Insanity in Seattle
You want to know what life without police looks like? It looks like this. Antifa protesters fought with police in an area surrounding the Seattle Police East Precinct building. Then … well, this:
Then, in a stunning turn of events, the City of Seattle made the decision to abandon the East Precinct and surrender the neighborhood to the protesters. “This is an exercise in trust and de-escalation,” explained Chief Carmen Best. Officers and National Guardsmen emptied out the facility, boarded it up, and retreated. Immediately afterward, Black Lives Matter protesters, Antifa black shirts, and armed members of the hard-Left John Brown Gun Club seized control of the neighborhood, moved the barricades into a defensive position, and declared it the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone—even putting up a cardboard sign at the barricades declaring “you are now leaving the USA.”
On the new rebel state’s first night, the atmosphere was festive and triumphant. Hooded men spray-painted the police station with slogans and anarchist symbols, renaming it the “Seattle People’s Department East Precinct.” Raz Simone, a local rapper with an AK-47 slung from his shoulder and a pistol attached to his hip, screamed, “This is war!” into a white-and-red megaphone and instructed armed paramilitaries to guard the barricades in shifts. Later in the night, Simone was filmed allegedly assaulting multiple protestors who disobeyed his orders, informing them that he was the “police” now, sparking fears that he was becoming the de facto warlord of the autonomous zone. A homeless man with a baseball bat wandered along the borderline and two unofficial medics in medieval-style chain mail stood ready for action.
This is happening in an American city, with the support of the local government.
The #SeattleAutonomousZone is devolving into warlordism.
Rapper Raz Simone, who has been patrolling the barricades with an AK-47 and a handgun, has begun assaulting residents who disobey him.
"We are the police now," says his crew. "We are the leaders."pic.twitter.com/IJXYpyyYsy
— Christopher F. Rufo (@realchrisrufo) June 10, 2020
Antifa is a bogeyman, little more than a figment of overheated right-wing imaginations. Also, they just declared an autonomous zone covering several blocks in Seattle, and are planning to expand their territory.
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) June 11, 2020
The country is going insane.
The country isn’t insane. The left is. They always were. Stop pretending it’s anything less than what they’ve promised for the past 40 years. This is who they are. This is what we are up against.
They want to control everything including your life. If you dissent, you will be destroyed. Here’s another example.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/theres-an-effort-to-get-me-fired-at-cornell-for-criticizing-the-black-lives-matter-movement/
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:12 amEach political side has their problems.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:15 amThis is where the black bloc irrupted at the wto protests so its not surprising
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:16 amIf the officials pretended Antifa were actually ranchers named Bundy, this could end pretty quickly.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:17 amWho was prescient about this,
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/08/18/cnns_angela_rye_washington_jefferson_statues_need_to_come_down.html
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:18 amThis is the fifth (5) time this has happened in Seattle since 1970.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:22 amWhat kind of people lived there before the cops bugged out?
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:23 amThe extremists are the problem.
I disagree with the left, but the extremists on both sides are the ones who worry me.
Patterico (115b1f) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:24 amOccupy wall street ended with a whimper.
The Bundy siege ended with a whimper.
Runy Ridge ended as a tragedy.
Wacco ended as a tragedy that could likely have been avoided if Janet Reno had listened to the local sheriff, backed off, and picked up Koresh in a week or two when things cooled off.
These clowns had all food stolen by Hobo’s and asked for donations. I expect there will be many more examples of their clownishness before people get bored and fade away.
I could be wrong. This area could devolve into an urban hellscape. I haven’t seen reports that it is but I’m sure what they’re doing is impacting people who have a right to live their life so there’s costs to this approach. Maybe the best course of action is to issue an order to disperse and arrest everyone that doesn’t follow it. I don’t know if that would be less bad, or if that would results in more harm. I see both waiting them out and arresting them as valid policy choices with risks. City leadership owns the results of whatever they choose and it’s up to them to explain and justify that choice.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:26 amIn london they are tearing down churchill, in virginia beheading columbus, it seems all of western civilization is descending into dark age sans emp
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:27 amChurches are being burnt down and not just in washington. The pontiff mumbles like don corleone.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:29 amWhat are the extremists on the right doing right now? What have they done for the past 40 years? What agenda have they passed? How have they moved the Overton Window?
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:33 amI said my piece in another thread, but I’ll reiterate that (1) Mayor Durkan is a fool for capitulating to the mob, and (2) things will settle because the Chazzers are in the “WTF do we do now” phase of the “occupation”. SPD is still answering 911 calls and the city is still providing city services*. Just like Portlandia has its own unique, uh, culture, this episode is another example of basic Seattle weirdness. The town has strong anti-war hippy roots from the Vietnam era, and something like this gives the old geezers in the REI sandals something to cheer about.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:33 amMy best guess going forward is this: SPD will get its precinct back after making some ridiculous and stupid overtures, and they’ll make a few changes to their policing on Capitol Hill. There will be little change in the actual high-crime areas. CHAZ might get an office or the wing of a building and play community organizer, and then life will go on because the fairly well-to-do residents in the vicinity will only take so much left-wing bullsh*t and disruption.
* If the city really wants to push back, Seattle-owned City Light controls the electricity.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:17 am
Is Inslee still claiming he isn’t aware of what’s going on?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:39 amLike Tulsa in 1921*, this is happening because the politicians want the votes of the criminals and their sympathizers.
*Not to mention all the other atrocities of the KKK, but Tulsa we’ve already been talking about.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:42 amHas he ever been, but hes a dutiful skydragon worshiper.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:44 amJames q wilson has to scream from the ether,
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:47 amColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:22 am
Ah, the fifth (5) time? That’s one (1) every ten (10) years, let me check the rule book … yep, it looks like that’s below the limit. We’ll have to allow it.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:48 amTime123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:26 am
Janet Reno was only listening to Clinton’s top aides, and a plan was crated whereby most of the Davidians could be killed and the compound destroyed so there would not be a good investigation of what happened on February 28, 1993. This was done on a way that everybddy could escape responsibility for the fire. Officially her orders were only to shrink the perimeter, and it was not supposed to be D-Day. (somehow she didn;t didn’t notice what the FBI spojesman was saying all day) But they were given the right to fire back if they were fired upon. The FBI, as planned, lied about being fired upon but also said they didn’t fire back in return but only set out to shrink the perimeter. They injected CS tear gas, when they wanted the fire to begin. It becomes flammable as its concentration is reduced and the compound was full of kerosene lamps. They made up lies about the Davidians spilling fuel and before that that the Davidians wanted to commit suicide. They also had some of the false Texas arson experts ready at hand to claim the Davidians started the fire and wouldn’t let anyone else look at the compound before destroying it.
Bill Clinton decided that the compound had to be destroyed and Koresh and a few other key people at Mt Carmel had to die in order to protect Friend of Bill J William Buford, head of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobaccoo and Firearms in Little Rock, Arkansas, and one of the leaders of the raid whose name is in the search warrant – he improved the warrant at the beginning of January 1993 by adding sex abuse allegations.
Buford had murdered three of his own men in front of KWTX-TV cameras (Channel 10 in Waco) by firing into a room on the second floor they had just entered. (since they were all dressed up you would need to reconstruct who was who and where everyone ws to know for certain) Bill Clinton sent Roger Altman to visit Buford in the hospital.
Later, in order to create a red herring, he said on March 17, 1993 in a speech to Treasury Department employees, that these three men had been assigned to his security (which was obvious nonsense.)
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:50 am@2, @8:
Both sides….
LOL
Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the kids take over the school, descending it into chaos, while the authorities look the other way — until they hear a school prayer. Finally, outraged, they put their foot down.
https://youtu.be/AG26IoRBuWQ
beer ‘n pretzels (63146f) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:52 am@12 NJRob, here’s the most obvious example.
They were caught before they could do more harm, but they’re out there.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:56 amYou guys all know the quote by H. L. Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
Radicalism is just democracy on steroids.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:59 amThis is useful. I want to thank the Seattle government for this exercise in reducio ad absurdum. Now all they need to do is reinforce the barricades from the outside.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:06 amJVW, I disagree, it’s not an extension of democracy. It’s a sign of how anarchy has ended in the other examples that we have; Warlord- ism.
Take away the state and you get a strongman. If left along long enough it will either end up as tribalism or they re-invent some form of democracy.
Time123 (66d88c) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:07 amJVW (ee64e4) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:59 am
The irony of this situation never ends. I can’t help laughing at the articles that say this is an area where people are gathering without police while there’s a guy walking around saying he’s the police.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:09 amTime123 (66d88c) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:07 am
It’s not really warlordism. Any of these people can walk a couple of blocks and get away. The people in the free zone are choosing to be there.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:21 amAny of these people can walk a couple of blocks and get away.
“Splitters!”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:23 am“What are the extremists on the right doing right now? What have they done for the past 40 years? What agenda have they passed? How have they moved the Overton Window?”
Nothing, Oklahoma City (two guys) plus the occasional isolated case, none and not at all.
But they’ve been the bogeymen for the Dems and media for years, each small isolated bit of right-wing nuttery sensationalized as the soul of White America.
They just spent over three years trying to invalidate an election while people who should know better twisted themselves into pretzels explaining how they are the good guys.
They’ve also for about two and half months been telling us that wanting to go to church or shop or even surf was to be a merchant of death in service to the Grim Reaper. Then they threw it all out the window because White Supremacy is the real killer (never mind black-on-Black crime statistics DON’T YOU DARE BRING UP BLACK CRIME STATISTICS OR THE PARTY THAT CONTROLS THESE URBAN MOSH PITS).
A lot of people are sitting in their cozy homes and saying it will all blow over because hey they just riot periodically, turn off the electricity, They’ll go home, cool off and vote the way they’re told to vote.
But there’s also a lot of liberals (e.g. older liberals at the NYTimes) who are looking at the bright young radicals who licked up every past column of Hate White America bile and are wondering why they hate not just whites but America overall so much and hey, that Trump voter there is your enemy, not me and Hey! wtf what do you mean the Constitution needs to be shredded?????
This has a good chance of getting a lot uglier, but don’t blame people on the right for any of it, yet.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:25 am_
I live about a mile away. It’s a little scruffy there now but not a hellscape. And “warlordism” is pretty exaggerated. My guess is in in a few days people will get bored with trying to create a government from nothing. And of course at this point it’s raining, which makes cosplay Paris Commune even more difficult to pull off.
There is a question about what happens to the police station though. I could see it becoming a contentious issue.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:25 amDo you suppose that Covid-19 causes brain damage? Has the average IQ dropped to 57? WTF is wrong with this year?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:25 amWhat are they doing for coffee, Victor?
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:31 am“ WTF is wrong with this year?”
Back in January, watching the impeachment circus and with thoughts of the upcoming national election and, well, knowing the media, Dems, Trump, Never-Trumpers etc., I started saying “2020 gonna be off the hook!”.
Then, as things started getting more insane each week, I just stopped saying it.
Now I figure Godzilla walks out of the sea in Sept. or August.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:32 am_
If you want a more balanced view from proponents, you can read this article, or even the article in the Seattle Times today.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43888539/an-exceedingly-chill-day-at-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/comments
The whole thing may fail, actually it probably will, but in the meantime it’s pretty peaceful.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:34 amsomeone turned on the multiverse thingy, I don’t think the serfs of seattle voted for this shake and bake zemtsvo, only maybe 60$
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:43 amI would say kaiju, or the river croc in rampage, that is such an insanely crazy film,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:46 amharkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:25 am
The right and the left.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:49 amso its john spartan with a synthezizer, do they use them anymore,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:53 amJVW, I disagree, it’s not an extension of democracy. It’s a sign of how anarchy has ended in the other examples that we have; Warlord- ism.
No, it’s truly the demos in democracy. It’s why, as Mencken would be the first to tell us, we don’t want to live in a society where 51% of the people rule over the other 49%. The “state” is not democracy; it’s a compact people agree to abide by in order to live together.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:57 amOver at Powerline, Steven Hayward poses an intriguing question: What if the Seattle PD is very slyly engaging in a wildcat strike in letting the mob overrun their precinct? Showing oh-so-progressive Seattle what the city might look like if law enforcement is denuded. Interesting thought.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:59 amafter the ‘peaceful protests’ of minneapolis, that seems a fools mug, see los angeles 92,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:02 amWhat if the Seattle PD is very slyly engaging in ….
Then the cops buy up the devastated neighborhood real estate at literally dirt-cheap and flip it to the Chinese and Russian partnered developers who are financing Antifa.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:09 amNot really. They have no support. They have no funding. No one defends them. They don’t move the Overton Window at all. They are fringe. Now compare to Antifa, BLM, Black Panthers, Farakkhan, Sharpton , etc. What do you see?
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:10 amSuppose the cops won’t let them OUT now.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:11 amNah. It’s going to be Yellowstone. It’s gotta be Yellowstone. 2012 end of the world was just a dyslexic read. It meant 2021.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:13 amYou really should be writing movies. This would be hilarious.
Dustin (d59cff) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:16 amhttps://www.lowellsun.com/2020/06/11/california-deputy-shot-in-ambush-attack-at-police-station/
Another cop shot in the head. Just a statistic, right?
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:16 amAntifa, -> Alt Right
Time123 (89dfb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:17 amBlack Panthers -> Proud Boys
Farakkhan -> Rep Steve King, or that Qanon Loon who just won a primary
Sharpton -> Bannon
Yeah, because a bunch of Communists – that’s what Antifa really is – take over 1 square mile of Seattle, with no resistance from the Mayor and the Governor, that’s because the PEOPLE are to blame.
Yeah. That’s why Lenin took over Russia. Democracy. That’s why Castro took over Cuba. Democracy. Whenever a bunch of left-wing thugs take over, the average person is to blame. If only people would follow ann rand and believe in the free market! Or maybe we can repeal the 17th Admendment. that would stop Antifa. Except Antifa is SUPPORTED by Bezos, Sorros, the Media Giants, and a lot of rich radicals. But get rid of Democracy and everything would be A-Ok.
Judas Priest, you can’t make this up.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:20 am@46, Rob that’s horrible. But your summary was incorrect, The office was wounded and it was a transient that was shot in the head. I don’t see how that makes anything better.
Time123 (89dfb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:20 amHere’s a clue for all you elites who are Center-Right. The elite institutions in this country: The Law, the Press, Universities, Movies and the arts, are Controlled by the Left.
So putting more power in the hands of the elite, because you dislike Democracy, is just going to allow the LEft to win. The only reason we don’t have full-blown socialism is because of average people have some power -like electing Trump.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:23 amIf you want another slice of “insanity”, just check out what went on in Muscogee County, Georgia.
If you like seeing whitebread dudes in suits trying to move around to some rap, the Jones campaign video is hi-larious.
That’s right. What some of us did in high school parking lots got bumped up to felony charges.
The messed up statewide election was only the 2nd most interesting story in Georgia. Sorry for the threadjack.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:24 amNow I figure Godzilla walks out of the sea in Sept. or August.
Will he/him be wearing teh mask?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:25 amHere’s a clue for all you elites who are Center-Right. The elite institutions in this country: The Law, the Press, Universities, Movies and the arts, are Controlled by the Left.
Where would we be without penetrating insights like these, apprising us of facts that heretofore had totally escaped our notice?
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:26 am‘this is what democracy looks like’ recall that from the walker protests,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:28 amI’m honestly not sure what you’re responding to with this or your previous comment. Is it based on JVW’s comment about Menken earlier? That was a joke about being careful what you wish for….
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:30 amSince Left only means “Not Mr. President Donald Trump’s butt-licker” to certain people, I find that to be a most wonderful thing.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:30 amI miss Obama.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:32 amIn answer to the question of what people do for coffee in the CHAZ, well a lot of the restaurants had already been shut down for the virus and were just opening up. But anyway those that were opening up have mostly opened up anyway and are serving coffee.
And Rcocean, it’s not a square mile. It’s six blocks. You should try to get your math right.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:33 amFalse equivalence on all ends. Alt-Right isn’t nearly as large, active, violent as antifa nor are they supported by the majority of their side, especially policially.
Proud Boys aren’t relevant at all and just a subsection of the alt-right.
Steve King was disowned by his own party and lost his primary. Farakkhan continues to be embraced by the left and their party and their influence respectively is much different.
Bannon isn’t feted upon and given kingmaker status anywhere. He’s ignored. He also hasn’t incited riots and polgroms like Sharpton.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:35 amUnless you’re calling the AP liars, my summary was dead on correct.
From the article:
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:39 amLife w/o police? More like life w/o work.
Seeded 35 years; Hell’s crop has come in, fertilized w/a pandemic. =cough=
How Kud-low can it go?
Reaganomics.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:44 amI miss Obama.
No doubt once the leftist historians chronicle this era, they’ll pretend that Antifa, the anthem kneel downs, and police racism started when Trump became president.
You already see this sort of nonsense in news reports, next to the articles that say George Wallace was a Republican.
beer ‘n pretzels (63146f) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:44 am61… that is insane.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:44 amRob, you’re correct, I read it wrong and focused on this part.
My fault for reading quickly and not closely.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:48 amAntifa, -> Alt Right
Black Panthers -> Proud Boys
You should let folks know when you have documented evidence of violence that supports this nonsensical analogy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:50 amEscape From Seattle with Antonio Vargas as Snake Foreskin…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:58 amThis isn’t geometry and we’re never going to find exact parallels. I dislike everyone on that list and to me they seem pretty similar in a lot of ways. I’ll take a stab at explaining.
The Alt-Right was a large part of Trumps core supporters and have more influence with him than Antifa ever did with Obama or likely will with Biden. They seem to dislike Biden from what i can tell.
My impression of the new black panthers is that they’re basically a joke at this time, the proud boys are much more active.
Bannon’s star has waned but he was a big deal for while. Maybe I should have put Steve Miller in since he’s currently influential?
King is a bad comparison because he lost his primary. But he wasn’t a flash in the pan and was in congress for years. Farakkhan hasn’t had influence on policy for decades. Let’s see if Steve king slinks off to retire or continues to be a thought leader now that he’s out of office.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:59 amTime123 (89dfb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:17 am
Here’s what the SPLC, a notoriously right-wing propaganda group, says about the Black Panthers
Here’s what they say about the Proud boys:
The Proud Boys aren’t Boy Scouts but Black Panthers -> Proud Boys is a reach. The Sharpton -> Bannon is a flat out joke.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:05 amAnother cop shot in the head. Just a statistic, right?
The media and left won’t talk about this, just like they won’t talk about BLM assassinating cops in Dallas a couple of years ago.
Remember – only the right and its conservative members can do bad things. The left – liberals – can do no wrong.
But hey, I’m sure Biden will make things all better…
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:06 amI do appreciate you trying to have a civil discussion on this issue. I think those groups you compared might gain greater traction if they had the media and social media pushing them like those on the left. But they experience headwinds which keep them small by comparison much to our benefit. Now if only the media and social media didn’t push the leftist radicals and instead supported our nation.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:08 amI am enjoying the schadenfreude from seeing the leftist takeover of a small part of seattle where they are using armed guards and fences to protect their enclave from being invaded by individuals who don’t share their beliefs.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:10 amI am enjoying the schadenfreude from seeing the leftist takeover of a small part of seattle where they are using armed guards and fences to protect their enclave from being invaded by individuals who don’t share their beliefs.
I will enjoy it more when the more truculent liberals in the leftist takeover start imposing their will on the Karens.
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:11 am“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Mattsky (55d339) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:20 am― George Orwell, Animal Farm
Frosty, your quote made me wonder if i was wrong. So i followed the link. Based on the rest of the article they seem pretty comparable and horrid.
Here’s what the SPLC goes on to say.
s.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:22 amMore political cowardice:
‘I should not have been there,’ Milley says of Trump photo op.
The country’s top military official apologized on Thursday for taking part in President Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square for a photo op after authorities used tear gas and rubber bullets to clear the area of peaceful protesters.
“I should not have been there,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a prerecorded video commencement address to National Defense University, reports Helene Cooper. “My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.”
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:23 am…..
The general believed that he was accompanying Mr. Trump and his entourage to review National Guard troops and other law enforcement personnel outside Lafayette Square, Defense Department officials said.
The feeling is mutual NJRob. If you have any reliable info on the relative sizes I’d love to see it. I don’t mean that as “PROOOVE IT!!!” I’ve looked before and never found any estimates on size that I found credible. That leaves us with our impressions which are likely flawed.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:24 amOT:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/08/18/cnns_angela_rye_washington_jefferson_statues_need_to_come_down.html
If you thought they’d stop with Confederate statues, you were wrong.
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:26 am@77, let’s see where that goes. I’m not shocked someone said it. I will be surprised if it get’s much traction. Washington’s slave owning was evil. But he did great things when he lead the revolutionary way and further great things when he defined the presidency through his actions.
Confederate generals by contrast are defined almost entirely by evil actions, though some were good military leaders.
Time123 (89dfb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:30 amPress secretary claims Juneteenth is a ‘meaningful day’ to Trump……
……
“The African American community is very near and dear to his heart. At these rallies he often shares the great work he has done for minority communities,” McEnany said, citing criminal justice reform and funding for historically black colleges and universities. “He’s working on rectifying injustices … So, it’s a meaningful day to him, and it’s a day where wants to share some of the progress that’s been made as we look forward and more that needs to be done.”
…..
McEnany continued Thursday to make an illogical argument defending the President’s decision rejecting renaming 10 US military bases named after Confederate leaders, claiming Thursday that the bases are defined by people who serve there and not those they are named after.
“If you change the name, what you are saying to the men and women who left those forts, who died for this country in many cases, you are telling them that the institution they left was fundamentally and inherently racist because of the name that is on it. The President doesn’t stand for that proposition, he wants to respect our military,” she said.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:33 am……
“ Not really. They have no support.”
That’s the whole key here.
When George Floyd was basically murdered in broad daylight for suspicion of passing a counterfeit bill, about 99% of the country were horrified and agreed justice should be quick and severe.
A golden opportunity presented itself, do everything possible to assure people in the community justice would prevail and calm the outrage and frustration….
but wait, this snuffing out of a life didn’t happen in some rural community of rednecks, it happened in Woke City in front of 3 ethnically different cops, it occurred in a city run by Democrats for decades. This cop previously walked away from numerous serious complaints because the Dem city govt. and police unions are corrupt beyond recognition.
….so they used it to inflame anger, encourage lawlessness and best of all try and find a way to blame Trump. There’s an election to win.
The media, our universities and Dems have created the lions share of this sh*tshow. And the generation that not only believes all their propaganda but thinks it’s not going far enough are looking for new targets.
harkin (b5e7fd) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:33 am__
Confederate generals by contrast are defined almost entirely by evil actions, though some were good military leaders.
Not only that, their actions met the constitutional definition of treason:
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:43 am“Will he/him be wearing teh mask?”
IIRC Mr Godzilla has a built-in sterilization system.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:01 pm_
The white supremacists are so prevalent that you have to go back 160 years to find the ringleaders.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:02 pm_
Everyone in this post who knows anything about Seattle: “Yep, it’s Seattle. This is pretty normal, it’ll be fine.”
Everyone else: “Dear God what are these people doing? It’s crazy. The city will fall. People will die.”
People who know abt Seattle: “Not really? This is just at thing that happens sometimes. Things will go back to normal in a couple of days.”
EE, aghast: “No!”
PWKAS: “Pretty much yes.”
Nic (896fdf) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:04 pmTrump poised to accept GOP nod in Jacksonville, Fla., on 60th anniversary of ‘Ax Handle Saturday’
On Aug. 27, 1960, a mob of 200 white people in Jacksonville, Fla. – organized by the Ku Klux Klan and joined by some of the city’s police officers – chased and beat peaceful civil rights protesters who were trying to integrate downtown lunch counters. The bloody carnage that followed – in which ax handles and baseball bats were used to club African Americans, who sought sanctuary in a church – is remembered as “Ax Handle Saturday.”
A permit had already been approved for the 60th anniversary commemoration of those events when Republican National Committee officials tentatively decided to move their convention festivities from Charlotte to the northern Florida city. ……
…..
The RNC did not respond to a request for comment. …..
…..
More on Ax Handle Saturday.
More than 200 white people wielding baseball bats and ax handles chased African Americans through the streets of downtown Jacksonville, trying to beat them into submission.
It was August 27, 1960, a day that became known as “Ax Handle Saturday.”
The violent attack was in response to peaceful lunch counter demonstrations organized by the Jacksonville Youth Council of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).
The attack began with white people spitting on the protestors and yelling racial slurs at them. When the young demonstrators held their resolve, they were beaten with wooden handles that had not yet had metal ax heads attached.
While the violence was first aimed at the lunch counter demonstrators, it quickly escalated to include any African American in sight of the white mob. Police stood idly by watching the beatings until members of a black street gang called “The Boomerangs” attempted to protect those being attacked. At that point police night sticks joined the baseball bats and ax handles.
Bloodied and battered victims of the vicious beatings fled to a nearby church where they sought refuge and comfort from prayer and song. Eventually the white mob dispersed.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:07 pm….
In 1959, the year before Ax Handle Saturday, Nathan B. Forrest High School opened in Jacksonville, celebrating the memory of the first Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan. …..
…..
It is believed that the Ku Klux Klan organized the violence of Ax Handle Saturday. “The intent was to scare, intimidate, and bring physical harm,” Hurst says. “Many times you could not draw a line between the Klan and law enforcement, because law enforcement were at least accomplices to a lot of the things the Klan did.”
…..
Trump really needs to check his calendar. Or may be he has.
The white supremacists are so prevalent that you have to go back 160 years to find the ringleaders.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:08 pmSome politicians continually remind us of the past and won’t let go.
Or to Wiki
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:08 pmEvery day is “Donald Trump Day”.
It really simplifies things, believe me.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:10 pm“… where they are using armed guards and fences to protect their enclave from being invaded by individuals who don’t share their beliefs.”
This is not actually happening.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:12 pm1. Trump lost the popular vote, and he’s likely to lose it bigger this time around.
2. I have no doubt that I, a five-foot-tall female, have done more physical labor and gotten more dirt under my fingernails than Trump even has, and that my circle of acquaintances is a lot more “average” than his. But keep telling yourself that he stands for the little guy and that everyone who dislikes him must be a snobby elitist.
3. It’s very possible to be against the radical left and still believe it was a bad idea to anoint Donald Trump as the champion of the values and institutions you hope to defend. A lot of average people are now saying, “If Donald Trump represents what you hold dear, I don’t wish to be on your team right now.” That’s just a fact, and it was predictable — and predicted.
Radegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:17 pmYes it is.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:36 pmA lot of average people are now saying, “If Donald Trump represents what you hold dear, I don’t wish to be on your team right now.”
Hate to break it to you, but whenever you get your favorite milquetoast to lead the party, you’ll have the same average people saying the same thing, other than the scant few like you.
beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:38 pmDude, the guy lives a mile from there.
Paul Montagu (b1e7b3) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:43 pmTime123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:08 pm
The interesting thing about that list is the relative obscurity of those groups. I recognize several of them and several of the entries on there aren’t really different groups so much as they are branches of the same group. That’s probably why the confederate generals have to be dug up so often.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:45 pmRadegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:17 pm
A lot of average people are seeing cancel culture, the D’s inability to distance themselves from the riots, defund the police, etc. and also having some concerns.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:49 pm“ In an address to officers Thursday, Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best spoke out about the decision to abandon the 13th Police Precinct and surrounding neighborhood to the Revolutionary Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone and said city leadership has failed the police department. Best says it was not her decision to abandon the station and suggested law and order might return to the area soon.
“You should know, leaving the precinct was not my decision,” she told officers.
“You fought for days to protect [the 13th Precinct]. I asked you to stand on that line. Day in and day out, to be pelted with projectiles, to be screamed at, threatened and in some cases hurt. Then to have a change of course nearly two weeks in, it seems like an insult to you and our community,” she said. “Ultimately the city had other plans for the building and relented to public pressure. I’m angry about how this all came about.””
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/06/11/seattle_police_chief_carmen_best_city_leaders_have_failed.html
harkin (9c4571) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:54 pm__ _
Show me which GOP “milquetoast” pols have provoked the same level of revulsion among lifelong GOP voters as Donald Trump has, and you might have a case.
I recall criticism of G. W. Bush among Republicans, but they weren’t organizing into groups against him, and there weren’t video testimonials from average voters saying he must be defeated.
Nor was there a string of retired military officers and former insiders saying he’s even worse in private than what you see in public (contrary to the fairytale that avid Trumpsters tell).
I’ve voted GOP for a long time, and Trump has tainted the party like no one else before him.
Radegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:00 pmWell, yes. But many of those people are also asking themselves: “Would a Biden presidency promote riots and defunding the police etc. in a way that would lead the nation into a worse condition than another four years of Trump would do?”
And many are saying “No it wouldn’t.” I’m hearing it straight from the mouths of longtime GOP voters, and the polling shows a wider trend. That’s just a fact — regardless of what I might personally answer.
And how is it that we still have cancel culture after 3.5 years of Trump anyway?
Radegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:09 pmU.S. stocks plunge on dire economic forecasts and pandemic resurgence
Wall Street tumbled in a broad sell-off on Thursday, with the Dow plunging well over 5%, as a cautionary economic forecast from the U.S. Federal Reserve and the prospect of a possible resurgence of COVID-19 infections put investors in risk-off mode.
The S&P 500 and the Dow were on course for their worst day since March 18, when markets were shocked by the abrupt economic lockdowns put in place to curb the coronavirus pandemic. The Nasdaq was set to snap a three-day streak of record closing highs.
…..
Deaths of Americans from COVID-19 could reach 200,000 in September, a grim result of the United States’ economic re-opening before getting growth of new cases down to a controllable level, according to a leading health expert.
…..
The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 1,514.08 points, or 5.61%, to 25,475.91, the S&P 500 lost 152.93 points, or 4.79%, to 3,037.21 and the Nasdaq Composite dropped 396.55 points, or 3.96%, to 9,623.80.
All 11 major sectors of the S&P 500 were in the red, with energy and financials suffering the largest percentage drops.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:09 pm…..
Travel-related companies, among the hardest hit by mandated lockdowns, were sharply lower.
…..
This is not actually happening.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:12 pm
Yes it is.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 12:36 pm
I walked there yesterday. Nobody asked me my opinion about anything. I’ve checked some of the articles today. Nobody is stopping pedestrians, though some people are apparently turning away cars with people who aren’t local residents. I agree the latter is a problem.
But it’s not an ideological border control. Unlike, I should note, what sometimes happens at the U.S. border with Canada.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:11 pmWhen Obama was elected, some people thought the New Black Panthers or the Maoists would basically take over. That didn’t quite happen.
Trump has been enthusiastically supported by neo-Nazis and other unsavory fringe groups, but Trump defenders are quick to say it’s wrong to judge him on that basis, and they’ll point out that the fringe groups aren’t really running the country now. But some Trump defenders seem to be quite certain that a vote for Biden — hardly the most radical among the Dem primary candidates — is really a vote for Antifa. No it isn’t.
Radegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:33 pmLol. Ignore the barricades placed. Ignore the guys walking around like they’re military with weapons. It’s okay. You’ll be safe. Go at night next time. Enjoy yourself.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:34 pmYou own that Victor.
I’m sure you’ll claim it’s just like Occupy Wall Street which I did visit and it was full of degenerates and wannabes who thought they were getting free drugs and sex while hating the man. Till they raped and robbed people.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:37 pmSay hello to logan for me.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:42 pmhttps://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/06/10/capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-first-incident-self-appointed-police-violence/
Just some harmless kids having fun. Threatening to blow someone’s brains out while having a gun. No big deal.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:42 pmReports of looting in the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:
BREAKING: Steven Mnuchin is now flat-out REFUSING to disclose the businesses receiving $500,000,000,000 in bailout funds, claiming the info is “confidential”
4.5 MILLION businesses received government funds. Zero transparency.
https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1271099152706011137?s=20
And NJRob
Sure there are barricades. It keeps out cars. Do people walk around with guns? I didn’t see them yesterday but perhaps they exist, exercising their Second Amendment rights like the Michigan militia. Is it your contention that displaying a weapon is inherently threatening?
I am headed off to look right now. I promise to honestly report the details of my interrogation at the border.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:43 pmhttps://www.city-journal.org/antifa-seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone
Just some fun and games. No big deal.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:46 pmShow me which GOP “milquetoast” pols have provoked the same level of revulsion among lifelong GOP voters as Donald Trump has, and you might have a case.
Maybe Trump will do as bad in 2020 as McCain and Romney did, or leave the country in as dire shape as Bush II did.
beer ‘n pretzels (023920) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:55 pmI look forward to your firsthand reporting of what you see there, Victor.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:56 pmI’d rather he’d gone at night.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/11/2020 @ 2:06 pmThe question is whether their behavior in office would have prompted the same disgust. And the answer is: certainly not.
Also: there’s essentially zero chance that Trump would have done better electorally in 2008 than McCain did, or better in 2012 than Romney did.
I remember when Republicans were generally eager to point out how the actions of Democrats — including Obama — had created the mortgage crisis and then blocked reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac after Bush had repeatedly tried to get Congress to act on the matter. Then most of the party sold its soul to Donald J. Trump and began to vilify Bush.
Radegunda (89f220) — 6/11/2020 @ 2:14 pmThey are also insisting that anything bad that’s happening under Trump’s watch is not his fault at all. Because the rules most always exonerate Trump.
Rip@84
I give the RNC a pass on that. I have lived in Florida since 1968, and this is the first time I have ever heard of Ax Handle Day.
Kishnevi (4a7413) — 6/11/2020 @ 2:18 pmOT but this seemed the best place to drop this
https://amp.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article243395651
Remember those hairdressers in Missouri who were working while having the virus?
Well, no one got infected from them. Authorities are crediting masks.
Kishnevi (4a7413) — 6/11/2020 @ 2:23 pmSo as promised I am back.
I approached by means of the park, to the south, in which there were various small groups playing or sitting on a lawn mostly uncut, because of the virus – related Parks slowdown.
I went in further to where there were more people and tents. Nobody stopped me to ask my bona fides. Instead I listened as a pleasant young black man was interviewed by a local public t.v. station standing in front of a community garden that had been planted in the lawn. He was explaining the symbolic nature of the garden, showing the interest in using public land for gardens and farms, noting his history in New York growing up in a food desert. The garden itself looked pretty good, with lots of donated tomato plants.
The garden was surrounded by about 30 tents on that part of the lawn, where people were camped.
Farther in I walked down to a street barricade, where a car was leaving the site through an opening. At the opening where four skinny guys. Unarmed but with backpacks. I didn’t stop to ask but my impression was they were controlling car entrances and exits.
Further on was a Conversation Table, where four people were chatting earnestly. Up the street, at 12th, the intersection was crowd of people listening to speakers. I stood at a distance, only for a short time listening to a guy who said he came up from Phoenix, leading nonviolent protests there, who talked about the need for leaders.
Barricades on 12th look more permanent.
I walked down Pine street to where people were painting a large BLACK LIVES MATTER sign on the street, like in D.C. Along the street were tables where there was food and some supplies.
I left the area and walked one block south where a local ice cream place Molly Moon’s had just opened that day, and bought a Odessa Mint chocolate brownie scoop in a sugar cone. Delicious!
I walked back up and then through the park again.
At no point was I stopped by anybody and asked anything. The scene was full of a lot of people coming and going, including parents on bikes with their children riding behind. I saw nobody with a gun.
Now for the sceptics. I’ve no doubt the scene will change at night, and the goal of guarding peripheries will become problematic.
And it’s true a couple of nights ago somebody painting graffitti got into a fight with some self appointed guardians, one of whom likes to yell in a microphone.
But I remind myself that in Forks WA because of rumors of Antifa, a biracial family found themselves hassled at a store and then barricaded into a campground by local patriots. And in Snohomish, because of rumors of Antifa! lots of guys decided to hang out at a local demonstration with their guns on display and hassled one of the marchers.
I don’t think this will last, as the enthusiasm needed to keep it going dies away, and the usual infighting that occurs in small group democracy emerges. But to pretend that right now, as I sit here typing, it’s some kind of post apocalyptic landscape of warlords and fighting is delusional.
Look up the history of other attempts like Christiana in Copenhagen, or People’s Park. Sometimes it work. Sometimes it doesn’t. But calling in the police and bulldozers, like our president wants, doesn’t seem much of an answer.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 3:10 pmOh and again, about that anti-graffiti fight. I’ve lived in the area for a number of years. People who tag buildings at 3 am sometimes get hassled. My guess is, given the choice, they’d prefer the hassler was an oafish but well meaning member of the local militia than the SPD. For one thing, the SPD has qualified immunity if they break his glasses.
I think people on both sides want this to be a Huge Deal, a Paris Commune designed to lead to world liberation, or a Little Somalia of warlords and gangs and fear. It’s not either. It’s an experiment in how long a piece of urban ground can get along with a bunch of volunteers trying to run things instead of the police and local government because a lot of people are really pissed off at the police.
It will almost certainly fail. But seeing it as an existential threat is silly. Treating it as a pestilence that must be crushed would be a crime in itself.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 3:25 pmIn short, Victor, no worse than any 60 acres, contiguous or non-contiguous, chosen at random in New Jersey.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 3:30 pmVictor,
Your dispatch from ground zero is much appreciated! I wish professional journalists were as eloquent.
norcal (a5428a) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:14 pmNorcal,
Thanks! One correction (I wish this platform allowed corrections to comments). The park is to the north of the CHAZ, but I was approaching it from farther north, so I thought of it as south. I mention this only to head off those who closely examine the map and conclude I was talking about some other place altogether.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:50 pmVictor.
You walked around in Daylight and saw no one with a gun. So, who is policing the area? Who is called when there’s violence or theft? Not the Police. WHere are the people who own the shops? Are they open for business or closed down?
And who is monitoring for masks and Social Distancing? Anyone? Bueller, Bueller, Anyone?
Yes, I’m not surprised that you didn’t stroll in, and see gang rapes, murder, and pirates torturing people for hidden Gold.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:56 pm#84 what in the world does jacksonville 60 years ago, have to do with 2020? Nothing. This is one step above spam.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:59 pm#83 yep. I personally don’t care about Seattle. The progressives there don’t care, and if someone gets Killed, raped or robbed by Antifa they’re usually progressives who are willing to “take one for the team”.
NYC used to have 2,000 murders a year, and about 49% of NYC was cool with it, and Hated Gulliani for changing it. Seattle is the same way. Let them stew in their progressive juices.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:03 pmIf its obvious, why doesn’t your analysis ever take account of it?
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:06 pmhttps://mobile.twitter.com/MayorJenny/status/1271226494858129409
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:32 pmOne Republican signed on to Rep. Amash’s End Qualified Immunity bill. It’s the first tri-partisan bill ever introduced in the House.
https://reason.com/2020/06/11/justin-amash-tom-mcclintock-republican-cosponsor-tripartisan-support-to-end-qualified-immunity/
Meanwhile, Trump is hosting a fund raising dinner in Dallas, at over $500,000 per couple, to discuss police procedure and race relations. He did not invite the top cops in Dallas county, the chief, the sheriff, and the attorney general, all of whom are African Americans. Nor did he invite the three representatives from the districts in Dallas county, all of whom are Democrats.
Everyone who attends the dinner, for a talk and a souvenir photo, will be tested for coronavirus by White House medical staff. This when the majority of Texans don’t have access to such tests.
So you can forget about holding a rally, which requires signing a disclaimer about CoVid-19, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, or moving the RNC to the site of the Axe Handle Massacre in Florida. The optics on this are far worse. He wants to discuss policing and race relations, but he excludes the top cops and the representatives because of their race and/or political affiliation?
Now Trump wants to issue an executive order. Please, this man-child is a dunderhead.
At least Amash is showing real leadership. Would that he would reconsider his decision not to run for president.
All Trump is capable of is fanning the flames of division, which are burning this country to the ground.
Oh, he is also losing the trade wars.
https://reason.com/2020/06/11/trump-is-still-losing-his-own-trade-war-2/
Tariff Man and Lobster King, what a joke. Discounting a pandemic, calling it a hoax; a ruined economy with plummeting stock market and real estate value; over 112,000 dead people; protests around the world, rioting, looting and arson on the streets; rising unemployment; businesses closed that will not reopen; the BLS declaring a recession; and all he can talk about is deploying the military against civilian protesters?
Oh, yeah, that’s your “law and order” president.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:59 pmOne of my friends is doing his live stream from Seattle.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:08 pmVictor,
Thanks so much for filling us in. I really appreciate it. It reminds me of the Occupy crowds. It seems like others before, this too will die out on its own. Do you know if SPD will be patrolling the area at night, or is everyone on their own, or under the eye of whoever has the biggest gun? Please keep updating us.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:08 pmRcocean
1) who is policing the area? I don’t know. Like I said there were some people standing at the barricades who looked like they felt they had some official duty, but I don’t know whether they thought that extended more broadly.
2) Who is called for violence and theft? At this point the police say they are still answering 911 calls, but I don’t know how often that happens or what happens when it does. Local reporting doesn’t note violence and theft during the daytime anyway, but then again there’s food lying around for free and the businesses are mostly boarded up, for confinement reasons.
3) The businesses within the CHAZ seem mostly closed down. The ones just outside appear to be just opening recently. As noted it was the first day for the ice cream shop. I assume some of the businesses inside would probably have tried started opening by now but are waiting, e.g. a large bar (Stout) on a corner.
4) Most people were wearing masks, but I didn’t see anybody “monitoring” for masks or social distance. Then again I don’t see this anywhere else either, not even in grocery stores, at least consistently.
5) My comments so far on this thread were begun in response to the claim by NJRob that people were being barred from the zone because of their ideology. So far as I knew this wasn’t true and to day it was still not true. I make no claims to a comprehensive idea of what’s going on otherwise, but I suggest if you are really interested you check out some local news sources, like the Seattle Times, or Crosscut, or the Stranger, instead of relying only on video clips circulated in conservative media.
Dana
You’re quite welcome. And yes, it’s kind of an Occupy vibe, complete with exhaustive group meetings designed to reach collective decision. I heard on the news today that at one such meeting somebody trying to take it over and livestream was forcibly ejected, but I don’t know what that came to, or how obnoxious the person was.
My impression is that the SPD will not be patrolling inside the CHAZ, so whatever happens in the night will depend on how the CHAZ can handle it. For what it’s worth there are rumors that Proud Boys or 3 Percenters and other such want to come and make trouble, which explains a little of the gun toting paranoia. I think people are still looking around and trying to figure out what to do with it, including city leaders. The next few days will show the direction. It could peter out, but you get the sense some people are starting to entrench.
Just to repeat myself, I think the calls for militarized reoccupation will just lead to more actual physical violence then letting things go for awhile. My own hope is that there’s a long period of reintegration and negotiation. But obviously the situation is hostage to chance; all it would take is a spark, some interior violence that the CHAZ couldn’t control, and the city feels it has to intervene and some of the CHAZZers feel they have to oppose.
I’m tempted to go back and look at the history of Christiana in Copenhagen. It’s pretty peaceful now, 30-40 years later, but I’d guess the early years weren’t easy. But then again, it was a part of the town off from the center. The CHAZ is more central, and it contains a lot of private property with private property owners who eventually will start to get antsy.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:30 pmAdalynn is back home safe and sound – thanks to my friends for riding shotgun.
mg (8cbc69) — 6/12/2020 @ 3:23 amIt really is getting to be a shiffhole country when one needs armed civilians to get a baby to a hospital and back safely.
No masks but plenty of ammo.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
The who had their head up their ass, cdc was likewise focused on obesity and racism, mr lazy pants came up with a flawed theory which underlay the lockdowns, everybody over here was chasing this ukrainian ouvno now the same mob which has been recruiting since the occupy days is razing the country like locusts.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/12/2020 @ 5:38 amGood to hear, mg.
nk (1d9030) — 6/12/2020 @ 5:46 amIm sure fahrenholt will get right on this
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/11/the-complex-funding-and-ideology-of-black-lives-matter/
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/12/2020 @ 6:19 amKnow the signs: How to tell if your grandmother has become an antifa agent:
More.
nk (1d9030) — 6/12/2020 @ 6:54 amhttps://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/06/12/maga-chaz-first-walls-go-forced-deportations/
Deportations from Seattle. Don’t know how you missed this.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/12/2020 @ 7:25 amhttps://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-americans-oppose-defund-police-movement-key-goals/story?id=71202300
Oh look, a majority of the democrat party wants to defund the police. Replace the police with their terror groups perhaps?
Voting for the left is voting for the destruction of the United States of America.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/12/2020 @ 10:41 amMy comments so far on this thread were begun in response to the claim by NJRob that people were being barred from the zone because of their ideology.
How could anyone possibly know what your ideology was?
Were you wearing a Police Lives Matter shirt?
beer ‘n pretzels (66c863) — 6/12/2020 @ 10:57 amSure, 3%ers, Oathkeepers, Boogaloo Bois, League of the South, and Identity Evropa.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/12/2020 @ 11:03 amMy comments so far on this thread were begun in response to the claim by NJRob that people were being barred from the zone because of their ideology.
How could anyone possibly know what your ideology was?
Were you wearing a Police Lives Matter shirt?
beer ‘n pretzels (66c863) — 6/12/2020 @ 10:57 am
I took NJRobs’ comment to be that there was active questioning at the barricades regarding ideology, or signs that people were generally being ejected for ideological reasons. i didn’t see that.
That said, I don’t know what would happen if you came in with a MAGA hat and a Police Lives Matter T-shirt. My guess is that most people would ignore you but at least a few would come and argue with you about your viewpoint. Some would probably yell at you to leave. Some would admonish the yellers to not be violent.
All this is speculation of course. I’ve been listening to the local news and nobody’s reported anything like that, but perhaps nobody has tried.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/12/2020 @ 11:10 am#132
NJRob – thanks for the video, though unfortunately I couldn’t play it. From what I could tell this sounded like a report I heard on local news that somebody trying to livestream a meeting was pushed out.
It doesnt’ surprise me that people who come and hang out in the meetings (as opposed to just strolling around) and express unpopular views will get yelled out and told to leave. They’re a touchy bunch.
On the other hand, based on local news, most people in the neighborhood prefer the current situation than the three or four days of conflict, tear gas and flash bangs. The police fired point blank into a crowd at one point.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/12/2020 @ 11:16 amLemme ax you, comrades, now that we’ve had a couple of days to think about it: What makes Jenny Durkan, Carmen Best, and the rest of Seattle’s City Hall more worthy of your sympathy and support than the CHAZ occupiers? Or all the rest of Seattle, for that matter, present company excepted?
nk (1d9030) — 6/12/2020 @ 7:56 pmI just note for the record on this, that this morning the Seattle Times has a story about how Fox News digitally manipulated images to appear to show armed men standing at a barricade in front of the CHAZ, when actually the images are a mixture of early photos from the riots a week ago. Fox has withdrawn the images.
But Fox also keeps repeating stories about businesspeople being extorted by the CHAZ, when those stories have been shown to be false.
All of which is to say that if anybody reading this really wants to know more about the CHAZ they should read local media in addition to whatever right wing site they prefer.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/13/2020 @ 7:44 amYou’ve done a valuable service for us here, Victor. Thank you!
nk (1d9030) — 6/13/2020 @ 7:55 amFor local media, The Stranger has been covering events pretty well, from the beginning. The Seattle Times uncovered FoxNews’ FakeNews digitally manipulated images.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/13/2020 @ 8:56 amI’m heading down there Monday or Tuesday and I’ll report what I see, with unmanipulated photos.
And thanks to you too, Paul.
nk (1d9030) — 6/13/2020 @ 9:27 amNk – Thanks for your kind words. I decided to put in one last post for any lonely souls still reading this thread. I should point out, if it was not obvious already, that I’m a liberal Democratic party voting guy who will vote against Trump this fall – i.e. I have biases. If you want to know more about what’s going on in the CHAZ you should read other sources, as Paul Montagu suggests. Just remember that FOX news right now is not particularly trustworthy.
Today, I went back. The place has changed and grown, just in the last couple of days. Again I came in from the north, from the park. Because it was a Saturday, there were a lot of people strolling about.
In the middle of the park area there were four or five people cutting wood and putting together forms. I asked them what they were doing and they said “Secret Art Project”.
Note that this was in an area just outside CHAZ itself, in the part of the park that I don’t think is considered occupied. On the other hand, there were also a couple of tents on the far north edge of the park, which otherwise wouldn’t be allowed, indicating the idea of CHAZ boundaries is becoming a little fluid. At a corner of the park is a playground, and children were playing on the swings.
The real big difference though, is the area around the community gardens. This is about a half acre of grass land sloping down from the main park area to the north, and between the park and a toilet, shelter and community room and then, further south, the ballfields. Last time I was there, on the half acre there were about 30 tents surrounding two smallish community gardens. Today it was 40-50 tents crowding around 4 round community garden plots, each with a low fence. It really had the feeling of a permanent encampment. There were also a couple of cars on the periphery now, parked on the grass, one with a tent on a platform on the roof.
One more note on conservative media. On Redstate right now is a post containing a tweet with a video of some guy rolling around in the dirt of the community garden, with the caption
“A homeless Chad has taken over the garden in CHAZ and destroyed it. “
You might think this means that the gardens are currently destroyed. Nope, from the looks of it this happened while the gardens were being built. So, right now, they’re fine; though I still think that as a location these gardens will only work when surrounded by a village of tents which raises its own questions about converting public park land into something else.
In the main street areas, there were a lot of people. Thousands probably. There was a big crowd up at 12th and Pine, sitting on the street, listening to speakers. Elsewhere people were strolling about. One business inside CHAZ has opened, a Mexican restaurant that had people lined up inside. But mostly the businesses, bars and restaurants, were still closed.
There are a lot of places giving away snack food and basic supplies, as well as a medical tent. Almost everybody was wearing masks, but there wasn’t a lot of social distancing.
CHAZ still can’t quite decide if it’s a street fair or a political protest. The organizers want it to be the latter, but all the tourists wandering around taking pictures kind of push it to the former. Where this all goes I don’t know.
But one more thing. I didn’t see anybody carrying a gun.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/13/2020 @ 5:03 pmVictor thank you.
Kishnevi (520c45) — 6/13/2020 @ 5:16 pm