Patterico's Pontifications

5/26/2020

Trump Recklessly Pushes Debunked Conspiracy Theory in Series of Obscene Tweets

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:45 pm



[guest post by Dana]

You know, I’ve avoided posting about this story because it’s so disturbing to me that the President of the United States would promote a baseless and debunked conspiracy theory, and cause undue hurt to an innocent family as a result. But I am publishing a post about it because I am livid that Trump doesn’t give a rat’s ass about a very real family, whose members have already mourned and grieved the loss of their loved one and find themselves grieving all over again because, in an effort to smear MSNBC on-air host Joe Scarbarough, our deranged president has insinuated in a series of indefensible tweets that foul play was involved in the death of Lori Klausutis, and that Joe Scarbarough was at the heart of it.

Klausutis was an employee who was found dead in Joe Scarbarough’s then-congressional office:

A little after 8 a.m. on July 20, 2001, a couple arriving for an appointment opened an unlocked front door at an office in the Florida panhandle town of Fort Walton Beach and discovered a woman lying on the floor, dead. Her name was Lori Kaye Klausutis and she was just 28.

The police said they found no signs of foul play. The medical examiner concluded her lonely death was an accident. She had fainted, the result of a heart condition, and hit her head on a desk, he said.

In an attack on Joe Scarbarough, Trump posted a number of tweets referencing the death of Klausutis, in which he smeared her by implying there might have been an affair, and asked intentionally suggested that Scarbarough had gotten away with murder. Here are Trump’s tweets from the past weekend and today:

In a moving letter, the surviving husband of Lori Klausutis implored Jack Dorsey, CEO of Twitter, to delete the tweets involving the death of his wife. Via the NYT, I am posting the letter in full because I think it’s important we get a full picture of inordinate cruelty of Trump’s comments:

21 May 2020

Jack Dorsey, CEO
Twitter Inc.
1355 Market Street
Suite 900
San Francisco, California 94103
Via email: jack@twitter.com

Mr. Dorsey:

Nearly 19 years ago, my wife, who had an undiagnosed heart condition, fell and hit her head on her desk at work. She was found dead the next morning. Her name is Lori Kaye Klausutis and she was 28 years old when she died. Her passing is the single most painful thing that I have ever had to deal with in my 52 years and continues to haunt her parents and sister.

I have mourned my wife every day since her passing. I have tried to honor her memory and our marriage. As her husband, I feel that one of my marital obligations is to protect her memory as I would have protected her in life. There has been a constant barrage of falsehoods, half-truths, innuendo and conspiracy theories since the day she died. I realize that may sound like an exaggeration, unfortunately it is the verifiable truth. Because of this, I have struggled to move forward with my life.

The frequency, intensity, ugliness, and promulgation of these horrifying lies ever increases on the internet. These conspiracy theorists, including most recently the President of the United States, continue to spread their bile and misinformation on your platform disparaging the memory of my wife and our marriage. President Trump on Tuesday tweeted to his nearly 80 million followers alluding to the repeatedly debunked falsehood that my wife was murdered by her boss, former U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough. The son of the president followed and more directly attacked my wife by tweeting to his followers as the means of spreading this vicious lie.

I’m sure you are aware of this situation because media around the world have covered it, but just in case, here it is:

My request is simple: Please delete these tweets.

I’m a research engineer and nota lawyer, but I’ve reviewed all of Twitter’s rules and terms of service. The President’s tweet that suggests that Lori was murdered — without evidence (and contrary to the official autopsy) — is a violation of Twitter’s community rules and terms of service. An ordinary user like me would be banished from the platform for such a tweet but I am only asking that these tweets be removed.

I am now angry as well as frustrated and grieved. I understand that Twitter’s policies about content are designed to maintain the appearance that your hands are clean you provide the platform and the rest is up to users. However, in certain past cases, Twitter has removed content and accounts that are inconsistent with your terms of service.

I’m asking you to intervene in this instance because the President of the United States has taken something that does not belong to him — the memory of my dead wife — and perverted it for perceived political gain. I would also ask that you consider Lori’s niece and two nephews who will eventually come across this filth in the future. They have never met their Aunt and it pains me to think they would ever have to “learn” about her this way.

My wife deserves better.

Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Timothy J. Klausutis, Ph.D.

Scarbarough’s on-air co-host and real life wife Mika Brzezinski has been vigorously attacking Trump for his outlandish tweets, as well as imploring Twitter to delete them. Last week, she said that a phone call between her and Jack Dorsey was being set up:

“Donald, you’re a sick person. You’re a sick person, to put this family through this, to put her husband through this, to do this just because you’re mad at Joe, because Joe got you again today,” she said. “Because he speaks the truth, and he speaks plainly about your lack of interest and empathy in others and your lack of ability to handle this massive human catastrophe, the fact that you have made it worse and you make it worse every day. And that you won’t even wear a mask to protect people from your germs.”

Brzezinski said Twitter should not be allowing the tweets and that they should be taken down. “You will be hearing from me on this, because this is B.S.” she said. She later tweeted at Dorsey, “@jack At what point is @Twitter a part of this? TAKE DOWN TRUMP’s ACCOUNT— the world world be safer. Retweet if you agree.”

Today Twitter responded to requests that President Trump’s tweets be deleted, saying that they did not violate its terms of service:

Twitter spokesperson told Mediaite, “We are deeply sorry about the pain these statements, and the attention they are drawing, are causing the family.”

“We’ve been working to expand existing product features and policies so we can more effectively address things like this going forward, and we hope to have those changes in place shortly,” they added.

For your information, Twitter rules on abusive behavior are here:

Abuse/harassment: You may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so. This includes wishing or hoping that someone experiences physical harm.

In order to facilitate healthy dialogue on the platform, and empower individuals to express diverse opinions and beliefs, we prohibit behavior that harasses or intimidates, or is otherwise intended to shame or degrade others. In addition to posing risks to people’s safety, abusive behavior may also lead to physical and emotional hardship for those affected.

I would like to know the process that Twitter went through to arrive at the conclusion they did. I would also like to see Twitter rules applied equally to all of its users.

Mostly, I am just so sorry for the pain that Mr. Klausutis, a private citizen, is needlessly experiencing because the President of the United States is such an abysmal individual.

[Ed. Do not attempt to defend Trump’s tweets in the post are indefensible. However, commenter Appalled suggests that it would be instructive to see people attempt to defend all the collateral damage, so comments are open.]

–Dana

212 Responses to “Trump Recklessly Pushes Debunked Conspiracy Theory in Series of Obscene Tweets”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. Don’t defend Trump? This will be a quiet thread.

    Leviticus (b3a900)

  3. T-rump is a scuzzy person (I won’t say “man”). I can understand people voting for him out of desperation. But that’s the only reason.

    Supporting him now is inexcusable.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  4. This spectacle of depravity is staged for the titillation and gratification of his cultists.

    What does it say about them?

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. Rules only matter if you aren’t important enough to flout them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  6. Dana,

    I understand your policy. But it would have been instructive to see people attempt to defend all the collateral damage.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  7. MSNBC attempts to shame people in WI not wearing masks, local points out half the MSNBC crew not wearing masks.

    https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1265386647643918338?s=20

    This like the White House press crew taking off their masks the minute the cameras are turned off.
    __

    harkin (8f4a6f)

  8. Hm, let me think about that, Appalled.

    Dana (6cdad7)

  9. I’ve taken Appalled’s suggestion and updated the caveat at the end of the post: Trump’s tweets in the post are indefensible. However, commenter Appalled suggests that it would be instructive to see people attempt to defend all the collateral damage, so comments are open.

    Dana (0feb77)

  10. It’s fascinating how badly Trump has handled this pandemic, which destroyed the economy and killed a hundred thousand Americans, and all he can do is the same trick he’s always done, change the subject with something ugly.

    Remember what so-called ‘nevertrumpers’ warned would happen if Trump were nominated, how the nation would react sharply. It’s coming.

    Imagine the president in a period of crisis and economic disaster, tweeting like a mean girl to try to muddy up someone who didn’t worship him. Just sitting in the oval office chuckling at his phone, retweeting idiots, getting red in the face, trolling.

    MSNBC attempts to shame people in WI not wearing masks, local points out half the MSNBC crew not wearing masks.

    Yeah imagine how bad a GOP president would have to be to make MSNBC seem more presidential and patriotic. Yet here we are.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  11. MSNBC attempts to shame people in WI not wearing masks, local points out half the MSNBC crew not wearing masks.

    Even if true, your link doesn’t actually show that, but even if true, the vast majority of people there were not following a single guideline. No social distance, no large gathering, not wearing masks. How would one other person not wearing a mask, make the fact that people weren’t wearing a mask less true?

    I don’t think you understand why precautions exist. Not just for Covid, but seatbelts, hand washing, picking your nose in public…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  12. 12. Well Colonel, sir, you can take your shame and shove it squarely up your retired kiester.

    *salute*

    Gryph (08c844)

  13. White House condemns MSNBC for not being the leader the nation needs and doesn’t have amid this confused and difficult time.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  14. 12. Well Colonel, sir, you can take your shame and shove it squarely up your retired kiester.

    And you can take your carelessness, selfishness and irresponsibility and cram it sideways right up your unemployed narcissism.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  15. 15. I’ll remember that the next time you’re out-and-about during seasonal flu season without any PPE, Dr. Raggy.

    Gryph (08c844)

  16. Yeah imagine how bad a GOP president would have to be to make MSNBC seem more presidential and patriotic. Yet here we are.

    Look at Mike DeWine, he’s by no means anything but an extremely conservative Republican, yet he’s responded appropriately, and he’s getting the Trump-bot treatment about him being a “socialist” etc.

    Trump has made competence into a weakness to his “basket of deplorables”. Trump’s a moron, he tweets delusions, and his “sheeple” believe it. Things like he’s a successful businessman, like he’s not a dumb@$$, that he’s “getting good reviews” for his covid response, like Scarborough had something to do with a girls death from a thousand miles away.

    If twitter had any…intestinal fortitude, they’d just ban Trump since he’s flaunted all of their rules and standards. He’s flouted the rules, they’ve given him hundreds of opportunities a day to improve, he’s failed, they should drop the ban hammer.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  17. No, Moana. You won’t. But if you did, what would you do?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  18. Well Colonel, sir, you can take your shame and shove it squarely up your retired kiester.

    Look, since I’m paying you to sit at home on your butt, the least you could do is wear your mask when you go out to spend my money.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  19. Well, like I said, Trump’s tweets are indefensible. And judging by the lack of demonstrated effort to defend them by our regular Trump-supporting commenters here, I’m guessing they agree too. And for that, I’m glad.

    Dana (0feb77)

  20. They are indefensible, Dana. It sucks that I have to choose between a despicable grandstander who has some good policies and judges, and a doddering plagiarist panderer who seems to have lost whatever moderate convictions he once had.

    norcal (a5428a)

  21. Comparing the tweets to the quoted policies, I think they don’t violate the policies. Which is therefore a failure of Twitter policy, to not protect the real victims, Mrs. Klausutis’s family.

    Kishnevi (fe0b52)

  22. It was probably a mistake to say that Biden has convictions. He goes where the wind blows. Has his whole career.

    norcal (a5428a)

  23. While I support you conclusion, Dana, I cannot support your result.

    I won’t be voting for any Republican or Democrat this year, nor will I be voting for a Libertarian.

    There’s no one to vote for, but there are many to vote against.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Y987Uf1wY

    The Republican Party broke me heart. The Democratic Party never had mine. The Libertarian Party was always a consideration, but not this year.

    So, I’m going to vote against every incumbent. That’s my basic political philosphopy. Vote against the incumbent.

    There are only two kinds of people who get involved in politics. The truly committed and the totally corrupt.

    Make your you decision now.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  24. My rule in elections in which I don’t know much about the candidates is to vote for the one who advertises less and otherwise seems to be spending less money.

    Kishnevi (fe0b52)

  25. Washington Examiner
    @dcexaminer
    ·

    Whitmer’s family life has come under scrutiny after @GovWhitmer’s husband tried to use his standing as ‘first gentleman’ to try and get his boat put in the water before Memorial Day.
    __ _

    Washington Examiner
    @dcexaminer
    .
    @GovWhitmer claims her husband traveled to the family’s second home to “rake leaves.”
    _ _

    James Hasson
    @JamesHasson20
    ·
    I was reliably informed that gardening was a nonessential activity in Michigan.

    _

    harkin (79562f)

  26. Mr Hasson’s information is actually unreliable, as was pointed out at the time Whitmer issued the order he was referring to.

    But why let facts get in the way of a snark?

    Kishnevi (fe0b52)

  27. While I support you conclusion, Dana, I cannot support your result.

    Sorry, GG, I’m slow on the draw these days. What do you mean?

    Dana (0feb77)

  28. Joe and mika have called trump every name in the booK:

    traitor, Russian spy, thief, liar, racist, Neo-nazi, rapist, and even attacked Trump’s son and wife.

    Now, I’m supposed to get upset when they get a taste of their own medicine? No can do. Nor do I appreciate a media talking head demanding the President of the United States be censored for acting “mean” toward her and her adulterous husband.

    rcocean (846d30)

  29. Trump is not “traficking in conspiracy theories”. He’s pointing out that the interns death was suspicious and that maybe Joe was having an affair with her. Getting holier than thou over this is laughable. Joe and mika peddled a fake Russia-Trump conspiracy for 3 years.

    rcocean (846d30)

  30. Ronna McDaniel
    @GOPChairwoman
    ·
    We just secured a major concession from Newsom on his election power grab.

    In a reversal, CA’s SOS just promised to NOT send ballots to inactive voters.

    Now they should clean up their active rolls, because 5% of voters in Imperial, Fresno, & LA counties are dead or moved away…

    ……. Mailing ballots to inactive voters is a recipe for disaster.

    Just look at NV, where live ballots are piling up in the streets.

    Ballot harvesting (which CA already has) is equally troubling and Democrats are trying to nationalize it.

    https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1265377797402439687?s=20
    _

    harkin (79562f)

  31. …I spoke too soon.

    Dana (0feb77)

  32. Look, since I’m paying you to sit at home on your butt, the least you could do is wear your mask when you go out to spend my money

    Colonel Karen!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. traitor, Russian spy, thief, liar, racist, Neo-nazi, rapist

    That’s called accurate reporting.

    and even attacked Trump’s son and wife

    No they didn’t.

    After Trump posted this vile insult on June 29:

    “I heard poorly rated Morning Joe speaks badly of me (don’t watch anymore). Then how come low I.Q. Crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year’s Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!”

    In a magazine interview, the next day, Mika was asked:

    On the show, you mentioned how you know Melania Trump. Her campaign as the First Lady surrounds cyber bullying…

    And she replied:

    I know Melania. I haven’t talked to her in months, but if my gut is right, I don’t think she’s going to put up with it much longer. I know nothing. That’s just my instinct and I go with my gut and my gut’s always right. I’m just telling you, Melania’s got the worst job in the country and I don’t think she wants do it a lot longer. I think she will do it for as long as she has to for her son, and that’s it.

    That is hardly an attack on Trump’s son and wife.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. rcocean,

    Can you post a link to where Scarborough called Trump a rapist and neo-Nazi? I am unable to find said link.

    Dana (0feb77)

  35. Trump is only the little yellow tip of the pustule. The pus is his supporters.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. Of course it doesn’t matter what Scarborough or his wife said about Trump. They are just pundits. Trump is seated in the most powerful position in the world. And the bottom line is, nothing justifies publicly causing pain to a private citizen who has already walked through the grief of losing his wife. That the President of the United States chose to self-servingly rip open up an old wound because he’s holding a massive grudge against a pundit is a form of abuse, Twitter’s decision notwithstanding. Nothing, absolutely nothing excuses this, no matter what.

    Dana (0feb77)

  37. Joe and mika peddled a fake Russia-Trump conspiracy for 3 years.

    LOL.

    To: Donald Trump Jr.

    Good morning

    Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.

    What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

    I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

    From: Donald Trump Jr.

    Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. Ask yourself, rcocean, why Trump ascribes so much power to Joe Scarborough anyway? Why would he care what a two-bit pundit thinks or says about him? Of course what’s interesting, is that he sure loved the attention Scarborough lavished on him in airtime in the run-up to the election, eh?

    Dana (0feb77)

  39. He’s pointing out that the interns death was suspicious and that maybe Joe was having an affair with her.

    If her death were “suspicious”, the ME would have concluded so. It’s pretty basic: If you make an serious assertion such as accusing an American citizen of murder, then it’s on you to back it up.
    It would be a good policy for Twitter to not ban his tweets, but add fact-checking links to them, like they did with his lies about mail-in balloting.
    And here’s another question: Where’s Ted Cruz? Trump accused Cruz’s dad of assassinating JFK. This would be an opportune moment to criticize his president for trafficking in this lie of a conspirary theory, and it wouldn’t hurt to note that Trump has falsely accused a lot of people of murder.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  40. Ask yourself, rcocean, why Trump ascribes so much power to Joe Scarborough anyway? Why would he care what a two-bit pundit thinks or says about him?

    He doesn’t.

    This is just blood-sport entertainment for his depraved, morally-bankrupt knob-polishers.

    It’s the 21st century equivalent of throwing innocent Christians to lions in the Colosseum.

    Dave (1bb933)

  41. Joe and mika have called trump every name in the booK:
    traitor, Russian spy, thief, liar, racist, Neo-nazi, rapist, and even attacked Trump’s son and wife.

    Well, Trump is a thief, liar, racist and neo-Nazi adjacent, and 25 women have come forward to complain of his sexual misconduct.
    Joe and Mika have not attacked Barron Trump, which would be out of bounds, but they have verbally attacked Trump’s wife and his adult kids who are in the political arena, which is in bounds, just like it was okay to criticize the adult Chelsea Clinton.
    I don’t know if Joe and Mika called Trump a “traitor” and “Russian spy”. You should show your work.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  42. Oh, and I forgot to mention that Trump’s accusing others of murder is a Big Deflection from the fact that the blood of thousands of Americans is on his hands for his gross mishandling of CV19.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  43. I see Haiku still hasn’t figured out what “Karen” is and yet still insists on using it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  44. 19. I haven’t taken a single thin red cent in unemployment, Colonel Sir. And I started my new job this week. Concern troll’s concern is noted, Colonel Karen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  45. I haven’t taken a single thin red cent in unemployment, Colonel Sir. And I started my new job this week. Concern troll’s concern is noted, Colonel Karen.

    Does your new employer know that you plan to put them, and their customers, at risk because you can’t be inconvenienced?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  46. We only have Gryph’s word for anything he asserts. Word to the wise.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  47. Release teh KARENs…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  48. 48. I wouldn’t work at any place that requires a mask, Colonel Karen, Sir. I think since I am not working at a nursing home or a meatpacking plant, my customers will be perfectly capable of informed consent.

    Gryph (08c844)

  49. For those unclear about why I seem so cavalier, I think it’s worth reminding the Karens out there that I’m from South Dakota, possibly one of the last bastions of anything vaguely resembling political sanity. And no, we have not had an “explosion” of coronavirus cases up here.

    Gryph (08c844)

  50. I wouldn’t work at any place that requires a mask, Colonel Karen, Sir. I think since I am not working at a nursing home or a meatpacking plant, my customers will be perfectly capable of informed consent.

    So you will be wearing a sign around that informs people within six feet of you that you do not believe in taking simple precautions, and specifically verbalizing the warning? I don’t think you understand what informed consent means.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. Oh, hey! When I think of South Dakota, the first thing that leaps to mind is “political sanity”. Just look at our representative in Gryph!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  52. I was trying to recall the last intelligent thing that Haiku contributed in any thread.

    Nada…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  53. @38

    Of course it doesn’t matter what Scarborough or his wife said about Trump. They are just pundits. Trump is seated in the most powerful position in the world. And the bottom line is, nothing justifies publicly causing pain to a private citizen who has already walked through the grief of losing his wife. That the President of the United States chose to self-servingly rip open up an old wound because he’s holding a massive grudge against a pundit is a form of abuse, Twitter’s decision notwithstanding. Nothing, absolutely nothing excuses this, no matter what.

    Dana (0feb77) — 5/26/2020 @ 5:47 pm

    I won’t defend Trump on this one.

    Nor will I defend Trump for things like that horrid treatment of that Gold Star family at DNC convention during the ’16 election.

    He’s an a**hole.

    This isn’t new…even by the people who votes for him (and even vigorously support him)…this won’t lead people to change their minds.

    The sad reality here is that voters don’t care about character and personality with regards to Trump. Trump is there to upset the status quo. That’s what his voters wanted…and they went with it with eyes WIDE open. Everyone *knows* what they’re getting from a Trump presidency and he has (and will!) do detestable things like this. However, he will be re-elected based on the policies he implemented vs what Biden administration would bring.

    It’s going to be a 2016 redux. (and Democrats dun F’ed this up with Biden!)

    However, I have empathy for the family of the deceased. Trump is simply wrong here.

    I have ZERO sympathy for Mika and Joe. No one, and I mean no one, push Trump hard during the GOP primary than those two jerkwads. We really could’ve had any other GOP candidate, and I was a Cruz/Rubio supporter (voted for the stoner in 2016 in the end).

    They made their bed… now they get to wallow in the muck along with Trump.

    Good.

    whembly (c30c83)

  54. They do NOT embarrass easy…

    https://twitter.com/Shem_Infinite/status/1264983078759514113

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  55. For those unclear about why I seem so cavalier, I think it’s worth reminding the Karens out there that I’m from South Dakota, possibly one of the last bastions of anything vaguely resembling political sanity. And no, we have not had an “explosion” of coronavirus cases up here.

    Well, it’s good that there’s no roads that go to South Dakota, no activities that accelerate during the summer months, where tourists from all over the country travel there.

    It’s just bizarre that all of those tourists that don’t go there in the winter, didn’t go there in the winter to spread it in the winter. Weird.

    Since it hasn’t yet been highly impacted, that obviously means there’s a magic dome over it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  56. @36, I’ll answer for him. No, He cannot provide a link.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  57. Thanks, pierre… then it passes the smell test, I’m doing something right.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  58. Well, we’ll agree you smell…according to any test.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  59. Now, I’m supposed to get upset when they get a taste of their own medicine? No can do. Nor do I appreciate a media talking head demanding the President of the United States be censored for acting “mean” toward her and her adulterous husband.

    The Scarbarough clan is more than capable of defending themselves, which, I think, is why you chose to talk about them instead of the Klausutis family, whom Trump is repeatedly, sadistically messing with for his own gain.

    Much easier to try to forget there’s a real, innocent family out there for whom Donnie’s tantrum is an open wound and keep it all in TV-land, eh? A messy relationship between the two seems to be a problem Trumpy superfans have in general.

    john (cd2753)

  60. 22. Kishnevi (fe0b52) — 5/26/2020 @ 4:53 pm

    Comparing the tweets to the quoted policies, I think they don’t violate the policies.

    They would if this could be considered personal harassment of Joe Scarborough. It probably hasn’t gone on long enough for that.

    There is a problem with deleting it, and no particular benefit. The tweets will fade into the background, and deleting them would have something of a Streisand effect. It is not going to stop Lori’s niece and two nephews from finding out about this. This has been going on, he writes, since the day she died.

    Lori Kaye Klausutis’ family is pained by this kind of nonsense, which, because Trump has suggested she was engaged in an affair, also reflects on her husband, and her family, in some way, (because such things, if true, do – as her widower writes, it disparages the memory of his wife and their marriage) and also for not pursuing her “murder.”

    But they are not the target. What her family needs is a kind of reassurance that nobody – or nobody whose opinion is worth anything – believes this. Arbitrarily removing the tweets doesn’t do that.

    This tweet is now part of the historical record.

    And if they did remove it on grounds of falsity, someone like Seymour Durst could also ask for this. If we say the accused cannot get accusations deleted, relatives of people who may have been murdered by totalitarian governments could also ask for that. Relatives of people murdered by gangs could be intimidated into asking for that.

    They become the truth police, and, inevitably, would get things wrong, even if they were doing their best to be fair and honest. Is this Twitter’s job? Is this a job anyone can do?

    And then they might pay attention to how expensive is the lawyer who writes to them.

    Still, actually there are some possibilities. The tweet could be marked in some way as unreliable, and the value of the mark wold depend on what else they did the same thing to.

    Or perhaps Twitter could allow someone who wanted a tweet removed or maybe half hidden, to hold atrial, with the jury being taken from long time Twitter users with a 2/3 or 3/4 majority being needed to remove. Unanimous verdicts leave too much room for a bad juror.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  61. There has been a constant barrage of falsehoods, half-truths, innuendo and conspiracy theories since the day she died. I realize that may sound like an exaggeration, unfortunately it is the verifiable truth

    Digresion: Who started this?

    Reporters looking for a scoop? Friends of Gary Condit?? Democrats who wanted a Congressman from the other party to be also accused of murdering a woman? Chandra Levy disappeared May 1, 2001, and this death happened July 20 or 21, 2001.

    You could think that it possibly didn’t help matters that Joe Scarbourough resigned from Congress after her death, but Joe Scarborough had already announced his intention to resign on May 25. He made it effective September 6, allowing a special election to be scheduled shortly after his resignation took effect, on October 16.

    According to Wikipedia, he gave as his reason to spend more time with his children. It might be that his political career wasn’t going anywhere, and he found the job too hard and time consuming. He had back pain from a fall, and subsequent surgery. He had already said he’d be very surprised if he ran in 2002.

    End of digression.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  62. Lightsabers drawn; sparks fly.

    Star Wars … flash-bang escapism; pure, distracting entertainment at it’s best, eh, Donald?

    You do know your audience, Captain, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. John @ 62,

    Well said. It’s significantly worse that Mr. Klausutis is a private citizen who was essentially forced to plead with Dorsey to take down the tweets. I am a very private person, and can’t imagine what it would be like to grieve the loss of a spouse privately, only to later have to relive that grief publicly because a sick and deranged individual with a massive platform from which to spout off, didn’t care one bit about the collateral damage from his petty squabble. And how much worse that it was the President of the United States who egregiously tore open the wound.

    Dana (0feb77)

  64. Lori’s family did maybe get it removed from Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Joe_Scarborough

    At one point apparently, (this was in 2014, and it was also thought Joe Scarborough mght run for president) there was something about Scarborough having “joked about the incident with Don Imus on Imus’s radio program”. But no link.

    One person writes on the talk page:

    There was a long debate that ended with Jimbo weighing in. Some editors went so far as to create a bio page for the person that died. It went so far that the family of the aide asked that her name not be mentioned as it was accidental and occored from a medical condition. Scarborough was actually in DC at the time. The Scarborough story was a tit-for-tat response to Chandra Levy and Gary Condit which was on going at the same time. The smear was stopped and the name of the aide was not mentioned, her bio deleted out of common decency to the family that didn’t want to become fodder for political games. To the extent that there was a lot of baseless accusations is a matter of record. The name is immaterial. –06:54, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

    This person actually says it started because of Gary Condit. But this is not a hard fact.

    JOe Scarborough, by the way, might be the person Donald Trump said he knew whose son supposedly got autism from a vaccine.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  65. There is a problem with the cornoner.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article308205/Former-area-medical-examiner-charged-with-keeping-body-parts-in-storage-unit.html

    Berkland worked at the District 1 medical examiner’s office in Pensacola from 1997 to 2003, when he was fired for not completing autopsy reports. Berkland’s license to serve as a medical examiner in Florida has been withdrawn.

    So he wasn’t necessarily accurate.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  66. The joke with Don Imus was not about this specific incident, and was about an intern, which she was not. That was in 2003. Just something off color aooarebtly. It was apparently connected to this by people looking for some kind of proof.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  67. Not sure this Berkland was the person who worked on this death.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  68. Yees he was.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/florida-family-grieves-as-trump-spreads-debunked-conspiracy-theory-to-attack-msnbc-host/2020/05/24/8a0a45a6-9dcd-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html

    But the medical examiner coming up with a faulty explanation of her death (let’s say it was faulty) doesn’t mean she was murdered. Still less by Scarborough, who wasn’t there.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  69. Demanding censorship of speech you don’t like is reckless. Demanding preemptive censorship in this circumstance is immoral. Pretending it’s ok because there are other outlets is dishonest. Pretending it’s ok because a corporation is doing it brings us back to reckless. Doing it a few days after Memorial Day is ironic and disrespectful.

    frosty (f27e97)

  70. Demanding censorship of speech you don’t like is reckless. Demanding preemptive censorship in this circumstance is immoral. Pretending it’s ok because there are other outlets is dishonest. Pretending it’s ok because a corporation is doing it brings us back to reckless. Doing it a few days after Memorial Day is ironic and disrespectful.

    He’s already done it, so what’s preemptive? He has a history of this, maybe you forget Seth Rich.

    Also, maybe you should ask Trump about Memorial Day, he’s the one posting this garbage. And how does a corporation exercising the rights that have been granted them since before the founding of the country reckless? They’d not be the first, or millionth, to do it.

    Methinks it’s because it’s Trump is doing it that you are making silly excuses.

    Plus plus, Trump has broken Twitter’s TOS more than 1,000’s of times. Trump might as well be a Russian bot, heck, they’re probably slightly less trollish.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  71. If Scarborough was not a “public figure”, he would probably be able to sue successfully for libel.

    Kishnevi (165c19)

  72. https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/lori-klausutis-cause-of-death-how-die

    The door was unlocked so she probably died before the scheduled closing at 5 pm Thursday, She was found at 8 am by the first people who had an appointment Friday. You can make up arguments as to why she could have stayed after 5 pm and the door was unlocked. No sign of a struggle, nothing stolen, and there should be nothing important there to steal. The other person who worked in the office was on vacation/ Someone talked t er Thursday afternoon but before 5 pm.

    She had reported not feeling well to another aide. (when>) The hairline fracture on her skull is not the sort that would come from a blunt instrument. She hasn’t been diagnosed with anything but Berklabd said she had an abnormal heart rhythm and fainted. He must have been guessing.

    Berkland claimed that “She had a past medical history that was significant,” but nothing has surfaced in public that would have any connection. Her husband now says it was an undiagnosed heart condition, Berkland at the time attributed the death to an acute subdural hematoma, considering the suppposed heart condition to be not fatal. He said she had made no attempt to break her fall according to an examination of her hands, and that she suffered from a “floppy mitral valve” in her heart. Berkland probably found the bruise later but claimed he had deliberately hid that from the press so as to avoid speculation. toxicology reports apparently found nothing and her family rejected suicide as an explanation

    She was a jogger.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  73. 73. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/26/2020 @ 9:08 pm

    Trump might as well be a Russian bot, heck, they’re probably slightly less trollish.

    Some people think Trump or asupporter (he;s not skilled enough) is QAnon but I think it’s a Democrat.

    ecauseL

    According to Q Anon

    1. Trump is always the good guy, but he is going to win anyway, with help from insiders. Translation: None of you Trump fans need to do anything.

    2. The details are absurd: Reason: So that Trump fans will not convert anyone. Also this reduces the possibility of any of that backfiring.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  74. 53. Any blithering Karen moron can see for themselves I’m not wearing a mask. If the cowards wish to avoid me on that basis, they are more than welcome to.

    Gryph (08c844)

  75. EXCLUSIVE – MUST CREDIT DAVE:

    My investigation has uncovered shocking evidence that Fort Walton Beach is a lot closer to Mar-A-Lago than it is to Washington DC.

    Can Donald Trump account for his whereabouts on the days in question?

    What about his sons Uday and Qusay?

    Dave (1bb933)

  76. Any blithering Karen moron can see for themselves I’m not wearing a mask. If the cowards wish to avoid me on that basis, they are more than welcome to.

    Did you just discover tiktok or something? Karen has been a thing for years, it’s like your an 11 year old boy who just discovered 5318008.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  77. You know, I considered saying something similar to that, Dave, but I found that I agreed wholeheartedly with Dana’s first sentence and John at 62. There’s an innocent family involved and they’re the ones who matter. Not some orange degenerate who never misses a chance to be degenerate, and not the two TV entertainers he’s putting on his show with.

    nk (1d9030)

  78. I guess you’re right, nk.

    And if Trump went on The Right View and confessed tomorrow, his cultists would shrug it off like they do everything else.

    Dave (1bb933)

  79. . There’s an innocent family involved and they’re the ones who matter. Not some orange degenerate who never misses a chance to be degenerate, and not the two TV entertainers he’s putting on his show with.

    nk (1d9030) — 5/26/2020 @ 9:37 pm

    The TV show will have to act like they hate this but they are not victims here at all The leader of the free world is attacking them and losing. I bet they are selling plenty of ads, laughing in their meetings, and then donning sober expressions in public. The real victim of this nonsense is definitely the family that’s grieving all over again.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  80. Trump is not “traficking (sic) in conspiracy theories”.

    The only times Trump doesn’t traffic in conspiracy theories is when he tells bold-faced lies.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  81. “A lot of interest in this story.” “I would think there is a lot more to this story than that?” “An affair? Maybe or maybe not.” “So many unanswered & obvious questions, but I won’t bring them up now!”

    Weaponizing gossip. He has been doing this for decades. He just doesn’t need the National Enquirer now.

    A little birdie told me. Tweet Tweet.

    noel (4d3313)

  82. Well, I said it would be instructive to see people defend Trump in this instance and they did. All of Trump’s defenders ignored the idea of collateral damage to non-public figures. We never heard an honest “you have to break some eggs to make an omelette.” All we got was a Joe and Mika deserve it response. Anybody else and their feelings are non-persons.

    I imagine this played out in the Daily Kos much the same way back in the day.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  83. Any comrade who cannot see difference between Joe Biden’s verbal gaffes and Trump’s deranged rants is comrade who cannot see difference between common cold and Covid-19.

    nk (1d9030)

  84. 79. I’m pretty sure I’m at least as smart as someone who thinks that a virus with a 99.8% survival rate is the end of the world as we know it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  85. and then the good doc, does he look like dexter morgan, was fired and jailed for trafficking in body parts, there would seem to be a story there, but since youre all in with sweeney todd cuomo,
    bathory whitmer, renfield murphy, maybe not,

    narciso (7404b5)

  86. if you missed the point, sweeney todd immunized the nursing homes against lawsuits, secretly, a diktat he doesn’t grant every business, it would have been more honest if the lesbian had been elected, she doesn’t have an idiot brother who infects the whole gold coast

    narciso (7404b5)

  87. Gryph, are you smart enough to understand the difference between the 0.2% you’ve claimed and the 5.9% that’s been observed?

    Time123 (daab2f)

  88. 90. 5.9% is the mortality rate for people who get sick. .17%, give or take, is the mortality rate for people who actually test positive for the virus. This tells me that my chance of actually getting sick in the first place is small enough that I choose not to put my life on hold for something that probably won’t happen. As always, YMMV, Karens.

    Gryph (08c844)

  89. Here’s an interesting lede:

    As the mortality figures for COVID-19 continued to rise, people are wondering where they will stop. The actual death toll for COVID-19 won’t be calculable for some time, but there are early indications that it may be significantly lower than calculations of deaths per confirmed cases lead one to believe.

    Gryph (08c844)

  90. Can he get away with this just because he couches slander in innuendo and inquiry? Come on guys. There have got to be some lawyers here that would love to take those billions from him.

    noel (4d3313)

  91. There are many interesting articles about Donald Trump and Roy Cohn. I would think there would be a lot more to their story than that? An affair? Maybe or maybe not. So many unanswered & obvious questions, but I won’t bring them up now! I will say that maybe the NYPD should consider opening a cold case on the unsolved murders of teenage male prostitutes in New York City between 1971 and 1986.

    nk (1d9030)

  92. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/26/2020 @ 9:08 pm

    He’s already done it, so what’s preemptive? He has a history of this, maybe you forget Seth Rich.

    Calls for him to be banned from the platform are preemptive and that is what Mika, and others, are calling for.

    Also, maybe you should ask Trump about Memorial Day, he’s the one posting this garbage.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right and my comment wasn’t about Trump. It was about creeping fascism and the love of corporate censorship.

    And how does a corporation exercising the rights that have been granted them since before the founding of the country reckless? They’d not be the first, or millionth, to do it.

    This is one of the common hedges every time this comes up. It seems like a private corporation is doing what you claim by allowing the content. Mika and her fellow travelers are the ones demanding censorship. As far as time-honored traditions go, private corporations used to be able to refuse service based on race. They used to be able to employ children. They used to be able to operate in all sorts of unsafe ways that we don’t allow anymore. This resort to some sort of pure libertarianism for this specific situation when it suits a viewpoint is obvious and dishonest. Censorship is censorship and petty little fascists are going to want to be petty big fascists. It’s perfectly reasonable and moral to ask and expect a corporation to respect free speech and we have a consistent history of doing just that. If this were a call for twitter to censor LGBTQ, BLM, or any one of dozens of other comments this would rightly be called out. In fact, if that happened, I’d expect the very same people making this “private corporation” argument to be saying this was unconstitutional and calling for the government to get involved.

    Methinks it’s because it’s Trump is doing it that you are making silly excuses.

    And this is another one of the common hedges every time this comes up. The whole point of defending free speech is that you have to do it when it’s unpopular. Speech everyone approves of doesn’t need defending. I’ve been consistently pro-free speech here and this doesn’t have anything to do with Trump. You’ll notice I didn’t defend anything he said. Methinks it is because Trump that you’re defending censorship.

    Plus plus, Trump has broken Twitter’s TOS more than 1,000’s of times. Trump might as well be a Russian bot, heck, they’re probably slightly less trollish.

    Speaking of reckless conspiracy theories.

    frosty (f27e97)

  93. The overall mortality rate for people diagnosed with coronavirus is over 4%, and closer to 5%, Gryph. In New York City, it got up to 10%.

    nk (1d9030)

  94. Gryph, If you’re not to busy worrying that a mask will make you feel like less of a man can provide a link to the .17% you sited?

    Time123 (daab2f)

  95. 96. New York City was a special case, as the way they handled dumping patients into nursing homes might as well have been homicide. And by “overall” mortality rate, you are using the number of total diagnosed cases (including recoveries) as the denominator. As most people who have the virus don’t get sick, that is extremely misleading.

    Also, let’s not forget that people who die of causes other than CoViD-19 are listed among those total cases. There have been documented cases of people dying of alcohol poisoning and other completely unrelated causes that are then added to these total cases that add to this phantom denominator. If the number of cases your source is citing is suspect, the whole argument that I am being selfish and stupid kind of falls apart, Karen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  96. Could a newspaper like the Washington Post or New York Times get away with what Trump is doing to Scarborough? Serious question. He is President of the United States with a viewership/readership of many millions of people on Twitter and elsewhere.

    And what did the likes of David Pecker do on his behalf in the good ol’ days… besides “catch and kill”?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    noel (4d3313)

  97. 97. Well, Karen, it’s right here. And I was wrong. The figure for crude mortality rate (CMR) as of May 1 (and it’s tracked monthly; these are the best numbers I could find) is actually .28 percent. And I think those figures are just for New York.

    Gryph (08c844)

  98. There’s also this. Higher than what I cited, but nowhere near 5.9%.

    Gryph (08c844)

  99. Time123 (daab2f) — 5/27/2020 @ 6:33 am

    Gryph, are you smart enough to understand the difference between the 0.2% you’ve claimed and the 5.9% that’s been observed?

    I’m not 100% confident of the 0.2% or the 5.9% numbers and I’m reluctant to make arguments based on them. For example, the numbers out of NY are as sketchy as the ones we’ve been seeing from China. The 5.9% is based on confirmed cases so it might be a better measure of testing than virulence and even that is sketchy given the lag between testing positive and dying. I see a lot of unadjusted numbers being thrown around. Things not adjusted per capita to make claims that should be adjusted per capita. Things not adjusted for lag to make claims related to timing.

    COVID is going the route of global warming. It’s a real thing but people with agendas have created a situation where it’s not clear what is going on.

    frosty (f27e97)

  100. Gryph, I wanted to apologize for the comment about you feeling less manly. I was sort of joking around but there’s no way for that to come through and without the cue it’s just a personal insult.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  101. #95

    Frosty, free speech does not require a host to post everything written. You know that. Twitter can do what it wants to, and everyone has the free speech right to push twitter to ban Trump, just because.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  102. 102. That’s pretty much my take on it, Frosty. There’s not a lot that I’m absolutely certain about where CoViD-19 is concerned, but if I’m going to err, it’s going to be on the side of living. And if some people think that makes me a terrible human being? Oh well. My conscience is clear.

    One thing I am certain about is that there are credentialed “experts” out there pushing an agenda contra the principles I’ve embraced and expressed my entire adult life. It’s “selfish” in the sense that pushing for one’s own freedom could be considered selfish, but I’ve defended people doing dumb things before.

    Gryph (08c844)

  103. In today’s unhinged wannabe-fascist rant, the Great Leader threatened to “strongly regulate” or shut down Twitter for flagging two of his tweets with fact-check links.

    Republicans feel that Social Media Platforms totally silence conservatives voices. We will strongly regulate, or close them down, before we can ever allow this to happen.
    – Comrade General Secretary Trump

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. If they would acknowledge for than a milisecond that ferguson was a fraud so was murray and the flatline stemmed from that.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  105. Frosty, The 5.9% is the number of people who die after getting the disease. I think the data being reported out of NYC is honest, but there could of course be errors. Either way, these measure complex outcomes and can’t be taken as a straight measure of the disease itself. They also include the medical infrastructure and administration.

    Measuring the chance of getting infected is also hard because of the environmental factors like weather, density, human behavior and exposure to the virus.

    All that said, I don’t think the data lends itself to precise conclusions yet. That’s not the same thing as saying we don’t know anything, but there’s some uncertainty in all of this.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  106. Twatter is a cess pool, and T-rump is the King Turd that floats in it.

    As to suing him for defamation, I think it is possible given the example of Carol Burnette’s case.

    Sullivan makes defamation harder, but not impossible for a slug like the Orange Raccoon.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  107. It’s “selfish” in the sense that pushing for one’s own freedom could be considered selfish, but I’ve defended people doing dumb things before.

    Always the hero in his own little mind play, like any narcissist. And so often ready to “misrepresent the truth” to enhance his heroism!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  108. 110. You don’t know what the truth is any more than the CDC does, Karen. Go home.

    Gryph (08c844)

  109. Ask kavanaugh or sandmann about the gatekeeper media theyll have a wry chuckle

    Narciso (7404b5)

  110. Ask george zimmerman where he can get his reputation back,

    Narciso (7404b5)

  111. I know that Moana’s gawd-given rights were never trammeled by the bad, mean ol’ health code laws and regulations, and it was funny to watch you flop around like a fringe nutter with horse liniment on his nithers.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  112. Zimmerman was a nut who lost his reputation on merit, not because of the Martin incident.

    Not that that has ought to do with the topic.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  113. George Zimmerman was a pervy poofter boy wannabe mall ninja who couldn’t take on an 18-year old kid in a fistfight and had to shoot him, but it took time for me to understand that, so I don’t blame others for not having understood it yet.

    nk (1d9030)

  114. 114. Go home, Karen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  115. Noem has been the bravest in the face of this quackery that ferguson amd murray pushed.

    Narciso (ce10e9)

  116. 118. I am home.

    Do you still have a home, Moana?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  117. Rags never read anything jacobsen or even our post posted about sanford sad.

    Narciso (ce10e9)

  118. Speaking of malignant conspiracy theories, there are fringe nutters that believe that medical and health care professionals ALLLLLLLLLlllll over the world are not as bright or imformed as they are, and that a single drunk Indian discredits all CV19 death stats.

    Really! Can you believe it?

    What would T-rump be saying if the didn’t have some pros holding him back?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  119. Rags never read anything jacobsen or even our post posted about sanford sad.

    Is “unintelligible” your goal? Because you fell out of the obscure tree and hit every branch on the way down!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  120. I’m pretty sure I’m at least as smart as someone who thinks that a virus with a 99.8% survival rate is the end of the world as we know it.

    Yeah, that proves something about self belief vs reality.

    Are they taking away your “freedoms” when they require you to wear a hair net when you make my cheesesteak?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  121. Its rather clear legal insurrections branca pointed out the other fraud in that case.

    Narciso (ce10e9)

  122. 125. Still not connecting with a point, dude. Branca has said a lot of stuff.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  123. So the deflection is about Trayvon Martin today?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  124. How libel law doesnt protect anyone. I woyld focus on berkland but no body cares about the dexter morgan wannabe

    Narciso (7404b5)

  125. I’m pretty sure I’m at least as smart as someone who thinks that a virus with a 99.8% survival rate is the end of the world as we know it.

    75% survival rate. The First Horseman, Pestilence, gets one-fourth of the Earth, as do each of the other three that follow, War, Famine, and Death. (There used to be a fifth one but he left the group before it became famous.)

    nk (1d9030)

  126. 127… you CAN lead a mule to water!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. I doubt it, coronello,

    Narciso (7404b5)

  128. 127. I was all over the LI coverage of the Martin case, and pointed out (VERY unpopular) that Martin and his sweetie had screwed the pooch in lying to the judge.

    WTF has that to do with the topic?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  129. California DA launches investigation into Tara Reade testimony
    ……
    Reade, under the name Alexandra McCabe, for years testified as an expert in domestic violence cases for the California D.A.’s office. Among the issues is whether she lied about her credentials to qualify as an expert.

    “We are investigating whether Ms. McCabe gave false testimony under oath,” Monterey County Chief Assistant District Attorney Berkley Brannon told POLITICO on Tuesday.

    “We have no database or search engine to use to determine in how many cases she testified,” Brannon said. “However, that effort is ongoing.”
    …..
    Recent news reports have raised questions about Reade’s testimony under oath, including whether she falsely claimed to have completed her bachelor’s degree, gave false testimony about taking the bar exam and exaggerated her job duties in Biden’s office.

    Last week, the school where she testified to completing a bachelor’s degree, Antioch University in Seattle, confirmed to POLITICO that Reade attended for only three academic quarters and did not graduate. The university also denied Reade’s assertion she had a special arrangement with a former chancellor to credit her with an undergraduate degree under a different name.

    Seattle University Law School confirmed that Reade, under the name Alexandra McCabe, did graduate from law school. But officials wouldn’t comment on whether she had a valid undergraduate degree, which is required under the law school’s current admission standards.
    …..

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  130. Are they taking away your “freedoms” when they require you to wear a hair net when you make my cheesesteak?

    Winning hearts and minds…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. 134… no breathless “Breaking”?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. What does Hack-ew do but troll?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  133. #137-
    No, the story has been out for a while. I only put breaking when the story has just been posted. Besides, Tara Reade is quickly becoming a nobody.

    Sorry to disappoint.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  134. twitter-exec-in-charge-of-fact-checking-once-called-trump-and-his-team-actual-nazis

    giving Trump that extra 15,000 votes he needed to carry Michigan.

    nk (1d9030)

  135. North Carolina throws convention threat back at Trump and GOP
    President Donald Trump threatened Monday to pull the Republican National Convention out of North Carolina if state officials don’t roll out the red carpet soon.

    On Tuesday, those officials put the onus on national Republicans to show they can pull off a 50,000-person event safely.

    In a letter to Marcia Kelly, the president and CEO of the convention, North Carolina secretary of Health and Human Services Mandy Cohen acknowledged the president’s warning and requested a public health plan for the event.

    “The status of Covid-19 infections in our state and in the Charlotte area continues to rapidly evolve [so] it will be important to have several scenarios planned that can be deployed depending on the public health situation,” she wrote. “[M]easured and careful planning efforts are important not only to convention-goers, but also to the North Carolinians who rely on us to protect the public’s health.”
    …..
    Fueling the GOP’s angst is a perception that Cooper is unlikely to lift restrictions to accommodate them. With cases rising in the Charlotte area, Republicans say they’re skeptical that the Democratic governor will allow a mass gathering.
    …….
    Charlotte City Council member Malcolm Graham, who represents the city’s business district, called Republicans’ plans to host a fully attended convention “literally insane,” citing the number of attendees, vendors and volunteers it would require.
    ……
    “I believe it’s [overly] optimistic to think that we could actually have an event that’s identical to one we could’ve had without the virus,” said Ed Driggs, one of two Republican city council members in Charlotte. “This really is a clash between the governor … and the president. So I think the city’s position has to be, we will continue being prepared and doing what is necessary to be prepared for a convention, and it will require that that convention be conducted with state directives in effect at the time. And we’re going to have to be a little flexible.”
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  136. This morning, Mitt Romney tweeted about the Scarborough-Trump matter:

    I know Joe Scarborough. Joe is a friend of mine. I don’t know T.J. Klausutis. Joe can weather vile, baseless accusations but T.J.? His heart is breaking. Enough already.

    Also, Liz Cheney took it upon herself to criticize the president this morning. She brought it up during an interview when she was being asked about masks, not about the indefensible tweets:

    “I do think the president should stop tweeting about Joe Scarborough. We’re in the middle of a pandemic. He’s the commander in chief of this nation. And it’s causing great pain to the family of the young woman who died.”

    Dana (0feb77)

  137. And then there’s spineless House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy:

    McCarthy dodges multiple questions about whether it’s appropriate for Trump to tweet baseless accusations accusing Scarborough of murder, says he hasn’t seen the WSJ editorial blasting Trump and didn’t serve with Scarborough so doesn’t know situation.

    Just asked GOP Leader McCarthy if he really had no thoughts about Trump bringing up baseless murder accusations against Scarborough as widower grieves. “I’m in the House of Representatives. I did not serve with Scarborough, I know he left early, I don’t know anything about that.”

    Asked if Trump should stop tweeting about it, McCarthy instead discussed the GOP lawsuit against the House’s new proxy voting rules. “I’m watching today as millions of people are not able to have their voice heard” as Democrats go ahead with remote voting rules.

    It’s pretty funny when you consider that none of us serve with Scarborough either, and yet we somehow all knew about this… What a simpering, brown-nosing liar.

    Dana (0feb77)

  138. Analysis: Trump’s Conspiratorial Cruelty and Impulsive Feuding is One of Joe Biden’s Greatest 2020 Assets
    …… What the president is doing is not only wrong, gross, and plumbing the depths of public discourse; it is also harming his re-election chances. Perhaps those Trump supporters who do not agree with the former portion of that analysis will also refuse to believe the latter. That’s their prerogative, but they’re turning a blind eye to a dynamic that threatens Trump’s prospects for winning a second term. Exit polls from 2016 found that Donald Trump trounced Hillary Clinton among the many Americans who disliked both candidates, beating her by 17 points among this sizable group of voters. What about 2020?

    Unlike in 2016, when a large group of voters who disliked both Trump and Hillary Clinton broke sharply for Trump, the opposite is happening now, according to public polling and private surveys conducted by Republicans and Democrats alike…Four years later, that same group — including a mix of Bernie Sanders supporters, other Democrats, disaffected Republicans and independents — strongly prefers Biden, the polling shows. The former vice president leads Trump by more than 40 percentage points among that group, which accounts for nearly a quarter of registered voters, according to a Monmouth University poll last week.
    …..
    ……[Trump] had the advantage of facing another historically-loathed candidate four years ago. Pitted against a less-disliked, generic Democrat this round, Trump’s exhausting, outrageous comportment has a much stronger chance of eroding his electoral prospects. And in the eyes of many undecided voters, his comportment is both exhausting and outrageous. ……
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  139. Yes. The Trumphall guy is right. The more Trump and his pack reveal themselves as rabid coyotes, the better Biden’s chances get. It’s natural that they should forget, since half of them are half-demented and the other half half-wits, but last election Trump ran on a promise that he could change (himself), that he could stop being an Oompa-loompa on ‘shrooms and be a reasonable human being. That’s gone out the window.

    nk (1d9030)

  140. “Character is destiny”, as Jonah Goldberg has observed.

    T-rump as character…all bad.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. Just FYI. Anyone who comes back with the lame “I dunno what youse takin’ about. Please post a link or persuade me with evidence” will be ignored. That non-response has been popular on the internet for 20 years. Its not an argument, its a lazy, nothing-burger way of “pushing back”. And its boring.

    rcocean (846d30)

  142. …and besides, I lie a lot. So there!—RC

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  143. “Character is destiny”, as Jonah Goldberg has observed.

    Charlie 3-wives Sykes says the same thing. Who knew American and International politics all came down to whether the President has “Good Character”. Or that Never Trumper “conservatives” don’t care about “Conservatism”. Has Jonah endorsed Biden yet? He’s full of character.

    rcocean (846d30)

  144. Per Jonah:

    Trump – Bad Character
    Hillary/Bill CLinton – Not as bad Character
    Biden – Good Character
    Pelosi/Schumer – Good character
    Romney – Very good character
    McCain – Very good character
    Joe Scarborough – Very good character.

    Jonah Goldberg – what an Amazing Character.

    rcocean (846d30)

  145. Oh, I forgot. Jonah thinks Obama has “Good Character” and was very sad, when he was rudely accused of nefarious spying on Trump by Bad Guy Orange man.

    Good we have “Conservatives: defending Trump getting wiretapped and Flynn getting railroaded.

    rcocean (846d30)

  146. 124. Colonel Karen, sir, I’ve never worked at a place that requires a hairnet, and probably would not. I do work in a state that requires hats at a minimum, and I’m okay with that since I wear a hat in other contexts as well. The few places around here that do require hair nets, I don’t work at because I don’t want to wear a hairnet. Same as I don’t work at or patronize establishments that would require me to wear a mask in order to do so.

    Next question, Colonel, Sir?

    Gryph (08c844)

  147. Appalled (1a17de) — 5/27/2020 @ 7:21 am

    Frosty, free speech does not require a host to post everything written. You know that.

    This isn’t what’s going on. Twitter isn’t a host in some sort of blog/comment type of situation. The case isn’t being made that Twitter has limited space or time and should have the freedom to make content-neutral editorial decisions. Twitter originally held itself out as a public forum but we forget about that when it comes time to censor someone. Twitter is being asked to make specific decisions to block both specific people and content. Again, if a religious organization demanded censorship of LGBTQ comments “for the children and the safety of society” we’d call it for what it is. If nutjobs showed up a the local drug store to demand the store only sell personal lubricants to people with medically approved reasons we’d laugh and mock them. People lining up behind Mika to pressure Twitter on this should be recognized for what they are.

    Twitter can do what it wants to, and everyone has the free speech right to push twitter to ban Trump, just because.

    Yes, I agree. Everyone has the freedom to advocate for fascism and censorship. That doesn’t make it wise or moral. I already don’t like where that has taken us.

    frosty (f27e97)

  148. 153. “Content-neutral” editorial decisions, aren’t. This opens up Twitter to lawsuits based on Twitter’s own argument that they are not a publisher. Now they are.

    Gryph (08c844)

  149. Just FYI. Anyone who comes back with the lame “I dunno what youse takin’ about. Please post a link or persuade me with evidence” will be ignored. That non-response has been popular on the internet for 20 years. Its not an argument, its a lazy, nothing-burger way of “pushing back”. And its boring.

    rcocean (846d30) — 5/27/2020 @ 11:20 am

    It’s usually 1 of 2 things; A request for more information or an accusation that you’re lying / ignorant.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  150. Twitter isn’t a host in some sort of blog/comment type of situation.

    They are exactly that.

    Twitter originally held itself out as a public forum but we forget about that when it comes time to censor someone

    Only if you forget that they are not the government, and they not discriminating against Trump based on him being in a protected class. Arguably, he should be, but that would also invoke the 25th ammendment.

    Twitter is being asked to make specific decisions to block both specific people and content. Again, if a religious organization demanded censorship of LGBTQ comments “for the children and the safety of society” we’d call it for what it is.

    Because those are protected classes.

    Yes, I agree. Everyone has the freedom to advocate for fascism and censorship. That doesn’t make it wise or moral. I already don’t like where that has taken us.

    A) Unconnected to Twitter, Fascism, or some freedom of speech that you never had on private property…get off my lawn. B) Newton’s third law does not apply, the government’s action is the one banned, not Twitter’s, since the federal government is explicitly prohibited from even threatening this, they are not equal parties. See post contents above.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  151. It’s usually 1 of 2 things; A request for more information or an accusation that you’re lying / ignorant.

    2 things can be true at one time.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  152. Charlie 3-wives Sykes

    But that was before he became a NeverTrumper!! So it shouldn’t matter to Trumpers, who think that saying “That was before he became president!” is an airtight refutation when anything sordid in Trump’s past is mentioned.

    And once again: it’s amusing when the most loyal Trump fanatics (and probably Limbaugh defenders) pretend to be offended by an imperfect personal history.

    Radegunda (89f220)

  153. Time123 (66d88c) — 5/27/2020 @ 7:38 am

    Frosty, The 5.9% is the number of people who die after getting the disease.

    This is not a technically correct statement. We do not have 100% testing. That number is the case fatality rate based on known cases.

    I think the data being reported out of NYC is honest, but there could of course be errors.

    Honest is a fudge. I’m not making a statement about honesty. NY and NJ are reporting roughly the same number per capita. But they are an order of magnitude, or more, greater than CA, GA, and TX. They are triple Italy and the UK. That isn’t explained away by the New York subway system.

    All that said, I don’t think the data lends itself to precise conclusions yet. That’s not the same thing as saying we don’t know anything, but there’s some uncertainty in all of this.

    I’m not saying we don’t know anything either. I’m saying that people who are saying with certainty that we do are untrustworthy and that it should be clear various people are pushing agendas.

    frosty (f27e97)

  154. Frosty, The 5.9% is the number of people who die after getting the disease.

    This is not a technically correct statement. We do not have 100% testing. That number is the case fatality rate based on known cases.

    You’re correct, i was imprecise in my language.

    I think the data being reported out of NYC is honest, but there could of course be errors.

    Honest is a fudge. I’m not making a statement about honesty. NY and NJ are reporting roughly the same number per capita. But they are an order of magnitude, or more, greater than CA, GA, and TX. They are triple Italy and the UK. That isn’t explained away by the New York subway system.

    The point I was trying to make, badly it appears, is that China likely was / is lying about what’s happening. I think the evidence of that is pretty clear.

    All that said, I don’t think the data lends itself to precise conclusions yet. That’s not the same thing as saying we don’t know anything, but there’s some uncertainty in all of this.

    I’m not saying we don’t know anything either. I’m saying that people who are saying with certainty that we do are untrustworthy and that it should be clear various people are pushing agendas.

    agreed.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  155. frosty,

    I favor more speech but aren’t there limits? Without limits, every forum could end hosting extreme content outliers.

    DRJ (4d6f5d)

  156. DRJ (4d6f5d) — 5/27/2020 @ 12:07 pm

    I favor more speech but aren’t there limits? … extreme content outliers.

    And? Who decides what is extreme? How does this not become weaponized? What is the actual harm posed by these extreme content outliers? What sort of harm are we talking about that wouldn’t be covered by libel laws? I’m guessing we’re dancing around something that might in a different context be labeled an IIED tort but no one really wants to try to make that case.

    Is there some worry that we’ll see neo-nazi propaganda and it might be normalized? What about satanism?

    I don’t see any reason for the limits that we’re talking about now, i.e. limiting Trump, based on any sort of extreme content outlier basis. I’m not even sure what these extreme content outliers would be. Can you give some examples?

    frosty (f27e97)

  157. And? Who decides what is extreme? How does this not become weaponized? What is the actual harm posed by these extreme content outliers?

    How about we let the person that owns the IP decide?

    Time123 (457a1d)

  158. Per Jonah:

    Trump – Bad Character
    Hillary/Bill CLinton – Not as bad Character
    Biden – Good Character
    Pelosi/Schumer – Good character
    Romney – Very good character
    McCain – Very good character
    Joe Scarborough – Very good character.

    And every word a lie.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  159. 153. “Content-neutral” editorial decisions, aren’t. This opens up Twitter to lawsuits based on Twitter’s own argument that they are not a publisher. Now they are.

    Wait…

    Gryph is saying untrue stuff the has no clue about…?!?!

    Hold me back!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  160. 165. Cool your jets, Raggy. On a different thread, I was educated as to just what “Section 230″ immunity means. Since Twitter is by its very nature all-comment and no-content, it would be extraordinarily hard for them to put themselves in a situation where immunity wouldn’t apply.

    Gryph (08c844)

  161. @149-151 I’m very sorry you can’t tell the difference between “has good character” and “agrees with my politics.”

    Nic (896fdf)

  162. Moana, I find it high-larry-ous that a skin-head would worry about wearing a hair net!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  163. 89. narciso (7404b5) — 5/27/2020 @ 6:26 am

    if you missed the point, sweeney todd [New York Governor Andrew Cuomo] immunized the nursing homes against lawsuits, secretly,

    It was done quietly, and was unknown, but it wasn’t secret. It was passed by the New York State legislature as part of the budget bill at the end of March. Of course nobody not involved in drafting it read it before it passed. They had to pass the bill to know what was in it.

    It is a safe guess that that portion of the bill was written in the Governor’s office and agreed to by the legislative leaders.

    Other things passed in the budget bill were allowing the state to cancel an election if there was only candidate and also allowing withdrawals (I’m not sure exactly what was in it since I am relying on half informed reporters who don’t write all they know) and so the state board of elections (which Cuomo claimed he couldn’t say what they would do) cancelled the Democratic presidential primary, although that left local primaries, like for Congress and the state legislature. Andrew Yang went to court and won and the vote for president is on.

    Also, maybe partly by executive order, every regisered voter in the state is being mailed an absentee allot application (I also got one, slightly different, sent by Congressman Nadler with a lot of my information filled out.) Cuomo said (and the material says) that people should check as the reason “temporary illness or physical disability” and he said that this year avoidance of possible infection would qualify. He said that the New York State constituion does not allow no excuses absentee voting.

    a diktat he doesn’t grant every business,

    Senate Majority Mitch McConnell wants to give that liability protection to every business, and says the Republicans in the Senate are united on this, and they won’t pass another Covid relief bill if that’s not included. That’s why the clock is being run down.

    In spite of the New York State law, there is one lawsuit against a nursing home going on. It was filed (on the first day courts were allowing the filing of non-emergency lawsuits) against a nursing home on the grounds of gross negligence, which was still left in as grounds for a lawsuit.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  164. Note: CBS is going to stat live coverage of the Elon Musk space launch at 4:20 pm Eastern time (in about 3 minutes)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  165. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/27/2020 @ 11:43 am

    This entire post is full of a variety of misconceptions.

    There is a difference between private property like your house and private property held open to the public. When you are walking down the aisle of grocery store you are on private property. But there are a variety of legal obligations relating to that property that are different from the hallway in your house. For that matter, your driveway and the steps leading up to your house impose different legal obligations on you than your yard or the inside of your house. Over general claims that a “private” corporation like Twitter are no different than you sitting at home alone are incorrect.

    The underlying issue doesn’t have anything to do with protected classes. Censorship of speech should be rejected generally and Twitter is being asked to censor Trump because people simply don’t like him and they don’t want him using the platform. This most recent example isn’t an isolated case.

    More generally, you are using a 1st amendment argument to make a more general free speech argument. These aren’t the same thing except for people who are in favor of censorship. The 1st amendment exists within the context of free speech but free speech is a larger concept.

    frosty (f27e97)

  166. Twitter put a link on some Trump tweets about the possibility of voting by mail allowing fraud. His scenario seemed quite far fetched and also at variance with reality. One criticism is that they made Politico and CNN and such their fact checkers.

    I could have another criticism. What about posts that claim that hackers could interfere with the election? It’s probably not as easy as claimed.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  167. This is not a whattabout… just an observation.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/19/bidens_memory_isnt_the_only_problem_its_his_lies_142706.html

    The fact that Biden would do this to engender sympathy his way based on known evidence is just as appalling as Trump’s recent tiff with Scarborough:

    More disturbingly, Biden lied on at least two occasions about a man named Curtis C. Dunn. Dunn was the tractor-trailer driver who, in 1972, tragically struck and killed Biden’s wife and his infant daughter. Along with many other news outlets, the Huffington Post, in 2008, described the accident this way: “Delaware’s Senator-elect would face a more difficult challenge soon after his election, when a drunk driver struck the car carrying his family, killing his wife Neilia and daughter Naomi and severely wounding sons Hunter and Beau.”

    Based on Joe Biden’s account, the Huffington Post got it right. Dunn was driving drunk. After all, in a 2001 speech at the University of Delaware, Biden said, “An errant driver who stopped to drink instead of drive and hit — a tractor-trailer — hit my children and my wife and killed them.” But the then-Delaware prosecutor, now a judge, who investigated the accident says, “The rumor about alcohol being involved by either party, especially the truck driver [Dunn], is incorrect.” Furthermore, the tractor-trailer driver had the right of way, and Dunn immediately got out of his truck and tried to render assistance. He was no drunk driver.

    Disturbed by Biden’s drunk-driver version of the accident, Pamela Hamill, Dunn’s daughter, wrote to Biden. The Newark Post wrote:

    “In 2001, [Hamill] wrote a heartfelt letter to Biden expressing her father’s profound grief after hearing Biden make a post Sept. 11 speech in which he told the audience that, given his history, he could empathize with victims.

    “‘Growing up, my dad never talked about it. He always got very solemn around Christmastime because the anniversary was Dec. 18, and he never wanted to celebrate the holidays,’ Hamill said. ‘When newspapers had anniversary articles [about the crash], we hid them from dad.’

    “Biden responded in a handwritten note, which, in part, reads, ‘All that I can say is I am sorry for all of us and please know that neither I or my sons feel any animosity whatsoever.'”

    Biden, it appears, got the message. Both families suffered a terrible tragedy. Why add to the pain by falsely portraying the remorseful Curtis Dunn as a drunk driver?

    But a few years later, Biden did it again.

    In a 2007 speech at the University of Iowa, Biden said: “Let me tell you a little story. I got elected when I was 29, and I got elected November the 7th. And on Dec. 18 of that year, my wife and three kids were Christmas shopping for a Christmas tree. A tractor-trailer, a guy who allegedly — and I never pursued it — drank his lunch instead of eating his lunch, broadsided my family and killed my wife instantly, and killed my daughter instantly, and hospitalized my two sons, with what were thought to be at the time permanent, fundamental injuries.”

    In 2008, Hamill demanded that Biden make a public apology. Hearing nothing from Biden, she sent him a registered letter. The next year, after an accurate CBS television report on the accident, Hamill said she received a phone call from Biden. Hamill told Politico: “He apologized for hurting my family in any way. So we accepted that — and kind of end of story from there.”

    Joe’s calling card is decency, an affable man without a malicious bone in his body. Yet he allowed Dunn, who died in 1999, to go to his grave having been falsely shamed by Biden as a drunk driver responsible for the death of Biden’s wife and newborn daughter. What “decent” man does that.

    whembly (c30c83)

  168. NBC says the SpaceX launch was delayed due to [bad] weather.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  169. That reflects poorly on Joe. He should have been more honorable and honest in his portrayal of the man that killed his wife and daughter.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  170. 175. The trucker was never faulted for the collusion, IIRC.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  171. This entire post is full of a variety of misconceptions.

    Let’s see

    There is a difference between private property like your house and private property held open to the public. When you are walking down the aisle of grocery store you are on private property. But there are a variety of legal obligations relating to that property that are different from the hallway in your house. For that matter, your driveway and the steps leading up to your house impose different legal obligations on you than your yard or the inside of your house.

    You probably mean public accomodation, does Twitter restrict public access to it’s data center? Yes. Their platform is an extension, plus their rights and restrictions in Sec 230 are on top of that. O

    ver general claims that a “private” corporation like Twitter are no different than you sitting at home alone are incorrect.

    You’re again making a false equivalency.

    The underlying issue doesn’t have anything to do with protected classes. Censorship of speech should be rejected generally and Twitter is being asked to censor Trump because people simply don’t like him and they don’t want him using the platform. This most recent example isn’t an isolated case.

    Again, incorrect. Twitter can censor him because it’s their platform and it’s within their rights, as well as the rights, again stipulated by rule 230.

    More generally, you are using a 1st amendment argument to make a more general free speech argument. These aren’t the same thing except for people who are in favor of censorship. The 1st amendment exists within the context of free speech but free speech is a larger concept

    No, you’re confusing your feelings of “free speech” with the constitutional definition. You can FEELZ whatever you want, reality could probably care less, it definitely could care way more.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  172. Unmoderated platforms turn into garbage. As evidence, see 4chan and Gab.

    Davethulhu (0ed007)

  173. Conservative Activists Lose Lawsuit That Accused Twitter, Google and Facebook of Censorship

    A federal court dismissed activist Laura Loomer’s lawsuit against several tech platforms on Wednesday. The complaint alleged a far-flung conspiracy to censor conservative speech.

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit added insult to injury by cavalierly noting at the outset that “the issues” at stake in the original lawsuit “do not warrant a published opinion.”

    In 2018, Loomer and Freedom Watch, a non-profit and right-wing legal advocacy organization founded and run by attorney Larry Klayman, sued Google, Facebook, Twitter and Apple over allegations that the platforms had violated the First Amendment, the Sherman Antitrust Act and the District of Columbia Human Rights Act.

    Specifically, the duo alleged that those platforms worked together to “intentionally and willfully suppress politically conservative content.”

    The district court found that the plaintiffs “failed to tie [their] concerns to colorable legal claims” and dismissed the lawsuit.
    …….
    From the opinion:

    Freedom Watch’s First Amendment claim fails because it does not adequately allege that the Platforms can violate the First Amendment. In general, the First Amendment “prohibits only governmental abridgment of speech.” Manhattan Cmty. Access Corp. v. Halleck. Freedom Watch contends that, because the Platforms provide an important forum for speech, they are engaged in state action. But, under Halleck, “a private entity who provides a forum for speech is not transformed by that fact alone into a state actor.” Freedom Watch fails to point to additional facts indicating that these Platforms are engaged in state action and thus fails to state a viable First Amendment claim.

    ……

    With his track record of frivolous lawsuits, how does Klayman keep this law license?

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  174. Tulsi Gabbard Just Made a Completely Unconvincing Excuse for Dropping Lawsuit Against Hillary Clinton

    Looks like Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) just hoisted herself up onto the moral high ground while making a completely nonsensical excuse for utterly wasting a federal court’s time. Gabbard voluntarily withdrew her defamation lawsuit against Hillary Clinton on Wednesday, on grounds that there are simply more important things in life than defending herself from being called a Russian asset.

    Back in January, when Gabbard was still a presidential candidate, she sued Clinton for defamation; the back-and-forth between the two was straight out of Mean Girls.

    Clinton had said that Gabbard was “the favorite of the Russians,” that she was supported by “a bunch of sites and bots,” and that she (as well as Jill Stein) was “a Russian asset.” Gabbard responded, calling Clinton the “queen of warmongers,” and then sued Clinton when she refused to retract her statements.
    …..
    Now, though, Gabbard seems committed to being the bigger person. She filed a voluntary dismissal of her own case. She insisted that she definitely could have won the defamation case, but that she’s just too busy with more important stuff right now. Yes, seriously.
    ……
    Right, because that’s what plaintiffs with super strong cases do. They file cases just for fun, and then withdraw them before discovery begins and after the defendant files a motion to dismiss. Absolutely nothing is suspect about that.
    …..

    Somebody let JVW down easy.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  175. Don’t Blame Twitter
    onathan V. Last makes a compelling case that Twitter should ban Donald Trump. I’m going to make a counterpoint, but he reminds us of several crucial facts here: Twitter is a private company and “private companies are legally allowed to make reasonable decisions about who they will and will not serve.”

    That’s the whole point of having terms of service and standards…….

    So if Twitter did decide to kick Trump out, it would not only be within its rights, it would reaffirm basic principles of decency.

    But it would also be beside the point, because the whole debate about Twitter is a distraction.

    Banning him would be both ineffective and even counterproductive, because it mistakes the pus for the real infection.

    This isn’t to say that social media platforms don’t bear some responsibility here; and we should applaud anything they can do to push back on disinformation.

    But in this case, the vector of this disease is not Twitter: the root of the malignancy is the president himself. Until we deal with Trump, everything else is just noise, because he is the bully pulpit.
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  176. @178

    Unmoderated platforms turn into garbage. As evidence, see 4chan and Gab.

    Davethulhu (0ed007) — 5/27/2020 @ 1:40 pm

    Now… Gab need to re-adjust their business plan.

    I would keep it unmoderated, but enduser account must NOT be anonymous. To me, that’d be a great differentiator against Twitter and the fact that you’re not anonymous would mitigate the crazies.

    whembly (c30c83)

  177. @182. Oh! If they haven’t implemented it, allow EDITS to the Gab posts.

    On Twitter I’ve had to own my tpyo constantly. 😀

    whembly (c30c83)

  178. 175. The trucker was never faulted for the collusion, IIRC.</em 😀

    Kishnevi (6ba415)

  179. …or the wreck, either…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  180. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/27/2020 @ 1:35 pm

    We’re posting across threads so we’ll see how this goes.

    You probably mean public accommodation, does Twitter restrict public access to it’s data center? Yes. Their platform is an extension, plus their rights and restrictions in Sec 230 are on top of that. O

    Do grocery stores restrict access to certain areas? Yes, the store is an extension of that so there’s no difference between the areas open to public access and the ones that aren’t. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? This platform as an extension of the data center is nonsense.

    You’re again making a false equivalency.

    No, it’s just a comment you don’t like. Your comment about feelz applies here.

    Again, incorrect. Twitter can censor him because it’s their platform and it’s within their rights, as well as the rights, again stipulated by rule 230.

    Can you quote any comment I’ve made that they don’t have the “right” to censor him? I’ve said they shouldn’t which is a different issue. I’ve said it’s wrong to call for censorship and that it’s wrong for corporations to censor individuals except in very limited cases. But this idea that I’m making some argument within the context of rule 230 or that I’m arguing that Twitter can somehow be forced to allow speech on their platform is a figment of your imagination. It’s the point you want to argue because you really want it to be ok for Twitter to censor things you don’t like without obviously taking a pro-censorship position.

    frosty (f27e97)

  181. Time123 (457a1d) — 5/27/2020 @ 12:52 pm

    And? Who decides what is extreme? How does this not become weaponized? What is the actual harm posed by these extreme content outliers?

    How about we let the person that owns the IP decide?

    You’re just betting that you’ll agree with the censorship because that’s how things line up now. But the CCP already has all of the major content companies agreeing to its censorship guidelines and the major tech companies helping implement them. Speaking for myself I don’t like the current situation and I don’t like the current direction. So, no, I don’t think leaving it to the corporations will work out like I would like.

    frosty (f27e97)

  182. Well, he’s back at it, peddling conspiracy theories and accusing people of murder, without regard to the collateral damage caused to grieving families.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499685-trump-again-tweets-about-scarborough-conspiracy-despite-heavy

    What is it with this guy, accusing people of murder? Without foundation, without evidence, he’s done it on multiple occasions over the years. But that’s what Trump does, he doubles down on accusations against his vocal critics and perceived enemies. It’s pathological. Peter Wehner agrees with Dana, it’s also malignantly cruel, to the families involved.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/malignant-cruelty-donald-trump/612097/

    Meanwhile, in other news, David Graham makes an interesting observation.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/transition-to-greatness-is-a-confession-of-failure/612073/

    Yeah, Trump’s campaign slogan went for “Make America Great Again” to “Keep America Great,” and now to “Transition to Greatness.” It is an admission to abject failure. I wonder how many caps he’ll be able to sell. MAGA, KAG, TTG, it’s like every other business he’s ventured in. The only one that didn’t go bankrupt was Trump Escorts, now Mystique Encounters, still at the Trump Tower. (It’s how he met his third wife, who was working as a soft porn model in violation of her visa.)

    Over 100,000 people are dead, due to his complete mishandling of the pandemic. Yeah, sure, blame the CDC and the FDA, but those agencies are under the direction of the executive branch. Blame the WHO! Blame China! Blame anyone but POTUS, while he slanders anyone and everyone who criticizes his performance.

    And it’s getting worse and worse. We got rabid MAGA, or KAG and TTG supporters calling for Death to Democrats! They want to start a Civil War in the middle of a pandemic. How many dead do they want?

    The economy is in ruin. The real estate market is deader than dead, and that affects a lot more people than you want to admit. Equity gone, net worth gone. Forget about the stock market, that’ just a bunch of robo-traders working off of computer formulas. Homes are where people live, and what they make the greatest investment in; that, and in small businesses, where people work.

    Now look at us. We have hundreds dying a day, thousands dying a week; businesses closing, facing foreclosure; unemployment skyrocketing; real estate values plummeting; an economy in turmoil. But, hey, at least the Republicans passed a tax cut, which corporations used for stock buybacks and CEO compensations. And nominated a few judges, who have yet to rule on anything relevant.

    The Republican Party has undergone a grotesque transmogrification under Trump. Trillion dollar deficits, rising national debt, ineffective policy, the loss of allies, and absence of national standing.

    The world will never be the same. Trump is a dunce, and the United States have become a joke.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  183. GG, take heart. There’s never been a POTUS as gawd-awful as the Thug In The Oval Office, but we’ve been through crap before and come out of it. I recommend this as a pallet cleanser…
    https://billwhittle.com/the-cold-war-what-we-saw-a-pizza-hut-parade-episode-13/

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  184. A ‘debunked conspiracy theory’ in a ‘series of obscene tweets’? So everything that the Russiagaters and NeverTrumpers were talking about for the past four years? Focusing directly on the primary promulgators of the obscene, debunked conspiracy theory?

    Shocked. Appalled. Outraged. Adjectived. Trump has NO RIGHT to do what every single media personality does to him every day.

    OJ Scarborough (73b272)

  185. Did you miss the Mueller report when your were swapping your aliases?

    And he can say many things, but just like other people, he can be called on his BS.

    You know, like when he sold the US out to…well anyone who’s willing to pay. Lie about nearly everything, promulgate conspiracy delusions, about things like HCQ, or your current namesake.

    He’s a stupid man, who can learn nothing because he’s brain broke, just like his basket of deplorables. Hillary Clinton has been wrong on just about everything, but she hit the nail on the head with that one.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  186. “Did you miss the Mueller report when your were swapping your aliases”

    The Mueller report missed everyone, because it wasn’t written by Mueller or any competent lawyer, and much like the Steele Dossier, was far too thinly sourced and poorly argued to see the inside of a courtroom. Good gruel for the Resistance grifters to talk about “the one that got away”, though!

    “And he can say many things, but just like other people, he can be called on his BS.”

    Just like OJ Scarborough can. And just like OJ, Scarboy is innocent!!! (because courts couldn’t find time to look into his case after 9/11!)

    “You know, like when he sold the US out to…well anyone who’s willing to pay.”

    Why you bringing Bill Clinton into this?

    “Lie about nearly everything, promulgate conspiracy delusions”

    Why are you bringing the liberal media into this?

    “about things like HCQ, or your current namesake.”

    HCQ is a well-known drug with well-known side effects that’s so far done pretty good when taken preventatively against viruses, especially when paired properly with zinc. All studies released AFTER a pandemic makes concern-trolling cheap drugs by repeating those well-known side effects in scary voices, however, should be counted as suspect.

    OJ Scarborough (bdf7ef)

  187. Did someone order another fringe nutter…???

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  188. RAGS, you can tell MOAO/Christoph isn’t even interested in trying this sock-round. Mocking caution about chloroquine, pretending we don’t know Trump colluded with Putin against our democracy (and isn’t doing it even more this year by targeting the nation’s trust in our democracy). When you start the kook dialed up to 11 you plan to run to another sock already.

    It’s the tactic of a loser.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  189. How hard could it be…. to show malice on the part of Trump?

    noel (4d3313)

  190. 194, Dustin (d59cff) — 5/27/2020 @ 8:00 pm

    pretending we don’t know Trump colluded with Putin

    Trump didn’t collude with Putin. We know that because Putin didn’t collude with Trump and it takes two to collude. This was looked into by Mueller and no such thing was found. Which is logical. It would have been very surprising if Putin had taken Trump into his confidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  191. @196. This was looked into by Mueller and no such thing was found.

    Not so, Mr. Finkelman.

    MUELLER:

    “We did not address ‘collusion,’ which is not a legal term,” Mueller added. “Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not.”

    ‘If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so’

    “The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed.”

    JRH (52aed3)

  192. Mueller punted to Congress, who then dropped the ball.

    JRH (52aed3)

  193. We know that because Putin didn’t collude with Trump and it takes two to collude.

    Julius and Ethel Rosenberg probably never talked to Stalin, either. Not on Earth, anyway.

    nk (1d9030)

  194. They looked at conspiracy to commit a crime, not any kind of collusion with Russia.

    The crimes that they said Trump might possibly have committed involved the idea of obstructing the investigation, not conspiracy with Russia,

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  195. Back on topic, anybody here think that Trump’s morons will finally realize that Trump’s idea of lessening the power of Deep State, such as the regulatory agencies he threatens to sic on social media, just meant replacing them with Orange State?

    nk (1d9030)

  196. No, that’s Deep, Beautiful, the BEST, Orange State!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  197. @200 First you stated:

    “Trump didn’t collude with Putin. We know that because Putin didn’t collude with Trump and it takes two to collude. This was looked into by Mueller and no such thing was found.”

    Then you stated

    “They looked at conspiracy to commit a crime, not any kind of collusion with Russia.”

    Not to nitpick, but those two statements contradict each other.

    JRH (52aed3)

  198. There is another statement there to the effect that Russia had no help from Americans in hacking and no help from the campaign in the leaking and sockpuppeting.

    The Mueller report said “no members of the Trump campaign” conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities, and “no U.S. person or Trump campaign official or associate” conspired or coordinated with the Internet Research agency (which did the sockpuppeting but not the hacking or the leaking.) in anything.

    The possible criminal acts by Trump involved only obstruction. (and it wold be some heavyy lift by the way)

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-mueller-report-road-map-to-where

    The report paints a vivid picture of how the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election with hopes of helping Donald Trump win. Special Counsel Robert Mueller found no “members of the Trump campaign conspired” with the Kremlin, but on obstruction he wrote, “… while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

    Boldface mine.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  199. @203

    @200 First you stated:

    “Trump didn’t collude with Putin. We know that because Putin didn’t collude with Trump and it takes two to collude. This was looked into by Mueller and no such thing was found.”

    Then you stated

    “They looked at conspiracy to commit a crime, not any kind of collusion with Russia.”

    Not to nitpick, but those two statements contradict each other.

    JRH (52aed3) — 5/28/2020 @ 7:31 am

    Collusion is a weasel word in this regard. There’s no laws on the book that defines a criminal act as “collusion”.

    The phrase ought to be criminal conspiracy – meaning 2 or more people working together in an act to break US laws. Which the Mueller team didn’t find.

    whembly (c30c83)

  200. “In brief, the key facts are that, on June 3, 2016, Robert Goldstone emailed Donald Trump
    Jr., to pass along from Emin and Aras Agalarov an “offer” from Russia’s “Crown prosecutor” to
    “the Trump campaign” of “official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and
    her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to [Trump Jr.’s] father.” The email described
    this as “very high level and sensitive information” that is “part of Russia and its government’s
    support to Mr. Trump-helped along by Aras and Emin.” Trump Jr. responded: “if it’s what you
    say I love it especially later in the summer.” Trump Jr. and Emin Agalarov had follow-up
    conversations and, within days, scheduled a meeting with Russian representatives that was
    attended by Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner. The communications setting up the meeting and
    the attendance by high-level Campaign representatives support an inference that the Campaign
    anticipated receiving derogatory documents and information from official Russian sources that
    could assist candidate Trump’s electoral prospects.”

    This series of events could implicate the federal election-law ban on contributions and
    donations by foreign nationals, 52 U.S.C. § 30121(a)(1)(A). Specifically, Goldstone passed along
    an offer purportedly from a Russian government official to provide “official documents and
    information” to the Trump Campaign for the purposes of influencing the presidential election.
    Trump Jr. appears to have accepted that offer and to have arranged a meeting to receive those
    materials. Documentary evidence in the form of email chains supports the inference that Kushner
    and Manafort were aware of that purpose and attended the June 9 meeting anticipating the receipt
    of helpful information to the Campaign from Russian sources.”

    JRH (52aed3)

  201. Unable to establish “Willfulness”. I.E., These guys might have been too dumb to know what they were doing was wrong.

    JRH (52aed3)

  202. “The report documents Trump’s efforts to end or curtail the investigation, his refusal to be interviewed and written answers that Mueller found “inadequate.” The report also notes that members of the campaign lied, refused to answer questions, deleted communications and used encrypted applications. Obstruction is a crime precisely because those who engage in it seek to keep investigators from arriving at the truth. As Mueller wrote in Volume I, pertaining to conspiracy with Russia, “given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.”

    https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/

    JRH (52aed3)

  203. https://www.justice.gov/atr/price-fixing-bid-rigging-and-market-allocation-schemes

    Yes, there are laws on the books that define collusion as a criminal act and a criminal act as collusion.

    nk (1d9030)

  204. Hm,

    I was going to post great thoughts on Section 230, but we seem to have wandered back to Mueller and Russia and the stuff Trump would like to call Obamagate (aka rehashed nonsense). So I’ll wait to see if Pat posts on this issue again, which given the CNN news on the coming executive order seems likely.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  205. Dengue is one of the pandemic-prone diseases that kill millions of life in various countries in the world. Dengue fever is an infectious disease that causes severe flu and sometimes causes a fatal complication. While talking about the other names, dengue and breakbone fever is the common term that describes this deadly disease.

    dengue (714f24)

  206. Calculator : It is an electronic device. It makes the difficult calculations so easy and on tips. The machine is fully equipped with the functionality of solving various problems. For example, Addition, subtraction, Multiplication and Division. Above all, it is no more related to these four functions only. More functional and technical devices are available to give a great experience to the user. These require some sort of energy to operate. Therefore, most of simple calculators are designed with the battery.

    Calculator (714f24)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.8568 secs.