Patterico's Pontifications

7/6/2020

While Trump Goes On The Attack, Bubba Wallace Instructs The Next Generation (ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:10 pm



[guest post by Dana]

From the President of the United States:

Eh, I guess Trump missed this response from Wallace last month:

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany offered this defense of the president today when asked about his position on NASCAR:

REPORTER: “What is the president’s position? Does he think NASCAR made a mistake by banning the Confederate flag?”

MCENANY: “I spoke to him this morning about this and he said he was not making a judgment one way or the other. The intent of the tweet was to stand up for the men and women of NASCAR, the fans and those who have gone in this rush to judgment of the media to call something a hate crime when in fact the FBI report concluded this was not an intentional racist act. It very much mirrors other times where there’s been a rush to judgment, let’s say with the Covington boys or with Jussie Smollett.”

REPORTER: “Let’s drill down on the Confederate flag. Does he think it was a mistake for NASCAR to ban it?”

MCENANY: “The president said he wasn’t making a judgment one way or the other. You’re focusing on one word at the very bottom of the tweet that’s completely taken out of context and neglecting the complete rush to judgment.”

Here is a video exchange of McEnany and ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jon Karl, who disagrees with McEnany’s claim that he took anything out of context in his questions about the president:

McEnany also equated NASCAR’s banning of the Confederate flag with “cancel culture,” because of course she did:

The president wants no part of cancel culture…He stands against the demonization of Americans.

Further:

McEnany would not respond to repeated follow-up questions about why Wallace should apologize, considering that he was not the one who found the noose in the garage or the one who reported it, per an AL.com timeline of events.

While the FBI determined that the noose had been in place as a pull rope in a Talladega garage since October 2019 and thus was not intended for Wallace, NASCAR’s president confirmed that it “was real” and that it moved quickly to launch an investigation in order to “protect” its driver.

From Bubba Wallace, after Trump’s tweet. Wallace’s tweet was addressed to the next generation and little ones following my foot steps.#LoveWins :

Untitled (Recovered)

Anyway, it shouldn’t be so difficult for the President of the United States to say good on NASCAR for making a timely decision about the Confederate flag. But to take this confrontational stand, and point to “cancel culture” while unfairly demanding Wallace “apologize,” let’s us know that he is stirring the pot for his loyal sycophants [Ed. excludes those who voted for him as the lesser of two evils as opposed to those who really love the guy and what he stands for.] I guess it makes sense when you consider the various disasters he currently faces: His poll numbers are on a downhill slide, the pandemic hasn’t ended (no matter how much he tries to make us believe it has), and Russia and China are making his life miserable, among others. Thus, with the election just months away, my takeaway from all of this is that support for the Confederate flag is the hill upon which he is willing to make a stand. Because at the end of the day, it’s all about politics, and what he can benefit most from.

–Dana

219 Responses to “While Trump Goes On The Attack, Bubba Wallace Instructs The Next Generation (ADDED)”

  1. Politics as usual with this president.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. Trump can’t ask a question without his hate filled detractors and reporters using it to attack him.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  3. Trump is NOT defending Confederate flag, says the banning flag and hate hoax caused low rating. Bottom line is there no language Trump uses that will NOT be twisted and deliberately misinterpreted to attack him. Personally, I find this constant endless intellectual dishonesty boring as all get out, but it seems “The moderates” can’t remember this is part of a 4 year pattern on the part of the press and the Democrats , and insist on taking each incident at face value.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  4. Wallace never apologized for attacking NASCAR and their fans for supposed racism. Or apologize for his crew mistaking a rope knot for a “Noose”. After he came under fire, he made a weasel worded non-apology, a sort of “Mistakes were made”. Trump is correct to call him out on it.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  5. The president wants no part of cancel culture…He stands against the demonization of Americans.

    I’m sure literally dozens of antifa members will be relieved to hear that!

    Dave (1bb933)

  6. Do you know what happens to the end of a rope when you cut it? Do you know the easiest, and most common, way to stop that? But there are >1600 ropes fraying in NASCAR garages all over the country because none of them have knots. Yea, that’s the ticket.

    frosty (f27e97)

  7. “Do you know the easiest, and most common, way to stop that? ”

    Is it to tie a noose at the end?

    Davethulhu (b5d57e)

  8. It was a hangman’s knot with a loop and about ten turns, you lying, Trump-humping, crapweasel Trumpalos.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. I’m sure literally dozens of antifa members will be relieved to hear that!

    I’m pretty sure you can still fly your ACAB and hammer & sickle flags at NASCAR events, Dave. So, wave them proud.

    beer ‘n pretzels (7b79e1)

  10. Uh oh, the rope’s about to fray, better tie a knot:

    https://i.imgur.com/6Uo2qeQ.jpg

    Davethulhu (b5d57e)

  11. Then that’s also entree for Nascar and/or the Talladega Motor Speedway to justify the noose as either an engineering necessity to mitigate the sudden failure of door restraints or as the rope end solution with least damage potential on a cars’ exterior or legally permitted aerodynamic modifications (e.g
    Spoilers, restrictor plates).

    urbanleftbehind (daa3de)

  12. 10. Thank you, Davethulhu.

    nk (1d9030)

  13. Is that a photo of the noose, thulu? Given current events, that would be interpreted as racist in good faith.

    I’m pretty sure you can still fly your ACAB and hammer & sickle flags at NASCAR events, Dave. So, wave them proud.

    beer ‘n pretzels (7b79e1) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:37 pm

    LOL beer cans will be bouncing off the back of your head if you do that, best case scenario. Never underestimate how pissed off people can get when alcohol is flowing.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  14. He stands against the demonization of Americans.

    John McCain was unavailable for comment.

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. Davethulhu (b5d57e) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:34 pm

    You know that NASCAR claims to have done an investigation and found only 11 knots. We’ve talked about it here before. This story has holes in it big enough to drive a NASCAR racecar through. This is you being dishonest.

    Davethulhu (b5d57e) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:37 pm

    Yes, somehow that is racists because superpower racists somehow have the ability to make sure that ended up in a black guys garage even though it has been there for months.

    frosty (f27e97)

  16. @4, given how often the claim that it wasn’t a noose has been disproven your response is a really obvious lie. It’s sad that you can’t make your point without lying.

    Time123 (7507a9)

  17. Frosty, I think everyone sane, bubba Wallace included, has come to the conclusion you it was an unfortunate coincidence. Not a racist attack nor a hoax, just a creepy thing found in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Time123 (7507a9)

  18. If it were a real noose, it would tighten around the hand every time it’s pulled on, making it a poor choice for a door pull.

    If you’re going to harp on it being an actual noose, you probably should understand how they work.

    beer ‘n pretzels (aee173)

  19. Don’s problem is simply that you can’t distract from something that literally wants to kill your parents.

    He had a pretty good run – 3 years of no problems other than ones he made for himself. But now his only competence – portraying a person on TV others want to stare at – is useless.

    john (cd2753)

  20. I think Wallance’s message is a good one btw. It’s not a particularly great thing. But it’s nice that he’s showing some positivity. It’s a shame Trump has never shown that sort of strength of character.

    Time123 (7507a9)

  21. “You know that NASCAR claims to have done an investigation and found only 11 knots. We’ve talked about it here before. This story has holes in it big enough to drive a NASCAR racecar through. This is you being dishonest.”

    What are the holes? We’ve gone through this before. You can watch the video where the noose was seen back in 2019, and you can also see a bunch of pull ropes in other garages, none of which have knots. The dishonest people are the ones saying “it’s not a noose”, or “loop knots are super common”.

    “Yes, somehow that is racists because superpower racists somehow have the ability to make sure that ended up in a black guys garage even though it has been there for months.”

    Neither I, nor NASCAR, nor Bubba is claiming the above. This is a strawman.

    I hate having to repeat myself, but, once again:
    Using a noose as a knot on a pull rope is not common. This explains why Team Bubba and NASCAR reacted the way they did. The 2019 video shows that the knot was not deliberately placed in Bubba’s garage.

    There are undoubtedly some on the left saying “any noose anywhere is racist”, but there are a lot more on the right trying to paint this as a hoax (including the President), when it absolutely not.

    Davethulhu (b5d57e)

  22. @18, I can tie every knot in the BSHB. I’ve tied a noose before. There’s a picture in this thread. If that’s /not/ a noose you can’t tell the difference by looking. I’m going to assume the FBI actually examined it. They called it a noose. If it looks like a noose, and the FBI calls it a noose what’s your evidence it’s not a noose?

    Also, what’s wrong with you that you can’t accept this was a weird coincidence?

    Time123 (7507a9)

  23. If it were a real noose, it would tighten around the hand every time it’s pulled on, making it a poor choice for a door pull.

    If you’re going to harp on it being an actual noose, you probably should understand how they work.

    beer ‘n pretzels (aee173) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:59 pm

    You’re missing the point. This technical aspect ‘oh acthually it only looks like a noose’ doesn’t change that the mistake was a very reasonable one, and not some horrible race baiting hoax for the president to rant about.

    No one is arguing that the door pull was really used to lynch little black people. No honest person even cares if it functioned like a noose. Even if this were a real racist harassment of Bubba Wallace, no one would care if it worked as a proper noose would. In fact, we would assume someone doing a thing like that screwed it up, because racist trolls are very stupid people.

    Yes, somehow that is racists because superpower racists somehow have the ability to make sure that ended up in a black guys garage even though it has been there for months.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:52 pm

    If someone is still saying this was a specific response to Bubba Wallace, they are mistaken. Who is saying that? Once again, Trump is using this sliver of truth, that Bubba was mistaken, to inflame stupid people with a huge lie, that Bubba owes us an apology for a hoax. If you’re shouting that you’re owed an apology, burden’s on you.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  24. Using a noose as a knot on a pull rope is not common.

    True. It’s a striking image, actually.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  25. Time123 (7507a9) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:56 pm

    Frosty, I think everyone sane, bubba Wallace included, has come to the conclusion you it was an unfortunate coincidence. Not a racist attack nor a hoax, just a creepy thing found in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Everyone sane does not seem to be as large a group at it used to be. It’s pretty obvious NASCAR has not been completely honest about this. It’s also seemed clear at the time that Bubba did not want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this at the time.

    Even now, if you have any skepticism about this you get pushback. This was a big deal, it turned out to be bogus, and now Bubba and NASCAR want to say “no harm, no foul”. This is a bit like your friend thinking you stole something, them going on a rant about how they’ve always known you were a lying, thieving, SOB, finding the thing they lost, and then saying cool, let’s go get a drink. Bubba and NASCAR, deserve to be mocked for that clown show.

    frosty (f27e97)

  26. Frosty, outside of Halloween have you ever unexpectedly found a noose?
    If you did something you knew pissed off some of your co-workers and found a noose at your workstation would you honestly not think it was related?

    Time123 (7507a9)

  27. Also, what has NASCAR not been honest about?

    Time123 (7507a9)

  28. “This is a bit like your friend thinking you stole something, them going on a rant about how they’ve always known you were a lying, thieving, SOB, finding the thing they lost, and then saying cool, let’s go get a drink.”

    You appear to take this very personally. Sufficiently so that I think it clouded your analogy.

    It is more like moving to a new country and finding something threatening that references where you came from inside. You ask around, because it is threatening. But it turns out to be something left behind. Were you factually wrong? Yes. Were you wrong to be worried? That’s harder to argue. Were you wrong to “accuse” your neighbors? This is an issue for PR. Are your neighbors jerks for trying to score points because you made a mistake? <- Here we are now.

    john (cd2753)

  29. Apparently Trump doesn’t have an opinion one way or the other about the Confederate Flag. I guess he just thinks it’s another great part of our formerly great past and he’s not going to sweat the details.

    Victor (0301a3)

  30. It’s also seemed clear at the time that Bubba did not want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this at the time.

    Yeah, he was mad. But why wouldn’t he be, if he were correct? And we can all see, it’s actually an easy mistake to make. And he’s been pretty chill about this mistake, even when the leader of the free world is trying to troll him.

    It’s pretty obvious NASCAR has not been completely honest about this.

    LOL

    Bubba and NASCAR want to say “no harm, no foul”.

    Because, ya know, there was no harm and no foul.

    This is a bit like your friend thinking you stole something, them going on a rant about how they’ve always known you were a lying, thieving, SOB, finding the thing they lost, and then saying cool, let’s go get a drink.

    They didn’t accuse anyone specific. There is a big problem with Trump fans who love racism and are consumed with anger. But why be nice about these people, at this point? This isn’t like with Hillary, where Trump voters can say they are hoping Trump lives up to their views. We know he’s a bigot POS. There is no fixing those who support bigotry, or rant about a black man who is honestly opposed to it. This anger at Bubba for being uppity gets to the heart of how the GOP is not conservative. Trump freaks out about perceived slights every day. He freaked out that Obama might be born in Africa, ever day. Apparently he can still be supported, but someone earnestly sees this thing as a noose, that’s totally unacceptable. Let’s really think about why some people are suddenly so sensitive about assumptions.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  31. Are your neighbors jerks for trying to score points because you made a mistake? <- Here we are now.

    john (cd2753) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:22 pm

    Nicely put.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  32. Tatiana Drumpfelschitzel likes to say “hoax” a lot. In Psychology, that’s called projection. Ze is the biggest hoax to ever con zir way into the White House.

    nk (1d9030)

  33. Joe Biden
    @JoeBiden

    We’re going to beat Donald Trump. And when we do, we won’t just rebuild this nation — we’ll transform it.
    __ _

    Think anyone will tell him they’ve already started the transformation in Minneapolis, Seattle, Chicago, Portland, NYC, Baltimore, San Francisco etc. ?
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  34. Davethulhu (b5d57e) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:02 pm

    The dishonest people are the ones saying “it’s not a noose”, or “loop knots are super common”.

    And I’m not saying this either. I’m not even saying loop knots are common.

    What are the holes? … none of which have knots.

    It’s unlikely that none of these pull ropes have no knots at all. I personally haven’t seen videos that clearly show what you are claiming. I’ve seen some that are unclear.

    I’ll try to say this so that it’s harder for you to intentionally misinterpret what I’m saying. There are lots of different knots that you can tie into the end of a rope. A common one is a simple square knot. Having this in the rope would make it easier to grab and keep the rope from fraying. I’m skeptical that out of the 1600+ garages that NASCAR checked only 11 had any sort of knot at all.

    I’m also skeptical that this needed to be exploited like it was. Prior to any sort of investigation NASCAR and Bubba were making bold statements. Those statements were especially odd given the security around those garages.

    If you were to believe NASCAR’s, and Bubba’s, original version of this story you had to believe someone got into a NASCAR garage to tie the pull rope into a noose as a hate crime. That by itself is a ridiculous explanation for the noose. That only makes sense to people who already assume all white people are racists. If a racist wanted to send Bubba a message why not hang the noose over his car? Why not damage his car? Why do something that ran the risk of not even being noticed? After that, you had to be a racist to be skeptical at all of this story, except there’s a lot of these fake hate crime stories, especially of the noose variety. This was doubled down on until the FBI could prove the noose had been there for months. So, NASCAR, instead of saying they overreacted, has to say there are absolutely only 11 knots in all of the 1600+ garages and if you don’t believe that you’re a racist.

    But, by all means, continue to pretend that there is absolutely no reason to be skeptical about any of this. Pretend that it was entirely reasonable, and responsible, to add fuel to the current fire by making unfounded claims about hate crimes.

    frosty (f27e97)

  35. Trump defends the Confederate flag and monuments. Dare anyone ask about Trump’s views on the KKK hood?

    noel (4d3313)

  36. Biden will build a Wall. A big beautiful Wall. And he will get Mexico to pay for it.
    He will also replace Obamacare with something better.
    He will bring manufacturing back from China.
    And he will reverse Roe v. Wade.
    Believe me, he will do it. Believe me.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. john (cd2753) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:22 pm

    You ask around, because it is threatening.

    Now, who has a bad analogy? No one really “asked around”. Asking around would have been doing an investigation before blowing it up in the media. Both NASCAR and Bubba immediately assumed it was a racist threat and started making very public statements to that effect.

    Were you wrong to be worried? That’s harder to argue. Were you wrong to “accuse” your neighbors? This is an issue for PR. Are your neighbor’s jerks for trying to score points because you made a mistake? <- Here we are now.

    I’m not arguing that anyone was wrong to worry but this really comes down to what the accusation is. The more ridiculous an accusation and the more loudly it’s proclaimed.

    In my case, I think Bubba and NASCAR were just as much trying to “score points” as Trump is.

    frosty (f27e97)

  38. The president wants no part of cancel culture…He stands against the demonization of Americans.

    While literally “cancelling Bubba Wallace”, and spent the weekend demonizing Americans.

    How do you know Trump and co are doing a thing? the more forcefully they kick and scream about a thing, the more they are doing that thing.

    “It’s not me who has to get knee pads every time Puty comes over. It’s Joe Biden. Biden’s buying those black ones a super tight on the back of my…I mean his…knees. Totally Joe’s sleepy knees that time in Helsinki that I remember him definitely being there. I didn’t see it but so many people are telling me…I mean Joe…did the best…”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  39. One, Trump’s tacit endorsement of NASCAR keeping the Confederate symbol says well enough about his racism.
    Two, Mr. Wallace handled the situation with class and grace.
    Three, the knot had every appearance of a noose, but it had been there since 2019, so there was no intent to send a message or threat to Mr. Wallace. And BTW, a bowline would’ve worked better for that garage door, and easier to tie, too.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  40. Trump defends the Confederate flag and monuments.

    Speech = violence. Great. You got the memo.

    beer ‘n pretzels (bba50e)

  41. Speech = violence. Great. You got the memo.

    Maybe hateful speech is just that, and can be called out for it. You know, you’re free to say your confederate flag is patriotic to the United States. You’re free to say it, it’s still a total lie though.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  42. There are two things more stupid than waving the confederate flag:

    1. Banning it.
    2. Thinking it ends with #1.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  43. Trump defends the Confederate flag and monuments. Dare anyone ask about Trump’s views on the KKK hood?

    noel (4d3313) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:53 pm

    Very fine people on both sides of that hood!

    And we know the KKK has endorsed Trump in its newsletter article titled “Make America Great Again.” I guess to the KKK, again referred to something in our past they found appealing. Mysterious.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  44. Paul Montagu (e2c658) — 7/6/2020 @ 3:17 pm

    Two, Mr. Wallace handled the situation with class and grace.

    Yes, going on The View and claiming that people who might be skeptical of the racist nascar ninja are small-minded is something covered in every book on class and grace.

    frosty (f27e97)

  45. Yes, going on The View and claiming that people who might be skeptical of the racist nascar ninja are small-minded is something covered in every book on class and grace.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/6/2020 @ 3:43 pm

    Tell the truth, Frosty. Do you think Paul was referring to Bubba’s good faith anger before he knew this was a mistake, or do you think Paul was talking about Bubba’s intelligent and inspiring response to the President of the United States attacking him?

    This is a really simple question.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  46. Yes, frosty, people make mistakes. His response after the FBI review was tacit acknowledgement of such.
    When was the last time Trump acknowledged that he made a mistake, tacit or otherwise?

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  47. I mean, Trump didn’t acknowledge that his “white power” tweet was a mistake. He just quietly deleted it after it was out there for four hours, without apology and without denouncing the racist in the golf cart. When do the American people get an apology for that? He’s the Leader of the Free World, and his tweets are the official word of the Office of the President.
    Bubba Wallace is just a journeyman driver of race cars.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  48. The next generation has to survive first.
    _

    Tom Winter
    @Tom_Winter
    ·
    NEW: Every single person who has been shot in New York City this July, nearly 100 in total, has been a member of the minority community and 97% of shooting victims in June were members of the city’s minority communities, the NYPD says.
    __ _

    Tom Winter
    @Tom_Winter
    ·
    50% of the shootings have taken place in just 10 precincts, “those communities are being overrun by a small percentage of gang members who have little regard for their own life and no regard for their community”, Chief Lipetri says.
    __ _

    Tom Winter
    @Tom_Winter
    ·
    The bloodshed isn’t limited to New York City.

    Chicago’s recent crime fighting success has cratered with a homicide rate that has risen 34% this year compared to last, for a total of 324 deaths. Over the last 28 days compared to last year over the same period homicides rose 83%.
    __ _

    Tom Winter
    @Tom_Winter

    Philadelphia’s homicide rate has risen up 27% with 210 killings in total (more than NYC), a rate not seen in over 10 years.
    __ _

    Arriadna
    @Arriadna
    ·
    Replying to
    @Tom_Winter

    So, are the cops no longer doing their jobs? What is going on?
    __ _

    Symbolism at car races and tearing down statues more important.
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  49. meanwhile hack king baker expands mail in voting in ma.
    covering his azz for ranking 5th in the U.S. in china flu deaths

    mg (8cbc69)

  50. When Trump goes to prison in 2021, there will be no one left to defend him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. Oh yea. The “White Power” tweet. Seems like such a long time ago. The Village People.

    noel (4d3313)

  52. Macho macho Trump.

    noel (4d3313)

  53. Time123 (7507a9) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:16 pm

    Frosty, outside of Halloween have you ever unexpectedly found a noose?
    If you did something you knew pissed off some of your co-workers and found a noose at your workstation would you honestly not think it was related?

    I would think they are related and I would be worried. But I’d also want to gather some facts before I went to the press. Or to push the analogy futher, before I started accusing my coworkers of threatening me.

    But what you describe isn’t what happened and I don’t know why people keep getting that wrong. Bubba never saw the noose and he did a lot more than think they were related. For your example to match I’d have to get a call from building security and be told about the noose. And again, after I got the call from building security I would not release a press statement about a hostile work environment.

    Now, if I were actually employed, or say sponsored by one company, but had to use another company’s facilities and that company had a history of being white and redneck and my sponsor wasn’t white or red-neck and didn’t like white’s, and especially didn’t like red-neck, and something happened that played into the white red-neck is bad narrative then there might be some reason to rush to the press right away.

    And, if I were any of the executive leadership of said company and all of the other companies were putting BLM banners on their sites and I wanted the shed the white and red-neck image I might just play along since that’s basically the only option.

    frosty (f27e97)

  54. So Trump is not the President of New York, Chicago, and Philadelphia, I take it, and New Yorkers, Chicagoans, and Philadelphians are not your fellow American, is that right, Trumpadoodle Dandies? Your unconcealed glee is as disgusting as Trump’s mange.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. Symbolism at car races and tearing down statues more important.
    _

    harkin (ca2d1a) — 7/6/2020 @ 4:00 pm

    It is really one of Trump’s biggest mistakes. He is president, but focused on why his ‘side’ is right on racial matters, how his side is owed apologies. It’s a distraction, an ego thing. I guess this is his strategy to tighten the polls by getting some whites back. It will be effective to a point, but it’s also going to make it impossible to win (or for the GOP to win for a long time).

    I want my kids to have a better country than I had, not a return to what we used to have.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  56. 3. rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:18 pm

    Trump is NOT defending Confederate flag, says the banning flag and hate hoax caused low rating.

    Except that banning the Confederate flag didn’t really cause low ratings. (Trump said the flag matter caused low ratings, not the case, which wasn’t Bubba’s fault, although you can say he, and others, shouldn’t have suspected people. The whole idea of nooses being used by white supremacists is a hoax (more than it is an urban legend) and people as old as Donald Trump is know that.

    Bottom line is there no language Trump uses that will NOT be twisted and deliberately misinterpreted to attack him.

    Trump doesn’t say fair or accurate things. It’s just that they are not as bad as what they made to be.

    The virus is not “totally harmless” to 99% of the people who get infected. It may not kill more than 99%, but it is totally harmless to only about 40%; not very serious to another 40%; pretty serious to another 15%; and up to 5% can wind up in the hospital.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  57. 4. rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/6/2020 @ 1:21 pm

    Wallace never apologized for attacking NASCAR and their fans for supposed racism. Or apologize for his crew mistaking a rope knot for a “Noose”.

    He still insisted it was a noose, albeit not aimed at him.

    After he came under fire, he made a weasel worded non-apology, a sort of “Mistakes were made”. Trump is correct to call him out on it.

    Not the way he did. Did Trump explain? I suppose someone could be +ntitled to a suspicion that Wallace knew better.

    But Trump tweeted this because he wanted to get on the good side of what he imagined southern rednecks think.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  58. I’ve been thinking about this. Can you think of anything else, besides, apparently, the Confederate flag, that President Trump does not have an opinion about??? Because I can’t. One of my gripes about the president has been how much time he wastes blathering (especially on Twitter) on opining about everything under the sun as if he has no real work to do. And yet, during a time of civil unrest and Confederate statues being toppled and removed, we are being asked to believe that he has no opinion about the Confederate flag?? I don’t know what’s worse – that we are being asked to believe such an outrageous lie, or that the president is brazenly playing to his base by hedging on something like the Confederate flag. While he may indeed “is his strategy to tighten the polls by getting some whites back,” how many Trump voters, who voted him as a lesser of two evils, is he going to lose by his obvious pandering to racists?

    Dana (25e0dc)

  59. Confederate flag and race hoax caused lower ratings = opinion by Trump. Proof he’s wrong? Zero.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  60. 23. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/6/2020 @ 2:05 pm

    Trump is using this sliver of truth, that Bubba was mistaken, to inflame stupid people with a huge lie, that Bubba owes us an apology for a hoax.

    That about sums it up, except that Trump may not believe that Bubba is too ignorant not to know that this whole noose-as-a-threat business is, at best, an urban legend.

    I don’t think there’s been one that turned out to be real.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  61. Remember when Trump was told to stop lying about HCQ? And Z-pack? How it was ‘Giving people false hope”? Science – per the WaPo and NYT.

    Remember when Trump lied about being wiretapped? Comey never did such a thing. Fact-checked by MSM.

    So, excuse me for being skeptical.

    rcocean (fcc23e)


  62. ABC News
    @ABC
    · A young protester has died from injuries she suffered when a luxury car plowed into her and another woman during a Black Lives Matter protest Saturday on a Seattle freeway that has shut down for days due to the civil unrest, police said. https://abcn.ws/3gus5Lv
    __ _

    El Risitas Fanclub
    @risitasfanclub
    ·
    They point out the luxury car but not the black man driving the car.

    I wonder why
    __ _

    D. O’Genius
    @D_ogenius
    ·
    If two black “protestors” had been run down by a white man in a Jaguar on video, you’d see 24/7 headlines and a new set of riots. With the story reversed, the media conspicuously assigns agency to an inanimate object:

    “The Curious Case of the Driverless Car”
    __ _

    Seann Paul Stewart
    @seannpstewart
    ·
    So true. shucks, no white driver. We have to blame it on the car.
    _ _

    ed
    @eleventy17
    ·
    surprised they didn’t just call it a “white car”. maybe that was the first draft.
    __ _

    harkin (ca2d1a)

  63. Ratings are important to Tatiana, aren’t they?

    nk (1d9030)

  64. 60. rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/6/2020 @ 4:50 pm

    Confederate flag and race hoax caused lower ratings = opinion by Trump. Proof he’s wrong? Zero.

    The ratings were up.

    https://www.thewrap.com/nascar-ratings-trump-bubba-wallace-noose-confederate-flag

    NASCAR ratings on Fox are up 8% since league banned Confederate flag; July 4th weekend races soar on NBC

    As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but nobody is entitled to his own facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  65. 54. In Bubba Wallace’s defense it is a (heavily promoted) urban legend.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  66. I’ve updated the post with video of Jon Karl’s exchange with Mcenany, and his defense of his questioning. Please take a look.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  67. Remember when Trump was told to stop lying about HCQ? And Z-pack? How it was ‘Giving people false hope”? Science – per the WaPo and NYT.

    Yeah, and they were right, he was lying, or at least he had zero clue, and turned out to be lying.

    Remember when Trump lied about being wiretapped? Comey never did such a thing. Fact-checked by MSM.

    Yeah, they weren’t and he was lying. Didn’t happen.

    Did you forget that reality exists and he was lying.

    Here’s a clue, if Trump says it, it’s a lie.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  68. One of my gripes about the president has been how much time he wastes blathering (especially on Twitter) on opining about everything under the sun as if he has no real work to do.

    Well, there’s your problem. There’s ZERO evidence Trump spends a lot of time on twitter. He writes out tweets and gives them to his staff. He doesn’t even go on social media. Tweets are 140 words or less. He probably doesn’t write more than 240 words on his heaviest twitter days. I’ve just written 75 words defending him in Five minutes.

    You want to know where Trump has really wasted his time? Answering questions from the MSM. He was responding to MSM questions about CV-19 almost every day for what? Two months. And those press morons asked one damn stupid question (usually variations of the same question) after another. A complete waste of time. Look at the current press conference with the Press Secretary -12 questions by the Biden supporters with press badges on the confederate flag. Did you watch it? I didn’t. What’s the point?

    BY contrast, his time spent on twitter allows him to get his message out and he spends little time on it.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  69. The fish rots from the head down, Sammy. Trump lies, his supporters lie.

    nk (1d9030)

  70. rcocean more than most.

    nk (1d9030)

  71. George Bush was very dignified. He never responded to attacks. He rarely talked to the Press. He got called Bush-Hitler, racist, etc. He won all the hearts of the “rise above it” crowd, and left office with the lowest ratings ever. What did Bush accomplish? Almost nothing in domestic policy, and a no-win war in Iraq. But he had dignity.

    Mittens and McCain were the same. Always were dignified and never attacked the press. And both got called Hitler/Racist and LOST. Mittens even befriended harry reid who lied about Mittens being a Tax Cheat. Wow, what a great loser Mittens was. What a Gentleman. That’s “class”.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  72. I say of Trump, what Lincoln said of Grant. “I like this man, he fights”.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  73. In Bubba Wallace’s defense it is a (heavily promoted) urban legend.

    Sammy, if a black family in a white-majority neighborhood wakes up one morning to find a noose hanging from a tree in their front yard, do they perceive it as a racist threat or do they dismiss it as an “urban legend”–maybe have a chuckle about it–and then go about their day?

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  74. Confederate flag and race hoax caused lower ratings = opinion by Trump. Proof he’s wrong? Zero.

    rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/6/2020 @ 4:50 pm

    Dana’s right. Trump is wrong because he is wrong to be fanning the flames about this kind of issue. This is the leader of the free world, a free world with hundreds of thousands of dead people recently, and some serious problems with Russia, and he’s talking about Nascar ratings? That’s wrong.

    Trump was told to stop lying about HCQ?

    Indeed, those Russian trolls started telling us to not wear masks, that that woman whose husband died from HCQ… she murdered him. Endless distractions.

    By keeping white Trump fans mad at NASCAR, liberals, Bubba Wallace, Obama (born in Africa), telling us to ban Muslims, Mexicans are rapists, we sure aren’t talking about the tall stack of important issues.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  75. Well, there’s your problem. There’s ZERO evidence Trump spends a lot of time on twitter. He writes out tweets and gives them to his staff. He doesn’t even go on social media. Tweets are 140 words or less. He probably doesn’t write more than 240 words on his heaviest twitter days. I’ve just written 75 words defending him in Five minutes.

    A) Tweets are 240 characters
    B) Trump has tweeted over 25,000 times since being elected president. If he’s only taking a minute per, that’s 416 hours, not including any time to read the tweets he retweets, or watches the white power video’s he retweets. That’s over 10 work weeks straight, tweeting.

    Again, reality disagrees with you. There is ample evidence that you’re lying.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  76. He’s now averaging over 30 tweets a day, 200 a day in some cases, that’s over 3 hours of tweeting in one day.

    Zero evidence, that’s a joke right?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  77. @73, he fights wildly, clumsily, and to little effect. Currently he’s starting a fight with a race car driver over a mistake that’s weeks in the past. If only he could govern or actually accomplish things. As a social media star he’s wonderful. As a president he’s a failure and a clown.

    Time123 (7507a9)

  78. I say of Trump, what Lincoln said of Grant. “I like this man, he fights”.

    rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/6/2020 @ 5:09 pm

    Grant was ruthlessly fighting for the USA.

    Trump is not fighting for the USA. He hates you, rcocean. He is selling you out. He mocks you because he could shoot an American soldier dead on 5th Avenue and you would defend him anyway.

    Trump brought the race problems back, for the 100th time, in a way that failed to provide any leadership, any honor, any justice. He is tearing us apart. We are watching a nation being torn apart. You’d have to really be delusional about what democrats are to hate them more than you love your people.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  79. But to take this confrontational stand, and point to “cancel culture” while fairly demanding Wallace “apologize,” …

    Do you mean unfairly?

    DRJ (aede82)

  80. Trump fights for himself and his family. He is the politician the Godfather wanted his son Michael to be.

    DRJ (aede82)

  81. He’s also played 274 rounds of golf, @2hrs/round that’s 13.7 work weeks playing golf.

    He’s also spent just over a year of the 3 and a half years of president on vacation at one of his properties.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  82. Trump doesn’t fight. He blathers, blusters, and insults. Then he makes up for it by fawning and kowtowing to our foreign enemies. He’s Eddie Haskell without the hair or good manners.

    nk (1d9030)

  83. 80,

    Yes! Thx.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  84. Ten years from now, after all the flags and monuments are gone, I’m sure we’ll wonder why there was ever a racial divide and what it was all about.

    beer ‘n pretzels (883307)

  85. Trump knows his audience:

    ‘White people constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 234,370,202 or 73% of the population as of 2017′ – source, wikisilentmajority

    So go ahead, JoeyBee, choose a black woman as your running mate. And lose.

    “What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.” – The Big Dick – August 8, 1968

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. Hmm, this Russia thing…

    To convey information with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies. This is punishable by death or by imprisonment for not more than 30 years or both.

    To convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies when the United States is at war, to cause or attempt to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or to willfully obstruct the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States. This was punishable by a maximum fine of $10,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 20 years or both.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  87. A drunk outside a bar will also fight, if you call swinging your arms and yelling, fighting.

    Victor (a225f9)

  88. @70. No, nk. They just know JR Ewing makes for a better show than George Wilson.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. He’s also played 274 rounds of golf, @2hrs/round that’s 13.7 work weeks playing golf.

    That assumes all his outings are 9-hole rounds, Klink. For me personally, if I’m playing at a nice resort, I’m playing all 18, but assuming half his rounds are nine holes, that’s 822 total hours on the links and that doesn’t include travel time, locker room time, meal time, etc.
    BTW, I don’t begrudge Trump playing all that golf. The more time he’s thinking about his next shot, the less time for him say stupid things, tweet stupid things and decide stupid things.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  90. @65. Sammy, homebound people are so hungry to be entrtained, they’ll watch a televised fish tank, kittens playing with yarn, old baseball games, I Love Lucy reruns and stock cars going in circles.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/6/2020 @ 3:47 pm

    Tell the truth, Frosty. Do you think Paul was referring to Bubba’s good faith anger before he knew this was a mistake, or do you think Paul was talking about Bubba’s intelligent and inspiring response to the President of the United States attacking him?

    This is a really simple question.

    His comment was

    Two, Mr. Wallace handled the situation with class and grace.

    I interpreted “the situation” to be everything related to “the noose” and not limited to Trump’s tweet.

    frosty (f27e97)

  92. Paul Montagu (e2c658) — 7/6/2020 @ 5:10 pm

    Sammy, if a black family in a white-majority neighborhood wakes up one morning to find a noose hanging from a tree in their front yard, do they perceive it as a racist threat or do they dismiss it as an “urban legend”–maybe have a chuckle about it–and then go about their day?

    Do you know the stats on how many times this has actually happened as opposed to how many times this has been hoaxed? Based on the ones that make the news, at this point the smelt it dealt it rule applies more to nooses than farts.

    frosty (f27e97)

  93. I know this will be hard to believe, but it turns out that President Trump was (gasp) LYING to his cultists about NASCAR ratings being down:

    But the ban of the Confederate flag and what happened at Talladega have not caused NASCAR’s “lowest ratings EVER!” as Trump claimed. According to FOX Sports, NASCAR viewership on the FOX networks is up eight percent since returning from its coronavirus-related hiatus on May 17.

    Despite numerous delays and postponements due to inclement weather since the sport returned amid the pandemic, television viewership and Nielsen ratings have not consistently dropped, nor have any changes been in direct correlation with the flag ban. Instead, Sunday’s Cup Series race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway on NBC earned a 2.67 rating and 4.34 million viewers, according to NBC Sports. That viewership number is up 46 percent from last year’s Brickyard 400 race, which aired in September at the same time as NFL games. It was the second-most viewed NASCAR race since the sport returned from hiatus due to the Pandemic. (NASCAR’s return race at Darlington averaged 6.32 million viewers.)

    After the ban was announced the morning before NASCAR’s Cup Series race at Martinsville, television ratings on FS1 increased 16 percent compared to previous weeknight NASCAR Cup Race at Charlotte, according to FOX Sports. The second race at Charlotte was the lowest-rated NASCAR Cup Series race of the season — a mid-week event postponed for inclement weather. Inclement weather also pushed Talladega from Sunday to Monday, and it was still the most-watched Monday NASCAR race since 2014 (other than the Daytona 500).

    [emphasis added]

    Dave (1bb933)

  94. @94

    Took me about 5 minutes to find this, seems legit

    https://apnews.com/7ad8371c1bd4001830538fd37c870b99

    Not saying that its never a hoax, but it seems to be something that still happens.

    Manataur (e632fa)

  95. Do you know the stats on how many times this has actually happened as opposed to how many times this has been hoaxed?

    No, do you? Why are you denying that nooses send a powerful racist message to black people? It’s not as if there isn’t a history.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  96. Manataur (e632fa) — 7/6/2020 @ 6:39 pm

    Not saying that its never a hoax

    That’s probably a wise choice given recent history. I didn’t say it always was but the noose thing doesn’t have a good record.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. You’re using Michelle Malkin as a fact reference? Well, she lies less than Trump.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)


  98. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but nobody is entitled to his own facts.”

    The ratings are up 8%. Up from what? Trump says the rating are down. Down from what? you’ve proven nothing.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  99. Paul Montagu (e2c658) — 7/6/2020 @ 6:49 pm

    Where’s Klink to complain about feelz? I don’t doubt they send a powerful message when they actually happen in real life but we’ve drifted away from that into the suburbs where black people are seeing these things so often home depot is having a shortage on rope and white people are wasting perfectly good rope.

    frosty (f27e97)

  100. Trump says “ratings are down” – then every MSM outlet rushes out and assumes Trump meant XYZ. But is that true? No. The MSM hasn’t proven anything.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  101. Did Trump defend the confederate flag? No. read the tweet. The MSM just WANTS to say that.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  102. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/6/2020 @ 7:02 pm

    There he is. So, you’re saying the incidents mentioned in the article are lies? Or are you just resorting to Klink’s rule #3 – the ad hominem.

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. Dave at 95. Don’t let rcocean see that.

    nk (1d9030)

  104. What “flag decision” by NASCAR do you suppose he’s referring to rcocean?

    Dave (1bb933)

  105. There he is. So, you’re saying the incidents mentioned in the article are lies? Or are you just resorting to Klink’s rule #3 – the ad hominem.

    She cites 9 cases in 13 years.

    Hmm, research is hard.

    Hate crime hoaxes are extraordinarily rare. Just 11 of more than 7,000 reported hate crimes in 2018 turned out to be deliberately false reports, according to data compiled by the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino. But researchers said that when potential hate crimes, reported in good faith, are found not to have been plainly motivated by bias or malevolence, observers are often quick to react with skepticism — and sometimes false arguments — particularly online.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  106. Dave, NASCAR plainly banned the flag of Diver Down, clearly they hate Van Halen. It’s completely obvious since that’s definitely the only flag they’ve banned. Definitely no other one. Definitely.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  107. @108 So, ad hominem and now we’re not talking about nooses anymore. We’ve switched to hate crimes generally and some sort of lame sometimes false arguments — particularly online garbage. Do you ever engage in a good faith argument. Is it time to accuse me of being in the klan?

    frosty (f27e97)

  108. Theyve gone full smollett, any lie will do,

    Narciso (7404b5)

  109. @108 So, ad hominem and now we’re not talking about nooses anymore. We’ve switched to hate crimes generally and some sort of lame sometimes false arguments — particularly online garbage. Do you ever engage in a good faith argument. Is it time to accuse me of being in the klan?

    Are you in the Klan?

    Online garbage like from Michelle Malkin, because we don’t know who she is.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  110. Theyve gone full smollett, any lie will do

    You mean like Trump not talking about the Confederate flag, like the ratings were down, like Bubba did a thing, those lies? I mean, you’re talking about those lies right? Because you know one thing isn’t another thing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  111. I agree with Lindsey:

    “I don’t think Bubba Wallace has anything to apologize for,” Graham said, adding that “you saw the best in NASCAR. When there was a chance that it was a threat against Bubba Wallace, [the drivers] all rallied to Bubba’s side. I would be looking to celebrate that kind of attitude more than being worried about it being a hoax.”

    Graham also addressed NASCAR’s recent decision to ban the Confederate flag at its events, saying that “if you’re in business, the Confederate flag is not a good way to grow your business.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  112. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/6/2020 @ 7:38 pm

    No, Klink I don’t have any hoods and you can probably stop asking around here. You’ll need to make whatever you need.

    frosty (f27e97)

  113. Michelle Malkin, at the White Supremacist Rally earlier in the year. Yeah, she’s full on Neo-Nazi. She’s the proud racist.

    I want you to keep that in mind as I begin my formal remarks, which, will commence this way.

    Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls (but no e-girls– Right? Have I proved my bonafides?), I rise tonight in defiant opposition to Conservatism Inc. and in unwavering support of America First. Of course, in the interest of full disclosure and transparency, I must reveal to you that the number of donor class CEOs and philanthropists that are backing me is precisely zero. There is no Sheldon Groyperson pulling the strings. There are no Kek Brothers lurking in the background, waiting to whisk me away in a private jet. The grand total of subsidies that I have received from America First is zero dollars and zero cents. Because there is no America First Inc.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  114. So in just a couple of posts we’ve had Klink slam and insult Governor Norm, Malkin and Palin while Montagu insults Gingrich and VDH, but we are supposed to take their protestations of being a Republican, much less a conservative seriously?

    NJRob (27be9e)

  115. Ten years from now, after all the flags and monuments are gone, I’m sure we’ll wonder why there was ever a racial divide and what it was all about.

    beer ‘n pretzels (883307) — 7/6/2020 @ 5:42 pm

    Fair point. It isn’t going away. The statues aren’t the problem. Some of these guys will never stop demanding something be cancelled, because there is a lot of power in that.

    But the hill to die on is George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Christopher Columbus, other important figures whose actions shaped our world. People we should remember, and to some extent, honor because it is inspiring to change the world.

    The confederate statues and rebel flag were probably some effort to bring the south and north together in the early 20th century, but they aren’t doing that anymore, and we obviously do not want to promote that vision for society.

    If Trump really wanted, he could pay his speech writers to explain this in a way to promoted justice. But no, he’s bashing Nascar because without the confederate flag their freaking ratings aren’t good enough. Seriously what a damn fool.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  116. NJRob, you consider Malkin a conservative?

    Why?

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  117. So in just a couple of posts we’ve had Klink slam and insult Governor Norm, Malkin and Palin while Montagu insults Gingrich and VDH, but we are supposed to take their protestations of being a Republican, much less a conservative seriously?

    You want to defend Michelle Malkin? I don’t know who Governor Norm is, Kristi Noem is Sarah Palin 2.0, and Sarah Palin is known. Do you even know who these people are? Do you think Sarah Palin, or “Norm”, is conservative, Malkin’s a conservative?

    I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  118. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/6/2020 @ 8:10 pm

    I lost count. Are we up to tripling down on ad hominem? Do you even remember the original point or is this Klink #4 – distract and change the subject?

    frosty (f27e97)

  119. Noem spent nearly half a million dollars for South Dakota’s anti-drug campaign slogan “Meth. We’re on it.”

    Good thing she could hire her daughter to work for the admin (before she graduated from college, a requirement for the position), with a 50% raise, and her son in law, again with a 50% raise.

    Of course, Noem herself was her own intern in the House to get college credit so she could graduate in 2012. Yup, she was her own intern, her review for herself…”could do better”.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  120. I consider her a conservative nationalist who values American institutions and doesn’t want them replaced with socialist ones Dustin. I base that on her track record of the past 25 years and her writings.

    NJRob (27be9e)

  121. No they only care about so called conservatives that kneel before terrorist groups who are extorting corporate america.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  122. Governor Norm

    Rip Murdock (41bc87)

  123. Narciso (7404b5) — 7/6/2020 @ 8:42 pm

    The sad news is the terrorists are good at multitasking so they can shoot little girls in cars or at 4th of July picnics and also work on those evil corporations.

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. #122

    I consider her a conservative nationalist who values American institutions and doesn’t want them replaced with socialist ones Dustin. I base that on her track record of the past 25 years and her writings.
    NJRob (27be9e) — 7/6/2020 @ 8:36 pm

    She defends and identifies with Nick Fuentes, a racist, Holocaust denying white nationalist. If that’s your idea of “conservative nationalist,” good for you. You buy it, you own it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  125. Nationalism, the opposite of patriotism. Plus a heaping helping of racism, stir in some anti-semitism all the ingredients in the America First pie.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  126. I took Michelle Malkin seriously only one time, when she praised a Philadelphia restaurant owner who would not serve people who could not order in English. And I don’t mean trying to order in Spanish. I mean by pointing at the pictures of the food on the display board. He wanted them to say it. I suggested that the world might be a better place if people had refused to sell food to her immigrant parents.

    But, later, I realized that she is not a person to be taken seriously. She is a tinhorn who picked a market and is selling them what they want to buy. That’s all, and a girl’s gotta make a living, after all.

    nk (1d9030)

  127. Xenophobic pro-internment Holocaust revisionism is quite the niche market.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  128. Lurker,

    Fuentes, a spanish surname, is a white nationalist racist? Is that reality or just more leftist name calling? If he’s a bigot, I don’t know him. But I do know the left parades their bigots and elects them to higher office(see: Ilhan Omar and her ilk) without disowning them. They still support Farrakhan to this day and there isn’t a bigger racist, anti-semite on the planet.

    What I read in Malkin’s speech, which was helpfully linked above, was that she wouldn’t cow to the anti-nationalists who wanted her to disown lots of people that weren’t helpful to their goals. So they disowned her instead and kept the likes of the grifter Lincoln Project types instead.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  129. Fuentes, a spanish surname, is a white nationalist racist? Is that reality or just more leftist name calling? If he’s a bigot, I don’t know him.

    Yes, you should probably learn a bit more about the people you are amplifying.

    You say “anti-nationalists” like it’s a bad thing. You either know who these “nationalists” you’re supporting are, or you don’t. I’m not sure which is worse.

    This is the historical precedent of these people. They were about the only group in America that could align the Democrats, Republicans, house wives, veterans, and even the American Socialist Working Party, all together, because in this case, it was patriots vs nationalists, and think God the nationalists were piled on the dung heap of history, right along with the confederates, traitors all.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  130. No Klink,

    the modern Nazi’s are the progressive left that is turning the word “White” into what “Jewish” was in Nazi Germany: a group to blame for all your ills and misfortune.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  131. the modern Nazi’s are the progressive left that is turning the word “White” into what “Jewish” was in Nazi Germany: a group to blame for all your ills and misfortune.

    No, the modern Nazis are the same old Nazis. That you keep trying to lump groups into the contorted view is telling. Fly your nationalist flag high. Do you think non beige people can’t be Americans?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (305827)

  132. How many “White Power” videos would Trump have to approvingly broadcast to his tens of millions of followers before we’re allowed to entertain the suspicion that he’s an unashamed racist?

    Why didn’t he even apologize for what he did? Obviously because he’s not sorry, that’s why.

    Dave (1bb933)

  133. His pro Lost Cause rhetoric, white power tweets, can we not just listen to what Trump is just straight up telling us. It’s not some sophisticated code, it’s plain and out in the open.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (305827)

  134. #130

    Fuentes, a spanish surname, is a white nationalist racist? Is that reality or just more leftist name calling? If he’s a bigot, I don’t know him. But I do know the left parades their bigots and elects them to higher office(see: Ilhan Omar and her ilk) without disowning them. They still support Farrakhan to this day and there isn’t a bigger racist, anti-semite on the planet.
    […]
    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/6/2020 @ 9:48 pm

    I detest Farrakhan. And I dissociate myself from anyone who refuses to condemn him unequivocally. Which leaves only one question: What does Farrakhan have to do with what we were discussing? The answer of course is nothing. He’s pure whatabout distraction from Malkin’s alliance with someone (Fuentes) who 30 seconds on Google would have shown you is just about as vile as Farrakhan.

    So why was that 30 second investment of time more onerous than speculating that your enemies of choice, “the left,” baselessly smeared Fuentes because… well they’re the left and that’s what the left does and bringing it up out of nowhere never gets old and geez where did the time go, and what were we just talking about?

    Do you care about fidelity to the principles you no doubt associate with your political identity? If so, and if you’re really a conservative, you should want no part of Malkin and her adoption of the bigoted “groyper” movement Fuentes is part of. If, on the other hand, you’ve prioritized tribal animosity uber alles, then congratulations. You’ve rendered principles, with all their inconvenient preoccupation with consistency, expendable.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  135. So in just a couple of posts we’ve had Klink slam and insult Governor Norm, Malkin and Palin while Montagu insults Gingrich and VDH, but we are supposed to take their protestations of being a Republican, much less a conservative seriously?

    Yes, because you can do two things at once, Rob. You can be a conservative Republican and defend traditional conservative Republican principles while criticizing other Republicans for being unapologetic Trump boot-lickers, for them bending the knee to a guy who has forsaken traditional conservative Republican beliefs, who has forsaken any minimum baseline of character.
    I regret that that concept continues to not get through your thick hyperpartisan head.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  136. Trump wants to bring us back to 1960. Wait. 1860?

    Back to the Future III… starring Biff Tannen.

    noel (4d3313)

  137. Fuentes, a spanish surname, is a white nationalist racist? Is that reality or just more leftist name calling? If he’s a bigot, I don’t know him.

    So people with Spanish surnames aren’t white people? Cameron Diaz and Tino Martinez might have something to say to you.
    You should learn about the people you’re defending, Rob. As it is, you’re defending the person who’s defending a Holocaust-denying racist neo-Nazi. YMMV, but that’s not a hill I’d want to die on.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  138. No Klink,

    the modern Nazi’s are the progressive left that is turning the word “White” into what “Jewish” was in Nazi Germany: a group to blame for all your ills and misfortune.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/6/2020 @ 10:14 pm

    If you really think there’s a strong parallel between Jews in 1930’s German and White people in the modern US you’ve lost your fool mind.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  139. I was watching Season 4 of Man in the High Castle yesterday, and this exchange at the end of the dinner party struck me.

    Himmler: All I see in Berlin are smiling faces, everywhere I look. But there’s no one I can trust.
    John Smith: You’ll always have my loyalty.
    Himmler: I don’t want your loyalty, John. I want your devotion.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  140. Trump, the “cancel culture” critic, hoist on his own petard.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  141. Fuentes is from where the nk daughter resides/attended HS. I think hes Mexican stock with a favorable 23 and Me breakdown.

    Other than Malcolm X, what is Lil Louies’ body count? Hes an Apollo Theatre comedian with a frown without a laugh track. Sharpton actually has a body count from the Freddie’s Discount Mart arson.

    urbanleftbehind (a55e70)

  142. he’s gone full otto, he’ll be reciting aristotle in flemish, just like the proud boy scare, which included an afro cuban, well glad they are off the streets, now back to more chip dillard,

    narciso (7404b5)

  143. Good work, Rob. Smoke the Lefty Lounge Lizards out…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  144. Fuentes is from where the nk daughter resides/attended HS.

    Scared me there for a minute, urbanleftbehind. Nope, he is from Lyons. Not just the other side of the tracks, the other side of the river. Where you can see an over-60 apartment building, a slot-machine/video poker parlor, a nail salon, and the police arresting a streetwalker, all at the same time, without having to turn your head.

    nk (1d9030)

  145. But no gunfights in the streets. Sounds like progress…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  146. SF: In Bubba Wallace’s defense it is a (heavily promoted) urban legend.’

    Paul Montagu (e2c658) — 7/6/2020 @ 5:10 pm

    Sammy, if a black family in a white-majority neighborhood wakes up one morning to find a noose hanging from a tree in their front yard, do they perceive it as a racist threat or do they dismiss it as an “urban legend”–maybe have a chuckle about it–and then go about their day?

    This never happened. I repeat again, it is an urban legend.

    Search far and wide, I don’t believe you’ll find one real example.

    What about a number of cases where such a thing has been reported? (not in front of any private dwelling.)

    It is invariably a hoax, and whoever did it, it was not a white supremacist. because white supremacists don’t do such things.

    They burn, or place, crosses.

    Now maybe after enough time, you might find one white person who might have tried to do this for real, (leave an empty noose as an implied threat) I don’t know.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  147. They need to believe this noose thing… the noose is loose in the hoose of their mind. Don’t take it away, Sammy!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. 87. DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/6/2020 @ 5:46 pm

    So go ahead, JoeyBee, choose a black woman as your running mate. And lose.

    Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms might work, if she can credibly discuss foreign policy issues.

    She’s criticized “Black Lives Matter” (very very important for a black candidate) and been infected by coronavirus. (by aeans she does not know, but that’s because the precautions touted aren’t enough. She’s so far only mildly symptomatic and at first attributed it to allergies.)

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-for-citizens-to-stop-shooting-each-other-after-murder-of-8-year-old-near-blm-protest-site

    “Enough is enough,” Bottoms said. “Enough is enough. We have talked about this movement that’s happening across America and this moment in time when we have the ears and the interests of people across this country and across this globe who are saying they want to see change. But the difference in this moment in time with the civil rights movement — in the civil rights movement, there was a defined, common enemy. We’re fighting the enemy within when we are shooting each other up on our streets.”

    She continued: “You shot and killed a baby. And there wasn’t just one shooter; there were at least two shooters. An 8-year-old baby. If you want people to take us seriously, and you don’t want us to lose this movement, then we can’t lose each other.”

    Too mild, but she might get better at this.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  149. 95. Dave (1bb933) — 7/6/2020 @ 6:38 pm

    President Trump was (gasp) LYING to his cultists about NASCAR ratings being down:

    I don’t know. He might have made it up. You think he checked the ratings before his tweet?

    Trump wanted to say something was bad after these actions by NASCAR. He didn’t want to say that feelings of some fans shod be respected, so he used the utilitarian argument of ratings. His press secretary said he’s not taking an actual position on whether or not the Confederate flag should be banned from NASCAR.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  150. 96. Manataur (e632fa) — 7/6/2020 @ 6:39 pm

    Not saying that its never a hoax, but it seems to be something that still happens.

    Not still , but now happens. This never used to happen.

    And even here it’s always done by a solitary individual, who may have believed the urban legend about the use of a noose as a threat, and decided to do it himself. Maybe so that it should look like more than the work of a single individual.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  151. Keisha Lance Bottoms

    Reads like a medical procedure…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  152. Would she get mad if nominated for VP and her entrance song was the one that goes “Apple Bottom Jeans and Boots with the Fur”?

    urbanleftbehind (a55e70)

  153. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/6/2020 @ 8:18 pm

    But the hill to die on is George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Christopher Columbus, other important figures whose actions shaped our world. People we should remember, and to some extent, honor because it is inspiring to change the world.

    We’re at this phase now. By and large, the only people even moving to defend that hill are people you routinely call racist. On the other hand there is another large group who just can’t bring themselves to do anything that might be Trump adjacent even when that puts them on the side of violent marxist who are also racist and fully intend to destroy what you say should be honored.

    frosty (f27e97)

  154. No, the modern Nazis are the same old Nazis. That you keep trying to lump groups into the contorted view is telling. Fly your nationalist flag high. Do you think non beige people can’t be Americans?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (305827) — 7/6/2020 @ 10:30 pm

    What kind of bigoted language is this? Is that how you really look at people? The left’s actions speak for themselves.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  155. If you really think there’s a strong parallel between Jews in 1930’s German and White people in the modern US you’ve lost your fool mind.

    Time123 (66d88c) — 7/7/2020 @ 5:40 am

    I think the demonization of 2 groups of people is definitely paralleled and you’d have to be blind or a fool not to see it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  156. If you really think there’s a strong parallel between Jews in 1930’s German and White people in the modern US you’ve lost your fool mind.

    Time123 (66d88c) — 7/7/2020 @ 5:40 am

    I think the demonization of 2 groups of people is definitely paralleled and you’d have to be blind or a fool not to see it.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:35 am

    I think I’m going to have to let you be. It was good talking to you for a while but If you really feel this way you’re so far gone I doubt conversation is possible.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  157. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/6/2020 @ 8:18 pm

    But the hill to die on is George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Christopher Columbus, other important figures whose actions shaped our world. People we should remember, and to some extent, honor because it is inspiring to change the world.

    We’re at this phase now. By and large, the only people even moving to defend that hill are people you routinely call racist. On the other hand there is another large group who just can’t bring themselves to do anything that might be Trump adjacent even when that puts them on the side of violent marxist who are also racist and fully intend to destroy what you say should be honored.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:31 am

    Frosty your assertion isn’t True. Joe Biden made exactly that point a week ago.

    “The idea of comparing whether or not George Washington owned slaves or Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, and somebody who was in rebellion committing treason trying to take down a union to keep slavery, I think there’s a distinction there,” Biden said.

    “The idea of bringing down all those Confederate monuments to Confederate soldiers and generals who strongly supported secession and maintaining slavery and going to war to do it, I think those statues belong in museums, they don’t belong in public places,” he continued.

    “I think with regard to those statues and monuments, like the Jefferson Memorial, there’s an obligation that the government protect those monuments because they’re different. That’s a remembrance, it’s not dealing with revering somebody who had that view. They had much broader views. They may have had things in their past that were now and then distasteful, but that’s a judgment.”

    The former vice president argued that local governments should lead in the peaceful removal of statues glorifying the leaders of the Confederacy. But he said that he understands the “anger and anguish” of those who would like to see them toppled by protesters.

    “I can understand the anger and anguish that people feel by having for years and years been under the statue of Robert E. Lee if you’re an African American,” Biden said. “It’s always better to do it peacefully … the elected officials where those statues are have a responsibility to remove, put them in museums. Get them down … and don’t be surprised if someone pulls down the statue of Jefferson Davis. It’s better that they do not, but it’s fundamentally different than … grabbing Jefferson off his chair.”

    Time123 (66d88c)

  158. I think I’m going to have to let you be. It was good talking to you for a while but If you really feel this way you’re so far gone I doubt conversation is possible.

    Time123 (f5cf77) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:40 am

    Have a good day. I won’t insult you as you have me.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  159. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/trumps-rushmore-speech-was-monumentally-splendid

    Despite so much media drivel about President Trump giving a “dystopian” or “dark and divisive” or out-and-out racist speech at Mount Rushmore, his Friday speech, as written, was the single finest of Trump’s presidency.

    It featured realistic, entirely justified pushback against civilization’s despoilers. And it married that with an appropriate, much-needed celebration of the essential goodness of the United States and its history, along with plenty of unifying thoughts and proposals. . . .

    First, let’s be clear on who is waging the “culture war” for which the media blames Trump. Trump did indeed blast the “cancel culture” that is “driving people from their jobs, shaming dissenters, and demanding total submission from anyone who disagrees” so that “in our schools, our newsrooms, even our corporate boardrooms, there is a new far-left fascism that demands absolute allegiance. If you do not speak its language, perform its rituals, recite its mantras, and follow its commandments, then you will be censored, banished, blacklisted, persecuted, and punished.”

    Trump here is just speaking the truth. There has long been an established, deeply admirable civic culture in this nation; it is the radical left who now wages war against it. All over the country, people are being fired for the mere utterance of inconvenient or unwanted thoughts, even anodyne thoughts. People are being physically (and dangerously) hounded from public forums. And it is an utter assault on the rule of law itself to deface or destroy public art, as opposed to removing it through legitimate representative processes. To defend the civic culture against such assaults is not an affront, but a duty.

    Moreover, as Trump said, it is a duty rooted not in suppression but in a commitment to continued expression of the values and virtues that have “rescued billions from poverty, disease, violence, and hunger, and that lifted humanity to new heights of achievement, discovery, and progress.”

    Since when is a rejection of such destruction, married to concrete achievements and aspirational themes, somehow “dystopian?” Only an establishment media and corporate culture that are morally twisted, themselves committed to the destruction, could somehow treat a defense of decency as if it were an affront.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  160. urker (d8c5bc) — 7/7/2020 @ 12:42 am

    So why was that 30 second investment of time more onerous than speculating that your enemies of choice, “the left,” baselessly smeared Fuentes because… well they’re the left and that’s what the left does and bringing it up out of nowhere never gets old and geez where did the time go, and what were we just talking about?

    We were talking about how the noose is a common choice for racists who want to fake a hate crime. We had to jump away from that for obvious reasons.

    Do you care about fidelity to the principles you no doubt associate with your political identity? If so, and if you’re really a conservative, you should want no part of Malkin and her adoption of the bigoted “groyper” movement Fuentes is part of. If, on the other hand, you’ve prioritized tribal animosity uber alles, then congratulations. You’ve rendered principles, with all their inconvenient preoccupation with consistency, expendable.

    I don’t care about Malkin. She made a list of fake noose hate crimes. Either the list is correct or it isn’t. Drifting off into calling people nazis used to mean you’d lost the argument.

    frosty (f27e97)

  161. I

    think I’m going to have to let you be. It was good talking to you for a while but If you really feel this way you’re so far gone I doubt conversation is possible.

    Time123 (f5cf77) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:40 am

    Have a good day. I won’t insult you as you have me.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:49 am

    It wasn’t intended as an insult. I’m sorry you felt insulted. I should have picked my words more carefully. I Just think that our POV is too far apart right now for conversation to go anywhere.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  162. Time123 (66d88c) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:48 am

    Frosty your assertion isn’t True. Joe Biden made exactly that point a week ago.

    Which part isn’t true? Are you trying to make the case that Biden’s comments prove that there’s a broad across the board groundswell of people ready to defend the non-confederate historical figures within the D’s? So, far it looks like the left has captured the D’s and they’ve being very clear about their plans. Biden’s response is to basically say “hold on and let’s talk about this”.

    But him threading the needle to get elected doesn’t undermine my original point. There are a lot of people who’ve routinly taken a position because it’s opposite Trump’s and those people, even if they agree on this issue, will have trouble fighting on this hill beside people they’ve grown to hate.

    frosty (f27e97)

  163. Frosty,

    But the hill to die on is George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Christopher Columbus, other important figures whose actions shaped our world. People we should remember, and to some extent, honor because it is inspiring to change the world.

    We’re at this phase now. By and large, the only people even moving to defend that hill are people you routinely call racist

    The part that isn’t true is your claimed that the only people defending George Washington, Thomas Jefferson etc are people the left routinely calls racist. The Dem nominee for president has publicly defended them, he’s not some obscure writer whose made ‘reasonable middle grounds’ their brand. He’s the leader of the party now.

    He said this

    “I think with regard to those statues and monuments, like the Jefferson Memorial, there’s an obligation that the government protect those monuments because they’re different.”

    That’s not hold on let’s talk about this. It’s “The federal government is obligated to defend these monuments.”

    I understand how frustrating it is that someone you dislike said something you agree with but that doesn’t change the fact that he said it.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  164. st. On the other hand there is another large group who just can’t bring themselves to do anything that might be Trump adjacent even when that puts them on the side of violent marxist who are also racist and fully intend to destroy what you say should be honored.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:31 am

    I agree. The way this is being framed on the GOP side is that you need to support Trump or you support really extreme stuff. Even then, most honest Americans love their people enough that they won’t condone Trump.

    Trump’s the guy ‘concerned’ about NASCAR’s ratings because they did away with the rebel flag. He’s choosing this alignment.

    There will always be fringe. David Koresh to Asata Shakur there will be very bad people on both sides. We shouldn’t ignore them necessarily, but winking at them is not leadership.

    I can’t wait for Trump to be defeated. I know there will be a new fight against an invigorated radical element, and somewhere in each city, people will roll up their sleeves with an even harder task than they had before Trump came along. NASCAR will still be boring, its decor totally irrelevant to the human life being consumed by our leadership.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  165. Keisha Lance Bottoms

    154. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:14 am

    Reads like a medical procedure…

    She was born on January 18, 1970, maybe five years or more after African Americans, in particular, had started giving babies strange and original first names. The other two names are last names. Lance was her maiden name.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keisha_Lance_Bottoms

    In October 1994, Keisha Lance married Derek W. Bottoms at Atlanta’s Ben Hill United Methodist Church.

    Keisha Lance Bottoms doesn’t sound like a medical procedure, unless “Lance” seems to bring that to mind, but maybe a menu item in a restaurant.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  166. Like harry snapper organs of q division

    Narciso (7404b5)

  167. This never happened. I repeat again, it is an urban legend.

    My example was a hypothetical, Sammy, but these incidents happened.
    This incident happened.
    These incidents happened.
    These incidents happened.
    Are some noose incidents hoaxes? Yes. Do some incidents turn out to be cases of misinterpretation like with Bubba Wallace? Yes. Are there legitimate racist incidents involving nooses? Yes.
    Not an “urban legend”.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  168. NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/7/2020 @ 7:34 am

    What kind of bigoted language is this? Is that how you really look at people? The left’s actions speak for themselves.

    Klink explained himself in one of his recent posts about rubber and glue. He fully understands the utility of accusing someone else of exactly what he’s doing.

    Fly your nationalist flag high. Do you think non beige people can’t be Americans?

    The funny thing about this is he’s accusing you of being a white racist twice because you said something favorable about a non-white person he thinks is a nationalist. Klink’s argument is that being a nationalist means you are bigoted against non-white people, i.e. all nationalists are white nationalists. The pretzel logic is a wonder to behold and it’s designed to derail you into defending yourself from being called a racist. This is a fun, but predictable, game given his recent defense of blm, antifa, and marxism generally.

    White nationalism in an American context is a fundamentally oxymoronic phrase. It can be consistent in a German context because being German is a thing a person is, it’s an ethnic identity. A person can move to Germany, become a citizen, embrace German culture, but they still aren’t ethnically German. Being an American is fundamentally different because it’s not an ethnic identity at all. Being an American simply means embracing a set of ideals and white nationalism is inconsistent with those ideals.

    frosty (f27e97)

  169. Did Trump defend the confederate flag? No. read the tweet. The MSM just WANTS to say that.

    It’s hilarious how Trump fans think the rest of us always rely on the MSM to tell us how we should respond to what Trump tweets or says or does.
    Or that we don’t actually read or listen to Trump directly, but only through the MSM filter.

    It’s too difficult to acknowledge their own mental filters that turn dreck into gold if it comes from Trump.

    Radegunda (cd8c8c)

  170. Klink explained himself in one of his recent posts about rubber and glue. He fully understands the utility of accusing someone else of exactly what he’s doing.

    Really, please quote day and time.

    Also, he said

    the modern Nazi’s are the progressive left that is turning the word “White” into what “Jewish” was in Nazi Germany: a group to blame for all your ills and misfortune.

    A) I’m white, I’m privileged, so it’s not my misfortune anyone is talking about, so it’s not me blaming anyone for any misfortune. That is Rob conflating himself to me.
    B) Us white people have it pretty good, pretty universally, every leader in every field is a white man, kind of different than Jews in Germany or non-beige people in the US, you know, today. That you/Rob don’t see the difference, again, is kind of telling.
    C) Just because someone doesn’t fit the “race” narrative, doesn’t mean they’re not racist. See Hitler, see Milo Yipyipyipee, see Michelle Malkin. People are complex, racist AND is a standard reality. Malkin isn’t just a racist, maybe she has some good qualities too, maybe.
    D) Is today more fair than 1970, 1960, 1950, 1850, undoubtedly. Unfortunately Trump, and it appears, your view is that you’d rather have it be 1950 or 1850, that’s the America you want to make greate again. It was obvious when Trump came down the escalator, it’s obvious today.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  171. A different view of the Jefferson Memorial (definitely not mine):

    I’m a Direct Descendant of Thomas Jefferson. Take Down His Memorial.

    …..We didn’t need the Jefferson Memorial. Monticello was enough.

    It’s still enough. In fact, as a memorial to Jefferson himself, it’s almost perfect. And that is why his memorial in Washington should be taken down and replaced. Described by the National Park Service as “a shrine to freedom,” it is anything but.

    The memorial is a shrine to a man who during his lifetime owned more than 600 slaves and had at least six children with one of them, Sally Hemings. It’s a shrine to a man who famously wrote that “all men are created equal” in the Declaration of Independence that founded this nation — and yet never did much to make those words come true. Upon his death, he did not free the people he enslaved, other than those in the Hemings family, some of whom were his own children. He sold everyone else to pay off his debts.
    …..
    I am the sixth-generation great-grandson of a slave owner. My cousins from the Sally Hemings family are also the great-grandchildren of a slave owner. But the difference is that our great-grandfather owned their great-grandmother. ……
    ……
    At Monticello, ….. you will learn the history of Jefferson, the slave owner. Monticello is an almost perfect memorial, because it reveals him with his moral failings in full, an imperfect man, a flawed founder.
    …….
    If the name sound familiar, Lucian Truscott IV’s grandfather, Lucian Jr., was a US Army general during World War II where he commanded the 3rd Infantry Division and later the Fifth Army in Italy (played by John Doucette in Patton). His father Lucian III served in the US Army in Korea and Vietnam, retiring as a colonel.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  172. Time123 (66d88c) — 7/7/2020 @ 8:24 am

    The part that isn’t true is your claimed that the only people defending George Washington, Thomas Jefferson etc are people the left routinely calls racist.

    My comment included

    By and large

    It’s a no-win. If I put in qualifying language it’s ignored. If I don’t it spirals into a rabbit hole about absolutes.

    The Dem nominee for president has publicly defended them, he’s not some obscure writer whose made ‘reasonable middle grounds’ their brand. He’s the leader of the party now.

    And that is the only reason he isn’t being called a racists. The people speaking out on the other side routinely say anyone defending them is a racist. Are they being inconsistent? Yes. By their own framing Biden is a racists for defending these statues. So, we’re playing a word game that relies on a group of dishonest and inconsistent people being honest and consistent.

    frosty (f27e97)

  173. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/7/2020 @ 8:26 am

    I agree. The way this is being framed on the GOP side is that you need to support Trump or you support really extreme stuff. Even then, most honest Americans love their people enough that they won’t condone Trump.

    And on the other side, this is being framed as any mention of statues is a racists dog whistle because of confederate statues, i.e. we’re going to tear down whatever we want and standing against that is standing with Trump and racists.

    frosty (f27e97)

  174. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/7/2020 @ 8:59 am

    That you/Rob don’t see the difference, again, is kind of telling.

    This is an odd blind spot I keep seeing from you and I’m not sure if this is intentional. Criticizing you isn’t agreeing with NJRob’s position. I can have independent opinions about both sides of that discussion.

    That you keep doing this and saying it’s kind of telling is kind of telling and the irony, and humor seems to be lost on you. You’ve gone down this long road of racism, nazis, nationalists, etc. simply because you didn’t want to have the fake noose conversation. Instead, you’d rather assert that people on the other side of this issue from you are inherently bad because they are racists. So, you are an example behind the other threads I’ve got with Dustin and Time123.

    frosty (f27e97)

  175. Since this thread is generally about Trump, the media has gotten hold of his niece’s book. No surprises so far. It’s fairly accepted that Trump chose “cheating as a way of life”.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  176. @175,
    Frosty, I’m not trying to play word games. But when the leader of a group says “not X” than by and large the it’s incorrect to say the group believes in “x”.

    To me it’s clear that Biden is a centrist Dem, and that the far left wing of the party isn’t listening to him. I think the fact that he won the nomination pretty handily means that most of the left agrees with him, and not the mob. I’m not aware that there’s been any equivocation on this by him.

    I think he should be doing more to push that message and that there are some simple things he could have done, and could still do, to make that distinction clearer. To me it seems clear that he doesn’t think he needs to do them to get elected, so he’s not doing them.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  177. I think he should be doing more to push that message and that there are some simple things he could have done, and could still do, to make that distinction clearer. To me it seems clear that he doesn’t think he needs to do them to get elected, so he’s not doing them.

    Biden could do more to centralize some of the left wing, but Trump is responding by going full neo-confederate.

    If Trump wants to ignore the first rule of holes, shut up and let him keep digging.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  178. Democrats: Doing their best to undermine the country, they’ll take no responsibility for their mobs and shock troops, while pointing their bloody fingers at America.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. this is being framed as any mention of statues is a racists dog whistle because of confederate statues

    Of course supporting honoring the confederacy is a racist dog whistle. Who do you think put those things up? A black man walking beneath one of these statues probably hates them intensely, and I don’t see why this has to be considered wrong of him.

    We’re going to tear down whatever we want and standing against that is standing with Trump and racists.

    That is the most extreme interpretation of the democrats. If they all wanted to tear down a lot of stuff, there’s nothing we could do to stop them. We’re talking about 100 million people. Most of them want the same thing most Republicans want. We all hear how insane the opposite side is because votes are based on fear. Biden beat Bernie. Plain and simple the democrats rejected the fringe.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  180. Keisha Lance Bottoms doesn’t sound like a medical procedure, unless “Lance” seems to bring that to mind, but maybe a menu item in a restaurant.

    Sammy, if you develop a boil on your keister, you’ll be prescribed antibiotics, if they lance your bottom…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  181. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/7/2020 @ 11:47 am

    Trump is responding by going full neo-confederate.

    It’s impressive that he can do that by using dog whistles only people who hate him can hear.

    frosty (f27e97)

  182. jeanne kirkpatrick, said it best in 1984, about pelosi’s posse, the blame america first crowd,

    narciso (7404b5)

  183. Democrats: Doing their best to undermine the country, they’ll take no responsibility for their mobs and shock troops, while pointing their bloody fingers at America.

    Hey look, Mr. Projection is back!

    Quick quiz:

    In the midst of a national disaster that has so far claimed a quarter of a million American lives, which party’s leader famously said, “I don’t take responsibility at all” … and meant it?

    No fair looking it up on the inter webs!

    Dave (1bb933)

  184. Frederick Douglas, miguel cervantes, (who was a slave in algiers) and robert gould shaw, odd confederates, while flashing the kenti cloth of slave trading assanti chieftains,

    narciso (7404b5)

  185. Has anyone read Biden’s platform? There’s nothing moderate in there and he has accepted the socialist’s positions entirely.

    NJRob (4fd2eb)

  186. It’s impressive that he can do that by using dog whistles only people who hate him can hear.

    Well, for his followers he uses “White Power!” videos instead…

    Dave (1bb933)

  187. Oops, an eighth, not a quarter…

    Fractions are hard!

    Dave (1bb933)

  188. If Trump retweets this, maybe we’ll think he’s totally racist, if he doesn’t, he’s still kinda racist, or just a caucasian enthusiast.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  189. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/7/2020 @ 12:06 pm

    Of course supporting honoring the confederacy is a racist dog whistle.

    I’m not arguing in favor of confederate statues here. My point was people turn any statement about statues generally, even when non-confederate statues are mentioned explicitly, into statements about confederate statues and that this is dishonest. You turn my statements about statues generally into a comment about confederate statues. My other point was that even though you say we should defend the non-confederate statues you’ll make excuses based on the confederate ones that allow you to avoid the issues. You go back to confederate statues to avoid the issue.

    Plain and simple the democrats rejected the fringe.

    And yet we still have riots and violence in D controlled cities that are being blamed on anything else but D’s, D’s aren’t stopping it and in some cases have enabled it, and people are saying with a straight face that D’s have rejected the fringe.

    frosty (f27e97)

  190. And yet we still have riots and violence in D controlled cities that are being blamed on anything else but D’s, D’s aren’t stopping it and in some cases have enabled it, and people are saying with a straight face that D’s have rejected the fringe.

    We have violence in R controlled cities, and R’s aren’t stopping it.

    It’s almost like crime doesn’t respect lines on maps, and in cities where more people live have more crime, or small towns like Hunter Oklahoma, population 165.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  191. 193… how amusing… that’s the lamest excuse-making that you’ve come up with.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  192. Oops, an eighth, not a quarter…

    Fractions are hard!

    So are hard drugs. Debilitating too.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  193. It’s impressive that he can do that by using dog whistles only people who hate him can hear.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/7/2020 @ 12:10 pm

    Frosty, this is provably false. The Ku Klux Klan has earnestly and repeatedly praised Trump for these remarks, and they have endorsed him.

    Find me a white supremacist organization that isn’t supportive of Trump. Find me one that likes Joe Biden.

    Has anyone read Biden’s platform? There’s nothing moderate in there and he has accepted the socialist’s positions entirely.

    NJRob (4fd2eb) — 7/7/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    Well I told ya so. Trump is the kind of historic failure that leaves a dent. Trump in 2016 was the best chance the hard left had to get what it wanted. No conservative should have voted for him.

    But the democrats picked Biden over Bernie for a reason. And the more patriotic conservatives leave the GOP, the harder it is for the radicals to run the democratic party.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  194. Of course supporting honoring the confederacy is a racist dog whistle.

    No. It’s full on racist. There’s no subtle hinting. If you’re pro-confederacy you’re being racist.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  195. In the few months that remain before the election, Americans will be subjected to a schiffstorm of the Democrat/BLM versions of social justice, social progress, medical progress, and such. The only thing that won’t get much play at all will be any discussion of their ulterior motives.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  196. And yet we still have riots and violence in D controlled cities that are being blamed on anything else but D’s, D’s aren’t stopping it and in some cases have enabled it, and people are saying with a straight face that D’s have rejected the fringe.

    Because they have. In the primary there were lots of choices for the dems. They picked Biden. That’s a pretty clear rejection of the more extreme parts of the party.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  197. But the democrats picked Biden over Bernie for a reason. And the more patriotic conservatives leave the GOP, the harder it is for the radicals to run the democratic party.

    Classic Rick Wilsonisms…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  198. Bernie’s bros and broettes, rule the streets, in minneapolis, seattle, ny, he’s like melvin belli in that trek episode,

    narciso (7404b5)

  199. If you’re pro-confederacy you’re being racist.

    Agreed. Remind me what’s the name of this straw man who’s pro-confederacy?

    beer ‘n pretzels (7dbf31)

  200. 191, girlie not Euro enough for his tastes…and probably obvious tweet bait (reminds me of John Turturro’s soliloquy in Do the Right Thing).

    urbanleftbehind (5cff54)

  201. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/7/2020 @ 12:36 pm

    For anyone too lazy to check the links the 3rd one that Klink provided as evidence of “riots and violence” was a suspected gang-related shooting in Ft Worth TX. The 2nd one is an article about several shootings in Jacksonville FL and the 1st is about a gang-related shooting in San Deigo. In all cases, police responded to the incidents and are actively investigating, i.e. doing something about it.

    Did anyone think my comment was about random violence? Did anyone think I was suggesting that there was no violence in any cities with R politicians? Or did everyone understand that I was referring to blm and antifa related violence, i.e. the stuff we’ve been talking about for weeks?

    Klink, you are being dishonest. Why even waste time on such an embarrassing response? You couldn’t find any examples of blm or antifa rioting going on in R controlled cities? There have to be at least one or two nights of it somewhere. Now I’m thinking I was more correct than I expected.

    frosty (f27e97)

  202. Time123 (7cca75) — 7/7/2020 @ 1:03 pm

    Because they have. In the primary there were lots of choices for the dems. They picked Biden. That’s a pretty clear rejection of the more extreme parts of the party.

    Maybe but I’m skeptical. The power of the D establishment is waining and the hard left is gaining more control each week. They were able to drag Biden over the primary line but they don’t have the grip they used to have.

    What happens to your faith when Biden picks a hard left/SJW VP? It’s going to be hard to not pick one out of the pool in the primaries. Names of mayor’s keep getting tossed out and it’s usually ones in cities where the rioting is ongoing.

    frosty (f27e97)

  203. The fact a party is considering candidates whose highest office is Mayor is certainly an indictment of their development and appeal (I can only think of Giuliani, perhaps some County Sheriffs, but most local exec’s have gotten to the US Senate or to the Govs chair before appearing on R radar).

    urbanleftbehind (5cff54)

  204. When a majority of your housing stock forms one continuous 600 foot or more block of 2 story homes with no gangways between, crazy will abound.

    urbanleftbehind (5cff54)

  205. What happens to your faith when Biden picks a hard left/SJW VP?

    Frosty thinks Biden will do this because presidential candidates usually balance their ticket. In other words he understands why he’s mistaken.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  206. straw man who’s pro-confederacy?

    beer ‘n pretzels (7dbf31) — 7/7/2020 @ 1:06 pm

    Is this a joke about his hair?

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  207. Dustin (b62cc4) — 7/7/2020 @ 2:23 pm

    Mistaken about what? I’m mistaken about Biden being hard left?

    frosty (f27e97)

  208. SF: This never happened. I repeat again, it is an urban legend.

    170: Paul Montagu (e2c658) — 7/7/2020 @ 8:45 am

    My example was a hypothetical, Sammy, but these incidents happened.

    This incident happened.
    These incidents happened.
    These incidents happened.
    Are some noose incidents hoax

    Have you checked them out?

    Your first link:

    https://www.ajc.com/news/nooses-dark-symbols-hate-appear-across-amid-racial-tensions/3XrpC88dfeqz6v5rBp4NdK

    Six separate incidents that were initially thought to be racist displays have turned out to be false alarms, Tuesday’s count of the incidents revealed.

    Most that were supposed to have been real involved hanging in effigy and/or were images.

    In one case someone put it outside his own house. Another one had a mannequin dressed in a New York Police uniform, with a pig mask on its face, dangling by rope from an overpass in Jacksonville, Florida. Did a white supremacist do that to intimidate African Americans? None of the more real ones was anything like another. all of them seem inspired by the publicity about nooses.

    involved a re-posting

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  209. 211… get used to mischaracterization and questioning your motivation, frosty.

    It’s how NeverTrump rolls…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  210. Have you checked them out?

    Yes. Like I said, some are hoaxes, and there are also confirmed cases in those links. Additionally…
    Not hoaxes.
    Not hoaxes.
    Not a hoax.
    Not hoaxes.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  211. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/7/2020 @ 4:05 pm

    Way ahead of you. I wanted to respond but too what?

    frosty (f27e97)

  212. What happens to your faith when Biden picks a hard left/SJW VP? It’s going to be hard to not pick one out of the pool in the primaries. Names of mayor’s keep getting tossed out and it’s usually ones in cities where the rioting is ongoing.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/7/2020 @ 1:40 pm

    I don’t trust Biden but even if he picks a hard left VP, it might only be to solidify the votes and not a policy/philosophical move. Like Trump and Pence.

    DRJ (aede82)

  213. 214.

    1. Two incidents from 2007 in the same place (Coast Guard Academy)

    Nobdy found out who did t:

    https://www.thehour.com/norwalk/article/Probe-fails-to-determine-who-left-nooses-at-Coast-8279880.php

    2. Lawsuit filed in 2013.

    In the summer of 2011, Crawford saw a noose hanging from a light fixture in an operating room he was assigned to clean, according to the suit, which Nistico admitted to hanging.

    A year later, Nistico hung another noose from his locker in a dressing room Crawford and Cox frequented…

    …..Nistico told the Daily News he regretted placing the noose in the locker room, which he said was a “goof” directed at another surgeon who had been difficult to work with and prompted those working in the operating room to complain they wanted to “hang themselves.”

    Nistico said the noose came as a result of a conversation with Militana concerning capital punishment and how one could be decapitated if the hanging scaffolding was built too high.

    “Dr. Militana asked if I knew how to make a noose,” Nistico told the Daily News, and the two left one they made in the locker room as an afterthought.

    “It was something that was done that was stupid on my behalf,” Nistico told the Daily News.

    A cover story?

    3. Two teenagers in 2007 in a Houston high school, around Halloween.

    4. 2017. Newspaper story collects incidents. Says it is an uptick.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  214. @Paul Montagu: It is hard for me to get a fix on this, but the idea of leaving a noose as a threat is ahistorical. I think it all started out as a hoax or an urban legend.

    It could be this is a lie that became real – a bit. The possibly real incidents all seem to take place in schools, or at places of work. I wonder what is the oldest one.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  215. I don’t know what to say, Sammy. Malkin produced examples of noose hoaxes going back to 2007, but there are real noose incidents that I documented going back to that same year. I didn’t bother going further back in time because I was trying to go with her timeline, just to be consistent.
    I think it’s fair to say that noose incidents are not frequent occurrences, but occur they do, and they are distinctly racial.

    Paul Montagu (c9d3c1)


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