Patterico's Pontifications

7/21/2020

Poll Shows Race Is Now at the Forefront of Americans’ Minds — But Is That a Good Thing?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



“Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity” — speaker on race whom I will identify at the end of the post.

The Washington Post reports:

In other signs of substantial shifts in views on race, more voters see racial bias as a feature of American society and support protests aimed at addressing it. Nearly 60% in the survey said that Black people face discrimination, and just over half said so of Hispanics, about double the shares from 2008. Support has also grown for two of the public responses to concerns about inequality: the Black Lives Matter movement and professional athletes’ practice of kneeling during the national anthem.

I’m not quite sure what any of these numbers mean — what does it mean to say black people face discrimination? How often, of what sort, from whom, suffered by whom? — but there has undoubtedly been a shift. In a country in which Robin DiAngelo’s book “White Fragility” has become a best seller, making DiAngelo a rich white woman who is here to tell you how you are a racist because you are white, there has clearly been a change in public attitudes. The topic of race is very high in the consciousness of every American.

That makes Robin DiAngelo very happy. DiAngelo’s message, encapsulating by the headline of an interview with her, is: White people, it’s time to realize you’re white. And that matters:

In these training sessions she runs for a variety ]o] organizations (including KUOW), she has participants go around and state their race. She says this exercise can be jarring for whites.

“Immediately it puts white people out of our racial comfort, because we are rarely ever asked to identify our race, and we certainly have never been taught that it’s relevant or has any meaning,” DiAngelo said.

White people not having to identify themselves as white is harmful because it reinforces the idea that “somebody has a race, but not me,” she said. “We’re individuals, but they’re always members of their group.”

As the quote at the head of the post says: “Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity.” DiAngelo didn’t say it, but you can hear the words coming out of her mouth, can’t you?

The question is: is this is a good thing? It is healthy? I know that, to DiAngelo, merely to ask the question reveals my racism. After all, as John McWhorter tells us in his scathing review of “White Fragility” linked above, DiAngelo provides a list of things that “thou shalt not utter” (McWhorter’s characterization of DiAngelo’s position) which include, among other phrases, the following:

I know people of color.

I marched in the sixties.

You are judging me.

You don’t know me.

You are generalizing.

I disagree.

If you think McWhorter is exaggerating, he’s not. The phrase “I disagree” shows up in training materials on DiAngelo’s own site, as one of a list of phrases that white people say (also including “Some people just find offense where there is none” and “You misunderstood me” that reveal that the white person uttering them is really thinking things like this: “My unexamined perspective is equal to people of color’s” or “I am superior.”

So yes, I am not allowed to say “I disagree” — and yet, I disagree.

I think we should pursue an ideal of colorblindness — the same ideal that characterized all civil rights struggles on behalf of blacks until the 1970s. The same ideal that wiped out slavery and Jim Crow. The ideal pursued by Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King, Jr.

I do not believe we can ignore the fact that there is racism. You would find me among the nearly 60% cited in the poll above who believe that “black people face discrimination.” I don’t see it as the single most defining issue for black people, and I don’t see racism in the justice system as systemic any more than I see the disparities in the same system concerning males to be rooted in systemic sexism. But it exists.

Yes, racism exists. But our ideal should be that it doesn’t matter. Race itself is not real; it is a social construct which misdescribes most people, whose ancestors often include a wide mixture of people from diverse and various backgrounds. It is not the foundation of identity. Yes, race matters, all too often — but it shouldn’t, and in an ideal world, the one we ought to strive for, it won’t matter.

I know that there are people who disagree. People like “White Fragility” author Robin DiAngelo — and people like the person who was quoted at the top of this article, who said: “Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity.” Perhaps now is the appropriate time to reveal who said that…

(If you’re reading this post from the main page, click “more” to reveal the answer…)

The speaker is notorious white supremacist Richard Spencer:

“The alt-right is in a way conservatives who don’t have anything to conserve anymore,” Spencer told the crowd of mostly DC reporters, now assembled in a nearby hotel lounge. Lamenting the decay and degeneracy of modern America, he decried as “total hokum nonsense” the idea that America’s Founding Fathers thought all races were created equal. “Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity,” he said, flanked by a vaguely Star Wars-looking alt-right logo of his own creation.

Here is Ryan Long making the same points I just made, but much more effectively, because he is funny. It’s one of the best things I have seen in ages.

208 Responses to “Poll Shows Race Is Now at the Forefront of Americans’ Minds — But Is That a Good Thing?”

  1. she has participants go around and state their race

    Answer: the human race.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  2. Balkanizing society by focusing on our differences instead of our commonalities.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  3. In ot

    her signs of substantial shifts in views on race, more voters see racial bias as a feature of American society

    This is not because of personal experience, or tales heard personally, but because of all this recent propaganda.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3)

  4. I’m not sure what to write. Its been 55 years since the Civil Rights Act. Affirmative action has been in place, along with various state/federal/local quotas and set asides for at least 40 years. And all my lifetime anyone speaking/writing a racial or ethnic slur in public has been forced to apologize publicly or been punished, or been fired/cancelled whatever for the last 30 years. So, the whole “black people are oppressed” concept is puzzling to me.

    We’ve gotten to the point where black people are faking “hate crimes” to get attention and sympathy. And people are talking about “systematic racism” despite no one knowing what the hell it is. We even have people like Mitt Romney (mr. six percent) running around saying “Black Lives Matter” and calling other white people racists.

    So, its hard to take any of it seriously, and it makes me wonder what is REALLY behind all this current uproar. I would guess its about defeating Donald Trump.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  5. Oh man, the Ryan Long video is comedy gold. I want so badly to toss this up on my Facebook wall, but I’ve sworn off engaging in politics in that venue.

    In addition to pushing her noxiously horrendous ideas to spineless corporate mushminds and to the reading public, Robin DiAngelo now has a faculty appointment at the University of Washington College of Education, so she’s helping train the next generation of teachers who will shovel this bullshit into impressionable young minds. Thus the hustle perpetuates itself.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  6. I didn’t find the video funny, probably because it’s uncomfortably true.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  7. We are close to the same age, and likely internalized similar values about color-blindness being the ideal that people should practice, and that society should cultivate, while we were growing up.

    While color-blindness is (IMO) the only defensible approach in principle, in practice it asks us to ignore a lot of imperfections in the world, and in the past.

    In other words, it’s probably too easy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. I disagree’?

    How about ‘work hard, be nice’?

    KIPP retiring its slogan, Work Hard, Be Nice, is not meaningful from the standpoint of wordsmithing a tagline, but it is a grave concern to us for the reasons they have announced for this retirement: KIPP leaders announced they believe the slogan “ignores the significant effort required to dismantle systemic racism” because Being Nice “places value on being compliant and submissive,” and Work Hard “supports the illusion of meritocracy, and does not align with our vision of students being free to create the future they want.”

    We are part of a large group of alumni who were there at KIPP’s beginning as students. Work Hard, Be Nice resonated with our parents, as they felt they had found a true education partner to help instill the skills, knowledge and virtues they wanted us to learn. For our families and us, it meant that the things they valued most: work ethic, kindness and empathy would be at the heart of our education….

    ….. There is no such thing as the perfect list of virtues we can pass along to the next generation, considering preferences and family traditions create different priorities. But when we reject teaching these virtues outright, and at the most basic level of putting forth one’s best effort and following the Golden Rule (treat other people how you want to be treated), all in the name of eliminating racist dogma from our schools, it is time to close the laptop, stop, take a deep breath, and remember who and what is at the core of any school’s work: the children, their parents and the commitments the school has made to its families.

    And for what it’s worth, since when is being nice the same thing as being submissive? And if educators truly believe meritocracy is a myth, then how are they motivating their students to do any work whatsoever? As students of color from low income communities who were already facing a myriad of struggles, working hard taught us to persevere through any challenge, and being nice actually helped shape our social and emotional competence. It is this lesson of being nice that compels us to stand up with conviction for the current students who are in jeopardy of losing this valuable life lesson.“

    Opinion: KIPP should keep its slogan ‘Work Hard, Be Nice’ — values that counter racism not contribute to it

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Opinion-KIPP-should-keep-its-slogan-Work-15415257.php
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  9. Poll Shows Race Is Now at the Forefront of Americans’ Minds — But Is That a Good Thing?

    It is for Trump:

    ‘White Americans are a racial or ethnic group of Americans who identify as and are perceived to be white people. White Americans (including White Hispanics) constitute the historical and current majority of the people living in the United States, with 72% of the population identifying as white in the 2010 United States Census.’ -source, wiki

    When Plagiarist JoeyBee bows to pressure and does his ‘John-McCain-Sarah-Palin-Hail-Mary’ and goes for a black woman running mate, he’s toast. ‘Whitey’ checked the black box in 2008 and again in 2016. And a woman- at least by popular vote- in 2016. Given JoeyBee’s age, frailty and gaffe-prone mental instability, ain’t no way Americans are going to put some bossy black woman a heart beat away from the Oval.

    Joy Reid, On Her First Nightly MSNBC Show, Asks Joe Biden If He’ll Commit To Picking A Black Woman As His Running Mate source – yahoo.com

    Today ‘The Silent Majority’ see and endure a higher percentage of ‘angry blacks’ on their TeeVees and their interweb gadgets than actually live in America. Shades of 1968– ‘b-tch, b-tch, b-tch.’

    So go black, JoeyBee…

    Make that burnt toast.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. As a proud descendant of the first homo sapiens in Europe who, among other things, invented democracy, medicine, history, and the eight-note musical scale, I kind of consider myself above the fray.

    nk (1d9030)

  11. Seriously, my daughter is “at that age”. I told her (in pretty much these words) that a white person feeling guilty about his so-called “white privilege” is like a bird feeling guilty about its wings. Of Course I got resistance back! But at least I planted an idea that didn’t come from Tik Tok.

    nk (1d9030)

  12. You had slaves, from cyrenaica probably.i know 2200 hundred years ago

    Narciso (7404b5)

  13. Great post.

    The 40%-60% divide is interesting. I see at least one commenter who fits in the 40%.

    DRJ (aede82)

  14. I told her (in pretty much these words) that a white person feeling guilty about his so-called “white privilege” is like a bird feeling guilty about its wings.

    Or a Fifth Avenue nancy-boy feeling guilty about his trust fund?

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. @9. typo- make that 2008 and again in 2012, not 2016.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. “human race”

    Yeah, I do this all the time. Unfortunately, it is counter-indicated in the practice of medicine. Some drugs (glimeperide vs metformin)only work, or are more effective, for certain genotypes. Just as some diseases (sickle-cell) “prefer” certain genotypes. Does Covid19 prefer the hispanic segment of humanity, or is that segment just more numerous?

    felipe (023cc9)

  17. So, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the BLM movement and more generally about what my black friends are asking for.

    I’m old enough to remember what the world was like before the Civil Rights laws of the 60’s and the social integration that happened in the 70’s and 80’s. The school I attended for 1st and 2nd grade was segregated, if only by housing covenants — blacks in Pasadena were unable to live in certain areas due to now-unenforceable deed restrictions.

    And yes, MUCH changed then. There is no comparison between the civil rights of blacks in 1960 with those of 2020. But…

    I’m Irish. The history of my ancestors in Ireland (held for several hundred years as serfs on their own land by conquerors), and later in America is not pretty. It’s not as bad as chattel slavery, but it still isn’t pretty and it took far too long to change. Coming to America, the Irish were the social equals of the freed slaves and Chinese, which is to say not very high on the list. Several of my ancestors worked side-by-side with freed slaves on the Union Pacific, ending up in San Francisco.

    But things changed. By my father’s generation, the Irish were becoming accepted and I have uncles who were judges, JPL executives and Marine One pilots.

    Today, I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that I will be treated by the system fairly (maybe not WELL, but fairly). I am confident of this.

    America’s racial problems will not be over until black Americans can also be confident of this. They aren’t now. Will we get there in my remaining lifetime? I don’t know. But THIS is what today’s movement is about, and it’s not an unreasonable request.

    Yes, there are those who would pile on the demands, but that’s not really what it’s about. Just the simple confidence that they will be treated fairly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Also, Yeah, LOL! That video is FUNNY, Outstandingly timed comedy.

    felipe (023cc9)

  19. White Reparations: blacks owe ‘Whitey’ $$$ for all the free rides out of Africa. ‘Course in the 21st century, a simple thank you is bankable enough to suffice. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. ‘…professional athletes’ practice of kneeling during the national anthem…’

    Millionaires on their knees: Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/21/2020 @ 9:36 am

    All* it says about you, is that this is not a joking matter to you.

    There are jokes that use the name of Jesus, that make many laugh out loud, but it is not a joking matter to me. It is a good thing that God is good.

    *”All” such a small word to contain such breadth of meaning.

    felipe (023cc9)

  22. There is systemic unfairness and unfair incidents, Kevin M. Most activists and some blacks see unfairness in our system rather than instances of unfair treatment. I see it the opposite way. That difference in viewpoints is enormous and IMO insurmountable.

    DRJ (aede82)

  23. Just as some diseases (sickle-cell) “prefer” certain genotypes.

    Sickle cell anemia is protection against malaria. I have its cousin, thalassemia minor, and I need to tell doctors I’m Greek when they get my blood test results back so they don’t send me for a check for a bleeding ulcer. I don’t consider it a disease, only a trait, like fair skin for people who live in sunless climates and dark skin for people who live in sunny ones.

    Does Covid19 prefer the hispanic segment of humanity, or is that segment just more numerous?
    I read that it doesn’t like Type O blood. Something like people with Type O are 18% fewer than everybody else in the number of Covid-19 cases. What’s the percentage of Type O blood in Hispanics?

    nk (1d9030)

  24. But this isnt about that, it is an attack oon all the fundamental institutions in this country.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  25. Distribution of blood type in America by race.

    DRJ (aede82)

  26. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-news-media-becomes-fluent-in-newspeak-11595284117

    Part of George Orwell’s genius lay in his insight that manipulation of language was essential to the revolutionary project. If you can command popular compliance with a lexicon that reorders—or even inverts—the widely understood meaning of political terms, you can remake society as much as you can with any law, mandate or act of force. Thought is constrained by the limits of language, and so language becomes a vital tool for placing limits on thought….

    It is not just revolutionary. It’s any time anyone has to say they are abiding by some principles but don;t really want to.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3)

  27. Allahpundit likes the Ryan Long clip too…

    Dave (1bb933)

  28. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/21/2020 @ 10:08 am

    One word: Assimilation

    I will argue that assimilation leads to acceptance. All communities require some assimilation in order to be accorded acceptance within it, which is mitigated by its capacity for toleration.

    felipe (023cc9)

  29. “ Take the Smithsonian story. The museum became the latest institution to attempt to combat racism by pledging itself to “antiracism,” a quack sub-theology that in a self-clowning trick straight out of Catch-22 seeks to raise awareness about ignorant race stereotypes by reviving and amplifying them.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture created a graphic on “Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture” that declared the following white values: “the scientific method,” “rational, linear thinking,” “the nuclear family,” “children should have their own rooms,” “hard work is the key to success,” “be polite,” “written tradition,” and “self-reliance.” White food is “steak and potatoes; bland is best,” and in white justice, “intent counts.”

    The astute observer will notice this graphic could equally have been written by white supremacist Richard Spencer or History of White People parodist Martin Mull. It seems impossible that no one at one of the country’s leading educational institutions noticed this messaging is ludicrously racist, not just to white people but to everyone (what is any person of color supposed to think when he or she reads that self-reliance, politeness, and “linear thinking” are white values?).…..

    ….. Before blind auditions, women made up less than 6 percent of orchestras; today they’re half of the New York Philharmonic. But because the change did not achieve similar results with Black and Hispanic musicians, the blind audition must now be “altered to take into fuller account artists’ backgrounds and experiences.” This completes a decades-long circle where the left/liberal project went from working feverishly to expunge racial stereotypes in an effort to level the playing field, to denouncing itself for ever having done so.

    This would be less absurd if the effort were not being led in an extraordinary number of cases by extravagantly-paid white consultants like DiAngelo and Howard Ross, a “social justice advocate” whose company billed the federal government $5 million since 2006 to teach basically the same course on “whiteness” to agencies like NASA, the Treasury, the FDIC, and others.”

    https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-left-is-now-the-right
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  30. the same publications that said the tea party was astroturf, tell us susan rosemberg’s outfit is legit, could we stop pretending,

    narciso (7404b5)

  31. that’s sophistry, the left has been pushing to abolish every aspect of traditional institutions for 60 years if not longer, the fact that there is a response like the moral majority or the broader christian right, but then they push back with peaple for the american war, the aclu, every other prog prong, against society on the part,

    narciso (7404b5)

  32. Sickle cell anemia is protection against malaria.

    Someone once said “it is an ill wind that blows no one good.” It is interesting how nature competes over the ,limited resources available.

    What’s the percentage of Type O blood in Hispanics?

    Type O positive, or O negative? A simple search regurgitated the following:

    53% of Hispanics in the US are believed to have O Positive as their blood type, making them the largest ethnicity with this type of blood. Caucasians are more likely to be A Positive than any other ethnic group. source

    felipe (023cc9)

  33. The information about blood type distribution within the Hispanic population tacitly informs the reader that looking at the genotype of a people is a more reliable place to search for information than their phenotype.

    felipe (023cc9)

  34. interesting rod dreher wrote 2 hours ago, the Google may be censoring conservatives websites, since his name/site had “disappeared” from google search. I had the same problem with Patterio this AM. I put in his name, and got nothing other than stuff from 2015 about a legal dispute and copy right infringement. Nothing giving this site’s address. Not even a twitter account. Tried it again, and its all back. As is Dreher’s site in the Google search.

    Interesting. is this Google trying out a future ban on the center-right?

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  35. “Interesting. is this Google trying out a future ban on the center-right?”

    No.

    Davethulhu (05bf21)

  36. probably, so doxxing is cool now, if it’s the right person, just like if a swat team showed up to your house to serve a warrant,

    narciso (7404b5)

  37. I was warning my fellow Conservatives about the centralization of power in Google’s search engine back in 2011 but all I got in response was the usual “Muh Free Enterprise”. Even today, the R Politican’s seem stupidly blind to the impact Google/Facebook/Twitter are having on poltical discourse and what News people read and see. Of course, old hacks like McConnell probably don’t know what the “intertubes” is, and don’t care since it doesn’t involve $$ from the Chamber of Commerce. While people like mIttens probably hope Big-tech censors all those “racists” and “troublemakers”.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  38. @35, i typed in ‘patterico’ and the first hit was the link to the main page. 2nd was his twitter act.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  39. Also, my response “Type O positive, or O negative?,” betrays my music training, where I am accustomed to A sharp, A flat, and A natural. Type O is always positive.

    felipe (023cc9)

  40. No.
    Davethulhu (05bf21) — 7/21/2020 @ 10:56 am

    HAHAHAHA! Don’t get me wrong, I would have laughed just at hard if you had answered “yes.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  41. ….. Before blind auditions, women made up less than 6 percent of orchestras; today they’re half of the New York Philharmonic. But because the change did not achieve similar results with Black and Hispanic musicians, the blind audition must now be “altered to take into fuller account artists’ backgrounds and experiences.”

    Well, that’s just the nature of the classical music beast. It’s so stylized that a musician who plays well in any other genre will not have that symphony orchestra level edge. Women who auditioned for the orchestra straight out of the conservatory did fine; black and Hispanics musicians who could play jazz or mariachi or samba with any artistry not so fine.

    nk (1d9030)

  42. this is what gangster government looks like,

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/ellison-lends-omar-a-hand.php

    narciso (7404b5)

  43. So much for Dr. King’s ‘I Have A Dream’ Speech. Maybe his statue will be the next one torn down by Antifa, BLM, the Far Leftie anarchists or Pelosi.
    Recall Barack Hussein Obama was sold to US – the American people – as the ‘Uniter’, the ‘post racial president’, the ‘no red states/blue states president’. Largely covered up and kept hidden from the American people was Obama’s longtime relationships with racist Reverend (?) Jeremiah Wright (and his Black Liberation Theology racist church Trinity United Church of Christ), racist Louis Farrakhan the leader of the racist black national Nation of Islam and the Reverend(?) Al ‘Tawana Brawley’ Sharpton. Recall Rev Al was President Obama’s go-to-guy on matters of race. See https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/08/22/how_sharpton_became_obama039s_go-to_man_on_race_339505.html and THE TRAYVON HOAX: Unmasking the Witness Fraud that Divided America https://www.thetrayvonhoax.com/
    And apparently, you missed or forgot the following. Recall Reverend(?) Wright’s hate filled comments about America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPR5jnjtLo Recall Obama amazingly claimed that he never heard Wright make such statements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFKDICn-Mu4
    And recall, that despite having the opportunity and privilege of going to American elite universities (Occidental, Princeton, Columbia & Harvard), neither Obama or his wife Michelle – to put it mildly, ever cared much for America. Recall, Michelle’s comment, ‘… for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country …’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjLTH7Daj7Y
    Recall also, the ‘Uniter’s’ comment, just before the 2008 prez election, when Obama stated, ‘We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKxDdxzX0kI
    (See also, AMERICA’S RULING CLASS – The Perils of Revolution (2010) from American Spectator – https://spectator.org/americas-ruling-class/ and THE COVID COUP – And How to Unlock Ourselves (7/17 /20) by Angelo Codevilla from The American Mind. https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/ )
    Obama: 2 Standards, Don Imus v. Reverend Wright https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0pNjhZEqdQ
    There is such a DOUBLE STANDARD – that there no longer are any standards.
    Black Lives Matter? Last weekend in Chicago: 25 people were shot Monday after 12 people were killed over the weekend https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-shootings-25-people-were-shot-monday-after-12-people-were-killed-over-the-weekend/ar-BB170Vus
    Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (a1521c)

  44. Well, that’s just the nature of the classical music beast. It’s so stylized that a musician who plays well in any other genre will not have that symphony orchestra level edge. Women who auditioned for the orchestra straight out of the conservatory did fine; black and Hispanics musicians who could play jazz or mariachi or samba with any artistry not so fine.
    nk (1d9030) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:04 am

    Let me stop you (ha!) right there, before anyone gets the idea that you are arguing the “white men can’t jump” trope. What we see here is nothing more than why there are so few black dancers in Riverdance.” It comes down to “who’s interested enough to apply themselves?”

    felipe (023cc9)

  45. BTW, I got that from a trumpet player with the Chicago Sinfonietta at a jazz concert featuring Stephane Grappelli. He said they could put on a performance like that occasionally but not often.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. More like “Why Michael Can’t Hit”, I think, felipe. Why Michael Jordan was a great basketball player and amateur level baseball player. He could do one thing or the other but not both. Something to do with learning windows and micro-muscles and trained reflexes and such.

    nk (1d9030)

  47. There’s nothing, in a free society, that precludes anyone from anything without hard word, dedication, and talent. Black billionaire, no problem, black Nobel laureate, no problem.

    Heck, in a progressive society you don’t even need the hard work, or talent. A man can be a woman, a white can be a black. But you can’t be free.

    felipe (023cc9)

  48. Plagiarist JoeyBee doing another ‘M-T-room’ Delaware presser; ‘Build Back Better,’ 3rd plank; even w/a prompter slurring his words again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. nk (1d9030) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:11 am

    Here’s what I got from a good friend who became a studio musician in L.A.

    I tried out for an open spot in Duke Ellington’s orchestra, and had to show another guy how to do a shake; I didn’t get the gig, But it was interesting that I was teaching them their own music.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  50. “ Women who auditioned for the orchestra straight out of the conservatory did fine; black and Hispanics musicians who could play jazz or mariachi or samba with any artistry not so fine.”
    _

    Thinking that a Hispanic musician auditioning for a symphony orchestra is coming from a mariachi band……
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  51. “Most of you know I was a single parent for years after my wife was killed… I don’t know how I afforded it…” – JoeyBee,7/21/2020

    Americans do, plagiarist:

    A $42,000 salary might not sound like much today. In fact, Senate records show it was actually $42,500. But Biden joined the Senate after winning his seat in 1972. Adjusted for inflation, he was earning more than $256,000 in today’s dollars. That is more than four times the median household income. – source, wikiBidenscum.lyingPOS

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Biden ducks questions- runs away from press.

    On deck, The Donald Presser.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. In DiAngelo’s and her cohort’s world, it doesn’t matter how rough you’ve had it, how unfair life has been to you, how many hurdles you have had to overcome, and how much tragedy and devastation you have had come your way, because if you are white, you still have the privilege that people of color don’t have. To live life so bound to such an impossible standard, and expect others to do likewise over that which you have absolutely no control is lunacy. In her world, race is the end-all, be-all that defines everyone, first and foremost. What a dreadfully discriminatory outlook on people.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  54. nk (1d9030) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:19 am

    I don’t think we are in disagreement. It is well known that even string virtuosos must pick either the violin or the viola upon which to concentrate, although there are critics (!) that swear that their favorite virtuoso can excel at both.

    felipe (023cc9)

  55. Most activists and some blacks see unfairness in our system rather than instances of unfair treatment.

    I think that BLM and blacks that adhere to their POV, believe that, specifically because of the unfairness in our system, there is unfair treatment as a result. They view it as mutually inclusive, and their default position.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  56. Re post #45, here is a supplement. Reds Exploiting Blacks: The Roots of Black Lives Matter (January 2016) by James Simpson, Accuracy In Media https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-exploiting-blacks-the-roots-of-black-lives-matter/
    Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (a1521c)

  57. “Most of you know I was a single parent for years after my wife was killed… I don’t know how I afforded it…” – JoeyBee,7/21/2020

    Americans do, plagiarist:

    A $42,000 salary might not sound like much today. In fact, Senate records show it was actually $42,500. But Biden joined the Senate after winning his seat in 1972. Adjusted for inflation, he was earning more than $256,000 in today’s dollars. That is more than four times the median household income. – source, wikiBidenscum.lyingPOS

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:29 am

    You’ve got a point, but it’s really interesting that you typically compare Biden to Donald.

    How does Biden lose to Donald on this kind of thing? Sticking with his family, living on money he actually earned, facing tragedy like a man. I don’t even like Biden and I think your comment might as well be a Biden advertisement.

    Your other point, that Biden’s hiding and Trump’s on deck, yeah that’s definitely a better point.

    But compared to Trump, Biden is not a rich, lazy bad family man. I mean come on.

    Dustin (064e00)

  58. Thinking that a Hispanic musician auditioning for a symphony orchestra is coming from a mariachi band……
    _

    harkin (5af287) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:27 am

    hahahaha

    Dustin (064e00)

  59. facing tragedy like a man

    Those would be tough circumstances for any young husband/father. But Biden shouldn’t have lied about the other driver being inebriated, which he did repeatedly over the ensuing decades.

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  60. Kind of ruined that fellow’s life…

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  61. a terrorist organization, that kills crops destroys property, forces the owners to post idols of devotion, which is backed by nearly all the corporations in the country, because they don’t want to be the next target, is extorting the citizens of this country, surrender everything you believe, or we will tear it down, not the stupid boogaloo who are three guys in hawaiian shirts, it’s a guerilla insurgency backed by money, and media air cover, do not pretend it is anything otherwise,

    narciso (7404b5)

  62. I tried out for an open spot in Duke Ellington’s orchestra, and had to show another guy how to do a shake; I didn’t get the gig, But it was interesting that I was teaching them their own music.”

    felipe (023cc9) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:27 am

    Dratts, I forgot to give you my take away.

    And I thought to myself, “gee that would mean something to me if you had gotten the gig.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  63. Paco de Lucia, a flamenco guitar artist par excellence, got widely panned for Concierto de Aranguez which calls for a classical guitar. Classical music is a very rarefied environment. But whatever.

    nk (1d9030)

  64. 63… to all lefties on this thread:

    Now if everything narciso just wrote is true, tell us… is he lying?

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  65. there first target in the recent era, was a peruvian american, remember him, the times abc nbc the atlantic all lied in part or entirely, ben crump was the ringmaster, remember,

    narciso (7404b5)

  66. it is counter-indicated in the practice of medicine. Some drugs (glimeperide vs metformin)only work, or are more effective, for certain genotypes. Just as some diseases (sickle-cell) “prefer” certain genotypes.

    That’s not race, that is ethnicity. Certain ethnic groups have certain genetic dispotions. Ashkenzaic Jews, for example, are more prone to Tay-Sachs disease than others. That does not make them a distinct race.

    And in any event, the discussion here is not about medicine, it is about social interaction and social equality.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  67. we can pretend all the live long day, but the wreckage wrought in lives, in damages, in the confidence of the people to do their day to day things is real,

    narciso (7404b5)

  68. Snobbery more often than talent, in music, is what makes for a rarefied environment.

    felipe (023cc9)

  69. That’s not race, that is ethnicity.

    Let me explain that I consider “race” to be just a property observable in phenotype, not genotype. I do not use the term “race” at all. I cannot control what inferences you make of your own accord.

    Ashkenzaic Jews, for example, are more prone to Tay-Sachs disease than others. That does not make them a distinct race.

    That’s exactly right; it means they share a genotype which Tay-Sachs “likes.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  70. nk, which one is Paco?

    I kid, I kid!

    felipe (023cc9)

  71. I take it that I have successfully taken all your goats? [ba-boom -tish]

    felipe (023cc9)

  72. That difference in viewpoints is enormous and IMO insurmountable.

    I don’t. If you asked an Irish or Italian immigrant in, say 1890, if the system was fair towards them, they would have laughed in your face. Open discrimination, the Blaine Amendments, Catholicism being treated as a foreign allegiance. “No Irish or Dogs Allowed”.

    But by 1960, American was electing a Catholic Irish president and any social stigma was evaporating (wasn’t quite gone yet). Now it is. Why is it unreasonable to assume that it can happen for blacks.

    Most activists and some blacks see unfairness in our system rather than instances of unfair treatment. I see it the opposite way.

    It is situational. There is a systemic treatment of blacks, particularly in the criminal justice system, that — even though most officers try very hard to be fair — that is unfair in effect and even those trying to be fair are TRYING to be fair in a was that they would not have to do with me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. *way

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Those would be tough circumstances for any young husband/father. But Biden shouldn’t have lied about the other driver being inebriated, which he did repeatedly over the ensuing decades.

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87) — 7/21/2020 @ 11:54 am

    He is a pathological liar, and when you really think about it, it makes him detestable.

    Biden’s strategy of hiding, taking no risks, and his history of not being honest, they really say something about what kind of leader he’ll be. A leader who takes the easy path, during hard times, is often a very bad thing.

    I don’t want to defend it by comparing him to Trump. It would be good to get a president I liked though. It’s been 16 years since a guy I liked won a presidential election.

    Dustin (064e00)

  75. ok, I’ll stop ramming my [lack of] humor on everyone. Honest.

    felipe (023cc9)

  76. I didn’t get the gig, But it was interesting that I was teaching them their own music.”

    cultural appropriationist !!!

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  77. I will argue that assimilation leads to acceptance. All communities require some assimilation in order to be accorded acceptance within it, which is mitigated by its capacity for toleration.

    Assimilation for blacks seems to be stuck half-way, to the point that some despair. Admittedly, there has always been a “black nationalist” movement, going back to Marcus Garvey, that said there could never BE assimilation and blacks mustn’t expect it. Hard to say whether that’s been self-fulfilling or whether that’s just an excuse some folks use.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Colonel Haiku (3c8e87) — 7/21/2020 @ 12:24 pm

    LOL! If only I knew then, what I know now, right?

    felipe (023cc9)

  79. I had the same problem with Patterio this AM.

    You might have had better luck with “Patterico”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. Assimilation for blacks seems to be stuck half-way, to the point that some despair. Admittedly, there has always been a “black nationalist” movement, going back to Marcus Garvey, that said there could never BE assimilation and blacks mustn’t expect it. Hard to say whether that’s been self-fulfilling or whether that’s just an excuse some folks use.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/21/2020 @ 12:26 pm

    I absolutely agree with your assessment, And I am looking at all those who would profit from that sad state of affairs, as the obstinate agents.

    felipe (023cc9)

  81. Patterio this AM.

    LOL, I missed that.

    felipe (023cc9)

  82. 81… excellent tune!

    Here’s some of Chicago’s peaceful protesting done in between gun battles in teh streets…

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1284287185508864006

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  83. Ashkenzaic Jews, for example, are more prone to Tay-Sachs disease than others. That does not make them a distinct race.

    Ashkenazi. They’re all descended from around 330 people, I’ve read. Never mind Tay-Sachs. Have you heard of the blue people of Troublesome Creek, Kentucky?

    nk (1d9030)

  84. I don’t want to defend it by comparing him to Trump. It would be good to get a president I liked though. It’s been 16 years since a guy I liked won a presidential election.

    I thought that Trump vs Clinton was piss poor. Now that Trump has become a known quantity, Trump vs a aged man passed over 4 times in his prime is evidence of a bankrupt system.

    And what is surprising is that both parties have much better candidates available, but the system that selects them is beyond broken. Were it not for blind loyalty and irrational attachments, Trump would not be renominated. Were it not for a Balkanized party structure, with myriad factions all beggaring their neighbor, the Democrats would have nominated someone younger and more in tune with America.

    I also believe that there has never been a better time for a new centrist party to be formed, possibly along the lines of a new federalism, aiming to devolve national power back to the several states. It used to be that the two parties were center-left and center-right, but both of them seem to want to move the their classical extremes (Socialism vs Fascism) neither of which is particularly attractive to most people.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. You know your on the right side when these are the people against you.

    Gaetz’s public call for Cheney’s ouster came after Politico reported on Tuesday that a heated exchange ensued during a House GOP conference meeting. Reps. Gaetz, Jim Jordan (R-OH), Andy Biggs (R-AZ), Thomas Massie (R-KY), Chip Roy (R-TX) and Louie Gohmert (R-TX) reportedly piled on Cheney for breaking with the President numerous times in recent months regarding his response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  86. Well, that’s just the nature of the classical music beast. It’s so stylized

    It isn’t exactly that it’s “stylized.” It’s that the individual instrumentalists in an orchestra — as distinct from those good enough to be soloists — aren’t expected to choose the style. The conductor does that, applying his (or her) sense of how every note should sound to create the overall texture and dynamics, adding an individual sensibility to the composer’s concept. Some instrumentalists are happy in that situation, and some conductors pull off more satisfying results than others.

    And the results can be thrilling. Yesterday I listened to the Shostakovitch 4th conducted by Myung-whun Chung, and there are passages where I was on the edge of my seat. The ending is as stupendous and shattering as anything in music. Someone who can write that kind of music has a high level of genius.

    But I also like hearing people who can both write and perform their own music (as distinct from noise). A fairly simple song written by someone who also sings it well can be very satisfying. Most good singers can’t write songs. Most competent songwriters don’t have particularly good voices.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  87. I also believe that there has never been a better time for a new centrist party to be formed, possibly along the lines of a new federalism, aiming to devolve national power back to the several states.

    It doesn’t seem like there’s much to lose. Both parties win when they get to define the other side, and both parties have well known leaders or pundits proud to get some clicks by taking that definition proudly. It leaves no ground for the 85% of the country that just wants a fair shake and common sense.

    Dustin (064e00)

  88. It would be good to get a president I liked though

    Right now, it would be good just to have a choice for president that I like.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  89. I don’t comment often, but this is a great comment and I’m of the same age, and see it the same way.

    So, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the BLM movement and more generally about what my black friends are asking for.

    I’m old enough to remember what the world was like before the Civil Rights laws of the 60’s and the social integration that happened in the 70’s and 80’s. The school I attended for 1st and 2nd grade was segregated, if only by housing covenants — blacks in Pasadena were unable to live in certain areas due to now-unenforceable deed restrictions.

    And yes, MUCH changed then. There is no comparison between the civil rights of blacks in 1960 with those of 2020. But…

    I’m Irish. The history of my ancestors in Ireland (held for several hundred years as serfs on their own land by conquerors), and later in America is not pretty. It’s not as bad as chattel slavery, but it still isn’t pretty and it took far too long to change. Coming to America, the Irish were the social equals of the freed slaves and Chinese, which is to say not very high on the list. Several of my ancestors worked side-by-side with freed slaves on the Union Pacific, ending up in San Francisco.

    But things changed. By my father’s generation, the Irish were becoming accepted and I have uncles who were judges, JPL executives and Marine One pilots.

    Today, I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that I will be treated by the system fairly (maybe not WELL, but fairly). I am confident of this.

    America’s racial problems will not be over until black Americans can also be confident of this. They aren’t now. Will we get there in my remaining lifetime? I don’t know. But THIS is what today’s movement is about, and it’s not an unreasonable request.

    Yes, there are those who would pile on the demands, but that’s not really what it’s about. Just the simple confidence that they will be treated fairly.

    I think this the crux of the argument: You’re either willing to admit to this or not.

    Tom M (347d19)

  90. @92. I’m Irish. The history of my ancestors in Ireland (held for several hundred years as serfs on their own land by conquerors), and later in America is not pretty.

    But funny:

    “All right… we’ll give some land to the n-ggers and the ch-nks. But we don’t want the Irish!….. Aw, prairie sh-t… Everybody!” – Olson Johnson [David Huddleston] ‘Blazing Saddles’ 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. A national treasure once sang:

    “Be nice to people who;
    Are inferior to you…”

    😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgASBVMyVFI

    “It’s fun to eulogize; the people you despise…” – Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. And in any event, the discussion here is not about medicine, it is about social interaction and social equality.
    Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 7/21/2020 @ 12:02 pm

    Forgive for failing to address this part of your comment. Yes, you are right. My original comment neglected to reference the statement to which I replied:

    she has participants go around and state their race

    Answer: the human race.
    Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 7/21/2020 @ 9:21 am

    Which, fittingly, is yours.

    What is often the case, is that a comment prompted an internal dialogue that yielded a comment
    for which I provided no context. I did not explain that am used to answering as you do; the human race. But I recently changed my primary care physician.

    A nurse asked for my race and I replied “human” which she actually accepted. to make a long story short, this resulted in a nurse practitioner temporarily prescribing me a drug that research had found to be counter-indicated by my ethnicity rather than any co-morbidity. This was also made possible because my new physician had not been able to examine me personaly until much later when the mistake was corrected and I was put on a more appropriate med. I thus learned not to be vague to questions of “race” in a medical setting.

    But this all occurred in a social setting, yes? I just failed to set my comment in that context, and in this I was negligent. For this I apologize, Bored Lawyer.

    felipe (023cc9)

  93. Things are getting a bit testy on Capitol Hill:

    Ocasio-Cortez accosted by GOP lawmaker over remarks: ‘That kind of confrontation hasn’t ever happened to me’
    ……
    Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.) was coming down the steps on the east side of the Capitol on Monday, having just voted, when he approached Ocasio-Cortez, who was ascending into the building to cast a vote of her own.

    In a brief but heated exchange, which was overheard by a reporter, Yoho told Ocasio-Cortez she was “disgusting” for recently suggesting that poverty and unemployment are driving a spike in crime in New York City during the coronavirus pandemic.

    “You are out of your freaking mind,” Yoho told her.

    Ocasio-Cortez shot back, telling Yoho he was being “rude.”

    The two then parted ways. Ocasio-Cortez headed into the building, while Yoho, joined by Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas), began descending toward the House office buildings. A few steps down, Yoho offered a parting thought to no one in particular.

    “F****g b****h,” he said.
    …..
    Approached a few hours later, Yoho declined to discuss any aspect of the exchange. “No comment,” he said.

    Williams, who was in a position to hear the entire back-and-forth, said he wasn’t paying it any mind.

    “I was actually thinking, as I was walking down the stairs, I was thinking about some issues I’ve got in my district that need to get done,” Williams said. “I don’t know what their topic was. There’s always a topic, isn’t there?”
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  94. In a brief but heated exchange, which was overheard by a reporter, Yoho told Ocasio-Cortez she was “disgusting” for recently suggesting that poverty and unemployment are driving a spike in crime in New York City during the coronavirus pandemic.

    “You are out of your freaking mind,” Yoho told her.

    [. . .]

    The two then parted ways. Ocasio-Cortez headed into the building, while Yoho, joined by Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas), began descending toward the House office buildings. A few steps down, Yoho offered a parting thought to no one in particular.

    “F****g b****h,” he said.

    Our ruling class is completely witless. I’m quite sure any commenter on this blog could have said something far more clever and pointed than what Yoho the yo-yo said. But we are indeed being governed by the worst among us these days.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  95. “Hey Sandy, do you think NYU, Columbia, and Pace will open back up so that those poor hungry white college kids can stop rioting and get a sandwich?”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  96. well I wouldn’t use such language, but she is one, it’s funny what reporters hear, and what they don’t,

    narciso (7404b5)

  97. I also believe that there has never been a better time for a new centrist party to be formed, possibly along the lines of a new federalism, aiming to devolve national power back to the several states.

    That would be great, but it seems badly out of step with the Zeitgeist.

    I don’t really sense a groundswell of popular support for federalism or limited government. Quite the contrary. Since the New Deal, the Democrats have been a party of larger, more centralized government. And now the Republican Nationalist Party has signed on too.

    My impression is that people want more and more government goodies. For a limited-government federalist, about the only redeeming feature of the two parties we have is their relative ineffectiveness at delivering these goodies.

    I would say the best selling point of a new, centrist party would be technocratic and political competence. There are a host of issues that cry out for Solomon-like compromise:

    Immigration reform
    Health care
    Entitlement reform
    Retraining for workers whose jobs are lost to automation and technology
    Improving education outcomes

    Just having a government that can negotiate and hammer out workable compromises to address chronic problems would be an enormous step forward.

    Dave (1bb933)

  98. hammer out workable compromises

    I’ve come to appreciate that concept more lately, after perhaps too many years seeking an ideological purity that is also contrary to the thinking of most people around me where I live. There’s something energizing about defining oneself largely by opposition — but it can be almost as blinkering as actually living in an ideological cocoon.

    The people who live around me, who staff the places I shop, etc., are not my enemies. They’re Americans, more good than bad, and we need to figure out ways we can all live together in reasonable peace.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  99. ‘Yoho has been a veterinarian and small business owner for the past 30 years, serving the North Central Florida area. In December 2019, Yoho announced that he will not run for reelection to Congress in 2020.’ -source, GOPquitter.scumbag.gov

    So bottom lin, AOC stays in Congress and he goes… still, you’d think a vet would be better skilled at putting down a ‘b-tch.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. The people who live around me, who staff the places I shop, etc., are not my enemies. They’re Americans, more good than bad, and we need to figure out ways we can all live together in reasonable peace.

    Radegunda (e1ea47) — 7/21/2020 @ 2:38 pm

    Yep. I don’t hate them, they don’t hate me. It’s really not complicated.

    I know I know… I’m a sheeple letting the socialist or fascist onslaught overrun me, I need to panic. That’s always been the con. Trump’s just really bad at it, providing us with what could be a golden opportunity.

    That’s right. Kanye 2020.

    🤔

    Dustin (064e00)

  101. I’m not a big fan of guilt-porn, I don’t think I’m the audience (or maybe even generation? or cultural group?) DiAngelo’s writing for or is interested in talking about, and she appears to do a lousy job of intersetionality. Also, I think her terminology isn’t very accurate. And she seems to have an external locus of control viewpoint, which I find to be counterproductive.

    I don’t disagree that there are issues surrounding race that need to be talked about or watched for, but her method seems counter-productive.

    @75 There’s still a fair amount of anti-Catholicism out there on an individual basis, especially in certain areas of the country, but it fortunately isn’t as overt any more.

    Nic (896fdf)

  102. – trigger alert. Time for my occasional tirade-

    Equality. When did this become the Holy Grail? When was justice replaced by equality? “All are equal before the law,” huh? Hell (literally), we aren’t even equal before God at our Judgement. All were created equal, what we do afterwards is what fills us with iniquity, and that will be judged with justice and mercy. Thanks be to God.

    felipe (023cc9)

  103. Liberty, justice and equality are all important social values, and there often trade-offs between them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. It’s Maxine to the rescue!

    felipe (023cc9)

  105. In a brief but heated exchange, which was overheard by a reporter, Yoho told Ocasio-Cortez she was “disgusting” for recently suggesting that poverty and unemployment are driving a spike in crime in New York City during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Totally untrue, but how else can AOC excuse the rise in crime? It’s typical though of the extrme lefts lying with statistics – take a maybe true statistic = the rise in crime, and the rise in poverty) and drill down it down falsely.

    That’s not the kind of crime that’s occurring. And there are so many sources of food. Including food pantries, religious institutions etc.

    Some of which a person would have to stumble across accidentally, though. They’re giving it away – and masks – and they don’t even know to whom. Not enough maybe to supply a person;s entire food needs, but definitely a supplement.

    Not to mention just begging.

    And the New York Times had a front page story whose point maybe was to be anti-Trump in some way, but it puts the lie to AOC.

    People get food stamps before they get other government assistance.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/us/politics/coronavirus-food-stamps.html

    Amid a Deadly Virus and Crippled Economy, One Form of Aid Has Proved Reliable: Food Stamps

    …..From February to May, the program grew by 17 percent, about three times faster than in any previous three months, according to state data collected by The New York Times. Its rapid expansion is a testament to both the hardship imposed by the pandemic and the importance of a program that until recently drew conservative attack….

    …..Food stamps — formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP — support young and old, healthy and disabled, the working and the unemployed, making it the closest thing the United States has to a guaranteed income. Though administered by states, the benefits are paid by the federal government, with no spending cap, and the program has largely avoided the delays that have plagued unemployment insurance.

    “SNAP is the universal safety net,” said Diane Schanzenbach, an economist at Northwestern University.

    After long pushing to reduce SNAP usage, claiming it promotes dependency and waste, the Trump administration eased administrative rules during the pandemic to speed enrollment. Two Republican-led states, Florida and Georgia, have expanded caseloads the most, and state officials from both parties have called the program an essential antipoverty tool…

    ….Though benefits normally vary with income, Congress temporarily expanded the program in March by offering all recipients the maximum aid for their household size ($509 for three people). As a result, spending, which totaled about $60 billion last year, has grown even faster than caseloads. But unlike in the last recession, the size of the top payment did not grow, and despite the expanding rolls, surveys show elevated rates of hunger, especially among families with children.,,,

    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3)

  106. ….Reps. Gaetz, Jim Jordan (R-OH), Andy Biggs (R-AZ), Thomas Massie (R-KY), Chip Roy (R-TX) and Louie Gohmert (R-TX)

    Drunks, perverts and imbeciles.

    Reagan Seeds.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. “You are out of your freaking mind,” Yoho told her.

    Ocasio-Cortez shot back, telling Yoho he was being “rude.”

    She couldn’t say he was wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3)

  108. The triangle of Liberty, Justice, and Equality can’t exist if the sum of two of them is not greater than the third – that is, on a level playing field.

    felipe (023cc9)

  109. “I just wish her well frankly. I’ve met her numerous times over the years especially since I lived in Palm Beach and I guess they lived in Palm Beach but I wish her well.”
    – Donald Trump on Ghislaine Maxwell

    Dave (1bb933)

  110. She couldn’t say he was wrong.
    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3) — 7/21/2020 @ 3:18 pm

    She could say “You’re wrong, Dr. Brewster!” Then later claim she was quoting a line from Tootsie.

    felipe (023cc9)

  111. “I know you are but what am I?”

    …would have been the killer comeback for AOC

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. 112. He wasn’t about to pull a Nixon/Manson foul-up.

    Nixon Calls Manson Guilty; Attorneys Move a Mistrial | News …

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1970/8/4/nixon-calls...

    Referring to the Manson case, Nixon said, “here is a man who was guilty, directly or indirectly, of eight murders without reason.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. “I know you are but what am I?”

    Is that really better than “I’m rubber and you’re glue; what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you”?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  114. Well said in your last several posts felipe.

    NJRob (70083d)

  115. Trump wishes person well, Press interprets this to mean he wants her to escape justice or that they’re friends. Because? Stupid.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  116. I’m Irish. The history of my ancestors in Ireland (held for several hundred years as serfs on their own land by conquerors), and later in America is not pretty.

    I loved how you sorta gotta a little vague about “America”. Yes, the Orish were so OPPRESSED in the USA, that’s why they came here by the hundreds of thousands, from 1790 to 1920. Weren’t all the Irish oppressed in Canada too? Oh, and also England, Austrialia, South Africa, South America? One has to come to conclusion that the Orish exaggerate, or they stupidly left their country to be OPPRESSED all around the world from 1790-1920.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  117. NJRob (70083d) — 7/21/2020 @ 5:06 pm

    Thank you, NJRob, I appreciate your saying so.

    felipe (023cc9)

  118. I don’t really sense a groundswell of popular support for federalism or limited government. Quite the contrary. Since the New Deal, the Democrats have been a party of larger, more centralized government.

    People feel forced to pick a side. Give them a different choice, with credible candidates (and that is the real problem), and they’ll listen. If you can convince them that they are not “wasting their vote”, you can get some traction. To me, choosing between Biden and Trump is wasting my vote.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. Yeah, sure the Irish flocked to Australia in droves. Right. Something about that, or being hanged for stealing. As for coming to America, the first Irish came here as “indentured servants”, and not of their own choice. After that the big wave came when it was that or starve.

    Better than the Middle Passage, of course.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. I am reminded of this joke:

    How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

    Answer: None.

    norcal (a5428a)

  121. rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/21/2020 @ 5:24 pm

    Every word spoken by Trump is being treated like he was Dick Deadeye.

    “From such a face and form as mine the noblest sentiments sound like the black utterances of a depraved imagination.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  122. Is that really better than “I’m rubber and you’re glue; what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you”?

    Brevity is the soul of wit, dear boy.

    But either would have sufficed as long as she did an adorable little hair-flip before walking away.

    Dave (1bb933)

  123. “hair-flip”

    That is funny! :)

    norcal (a5428a)

  124. Its the path of least resistance, you want to show up the pollster as an ignorant overpaid babboon, theres some sport in it.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  125. “I think the whole point of this is pretentious. I feel that way. And it’s creating a problem that doesn’t exist. [Mercedes] Painting the car black… I don’t know what good it will do.

    “I’ve met drivers from different backgrounds, races, and I’ve always welcomed them with open arms. In motor racing it doesn’t matter what color you are; you have to earn your place with results, and that’s the same for everyone.”

    “I don’t know what’s wrong. Yes, maybe there is little diversity, but it’s not because they are discriminated against. That’s the point.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1312289/Lewis-Hamilton-Blasts-Mario-Andretti-Sir-Jackie-Stewart-Anti-Racism-Views-News

    beer ‘n pretzels (8dac67)

  126. @119 Rcocean, this is obviously something you don’t have much knowledge about. Throughout the history of the US there has been extensive anti-Catholic and anti-Irish prejudice including politicians trying to have laws past that outlawed Catholics in politics and Catholic schools. In the 1920s the KKK burned a cross on gr. gr. Aunt’s lawn for taking a position teaching (public) elementary school. She was Irish and Catholic.

    It was a problem.

    Nic (896fdf)

  127. Mayor Lori Lightfoot
    @chicagosmayor

    Under no circumstances will I allow Donald Trump’s troops to come to Chicago and terrorize our residents.
    __ _

    l E T 17
    @Inevitable_ET
    ·
    Didn’t you mean the US military? National Guard?
    __ _

    Miguel Granda
    @MiguelAGranda
    ·
    In Chicago, 1,901 people have been shot this year…and…At least 336 people have been murdered in Chicago through July 2. Chicago had 658 murders in 2017, 567 in 2018 and 492 in 2019, according to Chicago police records….

    Who’s terrorizing who?
    __ _

    Alejandro Wolf face
    @WSoxSalga11
    ·
    What if….and this is just a wild idea…they only terrorize the ones shooting toddlers on the West Side?

    _

    harkin (5af287)

  128. The woke and the racist have a lot on which they agree! Perhaps the left are very quietly concerned about the black crime rate, but they can’t say anything about it because that would be raaaaacist. And thus, Black Lives Matter only when they are killed by a white policeman.

    White supremacists should absolutely love the urban black culture and the ‘defund the police’ campaign:

    1 – With an abortion rate five times that of white women, black women have eliminated 19 million black babies from the population. Had black women not been using abortion so frequently, the black percentage of the population would be about 17.2% rather than the 13.4% it is now.

    2 – With the ridiculously high black-on-black murder rate, a significant number of young black males have been removed from the population, and most have been removed at an age where they still had the chance of future procreation, thus further reducing the black population.

    3 – With funding reductions and policy-driven reduction of the police from heavily black neighborhoods, the black murderers will get away with their crimes longer, thus giving them more time on the streets to kill other young black males, further reducing the black population. Philadelphia, for example, has seen 28% more homicides this year than on the same day in 2019, and 100 more homicides than on the same day in 2014. If the murder rate increase continues at the same rate, the City of Brotherly Love will see 455 murders this year, mostly of ‘brothers.’ In 2019, 356 people were murdered in Philly.

    4 – Eventually, of course, the black murderers will be caught and locked up for the rest of their lives, thus preventing them from further procreation, further reducing the black population.

    For the white supremacist, what’s not to like?

    Is race at the forefront of most Americans’ minds? Perhaps it is, but the left can’t talk about that, ’cause if they did, they’d be accused of being racist. More dead Negroes is far more preferable to them than being called a bad name.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  129. Patterico writes:

    As the quote at the head of the post says: “Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity.” DiAngelo didn’t say it, but you can hear the words coming out of her mouth, can’t you?

    Actually, no, that’s not quite it.

    A more common perspective that emerges within anti-racist circles would be something like this:

    Race, as we experience it in the West, is an invention. It is a social construct, fabricated to elevate white-skinned people to a position of superiority above darker-skinned peoples, so as to justify dominating them however is seen fit, with particular regard to plunder and enslavement. All of us emerge today in the shadow of hundreds of years of overt white supremacy, and must grapple with the ways in which its legacy is still upon us today.

    For those of us who are white, there are common ways that have been socialized according to the myth of white supremacy. The fruits of this socialization can be seen in up-to-the-minute studies that examine implicit bias, hiring practices, the so-called “empathy gap,” disparities in the criminal justice system, as well as educational, health, housing, and economic outcomes. Although few people today intentionally promote white supremacy, we all have a moral responsibility to uproot and eradicate injustice based on the white supremacist invention of race. The “work” for white people is distinct in that we must examine the ways we’ve been socialized to think and behave, which is tricky, because for most of us, our biases exist at the implicit, unconscious, level. Not conscious. (This is also why many of us are loathe to the idea that we ourselves may have done something racist.)

    TL;DR: white supremacists believe in racial essentialism. Anti-racist activists believe there continues to be injustice based on the myth of race, and we all have a responsibility to do our part to end it.

    TR (71e867)

  130. NJRob wrote:

    Balkanizing society by focusing on our differences instead of our commonalities.

    The Associated Press and The new York Times have decided that their stylebooks will have them capitalizing Black but leaving white in lower case when referring to race or culture.

    The AP said white people in general have much less shared history and culture, and don’t have the experience of being discriminated against because of skin color. . .
    . .

    “White doesn’t represent a shared culture and history in the way Black does,” The New York Times said on July 5 in explaining its decision.

    I guess I’m just not smart enough to see how this is qualitatively different from saying ‘all black people look alike.’ The cultural guardians of the credentialed media are telling us, straight out, that black Americans are culturally distinct from white Americans, but sshhhh! we can’t actually talk about that, now can we?

    Well, if the surrendered-to-the-woke editors of The New York Times can tell us that black Americans have a different culture than white Americans, doesn’t that raise the obvious question of which culture has been more efficient in producing good results for the people within it?

    Well, it might raise that obvious question, but, Heaven forfend! you can’t actually ask it. I can ask it, ’cause I’m retired, and I have no job from which I can be ‘cancelled,’ but I’m a nobody, and nobody will listen.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  131. Trump wishes person a woman he has met many times and who is credibly accused of luring under age girls to be sexually abused by a man who Trump also knew well, Press everyone sane interprets this to mean he wants her to escape justice or be an extremely weird thing to do especially since he stressed that they interacted frequently and implied that they’re friends. Because? It’s a very strange thing to do and everyone that does’t see that is Stupid.

    rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/21/2020 @ 5:24 pm

    FIFY

    But why do you think he used time at a nationally televised press conference to wish her well and stress that they’ve met many times? I’m perplexed. Responding with “I don’t have any specific knowledge of this criminal case and my DOJ will ensure that the law is followed.” or similar would have made a lot more sense.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  132. With regards to “I disagree”:

    With the list above, the idea is that white people who want to be promote healing and reconciliation should embrace postures of listening and seeking to understand, rather than bracing to argue against someone who is sharing an experience of racism. It’s not conducive to growing trust or connection when you tell someone you disagree with their interpretation of their own experience. This really isn’t about self-censorship so much as intentional, empathic, communication.

    TR (71e867)

  133. TR wrote:

    Anti-racist activists believe there continues to be injustice based on the myth of race, and we all have a responsibility to do our part to end it.

    Do we?

    Black Lives Matter and the woke would all demand that, but they concomitantly demand that we all simply accede to their demands; discussion or compromise is not on the table for them.

    And thus we can never, ever ask: does the separate black culture The New York Times tells us exists yield for the people living within it inferior results? We already know that single parenthood — almost always single motherhood — leads to a far poorer economic results, yet non-Hispanic black mothers in the United States have a roughly 69.3% illegitimacy rate — oops, sorry, that’s out-of-wedlock birth rate; to say illegitimacy rate is raaaaacist and sexist — while for non-Hispanic white mothers, the rate is 21.9%.

    Is that not a cultural issue, yet we can’t talk about that!

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  134. American racism is nothing more than the white underclass needing an underclass to look down on, and everything else is bullsh!t. A corollary of that is perpetuating that underclass as an underclass, and everything else is bullsh!t.

    nk (1d9030)

  135. Patterico, According to the Poll most people believe that blacks face discrimination based on race. I’m sure that as you get more particular the agreement will fracture.

    The ‘left’ has a identified areas where they think that is important and is proposing many types of solutions.

    Some of them are dumb and can never be implemented such as ‘abolish prisons’ or to literally ‘de-fund’ the police.

    Some are aspirational such as “support minority owned business’. and ‘don’t discriminate’

    Some are cultural such as ‘stop glorifying men who went to war to perpetuate slavery with public monuments’.

    Some are arguably good ideas such as “increase social services so that the police aren’t the default response to all unusual events while training and equipping police to better handle public safety issues that aren’t exactly law enforcement issues.

    And within the family of ones that aren’t bad are terribly misunderstood executions and people acting in bad fair, or just being jerks.

    I haven’t seen that conservatives have offered much in the way of solutions or ideas. There’s plenty of willingness to quantify and debate the scope and scale of the problem. Plenty on the right are willing to poke holes in badly constructed arguments. There’s a strong focus on how talking about the problem in the wrong way is mean to white people. There’s a legitimate point that the left talks about race too much. But that’s about it.

    To simplify it down; The left has said “There’s a problem with race and policing in minority communities and here’s a bunch of stuff to do about that.” The right has said “We’re not really sure there’s a problem, just a few bad apples, and we think people talk about race too much.”

    Time123 (b87ded)

  136. Mr M wrote:

    I will argue that assimilation leads to acceptance. All communities require some assimilation in order to be accorded acceptance within it, which is mitigated by its capacity for toleration.

    Assimilation for blacks seems to be stuck half-way, to the point that some despair. Admittedly, there has always been a “black nationalist” movement, going back to Marcus Garvey, that said there could never BE assimilation and blacks mustn’t expect it. Hard to say whether that’s been self-fulfilling or whether that’s just an excuse some folks use.

    I would argue that part of the reason for forced busing and public school integration was assimilation: the social engineers believed that this could turn black children into just darker-skinned white children, that there would be an assimilated, unified culture, and it would be the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant one. They were shocked, shocked! when things didn’t turn out that way.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  137. The forefront of candidate Biden’s mind is imploding.

    mg (99c84e)

  138. Time123 (#138):

    The right has said “We’re not really sure there’s a problem, just a few bad apples, and we think people talk about race too much.”

    Yes. And the expression is, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. If the “good apples” had the courage to throw the bad apples out of the barrel, the solutions wouldn’t be framed in such categorical terms as “defund the police”. The unwillingness or systemic inability to hold bad actors accountable is a major barrier to trust.

    TR (71e867)

  139. And thus we can never, ever ask: does the separate black culture The New York Times tells us exists yield for the people living within it inferior results? We already know that single parenthood — almost always single motherhood — leads to a far poorer economic results, yet non-Hispanic black mothers in the United States have a roughly 69.3% illegitimacy rate — oops, sorry, that’s out-of-wedlock birth rate; to say illegitimacy rate is raaaaacist and sexist — while for non-Hispanic white mothers, the rate is 21.9%.

    Is that not a cultural issue, yet we can’t talk about that!

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56) — 7/22/2020 @ 6:18 am

    You’re talking about it now, so obviously it can be talked about. If your point is that “Black People and their culture are inferior and therefore these problems are their own fault” People will think you’re racist.

    If you want to have a conversation about it with leftists there are places you can do that. You’ll probably find people highly sensitive to the implication that cultural problems are because of inherent flaws in black people. You’ll need to be cautious on your wording to avoid that. Enough people have said it explicitly that you’re unlikely to get much good will. You’ll probably also find a number of people get frustrated if you’re taking a firm position without much understanding of the subject. You’ll definitely find plenty of people mis-characterizing your points and assuming terrible things about you to score cheap rhetorical points. But it’s online conversation, that happens everywhere.

    But people talk about it. Here’s a funny take on it from a leftist perspective.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  140. Yes. And the expression is, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. If the “good apples” had the courage to throw the bad apples out of the barrel, the solutions wouldn’t be framed in such categorical terms as “defund the police”. The unwillingness or systemic inability to hold bad actors accountable is a major barrier to trust.

    I would say it this way.

    Chavin killed a man. There’s nothing systemic about that. The system that lead the other 3 officers to permit him to do that without speaking up, and the culture that punishes officers who do speak up, is a systemic problem.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  141. I think it’s more about culture than race, what judith katz, has been attributing in her attempt to virtue signal,

    narciso (7404b5)

  142. “These insurrectionists in the streets of Portland are little different from the insurrectionists who seceded from the Union in 1861 in South Carolina and tried to take over Fort Sumter.

    Differences
    ———–
    1. They’re advocating police reform, not insurrection.
    2. The confederates wanted to perpetuate a vast conspiracy to kidnap children from their families and force them into a life of sexual and industrial servitude. The protesters aren’t advocating that.

    ya know at this point I think the comparison is too dumb to bother listing more reasons it’s wrong. Those are enough.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  143. I would love to see a laser-like focus on police use of force…but instead…because it’s a tough problem….we drift off into feel-good problems like statues and monuments and mascots….which in my estimation do little to nothing to actually hold anyone back. Black kids are unnecessarily dying in Chicago….from drive by shootings and other nonsense gang violence. Do we see riots and marches protesting that senselessness? Do we see people kneeling in the streets demanding change? Do we see BLM pressing for action? Do we see entertainers and sports athletes leveraging their immense popularity to demand justice for those victims and for communities to demand better? It’s this cognitive dissonance that is frustrating. If Black Lives Matter…and they do….why do they only seem to matter when police are involved? I know this response is almost cliche…but when there’s an elephant in the room…at some point we must acknowledge him.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  144. They’re advocating police reform, not insurrection.

    LOL

    I mean, it’s like comparing Fort Sumter to D-Day.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  145. . Throughout the history of the US there has been extensive anti-Catholic and anti-Irish prejudice including politicians trying to have laws past that outlawed Catholics in politics and Catholic schools. In the 1920s the KKK burned a cross on gr. gr. Aunt’s lawn for taking a position teaching (public) elementary school. She was Irish and Catholic

    Sure. In the 1920’s? That’s rather vague. Got a SPECIFIC year on that. Or a location. Because KKK cross burnings were a big thing – even back then. And how did the KKK know she was catholic? OR care?

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  146. On the other side, we have numerous Irish Catholics obtaining power and wealth in the USA. Like a signer of the Constitution. Or the richest slave owner in south caroling in the 1830’s. Or a ton of Civil war Generals. Or like the Mayor of Boston in the 1880s. Or dominating Tamaney Hall in the 1880s.

    But of course, no matter how many people you cite, or how thin the evidence of discrimination is, the Irish still keep bringing up some vague discrimination, the KKK, or mythical “No Irish Need apply signs”. In the UK it was mythical “No Dogs or Irishmen” signs in rooming houses. WHat was it in Australia?

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  147. politicians trying to have laws past that outlawed Catholics in politics and Catholic schools.

    Yeah. Right. Except religious tests are forbidden by the US constitution.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  148. Try this:

    Catholics tangled with KKK during Klan’s 1920s resurgence

    DRJ (aede82)

  149. @152. But of course, no matter how many people you cite, or how thin the evidence of discrimination is, the Irish still keep bringing up some vague discrimination, the KKK, or mythical “No Irish Need apply signs”. In the UK it was mythical “No Dogs or Irishmen” signs in rooming houses. WHat was it in Australia?

    Myth?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

    rocean-

    [ ] Ignorant

    [ ] Ignorant

    [ ] Ignorant

    [ ] All Of The Above

    Choose.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. To quote John McWhorter from the new post, rcocean’s comments are always “replete with claims that are either plain wrong or bizarrely disconnected from reality”.

    nk (1d9030)

  151. I think the “No Irish Need Apply” signs were seen in the 1850s.

    Let’s be fair. For a reason.

    In the 1920s the second KKK was anti-Catholic, so this fits the time line. The KKK took on too many “enemies,” and it sort of went away. It would be an interesting story to hear how this was done. But it was not much of a factor after about 1927.

    Prejudice against Irish people disappeared because the association of Irish people with crime and hooliganism disappeared.

    Sammy Finkelman (5b43a3)

  152. rcocean asked:

    And how did the KKK know she was catholic? OR care?

    It’s pretty easy to know who we are: just check who’s walking into a Catholic church for Mass.

    More, she was Irish, and people tend to assume that being Irish means you are Catholic.

    The Klan very much cared if you weren’t a white Protestant Christian. Why? You’ve got to ask them, and they are mostly gone now.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  153. rcocean wrote:

    politicians trying to have laws past that outlawed Catholics in politics and Catholic schools.

    Yeah. Right. Except religious tests are forbidden by the US constitution.

    Few politicians have been afraid to try to pass unconstitutional measures. Catholics and Jews are now sort of OK in public office, at least if you don’t ask Dianne Feinstein, but now the ire is focused on the Mooslums.

    As for wanting to ban Catholic schools? Two hahvahd professors would like to ban homeschooling and Catholic schools.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  154. rcocean wrote:

    the Irish still keep bringing up some vague discrimination

    A red haired, green eyed lass with an Irish accent? Who would discriminate against her? Men would be falling all over themselves trying to meet her!

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  155. 156… so sez teh Gerbil King… 🐹

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. Its interesting how I ask for easily substantiated FACTS, and all I get is “Well The KKK sure were active in the 1920s” and “whole lot of cross burning going on” etc. IOW, rhetoric. Is it too much to ask for dates, places, etc.

    This isn’t 4h Century Rome we’re talking about.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  157. Rcocean is a phonetic pronunciation of Rus….well, that explains his unfamiliarity with discrimination against the Irish in US History.

    urbanleftbehind (5df91f)

  158. DJR provided you with a link to that had the facts you asked for. Now everyone is mocking you for being ignorant.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  159. 160 D-KY, since you seem a connoisseur of Irish filly, explain the origin of this Soprano line…is it true in your experience?

    urbanleftbehind (5df91f)

  160. Just a Los Angeles screenwriter, who probably never even looked at any broad’s ass except to critique what she was wearing, making fakey-fake New Jersey-style dialog. I’ve never heard the word “eggplant” as a pejorative for black people outside some “Valley Girl” written and directed movie, either.

    nk (1d9030)

  161. Re post #93. The quote you provided was not sourced. What is the attribution of that quote? – Who made that statement? When? Where? What publication?
    Re the 1st paragraph of the quote, “So, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the BLM movement and more generally about what my black friends are asking for.” – exactly, What are black friends asking for? Apparently the black friends missed – Reds Exploiting Blacks: The Roots of Black Lives Matter (January 2016) by James Simpson, Accuracy In Media https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-exploiting-blacks-the-roots-of-black-lives-matter/ – referenced in post #59 and THE TRAYVON HOAX: Unmasking the Witness Fraud that Divided America https://www.thetrayvonhoax.com/ – referenced in post #45.
    Re paragraphs 2 & 3: “I’m old enough to remember what the world was like before the Civil Rights laws of the 60’s and the social integration that happened in the 70’s and 80’s. … And yes, MUCH changed then. There is no comparison between the civil rights of blacks in 1960 with those of 2020. But…” Apparently, overlooked was the The Negro Family: The Case For National Action (known as the Moynihan Report, 1965), LBJ’s next 200 years comment about the Blacks with the passage of his Great Society domestic welfare programs, the Dem party’s Far Left sprint promoting dependency, victimhood, group rights over individual rights (jettisoning due process & the presumption of innocence) and the Black community largely embracing out of wedlock births, baby mama’s, absent fathers and gangster/thug culture.
    Re paragraph 4: “I’m Irish. The history of my ancestors in Ireland (held for several hundred years as serfs on their own land by conquerors), and later in America is not pretty. It’s not as bad as chattel slavery …” Apparently overlooked, was the history of indentured servitude in America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude_in_British_America , and moreover, in 1789 – only about 6% of the population could vote, limited to white property owning males; Liberty , democratization and justice have come hard and slow in America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_the_United_States . But where in the world was/is it better? It is estimated that today there are between 21 – 46 million people in slavery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century ; https://www.theclever.com/15-countries-where-slavery-is-still-legal/ Since time, cheaper labor has been the bane of the world.
    Re paragraphs 5 – 8: “But things changed. … ¶ Today, I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that I will be treated by the system fairly (maybe not WELL, but fairly). … ¶ America’s racial problems will not be over until black Americans can also be confident of this. They aren’t now. Will we get there in my remaining lifetime? I don’t know. But THIS is what today’s movement is about, and it’s not an unreasonable request. ¶ Yes, there are those who would pile on the demands, but that’s not really what it’s about. Just the simple confidence that they will be treated fairly.” Today? Really? Most major cities have been run by Democrats for several decades and many by Black democrats for the last 2 decades. Further, see my post #45 above re President Obama. Recall he was going to stop the oceans from rising and was given the Nobel Peace Prize (for what?), but he actually did little re helping the black community. He did have two black attorneys general, but both also actually did little re helping the black community. One was held in dual contempt of Congress (a 1st!) and the other met Bill ‘Slick Willy’ Clinton on the Phoenix tarmac and took a powder on prosecuting Hillary’s private server and destruction of 33,000 emails under subpoena (can you say the biggest obstruction of justice charge ever?). So how’s all that euphoria and promise from Hope & Change doing now? Obama set race relations in America back about 80 years – and that is not good for anyone.
    Finally, re confidence about being treated fairly and mistreatment of the Irish – how about General Flynn by black Judge Emmett Sullivan? The gravamen of the case – the Strzok/Pientka FBI 302 interview statement of Flynn has never been produced (it in fact was put into the electronic file system and Comey admitted reviewing it), yet Flynn’s initial attorneys allowed him to plead guilty without ever demanding its production or ever seeing it. Then there is Judge Sullivan comments – that things get lost, and earlier accusing Flynn of committing treason. Bias? Pejudice? Reams of undisclosed/withheld Brady material has been produced by the DOJ due to the demands of Flynn’s present attorneys (Sidney Powell, et.al.) and more documents are revealed almost daily. Clearly, Flynn was framed in an attempt to get President Trump. Yet, Judge Sullivan continues to want a pound of Flynn’s flesh. Why? Black Lives Matter? The Swamp?
    Treated fairly? How has/is Flynn being treated fairly? How has/is Trump been treated fairly? Or the 62,984,828 citizens who voted for Trump – who have been besieged by ‘The Resistance’/Dem party/Far Left?
    I’m half Irish, and the worst event in my 30+ year legal career was the wrongful and corrupt ruling(s) from the hands of a Black trial court judge in Los Angeles, CA (where on the 3rd day of trial [legal malpractice case – gravamen being an a non-waivable conflict of interest] after coming back from lunch, with a witness on the stand, without any notice he sue sponte told the jury to go into the jury room and find for the defendant, he then sue sponte granted a directed verdict for the defendant; it was not even a proper non suit, as we had not finished putting on our/Pltfs’ case, including two (2) highly qualified attorney expert witnesses, 1-with over 200 trial to verdict and 2-a former Cal state bar prosecutor – both whom supported our case on every element; the defendants never challenged the complaint pretrial or during trial and both the trial judge and the Cal State Bar both found that the defendant attorneys had a conflict, that they ignored it and they never informed their clients of the conflict). That black judge was both corrupt and incompetent. Racist? Couldn’t be, as we are repeatedly told blacks do not have any power. The judge resigned, rather than face a formal disciplinary hearing. He also held a sanctions hearing against me – threatening $165,000.00 in sanctions. Must be my ‘White Fragility’, huh?
    Again, #93 please provide the attribution for your quote.
    Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (a1521c)

  162. More links, rcocean:

    THE KNIGHTS VS. THE KLAN

    The size and reach of the Ku Klux Klan, and the racist, nativist beliefs it traffics in, have ebbed and flowed through the history of the United States. Born in the South after the Civil War, the group’s hatred was initially aimed at newly freed slaves and Yankee carpetbaggers. The Klan surged again in the years before Hart’s train ride, spreading to the rest of the nation and broadening its list of enemies at a time when racial and cultural prejudice was magnified by political and economic fears.

    Immigrants — “Italian anarchists, Irish-Catholic malcontents,” as a Klan pamphlet of the era described them, “the scum of the Mediterranean and the middle European countries … masses of ignorant, superstitious, religious devotees … festering sores on the American body politic” — were still arriving at a pace that alarmed those who believed that the United States was, and should remain, a nation of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

    The Klan cast itself as the sentinel against the kind of rapid social change that many Americans found unsettling. Membership soared past 4 million by the early 1920s, large enough to gain wide political influence and sway elections. For example, the Klan was instrumental in electing governors or senators in Oregon, Oklahoma, Indiana, Colorado, Maine and Texas, as well as many local government officials.

    As the size of the Klan peaked, so did its battle with the Knights — fought with legal briefs and letters, pamphlets and magazines, speeches and meetings, and sometimes with violence.

    THE SECOND COMING OF THE KKK: THE KU KLUX KLAN OF THE 1920S AND THE AMERICAN POLITICAL TRADITION:

    The KKK next flourished in the early 20th century in reaction to the rush of largely Catholic and Jewish immigrants to America, and also to the release of D.W. Griffith’s “The Birth of a Nation,” which extolled the KKK’s role in forming a new nation after the Civil War. This KKK lasted only for about a decade, fading quickly after Congress drastically restricted immigration in the early 1920s and KKK leaders were caught up in high-profile sexual and financial scandals.

    DRJ (aede82)

  163. @151 “Please dox yourself.” No. You can either believe me or think I’m lying, but you don’t get my family information. They knew she was Catholic because they weren’t in a big city and her father had donated the land for the 1st Catholic church in town and they attended every Sunday. Her brothers had been alter boys and acted as ushers at the church. They weren’t unknown. My gr gr grandfather had been there since the founding of the town.

    It was west of the Missouri river, so have this article from Colorado, which should give you enough of the idea of the situation. When Colorado was Klan Country.

    @152 Saying that bad things happened in other places does not excuse the bad things that happened in the US. Anti-Irish sentiment in the UK or Canada or Australia does not make Anti-Irish sentiment OK in the US.

    @153 John Jay (founding father, NY)- “We must erect a wall of brass around the country for the exclusion of Catholics,” (in discussion of the forming of the NY constitution)

    There were hundred of newspaper ads that stated “No Irish Need Apply” Teen debunks professor’s claim that anti-Irish signs never existed

    A general article on Anti-Irish sentiment in the 1800s When America Despised the Irish

    @157 I can tell you how it was handled in my gr gr Aunt’s case. The local klan leader ran a business. The Sheriff at the time was Klan and his suggestion was that she quit riling people and stay home and cook for her brothers. My Gr. Gr. grandfather had come west as part of a railroad crew with a bunch of other brawny Irish lads who also settled in the area to farm and have a passel of kids (who were mostly in their 20s and 30s by this point). My gr gr grandfather gathered all those strong Irish farm boys together and went down to the business one night and broke all his stock. Then during the day they took turns standing down the street on both sides of the business and turning people away who intended to shop there. They did it in shifts for months and eventually ran him out of town. Then they started putting their own people up for local office.

    Nic (896fdf)

  164. Since you want specifics without clicking links, this is from The Knights vs The Klan:

    Protected by the dominance of the Klan in some regions, KKK members went beyond propaganda to commit acts of violence.

    On an August afternoon in 1921, at St. Paul’s Catholic Church in Birmingham, Ala., the pastor, Father James E. Coyle, presided at the wedding of Ruth Stephenson, a recent convert, and Pedro Gussman, who was Puerto Rican. Born and ordained in Ireland, Father Coyle had spent 25 years in Alabama ministering to immigrant Catholics, many of them drawn to work in the mills, mines and foundries. He was a charter member of Mobile Council 666 and chaplain of Birmingham Council 635.

    An hour after the wedding, Father Coyle was sitting on the porch of his rectory when Rev. Edwin R. Stephenson, a Methodist minister, approached with a gun. The minister, who was the bride’s father and a Klansman, shot the priest in the head, killing him. The Klan paid for his lawyers, three of whom were members. The fourth, Hugo Black, who later became a U.S. Senator and Supreme Court justice, also joined the Klan after the trial. The judge and the foreman of the jury were both Klansmen as well. After a weeklong trial, the jury returned quickly with its verdict: not guilty.

    Hugo Black was a Senator for 10 years and a Supreme Court Justice for 34 years.

    DRJ (aede82)

  165. By the way, one of the main goals of the KKK in the 1920s was education reform, which led to anti-Catholic school initiatives in the Northwest.

    DRJ (aede82)

  166. As they are now, the Catholics then were pro-immigrant which was unpopular with white Protestants in general and the KKK specifically.

    DRJ (aede82)

  167. DRJ,I doubt RC is going to read the links and learn anything new. But this was interesting and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  168. Mr behind asked me:

    D-KY, since you seem a connoisseur of Irish filly, explain the origin of this Soprano line…is it true in your experience?

    Nope!

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  169. Re post #172 by DRJ. Re your reference there to Justice Hugo Black and his being a member of the KKK, you left out that Black was a Democrat, nominated by that Democrat hero President Franklin D. Roosevelt, confirmed by the Democrat majority senate (then 96 seats [76 Dem/16 Repub], Black was confirmed 63 to 16 [6 Dem and 10 Rebup against] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Black and Justice Black authored the majority decision in Koremastsu v. U.S. 323 U.S. 214 (1944) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States . GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (a1521c)

  170. 175. Since you mention it, I’m not aware of any KKK members that are or ever were Republicans. That would kind of fly in the face of the fact that the KKK was founded in order to keep freed blacks from voting Republican, wouldn’t it?

    Gryph (08c844)

  171. @176 recently or back in the 20’s? Because today there’s David duke as a Republican. Would need to google for more.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  172. Time123,

    I learned from this, too, and the credit goes to Nic for raising the topic.

    DRJ (aede82)

  173. I knew that, Gary, but most Southerners were Democrats then and are Republicans today. Politics can change people and Parties a lot in 100 years. It has changed things a lot in 4.

    DRJ (aede82)

  174. @178 I wish I could take credit, but Kevin really was the start @75

    Nic (896fdf)

  175. Good point, and he was responding to my comment. Heh.

    But I still have doubts about his conclusion that this will resolve in time. It has already been 1more than 150 years.

    DRJ (aede82)

  176. @181 The Irish didn’t have any visual indicators that impeded their melting into wider society. Black people definitely do, so it is bound to take longer, especially since they’ve only had full legal rights in parts of the country for abt 50 yrs.

    Nic (896fdf)

  177. 177. That was after he ran for state office as a Democrat in 1970 and 1980 and ran for president as a Democrat in 1988. It wasn’t until failing to gain traction with the Dems (who had long since purged their ranks of Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmond) that he switched to the Republican Party in December of 1988.

    Gryph (08c844)

  178. And hes a conman whose ticked off the russuans and even the iranians wont let hin crash on his pad.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  179. All the groups subject to prejudice have had indicators of some kind — speech, appearance, culture/behavior. Muslim women wear hijabs, Italians and Hispanics have darker skin, Asians look different, most immigrants speak different languages.

    DRJ (aede82)

  180. @185 A lot of them do, true, but a lot of that also fades after 1-2 generations and it isn’t always true. I am a person of much paleness (and many sunburns 😛 ) and I’ve had immigrant latino students who might as well be a relative as far as their coloration goes. Their kids will be indistinguishable from any other white American kids. However, I also have a coworker whose standard response to people asking when her family came to the US is “We didn’t, the US came to us.” who still gets flack for being Latino (she very much looks it). So I guess, really, it goes both ways.

    Nic (896fdf)

  181. Nic wrote:

    The Irish didn’t have any visual indicators that impeded their melting into wider society. Black people definitely do, so it is bound to take longer, especially since they’ve only had full legal rights in parts of the country for abt 50 yrs.

    Depends. There’s a lot of discrimination against regional accents.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  182. Nic, you must have a large Jalisco (pale faces, light hair, freckles, thank Maximillian’s troops) state contingent in your district.

    urbanleftbehind (b83871)

  183. And the red hair.

    I’m glad people are actually discussing these issues and showing proof of past discrimination. It makes the claims current being used to divide people that much weaker. If people assimilate into the culture these divisions recede. But when society remains balkanized, resentment and fear remains.

    Additionally, when I went to college, I had foolish professors who tried to claim Irish Need Not Apply was made up and that whites didn’t face discrimination. I wonder why he lied.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  184. @189, Probably worth factoring in how readily white society welcomes the assimilation/expansion of ‘white or mainstream’ the Irish didn’t used to be considered mainstream. Now they are.
    Also worth considering the impact of year of 2nd class status and discrimination.

    Time123 (306531)

  185. Assimilation.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  186. @187 Could be. I’m not a good reader of the accent issue, though. I’ve lived so many places that mine is stupidly variant and I code-switch without thinking about it depending on who I am talking to.

    @188 Certainly a possibility.

    Nic (896fdf)

  187. Some accents are the basis of discrimination. The Southern drawl, West Texas twang, and Hispanic accents are three I have seen used to tar the intelligence of the speakers.

    DRJ (aede82)

  188. And, of course, there is the dumb blonde issue which I have experienced first-hand … but it can be useful, too.

    DRJ (aede82)

  189. DRJ, you’re a woman? I honestly hadn’t realized that until just now.

    Time123 (306531)

  190. “Mythical” No Irish Need Apply signs.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  191. TL;DR: white supremacists believe in racial essentialism. Anti-racist activists believe there continues to be injustice based on the myth of race, and we all have a responsibility to do our part to end it.

    Deconstruction in music is playing “music” with things other than instruments. Deconstruction in history is explaining the past using things other than facts and events.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  192. They were shocked, shocked! when things didn’t turn out that way.

    When (as they did in L.A.) you ask middle-class parents who bought their houses based on good schools to send their kids on a hours-long bus trip to a school they wouldn’t get out of their car near, you can expect some resistance. The idea was never integration, it was holding kids hostage for better inner-city schools. This was thwarted by the education bureaucracy expanding to eat every dollar available BEFORE it got to schools, and the parents’ sudden interest in nearby private schools.

    Busing destroyed the LAUSD. White attendance dropped from 70%+ to 10%, where it remains. Public schools in majority-white neighborhoods have mostly black and brown students today. But don’t worry, President Kamala Harris will outlaw private schools as soon as Biden leaves office.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  193. Betts takes knee in Dodgers opener.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  194. The day after signing a 12-year, $365 million contract. I guess he’s protesting taxes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  195. Yes, Time123.

    DRJ (aede82)

  196. I have brown skin, and have had every kind of rude comment possibly made because I was not of the assumed ethnic/racial makeup that the speaker seemed to need me to be. When I correct misassumptions, no matter how politely, accusations of me lying, etc. happen. It’s ridiculous. White people snub in a different way. More subtle. I can assure you that every group does this sort of “profiling“.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  197. Dana,

    that’s true. Categorization is done by every human on earth. Stereotyping is necessary for survival or we wouldn’t learn which plants are safe to eat and which are not. Unfortunately, they can have negative consequences when reinforced with bad behavior.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  198. Spoiled athletes have made me glad I cut the cord and no longer watch them.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  199. I am sorry that happens, Dana, to you or anyone.

    DRJ (aede82)

  200. Dana, that definitely has to be frustrating and exhausting, especially when you don’t just happen to have your opinions, but you put a lot of time into discussing them with a challenging crowd.

    UT Law recently had a little panel on race and the police. Four black speakers, one white. The white one is far and away the most published on it, top of her class from Columbia, teaches Criminal Procedure. She did most of the talking. Three of the black professors actually didn’t say anything outside of the intros and nothing about criminal justice. I was annoyed, thought there was something wrong with that. But why? Because I was paying too much attention to skin color.

    (the real problem is that they all seem to agree on everything, which is boring and not particularly productive)

    I don’t think paying no attention to skin color works either. Sometimes you need to accept reality. Race is at the forefront of our minds, like the post says. If only Brian Encinia had recognized that Sandra Bland’s attitude was really her anxiety and fear. Even if it’s unfair and insulting (and I can tell you, it feels very insulting when a black person is afraid of you for being a white cop) it’s a matter of competence to see it as an opportunity rather than a threat. This is the world as it is.

    If a black person is ‘revealed’ or reveals themselves to be conservative, that’s a risk they are taking, a bit of vulnerability, and I’m sorry people don’t put in the effort to understand that kind of thing as often as they should.

    Dustin (4237e0)


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