Patterico's Pontifications

6/4/2020

The Secret Service Knew, and the Park Police Account Is Bull– Er, “Nonsense”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Jay Caruso at the Washington Examiner has a useful piece that shows that the Park Police are lying when they claim they weren’t clearing out protestors for the President’s tawdry little photo op:

Officers of the Park Police also said that they didn’t know the president was going to walk to the church and that they began moving protesters out of the park in advance of the 7:00 p.m. citywide curfew because protesters started throwing items at them. My colleague, Timothy Carney, was there and didn’t witness anyone throwing anything at officers until after they began to move people out of the area.

I spoke with a former Secret Service agent who worked the presidential detail and used a very colorful metaphor to describe the Park Police comments. But let’s say this source said the excuse was “nonsense.”

According to the former agent, the area in front of the White House is tricky when it comes to jurisdiction. The asphalt of Pennsylvania Avenue is controlled, technically, by the Metropolitan Police Department. The sidewalks and the park are under the Park Police. The uniformed division of the Secret Service creates the zone of protection necessary whenever the president steps outside the White House.

All coordination of different law enforcement agencies goes through the Joint Operation Command Center of the Secret Service. The former agent said clearing Lafayette Square and the Pennsylvania Avenue area in front of the White House is a relatively routine event. A misplaced tourist backpack can get the area cleared. When it happens, it is all run through the command center, ensuring that all law enforcement agencies get notified.

The Secret Service has the legal authority to set up zones of protection. The agency creates the zone, and anyone entering that area without authorization is subject to fines and possible imprisonment. What that simply means is that wherever the president goes in the United States, the Secret Service determines, under federal law, what area gets cleared out.

We already knew they were lying but this puts more meat on the bone in a substantial way.

79 Responses to “The Secret Service Knew, and the Park Police Account Is Bull– Er, “Nonsense””

  1. Additional physical evidence that the Park Police and/or the white house are lying.

    Not sure this really matters since “Tear Gas” isn’t technical term and the distinction between types of irritant is used is really besides the point.

    Time123 (80b471)

  2. Here is the entire 2 hour block from the protest, starting 30 minutes before the “police (whoever they were)” rush. The Admin story is just complete hogwash.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  3. The Park Police must think Trump supporters are stupid to expect them to swallow a story like that.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. garcetti is defunding the police to the tune of 150 million, maybe that might have some relevance?

    narciso (7404b5)

  5. The motive for clearing out the protesters is the least important element of the lie.

    They lied about the tear gas, they lied about the peacefulness of the protesters.

    Those are important lies, because they give credence to the biggest lie: that it was proper and necessary to clear away the protesters.

    Kishnevi (23c526)

  6. The Park Police know Trump supporters are stupid enough to swallow a story like that.

    FTFY.

    Kishnevi (23c526)

  7. kim gardner is releasing all the rioters, does that matter,

    narciso (7404b5)

  8. garcetti is defunding the police to the tune of 150 million, maybe that might have some relevance?

    Nope. None whatsoever. Besides, he is not:

    On Wednesday, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti announced he is throwing out plans for a massive police budget hike as support for slashing police department funds grows among activists in the wake of George Floyd’s death.

    Now, about that boogeyman under your bed ….

    nk (1d9030)

  9. The funny thing about Garcetti’s “cut” to the police budget is that it would have happened anyway due to the massive budgetary shortfall. So now Garcetti gets to virtue signal and pretend that something that was forced upon him is actually his way of taming law enforcement. And Garcetti is b.s.’ing us when he says that the $150 million will be reallocated to community development.

    Besides, no matter what he pretends to cut he still has to meet pension obligations for retired cops. What he’ll probably do is shift that money from the police budget to some new line item for pensions, and pretend that it really is a budget reduction.

    JVW (30a532)

  10. Iran Frees Navy Veteran Held for Two Years

    Iran has freed Michael R. White, a Navy veteran held in that country for nearly two years, and he was on his way home, his mother announced on Thursday in the United States.
    ……
    The release of Mr. White, 48, a cancer patient who had been infected with the coronavirus while incarcerated in Iran, came a day after an Iranian scientist held in the United States was returned to Iran.

    American officials had insisted the two cases were not linked. But Iranian officials had suggested last month that once the scientist, Sirous Asgari, was back in Iran, they would look favorably at permitting Mr. White to go home.
    …..
    At least three other Americans, all with dual U.S. and Iranian citizenship, are known to be in custody in Iran. They are Siamak Namazi, a business executive, his father, Baquer Namazi, a former Unicef diplomat, and Morad Tahbaz, an environmental activist. All were accused of collaboration with the United States.
    ….
    In December, Iran freed Xiyue Wang, a Princeton graduate student charged with spying, in a swap for an Iranian scientist who had been convicted in the United States on charges of violating American trade sanctions.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  11. JVW has is right.

    Dana (0feb77)

  12. Tim Miller had a nice collection of all the Admin’s provable lies on Monday afternoon.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  13. @@8 & 9-
    The LAPD budget is around $2 billion, so I’m sure a cut of .008% won’t be noticed.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  14. Great link at 12, Herr Oberst. I recommend everybody read it. You too, narciso.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. I liked him in the first dead pool.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  16. I think all police should immediately go on strike and leave the streets to the people. Don’t come back to work until every elected official in cities & states being subjected to riots BEGS you on live tv… let the Purge movie REALLY happen for a few weeks, and let people see what would REALLY happen with no rule of law. Have Trump back off too, no calling in the military. No help. You assholes think the police & Trump are the problems, they’re so wrong for trying to quell unruly behavior & looting & murder… you want police to be defunded? Ok fine. Have at it… good luck to you all. Give it a couple of weeks of reality of what it would be like with no one to enforce the law…, and police will never be taken for granted again.

    Horatio (7d53cf)

  17. There might be one person like that here, Mr. Horatio. Maybe two. And both of them Trump supporters.

    nk (1d9030)

  18. Trump Goes on Early Morning Twitter Frenzy Over ‘Witch Hunt,’ Roger Stone, and ‘Fake’ NY Times
    President Donald Trump indulged himself on Twitter Thursday morning by slamming into his political foes again, boosting his allies, and saying very little about the continued national unrest over the death of George Floyd.

    For most of the morning, Trump railed against the “witch hunt” investigation into whether his presidential campaign worked with to Russia’s efforts to interfere with the 2016 election. To this end, Trump also praised Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) for ripping into the Department of Justice and grilling Rod Rosenstein when the former deputy attorney general testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
    ……
    Trump also used much of his morning to retweet attacks against his foes from Turning Point USA’s Charlie Kirk, throwing in a promo of his book for good measure. The president finally said something newsy when he responded to one of Kirk’s tweets by suggesting that his former adviser, Roger Stone, won’t be going to prison at the end of the month for witness tampering and lying to Congress.

    “Roger was a victim of a corrupt and illegal Witch Hunt, one which will go down as the greatest political crime in history,” Trump said. “He can sleep well at night!
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  19. Horatio (7d53cf) — 6/4/2020 @ 9:34 am

    This is the fundamental lie we’re being told. No one wants no police. They want control. This is why everyone must bend the knee, literally. BLM doesn’t want equal justice they want their own justice. They’ve toned this down recently and scaled it back to describing defunding as budget reductions. But the original, and underlying, demand is to replace law enforcement with something more amenable to the goals of social justice.

    frosty (f27e97)

  20. Cops are being shot, churches burned stores looted, call it the devouring.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  21. This is the fundamental lie we’re being told. No one wants no police. They want control. This is why everyone must bend the knee, literally. BLM doesn’t want equal justice they want their own justice. They’ve toned this down recently and scaled it back to describing defunding as budget reductions. But the original, and underlying, demand is to replace law enforcement with something more amenable to the goals of social justice.

    So the lie “we’re” being told by BLM, is not the thing that BLM is saying, its the thing you are saying they’re saying.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  22. Frost, I disagree. No one wants no police. They want police that don’t use excessive force and are held accountable when they do. If that was what you mean by social justice you’re pretty close to how I see it.

    Were you aware that one of the officer’s involved in the Floyd murder had previously been involved in beating a man stopped for questioning? The city paid 25K to settle the lawsuit and we was still on the street.

    They stopped Lamar Ferguson because he ‘looked suspicious’, beat him badly enough to require a hospital stay. Lied about outstanding warrants that did not exist. Accused him of resisting arrest and slipping his cuffs.
    He was cleared at trail.

    The City paid 25K to settle a suite.
    Then Thao stood there and kept the crowd away while Chavin killed floyd.

    Keep telling yourself that there isn’t a problem here that needs to be fixed.

    Ferguson and his partner Brittany, who was eight months pregnant at the time, were walking home in October 2014 after a hospital visit.

    They were just four blocks from where George Floyd died in Minneapolis when they were stopped by the two officers.

    Ferguson told The Sun they claimed he appeared “suspicious” and asked him to hand over his weapons, but he was unarmed.

    “They had no reason to stop me, they started asking me a whole bunch of questions, where I was going,” he said.

    They didn’t find no drugs or any weapons.

    “[Thao] was the most aggressive one, I was in handcuffs within the first few minutes of the incident. I was horrified.

    “I was still in the alleyway, they started swinging me around and slammed me on the ground.”

    The 33-year-old alleges Thunder climbed on top of him, while Thao punched and kicked him in front of his terrified partner, who stood beside them feeling helpless.

    In a deposition at the time, Thao claimed they arrested Ferguson due to an outstanding warrant and he only punched him after his hand slipped out of the handcuffs.

    They ran Ferguson’s ID through the National Crime Information Center, but no warrant showed up in the system, the lawsuit said.

    “I was hospitalized for four days. I had a major sublux to my face, I got four stitches and had to wear a brace for two weeks,”

    He was charged with assaulting the two officers, but later cleared at trial and a lawyer approached him regarding a civil suit

    Time123 (80b471)

  23. The lie you’re being told is that this situation is fine.

    Time123 (80b471)

  24. Defying Beijing, Thousands in Hong Kong Hold Tiananmen Vigil
    Chanting slogans like “Liberate Hong Kong,” thousands of people in Hong Kong flouted a police ban on Thursday as they gathered to memorialize the Tiananmen Square massacre, a striking display of defiance against Beijing’s tightening grip on the territory.
    ……
    In a break with tradition, the authorities in Hong Kong, citing fears about the coronavirus, imposed a ban on the Tiananmen vigil in Victoria Park, an annual event that often brings together a sea of candlelit faces against the backdrop of the city’s dense buildings. Officials urged residents to observe social distancing rules that barred public gatherings of more than eight people.

    Still, activists filed into parks and subway stations on Thursday, facing off against police as they honored victims of the crackdown in several districts across the territory. Some stayed at home, lighting candles and praying for freedom. Others voiced protests in the legislature, denouncing China as a “murderous state.”
    …..
    On Thursday, in a move opposition politicians said would inhibit free speech, Hong Kong’s legislature, which is dominated by pro-Beijing lawmakers, passed a law that would criminalize disrespect for China’s national anthem and make it punishable by up to three years in prison.

    The measure drew widespread anger, with pro-democracy lawmakers disrupting debate over the law on Thursday by throwing stink bombs in the legislative chamber. In a nod to the Tiananmen anniversary, many also yelled: “A murderous regime stinks for 10,000 years.”
    …..

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  25. Barely a month ago, violating safe distancing was enough of a reason to disperse protesters. Still thought it was. Ancient history, when there’s a president to bash.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d2f7f4)

  26. The Veepstakes: Handicapping Biden’s Choices
    ……
    …..in the hectic hours after the South Carolina primary this year and in advance of Super Tuesday, it seemed possible that Biden might have traded the vice presidential nomination to Klobuchar for her exit from the race and endorsement — which is why our ears perked up when Klobuchar said back in March that she was proud to join Biden’s “ticket” at a Michigan campaign event before quickly correcting herself.

    As it stands, Biden said recently that he will make his choice around Aug. 1. If the choice comes on that specific date, Biden’s VP choice would come 16 days before the Democratic National Convention is scheduled to open in Milwaukee (the DNC was originally scheduled to start a month earlier). A Biden selection on or by Aug. 1 would actually be relatively early by historical standards…..
    ……
    Klobuchar herself may still be a contender for the vice presidential nod, but certainly one would think that the events of the past couple of weeks have significantly reduced her chances of being selected. ….
    …..
    ……[T]here is persuasive evidence that suggests Biden would benefit electorally from picking a black running mate, which could redound in Democrats’ favor as a way to “to increase enthusiasm, voter participation and chances of victory.” …..[T]he black community is more cohesive in the United States than other broad groups of nonwhites (such as Hispanics or Asian Americans), meaning that, hypothetically, picking a black running mate might help Biden more with black performance and turnout than picking someone from a different nonwhite group would help him with that nonwhite voting bloc.
    …..
    …..What we think we know about what Biden values in his pick informs the list. First of all, and most obviously, Biden has said he will select a woman, and there is no reason to suggest he will not follow through on that promise. He has also said that he sees his own candidacy as a “bridge” to the future of the Democratic Party, a nod both to his advanced age and to those in the party who preferred candidates who, to put it bluntly, were not elderly white men who have spent their long careers in government in the mainstream of the Democratic Party.

    ….With all that in mind, here’s our list of who we think Biden is likeliest to pick:
    …..

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  27. Slate, May 7:

    A good rule of thumb for COVID-based discussions about “opening up” is that if someone is demanding it while threatening to hurt or kill you, you are probably not as “free” as they are, and that their project does nothing to increase freedom in America and everything to hoard a twisted idea of freedom for themselves.“
    _ _

    Slate, yesterday:


    Slate
    @Slate

    Non-violence is an important tool for protests, but so is violence.
    __

    To these people, it has nothing to do with safety, freedom, common sense or the constitution, its all about which side you’re on.
    __

    harkin (09e484)

  28. They are full of ouvno, they were ready tosuppress freedom they, they push anarchy now.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  29. Barely a month ago, violating safe distancing was enough of a reason to disperse protesters. Still thought it was. Ancient history, when there’s a president to bash.

    Please show a lockdown protest that was tear gassed and rubber bullets used. One, a single one.

    Or were you just lying for some sort of effect?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  30. “Barely a month ago, violating safe distancing was enough of a reason to disperse protesters.”

    https://i.imgur.com/Klqredy.jpg

    Davethulhu (93f68f)

  31. And the flatline was due to a costly lie that turned fatal.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  32. I’d love to have a Vice President named Keisha. Cooler even than Spiro, though Elbridge is not far behind either.

    nk (1d9030)

  33. “Please show a lockdown protest that had riots, looting, arson, mayhem, destruction of property, a little old lady clubbed with a 2×4, a police officer gunned down. One, a single one.”

    fyp
    _

    The lockdown protest I went to was a real washout, the Federalist Society lawyers who were supposed to supply the Molotov Cocktails never showed.
    _

    harkin (09e484)

  34. “The lockdown protest I went to was a real washout, the Federalist Society lawyers who were supposed to supply the Molotov Cocktails never showed.”

    The initial Floyd protest was peaceful until the police fired teargas and flashbangs.

    Davethulhu (93f68f)

  35. Irony is dead, see the legos company.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  36. Trump Tests a Role He’s Long Admired: A Strongman Imposing Order
    President Trump has come closer this week than at perhaps any point in his presidency to reproducing, in appearance if not in form, some of the same traits of the strongmen rulers for whom he has long expressed admiration.

    The man who praised President Vladimir V. Putin’s “very strong control” over Russia, and once said that China’s violent crackdown in Tiananmen Square showed “the power of strength,” found himself threatening to deploy the military to states where governors did not restore calm.
    …..
    Such moments — in another, Mr. Trump warned protesters, “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” — echo his praise for Rodrigo Duterte, the strongman president of the Philippines. Mr. Trump lauded the Philippine leader for doing an “unbelievable job on the drug problem,” referring to a campaign of vigilante police violence thought to have claimed thousands of lives.
    …..
    Mr. Trump’s unapologetic calls for force, his efforts to position the military as backing his political line, and his warnings of us-versus-them internal threats that must be put down swiftly all follow, whether he knows it or not, a playbook used by the very strongmen he has praised.
    ….
    It calls to mind Mr. Trump’s pledge on accepting the Republican presidential nomination: “I alone can fix it,” a message common to populist leaders who are skeptical of norms that restrain them and institutions that govern somewhat independently.
    ….
    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
    Signifying nothing.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  37. “The lockdown protests were peaceful until the crowd got worked up and attacked the litter before leaving.

    Fixed again.
    _

    harkin (09e484)

  38. Anybody know the point of us paying for an extra fence for the Whitehouse when the Whitehouse already has a fence?

    Nic (896fdf)

  39. How about here.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  40. I dunno, Mr. harkin. I also wonder why reopening pancake houses and burger pubs did not get people as worked up as the police not killing them with impunity. Can you understand it?

    nk (1d9030)

  41. “attacked the litter”

    I don’t even know what this means, but you’re gaslighting.

    Davethulhu (93f68f)

  42. “Anybody know the point of us paying for an extra fence for the Whitehouse when the Whitehouse already has a fence?”

    Trump finally got his wall. It’s just a little further from the Mexico border than originally planned.

    Davethulhu (93f68f)

  43. Rip M. all Trump had to do was be sensitive to how this comes across. All he had to do was be concerned for the fear strongman tactics create.

    But to him, it is weakness to care about others. In fact, Trump has to push through those warnings like a troll (which of course he is).

    Trump’s harshest critics were too easy on him. The GOP is destroying itself before our eyes and all Mike Pence has to do is tell the cabinet he’s invoking the 25th amendment and much could be saved. But I’m naive. Trump is a thug. He picked Pence because he has leverage over him. Anyone doing the right thing in this administration is subjecting themselves to some level of retribution. They would send soldiers into harms way, but they won’t end their precious political careers for the sake of their country.

    the far left, like the lawyer with the molotov cocktail, they are the beneficiaries of Trump’s abuses. Biden is not the path to more radicals and more violence. Trump is.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  44. But what did Trump know, and when did he know it? Always a chancy question with this president.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. I’d love to have a Vice President named Keisha.

    We haven’t had one named “Thurston” either. But how about “D’wana”? Or “Fatima”?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Frost, I disagree. No one wants no police. They want police that don’t use excessive force and are held accountable when they do.

    At first blush this would mean you’d have to pay them more, if you’re going to expect more. But then, Santa Monica police, where annual compensation of $300K isn’t unheard of for a sergeant, were completely clueless about the protests and looting that occurred. They arrested loads of peaceful demonstrators while allowing the high-end mall stores a few blocks away to be looted with impunity.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. But what did Trump know, and when did he know it? Always a chancy question with this president.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/4/2020 @ 11:31 am

    It’s pretty clear that no one is going to let him try to make noises with his face while under oath.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  48. Why It’s Still So Rare For Police Officers To Face Legal Consequences For Misconduct
    ……
    The fact that Chauvin was charged at all was significant. The elevation of the charges — and the fact that the other three officers are also being charged — is even more so. That’s because it’s still quite rare for police officers to be prosecuted. A review of the data we have on police prosecutions shows that it’s uncommon for police officers to face any kind of legal consequences — let alone be convicted — for committing fatal violence against civilians.
    ……
    …..[A]ccording to data from Philip M. Stinson, a criminal justice professor at Bowling Green State University, who collects one of the most reliable data sets on police prosecutions, only a handful of police officers are charged with murder or manslaughter every year……Stinson’s Henry A. Wallace Police Crime Database is among the best sources available on prosecutions of police; it logs 10,287 criminal arrest cases between 2005 and 2014 involving 8,495 non-federal sworn law enforcement officers.
    …..
    …..Stinson has found only 110 law enforcement officers nationwide have been charged with murder or manslaughter in an on-duty shooting — despite the fact that around around 1,000 people are fatally shot by police annually, according to a database maintained by The Washington Post. Furthermore, only 42 officers were convicted. Fifty were not and 18 cases are still pending. …..[M]any of these convictions ended up being for a lesser offense — only five of these officers were convicted of murder (and did not have that conviction overturned).
    …..
    …..Most years, the number of officers charged with murder or manslaughter in connection with an on-duty shooting is in the single digits. And despite the increased scrutiny on police violence since 2014 ….. neither the number of officers charged nor the number of convictions has meaningfully increased. The number of officers charged has edged into the double digits in four of the last six years (topping out at 18 in 2015), but Stinson told us that the uptick was too small to be statistically significant.
    …..
    …..Kate Levine, a professor of law at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law who studies police prosecutions, told us that not all misconduct — including use of excessive or even fatal force — is illegal. “If a civilian is displaying a weapon, it’s very hard to charge [the police officer] with murder for taking action against that civilian,” she said. “And even if a civilian doesn’t have a weapon, it’s hard to charge a police officer if [the officer] can credibly say they feared for their life.”
    …..
    There are other barriers to charging and convicting police, too. Prosecutors work closely with police departments, which means they may be reluctant to jeopardize that relationship by pursuing cases against officers. Police officers’ contracts also often protect them from interrogation techniques that are often used on civilians, according to Levine. And in the cases that make it to trial, judges and juries may be more inclined to believe law enforcement officers when they say their lives were threatened…..
    ……

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  49. OT: O.o

    The DC Circuit of Appeals issued the schedule for the June 12 hearing for Flynn’s mandamus request. Each side (Flynn, Sullivan and DOJ) only get 15 minutes for opening statment. Seems awfully low… is that normal??

    whembly (c30c83)

  50. Michael Beschloss
    @BeschlossDC

    After Pearl Harbor 1941, FDR refused suggestions to surround the White House with light tanks because it might look as if our democracy was under siege
    __ _

    Curtis Houck
    @CurtisHouck
    ·
    As you know, FDR interned people simply for their race but sure. Tell us how great he was on diversity and tolerance.

    _

    harkin (09e484)

  51. Ah gee, HOW CONVINCING. Anonymous sources say…

    Sorry, I don’t trust ANY never-trumper or left-wing reporter who attacks Trump based on anonymous sources. You know, like the anonymous White House, CIA, and FBI sources that told us that Russia-Trump collusion was 100% fact and “The walls were closing in on Trump”.

    OR the anonymous CNN/MSNBC/WaPo/NYT sources that attack Trump or have to been rebutted like every week by Trump officials.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  52. @51, Amazingly, when you’re not in a personality cult you can look at a person who did good thing and bad things and treat each accordingly.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  53. @52, you don’t believe it when there are names sources. It’s kind of like you don’t care about actual facts….

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  54. I see that creep Mitt Romney is attacking Trump again – without DIRECTLY attacking him. How *clever*. Someone asked Mittens about the Letter Mattis wrote so Romney told reporters he found the letter STUNNING and POWERFUL and then blathered about how Mattis is the greatest man EVER, and would share a foxhole with him.

    Which is laughable since Mittens has never been in the military and got out of Vietnam by going on a Mormon Mission to South America.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  55. @51 Hello? FDR surrounded the White House with US Marines and Infantry. You can see pictures of US Soldiers in their old style helmets guarding it. He didn’t use tanks? Of course he didn’t. We didn’t have enough Tanks in Dec 1941 to waste them on guard duty.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  56. Sorry, I don’t trust ANY never-trumper or left-wing reporter who attacks Trump based on anonymous sources.

    The only problem here is that you base your standard on who is being criticized. It’s wise not to trust anonymous sources. Trump’s whole rise to the presidency started with his tweet that an anonymous source told him that he had seen Obama’s real, Kenyan birth certificate.

    Still, don’t trust the critics. Just read Trump’s words. Look at his actions. He has told/shown us who he is. The 2020 election will be about what America is.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  57. Stinson has found only 110 law enforcement officers nationwide have been charged with murder or manslaughter in an on-duty shooting — despite the fact that around around 1,000 people are fatally shot by police annually, according to a database maintained by The Washington Post. Furthermore, only 42 officers were convicted. Fifty were not and 18 cases are still pending. …..[M]any of these convictions ended up being for a lesser offense — only five of these officers were convicted of murder (and did not have that conviction overturned).

    Why does Stinson think that “only” 110 officers being charged means we have to change the law. GO to the WaPo dataase. You’ll see that only 25% of those shot are black, and that almost everyone shot by the Police are armed in some way or another. ONLY 9-10 blacks – unarmed – were shot and killed in 2019. And the numbers are similar for 2015-2019.

    Look, if there ANY point in showing FACTS to liberals/leftists? You guys obviously think of the Facts and the Truth as a WEAPON to be used or discarded depending on whether it hurts “THE CAUSE”. That’s why I don’t care what the liberal/left thinks. They – the liberal left – are intellectually dishonest. Not everyone. Not the ones at Patterico. But otherwise….

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  58. Which is laughable since Mittens has never been in the military and got out of Vietnam by going on a Mormon Mission to South America.

    Have you, I mean in the US military? Did Mitt have “bone spurs”?

    It’s cool that you keep comparing people to Trump, and you think that reflects well on Trump.

    Two daughters of a New York podiatrist say that 50 years ago their father diagnosed President Donald Trump with bone spurs in his heels as a favor to the doctor’s landlord, Fred Trump, The New York Times reported Wednesday.

    Trump received five deferments from the draft for military service during the Vietnam War. He received four education deferments while he was a college student and a fifth deferment in 1968 for a medical exemption after he graduated.

    Larry Braunstein, who died in 2007, rented a ground floor office in a building owned by Trump in Jamaica, Queens. His daughters, Elysa Braunstein, 56, and Sharon Kessel, 53, told the Times that their father’s role in Trump’s diagnosis had become “family lore.”

    “It was something we would always discuss,” Elysa Braunstein told the Times. She and her sister are both Democrats who oppose Trump, according to the newspaper.

    Elysa Braunstein said their father made the diagnosis to gain access to the landlord and that she didn’t know if her father even examined the junior Trump.

    “I know it was a favor,” Elysa Braunstein said.

    “What he got was access to Fred Trump,” she told the Times. “If there was anything wrong in the building, my dad would call and Trump would take care of it immediately. That was the small favor that he got.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  59. We already knew they were lying but this puts more meat on the bone in a substantial way.

    Liars have to keep their stories straight.

    When you lie as much as this administration, it’s simply impossible.

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. @59.CK, everyone knows that Trump is a coward outside of Twitter. It’s like pointing out that he’s fat, or lazy or godless, or cheats on his wife with hookers. It’s all known, but his supporters don’t care about valor or christian values or any of that stuff.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  61. A sad but accurate analysis:

    Trump and the American Idiocracy

    Precisely 100 years ago, H.L. Mencken wrote:

    As democracy is perfected, the office [of president] represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. . . . On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    Now it is. Just in time for Donald Trump to mishandle a lethal pandemic and inflame an incendiary racial crisis. The cost in lives, and to our national spirit, has yet to be reckoned.

    […]

    Trump’s contempt for knowledge unleashes a related pathology which makes him as dangerous to our climate as he is to public health: the comprehensive incomprehension of his own intellectual deficiencies that melds him with his followers.

    Not only is Trump ignorant of his ignorance but, as George Will put it, “he does not know what it is to know something.” Hence our president’s most destructive lie: his claims of universal expertise.

    Repeatedly, Trump has claimed some variant of “nobody knows more than I do” regarding a multitude of complex subjects: fiscal policy, the Federal Reserve, trade, tariffs, global warming, geopolitics, fighting ISIS, military strategy in general—and, most recently, epidemiology and law enforcement. Even for a self-proclaimed genius, Trump’s range impresses.

    That’s the problem. Perceiving the infinity of all they can never know, true geniuses are disinclined to overstate their gifts. By contrast, Trump is a classic exemplar of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, named for two psychologists who demonstrated that the less knowledgeable and competent you are, the more you believe in your own superlative abilities. Such benighted folks, wrote Dunning and Kruger, not only “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the . . . ability to realize it.”

    Read the whole thing.

    Dave (1bb933)

  62. Which is laughable since Mittens has never been in the military and got out of Vietnam by going on a Mormon Mission to South America.

    rcocean (2e1c02) — 6/4/2020 @ 12:49 pm

    I thought it was Paris. I criticized him for it a lot. In hindsight I failed to recognize how bad a GOP candidate could be and should have been more appreciative that Romney is a decent human being. Still, my skepticism of politicians has never let me down. The politicians I believe in, they always seem to fall short, but the ones I don’t like, they usually make me feel psychic. Trump’s critics will never ever feel ashamed of themselves. Romney will die an old man very proud that he voted to impeach. Many many GOP senators will regret voting to carry water for Moscow Donnie. Ted Cruz could have a golden opportunity today to be the man who had a spine. It will be hilarious watching him complete the 360.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  63. Which is laughable since Mittens has never been in the military and got out of Vietnam by going on a Mormon Mission to South America.

    Right, because it’s okay for a draft dodger like Trump to insult the general but somehow it’s not okay for a Trump critic like Romney who didn’t serve to commend the general. It’s another classic example of Bizarro TrumpWorld logic.

    Paul Montagu (211372)

  64. #64
    Whatever is not okay for a Trump critic is perfectly fine for Trump. Thems the rules.

    Radegunda (89f220)

  65. Time123 (80b471) — 6/4/2020 @ 10:29 am

    Frost, I disagree. No one wants no police.

    We don’t disagree. This is exactly what I said.

    They want police that don’t use excessive force and are held accountable when they do. If that was what you mean by social justice you’re pretty close to how I see it.

    Well, control covers a lot of ground. You should dig deeper into what BLM and Antifa say they want. What you are describing as social justice is not exactly how they describe it. They are clear about this if you read past what the media claims they say. It’s also clear based on what they do. Some of the BLM locals used to have a list of beliefs that matched up well with the ten planks. Feel free to google “marxism black lives matter”. Lots of people are ok with marxism but what does community-based groups with full power over the police really mean in a marxist context? How is that different from democratically elected officials working within our existing system?

    Were you aware that one of the officer’s involved in the Floyd murder had previously been involved in beating a man stopped for questioning? The city paid 25K to settle the lawsuit and we was still on the street.

    Yes, I am aware.

    Time123 (80b471) — 6/4/2020 @ 10:30 am

    The lie you’re being told is that this situation is fine.

    Have I said everything is fine? No, I’ve said the opposite. Have I excused police violence? No, I haven’t. This is what you are pretending I believe because you’re having trouble with me criticizing BLM, Antifa, and the rioters. As I’ve been told more times than I can count two things can be true at the same time. There are issues with police violence. Should I repeat it since that is me saying everything is not fine. I know this isn’t emoting to the level you think is needed and you interpret that as me trying to dismiss the issue. Independent of those issues, BLM and Antifa have their own agenda and aren’t reliable partners. What you want to do is pretend that partnering with them isn’t exchanging one group of bad guys for another.

    frosty (f27e97)

  66. true geniuses are disinclined to overstate their gifts

    That’s why I’m so modest.

    Radegunda (89f220)

  67. true geniuses are disinclined to overstate their gifts

    Yup

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  68. I wish we had this outrage when the Obama administration undertook extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens without due process.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  69. Dustin @63,

    You are correct. Romney did his Mormon mission in France, not South America.

    My mother also served a Mormon mission in France, several years before Romney served his. Back then, female Mormon missionaries were a distinct minority. My mom even defied a Mormon General Authority (the top echelon of leadership in the church), who told her to marry her boyfriend instead of going on the mission. Good old mom. She has always blazed her own trail.

    My mom’s brother was an English professor at BYU. Romney was a student in one of his classes. (The Mormon world can be very small at times.) My uncle said Romney was very bright, and my uncle was a liberal! Yes, a BYU liberal! He told a story about his McGovern bumper sticker getting removed from his car while it was parked at the school.

    norcal (a5428a)

  70. Dustin (d59cff) — 6/4/2020 @ 11:30 am

    He picked Pence because he has leverage over him.

    Yes, his political career was dead without Trump, (he probably wasn’t going to win re-election as Governor of Indiana) and Trump could drop him from the ticket or freeze him out.

    Actually I think Pence was picked because some people close to Trump (Jared Kushner and Ivanka) wanted to prevent a truly terrible choice.

    Sammy Finkelman (157490)

  71. I wish we had this outrage when the Obama administration undertook extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens without due process.

    Tell me, what do you view as the difference between Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir ibn Zafar Khan in Yemen and protesters on the streets of America?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  72. I wish we had this outrage when the Obama administration undertook extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens without due process.

    Also

    CIA-ordered drone strikes were eventually ended by President Obama, who transferred control entirely to the U.S. military, under a separate legal authority. President Trump reversed this decision in 2017. A 2016 Obama executive order requiring an annual report of civilian deaths from US airstrikes outside combat zones was not complied with by the Trump administration for 2017 and was then revoked by an executive order in 2019.

    There were 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama’s eight years in office.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  73. You are correct. Romney did his Mormon mission in France, not South America.

    My mother also served a Mormon mission in France, several years before Romney served his. Back then, female Mormon missionaries were a distinct minority. My mom even defied a Mormon General Authority (the top echelon of leadership in the church), who told her to marry her boyfriend instead of going on the mission. Good old mom. She has always blazed her own trail.

    My mom’s brother was an English professor at BYU. Romney was a student in one of his classes. (The Mormon world can be very small at times.) My uncle said Romney was very bright, and my uncle was a liberal! Yes, a BYU liberal! He told a story about his McGovern bumper sticker getting removed from his car while it was parked at the school.

    norcal (a5428a) — 6/4/2020 @ 3:56 pm

    I’m sure at a very minimum the mission work was an excellent educational experience. I want to be clear my criticism of it wasn’t that I have some crazy problem with Mormons going around and sharing their views, but that in the primary I wished the GOP would select a veteran to lead us in wartime. It’s not a sufficient qualification to lead, but there is something to the idea that the guy asking people to risk their lives was also willing to.

    In hindsight I was way behind the times. Obama, Biden, Trump, Hillary, none of them served and none of them were as good as Romney (obviously). And my preference (Rick Perry) looks like a complete idiot.

    I am glad you have such fond views of your family. No Melania squints there.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  74. Tell me, what do you view as the difference between Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir ibn Zafar Khan in Yemen and protesters on the streets of America?

    Focus on their similarities, not their differences. All Americans are afforded legal rights and protections under the Constitution. Further, all humans are afforded dignity and human rights thanks to our Creator.

    Last time I checked, a jury had not reviewed the evidence against Awlaki or the other Americans assassinated, including Awlaki’s teenaged son, and found them guilty and ordered their execution.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  75. Each side (Flynn, Sullivan and DOJ) only get 15 minutes for opening statment. Seems awfully low… is that normal??

    Yes. SOP. Flynn, as the appellant, may get another five minutes for rebuttal. In complex cases, the parties can ask for additional time.

    nk (1d9030)

  76. Last time I checked, a jury had not reviewed the evidence against Awlaki or the other Americans assassinated, including Awlaki’s teenaged son, and found them guilty and ordered their execution.

    Did we put every Confederate who took up arms and made war against their country on trial before giving the Army permission to shoot at them?

    Dave (1bb933)

  77. “Look! Squirrel!” Unless Mr. The Many is citing Awlaki as precedent for Trump’s present buffoonery, it’s irrelevant deflection.

    nk (1d9030)

  78. I wish we had this outrage when the Obama administration undertook extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens without due process.

    Who said we didn’t?
    http://www.theforvm *dot* org/diary/bird-dog/another-investigation-obama-policy-necessary

    Paul Montagu (211372)


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