Patterico's Pontifications

6/10/2020

Trump Campaign to Hold First Rally In Tulsa On Juneteenth

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:55 pm

[guest post by Dana]

As noted earlier this week, Trump is set to resume campaign rallies this month. Unfortunately, the clueless campaign has decided that the fist rally will take place in Tulsa, on June 19:

President Donald Trump will host his first rally in months next week in Oklahoma, and he has plans to visit four other states in the coming weeks as his campaign prepares to relaunch in-person rallies, he said Wednesday.

The first rally will take place in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on June 19. Ahead of a meeting with African American leaders at the White House, Trump said he also plans to visit Florida, North Carolina, Arizona and Texas. The President has not held a rally since early March, when all in-person campaign events halted due to the coronavirus pandemic.

“We’re going to start our rallies back up now. We’ve had a tremendous run at rallies,” Trump said.

The president made the announcement at a roundtable with African American leaders at the White House, hailing the “great job” that Oklahoma has done combating coronavirus. As of Tuesday, Oklahoma had recorded 353 coronavirus deaths and 7,363 positive cases.

So what’s the big deal, you might ask? Well, June 19 is not just another day in the year. June 19 is known as Juneteenth, or Freedom Day:

Juneteenth is the oldest nationally celebrated commemoration of the ending of slavery in the United States. Dating back to 1865, it was on June 19th that the Union soldiers, led by Major General Gordon Granger, landed at Galveston, Texas with news that the war had ended and that the enslaved were now free. Note that this was two and a half years after President Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation – which had become official January 1, 1863. The Emancipation Proclamation had little impact on the Texans due to the minimal number of Union troops to enforce the new Executive Order. However, with the surrender of General Lee in April of 1865, and the arrival of General Granger’s regiment, the forces were finally strong enough to influence and overcome the resistance.

Juneteenth was made a legal holiday in Texas in 1980. The holiday honors African American freedom and achievements.

And as far as Tulsa being the designated site for the rally, Tulsa has an ugly history involving black residents. In 1921, the town was the site of a horrific massacre of black residents:

During the Tulsa Race Massacre (also known as the Tulsa Race Riot), which occurred over 18 hours on May 31-June 1, 1921, a white mob attacked residents, homes and businesses in the predominantly black Greenwood neighborhood of Tulsa, Oklahoma. The event remains one of the worst incidents of racial violence in U.S. history, and one of the least-known: News reports were largely squelched, despite the fact that hundreds of people were killed and thousands left homeless.

Cause of the massacre:

On May 30, 1921, a young black teenager named Dick Rowland entered an elevator at the Drexel Building, an office building on South Main Street. At some point after that, the young white elevator operator, Sarah Page, screamed; Rowland fled the scene. The police were called, and the next morning they arrested Rowland.

By that time, rumors of what supposedly happened on that elevator had circulated through the city’s white community. A front-page story in the Tulsa Tribune that afternoon reported that police had arrested Rowland for sexually assaulting Page.

Read a detailed account of the massacre here. It was a hideous event that seems to have faded into the historical past.

So what to make of Trump’s campaign selecting Tulsa and Juneteenth for his rally? While the reports make it clear that he discussed his plans with leaders of the black community and received their seal of approval, it is unclear on who those leaders were, and whether they were Trump loyalists or members of the larger community. I have no idea what the behind-the-scenes talks were like, but from the outside looking in, it seems that, at the very least, it’s a bit of a misstep to couple that specific date and location for a Trump rally. This especially as our nation is currently in the midst of a painful season as we work out difficult racial issues, and how law enforcement treats black Americans. I just don’t see how this will be taken as anything but an intentional provocation by those outside of the Trump sphere. But I really don’t know. What I do know, though, is that I am fresh out of any benefit of the doubt these days.

–Dana

Comments (99)

99 Responses to “Trump Campaign to Hold First Rally In Tulsa On Juneteenth”

What do you think?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:55 pm
I think fist should be first.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:03 pm
Will David Duke be there?
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:09 pm
I think it’s the opposite of clueless. Trump needs to fan the rednecked coals of his base back to white hot welding heat.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:12 pm
I think Donnie has tried to strip mine the Reagan legacy for usable grist, and this is the closest analogue Stephen Miller can come up with to when Ronnie went to Philadelphia, Mississippi for a little State’s Rights dog-whistling.
john (cd2753) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:17 pm
From a Major in the Tulsa Police force in 1921…no, Saturday.

Maj. Travis Yates made his jaw-dropping comments on a talk radio podcast earlier this week. Discussing statistics that show black people are far more likely to be shot by police than white people, Yates said: “If a certain group is committing more crimes, more violent crimes, and law enforcement’s having to come into more contact with them, that number is going to be higher. Who in the world in their right mind would think that our shootings should be right along the U.S. Census lines? That’s insanity. All of the research says we’re shooting African-Americans about 24 percent less than we probably ought to be, based on the crimes being committed.” Speaking about systematic abuse of power and racism in U.S. police forces, he said: “That just doesn’t exist.”

No police officer should be talking about “we’re shooting African-Americans about 24 percent less than we probably ought to be” Shooting anyone should be the last resort. This just goes back to the Rambo’ization of the Police force, they aren’t Navy Seals. Tulsa, or Minneapolis or Vidor Texas aren’t the front line of some sort of war zone, it’s main street in America. This is the kind of crap that comes from people who haven’t actually been in a war zone. Oh, he’s a SWAT guy right, he did write a book “The Courageous Police Leader: A Survival Guide for Combating Cowards, Chaos, and Lies” uh…

Yates is a Major with the Department currently assigned to the Records Division which is primarily staffed with civilian employees. Yates’ statements during his appearances on this show are not made while on duty and are neither official representations of the Department nor of his fellow officers.

You can watch to this moron go on about it from his own mouth. Again, from Rambo of the records department.

I listened to this guy on the entire morning show recording, and he’s a conspiracy delusional nutbag.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:27 pm
Sometimes memes are just true.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:49 pm
Is something Comrade President 44.5 learn in Moscow, Comrade Colonel?
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:52 pm
Is something Comrade President 44.5 learn in Moscow, Comrade Colonel?

Heh!!
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:56 pm
What do you think?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:55 pm

I don’t think this is how you get trolls.
I don’t think this is why we can’t have anything nice.
I don’t think this is the POTUS we deserve.
I don’t think I might be in denial.
felipe (023cc9) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:57 pm
I ~~don’t~~ think this is how you get trolls.
I ~~don’t~~ think this is why we can’t have anything nice.
I ~~don’t~~ think this is the POTUS we deserve.
I ~~don’t~~ think I might be in denial.
felipe (023cc9) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:57 pm

Is that better?
felipe (023cc9) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:00 pm
One of my first political memories was Carter and the MSM accusing Reagan of being Racist because he opened his campaign in Mississippi, because why would anyone do that unless they were a secret KKK remember?

So, this is just more of the same. Tulsa somehow is linked to some racist incident from 100 years ago, so therefore Trump is racist. yeah.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:20 pm
Will the PA play “Okie From Muskogee”? Bet you it does.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:20 pm
Senator Joe Biden voted for Sen Byrd for Majority Leader
Sen Byrd had been a KKK Member.

Therefore, Joe Biden Supports the KKK. Makes about as much sense.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:21 pm
Tulsa has an “S” in it. So does Slavery. Fascinating no?
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:23 pm
My mom “messaged” me this a minute ago.

Ohio State Sen. Steve Huffman, R-Tipp City

“My point is I understand African Americans have a higher incidence of chronic conditions and it makes them more susceptible to death from COVID. But why it doesn’t make them more susceptible to just get COVID. Could it just be that African Americans or the colored population do not wash their hands as well as other groups or wear a mask or do not socially distance themselves? That could be the explanation of the higher incidence?”

Ohio Legislative Black Caucus President Stephanie Howse, D-Cleveland, said Huffman’s word choice and question represent systemic racism.

He highlights what racism is from a systematic perspective. He’s a full legislator but beyond that, professionally, he’s a doctor. When we talk about the health disparities that happen because black folks aren’t believed when they’re actually hurt, they aren’t given the treatment that they need. Do you think that someone who acknowledges the ‘coloreds’ is going to give the love and care that people need when they come through those doors?” said Howse, who attended the hearing.

She also said Huffman implied that African Americans are dirty and not smart enough to wash their hands.

Huffman said Wednesday that Howse misunderstood his question.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:24 pm
So do strawman and gaslighting. I’d rather speculate how many of the women there will be wearing Confederate flag panties.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:26 pm
Tulsa somehow is linked to some racist incident from 100 years ago

Tulsa has an “S” in it. So does Slavery. Fascinating no?

Yeah, what was it that happened, maybe it was explained above, maybe.

Hmm, what could it be, somehow it’s weirdly linked to Tulsa, a thing, but what, and why, who knows?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:28 pm
No Sign Of Antifa So Far In Justice Department Cases Brought Over Unrest
…..
NPR has reviewed court documents of 51 individuals facing federal charges in connection with the unrest. As of Tuesday morning, none is alleged to have links to the antifa movement.

Of the cases brought so far, 20 involve allegations related to arson; 16 involve the illegal possession of a firearm, more often than not by a felon; another eight people face charges related to inciting a riot or civil disorder.
……

The single instance in which an extremist group is mentioned in court documents is a case against three Nevada men. Federal prosecutors allege the trio belong to the right-wing Boogaloo movement that wants to bring about a civil war. The men have been charged with plotting violence during Las Vegas protests.
……
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:40 pm
Given that Trump is the smartest man in the world and the world’s foremost expert on absolutely everything, including the Tulsa Race Massacre and Juneteenth, it’s simply not possible that he didn’t know. And even if he didn’t know, he certainly can’t say that he didn’t know, since we all know that Trump is literally incapable of uttering the words “I didn’t know.” He likes to maintain the illusion that he knows everything, just as he likes to maintain the illusion that he has a full, healthy head of hair, a svelte, athletic body, a glowing natural tan, a charismatic nature and isn’t the least bit thin-skinned, petty and childish. I’d have to go with Juneteenth and Tulsa as being “deliberately provocative”.

And it’s going to work, too, when Trump claims it’s an entirely innocent coincidence, the press attacks him for his insensitivity, Trump once again gets to claim he’s the victim of the lying, hateful Fake News industry, and then the press is going to make his claims of being a victim their top story of the day to make sure Trump’s message is as widely distributed as possible. Trump may not be much else besides a world-class con man, but he is a world-class troll and the media just can’t help themselves, they have this sick compulsion to feed the troll.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:41 pm
NPR has reviewed court documents of 51 individuals facing federal charges in connection with the unrest. As of Tuesday morning, none is alleged to have links to the antifa movement.

Because 76 years later, there aren’t many D-Day survivors left.
beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:51 pm
rcocean,

Did you even read the post and consider the points, or did you just reflexively jump to defending Trump?

I’m going to post by conclusion here, because I think you must have missed it:

So what to make of Trump’s campaign selecting Tulsa and Juneteenth for his rally? While the reports make it clear that he discussed his plans with leaders of the black community and received their seal of approval, it is unclear on who those leaders were, and whether they were Trump loyalists or members of the larger community. I have no idea what the behind-the-scenes talks were like, but from the outside looking in, it seems that, at the very least, it’s a bit of a misstep to couple that specific date and location for a Trump rally. This especially as our nation is currently in the midst of a painful season as we work out difficult racial issues, and how law enforcement treats black Americans. I just don’t see how this will be taken as anything but an intentional provocation by those outside of the Trump sphere. But I really don’t know. What I do know, though, is that I am fresh out of any benefit of the doubt these days.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:57 pm
16,

FFS.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:58 pm
Trump may not be much else besides a world-class con man, but he is a world-class troll

So is Trump trolling the media, and everyone else?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:59 pm
slavery in oklahoma wasn’t done on black people by white people

it was done by american indians on black people

this is obvious to anyone who is willing to do the analysis

Please show me where the Indians did the thing, in 1921, in Tulsa. The specific reason for this post. I’ll wait.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:03 pm
Klink, Happyfeet has a point. During the Civil War and into the 1880s, Oklahoma was Indian Territory. There were no whites around to own slaves. And the Indians did have slaves.
Kishnevi (c5cd7d) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:12 pm
It’s possible Trump wants to make a big deal as part of his effort to show he’s good for blacks.
Kishnevi (c5cd7d) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:14 pm
They had Confederate generals, too. Ok, one that I know of, Stand Watie.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:14 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:27 pm

This just goes back to the Rambo’ization of the Police force

This is just you taking a statistical statement and twisting it into something else.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:20 pm
Klink, Happyfeet has a point. During the Civil War and into the 1880s, Oklahoma was Indian Territory. There were no whites around to own slaves. And the Indians did have slaves.

Yes, and…Oklahoma wasn’t a state until 1907, and…The Indian Territories were acquired by the United States in the Louisiana Purchase, and…The US could, and did, kick the Indians out of wherever they were whenever they wanted, hence many of the Native Americans, specifically the Five Civilized Tribes, were from Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and…slavery was legal in the Southern States then, and what?

Tulsa, June 1st 1921, has meaning. June 19th is a day that has special significance to Black people, because, see above.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:20 pm
This is just you taking a statistical statement and twisting it into something else.

You could always read his words, listen to the words, or watch him say the words. He said the words, and words have meaning, the stat was his, not mine. They have no need to be “twisted” they are plain, in English. You can listen to all of them in order for 28 minutes.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:23 pm
Maybe hes got local products the Gap Band lined up…with Sheriff David Clarke in full urban cowboy get up.
urbanleftbehind (aaf339) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:30 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:20 pm

So, no political rallies on June 1st, the 19th, or ever in Tulsa? Is this across the board or is this one of those things were some groups can’t do things but others can?

Just so I’m following along; we can’t have political rallies on Freedom Day because it’s a day we’re supposed to honor black Americans? So, we give up freedoms to honor people who had there’s taken away but just on the day they heard about it in a town in Texas.

We can’t have a rally in Tulsa because of 1921. That means we can’t have a rally in Atlanta because of 1906 or between September 22-24. It might be simpler to just start making a list of acceptable places and dates. It seems like it would be much smaller.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:36 pm
“So, no political rallies on June 1st, the 19th, or ever in Tulsa? Is this across the board or is this one of those things were some groups can’t do things but others can?”

I for one am eager to see what Trump and reported speechwriter and noted white nationalist Stephen Miller have to say to the black community on the anniversary of a massacre.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:41 pm
So, no political rallies on June 1st, the 19th, or ever in Tulsa? Is this across the board or is this one of those things were some groups can’t do things but others can?

You’re gaslighting something that no one said, and ignoring reality to do it, its silly and obvious.

History exists, context exists, reality exists. That the first place Trump holds a rally, on June 19th, is Tulsa Oklahoma, with what is happening in the United States now, it matters.

Again, its not a dog whistle if everyone hears it.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:43 pm
Trump can have political rallies whenever he wants, wherever he wants. Just don’t go telling us that picking June 19, in Tulsa, Oklahoma to have one is not performing an unnatural sexual act on his racist-ass Southern chicken-pluckers.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:43 pm
Unhygienic, too. The particular sexual act, I mean.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:44 pm
We can’t have a rally in Tulsa because of 1921. That means we can’t have a rally in Atlanta because of 1906 or between September 22-24. It might be simpler to just start making a list of acceptable places and dates.

I remember the first time my kid tried that routine. Didn’t work for him, either.

Please, feel free to ignore the obvious along with the cultists. Nobody else is. Which, I guess, leads us to Donnie’s recent attempt to bully CNN into sharpie-ing up polling for him. I guess he confused them with NOAA?
john (cd2753) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:55 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:43 pm

You’re gaslighting

I don’t think gaslighting means what you think it means. Am I really manipulating you to question your own sanity?

I’m exaggerating the position to see what it looks like at the limits. I would’ve gotten away with it if it hadn’t been for you meddling kids.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:04 pm
News from seattle

https://youtu.be/x7DpMq6hbJY
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:14 pm
You mean like using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation? You’re efforts are juvenile and pusillanimous, so they don’t work very well, though.

Denying reality doesn’t change it.

The truth doesn’t care about our needs or wants. It doesn’t care about our governments, our ideologies, our religions. It will lie in wait, for all time. Where I once would fear the cost of truth, now I only ask: What is the cost of lies?

or.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:15 pm
New york health department that said go to chinatown, thats an authority now
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:19 pm
Professor lock down lazy pants set these rules he couldnt abide by, how cam mere mortals.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:22 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:15 pm

I’ve already agreed that you got me. You’ve convinced me that things like reductio ad absurdum and the logical extreme belong to a reality you’ve rejected.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:28 pm
I’ve already agreed that you got me.

Alas, me thinks that you shall just continue shooting baskets in the 3rd inning so you can score the winning touchdown.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:33 pm
Doing his best chip dillard impression

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/06/10/washington-governor-inslee-doesnt-know-about-occupied-seattle-encampment/
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:35 pm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:33 pm

Probably. I’ve got to keep you motivated to get that BPT2 working.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:41 pm
Nothing to see here

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1270808264452669440
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:50 pm
john (cd2753) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:55 pm

I remember the first time my kid tried that routine. Didn’t work for him, either.

There are limits to the principle but your kid sounds pretty smart.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:07 pm
Trump’s rally in Tulsa will be an affront to decency for one reason and one reason only: Trump will open his mouth.

The rest seems like unimportant details to me.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:22 pm
Jessica Fletcher
@heckyessica

Seattle’s “#autonomouszone” was created to be a self-sustaining, police free zone.

In one day, they ran out of food, and a warlord declared himself the new police. Violence (now w/o accountability) ensues. Well done everyone.
__ _

Garrett Ham
@garrettham_esq
·
If only we had every other example of anarchy to help us predict this outcome.
__ _

Stephen L. Miller
@redsteeze

Real Warlordism has never been tried.
_
harkin (9c4571) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:42 pm
Satire is not merely dead its gone zombie
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:47 pm
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article243423496.html

How many cops have been shot, murdered, run over, attacked, beaten since these riots instigated by the left and the media have begun?

Anyone?
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:51 pm
Tulsa to Seattle.
1,986 miles via I-84W.
Number of squirrels unknown.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:57 pm
How many cops have been shot, murdered, run over, attacked, beaten since these riots instigated by the left and the media have begun?

Anyone

Where was this riot? Because so far as anyone can tell, there was none. Or is this like the booger boys in Vegas, or Seattle, or Santa Cruz. Correlation does not imply causation, or we’d only say it’s racist white and Latinos. 3 or 4 police person’s die on duty every week. But to answer your question, the number appears to be zero, one if you count the retired one in St Louis, which still means zero.

The Air Force booger boy appears to have killed 3ish, but, again not protest related.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:09 pm
Deatheater confronts critic.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1270849676724654080
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:28 pm
Klink seems to think these cops would’ve been murdered anyway. Just some spilled milk on the path to progress. No reason for alarm.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:38 pm
Ian Miles Cheong
@stillgray
·
Not ones to be left behind, Portland Antifa is setting up its own autonomous zone.
__ _

Ian Miles Cheong
@stillgray
·
Portland Antifa’s autonomous zone blocks a high traffic intersection. This’ll play well with the residents, I’m sure.
__ _

Cali-Conservative
@CaliConserv1
·
The fences the Portland socialists are using to set up their
“Autonomous Zone” has a line of barbed wire on the top…
__ _

Moloch_Hunter
@AussieComitatus
·
all idealism, zero pragmatism

bane of the Left in any Era
__ _

Kwisatz Haderach Flag of United States
@GardTigger
·
Isn’t Portland already an autonomous zone?
__
harkin (9c4571) — 6/10/2020 @ 11:34 pm
In the hands of anyone else, having a rally in Tulsa on Juneteenth could have been a really good political opportunity. Trump, though? He’s going to screw it up.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/10/2020 @ 11:38 pm
Dana, The Tulsa massacre was a lot worse than your post notes. The link provides additional detail but there are relevant facts you didn’t get into. I think these facts are important to know since they have an impact on how people view the massacre.

1. The area that was destroyed was argualbly the most affluent Black community in the country at that time and was refereed to as “Black Wall Street”

2. The massacre destroyed that entire area, over 35 city blocks were burned. According to a later Red Cross estimate, some 1,256 houses were burned; 215 others were looted but not torched. Two newspapers, a school, a library, a hospital, churches, hotels, stores and many other black-owned businesses were among the buildings destroyed or damaged by fire. Over 100 people were murdered.

3. LEO were among those who participated in the massacre. The national guard arrived after the massacre was over and imprisoned over 6000 people. Most of them black.

4. The incident was covered up for a long time.

5. After the massacre segragation in Tulsa got worse and a KKK chapter was established and grew.

The importance and meaning of historical events is subjective and open to debate. But for a lot of people the Tulsa Massacre wasn’t just a big lynching. It was when white Tulsans destroyed a thriving black community because they were doing well, the government let them do it, everyone covered it up, and afterwords they were prevented from rebuilding.

In this frame it’s not just an example of a hate crime, it’s an example of white american’s using force to prevent black American’s from achieving prosperity.

I’m not trying to argue that this is the 100% correct view, but I think there are elements of truth to it.

Also, given the subject matter, I want to stress I’m not trying to accuse you of minimizing this in any way. I liked your post and I learned some things I didn’t know in writing my comment.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 4:41 am
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:20 pm

So, no political rallies on June 1st, the 19th, or ever in Tulsa? Is this across the board or is this one of those things were some groups can’t do things but others can?

Just so I’m following along; we can’t have political rallies on Freedom Day because it’s a day we’re supposed to honor black Americans? So, we give up freedoms to honor people who had there’s taken away but just on the day they heard about it in a town in Texas.

We can’t have a rally in Tulsa because of 1921. That means we can’t have a rally in Atlanta because of 1906 or between September 22-24. It might be simpler to just start making a list of acceptable places and dates. It seems like it would be much smaller.

frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:36 pm

Frosty, I don’t think your characterization is at all representative of anything anyone is saying. Let me take a swing at a general principle.

If you’re a leader during a major political conflict and you announce a plan to hold an important political rally both on the anniversary of a historical event that’s relevant to the conflict and in a place that that had a major event that’s relevant to the conflict it matter. The time and place of your rally (or whatever it is) becomes part of the context of whatever you do or say.

Honestly it’s an opportunity for Trump. If he goes there and gives a good speech that talks about historical injustices that have been perpetrated on black Americans the time and place could add a lot of power to his words. Conversely if he gives a speech that minimizes or ignores them it will also give that message power.

Let me give you an analogy. If a president goes to Normandy within a couple weeks of D-Day and either ignores the military or says something that is antagonistic to the military it will get more attention than if they did it the Rose Garden. If there’s a huge conflict going on that involves the military it will get even more attention.

Or for a real world example. Neal Tyson Dewhatever tweeted about Isaac Newtons Birthday on Christmas and said nothing about Christmas. This was offensive to a lot of people not because Sr. Issac is Taboo, but because of the timing of his tweet.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:00 am
nothing to see here,

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/live-from-seattle.php
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:41 am
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:00 am

I appreciate your analogy but I understand why this is being discussed.

Can you articulate any limiting principle to this process? The purpose of reductio ad absurdum and the logical extreme is to explore that. Contrary to Klink and john’s response it’s a valid method of exploring an argument. If an argument can be carried to its logical conclusion and you reach an absurdity the argument has a problem. There have been other significant attacks similar to Tulsa and Atlanta has one of those in it’s past. There have in fact been many instances of racial violence so the question of what degree of violence gets on this list isn’t childish.

I’ve said this went beyond Floyd and police violence several days ago and that was met with disagreement. I’ve asked this in a different form about the base names, which don’t have anything to do with police violence or Floyd, and the conversation turned to defending slavery and the confederacy, confirming that we’ve moved past police violence and suggesting that no one can find a limit to the underlying argument. You’ve said the goal is equal treatment, which is a limiting principle with its own issues. But some of the demands we’re seeing now contradict that, e.g. the demands from Antifa Seattle for black doctors and nurses specifically to help care for black patients and the demand that people of Seattle seek out and proudly support Black-owned businesses.

Regarding your analogy, I had not heard of Juneteenth until this week. It’s not possible for me to have heard this dog whistle. Comparing it to D-Day or Christmas is overstating the issue. Not because of the importance of the underlying issue but because I don’t think many other people know about Juneteenth either. I suspect that if you asked any random person when we should celebrate the end of slavery they would say when it was issued but that was Jan 1 and everyone is hungover. The number of people who would then pick the date the news made it to Texas would be pretty small.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:44 am
it’s very silly, the airstrike would be on would be duke of seattle, raz simone, or there was a peruvian version in the sequel, which preached the anarchism we’re seeing today, even the university of chicago economics department isn’t safe,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:50 am
We have always been at war with Seattle.
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:55 am
they should learn from the melian example, dark angel, turned out to be real,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:57 am
Why don’t we clean the scum out of the White House first, and then worry about some overgrown logging camp in the Northwest boonies?
nk (1d9030) — 6/11/2020 @ 6:58 am
Just like those dustups in sarajevo and beirut thet didnt amount to anything.
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:10 am
At least jay lopez is raising cane to good lizard lightfoot (im using that term advisedly
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:15 am
Frosty,
When I moved from Michigan to Texas I was surprised that Juneteenth was a thing. I’d never heard of it before I moved to Texas. I lived in DFW and it was taught in my kids schools. If I remember correctly they y employer had signs up in the factory about it. It was wasn’t Christmas, but it was a notable holiday on par with Memorial day or Labor day or Presidents day. So from your statement I’m going to assume you haven’t spent a lot of time in that part of the country.

Regarding a limiting principle; I don’t accept your formulation of the principle that no rally/ speech can ever be given on a date with historical significance. I offered an alternative principle that I’ll re-state here.

If you’re a leader during a major political conflict and you announce a plan to hold an important political rally both on the anniversary of a historical event that’s relevant to the conflict and in a place that that had a major event that’s relevant to the conflict it matters. The time and place of your rally (or whatever it is) becomes part of the context of whatever you do or say.

Your point about reduction to the absurd is correct but incomplete. Another result of an absurd outcome is that the principle you are exaggerating is incorrect. That’s what I think is going on here. My analogy was just intended to try and communicate the point i was making.

Again, he can say what he wants, when, and where he wants. But the choice of this time and this place will add impact to any comments he makes about race and the current conflict over police violence. It’s possible that the time and place have enough significance that not making any statement, and holding a typical Trump event, will itself have an impact.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:17 am
@63 & 65, Speaking at Tulsa may well be an opportunity for Trump….but the enduring theme of this narrative is…..will he or won’t he say something utterly terrible and divisive. Sure there is a strong likelihood that this will be carefully scripted to reduce the current hemorrhaging….but who’s this really designed to fool? Trump’s instincts aren’t to de-escalate a situation and find common purpose…it’s just not his track record or his personality. He loves drama. He is ill equipped as a leader. I’ve seen little over the past 3.5yrs (4.5yrs if we count the 2016 campaign) to convince me otherwise.
AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:27 am
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
THOSE THAT DENY THEIR HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!
10:09 AM · Jun 11, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

As Time and Dana noted…History

1. The area that was destroyed was arguably the most affluent Black community in the country at that time and was referred to as “Black Wall Street”

2. The massacre destroyed that entire area, over 35 city blocks were burned. According to a later Red Cross estimate, some 1,256 houses were burned; 215 others were looted but not torched. Two newspapers, a school, a library, a hospital, churches, hotels, stores and many other black-owned businesses were among the buildings destroyed or damaged by fire. Over 100 people were murdered.

3. LEO were among those who participated in the massacre. The national guard arrived after the massacre was over and imprisoned over 6000 people. Most of them black.

4. The incident was covered up for a long time.

5. After the massacre segregation in Tulsa got worse and a KKK chapter was established and grew.

The importance and meaning of historical events is subjective and open to debate. But for a lot of people the Tulsa Massacre wasn’t just a big lynching. It was when white Tulsans destroyed a thriving black community because they were doing well, the government let them do it, everyone covered it up, and afterwords they were prevented from rebuilding.

History, 2019 on 2017 Charlottesville comments

“If you look at what I said you will see that that question was answered perfectly,” Trump told reporters on the White House lawn ahead of a trip to Indianapolis to speak at the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting. “I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee, a great general.”
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:32 am
AJ and Klink, I don’t expect that Trump will be able to leverage the time and place to his advantage. It’s possible. But he’s never shown any ability to change his approach so I don’t think it’s likely that he will find a vision that brings us together to work on what we can agree on, or deliver a message that connects people to that vision.
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:38 am
Speaking at Tulsa may well be an opportunity for Trump….but the enduring theme of this narrative is…..will he or won’t he say something utterly terrible and divisive

There will be protesters there, interrupting him, chanting lots of things. And he’s Donald J Trump, he doesn’t respond well to people describing him accurately.It’s a mistake on every level, and his people deserve more of the blame than he does at this point, they could have just not given him the option. That they did, and are, tells you something.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:38 am
On May 30, 1921, a young black teenager named Dick Rowland entered an elevator at the Drexel Building, an office building on South Main Street. At some point after that, the young white elevator operator, Sarah Page, screamed; Rowland fled the scene. The police were called, and the next morning they arrested Rowland.

By that time, rumors of what supposedly happened on that elevator had circulated through the city’s white community. A front-page story in the Tulsa Tribune that afternoon reported that police had arrested Rowland for sexually assaulting Page.

From James S. Hirsch, Riot and Remembrance: The Tulsa Race War and Its Legacy (New York: Houghton Mifflin, 2002) page 113:

Oddly enough, the safest black man in Tulsa during the riot was Dick Rowland. He stayed in jail under guard that night, was spirited out of town the next morning, and was never seen again in Tulsa.

He was later indicted, and had a member of the Ku Klux Klan appointed for him as a defense lawyer, but later the indictment was dismissed, as well as the indictment of all but one of the black men accused of starting the riot.

It was a hideous event that seems to have faded into the historical past.

It didn’t just fade. It was covered up at the time.

Newspaper archives were missing. This used to happen with many events after the Civil War. They never tried to hide from people in the North thing s that had been said before the Civil War, because they were too well known. Copies of the newspapers, and letters were in the North.

The book “Riot and Remembrance” has a lot about what happened (there are some things the author can’t tell – doesn’t know ) and about the the cover-up, the uncovering of the cover-up two or three generations later, and the attempt by some people in the 1990s to claim unhistorical things. Page 232:

Reading through the Tulsa County sheriff’s records on microfilm, she found hat handwritten records had been kept from 1911 straight through May 30, 1921. Suddenly there was a two-week gap. She scrolled the film back and forth and could find no explanation, and she suspected the records had been purged to protect the names of whites who had been arrested.

And probably much else.

There was a book published in the late 1920s by a black riot survivor. The few copies that survived by 1996 were very brittle. There were a few other sources.

There was a cover-up of the very existence of a substantial black community in Tulsa previously. The Tulsa Chamber of Commerce published a 120-page souvenir program in 1957 (36 years after its destruction) to commemorate 50 years of Oklahoma statehood. It purported to cover all aspects of fulsa’s history contained not a single mention of blacks.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:39 am
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:32 am

. “I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee, a great general.”

The only problem with that is that were apparently no such people at that rally – the third to defend the statue.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:40 am
Here’s a local Seattle perspective, with some relevant history about previous attempts at autonomous zones in Seattle. As I see it, they’ve moved from the “Woo hoo! Autonomy!” phase to the “WTF do we do now” phase. Eventually, things will settle and their “movement” will lose steam because most folks would rather go back to work or school and live their lives.
My cynical take is this: SPD will get its precinct back after making nicey-nice noises to the community and making a few changes to their policing. The wealthy folk around Volunteer Park want their fast response times, so the movers and shakers will fight to keep the East Precinct where it is, although there’s probably more of a need for one near Garfield HS.
I also can’t help but notice the alarmist pieces in right-wing media, written by outsiders who don’t know the first thing about the city.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:51 am
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:17 am

As is often the case I think we agree more than disagree.

I don’t accept your formulation of the principle that no rally/speech can ever be given on a date with historical significance.

I’d say it’s more like you are defining the bounds, or offering up a limit, i.e. it’s a function of the relationship between the historical and current events. This implies that Atlanta would also be problematic and I suspect the biggest issue here is the with the date.

I’m going to assume you haven’t spent a lot of time in that part of the country.

I have not. I know enough about Texas to know that they have a variety of local customs I’m unaware of, a known unknown sort of thing.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:51 am
Oh, and I’ve got some fieldwork to do in Seattle next week, so I’ll be driving down there to check it out.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:55 am
Paul Montagu

I looked it up last night, and this is the 5th time since 1970 that something like this has gone on in Seattle, all but one of them just sort of petered out. This one seems a bit more militant, maybe.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:01 am
1. The area that was destroyed was arguably the most affluent Black community in the country at that time

So was Wilmington North Carolina in 1898. Anything that could lead people to it was covered up. So much so that the history of back fiddlers was suppressed and square dancing was portrayed as of white origin.

5. After the massacre segregation in Tulsa got worse and a KKK chapter was established and grew.

I think the black community basically ceased to exist. There were a few who stayed, mostly very poor. There was medical help.

This however, was almost the last time something like this happened. The Rosewood massacre took place during the first week of January 1923 in rural Levy County, Florida.

I think there was a very secret silent conspiracy to destroy or at least interfere with the Ku Klux Klan. One result of which was getting the sculptor of Stone Mountain Georgia to quit (it’s come down in history as some kind of a quarrel but I think more likely he was bought off but it was hidden from the Klan what had really happened – so the Klan wouldn’t try to assassinate the persons responsible.)

Eventually the Mount Rushmore was created to keep the sculptor busy and employed. Stone Mountain was not an imitation of Mount Rushmore; Mount Rushmore was an imitation of Stone Mountain, Georgia.

In the late 1920s all the work that had been done on Stone Mountain was dynamited and destroyed, but it was taken up again 30 years later and built.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:03 am
@80, date and place. If he went to hold a rally in Ohio in June and went to Tulsa in the fall I think there would be less focus on the symbolism.
Time123 (66d88c) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:05 am
Business SMS has become one of the most popular communication channels for internal and external communication. It is considered to be one of the reasons why email is not considered the dominant channel it was in its prime.
Business SMS (bc5e2f) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:07 am
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:01 am

Given our other discussions about what should happen in cases of sedition; should we hang the people who’ve organized this or make statutes of them?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:12 am
Juneteenth is well known in Texas. I don’t know if it is known in Oklahoma but I’ve always viewed it as uniquely Texan, so maybe not.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:12 am
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 5:00 am

If you’re a leader during a major political conflict and you announce a plan to hold an important political rally both on the anniversary of a historical event that’s relevant to the conflict

Juneteenth is a holiday in Texas, not in Oklahoma. And the massacre in Tulsa happened on June 1. And not 100 years ago, but 99.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:28 am
88, Seemed regional to me when I lived there. But i can’t prove I’m right.
Time123 (66d88c) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:34 am
Regional, Region United States.

State Year of recognition[43]
Alabama 2011
Alaska 2001
Arizona 2016
Arkansas 2005
California 2003
Colorado 2004
Connecticut 2003
Delaware 2000
Florida 1991
Georgia 2011
Hawaii N/A
Idaho 2001
Illinois 2003
Indiana 2010
Iowa 2002
Kansas 2007
Kentucky 2005
Louisiana 2003
Maine 2011
Maryland 2014
Massachusetts 2007
Michigan 2005
Minnesota 1996
Mississippi 2010
Missouri 2003
Montana 2017
Nebraska 2009
Nevada 2011
New Hampshire 2019
New Jersey 2004
New Mexico 2006
New York 2004
North Carolina 2007
North Dakota N/A
Ohio 2006
Oklahoma 1994
Oregon 2001
Pennsylvania 2001
Rhode Island 2012
South Carolina 2008
South Dakota N/A
Tennessee 2007
Texas 1980
Utah 2016
Vermont 2007
Virginia 2007
Washington 2007
West Virginia 2008
Wisconsin 2009
Wyoming 2003
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:44 am
But what kind of recognition does it have outside of Texas?

I see it became official in Texas in 1980 and I see Oklahoma is dated 1994.

There may be some efforts to make this a general holiday celebrating freedom from slavery in the United States.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:54 am
correction to 83. Actually there were lacks in Tulsa after that and some drifted back in a few years. A destroyed church was not rebuilt until 1952. Fear of a second riot affected what a lot of people did. It worked both ways.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:12 am
Remember that pesky virus?

My university just made it official; essentially all Fall classes will be taught remotely.

Dear Colleaugues,

This is to update faculty on the current status of fall instruction. At the undergraduate level, essentially all instruction will be remote. A handful of labs as well as off-campus courses in nursing and education are being evaluated for exceptions to be held in-person. At the graduate level, planning is still underway to determine which courses will be in-person. Associate deans have submitted lists of graduate courses for next year that faculty think must be conducted in-person and of those that would preferably be held in-person. These courses will be prioritized for in-person teaching should public health guidance allow. Both incoming and continuing undergraduate students will be informed of the status of instruction by the end of this week.

I’m teaching an intro physics course for pre-meds in the Fall, and it’s going to be a nightmare…
Dave (1bb933) — 6/11/2020 @ 9:44 am
You would have loved being on the front lines with active and retired LKs and others in Ray Lopez’ SW side ward, Narciso. Alas, I have to put off the trips to my moms house (further east blacker part of the South Side) .as much as possible
urbanleftbehind (078909) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:05 am
so you’ve gone full gotham, when does scarecrow show up,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:09 am
You take the protection that shows up…actually it was far from exclusively gangeros…many of my college chums were out front. After the Slumdog Millionaire inspired attack on Cicero by black west siderson June 1, I was like “I ain’t blacking out s/=t on my Facebook”.
urbanleftbehind (078909) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:15 am
But what kind of recognition does it have outside of Texas?

I see it became official in Texas in 1980 and I see Oklahoma is dated 1994.

There may be some efforts to make this a general holiday celebrating freedom from slavery in the United States.

Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 8:54 am

It would make sense set such a holiday when the last slave was freed
Time123 (235fc4) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:33 am
Juneteenth’s been “abused” in several northern cities such as Milwaukee and Cincinnati, used as an excuse to menace non-blacks. Wasnt really a thing in Chicago, official recognition notwithstanding.
urbanleftbehind (078909) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:54 am
I think the last slave was freed after December 6, 1865, when the 13th amendment went into effect. In slave states that stayed in the Union, like Delaware. And Maryland Kentucky and Missouri. But I don’t know the details. June 19, 1865 would have been the last major freeing of slaves in the states of he old Confederacy.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/11/2020 @ 4:50 pm
Trump can be savvy about publicity and messaging, so I think he will avoid talking about race except to offer calm, unifying statements. Instead, he will focus on himself and his campaign. The date and location of the rally are enough for racially motivated supporters to get the message they want to hear.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/12/2020 @ 9:41 am
Most likely Trump will ramble on how great he is for blacks because they had jobs before the China hoax virus let the Democrats sabotage the economy, and while reminding everyone that Lincoln was a Republican claim he’s as good as Lincoln.
Kishnevi (0af9f4) — 6/12/2020 @ 9:54 am

6/10/2020

Trump Campaign to Hold First Rally In Tulsa On Juneteenth

99 Responses to “Trump Campaign to Hold First Rally In Tulsa On Juneteenth”

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