Patterico's Pontifications

6/26/2020

Joe Biden: If President, I Would Mandate That People Wear A Mask In Public

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:39 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Clearly, using executive powers is all the rage these days. From an interview with CBS Pittsburgh today:

“I would go back to making sure that everybody had masks, that you had PPE lined up, making sure we stockpile all the things that we need and we don’t have now. The one thing we do know, these masks make a gigantic difference. I would insist that everybody in public be wearing that mask. Anyone to reopen, it would have to make sure that they walked into a business that had masks.”

Rice: Couldn’t you use your federal leverage to mandate that?

Biden: Yes.

Rice: Would you?

Biden: Yes, I would from an executive standpoint, yes I would.

Rice: So you would, in effect, mandate the wearing of masks?

Biden: I would do everything possible to make it required the people had to wear masks in public.”

Biden added that he can’t see holding indoor campaign rallies during the pandemic (like Trump has):

“Number one, can I imagine being in a situation where we’re able to do that? If the virus were under control and moved on and we had talked about a vaccine and we had ways in which to make sure that this was not being transmitted, then yes. But I don’t see that happening.

On the Republican side of the aisle, we know that Trump refuses to wear a mask, but now a few Republicans are becoming a tiny bit more pointed about urging him to wear one. Okay, mostly in an indirect, squishy sort of way that leaves them plenty of wiggle room lest he point the finger at them:

‘I’d prefer he do it. He’s not going to. You know he’s not going to do it,’ said Florida Republican Senator Marco Rubio. ‘I’m not excusing it obviously. I prefer him wear one because people follow an example.’

Rubio said masks should be worn out of ‘respect for other people’ so no one is inadvertently infected. But, he acknowledged, ‘the president obviously lives in a bubble. It’s a very different situation.’

Rubio’s fellow Republican senator from Florida, Rick Scott, also encouraged mask wearing.

‘We haven’t beat it. We’ve got to wear masks. We’ve got to social distance. You got to get more information out,’ he said, adding: ‘I hope everyone takes it seriously because we haven’t beat this.’

And Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, at a press conference in his home state of Kentucky, held up a face mask and told people: ‘Until we find a vaccine, these are really important. This is not as complicated as a ventilator, and this is a way to indicate that you want to protect others.’

He did not mention President Trump by name but did say: ‘I see various events on TV in which people are clearly not wearing masks, not taking this seriously, and not doing others a favor.’

‘We need to get past that in order to not only protect ourselves but our friends and colleagues and others until we get to a vaccine,’ he added.

And there was this:

I’m always curious about what sort of teeth these mandates have. Here is a list of regions requiring residents to wear masks when out in public: California, Connecticut, Deleware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island. Of these locations, only Hawaii lists possible penalties for not wearing a mask: Anyone who violates those rules could face a fine of up to $5,000, or up to a year in prison if found guilty, according to Hawaii Gov. David Ige’s order. Several states have also allowed businesses to deny entry to those not adhering to their state’s rules.

Anyway, here are some residents from Palm Beach County, Florida protesting an upcoming vote to mandate that masks be worn:

–Dana

137 Responses to “Joe Biden: If President, I Would Mandate That People Wear A Mask In Public”

  1. I don’t like the idea of mask-wearing being mandated by any president. A way to stave off that possibility (if Biden is elected), is to voluntarily wear a mask when in an indoor public location/business (and maintaining social distancing). That would not only help limit transmission of the disease (thus making the numbers go down), but would also make it unnecessary for a (potential) president to resort to mandating that everyone wear a mask and face possible penalties for non-compliance.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. Liz Cheney’s jab at the Orange is interesting.

    As the magnitude of his looming electoral wipeout becomes more and more clear (Biden is now up in Texas and Florida…), savvy GOP politicians with some vestige of integrity will hopefully start to disassociate themselves.

    Last night Hannity asked him about his goals for a second term, and he couldn’t name a single one.

    Also, the EU just banned American travelers because of Trump’s failure to control the virus.

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. It will save lives. What are lives worth?

    asset (523169)

  4. What do you call a proven plagiarist; the thievery of other people’s work product, who mandates an act of common sense to score political points?

    A plagiarist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  5. #1 – Dana, I hear you. I feel the same way: voluntarily taking precautions and keeping the numbers down ourselves would be so much better. If we’re at the point where the top leader has to mandate wearing masks and staying inside, we’re way past where we want to be from a health standpoint.

    I am no political mastermind, but I cannot for the life of me understand the politics of positioning yourself *against* taking precautions against the virus. Where in the world is the upside supposed to be?

    TR (9bed35)

  6. I don’t like the idea of mask-wearing being mandated by any president.

    It would go a long way to making mandates unnecessary if the freaking president would just stop actively encouraging people to do the things that spread the virus and kill people.

    A president who was a leader instead of a sociopath could make people feel good about voluntarily doing their part – such a small thing! – to protect their families, their neighbors and the economy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  7. Also, the EU just banned American travelers because of Trump’s failure to control the virus.

    I guess Trump failed to be the dictator everyone warned he was.

    The US is behind six European countries in cases per million, so good luck with that EU. One of those is Belgium, where the EU gets together to do smart things.

    beer ‘n pretzels (fbad48)

  8. Dick Cheney says WEAR A MASK. #realmenwearmasks pic.twitter.com/iBfVoa7ypL — Liz Cheney (@Liz_Cheney) June 26, 2020

    Is she kidding?

    “Daddy” has worn a mask for years, sweetie…

    “I am your father.” – Darth Vader [James Earl Jones] ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ 1980

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. Leave it to State Police; quill a few tickets: enforce it for the time necessary like seat belt laws.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. Here in Kentucky, it is really dependant on where you’re at, and there’s a pretty drastic age and income demo difference. Youngs are mostly unmasked, olds pretty likely, I’m defining that as much younger or much older, 50 is middle age right? Men are much less likely than women. Walmart less likely than Costco, Target in the middle. Dollar store is universal, not a single person. Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods are 100% masked. Foreign cars more likely (and Toyotas), trucks less likely. Among men, beards less likely, clean shaven more likely. The toothless hillbilly meth heads, very unlikely.

    My local gun store was 100% unmasked, both the inside and outside ranges, except for me and the employees. They also had zero guns for sale, none, so is it a gun store?

    I can’t really comment on race, ex-urban Kentucky isn’t where you go to find a lot of diversity, but both my Indian neighbors are masked up when I filled up at one of their gas stations.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  11. [a] I don’t see how the feds have the power to mandate mask wearing outside of federal property and the district.

    [b] I support states making it an infraction to not wear a mask in public and enforcing it with fines

    [c] Public officials at all levels should be wearing masks in public in order to send the signal that this is the appropriate and expected behavior, and Trump’s refusal to do so is galling

    [d] I do not understand the rhetorical position of those who insist that mask wearing is an unreasonable ask.

    aphrael (7962af)

  12. When asked today about about not following the state and local leaders on wearing masks during campaign events, having just said follow the directions of the state and local leaders, Pence said:

    The freedom of speech, the right to peaceably assemble is enshrined in the Constitution of the United States.

    OK, and can you not speak or stand with a mask on? What does one have to do with the other? His whole spiel today was a disgrace to truth and logic. Orange man bad, beige man bad too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  13. U.S. sets another single-day record for new coronavirus cases, surpassing 40,000 for first time
    The United States has set a record for new covid-19 cases for the third time in three days, passing the 40,000 mark for the first time, according to tracking by The Washington Post. Eleven states set their own records for the average number of new cases reported over the past seven days: Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Utah.

    Five states set new single-day highs, led by Florida with 8,942 cases, more than 60 percent higher than its previous high set on Wednesday. Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Utah also set new single-day records.
    ……..
    Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order that revives restrictions on bars, restaurants and certain types of outdoor recreation, one day after suggesting he would not.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  14. The US is behind six European countries in cases per million, so good luck with that EU. One of those is Belgium, where the EU gets together to do smart things.

    Total cases (since the start of the pandemic) are irrelevant.

    Right now, Belgium has 8.12 new cases per million per day.

    For the European Union as a whole, it’s 9.16 new cases per million per day.

    The US has 99.81 new cases per million per day.

    (Quoted figures are seven-day rolling averages)

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. If a president doesn’t have the power to isolate or quarantine, I don’t how he can force people to wear masks. Biden is full of it.
    BTW, Jay Inslee made the smart move in requiring folks to wear masks in indoor public spaces, effective today. Outdoors, too, if people cannot socially distance. Puget Sound isn’t doing so bad, but there’s an outbreak in Yakima and Spokane, both of which are solid Trump country.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  16. ‘The U.S. has hamstrung itself': How America became the new Italy on coronavirus
    ……
    ……Italy announced just 264 new Covid-19 cases on Saturday — the same day that the United States reported nearly 32,000. The European nation opened its restaurants and stores a month ago, albeit under new, national safety measures, even as U.S. states wrestled with inconsistent, hasty reopening efforts that have been blamed for new virus spikes. And Italy’s outbreak has dramatically ebbed from its mid-March peak, while America’s new per capita cases remain on par with Italy’s worst day — and show signs of rising further, with record hospitalizations in states like Arizona, Florida and Texas last week.
    …..
    Public health experts cited multiple factors for why the fortunes of the United States have differed from Western Europe — starting with the intense politicization that worked against a disciplined response, and the federal government’s decision to let individual states take the lead in reopening. The decisions of some states to end their lockdowns as early as possible — at levels of infection considerably higher than those that triggered reopening in Western Europe — appear to have consigned the United States to a far longer battle with the virus.
    ……
    Even basic protections have been politicized in the United States. Trump has eschewed a mask in public and has sometimes mocked others for wearing face coverings — despite requirements that people wear masks in certain states and ample science that they work to prevent the virus’ spread.

    The president also swiped at mask-wearers in a Wall Street Journal interview last Wednesday, suggesting that some Americans are wearing coverings to signal their disapproval with him. He has repeatedly voiced his hesitation about the widespread coronavirus testing urged by public health experts, including controversial remarks at his rally on Saturday.
    …..

    “I think there are going to be states in our country that can replicate Italy,” said Ashish Jha, head of Harvard’s Global Health Institute, noting that New York has made its own dramatic strides in containing the virus.
    ………
    Italy is not alone in driving coronavirus down to manageable levels. Its Western European neighbors Spain and France grappled with damaging outbreaks that killed tens of thousands and prompted lockdowns, only to drive daily new cases below 500. Meanwhile, Germany was able to fend off the virus with relatively low mortality, which some credit to the nation’s robust test-and-trace strategy. The collective recovery of the European nations — punctuated by Italy’s apparent turnaround — stands in stark contrast to the muddle facing many parts of America, where the death toll has now topped 120,000.
    …..
    But the devastation hit [Italy] in a way that prompted broad acceptance of lockdown measures. Political leaders largely embraced the need for personal protection and have even policed each other. Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte regularly wears a mask in public — and when he attempted to remove it to speak to his parliament in April, he was heckled by fellow lawmakers.

    When far-right populist leader Matteo Salvini tried to take a page from the Trump playbook, tweeting accusations that the virus came from a Chinese lab and occupying the parliament in protest of lockdowns, the move backfired. His party, the League, is still the most popular party in Italy’s polls, backed by about 25 percent of voters, but support has dropped since February and its lead over the center-left Democratic party has narrowed considerably.

    “One issue that was amazing about all this: Italians took the quarantine seriously, they collaborated with the central orders and were able to follow the guidelines” despite widespread economic suffering, said Raffaella Sadun, a Harvard Business School professor who advised Italy’s prime minister on the crisis. “This may be the primary point of difference with what we are seeing in the U.S.”
    ……
    When US politics are compared unfavorably to the Italians, we are in trouble.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  17. It would go a long way to making mandates unnecessary if the freaking president would just stop actively encouraging people to do the things that spread the virus and kill people.

    A president who was a leader instead of a sociopath could make people feel good about voluntarily doing their part – such a small thing! – to protect their families, their neighbors and the economy.

    Dave (1bb933) — 6/26/2020 @ 3:06 pm

    Pot = kettle. Tell Biden to grow the heck up and tell the leftists rioting and violently destroying property and people to stop and act like citizens instead of savages.

    NJRob (ac5ba0)

  18. If a president doesn’t have the power to isolate or quarantine, I don’t how he can force people to wear masks. Biden is full of it.
    Actually there is substantial federal quarantine and isolation powers, through the CDC.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  19. The quarantine and isolation powers are found here

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  20. 15, but is it the “regular folks” in Yakima and Spokane, though the Tri-Cities might be more instructive with that particular question.

    urbanleftbehind (394392)

  21. Did you see the deniers in the Florida video? Their problem is, if they have a mask on, how are they going to stuff their 400 lb faces every waking minute?

    nk (1d9030)

  22. @15-
    Virtually all of the listed states with new outbreaks are solid Red states. COVID-19 is going after Trump’s own voters.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  23. If a president doesn’t have the power to isolate or quarantine, I don’t how he can force people to wear masks. Biden is full of it.

    What he said was actually rather measured:

    “I would do everything possible to make it required the people had to wear masks in public.”

    I think that tacitly acknowledges that he can’t enforce a national mask requirement by decree.

    OTOH, the feds can play the usual game of using aid to incentivize state action.

    If Trump loses the election, it will remove the largest single obstacle to a coherent national response.

    Add to that the possibility that if the virus is still raging next January, people may finally cop on to the fact that it isn’t simply going to “go away” without concerted effort by everyone, and that the people flouting common sense prevention measures are screwing over the whole country.

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. This was totally unforeseeable. Nobody could have predicted that a highly contagious virus would spread to other states and cities.

    nk (1d9030)

  25. Who Gets Lifesaving Care? Tennessee Changes Rules After Federal Complaint
    Health officials on Friday announced sweeping changes to guidelines in Tennessee on who would get lifesaving treatments, and who would not, if resources fell dramatically short during a medical crisis like the coronavirus pandemic.
    ……..
    The new plan allocates medical care based on how likely patients are to survive their immediate illness if they receive treatment. The previous plan considered their long-term survival prospects as well. That provision was removed because it could disproportionately penalize those who are older or have disabilities.
    ……….
    The new guidance contains other changes. When patients have underlying speech and movement disorders, doctors may need to modify their survival scoring system because its assessment of brain injury could be inaccurate. And the new rules state that if age or disability may require longer treatment or more resources, patients should not be made a lower priority because of that.

    Tennessee’s plan also no longer categorically excludes certain patients from receiving hospital care, including those with conditions such as multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and spinal muscular atrophy who require ventilators or assistance with common activities.

    Both versions of the guidelines provide for removing ventilators — with or without consent — from patients if they are not improving after a certain period so the machines can go to others. Those who rely on personal ventilators to survive in their normal lives are exempted under the new plan. ………
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  26. Trump Administration Asks Supreme Court to Strike Down Affordable Care Act
    ………
    In an 82-page brief submitted an hour before a midnight deadline, the administration joined Republican officials in Texas and 17 other states in arguing that in 2017, Congress, then controlled by Republicans, had rendered the law unconstitutional when it zeroed out the tax penalty for not buying insurance — the so-called individual mandate.

    The administration’s argument, coming in the thick of an election season — as well as a pandemic that has devastated the economy and left millions of unemployed Americans without health coverage — is sure to reignite Washington’s bitter political debate over health care.

    In his brief, Solicitor General Noel J. Francisco argued that the health law’s two remaining central provisions are now invalid because Congress intended that all three work together.
    ……..
    The court has not said when it will hear oral arguments, but they are most likely to take place in the fall, just as Americans are preparing to go to the polls in November.

    Republicans have long said their goal is to “repeal and replace” the Affordable Care Act but have yet to agree on an alternative. They are bracing for the possibility that the effort to overturn the health law will cost them. Joel White, a Republican strategist, said in a recent interview that he considered it “pretty dumb to be talking about how we need to repeal Obamacare in the middle of a pandemic.”
    ………
    ……….. Ms. Pelosi said in a statement late Thursday night, after the administration’s brief was filed.

    “If President Trump gets his way,” she added, “130 million Americans with pre-existing conditions will lose the A.C.A.’s lifesaving protections and 23 million Americans will lose their health coverage entirely.”
    ………..
    Timing is everything, and the Administration sure picked a bad time.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  27. March 29:

    Cuomo Threatens Lawsuit Over Rhode Island Crackdown On Fleeing New Yorkers

    June 25:

    New York, New Jersey and Connecticut no longer permit travel from N. Carolina and several other states without an immediate 14 day quarantine.
    __ _

    Aaron Blake
    @AaronBlake

    Cuomo to @SRuhle on nursing home deaths:

    “Yes, we had more people die in nursing homes than anywhere else, because we had more people die — because the federal government missed the boat and never told us this virus was coming from Europe and not from China.”
    __ _

    commonsense
    @commonsense258
    ·
    Federal government did not make him require nursing homes to take Covid positive patients that was entirely on him
    __ _

    Chale
    @Chale333
    ·
    Cuomo was told by the feds in feb. he wrote guidelines that contradicted fed recommendations.
    __ _

    Chale
    @Chale333
    ·
    Florida has 3,173 CV deaths.

    Queens NYC, with one-tenth the population, has 5,276.

    Brooklyn—5,338

    Bronx—3,714

    Manhattan—2,410
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)


  28. Kaitlan Collins
    @kaitlancollins
    ·
    Amid surging infections, VP Pence said “there may be a tendency” to think the U.S. is where it was two months ago, “that we’re in a time of great losses & great hardship.” “The reality is we’re in a much better place,” he said.

    The U.S. set a record for daily new cases yesterday.
    __ _

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    ·
    Death by day in the US from covid-19 is down 2/3rds from its high in late April. That’s at least partially because we’re not leaving our nursing homes undefended, and a huge proportion of the new cases are young people who are less vulnerable. Which is indeed better.
    __ _

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    ·
    It’s not that we’re in good position. We’re not. But to suggest based on new cases alone that the situation is identical to where we were in April is simply not correct.
    __ _

    Rikki Ratliff
    @rikkiratliff
    ·
    Deaths per 100k residents
    NY: 160
    FL: 15
    TX: 8
    Source: WaPo twitter.com/nycjim/status/…
    __ _

    art jones
    @drivenbyart
    ·
    Cuomo tried to trap it in nursing homes. I don’t know what more you could ask.

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  29. Speaking of leftist fascists, Cuomo and Deblasio got smacked around by the courts for their anti-religious bigotry when it came to real religions and the restrictions they put in place versus the leftist religion of communism which was allowed free reign to ravage and pillage to their hearts content.

    NJRob (ac5ba0)

  30. Liz Cheney is Jeb Bush with a dress. She should just shut up and go away. As for wearing masks, they’re only needed if you’re indoors and don’t practice social distancing. And we’re not in CV-19 2nd wave, if we were everyone would’ve attacked the protesters for crowding together, shouting and yelling slogans and not wearing adequate masks.

    Sorry, but can’t get the “Protesters” a pass for a week, and then go back to being a mask nanny. No one believes you.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  31. Re: #30 and Harkin many times before that:

    Cool dude, unfortunate (for now) name.

    urbanleftbehind (394392)

  32. And we’re not in CV-19 2nd wave……
    You’re right, we’ve never gotten out of the first……

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  33. The same thing that brought down Jeb might bring down G. Abbott…on 2nd thought, it could have been worse, rc…a still single Jeb and Liz C. (the straight one) could have locked in a Lincoln Bedroom.

    urbanleftbehind (394392)

  34. Has Biden denounced the statue-topplers yet?
    I hear they may be looking to take down Honest Abe in Madison:


    “Just because he was anti-slavery doesn’t mean he was pro-Black”

    “UW-Madison students demanding the beloved Lincoln statue be extracted from its place of honor in the center of campus.
    I’m reading the news report at Channel 3000 with near disbelief. This is not like the Lincoln statue in Washington D.C. that’s been deemed problematic because he’s looming over the figure of a slave like he’s such a big shot “Emancipator.”

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/06/just-because-he-was-anti-slavery-doesnt.html?m=1
    __ _

    I don’t have a problem with the DC statue, he’s on his knees but he’s looking up about to rise and his chains are broken.

    But then again they aren’t looting libraries.
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)

  35. Actually there is substantial federal quarantine and isolation powers, through the CDC.

    They can control movement in and out of the country, but the federal government doesn’t have the enumerated authority to quarantine and isolate The People. That power rests with the states.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  36. 15, but is it the “regular folks” in Yakima and Spokane

    Yakima County is primarily agricultural and has a sizable Hispanic population, which is probably where it’s spreading the most. Spokane isn’t like that.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  37. A grim query but it needs to be asked

    https://spectator.us/where-deaths-coronavirus-wave/

    Narciso (7404b5)

  38. If the corrupt criminal traitor Trump had deliberately set out to destroy America, he could not have done a better job than the results of his witlessness, derangement, and malice so far.

    nk (1d9030)

  39. Given the 8,942 new cases today, the Ron DeSantis meal plan for tomorrow has just been announced…
    Breakfast: Crow omelet with crow pate on toast.
    Lunch: Crow melt, choked down with sweet iced tea.
    Dinner: Smoked barbeque crow on a shingle.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  40. Trump signs executive order to protect American monuments, memorials and statues
    …….
    “I just had the privilege of signing a very strong Executive Order protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues – and combatting recent Criminal Violence,” Trump tweeted. “Long prison terms for these lawless acts against our Great Country!”

    The new order enforces laws prohibiting the desecration of public monuments, the vandalism of government property, and recent acts of violence, withholds federal support tied to public spaces from state and local governments that have failed to protect public monuments, and withdraws federal grants for jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies that fail to stop their desecration.
    ………
    Meanwhile on Friday evening, Attorney General Bill Barr directed the creation of a task force to counter anti-government extremists, specifically naming those who support the far-right “boogaloo” movement and those who identify as Antifa.
    ………
    Insofar as the order withholds federal funding to states and police departments , it’s probably unconstitutional. More bloviating from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  41. On my local front (in NoCal at the moment):

    Went fishing up in the Sierras yesterday, did not see one mask at FULL campground, not even the Park Hosts, nor ranger talking to a few people.

    Today, went to gas station, no masks except myself and cashier.

    Also went to hardware store. About half the store workers wore masks, about a quarter of the customers.

    Sign on door said: ‘WE RESPECT YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE TO WEAR A MASK‘
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  42. Sign on door said: ‘WE RESPECT YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE TO WEAR A MASK‘

    We’re @$$holes, we’re cool with you being one too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  43. Paul Montagu, at 37: i think the feds also have the power to quarantine and isolate people crossing state lines.

    aphrael (7962af)

  44. 39 – Narciso

    Gotta love some of the comments:

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    New York flattened the curve much like how China solved their famine problem.

    __

    Plus – here’s the documentation on Cuomo’s nursing home apocalypse:

    https://twitter.com/WalterJWinchell/status/1276632654427938816?s=20
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  45. We’re @$$holes, we’re cool with you being one too.“
    __ _

    Same attitude as the Ranger and the campground hosts but they’re honest and upfront about it yes.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  46. It seems Trump isn’t dictatorial enough to suit the anti-Trump crowd.

    Good luck with whoever wins these people over.

    beer ‘n pretzels (55a824)

  47. So a month of open confrontations in bayside in down town orlando in tampa bay, cause and effect how the (redacted) to they work. Oh and lets not forget the leading health experts demanded protests because ‘racism is worse than the virus’

    Narciso (7404b5)

  48. Well, Italy might have pull up on its victory lap:

    http://news.yahoo.com/italy-sends-army-riot-erupts-171607169.html

    Let this also be a plug for Gomorrah La Serie, seasons 1 and 2 on Netflix (at least back in March)…truly scary show

    urbanleftbehind (394392)

  49. 42. Psst, Rip! Don’t go telling the Trumpkins that Trump was the first to defund the police and now he’s being the first again. They’ve burned out enough synapses already practicing Doublethink for over four years.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. Speaking of boogaloo, this might be a fake, along the lines of getting home too late from a tryst: http://www.nbc15.com/2020/06/25/police-bi-racial-woman-set-on-fire-while-waiting-at-madison-stoplight/

    urbanleftbehind (394392)

  51. Paul Montagu, at 37: i think the feds also have the power to quarantine and isolate people crossing state lines.

    I’m not so sure, aphrael. Trump trial-ballooned the quarantining of NY, NJ and CT, and it went nowhere, but governors of the respective states could work an arrangement. Put it this way, if Trump doesn’t have the power to impose a national quarantine, how can he restrict travel in or out of a tri-state area? Or, if Trump can’t reopen the country over states’ objections, how can he go the other way?

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  52. Just like the cdc had their head of their (redacted) focusing on racism and obesity, and missed the big story.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  53. Pence said: The freedom of speech, the right to peaceably assemble is enshrined in the Constitution of the United States.

    If only Pompeii’s deputy-mayor, Whitivs Scalpvs Pencivs, had a copy of it to wave at Vesuvius to stop that deadly eruption cold. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. It seems Trump isn’t dictatorial enough to suit the anti-Trump crowd.

    Right, because the only two choices are dictatorship or pretending the virus doesn’t exist.

    Any intermediate position would be an inconceivable logical impossibility.

    Dave (1bb933)

  55. Or, if Trump can’t reopen the country over states’ objections, how can he go the other way?

    The latter would be an emergency measure taken to defend the nation from invasion, and the former would be a usurpation of the states’ authority without corresponding justification.

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. Co-founder of ReOpen Maryland says he has COVID-19, but won’t help contact tracing efforts
    …….
    “ I was diagnosed yesterday at the ER with COVID-19 and here I am months after not wearing a mask at rallies, churches and so on and so it’s funny how capricious this thing is,” he said.
    …….
    In the first of what Walters described as a series of planned daily videos about his illness, he described himself as a 53-year-old man with diabetes who hasn’t maintained good health habits since he left the Navy.

    He said he has had a dry cough since March, that in recent days has worsened and expanded to include a headache, fever and loss of focus in one eye.
    ………
    Walters urged people who have come in contact with him in the past two weeks to pay attention to the symptoms he described but he said he would not provide any information to public health officials trying to trace the spread of the disease.

    Walters was having none of it.

    “I will not share anybody’s information with the government. I will not do it,” he said.

    In a second video posted Wednesday, Walters said he had been contacted by the state contact tracing team and decided to have his wife and members of his family tested. …….
    ……..
    Irony alert!

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  57. Mississippi appears to have enough votes to change state flag, senior lawmaker says
    Mississippi lawmakers who want to remove the Confederate battle emblem from the state’s flag appear to have enough votes in the state Legislature to make the change, a senior state lawmaker said Friday.

    State Rep. Robert Johnson III, the Democratic leader of the state House of Representatives, told NBC News that all the needed votes “appear to be there.”
    ……..
    Gov. Tate Reeves, a Republican who has opposed changing the flag through the legislature, acknowledged Thursday in a Facebook post that vetoing such legislation would be “pointless.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  58. @43 (also NorCal)

    Everyone at the bank and who I saw going into the post office wore masks. The guys at the smog check place didn’t (honestly I don’t really blame them, there were only like 3 guys, it was over 100 degrees and there was no AC, just waiting alone in the reception area was Very Very Hot. Everyone at the grocery store was masked. (I ran errands today.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  59. I thought I saw Dave post this earlier. This is the most insane thing that I’ve seen in, well, a few days at least.

    Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, Intelligence Says

    Trump was briefed in March, has done nothing, not even tweeter about it. He did talk about withdrawing US troops from Germany though.

    American intelligence officials have concluded that a Russian military intelligence unit secretly offered bounties to Taliban-linked militants for killing coalition forces in Afghanistan — including targeting American troops — amid the peace talks to end the long-running war there, according to officials briefed on the matter.

    This was also the plot of Homeland’s season this year, and Seal Team too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  60. The intelligence finding was briefed to President Trump, and the White House’s National Security Council discussed the problem at an interagency meeting in late March, the officials said. Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow and a demand that it stop, along with an escalating series of sanctions and other possible responses, but the White House has yet to authorize any step, the officials said.

    An operation to incentivize the killing of American and other NATO troops would be a significant and provocative escalation of what American and Afghan officials have said is Russian support for the Taliban, and it would be the first time the Russian spy unit was known to have orchestrated attacks on Western troops.

    Any involvement with the Taliban that resulted in the deaths of American troops would also be a huge escalation of Russia’s so-called hybrid war against the United States, a strategy of destabilizing adversaries through a combination of such tactics as cyberattacks, the spread of fake news and covert and deniable military operations.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  61. What’s also infuriating about this, Klink, is that, after Trump was briefed on this intelligence, he still wanted to invite Putin back into the G8.
    I predicted back in 2016 that Trump would be bad for America as president, and I was right (and I said the same thing about Hillary, too).

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  62. If Trump was a Russian mole, what would he be doing differently?

    Power is relative. Russia will never catch up to the United States by becoming stronger. It can only catch up by making us weaker, and Trump is the biggest weakener since the Confederacy.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. How Trump wins:

    He stands foresquare against a new lockdown, accusing Democrats of intentionally generating more cases by encouraging mass gatherings. He speaks to the young, telling them that they are being thrown under the bus to fight a illness that won’t affect them, and that he, Trump, won’t let that happen to them.

    He makes a strong law&order pitch, ordering the withholding of law enforcement funds from cities and states that reduce police spending.

    This is pretty much how Nixon won in 1968, in similar times. It would help a lot if he could not compete with the craziness of the Democrats though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. What do you call a proven plagiarist

    We are so FAR down the line from that being effective.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. How the Republicans win:

    They don’t. I don’t think even #65 actually works. The best the GOP can do is have a split right now. Choose up sides and nominate a second candidate make it clear that Trump is not considered a Republican by many. Then maybe they can hold onto something. As it stands Trump is going to lose in a landslide and every gain he GOP has made since 1980 will be wiped out with him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. @66. ROFLMAO Oh, ‘Right’– blatant character tells like plagiarism, which torpedoed JoeyBee’s 1988 presidential run, don’t matter much to the party of ‘character counts’ as it doesn’t count this sorta thing no’mo. Hear no evil; see no evil: Reaganoptics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. As it stands Trump is going to lose in a landslide…

    Anything you say, Hillary. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. love to see some dopey joe tell me to put on a mask on while i am on my property
    fricking nazis are all over this blog

    mg (8cbc69)

  69. @67 The Republican party’s problem is that Trump is a Dragon’s breath pepper and Biden is cilantro. They are trying to convince people that cilantro is poison, but almost everyone knows what cilantro is, even if they think it’s soapy, so it’s an uphill battle. When given the choice of setting your entire body on fire, from the mouth outward, or eating something that tastes like soap, sure, some people will take setting themselves probably non-fatally on fire, but many people would prefer to eat soap. (Oddly, IMO this metaphor also describes the attitude of the typical Biden voter vs the typical Trump voter, with the Biden voter not very excitedly eating his meal and the Trump voter careening around the room with his hair on fire.)

    *disclaimer- IRL I do not have the cilantro is soap gene.

    Nic (896fdf)

  70. What’s also infuriating about this, Klink, is that, after Trump was briefed on this intelligence, he still wanted to invite Putin back into the G8.

    He’s counting on the Russian vote in November.

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. love to see some dopey joe tell me to put on a mask on while i am on my property

    Reading is fundamental:

    I would do everything possible to make it required the people had to wear masks in public.

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. 73. And in the greatest American tradition of telling tyrants where to stick it, I’d do everything possible to avoid wearing a mask in public.

    Gryph (08c844)

  73. Bare Faces Matter

    urbanleftbehind (126a3b)

  74. Popcorn tub and Big Gulp sales, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  75. amen gryph, so fauci did a solid for his chinese masters, waylaying 47 million people, would they have done anything different, also the surgisphere fraud, also susan (fracking) rosenberg wurlitzer, has been behind cullors and tometti’s black panther charade,

    narciso (7404b5)

  76. also the taliban have been killing servicemen for 19 years, so, they need an incentive to do so, shirley,

    narciso (7404b5)

  77. If Fauci ever pleads, Br’er Rabbit-style, for people not to ingest fecal matter … buon appetito, Trumpkins!

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. Kind of funny that Pelosi’s most positive action in The Congress will be getting people to know the late George Kirby.
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)

  79. “ “In May, Georgia was the main target of expert contempt for its allegedly premature reopening. Since then, the media have gone silent, due to the state’s truly discouraging downward daily death toll from a high of 119 on April 7, long before the reopenings, to 10 on June 24. . ..”
    __ _

    https://spectator.us/where-deaths-coronavirus-wave/
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)

  80. It’s not a total loss. There’s still social distancing. Look at the people in the Florida video. Those are not faces anybody wants to be within six feet of. Or six yards.

    nk (1d9030)

  81. To anyone believing that the protests had no part in the positive test surge, Austin begs to differ:

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/austinhosp-1.png

    Good reference date is 5/28.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  82. 80. Which reminds me, you ever stop to think about why nursing homes are such hotbeds of CoViD-19 transmission?

    Gryph (08c844)

  83. In May, Georgia was the main target of expert contempt for its allegedly premature reopening…

    Yesterday, Georgia was tied for 9th in dead people and 5th in new cases (at 1,900). They are so winning!

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  84. 86. Where does South Dakota come in those rankings?

    Gryph (08c844)

  85. Which states have the highest positive rates for the virus today and how many are Republican states?

    I bet you won’t be surprised at the answer.

    noel (4d3313)

  86. I looked at Johns Hopkins site. The states vary quite a bit so I picked a mid-range 6% positive rate as a cutoff. Of the states that currently exceed 6% of tests returning a positive result for Covid-19…. 17 of 18 were Republican states.

    It sure didn’t start out that way.

    noel (4d3313)

  87. 89. Maybe Republicans are more serious about doing the testing properly and not covering up the inconvenient truth that it reveals…?

    Gryph (08c844)

  88. Time to put the Shelley Luthers back in jail, eh noel?

    beer ‘n pretzels (206766)

  89. The only inconvenient truth is how much Trump must suck for Americans to consider Joe Biden a preferable alternative.

    nk (1d9030)

  90. Paul Montagu (c8b54e) — 6/27/2020 @ 7:19 am

    Yesterday, Georgia was tied for 9th in dead people and 5th in new cases (at 1,900). They are so winning!

    That’s basically where they’ve been throughout this process. At one point I think they were a little higher on the list and at another lower. Some of the periods when they were lower was slow testing.

    Most of the early growth in GA was due to some specific outbreaks from some outliers. The current spread seems to be in counties that overlap Atlanta city limits. The direction of the covid deaths in GA are down.

    frosty (f27e97)

  91. Gryph, I would probably agree that in rural South Dakota your odds of surreptitiously catching Covid-19 are lower…probably much lower…than they are being in say a big city. The flux of people in and out of the state…..partly because of travel shutdowns….is just small. But it’s not zero. Goods are shipped in and out every day…business travel is not zero….people do leave and come back….and there is nothing inherently superior about the people of South Dakota that makes them genetically immune to viral infection.

    Transmission doesn’t require something miraculous….touching a common surface…like a doorknob….can be sufficient. The argument though isn’t to reduce all risk of catching the virus….for most it’s impractical to isolate 100%. The argument is that if you are not able to completely isolate, take simple precautions to make yourself less likely to further spread the virus. That’s how I view the masks….not some massive invasion of personal liberty….but a simple act that might make it a little harder for me to infect someone else…someone whose immune system might be far more vulnerable. I agree that cough on your hands, put on your mask, and touch a door knob….you can still be transmitting the virus….but we’re playing odds….and if it can help even a bit, why not do it?

    AJ_Liberty (0f85ca)

  92. Gryph (08c844) — 6/27/2020 @ 8:01 am

    You can always trust a source that focuses on cases and ignores hospitalization and deaths.

    frosty (f27e97)

  93. Gryph…. Maybe Republicans are more serious about doing the testing properly and not covering up the inconvenient truth that it reveals…?

    Maybe. And maybe Republican governors will stop testing altogether as the Donald has recently suggested. That would take care of those pesky results.

    noel (4d3313)

  94. …if it can help even a bit, why not do it?

    AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/27/2020 @ 8:11 am

    Because I reject the premise that CoViD-19 is some awful plague that threatens us all. When you start talking about risks and safety, there is a point of diminishing returns after which you’re materially no safer for taking extraordinary precautions.

    Gryph (08c844)

  95. 96. Either way, I am going to continue not wearing masks in public or patronizing any business that requires me to. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  96. Well…. there you have it. Everyone in the medical community that is not substituting for Sean or Rush tells you to wear masks. Everyone. But you know better.

    Now, I am not suggesting that you should have to wear one when you are pheasant hunting west of Mobridge, but really? If the results in Florida and Texas have not gotten your attention, and you won’t listen to Trump’s own task force, then I surely can’t persuade you.

    noel (4d3313)

  97. 86. Where does South Dakota come in those rankings?

    The link is there for you to look. Do you have a point, Gryph?

    That’s basically where they’ve been throughout this process.

    Deaths are a lagging indicator, frosty. In the last 14 days, new cases in GA grew 22%.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  98. “ The reason I’m walking you through all of this is because the recent rise in hospitalizations in Florida is driven by younger people. This appears to be true in Texas as well, though I don’t think we have data sources in Texas that break out the distribution as well as Florida’s.

    Some of my smart & wise friends like @kavitapmd point out that even if your risk of being hospitalized for #COVID19 is low, because you’re younger, it’s best to not get COVID and avoid that risk. I agree! Please wear masks when near others, wash your hands, distance, etc.

    One question that remains outstanding: Texas and states like it reopened on May 1. The rise in cases is in the last week or two. So what happened in late May or early June that has lead to rising cases?”
    __

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1276490546471677952.html
    __ _

    Search me.
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  99. 100. It can’t be that bad here in South Dakota. Newsworthy enough to point out that Noem is the least invasive governor bar-none in how she’s handling things, but not newsworthy enough to point out what a disaster it’s been here (which it hasn’t, by any measure). And here we are.

    99. I’m more worried about how things are here in the NE corner of the state where I actually live. Where there was never any threat of overwhelming our health care system. And where I see fewer and fewer people wear masks every weak. But you are right about one thing: you won’t convince me of anything that’s untrue. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  100. Gryph, you answered a question of ‘if it helps a little, why not’ with ‘because it’s not this horrible plague’ That isn’t answering directly.

    Masks obviously do help. That’s why you have to consistently pretend the question is whether COVID is bad enough, which to you, it never will be, if hundreds of thousands of people killed isn’t that bad in your book.

    But you are right about one thing: you won’t convince me of anything that’s untrue. 😉

    have you ever admitted you were mistaken about anything? Can you point to a single example? How seriously should we take your professed ability to know what is true or not? If you do possess this ability to see the real truth in something as complicated as a pandemic, why aren’t you working for a think tank or emergency agency? That skill would become recognized quickly. Some of your comments come across as some kind of psychological defense, like you are really proud of your refusal to go along with the sheeple and their masks just because it would be kind to others. That you have gotten extremely repetitive actually makes your argument seem weaker.

    😎

    Dustin (e3a6ae)

  101. Good news-

    16th Street Baptist Church bomber Thomas Blanton dies in prison

    The last surviving Ku Klux Klan member convicted in the 1963 bombing of the Sixteenth Baptist Church in Birmingham that killed four little girls has died.

    Thomas E. Blanton, 82, died of natural causes Friday morning at William E. Donaldson Correctional Facility in Jefferson County. He was found at 5 a.m. having cardiac issues and taken to the infirmary at Donaldson. He went into full arrest and was pronounced dead at 6:10 a.m., according to Jefferson County Chief Deputy Coroner Bill Yates.
    ………

    Blanton was one of three Klansmen eventually convicted in the Sept. 15, 1963 10:15 a.m. blast that killed 11-year-old Denise McNair and 14-year-olds Addie Mae Collins, Cythnia Wesley and Carole Robertson. The girls were killed as they changed into their choir robes.

    Collins’ sister, Sarah Collins Rudolph, survived the blast but lost her right eye and is known as the “fifth little girl.” Glass fragments remained in her chest, left eye and abdomen for decades after the explosion.

    Blanton and Bobby Frank Cherry both were arrested in 2000 on murder charges, nearly four decades after the deadly Birmingham bombing.

    A parole hearing was scheduled next year for Blanton…….
    ………

    Cherry and Blanton were two of the four longtime suspects in the bombing. The initial investigation in the 1960s yielded no charges. Then, a decade later, Attorney General Bill Baxley conducted a second investigation which led to the conviction of Robert Chambliss, who died in prison in 1985. A fourth suspect, Herman Cash, died in 1994.
    ……..
    …….. [T]he U.S. Justice Department concluded that former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover had blocked prosecution of Klansmen in the bombing.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  102. Reporter at Trump’s Tulsa rally tests positive for COVID-19
    A journalist who attended President Donald Trump’s rally in Tulsa last week said Friday he has tested positive for COVID-19.

    Oklahoma Watch reporter Paul Monies said he was notified Friday of his positive diagnosis.

    “I’m pretty surprised,” Monies wrote on Twitter. “I have zero symptoms (so far) and I feel fine. In fact, I ran 5 miles this morning.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  103. Rip Murdock,

    I’ve got an open thread up for you to post all of your links there. Thanks!

    Dana (25e0dc)

  104. Virus testing, tracking still plagued by reporting delays
    ……….
    Having access to quick test results will play an important role in resuming sporting events, keeping businesses and factories open, and returning to school in the fall. But the AP survey found it sometimes still takes days for results to be returned, despite an increase in the availability of testing across the country.
    ………
    Public health experts say testing delays present a major hurdle to reducing infections and tracking those who have been in close contact with a person who is positive for the virus.
    ………

    Guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend that states, as they lift final virus restrictions, have a turnaround time of less than two days.

    But it’s unclear whether states have access to detailed data showing whether they are meeting the CDC standard, including how long it takes to process tests at independent labs. Labs track their own turnaround times, but the CDC said data such as how long it takes for a test to get to a lab and for a provider to receive the result and notify the patient are not tracked. That makes it difficult to determine a “meaningful average” of what patients are experiencing in each state.
    ……..
    Until rapid tests are widely available, health experts say it will continue to take a day or two to get results under the best circumstances. That creates more opportunities for people who might be infected but feel fine to pass the virus along to others.
    …….
    One of the largest commercial laboratories, Quest Diagnostics, recently reported its average turnaround time as one day for priority patients and two to three days for all other populations. The company said it expects increased demand to result in longer waits of more than thee days.
    ……..
    Amazon plans to spend at least $300 million on a worker testing program that includes building its own laboratory. But even with the wealth and influence of the nation’s second-largest private employer, results are still expected to take three to five days. Officials said they hope to reduce the turnaround time to between 24 and 48 hours.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  105. 100. It can’t be that bad here in South Dakota.

    As I understand it, SD basically had a superspreading that started at a pork processing plant, and they contained it. It’s a rural state without a large metro area so, other than that episode, they’ve avoided the worst of the virus, as have other rural states. It doesn’t compare with more densely populated areas.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  106. “I will not be muzzled like a mad dog;’ face mask debate turns fierce in St. Lucie County (FL)
    …….
    I will not be muzzled like a mad dog,” said one man during the public comment session.

    “I see any of you without mask on I will personally call the police on you, just so you get that fine,” said another.

    The St. Lucie County Commission held a special meeting on Friday to discuss a Proposed “Order of the St. Lucie County Administrator requiring face coverings be worn in certain circumstances to slow the spread of COVID-19 particularly in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”

    Such an order would be countywide.
    ……..
    “Hundreds of citizens have contacted me regarding this issue over the last couple of weeks and the overwhelming majority have been in favor of a mandatory order with a very spirited minority in opposition,” stated (Port St. Lucie Mayor Greg Oravec said in a Facebook post).
    ……..
    After a fierce debate, leaders decided to continue the meeting on July 1.
    ————
    You go, Gryph!
    !

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  107. DOJ warns against fake face mask exemption cards
    Face mask exemption cards created by a Facebook group that encourages people to not wear face coverings during the pandemic are a sham, according to the Justice Department.

    In an alert, the DOJ said the bogus cards circulating online claim the holder does not have to abide by ordinances requiring face mask usage, claiming that doing so poses a mental or physical health risk. They cite the Americans With Disabilities Act and include a Department of Justice seal and phone number.
    …….
    Scroll down to see story.

    Rip Murdock (0240e5)

  108. “Have you ever seen a Commie wear a face mask, Mandrake?”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. I don’t see how or under what authority Biden, or any other president for that matter, could mandate mask-wearing in public nationwide. That seems to me to be a matter for state and authorities. Besides, the federal government seldom gets anything right. Did you know that over $1 billion of stimulus checks under the CARES act were sent to dead people?

    https://reason.com/2020/06/25/the-feds-sent-more-than-1-million-coronavirus-stimulus-payments-to-dead-people-gao-says/

    Now, I know that dead people can’t cash checks, but that’s not the point. It goes to the idiocy and incompetence of the administration’s response to the pandemic and the utter failure to contain it.

    Down here in the Rio Grande Valley, we’ve been under stay-at-home or secure-in-place, social distancing, limited gathering and face-covering orders for months. That was the county commissioner’s decision.

    But it’s not like we are required to wear masks in public at all times or when driving alone in a car. Certain businesses require customers to wear masks and limit the number of customers allowed in at one time, but that’s store policy. And you can’t argue with that. If you don’t want to shop there, because you belligerently refuse to wear a mask, fine. That is your prerogative, but good luck finding another store that doesn’t require customers and employees to wear masks and social distance.

    Gov. Abbott now says he regrets ordering the early re-opening, especially of bars, and has now rescinded the order, one day after he said he wouldn’t. Well, yeah, over the last few weeks Texas has seen a huge spike in infections and deaths, as have California and Florida (the three most populous states).

    The economic wreckage wrought by this pandemic is incalculable. Restaurants, bars, hotels, the hospitality and tourism industries are in severe decline. Would you take your family on a vacation to a city or state where infections and deaths are spiking?

    Even worse, the real estate market is collapsing. I keep saying this, and nobody wants to hear it, but home values are plummeting. I’ve always said that if you want to know the true state of the economy, forget the stock market, look at real estate values. People was to live in nice neighborhoods with good schools, where there are jobs. Well, with businesses closing, unemployment rising, wages declining, who’s going to be able to buy a house? And even if they had proof of financing or proof of cash, who is going to make an offer on a house in a city or state with rising infections and deaths? Not to mention closed businesses, low employment, depressed wages, and shut down schools.

    This is a real problem, because most people have their net worth tied up in home equity. I don’t care what you paid for your house or what you imagine it’s worth. A house will always only sell for what someone is willing to pay for it. That’s the first rule of real estate. The seller sets the list price, but the buyer determines the sales price. What happens when there are no buyers? The list price keeps getting lowered and lowered and lowered, until a buyer makes an acceptable offer, and it’s often tens of thousands below original list price.

    Home values are going down, way down. I know this because I’ve been involved in real estate practically all of my life, and I’ve been a licensed realtor for the last seventeen years. And because my mother is the primary owner and principal broker of the largest, most successful independent real estate corporation in South Texas, with listings throughout five counties across the Rio Grande Valley (an area larger than several small states combined). Do you know how many sales we’ve closed? One, since February. My commission was $600. That’s great, since I paid $800 for continuing education, license renewal, board membership and MLS dues, in February, and an additional $200 in quarterly dues in May. So I’m out $1,000, not to mention gas, maintenance, registration, and insurance for my car, and my income over the last four months has only been $600.

    80% of realtors quit within two years of getting their license. I can see why. They can’t afford it, and it’s no wonder, because being self-employed, working on a pure commission basis, is hard. Now, both my mother and I have to apply for unemployment benefits from the Texas Workforce Commission, because we simple cannot generate income, since there are no buyers on the market, no sales being made, and no deals being closed. That’s how bad it has become, and I expect it to get worse before it gets better, a lot worse.

    https://reason.com/2020/06/26/the-pandemics-economic-carnage-looks-worse-than-expected/

    People are in denial. 130,000 people are dead, millions more are infected, and the numbers keep rising. This is not a joke or a hoax or fake news. This is serious.

    So, yeah, I wear a mask when I go out in public. I don’t need one when I’m inspecting a vacant home, but I always have one with me, because if I need to stop somewhere and pick up supplies, store policy requires I wear a mask and social distance. I don’t like it, but this is the reality.

    Biden is an idiot, however Trump is an ignoramus. This election won’t be about a choice between the lesser of two evils, it will be about the smarter of two dunces. God help us all.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  110. 110. Lest you forgot, I am from South Dakota. I don’t have to worry about any of that particular sort of unpleasantness. Our local city council here let their “emergency” ordinance lapse two weeks ago and since then, compliance has been strictly voluntary.

    Gryph (08c844)

  111. 109. I don’t think the Smithfield incident qualified as a superspread by the numbers, but regardless, I’m struck by the utter lack of curiosity about just how Sioux Falls managed to keep it from being worse. “It’s a small state” is an awfully convenient explanation, but I always figured there was more to it than that.

    Gryph (08c844)

  112. 104.

    have you ever admitted you were mistaken about anything?

    I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken.

    How seriously should we take your professed ability to know what is true or not?

    That depends on how willing you are to cede the fact that 1 + 1 = 2. I’m not going to get sucked into debating what is and what isn’t when it’s a question of simple mathematical certainty. Equations always balance.

    Some of your comments come across as some kind of psychological defense, like you are really proud of your refusal to go along with the sheeple and their masks just because it would be kind to others.

    Again with the false “kind to others” premise. I am not sick, I have not gotten anyone else sick, and I have managed such by simply avoiding nursing homes and health care facilities. My track record is good in any practical sense, although I am not in the least bit ashamed of offending others with my abject refusal to wear a cloth diaper over my mouth.

    That you have gotten extremely repetitive actually makes your argument seem weaker.

    I’m an American. There’s kind of a lost art to telling tyrants where they can cram their mandates.

    Gryph (08c844)

  113. “It’s a small state” is an awfully convenient explanation, but I always figured there was more to it than that.

    I said rural state, not “small state”. From what I read about it, the spread at the plant was aided by hundreds of employees, working in close proximity, and then those folks went home and spread it to family members in multi-generational households. Had it not hit the plant, then I suppose the effect of the virus on South Dakota would’ve been similar to how it’s playing out in the similarly named state to the north.
    If it didn’t happen that way, then you tell me. You’re the local.

    Paul Montagu (c8b54e)

  114. 117. I don’t live in Sioux Falls. I only know about what’s going on there from what I hear in the news, and I’m pretty skeptical of most of that.

    Gryph (08c844)

  115. I’ve been thinking that a good analogy to mandated wearing of masks during the pandemic are the WWII blackouts.

    Nothing in the Constitution explicitly gives the government the power to mandate use of blackout curtains or enforce the extinction of light sources after dark.

    Arguably, except for areas on the immediate shoreline where illumination helped enemy submarines target silhouetted ships, the blackout was pointless as a defense measure. And yet people complied to show their love of country and willingness to share in the much greater sacrifices being made by others on the front lines.

    I wonder if today’s self-centered sociopaths who refuse to take proven life-saving precautions would have shown their “patriotism” by ignoring the blackout in the war, too?

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. 119. “Proven life-saving precautions?” See, that’s where you lose me. Nothing’s been proven. Nothing. I know I am taking a gamble and I accept the odds. But to say that masks are proven to save lives? That’s hyperbole at best, dishonest at worst.

    Gryph (08c844)

  117. If precautions don’t work, why don’t hospital personnel who wear PPE get Covid in the same percentages as the public? Why do you know Covid is different than every other virus?

    Further, why do the Covid numbers change in places or times when people take precautions vs places/times when they don’t? Is it all coincidence?

    DRJ (aede82)

  118. 121. I didn’t say precautions don’t work. I said there is no definitive proof that wearing a mask correlates to lower transmission numbers. And there is not. There was no definitive proof that HCQ worked as a therapeutic or a prophylactic, and yet I thought it would be a good idea to make that “precaution” more widely available. There were those who disagreed with me on that point, as well.

    You wanna wear a mask? Fine. Go ahead and wear a mask. You want to shame me for my refusal to wear a mask in public? Fine. You can try. Whether or not masks work, your efforts to shame me won’t.

    Gryph (08c844)

  119. But that is a 1+1=2 argument. We often don’t know things to a mathematical certainty but we can know things to a reasonable certainty.

    Masks are precautions and IMO it is reasonable to say they help because medicine uses them to limit transmission of other airborne viruses. Maybe they don’t always work but you cannot say they never work.

    DRJ (aede82)

  120. He’s impervious to evidence or information he doesn’t like, DRJ. Just like Trump.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. I don’t care if you wear a mask. I don’t have any interest in shaming you or anyone. I see lots of people who don’t wear masks and it doesn’t bother me. What offends me is when you suggest there is no certainty masks help. There is not certainty they help but there is no certainty they don’t help either, and there is a medical reason for wearing masks during a virus pandemic.

    I like letting people choose but give them the complete picture.

    DRJ (aede82)

  122. I know people have gone over this endlessly. I don’t want to add to commenters’ irritation. But, Gryph, I was the first commenter to validate your concerns about a shutdown. You thought that was too extreme and I understood that. Now I think it is too extreme when you say there is no certainty masks help.

    Frankly, there is a likelihood they help. So what? That doesn’t mean we should be forced to wear them outside health care settings. Some places may try to make people wear them and eventually there will be legal and legislative responses. But claiming we must know they help with certainty strikes me as not helpful. We make decisions all the time without being certain of all the facts.

    DRJ (aede82)

  123. The retired Commandant of Stalag 13 wrote:

    I can’t really comment on race, ex-urban Kentucky isn’t where you go to find a lot of diversity, but both my Indian neighbors are masked up when I filled up at one of their gas stations.

    The non-Hispanic white population percentage of the Bluegrass State is 84.1%, with blacks being just 8.5%, lower than the national average. The rural county in which I live is 97.6% non-Hispanic white, and black non-Hispanics are 0.13%! We’ve also had exactly one confirmed COVID case, though a few others were suspected.

    The Dana in Kentucky (6df47f)

  124. DCSCA wrote:

    Leave it to State Police; quill a few tickets: enforce it for the time necessary like seat belt laws.

    I wonder under what legal authority could the President of the United States both mandate that people wear the masks and set a fine or imprisonment term for the failure to do so, for the state police to enforce.

    The Dana in Kentucky (6df47f)

  125. The retired Commandant of Stalag 13 wrote:

    Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, Intelligence Says

    The New York Times:

    Four Americans were killed in combat in early 2020, but the Taliban have not attacked American positions since a February agreement. American troops have also sharply reduced their movement outside military bases because of the coronavirus, reducing their exposure to attack.

    Doesn’t seem as though that bounty has had much effect.

    The Dana in Kentucky (6df47f)

  126. Maybe, just maybe that’s all I’m saying, the Taliban are not fighting for money. Maybe they’re fighting for their God and for their country.

    nk (1d9030)

  127. You might also wish to consider that this is the same Fifth Avenue pervy poofter boy, who can only be mistaken for a President in a dim light after you’ve had five Jack Daniels, who said that Bowe Bergdahl should be thrown out of a helicopter for going AWOL.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Four Americans were killed in combat in early 2020, but the Taliban have not attacked American positions since a February agreement. American troops have also sharply reduced their movement outside military bases because of the coronavirus, reducing their exposure to attack.

    If you’d have read the article, or not intentionally removed the context, the bounties were during the negotiations with the Taliban beginning in 2019, where are further 20 American’s were killed. Gen. Nicholson believed it was happening at least as far back as 2018.

    You are trying to dismiss it, like it isn’t both war and a war crime. The Russians were/are paying our enemies to kill our troops in a during peace negotiations, Trump has known at least for months, and hasn’t done diddly squat. Since we’re doing nothing about it, do you think the Russians aren’t paying ISIS in Iraq/Syria, or wherever else?

    He’s defending those monuments to the other people who attacked America, i.e. enemies, though, so at least there’s that.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (9878f6)

  129. > I see lots of people who don’t wear masks and it doesn’t bother me.

    This may be where you and I differ. Since the primary point of me wearing a mask isn’t to protect *me*, it’s to protect *other people from the possibility that I might infect them* by trapping my droplets, my reaction to anyone I encounter in public who isn’t wearing a mask is to conclude that they *do not care* if they infect other people.

    It’s a sign to me that I should avoid them because they are openly proclaiming that they are unwilling to be mildly inconvenienced to reduce the risk of accidentally killing me. Even if they have the legal right to do so — and they don’t, in the state where I live — their open declaration of the relative value they place on their convenience and on other people’s lives is a sign that they are definitionally a threat to me.

    aphrael (7962af)

  130. > You can always trust a source that focuses on cases and ignores hospitalization and deaths.

    hospitalization and death are lagging indicators. today’s hospitalization and death rates are a factor of the infection rate 2-3 weeks ago, respectively.

    aphrael (7962af)

  131. hospitalization and death are lagging indicators. today’s hospitalization and death rates are a factor of the infection rate 2-3 weeks ago, respectively.

    And hospitalizations are spiking right now, deaths will be spiking from those hospitalizations in 2 to 3 weeks. If people are going to the ICU, a large percent will leave on a gurney. The key is to not go to the hospital, i.e. don’t get sick, and if you do, don’t pass it on.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (9878f6)

  132. If only the dinosaurs had a copy of the U.S. Constitution to wave at that killer asteroid to stop it cold before it slammed into the planet and killed’em all off.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. And now Bexar County (San Antonio) has sent out a reverse 911 alert warning everyone to stay home because hospitals are approaching capacity and the virus is spreading so quickly that it’s not safe to go out.

    aphrael (7962af)

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