Patterico's Pontifications

5/30/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:21 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few interesting news items to chew over. Feel free to share anything that you think readers might find interesting. Make sure to include links.

First news item

This x 100: In an email exchange with our host about George Floyd, our host keyed in on something that has troubled me as well:

I think the most interesting question is what a bystander should do. Normally when you see a crime you call the cops. Here, it was a cop slowly murdering a man in broad daylight in full view of multiple people. Whom can you call then? In retrospect the only thing that would have worked would have been to rush the cop, which would lead to bad bad bad consequences with arrest being the least of it and death being a not unrealistic possibility.

These days, cell phone videos are often what brings these situations to light. However, a cell phone video doesn’t necessarily show the whole picture, or as our host put it in our conversation:

I always always always think these videos that upset everyone (including the Central Park dog walker) omit the provocation that leads to the bad behavior — but here, you can imagine (and assume for the sake of argument) almost any provocation you like happening before the cameras started rolling. Nothing justifies failing to hobble the guy and toss him in the car. Nothing justifies this…

I know that cops like Chauvin are not representative of the majority of law enforcement officers,but I also know that cops like Chauvin (and those like the three who stood by and let this happen) weren’t just born yesterday either.

Second news item

Cop’s wife says she’s out of there:

Kellie Chauvin, the wife of the former Minneapolis police officer charged in the death of George Floyd, has announced she is “devastated” over the situation and is divorcing her husband, according to CBS Minnesota. In a statement, a representative told the news station that her “utmost sympathy lies with his [Floyd’s] family, with his loved ones and with everyone who is grieving tragedy.” She is said to have already filed for the dissolution of her marriage to the former police officer, and asks for “privacy during this difficult time.”

Third news item

Give me a break, man!

Former Vice President Joe Biden on Friday said Charlamagne tha God was “baiting” him in an interview earlier this week when the presumptive Democratic nominee told the New York radio host that any consideration about voting for President Trump means “you ain’t black.” In an interview with CNN’s Don Lemon, the former vice president was asked about the contrast between his controversial remarks to Charlamagne tha God and the “empathy” he displayed towards African-Americans when commenting on the death of George Floyd in police custody. “Which leader are you going to be?” Lemon asked. Biden responded, “The leader I’ve always been. I apologized immediately for responding to Charlamagne, who was baiting me, and if you looked at that film you’ll see I was smiling at him. I was referring to him. I wasn’t referring to all African-Americans. I should have never said it. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever taken the African-American community for granted.”

Fourth news item

By a 5-4 vote, with Justice Roberts joining the liberals, SCOTUS declines to lift church restrictions:

Last night the Supreme Court declined to intervene in challenges by churches in southern California and the Chicago area to stay-at-home orders issued as a result of the COVID-19 crisis. The churches had asked the justices earlier this week to lift restrictions on crowds in time for them to hold services on Sunday, when Christians celebrate the holy day of Pentecost. But the justices turned them down. The court issued only a terse order in the Illinois case that referred to the new guidance issued by the state earlier this week. But the justices were closely divided in the California case, with Chief Justice John Roberts casting the deciding vote and writing a late-night opinion to explain his decision to deny relief.

Details:

California (along with San Diego County) and Illinois urged the justices to deny the churches’ requests. They began by explaining that indoor worship services are different from retail stores or businesses because people are more likely to gather in close proximity for longer periods of time. Moreover, they added, the singing and speaking at worship services “increases the danger” that people who are infected with the COVID-19 virus will “project respiratory droplets that contain the virus,” passing the infection on to others. Indeed, they noted, there have been several examples of significant COVID-19 outbreaks linked to worship services.

But in any event, California and Illinois continued, there was no need for the justices to intervene because the restrictions had been lifted. In California, the San Diego County Health Department issued an order (following new guidance from the state) on May 26 that allows churches in the county, including South Bay, to hold services, as long as they limit attendance to 25 percent of their building capacity or a maximum of 100 people and practice social distancing. Although the church argues that it is also harmed by the new guidance, because its building seats 600 and its attendance is normally somewhere between 200 and 300, the state emphasized that the church had not asked for an order blocking the enforcement of the new guidance in the lower courts. Moreover, the state observed, the church could add more services if it wants to ensure that everyone can attend.

You can read the dissenting opinion here (Written by Kavanaugh.)

Fifth news item

Mayor says out of state agitators arrested in St. Paul taking advantage of the very real pain of the community:

Sixth news item

Two views on protesting:

–Dana

432 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. I wonder how many of the out-of-state looters and arsonists are agents provocateur in Trump’s pay. Atlanta more so than Minnesota, where its mayor is a lady I’d vote for as VP along with Amy K.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. I guess I believe in emphasizing things in emails by using the adjective three times. (I actually don’t generally do that but it’s funny to see I did it twice in this email.)

    Patterico (115b1f)

  4. Texas Gov Abbott has done a good job balancing individual rights and public health. Other Governors have made good choices for their States, too, but we now know that the challenges are not the same everywhere. Thus, balancing requires dealing with the big picture, local differences, and individual concerns. That isn’t easy to do.

    DRJ (15874d)

  5. How many of you would be willing to forgive Roberts on this ruling if hes the 5th vote in favor of rescinding DACA.

    urbanleftbehind (89a7a9)

  6. The challenges of dealing with racial concerns and protests are similar. Here’s hoping every Governor finds the right balance there, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  7. I hope Roberts isn’t a politician who horse trades his decisions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  8. Saagar Enjeti
    @esaagar
    ·
    Timeline of events so far: Dems cheered on riots and looting until they realized how bad those things actually are and now they are desperate to blame phantom Russians and White Nationalists so they don’t have to own the responsibility for the chaos they allowed

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  9. Mayor Ted Wheeler
    @tedwheeler

    Portland, this is NOT us. When you destroy our city, you are destroying our community. When you act in violence against each other, you are hurting all of us. How does this honor the legacy of George Floyd? Protest, speak truth, but don’t tear your city apart in the process.
    __ _

    Varad Mehta
    @varadmehta
    ·
    Guy who gave antifa the freedom of his city has second thoughts about letting goons and ruffians rampage unchecked.

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  10. Why aren’t these people wearing masks?!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. I hope Roberts isn’t a politician who horse trades his decisions.

    The church issue oughtn’t be ideological. There are actual facts and dangers involved, and it was also moot. That the rest of the court divided on ideological lines isn’t something to be cheered.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. 2 federal officers shot, 1 murdered in Oakland.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  13. My guess is that anyone rushing the cops would either be dead at their hands or be now being held for accessory murder after the cops claimed that being rushed had prevented them from noticing the dead guy they were continuing to restrain.

    Potentially both. It’s easier to have the scapegoat be dead so that a courtroom can’t explore your culpability.

    Passively videoing assaults usually makes you a douche of the first order, but when the cops are involved it’s an act of bravery simply to stay and risk being a victim yourself.

    Bob (a6cfbf)

  14. These riots have more to do with being cooped up in hot tenements for months than they do with Floyd. Floyd’s death was just the spark, but the tinder was pretty dry already.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. In his of activities comparable to church services (lectures, concerts, etc.), Roberts forgot pool parties:

    Person who attended Lake of the Ozarks Memorial Day gathering tests positive for coronavirus

    A person who partied in the Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri, area on Memorial Day weekend has tested positive for coronavirus — and was possibly infectious over the holiday weekend.

    The Boone County resident visited multiple bars on May 24 and 25, according to the Camden County Health Department. They “developed illness” on Sunday and were possibly infectious before then.
    ……..

    Entirely predictable.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  16. “I know that cops like Chauvin are not representative of the majority of law enforcement officers,but I also know that cops like Chauvin weren’t just born yesterday either.”

    If “good cops” stand by while “bad apples” like Chauvin are unchecked, there aren’t any good cops.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  17. Too bad they didn’t protest like the Amish. The property destruction wasn’t worth it.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  18. Here’s an answer to a question that I thought would never, ever be asked: Why Men Are Pointing Loaded Guns at Their Dicks.
    That’s what you call taking “incel” to the next level.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  19. Oh thanks for the reminder, Davethulhu. I had included the three cops who stood by and let this happen in yesterday’s post but forgot to include it in today’s post. I have just done so.

    Dana (0feb77)

  20. I guess I believe in emphasizing things in emails by using the adjective three times.

    You’re a piker compared to Biden’s repetition of an adverb six straight times: “I should have never said it. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever taken the African-American community for granted.”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  21. 14… better shut dat state down, rip!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. I don’t doubt that their are “outside agitators” in these crowds, but before you start talking about 80% being from out of state, white supremacists, anarchists, or Russian little green men; you better have a single one to trot out in front of the camera. Arrest records are mostly public, so if you arrested some, let’s have the details.

    Again, there probably are some or all of the above, but it doesn’t appear they needed to do much to turn a protest against the senseless killing of a man by police, into burning down the services that the community actually needs to live next week, or next month.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  23. It’s amusing that Biden essentially blamed a black man for his bad gaffe. Typical power move from rich, well connected white guy. Do Harris and Abrams disavow, and remove themselves from veep consideration? Nah.

    Dana (0feb77)

  24. Here’s an answer to a question that I thought would never, ever be asked: Why Men Are Pointing Loaded Guns at Their Dicks.
    That’s what you call taking “incel” to the next level

    Appendix carry is the new’ish kewl tactical thing, that’s only slightly less problematic. 4 o’clock every day, never point the gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy, i.e., your weenus or femoral artery.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  25. The St. Paul mayor’s claim that the violence was by out-of-state agitators sounds eerily like Assad blaming foreign terrorists for attacks on Syrian targets. It’s not believable.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  26. If “good cops” stand by while “bad apples” like Chauvin are unchecked, there aren’t any good cops.

    Too distracted to look it up right now, but wasn’t it being reported yesterday that one of the cops was repeatedly suggesting to Chauvin that he let up, while the other two copies were young and inexperienced? That doesn’t give them full exoneration, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Minneapolis police culture was one in which rookie cops were not supposed to question the actions of more senior cops, especially publicly.

    I’m kind of surprised in general to learn that Chauvin was not one of the cops who made the initial arrest of Mr. Floyd, that he arrived on the scene with his partner later. Again, the circumstances of what went on haven’t been released to the public, but I’m interested in the fact that Chauvin apparently ended up being the officer who was taking the lead in the arrest, even though he wasn’t the first one to make contact with Mr. Floyd. Did he just come on the scene and assert his authority, or did something transpire between Mr. Floyd and him that angered him and led to him throwing Mr. Floyd to the ground? I think this could be a case where there is a toxic hierarchy enforced within Minneapolis Police, and perhaps that needs to be addressed.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  27. I don’t doubt that their are “outside agitators” in these crowds, but before you start talking about 80% being from out of state, white supremacists, anarchists, or Russian little green men; you better have a single one to trot out in front of the camera. Arrest records are mostly public, so if you arrested some, let’s have the details.

    It kind of strains credulity that believe that a bunch of gangbangers and antifa thugs from Wisconsin, Iowa, the Dakotas, Ontario and Manitoba came streaming into Minneapolis on 24 or 48 hours notice in order to smash up stuff. It’s not completely out of the question, but it is kind of hard to see.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  28. There are BlackBloc scum scattered all over America, and not a few living in Austin. They are well-funded, organized, equipped and mobile. They are called up to go to any flare-up anywhere in the US, where their activities are directed by an organized, sophisticated command structure. Some come from GB and Europe.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  29. Appendix carry is the new’ish kewl tactical thing, that’s only slightly less problematic. 4 o’clock every day, never point the gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy, i.e., your weenus or femoral artery.

    Hip carry is the new thing. Front of the belt carry is as old as the pistol light enough not to need to be carried in a saddle holster.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. 25. I’m curious to know what would happen if it turns out to not have been Mr. Floyd who passed the (a?) bogus $20 at all. What if this was all just a horrendous misunderstanding?

    Gryph (08c844)

  31. 7. Not all politicians are elected by voters. Some are appointed. That doesn’t make them any less of a politician.

    Gryph (08c844)

  32. Merkel rebuffs Trump invitation to G-7 summit

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has rebuffed Donald Trump’s invitation to attend a G-7 summit, which the president is keen to portray as a symbol of a return to normality from the upheaval of the coronavirus crisis.

    “The federal chancellor thanks President Trump for his invitation to the G-7 summit at the end of June in Washington. As of today, considering the overall pandemic situation, she cannot agree to her personal participation, to a journey to Washington,” German government spokesman Steffen Seibert told POLITICO on Friday.
    ………
    Merkel’s refusal to attend the summit in person risks scuppering Trump’s attempts to present the gathering as a landmark moment drawing a line under the lockdowns and travel bans imposed to fight the coronavirus pandemic.

    Trump canceled the summit in March because of the crisis and said he would host a videoconference instead. But in a tweet on May 20, he said he might reschedule the summit, proclaiming, “It would be a great sign to all — normalization!”
    ……..
    “ The president thinks no greater example of reopening in this transition to greatness would be the G-7, and G-7 happening here,” White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany told reporters Tuesday.

    “We will protect world leaders who come here, just like we protect people in the White House,” McEnany added. “So we want to see it happen. We think it will happen. And, so far, foreign leaders are very much on board with the idea.”
    ………
    Yeah, I’m sure they will come to have a swab shoved up their nose.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  33. Just to recap for the obdurately ignorant fringe nutters…

    NO state or our Federal Constitution exempts any religious entity from laws and regulations. Read the KAVANAUGH dissent for support of this FACT.

    EVERY state retained plenary police powers at the time of the Framing, and have always exercised them since.

    Without exception (that I know about) every state governor has the power to implement state laws via executive orders that DO have the force of law. Read the KAVANAUGH dissent for support of this FACT.

    NO Justice takes issue with the power of the states to restrict church attendance; the ONLY point of departure between them was whether Kuhlifornia’s restrictions were supported by a sufficient factual basis.

    NO Justice has found that the people of ANY state have been prohibited from religious observance.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  34. 32. Judges are politicians, exhibit #1235483AZ.

    Gryph (08c844)

  35. A Brett of fresh error.
    _____

    They’ll have a hot time in the old town tonight…

    “I’ve just been handed a bulletin: “You have something on your front tooth!” –
    Ted Baxter [Ted Knight], anchorman, WJM-TV, Minneapolis/St.Paul

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. I’m glad I don’t need an unelected judge to tell me when my rights have been infringed. SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  37. It doesn’t take outside people to cause violence. Angry people tend toward aggression and once you hit the tipping point, it’s very hard to pull back and everything gets out of control very quickly. You have to have very strong and calm leadership on both the protesting side and on the law enforcement side to keep things peaceful.

    Nic (896fdf)

  38. “I’m glad I don’t need an unelected judge to tell me when my rights have been infringed. SMDH”

    https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  39. Minnesota’s governor activated all National Guard troops, and the Army ordered units to stand by.
    Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota said on Saturday that he was activating thousands of additional National Guard troops to send to Minneapolis, and the Army ordered troops to stand by after protesters turned out for a fourth night in a row on Friday, burning buildings to the ground and overwhelming officers.

    “Our goal is to decimate that force as quickly as possible,” Mr. Walz said of the rioters who have been causing the damage, a group that he said was different from demonstrators who had been protesting the death of George Floyd…….

    The move by Mr. Walz to activate all of the state’s available Guard troops — up to 13,200 — comes after protesters defied a newly imposed curfew on Friday night and set a string of businesses on fire, including a bank, a restaurant and a gas station.
    ………
    ……..Mr. Walz also said he would not rule out requesting a few hundred additional troops from the federal government.
    At the behest of President Trump, the Defense Department ordered the Army to prepare active-duty military police units to deploy from several army bases to Minneapolis.

    The move does not mean that the units will be activated, but it is a first step toward doing so, officials said. Deploying military police units — likely from Fort Bragg in North Carolina and Fort Drum in New York — would represent an escalation in the government response to the unfolding events, in an echo of past uprisings over racial tensions in America. Military police units were used in 1992 during the aftermath to the Rodney King verdict in California.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  40. The local Louisville mayor said it was “people from outside of town” doing all the rioting. That’s vague enough to been anything and nothing, but these outside of town folks must be depopulating the rest of the country, because the rioting is happening in dozens of cities, so where are they all supposed to be coming from.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  41. Sam Johnson, Congressman and Former P.O.W., Is Dead at 89
    Sam Johnson, a former military pilot who suffered torture as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for nearly seven years, part of that time alongside John McCain, then came home to Texas to serve for 28 years in Congress, died on Wednesday in Plano, Texas. He was 89.
    …..
    As a member of Congress representing a conservative suburban district north of Dallas, Mr. Johnson, a 29-year veteran of the Air Force, was an ardent champion of American troops and veterans and sought to bring financial stability to the Social Security program.
    …….
    After joining the Air Force, he flew 62 combat missions in the Korean War and 25 in the Vietnam War. He was shot down on that 25th mission, after the famously balky guns of his F-4 Phantom II jammed.

    Parachuting out of the jet, which was on fire, he broke his back and his right arm and severely injured his left arm on striking the ground in North Vietnamese territory, where he was captured — a sequence of events that paralleled what happened to Mr. McCain.

    At the Hanoi Hilton, the torture was unending. When not being interrogated or beaten in the rat-infested prison, Mr. Johnson was often immobilized in leg stocks, he recalled in “Captive Warriors: A Vietnam POW’s Story” (1992, with Jan Winebrenner).

    Of Mr. Johnson’s nearly seven years in captivity, 42 months were in solitary confinement — the punishment for “hard-core resisters,” as he put it. These included Jeremiah A. Denton Jr., a Navy commander who, like Mr. McCain, would serve in the United States Senate, and James B. Stockdale, a decorated Navy pilot who would become Ross Perot’s running mate in his 1992 run for the presidency.

    Mr. Denton, who famously blinked the word T-O-R-T-U-R-E in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda broadcast, taught Mr. Johnson a “tap code” so that they could communicate through the walls of their cells. Mr. Denton later led a camp hunger strike that got Mr. Johnson released from solitary confinement after three and a half years.
    ……
    He retired from the military in 1979 as a colonel, having earned two Purple Hearts, two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Bronze Star with valor. He was selected to fly with the Thunderbirds, the precision Air Force flying team.
    ……
    RIP

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  42. When I hear a sheriff talk about “outside agitators” I’m reminded of Selma’s Jim Clark:

    I was born in Elba, Alabama, about a hundred miles southeast of Selma in the Wiregrass region of the state. I served in the Army Air Force during WWII. In 1955, Jim Folsom, the governor of Alabama and my boyhood friend, appointed me sheriff of Dallas County. The high-fallutin’ white people in Selma didn’t like that much. Folks in the Black Belt thought they were better and more sophisticated than the poorer whites who came from my area of the state. But the rural folks of Dallas County liked me well enough and helped me win reelection in 1958. It was my job to keep the peace. My deputies and I made sure that the blacks and labor agitators didn’t step out of line. I created a posse of reliable white citizens to help me maintain order with billy clubs and shotguns.

    When those sit-ins started happening up in Greensboro, I deputized the posse. I had 300 members divided into a mounted posse and the rest of them on foot. We were ready when civil rights agitators invaded Selma. They wanted to disturb our way of life, trying to register to vote and bringing “black supremacy.” I did everything in my power to stop them. Once my posse and I marched a hoard of young agitators out of town at a running pace, shocking them with cattle prods when they slowed down. They claimed to be non-violent, but one of those women, Annie Lee Cooper, ripped my nightstick out of my hand and beat me with it. When hundreds of agitators tried to march to Montgomery one Sunday, my posse was ready. We shot tear gas in the air and beat them back across the bridge where they belonged. Mayor Smitherman and the highbrow people of Selma didn’t stand by me, but they knew that I was protecting the interests of the good white folks of Dallas County. They still abandoned me in the next election, the one when the blacks started voting. That was the end of my days as Sheriff.

    https://www.teachingforchange.org/selma-bios

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Trump Threatens White House Protesters With ‘Vicious Dogs’ and ‘Ominous Weapons’
    A day after claiming he didn’t mean to suggest that law enforcement officials should shoot people who were part of the unrest in Minnesota, President Trump said on Saturday that the Secret Service had been prepared to sic the “most vicious dogs” on protesters outside the White House gates on Friday night.
    .. …..
    …….”Big crowd, professionally organized, but nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had they would have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen. That’s when people would have been really badly hurt, at least.”

    Mr. Trump claimed that Secret Service agents told him they were clamoring for engagement with the protesters. “We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and good practice,” he claimed he had been told.

    He also appeared to invite his own supporters to amass outside the White House on Saturday to counter the protesters, despite a ban against gatherings of more than 10 people in effect in Washington amid the coronavirus pandemic.
    …….
    Talking to reporters as he left the White House, Mr. Trump was asked about his tweet that seemed to invite his own supporters to rally outside the White House. As he often does, Mr. Trump distanced himself from his own statements, saying he was merely asking a question and that he didn’t know if people were coming. He claimed not to be trying to stoke racial strife.

    “By the way, they love African-American people, they love black people,” Mr. Trump volunteered, unprompted, describing his own supporters, who are overwhelmingly white.

    “MAGA loves the black people,” he added, ……..
    ……
    …….Honor the memory of George Floyd, honor his memory. They [the Minnesota’s governor and the mayor of Minneapolis] have to get tougher, and by being tougher they will be honoring his memory, but they cannot let that happen.”

    He again raised the prospect of sending in the military to quell the unrest.

    “We could have troops on the ground very quickly if they ever want our military,” Mr. Trump said.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  44. I’m glad I don’t need an unelected judge to tell me when my rights have been infringed. SMDH

    You can’t be informed of any-damn-thing. You’re the most narcissistic know-it-all since Duh Donald. You don’t know history, the law, or common courtesy. So, predictably, you’ll just keep slinging poo around and shaking your damned head.

    Your “rights” are lies you conjured and now defend against all reason and FACT.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  45. 45. Wow, Raggy. Just, wow. That’s all I can say since your post speaks for itself otherwise.

    Gryph (08c844)

  46. as if we haven’t seen this story in baltimore, ferguson et al, the sanford two step, seriously now,

    narciso (7404b5)

  47. 46. Wow, Moana. Just put up a counter-argument with authorities.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  48. Gratz to SpaceX and the Crew Dragon astronauts!

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. Two U.S. astronauts, both military aviators, have successfully lifted off heading into low-earth-orbit [LEO] aboard a new manned spacecraft atop a two-stage liquid-fueled rocket from the John F. Kennedy Space Center in Florida… going in circles, no place, fast.

    Been there; done that: March 23, 1965: Gemini 3, Gus Grissom & John Young.

    What goes around, comes around; it never grows old. Godspeed, Falcon Crew.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. Two U.S. astronauts, both military aviators, have successfully lifted off heading into low-earth-orbit [LEO] aboard a new manned spacecraft atop a two-stage liquid-fueled rocket from the John F. Kennedy Space Center in Florida…

    Reaganomics!

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Nailed the landing of the booster too. :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  52. 49. I can’t engage an argument made under false premises. All I can do is point out that it’s wrong. 2 + 2 != 5.

    Gryph (08c844)

  53. Kris Kobach Is Back, and a Kansas Senate Seat May Be Up for Grabs
    It has been 88 years since Kansas last sent a Democrat to the United States Senate — one of only three Democrats ever to represent the state in the upper chamber.
    ……..
    Republicans, meanwhile, are locked in an intraparty competition that has all of the trappings of a full-out brawl: attack ads, bitter recriminations between the candidates and a party chair who tried to intervene and sparked backlash. At the center of the fireworks is Kris W. Kobach, a hard-line Trump supporter who has been an incendiary presence in Kansas politics for years.

    Mr. Kobach is seeking the party’s nomination after losing a bid for governor two years ago, a defeat that embittered many Republicans who felt he hand-delivered the state’s top office to the opposition and who now worry he will do it again with the Senate seat.
    ……..
    “He had no ability to raise the money, to consolidate the different wings of his party, and to turn out any votes — besides that, he did great,” said Scott W. Reed, the senior political strategist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, referring to Mr. Kobach’s 2018 performance. “It appears Kobach would be a stretch to win a statewide election and would cause a lot of resources to be diverted.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  54. @53. LOLOLOLOLOLOL ROFLMAOPIP. Hardly.

    SpaceX lobbied for and is highly government-subsidized ‘partnership’ – from the Obama days on — literally from the ground up. Or have you forgotten it’s the U.S. taxpayer who paid to construct and maintain KSC and LC-39A, among other faculties– as well as the bulk o the costs of assembling and operating the ISS.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. 49. I can’t engage an argument made under false premises. All I can do is point out that it’s wrong. 2 + 2 != 5.

    So, you got nutin’…nutin’.

    If the premises are false, you could point out where.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. Anyone else starting to think that Ragspierre and Gryph are actually the same person, and their incessant Lucy-and-Ethel style bickering in the comments of what seems like every post isn’t some sort of colossal performance art joke they are playing on all of us?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  57. I guess Fred and Ethel would be the better analogy. I haven’t seen that show in years.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  58. 59. Damn skippy I got “nuttin” raggy. You’re telling me 2 + 2 = 5. And all I can really say to that is okay as I SMDH.

    Gryph (08c844)

  59. If “good cops” stand by while “bad apples” like Chauvin are unchecked, there aren’t any good cops.

    If “peaceful protesters” stand idly by while “rioters” run wild, there aren’t any “peaceful protesters”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  60. also 59. After all, if I point out where your arguments are premised falsely, you just cackle like a maniac, call me a “fringe nutter” or “narcissist” and pull another “nuh-uh.” So this time, I don’t think so.

    Gryph (08c844)

  61. 60. & 61. Oh God no. That’d be a trick, considering that my ID has remained constant in the entire time I’ve been commenting here. I’m pretty sure Raggy’s has remained constant as well, though I can’t be sure.

    Gryph (08c844)

  62. 63. Peaceful protesters are ill-equipped to handle violence, by-definition.

    Gryph (08c844)

  63. @58

    Poor Deezy-eska, his idols have feet of clay!

    A stoner car mechanic just built the most advanced spacecraft in the world and put it into orbit.

    Dave (1bb933)

  64. “If “peaceful protesters” stand idly by while “rioters” run wild, there aren’t any “peaceful protesters”.”

    Spare me your false concern. Your reaction to Kaepernick and protests like his just shows how full of it you are.

    I’m old enough to remember VP Pence spending $300,000 in taxpayer money so he could attend a football game, and then walk out when some players kneeled.

    I’ve seen what you cheer for.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  65. “A stoner car mechanic just built the most advanced spacecraft in the world and put it into orbit.”

    I think more credit belongs to Gwynne Shotwell. Elon is just the money guy.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  66. 60, I used to think nk and happyfeet were sock puppets manipulated by the same person

    urbanleftbehind (89a7a9)

  67. 61… or, to make it a little more current, akin to Frank and Estelle Costanza… although Estelle is much more vibrant, intelligent and coherent than pierre…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. After all, if I point out where your arguments are premised falsely, you just cackle like a maniac, call me a “fringe nutter” or “narcissist” and pull another “nuh-uh.” So this time, I don’t think so.

    First, YOU demonstrated you are a fringe nutter here. I’ll post your evidence if you insist.

    Second, you’ve DEMONSTRATED that you are a narcissist.

    Third, you’re the only one who’s said “nuh-uh” while lying and projecting it on me.

    NOW, put up or STFU.

    Your delusional view of your “rights” is like the cook who stops reading the recipe at, “First, in a four quart pan…” There’s more to it, Moana.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  69. @58-
    SpaceX lobbied for and is highly government-subsidized ‘partnership’ …….

    And taxpayers pay Lockheed and Boeing (through United Launch Alliance) to launch everything else. NASA (and the Air Force, now the Space Force) don’t build or launch their own spacecraft-everything is contracted out. So what?

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  70. hack-ew is only a troll.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  71. 60, I used to think nk and happyfeet were sock puppets manipulated by the same person

    nk does have a certain genius for doing happyfeet impersonations.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  72. 72. What is it now, Raggy Karen?

    Gryph (08c844)

  73. Sometimes I have to remind myself not to argue with idiots. I tend to lower myself to their level.

    Gryph (08c844)

  74. In Louisville, they just interviewed 5 white guys protesting with the crowd. Wearing Hawaiian shirts and carrying AR15’s, they are the Boogaloo Boys, a far right extremist group group trying to start the second civil war by instigating racial violence.

    Of course, Barr went on TV today to say it was only far left anarchists, he was lying, or just only happened to mention specifics for one group for political effect instead of explaining reality.

    The local WAVE TV crew asked him about his AK, hah.

    As I type I’m putting together a new parts kit on my pre-86 M16 receiver in case the Boogaloo boys come up the highway and want to boogaloo (verb?) on my lawn. Or because it’s needed it for 6 months and the parts kit came in today. Definitely one of those.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  75. 78. Were you ever a Boy Scout, Colonel? 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  76. You’ve been smoked out again, Moana. ALWAYS fun…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  77. @67. LOLOLOLOLOL ROFLMAOPIP you’ve bought into the hype. It’s Gagarin flight rules: the two are essentially ‘freight'; sealed in a “capsule” [SpaceX’s quaint retro-term for flight vehicle which had to be redesigned at customer NASA’s insistence to have an escape system;] a ‘capsule’ which is ground-controlled w/a crew a override option– just like ol’Yuri aboard Vostok 1 in ’61– or any Russian Progress ISS supply vehicle today. Even 1965’s Gemini 3 had more on-orbit input capability. But golly, them there touch-screen bells and whistles are neat-o!

    Elon will send people to Mars by 2025; Mars, Pennsylvania, that is. You need to revisit Arthur C. Clarke’s 1969 epilogue to ‘First Men On The Moon.‘ What he predicted then for LEO ops as NASA BEO ops proceed is essentially what you are witnessing now. The hype is launching Americans again from U.S. soil after a costly 9 year gap: Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. In Louisville, they just interviewed 5 white guys protesting with the crowd. Wearing Hawaiian shirts and carrying AR15’s, they are the Boogaloo Boys, a far right extremist group group trying to start the second civil war by instigating racial violence.

    Wait. What??

    Dana (0feb77)

  79. Five states now activating National Guard members
    Several states — Georgia, Kentucky, Wisconsin and now Colorado — are joining Minnesota in calling their National Guard forces to respond to the sometimes violent unrest that’s broken out amid demonstrations against black Americans’ deaths in police custody.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  80. 80. Okay…?

    Gryph (08c844)

  81. Anyone else starting to think that Ragspierre and Gryph are actually the same person, and their incessant Lucy-and-Ethel style bickering in the comments of what seems like every post isn’t some sort of colossal performance art joke they are playing on all of us?

    I’d say same person, two separate identities at war with each other.

    Seriously, it’s disappointing that you guys continually end up in a bitch fest. You’re both obviously intelligent people who think about the issues of the day. And although I tend to frequently disagree with one of you, I still like to hear views counter to my own, even if it only serves to solidify my already held views.

    Dana (0feb77)

  82. 86. Nope. I am not Raggy, and he is not me. I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it. I don’t know who shoved that broomstick up his sphincter, but rest assured this is not theater — political or otherwise.

    Gryph (08c844)

  83. Wait. What??

    Yup, this thing is just an excuse for wingnuts to instigate violence. Anarchists are anti-government, Alt-right militias are anti-government, and both are united in viewing this as an opportunity to create chaos. I believe in 2017 the IC came out with a report that much of the online fomenting for both far-left and far-right groups is coordinated by…Russian assets.

    This is a Putin fantasy, going on in a pandemic, it’s insane.

    I texted with Hal Lamberton a few minutes ago, and his Kentucky National Guard will be deploying 500 people to Louisville tonight. 22 years in myself, and I never had to do anything like this. This isn’t a situation where the training of an infantry reserve brigade applies, maybe an MP company, but I don’t think Kentucky has many outside of Fort Campbell active duty, which can’t deploy without an emergency being declared by the president.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  84. Anyone else starting to think that Ragspierre and Gryph are actually the same person, and their incessant Lucy-and-Ethel style bickering in the comments of what seems like every post isn’t some sort of colossal performance art joke they are playing on all of us?

    They are both so sure they are right that neither one bothers to listen to each other, let alone try to understand their respective points. All they do is insult. So, yes, they are exactly the same person.

    DRJ (15874d)

  85. 89. Whatever. If we’re exactly the same person, how come Raggy is one of the few people I’ve come to blows with? It seems like I’m not the only person Raggy has ever insulted, and there are others I’ve said I’m sorry to, or that I was mistaken. For some reason that absolutely eludes me, Raggy seems to have a hate-on for me. And if you want to know why, ask him.

    Gryph (08c844)

  86. Graph v. Ragspierre obligatory Star Trek reference.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  87. Sorry Gryph. Damn “spellcheck”.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  88. Geez, Col. Klink, I didn’t know about this :

    Boogaloo Boys” – individuals associated with an online community characterized by calls for civil strife and ownership of firearms and tactical gear – have advocated for an armed revolution online and at public rallies for months. On April 11, one self-proclaimed “Boogaloo Boy” allegedly used Facebook Live to show himself attempting to murder police.

    Same group as in Kentucky?

    Dana (0feb77)

  89. 91. Really, Rip? Isn’t anyone else here concerned that Karen seems to be openly hostile every time I assert my rights as an American citizen? Even (especially) if those assertions aren’t directed towards him? Come on…

    Gryph (08c844)

  90. 94. Whoops. *Karen Raggy

    Gryph (08c844)

  91. @94-
    No sense of humor.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  92. Same group as in Kentucky?

    Yup, seem to be coordinating via a private Facebook group.

    Facebook is allowing domestic terrorists to organize, Antifa, Anarchists….. Facebook makes Tritter look like a field of daisies.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  93. At least we don’t need to worry about this ….or do we?

    Monkeys steal coronavirus blood samples in India

    A troop of monkeys in India attacked a medical official and snatched away blood samples of patients who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus, authorities said on Friday.

    The attack occurred this week when a laboratory technician was walking in the campus of a state-run medical college in Meerut, 460 km (285 miles) north of Lucknow, capital of Uttar Pradesh state.
    ……
    Authorities said they were not clear if the monkeys had spilled the blood samples, but people living near the leafy campus feared further spread of the virus if the monkeys carried the samples into residential areas.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  94. right after the murder wasps

    narciso (7404b5)

  95. Rip Murdock (90b76a) — 5/30/2020 @ 2:36 pm

    Maybe he’s the one who is white on the left side.

    felipe (023cc9)

  96. 99… but before the Flamethrower Squirrels…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  97. They are both so sure they are right that neither one bothers to listen to each other, let alone try to understand their respective points. All they do is insult. So, yes, they are exactly the same person.

    Read 33. (above). There’s substance there, and you can refute it if you can.

    Gryph can’t, as we’ve demonstrated above. So, the assertion that these exchanges are all “insults” isn’t true, is it?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  98. The Boogaloo Movement Is Not What You Think
    ……..
    On the internet, meanwhile, a largely white, and far right movement publicly contended over what risks its members should take to support a black man killed by police.

    On the Facebook page, Big Igloo Bois, which at the time of writing had 30,637 followers, an administrator wrote of the protests, “If there was ever a time for bois to stand in solidarity with ALL free men and women in this country, it is now”.

    They added, “This is not a race issue. For far too long we have allowed them to murder us in our homes, and in the streets. We need to stand with the people of Minneapolis. We need to support them in this protest against a system that allows police brutality to go unchecked.”

    One commenter added, “I’m looking for fellow Minneapolis residents to join me in forming a private, Constitutionally-authorized militia to protect people from the MPD, which has killed too many people within the last two years.”

    ……… The “Boogaloo Bois” expect, even hope, that the warmer weather will bring armed confrontations with law
    Open source materials suggest that, for now, the apocalyptic, anti-government politics of the “Boogaloo Bois” are not monolithically racist/neo-Nazi. As we have observed, some members rail against police shootings of African Americans, and praise black nationalist self defense groups.

    But the materials also demonstrate that however irony-drenched it may appear to be, this is a movement actively preparing for armed confrontation with law enforcement, and anyone else who would restrict their expansive understanding of the right to bear arms. ……
    …….

    If there is a single common thread that unites the galaxy of Boogaloo Facebook groups, it is a desire to fight it out with the government. More specifically, members envision violent confrontations with local police and the “alphabet bois” in federal law enforcement agencies.

    Red Flag laws and gun confiscation are frequently cited as grounds for a hypothetical insurrection. …….
    …….
    The idea that a single event will trigger the Boogaloo is a binding myth for this movement, but civil wars are often complicated and unpredictable. Nevertheless, many rallies and armed protests are scheduled for the summer. Familiar pro-Trump, militia, and Patriot Movement groups are likely to be joined by a new crop of heavily armed and colorfully dressed “Boogaloo Bois” who are convinced that civil war is a foregone conclusion, and who have been goading one another towards armed confrontations with law enforcement.
    ……..
    As protests over the death of George Floyd heated up in Minneapolis on May 26th, members of Boogaloo groups across Facebook considered it a call to arms. Memes were churned up that day, adding George to the movement’s list of martyrs.
    ……..
    Long investigative piece about the Bugaloo movement and the role played by Facebook.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  99. About those ‘out-of-state agitators’:

    A.J. Lagoe
    @AJInvestigates

    Hennepin County Jail records show vast majority of those arrested for #rioting, unlawful assembly & burglary are Minnesotans @kare11 investigates learned. State leaders claimed most were “outsiders.” We requested arrest info from St. Paul & other agencies – so far not available.
    __ _

    It’s to the point now you have to wait 2-3 days minimum to get even the remote truth about anything.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  100. That SpaceX launch on YouTube was handled so bad. They do a fairly low-key NASA countdown to about two minutes and then bust in with an ‘NBC News Special Report’ hogwash lead-in till about 4 seconds before launch and then let NASA take over again.

    Destroyed the entire mood.

    harkin (9c4571)

  101. Really, Rip? Isn’t anyone else here concerned that Ragspierre seems to be openly hostile every time I assert my rights as an American citizen? Even (especially) if those assertions aren’t directed towards him? Come on…

    It’s really simple. I hate lies and the people who insist on telling them.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  102. All the Grim Reapers who were handing out body bags at parks and beaches are steering clear of the riots.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  103. 106. Yeah, I bet you do, Karen. I bet you do.

    Gryph (08c844)

  104. Gryph v. Ragspierre obligatory Star Trek reference II.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  105. 109. Okay, Rip. Yeah, I take it a little personally.

    Gryph (08c844)

  106. Still lacking a sense of humor, Karen.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  107. 111. When the jokes are at my expense and I’m called the twin (or whatever) of someone repeatedly accusing me of lying, in what context should I find that funny?

    Gryph (08c844)

  108. The Chicago PD’s response looks slightly less organized than the protesters. It’s like two mobs, not a single bit of strategic control at all.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  109. I also mentioned Ragspierre; It’s not being a twin, it’s being the opposite.

    When you need to explain the joke, Karen…..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  110. A couple of Chicago PD, just arrested a white guy dressed up as a cop. He was trying to throw his bag to another guy who tried to run away.

    I want to know who these folks are, because that is a recipe for disaster.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  111. 114. Ex-squeeze me? I’m pretty sure feeling insulted at a joke at my expense doesn’t make me a Karen. And even explained, I still don’t find it very funny. -.-

    Gryph (08c844)

  112. And no matter what you thought about Covid, this is going to blow up 3 or 4 weeks from now. If it was only a cold, it would be exploding.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  113. @116-
    So sensitive. I thought it was better than Fred & Ethel, or Frank & Estelle comparisons above. To which you a) apparently missed or b) don’t care.

    BTW, Ragspierre has better argument. I’ll let him continue to run circles around you.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  114. Trump has been nudging MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell to run for office

    President Donald Trump introduced those tuning into his nightly coronavirus task force briefing on Monday to a special guest: Mike Lindell, the multimillionaire inventor and CEO of the MyPillow empire.
    ……
    It’s hardly their first encounter. Lindell has told associates that the president is encouraging him to run for governor of Minnesota in 2022, to “keep Minnesota red beyond” the 2020 race, according to a person with direct knowledge of his comments.

    Trump told him that “he really wants me to run,” according to the source, who spoke with Lindell in late February soon after the MyPillow CEO’s conversation with Trump in the White House.
    ……
    Vote for the pillow hugger!

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  115. 118. A better argument for what? That I’m stupid and narcissistic for believing that locking down churches was (is?) a violation of the free exercise clause? I’m not exactly sure what his argument is, except “nuh-uh” and assorted name-calling.

    My “argument,” such as it was, is simply that I don’t need lawyers and judges to “interpret” the plain-text language of the constitution, particularly since English happens to be my native language. That wasn’t even directed at Ragspierre, and he commenced with the name-calling. If that’s what you consider a better argument, the bar is set awfully low here.

    Gryph (08c844)

  116. Those are the worst pillows on earth, nothing worse than a hot pillow.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  117. 119. I don’t think Lindell will run for office. He has too much integrity to be a politician.

    Gryph (08c844)

  118. Your “argument” is really just your opinion, supported not facts or history, but your feelings.

    This conversation is over.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  119. https://abc7chicago.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-death-el-nuevo-rodeo/6221253/

    Key detail about wife…Laotian, perhaps on the Michelle Malkin/Tia Tequila edge of the political spectrum, maybe lends credence to my Asian v. Black being the more germane race theory about this one.

    urbanleftbehind (89a7a9)

  120. That SpaceX launch on YouTube was handled so bad. They do a fairly low-key NASA countdown to about two minutes and then bust in with an ‘NBC News Special Report’ hogwash lead-in till about 4 seconds before launch and then let NASA take over again.

    Not sure where you watched it. I watched it on the SpaceX YouTube channel. Nothing like what you described happened. There was the usual filler/human interest material in the hour leading up to launch, but it was strictly business in the final minutes.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. 123. Rip, My argument is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” And you think, “Nuh-uh, narcissist” is a better argument. Hence, my assertion that Raggy’s argument amounts to 2 + 2 = 5. When I’m being told that something isn’t prohibiting the free exercise of religion, and I can see with my own two eyes that it plainly is, I don’t care if Raggy has an army of credentialed lawyers on his side telling him that I’m wrong.

    I haven’t even been to church in nearly 20 years. That’s not why I’m making this argument citing this clause in the bill of rights. We have 50 state governors and numerous mayors, city councilors, aldermen, and parish bosses wiping their collective ass with the constitution. And I’m told I’m supposed to be okay with that because a majority of nine unelected politicians have opinions of their own?!

    A better argument would be, “the bill of rights places limitations on congress, not the states.” But even that argument kind of went out the window with the incorporation doctrine. I just don’t think that Raggy has ever really argued in good faith, because if it was all about opinion, we could agree to disagree and move on. I’m not going to do that where my rights are concerned.

    You wanna give me the cold shoulder, feel free. But I’m not done. I’ll never be done as long as this system is so totally broken, all it takes is a sub-micron virus to scare our populace into accepting a police state.

    Gryph (08c844)

  122. Bunch of middle school girl commenters any more…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  123. Graph, what you think is the “free exercise of religion” and what the law says it is, are not the same.

    What the Constitution seems to say and what the Constitution actually says aren’t always the same thing. And what the law says it is can be a third thing. [As with the incorporation doctrine that you helpfully pointed to.] But if you don’t know what the lawyers and judges have said, you won’t know.

    I mean, a plain text reading of the First Amendment says I can practice human sacrifice, right?

    Kishnevi (9c6f01)

  124. Trump postpones the annual Group of Seven meeting of world leaders until September

    President Trump said Saturday that he will postpone until September the annual Group of Seven meeting of world leaders, which he had wanted to hold in-person by the end of June at the White House as the administration tries to project a return to normalcy amid the coronavirus pandemic.
    …..
    Trump also said he plans to invite Russia, South Korea, Australia and India. Russia was a member of the group of the globe’s major industrialized nations until 2014, when it was disinvited after its annexation of Crimea.
    …….
    Trump spoke with another G-7 leader, Emmanuel Macron of France, on Saturday, and the two presidents “discussed progress on convening the G7,” according to a statement from the White House.

    Macron’s office later put out a statement saying that it is important for all G-7 leaders to attend the meeting while raising the possibility he might not go if Merkel is not there.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  125. A better argument for what? That I’m stupid and narcissistic for believing that locking down churches was (is?) a violation of the free exercise clause? I’m not exactly sure what his argument is, except “nuh-uh” and assorted name-calling.

    Really…???

    33. NO state or our Federal Constitution exempts any religious entity from laws and regulations. Read the KAVANAUGH dissent for support of this FACT.

    EVERY state retained plenary police powers at the time of the Framing, and have always exercised them since.

    Without exception (that I know about) every state governor has the power to implement state laws via executive orders that DO have the force of law. Read the KAVANAUGH dissent for support of this FACT.

    NO Justice takes issue with the power of the states to restrict church attendance; the ONLY point of departure between them was whether Kuhlifornia’s restrictions were supported by a sufficient factual basis.

    NO Justice has found that the people of ANY state have been prohibited from religious observance.

    Now, refute any of that (anyone).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  126. Who to believe, the mayor of St. Paul…

    “I want to be very, very clear: The people that are doing this are not Minneapolis residents,” Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey added. “They are coming in largely from outside of the city, from outside of the region, to prey on everything we have built over the last several decades.”

    …or Hennepin County jail records

    ….KARE 11 found that of 36 cases, about 86 percent of those arrested listed Minnesota as their address.
    The data, taken from the Hennepin County Jail’s roster, shows that nearly all of the people arrested in likely connection to the riots live in Minneapolis or the metro area. The five cases from outside Minnesota were of people listed as living in Missouri, Florida, Arkansas, Michigan and Illinois.

    I think I’ll go with the actual records.
    The next question is who, as in who is committing the violence. Trump’s lapdog Attorney General is alleging this…

    “Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate and violent agenda,” he said. “In many places, it appears the violence is planned, organized and driven by anarchic and…far left extremist groups using Antifa-like tactics.”

    …but there also appear to be right-wing provocateurs causing mischief. Attacking the CNN Building, which is one of Trump’s Enemies of the People, would be the target of the Trump-sniffing Right, not “anarchists” or “far left extremist groups”. Once the dust settles, it’ll be interesting to see who was actually behind the violence and what their motivations were.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  127. There’s a little bit of something for everybody. From the guy who needs a new TV to Trump and the media who need a new news story besides the coronavirus over the weekend.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Live Coverage-Los Angeles: From downtown L.A. to the Westside, police cars go up in flames during protests over killing of George Floyd
    Protests over the death of George Floyd drew thousands of people Saturday to the Fairfax District, where a police car went up in flames at one intersection.
    …….
    A news photographer captured flames emerging from the SUV’s roof, windows and doors as people can be heard screaming in the background.

    The city of L.A. issued a curfew in downtown to start 8 p.m. Saturday and end 5:30 a.m. Sunday. Mayor Eric Garcetti announced the curfew while trying to empathize with protesters, calling for an end to violence against black Americans at the hands of police while condemning some of the destruction that’s emerged.
    …….
    During the evening, some people looted businesses downtown and several police vehicles were left vandalized, authorities said. More than 500 people were arrested.
    …….
    Live coverage at the link showing looters in the Fairfax district and Beverly Hills. Police are firing flash bang and rubber projectiles.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  129. which is one of Trump’s Enemies of the People, would be the target of the Trump-sniffing Right, not “anarchists” or “far left extremist groups”.

    Maybe you’re not paying attention to some of the Bernie Bros. To them, there’s not much difference between CNN and Fox, or between Biden and Trump. In their eyes they are all part of the same system, oppressing the little guy. That is why they self righteously announce they plan to not vote in November, or vote for the Greens. I’m sure the more violent ones would be happy if CNN burnt down.

    Kishnevi (afaa1a)

  130. Mayor Bill de Blasio just spoke about the protesters. He said it was a small minoroty And not from New York. He;s talked to other mayors and people are coming into their cities too. He said things happened that never happened in New York Cit protests.

    It seems like this is situation where the federal law against crossing a state line to create a riot would apply. People have just got to stop crediting these protesters with any honesty.

    And the New York City police are the best police.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  131. I think the most interesting question is what a bystander should do. Normally when you see a crime you call the cops. Here, it was a cop slowly murdering a man in broad daylight in full view of multiple people.

    He should still call the police.

    A different batch of police would possibly do something. But if yu think all police are the same, then you won;t. Or maybe if you don;t realize what is happening.

    In the call, he could even say things like there;s an officer who is paralyzed and doesn;t know how to complete an arrest. Or, if he knows try to get a superior officer n the scene. But don;t stand too close to those police.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  132. I know that cops like Chauvin are not representative of the majority of law enforcement officers

    But did the bystanders understand that? If they did, someone should have called the police.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  133. You can try your hand at docking the SpaceX Dragon with ISS here:

    https://iss-sim.spacex.com/

    Dave (1bb933)

  134. Chauvin posssibly knew George Floyd.

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-worked-security-at-same-minneapolis-nightclub

    eorge Floyd and former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin both worked as security guards at the same nightclub as recently as last year, but its former owner says she’s not sure if they knew each other.

    What she is certain of is how aggressive Officer Derek Chauvin became when the club hosted events that drew a mainly black clientele, responding to fights by taking out his mace and spraying the crowd, a tactic she told him was unjustified “overkill.”

    “He would mace everyone instead of apprehending the people who were fighting,” said Maya Santamaria, former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo club in Minneapolis. “He would call backup. The next thing you would know, there would five or six squad cars..”

    They didn’t work the same shifts. Chauvin worked security on weekends while George Floyd worked the occasional weeknight. Sometimes Floyd worked somewhere else nearby at the same time Chauvin was working.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  135. Montagu,

    Early days, but this Atlantan has heard nothing about the folks at CNN being MAGA types. The police do claim a lot of these folks are outsiders.

    Appalled (d0a951)

  136. And the New York City police are the best police.

    Oh, Sammy!

    nk (1d9030)

  137. All this over passing a counterfeit $20 bill that was an extremely poor forgery while drunk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together.html

    The fatal encounter began just before 8 p.m., when Mr. Floyd entered Cup Foods, a community store run by four brothers, and a store clerk claimed that he had paid for cigarettes with a counterfeit $20 bill. The police got a call from the store at 8:01 p.m.

    “Um, someone comes our store and give us fake bills, and we realize it before he left the store,” the caller said, according to a transcript released by the authorities, “and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car.”

    The store clerk demanded the cigarettes back. “But he doesn’t want to do that, and he’s sitting on his car ‘cause he is awfully drunk and he’s not in control of himself,” the clerk said, according to a transcript of the call to police. “He is not acting right.”

    [Why not ask for real money?]

    The dispatcher pressed for a description, and the caller described the man as tall, bald, about 6 feet tall.

    “Is he white, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?”

    “Something like that,” the caller replied.

    “Which one? White, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?”

    “No, he’s a black guy,” the caller said.

    Not long after, Angel Stately, a regular customer and former employee, arrived at the store looking for menthol cigarettes. The police were already outside. Ms. Stately said the clerk, a teenager, was feeling bad; he had called the police, he told her, only because it was protocol.

    The clerk held up a folded bill and showed it to her. The bill was an obvious fake, she said. “The ink was still running,” she said.

    Ms. Stately said she saw an officer approach Mr. Floyd, with his hand at his gun at his hip.

    The charging documents say that officers found Mr. Floyd in a parked blue car with two passengers. Soon, additional police units arrived and the officers tried to get Mr. Floyd into a police vehicle. But he struggled.

    “Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers, intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still,” according to the charging document.

    Even before he was placed on the ground under Mr. Chauvin’s knee, according to the prosecutors’ account, while standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying repeatedly that he could not breathe.

    Mr. Chauvin tried to place him in the police car with Officer J.A. Kueng’s help.

    At 8:19, Mr. Chauvin pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car. Mr. Floyd hit the ground, face down, handcuffs still on. Mr. Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s back while Officer Thomas Lane held his legs.

    Mr. Chauvin lodged his left knee in “the area of Mr. Floyd’s head and neck,” the documents said, and Mr. Floyd continued to protest: “I can’t breathe,” he said repeatedly.

    He called for his mother. He said, “Please.”

    One of the officers dismissed his pleas.

    “You are talking fine,” one officer said, according to the charging documents.
    At least one officer was worried: Mr. Lane asked if the officers should roll Mr. Floyd over on his side.
    “No, staying put where we got him,” Mr. Chauvin replied.

    “I am worried about excited delirium or whatever,” Mr. Lane said.

    “That’s why we have him on his stomach,” Mr. Chauvin responded.

    At 8:24 p.m., Mr. Floyd stopped moving.

    Mr. Kueng checked Mr. Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse. “I couldn’t find one,” he said.

    Still, none of the officers moved.

    At 8:27 p.m., eight minutes and 46 seconds after he had lowered himself onto Mr. Floyd’s neck, Mr. Chauvin finally released his knee.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  138. 141/ They are. Not perfect, but the best. The Albuquerwue police are probably about the worst in the United States of any police force of a substantial size. The police in that county on Georgia are bad, so much so there’s a move to abolish them, but that’s a small force. It was the son, though, who killed the jogger.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  139. The violence and spread of these riots isn’t just about what happened in St Paul. It a lot of people, terribly angry already, who just exploded given this match.

    I’ve been saying for a while that joblessness, coupled with the lockdown and the heat of summer would end up in violence. And here we are. If you’d spent the last two months cooped up with people you now know far too well, with no A/C, no income and the summer heat settling in, it wouldn’t be too hard to set something off.

    Part of what I was thinking when I said that economic crashes cost lives, too. Obviously not as MANY lives, but there will be hundreds dead from this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  140. The Albuquerwue police are probably about the worst in the United States of any police force of a substantial size.

    What makes you say that, Sammy?

    norcal (a5428a)

  141. I’m trying to get an update but am not finding it;

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/payments-to-albuquerque-officers-involved-in-shootings-called-bounty-system.html

    “You’re telling police that if you shoot somebody you’re going to get paid leave and you’re going to get $500,” said Mr. Gomez, whose son was unarmed when he was shot last May. “If the police shoot a person they get this. What does the family get? A funeral bill.”
    The controversy surrounding the payments has shed light on a little-known practice that police unions in at least a few other cities, including Phoenix, have engaged in for years.

    Advocates and others here have protested the Police Department’s 23 shootings by officers since 2010 [till 2012] — 18 of them fatal — with some people calling for the police chief’s resignation and for a Justice Department investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  142. There’s

    The Atlantic 2014:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/04/the-brutality-of-the-albuquerque-police-department/360514/

    New Yorker article, 2015:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased

    Albuquerque, the largest city in New Mexico with a population of 546,000, has 1,100 sworn officers. New York City, with a population of 8.4 million and a uniformed police force of 35,000, had 22 fatal shootings by officers in the same time period.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  143. That New Yorker article is a very good read, Sammy. Thanks!

    norcal (a5428a)

  144. 130. That’s kind of my point, Raggy. They have been prohibited from religious observance. That same court (though not all 9 of the same justices) has found that there is a right to abortion in the constitution, which there is not. That same court had found that Dred Scott was to be returned to his owner. You’re talking past me since I don’t care what the justices “found.” Arresting people attending church is not a “plenary police power.” It’s a violation of state *and* federal constitutions.

    Gryph (08c844)

  145. 128. Well yeah, a plain text reading does. But the federal government doesn’t technically forbid human sacrifice at all. State governments do. That would be a proper application of those “plenary policing powers” that Raggy likes to go on about. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  146. The federal government does not even have the authority to forbid ritual religious mutilation of children, according to one judge, who struck down the Female Genital Mutilation Act, since it does not affect interstate commerce.

    Trump’s DOJ decided not to appeal it (but the House of Representatives is appealing it). And they say Mr. Donald Trump the President, whose wives all soon learn that “to have it soft” has more than one meaning, is anti-Muslim.

    nk (1d9030)

  147. Arresting people attending church is not a “plenary police power.” It’s a violation of state *and* federal constitutions.

    No. That’s simply a lie you insist on chanting. It…and you…are detached from reality.

    Note that you did not…could not…refute one point of those stated above. You didn’t really try.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  148. 152. Of course I didn’t. You are asserting that 2 + 2 = 5. As I said before, I can’t debate a false premise. All I can do is assert that 2 + 2 = 4. As the late Ayn Rand so aptly pointed out, in order to debate coherently, one must first acknowledge the truth of what is and what isn’t. A = A, A != !A. Beyond that, it’s really not debating at all.

    Gryph (08c844)

  149. Ayn Rand so aptly pointed out, in order to debate coherently, one must first acknowledge the truth of what is and what isn’t.

    Which is what you cannot do. You insist on a Gryph (Moana) unique reality.

    If my premises are flawed, point out where. Step up.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  150. 154. I did. You are arguing from the premise that arresting churchgoers is a plenary police power when it is not. You are arguing that A = B. You will surely point out to me that the courts have held that it is, while I will again point out to you that the courts have made rulings in the past that I’m sure you disagree with. And here we are.

    Gryph (08c844)

  151. Well, today, after local reporters discovered that nearly everyone arrested had a Minneapolis address, the Governor says that the cops gave him bad information.

    Another James (a08854)

  152. human sacrifice is what sweeney todd cuomo and gryphon whitmer do, as a matter of course,

    narciso (7404b5)

  153. @43 That’s a nice eulogy of Col. and Rep. Johnson. Here’s a belated one for Capt. Bill Smith, who passed away a couple of years ago. He was one of the most interesting men I’ve ever know.

    Bill Smith joined the Air Force out of high school and became a pilot. He flew rescue missions behind enemy lines in Vietnam. After the war ended, he became a test pilot for fighter jets.

    He was flying over Colorado, when a technical malfunction caused him to lose control of the plane and he had to bail out over the Rocky Mountains before it crashed. He survived for several days with nothing but his uniform, as he made his way down a snow-covered mountain.

    Finally, he got to the base and saw a tourist riding a snowmobile. He waved, calling for help, and when the tourist did not respond, Bill Smith tackled him off the snowmobile and convinced him to take him to safety. The Discovery Channel made a documentary about his adventure some years ago, but I can’t find a link to it.

    The Air Force was so impressed with his survival skills, he was offered a position at Top Gun. But, as he now had choice of assignments, Bill Smith chose UFO surveillance at Rockwell. Yep, Area 51.

    He made his first million shortly after leaving the military, mostly through investments, particularly in real estate. He bought tracts of land in Minnesota and Canada, where he set up hunting camps. He was a survivalist, and for $2,000 he would take you out into the wild to hunt for elk and moose.

    He also bought tracts of land in the Rio Grande Valley, and a condo in this complex, which he declared as his primary residence to avoid state income taxes in Minnesota. (You’d be surprised at how many wealthy people from several states do that.)

    He had to fly down twice a year, every six months, to establish residency. And every time he did, he took us out to dinner, always at Red Lobster, because my mother was the broker who managed his properties down here.

    I miss those dinners. They were so much fun, because Bill Smith was quite the character. He was totally obsessed with UFOs and space aliens! Neither of which I believe in, but this was the guy to talk to.

    Twice a year for twenty years, I had dinner with him. We had the most engaging conversations. He would say something about an unidentified flying object he saw. I would say, well, it could have been a meteor glancing off the atmosphere, or ball lightning, or a swarm of bioluminescent insects.

    He would stare blankly at me, then go on and on about UFOs. I kept telling him, Bill, there are no flying saucers and no space aliens. Everything on Earth originated on Earth. There are no extraterrestrials, there never has been and never will be.

    Look, by definition a living being metabolizes energy, grows, develops, and reproduces. The requires nutrients, some form of food, water and air. None of which exist in outer space. Any form of transportation requires fuel and maintenance. None of which exist in outer space. So the idea of intergalactic or interplanetary space flights is ludicrous in the extreme.

    These space aliens, what are they going to eat, drink and breathe? These spaceships, where are they going to get fuel and where do they go for maintenance? The operative word in science fiction is fiction.

    It’s all so nonsensical. Star Trek, Star Wars, it’s all made up fantasy. None of it is real.

    But Bill Smith would not listen to reason. He kept insisting flying saucers and space aliens were real. War of the Worlds conspiracy theory. It was hilarious.

    I miss those dinners.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  154. You are arguing from the premise that arresting churchgoers is a plenary police power when it is not.

    You are starting from a whole set of falsehoods.

    In the case at issue, nobody was being arrested, so that’s false.

    Health and safety laws are part of the police power of every state, so you denying that is a false statement (even by implication).

    No state or any other constitution exempts any religious entity from law and regulation, so your statement there is a falsehood.

    Any state may restrict building loading according to law, and that would, of course and in reality, include churches.

    No court anywhere in the US has found that restrictions on churches have denied anyone religious liberty, so your whole hair-on-fire loopiness is unsupported and unsupportable.

    This is just another instance of Gryph The Great being “right” about things he deludes himself into feeling, while everyone else is “a dog eating crumbs from the table”.

    Ayn Rand would also observe you can’t debate with a fringe nutter.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  155. Just a reminder, if these left wing cities and states that said we had to shut down and stay shut down because of the Wuhan Flu were serious, they would’ve put down these riots strongly and immediately due to their alleged public safety clauses. But they haven’t because of “reasons.” So we know they’re full of it.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  156. Where have all the Karen Terriers gone?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  157. Well, Rob, that makes as much sense as most of your stuff.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  158. https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/05/biden-staff-donate-group-pays-bail-riot-torn-minneapolis/

    For all those who think supporting Biden means going back to normal, it depends on what you mean by normal.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  159. Gryph,

    the sooner you accept that Raggy is a moby who is here to cause demoralization and rile people up, the easier it will be to ignore him… when you aren’t mocking him. There are others here that fit the same bill if they aren’t his alter egos.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  160. Now Roberta, that’s a false personal attack that employs your usual name-calling and gas-lighting.

    Shame!

    If you can, you can take on my argument. I doubt you have the wattage, but I can be surprised.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  161. ‘room to destroy’ isn’t that the way they called it, yes social distancing isn’t a priority anymore,

    https://conexaopolitica.com.br/ultimas/brazilian-scientists-and-academics-write-an-open-letter-on-the-science-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    narciso (7404b5)

  162. At least 13 Biden campaign staff members posted on Twitter on Friday and Saturday that they made donations to the Minnesota Freedom Fund, which opposes the practice of cash bail, or making people pay to avoid pre-trial imprisonment. The group uses donations to pay bail fees in Minneapolis.

    It’s called putting their money where their mouth is. Perhaps you haven’t noticed getting rid of bail is another progressive cause of late?

    Kishnevi (34601d)

  163. It’s called putting their money where their mouth is. Perhaps you haven’t noticed getting rid of bail is another progressive cause of late?

    Kishnevi (34601d) — 5/31/2020 @ 8:37 am

    That’s called making excuses for those supporting the rioters and people ruining others lives.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  164. It’s called putting their money where their mouth is.

    Wow, so very noble. Let me know when they put their gated neighborhoods where their mouth is.

    beer ‘n pretzels (7d3bfd)

  165. That’s called making excuses for those supporting the rioters and people ruining others lives.

    What about due process? If you are arrested, you aren’t necessarily a rioter.

    Now, I personally totally support shooting looters and rioters, but that is not universally considered the right solution. You and I are not the people who have to make those decisions.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  166. 165. “Nuh-uh,” said the Karen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  167. At least 13 Biden campaign staff members posted on Twitter on Friday and Saturday that they made donations to the Minnesota Freedom Fund, which opposes the practice of cash bail, or making people pay to avoid pre-trial imprisonment. The group uses donations to pay bail fees in Minneapolis.

    I seriously doubt that campaign staffers are living in gated communities.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  168. 171. Back to projection, hey, Moana?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  169. I seriously doubt that campaign staffers are living in gated communities.

    I seriously doubt any of these staffers live in the neighborhoods that were torched…. which was the obvious point… that just whizzed over you.

    beer ‘n pretzels (7d3bfd)

  170. Yah. I can only read what you write. Mind-reading is not my forte.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  171. Rip Murdock (90b76a) — 5/30/2020 @ 10:58 am

    Yeah, I’m sure they will come to have a swab shoved up their nose.

    You know, they could do a saliva test. And it probably would not have any more false negatives.

    But that’s another thing that’s not happening because of the FDA and all the procedures they have for doing anything new.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  172. 170. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 5/31/2020 @ 9:02 am

    I seriously doubt that campaign staffers are living in gated communities.

    But they are still living in safe neighborhoods or suburbs. Where the people released on bail simply do not go.

    You only have gated communities in areas geographically near to unsafe places.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  173. You only have gated communities in areas geographically near to unsafe places.

    Sorry, Sammy. That is simply not true.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  174. 178. But Sammy isn’t a liar, and I am? :-O

    Gryph (08c844)

  175. You only have gated communities in areas geographically near to unsafe places.

    I live in a gated community halfway between Cincinnati and Lexington. If you’re talking near on the galactic level sure, but if your talking about normal human “near” then it’s an hours drive.

    When we lived in Pleasanton, gated, very safe. Vegas, gated, very safe country club.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  176. This from Ragspierre

    You can’t be informed of any-damn-thing. You’re the most narcissistic know-it-all since Duh Donald. You don’t know history, the law, or common courtesy. So, predictably, you’ll just keep slinging poo around and shaking your damned head.

    and

    First, YOU demonstrated you are a fringe nutter here. I’ll post your evidence if you insist.

    Second, you’ve DEMONSTRATED that you are a narcissist.

    merit a vacation and perhaps (in the context of this being a longstanding problem) a ban. I have moderated him and that will continue for at least a week. I’m leaning towards a ban, since Ragspierre tends to be proud of his tendency to belittle others and is thus unlikely to change. What’s needed for it to be a vacation and not a ban is some kind of commitment to change. I would love to see that, especially since I think he has the better of the argument in this thread, and so it’s certainly not his point of view I’m objecting to, but the way he seems to feel compelled to express it. It’s bothering a lot of people.

    Gryph, I see your comments as more reactive, but it looks like I am in the minority, as a lot of people seem to think you’re participating in this too. And I do see comments like “Sometimes I have to remind myself not to argue with idiots” and repeated references to him as “Karen” and such. Again, I find this mainly reactive on your part, so I’m going to resist (for now) suggestions that I give you a vacation as well, but you should be aware how your engaging in a certain amount of tit-for-tat is being received.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  177. Trump said he’s going to denote Antifa as a domestic terror group today. I find that kind of odd, since it’s not a group, it’s a description, it’s a loose knit group of other organizations, BLM, etc. Is he going to make the alt-right into a DTG?

    If you’re going to do this, you need to pick the actual group, not the category. BLM, sovereign citizens, 3%rs, Oathkeepers… There’s been more violence just from these loons than BLM, but two things can be true.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  178. Patterico, thank you for the relief you have given us from Ragspierre. Your restraint is commendable.

    felipe (023cc9)

  179. ” I find that kind of odd, since it’s not a group, it’s a description, it’s a loose knit group of other organizations, BLM, etc. Is he going to make the alt-right into a DTG?”

    It’s not odd. It’s performative signalling to his base, just like his executive order earlier. Neither he nor they ultimately care whether it accomplishes anything.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  180. “ As of 11am CST on Saturday, a sample of data from the Hennepin County Jail’s shows that 86% of those arrested provided a Minnesota address to police. Later in the day, St. Paul released arrest information showing that two-thirds of people arrested since Thursday gave police in-state addresses.”

    Saint Paul Mayor Walks Back Claim That Everyone Arrested Was From Out Of State

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/saint-paul-mayor-walks-back-claim-that-everyone-arrested-was-from-out-of-state
    __

    I give him an F for effort.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  181. Squashing ANTIFA would be very difficult because they have sympathizers, even enablers in govt.

    Also, many of same fear confronting them.

    Look at Portland, Berkeley, the AG of MN even promotes The ANTIFA Handbook for its ability to ‘strike fear in the heart of #realdonaldtrump’.

    When ANTIFA brazenly comes into town and orchestrates destruction, the local officials blame white nationalists.

    Striking fear is the ultimate goal of terrorists.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  182. 40. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/30/2020 @ 11:43 am

    The local Louisville mayor said it was “people from outside of town” doing all the rioting. That’s vague enough to been anything and nothing, but these outside of town folks must be depopulating the rest of the country, because the rioting is happening in dozens of cities, so where are they all supposed to be coming from.

    Probably Cyberspace, like the people who came to Charlottsville in 2017, or perhaps, “Occupy Wall Street” in 2011.

    We’ll find out some more. They’re not local. Many of them are white. Some may have prepared for this for months. A common tactic was to jump out of crowd of useful idiots, throw a rock to break a window or something on fire to start a fire, and then jump back in.

    In some cases, particularly in Minneapolis, they may actually be white supremacists, or known as such. Others have ties to organized crime. (or they’re just anarchists)

    https://maryturck.com/2020/05/30/whos-rioting-and-why

    Local voices tell the same story: white men in vans setting fires, protesters trying to stop arsonists, a white man with a hammer smashing windows, people coming from outside to destroy community institutions. The governor and other public officials insist that the rioters come from out of town, many from out of state.

    She had no idea who they were actually, though. We’ll find out more.

    https://maryturck.com/2020/05/29/update-in-the-middle-of-it-all

    Quoting Jeremy Levinger on Facebook original page may have been removed: (Boldface italics mine)

    “A decent chunk of yesterday was spent speaking to other white males and telling them not to break into businesses or burn down businesses of color, both in Midway and over South. A whole lot of white ‘anarchists’ are out here not from the Twin Cities indiscriminately breaking and burning everything. When we told them not to burn or smash a building because it was owned by people of color, some didn’t care and still attacked the buildings. My friend later put out a fire in a restaurant caused by a white man’s Molotov cocktail. We also saw a black man with a machete enter a recently broken into library and protect it from further damage as local indigenous activists put out a fire in there. Please be aware that so much of this destruction is caused by white men who don’t care about the well-being of communities of color.”

    Another person wrote that in St. Paul, Minnesota, there was no protest, ” – it started as a looting, continued as a looting + arson” and if anyone came ro protest they either left quickly or stood around to watch the show.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  183. @125. That SpaceX launch on YouTube was handled so bad. They do a fairly low-key NASA countdown to about two minutes and then bust in with an ‘NBC News Special Report’ hogwash lead-in till about 4 seconds before launch and then let NASA take over again.

    If you can’t handle the program, change the channel: CSPAN carried uninterrupted countdown coverage for hours via NASA Select/SpaceX sources from crew suit-up through vehicle ingress, launch, staging and initiation of on-orbit ops. Customer NASA has mandatory flight rules SpaceX [or any other contracted operator, military or commercial] must follow for launches from KSC facilities, too. It may have seemed ‘low key’ but it is not; it depends on which audio loop[s] are tapped for open broadcast beyond the NASA PAO — which in this case, was up to the SpaceX PR folks as it was their bird to fly. Such is the nature [good or bad] of a proprietary organization.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  184. Re; Gated communities: I am familiar with Sea Gate, agated community on CoeyIsland. Also the gated community George Zimmerman lived in, in Florida, was near a higher crime area.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  185. Spent a few years in Auburn Lake Trails, gated community in Cool, CA (yep that’s really a place).

    Awesome neighborhood and over an hour from anything remotely considered urban/ghetto.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  186. “If you can’t handle the program, change the channel: CSPAN carried uninterrupted countdown coverage for hours via NASA”

    Well, I was out and about and watching on my phone and actually thought it was a NASA feed since the previous ten minutes had been commercial free and otherwise exactly like every launch watch i’ve seen since the Mercury program.

    I wasn’t prepared for the NBC s**t show with only a couple minutes before launch.

    Thanks for the tip, I’ll try CSPAN next time.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  187. Attention supporters of the Twitter Truth Police:

    Josh Jordan
    @NumbersMuncher

    It’s now been 24 hours since @jack retweeted the story that every person arrested in MN was from out of state.

    That was debunked early yesterday, so why isn’t it flagged as misleading news with a fact check underneath?

    Just wondering why the rules aren’t applying here.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  188. 183 on the closed thread:

    183. The important point is that, while in 2016, people who didn’t like both Donald Trump and his Democratic opponent broke for Trump, this time they are breaking for his opponent.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  189. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/officials-blame-outsiders-for-violence-in-minnesota-but-contradict-each-other-on-who-is-responsible/2020/05/30/d722e9d6-a2b1-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html

    e, leaders at the federal, state and local levels said large numbers of outsiders had seized upon protests begun by Minnesotans to advance their own political agendas.

    But the officials offered little evidence to show who was responsible and contradicted one another on who was to blame.

    They variously assigned responsibility for the escalating violence to far-right nationalists, left-wing radicals, drug cartels and possibly foreign agents in statements, news conferences and presidential tweets.

    It may be all of the above.

    …….

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  190. https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1266925493384736769

    Monsters. Do not look unless you want to see rioters stomping on a man and trying to kill him.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  191. @195-
    Saw that I ‘92.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  192. Trump says he’s naming Antifa a ‘Terrorist Organization.’ Can he do that?
    President Donald Trump tweeted on Sunday that the U.S. government would be “designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.”

    There were just two problems with that. First, he doesn’t appear to have the legal authority to do so. And second, it’s by no means clear the loosely defined group of radical activists is an organization at all.
    …..,
    ……. In an on-camera statement Saturday, Barr said the Justice Department wouldn’t hesitate to prosecute people who crossed state lines to participate in violence, citing his authorities under anti-riot legislation.

    Barr did not invoke laws against terrorism, which do not let the U.S. government designate purely homegrown groups as terrorist organizations. ……. [T]he U.S. has no domestic terrorism statute, and the FBI uses other legal authorities to prosecute domestic terrorism here. …….
    ……..
    “There currently exists no legal authority to designate domestic organizations as terror organizations, and any such designation would raise serious First Amendment concerns,” said Mary McCord, who heads Georgetown University’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection……
    …….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  193. Bill of attainder. Another spit bubble from the orange baboon to be licked up by his lickspittles.

    nk (1d9030)

  194. Almost all the gated communities in my general area are in very safe middle to upper-middle suburbs and exurbs. Most of the crime in the neighborhoods w/out the gate is probably DV and kids stealing bikes. Most of the crime in the gated neighborhoods? Also DV and kids stealing bikes and they have to pay an extra gate fee.

    Nic (896fdf)

  195. Actually, it’s not a bill of attainder. A bill of attainder is a law that 1) specifically identified the people to be punished; 2) imposed punishment; and 3) did so without benefit of judicial trial. United States v. Lovett 328 U.S. 303 (1946)

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  196. Trump Is Terrified of Protest
    ……
    When Marine One deposited Trump on the South Lawn last night after his day trip to Florida, the president walked toward the entrance of the White House amid a cacophony of car horns and chanting protesters who flung themselves against barricades in an hours-long clash with police. Trump hasn’t seen demonstrations on this kind since he assumed office in January 2017. Protesters breached an outer checkpoint at 17th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue at one point yesterday afternoon. All day long, cars streamed toward the White House, with passengers leaning out the windows and chanting, “Black lives matter!” As one car passed a White House gate at 15th and E Streets, a group of men shouted at the guards: “F@@@ you.” On sidewalks littered with soiled masks and empty water bottles, demonstrators pumped their fists in solidarity and demanded respect for African Americans—a community whom Trump says he “loves.”
    ……..
    Trump has made known his disdain for protests that target him or his record. He tends to view them through a simple lens: as provocations that must be put down with unyielding force. Less important to Trump, it seems, are the grievances that give rise to the demonstrations in the first place. He’s described himself as a “law and order” president who admires practitioners of a certain rough justice. Yesterday, he tweeted praise for two generals from history: George Patton and Douglas MacArthur (he misspelled MacArthur). Both played a role in the government’s heavy-handed quashing of a protest in 1932 by war veterans who, in the midst of the Great Depression, wanted early payment of a bonus they were due.
    ……
    …….. Trump’s instinct is to plunge into combustible circumstances in ways that rouse his base. He encourages protests that align with his interests. Eager to see an economic revival, Trump last month egged on demonstrators who pressed Democratic governors to ease stay-at-home orders despite the coronavirus threat “LIBERATE” Michigan, Virginia, and Minnesota, he tweeted. (Some protesters showed up in the Michigan state Capitol with guns and tactical gear).
    ……
    On Friday morning, Trump tweeted, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts,” suggesting that the people ransacking stores could be met with deadly force. (He later softened his comment, saying he meant only that he didn’t want to see violence escalate.) “President Trump has thrown a verbal Molotov cocktail into what is already an explosive, emotional situation,” Valerie Jarrett, a former senior aide to President Barack Obama, told me. “He should be doing the exact opposite. He’s playing to a very small part of his base for political purposes.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  197. 181. Pat, I recognize that I am being given the benefit of the doubt here and for that, I thank you

    Gryph (08c844)

  198. A serious divide exists among Trump advisers over how to address nights of protests and riots in US after Floyd’s death
    A serious divide has emerged among Donald Trump’s top allies and advisers over how the President should address several nights of protests and riots across the nation following the death of George Floyd. Trump is being urged by some advisers to formally address the nation and call for calm, while others have said he should condemn the rioting and looting more forcefully or risk losing middle-of-the-road voters in November, according to several sources familiar with the deliberations.
    …….
    Over the weekend, some aides sought to convince Trump against using violent rhetoric…….would not appear presidential.
    ……..
    During a staff call Friday, Trump’s top domestic policy aide Brooke Rollins argued for a measured response to riots the night before, advice that was echoed by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner. Several advisers feared, and hoped to avoid, another Charlottesville moment……
    …….
    Trump is also hearing from several advisers who warned that by not condemning the protests after the death of Floyd, an unarmed 46-year-old black man, that turned into rioting and looting, he is risking losing some demographics that will be key to his election victory in November, like suburban women voters. …….
    ……
    Trump has been hesitant to hold another Oval address after his last one regarding the coronavirus was widely panned. …….
    ……..
    Every time Trump speaks from a teleprompter he sounds like a hostage reading a script (in a sense he is a hostage to himself.) Anyway, no one would believe his crocodile tears. Trump doesn’t have an ounce of sincerity or empathy in his body. And Trump gave up being “Presidential” on 1/20/17.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  199. Mr. Nic, gated communities are like the “binary choice” for President. Based on unsupported assumptions and suppositions, unfounded hopes, and chimerical fears.

    nk (1d9030)

  200. AIPAC cancels 2021 conference over concerns about pandemic
    The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobbying group better known as AIPAC, announced Sunday that it would cancel its 2021 conference in Washington because of “uncertainties created by the COVID-19 pandemic.”

    “Without a predictable avenue to safely bring together thousands of pro-Israel Americans, we have been forced to cancel the 2021 AIPAC Policy Conference,” the group said in a statement released on Twitter.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)


  201. David Reaboi
    @davereaboi

    “Two Brooklyn lawyers, including an Ivy League graduate corporate attorney, are facing federal charges for tossing a Molotov cocktail into an NYPD vehicle.” https://nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-molotov-nypd-brooklyn-lawyers-charged-20200531-nxamwxnjmzgvzmczi6z2ypcbzi-story.html

    https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1267178745103814677?s=20
    __ _

    I don’t think there’s anybody more oppressed than a corporate lawyer.
    _

    Tomorrow’s Dem leaders today!!
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  202. 206. Lawyers? O_o Those morons aren’t doing any favors for my perception of their profession.

    Gryph (08c844)

  203. “ On Friday morning, Trump tweeted, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts,” suggesting that the people ransacking stores could be met with deadly force. (He later softened his comment, saying he meant only that he didn’t want to see violence escalate.”
    _

    Lost in all this is that when rioters were confronted with armed shop-owners, the violence de-escalated/moved on down the road.

    Potential deadly force is much more often effectively used as deterrent than violence….that is unless you are a cop and you’ve been told not to attempt to stop the looting.

    And guess what? Gun sales are soaring.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  204. ah mary mccord who rode herd on the fisa warrant, based on the fraudulent dossier, a real legal authority,

    narciso (7404b5)

  205. of course who was mccords legal advisor, none other that atkinson, who was the ig who pushed the phony whistleblower complain, black bloc, goes back at least twenty years to antonio negri, ex associate of the brigatte rossi, inspiration for the seattle 1999 protests, they were part of the answer stalinists, resurfaced as the occupy movement, involved in at least bombing attempt in ohio, surfaced again under the antifa/resistance banner,

    narciso (7404b5)

  206. Meanwhile the purges continue
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1219721

    Kishnevi (c8a946)

  207. Don’t Expect A Quick Recovery. Our Survey Of Economists Says It Will Likely Take Years.
    The reopening of the economy might seem like a promising sign. After all, as shuttered stores and restaurants reopen, workers can return to their jobs or look for new positions, and industries that have seen slowdowns can resume operations. Some politicians — including President Trump — have promised a fast recovery.
    ……
    …….[W]e partnered with the Initiative on Global Markets, a research center at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, to survey a group of quantitative macroeconomic researchers who work in academic settings about the trajectory of the economic crisis. …….
    …….
    Our sample of economists thought it was more likely than not — with an average probability of 54 percent — that the next quarter to see positive real GDP growth in the U.S. (relative to the previous quarter) would be the third quarter of 2020. But that’s probably a low bar to clear; the economy shrunk by 4.8 percent in the first quarter and is likely to contract even more in the second quarter. And there’s a significant chance that the contractions could continue further into the future: The forecasters we polled thought there was a 23 percent chance that the economy would not grow again until the fourth quarter of 2020 and a 22 percent chance that it wouldn’t grow until the first quarter of 2021 or later.
    ……
    ……. We presented the economists with four specific options of how the trajectory of GDP might look as charted over 2020 and beyond: V-shaped, with a sharp fall and a sharp rebound; U-shaped, with a long period between the beginning of the recession and the recovery; W-shaped, with a sharp recovery followed by another sharp fall and recovery; or “Swoosh”-shaped, with a sharp decline followed by a very slow recovery (picture the Nike logo). More than half of respondents — 58 percent — thought the long, slow recovery of a “Swoosh” shape was most likely, with 19 percent predicting a U-shape and 13 percent calling for a W-shape with multiple declines and recoveries. Tellingly, only 1 out of 31 economists forecasted a V-shape, which would see a quick recovery after the sharp decline of the past few months.
    …….
    ……. The researchers predicted, on average, only an 11 percent chance that real GDP will have caught up to its pre-crisis (fourth quarter of 2019) level by the first half of 2021 and only a 17 percent chance that it will have caught up to its pre-crisis level by the end of 2021. On average, they thought there was roughly a 40 percent probability that GDP would return to its pre-crisis levels sometime in 2022. But they assigned a 32 percent chance to the possibility that GDP wouldn’t return to its pre-crisis level until 2023 or later.
    ………
    There was a similarly bleak prediction for the unemployment rate. ……. In general, the consensus of the forecasters was that there is only an 18 percent chance that the unemployment rate will fall below 10 percent this year, and a 36 percent chance that it won’t fall below 10 percent until after the second quarter of 2021 — over a year from now. …..[T]he unemployment rate had been at or above 10 percent for only 11 months total from 1948 through 2019.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  208. 213. This is what economic suicide looks like, Rip. But hey, at least we’re safe(r?), amiright?

    Gryph (08c844)

  209. OMG, Redstate has got the photo that proves it’s all antifa.

    Wait, doesn’t that look like a screen grab from a video posted in Jan?

    From a protest that happened in 2017.

    But it’s not like the OP is known for inventing things that didn’t happen though…

    According to the Seattle PD

    the driver was charged with fleeing the scene of an accident. The driver was an “acquaintance” of Ms. Daviscourt and the complaint from her has been withdrawn. No charges for filing a false police report will be made at this time.

    Now, were these people antifa, maybe possibly. It just didn’t happen this week, or this year.
    But it’s definitely a photo, from a video, that was posted at a time.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  210. @210 Trump had both legislative bodies and the executive branch for 2 years and yet the FISA process was not tightened up. Guess it isn’t actually the FISA process that was the problem.

    Nic (896fdf)

  211. 215. Minnesota politicians have a vested interest in painting these protests in the least unflattering light that they possibly can. And if that means lying, then I guess so be it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  212. 216. Trump didn’t sign the TSA into law either, but I wasn’t naive enough to think he would actually get rid of that, either. To put it another way, Trump is a symptom of a far deeper rot.

    Gryph (08c844)

  213. narciso-
    Any comments on the substance?

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  214. 215. Colonel, did you notice the caption on that photo at Redstate that said “Seattle Antifa?”

    Gryph (08c844)

  215. @215 Redstate decided their editorial viewpoint several years ago and since it is “Whatever Trump says is correct.” it is both dishonest and mercurial. At least they seem to have stopped having the same person write all their world’s most ridiculous click-bait headlines on every article.

    Nic (896fdf)

  216. One thing that’s not hard to do is for judges to hold arrested rioters without bail. It’s legal and constitutional since they are a continuing danger to the community.

    nk (1d9030)

  217. Colonel, did you notice the caption on that photo at Redstate that said “Seattle Antifa?”

    Yeah, I noticed. They got the city right, they just missed the context by years.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  218. Biden’s in one of the best positions for any challenger since scientific polling began
    A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows former Vice President Joe Biden clearly ahead of President Donald Trump. Biden’s up by a 53% to 43% margin among registered voters in this survey.
    …….
    …….He’s the first challenger to be ahead of the incumbent in every May poll since Jimmy Carter did so in 1976. Carter, of course, won the 1976 election. Biden’s the only challenger to have the advantage in every May poll over an elected incumbent in the polling era.
    …….
    Indeed, the stability of Biden’s edge has been what is most impressive. …….
    ……..
    A look at the fundamentals shows why Trump continues to trail. Simply put, he remains unpopular.
    His net approval rating (approval – disapproval) in the ABC News/Washington Post poll was -8 points. That’s very close to the average of polls, which has it at about -10 points. At no point during the past three years has Trump ever had a positive net approval rating.

    The only other two presidents to have a net approval rating this low at this point in the campaign were Carter in 1980 and George H.W. Bush in 1992. Both of them lost reelection.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  219. harkin (9c4571) — 5/31/2020 @ 1:50 pm

    Tomorrow’s Dem leaders today!!
    _

    Only one wss a corporate lawyer. A member of Community Board 5. The other lawyer was a woman but nota corporate lawyer could be his girlfriend.

    I guess he thought nobody would see him. You;d expect him to be the boss, not do it himself. What happened?

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  220. 223. True, that.

    Gryph (08c844)

  221. I guess the Target logo is a literal as well.

    The city of brotherly love is not quite a thing.

    Also, if you’re pulling up in your car to loot a store on video, license plates are a thing, just an FYI.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  222. Is a literal, hah.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  223. 227. License plates are a thing, yes, but only for telling who owns a car. That can be problematic when multiple individuals wearing masks are all in the same car.

    And even with the video, it would actually be easier to identify these goons without masks than with. Strikes me as one helluva coincidence that politicians were begging these protestors to wear masks just before the rioting started.

    Gryph (08c844)

  224. What are all these isolated places gated for? To keep out salesmen? Children?

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  225. @230 Security theater.

    Nic (896fdf)

  226. I will say this. Black Facebook is eagerly defending their fellows from charges of looting by posting security and cell phone camera pictures of every white looter. Should make identification of criminals a bit easier.

    Kishnevi (c8a946)

  227. Trump envisioned ‘American carnage.’ Now, he’s got it.
    When Trump first addressed the nation as its president on Jan. 20, 2017, he depicted the nation’s cities as domestic combat zones and declared “this American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”

    …..[I]t’s become reality on his watch, and he has encouraged further violence…….

    …….[C]ities across the country are now combustible cauldrons of fear, anger, fire and tear gas as Trump has responded to the violence with threats and little evidence of understanding its cause.

    …….Trump has largely thrown rhetorical Molotov cocktails over the front lines of the national uprising from the safety of his White House bunker.

    In other words, the president met protests against state violence with calls for more of it.

    He has threatened protesters in the park across the street from his home with “vicious dogs” and “ominous weapons,” suggested that looters in Minneapolis would be shot as he referred to protesters as “thugs,” and prepared the Pentagon to use military force against American citizens. …….
    …….
    “ Trump is far more divisive than past presidents — his strength is stirring up his base, not calming the waters,” said Dan Eberhart, a major Republican donor who lives in Arizona. “President Trump’s use of the word ‘thugs’ on Twitter may have expressed what some Americans were thinking but was ill-advised and could only serve to exacerbate the situation and weaken his credibility with the protesters.”
    …….
    Trump is realizing the “American carnage” he envisioned when his presidency began.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  228. Yes, Sammy, and a multitude of barbarians as well. The gates are meant to reinforce the “private” in private community.

    felipe (023cc9)

  229. And even with the video, it would actually be easier to identify these goons without masks than with. Strikes me as one helluva coincidence that politicians were begging these protestors to wear masks just before the rioting started.

    The people in the cars weren’t masked or anything, just nonchalantly milling about.

    I guess the assumption is security through obscurity, but that isn’t a thing. If the assumption is that the prosecutor just doesn’t have the bandwidth with all else that is going on probably isn’t off base. But I’d ask Patterico how that works in practice vs theory.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  230. Graph, almost all the pictures I referred to in my prior comment were of unmasked people

    Kishnevi (c8a946)

  231. Klink,

    Redstate took a stock photo of antifa for their article and then used it with current videos. Any comment on the actual article or are you just trying to pretend they said something they didn’t?

    NJRob (1e6085)

  232. !Gryph!

    Apologies.

    Did not see the auto-error until it was too late.

    Kishnevi (c8a946)

  233. Redstate took a stock photo of antifa for their article and then used it with current videos. Any comment on the actual article or are you just trying to pretend they said something they didn’t?

    Sure, it’s just them being lazy, not lying. Like there are not photos available from this week or this year.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  234. .Trump has largely thrown rhetorical Molotov cocktails over the front lines of the national uprising from the safety of his White House bunker.

    Who was it who said “their violence is speech, but our words are violence.” Describing speech with physical imagery does not make it violence. Just as describing violent physical actions as forms of communication do not make it speech.

    felipe (023cc9)

  235. 238. Don’t worry about it, Kish. I’ve been called far worse things. Mostly by Ragspierre. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  236. 236. That is dumb. Hong Kong protesters were wearing masks a year ago, long before it was cool here in that states.

    Gryph (08c844)

  237. 242 *the states

    Gryph (08c844)

  238. ‘He should just stop talking': Lawmakers say Trump’s comments worsening a bad situation
    Democratic and Republican officials said Sunday that President Donald Trump’s inflammatory tweets were unhelpful amid the weekend’s protests.

    “He should just stop talking,” Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, a Democrat, told CNN’s “State of the Union. “This is like Charlottesville all over again. He speaks and he makes it worse. There are times when you should just be quiet. And I wish that he would just be quiet.”
    ……
    “I told him what I’m going to tell you, which is, ‘Mr. President, it helps us when you focus on the death, the unjustified, the, in my opinion, criminal death of George Floyd,'” [Sen. Tim] Scott said. “‘Those tweets are very helpful.'”
    ……

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  239. 235. Facial recognition is a thing. If I were going to commit a crime, I’d sure make at least a token effort to conceal my identity.

    Gryph (08c844)

  240. 232, the looting in Chicago got cut off from downtown and is hitting the corners and the first ring-out retail centers within near suburban Cook County…I don’t think its these white guys I keep hearing about on black social media. Got so bad the Latin Kings and the 26 are assisting the police in several neighborhoods as it hits the SW side.

    urbanleftbehind (5df044)

  241. So the gangs and CPD are cooperating… Chicago ward heel politics in action!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  242. So, here’s an L.A. Times article about looting in Santa Monica.

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-31/looters-hit-santa-monica-place-mall-even-as-protesters-march-peacefully

    It’s hard to tell anything about the looters, since the article treats them pretty much as scamps, but note the description of those who object.

    It’s clear that this was an organized attack, complete with get-away drivers. What Larry Niven described as the Permanent Floating Riot Club, with cell phones taking the place of teleporters.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  243. Facial recognition is a thing. If I were going to commit a crime, I’d sure make at least a token effort to conceal my identity.

    Luckily wearing a stage-coach-robber mask in public is normal these days.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  244. Protests in London and in Berlin – and one organized in Iran.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  245. These riots have gotten way out of control, spreading to over 25 major cities across the US. From Miami to Seattle, Los Angeles to New York, Houston to Chicago, there’s been wanton destruction–vandalism, looting, arson, assault. And, no, these are not protests over police brutality, the death of one black man, or systemic racial discrimination. Nor are they urban warfare. Mob mentality has taken over.

    Multiple states have called for full deployment of the National Guard. But what’s the point of that? They’re not trained for something like this, and they do not have police powers. Neither does the US military, by the way.

    The economic wreckage caused by these riots makes any hope of a swift recovery a wet dream. There won’t be any V or W or U shaped recovery–it’ll be more like a flat line for years, as the country descends into a greater depression.

    Trump has once again proven himself incompetent, inept and impotent as a leader. Withdrawing the US from the WHO in the middle of a global pandemic? That’s just insane. Declaring Antifa a designated terrorist organization makes no sense and is ineffectual.

    His incendiary rhetoric, numerous lies and hypocritical tweets, name calling and verbal assaults, conspiracy theories and victimology, had more to do with inciting these riots than some loosely organized internet protest group.

    He’s supposed to be the President of the United States, a world leader, for crying out loud. Yet what has he accomplished? Well, he signed a tax bill that mostly benefited corporations and the wealthy, but offered little relief to the working class. He’s appointed a couple of judges. That’s about it. He’s also signed trillion-dollar/year deficit budgets, ballooned the national debt, imposed tariffs (taxes on consumers), started trade wars, alienated allies, and coddled dictators. Oh, and botched the response to a pandemic that has killed over 105,000 Americans and shut down the economy.

    Reality TV cultists elected him to tear everything down, because he loves the uneducated. This is the result.

    A nation in flames, economic ruin, amid a pandemic killing thousands a week. Businesses closed, many of which will not reopen, rising unemployment, and most importantly plunging real estate values. That’s his legacy.

    History will not be kind to this inert dwarf.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  246. In L.A. according to NBC News, the Covid-19 test centers, staffed by volunteers, were closed because of the rioting.

    I don’t think any of this will increase the number of Covid-19 cases much.

    First, the number of cases is down somewhat at this point. And in any case the odds are small – they just begin to accumulate when tens of thousands of people are in aposition to transmit the disease if they had it.

    Second, most of these people aren’t social distancing anyway, so not much is lost.

    Third, it takes place in the open air, and mostly in daylight.

    1) The outside air disperses droplets (which could mean only that it is difficult to draw a connection between the person who had it before and the person who got it, but also probably means less total exposure than indoors) and

    2) sunlight = ultraviolet light and even lower frequency light, destroys the virus. So does any temperature below about 80 degrees.

    There could be an extra case or two or three, but it would get lost in the noise.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  247. “ Reality TV cultists elected him to tear everything down, because he loves the uneducated. This is the result.”

    Blaming Trump for either the pandemic or these coordinated riots is peak tee-dee-ess.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  248. Do what the Biden campaign is doing… Bail Funds For Terrorists!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  249. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/05/daughters_of_minnesota_governor_walz_and_congresswoman_ilhan_omar_tweeting_support_and_helpful_advice_to_rioters.html

    While the media is pretending it’s some right wing element causing violence, 2 of Minnesota’s famous politician’s daughters know who is really out there causing havoc and they’re doing their part to support the cause.

    NJRob (1e6085)

  250. L.A. extends curfew amid new protests, looting in Santa Monica
    ……
    Los Angeles County officials also proclaimed a countywide state of emergency to deal with the unrest.

    “This emergency comes as we are in the midst of battling another emergency caused by the COVID-19 pandemic,” County Supervisor Kathryn Barger said Sunday in a statement. “This taxes our resources, but not our resolve.”

    The proclamation will help authorities coordinate an emergency response and mutual aid and speed up the procurement of supplies, officials said. It also provides for future state and federal reimbursement of costs the county incurs.
    ……
    The County has also imposed a County-wide curfew beginning at 8 pm.

    Honest question to Gryph and NJRob-

    If you lived in an area of the County not affected by the looting, would you still obey the curfew, even though it restricts your constitutionally guaranteed freedom of travel and association?

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  251. I’m not blaming Trump for the pandemic. I’m pointing out his ineptitude in the response to it.

    I’m not blaming Trump for the riots. I’m pointing out his impotence in the response to them.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  252. 256… that’s the Left for you, Rob.

    Any politicians who don’t condemn this in the strongest terms and – if responsible for counter measures – don’t order appropriate action should be removed from office.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  253. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 5/31/2020 @ 4:07 pm

    spreading to over 25 major cities across the US. From Miami to Seattle, Los Angeles to New York, Houston to Chicago, there’s been wanton destruction–vandalism, looting, arson, assault.

    And the fact that the same tactics are used in different cities, virtually simultaneously, that were never used before, except maybe by Antifa groups, proves it to be a conspiracy.

    Various statements along those lines are quoted by me in the does-the-voter-deserve-responsibility thread T #181, 182 AND 192 and also at 187 in this thread.

    And, no, these are not protests over police brutality, the death of one black man, or systemic racial discrimination. Nor are they urban warfare. Mob mentality has taken over.

    Mob mentality would mean it was unorganized. This was no more unorganized than the assault on the U.S. “consulate” in Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012. In St. Paul, Minnesota, there wasn’t even the cover of a protest, according to one report.

    The economic wreckage caused by these riots makes any hope of a swift recovery a wet dream. There won’t be any V or W or U shaped recovery–it’ll be more like a flat line for years, as the country descends into a greater depression.

    The reason for the low liklihood of a V or U recery is because of the loss of capital. What this adds to it is a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the entire economy.

    . Withdrawing the US from the WHO in the middle of a global pandemic? That’s just insane.

    I’m sure whatever usefl they do they;ll still do.

    Declaring Antifa a designated terrorist organization makes no sense and is ineffectual.

    He can’t. Now you can it;s engaged in terrorism, but any involvement by anyone will need to be proven. This is oe of those things Trump does for show.

    conspiracy theories

    I think we will see not on;y a conspiracy theory but a conspiracy indictment, although it might only cover a fraction of it. They should aim to cover it all.

    d to this inert dwarf.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  254. GD scum.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  255. He’s supposed to be the President of the United States, a world leader, for crying out loud.

    We’re a week into this abdication of presidential leadership. That’s after surrendering any leadership of the pandemic response to anyone else will to do his job. That’s after surrendering, you get it. He likes the idea of president, but he’s a lazy buffoon, so doing this job of president, he’s just not going to do it. Why does he even want to be re-elected?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  256. Some cities even believe they have a list of targets – which can only come from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation. The FBI probably infiltrated Antifa and has been babying this case for years.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  257. Blaming Trump for either the pandemic or these coordinated riots is peak tee-dee-ess.

    It’s very fair to blame him.

    A minimally competent President would have prepped for the pandemic (because he would assume the Chinese were lying). The lockdown would be either much less or maybe even nonexistent. The economic damage would be that much less. Which means the country’s mood would be not as bad, and all those people looting would have jobs to keep them busy.

    But Trump can’t even be minimally competent.

    Kishnevi (c23be0)

  258. We’re a week into this abdication of presidential leadership.

    More like 175 weeks into the abdication of his leadership.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  259. Ilhan Omar was on ABC’s This Week without the late David Brinkley.

    George Stephanapolous basically asked Congresswoman Ilhan Omar to explain how it could not be a conspiracy:

    STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you explain so many of the protests across the country exploded into violence over the last several days?

    We’ve seen President Trump. He’s been blaming it, he says, on far-left thugs and Antifa. There are other — the mayor of St. Paul suggested there have been outside instigators from the far right.

    What information did you have of who was joining these protests that had started out as peaceful?

    She said they were tired, blah, blah, blah.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  260. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/george-floyd-protests-minneapolis-police-fires.html

    Then you have Slate publishing an article justifying the burning down of businesses and police stations as tactically sound and that they exploit the neighborhoods they’re in.

    These are the people you want to help gain power over you? Seriously?

    NJRob (1e6085)

  261. More like 175 weeks into the abdication of his leadership.

    I was talking about this particular event, and this version of him playing surrender monkey.

    Just another instance of a reason for the 25th amendment to be exercised. He is unable to carry out the duties of the presidency.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  262. @267 I dunno Rob, are you trying to get people who run over people with their cars during alt-right protests or who murder civilians instead of arresting them into power? This is a disingenuous question. It is possible to think that the protestors have a point AND that those looting are bad actors simultaneously.

    Nic (896fdf)

  263. NJRob-

    The County has also imposed a County-wide curfew beginning at 6 pm.

    Honest question to you and Gryph-

    If you lived in an area of the County not affected by the looting, would you still obey the curfew, even though it restricts your constitutionally guaranteed freedom of travel and association?

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  264. Caleb Hull
    @CalebJHull

    NBA player JR Smith just REKT a rioter who broke his car window FireFireFire [video]

    https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1267222096813404161?s=20
    __ _

    Caleb Hull
    @CalebJHull
    ·
    Here’s JR Smith’s response:

    He says a “white boy” broke his truck window so he chased him down and “whooped his ass.”
    __ _

    Brandon Garrett
    @BatDaddyOfThree
    ·
    Why did he stop that guy from expressing his rage?!

    Riots are the voice of the unheard, remember?
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  265. Lol folks blaming Trump for lack of leadership when everything he’s done since being elected has been portrayed as criminal and/or racist.

    The double standard of reporting enabled President Obama and created President Trump.
    _

    The country is reaping was has been sowed for over a decade.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  266. It is sad to see how happy some people seem to feel about “getting even,” harkin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  267. @272 My teenage students use that excuse all the time too. “He made me (act wrong) he said (unkind thing).”

    Nic (896fdf)

  268. Nic, I was blessed to go to Austria many (too many) years ago and I completely agree with your comments on the other thread. The churches, services, and music were breathtaking.

    DRJ (15874d)

  269. I liked the church buildings in Italy more but the music in Austria was amazing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  270. As Protests and Violence Spill Over, Trump Shrinks Back
    Inside the White House, the mood was bristling with tension. Hundreds of protesters were gathering outside the gates, shouting curses at President Trump and in some cases throwing bricks and bottles. Nervous for his safety, Secret Service agents abruptly rushed the president to the underground bunker used in the past during terrorist attacks.
    …….
    …….. Mr. Trump spent Sunday out of sight, even as some of his campaign advisers were recommending that he deliver a nationally televised address before another night of possible violence. …

    But while some aides urged him to keep off Twitter while they mapped out a more considered strategy, Mr. Trump could not resist blasting out a string of messages on Sunday once again berating Democrats for not being tough enough and attributing the turmoil to radical leftists.
    ……..
    The president said his administration “will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization,” referring to the shorthand for “anti-fascist.” But antifa is a movement of activists who dress in black and call themselves anarchists, not an organization with a clear structure that can be penalized under law. Moreover, American law applies terrorist designations to foreign entities, not domestic groups.
    ……..
    …….. Privately, Mr. Trump’s advisers complained about his tweets, acknowledging that they were pouring fuel on an already incendiary situation.
    …. ….
    “What I’d like to hear from the president is leadership,” Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms of Atlanta said on “Meet the Press.” “And I would like to hear a genuine care and concern for our communities and where we are with race relations in America.”

    Some officials were urging that Mr. Trump hold events intended to show black voters enraged over the latest videotaped act of brutality that he heard their views. But others have counseled that the president should take a hard line, one that is not quite as aggressive as his tweets but that sends a message to business owners whose property has been destroyed that he is willing to defend them.
    ………
    Some in the president’s circle see the escalations as a political boon, much in the way Richard M. Nixon won the presidency on a law-and-order platform after the 1968 riots. One adviser to Mr. Trump, who insisted on anonymity to describe private conversations, said images of widespread destruction across the country could be helpful to the law-and-order message that Mr. Trump has tried to project since his 2016 campaign.
    …….
    Mr. Trump and his team seemed taken off guard by the protests that materialized outside the White House on Friday night. Hundreds of people surged toward the White House as Secret Service and United States Park Police officers sought to block them. Bricks and bottles were thrown, and the police responded with pepper spray. At one point, an official said, a barricade near the Treasury Department next door to the White House was penetrated.

    It was not clear what specifically prompted the Secret Service to whisk Mr. Trump to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, as the underground bunker is known,…….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  271. But antifa is a movement of activists who dress in black and call themselves anarchists, not an organization with a clear structure that can be penalized under law. Moreover, American law applies terrorist designations to foreign entities, not domestic groups.

    Hey if they’re NOT an organization but just bunch of people who dress in black, then they won’t have anything to worry about, will they? And gee, I thought I’ve heard the phrase “Domestic Terrorist” somewhere before. Oh, that’s right in the NYT. But funny how the WaPo and NYT seem so SAD they’re buddies in Antifa are being called “Domestic terrorists” by the DoJ. Sads.

    rcocean (846d30)

  272. Christo, Artist Who Wrapped and Festooned on an Epic Scale, Dies at 84
    Christo, the Bulgarian-born conceptual artist who turned to epic-scale environmental works in the late 1960s, stringing a giant curtain across a mountain pass in Colorado, wrapping the Pont Neuf in Paris and the Reichstag in Berlin and zigzagging thousands of saffron-curtained gates throughout Central Park, died on Sunday at his home in New York City. He was 84.
    …….
    Christo Vladimirov Javacheff was born on June 13, 1935, into a prominent family in Gabrovo, Bulgaria. He took painting and drawing lessons as a child and went on to study at the Fine Arts Academy in Sofia, the capital, while the country was under Communist control.

    One of his propaganda assignments was to advise farmers along the route of the Orient Express how to arrange their haystacks and machinery in a way that suggested bustling activity and prosperity. He later said that this experience had taught him how to work in open spaces and deal with people outside academia.

    He was studying and working at the avant-garde Burian Theater in Prague in 1956 when Soviet forces crushed the Hungarian uprising. Seeing no future in Eastern Europe, he escaped to Vienna, hiding in a freight car loaded with medical supplies.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  273. @276 St. Peter’s in Rome is gorgeous, but I’ve never had a more unfriendly church experience than going inside the Duomo in Florence, which probably colors my experience (pay to get into the entrance area. pay to get into the nave, pay to get into the ambulatory, pay to see the church objects. We took a look inside and then declined to pay to get to the rest, it wasn’t that impressive. The other Florentine churches are just as good or better.)

    Honestly, though, there are such a variety of styles of impressive churches across Europe that I can’t really say which one is better. So many of them, from the Haiga Sophia to St. Peters, to Notre Dame, to the Sagrada Familia have their good points.

    Nic (896fdf)

  274. Of course all the liberals and D’s are sad about Antifa. Lets see if Biden will denounce Trump for denouncing Antifa. After all Antifa are just harmless “activists” in black pants who “actively” seem to always be around whenever “violence breaks out”.

    Funny dat.

    They – Antifa – also seem to be involved in the “Breaking out of violence” on Trump supporters Or Free speech activists Or anyone else the left dislikes. Seems to be, as in ALWAYS.

    rcocean (846d30)

  275. Since it seems to be “cut and paste” Time:

    A former East Bay college philosophy professor who was charged with four counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon, causing great bodily injury, has taken a deal resulting in three years of probation for an attack at a Berkeley protest last year, court records reveal.

    Eric Clanton had been linked by police to violent assaults with a metal bike lock during a “free speech” rally in Berkeley on April 15, 2017. Before his arrest, Clanton had been “outed” online, on the website 4chan, as someone who used a bike lock to strike a man in the head. The assault was captured in a video clip (below) that drew widespread attention and anger after it was posted on YouTube.

    Wednesday, Clanton was supposed to have had his preliminary hearing, where a judge decides whether there’s enough evidence in a case for it to move ahead to trial. Instead, there was no hearing, and information about Clanton’s plea deal became available online.

    According to Alameda County Superior Court records, Clanton entered a “no contest” plea Wednesday to one misdemeanor battery charge. The felony charges against him were dismissed, and an allegation that he had caused serious bodily injury was stricken. A misdemeanor charge that Clanton wore a mask during the commission of the crime also was dropped.

    Ecology Center – Class 2 5/27 – 6/1

    Clanton’s three years of probation begin Wednesday and last through Aug. 8, 2021.

    Police said, previously, that Clanton attacked at least three people with a metal U-lock during the April 15 rally in and around Civic Center Park. Court papers later revealed that Clanton struck at least seven people in the head, according to authorities. One person received a head laceration that required five staples to fix. Another was uninjured but had a piece of a helmet broken off. A third was struck across the neck and back, police wrote.

    rcocean (846d30)

  276. Thanks for posting that RC, I lost track of that thug. The police were clueless and he never would have been caught but for Internet sleuths.

    IIRC he actually had ‘destruction of society’ as a goal on his college profile.

    Hopefully a nice civil suit from his victim will make his life miserable for a good long while.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  277. I loved the marble in Florence and I went at a time when they needed tourists so it was pleasant, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  278. RIP – Christo

    No word yet if at his wake he’ll be wrapped in clear plastic.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  279. But the Austrians are the masters of music.

    DRJ (15874d)

  280. @284 I was there 5ish yrs ago. The crowds weren’t terrible, esp if you timed your touristing correctly. I did really like Florence in general and most of the other churches and the view from the top of the Duomo was amazing, but I think the Duomo interior in Milan is better.

    I do like marble, but I also appreciate really good carving, stained glass, mosaics. I’d love to get to Ravenna some time. I hear they have some really well preserved mosaics. (St. Marks in Venice was Too Dark, and the mosaics in Istanbul are only partially preserved.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  281. “ It is sad to see how happy some people seem to feel about “getting even,” harkin.”

    “Getting even” is one of the primary motivators of this entire riot/looting/assault sh*t show.

    They are being told that they have no chance in life because white supremacists and western thought are holding them down. This is their chance to get a nice little slice of revenge (so what if it perpetuates the conditions they abhor?).

    It was bad enough a few decades ago when it was just moldy college profs and community communists/anarchists feeding them this tripe, now it’s everywhere.

    harkin (9c4571)

  282. Pat,

    Since your reaction to Rags vs Gryph was apparently informed somewhat by feedback from others, here’s my 2c in defense of Gryph. Rags, with whom I agree close to 100%, is overtly belligerent to many with whom he disagrees. Toward Gryph he turns it up to eleven. Gryph, with whom I disagree almost 100%, may not be quite the model of civility, but considering the depth of hostility he’s taken from Rags, I’d say he’s been admirably restrained.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  283. History will not be kind to this inert dwarf.

    I love how, whatever happens, it gets laid at Trump’s doorstep. You do realize you’re predictable there?

    History will not be kind to this whole fukking ruling class that failed so utterly terribly that TRUMP seemed like a better choice than anyone they put up. And this time around, all they have is a dead man, and TRUMP may still seem like the better choice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  284. Watching these peaceful protests pre-riot prep pep gatherings, I note no precautions being taken to mitigate the Wuhancoronavirus. Where’s teh outrage?!?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  285. https://twitter.com/P0kes/status/1267230163521191936

    The Cincinnati police pulled down the American flag at the justice center and replaced it with the thin blue line. Infuriating. Picture from a friend.

    lol

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  286. Good– the safety farce is now over, minimum condition for any federal restorative actions…CV19 lockdowns and mask requirements end NOW.

    urbanleftbehind (5df044)

  287. “I note no precautions being taken to mitigate the Wuhancoronavirus.”

    Really? You don’t see any masks?

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  288. Reality TV cultists elected him to tear everything down, because he loves the uneducated. This is the result

    You might stop and reflect why so many people thought the system NEEDED tearing down. If you think it was because they were uneducated and were ordered to do it by radios in their teeth, you really need to think some more.

    Some people may react to years of the sh1t end of the stick by burning and/or looting, but here the non-college-bound whites who were really tired of no-jobs-for-them decided to kick over the table. That YOU were feeding so fine off that table did not give them discomfort.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  289. Really? You don’t see any masks?

    Gloves, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  290. Here’s a good thread.

    To simplify following the criminal justice news of the last 36 hours, I posted a set of 10 links to police brutality videos on Facebook

    Can’t do that here, obvs

    So I’m putting them into a thread

    https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847

    Over 60 examples of mostly police violence so far.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  291. A nation in flames, economic ruin, amid a pandemic killing thousands a week. Businesses closed, many of which will not reopen, rising unemployment, and most importantly plunging real estate values.

    Things I learned today:

    If Hillary had won, there would be no Coronavirus.
    If Hillary had won, there would be no lockdown,
    If Hillary had won, there would be no anger among blacks.
    If Hillary had won, there would be no cops beating down/killing black folk.
    If Hillary had won, there would be rising stock prices forever.
    If Hillary had won, there would be rising real estate values forever.*

    Things I already knew:
    If Hillary had won, there would be 7 socialists on the Supreme Court.
    If Hillary had won, only criminals would have guns. And cops, but that would be redundant.
    If Hillary had won, there would be no complaints about her receiving huge foreign tips donations to her retirement account Foundation.
    If Hillary had won, there would be no Patterico’s Pontifications, as he would not blog if he had to clear it with the FEC (he’s said so).
    If Hillary had won, there would be no hate speech. Or anything the SPLC called hate speech.

    Damn that Trump.
    ————-

    * Show me where housing prices are declining where they were not declining last year, or 2016.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  292. No, I don’t tally snot rags and chain mail as precautionary. Definitely not social distancing.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  293. In the last week, I have heard 5 people wonder why house prices are not declining. The answer is obvious: The people doing almost all of the suffering are hourly workers who don’t get paid if they don’t work and generally cannot work from home. Product designers, attorneys and college professors are doing just fine, thank you.

    Guess which group buys houses and which doesn’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  294. Over 60 examples of mostly police violence so far.

    You could get 10 times that just yesterday if the news media cared to make an issue out of it. But the Dog Trainer cannot even say “African-American” when describing rioters, but CAN say “white” when talking about horrified bystanders.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  295. You could get 10 times that *in looting, rioting and general mayhem* just yesterday if the news media cared to make an issue out of it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  296. 252… with “plunging real estate values” and mortgage defaults, don’t you go into your “calling the sheriff to evict unfortunate people” mode?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  297. There were 60 examples of ‘turning the other cheek‘ alone just in that CNN stairwell as cops resisted retaliation while being pelted by rocks/bottles/fireworks.

    harkin (9c4571)

  298. “There were 60 examples of ‘turning the other cheek‘ alone just in that CNN stairwell as cops resisted retaliation while being pelted by rocks/bottles/fireworks.”

    You don’t get credit for doing the minimum required by your job.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  299. “ Watching these peaceful protests pre-riot prep pep gatherings, I note no precautions being taken to mitigate the Wuhancoronavirus. Where’s teh outrage?!?!?!”
    __

    Depends on who’s doing the gathering:

    Mayor Bill de Blasio
    @NYCMayor

    My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed. I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period.
    __ _

    Mayor Bill de Blasio
    @NYCMayor
    ·
    Our police officers have been given a very clear instruction: as always, respect peaceful protest. We in this city have a long history of respecting every kind of viewpoint, that is the essence of New York City.
    _

    I guess the time for stopping disease and saving lives is over.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  300. “ You don’t get credit for doing the minimum required by your job.”

    It can get pretty frustrating when only one side has a minimum. Every cop and National Guardsman has their hands full this week. If we can call essential workers heroes for doing their jobs we can at least extend the same courtesy to those dealing with a pandemic during a riot.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  301. Btw – go throw a bottle at a cop and let me know if the minimum changes.

    harkin (9c4571)

  302. @298 Every statement you posted is untruthful, even the ones you “knew”. Trump won by such a tiny margin that even if Hillary had won the house and senate still would have been R controlled.

    Nic (896fdf)

  303. @298-
    Wow. Who made those statements? Couldn’t find them here.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  304. More police violence:

    LAPD using rubber bullets against rioters throwing bottles at fireman trying to contain blaze at Japanese restaurant.

    harkin (9c4571)

  305. “It can get pretty frustrating when only one side has a minimum.”

    Reminder that this started because one side kneeled on a man’s neck until he died, and then broke up the initial peaceful protest with tear gas.

    “Btw – go throw a bottle at a cop and let me know if the minimum changes.”

    Feel free to watch the videos, it’s mostly people not throwing bottles at cops being deliberately targeted.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  306. “More police violence:

    LAPD using rubber bullets against rioters throwing bottles at fireman trying to contain blaze at Japanese restaurant.”

    You’re being dishonest. See my previous comment.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  307. It’s odd that while looter gangs invaded Beverly Hills and Santa Monica, they stayed out of Culver City, the other major independent city in the area. Then again, Culver City has a rep, and they weren’t involved in 1992 either, despite being on the border of what burned. Something about cops 4 to a car with shotguns.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  308. Feel free to watch the videos, it’s mostly people not throwing bottles at cops being deliberately targeted.

    I am fast losing any respect I had for you, Mr. Davethulhu. Today, I was five seconds ahead of the looting of North Riverside Mall, a third-ring (technically) suburb of Chicago, including my favorite grocery stores, and the burning down of an Olive Garden restaurant. A freaking Olive Garden restaurant!!11! They’re animals, Mr. Davethulhu. This is not about George Floyd, if it ever was. It’s animals running wild.

    nk (1d9030)

  309. Wow. Who made those statements? Couldn’t find them here.

    Gwain blamed all those things on Trump, so if Hillary had won, all those things that are Trump’s fault would not have happened. How is this hard to follow?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  310. By mid-afternoon, all of these have mostly stopped being about any protest. By 10PM there’s zero protesters, 100% rioters, in some places that includes the police.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  311. Biden stepped in it last week with, “if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black”, but his (or his speechwriter’s) piece in The Medium struck the right tone.

    These last few days have laid bare that we are a nation furious at injustice. Every person of conscience can understand the rawness of the trauma people of color experience in this country, from the daily indignities to the extreme violence, like the horrific killing of George Floyd.
    Protesting such brutality is right and necessary. It’s an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.
    The act of protesting should never be allowed to overshadow the reason we protest. It should not drive people away from the just cause that protest is meant to advance.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  312. This is not about George Floyd, if it ever was. It’s animals running wild.

    In Santa Monica is was far more controlled. Some cars and vans arrived at the rich folk’s mall, which was closed. They broke in and emptied stores like Louis Vuitton and the high-end shoe stores, dropped everything in carts they had brought than scrammed back to Compton.

    Mostly broken glass.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  313. “if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t a Communist.”

    –What he really meant.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  314. We don’t know what we’d have had with Hillary. We see what we have with Trump. Is it great? Do you want to keep it? Well, do you … Kevin?

    nk (1d9030)

  315. Feel free to watch the videos, it’s mostly people not throwing bottles at cops being deliberately targeted.

    Actually, this is dishonest.

    The common denominator in most all of these videos is someone not following police instructions. Yes, you will be targeted if you disregard instructions that are usually there for their safety. It’s not targeting for no reason, as is implied. What do you expect?

    beer ‘n pretzels (f9bfed)

  316. Anti-Trump Republican group attacks Trump on race in new ad
    The anti-Trump Republican group, The Lincoln Project, is planning to air a new attack ad blasting President Donald Trump’s record on race relations in the US.

    The TV spot, backed by a $500,000 ad buy, will air in the key battleground states of Florida, Wisconsin and Michigan as well as in Washington, DC. The ad, entitled “Flag of Treason,” targets the support Trump has received from white nationalist groups.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  317. @320 And all the Trump supporters are Fascists and far far too many otherwise intelligent people are actually tribalist idiots.

    Nic (896fdf)

  318. “We appreciate and respect all peaceful protests, but now it is time for people to go home,” de Blasio said at a press conference at 11:30 p.m. at the NYC Emergency Management headquarters in Downtown Brooklyn.“
    __ _

    Good thinking Mr. Mayor but a bit late, your daughter got arrested blocking traffic at 10:30.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/31/mayor-de-blasios-daughter-chiara-arrested-at-manhattan-protest/

    harkin (9c4571)

  319. 298,

    If Hillary had won, there would be no Coronavirus.

    Because of the butterfly effect.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  320. “ The anti-Trump Republican group, The Lincoln Project, is planning to air a new attack ad blasting President Donald Trump’s record on race relations in the US.”

    Republicans actively working for the party of ANTIFA and the man who told blacks Mitt Romney wanted them back in chains, that ought to calm things down.

    Oh btw:

    “The Lincoln Project reported spending nearly $1.4 million through March. Almost all of that money went to the group’s board members and firms run by them. The super PAC spent nearly $1 million with Summit Strategic Communications, a firm run by Lincoln Project treasurer Reed Galen. Another $215,000 went to Tusk Digital, a company run by Lincoln Project adviser Ron Steslow.“

    https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/05/lincoln-project-capitalizes-on-trump-rage/
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  321. “The common denominator in most all of these videos is someone not following police instructions. Yes, you will be targeted if you disregard instructions that are usually there for their safety. It’s not targeting for no reason, as is implied. What do you expect?”

    I don’t think you watched most of the videos, but let’s examine the first 10.

    1. Mounted officer tramples someone. No instructions given.
    2. Officer shoves a lady into the curb. No instructions given.
    3. Officer opens a door to strike someone as his car drives by. No instructions given.
    4 and 5. Officers clubbing some people. We don’t see the leadup, so it’s possible that instructions were given, however this seems excessive as these aren’t rioters.
    6. Officer pepper sprays someone. No instructions given.
    7. Officer in a car pepper sprays random people as he drives by. No instructions given.
    8-9. Officers throwing flash-bangs into a crowd. This is the first day of the protest, which was peaceful.
    10. This was widely reported, officers arresting a member of the press. Regardless of how you feel about the press, they have a right to report on these things.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  322. “if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t a Communist.”

    The problem I have is all the hyperbole. The irony here is that, as French noted, “Biden beat a socialist in the Democratic primary in part by running against socialism.” I’m really not getting the alarmism about Biden is moving the US to a socialist state. It won’t happen. This isn’t a Flight 93 election. To me, it’ll be an election about character.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  323. Record Ratings and Record Chaos on Cable News
    Last week, Fox News’s anchors competed for President Trump’s ear about the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. Tucker Carlson denounced the unrest as “riots.” Sean Hannity unexpectedly took a civil rights angle, speaking “as a person that has now been trained in mixed martial arts for seven straight years” to cast doubt on Officer Derek Chauvin’s actions.

    In the midnight hour on Friday, a rerun of Mr. Carlson show appears to have grabbed hold of the president’s brainstem, as Mr. Carlson intoned that “rioters are continuing to destroy one of this country’s great cities, unimpeded.” A little after 12:50 a.m., the show panned to a Minneapolis in flames, and at 12:53 a.m., Mr. Trump tweeted that he “can’t stand back & watch this happen.” He concluded, echoing an utterance in 1967 from a bigoted Miami police chief, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
    ……..
    ……..Fox News, by far the most-watched American news channel but one that has been in a rolling corporate crisis since its founder, Roger Ailes, was forced to resign amid sexual harassment allegations almost four years ago. Fox News now occupies a strange position in a shrunken Fox Corporation, whose chairman, Lachlan Murdoch, has sought to pull off an acrobatic feat: collect the abundant profits from the channel while skirting the blame for its missteps in the early days of the pandemic.
    …..
    Fox shifted over the weekend into round-the-clock protest coverage. But Mr. Shah’s new team suggests that the criticism of its coronavirus coverage has stung hosts and alienated advertisers. …….
    ……..
    MSNBC has been scrambling in a different way. The channel thrived from 2017 until earlier this year, lifted by its nonstop coverage of the Trump-Russia story and the story’s denouement in impeachment. It signed up former spies and prosecutors as contributors, and dangled the hope that Robert Mueller would end Mr. Trump’s presidency. But the Russia show came to a disappointing conclusion for its audience with Mr. Trump’s acquittal on Feb. 5, and ratings plummeted.
    ……..
    MSNBC’s audience numbers did rebound with the coronavirus story, but the network’s DNA is politics, and Covid-19 is not at its heart a political story. ……
    …….
    CNN once positioned itself between MSNBC and Fox on the political spectrum. But during Mr. Trump’s tenure, the network concluded that there was no profitable middle ground with a president who seeks confrontation with the media. The channel adopted an increasingly political focus, hosting dozens of Democratic primary town halls and debates.
    ……..
    CNN was ready, flexing its still-supple muscles for covering all-consuming news stories. Now it focuses primarily on the coronavirus, interlaced with impassioned and often viral monologues denouncing President Trump.
    …….
    [Jeff Zucker] has been telling his staff for months that the pandemic is the central story, and he told me he anticipated it to dominate the rest of the year.

    “Between now and November, there’s no chance it’s a normal political year,” he said in a telephone interview on Thursday. “That’s just not conceivable between now and the end of the year.”
    …….
    Lurking in the background for all the networks, though, is the question: How long can this last? Cable news appeared, like much of linear television, to be in terminal decline before Donald Trump turned it into the greatest, most terrifying show on earth.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  324. The news media is for entertainment purposes only. Watch it if you enjoy it, but don’t expect to be more than casually informed by it, and don’t be surprised when you find you were misinformed. It’s no more real than “Pirates Of The Caribbean”. Fiction based on some remote fragment of actual fact.

    nk (1d9030)

  325. In Cincinnati the main problem is riot tourism, since there really isn’t a riot. People driving into town to watch the protests.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  326. 267. NJRob (1e6085) — 5/31/2020 @ 4:47 pm

    Then you have Slate publishing an article justifying the burning down of businesses and police stations as tactically sound and that they exploit the neighborhoods they’re in.

    That’s only part of it, and not the main art.

    He is against police, in general:

    For about a decade, I’ve been reporting on police violence in the United States—or rather, I’ve been reporting on the violence of policing, because what I’ve witnessed is that policing is always violent. The order the police protect and sustain is an order in which needed resources remain in the hands of the few. Whether or not they are actually killing or beating somebody, police are always threatening the use of lethal violence (mostly at the poor, disproportionately at Black and other nonwhite people), and that is a form of violence itself.

    According to him, policing is violent even when it is not violent, although it is violent in the more common sense too, because it rests on lethal force or the threat of it, but in any case it is violent, because it keeps people poor by preventing people from stealing, because a lot many more things should be held in common, first come first serve, not just air and fish in the water.

    Occupy Wall Street activists deserve credit for helping Americans to see that the real looting is happening with wealth transfers towards the ruling class, and endured police intimidation and abuse to do it. Clearly such work is getting more people to challenge the premises of policing more seriously.

    But the pandemic has also given many more Americans a chance to see which parts of the status quo are really protected in a crisis, and what policing means for them. When gun-waving protesters swarm legislatures, demanding that public health orders be lifted so people can be sent back to work, what gives them the space to shout down the majority? Policing. When eviction courts reopen and many of the 40 million people out of work are evicted, how will that be carried out? Policing.

    He is somewhat incoherent. He wants everyone to join the lockdown. Or maybe it is to be compensated:

    c. Health, space, income, race, and the ability to stay away from person-to-person job duties have produced enormous disparities in the impact of the coronavirus. Wall Street has been made so whole it is soaring while renters—prevented from working— have been largely left out to dry.

    Is it that renters have been forced to work in person, and therefore get sick, or is it that they have been prevented from working?

    I think he wants everyone to have the option of staying home and not losing any income, and somehow blames the police for that not happening.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  327. “I’m really not getting the alarmism about Biden is moving the US to a socialist state. It won’t happen. This isn’t a Flight 93 election. To me, it’ll be an election about character.”

    Every Democratic candidate is the most socialist every, until the next candidate comes along. There are people on this forum who believe that Obama is a literal Marxist, and yet Biden will be the one who turns America into a communist nation.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  328. We don’t know what we’d have had with Hillary. We see what we have with Trump. Is it great? Do you want to keep it? Well, do you … Kevin?

    That is not the question at hand. It is “Do I want to replace this clown with a different clown who has signed on to a radical left agenda?”

    I’ll stay with the frying pan, thank you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  329. “ Cable news appeared, like much of linear television, to be in terminal decline before Donald Trump turned it into the greatest, most terrifying show on earth.”

    Democrats turned Minneapolis and other urban areas into what they are right now.

    The mainstream media is trying to figure out how to make this terrifying show the fault of Trump, Republicans and other conservatives.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  330. Breaking911
    @Breaking911

    “TAKE HIS A$$!! – Rioter causing damage is detained & handed over to police by peaceful protesters in D.C.

    https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1267249136937689089?s=20
    __ _

    GregGutfeld
    @greggutfeld
    ·
    perfect world: BLM destroys antifa.
    and we all help them.

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  331. Trump is the literal Marxist. He thinks he’s Zeppo, but he tries to come across as Groucho and ends up as Chico, when he’d be better off as Harpo.

    nk (1d9030)

  332. I’m going to double down on linking to French and the importance of character in our leadership, because that’s what’s needed while many people are peacefully protesting and while other people are committing violent acts.

    I know that I go back again and again to the importance of character in leaders. But character holds the center. The irony of the first stanza of Yeats’s poem is that if a man or woman lacks all conviction, he cannot be “the best.” Time and again we’ve seen good people crumble before the bully. We find that “the best” do indeed lack conviction. They are not who we thought they were.

    And of all people, a person who displayed immense character was a rapper named Killer Mike.
    And where is Trump? Hiding in a White House bunker, writing angry messages on his tweety phone, providing zero leadership, and illegally designating the Antifa boogeyman as a “domestic terrorist organization”.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  333. Shoot, that maximum of four links per comment tripped me up again.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  334. Every Democratic candidate is the most socialist every, until the next candidate comes along.

    And whose fault is that? Every candidate they’ve put up has been further to the left than the last. Even Hillary was talking about 70% marginal tax rates.

    Biden supports:

    Eliminating speical treatment of capital gains. This has been done, well, never in the US. We already have a higher capital gains tax than anyone worth mentioning. He wants to double it.

    Eliminating the cap on Social Security taxes, which have always been there because the payout was capped. This turns Social Security into a welfare program instead of a pseudo old-age pension account. Rather than reform the system, the Democrats intend to soak the rich. What will happen is a lot of people will retire instead of working for the State.

    He calls for a national prohibition on fracking and eventually outlawing internal combustion vehicles. He has signed on to the New Green Deal, which is kind of like the Covid-19 shutdown forever. But don’t worry, good green jobs are just around the corner.

    His party calls for abolishing the immigration service and making citizens of all the illegals. DO you really believe he won’t go along?

    His Supreme Court nominees will overturn rulings like Citizens United, allowing the government to dictate time, place and content of political speech, and Heller, followed by the gun roundup that Biden has already said he favors and would put a notorious gun grabber in charge of.

    But heck, what is that compared to some embarrassment with one’s president?

    —————

    Find. Me. Another. Choice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  335. The mainstream media is trying to figure out how to make this terrifying show the fault of Trump, Republicans and other conservatives.

    The MSM has already figured that out. The violence, burning, and looting? Not done by Antifa. Instead, its all being done by mysterious “White Supremacists” financed by “Russians”.

    rcocean (846d30)

  336. The MSM has already figured that out. The violence, burning, and looting? Not done by Antifa. Instead, its all being done by mysterious “White Supremacists” financed by “Russians”.

    Please link to a mainstream media person saying this.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  337. Good to know the Cornavirus doesn’t matter when protesting “racism”.

    Priorities.

    rcocean (846d30)

  338. he’d be better off as Harpo.

    He’d be better off as Bozo. But still, what’s your point? You don’t like the man, fine. I don’t like him either. I may like him less than your do. But I’m voting for a raft of policies and the Supreme Court in the center square to block. Biden PROMISES to WORK HARD to screw everything I believe in. So long as the Democrat Party persists down it’s insane path, I’m going to choose the other side.

    As I said before: Trump is temporary. He might not live to Tuesday. But you give the State power and you NEVER EVER get it back, and the Democrats are all about the State being supreme. Biden is just their puppet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  339. Can’t count on Trump to do anything productive but he should be on nationwide right now telling protesters to resist being made chumps by Antifa agitators who seek to foment a race war by destroying their communities.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  340. BTW, the Lastest David French column is a complete embarrassment. After praising Michelle Goldberg as a “brilliant centrist” Mr. French tells us “The Center isn’t holding” because we have the left on one side burning, looting, and destroying while Trump – ON THE RIGHT – is tweeting mean things.

    Both sides are wrong. LOL! And Mr. French is sad. But not really about all the crime, destruction, looting, and burning by BLM and Antifa. No, its that Trump is STILL President.

    Pathetic this man EVER claimed to be a Conservative. He can’t even criticize Antifa without saying Trump is “just as bad”!

    rcocean (846d30)

  341. BTW, the doubling of the capital gains tax, coupled with the likely removal of the $500,000 home-sale exclusion, would devastate the middle class. People who have lived in their house for 40 years, paid it off and expect it to fund their retirement may be in for a bit of a shock when the IRS wants half.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  342. Personally, I vote for Presidents based on whether I want to have tea and crumpets with them. And whether they can select the right wine for an after dinner Apéritif.

    Policies don’t matter at all.

    rcocean (846d30)

  343. The secret to a working political system is to have a structure that forces scoundrels to do the right thing. Even Machine-ruled Chicago provided the services people asked for, minus a bit of graft.

    If you predicate your political system on only getting moral rulers, you are going to be in for a shock. Much like Captain Renault at Rick’s.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  344. While Burning down the President’s church in DC (built in 1814) is important – it can’t hold a candle to a theoretical discussion about a capital gains tax adjustment that will never happen.

    Tell us more.

    rcocean (846d30)

  345. The only Presidents in my lifetime that I would like to have a beer with would have been Bill Clinton and W. I would have loved to spend time discussing the world with Nixon though, but he was really not a lot of laughs otherwise.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  346. But heck, what is that compared to some embarrassment with one’s president?

    And the only thing Biden could actually accomplish is judges, assuming he has a Dem majority in the Senate. The rest of his proposals would be stymied in the Senate.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  347. a capital gains tax adjustment that will never happen.

    Why not? You expect a filibuster?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  348. BTW, since we’re talking theoreticals. If Antifa leveled the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials tomorrow, would anyone care? Or destroyed St. Patricks. I’m beginning to think not. Also, this country is finished. You can’t have a country where only 50% are patriotic and the other 50% are just for their ethnic group and the Left.

    rcocean (846d30)

  349. The filibuster will die on Jan 5th, 2021 if Biden is the President-elect.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  350. There are people on this forum who believe that Obama is a literal Marxist, and yet Biden will be the one who turns America into a communist nation.

    LOL! Statements like this can only mean nothing you say can taken seriously. Comedy gold!

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  351. I think the American bourgeois is so liberal and so rich and stupid, they won’t do anything to stop their own destruction. No doubt many of them, are already looking at real estate in Ireland or Australia. They don’t have the brains or the guts to fight – but will run away.

    And with that, I bid you Good Night.

    rcocean (846d30)

  352. The filibuster will die on Jan 5th, 2021 if Biden is the President-elect.
    Since Biden has no say over Senate rules, it would require a Democratic Senate majority. Also, McConnell should have done it sooner.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  353. But I get it. A LOT of erstwhile Republicans, their knickers in a twist over that nasty Trump and his poor spelling in his tweets, are telling themselves that they don’t have to worry about Biden — the Senate will save them.

    They said the same damn thing about Obamacare, and it passed even after they lost their 60 vote majority. Then they said “The Supreme Court will save us!” But that failed too.

    RUN A BETTER CANDIDATE but this hand-wringing and sophistry isn’t very convincing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  354. @328: Ridiculous. You’re expecting explicit instructions, where none are necessary. Most people have a pretty good idea of what the police want you to do, even if it’s not explicitly spelled out.

    1. Mounted officer tramples someone. No instructions given.
    Best not to walk up to mounted police, when they are already being crowded by unfriendlies. Most don’t need to be told this. In any case, seriously this didn’t look intentional.

    2. Officer shoves a lady into the curb. No instructions given.
    The video literally starts at that moment. You cannot possibly know what led up to it. Again, police don’t need to explain beforehand that you should keep your distance. Didn’t look like she did.

    3. Officer opens a door to strike someone as his car drives by. No instructions given.
    Yes, I’ll bet he didn’t know he’s not supposed to run up and make contact with a moving police car in a belligerent manner.. He needed instructions.

    4 and 5. Officers clubbing some people. We don’t see the leadup, so it’s possible that instructions were given, however this seems excessive as these aren’t rioters.
    As you mention, there’s no context. There are, however, plenty of individuals not being clubbed. I’m guessing those others just got really lucky, had the right hair color, or they probably didn’t do something the police didn’t want them to do. You choose.

    6. Officer pepper sprays someone. No instructions given.
    Most don’t need to be instructed to avoid literally getting in the face of a cop. Maybe you do. She certainly did.

    7~10 don’t look like the videos you describe. I see a patrol car getting surrounded by a group of hostiles. A bike officer not being given space by the hostiles around him. Again, are you expecting explicit instructions?

    Unless I need help, or are offering it, I don’t bother the police and I give them a wide berth. Are there different instructions I should know about?

    beer ‘n pretzels (efe0ef)

  355. And whether they can select the right wine for an after dinner Apéritif.

    Vous, Les Américains, avez des truffes à la place du cerveau.

    Any civilized person knows an apéritif is consumed before the meal, not after.

    You’re talking about a digestif.

    Mon dieu.

    Dave (1bb933)

  356. it would require a Democratic Senate majority.

    There is no way that the GOP holds the Senate if Trump loses. They may not hold it even if Trump wins. The GOP is defending 23 seats, the Dems only 12. The Dems need 4 seats. At this point the Dems are +3 seats in the polls with 3 tossups and two weak seats in GA. Any movement towards the Dems and the GOP majority is a goner.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  357. Yada yada yada, run a better candidate.

    The office is currently vacant, where there’s supposed to be a president, we have a 13 year old with a twitter account, but no president. Today, now there’s only one person running for president, and he’s a senile old man.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  358. The GOP could lose 9 seats in 2020 without major upsets.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  359. Baseless assumptions and presuppositions, unfounded hopes, and chimerical fears.

    nk (1d9030)

  360. @340

    Why is it that when I actually go to work and earn money my income should be taxed more than the guy who sits at home and sells his stock? I’m so sad that man who sits on his butt might have to pay the same taxes I do.

    I don’t understand the “well, they’ll just quit working” logic. Guy makes and extra .3 mill above his normal income. Right now he keeps .2ish of it. Post Biden he might or might not (congress exists) keep .1 of it. Why would he suddenly just throw up his hands and give up his extra 100,000 in disgust? IDK, that 100,000 extra is more money that I’m likely to ever see in a year in gross, much less net, so maybe I have trouble figuring out the calculations of people who see more money in 3 years that I’ll net in my entire life. Or maybe it’s time for them to go home and give that chance to someone hungrier than they are.

    There will still be internal combustion vehicles available for the rest of your driving life. However, they aren’t going to be manufactured forever and we already have the technology to significantly reduce the amount of oil and gas that we use in cars. My guess is that internal combustion won’t be economically feasible within my driving lifetime even if we do nothing. Heck, you can’t even find a stick shift any more, so it’s not like my next car is going to be interesting anyway, might as well be hybrid or hydro.

    The immigration one is just not even the truth.

    The court is not going to flip. RBG is the next up and she’s already a liberal.

    I can’t find you another choice. 1. We have the choices we have. and 2. Even if the was one, you’d just believe random untrue and/or illogical things about their possible future administrations as well.

    Nic (896fdf)

  361. The office is currently vacant, where there’s supposed to be a president, we have a 13 year old with a twitter account, but no president. Today, now there’s only one person running for president, and he’s a senile old man.

    That 13-yo at least has no grand scheme to screw us. Trump is tactical and self-centered, which beats the doors off of strategic and hostile. I *would* like someone in that office who was neither of those things, preferably competent and centrist. I still await the Messiah, but until he shows up I will go with Tiberius.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  362. “Ridiculous. You’re expecting explicit instructions, where none are necessary. ”

    Keep moving those goalposts.

    I’m not going to line-by-line your responses, but your default stance appears to be that the police deserve instant, unquestioning obedience, or you face arbitrary physical assault. There’s a word for this, but I’m already on thin ice today, so I’ll just say that I don’t agree with you.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  363. That 13-yo at least has no grand scheme to screw us.

    He’s doing just fine on that score without one.

    Dave (1bb933)

  364. @365-
    McConnell should have repealed the filibuster when the Republicans controlled both houses-like Trump wanted.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  365. The immigration one is just not even the truth.

    The whole drive of the Democrat Party for the last, well forever, has been “a path to citizenship” for all the illegals and a lightning path for some. Perhaps you missed that. Several candidates, who are now dictating Biden’s policies, have called for the INS to be scrapped.

    Maybe you think they are just posturing?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  366. “The whole drive of the Democrat Party for the last, well forever, has been “a path to citizenship” for all the illegals and a lightning path for some. Perhaps you missed that. Several candidates, who are now dictating Biden’s policies, have called for the INS to be scrapped.”

    The drive of the Republican Party is to keep them as second class citizens in order to suppress wages.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  367. That 13-yo at least has no grand scheme to screw us. Trump is tactical and self-centered, which beats the doors off of strategic and hostile. I *would* like someone in that office who was neither of those things, preferably competent and centrist. I still await the Messiah, but until he shows up I will go with Tiberius.

    With that sentiment, you see no value in the presidency. Carter, Clinton, Obama, all had super-majorities and this didn’t become a marxist state, Biden’s not going to do it either.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  368. Why is it that when I actually go to work and earn money my income should be taxed more than the guy who sits at home and sells his stock?

    Because that stock purchase gave you your job, one way or another. A better question is why should the government discourage investment by taxing it? Many countries do not, and some that do have all kinds of loopholes. Since 1960, the US capital gains tax has never been more than 35% and generally about half the top earned income rate.

    Maybe the lower rate is saying that you, too should invest instead of buying a third flatsceen, or going to Maui.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  369. Carter, Clinton, Obama, all had super-majorities and this didn’t become a marxist state

    No? I guess you never experienced the raw hell of Obamacare.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  370. The drive of the Republican Party is to keep them as second class citizens in order to suppress wages.

    You’re being kind. It is to keep them illegal and in the shadows so the second class citizens will have somebody to look down on and resent instead of looking up.

    nk (1d9030)

  371. McConnell should have repealed the filibuster when the Republicans controlled both houses-like Trump wanted.

    Why? The GOP couldn’t even get a GOP bill transforming Obamacare into a proto-Medicare-reform bill through the GOP-controlled House.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  372. The drive of the Republican Party is to keep them as second class citizens in order to suppress wages.

    The drive of Trump’s supporters is to send them home. Talk to a non-Spanish-speaking carpenter in SoCal. Oh, wait, there aren’t any.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  373. your default stance appears to be that the police deserve instant, unquestioning obedience, or you face arbitrary physical assault.

    That’s actually pretty close to what I tell my kids. What do you tell yours?

    I even like the word “arbitrary” here. You cannot assume how another human being will act. That’s true for police as well as protesters. Live to fight another day, by more effective means. But, as evidenced by many of these videos, the goal of some protesters (and some bad cops) is precisely to provoke an arbitrary violent response.

    beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7)

  374. @349 strictly speaking, an aperitif is before dinner. The appropriate after dinner drink is a digestif and is usually a liqueur rather than a wine (and I don’t even drink 😛 ). Also, tea and crumpets are good, esp on a rainy or cold day. I don’t subscribe to reverse-snobbery either.

    @365 And whose fault is that?

    @372 Nah, I didn’t miss it, I just paid attention to what it means. A path to citizenship is not unilaterally legalizing and granting citizenship to everyone who came to the US illegally. And I suspect the entire issue could be solved for at least the next 20 years (which is about as long as anyone can solve anything in government) by figuring out what to do with people who were brought to this country as minors by their parents and raised here to be Americans.

    @375 Everything purchased gives us our jobs, that’s how economics works. And I put roughly 10% of my net into long-term investments every year. I still think they should be taxed on level with other income.

    Nic (896fdf)

  375. The White House goes dark as fires rage nearby.
    The police fired tear gas near the White House on Sunday night to dissuade protesters who had smashed the windows of prominent buildings, overturned cars and set fires, with smoke seen rising from near the Washington Monument.

    The White House went dark, turning off almost all of its external lights, as protesters seethed in dozens of cities, again defying curfews to demonstrate against police brutality following the death of George Floyd in police custody.
    ……
    WaPo: Protesters clash with police outside White House, with fire set at St. John’s Church
    ……..
    Then came darkness and with it, another night of mayhem. American flags and parked cars and buildings were lit ablaze — including St. John’s Church, a historic landmark opened in 1816 and attended by every president since James Madison. Firefighters quickly extinguished the basement fire, which police was intentionally set.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  376. Michigan Sheriff puts down his baton and helmet and walks with the protesters.

    DRJ (15874d)

  377. “I even like the word “arbitrary” here. You cannot assume how another human being will act. That’s true for police as well as protesters. ”

    No it’s not. Police theoretically have a standard of behavior that they should adhere to. The fact that they don’t is the reason for these protests.

    “Live to fight another day, by more effective means. But, as evidenced by many of these videos, the goal of some protesters (and some bad cops) is precisely to provoke an arbitrary violent response.”

    If the officer can’t control themselves and de-escalate, they shouldn’t be an officer.

    “bad cops”

    If good cops don’t reign in bad cops, there are no good cops.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  378. “The drive of Trump’s supporters is to send them home.”

    Well, don’t worry, the Republicans will lie and say that’s their drive as well.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  379. Politicians and DA’s and “good cops” that don’t do anything to punish bad cops are complicit.

    kaf (6cbb44)

  380. rcocean (846d30) — 5/31/2020 @ 8:35 pm

    It seems that if you’re predisposed to disagree with all things French, then you’re also predisposed to grossly misread everything he said, starting with the bogus scare quote that Ms. Goldberg is a “brilliant centrist”.
    Disappointing.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  381. Kevin,

    Fantastic job explaining your ideas what the upcoming obstacles in November. Thank you.

    NJRob (1e6085)

  382. Personally, I vote for Presidents based on whether I want to have tea and crumpets with them. And whether they can select the right wine for an after dinner Apéritif.

    Policies don’t matter at all.

    rcocean (846d30) — 5/31/2020 @ 8:38 pm

    T. Coddington Voorhees approves.

    NJRob (1e6085)

  383. Davethulhu,

    What are you feelings on antifa?

    NJRob (1e6085)

  384. Lincoln Memorial and World War II Memorial vandalized in DC.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  385. No it’s not. Police theoretically have a standard of behavior that they should adhere to. The fact that they don’t is the reason for these protests.

    If so, then they’re essentially protesting that cops aren’t robots.

    Here’s a pretty good rule. If you don’t do what a cop expects you to do, either by explicit instruction or basic common sense, and he feels threatened (legitimately or not), the cop may not care if what he does to you fails to follow a standard of behavior. It’s arbitrary. That has nothing to do with whether he should or not. It has everything to do with the cop being human and preferring to face justice than be dead, or maybe being a bad human or a marginal human. I prefer not to roll the dice.

    Maybe you and the protesters operate off of different assumptions, and really believe you can do as you please and expect a defined window of acceptable reactions 100% of the time. Good luck with that.

    beer ‘n pretzels (29e776)

  386. A LOT of erstwhile Republicans, their knickers in a twist over that nasty Trump and his poor spelling in his tweets, are telling themselves that they don’t have to worry about Biden — the Senate will save them.

    And to think this started because of pro-Trump hyperbole that a President Biden would turn the US into a socialist state. Good grief.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  387. https://amgreatness.com/2020/05/31/jake-tappers-attempt-to-blame-far-right-groups-for-protest-violence-fizzles-with-trumps-national-security-advisor/

    Please link to a mainstream media person saying this.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/31/2020 @ 8:30 pm

    Jake Tapper qualify?

    I figured the remark about Russia was a jest to mock those who blame Russia for everything, but Tapper really does blame foreign influences as well as take a joke of a report from Vice blaming violence on right wing groups. I know, I know. He was “just asking questions.”

    Fingers crossed, right?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  388. @394 If a reporter is not supposed to ask their interviewee controversial questions, what do you think their job is?

    Nic (896fdf)

  389. There is no way that the GOP holds the Senate if Trump loses.

    The number of seats up for grabs is irrelevant because most are safe. For the Dems to regain the majority, McSally, Gardner and Collins would have to lose. I’d say it’s more likely than not that they’ll lose. I don’t share your certainty.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  390. “What are you feelings on antifa?”

    While I enjoy seeing nazis get punched as much as the next guy, I think they’re largely irrelevant except as a boogeyman for the right. They’re really only interested in brawling, which isn’t productive.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  391. “If you don’t do what a cop expects you to do, either by explicit instruction or basic common sense, and he feels threatened (legitimately or not), the cop may not care if what he does to you fails to follow a standard of behavior. It’s arbitrary.”

    At the risk of repeating myself, this is why people are protesting. The fact that you don’t understand that people find this intolerable just shows that you’re complacent, and not a member of the groups that end up victimized.

    “It has everything to do with the cop being human and preferring to face justice than be dead”

    None of the cops in these videos were in danger, and it’s very unlikely any of them will face justice. It took the protests (and maybe the riots) to get a very obvious murderer charged.

    “maybe being a bad human or a marginal human.”

    Maybe we should ask for more from a group that has life or death power over the rest of us.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  392. Jake Tapper qualify?

    I figured the remark about Russia was a jest to mock those who blame Russia for everything, but Tapper really does blame foreign influences as well as take a joke of a report from Vice blaming violence on right wing groups. I know, I know. He was “just asking questions.”

    Fingers crossed, right?

    I take it that you just read this and didn’t actually watch the interview right? Context is a thing. Your claim…

    The MSM has already figured that out. The violence, burning, and looting? Not done by Antifa. Instead, its all being done by mysterious “White Supremacists” financed by “Russians”.

    You could of course actually watch it, or read it. O’brien admitted to foreign actors pushing the communities to violence online. Tapper was the rational one, O’brien was the one picking a single talking point, Antifa (you know, not a group, like BLM) is doing it all, while still admitting that yes foreigners were trying to boost the conflict, and yes alt-right groups were too, but it’s Antifa!!!(whisper– just a little of the other guys, but we don’t want to talk about that.

    So, I expect a short report on that, you should have time between between now and morning to write a reason why you shouldn’t fail the test of knowing what your talking about when you claim a thing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  393. Are the rioters hurting their cause? No because they have a different cause.

    asset (67dce1)

  394. The fact that you don’t understand that people find this intolerable just shows that you’re complacent, and not a member of the groups that end up victimized.

    And, your heightened level of understanding was credentialed where? Genuinely curious.

    Here’s a solution: Let’s have more cops represented by these groups. Do you think they aren’t heavily recruited? The problem is that being a cop carries with it a negative connotation, even within the “white” group. Much more so with other groups, which you would know better than me because of your heightened understanding. Not enough are taking advantage of the opportunity.

    But, I don’t see much interest in improving representation in law enforcement coming from you or the protesters. I just haven’t seen it. At all. Maybe because the interest is directed at attacking and weakening law enforcement than finding concrete ways to make it better. Would love to be proved wrong.

    beer ‘n pretzels (efe0ef)

  395. I will do everything in my power to never pay another tax I can avoid. No effing way will my hard earned money be spent rebuilding antifa’s crime on humanity. Rural law abiding citizens should not have to deal with liberal big city anti American dolts. Gitmo is where these white, stoner ingrates belong. And the little piglet marco rubio says far right are to blame for this. Such a turd on humanity this pos is. Good grief you are a never trump fool.

    mg (8cbc69)

  396. I hope Trump will keep the feds out of these democrat controlled cities, exposing the antifa mayors and governors failure to execute the rule of law. Big cities will burn.

    mg (8cbc69)

  397. The democrat national convention came early.
    and Milwaukee smiled

    mg (8cbc69)

  398. Is it possible to be more obtuse.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  399. Gonna go throw your new knees over the Massachusetts governor’s house fence in protest, mg?

    nk (1d9030)

  400. Do governors need the orange’s authorization to deploy the National Guard?

    nk (1d9030)

  401. Can you imagine what Putin and all of our friends and enemies throughout the world are saying about the U.S. as they watch the Ferguson riot
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 25, 2014

    Our country is totally fractured and, with our weak leadership in Washington, you can expect Ferguson type riots and looting in other places
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 25, 2014

    As China and the rest of the World continue to rip off the U.S. economically, they laugh at us and our president over the riots in Ferguson!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 25, 2014

    Yeah, that guy is right.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  402. Journalists who just a week ago were shaming people for wanting to peacefully attend church or go to the beach now happily promoting the lawless mobs in the streets.
    _

    Michael Calderone
    @mlcalderone

    Journalists become targets at protests across the US
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze

    “Police are turning violent and targeting us!” The journalist writes as they stand in a crowd of people who are throwing rocks and torching cars.
    ___

    Jon Wrangler
    @officialjhenry
    ·
    Seeing as how journalists are a major reason for why riots across the nation erupted, don’t expect me to feel much sympathy.
    __ _

    Frenchy
    @buckeyes1980
    ·
    Good, you are terrorists and ruined this country with your fake news and mission to divide for clicks. You deserve all of it
    __ _

    deepereyes
    @deepereyes
    ·
    Is your right to do your job without police interference above the right of people to worship at a synagogue without police interference?
    @BilldeBlasio
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)

  403. Oh, come on, Mr. Colonel! Didn’t you see the STRENGTH!(sic) in Mr. President Donald Trump’s tweets?

    nk (1d9030)

  404. Regarding Antifa, they’re tactically stupid by engaging in Nazi punching because they’ll only alienate more people to their causey cause than attract, but it’s literally true that the neo-Nazi who murdered Heather Heyer in Charlottesville has killed more people than all Antifa protesters put together.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  405. LA Times headline:

    Looters Rampage Across Region

    Wonder if the Times realizes they helped sow the seeds of this mayhem.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  406. Journalists who just a week ago were shaming people for wanting to peacefully attend church or go to the beach now happily promoting the lawless mobs in the streets.

    What a load of Crap. All the examples you offered shown journalists documented where violence had unnecessarily been used against them by LEO.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  407. For those looking for some awesome news:

    Joe Biden, the Moderate, Plans the Most Radical Economic Overhaul Since FDR

    https://www.newsweek.com/2020/06/12/joe-biden-moderate-plans-most-radical-economic-overhaul-since-fdr-1507674.html
    __

    harkin (9c4571)

  408. Meanwhile, back on Earth:

    AG Bill Barr Releases Statement on Riots and Domestic Terrorism: “violence instigated by Antifa is domestic terrorism”

    With the rioting that is occurring in many of our cities around the country, the voices of peaceful and legitimate protests have been hijacked by violent radical elements. Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate, violent, and extremist agenda.

    It is time to stop watching the violence and to confront and stop it. The continued violence and destruction of property endangers the lives and livelihoods of others, and interferes with the rights of peaceful protestors, as well as all other citizens.
    It also undercuts the urgent work that needs to be done – through constructive engagement between affected communities and law enforcement leaders – to address legitimate grievances. Preventing reconciliation and driving us apart is the goal of these radical groups, and we cannot let them succeed.

    It is the responsibility of state and local leaders to ensure that adequate law enforcement resources, including the National Guard where necessary, are deployed on the streets to reestablish law and order. We saw this finally happen in Minneapolis last night, and it worked.

    Federal law enforcement actions will be directed at apprehending and charging the violent radical agitators who have hijacked peaceful protest and are engaged in violations of federal law.

    To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF).

    The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/31/ag-bill-barr-releases-statement-on-riots-and-domestic-terrorism-violence-instigated-by-antifa-is-domestic-terrorism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  409. Bill Barr is not exactly on Earth. The minimum depth of the top of a sanitary sewer pipe is six feet.

    nk (1d9030)

  410. The Reichstag fires that the demented baboon fanned are not working out the way he hoped is what it looks like to me, and I worry what conflagration he will try next.

    nk (1d9030)

  411. Klink,

    you asked if there was a reporter pushing that BS. I gave it to you and predicted exactly what you’d say in response. Then you moved the goal posts so far that they weren’t even in the stadium anymore. I was correct.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  412. asset (67dce1) — 5/31/2020 @ 11:59 pm

    Are the rioters hurting their cause? No because they have a different cause.

    Exactly.

    So what is their cause?

    It’s actually a longshot.

    A. Creating police free zones, (not everywhere – they have got to live somewhere themselves) in order that drug dealers, who a have been bribing them, can sell addictive drugs unimpeded, and their customers can steal unimpeded in order to pay for the drugs.

    That’s the only thing that makes sense, and I refuse to believe that people ast smart tactically as the riot planners are, are so stupid that they don’t see it’s counterproductive – besides there is isn’t any case anyway that the demonstrations are for. It’s all the product of lies that don’t comport with reality, and no remedy is possible. Well, except for getting rid of the police, which is the bottom line.

    The peaceful protesters are being manipulated.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  413. Klink,

    you asked if there was a reporter pushing that BS. I gave it to you and predicted exactly what you’d say in response. Then you moved the goal posts so far that they weren’t even in the stadium anymore. I was correct.

    You have failed in your assignment. The one thing you used to claim to be right, said exactly the opposite. You had time to either find an example, or actually read the one your were referencing, you refused to do either. So, I’ll take that to mean you don’t care about what is true, only what you can say to make you FEELZ like what your saying is true.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  414. Trump’s attempt to backdoor Russia’s inclusion in the G7 (by also inviting India, South Korea and Australia) is getting pushback from Canada and the UK. I wouldn’t be surprised if the other members have similar objections.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  415. Paul, It’s great how much our allies respect us now. All this winning and respect is so great.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  416. There’s a good argument to add a few members to the G7, Time, but I would replace Russia with Brazil or Chile and definited invite SK, Australia and India.
    My concern is that Trump would rather withdraw from alliances than start or build them, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he threatens to withdraw from the G7 if he doesn’t get what he wants, which would be a frothy combination of stupid, short-sighted and counterproductive.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  417. Eh, definitely, not definited, which almost sounds like a word.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  418. Breaking:

    The attorney representing the family of George Floyd says that an independent autopsy has found the 46-year-old’s death was caused by “asphyxia from sustained forceful pressure.”

    That’s according to civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who on Monday released the results of the autopsy by forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson.

    The Hennepin ME’s report said:

    …there were “no physical findings that support death by traumatic asphyxia or strangulation” after he was pinned to the ground with the knee of former Officer Derek Chauvin to his neck for almost 9 minutes, while two other officers were kneeling on the lower half of his body.

    Instead, it determined his death was likely the result of “the combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system.” It was noted that Floyd had two heart conditions.

    I have questions: Why wasn’t a toxicology report done to confirm, one way or the other? Why leave it open as a possibility? Were they somehow trying to minimize damage in a civil suit? How do they determine “combined effects”? How much of one, how much of the other?

    Dana (0feb77)

  419. The Reichstag fires that the demented baboon fanned are not working out the way he hoped is what it looks like to me, and I worry what conflagration he will try next.

    The demented baboon is just a figurehead. Everything is going according to plan.

    Much, much better, in fact.

    Dave (1bb933)

  420. How can it be an “independent autopsy” when the work is bought and paid for the family of the victim? This is not unlike the second autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein, where could be underlying motivations such as seeking a major award in a civil trial.
    If there really should be an independent autopsy, then maybe it should be done by a different county or the State of MN or the federal Civil Rights Division.

    Paul Montagu (466a99)

  421. Dana, the reports I saw about the Medical Examiner’s report said toxicology results were being waited for. One reason the ME report was only preliminary.

    Kishnevi (e4a4c9)

  422. Politico has a good summary of Judge Sullivan’s attorney’s 46-page brief to the appeals court. IANAL, but I don’t believe Ms. Powell made the case on her Writ of Mandamus.
    Also, Ms. Wilkinson opened the door to questioning Barr’s integrity, saying that his motion to dismiss provided “reason to question the ‘presumption of regularity’ that ordinarily attaches to prosecutorial decisions.”

    Paul Montagu (c5b2c2)

  423. There is a new report that a recent study (that Hydroxychloroquine is not effective) may be questionable science.

    The infectious disease specialist managing the Covid cases in my region told me that Hydroxychloroquine, when given early, has been very effective in his cases. None of his Hydroxychloroquine patients during a two month period died, but in the two weeks since the drug was questioned and he stopped using it, mortality jumped to 10% with no significant changes in patients.

    Politics aside, this is good news. I hope they start using Hydroxychloroquine again in my region.

    DRJ (15874d)

  424. That’s great news. There is no reason for political parties to attempt to harness medical advances for dog and pony show.

    Dustin (d59cff)


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