Patterico's Pontifications

5/29/2020

Breaking: Police Officer Arrested In Connection With George Floyd’s Death (Update Added)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:43 am



[guest post by Dana]

After a night of escalating violence and protest in Minneapolis and St. Paul, it was just announced that an arrest has been made in connection with George Floyd’s death:

Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has been arrested in connection with the death of George Floyd while in police custody.

Minnesota Department of Public Safety Commissioner John Mark Harrington reappeared at the podium Friday after a news conference ended, saying that the BCA has arrested Chauvin. He did not have any information about specific charges.

Multiple sources confirmed to KARE 11 that Chauvin was the officer seen on video with his knee on Floyd’s neck before he died.

P.S. NBC has released a video that appears to show that there were three officers on the ground with George Floyd (including Chauvin), with a fourth officer standing over the group.

UPDATE: Chavin arrested on third-degree murder and manslaughter charges:

Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Friday that he expects charges will be filed against the three other officers who were involved in George Floyd’s death following the arrest Friday afternoon of former Officer Derek Chauvin…

He declined to discuss the evidence that led to Chauvin’s arrest one day after he said authorities needed more time to gather evidence. He said among the items authorities reviewed were the video shot by bystander Darnella Frazier which sparked widespread outrage on social media, Chauvin’s body camera footage and a preliminary report from the medical examiner.

Freeman announced Friday that Chauvin was arrested on third-degree murder and manslaughter charges in Floyd’s death. He was taken into custody by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: It is good that Chauvin has been arrested for murder. It is bad that it appears to be in response to widespread and violent rioting. By the way: the appearance is not necessarily accurate; law enforcement could have been waiting for the coroner’s opinion as to cause of death. But the appearance is awful.

UPDATE BY DANA: You can read the seven-page complaint here.

UPDATE BY DANA: I’ve copy/pasted a critical portion of the complaint filed against Chauvin. Notice the time increments, notice how Chauvin refused to repostion Floyd, notice how, after an officer said he was unable to locate a pulse that Chauvin kept his knee on the back of Floyd’s neck. And mostly, notice the lack of response or intervention by the other police officers as a man lay dying. They did absolutely nothing to help Floyd. To the contrary:

Untitled

143 Responses to “Breaking: Police Officer Arrested In Connection With George Floyd’s Death (Update Added)”

  1. I’ll try to update the post with any new developments throughout the day.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. I wonder if this will alleviate any of the rioting? Somehow I doubt it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  3. I hope it does. Usually I want to wait for more information. But I watched that video. I don’t know that i have much doubt about what happened.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  4. News conference now. Only real thing announced was that one arrest. Not even a copy of the complaint. My opinion is this was rushed to satisfy the rioters.

    And having heard an MSNBC reporter use his time to preach about racism and excuse rioters as emotional youths, I am half inclined to think these cops will get off and wouldn’t be upset if they do.

    Kishnevi (1a844c)

  5. @4 watch the video where George is slowly smothered to death while he begs for air. It helps focus you.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  6. From an earlier thread:
    Laura Ingraham to Black Americans: Trump Understands Police Violence Because of Russia Probe

    Fox News host Laura Ingraham attempted to explain to African-Americans on Thursday night that President Donald Trump can empathize with inequality and police brutality due to his “own experience” with federal investigators during the Russia probe.
    …..
    “And to our African-American fellow citizens, I say this: Given his own experience with an out-of-control FBI and unfair investigation, given all the work on criminal justice reform, President Trump knows how poisonous and out-of-control law enforcement process can be,” Ingraham proudly declared, concluding her mini-monologue.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  7. Derek Chauvin charged with third-degree murder and manslaugther in death of George Floyd
    Fired Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter in the death of George Floyd, Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman announced Friday afternoon. Agents with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension arrested Chauvin, authorities said.

    Chauvin is the former police officer who was captured on video pressing his knee into George Floyd’s neck on Monday as Floyd repeatedly said, “I can’t breathe.” Floyd later died.

    “That’s less than four days,” Minnesota Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington said. “That’s extraordinary. We have never charged a case in that time frame.”
    ……
    Minneapolis City Council Vice President Andrea Jenkins said Floyd and Chauvin knew each other for many years because they worked security at the same night club. Both men worked at El Nuevo Rodeo on Lake Street before their fatal encounter.
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  8. Time, they’ll say they thought he was faking it, and no one will be able to prove that wasn’t so.
    Knee on neck is an approved procedure if a suspect is resisting arrest. There seem to be enough minutes of this situation not on video that the claim he was resisting arrest won’t be disprovable.

    Kishnevi (1a844c)

  9. Trump wants to win over black voters while his base wants him to be tough. His base is winning.
    …..
    …..His campaign has invested heavily in trying to peel black voters away from the Democratic Party, making repeated pitches to black Americans. The campaign has held a number of events focused on blacks and elevated black surrogates. In the past week, he has invested a lot of energy in elevating a comment from former vice president Joe Biden in which Biden criticized black Americans who might consider backing Trump.
    ……
    Trump wants to appeal to black voters, but he needs to demonstrate toughness to his base. His base, like himself, is far more sympathetic to the law enforcement side of the equation than to the issues being raised by the Black Lives Matter movement. ……
    ……
    So far, Trump has been able to avoid having to choose between supporting the police in Minnesota and supporting the protests against Floyd’s death. In part, that’s a function of the breadth of condemnation of how Floyd’s death occurred. The National Fraternal Order of Police — which endorsed Trump in 2016 — released a statement criticizing how Floyd’s death occurred. But he has been unable to avoid the tension between recognizing the outrage of black Americans at what happened in Minneapolis and his need to demonstrate his own hyperbolic toughness.
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  10. “My opinion is this was rushed to satisfy the rioters.”

    My opinion is that he would not have been charged at all if it weren’t for the rioters.

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  11. 8. Knee on the neck is an approved procedure?! In what city’s police department, Kish? Knee on the spine between the shoulder blades has been done, and I’m not a big fan of that, but that’s a lot less likely to kill you than having your trachea collapsed and your carotid arteries pinched.

    Gryph (08c844)

  12. 11. I stand corrected. Apparently, it is approved in certain situations and by certain officers who have undergone training, in Minneapolis. All that says to me is that the MPD has blood on its hands as well as Derek Chauvin and his three buddies.

    Gryph (08c844)

  13. 8. That is why the charge is third-degree murder instead of 1st degree. They don’t have to prove that Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he showed a reckless and depraved disregard.

    Gryph (08c844)

  14. Time, they’ll say they thought he was faking it, and no one will be able to prove that wasn’t so.
    Knee on neck is an approved procedure if a suspect is resisting arrest. There seem to be enough minutes of this situation not on video that the claim he was resisting arrest won’t be disprovable.

    Bodycam footage exists. Plus there was the call to EMT’s before Chauvin showed up.

    What kind of pansies need to kneel on his neck for 10 minutes after any fantasy resisting happened, there for 4 officers, and he was handcuffed. He should have been stuffed into the cruiser for 5 minutes by the time this guy died.

    These charges appear appropriate.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  15. 14. I’ll call it right now: Chauvin and his three buddies will all walk. Acquittal. The magic blue cloak of law enforcement will protect them as it has protected others in the past. They’ll say they were following departmental policy, the department will back them, and no one will be held to account.

    But might I add, Colonel, Sir, I do also believe that these charges are appropriate.

    Gryph (08c844)

  16. This is where due process needs to…process.

    There will be a trial, with expert testimony and a jury. If you look at recent history, you may feel somewhat heartened that the process works.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  17. 16. It works only in the sense that the benefit of the doubt is given to the accused. When cops are de facto held to a lower standard of behavior than the citizens they are supposed to “protect and serve–” which is itself a load of bulls**t, that’s not “justice” as I understand the term.

    Gryph (08c844)

  18. Update added:

    Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Friday that he expects charges will be filed against the three other officers who were involved in George Floyd’s death following the arrest Friday afternoon of former Officer Derek Chauvin…

    He declined to discuss the evidence that led to Chauvin’s arrest one day after he said authorities needed more time to gather evidence. He said among the items authorities reviewed were the video shot by bystander Darnella Frazier which sparked widespread outrage on social media, Chauvin’s body camera footage and a preliminary report from the medical examiner.

    Freeman announced Friday that Chauvin was arrested on third-degree murder and manslaughter charges in Floyd’s death. He was taken into custody by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

    Dana (0feb77)

  19. 18. The charges are and will be for show. They’ll all walk. I don’t like it, but they will.

    Gryph (08c844)

  20. Weird question with regard to 2 of the 3 other officers…was the Cup Foods corner store owned/operated by yellow/East Asians and hit up multiple times by similar forgeries?

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  21. 20. What I’d like to know is, was George Floyd actually complicit in forgery/counterfeiting, or was it all a horrendous mistake? I know it shouldn’t make a difference as to how this case is handled moving forward, but after all the times I’ve heard of SWAT teams getting the wrong house in no-knock raids, it would be particularly tragic for them to have killed the wrong guy in this instance over something non-violent, to begin with.

    Gryph (08c844)

  22. We’re at the “hands up, don’t shoot” stage. Next stage, “media outrage”, is already in full swing but not yet at max. After that comes “virtue posturing” by the various elites.

    Stage after that is called “letting the facts roll in” — but that comes much much later.

    That isn’t to say the facts won’t ultimately back up the outrage.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6181e7)

  23. Oddly, I disagree with the Gryph analysis. I like our system.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  24. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: It is good that Chauvin has been arrested for murder. It is bad that it appears to be in response to widespread and violent rioting. By the way: the appearance is not necessarily accurate; law enforcement could have been waiting for the coroner’s opinion as to cause of death. But the appearance is awful.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  25. 23. I have a feeling you like the way our system is supposed to work, Rags. I don’t like the way it works in practice. And here we are.

    Gryph (08c844)

  26. Generally, my faith in our system and in our people has been borne out. It beats the hell out of NOT believing in them.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  27. 26. Oh yeah? I guess if you’re blind to the established fact that cops operate under a different set of rules and laws than the rest of us do, then you must feel pretty good about your faith in the system. But I’m pegging you as the kind of guy who thinks it matters if you vote in November, so I guess it’s an utter waste of my time and yours to try to change your mind.

    Gryph (08c844)

  28. Trump distances himself from historical meaning of ‘when the looting starts, the shooting starts’

    President Trump on Friday afternoon denied that the phrase he used in early morning tweets, “when the looting starts, the shooting starts,” was meant as a threat. Instead, he tweeted, “it was spoken as a fact, not as a statement.”
    ……
    The phrase “when the looting starts, the shooting starts,” dates back to 1967 when armed robberies and unrest gripped black neighborhoods in Miami. The city’s white police chief, Walter Headley, held a news conference “declaring war” on criminals and used the phrase as he warned that police would use shotguns and dogs at his command.

    “I’ve let the word filter down that when the looting starts, the shooting starts,” Headley said.

    The president distanced himself from the history of the phrase Friday afternoon.

    “Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night,” Trump tweeted, “I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means.”
    ……

    His base knows what he means ….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  29. I guess if you’re blind to the established fact that cops operate under a different set of rules and laws than the rest of us do……

    It’s called qualified immunity.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  30. I’m not sure how much of “Trump’s base” agrees with police kneeling on a guys neck until he dies. His base, though, is concerned about rioting, arson and looting.

    They are also glomming onto the story that the officer and Floyd may have known each other from working security (Floyd as a bouncer inside and Chauvin working outside) at a night club.

    Xmas (eafb47)

  31. 30. Outside of idle gossip, I’m not sure what that has to do with prosecuting this murder case. Unless something happened at the club between these two, that there could have been some bad blood; that doesn’t really seem to be the case.

    Gryph (08c844)

  32. 29. Qualified immunity does not apply to cops who break the law. It makes it harder to sue individual cops operating under color of their badge, but only so long as they follow procedure to the letter and act in good faith.

    If “qualified immunity” means that you can’t prosecute an on-duty cop for crimes committed while he was on duty, that’s a pretty strong argument that we’re living in a police state, and your faith in the system is just evidence to me that there are people happy about it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  33. I’m not sure how much of “Trump’s base” agrees with police kneeling on a guys neck until he dies.
    Being tough on crime?

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  34. 33. There’s tough on crime, and then there’s depraved indifference to life a la Officer Chauvin. Let me remind you, folks, Minnesota has long been a Democrat stronghold. It was the only state that went for Mondale in ’84.

    Gryph (08c844)

  35. “ His base knows what he means ….”

    Just possibly ‘his base’ includes the armed blacks who defended their businesses and which apparently were left untouched.

    https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1266131437436231681?s=20

    Taking a page from the Korean store owners in LA and exercising 2nd amendment rights may have saved a lot more businesses in Minneapolis/St Paul while the cops were not capable of stopping it.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  36. Customs and Border Protection Is Flying a Predator Drone Over Minneapolis
    ……
    The drone was first spotted on a flight tracking tool by members of the ADB-S Exchange, a community of flight watchers who use open-source flight data to monitor America’s skies. Presumably, the drone is surveilling protests there, though CBP did not respond to a request for comment about what the drone is doing there.

    “CBP Predator Drone CPB104 circling over Minneapolis at 20K feet,” Jason Paladino, an investigative reporter at The Project on Government Oversight tweeted on Friday. “Took off from Grand Forks Air Force Base.”

    …..The drone took off from the Air Force Base before making several hexagonal-shaped flyovers around Minneapolis, according to the data…..
    …..
    CBP-104 is also named in daily drone flight logs from CBP from 2012, published by the Electronic Frontier Foundation. The drone’s activities at the time included collecting synthetic-aperture radar imagery and full-motion video to aid in actions such as surveilling the border, as well as surveilling and busting cannabis grow ops and methamphetamine labs……
    ……
    Customs and Border Patrol did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  37. I’ve updated the post with a link to the complaint.

    Dana (0feb77)

  38. I took the Army combatives course in 2003-4 and it was basically choke hold week. It was just a week long BJJ course, so the only thing you can really teach is the choke hold, it’s incredibly effective. 5-20 seconds is ample time to get someone to submit when they’re actively fighting, you can’t really fight it, especially when you’re handcuffed.

    There is video for Floyd being choked for 9 minutes after any resistance he was putting up would have been over, and looking at the clothes of the officers, I highly doubt that there was anything worth being called “resistance”.

    Rolling around on the ground fighting someone is going to have at least one of the officers with mussed hair, sunglasses, or a shirt untucked.

    Chauvin can get convicted, but still get sentenced to probation if I read the statute right, so the max is 25 years, but even a conviction probably won’t mean anything like that.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  39. Glad to see the police were charged. Don’t know if it will quell the “mostly peaceful” protestors as the media calls the looters and rioters.

    The only thing that makes me even crack a bit of a smile in this whole awful mess is watching the media tap dance around calling the looters and rioters what they are.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  40. We’re at the “hands up, don’t shoot” stage. Next stage, “media outrage”, is already in full swing but not yet at max. After that comes “virtue posturing” by the various elites.

    Stage after that is called “letting the facts roll in” — but that comes much much later.

    That isn’t to say the facts won’t ultimately back up the outrage.

    Generally speaking, and out of curiosity, after watching both videos and knowing that the 911 call made was about a man passing a $20 counterfeit bill, can you think of anything that would justify a police officer forcefully holding his knee on the the back of a compliant and handcuffed individual’s neck while pinned to the ground for at least eight minutes until said individual stops speaking or moving? And don’t forget the three other police officers present – 3 on the ground with the restrained individual, and one standing next to the group overlooking what was happening.

    Dana (0feb77)

  41. Oh yeah? I guess if you’re blind to the established fact that cops operate under a different set of rules and laws than the rest of us do, then you must feel pretty good about your faith in the system. But I’m pegging you as the kind of guy who thinks it matters if you vote in November, so I guess it’s an utter waste of my time and yours to try to change your mind.

    I’m not blind to much of anything, including your self-satisfied narcissism, so I’m pegging you as someone who can’t be taught a damn thing by anyone.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  42. Trump promised in his 2016 acceptance speech that he would end crime and violence on the day he took office:

    I have a message for all of you: the crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end. Beginning on January 20th 2017, safety will be restored.

    He’s been very busy golfing and hate-tweeting B-list celebs, but I’m sure he’ll get around to it one of these days…

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. Just possibly ‘his base’ includes the armed blacks who defended their businesses and which apparently were left untouched.

    Which I am certain constitutes a microcosm of Trump voters in Minnesota and the country.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  44. “Taking a page from the Korean store owners in LA and exercising 2nd amendment rights may have saved a lot more businesses in Minneapolis/St Paul while the cops were not capable of stopping it.”

    The cops were capable, they were just unwilling.

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  45. If Trump was so certain about his initial tweet about “when the looting starts, the shoot starts”, why did walk it back from its historical meaning? If he really meant it, he should have stuck to his guns. Apparently he did not have the black business owners in mind.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  46. Glad to see the police were charged. Don’t know if it will quell the “mostly peaceful” protestors as the media calls the looters and rioters

    The MSM I watched was saying the daytime protests were peaceful, but got violent after dark, and suggested the looting had been organized beforehand. And also made clear that the police had been very dilatory in dealing with the riots last night, and that a bunch of local owned businesses had been hurt.
    And that was MSNBC, which otherwise has spent the day being a channel for BLM.

    Kishnevi (76d371)

  47. Of course Chauvin was arrested and charged. So should the other officers invoved.

    I was up early this morning, checking the news. Fox had nothing to report on the riots in Minneapolis and St. Paul, or anywhere else for that matter–and there have been demonstrations and protests in several other cities across the country, but not to extent of vandalism, looting and arson. So I turned to CNN.

    They were covering the riots in Minneapolis, and the city was in flames. The 3rd police precinct had been torched, and several other buildings as well. It was madness and mayhem all night, but there was no police presence or fire department response.

    Then in the early morning, State Patrol officers, in full riot gear, and the National Guard showed up in force, including with armored vehicles.

    Tear gas, rubber bullets, batons, shields, face masks, and body aror, they dispersed the crowd and secured the area. It was a massive show of force.

    There was this black reporter covering the scene. He was approached by State Patrol officers, identified himself as a journalist, showed his credentials, was polite and defertial to the officers, asked where they wanted him to move to. And they arrested him on the spot, led him away in handcuffs, along with his producer and camera crew!

    Meanwhile, a block away a white reporter for CNN was not harassed in any way. These are not good optics, especially since the riots were spawned by the abuse of a black man, which resulted in his death, by white police officers.

    A black reporter, who was just doing his job, had committed no crime, and was willing to comply with orders, gets arrested before a white officer gets arrested and charged with unlawfully subduing and killing a black man?

    That does not play well.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  48. 41. I don’t think you have a lot to teach me if you think qualified immunity has anything to do with criminal law. Police officers are not above the law, and ought to be treated the same as any citizen when they commit crimes.

    Gryph (08c844)

  49. Ron Wyden
    @RonWyden

    If you woke up today angry, confused or frustrated about the direction our country is heading, I have one word for you: vote.
    __ _

    Don
    @donaldkoenig
    ·
    2 words.

    Vote Blue.
    __ _

    Jonathan “Boo and Vote” Cohn
    @JonathanCohn

    Minnesota has a Democratic governor.

    Minneapolis has a Democratic mayor.

    The Minneapolis City Council is 12-1 Democratic. The 1 is a Green.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  50. @40: Have you seen the coroner’s report? I haven’t.

    Also: If (again, IF) Floyd reached for an officer’s gun, that would be a mitigating circumstance. The videos I’ve seen don’t rule that in or out.

    Any officer deemed fit to be active on the force has a right to go home to their families. So do suspects like Floyd. If (again IF) an officer feels legitimately threatened, their judgement is not going to be the best in the heat of the moment. That’s why, short of an officer telling you to jump off a cliff, you do what he says and 99% of the time everyone sees their family again.

    Of what we know right now, it looks terrible and the officer should face some very severe justice for killing a defenseless man who was no threat. But, I’m resistant to Bonfire of the Vanities type scenarios, which this already is. Let’s get the facts. Is that such a problem? It sounds like you don’t need to know anything more.

    beer ‘n pretzels (84e2fc)

  51. 50. Cops can and have lied about perps reaching for their weapons. And that still doesn’t account for the fact that Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck long after he stopped resisting.

    Gryph (08c844)

  52. “And that still doesn’t account for the fact that Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck long after he stopped resisting.”

    According to the criminal complaint Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck for at least 2 minutes after his heart stopped.

    https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/05/29/former-minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin-arrested/

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  53. I don’t think you have a lot to teach me if you think qualified immunity has anything to do with criminal law.

    Somebody should teach you to read. I’ve never mentioned “qualified immunity”.

    But anyone with a working brain knows the concept has a great deal to do with criminal law and civil law.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  54. I’ve updated the post with a damning portion of the complaint.

    Dana (0feb77)

  55. According to the complaint, Chauvin kept his knee on the neck of George Floyd for almost nine minutes. But three minutes of that time was after Floyd became “non-responsive.”

    I can’t conjure up a reasonable explanation to justify him doing that.

    Dana (0feb77)

  56. And, of course, now comes the agent provocateur chatter, from the sewers of ADOS advocacy:

    http://subrealism.blogspot.com/2020/05/twin-cities-got-its-black-desk-working.html?m=0

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  57. “And, of course, now comes the agent provocateur chatter, from the sewers of ADOS advocacy:”

    Nice labels on that post. Great site you follow.

    https://i.imgur.com/Nu9sbJv.png

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  58. What made this doubly stupid for Chauvin were all the phones videotaping his murder of Floyd. Completely nonsensical.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  59. What makes men so weak, so unmoved, and so unwilling to prevent the death of another man when they know in their gut that it is wrong, wrong, wrong?

    Dana (0feb77)

  60. What made this doubly stupid for Chauvin were all the phones videotaping his murder of Floyd. Completely nonsensical.

    Those bystanders were lucky multiple phones were recording. Otherwise who knows what would have happened to the lone recording…

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  61. And the ultimate irony is that Chauvin and Floyd knew each other. Yeah, they both worked after hours security at a night club.

    So, there must have been some grudge between them. That does not in any way justify Chauvin pressing his knee on Floyds neck, when he was handcuffed and lying face down on the street. Nor does it excuse the other officers who did nothing but stand by and watch.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  62. That does not in any way justify Chauvin pressing his knee on Floyds neck

    Nope, it makes it worse.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  63. Once again we see the court of last resort is not the supreme court but the street. This is why the corporate establishment fears collective action and demands hollywood make only movies about loners like rambo battling the system which are no threat. Making movies about collective action to take on the system are too dangerous.

    asset (18564f)

  64. 53. Yeah you did, Genius. Try looking at post 29 on this thread.

    It’s called qualified immunity.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 5/29/2020 @ 12:29 pm

    …which protects government agents from civil suits for monetary damages, not criminal prosecution. Keep ****ing that chicken, Raggy.

    Gryph (08c844)

  65. 64. Oops. It was RipMurdock who mentioned qualified immunity. Not you. Sorry for the misundertanding, Rags. But my sentiment stands: Qualified immunity most certainly does not mean that cops are immune from criminal prosecution. Quite to the contrary, their qualified (as in, not at all times nor under all circumstances) immunity means they should be held to a higher standard when it comes to criminal conduct.

    Gryph (08c844)

  66. Someone wanna explain to me where it says anything about criminal law here?

    Gryph (08c844)

  67. After the rookie found no pulse, and said as much out loud, Chauvin kept his knee on his neck for another 2 minutes. Didn’t start CPR, didn’t roll him over, check is airway; he kept his knee on his neck for minutes after being told there’s no pulse.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  68. What in the world are you talking about? The M/E found Floyd DID NOT die of strangulation. Its not clear – and will take a complete autopsy – what he died from. He had hypertension/heart problems and may have had drugs in his system.

    I have no idea why the officer knelt on him. It seems to be a technique used by the police to restrain prisoners. However, officers are told it is “potentially dangerous” and should be used with caution. Two of the officers were junior and were more or less by standers. One – Lane – kept asking Chauvin if Floyd was OK or should be let up. To talk about them “Standing by and doing nothing” is ridiculous. This isn’t a girl scout troop.

    Whether he will plead down to manslaughter or fight the 3rd degree murder charge will be seen. I assume the officer will wait for the whole autopsy to become known.

    rcocean (846d30)

  69. Its amazing how in the situations, and i thinking of Freddie Gray, and the NYC cigarette guy in particular, how people will keep mis-characterizing things -even after the facts are known and someone informs them of the facts. I still read MSM reporters talking about how the NYC cigarette guy was “choked to death” or that the police on the scene “Killed Freddie Gray”.

    I fully expect this will happen here.

    rcocean (846d30)

  70. This will all come down to Chauvin’s state of mind. He’s going to have a hard time explaining why he kept kneeling on the man’s neck, and evidently didn’t watch him for any sort of medical problems. I understand why they had to handcuff him, and even put him on the ground. I’m not clear as to why they had to kneel on him, or why – as one officer suggested – they didn’t roll him on his side.

    The FBI investigation for “Civil Rights” will probably end soon, with no action. There’s no racial motive evident.

    rcocean (846d30)

  71. The M/E found Floyd DID NOT die of strangulation.

    It most certainly did NOT say that, it is a preliminary report. Preliminary: denoting an action or event preceding or done in preparation for something fuller or more important.

    Also, you can read the whole complaint posted above.

    This will all come down to Chauvin’s state of mind.

    No, it will come down to reasonable person’s belief. Read the statute.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  72. It most certainly did NOT say that, it is a preliminary report. Preliminary: denoting an action or event preceding or done in preparation for something fuller or more important.

    Oh gosh. Do you realize that “preliminary” doesn’t mean “Just Guessing?” Do you understand that M/E don’t say “NO evidence of X” and then turn around and say “Whoops, did a full exam and It’s X – my bad”?

    Sad that I even have to write that. But nice “pushback”! Keep on “pushing back” against the right.

    rcocean (846d30)

  73. It’s so unlucky that the poor officer decided to kneel on somebody’s neck right before they died of unrelated natural causes.

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  74. It’s so unlucky that somebody’s neck decided to plant itself right under the knee of the police officer, right before the somebody died of natural causes.

    Dana (0feb77)

  75. Like Justine Diamond just happened to be walking where that other Minneapolis cop’s bullet was going.

    nk (1d9030)

  76. I have no idea why the officer knelt on him. It seems to be a technique used by the police to restrain prisoners.

    That’s not what DA said. He called it “inherently dangerous” and that police are trained to know of that danger. The ME made clear that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death by the restraints put on him, hence the murder charge.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  77. Sad that I even have to write that. But nice “pushback”! Keep on “pushing back” against the right.

    Against what right, push back against…?

    Also, educate yourself.

    Deaths due to suffocation can be subdivided by causation into those due to entrapment or environmental suffocation, smothering, choking, mechanical asphyxia, mechanical asphyxia combined with smothering, and suffocating gases. Entrapment involves individuals trapped in air-tight enclosures [e.g. children trapped in abandoned refrigerators]. Environmental suffocation usually involves someone accidentally entering an area depleted of oxygen by a mechanism other than gaseous suffocation. Another cause, inhaled fluid, displaces the oxygen during drowning. Thus, drowning is a form of suffocation. Fungal infestations in underground compartments can cause lethal oxygen reduction. Smothering by mechanical obstruction of the nose and mouth is rarely accidental. However, examples are intoxication leading to loss of consciousness and subsequent face compression on pillows or bedding. Baby cribs with gaps that might impair infant mobility after lying face down are another example. Criminals sometimes inadvertently asphyxiate a victim with gags in the mouth or around the face. Choking asphyxia can be homicidal, accidental or even a natural result of inflammation of the mucosal tissues of the respiratory tract. Steam inhalation can result in swelling to the point of obstruction in some reactive individuals. Most reported choking deaths are accidental and involve obstruction of the pharynx and larynx by food. Accidental inhalation of foreign material is another cause.

    When external pressure prevents breathing by compressing the lungs and diaphragm, the term mechanical asphyxia is used. Traumatic asphyxia, positional asphyxia and “riot-crush” deaths are subtypes of mechanical asphyxia. In traumatic asphyxia, a large mass or heavy weight presses on the victim’s chest or upper body preventing breathing. Survival is surprisingly common even if there is a short loss of consciousness. More severe cases have included people pinned under a vehicle after a motorway accident or a vehicle falling or rolling onto someone attempting repairs. Traumatic asphyxia during police restraint when officers attempt to subdue someone by sitting on his chest often involves meth-amphetamine abuse and taser application, further complicating the analysis of death. Positional asphyxia is often an accidental result of someone trapped in a position that prevents breathing. Self-imposed suspended or strapped positions with the head lowered for autoerotic benefits are examples of accidental or suicidal positional asphyxia. Many cases involve alcohol or drug intoxication. When someone is prevented from breathing or crushed by the bodies of others during sports games and rock concerts, the asphyxial death is termed “riot-crush” for obvious reasons.

    A combination of traumatic asphyxia and smothering can be accidental or homicidal. The former scenario might involve rolling over onto an infant placed in bed with parents or an older sibling. Burials in a collapsed mineshaft or cave are other examples. During the early 19th century, “resurrectionists” Burke and Hare excavated graveyard bodies to sell to medical schools. They decided preying upon live alcoholics would make their job easier. Burke sat on the victim’s chest, used one hand to cover the victim’s nose and mouth and the other to close the victim’s jaws, resulting in traumatic asphyxia, thereby providing a body without digging. This is an example of homicidal traumatic asphyxia in combination with smothering, now called “Burking.” There have been reports of police custody deaths attributed to this mechanism.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  78. What the ultimate cause of death was matters little, considering what Chauvin has been charged with. Two elements, which are rather plain to me from the outside looking in, will determine his guilt or innocence:

    1. Would George Floyd have died had he not been in that situation of having Chauvin’s knee on his neck?

    2. Did Chauvin display a reckless disregard for life in a manner that a reasonable person would find “depraved?”

    Due process dictates that these questions be answered at a trial, but the answers to both questions seem rather obvious to me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  79. 67. Anyone else besides myself think that Chauvin’s behavior represents a depraved state of mind, or is that not a reasonable tack to take?

    74. Right? That’s going to be Chauvin’s [attorneys’] argument in all this, I’m sure, that the death was accidental and that the knee on the neck was only a proximate cause that Chauvin couldn’t have had any way of knowing was dangerous.

    Gryph (08c844)

  80. When the head of the fbi [Comey} runs amok with power and is never going to do time why should his underlings give a flying elvis? Teflonitis.

    mg (8cbc69)

  81. The usual dogwhistles from the usual Trumpenhunde.

    nk (1d9030)

  82. Democrats have held power in Minneapolis for decades and they’ve apparently done close to nothing to correct police misconduct, or improve their relations with the black community. They remain the phony schiffheels they’ve been since the middle of the last century.

    From all reports I’ve read, Floyd was a good man. I watched the video a local store owner had provided that shows Floyd did not resist arrest. There’s no excuse for what happened.

    But there should be no excuse for rioting, looting, arson or perpetrating violence against others.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  83. Re Rcocean at:

    #68, it would not be surprising if Mr. Floyd becomes a posthumously attributed CV-19 victim…he might have been a mild/medium symptomatic who tuffed it out like a 24 hour flu earlier in winter without realizing the damage to his respiratory system and hence reduced bronchial capacities.

    #70 could be a case of Ofc. Chauvin caping/impressing/taking weight for his 2 Asian partners
    …especially if the Cup Foods owners were Asians repeatedly picked on by A-A criminals. Note while he is the senior of the group in terms of years, hes not a Sgt or above.

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  84. 82, true, Colonel, and there hadn’t been the visible/vocal embrace of Conservative Republican politics by the “native” Twin City A-As as in parts of Southern California as cudgel against Somali and other immigrants. While I know they fight each other at the high school level, there may still be the hope of rainbow politics. Who would have thought a most Northern state would have political party assignment like a 1980s deep southern state?

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  85. Floyd, sans his criminal background, would have been a sympathetic “victim of the lockdown” (laid off from the club gig).

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  86. This is where the media and community organizers really show what they are all about.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. Wow, they attacking CNN HQ in Atlanta.

    Ryan Maue
    @RyanMaue

    Some folks are trying really hard to get inside, but the CNN center doors and glass are well fortified as such high traffic tourist destinations these days. The CNN logo is a popular place for travelers to take a picture — iconic symbol in downtown Atlanta.

    https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1266513473799929858?s=20
    __ _

    CNN meanwhile showing protests in Minneapolis. On-scene commentator says:

    The crowd is being asked to be peaceful, they are tired of being peaceful”

    Wonder what they think of that in Atlanta.

    Scary & surreal.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  88. This just in, harkin… Brian Stelter is being evacuated from CNN HQ… no, wait… Brian Stelter has evacuated in CNN HQ…

    Unfortunately, no film at 11…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  89. We’ve got to keep this! It’s great!

    nk (1d9030)

  90. This is really scary.

    Some sort of flash bomb just got thrown at the cops, laser sights on perps…..

    Can’t believe no tear gas used yet.
    _

    They cut away…….
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  91. Well not even DCSCA can find respite this week:
    https://abc7chicago.com/space-x-explosion-rocket-falcon-9-test/6219998/

    urbanleftbehind (549dc5)

  92. This Friday document dump is breaking news but has nothing to do with Minneapolis. The folks demanding the transcript of the Flynn-Kislyak calls have gotten their wish.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  93. The usual dogwhistles from the usual Trumpenhunde.

    Yep, and the usual hate filled rhetoric from the trump haters.

    rcocean (846d30)

  94. #77 Impressive cut and paste. Maybe you can do the Encyclopedia Britannica next time. What that has to do with my point is unclear. But derailment and talking in circles is a form of “pushback”. So well played!

    rcocean (846d30)

  95. Impressive cut and paste. Maybe you can do the Encyclopedia Britannica next time. What that has to do with my point is unclear. But derailment and talking in circles is a form of “pushback”. So well played!

    So, have you educated yourself yet? It doesn’t appear so. It would have taken you 15 seconds to learn a thing, but why bother to be correct, when you can just say a thing. Sounds familiar.

    I’ll take facts, you take FEELZ.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  96. David Burge
    @iowahawkblog
    Can we all just accept that Twitter is a garbage website that attracts lunatics and is curated and filtered by lunatics and under no circumstances should you believe a single thing anybody says here, and all of this is perfectly legal
    7:30 AM · May 28, 2020

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  97. 96. I wonder if Hawk understands the irony of posting that on Twitter…?

    Gryph (08c844)

  98. Gryph (08c844) — 5/29/2020 @ 5:00 pm

    I haven’t watched the video but I’ve read the description of the event and the problem is much larger than this one cop. This was an approved technique and several other cops stood around debating it like they were trying to change a tire. It seemed like all of the cops knew this could be harmful. It seemed like they’d been trained on different restraint techniques and the various risks. This gets more into a banality of evil type situation.

    I’m not sure holding the officer accountable comes close to any sort of sufficient response.

    frosty (f27e97)

  99. Once again the court of last resort is not the supreme court but the street. “God gave noah a sign no more rain the fire next time!” James baldwin on 1965 watts riot. Talk show host joe pyne on his show had black militant on. Joe pulled out his gun slammed it on the table pointed to it and said this is going to teach you people law and ordered! The black militant pulled out his gun slammed it on the table on live tv and said any time your ready you white m.f.er! Then the watts riots got worse.

    asset (651c03)

  100. That don’ move white people outta they comfort zone much, Perry. It just make them hire more police and build more prisons. What move white people outta they comfort zone is when you shut down they pancake houses and they burger pubs.

    nk (1d9030)

  101. go pound sand and have a smoke, you biden swab.

    mg (8cbc69)

  102. 98. I think you’re right, Frosty. That’s why there’s talk of arresting the other three. And I’m not sure that’s a sufficient response. But it will at least serve justice in the matter of George Floyd, as would their incarceration.

    Gryph (08c844)

  103. Things have gotten way out of control, with riots, looting, vandalism, arson, in multiple cities across the country. And what concerns Trump is that it makes him look weak.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-fears-the-minnesota-chaos-makes-him-look-weak?ref=home

    Poor leadership skills tend to do that to malignant narcissists.

    Honestly, I don’t think this has anything to do with the death (murder) of George Floyd, or bad policing, racial discrimination, or anything like that. I think it has to do with anarchists taking advantage of social unrest.

    And why is there social unrest? Because of failed leadership. Instead of uniting and comforting the nation, Trump and his cultists sewed division and anger. This is the result.

    As Americans, we have certain rights: to assemble, to speak, and most importantly to vote. Peaceable protests are one thing, wanton destruction is quite another. The anarchists, hoodlums, looters, and arsonists have taken over what would otherwise be peaceful protests against the police state.

    I’m a child of the 60s, came of age in the 70s, and I grew up around hippies. They were older brothers and sisters of the kids I went to school with. But they were real hippies, not anarchists. They didn’t march in the streets, take over college administration buildings, make bombs, start fires, nothing like that. These hippies had fled the cities and come down here, because at the time it was a largely a rural and agricultural community. They wanted to get back to nature.

    That’s what the real hippie was all about, getting back to nature. They were Romantics, in a sense, opposed to industrialization and corporatism. I didn’t get that until years later.

    I hung out with these hippies, growing up, and you know what? The wouldn’t allow me to smoke, do drugs or have sex. All they ever did was turn me on to some cool music, then send me home. “Go to school. Listen to your mother. Do your homework and do your chores.”

    They looked after me, as did my parents. They were not anarchists. They did not storm the streets. They just wanted to live peaceably, close to nature. That is what has been lost.

    All these riots, this anarchy, is not what America is about. Assemble, speak, vote, that’s what America is about. Black Sabbath sang it best:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyXqWzZ_8sM

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  104. 103. You raise some interesting points. Maybe voting isn’t as important as you think it is, and maybe the failed leadership is a symptom of something deeper.

    Gryph (08c844)

  105. @103. Well-said. Ideological extremists are using this as an excuse to act like a-holes. Entitled bored nihilists. Please let them go back to doing drugs and being in terrible bands. They are gonna get you-know-who re-elected in a hurry.

    JRH (52aed3)

  106. ‘this is what democracy looks like’ sound familiar, there is a whole structure behind this industry of insurrection, from what derrick bell taught, to what corporate diversity officers practice, and minneapolis is the midwest center of this,

    narciso (7404b5)

  107. John Roberts sides with the leftist statists and overrules the Constitution again.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  108. “Although California’s guidelines place restrictions on places of worship, those restrictions appear consistent with the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment,” Roberts wrote.
    “Similar or more severe restrictions apply to comparable secular gatherings, including lectures, concerts, movie showings, spectator sports, and theatrical performances, where large groups of people gather in close proximity for extended periods of time,” he said.

    AND

    California Attorney General Xavier Becerra argued the policy “tracked recent guidance issued by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”
    He said the churches are not injured by the new guidance because while services normally bring in between 200 and 300 congregants, there is nothing that prevents them from “offering additional meeting times.”
    “Indeed, while in-person religious services are now permitted, many other activities that are ‘most comparable’ in terms of COVID-transmission risk factors — ‘concerts, lectures, theatrical performances, or choir practices, in which groups of people gather together for extended periods’ — continue to be barred,” Becerra told the justices in court papers.

    Yeeeep. The Constitution is dead. Rob can’t practice his religion and is now a slave (the plan all along!).

    Dozens of fringe nutters across America hardest hit!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  109. Raggy ignores the actual conservatives on the Court and their opinions. But he’s a stalwart conservative.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  110. Roberta should quote anybody he wants. I just quoted what was readily available and showed you were wetting yourself (again) for no reason but you like the angst.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  111. Emergency preliminary injunction on appeal that forces a state in the middle of a pandemic to alter its law (as opposed to maintaining the status quo)? The odds of winning the lottery are better. A non-partisan court, without Kavanaugh as Justice for the 9th Circuit, would not have heard it at all.

    nk (1d9030)

  112. It’s Operation True Douche, Rob.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  113. 112. Except those states didn’t alter their laws, they were governors passing executive orders. If we’re going to treat a governor’s executive orders like we treat the presidents’, they have no force of law, particularly under state constitutions which have religious freedom clauses (that is to say, all of them).

    I can be convinced of the necessity of maintaining the status quo while a case is heard, but there are courts out there that hand out injunctions like candy anyway (9th circuit, I’m looking at you). I digress.

    Gryph (08c844)

  114. It’s the other way around. Any originalist or textualist view can not justify the current “conservative” idea of religious freedom’ which amounts to “I pick the laws I want to obey.” And any originalist or textualist view would hold all these governor’s orders well within the parameters of the Constitution.

    Kishnevi (ae9a94)

  115. Right Kishnevi. RBG, the Wise Latina, and co are the true originalists.

    Now that is gaslighting.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  116. In fact, on this matter they are.

    There’s nothing conservative about your idea of freedom of religion.

    Kishnevi (ae9a94)

  117. Pentagon puts military police on alert to go to Minneapolis
    As unrest spread across dozens of American cities on Friday, the Pentagon took the rare step of ordering the Army to put several active-duty U.S. military police units on the ready to deploy to Minneapolis, where the police killing of George Floyd sparked the widespread protests.

    Soldiers from Fort Bragg in North Carolina and Fort Drum in New York have been ordered to be ready to deploy within four hours if called, according to three people with direct knowledge of the orders. Soldiers in Fort Carson, in Colorado, and Fort Riley in Kansas have been told to be ready within 24 hours. The people did not want their names used because they were not authorized to discuss the preparations.
    ……
    ……. The president asked Esper for rapid deployment options if the Minneapolis protests continued to spiral out of control, according to one of the people, a senior Pentagon official who was on the call.
    …….
    The person said the military units would be deployed under the Insurrection Act of 1807, which was last used in 1992 during the riots in Los Angeles that followed the Rodney King trial.
    ……..
    But a Pentagon spokesman said Walz did not ask for the Army to be deployed to his state.
    ………
    The [Insurrection] Act would allow the military to take up a policing authority it otherwise would not be allowed to do, enforcing state and federal laws, said Stephen Vladeck, a University of Texas School of Law professor who specializes in constitutional and national security law.

    The statute “is deliberately vague” when it comes to the instances in which the Insurrection Act could be used…….Trump could act on his own authority if he’s determined that the local authorities are so overwhelmed that they can’t adequately enforce the law, Vladeck said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  118. Let me amend my previous comment. It’s not necessarily because “partisan court”. The First Amendment does get special treatment. It’s safer to say that if it were a non-First Amendment case, the Court would not have heard it at all.

    nk (1d9030)

  119. @88-
    The revolution will not be televised.

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  120. Thats where they beat the carp out of andy ngo and some on this board approved of it.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  121. @109-
    In his of activities comparable to church services (lectures, concerts, etc.), Roberts forgot pool parties:

    Person who attended Lake of the Ozarks Memorial Day gathering tests positive for coronavirus
    A person who partied in the Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri, area on Memorial Day weekend has tested positive for coronavirus — and was possibly infectious over the holiday weekend.

    The Boone County resident visited multiple bars on May 24 and 25, according to the Camden County Health Department. They “developed illness” on Sunday and were possibly infectious before then.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (90b76a)

  122. Thats where they beat the carp out of andy ngo and some on this board approved of it.

    Name several.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  123. Except those states didn’t alter their laws, they were governors passing executive orders. If we’re going to treat a governor’s executive orders like we treat the presidents’, they have no force of law, particularly under state constitutions which have religious freedom clauses (that is to say, all of them).

    Yet another instance of you not knowing WTF you’re blowing about.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  124. Well, all I can say is the hippies I grew up around were not into violence, destruction and anarchy.

    Yeah, they grew their hair long, wore bell bottom pants and tie-died t-shirts, and they were into the whole sex, drugs, and rock and roll thing. But they didn’t expose me to any of that, except for the music.

    They just wanted to be left alone to live their lives, close to nature. To me, they were real Americans, in the tradition of Emerson, Thoreau, and Whitman. They were not radicals. All they ever did was expose me to some great music, then send me home. I learned a lot from them.

    All of this rioting, vandalism, looting, arson, and destruction is not what they were about. They just wanted to be left alone to live their lives, and enjoy good music from great bands. This is not that.

    The original, real hippie movement was never about that. It was about getting back to nature, enjoying life, and listening to music.

    That truly American movement was subverted by communist conspiracists. This I truly believe. And it’s now been taken over by anarchists.

    What a waste. What a shame.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  125. If Floyd wasn’t asphyxiated and died from complications of a heart/other health condition, there may be responsibility for his death but I doubt it would be murder.

    DRJ (15874d)

  126. Texas hippies in my youth tended gardens, laid around their homes and did weed, and named their kids Freedom and Liberty. If they protested, it was very laid back and involved lots of discussion.

    DRJ (15874d)

  127. Two federal services officers shot in Oakland, one of which was murdered.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  128. Worth a watch. Hope all the trust fund lefties will watch and take heed.

    JRH (55ddd9)

  129. Those deaths might be federal death penalty offenses, NJRob, depending on the facts. If so, a federal defendant can get executed. California has a moratorium on executions so even if the State convicted a defendant, s/he won’t be executed in the current political climate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  130. If Floyd wasn’t asphyxiated and died from complications of a heart/other health condition, there may be responsibility for his death but I doubt it would be murder.

    Yes, that would be why it’s Murder in the 3rd, not Murder in the 2nd.

    609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
    (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  131. I could see it considered first or second degree manslaughter, too. I know it will be charged higher but a jury might decide a lesser charge applies. I don’t know Minnesota rules. Can the prosecutor refuse to allow lesser included offenses?

    DRJ (15874d)

  132. Here is an explainer on why Chauvin was charged with murder in the 3rd degree and not in the 1st degree, like the Lloyd family wants.

    Dana (0feb77)

  133. Just to recap for the obdurately ignorant fringe nutters…

    NO state or our Federal Constitution exempts any religious entity from laws and regulations.

    EVERY state retained plenary police powers at the time of the Framing, and have always exercised them since.

    Without exception (that I know about) every state governor has the power to implement state laws via executive order that DO have the force of law. Read the KAVANAUGH dissent for support of this FACT.

    NO Justice takes issue with the power of the states to restrict church attendance; the ONLY point of departure between them was whether Kuhlifornia’s restrictions were supported by sufficient factual basis.

    NO Justice has found that the people of ANY state have been prohibited from religious observance.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  134. Did you mean to post this on the weekend open thread post, Ragspierre?

    Dana (0feb77)

  135. Its funny how the antifascists turned out to be against all businesses and all law enforcement, how the patriot scare led them to have dominance in the public square.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  136. Dana, no. But I will re-post it there!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  137. No Dana,

    he just meant to insult the people who disagree with him. Par for the course.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  138. No surprise rob, how goes it with your empowered satrap murphy.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  139. 134. I think murder in the 3rd degree makes more sense to me than murder in the 1st, at least as I understand Minnesota law (and as always, IANAL).

    Gryph (08c844)

  140. No Dana, he just meant to insult the people who disagree with him. Par for the course.

    Strike a nerve, there, Rob. Any counter-arguments you’d care to make?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. Tis is not the first person Derek Chauvon may have killed, altough that other case may have been justified. He shot someone too, once.

    https://www.startribune.com/what-we-know-about-derek-chauvin-and-tou-thao-two-of-the-officers-caught-on-tape-in-the-death-of-george-floyd/570777632

    In 2008, Chauvin shot and wounded Ira Latrell Toles during a domestic assault call. According to a 2011 article from the Pioneer Press, Chauvin and other officers showed up to an apartment in south Minneapolis just before 2 a.m. Toles grabbed for an officer’s gun and Chauvin shot him in the abdomen.

    In 2006, Chauvin and five others responded to a stabbing. After Wayne Reyes, 42, allegedly pulled a shotgun on the officers, one of the officers shot and killed Reyes, according to a report titled “Stolen Lives” from Communities United Against Police Brutality, a police watchdog nonprofit based in Minneapolis.

    Another officer present at the George Floyd scene has an apparetly unjustified assault and arrest on his record.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)


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