Pulling U.S. Troops Out Of Germany: Some Will Come Home, Some Will Move To Other Parts Of Europe
[guest post by Dana]
Spurred on by President Donald Trump’s demand to pull troops out of Germany, the U.S. will bring about 6,400 forces home and shift about 5,600 to other countries in Europe, U.S. defense leaders said Wednesday, detailing a Pentagon plan that will cost billions of dollars and take years to complete.
The decision fulfills Trump’s announced desire to withdraw troops from Germany, largely due to its failure to spend enough on defense. A number of forces will go to Italy, and a major move would shift U.S. European Command headquarters and Special Operations Command Europe from Stuttgart, Germany, to Belgium.
Defense Secretary Mark Esper said some moves will begin in months and will leave about 24,000 troops in Germany. He said that while the decision was “accelerated” by Trump’s orders, the moves also promote larger strategic goals to deter Russia, reassure European allies and shift forces further east into the Black Sea and Baltic regions.
Trump says the reduction in troops is due to Germany failing to meet their financial obligations:
“We’re reducing the force because they’re not paying their bills. It’s very simple. They’re delinquent.” He added that he might rethink the decision to pull troops out of Germany “if they start paying their bills.”
Last year, Trump noted that Chancellor Angela Merkel had not paid Germany’s agreed-upon bill. Merkel claims that Germany is working toward the 2% figure:
Trump has frequently dressed down NATO counterparts and threatened to reduce U.S. military support if allies do not increase spending. Last year while in London, Trump singled out German Chancellor Angela Merkel for not meeting the 2% of GDP spending goal set in 2014.
“So we’re paying 4 to 4.3% when Germany’s paying 1 to 1.2%, at max 1.2%, of a much smaller GDP. That’s not fair,” Trump said in December. According to the NATO figures, the U.S. spends less than Trump noted, 3.42% of GDP on defense, while Germany now spends 1.38%, which is an increase of about 11% from 2018.
The reduction of troops in Germany will allow for an increased troop presence in Poland, which is something that Warsaw and Polish President Andrzej Duda have wanted. Trump and Duda have developed close ties, and back in June, when Trump hosted President Duda at the White House, he suggested that he would send some of the troops he planned to pull out of Germany to Poland.
One of the problems related to the move, and noted by Republicans, is the cost of such an undertaking (estimated by Esper to be in the range of “single-digit” billions of dollars). Also, there is the question of whether the move of troops would continue on even if Trump were to lose the election. Given that the election is around 100 days away, is this really the best time to take on a big move? And, most importantly, what about Russia?
A number of Republicans have addressed some of these concerns:
Members of Trump’s own political party have criticized the troop moves as a gift to Russia and a threat to U.S. national security. Twenty-two Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee sent a letter to Trump saying a reduced U.S. commitment to Europe’s defense would encourage Russian aggression.
Sen. Mitt Romney has gone a step further, making public his disapproval for the withdrawal. His statement is preceded by a reminder that
Romney offered an amendment to the FY21 NDAA aimed at preventing such a withdrawal and reaffirming support for Germany and our NATO allies. The amendment ultimately did not receive consideration on the Senate floor.
On the troop removal:
The plan outlined by the Administration today to remove thousands of U.S. troops from Germany is a grave error. It is a slap in the face at a friend and ally when we should instead be drawing closer in our mutual commitment to deter Russian and Chinese aggression. And it is a gift to Russia coming at a time when we just have learned of its support for the Taliban and reports of bounties on killing American troops. The move may temporarily play well in domestic politics, but its consequences will be lasting and harmful to American interests.
I hope people remember Romney’s insight into Russia and Obama’s subsequent poo-pooing him for his warnings. Oh, and this:
Old enough to remember when many on today’s pro-Trump right (correctly) dunked on the Obama Admin for ignoring Romney’s warnings about Russia
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (292df6) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:07 pmIs tearing up the strategy that’s kept peace in the western world for 70 years based on pique really a good idea?
Time123 (69b2fc) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:25 pmWith Poland being closer to Russia would the shifting troops to Poland be a better deterrent against Russian aggression?
Mattsky (55d339) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:26 pm“We’re reducing the force because they’re not paying their bills. It’s very simple. They’re delinquent.” He added that he might rethink the decision to pull troops out of Germany “if they start paying their bills.”
I think this is one of those instances where we can argue that President Trump is taking a principled stand but is sadly incapable of articulating it. He shouldn’t be accusing Germany of “not paying their bills,” he should be accusing them of not honoring their commitments. Even the Obama Administration was frustrated by Germany’s (and other nations’) refusal to meet their NATO-madated defense obligations. Donald Trump campaigned on scaling-back our overseas military presence, so whether the move is welcome or foolish we can’t claim to be surprised by it.
As far as Germany goes I don’t think Russia would be crazy enough to try to challenge them, especially since Mrs. Merkel’s government is one of their biggest customers for natural gas. Indeed, if we want to make a show of strength and unity against Putin, sending troops to Poland makes way more sense than having them in Germany. I know that historically bad things happen when Germany is left to their own defenses, but given the new world realities I’m not going to lose any sleep over our closing up some of our bases in Germany, even if Elvis served there.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:28 pmGreat essay at NRO from a couple of years back how NATO members’ — in particular Germany’s — reluctance to carry their own weight actually harms the efficiency of their own national defense as well as ours too. Read the essay, but here’s the concluding paragraph:
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:41 pmTheir commitment was to spend 2% by 2024.
Is it 2024 yet?
According to Bolton and others, Trump was so disrespectful, rude and belligerent in his conversations with Merkel (par for the course whenever he has to deal with women who aren’t hookers) that if the transcript or notes were to leak, it would lead to a diplomatic breach.
Just another abject failure of his fictional negotiating skills. He can’t negotiate anything except the price of a quickie.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:46 pm#3 — That was my first thought. Hard for me to see how moving U.S. troops closer to Russia is a “gift to Russia.”
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:46 pmThe decision fulfills Trump’s announced desire to withdraw troops from Germany, largely due to its failure to spend enough on defense.
Wellll, the energy/pipeline. etc., dealings w/Russia has to be a factor in this. It is sorta silly for American taxpayers to be financing troops to be parked there above and beyond NATO commitments, ‘defending’ a united Germany,[and/or banking and corporate interests], 75 YEARS after the end of WW2, whilst Deutschland’s 21st century quality of life, long surpassing distant aid from the Marshall Plan, has blossomed– and they do deals w/t very “adversary” America is supposed to be defending them from.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:52 pmPoland’s got an awesome flag. White represents the courage of the Polish. Red represents the blood of her heroes. Blue represents the loyalty of Poland’s allies.
—
Putin wouldn’t be able to so easily tear down our alliance with Germany, the Kurds, even eachother here at home, if those alliances were genuine. The cracks have been there for a long time. I don’t see how they get fixed but if someone can work that out they will be one of the greater leaders of western civilization.
Enter Joe Biden. 😶
Dustin (4237e0) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:53 pmThey’ll start the move at the end of January.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:58 pmMore than half are coming home.
And having a few troops a little closer is a small price to pay for sowing ill will and resentment among the alliance.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:58 pmI served in the US Army, in (West) Germany, under Reagan. Not *directly* under, you understand. Some very long ways under.
I met many Germans. I made a lot of German friends. And I was targeted by a large number of German strangers who wanted my ass as far from their homeland as possible. Thrown stones, and sprayed paint, and waved signs, and blared horns. I was luckily not among those blown up at a disco, or taking hostage from my car, or caught up in some sort of badger game. (My uncle, a “Bird Colonel”, was actually targeted with the latter technique. Stuff happened.)
A leader from (East) Germany who assembles a plurality of her East neighbors and including those of the West who always scorned those who helped guard them will have very little political incentive to spend much, if anything, cooperating with newer generations of my ilk. Depending on us, no doubt. Sharing the load? I’m not sure I see the political incentives for that stance.
pouncer (b0e023) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:58 pmpar for the course whenever he has to deal with women who aren’t hookers
What makes you think he’s polite, respectful, and peaceful when dealing with hookers?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 12:59 pmHard for me to see how moving U.S. troops closer to Russia is a “gift to Russia.”
Easier to kill?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:00 pmLOL
“There are few virtues the Poles lack, and few mistakes they have avoided.” – Churchill
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:01 pmlarge number of German strangers who wanted my ass as far from their homeland as possible
I dealt with some Germans during a month in Hamburg in Summer of ’89. They were uniformly convinced that US troops were there to repress Germans and to prevent unification. They thought that Reagan was particularly hypocritical, and that the Wall would never come down.
Three months later, it was down. I bet that this changed zero minds.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:03 pmPoland’s biggest mistake was where they put their country.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:04 pmMaybe. I’m not saying it’s good or bad. I’m saying that it’s a huge change to a system that has worked pretty well since 1945 and that should be thought through carefully.
Time123 (306531) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:04 pmProfessional courtesy.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:07 pmThis is just more grandstanding by Mittens. In case he’s not noticed, Germany doesn’t have a country with Russia, and Russia isn’t about to launch WW III by attacking NATO. So, its unclear what’s he’s jabbering about. We don’t make US Foreign and Defense policy based on whether its a “Gift to Putin” or not. We’re moving out about 11 thousand of which only 6, 000 will be coming home to the USA. Precisely how this, in contr
This reminds me of Syria where Romney was screeching about “the betrayal of our noble allies” which of course, no one, including Mittens has talked about since.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:07 pmShould be Germany doesn’t have a country to country border with Russia. Btw, Sasse has weighed in as well. I wonder if they are getting paid indirectly to lobby for Germany.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:08 pmTheir commitment was to spend 2% by 2024.
Germany has been making scant progress to that commitment, which they like to downgrade to a mere “goal,” over the past five years, and now with the COVID-caused economic slump they are looking for an escape valve. We could all pretend that in the end they will miraculously reach the objective, or we can face reality and start to make alternate arrangements. I think in this particular case the Trump Administration has it right.
I would love to hear what Robert Gates, who served as Secretary of Defense for both George W. Bush and Barack Obama, thinks of this. He took a pretty strong stand against European freeloading in NATO when he was in office.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:12 pmVoting to Remove our President and weakening him by having a useless trial (which mittens wanted to go on forever) was also a “Gift to Putin”. Hard to standup to Putin when Romney is stabbing you in the back. In any case, Mittens is helping Joe Biden out by constantly attacking Trump. Does he think Biden will be some super-hawk, or is this concern over Germany just more Romney deceit?
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:12 pmObviously we have far, far fewer troops there now, and no longer guarding a frontier that might blow up at any moment probably means those that remain are a lot less intrusive than they were in the bad old days.
IIRC, there’s only one combat brigade there now.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:15 pmI don’t see how they get fixed but if someone can work that out they will be one of the greater leaders of western civilization.
Enter Joe Biden. 😶
Oh Lord, I can’t wait to see Secretary of State Ben Rhodes bungle this initiative too.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:15 pmPress is stupidly saying Sec of Defense contradicted Trump’s early statement on troop withdrawals. Evidently, there can only be ONE Reason to do something. Trump makes final decision not Sec of State. Troop withdrawals were recommended by DoD based on military reasons, Trump approved for many reasons including Germany’s unwillingness to pay.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:15 pmIt is easy to contradict Trump.
1) Say something that supports Trump today.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:18 pm2) Wait
What Border? You mean Germany’s border with Poland? Poland’s border with Belarus?
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:19 pmThen he’s a blithering idiot for screwing up the explanation so badly.
Time123 (306531) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:22 pmVoting to Remove our President and weakening him by having a useless trial (which mittens wanted to go on forever) was also a “Gift to Putin”. Hard to standup to Putin when Romney is stabbing you in the back. In any case, Mittens is helping Joe Biden out by constantly attacking Trump. Does he think Biden will be some super-hawk, or is this concern over Germany just more Romney deceit?
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:12 pm
Time123 (306531) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:22 pmBefore, we had 35,000 men in Germany. We’ll soon have 24,000. No one is going to stop millions of Russian soldiers with 11,000 men. Us forces in Germany only small portion of US military, and small portion of NATO. IOW, no concrete difference in geo-political terms. But its impossible get morons to understand this. IRC, same idiots were screeching about withdrawing a couple hundred troops in Northern Syria. This was supposedly going to destroy the Middle East or give Syria to Putin or some stupid nonsense.
Hysterical women will be hysterical. CF: Lindsey and mIttens.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:23 pmMaybe he shouldn’t have abused his power by using military aid to blackmail Ukraine into announcing a baseless investigation of a political rival?
Time123 (306531) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:23 pmTrump hater finds way to criticize Trump for 1,000th time in a row. Surprising.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:25 pmThen he’s a blithering idiot for screwing up the explanation so badly.
This is the hallmark of the Trump Administration: even when he does the right thing he struggles to articulate his policy so that it is understandable and defensible.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:30 pmYou’re the one who said he screwed up the explanation.
Time123 (69b2fc) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:33 pmI don’t disagree in principle with holding people to their commitments. On the other hand the idea of a fixed quota, disconnected from any idea of what the alliance’s specific needs are, seems kind of dumb. The German shortfall is about 35B euros per year. What is the alliance going to get if Germany spends that extra money? Trump has no interest in such questions, for him the only thing that matters is the number itself.
More importantly, throwing hissy fits and acting like a cretin is not the way the leader of the free world should deal with one of our most important allies. The matter should be negotiated in an atmosphere that doesn’t alarm our allies and encourage our adversaries.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:33 pmThe border between West Germany and East Germany…
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:36 pmmittens hates dogs
mg (8cbc69) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:42 pmI thought you had nothing. Thanks for proving it.
rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:45 pm@10-
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:50 pmThis will never happen. This is multi-billion dollar, multi-year project that is easily reversible.
Trump Appears to Defend Russia Arming the Taliban Against U.S. Troops
President Donald Trump appeared to excuse Russia providing weapons to the Taliban, saying that the United States once did the same thing. In an interview with Axios on HBO, Trump dismissed intelligence that Russia offered bounties to the Taliban to kill American troops—and then went on to cast doubt on claims that Russia supplies arms to the insurgents. The former head of U.S. forces in Afghanistan has said clearly and on the record that Russia does indeed smuggle weapons across the Tajik border to the Taliban. Asked about whether he believes that is the case, Trump said: “Well, we supplied weapons when they were fighting Russia too. The Taliban, in Afghanistan… I’m just saying, we did that too.” Pressed on whether he has even heard that Russia arms the Taliban, Trump responded: “I have heard that but, again, it’s never reached my desk.” ……
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:54 pmI thought you were illiterate. Thanks for proving it.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 2:02 pmAnd rcocean is complaining that Trump’s the one being stabbed in the back.
They would a US President say this when we’re discussing people killed US troops? Why would this come out of your mouth? I want you to picture John Kerry saying that. That’s how this sounds to me.
Dustin (4237e0) — 7/29/2020 @ 2:22 pmFFS, they are talking about moving a major command to Chievre? Dear God. There are no facilities there. (I mean, not actually none, but basically none). There’s no housing, no hospital, no school. The BX is minuscule. There are hardly any buildings. I don’t even know that they have a proper command bunker. Apparently they renovated the commissary recently, but Jesus Christ, it’s a nothing base.
Why would they do that? It would cost far far far more to build the necessary facilities there than it would just to keep them in Stuttgart, which is already sufficiently built out with the necessary facilities..
Not only that, but spreading out our eastern forces like that could weaken our response ability in the eastern hemisphere. I’m not against moving some of our people into Poland, but drawing down our forces that much over all seems likely to weaken our international position.
Nic (896fdf) — 7/29/2020 @ 2:34 pm@40 I agree.
The problem with the rationale behind this decision, that Germany isn’t giving 2% of its GDP to NATO, is that the three countries that will get command centers, army and air force base–Belgium, Poland, Italy–give a lower percentage of their GDP to NATO than Germany does. Also, it will spread out the troops too thinly, making it more difficult for them to respond rapidly and effectively in the event of a conflict.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 7/29/2020 @ 2:42 pm28. rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/29/2020 @ 1:19 pm
Poland does have aborder with Russia.
A part if Russia that is notcontinguous with the rest of Russia.
You see, when afterr world War II< the Soviet Union took half of East Prussia, (the rest going to Poland) and annexed it, Stalin did not add it to Lithuania, but incorporated it into Russia itself.
So, after 1991, it became a non-ccntinguous part of Russia on the other side of Lithuania. It;s a somewhat military area
Sammy Finkelman (fe6a9b) — 7/29/2020 @ 2:54 pm@45
Poland is right at 2%.
Belgium is under 1% though…
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 3:12 pm@37. The border between West Germany and East Germany…
Sorta like the wall between East Berlin and West Berlin? You need a new checkpoint, Charlie.
Try Google Maps.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/29/2020 @ 3:31 pmThe German shortfall is about 35B euros per year. What is the alliance going to get if Germany spends that extra money?
Read the National Review Online essay from a couple of years back. It makes a compelling case that German parsimony allows Berlin to have both a flabby defense and foreign policy.
And that in turn, hurts Washington’s ability to be effective in Europe:
With respect to Gawain’s Ghost’s point that lots of other European countries, including many others which host U.S. bases, spend less than 2% GDP, that’s absolutely correct. But Germany is the economic power of Europe, so I think it is fair to hold them to a higher standard — at least initially — than we would hold other nations. If you are trying to implement reform in college football, by way of example, you would expect Alabama and Ohio State to get their act together before you would expect the same of Wyoming and New Mexico State.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 4:03 pmWell, it makes some completely unsupported assertions (which you quoted) but it doesn’t say why 2% is the sine qua non or why 1.38% is a priori inadequate.
The defense budgets of NATO’s European members are already over three times Russia’s, even without the US and Canada. If you also include Canada but not the US, it’s almost four times Russia. So it’s unclear that one should really say the Europeans aren’t spending enough to defend themselves. Counting bullets doesn’t tell the whole story, but the alliance’s raw margin of superiority over Russia is massive, even without our even more massively massive awesomeness.
One might think that the additional margin of superiority if everyone met the 2% target would only be relevant for projecting power outside Europe, which is something that might be very helpful for us, but which they didn’t necessarily sign up for.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:01 pmWell, it makes some completely unsupported assertions (which you quoted) but it doesn’t say why 2% is the sine qua non or why 1.38% is a priori inadequate.
European nations might have raised these concerns before agreeing to the 2% figure, and perhaps they could have negotiated for and received a lesser commitment. I get your point that Trump is as usual acting like a petulant child, but again I remind you that past administrations have also grappled with the issue that our friends in Europe rely on us far too much to fund NATO operations. This is still going to be the case long after Donald Trump has departed the scene, so if any U.S. President makes the point to Europe that there are consequences for not meeting their financial obligations then I am completely fine with that.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:39 pmIs it weird to anyone else that this gets announced just a few days after talking with Uncle Vlad? You know, where he didn’t bother to bring up that “Bounties for Bodies” thing?
Nah, nothing to see here, let’s talk about alien lizard people demon dream rape.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:48 pmThis was brought up by Trump back in December, and apparently has actively been in the works since June, Klink, so I dunno. But, that Trump didn’t ask Putin about the bounty situation, speaks for itself.
Dana (292df6) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:54 pm@51 It’s only an issue if you think the point is actually defense of the nations we have people in. Yes, defense is a thing that does, but really it’s about power and influence.
Nic (896fdf) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:55 pmIt’s a good question why so many of the Euros agreed to a target they had no intention of meeting.
The fact that it’s not – and never was – binding probably had something to do with it.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 5:56 pmThe fact that it’s not – and never was – binding probably had something to do with it.
And neither was our commitment to station troops in Germany until the end of time, as far as that goes.
JVW (ee64e4) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:10 pm55… yes, too much to expect Euros to do the right thing… the thing they’d agreed to do.
Shameful.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:15 pmI see more gnashing of leftwing activist teeth… carry on.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:17 pmYou guys are over-anal-izing* this. Putin says go there, and Trump goes; Putin says do this, and Trump does it. It’s that simple.
*(Threw that in for Corporal Hentai in return for his invaluable contributions to every discussion.)
nk (1d9030) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:24 pm“I see more gnashing of leftwing activist teeth… carry on.”
Hey, I’d be all for a reduction in force, but that’s not what’s happening here. It’s gonna cost a ton of money to rebuild the infrastructure being abandoned in Germany. But hey, deficits don’t matter, right?
Davethulhu (eadaad) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:26 pm59… last night teh gerbil let him down…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:31 pmLike I said ….
nk (1d9030) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:37 pmYoure anatomically minded, i think lambrakis was handled the right way.
Narciso (7404b5) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:39 pmMerkel brought a million invaders into the country, that hate the jews with a passion,,some kind of irony.
Narciso (7404b5) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:42 pmOf course the nodstream has merkel by her undergarments, headed by an ex stasi?? Operative
Narciso (7404b5) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:46 pmAngela is ten times the man Trump wishes he could be.
nk (1d9030) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:50 pm‘And neither was our commitment to station troops in Germany until the end of time, as far as that goes.’
Naziating, ain’t it.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/29/2020 @ 6:58 pmSince this is related to Putin…
America First? More Like America Whenever.
Trump’s attitude toward Russia shows he never meant America First.
And Trump only made it worse when he claimed moral equivalence between the Soviet occupation and our current presence in Afghanistan.
Paul Montagu (dead92) — 7/29/2020 @ 7:04 pmIt’s Trump first, America second (and sometimes Putin second and America third).
That, or Trump is one-tenth the woman that Merkel is.
Paul Montagu (dead92) — 7/29/2020 @ 7:06 pmPaul, my daughter and her mother just came back from ten days’ vacation in Washington and Oregon. They flew to Seattle and flew out of Portland, driving to, and stopping at, the places in-between. Their verdict: Beautiful place, nice people.
nk (1d9030) — 7/29/2020 @ 7:19 pm62… good to see a positive turn in your proclivities.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/29/2020 @ 7:44 pmnk, they traveled at the perfect time of year, and there a lot of beautiful spots. Mrs. Montagu and I hiked at this place last Sunday, and the views are world-class.
Paul Montagu (dead92) — 7/29/2020 @ 7:50 pmThe people are generally nice. Liberal, but nice. Funny thing, if you’re sociable and courteous toward them, they’ll be that way with you.
I may have read too many WW I and WW II books, but I can’t imagine moving 10,000 troops here and 25,000 there making any real difference. Battles like Kursk had a hundred times those numbers.
Fred (02ecbd) — 7/29/2020 @ 8:38 pmHe’s transitioning to greatness. Give him time.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/29/2020 @ 8:49 pm4.
Once or twice can be poor articulation, but he’s asserted this falsehood, which just happens to serve the plot of his self-aggrandizing reality show more than the truth does, dozens of times. That’s lying. Just like his oft-repeated claim that his tariffs are paid by the Chinese, and his insistence on continually referring to the so-called 1917 Pandemic. Lies.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 7/30/2020 @ 2:17 amPutin going down swinging,
nk (1d9030) — 7/30/2020 @ 2:33 amThe last drop wringing,
From his Manchurian Quisling,
Who from a tire is swinging,
Peeling bananas with his feet.
http://americanthinker.com/articles/2020/07/bidens_civil_war.html
mg (8cbc69) — 7/30/2020 @ 3:04 amThe dinner bell is ringing
come and get it