Patterico's Pontifications

Boy, wth happened to Reason?

But since you’ve raised the subject, here’s a contribution from Glenn Loury at Brown University in rebuttal to a letter from the administration regarding systemic racism:

“I must object. This is no reasoned ethical reflection. Rather, it is indoctrination, virtue-signaling, and the transparent currying of favor with our charges. The roster of Brown’s “leaders” who signed this manifesto in lockstep remind me of a Soviet Politburo making some party-line declaration. I can only assume that the point here is to forestall any student protests by declaring the university to be on the Right Side of History.

What I found most alarming, though, is that no voice was given to what one might have thought would be a university’s principal intellectual contribution to the national debate at this critical moment: namely, to affirm the primacy of reason over violence in calibrating our reactions to the supposed “oppression.” Equally troubling were our president’s promises to focus the university’s instructional and research resources on “fighting for social justice” around the world, without any mention of the problematic and ambiguous character of those movements which, over the past two centuries or more, have self-consciously defined themselves in just such terms—from the French and Russian Revolutions through the upheavals of the 1960s.”

Read it all:

I Must Object – A rebuttal to Brown University’s letter on racism in the United States

https://www.city-journal.org/brown-university-letter-racism
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 12:40 pm

Yeah. Libertarians are good for the occasional laugh. What about their other abiding passion? Any studies on what prostitution is worse than?

nk (1d9030) — 6/6/2020 @ 12:44 pm

Let me play!

Prostitution is worse than sexual harassment.

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 12:56 pm

In all fairness the government only kind of knows what you should pay in taxes. It would be way too expensive for them to hire enough people to figure it out for everyone, so they only actually figure it out if their automatic system tells them that your taxes might be weird.

Nic (896fdf) — 6/6/2020 @ 1:47 pm

“Together”…. we are building another wall.

This time, extending the perimeter around the White House several more blocks. I guess that’s so our Commander has sufficient time to get to his bunker. For another inspection.

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 1:51 pm

Government is best when it governs least. (wrong) Government is best when it governs as least as necessary. (right) If you don’t know 9-11 was a counter attack. If we do not attack them where they live they will not counter attack us where we live. Don’t start fights and then blame others for fighting back.

asset (1bb4b0) — 6/6/2020 @ 1:59 pm

Actually, it makes me wonder what he and that AG of his have planned for us next since they are bringing in security forces from outside the area and building a larger perimeter.

If they beat up a few more peaceful protesters, I suppose there might be a need for those things after all. And then he will pat himself on the back for his great foresight.

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 2:00 pm

como va felipe, we’ve seen how whitmer, cuomo, northam rule, and much like wizard ferguson, they don’t abide by their own rules, we must have ‘space to destroy’ has that not been made crystal clear, we saw the example of detroit, and that is the model, with mayor bane, although on steroids,

narciso (7404b5) — 6/6/2020 @ 2:03 pm

Tan feliz como una lobriz.

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 2:14 pm

I guess some people think that the extended perimeter and security for the White House isn’t for these protesters. It’s for when he loses the election. He aint going nowhere.

I have to agree that this is a distinct possibility as well.

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 2:21 pm

Some reporter needs to ask Trump if he plans to abide by the 2020 election results. Or if this “rigged” election is already discredited, in his mind.

Remember…. he believes that he won the popular vote last time which would give him an error rate somewhere north of three million votes. My guess is that he will claim to have won even if he loses by five or six million votes. And, unfortunately, about 40 million people will strain to believe him.

God help us if he loses a couple swing states by a point or less.

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 2:47 pm

Jonathan Kay
@jonkay

This @nytimes oped instructs us to excommunicate “loved ones” until they’ve attended a protest, or paid cash to author-approved causes.

So grandparents need to risk COVID19 at a protest or pay up, or no grandkids
How did antiracism get so creepy & cultish

https://nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opinion/whites-anti-blackness-protests.html
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Jonathan Kay
@jonkay
·
The @SenTomCotton piece reflected the view of most Republicans and ~ 1/3 of Dems. But that was seen as too extreme. OTOH, the view that grandpa should be excommunicated unless he pays money or risks getting COVID-19 at a protest is probably held by about 0.1% of Americans….
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:04 pm

“ I guess some people think that the extended perimeter and security for the White House isn’t for these protesters. It’s for when he loses the election. He aint going nowhere”.

I remember those predictions when he was elected that there’d be concentration camps for gays and women being forced into Handmaid servitude.

Tee Dee Ess
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:07 pm

@5 Our brave president. Who bravely hides away.

Nic (896fdf) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:33 pm

The worst interactions I have are with my “voluntary” HOA (imposed by government as a condition of getting development permits, but voluntary in the sense that no one HAS to get development permits).

Latest: They don’t like the shade of red I used in the rocks in my back yard. It may LOOK like many of the rocks other people use, but it’s not on the approved shade list apparently.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:42 pm

Let me play!

Gambling is worse than theft. Lotteries help the schools.

(the second lie is harder to spot)

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:44 pm

BTW, I am getting emails from all these different groups and companies, falling all over themselves with “Black Lives Matter!” and platitudes galore.

A cynical person would think that someone has marshaled the anger behind Floyd (and amplified by 2 months of confinement), then set it loose to prepare the November battlespace.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/6/2020 @ 3:49 pm

Citizen: I want to be a cosmetologist.
Government: that will be 1600 hours of training that you have to pay for before you are on the street. and you are still liable for mistakes.
Citizen: I want to be a policeman.
Government: That will be 664 hours of training that we will pay you for before you are on the street. and you aren’t liable for mistakes. unless you are dumb enough to have it captured on camera.

https://beautyce.com/california-cosmetologists-putting-in-more-training-than-police-academy-recruits/

kaf (bd613c) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:27 pm

@13. “I remember those predictions when he was elected that there’d be concentration camps for gays and women being forced into Handmaid servitude.”

Don’t be silly. He builds walls to keep people out. More like a gated community. For the whole country. To keep the riffraff out, ya know.

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:45 pm

kaf (bd613c) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:27 pm

Ah, then that explains it.

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:52 pm

noel (4d3313) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:45 pm

If you have to build a wall, is it better to build walls to keep people in, or to keep people out? You decide.

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 4:54 pm

Kevin @15,

That’s too bad. HOAs often have Barney Fife types in charge. The last thing I would want is to pay for some officious prick to inspect the hue of rocks in my back yard.

When I bought a house in Reno, I purposely avoided the parts of town with HOAs, which meant virtually all of the newer houses. I went with a home built in 1965. Not only is there no HOA, there aren’t even any CCRs! Nobody in my neighborhood has abused this freedom, however. Another benefit is that I avoided the small lots that are typical of an HOA.

norcal (a5428a) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:13 pm

He could claim the wall is for, like, privacy.

Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:15 pm

“ If you have to build a wall, is it better to build walls to keep people in, or to keep people out? You decide.”

People are walled in to keep them from escaping Socialism/Communism. They are allowed no option of reconsideration.

People are walled out to keep them from entering to enjoy the fruits of freedom and free market capitalism. They are allowed the option of following immigration rules to come in.

When more people are seeking to escape than to enter, you’ll know Socialism/Communism has succeeded in the USA.

harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:21 pm

mr. donald trump the president, who in his younger days rocked the casbah as fatima of the seven veils and five venereal diseases, simply does not want the park police wasting any more tear gas than necessary on protesters when he wants to go for only a short walk

he is very frugal with the taxpayers’ money that way

nk (1d9030) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:21 pm

mr. donald trump the president, who in his younger days rocked the casbah as fatima of the seven veils and five venereal diseases,

I heard this about Guiliani, too.

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:25 pm

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

1,200 of the country’s most renowned public health “experts” have signed a letter calling outdoor mass gatherings “vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people.” We are in the midst of a mass psychotic break
__ _

Damian Tysdal
@DamianTysdal
·
and this..

“This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders. Those actions not only oppose public health interventions, but are also rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives.”
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Steph
@WhyIsKorisTaken
·
So black business owners must stand by silently and hide in their houses as their government drives them into bankruptcy. But they CAN leave their house if, and only if, they join massive protests. Makes sense.
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Verisimilitudesque (Seeking Commissions)
·
Welcome to clown world.
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Robert Weiden
@bobwnyg
·
Yes we are. Trump broke these people.
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Timo – TheStockShorter
@Viidakkotimppa
·
They were broken already. This is truly Lord-of-the-flies stuff!
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:26 pm

mr. donald trump the president, who in his younger days rocked the casbah as fatima of the seven veils and five venereal diseases

Your twisted parody of happyfeet is wickedly funny, nk.

norcal (a5428a) — 6/6/2020 @ 5:41 pm

sometimes my love for mr. president donald trump will just not be contained, mr. norcal

nk (1d9030) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:10 pm

When the mob you helped create turns on you:

https://twitter.com/CarpeDonktum/status/1269416243762810880?s=20

The other one in the stream where he does the walk of shame would do Mao proud.
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:12 pm

harkin, I watched that video from under my rock. Who is that kid?

felipe (023cc9) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:24 pm

Uhhh..libertarian humor. Yeah, the GOVERNMENT is the problem. Not the Obama Administration. Not AOC. Not Bernie. Not Schumer. Just the GOVERNMENT. Trump, Sessions, Pelosi, Hillary, AOC, Bernie, its all the same. They’re all just GOVERNMENT. Ginsberg and Thomas, just the same. GOVERNMENT.

No connection to the real world = Libertarianism.

rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:26 pm

FDR, HItler, Tojo, Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Stalin, and Ike. All the Same – just Government.

rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:28 pm

Noel,

Come off it. The left hasn’t gotten over Trumps election in 2016 and still haven’t accepted it while trying to overturn the results by any means possible.

NJRob (b723d2) — 6/6/2020 @ 6:40 pm

Felipe asked:

“ Who is that kid?”
_

That was his honor the mayor of Minneapolis Jacob Frey.

He refused to say he would support completely defunding the MPD.
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harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 7:07 pm

FDR, HItler, Tojo, Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Stalin, and Ike. All the Same – just Government.

Ridiculous. Seriously, Lincoln in the same sentence with Hitler and Stalin? Beyond ridiculous.

Paul Montagu (190800) — 6/6/2020 @ 7:16 pm

FDR, HItler, Tojo, Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Stalin, and Ike. All the Same – just Government.

Spoken like a true 13 year old, or someone toiling away at the troll works in Saint Petersburg (Leningrad the fan bois).

Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/6/2020 @ 7:51 pm

In his own invariably even-tempered and good-natured way, rcocean points out the vacuity of the Libertarians. You can’t be a citizen without a government to be a citizen of so why don’t they invent Reardon metal and run off to Galtville already?

nk (1d9030) — 6/6/2020 @ 7:53 pm

“ FDR, HItler, Tojo, Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Stalin, and Ike. All the Same – just Government.”
_

Some folks just require a /sarc tag bro.
_.

harkin (9c4571) — 6/6/2020 @ 7:54 pm

https://www.ktvu.com/news/santa-cruz-deputy-killed-in-ambush

Another cop murdered, this time in an ambush and IED’s involved.

NJRob (4d595c) — 6/6/2020 @ 10:20 pm

I remember those predictions when he was elected that there’d be concentration camps for gays and women being forced into Handmaid servitude.
No, that happens when Pence replaces Trump.

Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 6/6/2020 @ 11:53 pm

Police Violence at Protests Is Undeniable. All the Videos Are Right Here
Across social media, the clips spread and seem to multiply: Police officers ram their cars into protesters holding up a barricade. Police officers detain and cuff an on-duty deliveryman, in spite of the protection his “essential worker” status supposedly affords. Police officers tear gas a captive crowd in a park. Police officers push a 75-year-old long time peace activist to the ground, where they leave him bleeding from his ears.

……. Lawyer T. Greg Doucette and mathematician Jason Miller are working on compiling these clips and images of violence in a public Google Sheet, titled “GeorgeFloyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter”.

Doucette told VICE he was originally compiling a Twitter thread of videos of police violence, and got to the point that he was receiving thousands of messages on Twitter. “[The videos] come in from a variety of spots, but the vast majority are sent via DM,” Doucette said. “I’ve got nearly 1,000 unopened DMs at this point plus ppl I’ve already talked with sending me more.”

Miller took Doucette’s compilation a step further by actually creating the spreadsheet itself. “When I saw [Doucette] was creating a Twitter thread with examples of police brutality, I knew the thread was going to be LONG, I knew it was going to be good, and I knew it was going to reach a lot of people,” Miller told VICE. “I wanted to help, so I just started making a Google spreadsheet so that other people could see, sort, and spend time with the documentary evidence he shared.”
……..

Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 6/7/2020 @ 12:07 am

@40 history is usually a meat axe not surgeon’s scalpel. When you want to make ameriKKKa great again this how it begins. Read how captain john brown tried to resolve the problem of slavery in his day.

asset (bdc565) — 6/7/2020 @ 1:51 am

#40 Yeah, the “Peaceful protests” continue. Was 17 dead yesterday, now 18 today. I’m sure the Dispatch Gang and the Bulwark Boys are up in arms. Oh wait, they’re not. Haven’t been reading David French lately, assume he’s making “The Conservative Case for Riots”.

rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/7/2020 @ 2:40 am

#43 You must agree with Stalin. You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/7/2020 @ 2:41 am

#39 Yeah, Harkin. As usual, I expected too much.

rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/7/2020 @ 2:42 am

We agree, ocean, you haven’t been reading French, which means anything you say about him is making sh*t up.
His piece today that you won’t read is on American racism.

Paul Montagu (190800) — 6/7/2020 @ 7:31 am

“ No, that happens when Pence replaces Trump”

Do you move those goalposts by hand or use a tractor?
_

harkin (9c4571) — 6/7/2020 @ 8:54 am

@47, Paul, I read French’s piece…and parts certainly resonated….but ultimately the Floyd tragedy is a hard question about policing and policy…and not fundamentally some question of hidden societal biases that we can connect to Chauvin’s actions. We are nearly 30 years removed from Rodney King…and every year….we have a new video of questionable if not horrific police brutality.

French brought up a statistic that suggested that blacks were under represented on the Minneapolis polcie force. Again, the implication is that if not purposeful this was systemic racism. But if you dig into it, Minneapolis did extensive outreach to broaden the number of black candidates. The reality is that not enough blacks want to be cops. Again, part of this may be that the culture is not attractive. But organizational leadership should be able to influence this culture. So, Why doesn’t it? Minneapolis is a very liberal city….why is it that liberal politicians have no ability to change the policing culture? I’m not saying this accusatorily….just there’s a lot of conversation from police chiefs, mayors, and city councils that we are simply not hearing. What have we learned and tried over this past 28+ years? Who has done better with police violence, why don’t those lessons get spread….what are different about the situations?

We don’t hear as much from the smart thoughtful people who have been working this problem…my suspicion is that it’s not quite as easy as just throwing out all the racist cops….or firing anyone who gets an excessive force accusation. We’re not hearing enough about what it means to be a cop….and the difficulty of attracting bright people to do a very stressful job with not a lot of reward. This is where French’s piece falls short for me…and maybe policing is an inherent problem for government….but what is it that we need to fix? The fact that humans have biases….seems like a road that will not yield much different results with excessive force. Training, screening, leadership, community….where are the innovators?

AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/7/2020 @ 9:38 am

49. The dirty, ugly truth concealed beneath layers of bureaucracy is that leftists want power and one way to express that power is through policing. It’s not about race. Maybe at one time it was but certainly not anymore. It’s about people in government that place themselves above the little people that vote for them.

I’d like to see a bloodless revolution in policing with cops walking beats and forming relationships. I’d love to see them peaking their heads in the doors of businesses up the street from the precinct offices just to say, “Just wanted to pay you a visit, sir (or ma’am). I hope everything is going well. Have a nice day.” Make their presence known as a part of the community.

Cops need to get their communities on board with the idea of being policed, and there are even guidelines out there on how to do it. It’s not impossible. Unfortunately, George Floyd happened to be black and his race is the occasion for a major distraction from the reform that really needs to happen.

I don’t believe most cops are racist. In fact, I believe that a solid majority of them are not, but I don’t think that’s the real issue. The issue is the “us vs. them” mentality that gets worse and worse the larger the city the cop has to work in.

~~Until~~ Unless we diagnose the problem properly, it will never go away.

Gryph (08c844) — 6/7/2020 @ 10:00 am

@50, The thing that concerns me with Chauvin….and hopefully I am remembering this correctly….is that he had 18 complaints filed against him previously. That’s a big number. Now obviously every complaint might not be valid…or have enough evidence to be actionable….but even with him being on the force for a long time….there is a sense of….where there is smoke, there must be fire. Again, we will not to be able to be privy to those investigations but that might tell a lot of the story here…whether he is an equal opportunity abuser….or if there was a consistent racial angle….and what was the perspective of those that worked the closest to him. I agree that this is an “us vs them” cultural problem…..that requires trying a more community oriented approach….but that gets harder I think when you get to big cities. Minneapolis ain’t Mayberry. Still, it’s frustrating that adults aren’t leading the discussion….and trying to bring perspective….but it’s a continued sign that our media is broken….our leadership is broken….and we’re now left with a perverse political correctness…that’s getting us no where.

AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/7/2020 @ 12:27 pm

I hear what you’re saying, AJ. The truth is more complicated.

Paul Montagu (190800) — 6/7/2020 @ 12:36 pm

It doesn’t matter that Minneapolis isn’t Mayberry. Community policing was pioneered by Robert Peel in London, a major cultural and population center of the 19th century. It can be done. But the culture shift has to start with the people that employe the cops — local governments. That will be tricky, for sure.

Gryph (08c844) — 6/7/2020 @ 1:49 pm

I think reality suggests that it does matter….and that this isn’t some secret that police chiefs and mayor’s offices just haven’t thought about. You need to find personality types that are willing and interested to invest in the neighborhoods that they are patrolling. And you have to have neighborhoods that give that officer a chance and support him/her to do the things necessary to police the area. You have to be psychologically shrewd to be that officer….I would speculate that those high IQ folks are not looking to deal with what goes on in rougher neighborhoods. You get what you get…and sometimes that’s Chauvin….

AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:00 am

6/6/2020

Listening to Reason

54 Responses to “Listening to Reason”

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