Patterico's Pontifications

7/8/2020

Sunshine State: Covid Rates Spike, Disney World To Reopen, GOP Convention Set For Jacksonville

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:57 am



[guest post by Dana]

In three days, Disney World Orlando will reopen:

Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., will welcome back visitors on Saturday even as coronavirus cases in Florida remain high. In doing so Disney is stepping into a politicized debate surrounding the virus and efforts to keep people safe, where even the wearing of masks has become a point of contention.

On Wednesday, Florida reported more than 9,900 new cases, bringing the state’s total to 223,775 cases over the course of the pandemic.

Visiting Disney World will be different: Parades, fireworks and most indoor shows have been suspended. There will be no opportunities to hug any costumed characters. Fingerprint scanners will not be used at park entrances.

“Covid is here,” Josh D’Amaro, Disney’s theme park chairman, said. “We have a responsibility to figure out the best approach to safely operate in this new normal.”

Would you feel safe enough to go?

Meanwhile, President Trump’s re-election campaign moved the GOP convention to Florida after first-choice North Carolina’s governor made it clear that there would be social distancing protocols in place by only allowing “a scaled-down convention with fewer people, social distancing and face coverings.”

As a result, Jacksonville, Florida has been selected as the host city for the convention:

In a television interview with… Trump suggested the format for the Aug. 24-27 event would depend on the severity of the outbreak in the Sunshine State.

“Well, we’re always looking at different things,” the president said on Tuesday. “When we signed in Jacksonville, we wanted to be in North Carolina. That almost worked out, but the governor didn’t want to have people use the arena, essentially. And so I said, ‘Too bad for North Carolina.’”

Trump said that when the RNC announced it was changing venues, Florida “looked good.”

“It’s spiking up a little bit,” he told Van Susteren. “And that’s going to go down. It really depends on the timing. Look, we’re very flexible. We can do a lot of things, but we’re very flexible.”

Imagine, here we are in the middle of a pandemic where the infection rate is climbing, and not only does the President of the United States not want to hold a convention in a state because their priority is to keep people safe and try to limit the rate of transmission, but he backhands them for doing so!

Interestingly, Florida’s Gov. DeSantis now finds himself in a bit of a tight spot:

Last week, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a close Trump ally, was forced to roll back the state’s reopening plans, imposing restrictions that include limiting the capacity of indoor facilities to 50 percent.

On Tuesday, DeSantis refused to say whether he would lift the mandate for the convention, which would limit it to 7,500 people. Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry, who lobbied for the city to host the event, announced Tuesday that he and his family are in self-quarantine after he was exposed to a person who tested positive for COVID-19.

The president has not yet commented on the protocols put in place by the Jacksonville 2020 Host Committee. These will include daily coronavirus tests and temperature checks for all attendees. Also, while Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry noted that “there is a statewide executive order that facilities can’t have over 50% capacity,” he said that the city will reassess that order when the convention dates draw near.

Note: Already there are five GOP senators who have said they will not attend the convention, with a few citing concerns about coronavirus.

Meanwhile, Florida hospitals are feeling the strain :

More than 40 Florida hospitals in multiple counties across the state have maxed out their ICU capacity or are close to running out of intensive care beds as the coronavirus outbreak across the Sunshine State worsens, according to the state’s Agency for Health Care Administration.

As of Tuesday, more than 5,000 Florida patients were using roughly 83% of the state’s more than 6,000 ICU beds, according to Florida’s health agency, which is responsible for licensing the state’s health-care facilities. That leaves a little more than 1,000 free ICU beds, compared with nearly 1,400 available ICU beds less than three weeks ago, according to CBS’ local affiliate WTSP.

Overall, the state’s hospitals are now running at 78% capacity, according to AHCA. ICU beds are running out at several hospitals in some of the state’s most-populated counties, including Miami-Dade County, Orange County, Hillsborough County and Broward County, which are respectively home to Miami, Orlando, Tampa and Fort Lauderdale.

Florida, which has more than 213,700 confirmed cases so far, is struggling with the third-worst outbreak in the country after New York and California.

–Dana

164 Responses to “Sunshine State: Covid Rates Spike, Disney World To Reopen, GOP Convention Set For Jacksonville”

  1. You couldn’t pay me enough money to go to Disney World or the convention. No way.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. It will be bard to find sponsors for the conventions. Corps aren’t going to want their names and logo’s associated with what could become a debacle.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  3. Republican convention: Nobody knows what’s going to be with that, but Trump may not get the spectacle he wants.

    In Japan, the Wall Street Journal indicates, they have controlled the spread of the coronavirus very well. They ran an Op-ed article today by Yasutoshi Nishimura, Japan’s minister in charge of Covid-19 response (as well as minister of state for economic revitalization.) He indicates that is because they watch out for the right things.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-japan-beat-coronavirus-without-lockdowns-11594163172

    First of all, it couldn’t be just health insurance. And it isn’t really masks, or bowing. One thing it was, when they do tracing, they trace it back to before people developed symptoms, (“retrospective tracing”) and when they did that, they discovered where the outbreaks were connected and what conditions led to a cluster.

    Second, we developed a guide for avoiding high-risk situations. We call them the “three Cs”: closed spaces, crowded places and close-contact settings, especially those involving loud talking. These settings all pose a major risk of infection. Today, thanks to extensive public-awareness campaigns, even children in Japan know to avoid them.

    These could all be places where a person culd be exposed to a large quantity of the virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  4. Re; Japan.

    The New York Times has run a couple of stories about thw limiteed spread of Covid-19 in Japan over the months, not always attributing it to the same causes.

    On March 27, they said it was maybe luck, or bowing and washing hands.

    On May 30, they said they didn’t know, and offered a couple of ideas, but said it wasn’t testing because they weren’t doing very much testing.

    On June 7, they said it was masks.

    It should be noted that Japan has its own version of hydroxychloroquine – a drug – Avigan – an antiviral anti-flu drug made by Fujifilm – generic name favipiravir – that is being promoted by the Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe. That ran May 6. The article was somewhat skeptical.

    But now we have this

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  5. Here’s another article I read just yesterday:

    BBC – Coronavirus: Japan’s mysteriously low virus death rate

    https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/coronavirus-japans-mysteriously-low-virus-235318679.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw&__twitter_impression=true
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  6. Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
    …..Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

    This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.

    “They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
    …..
    Sweden put stock in the sensibility of its people as it largely avoided imposing government prohibitions. The government allowed restaurants, gyms, shops, playgrounds and most schools to remain open. …..

    More than three months later, the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
    ……
    Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.
    …..

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  7. 1.You couldn’t pay me enough money to go to Disney World or the convention. No way.

    W/Disney it’s usually the other way around– you can’t pay them enough to get into the place. 😉

    “There’s not a lot at Disney World that’s free. However, unlike at Universal Studios and some other theme parks, your Disney World park tickets will give you access to the FastPass+ ride queue skipping system. That means you’ll be able to reserve up to three rides per day ahead of time where your family will only have to wait in a relatively short line. With just the basics, I was able to put together a family trip for $2,925.15.”- source, thepointsguy.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. One of the more intriguing (and rare positive) aspects of the virus is how different it is compared to the 1918 Flu pandemic in regards to death rates of younger people.

    Check out the comparative death rates per age. In the 1918 pandemic, infants were just as decimated as those over 85 and young adults were also high risk. COVID is totally different for those under 70.

    https://twitter.com/DuaneSchulthess/status/1280717471671033856?s=20
    _

    However, not everyone thinks this is good:

    Bloomberg News headline yesterday:

    A Lower COVID-19 Death Rate Is Nothing To Celebrate

    https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1280849177761759232?s=20
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  9. Part of me says, give Trump what he wants: Sign the CV19 waivers, pack the arena, screw the masks and sing it loud. We’ll see what happens. The responsible part of me says, for the societal good, if they’re going to go, wear the masks and keep the arena at 25% capacity and pray there’s no superspread.
    As for Disneyland, I’m not sure who would want to go there wearing a mask on a muggy 90-degree day.

    Paul Montagu (c9d3c1)

  10. From link @5.

    Tokyo University professor Tatsuhiko Kodama – who studies how Japanese patients react to the virus – believes Japan may have had Covid before. Not Covid-19, but something similar that could have left behind “historical immunity”.

    That’s true for well over half of the world’s population!! Japan would not be unique there.

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200623/Antibodies-against-prevalent-endemic-human-coronaviruses-may-provide-cross-protection-to-SARS-CoV-2.aspx

    A total of four endemic human coronaviruses are frequently associated with respiratory illness in humans, rarely causing anything more serious than a common cold. However, in addition to these ‘benign’ species, three epidemic coronaviruses have emerged in humans over the last two decades.

    These include severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), and now severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) – the etiological agent of the ongoing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

    Thus far, several studies have suggested that endemic human coronaviruses can induce broadly cross-reactive T cell responses, affecting clinical outcomes of acute infections with the phylogenetically related epidemic viruses (namely MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2).

    The immunity is long-lasting (at keast if the infection was serious)

    https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26038/20200612/common-cold-give-covid-19-immunity-lasting-up-17-years.htm

    They discovered that patients who survived the SARS lung virus in 2003 had immune responses to COVID-19 antibodies.

    SARS is extinct but was serious and is something like 87% identical with SARS-CoV-2

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  11. If the Florida spike continues until August, Trump would be in a pickle. Two options: he would have to choose, not just another Republican-friendly state to host the RNC but a state that has a sufficient number of Republican residents, has the infrastructure in place necessary to host thousands upon thousands of out-of-county/state attendees, and it would have to be a state whose Covid numbers were on the wane, rather than on the rise. The other option is, the campaign sticks with Florida — but will Trump submit to the Mayor’s protocols, including a mandatory requirement that attendees wear masks? Or will he take his ball and find yet another playground?

    Dana (25e0dc)

  12. Part of me says, give Trump what he wants: Sign the CV19 waivers, pack the arena, screw the masks and sing it loud. We’ll see what happens. The responsible part of me says, for the societal good, if they’re going to go, wear the masks and keep the arena at 25% capacity and pray there’s no superspread.
    As for Disneyland, I’m not sure who would want to go there wearing a mask on a muggy 90-degree day.

    Paul Montagu (c9d3c1) — 7/8/2020 @ 1:42 pm

    Plenty of Americans are bravely living up to their own words, refusing masks, going to parties, and that would be cool except, of course, this will spread disease.

    Part of the problem is that this is so politicized and democrats are insisting the BLM protests didn’t spread disease. It is so easy to point to this and roll eyes at the fear of Trump rallies doing the same thing. And Trump supporters already have been fed so much information about how they cannot trust information they hear from practically anybody. Add in this very human notion ‘it could never happen to me’ and here we are.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  13. Question number the 1) do the R’s even need a convention? What is the point in the case of an incumbent and what is the underlying function? Question number the 2) can that function be served some other way?

    I don’t know the answers to either of those. I’ve always suspected politics in general involved a lot of money laundering and conventions were part of that, i.e. everyone gets together and figures out how to spend donated money on hookers and drugs.

    My understanding is that according to the D rules they still need to do some sort of voting that also has the advantage of getting everyone together to spend money on hookers and drugs.

    I’m sympathetic to the economic plight that COVID has created for hookers and drug dealers but maybe it’s time to reconsider this approach.

    frosty (f27e97)

  14. 9. Paul Montagu (c9d3c1) — 7/8/2020 @ 1:42 pm

    . Part of me says, give Trump what he wants: Sign the CV19 waivers, pack the arena, screw the masks and sing it loud. We’ll see what happens.

    By that time, they may have a 99% effective treatment:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/regeneron-coronavirus-antibody-drug-bn/index.html

    You know something? They could enroll them in a trial (except that a trial gives half the people a placebo. But they could arrange fr anybody who got hospitalized to get it.)

    The big problem is that they are not stepping up – enough production of these antibodies.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/antibodies-can-be-the-bridge-to-a-vaccine-11593969735

    One promising option is monoclonal antibodies—lab-produced molecules engineered to mimic antibodies that occur naturally in response to an infection or vaccine. Like natural antibodies, the lab versions bind to the virus and prevent its spread. Regeneron, Vir, Eli Lilly and others are developing this class of drugs for Covid. Several are in clinical trials.

    The trick will be producing them at scale. For a cautionary tale, consider the antiviral drug remdesivir, which has shown benefits against Covid and is authorized for use by the Food and Drug Administration. Supply wasn’t ramped up enough in advance, so there may be shortages as the epidemic worsens. It’s important not to repeat that mistake with antibodies.

    As for virus testing, I think alot more people will be amenable to the saliva test used by professional golfers.

    https://golf.com/news/pga-tour-at-home-coronavirus-test

    The Tour said this week in its “Participant Resource Guide 2020” that “it is strongly recommended that every player/caddie take an at-home Covid-19 test prior to travel. The test will give individuals an immediate indication as to whether they have contracted the virus and should begin self-quarantine at home.”

    It;s dnne with the help of a medical practitioner from Vault Health over a Zoom video call. It could also be done at site, although he PGA was not initially using it there, but the players objected to the nose swab.

    Or maybe they could just get some dogs.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  15. 13. frosty (f27e97) — 7/8/2020 @ 1:55 pm

    Question number the 1) do the R’s even need a convention? What is the point in the case of an incumbent and what is the underlying function?

    TV coverage, rallying the troops, informal business, and Trump wants to experience

    Question number the 2) can that function be served some other way?

    Not only it can, but it will be. The legal formal business will be done by asmall group of people in Charlotte, North Carolina.

    I don’t know the answers to either of those. I’ve always suspected politics in general involved a lot of money laundering and conventions were part of that, i.e. everyone gets together and figures out how to spend donated money on hookers and drugs.

    It’s probably not that bad.

    Conventions used to mean things, till about 1952-1968.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  16. Trump will accept the GOP nomination at the convention in front of an estimated 50,000 people. Let’s face it, that’s really why it’s so important to him to be in front of a live audience, in spite of the pandemic.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  17. About the dog test for infection:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/21/winning-by-a-nose-the-dogs-being-trained-to-detect-signs-of-covid-19

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/17/fact-check-can-dogs-sniff-out-coronavirus-maybe/3204745001/

    The problem is that they have too few dogs. And it’s not established. But the Republicans could arrange for their use at the convention. They should be able to get enough of them for the Republican National Convention. We’d find out also how early they can detect it.

    Of course, questions arise:

    1. What if a dog gets infected?

    2. Wkat if the dog test spreads the disease a little?

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  18. Houston convention center operator cancels in-person Texas GOP meeting
    The Republican Party of Texas’ in-person convention next week has been canceled, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner said Wednesday.

    The news came after Turner directed the city’s legal department to work with the Houston First Corp., which operates the George R. Brown Convention Center, to review the contract with the state party.

    Turner said officials with Houston First sent a letter this afternoon to the State Republican Executive Committee, the state party’s governing board, canceling the gathering, which was set to happen July 16-18 and was expected to draw roughly 6,000 attendees.
    …….
    Before Turner’s announcement Wednesday afternoon, (State Republican Party Chair James) Dickey criticized Turner for “seeking to deny a political Party’s critical electoral function” after the mayor recently allowed protesters to demonstrate there “without any of the safety precautions and measures we have taken.”
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  19. 16. Dana (25e0dc) — 7/8/2020 @ 2:09 pm

    Trump will accept the GOP nomination at the convention in front of an estimated 50,000 people. Let’s face it, that’s really why it’s so important to him to be in front of a live audience, in spite of the pandemic.

    Trump could at least do it outdoors, like Obama did in 2008. Are they even thinking of that yet?

    https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/obama-picks-stadium-for-acceptance-speech

    The Democratic National Convention Committee and the Obama campaign announced on Monday that they would break with tradition and move the final day of convention activities, including the acceptance speech, from the Pepsi Center in Denver to Invesco Field, home of the Denver Broncos, which can hold more than 75,000. The Pepsi Center seats about 20,000.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  20. Nowhere is all the Ginned-up hysteria over Florida’s CV-19 is it noted that Florida with over 20 million people, had a grand total of 63 CV-19 deaths yesterday.

    NY and NJ had 75 deaths. Cumulatively, almost 48,000 people died in NY/NJ of CV-19 with Deaths/million of 1,700. Florida? They have 3,800 deaths and 170/deaths per million. That’s 10% of the NY/NJ rate. Well, what about CASES? Florida has 180 thousand. NJ/NY has 465,000 or almost 3 times as many.

    Just talking about CV-19 cases is irrelevant. All this lockdown is just flattening the curve. We only have two way out, build up herd immunity or develop a vaccine – assuming we ever do. We can all stay in our basements with a mask on until 2024 or we can start building up herd immunity.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  21. after the mayor recently allowed protesters to demonstrate there “without any of the safety precautions and measures we have taken.”
    ……

    It would take courage for a Houston mayor to say ‘knock these protests off during a pandemic, here’s some online way to do it’

    But it could have saved some lives. Even if the protesters refused, the notion of fairness matters tremendously. Democrats have had a lot of opportunities, Joe Biden chief among them, to speak powerfully about how the pandemic and the protests relate.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  22. Just talking about CV-19 cases is irrelevant. All this lockdown is just flattening the curve. We only have two way out, build up herd immunity or develop a vaccine – assuming we ever do. We can all stay in our basements with a mask on until 2024 or we can start building up herd immunity.

    rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/8/2020 @ 2:23 pm

    This is wrong. South Korea, Japan & most of western Europe have driven the case count very very low.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  23. In Florida and Calf, over 70% of the cases are people under 55. And they represent 7% of the deaths. Unless you have a serious medical condition, getting CV-19 for young people is no worse than a bad flu. Now, the flu kills young people every year, but we don’t even talk about that. We just accept it.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  24. #22 that’s because they are on the downward slope of the curve. We don’t have ONE curve in the USA, we have several. Florida’s curve will soon be on the downside too.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  25. But it could have saved some lives. Even if the protesters refused, the notion of fairness matters tremendously. Democrats have had a lot of opportunities, Joe Biden chief among them, to speak powerfully about how the pandemic and the protests relate.

    Votes matter more. DeBlasio has instructed contact tracers to *not* ask whether the individual went to a protest. It’s public health being sacrificed on the alter of politics. By both parties. No one’s hands are clean. Both Trump and Biden could have made a strong showing for *all* Americans, but instead their craven need for more votes prevented them from doing so.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  26. @24 I hope you’re right

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  27. Nowhere is all the Ginned-up hysteria over Florida’s CV-19 is it noted that Florida with over 20 million people, had a grand total of 63 3,888 CV-19 deaths yesterday in total so far.

    Fixed it.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  28. I won’t go to Disney because of the company that runs it. I’d go to plenty of other places like I just did Colonial Williamsburg without issue.

    NJRob (a9abe6)

  29. I wish someone would actually create a flow chart for each of Pence’s answers at a news conference. How that guy can avoid an answer while simultaneously adding a dozen talking points as well as multiple Trump compliments…. is just mind numbing.

    Today, he spoke about the great work the President has done to provide millions of PPE while also suggesting that medical professionals find ways to use them over and over. Vice President Unctuous.

    noel (4d3313)

  30. Health official: Trump rally ‘likely’ source of virus surge
    President Donald Trump’s campaign rally in Tulsa that drew thousands of people in late June, along with large protests that accompanied it, “likely contributed” to a dramatic surge in new coronavirus cases, Tulsa City-County Health Department Director Dr. Bruce Dart said Wednesday.

    Tulsa County reported 261 confirmed new cases on Monday, a one-day record high, and another 206 cases on Tuesday.

    Although the health department’s policy is to not publicly identify individual settings where people may have contracted the virus, Dart said those large gatherings “more than likely” contributed to the spike.

    “In the past few days, we’ve seen almost 500 new cases, and we had several large events just over two weeks ago, so I guess we just connect the dots,” Dart said.
    ……

    …..[T]he total number of confirmed cases in the state to 17,893. The actual number of infections is thought to be much higher because many people haven’t been tested and some who get the disease don’t show symptoms.
    ……
    The health department also reported three additional COVID-19 deaths, bringing the statewide death toll to 407.
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  31. RCocean
    Florida figures are being manipulated. I saw a nugget last night.
    Deaths from pneumonia for [if my memory is correct] the month of June last year were just over 900. For the same period this year pneumonia is given as the cause of death for a little over 4100 people. That’s about 4200 deaths that can be reasonably attributed to Covid19.
    And we are on the upswing still in cases and hospitalizations. Comparisons to New York are very premature.

    Kishnevi (586dbe)

  32. BBC – Coronavirus: Japan’s mysteriously low virus death rate

    Or it’s not mysterious, Japan’s is very low, South Korea and Vietnam, very low, what do they have in common…hint its not the double eyelid. Every country with extensive cultural affinity for wearing face masks, has an exceedingly lower infection rate, full stop. You want to look at an extreme, look at Taiwan. It has extremely close travel ties to China, and everywhere else in Asia, and they’ve only had 7 total deaths out of 24M, none in over 2 months. None.

    No, it’s not magical, and Aso using mindo supremacy also isn’t true…and its just as racist as a David Duke’ism. It has to do more with the general cultural approach to life and interaction with people. The mainstream Asian cultures are, in many ways, extremely traditional, outwardly humble, especially in public, and Japan, SK, and Taiwan are it’s among the most developed countries, with the highest level of medical care available, but Vietnam isn’t. They don’t have the same cultural reverence for thumbing their nose at common sense just because the gubmint is the one saying the words either.

    You know what would flatten, then drop, the curve here, wearing a freakin’ mask, wash your hands, and stay out of indoor places, especially in indoor places where you are yelling at each other, choirs, bars, conventions

    It’s common sense.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  33. Frosty, the DNC has said it will do as much of its convention online/remotely as possible.

    Kishnevi (586dbe)

  34. 21. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/8/2020 @ 2:25 pm

    It would take courage for a Houston mayor to say ‘knock these protests off during a pandemic, here’s some online way to do it’

    It wasn’t just protests.

    It was the funeral services for George Floyd.

    In New York it seems to have little effect. But the death toll per day got down to 5 before rising to 11. It was 11 (I think again) on Tuesday.

    https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/latest-coronavirus-updates-in-new-york-wednesday-july-8-2020

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  35. They flattened the curve. And now, they are going to do it again! The White House.

    noel (4d3313)

  36. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/8/2020 @ 2:58 pm

    You know what would flatten, then drop, the curve here, wearing a freakin’ mask, wash your hands, and stay out of indoor places, especially in indoor places where you are yelling at each other, choirs, bars, conventions…

    Some of that is true, but washing hands is a complete mistake, which the AHO and others d not want to correct..

    In Japan they sau:

    1) Closed spaces

    2) Crowded places

    and

    3) Close-contact settings.

    (not sure what the difference is between 2 and 3 except maybe the number of people involved. You could have close contact with no more than other person at a time.

    The virus does not spread from surfaces. They had to make that mistake in order to exxplain why someone more than 6 feet away from an infected person could get it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html

    But the infection prevention and control committee in particular, experts said, is bound by a rigid and overly medicalized view of scientific evidence, is slow and risk-averse in updating its guidance and allows a few conservative voices to shout down dissent.

    “They’ll die defending their view,” said one longstanding W.H.O. consultant, who did not wish to be identified because of her continuing work for the organization….

    ….“If we started revisiting airflow, we would have to be prepared to change a lot of what we do,” she said. “I think it’s a good idea, a very good idea, but it will cause an enormous shudder through the infection control society.”

    In early April, a group of 36 experts on air quality and aerosols urged the W.H.O. to consider the growing evidence on airborne transmission of the coronavirus. The agency responded promptly, calling Lidia Morawska, the group’s leader and a longtime W.H.O. consultant, to arrange a meeting.

    But the discussion was dominated by a few experts who are staunch supporters of handwashing and felt it must be emphasized over aerosols, according to some participants, and the committee’s advice remained unchanged.

    Dr. Morawska and others pointed to several incidents that indicate airborne transmission of the virus, particularly in poorly ventilated and crowded indoor spaces. They said the W.H.O. was making an artificial distinction between tiny aerosols and larger droplets, even though infected people produce both.

    “We’ve known since 1946 that coughing and talking generate aerosols,” said Linsey Marr, an expert in airborne transmission of viruses at Virginia Tech.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  37. 1. You couldn’t pay me enough money to set foot in that socialist sh!thole Commiefornia with or without the ‘Rona.

    Gryph (08c844)

  38. Florida figures are being manipulated. I saw a nugget last night.

    Also, remember that Florida is also not publicly disclosing even hospitalizations. I was on a call all day with the CIO of a 1000 bed hospital in Florida, and their ICU is at capacity, zero ventilators, the thing we don’t talk about anymore, and they’re using them less now, and staff at over 150% of work capacity now, so they’ll be burned out shortly. They’re losing between $10M-$30M a day in revenue. One of the reasons why they’re not going out of their way to correct the Governor is that they are being told that a funding bill is going to be forthcoming from Congress that will give state governments money to pay into hospital systems, and they are very realistic that if they come out and publicly contradict DeSantis he’ll delay they’re payment. CARES gave $100B to hospital relief, but hospitals are losing $50B a month in revenue, and https://www.modernhealthcare.com/finance/nyc-systems-report-millions-dollars-losses-due-covid-19 could be double that.

    Individual hospitals are releasing their numbers, but not deaths, which are lagging being calculated by the county health department, Hillsborough County is running between 10 and 17 days behind in getting death certifications out. So depending on the county you’re in, what your seeing now was the end, or middle, of June. AND deaths from Covid lag infection by 2-3 weeks, so you’re basically seeing Memorial Day infections hitting the numbers now. Florida is especially bad at this, by design, but other states are being overwhelmed as well.

    Even the CDC is acknowledging it, up to 8 weeks (or more) to get to them.

    Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  39. I had ahhhate! the iPhone keyboard!!

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  40. “ You couldn’t pay me enough money to set foot in that socialist sh!thole Commiefornia with or without the ‘Rona.”

    – Gryph

    It’s no South Dakota, that’s for sure.

    Leviticus (681fa7)

  41. “Sweden has captured international attention”
    __

    On their immigration fail?

    A new report from the Swedish Defence University warns that clan structures in some immigrant areas are putting the Swedish justice system under ‘severe stress’. In these parallel societies, the Swedish state is weak, witness intimidation is systematic and ordinary citizens are pressured to submit to clan rule.

    Sweden’s gangs, which mainly operate out of the country’s socioeconomically weak immigrant neighbourhoods, do not only use explosives to assert their dominance. Sweden had 45 fatal shootings in so-called criminal environments last year — a tenfold increase in one generation.

    By contrast, Norway has fewer than three such shootings a year. According to the newspaper Dagens Nyheter, nine out of ten perpetrators of Sweden’s gang shootings are either first- or second-generation immigrants. The country has gone from having among the lowest rates of violent crime in western Europe to one of the highest. When it comes to bombings, no other developed country in the world which is not at war has experienced anything like Sweden’s epidemic.“

    Why are there so many bomb attacks in Sweden?

    https://app.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/bomb-attacks-are-now-a-normal-part-of-swedish-life/pugpig_index.html
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  42. Gryph,

    The post is referencing Disney World reopening in Florida, not Disneyland in California.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  43. I’ve been to all three many times. South Dakota, California and Florida. If you’re nice to people, generally they are friendly too. True…. even in NYC.

    noel (4d3313)

  44. I suppose Gryph is speaking more of their government. But since he is living in a suburb of the land of a thousand taxes…. not sure he’d see that much difference.

    noel (4d3313)

  45. Maybe Grumph should be reminded of those commie farm subsidies too.

    noel (4d3313)

  46. 39… make that…

    Ahh said ahh… ahh hate! ahh said ahh hate teh iPhone keyboad!!

    — Colonel Foghorn Leghorn

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  47. 42. Florida is for retirees and beach bunnies. I am neither. Since I will not be flying while the TSA is administering airport security, I probably won’t be in Florida anytime soon, either.

    44. The land of a thousand taxes?! Whiskey tango foxtrot are you talking about? Most of our government here runs on property taxes and sales taxes. Along with Florida, South Dakota is rather conspicuous in its lack of a state income tax.

    45. I’m not a farmer. I’m a city boy through and through. That said, I think that the modern farm bill process has done more to hurt Joe and Jane Farmer than it has done to help. You city slickers don’t need to remind me of that twice.

    Gryph (08c844)

  48. Arizona is down to 135 ICU beds. Contrary to the task force claim today, that’s being generous, the positivity rate is not flattening, yesterday was the record, 32% positive. Of the Covid patients in the ICU today, most tested positive more than a week ago. They’re at 96% capacity, up 50% in the last 25 days.

    Plus, even if it were flattening (it’s not), flat at over 25% is horrible, terrible, no good news. That’s like saying if you jump out of an airplane without a parachute and you reach terminal velocity “it’s fine, I can’t fall any faster”.

    They also claimed that emergency room visits are down, also another lie.

    But again, that’s not happening, the more they’re testing, the more they’re finding, at a higher rate, because the infection isn’t static, it’s going exponential. No masks, open indoor dining, bars, a 2-3 week lag in infection incubation, little testing=bad, bad, bad.

    And the press conference was supposed to be about planning to open schools in the fall. They all said having kids in school was the goal. That means the outcome of the plan. The plan…hope. Yup, from Pence to Birx, the plan is hope, what actions to take, well, the CDC will be changing their guidelines in the future, maybe, because the current guidelines had a toddler in the White House complaining that reality isn’t cooperating with his tweeter feed.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  49. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Vice President, the guidance recommends that schools have social distancing of students six feet apart. And that’s why these schools are adopting these hybrid models is because they don’t feel they can keep students six feet apart within their building. So I’m just wondering if that particular part of the guidance is something you’re rethinking or do you support that social distancing inside schools because that’s where schools I think are having trouble?

    PENCE: Well, the President said today, we just don’t want the guidance to be too tough. And that’s the reason why next week, CDC is going to be issuing a new set of tools, five different documents that have been giving even more clarity on the guidance going forward. But we know each school system, you know, has unique capabilities, different facilities, and what parents around the country should know is that we’re here to help. We’re here to work with their governors, with their local education officials to get our kids back to school. I mean, the truth of the matter is that as we reopen America, we’ve got to, we got to reopen our schools, for the well being of our kids, for their academic advancement, for working families, but also, as you’ve heard again, today, for to continue the momentum that we see in this economy that we saw last week with nearly 5 million jobs created.

    I want to promise the American people we’re going to stay focused at this task force on saving lives, meeting the needs of our state and our healthcare workers on protecting the vulnerable and reopening America’s economy, schools, work, and worship. So thank you all very much. We’ll talk to you in a few days.

    Remember when…

    We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  50. 49. You’d really compare going to the moon with reopening schools after an off-kilter flu season? This is why we can’t have nice things, America. SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  51. @47 a city boy in South Dakota? The biggest “city” has 150k people, that’s a small suburb of Los Angeles. You’re a townie at best.

    Manotaur (b0f0b2)

  52. 51. I’m a city boy in the sense that I’ve never lived on a farm, Mano. I happen to live in the third-largest city in the state, but I’m painfully aware that’s all relative. South Dakota has fewer people statewide than any of the individual boroughs of New York City.

    Gryph (08c844)

  53. Trump says he’s ‘flexible’ on Jacksonville’s RNC convention, amid rising COVID-19 cases
    Amid Florida’s restrictions on public gatherings and an exploding caseload of COVID-19 patients, President Donald Trump says he’s now “flexible” on his original plans to hold a large Republican National Convention in Jacksonville.
    ……
    “Well, we’re always looking at different things. When we signed in Jacksonville, we wanted to be in North Carolina. That almost worked out, but the governor didn’t want to have people use the arena, essentially. And so I said, ‘Too bad for North Carolina,’ “ Trump told (Greta) Van Susteren…..
    …..
    Trump said that when the RNC announced it was changing venues from Charlotte to Jacksonville on June 11, Florida “looked good.” And even if cases are spiking up, he expects “that’s going to go down.”
    …..
    Last Monday, June 29, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry, a Republican, enacted a mandatory mask requirement for public and indoor spaces in Duval County.
    ……
    But the prospects of a packed summer convention at the Veterans Memorial Arena, which holds up to 15,000 people, could vanish in the weeks leading up to the event as Florida emerges as the latest epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic.
    ……
    (Gov. Ron) DeSantis refused to answer shouted questions from a reporter in Miami on Tuesday about whether he would lift the current capacity restrictions for the convention, which would limit the crowd to 50 percent at the Veterans Arena — just 7,500 attendees.
    …..

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  54. You’d really compare going to the moon with reopening schools after an off-kilter flu season? This is why we can’t have nice things, America. SMDH

    Yeah, going to the moon is hard, reopening schools should be easier. You know the guidelines that were too tough?

    Staying Home when Appropriate

    Educate staff and families about when they/their child(ren) should stay home and when they can return to school.

    Actively encourage employees and students who are sick or who have recently had close contact with a person with COVID-19 to stay home. Develop policies that encourage sick employees and students to stay at home without fear of reprisal, and ensure employees, students, and students’ families are aware of these policies. Consider not having perfect attendance awards, not assessing schools based on absenteeism, and offering virtual learning and telework options, if feasible.

    Staff and students should stay home if they have tested positive for or are showing COVID-19 symptoms.

    Staff and students who have recently had close contact with a person with COVID-19 should also stay home and monitor their health.

    CDC’s criteria can help inform when employees should return to work:
    If they have been sick with COVID-19
    If they have recently had close contact with a person with COVID-19
    Hand Hygiene and Respiratory Etiquette
    Teach and reinforce handwashing with soap and water for at least 20 seconds and increase monitoring to ensure adherence among students and staff.
    If soap and water are not readily available, hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol can be used (for staff and older children who can safely use hand sanitizer).
    Encourage staff and students to cover coughs and sneezes with a tissue. Used tissues should be thrown in the trash and hands washed immediately with soap and water for at least 20 seconds.
    If soap and water are not readily available, hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol can be used (for staff and older children who can safely use hand sanitizer).

    Cloth Face Coverings
    Teach and reinforce use of cloth face coverings. Face coverings may be challenging for students (especially younger students) to wear in all-day settings such as school. Face coverings should be worn by staff and students (particularly older students) as feasible, and are most essential in times when physical distancing is difficult. Individuals should be frequently reminded not to touch the face covering and to wash their hands frequently. Information should be provided to staff, students, and students’ families on proper use, removal, and washing of cloth face coverings.

    Note: Cloth face coverings should not be placed on:
    Children younger than 2 years old
    Anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious
    Anyone who is incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the cloth face covering without assistance
    Cloth face coverings are meant to protect other people in case the wearer is unknowingly infected but does not have symptoms. Cloth face coverings are not surgical masks, respirators, or other medical personal protective equipment.

    Adequate Supplies

    Support healthy hygiene behaviors by providing adequate supplies, including soap, hand sanitizer with at least 60 percent alcohol (for staff and older children who can safely use hand sanitizer), paper towels, tissues, disinfectant wipes, cloth face coverings (as feasible) and no-touch/foot-pedal trash cans.

    Cleaning and Disinfection

    Clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces (e.g., playground equipment, door handles, sink handles, drinking fountains) within the school and on school buses at least daily or between use as much as possible. Use of shared objects (e.g., gym or physical education equipment, art supplies, toys, games) should be limited when possible, or cleaned between use.

    If transport vehicles (e.g., buses) are used by the school, drivers should practice all safety actions and protocols as indicated for other staff (e.g., hand hygiene, cloth face coverings). To clean and disinfect school buses or other transport vehicles, see guidance for bus transit operators.
    Develop a schedule for increased, routine cleaning and disinfection.

    Ensure safe and correct use and storage of cleaning and disinfection products, including storing products securely away from children. Use products that meet EPA disinfection criteria.

    Cleaning products should not be used near children, and staff should ensure that there is adequate ventilation when using these products to prevent children or themselves from inhaling toxic fumes.

    Shared Objects

    Discourage sharing of items that are difficult to clean or disinfect.
    Keep each child’s belongings separated from others’ and in individually labeled containers, cubbies, or areas.

    Ensure adequate supplies to minimize sharing of high touch materials to the extent possible (e.g., assigning each student their own art supplies, equipment) or limit use of supplies and equipment by one group of children at a time and clean and disinfect between use.

    Avoid sharing electronic devices, toys, books, and other games or learning aids.

    Ventilation

    Ensure ventilation systems operate properly and increase circulation of outdoor air as much as possible, for example by opening windows and doors. Do not open windows and doors if doing so poses a safety or health risk (e.g., risk of falling, triggering asthma symptoms) to children using the facility.

    Water Systems

    To minimize the risk of Legionnaire’s disease and other diseases associated with water, take steps to ensure that all water systems and features (e.g., sink faucets, drinking fountains, decorative fountains) are safe to use after a prolonged facility shutdown. Drinking fountains should be cleaned and sanitized, but encourage staff and students to bring their own water to minimize use and touching of water fountains.

    Modified Layouts

    Space seating/desks at least 6 feet apart when feasible.
    Turn desks to face in the same direction (rather than facing each other), or have students sit on only one side of tables, spaced apart.
    Create distance between children on school buses (g., seat children one child per row, skip rows) when possible.

    Physical Barriers and Guides

    Install physical barriers, such as sneeze guards and partitions, particularly in areas where it is difficult for individuals to remain at least 6 feet apart (e.g., reception desks).
    Provide physical guides, such as tape on floors or sidewalks and signs on walls, to ensure that staff and children remain at least 6 feet apart in lines and at other times (e.g. guides for creating “one way routes” in hallways).

    Communal Spaces

    Close communal use shared spaces such as dining halls and playgrounds with shared playground equipment if possible; otherwise, stagger use and clean and disinfect between use.
    Add physical barriers, such as plastic flexible screens, between bathroom sinks especially when they cannot be at least 6 feet apart.

    Food Service

    Have children bring their own meals as feasible, or serve individually plated meals in classrooms instead of in a communal dining hall or cafeteria, while ensuring the safety of children with food allergies.

    Use disposable food service items (e.g., utensils, dishes). If disposable items are not feasible or desirable, ensure that all non-disposable food service items are handled with gloves and washed with dish soap and hot water or in a dishwasher. Individuals should wash their hands after removing their gloves or after directly handling used food service items.

    If food is offered at any event, have pre-packaged boxes or bags for each attendee instead of a buffet or family-style meal. Avoid sharing food and utensils and ensure the safety of children with food allergies.

    That’s the too tough guidance, it’s just too tough.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  55. @47 Most agriculture laws and subsidies aren’t meant for family farms, they are created by lobbiests to help out agribusiness.

    I support your right to live in SD over CA. I do not personally enjoy -70 in the winter 90% humidity in the summer, and tornadoes in between and I’m allergic to the entire dammed prairie, so it is not for me, but everyone has to find the right place for them and God knows there are enough people in CA, so you go for it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  56. 52. I feel like I would go stir crazy living anywhere that small. The least populated city I’ve ever lived in was Denver with about 1m people. I did work for a company with a remote office in Nebraska with 25k people and it was one of the most depressing places I’ve ever been to. Just a Walmart, Starbucks and endless bars.

    Manotaur (b0f0b2)

  57. 55. Fun fact: The single largest owner of grazing pasture in South Dakota west of the Missouri River is Ted Turner. Do you think that pompous blowhard has ever set one foot in South Dakota for one second?

    And as for “you do you,” I can’t believe how many people grudgingly settle for Governor Noisome’s “paradise” just because the weather is nice. I suppose we all must indeed decide on our values and priorities.

    Gryph (08c844)

  58. 54. I didn’t say the guidelines were too tough. Trump did. Do I need to remind you what I think about Donald Trump?

    And as for my thoughts on whether the guidance is too tough, I think the number of school districts that were seriously considering not opening in the Fall despite the guidance speaks for itself.

    Gryph (08c844)

  59. Trump’s last attendance at a Coronavirus briefing…April. Not the press conferences, an actual briefing. That was 70,000 US deaths ago.

    Russian bounties, nah, coronavirus, nah, he meets about…um…prolly something…walls?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  60. 59. 70,000 deaths ago, huh? That’s about eight and a half days worth of deaths from all other causes that aren’t CoViD-19, you know.

    Gryph (08c844)

  61. And as for my thoughts on whether the guidance is too tough, I think the number of school districts that were seriously considering not opening in the Fall despite the guidance speaks for itself.

    I was mostly talking about Trump, and the Veep today, beeching about the onerous recommendations to clean the school and have the kids wear masks.

    Fun fact about the petri dishes, I mean kids. Kids are the least likely to show symptoms, least likely to take precauses, most likely to transmit the virus. Of course, this isn’t new news, every school year they spread the bubons around that monkey in Outbreak.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  62. precauses–precautions

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  63. “OT but the Seattle mayor predicted a Summer of Love so what were the odds the highway protestors hit by a car were named Summer [Taylor] and [Diaz] Love?“

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. @54 Some of the guidelines are more doable than others if we are looking at returning to a 100% campus presence.

    Space is a significant challenge. There aren’t just empty classrooms hanging around and our budgets are getting cut anyway, no way to hire more staff even if we had more rooms. Most classrooms generally have 30-35 students (K-3 have fewer) and they are lucky to get 18 inches between desks, so social distancing is difficult. Students also need to eat lunch and finding the space to put between 400-2000 students at any given lunch time that allows social distancing is challenging. Locker rooms are a challenge for distancing. Students also don’t generally bother to social distance, at many levels they have No. Personal. Space.

    Bathrooms are absolutely necessary facilities, but they can’t be cleaned between every student and all the students are touching the same surfaces. We hope they wash their hands, but it isn’t like we monitor them in that way. (I cannot imagine the parent outrage if we stationed a staff member to stand in each restroom.)

    Masks are a challenge. I watched the board meeting last week and one of the parents spent their speaking time freaking out because their kid might be punished for not wearing a mask (then sign him up for distance learning, lady) and another spoke about how no one should wear masks because they interfere with children’s social-emotional wellbeing because they can’t see the other kids smile at them (no, I am not kidding).

    Quarantine is a challenge. Parents are not going to keep their kids home. One of the major concerns about not reopening schools at 100% is child care. If a parent doesn’t have childcare, they are going to send their child to school (after all, most kids aren’t that effected, right, who cares if the teachers might die. No, I am not bitter about the implications from that particular set of speakers, not at all.). They won’t get their kid tested and will lie and say their kid is fine.

    There is no one to replace quarantined teachers. Most subs are either retired teachers or education students on their way to a teaching credential. If you were over 55 and had your retirement pay, would you choose to substitute teach this year? No, no you would not.

    If a teacher comes down with the virus (and everyone who works in a school will. I can’t see any way that won’t happen) if we are back at 100% that means, at the secondary level, quarantining 150-170 students.

    Technology is a challenge. Most secondary schools don’t have a different computer for every single student, so, while they might not share within a class period, you have several students using each computer across the day. Same with desks and other classroom materials.

    Cleaning is a challenge. There is no way to wipe down every surface between students. If students were allowed to use cleaning chemicals, it might be possible, but in many places that is not legally allowed. Only adults can access the cleaning chemicals in classrooms. In CA even if you are an adult, in order to use cleaning chemicals in your classroom, you have to take a class on safe usage. (which is the stupidest thing, OMG.)

    The rest of the guidelines are more or less doable at 100% on campus capacity, but for some of the ones that are challenging, there is no way.

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. 37… hold on a minute… it’s spelled schiffhole and Caliunicornia

    Get it right !

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. 70,000 deaths ago, huh? That’s about eight and a half days worth of deaths from all other causes that aren’t CoViD-19, you know.

    If only the leaders wouldn’t have bothered to learn a bit about car accidents and the correlation between between seatbelt use and non-belted people, that other 50% of people who now don’t die because of seatbelts were meant to die.

    Some non-zero number of them didn’t have to die.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  67. ‘As for Disneyland, I’m not sure who would want to go there wearing a mask on a muggy 90-degree day.’

    As opposed to what the Right may believe about the Reagan Tomb in muggy Simi Valley, ‘Disneyland’ is still ‘The Happiest Place On Earth.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. ‘Remember when… We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.’

    Remember when… ‘remote learning’ worked–and worked very well:

    https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap13fj/15day4-mailbox.html

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. 66. Yeah, but it’s been quite a few years since I’ve heard, “I’ve never pulled a dead body out of a seatbelt” from a law enforcement officer. Seat belts reduce the chance of dying in a car accident, but they don’t eliminate it. And I’m a lot more certain of that than I am that masks do jack-sh!t to stop the transmission of CoViD-19.

    61. If school districts don’t open because they can’t or won’t meet the recommendations, I’d say that’s on them rather than Trump, don’t you think?

    Gryph (08c844)

  70. You better go knock some sense into these DPs, DCSCA…if travelers from the US aren’t barred from entry…

    http://news.yahoo.com/u-first-lady-melania-trump-202141678.html

    urbanleftbehind (395343)

  71. @70. Face it: She’s hot. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. 71. And when she is no longer eye candy, Donald will dump her just like his other wives.

    Gryph (08c844)

  73. @72. Jealous.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. An expat in berlin, where they put a lrominent constitutional expert in a psych ward for challenging the enabling law.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  75. Latter second term, he’ll be in the room with the false mirror watching someone else do the job.

    urbanleftbehind (395343)

  76. I’m more country than you, Gryph. I grew up on a family farm. And I like California. It raises some great Americans.

    noel (4d3313)

  77. The rest of the guidelines are more or less doable at 100% on campus capacity, but for some of the ones that are challenging, there is no way.

    That’s why all the schools in Ohio and Kentucky are going hybrid. A non hybrid approach is just lazy thinking.

    Now it’s figuring out the carrying capacity of a school, taking the common sense precautions, and starting with a realistic goal. They’re not even putting together a plan to approach a reality based goal, so they’re just betting on random chance and hope, and ensuring failure.

    There’s no ignoring the reality of Covid and just hoping it will be fine if they choose to “go back to normal”. There’s a truism, “When you argue with reality, who usually wins?”

    But that’s the Trump, embrace the failure.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  78. That’s not even checkers.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  79. 73. Not at all. I’d love to have a wife that hot, but if you really think she married Donald for money, I have a bridge to sell you.

    76. To each their own. It wasn’t always a socialist sh!thole.

    Fun fact: The city of Hollywood was chartered by a failed Christian commune seeking to escape the decadence of New York City. After the failure of the Hollywood commune, the nascent film industry located on the west coast to fill its need for large amounts of land, and Hollywood happened to have it in spades — quite cheaply, to boot.

    Gryph (08c844)

  80. No it took about two generations,demography and indoctrination the first part bill ayers has shepherded for nearly as long

    Narciso (7404b5)

  81. 81. *If you really think she married Donald for any reason other than money…

    Gryph (08c844)

  82. Alex Berenson, are you friggin’ serious? Well, obviously not. He’s too dumb to even be on Fox News streaming web

    In May 2020, Fox News announced that Berenson would host a tv-show called “COVID Contrarian” on its online streaming platform Fox Nation. However, by July 2020, amid surges in coronavirus cases across parts of the United States, Fox News appeared to have backtracked and removed the announcement of his show from its website.

    Any teacher too dumb to understand that she’s not going to get virus from her students, and/or too scared of doing the job for which she’s paid… should find another line of work.

    Notice the casual sexism along with the moronitude.

    Plus, his tweets are aging REALLY well.

    Are hospitals outside NYC full, or (in some cases) shutting from lack of patients? Have the models been revised down again and again? Have hospitalizations come in far below expectations? Have 16MM Americans filed for unemployment/

    Who’s denying reality, who’s living in it?

    And

    Why yes, yes they have, and twice that, and 3 times that, 3 weeks after this tweet, 44M.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  83. *If you really think she married Donald for any reason other than money…

    That’s why she held out for a new pre-nup before she agreed to go to Washington.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  84. @77 Most of the districts in my area are going back at a 50% model, though some are going all virtual and one is coming back 100% (dear God). I spent a significant part of the last 2 weeks in zoom meetings to hash out the actual realistic plan that the board looked at and a number of parents hated (does not meet their 100% capacity child care needs, screw safety). It squeaked by anyway.

    @78 I personally manage to change my socks and underwear every single day. Is there a reason why changing a mask every day would be more difficult than that?

    Nic (896fdf)

  85. i seriously doubt any numbers are being “Manipulated”. If anything the CV-19 deaths are overstated, since most states are reporting as CV-19 deaths anyone who dies with CV-19 virus, even if CV-19 did not cause the death. Under most reporting systems, George Floyd would’ve been reported as a CV-19 death because he had CV-19.

    In any case, I doubt this is a significant factor, all these claims of over and under reporting are background noise.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  86. I know of teachers and administrators who decided that this was the year to retire after all. The thoughts of navigating a Covid classroom and manage sites in some still unknown plan (or possible plan) is simply not worth it to them. And they are not at the magic 62/30 retirement mark yet, but still, they would rather do something else than try to cope with this.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  87. It should be noted, that no one seems to be counting all the excess deaths caused by the lock-down. Significant numbers of people put off minor surgery, or did not have annual check-out, cancer screenings, etc. and are now paying the price. I also wonder how many people are now suffering from emotional and mental problems caused by the lockdown destroying their jobs or businesses.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  88. I think if you’re a teacher over 55 and can retire, it’d probably be a good time to leave. The only reason to keep the schools shut down is protect older teachers and those with medical conditions. One less person in the high risk group, just makes it easier for the schools to implement the re-opening plan.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  89. The policies seem terribly ill considered, they dont protect the most vulnerable they have damaged our medical delivery system, it has twisted our supply chains, and has induced psychotic behavior.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  90. It should be noted, that no one seems to be counting all the excess deaths caused by the lock-down. Significant numbers of people put off minor surgery, or did not have annual check-out, cancer screenings, etc. and are now paying the price. I also wonder how many people are now suffering from emotional and mental problems caused by the lockdown destroying their jobs or businesses.

    Here’s your opportunity. What’s the number? Be specific.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  91. The policies seem terribly ill considered, they dont protect the most vulnerable they have damaged our medical delivery system, it has twisted our supply chains, and has induced psychotic behavior.

    What are “the policies”? Again, be specific.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  92. Dont give Mickey Kaus and David Frum ideas about an earlier start of Medicare, though maybe that and a federal teacher early retirement sweetener might be a chip to play in exchange for strict rapid reopening.

    I did have the same thoughts that ocean had, but in the context of HS football coaching and game attendance – maybe coaching positions should not require bachelors plus whichever ed endorsements would be needed…move the average age of the staff down and ensure sports can be conducted with a much younger cohort replacing the old timers who may not think it’s worth the risk.

    urbanleftbehind (395343)

  93. Well

    The top health official in Tulsa, Okla., said on Wednesday that a surge in cases in and around the city was probably connected to a contentious indoor campaign rally President Trump held there last month.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  94. Grand moff fauci has misgaugued every epidenic for nearly 40 years now.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  95. Does he understand the question

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdyBarkan/status/1280982615307116544

    Narciso (7404b5)

  96. @88 one of my sites has, so far, lost a quarter of it’s staff either to retirement or to the district homeschool program (teachers have a limited caseload of students they meet with individually once a week). I would not be surprised if that site lost more teachers to the new distance learning program or even to a 1 yr sabbatical (per contract union staff can take a 1 yr unpaid sabbatical every 10? yrs with guaranteed return to their former position after that year.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  97. In any case, I doubt this is a significant factor, all these claims of over and under reporting are background noise

    Link back to that figure of 3200 excess pneumonia deaths in Florida. If those were actually caused by Covid19, then the number of deaths in Florida is almost twice the official number (3890 at last report). I would call that a significant factor.

    Kishnevi (e8fd1a)

  98. Why do you assume that, compare the numbers with flu and pneumonia on a four year cycle.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  99. And I grew up in NYC, went to school in Manhattan and still live in the suburbs in NJ. I deal with countless people weekly, but love the quiet scenery and open spaces when I go camping, on vacation, etc.

    I just think many of us like the change of pace and I would love to live in a sleepy town and be able to raise a family where everyone in the community knew each other.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. 61. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/8/2020 @ 6:00 pm

    ds. Kids are the least likely to show symptoms,

    Correct.

    least likely to take precauses, [sic should probably be “precautions]”

    Probably true.

    most likely to transmit the virus.

    Not true. They practically do not transmit it.

    Another place the experts are wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  101. 89. rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/8/2020 @ 7:42 pm.

    It should be noted, that no one seems to be counting all the excess deaths caused by the lock-down Significant numbers of people put off minor surgery, or did not have annual check-out, cancer screenings, etc. and are now paying the price.

    Putting off surgery reduces the death rate. his is what happens every time there is a doctor’s strike. (where they stll treat emergencies)

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  102. Why do you assume that, compare the numbers with flu and pneumonia on a four year cycle.

    Why don’t you? wait, you’re still fighting with reality. For the years:
    2019 2,703
    2018 3,082
    2017 3,040
    2016 2,807
    2015 2,666
    2014 2,663
    2013 2,644
    2012 2,304
    2011 2,418
    2010 2,217
    2009 2,405
    2008 2,288
    2007 2,221
    2006 2,424
    2005 2,787
    2004 3,025
    2003 2,985
    2002 3,271
    2001 3,290
    2000 3,336
    1999 3,323
    1998 4,080
    1997 3,869
    1996 3,785
    1995 3,810
    1994 3,751
    1993 3,659
    1992 3,313
    1991 3,364
    1990 3,476
    1989 3,209
    1988 3,366
    1987 3,142
    1986 2,896

    Notice what all of those full years have more of? Also, today’s 3,889 doesn’t include all the deaths in the last 2-4 weeks due to reporting delays, and it’s still equal to the worst year out of the last 34. The first death was March 17th.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  103. most likely to transmit the virus.

    Not true. They practically do not transmit it.

    Another place the experts are wrong.

    Please, feel free to show any lack of propensity for kids to not transmit the virus. There is an abundance of “since we don’t test them often, and most testing says they prolly do because they are small humans, so good lord plan like they are exactly the same kind of incubators as every other respiratory illness

    Out of all 40M tests so far in the US, less than 25k of 0-4 cohort has been tested, they test positive @9% which is the second highest…behind the 5-17 cohort @11%, which there hasn’t been 50k tested. So not only are they the highest rates of infection, they are the least tested, and that has been true since the beginning of testing. For some reason you’re claiming little humans are not infectious, because…?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  104. @95: Oh, exactly Klink. The Tulsa rally caused the virus to surge, but the hundreds of protests, looting and rioting didn’t. Because this thing is so sophisticated and woke it knows the politics of its carrier and adjusts accordingly. Science!!!

    beer ‘n pretzels (1d265b)

  105. @95: Oh, exactly Klink. The Tulsa rally caused the virus to surge, but the hundreds of protests, looting and rioting didn’t. Because this thing is so sophisticated and woke it knows the politics of its carrier and adjusts accordingly. Science!!!

    That’s exactly what the Doctor who runs the health department says, hence the quote from the doctor. It’s weird how an event that exactly matches the definition of a super spreader, would be blamed for the super spreading. It’s certainly possible that the outdoor events with all of the masked people spread it some too, but of course two things can be true. It doesn’t take Nostradamus to predict it would happen, as many did and it has. But sure, could be lizard people or the blue aliens, less likely though.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  106. If Trump really wants to get people watching the GOP Convention, he should announce today that he is not running.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. 105. The truth is, we really don’t know. Assuming that asymptomatic transmission is a thing, kids absolutely are less likely to get sick from it. That can only help speed along the process of herd immunity.

    Gryph (08c844)

  108. You would have been useless at the eastern front, klink

    https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1281080679778803714

    Narciso (7404b5)

  109. Just what you would think.

    I just compared the eleven states that require mandatory mask usage (for more than a month) with the other states. Since each state’s requirements differ to some degree, the figures are rough estimates. The average positives to total tests in the mask states was 3%. National average is 8%. Non-mask states should therefore be about 9%.

    If someone has done this comparison, I have not seen it yet. I know that they are estimating that deaths will be significantly higher over the next 4 months if masks are not required. University of Washington estimates 45,000 higher, I believe.

    noel (4d3313)

  110. States that require masks may have other restrictions in place as well. Of course those restrictions could be impacting the number of positives.

    I imagine that using masks is the action least damaging to the economy. Why any politician would fail to encourage it’s use is beyond me.

    noel (4d3313)

  111. 111. Considering the number of deaths that was estimated for my home state (1250) vs. the number that have actually died so far (~98), I really can’t see a scenario in which future estimates would form a good basis for policy.

    Gryph (08c844)

  112. The Administration always has a backup excuse. They said it would go away. Then summer would end it. Then they flattened the curve. It’s just younger people. Now, the death rate is down.

    When all else fails…. herd immunity will be the only option left.

    noel (4d3313)

  113. Remember it was u washington and imperial college, who insisted ‘racism was worse than the virus’ so they burned their credibility in minneapolis

    Narciso (7404b5)

  114. @114, Gryph, what model was that and what was their time frame? One of the things that bugs me about modern reporting is that they’ll take a good faith estimate of something and report the most eye popping number with the caveat ‘as many as’ such as Tesla may sell as many as 500,000 model 3 in 2020. It’s possible if certain things happen, but it’s not the most likely number.

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  115. Remember it was u washington and imperial college, who insisted ‘racism was worse than the virus’ so they burned their credibility in minneapolis

    Narciso (7404b5) — 7/9/2020 @ 6:33 am

    They did. But you didn’t believe them before.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  116. That is what faucis own published research and public statements said at the time? So are you going to take the fraud ferguson as gospel.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  117. Well Gryph…. if Trump were to hold a few more rallies in South Dakota, you might get closer to that high initial death estimate.

    Initial projections are easily off by significant amounts. You know that. Do you stop seeing licensed physicians the second one of them gives you a misdiagnosis?

    noel (4d3313)

  118. They havent a gangrenous leg to standon. And yes exempting exposure to any disease soesnt strengthen the immune system.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  119. Has anyone compared all of Fauci’s predictions with Trump’s?

    noel (4d3313)

  120. He said one could take cruise ships and engage in other activities based on the published findings.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  121. That is what faucis own published research and public statements said at the time? So are you going to take the fraud ferguson as gospel.

    Narciso (7404b5) — 7/9/2020 @ 6:36 am

    You’re wrong.

    Dr. Anthony Fauci said that many of the protests against racism and police brutality taking place across the country, involving congregation of large crowds, raises the risk for transmission of COVID-19.

    Fauci told DC-radio station WTOP on Friday that “it is a perfect set-up for the spread of the virus in the sense of creating these blips that might turn into some surges.”

    Fauci emphasized that while protesters have a constitutional right to demonstrate, people gathering closely together, chanting, and possibly not wearing masks increases the likelihood of more outbreaks.

    “It’s a delicate balance, because the reasons for demonstrating are valid,” he said. “And yet, the demonstration itself puts one at an additional risk.”

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  122. Thats a dodge, if a practice is harmful it should be proscribed,

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/maskerade-covid-1984-evidence-free-compulsory-masking/

    Narciso (7404b5)

  123. It’s not a dodge, it’s clear evidence that he said the exact opposite of what you claimed. Stop lying and admit that while some experts were inconsistent, Fauci, was not. Nor does he have the authority to proscribe such protests.

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  124. He shut down the whole countries economy, then he let the locusts ravage what was left.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  125. @127, No, Trump did that.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  126. @127 and @128 It might be worth taking a moment since neither of these is correct. Granted, Fauci recommended a lot of actions that had a serious impact on the economy when they were implemented and Trump agreed doesn’t have the same impact.

    frosty (f27e97)

  127. No trump allowed discretion, it was sweeney todd cuomo, burke and hare newsom et al that went all out.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  128. Frosty, My comment at 128 was wrong. Trump didn’t shut anything down. The governors did that, GOP and Dem alike. It would have been better to say; The US response early on was very poor and left the governors with no better options and Trump has a lot of responsibility for that.

    Looking at what’s worked / hasn’t worked in other places it seems like the list below have been common parts of success.
    -Aggressive testing
    -aggressive Contact tracing
    -aggressive isolation of infected & exposed ppl
    -aggressive use of things that limit spread of disease
    -pause of activities that cause spread (bars, concerts, etc.)

    A well led federal response that included those items would have been better.

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  129. You want a pony, with an 11 billion budget they werent focused on that.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  130. it was sweeney todd cuomo

    Angel of Death Cuomo

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. Yes he did in volume, but i was keeping with the barber motif

    Narciso (7404b5)

  132. This is a quite good explainer on why the death rate is lagging cases. One key aspect, you have to get sick before you die, it probably won’t work the other way.

    TL:DR Not overburdening the the hospitals is good, too bad Florida, Texas, and Arizona. Doctors are learning things so hopefully the death rate will be able to stabilize at only 16X that of the Flu, that looks bad but in NYC and Italy it was running at 250X, so that is, well, not good news, but less bad.

    For the past few weeks, I have been obsessed with a mystery emerging in the national COVID-19 data.

    Cases have soared to terrifying levels since June. Yesterday, the U.S. had 62,000 confirmed cases, an all-time high—and about five-times more than the entire continent of Europe. Several U.S. states, including Arizona and Florida, currently have more confirmed cases per capita than any other country in the world.

    But average daily deaths are down 75 percent from their April peak. Despite higher death counts from the last few days, the weekly average has largely plateaued in the last two weeks.

    The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint. President Donald Trump has brushed off the coronavirus surge by emphasizing the lower death rate, saying that “99 percent of [COVID-19 cases] are totally harmless.” On Tuesday, Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, warned Americans against “[taking] comfort in the lower rate of death” just hours before Trump tweeted triumphantly: “Death Rate from Coronavirus is down tenfold!”

    In the fog of pandemic, every statistic tells a story, but no one statistic tells the whole truth. Conservatives seeking refuge in today’s death counts may find, in a matter of days, that deaths are clearly resurging and their narrative is rapidly deteriorating. But liberals, too, should avoid the temptation to flatly reject any remotely positive finding, for fear that it will give succor to the president.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  133. You want a pony, with an 11 billion budget they werent focused on that.

    Narciso (7404b5) — 7/9/2020 @ 8:16 am

    I want a competent executive branch. This one isn’t.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  134. @131: We know what “aggressive” means in other countries.

    We also know aggressive changes meaning here depending on which sort of protest is going on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (fbad48)

  135. So why is belgium so fatal to people.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  136. Despite the recent coronavirus surge in southern states, three states—New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts—account for about 42 percent of COVID-19 deaths in America. Why?

    Few may have noticed that 42 percent of all COVID deaths in the US come from just three states—New Jersey, New York, and Massachusetts. These three states account for nearly 56,000 of the nearly 133,000 deaths in the US, even though they represent just 10 percent of the population. If these three states are excluded, the US suddenly finds itself somewhere in between nations such as Luxembourg (176/1M) and Macedonia (166/1M), where some of the better fatality numbers in Europe are found.

    Interesting read: https://fee.org/articles/3-states-account-for-42-percent-of-all-covid-19-deaths-in-america-why/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  137. The campaign is now securing outdoor arenas in Jacksonville:

    The RNC is in the process of contracting two outdoor stadiums in Jacksonville, Florida — Jaguars stadium & a minor league baseball stadium — as officials consider moving main GOP convention events outdoors, 2 Republicans familiar with planning tell me.

    The President has yet to make a final decision on this, but officials are looking to move at least part of the convention outdoors as coronavirus cases surge in Florida

    Dana (25e0dc)

  138. it’s a wonder coronello,

    narciso (7404b5)

  139. Florida Covid deaths reach highest daily total yesterday, by 50%.

    This is a tragedy of epic proportions, fueled by fools, laziness, and incompetence.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  140. That this is virtually ignored is telling, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  141. and it’s covered up by knaves, dishonest media and mooks with an agenda.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  142. Fools, like the ones whose brain is non-functional and doesn’t remember the massive outbreak in NYC, and how they responded. States like Arizona, Florida, and Texas ignored how flattening the curve worked, it wasn’t magic.

    Now those states look just like NYC before the avalanche of death happened.

    Or like Italy, or Spain, well, it can’t happen here because…? Nope, absolutely can and is. It’s not magic, hope is not a plan.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  143. and it’s covered up by knaves, dishonest media and mooks with an agenda.

    Yeah, Trump, Fox News, Russia, and well you.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  144. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/9/2020 @ 10:38 am

    Florida Covid deaths reach highest daily total yesterday, by 50%.

    I’m unclear on the math here. Is this a 50% increase from the previous day, 50% higher than the next highest daily total, something else? Are you talking about the total for that day or the running total that is updated daily?

    frosty (f27e97)

  145. I’m unclear.

    That’s been true for a while. Maybe you could spend a moment learning a thing. The worst day was 80 deaths a day, yesterday was 120… 50% higher, an increase of 150%.

    Fools, laziness, and incompetence.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  146. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/9/2020 @ 10:54 am

    Was that really difficult? You could have just started with

    The worst day was 80 deaths a day, yesterday was 120… 50% higher, an increase of 150%.

    in @142 and you wouldn’t have needed to expend insults. You could have saved those for later. Now, you’ll need to think up new insults or risk sounding like those guys that mutter and ramble about them.

    frosty (f27e97)

  147. Purity of Essence, klink, PoE.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. Pappy Van Tinkle…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. The World Health Association agreed to say that cronavirus can be transmitted long distance.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/world/coronavirus-updates.html

    In addition to avoiding close contact with infected people and washing hands, people should “avoid crowded places, close-contact settings, and confined and enclosed spaces with poor ventilation,” the W.H.O. has said. It said homes and offices should ensure good ventilation.

    “It is refreshing to see that W.H.O. is now acknowledging that airborne transmission may occur, although it is clear that the evidence must clear a higher bar for this route compared to others,” said Linsey Marr, an aerosol expert at Virginia Tech.

    Still, the updated guidance is not as extensive as many experts hoped to see.

    The W.H.O. had previously maintained that airborne spread is a concern only when health care workers are engaged in certain medical procedures that produce aerosols. But mounting evidence has suggested that in crowded indoor spaces, the virus can stay aloft in the air for hours and infect others when inhaled, and may even seed super-spreader events.

    It has been widely accepted for months that seemingly healthy people can spread the virusas evidence for asymptomatic transmission building. But from the beginning of the pandemic, the W.H.O. has maintained that asymptomatic cases were infrequent, and that asymptomatic transmission, while it may occur, was “very rare.”

    On Thursday, however, the agency said: “Infected people can transmit the virus both when they have symptoms and when they don’t have symptoms.”

    he next thing is to get rid of the recommendations for hand washing and cleaning surfaces.

    They could add eye protection, as the virus can get in through the eyes, as well as the mose and mouth.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  150. The city of Jacksonville, Florida is one of three cities that will get special help from the federal government to reduce the spread of the virus (free coronavirus testing)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/us/politics/tennessee-covid-testing.html

    The Trump administration announced on Tuesday that it would start offering free coronavirus testing in three cities — Jacksonville, Fla.; Baton Rouge, La.; and Edinburg, Texas — as part of a new “surge testing” program to support communities identified as hot spots.

    But even as he made the announcement, Adm. Brett P. Giroir, the assistant secretary of health, sounded a note of caution, warning that testing without other public health interventions — contact tracing, isolating the sick, social distancing and wearing masks — would be of little use.

    “We cannot test our way out of this,” he told reporters, adding, “Testing alone is almost never the answer.”

    I kind of suspect Jacksonville is on the list because it became Plan B for the site of the Republican convention. This probably won’t save his public speech.

    This article, by the way, seems critical of Trump, but it should be critical of Biden, who has made testing (with tracing but it can;t be done) the key component of his coronavirus plan. Trump never touted testing as a panacea – he’s almost against it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  151. 142. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/9/2020 @ 10:38 am

    This is a tragedy of epic proportions, fueled by fools, laziness, and incompetence.

    Yes, but I don;t think you know where the incompetence was.

    It was the whole process of drug and treatment approval.

    I coukld go crazy and get outraged reading something like this if I wasn’t so familiar with it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/07/08/us/08reuters-health-coronavirus-plasma-emergent-bio.html

    …The clinical research will evaluate if treatment with Emergent’s antibody product will help protect high-risk individuals and limit the spread of COVID-19.

    Emergent will also submit an experimental marketing application to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for the product…

    …According to David Reich, president and chief operating officer of the Mount Sinai Hospital, a plasma-derived antibody product may be an effective option in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 currently, in the absence of a vaccine. It may also prove helpful for patients who do not develop immunity from a vaccine.

    ImmunoTek will extend its FDA license to enable plasma collection onsite at New York City’s Mount Sinai and also train staff to assist in plasma collection procedures.

    Thousands of people have died because of the FDA’s slow walking approval of this sort of thing.

    And it is slow walking. They are not going fast. They are going faster than they otherwise would, but not in such away so as to imply that there’s something wrong with their requiremets and procedures

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  152. There’s no IFS about it n the question of whether this treatment works (unless they do something spectacularly wrong), and no question either about its relative safety.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  153. 145. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/9/2020 @ 10:46 am

    States like Arizona, Florida, and Texas ignored how flattening the curve worked, it wasn’t magic.

    It’salso happening in California.

    Now those states look just like NYC before the avalanche of death happened.

    It grew in number from just a few cases.

    You know what they did in California? They had kept it out of the prisons. Then a outbreak happened in one prison. They decided to transfer uninfected prisoners to San Quentin. Except they weren’t all uninfected. Yes, they were tested before being transferred, but tests don’t find every case. Which we knew in February.

    So now there’s a big outbreak in San Quentin prison.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  154. 120. I’m not shy about asking for a second opinion, and I don’t hold physicians responsible for my health without ever questioning their judgment. I am ultimately responsible for my own health, and I go to my doctors with concerns that I can not or do not feel comfortable addressing. That doesn’t mean I surrender my self-ownership as so many seem to be willing to do on account of CoViD.

    Gryph (08c844)

  155. 158. 600,000 people getting CoViD-19, and according to this story from April which ran in the Sioux Falls Argus Leader, the peak was supposed to happen in mid-June (which we are already well-past). So even assuming that we are halfway to the projected number of total cases, I’d say we’re still doing pretty good for having less than 100 deaths (and even that is assuming the death count here isn’t bogus).

    Gryph (08c844)

  156. Florida, Texas and Arizona cases have caused many ICUs to reach capacity. Just think how bad it would be if the other half of citizens were also listening to Trump.

    noel (4d3313)

  157. Florida, Texas and Arizona cases have caused many ICUs to reach capacity. I ust think how bad it would be if the other half of citizens were also listening to Trump.

    Or worse, think if FLA, TX, and AZ were NY, NJ and Mass.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  158. You do know that NY and NJ have succeeded in getting the positive test percentage down to 1%? What about FL, TX and AZ? Let me check….

    noel (4d3313)

  159. OK, Colonel Haiku. That would be 20%, 16% and 26%. (FL TX AZ) Congratulations.

    noel (4d3313)

  160. noel (4d3313) — 7/10/2020 @ 9:13 am

    NY and NJ are still in the top 10 for COVID deaths in the last 24 hours. I’m not sure succeeded is a word that should be used to generously.

    frosty (f27e97)


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