Patterico's Pontifications

6/2/2020

Hopefully Just a Few More Months of This Insanity

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Judge Sullivan’s brief is available. It’s excellent — every bit as well argued as Flynn’s was melodramatic and overwrought. That’s high praise.

Trump ordered some peaceful protesters tear gassed and fired upon with rubber bullets so he could go do a photo op and make a video of himself holding up a Bible at a church.

What more is there to say?

UPDATE: H/T to Colonel Klink for this on the ground perspective from Australian media of what it’s like to be attacked so the President can have his photo op.

227 Responses to “Hopefully Just a Few More Months of This Insanity”

  1. The other side of the Trump video from the foreign press.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  2. What more to say? How about a concrete solution or two. None of that — oh wait, other than get rid of Trump, which was the solution three plus years ago.

    Glad the viruses and police brutality and racism all ends once Trump is gone. Just a few more months….

    beer ‘n pretzels (efe0ef)

  3. This post is about DoJ’s favoritism towards one of his cronies and about the attack he ordered on peaceful protesters, not about viruses or racism. Hopefully such cronyism and thuggery will be greatly reduced once he is hopefully out of office.

    Next time make an honest argument.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  4. Yesterday, after alleged social media organization efforts to target suburban malls east of Sacramento (where the National Guard and curfew reduced looting from the previous two days), the National Guard was called in.

    They showed up at the malls, the stores closed and the mob decided not to show up.

    No one was hurt, no looting or destruction occurred.

    Should this be condemned?

    Here is how one person responded:

    Shay
    @kindly_shay

    If you are planning to go to a protest in El Dorado County, CA today or tomorrow. DO NOT GO. Many white supremacists, many cops, want you to come so they have an excuse to shoot you just for showing up. They don’t care if you’re peaceful. #BlackLivesMatter #Sacramentoprotests
    __ _

    Here’s a second opinion:

    Vic in NoCal
    @NocalVic
    ·
    Quick civics lesson for u: Literally the 1st & foremost function of government is to enforce order & safety in a society. It’s not to serve school lunches, or enforce diversity quotas, or form an anti-bullying task force or make u wear seatbelt or get a permit to build your deck.

    __

    Which is closer to reality?
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  5. Is this great? Should we keep it?

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/prepare-ye-the-way-of-the-trump-make-straight-paths-for-him When you’ve lost The Washington Examiner ….

    nk (1d9030)

  6. One, Judge Sullivan has a good lawyer representing him. I mentioned this in another thread, but Ms. Wilkinson clearly questioned AG Barr’s integrity, saying that his motion to dismiss provided “reason to question the ‘presumption of regularity’ that ordinarily attaches to prosecutorial decisions.” There were lots of reasons why.
    Two, in the campaign, Trump is making it easy for Biden to contrast himself. In one corner, there’s the old guy with questionable hair who committed violence against peaceful protesters (including forcibly expelling a priest and seminarian at St. John’s) so he could stand in front of a church he’s rarely attended, holding a book he’s never read. In the other corner is the old guy with questionable hair who is sending a message of reconciliation among races.
    Three, George Will, the first and final paragraphs:

    This unraveling presidency began with the Crybaby-in-Chief banging his spoon on his highchair tray to protest a photograph — a photograph — showing that his inauguration crowd the day before had been smaller than the one four years previous. Since then, this weak person’s idea of a strong person, this chest-pounding advertisement of his own gnawing insecurities, this low-rent Lear raging on his Twitter-heath has proven that the phrase malignant buffoon is not an oxymoron.
    […]
    Those who think our unhinged president’s recent mania about a murder two decades ago that never happened represents his moral nadir have missed the lesson of his life: There is no such thing as rock bottom. So, assume that the worst is yet to come. Which implicates national security: Abroad, anti-Americanism sleeps lightly when it sleeps at all, and it is wide-awake as decent people judge our nation’s health by the character of those to whom power is entrusted. Watching, too, are indecent people in Beijing and Moscow.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  7. @3: I’m sure the cronyism and favoritism that got Trump elected, and the thuggery promoted by Biden’s staffers will surely be reduced after the Democrats take office.

    beer ‘n pretzels (efe0ef)

  8. No joke. Trump is no longer worried about November. He is worried about August. That the GOP will kick him off the ticket. So all he wants to do right now is rile up his mouth-breathers and to hell with the country. He’s a pig. A corrupt, criminal, traitor pig.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. “ I’m sure the cronyism and favoritism that got Trump elected, and the thuggery promoted by Biden’s staffers will surely be reduced after the Democrats take office.”
    __

    If only we’d already elected a black president.

    If only Biden didn’t wait so long to enter politics…..

    70% of black kids would not STILL be raised in fatherless homes.

    50% of blacks would not STILL dropout of urban high schools

    25% of young black urban men would not STILL have criminal records.

    Blacks would not STILL kill 7K blacks every yr…..

    H/t Larry Elder
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  10. Like Trump and his kins give a hoot about all that except as dogwhistles for their racism.

    nk (1d9030)

  11. #8

    I wish Trump’s fears had a basis in fact. They don’t.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  12. 4… I’d say the second one is much closer, harkin. But this was before the people who should know better lost their F-ing minds. And there is a lot of them.

    Colonel Haiku (61bdd9)

  13. Hey Pat!
    You have a high opinion of the Wilkinson brief. What’s your opinion of the DOJ brief signed by the Solicitor General?

    TW2020 (4585fe)

  14. 6… Despite three years of ongoing horseschiff from the leadership of our nation’s premier law enforcement institutions and IC, Sullivan continues to impress lefties and NeverTrump.

    Colonel Haiku (61bdd9)

  15. Tell me again how Trump respects Christians and the teachings of Jesus.

    Would love a better source

    Just spoke with Rev. Gina Gerbasi of St. John’s Episcopal Church in Georgetown who was at St. John’s across from WH yesterday. She says she and others were driven from the area by force. “It was completely unprovoked. I didn’t hear bullhorns saying ‘the president’s coming.’”

    Gerbasi and others were standing on patio of church. “Then the tear gas started,” Gerbasi said. “All I’m doing is coughing.” “I’m wearing a collar,” she said. “I didn’t hear a warning. It was completely unprovoked,” she added. “He turned it into a literal battleground.”

    Gerbasi says she had no choice but to run with the others. “This was not a safe enough environment where I could stay ‘stop in the name of God.’ This was dangerous. They were in riot mode,” she said of the forces used to drive out the protesters.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  16. Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell
    @RepDMP

    History will remember the night the president cowered in the dark as his country burned for justice.
    [photo of darkened white house]
    __

    Hillary Clinton
    @HillaryClinton
    Elections matter. http://Vote.org
    [photo of darkened white house]
    __ _

    jerylbier
    @JerylBier
    ·
    Per the @AP’s @AmandaSeitz, the photo going around of a dark White House is an old 2015 manipulated photo:
    https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1267863426547822592?s=20
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  17. Here’s a summary from Tim Carney.

    In short, Trump ordered violence by others in order to create an illusion of his own strength and courage.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  18. St. John’s should file criminal and civil complaints against Trump for trespassing. Seriously. Lock him up!

    nk (1d9030)

  19. Judge Sullivan’s response to the mandamus petition was well-written (as it should be given the reputation of the attorneys involved) and made the arguments that it should make. But it seemed to lack fire to me. Maybe that was the result of a conscious decision by the attorney. Sometimes, if your position is that all that needs to happen is for the court to follow normal procedure, you draft a brief that, like this one, has an air of “yawn… nothing much going on here, Judge Sullivan hasn’t made a ruling on anything yet, no need for you at the Circuit level to step in to correct an error that he hasn’t even made, just let him do his job.”

    The brief did repeatedly emphasize how Flynn had affirmed his guilty plea twice in open court, despite the judge giving him every opportunity to back away from it, before he got new counsel and sought to change his plea. The brief was good on that, as far as it went, but I wish it had gone farther in addressing the issue of why Flynn sought to change his plea. My understanding is that Flynn’s side has argued there was wrongdoing by the former prosecutors and ineffective assistance by conflicted former counsel at Covington. The brief does mention this, at pp. 34-5, but it sort of gives it kid-gloves treatment, saying that if Flynn’s latest statements are true then maybe there’s no reason to find him in contempt. I think it might have been better if it had included a few sentences along the lines of “nothing in the record supports Flynn’s request to change his plea.” The appellate court has got to be wondering what has really gone on in the trial court, and if you’re backing Sullivan, you don’t want the appellate justices thinking that this whole thing is a mess so let’s just shut it down.

    RL formerly in Glendale (40f5aa)

  20. NJRob, Are you providing more context and information generally or are you implying that the initial claims are overblown & exaggerated? I’m still trying to figure things out so no judgement either way, just want to be clear.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  21. ah yes the woman who actually received money from the head of burisma, more of that,

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/2/lachlan-murdoch-declares-black-lives-matter-in-mem/

    narciso (7404b5)

  22. Le Duck L’Orange keeps tweeting that Minnesota should thank him. Does anybody have any idea for what?

    nk (1d9030)

  23. ah broken windows, james q wilson wonders why did I bother,

    narciso (7404b5)

  24. Sean Davis
    @seanmdav
    ·
    Mueller specifically accused Flynn of lying about discussing financial sanctions levied pursuant to Executive Order 13757. We now know Flynn only discussed expulsions done by the State Dept. and never discussed EO 13757 financial sanctions. Mueller lied.

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/29/declassified-flynn-transcripts-contradict-key-mueller-claims-against-flynn/
    __ _

    Teacloc
    @Teacloc
    ·
    To be fair, Andrew Weisman lied. Mueller just put his name on it.
    __ _

    Jeff Moore
    @JeffMoo09235241
    ·
    And Andrew Weisman was caught falsifying evidence in past convictions He was reprimanded by the US Supreme court.
    _ _

    Brent Scher
    @BrentScher
    ·
    The @JoeBiden campaign cancelled the Andrew Weissmann fundraiser scheduled for tonight. An @MSNBC spox tells me he will stay on with the network…apparently signing on to fundraise for a candidate doesn’t break their policy.

    __

    harkin (9c4571)

  25. NJRob, Are you providing more context and information generally or are you implying that the initial claims are overblown & exaggerated? I’m still trying to figure things out so no judgement either way, just want to be clear.

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 6/2/2020 @ 11:06 am

    I’m implying nothing other than offering a dissenting point of view because the media has a vested interest in framing it from a particular perspective. My point is the facts are currently in dispute.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  26. NJRob (4d595c) — 6/2/2020 @ 10:44 am

    Smells like FakeNews TearGasTrutherism to me.
    By all accounts, the protesters didn’t tear-gas themselves or fire bullets at each other. They got video.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  27. Actually nothing is in dispute.

    The Park Police are only claiming they used a less potent form of tear gas. Carney specifically mentioned the people throwing water bottles to make the point that the police went after groups of protesters who were not throwing stuff at them.

    The only dispute is over the motive for clearing out the protesters. The Park Police may not have been told the reason. They were not the only federal LEOs present day after all.

    Kishnevi (ae876f)

  28. Rob, thank you for the reply.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  29. I’m implying nothing other than offering a dissenting point of view because the media has a vested interest in framing it from a particular perspective. My point is the facts are currently in dispute.

    No, in camera reality exists, it contradicts your invented reality. As Paul shared the video, you could have watched live on the TeeVee, or the 10,000 other sources.

    And you’re own linked to article specifically says the “Secret Service was mum on their tactics.” The Park Police were one of 5 agencies deployed on the scene.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  30. BTW this church visit yesterday shows Trump’s incompetence in full.

    Instead of waving a bible around like it was a trophy, he could have walked around the building to where the fire damage was, inspect it for moment, and given a little speech of outrage and promise this kind of thing would not happen again. But I guess neither he nor his staff can think.

    And what was the point of visiting the JPII shrine today? Is he trying to suggest he’s fighting Communists like the late Pope did?

    Kishnevi (ae876f)

  31. Klink,

    You are incorrect again. But I appreciate the bad faith arguments.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  32. it didn’t address the issues the court of appeals demanded, but since justice hasn’t been a consideration in any of this, it’s par for the course, although the stevens precedent should be in mind, re prosecutorial malpractice,

    narciso (7404b5)

  33. NJRob, I know CK has a history of being rude to you. But his points are valid. We can see the protesters being fired upon. There are first hand accounts available that force was used on people protesting peacefully and there were several LEO present.

    It very possible that the park police didn’t use tear gas. It’s possible that they used smoke grenades and another agency used tear gas. I’ll take their spokesman at their word, but that doesn’t mean the accusation about the use of force aren’t valid.

    Here’s a statement by “Rev. Gina Gerbasi of St. John’s Episcopal Church in Georgetown who was at St. John’s across from WH yesterday. She says she and others were driven from the area by force. “It was completely unprovoked. I didn’t hear bullhorns saying ‘the president’s coming.’”

    Gerbasi and others were standing on patio of church. “Then the tear gas started,” Gerbasi said. “All I’m doing is coughing.” “I’m wearing a collar,” she said. “I didn’t hear a warning. It was completely unprovoked,” she added. “He turned it into a literal battleground.”

    Gerbasi says she had no choice but to run with the others. “This was not a safe enough environment where I could stay ‘stop in the name of God.’ This was dangerous. They were in riot mode,” she said of the forces used to drive out the protesters.”

    Being a person of faith doesn’t prove honesty, but it makes me take their words seriously. YMMV

    Time123 (53ef45)

  34. This post is actually a pretty fair portrait of the orange. An impotent buffoon trying to shield a crony sellout to foreign interests while making war on Americans.

    As for the tear gas, I’ll believe the priestess who was driven away from her church by it. Not the anonymous (if even existent) Park Police source planting dezinformatsiya with a friendly reporter.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. Judge Sullivan’s brief is available. It’s excellent — every bit as well argued as Flynn’s was melodramatic and overwrought. That’s high praise.

    I read (or rather his lawyer’s brief) and I found it very much a CYA that really didn’t address the Appellate’s request as to how his actions conforms to Fokker.

    However, the DOJ’s brief:
    https://www.scribd.com/document/463960617/DOJ-Flynn-Response

    This, however, tore apart Sullivan’s argument in ways that differentiates and ASSERTS Article II v. Article III powers.

    Here’s an Amicus in support of Flynn:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Esf341oEGYMSCEiHUCKJW2MpfM97kU2E/view

    Here’s another Amicus in support of Flynn tailored to rule 48 and whether contempt of court could be applied:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1irwKgEx169E48d73RHj-nWZQNQNLxPAh/view

    whembly (c30c83)

  36. BTW this church visit yesterday shows Trump’s incompetence in full.

    Instead of waving a bible around like it was a trophy, he could have walked around the building to where the fire damage was, inspect it for moment, and given a little speech of outrage and promise this kind of thing would not happen again. But I guess neither he nor his staff can think.

    He could have, but he was interested in doing that. Not by a long shot. It was a self-serving act designed, or PR stunt, if you will. It gave the illusion of him being a godly individual, a leader who would stand on Christian values to protect certain Americans. It was political theater, nothing more, nothing less. Tell me, how has he inspired the public to unite, through all of this. Or have his words and actions been more to incite.

    Dana (0feb77)

  37. And what was the point of visiting the JPII shrine today? Is he trying to suggest he’s fighting Communists like the late Pope did?

    St. John’s Episcopal yesterday, St. John Paul II shrine today. Some unfortunate synagogue better brace itself for a Trumpian photo op coming up right away.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  38. The transcripts released Friday make clear that Flynn’s only request to Kislyak concerned the expulsion of the Russian diplomats and not the sanctions instituted by then-President Obama’s executive order. Yet Mueller’s team charged Flynn with lying to the FBI about his discussion with Kislyak about sanctions.

    Mueller’s Team Lied to the Court and the American People
    While Flynn pleaded guilty to that charge, he did so having not seen the transcript of his actual conversation with Kislyak. In seeking to withdraw his guilty plea, Flynn said he still doesn’t “remember if I discussed sanctions on a phone call with Ambassador Kislyak.” As Flynn’s attorney Sidney Powell told me, his defense team “has been asking for the transcripts and recordings of his conversations with Ambassador Kislyak for almost a year.”

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/01/new-flynn-transcripts-confirm-mueller-team-lied-to-the-court-and-the-country/

    The release of the transcripts of the Flynn conversation with Russian ambassador Kislyak prove that general Flynn is innocent of all charges. Mueller‘s team lied about the contents of the conversation. Government prosecutor van Grack refused to release the transcripts as ordered by Judge Sullivan. The 302 was edited and contains things that aren’t in the handwritten notes.

    Everybody involved in what I believe to be a criminal conspiracy to frame general Flynn should go to jail. If they have a law license they should lose their license to practice law. It now seems obvious that general Flynn‘s first law firm had a conflict of interest and represented their own needs instead of general Flynn’s. They should be forced to return every single penny back to general Flynn with interest and punitive damages. On top of that all the people involved in this conspiracy should be made to reimburse General Flynn for his current legal fees.

    Those who say “but general Flynn pled guilty“ must remember that he only did that under duress. When van Grack threatened to go after General Flynn‘s son unless he pled guilty, he knew it would cost millions of dollars to defend his son even though he was innocent. General Flynn pled guilty to protect his son.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  39. Dana, With all due respect, i think using force to drive a revered doing what they felt was ministry from their church is a good deal less than a photo op.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  40. @37

    BTW this church visit yesterday shows Trump’s incompetence in full.

    Instead of waving a bible around like it was a trophy, he could have walked around the building to where the fire damage was, inspect it for moment, and given a little speech of outrage and promise this kind of thing would not happen again. But I guess neither he nor his staff can think.

    He could have, but he was interested in doing that. Not by a long shot. It was a self-serving act designed, or PR stunt, if you will. It gave the illusion of him being a godly individual, a leader who would stand on Christian values to protect certain Americans. It was political theater, nothing more, nothing less. Tell me, how has he inspired the public to unite, through all of this. Or have his words and actions been more to incite.

    Dana (0feb77) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:16 pm

    I think it signals that he’s serious about it. Regardless… he’s not doing it for those protestors (they ain’t going to listen to him anyways), he’s doing it to signal strength to the rest of the country.

    I don’t buy that the folks in the area were “peaceful” as there are documented pictures/videos that the crowd was unruly, throwing rocks/debris to the park rangers.

    I think the hubbub over Tear Gas vs Smoke canisters is a red herring. Both are knarly and yes, you’ll be coughing up a lung with the Smoke canisters.

    Regardless, the media has no interesting in reporting things accurately here so I’m just jaded as all hell here.

    Mere hours ago, folks were whining that Trump went into the WH bunker and now they’re whining that he’s addressing this unruly crowds at his frigging doorsteps.

    whembly (c30c83)

  41. Hopefully Just a Few More Months of This Insanity

    And just why do you think the insanity will stop in a few more months?

    Look at NYC. Radical mayor, liberal governor. Total mess. That’s the future under a Biden administration.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  42. Dana, With all due respect, i think using force to drive a revered doing what they felt was ministry from their church is a good deal less than a photo op.

    I don’t think the Trump Admin or the Park Service Police intended for that to happen. I think, typical of them, they just bulldozed their way through in the usual unthinking manner.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  43. “Cuomo, a Democrat, said that he had offered to send the National Guard to New York City and that de Blasio, who is also a Democrat, had not accepted the offer. In comments that at times appeared to be thinly veiled threats, Cuomo repeatedly noted that a way to override de Blasio on the matter would be to “displace the mayor.”“

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/02/cuomo-urges-de-blasio-to-use-more-cops-against-looters-after-nyc-protests.html

    He should just threaten to send him to a nursing home.

    Btw – everyone condemns Cuomo’s offer of the National Guard to protect people and property in unhinged NYC right? I’m sure Amash condemns this offer of ‘military force on American streets’.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  44. I don’t buy that the folks in the area were “peaceful” as there are documented pictures/videos that the crowd was unruly, throwing rocks/debris to the park rangers.

    Tim Carney is a conservative that writes for the conservative Washington Examiner.

    Here’s what he writes based on what he say at the scene.

    The protest was peaceful. Some protesters angrily yelled across the fence barricade at the members of the Secret Service, who were arrayed in riot gear with armor, masks, billy clubs, and plastic shields. But mostly, the protesters were chanting and waving signs.

    Then shortly after 6:15, the lines of Secret Service began marching forward, pushing the crowds back. Because the officers were often standing face-to-face with protesters, and because the advances by the officers went as far as 20 yards at a time, this inevitably involved police shoving otherwise peaceful protesters (sometimes before, sometimes after, a verbal demand to move).

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  45. I don’t think the Trump Admin or the Park Service Police intended for that to happen. I think, typical of them, they just bulldozed their way through in the usual unthinking manner.

    JVW (54fd0b) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:26 pm

    Do you feel that makes it better?
    If anyone involved respected the church at all they would have taken some steps to do this in a respectful way.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  46. Here’s a fisking on Sullivan’s response from @reeveslawstl (an appellate practitioner) who largely disagrees with Gabrial Malor (tweets on main post here who also is an appellate practitioner)…

    THREAD
    1) In his brief filed today, Judge Sullivan makes the arguments I anticipated in my amicus brief (my amicus brief is linked below, along with Judge Sullivan’s).

    2) Judge Sullivan’s primary argument is that mandamus cannot issue because here, unlike in Fokker, there has been no ruling one way or the other on the motion to dismiss.

    3) But as I point out in my amicus brief, mandamus is available not only where a district court judge DENIES the DOJ’s mtn to dismiss, but also where it REFUSES TO RULE on the matter through an UNREASONABLE DELAY, which is what has happened here.
    https://www.scribd.com/document/463950323/Jmr-Response-1

    4) In addition, Judge Sullivan argues that district courts DO, in fact, have discretion over whether to grant the DOJ’s mtn to dismiss, even if the defendant consents, and must examine the “public interest.”

    5) In support of this argument, Judge Sullivan cites the early-1970s DC Circuit case of Ammidown.

    6) But as I point out in my amicus brief, Ammidown’s holding on this was pure dicta (that is, non-binding), and cannot be squared away with Fokker and subsequent SCOTUS precedent.

    7) Indeed, the Seventh Circuit–in an opinion by Judge Posner and joined by Judges Easterbrook and Wood–note that Ammindown’s holding in this regard is dicta.

    8) This is no small matter, because while Judges Posner and Easterbrook are “conservatives,” Judge Wood is very much a liberal, and was on Obama’s shortlist for a SCOTUS vacancy.

    9) Judge Sullivan fails to take into account how here, the Government is seeking dismissal WITH PREJUDICE.

    10) A district court may be justified in denying the Govt.’s mtd if it was seeking to dismsiss WITHOUT PREJUDICE, as there would be a risk of subjecting Flynn to multiple repeated prosecutions.

    11) But where, as here, the Govt. is seeking dismissal WITH PREJUDICE–meaning it would be barred from ever re-filing charges–and thus is not trying to give itself a Mulligan or do-over on the prosecution…

    12) Judge Sullivan cannot deny the motion or call for amicus briefing on the matter without runing afoul of the separation of powers.

    13) Judge Sullivan’s brief makes no serious attempt to analyze any of these issues.
    END

    whembly (c30c83)

  47. @45

    I don’t buy that the folks in the area were “peaceful” as there are documented pictures/videos that the crowd was unruly, throwing rocks/debris to the park rangers.

    Tim Carney is a conservative that writes for the conservative Washington Examiner.

    Here’s what he writes based on what he say at the scene.

    The protest was peaceful. Some protesters angrily yelled across the fence barricade at the members of the Secret Service, who were arrayed in riot gear with armor, masks, billy clubs, and plastic shields. But mostly, the protesters were chanting and waving signs.

    Then shortly after 6:15, the lines of Secret Service began marching forward, pushing the crowds back. Because the officers were often standing face-to-face with protesters, and because the advances by the officers went as far as 20 yards at a time, this inevitably involved police shoving otherwise peaceful protesters (sometimes before, sometimes after, a verbal demand to move).

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:29 pm

    No one person can possible say 100% everyone was peaceful. I’ve seen plenty of Twitter and facebook posts show that the crowd *was* unruly and debris as thrown at the LEO. Further more, the crowd was warned at least 3 times to disperse over loudspeakers according to those folks posting this.

    It’s possible, from Carney’s vantage point, the folks around him were fine.

    We have too many conflicting stories here…and the simplest answer is that some were legit peaceful and others were unruly (throwing debris, et el).

    whembly (c30c83)

  48. 42… that is a real head scratcher. But extremely amusing!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  49. 47 – Whembly

    Thanks for posting that.

    Precise and to the point.

    harkin (9c4571)

  50. Klink,

    You are incorrect again. But I appreciate the bad faith arguments.

    That’s nice, care to point out where, please be specific?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. 39… I prefer reality, as much as you appear to, Tanny. Thanks for this moment of clarity.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  52. Ryan Knight Rose
    @ProudSocialist
    ·
    Biden moments ago said we should train cops to shoot unarmed people “in the leg instead of the heart.”

    This is so problematic. Cops shouldn’t shoot unarmed people at all.

    How much longer are Democrats going to pretend that @JoeBiden’s cut out for this?
    __ _

    President Raprock Obiden Bama
    @aturtlenamedbo1

    Joe “shoot them in the leg” Biden also advises moms against gun violence to use a shotgun for protection.

    https://twitter.com/aturtlenamedbo1/status/1267516587814187008?s=20
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  53. Precise and to the point.

    Actually it’s all bluster. He’s making an argument that a district judge does not have a power which the Rules of Procedure specifically grant district judges.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  54. JVW

    “ I don’t think the Trump Admin or the Park Service Police intended for that to happen. I think, typical of them, they just bulldozed their way through in the usual unthinking manner.”

    Check out the LAPD in Van Nuys – lack of training, unthinking etc. it’s really bad:

    Okkervil River FanBlog
    @OkkervilBot
    okkervilriver: RT ArashMarkazi: A black family tried to get the attention of the police to protect a neighborhood store in Van Nuys and were immediately handcuffed.

    https://twitter.com/OkkervilBot/status/1267691521362591745?s=20

    harkin (9c4571)

  55. Tanny O’Haley (8a06bc) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:22 pm

    Actually, the transcripts confirm the FBI case.

    And the claim that Flynn needed the transcript to remember what he said on his own phone call is of course nonsensical. Unless he’s got early onset Alzheimer’s. And even if he does, he should have had his own notes.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  56. @54

    Precise and to the point.

    Actually it’s all bluster. He’s making an argument that a district judge does not have a power which the Rules of Procedure specifically grant district judges.

    Kishnevi (083e7a) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:58 pm

    Not according to the DC Appellate Court…in 2016 they concluded that “the ‘leave of court’ authority gives no power to a district court to deny a prosecutor’s Rule 48(a) motion to dismiss charges based on a disagreement with the prosecution’s exercise of charging authority.” U.S. v. Fokker Services B.V., 818 F.3d 733, 742 (D.C. Cir. 2016).

    whembly (c30c83)

  57. Hopefully Just a Few More Months of This Insanity

    Inshallah.

    Dave (1bb933)

  58. Btw – everyone condemns Cuomo’s offer of the National Guard to protect people and property in unhinged NYC right? I’m sure Amash condemns this offer of ‘military force on American streets’.

    Cuomo is doing what every other governor is doing.
    Trump on the other hand threatened to send in regular troops to be used against the local population with no co-ordination with state or local authorities.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  59. No one person can possible say 100% everyone was peaceful. I’ve seen plenty of Twitter and facebook posts show that the crowd *was* unruly and debris as thrown at the LEO. Further more, the crowd was warned at least 3 times to disperse over loudspeakers according to those folks posting this.

    It’s possible, from Carney’s vantage point, the folks around him were fine.

    We have too many conflicting stories here…and the simplest answer is that some were legit peaceful and others were unruly (throwing debris, et el).

    I agree it’s not going to be 100% one way or another. But it seems clear to me that a lot of force was used for Trump to “show strength” that didn’t need to be used. This included tear gassing a reverend and driving them from their own church. I guess you’re OK with that?

    Time123 (53ef45)

  60. whembly (c30c83) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:05 pm

    Except the prosecution lost its ability to do that the moment Flynn pled guilty.
    Among other differences.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  61. Do you feel that makes it better?
    If anyone involved respected the church at all they would have taken some steps to do this in a respectful way.

    If Trump was as strong and courageous as he wants people to think he is, he’d go to a black church. There’s a few of them in Washington.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  62. “….the government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak … as being spit on by the rest of the world.”

    Trump puked this up about Tiananmen Square.

    noel (4d3313)

  63. Except the prosecution lost its ability to do that the moment Flynn pled guilty.
    Among other differences.

    Prosecutorial misconduct will eventually be sanctioned. Rat bastards gonna pay.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. 64. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:17 pm

    Prosecutorial misconduct will eventually be sanctioned. Rat bastards gonna pay.<

    No, they have qualified, if not absolutw,. immunity, and I don’t think Flynn has a case against the government, either. He did lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  65. Hey, while this is going on, 107,783 Americans are now dead from that other thing that hasn’t ended yet.

    Everyone better pray that all these young people protesting/rioting/looting only die at a 0.5% rate for Covid, and they don’t live with their parents or grandparents.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  66. At the moment, there’s no actual evidence of misconduct, no matter what Tucker and the Federalist tell you. Despite all your concern with corruption, you’re actually defending it.

    Remember
    Trump and the FBI can be equally corrupt. And there is more than enough evidence against Trump than the FBI.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  67. Sammy, I assume the Colonel was referring to sanctions and penalties by the courts and bar associations.

    Kishnevi (083e7a)

  68. Time123 (52fb0e) — 6/2/2020 @ 12:24 pm

    Dana, With all due respect, i think using force to drive a revered doing what they felt was ministry from their church is a good deal less than a photo op.

    Hopfully the reverend was following all of the COVID guidelines.

    frosty (f27e97)

  69. @69 what a disingenuous thing for you to say.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  70. BTW, it was AG Barr who was behind the violent displacement of protesters yesterday, all so that Trump could look like a brave man, walking out in the open to St. John’s Episcopal, after earlier being humiliated in the media for hiding in his bunker. If there was a worse, more deceptively dishonest AG in American history, someone tell me because I can’t think of one.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  71. @61

    whembly (c30c83) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:05 pm

    Except the prosecution lost its ability to do that the moment Flynn pled guilty.
    Among other differences.

    Kishnevi (083e7a) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:11 pm

    Why do you (and others making this point) keep ignoring that defendants CAN petition to withdraw their plea?

    So, no, the prosecution doesn’t all the suddenly lose that ability.

    whembly (c30c83)

  72. Except the prosecution lost its ability to do that the moment Flynn pled guilty.
    Among other differences.

    Prosecutorial misconduct will eventually be sanctioned. Rat bastards gotta pay.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  73. @65

    64. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:17 pm
    Prosecutorial misconduct will eventually be sanctioned. Rat bastards gonna pay.<

    No, they have qualified, if not absolutw,. immunity, and I don’t think Flynn has a case against the government, either. He did lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:23 pm

    I don’t think he willingly lied. He plead guilty WITHOUT seeing the transcript.

    What Sullivan is seemingly mad about, is that he thinks Flynn lied to the court about lying to the FBI in taking the plea deal.

    However, under the advise of his attorneys at the time (whom were grossly conflicted) he plead guilty to the false statement charge to stop an overzealous prosecution and to mitigate monetary costs of continual defense.

    Its indisputable that people plead guilty to crimes in order to avoid a full prosecution or other strategic decisions…even if they believed they were innocent.

    whembly (c30c83)

  74. “Its indisputable that people plead guilty to crimes in order to avoid a full prosecution or other strategic decisions…even if they believed they were innocent.”

    Are we gonna let these other folks out of jail too, or just Flynn?

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  75. 70. @69 what a disingenuous thing for you to say

    The man cares deeply about his fellow man. Where’s the beef?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. @75

    “Its indisputable that people plead guilty to crimes in order to avoid a full prosecution or other strategic decisions…even if they believed they were innocent.”

    Are we gonna let these other folks out of jail too, or just Flynn?

    Davethulhu (55869f) — 6/2/2020 @ 2:25 pm

    Sure. You can donate here:
    https://www.innocenceproject.org/donate/?f_src=FY20_web_x_gen_nmat_campTop000Button_Main

    whembly (c30c83)

  77. Ouch

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  78. And there is more than enough evidence against Trump than the FBI.

    As if they’re on equal footing. There are known remedies for misconduct by a president, elections and impeachment being two.

    What are the remedies for FBI misconduct? Give me some remedy examples that have actually happened, or try claiming that the FBI has never committed misconduct ever.

    beer ‘n pretzels (63146f)

  79. Time123 (52fb0e) — 6/2/2020 @ 2:00 pm

    @69 what a disingenuous thing for you to say.

    How many days ago was it when “a revered doing what they felt was ministry” had to be done within the context of COVID? But now it’s disingenuous?

    I digress and I know that is not the point you were trying to make. Your reply summarizes my feelings about a lot of the comments in this thread. These riots aren’t about Floyd anymore and any random “protest” associated with this doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt on “peaceful” with or without a minister.

    With the church, I don’t know enough about this yet to start putting on the mantle of the True Christian and even if I did I don’t think I would. I’m skeptical of those who think they do and are.

    frosty (f27e97)

  80. @76 The man cares deeply about his fellow man. Where’s the beef?

    Virtue signaling; it’s what’s for dinner.

    frosty (f27e97)

  81. Why do you (and others making this point) keep ignoring that defendants CAN petition to withdraw their plea?

    Which the judge can allow or not allow. And the judge decides, not the prosecution.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a)

  82. “Sure. You can donate here:
    https://www.innocenceproject.org/donate/?f_src=FY20_web_x_gen_nmat_campTop000Button_Main

    Your link is broken, but it’s also ridiculous. Surely the effort that has gone to free Flynn should be provided to these other innocent folks as well?

    Perhaps we can settle for systematic changes. The DOJ is pushing for that, rather than making an exception for Flynn, right?

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  83. @82

    Why do you (and others making this point) keep ignoring that defendants CAN petition to withdraw their plea?

    Which the judge can allow or not allow. And the judge decides, not the prosecution.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a) — 6/2/2020 @ 2:40 pm

    Right. That means… the case isn’t over just because he originally plead guilty. The case is over when sentence is rendered and judgement is filed.

    whembly (c30c83)

  84. @83

    “Sure. You can donate here:
    https://www.innocenceproject.org/donate/?f_src=FY20_web_x_gen_nmat_campTop000Button_Main”

    Your link is broken, but it’s also ridiculous. Surely the effort that has gone to free Flynn should be provided to these other innocent folks as well?

    Perhaps we can settle for systematic changes. The DOJ is pushing for that, rather than making an exception for Flynn, right?

    Davethulhu (55869f) — 6/2/2020 @ 2:42 pm

    Link:
    https://www.innocenceproject.org/

    Go ahead and donate to contribute the cause.

    Flynn has a defense vigorously defending his interests.

    And, no, DOJ isn’t making an exception. Its undeniable that Flynn was railroaded here and the DOJ is right to drop the case.

    whembly (c30c83)

  85. Actually, the transcripts confirm the FBI case.

    And the claim that Flynn needed the transcript to remember what he said on his own phone call is of course nonsensical. Unless he’s got early onset Alzheimer’s. And even if he does, he should have had his own notes.

    Kishnevi (083e7a) — 6/2/2020 @ 1:03 pm

    No, the transcript of the telephone conversation proves that the question they say he is lying about is not in the transcript. How can he lie about something that did not happen?

    General Flynn pled guilty under duress.

    Did you read the article?

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  86. There are some people here, and I will not name their names, who do not view things a right or wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral, honest or dishonest. They view then SOLELY through the prism of Helps Trump vs Hurts Trump. There are folks like this in either camp and it is tiresome and madding.

    I wish they would stop.

    Some facts: Trump did not kill Floyd. Trump has not encouraged a single person to riot, loot or otherwise act out. He has not issued a single order to the military, and probably will not (mainly because the Constitution bars him from intervening in incidents of civil unrest unless asked).

    Yet he is being blamed by some for all of this.

    The tear gas was stupid, or course, but it was not necessarily Trump’s stupid. Thoughtlessness is his hallmark, and that would have required thought.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. I’ve been reading this site since I believe 2004. I really wish there was a way that I could do a thumbs up on certain comments. Since I can’t do that thank you whembly and as always Colonel Haiku.

    Which the judge can allow or not allow. And the judge decides, not the prosecution.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a) — 6/2/2020 @ 2:40 pm

    I read that that is not true of DOJ cases because the DOJ works directly for the President of the United States. The DOJ can decide when the case ends.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  88. And I have to stop reacting to them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. The DOJ is the exception to the rule.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  90. “Go ahead and donate to contribute the cause.
    Flynn has a defense vigorously defending his interests.”

    Flynn has the Attorney General vigorously defending his interests.

    “And, no, DOJ isn’t making an exception. Its undeniable that Flynn was railroaded here and the DOJ is right to drop the case.”

    This isn’t what I asked. Surely the grave miscarriage of justice that you’re claiming Flynn has faced would require a systemic change.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  91. Right. That means… the case isn’t over just because he originally plead guilty. The case is over when sentence is rendered and judgement is filed.

    Obviously. But the ability of the prosecution to charge ends well before the case does.

    An obvious example would be if the DOJ had filed new charges for the same actions after he had pled guilty. Wouldn’t you go “whoa!” if that had happened?

    Kishnevi (0feb5a)

  92. General Flynn pled guilty under duress.

    This “duress” business is a red herring. He had attorneys to knock his transgressions down to a single offense in exchange for cooperating with the Special Counsel. His Q&A with Judge Sullivan in December 2018 made clear that he knew what did, and that he did it with eyes open.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  93. @92 Indeed. The Special Counsel regulation under the DOJ is effectively dead.

    whembly (c30c83)

  94. ” The Special Counsel regulation under the DOJ is effectively dead.”

    Ah,so people only plead guilty under duress when there’s a special counsel.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  95. “Action packed, PeeWee!”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/377481/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. “He has not issued a single order to the military, and probably will not (mainly because the Constitution bars him from intervening in incidents of civil unrest unless asked).”

    President Donald Trump ordered military aircraft to fly above the nation’s capital Monday night as a “show of force” against demonstrators protesting the death of George Floyd, according to two Department of Defense officials.

    Show-of-force missions are designed to intimidate and, in combat zones, warn opposing forces of potential military action if provoked. The officials, who insisted on anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss ongoing operations publicly, did not say how many or what type of aircraft had been mobilized.

    Videos and photographs posted on social media showed helicopters flying low over buildings and hovering just above groups who were on the street despite a district-wide curfew.

    On Tuesday, roughly 700 members of the Army’s 82nd Airborne Division had arrived at two military bases near Washington. Another 1,400 soldiers are ready to be mobilized within an hour, the two Pentagon officials said. The soldiers are armed and have riot gear as well as bayonets.

    The officials said the mission has been named “Operation Themis.” In Greek mythology, Themis was a titaness of divine law and order, whose symbols are the scales of justice.

    “The tear gas was stupid, or course, but it was not necessarily Trump’s stupid. Thoughtlessness is his hallmark, and that would have required thought.”

    Attorney General William Barr ordered law enforcement officials to clear Lafayette Park and push back the perimeter around the White House when he arrived there Monday evening, leading to police using tear gas to disperse protesters.

    A person familiar with the matter tells The Associated Press that Barr expected the perimeter to have been extended much earlier Monday. The person could not discuss the matter publicly and spoke to AP on condition of anonymity.

    The person said officials had met that morning and decided the perimeter had to be moved by at least one full block after multiple fires were set in the park the night before. They said that was expected to happen by Monday afternoon.

    The person said Barr was surprised it hadn’t been done when he arrived in the early evening and directed action to be taken. They said he assumed police would use “typical crowd control measures” against protesters who resisted commands to clear the area.

    Both sourced from this feed: https://apnews.com/e4b7abdbf3e59eb3668e4e9e51def340

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  97. No, the transcript of the telephone conversation proves that the question they say he is lying about is not in the transcript. How can he lie about something that did not happen?

    General Flynn pled guilty under duress.

    Did you read the article?

    I have read the transcript. It shows Flynn lied.

    I don’t read sites I know are garbage. Therefore I don’t read The Federalist. The truth is generally the opposite of what they say.

    The DOJ can decide when the case ends.

    That’s nonsensical. The DOJ has to work under the same basic rules as every other prosecutor. In every case, after a certain point, the judge gets to decide these things. In Flynn’s case, that was when he pled guilty.

    The judge could allow him to withdraw his plea, and then the DOJ would get back its charging authority.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a)

  98. @94

    General Flynn pled guilty under duress.

    This “duress” business is a red herring. He had attorneys to knock his transgressions down to a single offense in exchange for cooperating with the Special Counsel. His Q&A with Judge Sullivan in December 2018 made clear that he knew what did, and that he did it with eyes open.

    Paul Montagu (466a99) — 6/2/2020 @ 3:04 pm

    1) Flynn’s son was threatened by the SCO prosecutors and the prosecutors worked to keep that “gentleman’s agreement” from the plead documents. There were numerous press reports that the SCO was looking into his son as well.

    2) His original attorneys INSTRUCTED him to agree to the plea deal EVEN IF the judge ask him if he’s sure.

    3) His original attorneys had a non-waivable conflict as they were worried about the SCO putting their firm under legal jeopardy for their FARA works with Flynn’s company. It was in their interest to have Flynn work with the SCO… they were not acting in Flynn’s interest here.

    4) Its bloody expensive to fight the full might of the DOJ… hell, it’s expensive to take a plea deal in DC. So, there were absolute monetary considerations that factored into his original plea.

    So, I disagree that it’s a red herring at all.

    whembly (c30c83)

  99. @96. No, don’t be silly.

    Do your part in ensuring everyone has access to vigorous defense! Donate here:
    https://www.innocenceproject.org/

    whembly (c30c83)

  100. ““Action packed, PeeWee!”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/377481/

    The very first one of these is a lie.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  101. @99

    I have read the transcript. It shows Flynn lied.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a) — 6/2/2020 @ 3:13 pm

    Cool… can you show me where?

    whembly (c30c83)

  102. “No, don’t be silly.”

    I contend that the cries of “great injustice” are performative.

    “Do your part in ensuring everyone has access to vigorous defense! Donate here:”

    How much do I have to donate to get William Barr to help out?

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  103. 102… you can’t wish it away.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. 89… thanks, and right backatcha, Tanny!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. “102… you can’t wish it away.”

    The dude literally attacked the protesters (not looters) with a machete, and they beat him up.

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/dallas/article243153526.html

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  106. you haven’t figured out an election isn’t their end game, ‘they want to see the world burn’ this has been the story at least since los angeles in 92 (where van jones got his start) so this bogus document by baden, joins the phony lancet study, alongside imperial college, everywhere you look around they commit fraud to deprive of our liberty, every single one, until another fraud is on deck,

    narciso (7404b5)

  107. 107… defending his store… and he’s right, he was stupid to do that. Watch all of them, get a sense of what you are defending.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  108. ” defending his store… and he’s right, he was stupid to do that. Watch all of them, get a sense of what you are defending.”

    It’s not his store, and he wasn’t defending it because these guys were just protesters, not looters. You obviously didn’t read the linked article.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  109. I don’t read sites I know are garbage. Therefore I don’t read The Federalist. The truth is generally the opposite of what they say.

    Kishnevi (0feb5a) — 6/2/2020 @ 3:13 pm

    The question they say he lied about is not in the transcripts nor in the handwritten notes they took questioning general Flynn. They lied. They added the question to the 302 because it was not in the handwritten notes. You’re being disingenuous here. Prove that the article is garbage. But in the meantime how about CBS News?

    https://twitter.com/cbs_herridge/status/1267277685178458112?s=21

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  110. the Times the Journal and the Post got this entirely wrong, as has the Herald,

    narciso (7404b5)

  111. Oh, I read it. He’s on the ground, trying to shield and protect himself from being beaten and stomped to death by peaceful protesters. Many other videos linked of men and women getting nearly beaten to death by peaceful protesters.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  112. “As a general rule, when the New York Times, the Washington Post, National Public Radio, Public Broadcasting Service, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, and CNN begin to parrot a narrative, the truth often is found in simply believing just the opposite.

    Put another way, the media’s ‘truth’ is a good guide to what is abjectly false. Perhaps we can call the lesson of this valuable service, the media’s inadvertent ability to convey truth by disguising it with transparent bias and falsehood, the ‘Doctrine of Media Untruth.’”

    — Victor Davis Hanson; Rule of Opposites

    Most of the time, I agree. I read sites I don’t agree with so I don’t stay in a bubble and can get ideas that don’t agree with my own. It’s up to me to determine if a particular article is garbage. However, even a broken clock is right twice a day. At least in the United States.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  113. ….mainly because the Constitution bars him from intervening in incidents of civil unrest unless asked….

    He does have the power to federalize the National Guard without anyone’s permission.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  114. “Oh, I read it. He’s on the ground, trying to shield and protect himself from being beaten and stomped to death by peaceful protesters”

    Who he attacked with a sword.

    If the protesters were police, he’d be dead.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  115. He was not a very good or very smart swordfighter, and berserkers are born not made, but the animals he was defending his store from were animals in Birkenstocks who riffled his pockets after he was down and for all they knew dead or dying.

    nk (1d9030)

  116. Davethulu,
    I posted the video in a previous thread and it had a full video where he was getting rocks thrown at him before he “chased” some rioters who then beat him to an inch of his life.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  117. GOP senators offer rare rebuke of Trump on church visit
    A handful of GOP senators spoke out Tuesday against President Donald Trump, criticizing his visit to a church after police removed peaceful demonstrators from a park near the White House. The remarks came even as most Republicans continued to avoid any disapproval of the president.

    In a memorable scene captured live on television, police cleared Lafayette Park so Trump could walk to nearby St. John’s Church and pose with a Bible.
    …..
    South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, the only black Republican in the Senate, said Trump’s visit to the church was unhelpful and not something Scott would have done.

    “Obviously, if your question is, should you use tear gas to clear a path so the president can go have a photo-op, the answer is no,” Scott told Politico Tuesday, while noting he did not personally see the incident.

    Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, said it was “painful to watch peaceful protesters be subjected to tear gas in order for the president to go across the street to a church that I believe he’s attended only once.″ ….

    Sen. James Lankford, R-Okla., called Trump’s walk to the church “confrontational” and said it “distracted from his important message in the Rose Garden about our national grief, racism, peaceful protests and lawful assembly.″ That message “was drowned out by an awkward photo op,″ Lankford said.

    Sasse, who has at times criticized Trump but won his endorsement for reelection, said public officials nationwide “should be lowering the temperature” over protests and violence following the death in police custody of George Floyd, an unarmed black man, in Minnesota. ……

    “Police injustice — like the evil murder of George Floyd — is repugnant and merits peaceful protest aimed at change,″ Sasse said, adding that “riots are abhorrent acts of violence that hurt the innocent.″ Both messages should be heard as Americans work to end violence and injustice, Sasse said.
    ….
    South Dakota Sen. John Thune, the second-ranking GOP senator, said that “as a general matter, I always think it’s a good thing for our elected leaders to be spending time at church.″ …..
    …..
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Tuesday that “Democrats’ obsession with condemning President Trump” was blinding them to more urgent priorities, such as …..advancing racial justice.″
    …..
    Democrats’ obsession with condemning President Trump” was blinding them to more urgent priorities, such as …..advancing racial justice.″ Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  118. “I posted the video in a previous thread and it had a full video where he was getting rocks thrown at him before he “chased” some rioters who then beat him to an inch of his life.”

    Dude was the instigator.

    Even after the event Saturday night, Dallas police tacitly confirmed the details that Shoultz actually instigated the altercation by rushing men he perceived to be threats. Multiple videos appear to corroborate much of this account.

    From the link I posted earlier.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  119. Rules For A Swordfighter
    1. Be alert.
    2. Get the big picture.
    3. Separate hazards.
    4. Always leave yourself an out.
    5. Learn from your mistakes but leave them behind you.

    Three was critical in this case. He should have used the “terrain” and his own mobility so they could only come at him one at a time and he could pick them off one at a time. A sword is just a big knife. It’s not a machinegun.

    nk (1d9030)

  120. He didn’t hurt anyone and wasn’t killed, which is a better result than if police had been involved.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  121. North Carolina governor rejects GOP’s demand for full-fledged convention
    North Carolina’s Democratic governor, Roy Cooper, on Tuesday rejected the GOP’s plans for a full-fledged convention in Charlotte, telling Republican officials the only way the event would move forward is with proper health protocols in place.

    “The people of North Carolina do not know what the status of COVID-19 will be in August, so planning for a scaled-down convention with fewer people, social distancing and face coverings is a necessity,” Cooper wrote in a letter to the Republican National Committee.
    ……
    Cooper’s latest letter is sure to disappoint national Republicans again. “As much as we want the conditions surrounding COVID-19 to be favorable enough for you to hold the Convention you describe in late August, it is very unlikely,” Cooper wrote. “Neither public health officials nor I will risk the health and safety of North Carolinians by providing the guarantee you seek.”
    …..
    In response, North Carolina Republicans called Cooper a “hypocrite,” saying his participation in protests over the weekend runs counter to the state’s health and safety precautions that necessitate a scaled-back convention.
    …..
    The RNC and city of Charlotte remain contractually obligated to host a convention in the city in August. Should Republicans decide to take their party elsewhere, they risk forfeiting millions of dollars in funds already spent on preliminary security and infrastructure measures. Doing so could also result in a major legal battle between the city and Republican National Committee.
    …..

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  122. Yeah, that’s what I said. A berserker would have taken half a dozen with him to Valhalla before they brought him down. If they brought him down.

    nk (1d9030)

  123. An innocent man pled guilty to get out of an unsanitary jail and be put in a more sanitary prison. The man was pulled over and charged with possession of cocaine. It took over three months for the drug lab to determine that the contents was powdered milk, just as the man had told the police. The man was released.

    https://youtu.be/ZqqcvWKsZ24

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  124. Yeah, that’s what I said. A berserker would have taken half a dozen with him to Valhalla before they brought him down. If they brought him down.

    Didn’t Harrison Ford solve this problem in Raider’s when he had dysentery? Plus, in John Wick we learned belt beats knife too. In the age of Trump, those are documentaries right?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  125. (1) Flynn’s son was threatened by the SCO prosecutors and the prosecutors worked to keep that “gentleman’s agreement” from the plead documents.

    I doubt it. Over two years ago there were news reports that Flynn was offering prosecutors a guilty plea so that his kid would stay out of jail. There are too many suspect claims coming from the Sid Powell camp to be believed.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  126. Did you watch the video Davethulu? Did you watch him getting curb stomped into a broken and twisted heap and then having scum rifle through his pockets?

    That’s all you have to say?

    NJRob (6c2121)

  127. The media is flat out lying as they did about the tanker driver who they said ran into a crowd of protesters when he did no such thing and the mob dragged him out of his vehicle and attacked him as well.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  128. NJRob, at 19: i’ve watched twitch streams from people who were in the crowd, uploaded in real time.

    *someone* fired tear gas at them. it’s far more believable that the park police are lying than it is that multiple streamers ninja edited their streams *in real time* to create the impression of tear gas — most of them don’t have that skill and it’s next to impossible to do in real time in any eent.

    aphrael (7962af)

  129. White nationalist group posing as antifa called for violence on Twitter

    A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.

    The spokesperson said the account violated the company’s platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts. Twitter suspended the account after a tweet that incited violence.

    As protests were taking place in multiple states across the U.S. Sunday night, the newly created account, @ANTIFA_US, tweeted, “Tonight’s the night, Comrades,” with a brown raised fist emoji and “Tonight we say ‘F— The City’ and we move into the residential areas… the white hoods…. and we take what’s ours …”
    …..
    Two hashtags that trended worldwide on Twitter falsely claimed that there was a “cover-up” or a “blackout” of protests in Washington, D.C., overnight. Both appeared to insinuate that protesters have been silenced in some way, perhaps by a secret internet blackout.
    …..
    Journalists covering the protests also took to Twitter to disprove the hoax.

    “A lot of people are asking me about a possible #dcblackout. I’ve been out near the White House since 4 am and haven’t experienced any outage,” tweeted Victoria Sanchez, a reporter for WJLA, the local ABC affiliate, adding that her colleagues had posted multiple updates throughout the night.
    …..
    Related:
    RedState Duped By Fake Antifa Account Reportedly Run By White Nationalists

    The pro-Trump website RedState published a report Monday that was based on a tweet from a hoax “Antifa” account actually linked to a white nationalist group.
    …..
    Identity Evropa, which in early 2019 changed its name to “American Identity Movement,” is a white nationalist organization, led by Patrick Casey, that mainly organizes on college campuses across the country.

    The RedState blog, by writer Elizabeth Vaughn, featured the faux tweet text prominently in the headline. Vaughn did not respond to Mediaite’s multiple requests for comment.
    …..
    Trump campaign adviser and regular Fox News guest Harlan Hill was also duped by the faux tweet, as well as Fox Nation host Lara Logan.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  130. Kevin M,

    > He has not issued a single order to the military

    he claims otherwise.

    if he’s lying, should we not rake him over the coals for the lie?

    if he’s telling the truth, should we not rake him over the coals for issuing the order?

    aphrael (7962af)

  131. Aphrael,

    I’m questioning that activists can tell the difference between the two

    NJRob (6c2121)

  132. Tanny O’Haley (8a06bc) — 6/2/2020 @ 3:39 pm

    Go back to the tweet you linked. It’s literally there in the images: the lie he told and what the transcript said he says.

    Whembly, this answer also applies to your question to me.

    Kishnevi (72e49b)

  133. “Did you watch the video Davethulu? Did you watch him getting curb stomped into a broken and twisted heap and then having scum rifle through his pockets?”

    That’s all you have to say?”

    Seems to me that the scum is the person going around attacking people with a sword. Maybe they should have calmly and quietly knelt on his neck until he calmed down.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  134. He may have made deals with the local Democrats to take the credit for calling out the National Guard (when he has done no such thing), so he can get bragging rights with his IHOP samurais and the Democrats can avoid blame from their constituencies.

    nk (1d9030)

  135. And a handwritten notes don’t have that question or lie.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  136. Episcopalians Confused By Strange Book Trump Brought To Church

    https://babylonbee.com/news/episcopalians-confused-by-strange-book-trump-brought-to-church

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  137. Nk, what do you think of the happenings in Cicero and vicinity? My heart wasnt in blacking out my Facebook identifiers because that B on B mayhem.

    urbanleftbehind (f7f728)

  138. The DOJ reply brief at pp 30-31 states that the court cannot bring criminal contempt charges unless it was necessary to “vindicate its own authority” which the DOJ defines as “necessary to allow the district court to function.”

    What would ever fall under that definition? Maybe armed persons shutting down the courtroom but that can’t be the definition.

    DRJ (15874d)

  139. “Episcopalians Confused By Strange Book Trump Brought To Church”

    Trump was confused that it didn’t look like this

    https://i.imgur.com/Js15jtg.jpg

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  140. > I’m questioning that activists can tell the difference between the two

    between the two what?

    and also, given that these are *streams*, isn’t the people watching at home whose ability to differentiate you should be questioning?

    aphrael (7962af)

  141. I really wish Justin Amash would reconsider his decision to not run for president.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  142. Nk, what do you think of the happenings in Cicero and vicinity? My heart wasn’t in blacking out my Facebook identifiers because that B on B mayhem.

    I don’t know about Cicero, but I was five seconds ahead of the police cars racing to North Riverside Mall, at Harlem and Cermak, on Sunday. They looted a lot of stores, including Tony’s, and burned down The Olive Garden. It may have been a reprise for a lot of them. There have been gangs forming flash mobs and “shoplifting” before this, without anybody being smothered in Minneapolis. They’re animals.

    nk (1d9030)

  143. Washington, D.C.—Today Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) will file an Amicus Brief with the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals supporting General Michael Flynn’s Petition for a Writ of Mandamus. Senators Mike Braun (R-Indiana), Kevin Cramer (R-North Dakota), Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Rick Scott (R-Florida), and Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) joined Senator Cotton’s brief. Senator Cotton released the following statement on the brief:

    “Judge Sullivan is abusing his judicial power for political purposes. It’s time for General Flynn’s nightmare to end. I’m confident our court system will address this injustice swiftly.”

    https://www.cotton.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1373

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  144. The DEA Has Been Given Permission To Investigate People Protesting George Floyd’s Death
    ……The DEA is limited by statute to enforcing drug related federal crimes. But on Sunday, Timothy Shea, a former US Attorney and close confidant of Barr who was named acting administrator of the DEA last month, received approval from Associate Deputy Attorney General G. Bradley Weinsheimer to go beyond the agency’s mandate “to perform other law enforcement duties” that Barr may “deem appropriate.”

    Citing the protests, Shea lays out an argument for why the agency should be granted extraordinary latitude.

    “In order for DEA to assist to the maximum extent possible in the federal law enforcement response to protests which devolve into violations of federal law, DEA requests that it be designated to enforce any federal crime committed as a result of protests over the death of George Floyd,” Shea wrote in the memo. “DEA requests this authority on a nationwide basis for a period of fourteen days.”
    …..
    In addition to “covert surveillance,” the memo indicates that DEA agents would be authorized to share intelligence with local and state law enforcement authorities, to “intervene” to “protect both participants and spectators in the protests,” and to conduct interviews and searches, and arrest protesters who are alleged to have violated federal law.
    ….
    Copy of memo at the link.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  145. FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence

    The FBI’s Washington Field Office “has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence” in the violence that occurred on May 31, according to an internal FBI situation report obtained exclusively by The Nation. That same day, President Donald Trump announced on Twitter that he would designate Antifa a terrorist organization, even though the government has no existing authority to declare a domestic group a terrorist organization. Following the president’s tweet, Attorney General William Barr said in a statement, “The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”

    The FBI report, however, states, “based on CHS [Confidential Human Source] canvassing, open source/social media partner engagement, and liaison, FBI WFO has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence.” The statement followed a list of violent acts like bricks being thrown at police and a backpack containing explosive materials, which were flagged by the FBI under a “Key Updates” section of the report. The FBI has been issuing such reports daily since the weekend, according to an FBI source, who added that none of these documents contained any evidence of Antifa violence.

    The report did warn that individuals from a far-right social media group had “called for far-right provocateurs to attack federal agents, use automatic weapons against protesters.” (The Nation is withholding the name of the group in order to not disrupt any potential law enforcement investigations.)

    Andy Ngo reportedly in tears.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  146. Hey kid you gotta know the righta peoples. Iffa you know the righta peoples everythinga come uppa roses. — Vito “Cool Lips” Chericola, Chicago’s Mafia Boss (fictional)

    But there’s nothing right about those Trump bidets, Mr. Chericola.

    nk (1d9030)

  147. My 150 was to Tanny’s 146.

    nk (1d9030)

  148. ‘I find it baffling and reprehensible’: Catholic Archbishop of Washington slams Trump’s visit to John Paul II shrine

    President Trump triggered sharp condemnation from top religious leaders for the second time in two days on Tuesday, with Washington Archbishop Wilton Gregory slamming his visit to a D.C. shrine honoring Pope John Paul II.
    ….
    “I find it baffling and reprehensible that any Catholic facility would allow itself to be so egregiously misused and manipulated in a fashion that violates our religious principles, which call us to defend the rights of all people, even those with whom we might disagree,” Gregory said in a statement as Trump and first lady Melania Trump arrived at the Saint John Paul II National Shrine in Northeast Washington.
    …..
    ……In a statement last week, Gregory, who was installed as the first black archbishop of Washington in 2019, said Floyd’s death, “like all acts of racism, hurts all of us in the Body of Christ since we are each made in the image and likeness of God, and deserve the dignity that comes with that existence.”

    Trump’s brief visit to the shrine appeared to serve primarily as another photo opportunity. …..
    …..

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  149. Tear gas update:

    The U.S. Park Police acknowledged that its officers used smoke and irritating pepper agents to clear protesters outside the White House on Monday before President Donald Trump walked to a historic church that was damaged by arson.
    The police agency denied in a statement on Tuesday that it used “tear gas” to disperse the protesters, who it claimed — in contradiction to news coverage of the event — had attacked its officers. “Tear gas” is a colloquial term used to describe a variety of irritating crowd-control agents, including pepper spray.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  150. Nike Releases Commemorative Shoe To Honor Looters

    https://babylonbee.com/news/nike-releases-commemorative-shoe-to-honor-looters

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  151. Tanny, step back and look at the bigger picture.

    There has been hanky-panky here. You say it was by the FBI agents, I say it’s by Barr and company.

    If Sullivan has that hearing, the hanky-panky will be publicly demonstrated in court. If the FBI was the culprit, Barr should want that to happen.

    Instead he’s rushing to shut it down.

    Why would he do that if the FBI is the culprit?

    Kishnevi (72e49b)

  152. About that “BLM” spray-painted on that Trump National sign? A false flag by a Senator’s son.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  153. A false flag by a Senator’s son.

    Not a false flag according to the story:

    Rooney told Jupiter police he did it “because of unequal treatment in the justice system,” according to the arrest report.

    Dave (1bb933)

  154. About that “protest” at Layfayette Park:
    https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm

    On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.

    To curtail the violence that was underway, the USPP, following established policy, issued three warnings over a loudspeaker to alert demonstrators on H Street to evacuate the area. Horse mounted patrol, Civil Disturbance Units and additional personnel were used to clear the area. As many of the protestors became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls. No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park. Subsequently, the fence was installed.

    Sure… totes peaceful ya’lls.

    whembly (c30c83)

  155. Seems to me that the scum is the person going around attacking people with a sword. Maybe they should have calmly and quietly knelt on his neck until he calmed down.

    Anyone (e.g., scum) injured by that sword, Cthulhu? Didn’t think so. You have no interest in watching video documentation of other “peaceful protesters” severely beating and stomping several men and women to within an inch of their lives. Enough said.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. Sure… totes peaceful ya’lls.

    And it all just coincidentally went down right after Barr showed up and was observed giving direct orders to the Leibstandarte SS Donald Trump Brigade, and right before Bishop Bonespurs decided to walk through the now conveniently-empty square to attend Bible school.

    They’ve already confessed to what they did, and why they did it. Gimme a break.

    Dave (1bb933)

  157. Whembly, that second paragraph is contradicted by almost every video and every reporter on the scene.

    You may be as skeptical as you like of the reporters, but the videos are another story.

    Kishnevi (1d03eb)

  158. @160

    Gimme a break.

    Dave (1bb933) — 6/2/2020 @ 6:13 pm

    No, I won’t give you a break.

    I’ve seen videos and pictures of those protesters throwing debris. The account by the police chief further substantiates that the crowd was being unruly. The moment one person throws something at the LEO, the crowd ceases to be “peaceful”.

    FWIW, I’m jaded as all f*ck. I lived 15 minutes away from Ferguson when it erupted. I’ve seen first hand how the media distorts the truth.

    whembly (c30c83)

  159. I still believe the priestess. Those park cops work for Trump. Ipso fatso, they’re liars, cowards, and bullies.

    nk (1d9030)

  160. Hey Pat!
    You have a high opinion of the Wilkinson brief. What’s your opinion of the DOJ brief signed by the Solicitor General?

    I think it is slipshod — but then, their position is almost indefensible.

    They really fail to discuss that the Supreme Court of the United States inserted the leave requirement into the rule and said in Rinaldi: “[T]he Rule has also been held to permit the court to deny a Government dismissal motion to which the defendant has consented if the motion is prompted by considerations clearly contrary to the public interest.” I love the AMMIDOWN IS DICTA *whispered* and please don’t notice that Fokker is too business as well.

    It’s a pretty hack-filled panel so Flynn could win, but with justices actually applying the rules it is not a close case.

    The arguments cited above by whembly and praised by harkin are bullshit.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  161. “Anyone (e.g., scum) injured by that sword, Cthulhu? Didn’t think so.”

    What is this argument? They should have waited until he stabbed someone first?

    “You have no interest in watching video documentation of other “peaceful protesters” severely beating and stomping several men and women to within an inch of their lives.”

    You’re disingenuously conflating protesters and rioters. If you want to see the other side of the story, this thread is up to 163 instances of police violence: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1267984839254454278

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  162. “The moment one person throws something at the LEO, the crowd ceases to be “peaceful”.”

    This is ridiculous.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  163. Here’s my fisking of the fisking:

    THREAD
    1) In his brief filed today, Judge Sullivan makes the arguments I anticipated in my amicus brief (my amicus brief is linked below, along with Judge Sullivan’s).

    2) Judge Sullivan’s primary argument is that mandamus cannot issue because here, unlike in Fokker, there has been no ruling one way or the other on the motion to dismiss.

    3) But as I point out in my amicus brief, mandamus is available not only where a district court judge DENIES the DOJ’s mtn to dismiss, but also where it REFUSES TO RULE on the matter through an UNREASONABLE DELAY, which is what has happened here.
    https://www.scribd.com/document/463950323/Jmr-Response-1

    Seriously, LOL at this complete and utter bullshit. Flynn delayed things MONTHS with his nonsense and now Sullivan has taken a few extra days or weeks, setting a relatively expedited schedule, to analyze a case where the parties are aligned but the Supreme Court has made it crystal clear that the judiciary has an independent role.

    4) In addition, Judge Sullivan argues that district courts DO, in fact, have discretion over whether to grant the DOJ’s mtn to dismiss, even if the defendant consents, and must examine the “public interest.”

    5) In support of this argument, Judge Sullivan cites the early-1970s DC Circuit case of Ammidown.

    6) But as I point out in my amicus brief, Ammidown’s holding on this was pure dicta (that is, non-binding), and cannot be squared away with Fokker and subsequent SCOTUS precedent.

    7) Indeed, the Seventh Circuit–in an opinion by Judge Posner and joined by Judges Easterbrook and Wood–note that Ammindown’s holding in this regard is dicta.

    8) This is no small matter, because while Judges Posner and Easterbrook are “conservatives,” Judge Wood is very much a liberal, and was on Obama’s shortlist for a SCOTUS vacancy.

    So Fokker is a Rule 48 case? And therefore not dicta? How interesting. And here I thought Fokker had to do with the Speedy Trial Act but this Twitter guy sure set me straight!

    (Not.)

    9) Judge Sullivan fails to take into account how here, the Government is seeking dismissal WITH PREJUDICE.

    10) A district court may be justified in denying the Govt.’s mtd if it was seeking to dismsiss WITHOUT PREJUDICE, as there would be a risk of subjecting Flynn to multiple repeated prosecutions.

    11) But where, as here, the Govt. is seeking dismissal WITH PREJUDICE–meaning it would be barred from ever re-filing charges–and thus is not trying to give itself a Mulligan or do-over on the prosecution…

    12) Judge Sullivan cannot deny the motion or call for amicus briefing on the matter without runing afoul of the separation of powers.

    It’s spelled “running” but anyway you’re wrong. The Supreme Court has said that the court has a role besides being a rubber stamp. Try actually reading Rinaldi, ya dipstick.

    13) Judge Sullivan’s brief makes no serious attempt to analyze any of these issues.

    Judge Sullivan’s brief does a far better job analyzing these issues than Flynn’s melodrama or the Government’s pile of disingenuous crap.

    Even a panel this hacky would really be going out on a limb granting this mandamus.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  164. Seems to me that the scum is the person going around attacking people with a sword. Maybe they should have calmly and quietly knelt on his neck until he calmed down.

    Davethulhu (55869f) — 6/2/2020 @ 4:44 pm

    So you support the rioters and those beating people?

    NJRob (6c2121)

  165. From the Park Police propaganda:

    Throughout the demonstrations, the USPP has not made any arrests.

    Maybe instead of firing rubber bullets and tear gas at women and children, beating up journalists and terrorizing innocent Americans who are clearly breaking no law, they should arrest some of the people who are.

    Unless they can’t find any, of course.

    The whole thing was a trademark Trump clusterf*ck from start to finish.

    Dave (1bb933)

  166. NJRob (6c2121) — 6/2/2020 @ 6:36 pm

    We need a rhetorical question tag.

    frosty (f27e97)

  167. “So you support the rioters and those beating people?”

    What an insulting question. Of course not. The people involved in the incident weren’t rioters, the guy with the sword was the instigator.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  168. And we’ve managed to annoy the Aussies
    https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12314138

    Kishnevi (1d03eb)

  169. Davethulu,

    To repeat since you’ve ignored the facts: before he “chased” them, they were throwing rocks at him, then they attacked, curb stomped him and robbed him.

    But you find that acceptable and refuse to call those monsters what they are… because, why?

    NJRob (6c2121)

  170. “To repeat since you’ve ignored the facts: before he “chased” them, they were throwing rocks at him, then they attacked, curb stomped him and robbed him.”

    No they weren’t.

    Even after the event Saturday night, Dallas police tacitly confirmed the details that Shoultz actually instigated the altercation by rushing men he perceived to be threats. Multiple videos appear to corroborate much of this account.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  171. The scum proved themselves scum when they robbed him as he lay unconscious and for all they knew dying. That alone confirms that they were looters and not protesters and his perception of the threat was accurate. It was only his tactics that were bad.

    nk (1d9030)

  172. https://mobile.twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1266948486848749570

    The full video is the 2nd. I’ll give you more chance to watch it and retract your remarks Davethulu.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  173. It’s a pretty hack-filled panel so Flynn could win, but with justices actually applying the rules it is not a close case.

    So… win you win, lose you win.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  174. Happy to correct that. You were there – and yet still lied about the facts. The Park Police said you lied, too.
    I live right there on H Street. I was there the entire time, and all night. Property was being destroyed.

    — Richard Grenell

    https://twitter.com/richardgrenell/status/1267926118214098944?s=21

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  175. “The full video is the 2nd. I’ll give you more chance to watch it and retract your remarks Davethulu.”

    Or what? I’m tired or repeating myself and the goalposts on this issue have moved so far they’re not in the stadium anymore.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  176. “— Richard Grenell”

    I had to google who Richard Grenell is (he was ambassador to Germany until today), and lol

    His tenure has been controversial, and Grenell has been described as politically and diplomatically isolated in Berlin. Most German political leaders avoid contact with him because of his association with the far right, his interference in German domestic politics, and a perceived lack of professionalism.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  177. Good to know that even video evidence won’t get you to admit the rock throwers were bad people. You didn’t even acknowledge their rock throwing.

    I guess you have to support the radical left at all costs.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  178. Or what? I’m tired or repeating myself and the goalposts on this issue have moved so far they’re not in the stadium anymore

    Backed into a corner, he punts…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. EPIC FAIL.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  180. Down goes a King!

    urbanleftbehind (1d1900)

  181. “Backed into a corner, he punts…”

    The original goalposts: “Man stomped and stoned for trying to defend a bar from being looted”

    The current goalposts: “Protesters use excessive force defending themselves from sword wielding aggressor.”

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  182. Funny how the hacks are bolding the Park Police statement but not bolding “pepper balls.”

    Gee, what are those?

    Tear gas, essentially, in pellet form.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  183. Grenell, a well-known hack, is full of shit.

    The Park Police used pepper balls. Those are really balls filled with pepper spray.

    https://www.saltsupply.com/blogs/home-defense-blog/the-effects-of-pepper-spray-vs-pepper-spray-guns

    We’ll spend the next day parsing tear gas like we parse everything else in the name of Trump. Mollie Hemingway, that shrewish hack, has her hands on her hips again and is agog that anyone would say tear gas was used, when balls containing pepper spray were what was actually used. MY STARS, THE NERVE of those liars. Tsk tsk tsk

    Patterico (115b1f)

  184. Ted Cruz has joined an amicus brief supporting Flynn.

    I want my money back, Ted, you fraud.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  185. Way to go Tom Cotton and everybody who signed the Amicus Brief in support of General Flynn. I hope it stops this injustice.

    https://www.cotton.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1373

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  186. And Sen. Cruz when asked whether yesterday’s presidential walk in the park was an “abuse of power” answered that it was an abuse of power by the protesters.

    Kishnevi (151ddc)

  187. Andy Ngo reportedly in tears.

    “The report … was provided to The Nation by an FBI official on condition of anonymity.”

    Christopher Steele just won’t quit.

    beer ‘n pretzels (efe0ef)

  188. Ted fooled us all. We mistook mundanity and prolixity for principle and wisdom. (That was the secret of Biden’s success too.) He really should find himself a professorship somewhere.

    nk (1d9030)

  189. Whoops… my last comment is stuck in moderation. I copied a cuss word…#DamnThatBloggerPrivilege! 😉

    And… no… pepper balls are NOT like tear gas. Frankly, tear gas are just as knarly as smoke bombs.

    whembly (c30c83)

  190. The current goalposts: “Protesters use excessive force defending themselves from sword wielding aggressor.”

    Davethulhu (55869f) — 6/2/2020 @ 8:42 pm

    Rock throwing rioters beat a man within an inch of his life for defending a business he loves and you’re a-okay with it. That will always be here.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  191. We’ll spend the next day parsing tear gas like we parse everything else in the name of Trump.

    Less than one hour later:

    And… no… pepper balls are NOT like tear gas.

    Always trust content from patterico.com

    Dave (1bb933)

  192. Rob, the sword guy admitted that he went out looking for people to pre-emptively attack.

    Dave (1bb933)

  193. LOL dave @ 9:59pm. It is amazing what people bother fighting about.

    Trump will be defended the same way the confederacy is. For the rest of our lives, even though he is objectively a terrible president, even though we all know what the “again” of the past refers to in MAGA that the KKK specifically endorsed. We’ll be hearing people say that the deep state did this to him.

    Also Ted Cruz is a f***ing coward.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  194. No he didn’t Dave. He said he went out there to meet the rioters before they came to his house and destroyed his favorite bar.

    He didn’t attack. He defended. Watch the video.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  195. Mace and Tear Gas are distinct from OC Spray and Pepper Balls in a way that is largely irrelevant to someone who was exposed. The former is artificial chemicals and the latter are natural, and the former are easy to disperse to a large area and the latter are relatively precise. It’s like the difference between a buffet restaurant and a vending machine. It’s still food.

    I’ve been sprayed right in the eyes with pepper. I’ve breathed CS gas like a lot of the commenters here have. I thought the CS gas was worse but most think pepper is worse. I’m sure I could tell the difference but law enforcement needs to be careful about quibbling defenses that come across as deceptive. In fact, the person writing that ‘acthually pepper balls’ should ask themselves why they are defensive about the notion tear gas was used.

    A more forthright defense could be that pepper was used against some very specific agitator and why, and unfortunately wasn’t precise enough that it didn’t affect others. I guess. I really want to believe in these guys but the word bayonets is trending so I’m pretty jaded.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  196. “No he didn’t Dave. He said he went out there to meet the rioters before they came to his house and destroyed his favorite bar.

    He didn’t attack. He defended. Watch the video.”

    Rob, you’re really getting tiresome on this. Why is this your top issue?

    Contained within my initial link was a tweet that threaded out his social media. Here’s the link: https://twitter.com/mot427/status/1267154832005066757

    the tl;dr is that he went out looking for a fight.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  197. He has not issued a single order to the military, and probably will not (mainly because the Constitution bars him from intervening in incidents of civil unrest unless asked).

    Kevin M,

    That is a common misconception but it’s not true. Look up the Insurrection Act.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  198. Tear Gas story?!!! LOLOL You are a fake news idiot!!!

    General Flynn is guilty? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    MUH DRUMPF! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Big Al (310860)

  199. 202. It’s not the constitution that regulates when the military can intervene in civil matters, it’s Posse Comitatus and The Insurrection Act of 1897. The insurrection act of 1807 is directly at odds with — but predates — the first Posse Comitatus act of 1878, which was passed in response to the dissolution of the post-war reconstruction governments.

    As with so many things in America these days, it seems that the president’s power depends on which case law you cite and what you can get a judge to rule on in one’s favor.

    Gryph (08c844)

  200. 204. *The Insurrection Act of 1807. Stupid Typos.

    Gryph (08c844)

  201. There are three insurrection acts. 10 U.S. Code Sections 251 to 255. The first requires a request by the state. The second requires a breakdown of federal judicial authority in that state. The third requires that the state be like 1957 Little Rock Arkansas. My favorite of the five sections of the law is section 254 which requires the President to first “read them the riot act”.

    nk (1d9030)

  202. The insanity continues with Trump’s TearGasTrutherism.

    President Trump’s reelection campaign sent a message out to news organizations Tuesday night, demanding a correction to articles that described security forces’ use of tear gas to disperse demonstrators outside the White House on Monday, to allow Trump to cross the street to pose for photos at a church.
    The U.S. Park Police had earlier released a statement defending that effort, saying that their use of chemical agents against the crowd came in response to violence from protesters, and that it involved “pepper balls” and “smoke canisters.” The statement went on to assert that “no tear gas was used” in the Lafayette Square incident.
    “We now know through the U.S. Park Police that neither they, nor any of their law enforcement partners, used tear gas to quell rising violence,” Tim Murtaugh, the Trump 2020 campaign’s communications director said in a statement Tuesday night. “Every news organization which reported the tear gas lie should immediately correct or retract its erroneous reporting,”
    The truth boils down to an exercise in semantics.
    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: “Riot control agents (sometimes referred to as “tear gas”) are chemical compounds that temporarily make people unable to function by causing irritation to the eyes, mouth, throat, lungs, and skin.”
    And, according to the CDC, “several different compounds” fall under this definition, and are employed by security forces, including military and police, in riot control situations.
    Among others, they include chloroacetophenone (CN), more commonly referred to as “mace,” or pepper sprays — in other words, the compound that was deployed in Lafayette Square — and chlorobenzylidenemalononitrile (CS), “one of the most commonly used tear gases in the world,” according to an article in the British Medical Journal.
    These compounds are all typically referred to as “tear gas” because their most prominent effect is to bring on tears.
    Riot control agents are designed to cause irritation within seconds of exposure, making the exposed want to flee the scene. And indeed, toxicologists advise that getting away from the gas is the best and first thing to do to mediate the impact.

    The best place to see this gaslighting is a Mollie Hemingway comment section at The Federalist, a once respectable periodical.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  203. oh hey the word gaslighting is funnier here

    Dustin (d59cff)

  204. Balls, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  205. 206. I am aware of that. There are also numerous revisions to the Posse Comitatus Act. 1807 and 1878 were when they were originally signed into law, respectively. And they have always worked at cross-purposes to each other.

    Gryph (08c844)

  206. My point was that at this point Trump needs a request by the state pursuant to Section 251. The federal courts have not stopped functioning (Section 252), and the KKK is not lynching black people with the connivance of Alabama state troopers and Mississippi sheriffs (Section 253).

    nk (1d9030)

  207. The insurrection act of 1807 is directly at odds with — but predates — the first Posse Comitatus act of 1878, which was passed in response to the dissolution of the post-war reconstruction governments.

    This is a common misconception but, and I don’t mean this as an attack but to correct the facts for my readers, you are flatly wrong here and this is misinformation. The Posse Comitatus Act governs the authority of the military in the absence of statutory authority. The Insurrection Act is that statutory authority.

    I am not an expert in these areas but I read and listen to people who are. Look up the latest edition of the National Security Law podcast — a great podcast by two University of Texas law professors, Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck — and they discuss this exact issue at around 28:30.

    Kevin M is flatly wrong to say a local request is required. A request for local authorities has never been understood to be required. It’s why two presidents used the Insurrection Act to enforce desegregation rulings where local authorities were, shall we say, not asking for the federal government’s help.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  208. And nk, the fact that we are not in reality at a breakdown to the level that would justify Trump’s invoking the provisions of the Insurrection Act that do not require a local request … does not mean Trump necessarily won’t do it. And there is no review for that, I suspect, except the election.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  209. There is the flat refusal of front line military command. They can be removed until Trump finds a willing command staff, but the public perception would hopefully shame congress into a reaction. That or the 25th amendment, which is amply justified, daily.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  210. Purity of Essence.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  211. 189.Ted Cruz has joined an amicus brief supporting Flynn.

    I want my money back, Ted, you fraud.

    Seems like someone doesn’t like General Flynn. Looking forward to Patterico’s analysis of Sullivan’s Response and the DOJ’s brief to the Court of Appeals.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  212. Davethulu,

    your link supports my words, not yours. He went there to defend the place because he saw firsthand what people were doing to his neighborhood. The video shows them attacking him with rocks and he tried to scare them off. Then they beat him within an inch of his life and robbed him.

    Now continue to excuse these monsters for some twisted reason.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  213. It’s why two presidents used the Insurrection Act to enforce desegregation rulings where local authorities were, shall we say, not asking for the federal government’s help.

    Yes, that’s interesting. I didn’t know Ike and JFK ( I assume those were the two) used that act.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  214. Tear Gas is Tear Gas. You don’t get to scream “They used TEAR GAS!!!” when they didn’t. Pepper balls and Pepper spray isn’t “Tear gas” and in terms of its nastiness is way down the list on irritating agents. Its as if someone claimed they had their leg broken in six places, when they just got a bruise.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  215. Further, people keep saying they were “Peaceful Protestors” without any evidence. WHO were they? Why where they there? Why didn’t they leave the area when told to, by the Park Police?

    Are people asserting Trump doesn’t have the right to walk across the street in safety? How is going to walk across when you have hostile, unlawful protestors blocking the way and refusing to move. I’d love to hear Ben Sasse, mr. cuck answer those questions on TV, instead of grandstanding for the WaPo reporters.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  216. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    I know, I know, the video that shows the peaceful protesters clashes with Cheeto Jeezus’ tweets, so the video is obviously wrong.

    Like the park police didn’t use Tear Gas, they used pepperballs, and pepper spray, so the press must remove the offending articles claiming they used tear gas.

    Tear gas, formally known as a lachrymator agent or lachrymator (from the Latin lacrima, meaning “tear”), sometimes colloquially known as mace, is a chemical weapon that causes severe eye and respiratory pain, skin irritation, bleeding, and blindness. In the eye, it stimulates the nerves of the lacrimal gland to produce tears. Common lachrymators include pepper spray (OC gas), PAVA spray (nonivamide), CS gas, CR gas, CN gas (phenacyl chloride), bromoacetone, xylyl bromide, syn-propanethial-S-oxide (from onions), and Mace (a branded mixture), and household vinegar.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  217. Thank you for your comments, Patterico. They are very helpful to me.

    DRJ (15874d)

  218. You don’t get to scream “They used TEAR GAS!!!” when they didn’t.

    That’s FakeNews TearGasTrutherism. The pepper balls are a form of tear gas, used for riot control.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  219. Further, people keep saying they were “Peaceful Protestors” without any evidence.

    There was lots of evidence. The Park Police was dishonest with their “no tear gas” claim and they were less than honest about the protesters.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  220. There was lots of evidence. The Park Police was dishonest with their “no tear gas” claim and they were less than honest about the protesters.

    There were about 1,500 folks there, 99.9% were fine, but I’m sure there were a few agitators among the periphery, but this is about the best video I’ve seen since it’s directly at the front.

    Notice that at 6:35PM the lady announces the protesters are violating the curfew…that starts at 7PM. Maybe she just flew in from the Atlantic Provinces of Canada. Here’s the full video from the Aussies sitting on the other side, notice anything missing? This is the shot from the Aussies before the charge, she explains the night before people were throwing stuff, but today (monday) was much quieter, notice none of the throwing of bottles etc.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  221. This is the first charge. Another shot of it.

    And another.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  222. Viva Frei on Judge Sullivan explains himself

    https://youtu.be/wQrtVNW3OPk

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.9209 secs.