Patterico's Pontifications

5/25/2020

Trump Threatens To Pull Convention Out Of NC Over State Limits On Gatherings

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:21 am



[guest post by Dana]

President Trump has threatened to pull the Republican Convention out of North Carolina if Gov. Roy Cooper doesn’t allow the event at the venue site:

President Donald Trump on Monday threatened to pull the Republican National Convention out of North Carolina in August unless Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper can guarantee “full attendance” at the event, which typically draws tens of thousands of people. Republicans, Trump tweeted, “must be immediately given an answer by the Governor as to whether or not the space will be allowed to be fully occupied. If not, we will be reluctantly forced… to find, with all of the jobs and economic development it brings, another Republican National Convention site.”

“In other words, we would be spending millions of dollars building the Arena to a very high standard without even knowing if the Democrat Governor would allow the Republican Party to fully occupy the space,” Trump added in another tweet.

North Carolina has begun a phased reopening of the state, but large gatherings are still banned. The governor has thus far refused to deviate from the plan. In an interview with CNN, Cooper said of his decision:

“This is not political. This is not emotional. This is based on health experts, data and science and that’s it for everybody to see. No one is being favored or disfavored over the other.”

The Republican convention is scheduled for Aug. 24 – 27. As a reminder, North Carolina has 15 electoral votes which are critical to Trump’s re-election. GOP officials say that they expect 50,000 attendees in Charlotte for the convention.

The numbers:

At least 24,056 people in North Carolina have tested positive for the coronavirus, and 790 have died as of Monday morning, according to state and county health departments.

The N.C. Department of Health and Human Services on Sunday reported 497 new cases of the virus, a drop from the 1,107 reported Saturday — the largest single-day increase since the start of the pandemic and the first time the state topped 1,000 new cases in a day.

Officials attribute Saturday’s spike to an increase in testing, with an all-time high of 26,378 daily tests completed.

The state has been averaging 673 daily cases over the last seven days as of Sunday.

It’s absurd for Trump to demand that he be given a guarantee by the governor, at this point in time. Neither the governor, nor Trump have any idea what level of outbreak North Carolina will be experiencing come August. It would be irresponsible for the governor to give his guarantee to Trump. I find it even more irresponsible, and unconscionable, for the President of the United States to leverage the economy and livelihood of North Carolinians in this way.

–Dana

111 Responses to “Trump Threatens To Pull Convention Out Of NC Over State Limits On Gatherings”

  1. Meanwhile, the DNC weighs out their options, with nothing set in stone. The convention is tentatively set for the week of Aug. 17 (moved from July), and slated to be held in Milwaukee.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. 1. I’m all for anything that reduces the amount of post-convention campaigning these weasels do.

    Gryph (08c844)

  3. I also would like to see full attendance at both conventions with no coronavirus restrictions. The top 100,000 (say 50,000 each) Republican and Democrat movers-and shakers going back to their organizations and congregations, their businesses and their bundle-contributing business associates, their families and friends, may very well turn the coronavirus from a curse to a blessing for America.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. 3. The problem with doing that would be that it could expose the social distancing recommendations as needless.

    Gryph (08c844)

  5. And that would be a bad thing? I would love to see the social distancing recommendations exposed as needless. Wouldn’t you?

    Gryph, the difference between religion is science, is that science is just as happy to have a belief disproved as it is to have it proved. Either way, “Now we know!” Do you know what I mean?

    nk (1d9030)

  6. How could we possibly go forward with an election that doesn’t have conventions first? How else will the public find out who the vice-presidential nominees are? How else will the parties provide opportunities for minor dignataries to present immediately forgettable speeches? How else will our citizens get the chance to see radio, television and internet experts try to avoid hernias caused by attempts to gin up drama at events otherwise devoid of same?

    John B Boddie (f44786)

  7. 5. I think you and I are in lockstep agreement on that, nk. :)

    6. Wow. I was going to engage in some repartee about how conventions are a fairly recent innovation in American politics, and then I realized you were being sarcastic.

    Gryph (08c844)

  8. Of course, I would prefer that only the Trumpablicans were the canaries in the coal mine, but it’s not up to me.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. 8. Any politicians ceding that the utility of social distancing is uncertain is welcome as far as I’m concerned. Weasels gonna weasel.

    Gryph (08c844)

  10. Hold it in Florida. R’s had the convention in ’68 in Miami beach. Other good choices:

    Ohio
    GA
    Texas.

    rcocean (846d30)

  11. D’s don’t need a convention. Heck, they don’t even need primaries. How many got cancelled anyway? Did any D protest? Of course not. D’s should just stop pretending they care, just allow the DNC to run everything. D Senators and D Congressman are robots that fall in line and do ANYTHING Schumer and Pelosi say. Only time they are centrist or moderate is on the campaign trail.

    rcocean (846d30)

  12. Trump should just move the whole shebang to Florida, and screw the masks and social distancing. Put his money where his mouth is.

    Paul Montagu (f7a161)

  13. Re #10, Cincy and have a lot of river parties to tweak another “Jr.”‘s nose.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  14. WWND. What Would a Narcissist Do?

    50,000 people packed into a stadium during a pandemic? Makes sense.

    noel (4d3313)

  15. And all of the Republicans said Amen.

    noel (4d3313)

  16. I have to ask myself basic, logical questions in times like these. What would have happened to New York City had they not stayed home, engaged in social distancing, washed hands frequently and wore masks? What would their fatalities have been? And then, what would have happened to the rest of us? If enough folks listen to Trump, we may find out.

    Oh…. maybe the Summer heat or a vaccine will save us. But I wouldn’t wait on the President to do it.

    noel (4d3313)

  17. @11-
    Republicans canceled caucuses or primaries in New York, Hawaii, Nevada, Kansas, South Carolina, Arizona, and Alaska. What’s your point?

    Rip Murdock (32617c)

  18. 7/31/2019-

    Charlotte Is Starting To Regret Hosting Trump’s Renomination Convention
    CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Republican Party leaders scoping out locations to renominate Donald Trump for president next year have arrived in a city that has labeled his statements “racist” and that almost wishes it had never invited them in the first place.

    “This is one of the ugliest moments of political discourse,” said Braxton Winston, a Charlotte City Council member who was on the losing side of last summer’s 6-5 vote to approve a contract to host the 2020 Republican convention. “This is specifically about the racism of this administration and the elements that that brings. I wish we were not bringing that here.”

    Last week, the council went so far as to discuss the possibility of backing out of the agreement, but ultimately decided against it after the city attorney said trying to do so would incur big legal bills and would almost certainly end with a judge requiring the city to host Trump’s convention, anyway.

    “Currently, we have no option to pull out,” said Dimple Ajmera, another city council member who opposed hosting the convention but now agrees the city is stuck with it.

    Ajmera and others on the board did successfully push a resolution last week that “strongly condemns all of President Donald Trump’s racist and xenophobic social media tweets and comments.”

    It was drafted in the days after Trump attacked four Democratic congresswomen – one Latina, one African American and two Muslim ― telling them they should “go home” to the countries they came from if they were unhappy in the United States. All four women — colloquially known as “the Squad” — are U.S. citizens, and three were born in the United States. The resolution passed on a 9-2 vote – with only the council’s two Republican members in opposition. ……
    ……..

    Charlotte has always had buyer’s remorse, so Trump would be doing them a favor.

    Rip Murdock (32617c)

  19. 7.
    Conventions have been around for almost 200 years, since the election of 1832.
    Wikipedia

    The 1832 presidential election demonstrated the rapid development and organization of political parties during this time period. The Democratic Party’s first national convention, held in Baltimore, nominated Jackson’s choice for vice president, Van Buren. The National Republican Party, who had held their first convention in Baltimore earlier in December 1831, nominated Henry Clay, now a senator from Kentucky, and John Sergeant of Pennsylvania.[220] The Anti-Masonic Party emerged by capitalizing on opposition to Freemasonry, which existed primarily in New England, after the disappearance and possible murder of William Morgan.[221] The party, which had earlier held its convention also in Baltimore in September 1831, nominated William Wirt of Maryland and Amos Ellmaker of Pennsylvania. Clay was, like Jackson, a Mason, and so some anti-Jacksonians who would have supported the National Republican Party supported Wirt instead.[222]

    Kishnevi (a1aef7)

  20. Mar-a-Lago should be available.

    Rip Murdock (32617c)

  21. If I were the governor, I would be telling the GOP it was their job to organize all the necessary precautions and contingency plans if there was spike of Covid19 in August, not his.

    Kishnevi (a1aef7)

  22. Checking the list of NFL stadiums with domes/retractable roofs, the obvious candidate is the one where the Cowboys play, with seating capacity of 80,000-100,000+. Add in the fiels itself, and that’s enough space to allow 50,000 people some room to spread out.

    Kishnevi (a1aef7)

  23. Is that the one in Arlington, TX?

    Dana (0feb77)

  24. Those 2 big screens above the playing field should be re-tightened beforehand.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  25. It’s a tricky balancing act Gov. Cooper needs to maintain: he can’t afford to alienate Trump’s base by refusing to accommodate the RNC convention, but he also needs to maintain public health as the state reopens.

    Also, I read that Charlotte’s city council already voted to accept a $50 million grant from the feds to cover insurance/ security costs for the convention.

    Dana (0feb77)

  26. Dana, that’s the one.

    Kishnevi (a1aef7)

  27. 25. That’s a false choice. Hosting the convention is not a trade-off between political expediency or public health. That $50 million grant is as good as a commitment, as far as I’m concerned.

    Gryph (08c844)

  28. Officials attribute Saturday’s spike to an increase in testing, with an all-time high of 26,378 daily tests completed.

    And Sunday’s testing set a further record! And then Monday! Who wrote this!?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. I will note that GOP Conventions have been snake-bit lately. Either they are shortened by a fully-predictable hurricane, or they are upstaged by one. Or they nominate a buffoon.

    Sometimes it seems that the networks find more reporters wanting to cover the Democrat one.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. Dana, I was about to be flip and echo nk’s assertion re blacks and Biden-Trump that very few voters are deciding between Cooper and his presumably pro-Trump GOP opposition this fall (NC Gov is on the presidential cycle)…but I had to reminded their was a smidge enough of Trump-Cooper voters in 2016 to get him here in the first place over Pat McCrory.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  31. 29, they’re all trying for that Rob Lowe cosplay moment.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  32. So, someone is trying to prevent Trump from packing a room during a pandemic with his 50,000 most die-hard supporters? There are parts of the old GOP that support his cause here. I wonder if the hookers will carry those forehead thermometer things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. 29, they’re all trying for that Rob Lowe cosplay moment.

    I’ll allow that the scandalmongers are more interested in the GOP though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. So, someone is trying to prevent Trump from packing a room during a pandemic with his 50,000 most die-hard supporters?
    I don’t understand what problem is. If any one tests positive for COVID-19, the convention center can act as an isolation center for all of them the next 14 days.

    Rip Murdock (32617c)

  35. whatever happened to the fellow who tested positive at cpac, it’s striking how some stories are left incomplete,

    narciso (7404b5)

  36. If any one tests positive for COVID-19, the convention center can act as an isolation center for all of them the next 14 days.

    But what if the concession stands run out of HCQ and bleach?

    Dave (1bb933)

  37. D’you think that Cooper just wants to pick up the phone and shout at them, “WE’RE TRYING TO SAVE YOUR LIVES YOU GAWDDAMM IDIOTS!!”

    Nic (896fdf)

  38. LOL, 36.

    Dana (0feb77)

  39. 37, uh, yes.

    Dana (0feb77)

  40. and half of the casualties in living facilities is proof of that,

    narciso (7404b5)

  41. Front page headline at the NYT right now:

    U.S. Deaths Near 100,000, an Incalculable Loss

    Did the oxymoron just escape the editors?

    norcal (a5428a)

  42. much like their veterans defamation, probably, of course they didn’t bother to disaggregate comorbities, and other factors, that’s what they used to call science,

    narciso (7404b5)

  43. Did the oxymoron just escape the editors?

    I think it’s intentional – i.e. the number does not convey the cost in human suffering and grief.

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. and half of the casualties in living facilities is proof of that,

    That still means the rest are not in an assisted living facility.

    what kind of twisted science experiment are they running,

    Yes, up 1.2%. Covid is an additional 100k people, up infinity. Also, I feel less bad for the overdose deaths than Bob down the street that was coughed on by some rando.

    Were you trying to make some kind of point, about something? Look who I’m asking, of course not.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  45. That’s nothing to mess with – last weekend of April, I had dry heaves the morning after a vicious virtual 3-Man game on GoToMeeting. I dumped out my Evan William’s and haven’t had liquor since.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  46. I have seen people say that we can’t make policy because old folks and the medically compromised are fragile, narciso 43. If you are one of those people then you know the answer. We can’t make policy because substance abusers are fragile.

    DRJ (15874d)

  47. Back in the day, a poster who may or may not still be posting here said that his answer to anyone asking about solving the opioid crisis was “Pull the Needle…Out of Your Arm”.

    I thought that was cool as hell, but then I’m jaded due to being far more adjacent to both the “supplier chain” and the “where was the concern with Crack?” crowds.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  48. @ nk, #3:

    I also would like to see full attendance at both conventions with no coronavirus restrictions. The top 100,000 (say 50,000 each) Republican and Democrat movers-and shakers going back to their organizations and congregations, their businesses and their bundle-contributing business associates, their families and friends, may very well turn the coronavirus from a curse to a blessing for America.

    I am pretty sure that you just wished harm, and possible death, on a few people I know.

    The comment I want to make to you would no doubt be blocked by this site’s profanity filter. But be assured that I mean every word of what I can’t say.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  49. I can relate. Within the past eight days, including today, there have been three occasions when I’ve had two Hershey bars for desert at lunch instead of my usual one.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. we’re talking about persons, who were deliberately exposed to flu victims, and then locked inside, in detroit to fatal nonflu consequences, while this witch whitmer thinks banning the sales of seeds and baby strollers means something, so who are we protecting in this exercises, that is driving businesses including medical facilities to other bankruptcy,

    narciso (7404b5)

  51. he’s just recommending the practice popular around 400 ad, in the city state of athens, since that worked out well,

    narciso (7404b5)

  52. speaking of other helpful practices, the corpus christi shooter, was beneficiary of chain migration, he applied for citizenship in syria in 2014

    narciso (7404b5)

  53. I am pretty sure that you just wished harm, and possible death, on a few people I know.

    The comment I want to make to you would no doubt be blocked by this site’s profanity filter. But be assured that I mean every word of what I can’t say.

    The real Demosthenes (no, not the Orson Scott Card one, the other one) would have easily found a way to do it without profanity. But he also would have been perceptive enough to realize that that is exactly what Trump is trying to do, not merely “wishing on” but actually trying to accomplish with his threats and bluster, just so he can have a big crowd cheering him and applauding him.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. The real Demosthenes (no, not the Orson Scott Card one, the other one) would have easily found a way to do it without profanity.

    That may be so. Guess I’m not him.

    As for Trump, you should know by now that I’m not a fan. And his bad behavior doesn’t excuse yours.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  55. he’s just recommending the practice popular around 400 ad, in the city state of athens, since that worked out well,

    Who? Trump? He wants a Goth army to sack Charlotte?

    nk (1d9030)

  56. Speech is not behavior.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. Its days like these that I wish the Bay if Pigs had been a rousing success.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  58. Trump’s poor handling of the crisis may lose him the GOP’s most reliable voters

    One of the most durable political assets that Republicans have enjoyed throughout the 21st century is their edge among Americans 65 and older, who tend to turn out at the polls more reliably any other group.

    But with President Trump’s inept and erratic handling of the novel coronavirus pandemic, he is rapidly losing support among the age group most vulnerable to its ravages — which is a big warning sign to Republicans as they look to the fall. Trump has also been showing slippage in support among the next-oldest cohort, those 55 and older.
    ……..
    …….. One of the most striking is a survey of 44 battleground House districts done by Democratic pollster Geoff Garin during the second week of May.In those districts, voters over 65 said they had supported Trump in 2016 by a 22-point margin — 58 percent to 36 percent.

    But this year, those same respondents are practically evenly divided, with 47 percent saying they are planning to vote for the president and 43 percent expressing an intention to cast their ballots for former vice president Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee. That is an enormous net swing of 18 percentage points.
    …….
    Practically from the outset of the pandemic, Republicans have been sending a message to older Americans, with varying degrees of subtlety, that their health is not as important as that of the economy. Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick actually said it out loud: “Those of us who are 70-plus, we’ll take care of ourselves. But don’t sacrifice the country.”
    ……..
    They (seniors) are the group most attuned to television news, which means they are more likely than younger voters to have seen with their own eyes some of the more bizarre things Trump has done, such as entertaining the possibility that ingesting bleach could cure covid-19. They know, though Trump denies it now, that he was initially dismissive of the dangers posed by the coronavirus. On a daily basis, they have seen his petulance and his blame-shifting, and heard his flat-out lies.
    …….
    Older voters also have outsize political clout in some of the states that will be most critical this fall. Florida, where Biden is leading Trump in recent polls, is the most obvious example. But Arizona, where Trump suddenly finds himself struggling, is also home to a lot of retirees. Nearly 20 percent of the population of Pennsylvania, a key swing state, is 65 or older, which is the eighth-highest percentage in the country.
    ………

    Florida isn’t called “God’s waiting room” for nothing.

    Rip Murdock (32617c)

  59. Very well, pedant.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  60. @56 All those black clothes in the heat of summer time in NC? *shudder*

    Nic (896fdf)

  61. Gryph, NJRob, Dana in Kentucky, you’re on my side on this, aren’t you? Let’s put two groups of 50,000 people each in enclosed arenas for a week and settle the social distancing debate once and for all?

    nk (1d9030)

  62. Trump s eithrr going to make it look like the Governor of North Carolina caved in, (even if the RNC has to reduce its foorprint) or he is going to look like he carried out his threat.

    There is a possibility he won’t find anywhere else that will let the Republican Party hold a bigger convention than they can in North Carolina.

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  63. They can (and do) say all they want about Trump, but some people have done readers of this blog a valuable service: they’ve dropped the pretense, shown what makes them tick and what they are all about.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. Trump is just doing his spit-bubble du jour, and if the North Carolina governor tells him to stick it, he and his Trumpkins will simply deny that the whole conversation ever happened.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. 10. rcocean (846d30) — 5/25/2020 @ 10:40 am

    Hold it in Florida. R’s had the convention in ’68 in Miami beach.

    Also in 1972, where it was moved to after San Diego was
    cancelled.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Republican_National_Convention

    San Diego, California, had originally been selected as host city for the convention on July 23, 1971, with the event expected to take place at the San Diego Sports Arena. Columnist Jack Anderson, however, discovered a memo written by Dita Beard, a lobbyist for the International Telephone and Telegraph Corp., suggesting the company pledge $400,000 toward the San Diego bid in return for the U.S. Department of Justice settling its antitrust case against ITT.[1] Fearing scandal, and citing labor and cost concerns, the GOP transferred the event—scarcely three months before it was to begin—to Miami Beach, which was also hosting the Democratic National Conventio

    Sammy Finkelman (45c255)

  66. I propose a trade: Freedom loving Hong Kongers for N.E. liberals.

    mg (8cbc69)

  67. Florida and to a lesser extent AZ have a more self-selected group of older residents as in those successful enough to have planned for and earned enough over their working life to have made the move, granted housing runs the gamut from 55+ manufactured home communities to waterfront (FL) enclaves. Thus those states blocs are not as influenced by the scare tactics of the past or the present.

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  68. 62. Yeah, but I don’t think it’s really a threat to anyone’s health, to begin with. That’s where you and I might differ.

    Gryph (08c844)

  69. Given that the GOP platform could be reduced from a 58-page booklet to a one-page summary with ten bullet points, perhaps they could shorten the convention as there would be a lot less policy to talk about.
    The new “platform” would be a good thing as it appropriately matches Trump’s kiddie-pool-depth intellect.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  70. I thought Paul was joking.

    Silly me thinking there’s anything too loopy for this White House to suggest.

    From his link:

    Two sources said they recalled Kushner making a more sweeping point — that they should rethink using the word “freedom” altogether in the GOP platform because polling showed it doesn’t appeal to African Americans.

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. Actually, Kushner’s main point is very on target

    From his seat at the center of a long table, Kushner told senior White House and campaign staff that more of their policies should be drawing people to the party, so they ought to eliminate alienating language.

    Kishnevi (54fe57)

  72. so they ought to eliminate alienating language.

    Such as “President Trump”? 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  73. From his seat at the center of a long table, Kushner told senior White House and campaign staff that more of their policies should be drawing people to the party, so they ought to eliminate alienating language.

    I think this is good, and I don’t care who suggested it. The GOP has boxed themselves in with an almost-antiquated messaging on a number of issues.

    Dana (0feb77)

  74. Whatever is decided, attendees might want to take a pass on the beer:

    http://www.yahoo.com/news/anheuser-busch-plan-beer-expired-214631683.html

    urbanleftbehind (9b6dcd)

  75. Nk,

    I’m beginning to think you’re broken.

    I’m worried about it, too, NJRob. I guess I’m not as tough as I hoped I was. 100,000 dead Americans in less than three months, and 1,000 more guaranteed every day for the foreseeable future, is turning out to be more than I can shrug off.

    nk (1d9030)

  76. yes when you have a mayor and governor who are killing people as policy, yes I wouldn’t be sanguine either, and that applies across five states.

    narciso (7404b5)

  77. american greatness has its price mr nk

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. I’m sorry to read that nk. Outside of the NYC extended area, we’ve done as well as any nation in responding to the Wuhan Flu. What do you expect?

    NJRob (857135)

  79. Nonsense, Rob. We are not even close to several other nations.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  80. I’m sorry to read that nk. Outside of the NYC extended area, we’ve done as well as any nation in responding to the Wuhan Flu. What do you expect?

    NJRob (857135) — 5/26/2020 @ 6:41 am

    Except for Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans etc. Basically we did well mostly in areas where there weren’t people.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  81. NJRob, If you look at total weekly deaths from all causes in 2020 vs the last 5 years it’s pretty clear that something started killing a LOT of people in calendar week 12. No worry about categorization errors since it’s all in.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  82. Additional thought, if you assume that medical professionals are getting it wrong 1 our of 5 times it’s still 80K dead.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  83. And that ASSumes that all the errors are in one direction. They are not, and the under-count may be very significant, and way more than the over-count.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  84. #70 Montagu:

    Personally, I like the shrinking of the platform. The platforms are a dead letter from the moment they are introduced. A short one may be a more honest document, and an easier document to hold people to.

    Kushner, by law of averages, is going to get it right occasionally.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  85. Time123,

    I’m not denying there’s a bug going around that’s very harmful to a limited number of people. It was made worse by poor leadership locking infected people in with high risk people. I continue to state that the so called cure, which hasn’t cured anything, is way worse than the disease and that there is a financial and political incentive to continue the lockdowns and expand people’s dependency on government.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  86. @87, it will be hard to see the effects of social distancing for a while yet. The claim that people are continuing the lockdown for political reasons doesn’t seem to match the actual behaviors in the states. For instance, Michigan is still on lockdown until June 12, but retail shops are open, small gatherings are allowed, and in the rural parts of the state bars and restaurants are open at 50% capacity.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  87. NJRob (4d595c) — 5/26/2020 @ 8:22 am

    Rob, you’re missing one important fact: the economic impact of the virus would be fairly severe whether or not we were under government ordered lockdowns. We’d be in a massive slump no matter what.

    Kishnevi (7c118c)

  88. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/24/whitmer-censors-self-trump-federal-aid/5254420002/

    Not political Time123?

    I’ll tell you why some politicians are gradually backing down. It’s because the people are ignoring the politican’s demands and they want to pretend their orders have power. Just like my idiot governor did by “granting” us the right to have more people over for a BBQ Memorial Day weekend. People were doing it anyway. The roads are back to heavy traffic. People have decided they’ve had enough.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  89. Here’s a link to some mortality data from the UK. It shows a similar pattern as the US. Picked the UK because it takes American politics out of the explanation.

    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1265301261068484613

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  90. Actually, they’re having very similar political spats over there.

    Do you know who Dominic Cummings is?

    Kishnevi (7c118c)

  91. NJRob,
    That doesn’t remotely refute the point that I made. It does show that she was listening when Trump told the press that he’d instructed VP Pence not to return calls to governors that aren’t ‘nice’ to him.

    Your other point matches Mobility data that shows people started distancing before the orders and stopped before the orders were lifted. Of course, it also directly refutes your previous claim ppl were keeping the the lock down in place to hurt Trump.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  92. @92, I’m sure they are. But it’s not about Trump.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  93. It was made worse by poor leadership locking infected people in with high risk people.

    Dr Daniel Griffin, the NY doctor in the Virology podcast that Simon Jester told us about, said it was the hospitals and doctors that insisted the State send patients back to nursing homes. They felt they would need the hospital beds and they thought it was the safest thing to do. In his most recent podcast (TWIV 617 @ 27 min) Dr Griffin said they are changing that recommendation now and for the future if Covid resurfaces this Fall. He seemed to feel it was medicine, not politicians, who are responsible for that decision — or, as he called it, that “mistake” in sending patients back to those facilities.

    DRJ (15874d)

  94. Another example of how medicine is statistics-based (e.g., clinical trials) not based on gut feelings or individual experience. Doctors are not comfortable with going with the flow, primarily because humans are so different. But the statistics can lead us to macro trends that work on most patients.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. When I had my stroke, I had Cadillac private insurance and I was sent to the hospital’s rehab unit to convalesce. When my father had his hip replacement, Medicare would pay only so much for hospital rehab and he had to convalesce at a nursing home or come home. So, I’m not saying that was necessarily the case in New York, but I have a strong suspicion that the bean counters were involved along with the doctors.

    nk (1d9030)

  96. https://mobile.twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1265249196829028358

    Here’s an article from lefty outlet politico expressing political fear of reopening because it might help the economy and therefore Trump.

    NJRob (22b4c9)

  97. @74

    From his seat at the center of a long table, Kushner told senior White House and campaign staff that more of their policies should be drawing people to the party, so they ought to eliminate alienating language.

    I think this is good, and I don’t care who suggested it. The GOP has boxed themselves in with an almost-antiquated messaging on a number of issues.

    Dana (0feb77) — 5/25/2020 @ 6:23 pm

    …that’s pretty damn smart to be honest. Its surprising that it took this long…

    Not sure how Trump could be that ‘all encompassing BIG TENT’ candidate though. But, it may be effective for those downticket GOP’ers.

    whembly (c30c83)

  98. 96. If it’s doctors recommending sending CoViD-positive patients to nursing homes, that strikes me as bordering on medical malpractice. How could licensed medical professionals screw that up so badly, particularly in light of the fact that no hospital I am aware of ended up in danger of being overloaded at all?

    Gryph (08c844)

  99. Dr. Griffin, I don’t know where your politics are, but I’m pretty sure you have blood on your hands along with a good chunk of New York State’s medical association.

    Gryph (08c844)

  100. Also, for the “zOMG! 100,000 people dead!” crowd, roughly 8000 people die daily of all non-CoViD-19 causes combined in the USA alone. 100,000 people dead of any cause (and who knows where those numbers really are with all the numbers inflation and testing screw-ups) represents approximately 12-and-a-half days worth of deaths from any other causes besides CoViD-19. And here we are.

    Gryph (08c844)

  101. Trump is correct to pull out of NC. We don’t need a convention of 10 people, all wearing masks. Move it to Texas, GA or Florida.

    rcocean (846d30)

  102. As for Trump, you should know by now that I’m not a fan.

    Who would go to the GOP Convention, to vote to nominate Trump and cheer him, who was not a fan? Many Republicans (and most real Republicans who’ve voted in every primary they could) are simply accepting the ascendance of the Yahoo wing for the moment, knowing the coming disaster will at least spell the end of Trump.

    Of course someone in 2023 will be going on about how we never had REAL Trumpism and testing every candidate’s past fealty. There are still Peronistas.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. False equivalence much?

    Leviticus (b3a900)

  104. My prior comment was directed at Gryph. By such standards, the Vietnam War was just another week.

    Leviticus (b3a900)

  105. @103: Those numbers doesn’t really say what you think they do. Since many types of deaths are down (particularly accidental deaths like traffic accidents and drownings), COVID-10 deaths are a larger proportion of deaths than first glance. Car crash deaths are down by 2/3rds, for example. So the normal 480K deaths that might be expected over the last 60 days is reduced somewhat and the 100,000 Covid-19 deaths are even a bigger portion of them than at first glance.

    And yes, there are testing screw-ups but it is nearly impossible that they result in an OVER-count. There are many reasons, from political coverups to not testing people who die at home alone, that suggest that there is an UNDER count.

    Trump’s opinions on this are irrelevant as the man is innumerate.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. 40,000 people die each year in traffic accidents. I have never known someone who died that way in over 60 years of knowing people. In the last frucking MONTH, I’ve known 2 people who died of Covid-19 (known them well enough to talk to them the day before they went into hospital).

    Any equivalence to “normal” is entirely lost on me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. “And here we are.”

    It’s not over my dude.

    Davethulhu (0ed007)

  108. Cracking Up KAREN’s Up

    KAREN’s up, she’s getting ready to go
    Had enough, she can’t take any more
    No masks, that she won’t take
    This is too real and there ain’t no escape
    It scares the daylights
    It makes a nightmare
    She’s tense and she’s nervous
    Everybody all around be
    Shakin’ hands and sayin’ howdie
    She don’t think it’s funny no more

    KAREN’s up, like a worn out shoe
    Ain’t sick, but the ill’s leakin’ through
    She’d run, but there ain’t no place
    That’s safe, and it’s wrecking her
    Wrecking her

    It make her shiver, it make her shake
    Make her a Nazi, or maybe Stasi
    Everybody havin’ fun
    She don’t know how they can carry on
    ‘Cause she don’t think it’s funny no more
    KAREN’s up

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


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