Patterico's Pontifications

7/3/2020

Mutated Coronavirus Strain More Infectious, Makes No Difference To Trump and Gov. Noem

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:26 am



[guest post by Dana]

The coronavirus is mutating, and scientists say that the new strain is three to nine times more infectious:

The novel coronavirus strain tearing through the United States is a new mutation which is much better at spreading from person to person, an international team of researchers has found. “It is now the dominant form infecting people,” Erica Ollmann Saphire of the La Jolla Institute for Immunology and the Coronavirus Immunotherapy Consortium told CNN, adding: “This is now the virus.” However, although the mutant strain has become better at spreading itself, it doesn’t seem to be making people any sicker or more likely to die when compared to the original. “We do know that the new virus is fitter. It doesn’t look at first glance as if it is worse,” Saphire told the network.

If you think this will compel more mask-wearing, you would be wrong. President Trump is in South Dakota today for a pre-Fourth of July spectacle, where ardent Trump supporter Gov. Kristi Noem has told the 7,500 expected attendees that they will not be required to wear a mask or practice social distancing:

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem says the thousands of people who attend the July 3 celebration for Independence Day at Mount Rushmore with President Donald Trump will not be required to practice social distancing despite an increase in coronavirus cases across the country.

“We will have a large event at July 3rd. We told those folks that have concerns that they can stay home, but those who want to come and join us, we’ll be giving out free face masks, if they choose to wear one. But we will not be social distancing,” Noem, a Republican, said in an interview Monday night on Fox News’ “The Ingraham Angle.”

State officials have told the people of South Dakota “to focus on personal responsibility,” said Noem, adding, “Every one of them has the opportunity to make a decision that they’re comfortable with.”

A website detailing information for the July 3 event says that “attendance will be limited” through an online lottery that occurred in June “to around 7,500 participants.”

While the website for the celebration makes no mention of social distancing or providing face masks, the National Park Service says “We ask the public to be our partner in adopting social distancing practices when visiting parks.”

Like Trump, Noem wants people to make the decision that they’re comfortable with. Obviously, the problem with that thinking is that the disease is indiscriminate and doesn’t care about your comfort level. This would be a great opportunity for the Lone Ranger to actually make an appearance wearing a mask, and appeal to attendees to also mask-up to protect their neighbors. You know, lead by example… But we all know that’s not going to happen. At least the event is being held outdoors, so hopefully that will help reduce the rate of possible transmission.

You can see a current map of coronavirus numbers in South Dakota here.

–Dana

183 Responses to “Mutated Coronavirus Strain More Infectious, Makes No Difference To Trump and Gov. Noem”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. Good morning, Dana. I have nothing nice to say about Trump and Kristi Noem, so I’ll wait a while before I say it.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. “ but doesn’t make people sicker”

    Tell us more……
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  4. Like Trump, Noem wants people to make the decision that they’re comfortable with. Obviously, the problem with that thinking is that the disease is indiscriminate and doesn’t care about your comfort level. This would be a great opportunity for the Lone Ranger to actually make an appearance wearing a mask, and appeal to attendees to also mask-up to protect their neighbors. You know, lead by example… But we all know that’s not going to happen. At least the event is being held outdoors, so hopefully that will help reduce the rate of possible transmission.

    Trump is a terrible leader, he won’t be able to do this.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  5. Well if there’s a rush of “red” RedPillers signing in, there’s gonna be a Lone Ranger bit after all.

    urbanleftbehind (f30cc7)

  6. The novel coronavirus strain tearing through the United States is a new mutation

    I don;t think that;s the case

    The novel coronavirus strain tearing through the United States is an older mutation.

    It’s the strain that existed in Wuhan. Wuhan was locked down earlier and more than the rest of China.

    The rest of the world first got exposed to the less infectious strain that circulated in the rest of China.

    Only later did the Wuhan/Italy/New York version get around.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  7. 4.

    appeal to attendees to also mask-up to protect their neighbors.

    In order to protect your neighbors, you have to be infected, and if you suspect you are infected, you shouldn’t be there at all.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  8. based on what science

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/serological-test_antibody-test-results-suggest-6x-more-covid-19-infections-in-geneva/45712418

    remember when sweden was considered the outlier of epidemiological treatment,

    narciso (7404b5)

  9. should we take fauci’s original findings about the virus, at face value, or is this just another episode of what berenson calls ‘the republic of pandemia’

    narciso (7404b5)

  10. In order to protect your neighbors, you have to be infected, and if you suspect you are infected, you shouldn’t be there at all.

    Really, well, as long as you don’t know, it’s fine. It’s fine, the virus only bothers you if you know about it. It’s fine. Nah, just fine.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  11. most are asymptomatic, mortality is about 0.4 percent, for that the world’s economy was shut down, with all the attendant social, health, psychological as well as economic costs,

    narciso (7404b5)

  12. This is a test for “a specific antibody type G, which is directed against the pathogen.”

    That would sound like it is for something that is unique to SARS-CoV-2.

    But people may have antibodies against one or more of the four human coronaviruses that merely cause colds: 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, and a lot of these antibodies also work against SARS-CoV-2.

    https://f1000researchdata.s3.amazonaws.com/manuscripts/25889/217469a8-2587-4836-84fb-349e33eecab6_23458_-_johannes_dijkstra.pdf

    And somewhere I read it’s been estimates that about half the population of the world was infected (= has antibodies or antibody mwmory) by 3 out of the 4 coronaviruses that cause the common cold.

    We started with a runner on second base.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  13. there has never been a vaccine against the common cold, or any corona strain, why would we think that would happen now,

    narciso (7404b5)

  14. 11. narciso (7404b5) — 7/3/2020 @ 10:08 am

    most are asymptomatic,

    Because a majority of the population of the world has significant immunity. And the immune response could be speeded up by taking the oral polio vaccine, which maybe should be given to people in high risk situations.

    mortality is about 0.4 percent, for that the world’s economy was shut down, with all the attendant social, health, psychological as well as economic costs,

    Yes, yes.

    But we still have the fact that 20% or so of the population is in danger, not having contracted a cowpox version of this virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  15. Good morning, Dana. I have nothing nice to say about Trump and Kristi Noem, so I’ll wait a while before I say it.

    I think you’ve kept us waiting quite long enough.

    How rude!

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. 13. narciso (7404b5) — 7/3/2020 @ 10:12 am

    there has never been a vaccine against the common cold, or any corona strain, why would we think that would happen now,

    There;s no vaccine against the common cold because there are too many different versions of it,

    https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

    And it’s not just one you need to dodge. There are more than 200 that can lay you low.

    And it’s not serious enough a disease to be worth vaccinating against.

    SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t mutate so readily, so any vaccine against it is likely to continue to work. It;s not like the influenza virus.

    But I do see another problem. A vaccine may induce Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome. That can be treated well, tough, if detected in time.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  17. reasonable treatment protocols should be taken, this is why surgisphere and the nejm, should be sanctioned for rank malpractice in scientific publishing, and it’s impact on medical protocols,

    narciso (7404b5)

  18. Other people may need to wear a mask because they may be infected, but Trump and anybody who gets close to him is tested frequently enough so he can be pretty close to certain he’s not infected. (low grade asks are not so useful in preventing an infection.)

    Now, Herman Cain got infected but nobody knows if it happened at the Tulsa rally or somewhere else.

    You could say Trump created a situation where some other people could get infected, and even if they recover completely, they could get really sick.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  19. 17. narciso (7404b5) — 7/3/2020 @ 10:26 am

    reasonable treatment protocols should be taken, this is why surgisphere and the nejm, should be sanctioned for rank malpractice in scientific publishing, and it’s impact on medical protocols,

    They are not important. What’s important is who was responsible for the fraudulant studies, and there needs to be a grand jury investigation with subpoenas and search warrants culminating in indictments.

    If they can do it to people who cheat at college admissions, they can do that here too.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  20. We care about masks and social distancing now that the protests have had their turn.

    My governor has an ad out proclaiming “Wearing a mask shouldn’t be a political statement”. Too late for that. The mask and social distance scolds made it that way. Congratulations.

    beer ‘n pretzels (afb340)

  21. I would think imperial college, and the u washington should be the focus by the crown prosecution service as well the us attys office, sarc, like that’s going to happen,

    narciso (7404b5)

  22. when everyone’s on the same page, 9/10 times they are wrong about something, but only berenson, justin hart, james todaro, seem to speak truth to power, also michael fumento,

    narciso (7404b5)

  23. DeSantis gambled and lost. Kemp gambled and lost. Abbott gambled and lost. Ducey gambled and lost. McMaster gambled and lost.
    But hey, I’m sure it’ll all work out fine for Ms. Noem. Hope is a plan!

    Paul Montagu (68d887)

  24. what mostly asymptomatic cases, fewer fatalities, you’re really either a fool or a tool, I’m gathering the latter,

    narciso (7404b5)

  25. “The mask and social distance scolds made it that way. ”

    The “wearing a mask is tyranny” people made it that way.

    Davethulhu (f33f98)

  26. South Dakota isn’t Los Angeles. Staying 6 feet away from everyone else is the default condition there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. It is possible for Trump and a governor to say the same things and only one of them is wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. In order to protect your neighbors, you have to be infected, and if you suspect you are infected, you shouldn’t be there at all.

    But in reality it means that “if you expect you will show symptoms next Tuesday, you shouldn’t be there at all.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. I was wearing an N95 mask in mid-March, when Fauci and others were ridiculing the notion. All they can claim here is that Trump is dumber.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. should we take fauci’s original findings about the virus, at face value, or is this just another episode of what berenson calls ‘the republic of pandemia’

    narciso (7404b5) — 7/3/2020 @ 10:01 am

    You go ahead and do what you like. Attend rally’s, lick subway seats, under cook chicken, shake hands with homeless people eat with your fingers go wild man. Don’t let those ‘doctors’ with their ‘fancy degrees’ or ‘subject matter expertise’ push you around. Show them who’s boss and wash your hands in a urinal!

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  31. Paul Montagu (68d887) — 7/3/2020 @ 10:55 am

    DeSantis gambled and lost.

    Deaths in FL have been fairly steady over Apr, May, and Jun.

    Kemp gambled and lost.

    Deaths in GA have been on a downward trend since Apr 30th.

    Abbott gambled and lost.

    Deaths in TX show higher variability in the google online tool than FL and GA but I’m not sure he lost.

    AZ is having some issues. I’m not sure what’s going on with SC. I think that needs more analysis. For that matter, I think all of the data needs more analysis than this number is higher than that number which seems to be the best we’re getting in the media.

    But hey, keep pretending any of this data analysis is very deep or helps us make any sort of meaningful policy decisions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  32. some people are just obtuse, frosty, reasonable precautions need to be taken, the vulnerable need to protected, but the northeast (including parker) and midwest governors, have been not merely negligent but complicit, along with the national press,

    narciso (7404b5)

  33. Politics has made us so crazy that using or refusing to use a mask has been turned into a social or political statement

    Fortunately this derangement has not infected the vast majority of Americans,normal people who don’t spend every moment thinking about politics & culture wars

    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) July 3, 2020

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  34. Frosty,

    notice Paul doesn’t mention California for some reason. He just wants to bash Republican governors. Funny how that works.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  35. @35-
    Probably because the named states lead the charge to reopen.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  36. Officials: Students in Alabama threw COVID contest parties
    …….
    Students hosted the parties to intentionally infect each other with the new coronavirus, news outlets quoted Tuscaloosa City Councilor Sonya McKinstry as saying. McKinstry said party organizers purposely invited guests who tested positive for COVID-19. She said the students put money in a pot and whoever got COVID first would get the cash.
    ……..
    Tuscaloosa Fire Chief Randy Smith told the City Council on Tuesday that fire officials confirmed some students had attended parties despite knowing they were infected. The department thought the parties were rumors, but Smith said after some research, officials discovered they were real.
    …….
    Dr. Ramesh Peramsetty, a local physician, was quoted by the Tuscaloosa News as saying that there had been rumors of parties for about a month.

    “While my nursing staff was triaging patients for COVID-19 swabbing, they were told about the COVID-19 house parties and were even shown videos of the parties by college students,” Peramsetty said. “When students are called for results, we noticed that some were very excited and happy that they were positive, while others were very upset that they were negative.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  37. Probably because the named states lead the charge to reopen.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514) — 7/3/2020 @ 12:21 pm

    Nah, that’s not it. Try again.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  38. notice Paul doesn’t mention California for some reason. He just wants to bash Republican governors. Funny how that works.

    California’s rate of 16 new cases per 100,000 per day is lower than these states

    Arizona(50), Florida(38), South Carolina(31), Louisiana(24), Nevada(24), Georgia(23), Texas(22), Alabama(20), Mississippi(20), Arkansas(19), Tennessee(19) and Utah(18).

    (That is a complete list).

    The recent rise is indeed problematic, regardless, and I’m glad Newsom is being responsible about fighting it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  39. Florida still surging as 11 states report record highs of average daily new cases
    …….
    Heading into the holiday weekend, at least 11 states — Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina and Wisconsin — are seeing the rolling average of new cases hit record highs. Florida on Friday reported its seven-day average of new cases was 7,948 — the 26th consecutive day the state has set a record in its seven-day rolling average. Arizona set a single-day high with 4,433 new cases as of Friday. More than 3,000 people in the state are hospitalized with covid-19, depleting the state’s ICU bed capacity to just 9 percent, according to the state’s latest health data.
    …….
    Ahead of a three-day holiday weekend, Chicago and Pennsylvania announced new travel quarantine measures for arrivals from coronavirus hot spot states: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Utah. The order goes into effect July 6.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  40. AZ is having some issues.

    As is New Mexico, but these are largely concentrated in the Navajo Nation which has ignored most every warning there was, then played the victim card.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. “Surging in cases” is that third kind of lie that Disraeli spoke of. Hospitalizations and/or deaths are meaningful, but for many 20-somethings it’s just an annoyance. Maybe if you held people responsible for knowingly attending events while Covid-positive — an act not unlike drunk driving — you’d get some traction, but I’d guess you just get lest testing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. Sonora health officials seek tougher border restrictions with Arizona over COVID-19 spread
    The top health official leading coronavirus response efforts in the Mexican state of Sonora will petition the federal government in Mexico City to implement stricter controls at the state’s shared border with Arizona over concerns about the uncontrolled spread of COVID-19.
    ……..
    Arizona has one of the highest infection rates in the United States and has continued to break daily records in the number of confirmed positive cases and hospitalizations. The state’s Department of Health Services had reported 84,092 COVID-19 cases and 1,720 deaths as of Wednesday night.

    Across the border, Sonora has also seen infection rates soar and has among the highest number of cases in Mexico, despite having one of the smallest populations.
    …….
    [The] petition calls for greater restrictions on Mexico-bound traffic that mirror those the U.S. government has in place until July 21 for northbound traffic coming from Mexico, which allows travel only for work, health or emergency reasons.

    In anticipation of the Fourth of July weekend, the state government announced plans to place filters at Sonora’s main border cities to turn back tourists and other traveling for nonessential reasons, KJZZ reported.
    …….
    The (Mexican Foreign) ministry said Mexico-bound travelers would be vetted at border crossings, and asked those traveling for tourism and recreational purposes to stay away or risk “impeded access” into the country.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  43. And really, this hurts-Trump/helps-Trump spin on stuff that is So utterly predictable from certain posters is beyond tiresome. Give. It. A. Rest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. ….. for many 20-somethings it’s just an annoyance.
    For individuals that may be true, but they can go on and infect elderly adults.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  45. And really, this hurts-Trump/helps-Trump spin on stuff that is So utterly predictable from certain posters is beyond tiresome. Give. It. A. Rest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/3/2020 @ 12:54 pm

    I actually agree.

    But it’s an election year and the Russia stuff really has me amped like 50 times more than I was a few months ago.

    But in a crisis, we have to work together. Trump has modified his stance on masks, as has the Texas governor on many things. That’s a political risk but it’s good for Americans and should be praised (but will be ridiculed). I think the closer people are to the actual death the more this kind of ghoulish crap is irritating.

    I also think one of Trump’s points is true. Testing can be propaganda. It can be manipulated, like in New york, to suggest progress. Obviously his conclusion, to reduce testing, is terrible. But the only real difference is that Trump says this crap out loud. Plenty of leaders with full cognitive function are just doing the misdeed.

    We are so lucky to be Americans and I hope everyone has a beautiful fourth of July, enjoying their precious families and lives, because there’s more to this stuff than politics.

    Dustin (ec9180)

  46. Rip Murdock (cbe514) — 7/3/2020 @ 12:32 pm

    An SEC fan of various sorts might point out that this happened at Alabama and not Auburn and a die-hard rambling-wreck fan might get some satisfaction about that ACC decision.

    frosty (f27e97)

  47. notice Paul doesn’t mention California for some reason. He just wants to bash Republican governors. Funny how that works.

    I notice that NJRob likes to impugn the integrity of people for disloyalty to Trump.
    Newsom was more conservative about stay-in orders and such, and he took the virus seriously, but there is no single reason for the spike, not that’d you give a rip, Rob. You’d rather point-score.

    Paul Montagu (68d887)

  48. Dana, this conclusion is not merited. Please consider reading the following from Dr. Vincent Racaniello, who has been doing his best to keep everyone informed. What he writes is correct.

    “Don’t believe the headlines that SARS-CoV-2 is becoming more transmissible!

    The data are simply not there to make this conclusion. I’m sorry that my virology colleagues, including Dr. Fauci, are making conclusions that are not justified by the data. Here’s what we know.

    1. A single amino acid change in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, D614G, has become prevalent is many parts of the world. This observation in itself doesn’t mean very much. It could be that the change arose early in the outbreak and as this virus spread to other areas it was maintained because it has no fitness cost. Whether the change has been selected for – as claimed by many virologists – needs to be proven and it has not been.

    2. The D614G change appears to make the virus more infectious in cells in culture. However, the cells that have been used are irrelevant to human transmission. Even if human lung cells were used, I would argue that increased infectivity in cells in culture cannot be used to assume that increased transmission occurs in humans.

    3. It is important to determine if viruses with D614G behave differently in humans. These experiments have not been done. One experiment would be to determine if the change leads to higher shedding of INFECTIOUS VIRUS from the upper tract. Some results have been published using PCR detection, but these are insufficient. PCR product is not infectious virus! I would also like to see epidemiological studies showing increased transmission of this virus in humans. If the dispersion factor k of SARS-CoV-2 suggests that few people spread most of the infections, we could determine if those spreaders have D or G at 614.

    4. I’m surprised that my virology colleagues are so quick to make assumptions without the data. Always happens in an outbreak situation. You might remember during the 2015 Ebolavirus outbreak in West Africa, a virus arose and predominated with a single amino acid change in the spike protein. This change made the virus more infectious in cells in culture in the laboratory, but was never shown to have any effect on human transmission. In a nonhuman primate model, the change reduced virulence of the virus. Sound familiar?

    5. I am disappointed in the lack of rigor being applied to rapidly emerging data on SARS-CoV-2. This concern not only applies to the D614G change, but to other aspects of work on this virus, such as development of vaccines.

    6. While I understand that journalists might not understand these subtleties, there is no excuse for any virologist to claim that the D614G change increases virus transmission in humans. It is simply not a tenable conclusion. I’m willing to change my mind if more data emerges, but for now, I’m not convinced that D614G is nothing more than a polymorphism with no phenotypic consequences in humans.”

    There are so many shouty headlines and so many people (I am NOT talking about folks here) who seem invested in the worst possible news on all topics.

    Simon Jester (5856df)

  49. Hydroxychloroquine is good. Hydroxychloroquine is bad. Hydroxychloroquine is good again. So many things get reported then contradicted. May be this CNN story will be contradicted in a new story / new study next week. I’m at the point that I don’t trust anything.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  50. The surgisphere fraud and other studies that didnt include zinc or had excessive dosing or were administered at late stages.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  51. 52. Then trust your own judgment. That’s what I’ve been doing for months. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  52. As the coronavirus rages across Texas, Gov. Abbott has relented and ordered mandatory mask wearing in public. He’s also closed bars, restaurants for in-door dining, and banned social gatherings larger than 10 people.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gov-greg-abbott-moves-to-stop-covid-19-but-its-already-out-of-control?ref=home

    It’s a little late for that. You can’t gain control of something already out of control.

    All of this could have been avoided. Numerous countries were able to contain outbreaks, because they took this novel coronavirus serious months ago, instituted national plans for testing, tracing, social distancing, mask wearing, and isolation of the infected. They’ve seen their infection, hospitalization and death rates drop.

    The United States, under Trump, who lives in denial, has seen a dramatic rise in infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Wednesday saw the largest number of confired cases, over 50,000. That’s in a single day. Thursday broke that record, with over 51,000 reported cases in a single day.

    The problem with testing is in delayed results. People take a test, but they don’t get the results for two to four days, over a week in some cases, later. That’s why we’re seeing this sipke in cases now–these people were tested last week, but the results are just coming in now.

    If positive, how many other people were infected by this asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic person in the mean time?

    This is how the coronavirus spreads, surreptitiously. One infected person, asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic could infect everyone he or she comes in contact with. And each one of them could infect dozens of others–family members, friends, coworkers, ad infinitum.

    And Trump’s response to this national disaster, and it is a disaster, is to sau he likes masks? This after months of denial, conspiracy theories, and ridiculing those who wear msks.

    It’s a colossal failure of leadership at the federal and state level. The vireus is spreading, people are dying, over 130,000 by last count.

    What is the national plan to deal with this pandemic? Trump doesn’t have one. All he can do is whine and complain about factual new reports. Fake news! Hoax! I’m the greatestes president ever!

    What a joke. But Trump is the least of our worries. The mounting national debt is.

    https://reason.com/video/the-next-pandemic-will-be-caused-by-the-national-debt-it-will-crater-the-economy/

    How much more debt can we get into before the entire economy collapses?

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  53. 55. The reason that we haven’t already collapsed the world’s economy is because of the blind, unreasoned faith that the world (free and not) has placed in the remnants of the post-1945 Pax Americana. It won’t last. It can’t last. But here we are, sitting on a powderkeg of government malfeasance.

    Gryph (08c844)

  54. There are so many shouty headlines and so many people (I am NOT talking about folks here) who seem invested in the worst possible news on all topics.

    Simon Jester (5856df) — 7/3/2020 @ 1:36 pm

    There’s no better way to sell some ads and clicks. Like Dana, I found this news really compelling and important, but I’m not remotely a medical researcher. I don’t even know how to make my baby thermometer work. It’s good this blog has a lot of professionals commenting, which is probably the best way to read news even if it also leads to a lot of drama.

    Dustin (ec9180)

  55. If you think this will compel more mask-wearing, you would be wrong. President Trump is in South Dakota today for a pre-Fourth of July spectacle, where ardent Trump supporter Gov. Kristi Noem has told the 7,500 expected attendees that they will not be required to wear a mask or practice social distancing

    Not compelling everyone to wear a mask doesn’t say anything about how many people will.

    Before the Tulsa rally there was a lot of pearl-clutching about stupid Trump supporters packing into a stadium. When that didn’t happen the story morphed into low Trump support. I’m guessing that if a lot of people wear masks the story will turn into something else.

    frosty (f27e97)

  56. ……Dr. Vincent Racaniello……
    Who?

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  57. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 7/3/2020 @ 2:02 pm

    How much more debt can we get into before the entire economy collapses?

    42

    frosty (f27e97)

  58. 51. 57. I think they’re right that some strains are more infectious than others. The argument @51 sounds like he’s grasping at straws

    It’s WRONG that is becoming more infectious. It is becoming less infectious.

    Most mutations are in that direction.

    The more infectious strain is the original one that traveled from Wuhan to Italy to New York and from New York spread through most of the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  59. How much more debt can we get into before the entire economy collapses?

    An economy does not collapse from debt.

    It collapsss from not paying debt

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  60. @51 Simon Jester… all of that.

    @61 Sammy, the point is that the current hysteria (including by other infectious disease folks) are largely unfounded.

    Plus we’re getting better therapeutics as we learn this disease.

    While there’s a recent peer-reviewed study that shows hydroxychloriquine has been helpful… we’re seeing dexamthasone (Decardan) being considered quite a bit (to head off the cytokin storm in bad cases).

    whembly (c30c83)

  61. Scientists Say New Strain of Swine Flu Virus Is Spreading to Humans in China
    A new strain of the H1N1 swine flu virus is spreading silently in workers on pig farms in China and should be “urgently” controlled to avoid another pandemic, a team of scientists says in a new study.

    H1N1 is highly transmissible and spread around the world in 2009, killing about 285,000 people and morphing into seasonal flu.

    The newer strain, known as G4 EA H1N1, has been common on China’s pig farms since 2016 and replicates efficiently in human airways, according to the study published on Monday. So far, it has infected some people without causing disease, but health experts fear that could change without warning.

    “G4 viruses have all the essential hallmarks of a candidate pandemic virus,” the study said, adding that controlling the spread in pigs and closely monitoring human populations “should be urgently implemented.”
    ………
    Recent evidence “indicates that G4 EA H1N1 virus is a growing problem in pig farms, and the widespread circulation of G4 viruses in pigs inevitably increases their exposure to humans,” it said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  62. @58-
    The deaths will come later.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  63. 64, Read that article carefully. It doesn’t make anybody sick.

    So far, it has infected some people without causing disease, but health experts fear that could change without warning.

    Sure, sure. NOT! It;s not even transmitted person to person.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  64. Rip Murdock (cbe514) — 7/3/2020 @ 2:45 pm

    The deaths will come later.

    They always do. No one gets off this ride alive. Water is also wet.

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. There’s no better way to sell some ads and clicks. Like Dana, I found this news really compelling and important, but I’m not remotely a medical researcher. I don’t even know how to make my baby thermometer work. It’s good this blog has a lot of professionals commenting, which is probably the best way to read news even if it also leads to a lot of drama.

    And even if there is a worse version, the current/last version was plenty bad. Just wear a mask, it’s not hard, what’s the worst that can happen? You may look silly, but your wearing a freakin’ mask who would know.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  66. They always do. No one gets off this ride alive. Water is also wet.

    That doesn’t mean we all want to get off of the ride on the way up the stairs. Especially if the reason is because some moron decides it’s fun to just push people off the edge.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  67. 63. whembly (c30c83) — 7/3/2020 @ 2:33 pm

    we’re seeing dexamthasone (Decardan) being considered quite a bit (to head off the cytokin storm in bad cases)

    They have t be careful on;y to give it when that’s the problem.

    Otherwise it increases the death rate.

    Now how hard can it be to figure that out?

    It’s like there’s an official bias towards stupidity.

    The cytokine storm is probably essentially the same thing as Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome, that happens in children who never get sick from the virus itself, and in some others sometimes after someone appears to have recovered from the disease.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  68. 42
    frosty (f27e97) — 7/3/2020 @ 2:13 pm

    HA! Thanks, I needed that laugh.

    felipe (023cc9)

  69. Rip,

    Dr Racaniello has been linked here before by Simon Jester. Dr Racaniello has a virus blog and podcast that is informative and addresses many current Covid topics before they are even in the news. If you weren’t being sarcastic, check them out.

    DRJ (aede82)

  70. The podcast has more Covid content.

    DRJ (aede82)

  71. Researchers want Covid to be more contagious because it helps explain what we are seeing, but not all are convinced.

    DRJ (aede82)

  72. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:03 pm

    That doesn’t mean we all want to get off of the ride on the way up the stairs. Especially if the reason is because some moron decides it’s fun to just push people off the edge.

    If this is a big concern for you maybe consider the elevator.

    I really am curious if you apply this same quality of risk assessment to the variety of other ones you routinely encounter.

    frosty (f27e97)

  73. 75.

    I really am curious if you apply this same quality of risk assessment to the variety of other ones you routinely encounter.

    frosty (f27e97) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:18 pm

    SPOILER ALERT: He doesn’t.

    Gryph (08c844)

  74. The US has moved up to 27th place in testing per 1M people, awesome.

    From a developed country deaths perspective, we’re not doing as badly as Sweden with it’s approach, but since we’re being forced into the Swedish model by the ignorant we’re getting worse faster, their failure has flattened at horrid, we said “hold my beer, skål”

    BTW, the same Russian social media folks pushing violence during the protest movement, are still pushing the “mask protest movement”.

    Be a patriot, wear a mask. If you’re not wearing a mask, you’re a commie.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  75. I really am curious if you apply this same quality of risk assessment to the variety of other ones you routinely encounter.

    You mean, avoiding doing stupid things in stupid places with stupid people? Yeah, anyone who has a modicum of common sense always avoids situations that will actively shorten your life.

    My question would be, you don’t?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  76. South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem says the thousands of people who attend the July 3 celebration for Independence Day at Mount Rushmore with President Donald Trump will not be required to practice social distancing despite an increase in coronavirus cases across the country.

    Vandamm the torpedoes, full speed ahead, eh, Captain, sir?!

    “I don’t like the way Teddy Roosevelt is looking at me.” – Roger Thornhill [Cary Grant] ‘North By Northwest’ 1959

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. 78. If I applied the same level of scrutiny to risk in all of my life that you selectively apply to CoViD-19, I’d be afraid to get out of bed in the morning for fear that a meteorite could kill me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  78. BTW, the same Russian social media folks pushing violence during the protest movement, are still pushing the “mask protest movement”.

    Be a patriot, wear a mask. If you’re not wearing a mask, you’re a commie.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:30 pm

    Yep. Strict mask rules at home in Moscow while spreading propaganda to enemies to not wear them. You don’t wear the mask because you’re scared. You wear the mask because it protects others, and the idea of wearing the mask means everyone slows the spread of a lot of diseases, making the crisis a lot easier to manage. It is basically the same as washing your hands after using the bathroom, and people who are proud not to do it are either stupid or bad.

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  79. The issue is really moot. A plebiscite has already been held. 885,000 Americans voted to live in South Dakota. 327,315,000 voted to live anywhere else in America except South Dakota.

    nk (1d9030)

  80. How do you get to (what I thought was the goal of) “herd immunity” without seeing an increase in the number of cases?
    Isn’t what we are seeing now the right side “tail” of the early “flatten the curve” infection graph? The lockdown delayed the speed and breadth of infection from the unwanted “high” curve to the later and lengthened “flatter” curve.
    I thought that was the plan?
    So, why is everyone so surprised, and panicky, to see the number of cases increase?
    Ratios for hospitalizations of the more severely ill, and deaths due to (not “with”) the virus are improving to a level equivalent or better than those of other periodic, routine illnesses.

    ColoComment (7b779b)

  81. Of course. He’s Donald Trump.

    I looked at local coverage and nobody I could see out of hundreds were wearing masks and, of course, social distancing is not an option. But Donald? Oh, he is special, as always. At the same time that he is encouraging this insane behavior, this same local coverage is informing us that anyone having contact with Trump…. must first be tested and cleared.

    noel (4d3313)

  82. There should be a name for his events. Con Con 2020? Has that been taken?

    noel (4d3313)

  83. CBS NEws is caling the plasma therapy “experimental.”

    It s nothing of the sort.

    They are concealing from people the way things really work.

    Many many people are dying because of the FDA

    And artificial antibodies could have been done by now too

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  84. honestly it’s like we’re in a cross between they live and demolition man (the latter written by hawaii 5 0 show runner, peter lenkov btw) the most normal expressions of behavior must be curtailed for some unknown result, to be taken on faith,

    narciso (7404b5)

  85. Oh… wait. Now I am suspicious. I am not sure how many of you are familiar with Crazy Horse mountain which is a few miles from Mount Rushmore. It’s huge. Rushmore could fit on his arm, I believe. Now think about it….. forget Mount Rushmore…. he could change Crazy Horse into…. you getting this…… The Lone Ranger!

    Holy Sh!t.

    noel (4d3313)

  86. I wonder what the mask requirements are for people around Trump? And when the cameras are off?

    noel (b7de76)

  87. Be a patriot, wear a mask. If you’re not wearing a mask, you’re a commie.

    That explains why the protesters were violating every health protocol, and the media and prominent health poobahs didn’t care.

    beer ‘n pretzels (8dac67)

  88. 81. I don’t wear the mask cause I’m not scared. See, I can play that game too. 😀

    Gryph (08c844)

  89. That explains why the protesters were violating every health protocol, and the media and prominent health poobahs didn’t care.

    You mean the protesters who were almost universally masked? Those, or were you talking about the militia members protesting the masks. Be specific.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  90. 92. Colonel, sir, I’m reasonably sure that the protesters who were masked weren’t doing so for the sake of their own health. Masked protesting was a thing long before Americans started scaring themselves sh!tless over a virus.

    Gryph (08c844)

  91. to wear a mask is to disrespect mr. president donald trump, who is to the Presidency what a baby is to a diaper, and ms. governor kristi noem, who is the standard for S2S lumber in sawmills

    i’m fine with that

    nk (1d9030)

  92. I mean the protesters you will cheer lead whether they wear masks or not, whether they social distance or not, or blow off stay at home orders or not. Because you’re all about patriotism, Klink.

    beer ‘n pretzels (8dac67)

  93. https://twitter.com/drdavidsamadi/status/1279044039950639104

    All the KARENs should give it a rest…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  94. You mean the protesters who were almost universally masked?

    Bullschiff

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. 105 University of Washington students in frat houses test positive for coronavirus
    More than 100 students living in fraternity houses near the University of Washington campus have reported testing positive for COVID-19, with hundreds of results pending. ……..
    ………
    ……[M]ore than 800 students have been tested since Monday in response to the Greek system outbreak. The university expects to have an updated case count early next week. The Interfraternity Council has asked fraternity houses to stop holding social events…….
    …….
    Experts say the outbreak, along with cases among student athletes, is a troubling sign of what may be in store if colleges reopen in the fall. University of Washington leadership said this week they hope to reopen in-person, with larger classes held virtually, but that plans could change based on the virus’s spread.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  96. Oh… wait. Now I am suspicious. I am not sure how many of you are familiar with Crazy Horse mountain which is a few miles from Mount Rushmore. It’s huge. Rushmore could fit on his arm, I believe. Now think about it….. forget Mount Rushmore…. he could change Crazy Horse into…. you getting this…… The Lone Ranger!

    Holy Sh!t.

    noel (4d3313) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:53 pm

    LOL

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  97. All of you Democrats – which for some reason, you find difficult to admit – do this angry acting out bit every friggin’ day. Don’t you have anyone or anything else in your lives that makes you happy?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  98. By a strange coincidence, the Greek doctor with the new hydroxychloroquine hooraw has the same last name as the Greek woman suing Trump for sexual harassment. Zervos.

    nk (1d9030)

  99. https://nypost.com/2020/07/02/80-percent-of-nyc-eateries-couldnt-afford-rent-amid-coronavirus/

    While people think forcing society to shut down is saving lives, the results speak for themselves.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. Colonel Haiku,

    being woke and insulting the president are the only things that make some happy.
    https://twitter.com/bbccomedy/status/1010189882503950336

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  101. Bullschiff

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/3/2020 @ 4:43 pm

    Agreed. The spread and the protests are very obviously related, especially where I am.

    All of you Democrats – which for some reason, you find difficult to admit

    Big talking point for Trump and some of the more crazy sell-out Trump sites like Ace is that Trump critics must be democrats and democrats must be the most extreme thing any democrat does, which is how you might think a conservative is in antifa.

    This is hilarious. Benedict Donald is literally worshiping communists all around the world after a lifetime of praising democrats, and these guys pretend to hate democrats?

    Dustin (b62cc4)

  102. Rob… it must be true. They do the same thing day in, day out. One would think it would wear on them mentally and spiritually.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  103. 101… this is not the only source with positive study results. If you can’t admit what has driven this intense focus and need to go negative on every aspect of daily life, you are asleep at the wheel.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. A new large-scale study conducted by the Henry Ford Health System concluded that hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malaria drug touted by Trump as a potentially game-changing treatment for the coronavirus, successfully lowered mortality rates for hospitalized coronavirus patients. The results were published Thursday in the peer-reviewed International Journal of Infectious Diseases.

    The study examined 2,541 patients who had been hospitalized in six hospitals between March 10 and May 2, 2020.

    More than twenty-six percent (26.4%) of patients who did not receive hydroxychloroquine died.

    But among those who received hydroxychloroquine, fewer than half that number — 13% — died.

    More than 90% of the patients received hydroxychloroquine within 48 hours of admission to the hospital. Scientists say giving the drug early during illness may be a key to success.

    The study also determined that there were no adverse effects on the heart, despite previous reports.

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/07/03/trump-vindicated-by-new-peer-reviewed-hydroxychloroquine-study-showing-reduced-covid-19-mortality-n602456

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. Happy 4th of July to all that appreciate America, and a reality check for the unhappy people.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  106. 107. That is Dr. Marcus Zervos. The Greek doctor at Henry Ford Health System.

    nk (1d9030)

  107. “Rob… it must be true. They do the same thing day in, day out. One would think it would wear on them mentally and spiritually.”

    It’s always projection. Or did you forget about 8 years of Obama hate? Heck, Trump was a birther for longer than he’s been president.

    Davethulhu (f33f98)

  108. Well, the administration has decided that we can’t respond like Japan, or Canada, or Spain, or France, or…

    Trump administration officials say the White House plans to adopt a new message on the novel coronavirus pandemic in the coming weeks, with the overall tone summing up as “we need to live with it,” according to a report by NBC News.

    Surrender monkeys.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  109. We need to live with it': White House readies new message for the nation on coronavirus

    After several months of mixed messages on the coronavirus pandemic, the White House is settling on a new one: Learn to live with it.
    ……..
    At the crux of the message, officials said, is a recognition by the White House that the virus is not going away any time soon — and will be around through the November election.

    As a result, President Donald Trump’s top advisers plan to argue, the country must figure out how to press forward despite it. ………
    For nearly six months the administration offered a series of predictions and pronouncements that never came to fruition.
    ……
    The message then morphed to the idea that the virus would be swiftly crushed by a robust federal response. “WE WILL WIN THIS WAR,” Trump tweeted in March.
    ……..
    Eager to move forward and reopen the economy amid a recession and a looming presidential election, the White House is now pushing acceptance.
    ……..
    On Thursday, the president claimed that when Pence held a recent call with governors and asked the state executives what they might need, none of them requested federal assistance.

    “Not one governor needed anything. They don’t need anything. They have all the medical equipment they can have. Thank you, U.S. government,” Trump said.

    But as Pence has crisscrossed the country this week, visiting places with virus outbreaks such as Dallas, Phoenix and Tampa, he has been quick to note several requests from the governors of those states in real time……..
    ……….
    The word the administration is looking for is ‘surrender’.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  110. It’s gaslighting. They think that if they tell us we’re bad people often enough, we’ll believe it. But they are the only Ingrid Bergmans here, and their Charles Boyer is on his way to Mt. Rushmore.

    nk (1d9030)

  111. At least 8 Secret Service agents stuck in Phoenix with coronavirus after Pence trip
    At least eight Secret Service agents are currently holed up in a hotel in Phoenix, some suffering the flu-like coronavirus symptoms after coming down with the disease while preparing for a visit by Vice President Mike Pence, two people familiar with the matter say.
    …….
    As Trump and Pence resume regular travel schedules after months of pandemic-induced lockdown, the risks posed to the large contingent of US Secret Service personnel who accompany them have become obvious as roughly two dozen agents — if not more — have tested positive for the virus, sources familiar with the situation said.
    ……,.
    ……[O]ne agency source said “We signed up to take a bullet for him, we did not sign up to get sick for him for no good reason.”

    In addition to the agents who have become ill, many more have been required to quarantine after coming into contact with others who tested positive…….
    ……..
    After testing positive, the agents quarantined at a hotel in Phoenix, people familiar with the matter said. Some are symptomatic and are being attended to by a doctor, though haven’t yet required hospitalization, the sources said.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  112. Anonymous agency source? I bet.

    “I didn’t sign up for this when I signed up for this!”

    felipe (023cc9)

  113. my van has had a mask on for months, no china flu

    mg (8cbc69)

  114. Hey, mg, did you know that in a relay race you have to pass the baton in the exchange zone? It calls for perfect pacing from both runners.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. Surrender monkeys.

    It seems like political suicide.

    “Why don’t France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Spain, Canada, South Korea, etc ‘have to live with it’, Mr. President?”

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. 121. As opposed to the economic suicide we’ve been engaging in for the last three months?

    Gryph (08c844)

  117. @122-
    Apparently all those countries survived their shutdowns by paying businesses directly to retain workers rather than causing layoffs and unemployment. Should have done that, but it would have required out of the box thinking.

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  118. As opposed to the economic suicide we’ve been engaging in for the last three months?

    But those other countries are now opening their economies germ-free, while we have more than 10x the per-capita case rate of the EU, and 100x the per-capita case rate of South Korea and Japan.

    Looks like they’re the ones who made the smart economic play, while our troubles are only beginning.

    Dave (1bb933)

  119. Donnie’s future daughter in law also tests positive for the ‘Rona.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  120. Hey, the Russian bot is back.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  121. Man who went to party warned people not to be an ‘idiot like me’ a day before dying of covid-19
    Sharing his regret on Facebook, Thomas Macias was focused on his loved ones.

    …….He’d gone out to a party where no one wore masks, his niece Danielle Lopez said, only to learn afterward that someone knowingly attended with the novel coronavirus, apparently reasoning — erroneously — that without symptoms, it couldn’t do anyone harm.

    But 51-year-old Macias was also at risk, made extra vulnerable by his diabetes and weight, Lopez said. The morning after that June 20 Facebook post, he called his mother saying he couldn’t breathe. She told him to rush to the hospital.

    By 9 p.m., family say, he had died.
    ………
    Family say Macias was diligent for months about minimizing his trips outside the home, knowing his health conditions made him vulnerable.
    ………
    The coronavirus situation in Riverside (County, where Macisa lived) however, was worsening that month. On June 17, the Desert Sun reported, the county went on a state watch list after cases increased and hospitalizations rose 19 percent in three days. Riverside is among the 19 counties, covering more than 70 percent of California’s population, that Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) announced this week would have to shut a large swath of businesses back down, as the state shatters its records for new known coronavirus cases reported each day.
    …….
    It’s not clear how many people were at the party Macias attended in Lake Elsinore, where he lived about an hour’s drive southeast of Los Angeles. Lopez said her family heard from Macias that a friend who also attended later reached out to say everyone should get tested — because that person went despite having a coronavirus diagnosis

    At the very least, Lopez said, the friend should have worn a mask……
    ……
    “I really honestly don’t understand why people find it so difficult,” Lopez said.
    ……..
    Asked to confirm Macias’s cause of death, an official at the Riverside County Office of Vital Records told The Post that a 51-year-old man with his name recently died in the area due to covid-19.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  122. Is South Dakota on the Julian calendar or the Mayan? Because today is July 3, not July 4.

    nk (1d9030)

  123. If I want to peruse Prof. Reynolds, the show-out Jewish guy who loves a good drink and and the crazy Portuguese lady, I’ll just go directly there instead, geez.

    urbanleftbehind (f30cc7)

  124. Kimberly Guilfoyle, Top Fund-Raising Official for Trump Campaign, Tests Positive
    Kimberly Guilfoyle, the girlfriend of President Trump’s eldest son and a top fund-raising official for the Trump re-election campaign, tested positive for the coronavirus on Friday before a Fourth of July event at Mount Rushmore, a person familiar with her condition said.
    …….
    Ms. Guilfoyle is the third person in possible proximity to Mr. Trump known to have contracted the virus. A personal valet who served Mr. Trump his food and the press secretary for Vice President Mike Pence tested positive for the virus in May.Ms. Guilfoyle was not experiencing symptoms, the person familiar with her condition said. ……
    ……

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  125. @82. 885,000 Americans voted to live in South Dakota.

    Brooklyn, New York City’s most populous borough, has an estimated 2,648,403 residents in 2020.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. @131. Herman Cain, too; 9,9,9, is now 19, 19, 19.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. Gryph @122-
    European Workers Draw Paychecks. American Workers Scrounge for Food.
    …….
    The pandemic has ravaged Europeans and Americans alike, but the economic pain has played out in starkly different fashion. The United States has relied on a significant expansion of unemployment insurance, cushioning the blow for tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs, with the assumption that they will be swiftly rehired once normality returns. European countries — among them Denmark, Ireland, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Spain and Austria — have prevented joblessness by effectively nationalizing payrolls, heavily subsidizing wages and enabling paychecks to continue uninterrupted.

    As cases increase at an alarming rate in much of the United States, the reliance on an overwhelmed unemployment system — the next infusion of money perpetually subject to the whims of Washington — leaves Americans uniquely exposed to a deepening crisis of joblessness. Europe appears poised to spring back from the catastrophe faster, whenever commerce resumes, because its companies need not rehire workers.
    ………
    …..[C]onversations with recipients of government relief in Europe and the United States reveal one substantial difference: In many European countries, wage subsidies have enabled paychecks to continue without a hitch, sparing people the anxiety of managing bills while awaiting relief. For Americans, hellish tangles with bureaucracy have become legion as tens of millions of people have deluged the unemployment system, crashing websites, tying up phone systems and standing in parking lots for hours outside benefits offices.
    …….
    Jobless data reveals how the pandemic has assailed American workers with exceptional force. The unemployment rate in the United States has soared nearly eight percentage points since February — it registered 11.1 percent in June — while France, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands have all limited increases in the jobless rate to less than one percentage point.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  128. Old news, DC…I thought Icy was on vacation and you were the bearer of…news

    urbanleftbehind (1cf51a)

  129. Trump had to make sure the coronavirus bailout money went to Dow Jones Index companies, Rip. And to his friends and contributors, of course.

    nk (1d9030)

  130. ColoComment (7b779b) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:48 pm

    I thought that was the plan?

    That was the plan. But new opportunities have presented themselves. The plan has been altered. Pray it isn’t altered further.

    frosty (f27e97)


  131. I thought that was the plan?

    That was the plan.

    Whose plan?

    nk (1d9030)

  132. Well, why don’t you answer, Trumpadoodles? Whose plan was it?

    nk (1d9030)

  133. Trump Delivers Divisive Culture War Message at Mount Rushmore
    ……..President Trump on Friday delivered a dark and divisive speech that cast his struggling effort to win a second term as a battle against a “new far-left fascism” seeking to wipe out the nation’s values and history.

    With the coronavirus pandemic raging and his campaign faltering in the polls, his appearance amounted to a fiery reboot of his re-election effort, using the holiday and an official presidential address to mount a full-on culture war against a straw-man version of the left that he portrayed as inciting mayhem and moving the country toward totalitarianism.

    “Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values and indoctrinate our children,” Mr. Tump said, addressing a packed crowd of sign-waving supporters, few of whom wore masks. “Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities.”

    Mr. Trump barely mentioned the pandemic….
    ……..
    Mr. Trump said the left wanted to “unleash a wave of violent crime” in cities across the country. He said they “think the American people are weak and soft and submissive.”
    ……..
    …….. [T]he president’s attempt to drive deeper into the culture wars around a national holiday, during an intensifying health crisis that will not yield to his tactics, risked coming across as out of sync with the concerned mood of the country at a moment when his re-election campaign is struggling and unfocused.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (cbe514)

  134. Trump Delivers Divisive Culture War Message at Mount Rushmore

    Look on the bright side: it’s fresh material for Sarah Cooper and the Lincoln Project…

    Dave (1bb933)

  135. Culture War? His bonespurs will exempt him again.

    nk (1d9030)

  136. If there suddenly was a cure for DontCallItWuhanFlu, saving hundreds of thousands of lives, but it meant Trump would get re-elected, the dilemma would be too much for some here.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  137. @143 No it wouldn’t, anyone here would choose instantly to save the lives. You might want to tone down the tribalism.

    Nic (896fdf)

  138. How you develop immunity through asymptomatic exposure of the healthiest and or drug protocols like hcq cocktail.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  139. Nic, nice to know you take issue with the health professional poobahs.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jyfn4Wd2i6bRi12ePghMHtX3ys1b7K1A/view

    I note that your disdain for tribalism seems to be as selective as their focus on the virus threat.

    beer ‘n pretzels (ddfa85)

  140. “If there suddenly was a cure for DontCallItWuhanFlu, saving hundreds of thousands of lives, but it meant Trump would get re-elected, the dilemma would be too much for some here.”

    Who needs a cure? It’s less deadly than the common cold and will be disappearing any minute now.

    Davethulhu (f33f98)

  141. @146 yeah, nice attempt to “misunderstand” what I said. And nice try on a “I’m rubber you’re glue” defense. I’ve been pretty consistent on not approving of tribalism.

    Nic (896fdf)

  142. Another Trump event, another crowd size blunder.

    South Dakota Gov. Kristi L. Noem said the roughly 3,700 people who attended the event did not need to wear masks or social distance.

    There’s a million people who want to come, there’ll be 20k (6k) in the arena and 40k(Ok) outside, there’s gonna be 7,500 (3,700) at Mt. Rushmore. I guess that’s an improvement, from 10% to 50%.

    Trump will tweeter that it was both 50k people and that the Native American’s kept all the people away via threat of scalping. To, you know, both lie and be racist.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  143. Who needs a cure? It’s less deadly than the common cold and will be disappearing any minute now.

    I heard we only had 15 cases and it was going to be close to zero in a few days.

    Dave (1bb933)

  144. Nic, nice to know you take issue with the health professional poobahs.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jyfn4Wd2i6bRi12ePghMHtX3ys1b7K1A/view

    I note that your disdain for tribalism seems to be as selective as their focus on the virus threat.

    OMG a Google Doc!!! BTW, Some of these “medical professionals” are in High School, undergraduates, and, you know, random dumdums. Some of them, I assume, are good people, though there’s no evidence of that. It’s also been going around for 2 months. Oddly, first published by Sputnik. Weeerrrd?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  145. I danced with a gal who looks like a fence post.
    I asked her what she loves the most.
    I danced with a gal that looks like a fence post.
    She loves Donald Trump the most.

    Trumpalo gals, won’t you come out tonight?
    Come out tonight! Come out tonight!
    Trumpalo gals, won’t you come out tonight?
    And we’ll dance by the light of the Moon.

    nk (1d9030)

  146. just make sure to wear protection mr nk

    you never know where those trump girls have been

    Dave (1bb933)

  147. Trumpalo gal, Trumpalo gal, where you been?
    “In Trump’s bunker and gone again.”
    Trumpalo gal, Trumpalo gal, was it okay?
    “Below average, I would say.”

    Trumpalo gals, won’t you come out tonight?
    Come out tonight! Come out tonight!
    Trumpalo gals, won’t you come out tonight?
    And we’ll dance by the light of the Moon.

    nk (1d9030)

  148. They think that if they tell us we’re bad people often enough, we’ll believe it.

    “bad people”? “troubled people” is much more accurate.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. Yup, that’s what Charles wanted Ingrid to think, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  150. so lincoln, mr heg, the commander of the ‘glory’ unit, they are all bad people, because the reavers want to tear their statues down, also baden powell, which has a very crunchy irony,

    narciso (7404b5)

  151. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”

    —- Joe Biden, Democrat candidate for POTUS

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  152. Trumpalo gal, did you spank him?
    “With a Forbes, I really smacked him.”
    Trumpalo gal, did he wail?
    “I did when I broke a nail.”

    Trumpalo gals, come out tonight!
    Come out tonight! Come out tonight!
    Trumpalo gals, come out tonight,
    And we’ll dance by the light of the Moon.

    nk (1d9030)

  153. No worries, Mr. Dave. They only love Mr. President Donald Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  154. all the more reason to do social distancing all up in it

    Dave (1bb933)

  155. Deaths in FL have been fairly steady over Apr, May, and Jun.

    Deaths are a lagging indicator, frosty, and higher numbers of hospitalizations are leading indicator. The severity may not be as great as NY and NJ, but it’s a problem, and it’s a problem because Trump continues to not take this virus seriously, and therefore his bent-to-the-knee supplicants are doing the same.

    Paul Montagu (68d887)

  156. 164. Then how do you account for me, Paulie? I’m not a “Trump Supplicant” and I’m not taking this virus seriously.

    Gryph (08c844)

  157. Paul Montagu (68d887) — 7/4/2020 @ 8:19 am

    Deaths are a lagging indicator

    How much of a lag? Some of these states have been open for 8 weeks.

    higher numbers of hospitalizations are leading indicator … it’s a problem

    Of course, it’s a problem but how big a problem and how does it compare to other problems. We know some people are going to get sick, some will need critical care, and some will die. There’s no option that makes that zero. I’ve been adamantly against the flu analogy but we’ve kept the death numbers in the range of 2x a bad flu season. It’s not an armageddon level pandemic.

    frosty (f27e97)

  158. 166. It may or may not be the case, but it does make sense to point out that it looks like someone is pushing an agenda.

    Gryph (08c844)

  159. Gryph, you are your own unique snowflake.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  160. 164. Then how do you account for me, Paulie? I’m not a “Trump Supplicant” and I’m not taking this virus seriously.

    A special brand of fatalism to be found only in South Dakota? With 150 ICBM silos, South Dakota has been the top-top priority target of a preemptive nuclear strike from Russia for the last seventy years or so. Coronavirus? What’s that in comparison?

    nk (1d9030)

  161. 169. I dunno if such fatalism is unique to South Dakota or even if it’s found here generally, but that’s not my outlook on life. Funny isn’t it, that the most “fatalistic” of the 50 states is the last one to have never locked down?

    168. I’m not unique. But I am in a minority and it is kind of a lonely place to be.

    Gryph (08c844)

  162. Then how do you account for me, Paulie?

    Like you said, Grpyh, you’re in a rural area and I note that, to you, it’s more about your emotions than the science.

    Paul Montagu (68d887)

  163. Of course, it’s a problem but how big a problem and how does it compare to other problems.

    There are at least 132,000 dead Americans from the virus, frosty. It’s our 3rd largest killer after heart disease and cancer. So yeah, it’s a big enough problem.
    As I see it, it’s attitudes like yours that have brought the death toll to the level that it is, starting right at the top with Trump.

    Paul Montagu (68d887)

  164. 88. noel (4d3313) — 7/3/2020 @ 3:53 pm

    I am not sure how many of you are familiar with Crazy Horse mountain which is a few miles from Mount Rushmore. It’s huge. Rushmore could fit on his arm, I believe.

    I just read about it the other day. Actually this was printed after you left that meessage. It was in esterday’s (Saturday;s) New York Times, page A20.

    I read that it is not finished.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/fourth-of-july.html

    As baffling as it is to find statues of traitors, slaveholders and killers of Union soldiers ensconced in many a prominent square, consider the historical discordance of Custer County, S.D….Just under 20 miles from Custer is Mount Rushmore, which President Trump plans to visit this Fourth of July weekend. A mere seven miles from Custer is the Native American Rushmore — a still unfinished carving of the Oglala Sioux leader Crazy Horse, 641 feet long and 563 feet high.

    Italics and boldface mine.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  165. ColoComment @83.

    The lockdown delayed the speed and breadth of infection from the unwanted “high” curve to the later and lengthened “flatter” curve.

    I thought that was the plan?

    There is no plan.

    Nobody is even thinking as to how this ends.

    Except maybe that one day, like a miracle, it’ll vanish. Some say with a vaccine. Trump says, or said, even without a vaccine.

    It did vanish in New Zealand.

    So, why is everyone so surprised, and panicky, to see the number of cases increase?
    Ratios for hospitalizations of the more severely ill, and deaths due to (not “with”) the virus are improving to a level equivalent or better than those of other periodic, routine illnesses.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  166. because we don’t differentiate between antibody and virus, severity, hospitalization rates, or the declining age of the cohort, leading away from the most vulnerable,

    narciso (7404b5)

  167. So, why is everyone so surprised, and panicky, to see the number of cases increase?

    If you want this to vanish, you’re going in the wrong direction. And because they all want to limit the number of cases, more cases means more of a shutdown of activity.

    And it does have a real, albeit small, fatality rate.

    Ratios for hospitalizations of the more severely ill, and deaths due to (not “with”) the virus are improving to a level equivalent or better than those of other periodic, routine illnesses.

    It’s still not like the flue – and, by the way, the number of deaths from flu has been overestimated for years.

    Trump said it is totally harmless in 99% of cases. Dr Scott Gottlieb on CBS’s Face the Nation estimated:

    o That 60% of the people who test positive become symptomatic

    o That 10% to 1% develop pneumonia

    o That 2% to 5% (depending on age) get admitted to a hospital.

    Maybe the death rate is at 1% or lower. Doctors have gotten better at treating it (and will get much much, better when the artificial antibodies get used.)

    Had Trump said it is totally harmless to 80% of the people who get infected, or maybe even 90%, he’d have been on solid ground. But he has to say 99%. Or confuse survivable, and maybe even survivable without permanent harm, with “totally harmless.”

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  168. * o That 10% to 15% develop pneumonia. (and only one fifth of these get hospitalized)

    I can’t seem to avoid some typing errors.

    175.

    because we don’t differentiate between antibody and virus, severity, hospitalization rates, or the declining age of the cohort, leading away from the most vulnerable,

    What’s the question here?

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  169. the real data, sammy, the top number is just the number of tests,

    narciso (7404b5)

  170. We are seeing more Covid infections in Florida, Texas, and probably elsewhere. We should know in three months if this will adversely impact the hospitals and/or the fatality rate. I hope not but that is certainly possible. But we have to work, too, and to me this is part of getting herd immunity. Imo we need to wear masks, distance, avoid socializing, but we work.

    DRJ (aede82)

  171. 179. DRJ (aede82) — 7/6/2020 @ 10:04 am

    We are seeing more Covid infections in Florida, Texas, and probably elsewhere. We should know in three months if this will adversely impact the hospitals and/or the fatality rate.

    Three months??

    Three weeks is more like it!

    It seems to require some special conditions to really spread, but, once you have it, the number of cases can go grow exponentially. This may have something to do with lighting conditions, room temperature, the exact manner of air circulation and the length of time people stay near each other.

    And if the same people repeatedly assemble in the same place, you have a Petri dish.

    But we have to work, too, and to me this is part of getting herd immunity.

    We started out with substantial herd immunity. That’s another thing the experts were wrong about.

    https://reason.com/2020/07/01/covid-19-herd-immunity-is-much-closer-than-antibody-tests-suggest-say-2-new-studies

    The prevalence of immunity to the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 may be much higher than previous research suggests according to an intriguing new study by researchers associated with Karolinska Institute in Sweden. In addition, a new German study by researchers associated with the University Hospital Tübingen in Germany reports that people who have been previously infected with versions of the coronavirus that cause the common cold also have some immunity to the COVID-19 virus.

    Of course, of course!

    In a second study, German researchers analyzed blood samples of 365 people, of which 180 had had COVID-19 and 185 had not. When they exposed the blood samples to the COVID-19 coronavirus, they found, as expected, that blood from those who had had the illness produced a substantial immune response. More significantly, they also found that 81 percent of the subjects who had never had COVID-19 also produced a T-cell immune reaction, reports The Science Times. If the German study’s results prove out, that would suggest that earlier common cold coronavirus infections may provide about eight in 10 people some degree of immune protection from the COVID-19 virus.

    We don;t need to hit a home run. We started out with a runner on third base.

    Of course, of course.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  172. DRJ, I don’t believe we’ll have herd immunity until there’s a working vaccine. In the meantime, we should act according to where we’re at.
    In Snohomish County, that means having churches, restaurants, bars and the like at 25% capacity, and wearing masks in indoor public spaces (outdoors as well if social distancing can’t be had). In other locales, different deal, but we should carry on with our business as much as we can.

    Paul Montagu (e2c658)

  173. We started out with approximately 80% immunity, but not so strong immunity that the virus couldn’t be passed on.

    https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26278/20200630/8-out-10-people-infected-covid-19-protected-episodes-colds.htm

    The researchers speculate that this immune reaction may have been caused by previous illnesses involving common cold coronaviruses such as OC43, 229E, NL63, and HKU1. As a result, their immune systems have cross-reacted to the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

    You know something?

    Scientists had to be really dumb not to realize this right from the start, given the facts they knew.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)

  174. You remember how much they talked about having ventilators. I said months ago that ventilators weren’t good (based on an article I read in the New York Post in early April.)

    They may be slowly coming around in mainstream sources.

    That ventilators aren’t so good is buried in the middle of a front page article that ran in the New York Times on Sunday (the URL is from the day before)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/us/coronavirus-houston-new-york.html

    Houston’s hospitals have some advantages compared with New York’s in the spring. Doctors know more now about how to manage the sickest patients and are more often able to avoid breathing tubes, ventilators and critical care….At Methodist’s flagship hospital in central Houston, Rosa V. Hernandez, 72, a patient in the intensive care unit, has pneumonia so severe that if she had fallen sick several months ago, she would probably have been put on a ventilator and made unconscious.

    But doctors, based on the experiences of physicians in New York and elsewhere, are avoiding ventilators when possible and are maintaining Ms. Hernandez on a high flow of oxygen through a nasal tube. She is on the maximum setting, but can talk to the clinical team and exchange text messages with her daughter, who is also a Methodist inpatient with the coronavirus.

    Sammy Finkelman (70b0bc)


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