surround himself with.

    beer ‘n pretzels (368b0a)

  91. The plot to take him down was already ten months old before he started his first 1 day. It escalated from there.

    I thought y’all said Trump could fight and handle that stuff a lot better than that wimp Bush did.

    Bush got a lot more done though. Honestly the difference between Bush’s competence Trump’s is so vast I wouldn’t know where to begin. Like comparing a 747 to a marshmallow.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  92. Look, you don’t have to be president. If you sign up for a job like that, you need to be ready to handle a lot of things far more difficult than criticism from democrats.

    Case in point, imagine you screwed up at McDonalds and the ice cream machine stopped working. You probably feel bad with some kids can’t get their ice cream cone. Now pretend that ice cream cone is 150,000 dead people.

    🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦

    Dustin (4237e0)

  93. That’s an emergency of historic dimensions. Trump and his enablers must be removed. With the grace of God they’d be replaced by competent, honest folks committed to liberty, equality and decency. Unfortunately the only replacements on the menu Democrats. That’s a far cry from what we need, but it’s a necessary least bad alternative. Under the circumstances I’ll hold my nose and vote against every Trump-loyal Republican until the GOP is Trumpism-free.

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 7/31/2020 @ 6:10 pm

    You support communists and all those that desire the end of America. You make that clear in the paragraph above.

    NJRob (b51969)

  94. Glad you could reduce the argument to your level, Dustin.

    beer ‘n pretzels (04f282)

  95. Thats the only question of note, except for cotton, hawley cruz a few others the party is out to lunch

    Narciso (7404b5)

  96. Glad you could reduce the argument to your level, Dustin.

    beer ‘n pretzels (04f282) — 7/31/2020 @ 8:16 pm

    I certainly wasn’t going to elevate it.

    Ice cream is always my level.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  97. @95-
    Add a few more cones:

    DC projects U.S. coronavirus death toll could top 180,000 by Aug. 22

    ……..[T]he Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is forecasting that the total American death toll from COVID-19 could hit 182,000 by the fourth week of August, according to an internal government document obtained by Yahoo News.

    The new projection, which has not yet been publicly released, contradicts the more optimistic portrait that President Trump and others in his administration have painted about the pandemic. While the president in recent days has acknowledged the worsening situation in the United States, which has more cases than any other country in the world, he has also continued to insist the virus will simply “disappear.”

    …… On Thursday the CDC reported 1,417 new deaths from the coronavirus.

    The CDC has produced weekly projections on deaths attributable to COVID-19 based on a “national ensemble” of more than two dozen different models. Last week’s forecast predicted between 160,000 and 175,000 deaths by Aug. 15. This week’s put that number at between 168,000 and 182,000 by Aug. 22, according to the document obtained by Yahoo News.
    ………
    …….[T]he overall U.S. mortality rate for the coronavirus is the 10th highest in the world.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (3215ca)

  98. You support communists and all those that desire the end of America. You make that clear in the paragraph above.
    NJRob (b51969) — 7/31/2020 @ 8:07 pm

    Lol naturally Rob, it couldn’t be clearer. I owe it all to the inspiration I take from your equally incontrovertible support for pedophilia and vivisecting kittens.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  99. We are all #NeverTrump now.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. @93 The problem is that you and people like you on both the far left and the far right have decided that a “turd person” is defined by whether or not their politics agree with yours. Most of the rest of us do not define “turd person” in that way.

    Biden does not, in fact, appear to be a turd person, which the rest of us (other than DCSCA, who I suspect is just indulging in gallows humor at this point) are to be able to figure out because he doesn’t have the life of a “turd person”. He may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer and may be feeling the effects of age, but he hasn’t shown himself to be a “turd person”. I don’t agree with all his politics, but I’d sit down to lunch with him at the same small table.

    Trump, OTOH, is in fact a “turd person”. He is a serial adulterer, pays for sex, finds excuses to walk in on undressed teenage girls, consorts with sex traffickers, talks about assaulting women, violates contracts, defrauds employees, brings repeated frivolous lawsuits, lies constantly, calls people rude names and is otherwise endlessly rude to them, makes decisions based on revenge, goes back on his word and is, at very least, racist adjacent. I don’t agree with all his politics and if I were asked to sit down to lunch with him I’d leave immediately.

    Nic (896fdf)

  101. Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to the continuance of the United States.

    To all that support Trump, you are the traitors. You are the ones that are burning the country down. You are the ones destroying the only viable opposition party. YOU ARE. No one else. Stop pointing fingers like your orange mamzer does. It’s on YOU. Evey lost seat, every lost judge, up and down the line. By insisting that we all bite the bullet and vote for a man who is so manifestly unfit for office that a bout of socialism seem s like a better choice, it’s on you.

    Trump may be an obstinate fool, but those who line up behind him are worse. I have no respect for anyone who wants Trump to continue as president. I would MUCH prefer that he dropped out, was impeached, had a stroke or was hit by lightning from a clear blue sky. But it is treason to support him for president. Stop it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. That being said, I’m not sure that Biden is any better and if he picks Kamala Harris I will know he is not. The best thing, by far, that Donald Trump could ever do is drop out of the race today. He should, because if he persists, and loses, not one hand will be raised in his defense when they come for him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. @104. ROFLMAOPIP.

    Welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. The best thing, by far, that Donald Trump could ever do is drop out of the race today.

    Can you imagine the sinking feeling in Joe Biden’s gut if he read that on the front page?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  105. Wow Kevin.

    Meanwhile Jonah Goldberg also says “No” to burning it all down. I’m not sure I agree, but worth reading.

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. Can you imagine the sinking feeling in Joe Biden’s gut if he read that on the front page?

    Any scenario without Trump is an improvement, but does the craven Pence, who hasn’t lifted a finger to restrain him, deserve to get off so easily?

    Dave (1bb933)

  107. @103. Biden does not, in fact, appear to be a turd person.

    On the contrary. Plagiarist JoeyBee is just that – a PLAGIARIST. It forced him to drop out of the 1988 campaigm.

    Plagiarism is a blatant character tell.

    Plagiarism is theft; the stealing of another person[s] work product. It is also a reveal to intellectual laziness. Something you’d expect from a turd person.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. @103. Trump, OTOH, is in fact a “turd person”. He is a serial adulterer, pays for sex, finds excuses to walk in on undressed teenage girls, consorts with sex traffickers, talks about assaulting women, violates contracts, defrauds employees, brings repeated frivolous lawsuits, lies constantly, calls people rude names and is otherwise endlessly rude to them, makes decisions based on revenge, goes back on his word and is, at very least, racist adjacent. I don’t agree with all his politics and if I were asked to sit down to lunch with him I’d leave immediately.

    Never forget- in this era, Americans don’t want o be governed, they wish to be entertained.

    Trump has the better act: J.R. Ewing beats George Wilson every time. And I’ not only sit down an have lunch with him– I’d have the same thing he was having- Quarter Pounder w/Cheese,, fries and large Diet Coke.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. does the craven Pence, who hasn’t lifted a finger to restrain him, deserve to get off so easily?

    Dave (1bb933) — 7/31/2020 @ 10:04 pm

    I’m assuming Pence isn’t the candidate because come on.

    I would also like a quarter pounder w/ cheese please

    Dustin (4237e0)

  110. Biden does not, in fact, appear to be a turd person

    LOL “in fact”

    beer ‘n pretzels (888d61)

  111. @105. The moment Plagiarist JoeyBee picks a black woman as a running mate is the day he loses. America is 75%-plus white and ‘Whitey’ checked the black box in 2008 and 2012. Given his frail condition, gaffe-prone dialect and mental unevenness, ain’t no way ‘the Silent Majority’ is going to put any bossy black babe a heartbeat away from the Oval. Especially w/so may angry blacks and brown in their faces on their TeeVees every night. Not gonna happen.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. During my college years, circa 1987, Biden came to BYU to speak. I believe he was testing the waters for his 1988 run. Anyway, it wasn’t a big event. There were a few dozen in attendance. Because I was and am such a political junkie (I remember watching the Republican convention as a twelve-year-old in 1976, and hoping that Reagan could squeak out a win over Ford. Who does that?), I went to hear Biden speak.

    I only remember two things from his speech. He used the phrase “nuclearize the heavens” in expressing his opposition to Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative (Star Wars). And, when he was asked if he would confirm Orrin Hatch as a potential nominee to the Supreme Court, declined to take a position.

    In retrospect, I wish I had gone up to Biden after the speech and whispered a warning about plagiarism, thus depriving DCSCA of his future fulminations.

    norcal (a5428a)

  113. @103. Biden does not, in fact, appear to be a turd person.

    On the contrary. Plagiarist JoeyBee is just that – a PLAGIARIST. It forced him to drop out of the 1988 campaigm.

    Plagiarism is a blatant character tell.

    Plagiarism is theft; the stealing of another person[s] work product. It is also a reveal to intellectual laziness. Something you’d expect from a turd person.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  114. Burn it all down? Such a dumb question. It was burned down when the Left went after an elected president on day one and self-anointed “conservatives” cheered it on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (888d61)

  115. @115. There were a few dozen in attendance.

    Not unlike his basement bunker pressers of today.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. @110 Gallows humor DCSCA, gallows humor.

    @111 Oh, I don’t doubt that he is highly entertaining in a fun way for, say, the Kremilin. I would say that for most of us, though, he’s not precisely entertaining. More sucking up all the air in the room on a continual basis, leaving the rest of us wondering if we are going to die of oxygen deprivation. Which I suppose is at least distracting, though not what I would call traditionally “entertaining”.

    Nic (896fdf)

  117. @113 Other than DCSCA’s obsession, Biden appears to have lived a pretty blameless life. Faithful to both wives, didn’t even get divorced. Raised three kids. Attends mass on a regular basis. Mostly just a normal dude who happens to work in Washington.

    Nic (896fdf)

  118. @116 you should check which account you are signed into before posting. (I’m kidding. I’m not really accusing you of being a sockpuppet.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  119. @116 you should check which account you are signed into before posting. (I’m kidding. I’m not really accusing you of being a sockpuppet.)

    Nic (896fdf) — 7/31/2020 @ 10:43 pm

    LOL I definitely opened myself up for that though.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  120. It was burned down when the Left went after an elected president on day one and self-anointed “conservatives” cheered it on.

    Nobody “went after” Trump, beyond critizing him, until he fired the FBI director in a clumsy attempt to cover up the Russian military’s attack on America (of which he was the intended and actual beneficiary).

    And it Trump’s personal appointee, not any Democrat, who launched the Mueller probe in response.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. it *was Trump’s personal appointee…

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. You support communists and all those that desire the end of America.

    That is the false choice that Trumpalistas keep propounding.
    The real choice is a completely unfit Trump versus a bumbling short-lived liberalism, and it would be short-lived for the same reason that Obama lost the House two years into his office.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  123. Anyone who regularly invokes Mr. Wilson from Dennis the Menace (circa 1959-1963)…..should avoid throwing around the charge of being “stale”…..just sayin’

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  124. Brothers, the Trump and Trumpkin relationship is just as easily understood as it is misunderstood.
    You see, Trump is not the Daddy.
    He is the doxy.
    The kept woman who has vamped all the impotent old geezers and is sponging off of them.
    Got them totally bedazzled and they won’t hear a bad word about her even though she’s running around with everybody else under their very own eyes.
    They shower her with money. They shower her with jewels. They give her cars and nice places to live. And it bears repeating that they are so befuddled that they won’t believe a bad thing about her.
    Call him Imabelle. Imabelle Trump. And you will always know Trumpkins.

    nk (1d9030)

  125. Jonah (you did read the article I linked above, right?) describes it like this, nk:

    Moreover, as I’ve written countless times, Trumpism isn’t an ideology, despite many desperate and often embarrassing attempts to make it one. It’s a psychological phenomenon that begins with the president’s own deformed psychology and extends outward like a radiation cloud, mutating all those not immune to its seductive Eldritch energies. Today’s GOP and much of rightwing media is a vast Rube Goldberg (no relation) machine powered by a hyperactive hamster with improbable fur, spinning a wheel as it runs after its own reflection in a mirror. That hamster is Donald Trump’s id.

    Apart from his unfortunate choice of rodent species, it seems apt.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. No, I’m sorry, Mr. Dave, I did not read Jonah’s article. I rarely read those kind of things. I am all too aware of my own conceits to take the conceits of other men seriously, particularly when they are paid to write them on a regular basis. I did listen to Smoke Gets In Your Eyes by the Platters.

    nk (1d9030)

  127. plagiarism, for the head of the judiciary committee, which included the swimmer, is serious, being a useful idiot, for the soviets through the 90s, also qalifies, pushing for the partition of iraq, per his sherpa peter galbraith, who also pushed to get rid of karzai, playing wackamole with the drones, but opposing the hit on ubl, also not a good look,

    narciso (7404b5)

  128. In 1973, when Wolfman Jack was on AM radio in Chicago.

    nk (1d9030)

  129. And the six million dollar man was in furst run episodes.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  130. Its nice work if you can get it:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1289228859561320450

    Bialystok would be impressed

    Narciso (7404b5)

  131. Did madtigal stop embarassing himself

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1289275059710746624?

    Narciso (7404b5)

  132. For better or worse….the GOP gets 90% of its oxygen from Fox News and Talk Radio…..and once both were internally compromised….the hope of a viable insurgency was pretty much extinguished. Trump was the opportunity for Fox talent to be the ear-whisperers to the President…..mix in a few other unserious advisors and a leader who is winging it….and we get what appears to be the amateur hour. The stragey for some GOPers was to try to work within team Trump and professionalize the operation as much as possible. I would credit Hailey and Kelly with that tact. But was it the right move? Did it instead create a culture of rationalization and excuse making that got locked in and ensured that the objective criticism from the Right wouldn’t happen…or would be pidgeon-holed? No voice arose to say “we need to have better leadership”…..all GOPers facing re-election have to answer that charge.

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  133. Well, those people, Fox, Breitbart, the various blog.coms, et al, they’re just gold-diggers too. Trump provided with a 15 million person market segment and they’re milking it for all its worth. He’s their Marlboro man and the tripe they peddle is the Marlboro.

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Speaking of friendly media, is Sarah Cooper the real reason Imabelle is banning Tik Tok you think?

    nk (1d9030)

  135. @139 Trump provided *them* with

    nk (1d9030)

  136. “I don’t know what they stand for anymore”

    People who callously profiteered off of blunting, minimizing, and redirecting popular opposition to dumb foreign wars, mass Third World immigration, and outsourcing industrial capacity via ‘free trade’ suddenly can’t find a place in a party that’s now 95% explicitly against those things.

    Now use their corporate backing and statistical legerdemain once used to advance fact-free concepts like ‘immigration benefits us all!’, ‘outsourcing provides us the same value or more as making products here!’ and ‘Iraq is an imminent threat to the world! to repeat new dumass concepts, like ‘Russia is an imminent threat to the world!’ ‘China’s SpyWare Suite Currently Known As TikTok is just another form of the free market!’ and ‘Red States and Trump voters HARDEST HIT By Too Wong Flu: Thanks for everything IF you squint really hard at this tiny part of this graph!’

    May you all wander in the political wilderness until your much-deserved expiration.

    Burj Superfly (bdf7ef)

  137. Reading some of the comments, it makes me wonder if the Never-Trumpers and the so-called Libertarians are actually living on planet earth. Do they realize its 2020, and not 2000, 2012 or 2008? You characters had your shot and gave us Bush I, McCain, and Romney. Three losers. All of whom supported Amnesty, Big Government, Gutting American manufacturing, cutting deals with Ted Kennedy, and endless wars in the middle east. Not to mention helping the Banksters out of their mess in 2008.

    Bush won almost by a fluke, and McCain and Romney who were so “electable” and “Moderate” couldn’t even beat Mr. Zero. While, Republicans ARE stupid, I don’t think they’re stupid enough to ever listen the Neo-Con, Moderate, Libertarian, gang that gave us disaster after disaster and have opposed the only President in 20 years to WIN and give us something the Republican actually wanted.

    The Never Trumper aren’t even Republicans at this point. They’re like Weld, Comey or Mueller – all Life Long Republicans – who don’t have a conservative bone in their bodies. To get back to Noonan, she’s been giving aid and comfort to the liberal/left for 4 years and will be AWOL in the coming struggle to save America in November 2016. Who is going to listen to her if Trump loses? Nobody with a brain.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  138. Plenty of typos in the previous post, but anyone who cares can get the gist. Anyway, its just the intertubes.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  139. Biden appears to have lived a pretty blameless life. Faithful to both wives, didn’t even get divorced. Raised three kids. Attends mass on a regular basis. Mostly just a normal dude who happens to work in Washington.

    Normal?

    Other than vanity hair plugs and multiple brain surgeries; other than being deliberately deceitful about his income, a liar about his travels and chumming for racists and his son w/t Ukraine; other than being a known PLAGIARIST- which is out right stealing, a blatant character tell and signals mental laziness; other than betraying the very middle class he boasts he champions w/banking legislation favorin his Delaware-based credit card pals; other than being a Scranton boy one week and a Wilmington fella the next; other than demonstrating a disturbing, worsening, gaffe-prone dialect with increasing emotional instability; other than literally being part of the problem in the Beltway for 40 years– yeah, he’s “normal” — for Washington D.C.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. @126. And yet you connect w/it; all the more damning for Plagiarist JoeyBee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. I’m moving this weekend, in part because my housemate (and master tenant) decided they are having an out of town guest stay in the apartment — without having talked to me about it before.

    aphrael (f63619)

  142. Sorry but I have to push back on the alternative reality painted in #145. There was no magic super-conservative candidate that was going to rescue 2008. The country was war weary and pointing at ineffective Republican leadership during the housing meltdown and recession. Republicans lost both the house and senate in the years running up to 2008….so it wasn’t just moderate McCain not “fighting”….the mood of the country had turned. Huckabee, Fred Thompson, Giuliani….does anyone really think any of them would have made a difference in 2008?

    Fast forward to 2012….Obama no longer could be tarred as inexperienced….and the economy had improved…and he scored a major if not controversial legislative victory. Yes, this reinvigorated opposition and politics swung back right. Romney was not a great campaigner….but were Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul any better….or better positioned to win the toss up states? Romney professionalized the GOP…..gone was the W-twang and McCain gruffiness. He was the business professional who also had government experience…he had run things….and with the Olympics, run them well. He certainly could have hit harder in the last debate…but the reality was, Obama was still popular…enough. The notion that the GOP rolled over…or lost because there was some untapped nationalism….is silly. If nationalism was popular, why did Ron Paul flame out so decisively?

    None of this produced Trump…there were 4 or 5 other candidates in that race who could have whipped Hillary….who was a historically weak and unlikeable candidate. The Republican message didn’t need to drift so far from Reagan…..and have it delivered by someone who came off far more like PT Barnum. 2020 will tell which of us is right. If you really believe Trump’s message resonates with the masses, then we should see a decisive GOP victory. If not, please go away…..please

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  143. Moving sucks, sorry to hear that aphrael.

    My graduate student (who’s in France atm) is also moving today, and by the looks of it, so are my next-door neighbors.

    Dave (1bb933)

  144. Smart neighbors!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. Sorry to hear you are having to move this weekend, aphrael. I hope you’ve found a new place. I don’t recall in what part of Florida you live, but if it’s on the east coast, be careful. A bad time to be moving.

    Dana (292df6)

  146. Dana – I used to live in San Francisco, i’ll be landing in Alameda. :)

    aphrael (f63619)

  147. Oh, I thought you were still in FL. Why wasn’t I told you had moved???!!!!

    Seriously, though, I hope it’s an easy move. (Moving is on my top ten “What I Hate To Do” list.)

    Dana (292df6)

  148. Agreed, AJ. Had the financial meltdown happened three months later, say in December 2008, McCain could’ve been president.
    Romney had an uphill battle against an incumbent in a growing economy, and he was never a good campaigner.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  149. Thanks for the truth bomb, AJ_Liberty.

    It’s rare for a party to hold the WH after a two-term president, and Obama was a very gifted retail politician who had every trend working in his favor in 2008 and again in 2012. Voting for the first black president made people feel good about themselves and good about the country. Trying to demonize Obama would have only made Obama’s own strategy easier and more effective.

    Fortunately, the Dems didn’t exactly have a bench full of people as cuddly as Obama, and if the low-information/education segment of the GOP hadn’t lost their mind in 2016, we could have elected a competent conservative instead of a psychopath.

    Dave (1bb933)

  150. Fast forward to 2012….Obama no longer could be tarred as inexperienced….and the economy had improved…and he scored a major if not controversial legislative victory. Yes, this reinvigorated opposition and politics swung back right. Romney was not a great campaigner….but were Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul any better….or better positioned to win the toss up states? Romney professionalized the GOP…..gone was the W-twang and McCain gruffiness. He was the business professional who also had government experience…he had run things….and with the Olympics, run them well. He certainly could have hit harder in the last debate…but the reality was, Obama was still popular…enough. The notion that the GOP rolled over…or lost because there was some untapped nationalism….is silly. If nationalism was popular, why did Ron Paul flame out so decisively?

    None of this produced Trump…there were 4 or 5 other candidates in that race who could have whipped Hillary….who was a historically weak and unlikeable candidate. The Republican message didn’t need to drift so far from Reagan…..and have it delivered by someone who came off far more like PT Barnum. 2020 will tell which of us is right. If you really believe Trump’s message resonates with the masses, then we should see a decisive GOP victory. If not, please go away…..please

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883) — 8/1/2020 @ 11:10 am

    Romney was the one who couldn’t test run a basic computer program that crashed on election day, destroying all chances to target his supporters in get out the vote efforts.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  151. @154 Good luck with the move. I hear that the weather on your side of the coastals has been lovely, so at least it shouldn’t be too much of a chore.

    Nic (896fdf)

  152. does the craven Pence, who hasn’t lifted a finger to restrain him, deserve to get off so easily?

    I will bet, even odds, that Pence is not a candidate for anything in 2020.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  153. it would be short-lived for the same reason that Obama lost the House two years into his office.

    How’s that Obamacare repeal going? And what do you suppose President Harris will do about guns, considering what AG Harris did in California. “Oh, but the Supreme Court will stop her!” Really? The 17 member Court?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  154. gave us Bush I, McCain, and Romney. Three losers.

    Sadly, when your guy loses every state and the Senate has 63 Democrats, you won’t be here to eat those words.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  155. OTOH, those would would rejoice if Trump loses every state and the Senate has 63 Democrats had better hide their guns NOW.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  156. Had the financial meltdown happened three months later, say in December 2008, McCain could’ve been president.

    Had McCain not suspended campaigning and rushing off to “help” people who knew economics better than he, and looking the fool for doing so, maybe he would have won anyway.

    And had Romney been the candidate in 2008,a terrified nation would have turned to a man who effing knew what he was doing in the financial world.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  157. “Romney was the one who couldn’t test run a basic computer program that crashed on election day, destroying all chances to target his supporters in get out the vote efforts.”

    I’m not sure what this means…..why would the candidate being doing IT support tasks on election day? He has polsters and advisors who job is to do this. This sounds like urban legend stuff

    AJ_Liberty (5b2883)

  158. Now if they had actually got their act and backed cruz from the start, but thats what the sea island conference was about

    Narciso (7404b5)

  159. Or maybe I spoke too soon about TikTok. At the very least, Trump’s big mouth delayed the deal with Microsoft.

    Paul Montagu (1ef895)

  160. “Romney was the one who couldn’t test run a basic computer program that crashed on election day, destroying all chances to target his supporters in get out the vote efforts.”

    Written by guys who weren’t all that upset that it didn’t work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  161. “The torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans…”

    Drop it.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. #88

    It’s amazing that many Trump supporters have entered the thread, and not a one of them has told us why we should actually want Trump to be the president. Not a single reason for him. Just a lot of warnings about how scary the democrats will be. Just a lot of ‘binary choice’ combined with attempts to define the alternative to Trump as beyond hellish.

    That, my friends, is a pathetic re-election message. I thought Trump was supposed to accomplish all this stuff in his first 100 days. We’re less than 100 days from the next election and he’s got nothing but screw ups and evading accusations.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 7/31/2020 @ 7:17 pm

    It’s not amazing…

    It’s pragmatic.

    Is it “pathetic” that Trump can’t stop stepping on his wang every 10 seconds and elevate himself? Yup.

    Does it matter? Only if his opponent is a worthy alternative…

    So, we gotta choose…

    We literally only have a handful of choices… and it’s as close as a binary choice as it gets. You can protest all you want that folks can vote for other candidates, but pragmatically, the next president is either going to be Trump or Biden.

    Choose.

    I can list out numerous things that I give Trump credit. I can also list out numerous things that I disagree or don’t like about Trump.

    I’m struggling really, really hard to believe what “good” would come out of a Biden administration. Little help here please. Maybe the inanity of the current media bubble would subside… maybe all these riots would subside. But, that’s not enough for me to pull the lever for Biden.

    In the end, choose… Trump or Biden.

    Here’s the deal.

    It’s going to come down what you perceive as important as to who reside in the White House:
    A) That this is a popularity contest based on how such a person “looks” and “handles” the office of the Presidency.
    or…
    B) You vote for a candidate that will most likely advance your preferred policies, despite how such a person “looks” or “handles” the office of the Presidency.
    or..
    C) Don’t vote, sit this one out in protest.
    or…
    D) Vote for the Green/Independent/Write-In candidate in protest.

    Choose.

    For me, I think getting excited about any candidate and being willing to vote *for* a candidate is largely fools gold.

    Romney was the one and only Presidential candidate that I voted *for* in my life for President (current disappointment notwithstanding), because I truly believe he’s a decent human being.

    The biggest driver as to why I’m voting for Trump, are that the policies that I support that he’d advance and that I don’t want to reward the maniacal left for their behaviors during the last 4 years.

    whembly (c30c83)

  163. @103

    @93 The problem is that you and people like you on both the far left and the far right have decided that a “turd person” is defined by whether or not their politics agree with yours. Most of the rest of us do not define “turd person” in that way.

    Biden does not, in fact, appear to be a turd person, which the rest of us (other than DCSCA, who I suspect is just indulging in gallows humor at this point) are to be able to figure out because he doesn’t have the life of a “turd person”. He may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer and may be feeling the effects of age, but he hasn’t shown himself to be a “turd person”. I don’t agree with all his politics, but I’d sit down to lunch with him at the same small table.

    Trump, OTOH, is in fact a “turd person”. He is a serial adulterer, pays for sex, finds excuses to walk in on undressed teenage girls, consorts with sex traffickers, talks about assaulting women, violates contracts, defrauds employees, brings repeated frivolous lawsuits, lies constantly, calls people rude names and is otherwise endlessly rude to them, makes decisions based on revenge, goes back on his word and is, at very least, racist adjacent. I don’t agree with all his politics and if I were asked to sit down to lunch with him I’d leave immediately.

    Nic (896fdf) — 7/31/2020 @ 9:39 pm

    No.

    Biden is definitely a “turd person”.

    It’s amazing to me, that Biden largely escapes criticism in his past support for segregation, racist statements, and his support to past Klan Keagle democrat in this cancel culture. Must be because of his party privilege due to being a Democrat.

    But, for me, he earned this “turd person” title for wrongly blaming the death of his wife and kids on the trucker to garner sympathy for his political ambition. F*ck Biden…that was beyond despicable.

    whembly (c30c83)

  164. @104

    Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to the continuance of the United States.

    To all that support Trump, you are the traitors. You are the ones that are burning the country down. You are the ones destroying the only viable opposition party. YOU ARE. No one else. Stop pointing fingers like your orange mamzer does. It’s on YOU. Evey lost seat, every lost judge, up and down the line. By insisting that we all bite the bullet and vote for a man who is so manifestly unfit for office that a bout of socialism seem s like a better choice, it’s on you.

    Trump may be an obstinate fool, but those who line up behind him are worse. I have no respect for anyone who wants Trump to continue as president. I would MUCH prefer that he dropped out, was impeached, had a stroke or was hit by lightning from a clear blue sky. But it is treason to support him for president. Stop it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/31/2020 @ 9:46 pm

    No. He’s not a clear and present danger to the US.

    We survived Obama… we can survive Trump. 😉

    whembly (c30c83)

  165. whembly,

    It’s good to see you back. You make the best arguments in favor of being a pragmatic Trump voter. I’m still on the fence, so I appreciate reasoned thoughts from both sides.

    norcal (a5428a)

  166. You should vote for Trump if you’re very old and don’t expect to live much longer and your retirement nest egg is in those stocks which caused the Dow to drop to 18,000 and then rise back up to 26,000 in the last four months.

    nk (1d9030)

Leave a Reply

Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear.


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.6493 secs.