Patterico's Pontifications

4/30/2020

Why I Have Problems Believing Tara Reade’s Current Accusation Against Joe Biden

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:27 am



I am very skeptical of Tara Reade’s allegations against Joe Biden, and I would like to memorialize some of the reasons for that. First, she gave a completely different and much milder account just last year:

Alexandra Tara Reade said that in 1993 she was in her mid-20s when Biden, then a senator from Delaware, touched her several times making her feel uncomfortable. Reade said her responsibilities in the senator’s office were reduced after she refused to serve drinks at an event — what she called a desire of Biden’s because he liked her legs. Reade said she felt pushed out and left Biden’s employ in August 1993 after some nine months.

A spokesman for Biden couldn’t be reached for comment.

“He used to put his hand on my shoulder and run his finger up my neck,” Reade said. “I would just kind of freeze and wait for him to stop doing that.”

That is a very different allegation than “he put his fingers in my vagina without my consent.” And what’s interesting is that she pointed the newspaper to a friend who she said would corroborate the claim, and the friend went exactly as far as Reade did and no further:

A confidant of Reade’s at the time, granted anonymity by The Union, confirmed that Reade relayed the story shortly after the events occurred.

“Back then, back there, things just happened,” the friend said.

In context, “the story” is a story about Biden mistreating her and touching her inappropriately, not about sexual assault. Reade has tried to explain all this by blaming the reporter:

I was going to tell the whole thing… the whole history with Biden… But the way I was being questioned, it made me so uncomfortable that I didn’t trust it. And no offense to the reporters out there, it’s just maybe that’s something that can be learned, how to talk to somebody who got… Because I just really got shut down… And the narrative [they] really wanted it to be was that it wasn’t a sexual thing. Like don’t say it’s sexual. And so I was like, okay, I guess I can’t really say the whole story

But the thing is, she told this story to the Washington Post, which wrote earlier this month:

The Post has interviewed Reade on multiple occasions — both this year and last — as well as people she says she told of the assault claim and more than a half-dozen former staffers of Biden’s Senate office.

In interviews with The Post last year, Reade said that Biden had touched her neck and shoulders but did not mention the alleged assault or suggest there was more to the story. She faulted his staff, calling Biden “a male of his time, a very powerful senator, and he had people around saying it was okay.”

What’s more, Reade eventually wrote up her own story, presumably in her own words — not only omitting anything about Biden putting his fingers in her, but affirmatively asserting that “this is not a story about sexual misconduct”:

I am not a “snowflake.” I like to be touched, a lot. I am an affectionate person. However, I like to decide who touches me and when.

I did not understand or have the words back then to describe how I felt, but only sensed power moves and body language that I did not like. There was not yet the framework as there is now.

I did not like Joe Biden’s hand on me not for the reasons you think, it is because I am the alpha in the room too. Again, I like to be the one who chooses who enters my space and in what way.

We are sexual beings and we are all trying to figure out how to express this aspect of ourselves at work and home lives, it is a journey our society is on right now. But this is not a story about sexual misconduct; it is a story about abuse of power. It is a story about when a member of Congress allows staff to threaten or belittle or bully on their behalf unchecked to maintain power rather than modify the behavior.

And how did she describe the conduct in this self-penned piece? The same way she had told several publications previously: that Biden had been creepily touchy in the way we have all seen him be with many women in public.

I was told that Sen. Biden wanted me to “serve drinks at a event” because he “liked my legs” and thought I was “pretty.”

. . . .

My troubles had just started. Sen. Biden would touch me on the shoulder or hold his hand on my shoulder running his index finger up my neck during a meeting. Again, I did nothing. It was uncomfortable. Again, because it was a kind of dominant gesture, and I do not like to be dominated. But he did this often to me, others, he was demonstrative. I believe these gestures were not so much about “connection” but establishing dominance in the room. I kept silent when he did this. I respected him but I feared him.

In recent months, however — after having voted twice for the Obama/Biden ticket and put up tweets supportive of Biden — Reade became a Bernie supporter and changed her tune regarding what Biden had done.

I am told that women often are reluctant to make allegations of sexual misconduct by powerful men because of the way they are attacked — and to be sure, in her self-penned piece, Reade describes encountering “Internet trolls” (which actually sounds like mild harassment, but it’s likely to get much worse now and I can understand not wanting to go through that). I am told such contradictions are understandable. Maybe they could be — although I have a very difficult time seeing how a true victim of sexual misconduct would write the words “this is not a story about sexual misconduct” rather than simply failing to disclose it — but we must assess her credibility. We don’t know that her story is true. And so the clear inconsistencies here matter. Many people — #MeToo zealots, Bernie supporters, and Trump supporters alike — want to start from the assumption that Reade is telling the truth, and construct apologias for her inconsistencies based on that assumption. (I’m even told it’s not an inconsistency but that she disclosed only part of the story. Well, is this a story about sexual misconduct or is it not?) That’s not how it works. You assess credibility based on all factors.

So what about the corroboration?

Well, I have a problem with some of it. First, we are told that Reade’s brother backs up some of her story. But here’s what her brother told the Washington Post earlier this month:

Reade’s younger brother, Moulton, said she had told him parts of her experience with Biden but not the alleged sexual assault.

“I heard that there was a gym bag incident . . . and that he was inappropriate,” Moulton said. “I remember her telling me he said she was nothing to him.”

A few days after that interview, Moulton sent the text saying he wanted to clarify his remarks. He wrote that he recalled Reade telling him in the early 1990s that Biden had cornered her and put his hands under her clothes.

That’s still not “he penetrated me with his fingers” and it’s exceedingly odd that he forgot that detail. Then there is the friend who recently came out supporting Reade’s story in every detail, including the sexual assault. This woman cheerfully says she’s always supported Biden and will vote for him in the fall. What?

LaCasse told Insider that in 1995 or 1996, Reade told her she had been assaulted by Biden. “I remember her saying, here was this person that she was working for and she idolized him,” LaCasse said. “And he kind of put her up against a wall. And he put his hand up her skirt and he put his fingers inside her. She felt like she was assaulted, and she really didn’t feel there was anything she could do.”

. . . .

“We were talking about violent stories,” LaCasse said, “because I had a violent situation. We just started talking about things and she just told me about the senator that she had worked for and he put his hand up her skirt.”

LaCasse acknowledged that coming forward to support an allegation against the Democratic presidential nominee “may have repercussions for me.” But she said she has no political ax to grind and intends to vote for Biden.

“I personally am a Democrat, a very strong Democrat,” she said. “And I’m for Biden, regardless. But still I have to come out and say this.”

I mean, okay. You can’t always predict how people will behave. But I can’t be alone in finding that odd.

I completely agree that there has, to date, been a seeming double standard in the volume of coverage of Christine Blasey Ford/Kavanaugh compared to this. The only plausible distinction I can see is that Blasey Ford was coming to testify in public, on television, giving sworn testimony, in a single hearing that would make or break a Supreme Court nominee. Here, the office sought is even more substantial, but it’s not coming to a head in a single televised hearing. That said, there’s still a pretty glaring double standard and we all see it.

But you can argue the double standard without behaving today the same way Democrats behaved in treating Blasey Ford’s story. It’s rather delicious watching the “Believe All Victims” crowd get torched by their own standards, but let’s not become that crowd ourselves.

Is it possible Reade is telling the truth? Sure, it’s possible. Does it seem very likely, given what we know now? Not from where I sit.

155 Responses to “Why I Have Problems Believing Tara Reade’s Current Accusation Against Joe Biden”

  1. In other words, you are taking the same position you did concerning the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh. That’s a good thing.

    I doubt there’s any way to prove Miss Reade’s accusations, any more than there was concerning Dr Ford. What amuses me is that the left are doing a 180º turn on how they view accusations of sexual misbehavior from the Kavanaugh hearings.

    We can’t prove guilt or innocence on Miss Reade’s accusations, but we sure can prove hypocrisy on the part of the left.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  2. Oh, cool! I got in the first comment!

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  3. So what about the corroboration?

    The Larry King call by her mother also does not support her most recent, sexual assault, version of the story.

    It does not suggest that criminal behavior of any kind was involved, and really suggests the opposite, since her mother says that going to the press (but not the police) was her only option.

    Her mother also says she didn’t go to the press “out of respect” for the senator, which seems inconsistent with the sexual assault narrative.

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. Tucker Carlson Highlights Sen. Gillibrand’s Brett Kavanaugh Outrage vs. Her Joe Biden Defense and It Is Brutal

    https://www.redstate.com/sister-toldjah/2020/04/30/tucker-carlson-highlights-kirsten-gillibrands-brett-kavanaugh-outrage-vs-her-joe-biden-defense-and-it-is-brutal/

    There’s nothing more corrupt than institutional feminism. And if you want proof, look no further than Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York. Two years ago, Gillibrand wanted Brett Kavanaugh, his wife and family destroyed. He was guilty, she said — she could feel it.

    […]

    Has there ever been, in the last 235 years, a dumber person to serve the United States Senate? Probably not.

    Her argument was Brett Kavanaugh has not demanded that the FBI forensically go through his entire life. He doesn’t appear to trust the FBI, therefore, he must be guilty. No trial needed.

    Well, on Tuesday, Gillibrand got her chance to respond to the allegations — the credible allegations — that Tara Reade has made against Joe Biden. Even if you haven’t already seen this, we bet you can guess what her response was.

    […]

    Has Joe Biden begged the FBI to take a close look at his personal life over the past 50 years? Oh, he hasn’t. He must be guilty.

    That’s no longer Gillibrand’s position. Why? Because political circumstances have changed.

    Jake (4c234f)

  5. It’s certainly plausible that she chose to discuss a less traumatic incident before sharing a more traumatic incident. Consider a woman who tells you that her ex hit her, and a year later she tell you her ex raped her. Assuming her ex both hit and raped her, you wouldn’t call that changing her story, she just wasn’t comfortable sharing the rape at that point.

    Of course, it’s also perfectly plausible that she’s lying. That’s the problem with the whole #metoo thing, there really no way to tell whether allegations like these are true.

    ShelbyC (70114f)

  6. I mentioned the USA Today piece by a veteran federal prosecutor in another thread, but it’s pretty damn thorough, and it’s interesting how it tracks with Patterico’s observations. There are a lot of shortcomings in the accusation.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  7. This woman cheerfully says she’s always supported Biden and will vote for him in the fall. What?

    That’s in order to say her motives are not political, as indeed she explicitly says.

    It only proves that what she said was scripted.

    And I think I’ve heard this “I have no political ax to grind” type of thing before in other political cases..I think with Brett Kavanaugh and with Roy Moore. The lawyers crafting these statements (maybe sometimes the same lawyers) always make sure to include it.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  8. Lol ‘seeming double standard’.
    _

    The issue isn’t believing or disbelieving, it’s treatment by the media and the ridiculous double standard. The Dems don’t matter, they judge by which party the accused belongs to.
    _

    Brent Scher
    @BrentScher
    ·
    It’s now been 5 weeks, so we figured it was time for an update.

    5 weeks, 19 interviews, and 142 questions for
    @JoeBiden
    with no mention of sexual assault claim.

    _

    Is there anyone on the planet who believes the media would be treating this the same if it was a Republican accused.

    Oh well – this is the kind of stuff that got Trump elected…..
    _

    harkin (9a8c5f)

  9. It’s Putin’s fingerprints I smell in this, not Biden’s. And the Trump camp is very grateful. Spasíbo za pómoščʹ, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

    nk (1d9030)

  10. This is the court of public opinion, more specifically, of democratic public opinion. They had a certain standard with Ford, they had a certain standard with Al Franken, so this requires a bit of mental jujitsu.

    Team R already has accepted that a bit of alleged, and admitted, sexual assault is fine, the flip flop back to having a dim view now is also hypocritical.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)


  11. Rich McHugh
    @RichMcHugh
    ·
    New: Biden camp refuses to open up Senate papers that could shed light on accuser’s claims — but has sent operatives to look through records

    https://businessinsider.com/biden-refuses-open-senate-papers-accusers-claims-2020-4?utmSource=twitter&utmContent=referral&utmTerm=topbar&referrer
    _

    They can’t send Sandy Berger…
    _

    harkin (9a8c5f)

  12. Then there’s the telephone call her mother (and all clues indicate it was indeed her mother) made to the Larry King show o August 11, 1993) which it is said backs up her story, but in reality , pretty clearly indicates she’s talking about someone, or several people, other than the Senator himself.

    And I don;t think even the putting his hand on her shoulder and running his finger up her neck happened, because he probably never got close to her. She;s only complaining about that in 2019.

    The transcript of the beginnin of the call is here (although possibly there was something later that would spoil the story even more)

    https://theintercept.com/2020/04/24/new-evidence-tara-reade-joe-biden

    KING: San Luis Obispo, California, hello.

    CALLER: Yes, hello. I’m wondering what a staffer would do besides go to the press in Washington? My daughter has just left there, after working for a prominent senator, and could not get through [to him?] with her problems at all, and the only thing she could have done was go to the press, and she chose not to do it out of respect for him.

    KING: In other words, she had a story to tell but, out of respect for the person she worked for, she didn’t tell it?

    CALLER: That’s true.

    She could not get through to whom?

    A. Biden. Who else?

    Why would going to the press be of some value?

    A> To get Senator Biden’s attention.

    Why would she hesitate out of respect – why would she still have respect for him – if it was
    something Biden himself did?!

    This is clearly talking about other staff members – doing something. Something maybe not even sexual at all.

    What her mother says makes no sense if it was something Biden himself did.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  13. Klink and Paul both tarring Republicans for leftists bad behavior. Why is that?

    I’m 50/50 on the accusation. Biden clearly thinks he’s above the law. It’s why he calls people lying dog faced pony soliders and other absurd things. These accusations are serious and according to the media’s track record with Trump and Kavanaugh should be thoroughly investigated. Instead, they’ve been doing their best to wipe them… with a cloth.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  14. nk @9: It’s Putin’s fingerprints I smell in this, not Biden’s

    And now what? She’s got Russian relatives? What kind of jobs do they have?

    Is that even true, though, by the way? Or it is just an excuse ti be in contact with someone?

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  15. “They had a certain standard with Ford, they had a certain standard with Al Franken, so this requires a bit of mental jujitsu.”

    What takes mental jujitsu is comparing the allegations and evidence against Franken (multiple credible accusers, photo evidence, allegations recent, Franken finally admitting to some of the accusations) and Kavanaugh (30 years removed, flat-out denial, so-called witnesses failing to confirm, ‘victim’ caught lying etc.).
    _

    harkin (9a8c5f)

  16. Klink and Paul both tarring Republicans for leftists bad behavior.

    Where did they do that?

    Biden clearly thinks he’s above the law. It’s why he calls people lying dog faced pony soliders and other absurd things

    That sounds quite a lot like someone Biden is running against. Is it not bad when Trump does it?

    Radegunda (2df498)

  17. Nic noted that the belt and pantyhose she should have been wearing in the office in 1993 would have gotten in the way. It would at least have affected what went on enough to affect the way she told er story.

    (And I can add, that a younger person *, or a Russian, might not know abot the tyoe f clothing she would have worn.)

    * Her lawyer is probably of the right age, but the task of drafting an accusation might have been delegated to somebody younger, just like I concluded was likely in the Roy Moore case with Beverly Young Nelson (the 15-16 year old who worked in the Olde Hickory House) where there were some anachronisms or ear anachronisms.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  18. There’s only one reason for someone to get breathless about how dreamy Putin is. It’s to show some loyalty. It will be fascinating to hear all the details about Trump’s campaign’s fully collusion with the KGB dictatorship when the DOJ actually conducts an unobstructed investigation.

    Oh well – this is the kind of stuff that got Trump elected…..

    A) the GOP media really freaked out about these kinds of accusations recently, then they did the same thing, only slightly worse. They mask this in ‘Tara Reade is commentary on the metoo movement’ but it’s just hypocrisy. They would have done this to Kavanaugh quite happily, if he were a democrat. Flooding the air with this scandal isn’t really hurting Biden because it is getting it out of the way. Now the only meme that people will buy is that Biden is not fit to lead due to his old age. Even that helps Biden because it just sets expectations so damn low.

    B) The GOP is really cocky about Trump’s fluke win. 2004 is the only popular vote the GOP has won in the last 530,000 years. They lost the House but… the GOP is used to losing and knows how to lose so much that it’s very amusing how the mindset is that ‘hillary lost so all polls are lies’. Biden is up by double digits despite a fractured D party (A problem with a solution). The economy is horrible and public sentiment on Trump’s handling of COVID is hardened and fairly negative (very negative if you consider how recent the crisis is).

    C) the GOP has nowhere to go. They can’t unf*** their immigration stance. They can’t unf*** themselves on spending and corporate welfare. They can’t unf*** themselves on social politics. They can’t return to principles of conservatism because they don’t have principles. Trump isn’t spitballing insane miracle cures because he has a whole bunch of good stuff in his playbook.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  19. Neither party has any moral standing. Republicans willingly elected Trump, even while knowing about his past behavior with women. So it is hard to listen to cries of hypocrisy by those on the right who supported Trump, knowing what they knew. With that, though, there was certainly a double-standard with regard to Blasey Ford and Kavanaugh. Democrats, like Republicans, should feel obligated to hold their nominee accountable, even if Republicans chose not to. The thing that is missing here, is that everyone should want every elected official investigated for any claims of sexual misbehavior against them. The victims should be heard publicly. The accused should be heard publicly. Voters have a right to know exactly who and what they are voting for. It should matter. However, we have already seen that to most people, and certainly to the two political parties, it really doesn’t. But that doesn’t change the fact that this is another way to hold our politicians accountable. And which side of the aisle they are on should not matter one damn bit.

    Dana (0feb77)

  20. Team R already has accepted that a bit of alleged, and admitted, sexual assault is fine, the flip flop back to having a dim view now is also hypocritical.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/30/2020 @ 9:49 am

    Yep

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  21. Ths is the Medium article Tara Reade wrote about

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190404043945/https:/medium.com/@shewrites94/why-a-liberal-democrat-supports-vladimir-putin-f54ca2a3a405

    Why a Liberal Democrat Supports Vladimir Putin

    Alexandra Tara Reade, J.D.
    Nov 27, 2018

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  22. Great post! I am in violent agreement with this. There are lots of holes in the accusation, and it clearly requires a need to beleive to believe it. The most damning thing is Biden’s unwillingness to address it. As far as her changing the story to make it more offensive, it could be that she was ashamed or wanted to limit the accusation for some reason of self-preservation.

    In most cases where these asserted behaviors are accurate, there are many victims and they start to speak out once the first victim gets heard.. Cosby, Clinton, Weinstein, etc. We haven’t heard that yet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. This is a bit different from Kavanaugh. Her charges are definite as to time and place, she made several contemporaneous reports and there is a potential hard record of one of them. With Kavanaugh the charges were so vague as to time and place that they were unrefutable, and her “reliance” on memory allowed her to waive off any purported witness’s contrary recollection.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Klink and Paul both tarring Republicans for leftists bad behavior. Why is that?

    What “tarring”? Please explain how one short paragraph did any such thing.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  25. Bernie endorsed Biden on April 13, 2020, which was about three weeks after Reade renewed her claim (from the prior year) and just one day after the NY Times published an article on her claim.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. NJRob,

    I don’t see any negative GOP comment by Paul, and this was Klink’s comment:

    Team R already has accepted that a bit of alleged, and admitted, sexual assault is fine, the flip flop back to having a dim view now is also hypocritical.

    What is untrue about that? I am really curious why you think that is unfair.

    DRJ (15874d)

  27. What Dana said (#19). Agree 100%.

    Would only add that, (1) isn’t Tara Reade a Bernie supporter, so if one wants to assume a political motivation here (and isn’t everything assumed to be political these days) it may be to torpedo Biden so Bernie can get the nomination after all, (2) funny how the media and political actors of every stripe seem to pay attention to allegations like these only in election years, (3) Biden may be guilty anyway, there’s certainly no lack of evidence that he likes to touch women whether they want him to or not and maybe he went a bit too far, or way too far, and (4) I wish sports would come back. I’d much rather be debating whether every MLB pitcher should throw inside on Astros batters than more of the same sort of allegations that go back at least as far as the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. I may join Patterico in backing Amash because I sort of like him anyway and supporting a candidate like that would free me from having to think about politics for the rest of 2020.

    RL formerly in Glendale (40f5aa)

  28. The GOP is really cocky about Trump’s fluke win. 2004 is the only popular vote the GOP has won in the last 530,000 years.

    This may be hyperbole, but it’s flat out wrong. The GOP won majorities in 5 out of its last 7 presidential wins, and by all accounts won a majority in its 1960 loss if you only count non-fraudulent voting.

    The lowest total ever in a GOP win was 1860, when Lincoln won with 39.65% of the vote. Of course they were the BNP then.

    Of the GOP’s 23 wins, 17 were with absolute majorities, 3 were with pluralities and 3 were purely electoral college wins.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. I have a hypocrisy problem with:

    1. A Believe all Women enthusiast who dumped majorly Kavenaugh but who tip-toes around this; and

    2. A Believe all Trump denials, Access Hollywood Tape Truther, but gets all high dudgeony about Biden getting a free pass on this.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  30. The GOP is really cocky about Trump’s fluke win.

    As far as it being a fluke, it was predictable and many did. Yeah, he barely won a few of those states, but he could have won even without PA and MI. The “fluke” was that neither party fully understood how widespread the dissatisfaction with their bipartisan trade and [effective] immigration policies were.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. What is untrue about that? I am really curious why you think that is unfair.

    DRJ (15874d) — 4/30/2020 @ 10:28 am

    It’s whataboutism and not actually acknowledging the lefts hypocrisy, but instead trying to move the charge to be against Republicans.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  32. And it’s not a one off DRJ, but instead consistent behavior on thread after thread.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  33. *Of the GOP’s 24 wins, 17 were with absolute majorities, 4 were with pluralities and 3 were purely electoral college wins.

    Forgot to include Lincoln.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. It will be fascinating to hear all the details about Trump’s campaign’s fully collusion with the KGB dictatorship when the DOJ actually conducts an unobstructed investigation.

    The same DOJ will find that W plotted 9/11 and that Mulder was right about Roswell.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. Exclusive: Trump says brushes off polls showing Biden leading presidential race

    President Donald Trump told Reuters on Wednesday he does not believe opinion polls that show his likely Democratic presidential opponent, Joe Biden, leading in the 2020 race for the White House.
    ……
    “I don’t believe the polls,” Trump said. “I believe the people of this country are smart. And I don’t think that they will put a man in who’s incompetent.”
    ……
    Polls conducted this week by Reuters/Ipsos about a general election matchup showed that 44% of registered voters said they would back Biden in the Nov. 3 election, while 40% said they would support Trump.

    More critical for Trump, a recent poll by Reuters/Ipsos of the three key battleground states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania had Biden with a 45%-39% edge over the president. Trump’s victories in those states in the 2016 election helped propel him to the White House.
    …….
    Trump told Reuters he did not view the election as a test of how he did with the pandemic.

    “No, I don’t think so. I think it’s a referendum on a lot of things,” Trump said. “I think it’s going to be a referendum on all the things we’ve done and certainly this will be a part of it, but we’ve done a great job.”
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  36. Trump Officials Are Said to Press Spies to Link Virus and Wuhan Labs

    Senior Trump administration officials have pushed American spy agencies to hunt for evidence to support an unsubstantiated theory that a government laboratory in Wuhan, China, was the origin of the coronavirus outbreak, according to current and former American officials. The effort comes as President Trump escalates a public campaign to blame China for the pandemic.
    …….
    ost intelligence agencies remain skeptical that conclusive evidence of a link to a lab can be found, and scientists who have studied the genetics of the coronavirus say that the overwhelming probability is that it leapt from animal to human in a nonlaboratory setting, as was the case with H.I.V., Ebola and SARS.
    ……..

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  37. ShelbyC wrote:

    It’s certainly plausible that she chose to discuss a less traumatic incident before sharing a more traumatic incident. Consider a woman who tells you that her ex hit her, and a year later she tell you her ex raped her. Assuming her ex both hit and raped her, you wouldn’t call that changing her story, she just wasn’t comfortable sharing the rape at that point.

    It’s also plausible that they are the same incident, that she was traumatized enough that she still held things back, soft-peddled the story a bit.

    Of course, it’s also perfectly plausible that she’s lying. That’s the problem with the whole #metoo thing, there really no way to tell whether allegations like these are true.

    There’s frequently no way to prove or disprove such stories when they are contemporaneous, much less twenty-seven years in the past.

    Our esteemed host has gone through his reasons for not believing Miss Reade, and what he said was reasonable. Personally, I take no position on whether they are true, or even whether I lean to one side or the other, because there’s just no way to prove anything. I simply want to take political advantage of the left’s reaction to this, vis a vis the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  38. This may be hyperbole, but it’s flat out wrong. The GOP won majorities in 5 out of its last 7 presidential wins,

    The GOP won majorities most of the time it won? Wow that’s um … basically meaningless.

    2016, dems won majority

    2012, dems won majority

    2008, dems won majority

    2004, GOP won

    2000, dems won majority

    1996, dems won plurality, GOP certainly didn’t even come close though

    1992, same as 1996

    1988, GOP won

    1988 is exactly 530,000 years ago as far as modern politics goes. Since that ancient age, the GOP’s got a single popular vote win.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  39. 37… an honest man, doing the best he can…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  40. The same DOJ will find that W plotted 9/11 and that Mulder was right about Roswell.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 10:49 am

    I wish it were so far fetched. I really do. But they met at the hotel, some of Trump’s guys were convicted, Trump asked Putin for help on national TV, and of course the investigation under Trump’s cops has been utterly corrupt.

    Let’s just agree it would be good for the country if the truth came out from a DOJ that can investigate this issue without interference from the perp.

    Senior Trump administration officials have pushed American spy agencies to hunt for evidence to support an unsubstantiated theory that a government laboratory in Wuhan, China, was the origin of the coronavirus outbreak, according to current and former American officials. The effort comes as President Trump escalates a public campaign to blame China for the pandemic.

    The lab was collecting thousands of viruses. Even if COVID 19 wasn’t created in a lab, it seems really odd that the lab researching coronavirus making the leap to humans was 11 inches from the bat pudding pops. And China’s government seems ruthlessly evil. I don’t think it’s appropriate for US intel to be leaking information that helps China, even frankly truthful information. Let China make its case with whatever credibility it has. If we don’t have a good case against them we should just keep our mouths shut and enjoy the improved footing anyway.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  41. I don’t think they are equivalent – no two cases are equivalent, really.

    But looking at the facts is important. It can never be “Believe all [anything]” or “Women lie every time.” Patterico and I have seen cases which the answer is clear, and others where the answer is less clear.

    Aside: I appreciate 21/Sammy Finkelman’s comment and link – I did not know that before.

    JRM (de6363)

  42. Forgot to include Lincoln.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 10:47 am

    I love it when the party of the KKK and neo nazies trots out Lincoln because it’s so honest.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  43. Dustin (e5f6c3)

  44. The MSM set the #meetoo standard and they should be held to it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  45. It’s whataboutism and not actually acknowledging the lefts hypocrisy, but instead trying to move the charge to be against Republicans.

    One standard, applied to all, Rob. Here’s what I said 19 months ago about Kavanaugh.

    I don’t believe Ms. Ramirez because she has zero evidence and she didn’t have the stones to testify, and Ms. Swetnick has zero credibility (and zero evidence and zero corroboration). What remains, then, is Ms. Blasey Ford. I’m still reserving judgment until I hear Judge Kavanaugh later today. However, I don’t think I learned anything new, evidence-wise, so I’m leaning toward the French and the “more not than likely” standard, and also this.

    But it’s also very important to note that Dr. Ford’s testimony has changed nothing about the underlying evidence in the case. She has made her claim, there are no corroborating witnesses. No one else can place the two of them together at the party — not even the witnesses she’s identified. She is inconsistent or forgetful on a number of key points. She can’t even identify who brought her to the party or who took her home. He’s denied the claims and will deny them again.
    That’s thin — very thin — evidence of sexual assault. The evidence is no stronger this afternoon than it was before Dr. Ford testified. When this controversy began, I said that her claims were serious enough that, if true, Kavanaugh should not be confirmed. Further, I said that that she should only have to carry the lowest burden of proof — to establish that her claims were more likely than not. If you step back, look at the totality of the evidence and consider that she has brought no new evidence to the committee, I still don’t believe she has met that minimal burden.

    (http://www.theforvm*dot*org/rosy-and-kavanaugh-update-3-its-not-over-yet)
    Sounds eerily like what I just said.
    There are two hypocrisies going on here, Rob, one is the Biden v. Kavanaugh coverage by mainstream media (although there are differences in standards between a presidential candidate and lifetime Supreme Court appointment), and there hypocritial coverage is obvious.
    The other is applying a higher standard of conduct for your political opponent and allowing much lower standard of conduct for the politician you support.
    It’s not about “whataboutism”, it’s about hypocrisy and situational tribal morality.
    The shoe was on the other foot for the Democrats back in 1992, when they said it was okay to nominate and support a philandering sexual abuser like Bill Clinton for president. Republicans took the standard that low and lower when they nominated a candidate with a long record of sexual misconduct, sexist comments, adultery, and banging porn stars. Much as I’m not going to vote for the guy, Biden is nowhere that low standard that you defended and helped set.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  46. The MSM set the #meetoo standard and they should be held to it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:10 am

    You criticized weak standards, until even weaker standards helped Trump. Then you promoted weak crap with the defense that the hypocrisy is a commentary on how bad it is to do… what you’re doing.

    Bottom line, we all see Biden rub women inappropriately. It’s not a theory. We literally see him do this. Obviously he did this to every attractive woman who entered his office. This was one version of Reade’s story and it’s the version we can believe. She has some real credibility issues and like most surprise Trump allies, she’s in Putin’s pocket somehow. The GOP doesn’t need her to make the case that Biden is a creep.

    All the GOP needs to make that case is to have a principle that being a pervert is a bad thing in a president. All the GOP needs is a sense that telling the truth matters.

    Oops and oops.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  47. Dustin wrote:

    All the GOP needs to make that case is to have a principle that being a pervert is a bad thing in a president. All the GOP needs is a sense that telling the truth matters.

    Next time we have a candidate who is as pure as the wind-driven snow, we will. Come 2024, we’ll hear the debunked rumors that Nikki Haley had an affair with Donald Trump.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  48. #38. Since Jimmy Carter won 50.08% of the vote in 1976, Democrats have only gained majorities in 2008 and 2012.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. Next time we have a candidate who is as pure as the wind-driven snow, we will. Come 2024, we’ll hear the debunked rumors that Nikki Haley had an affair with Donald Trump.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:33 am

    I would be so grateful if we could just dump Trump for Haley.

    #38. Since Jimmy Carter won 50.08% of the vote in 1976, Democrats have only gained majorities in 2008 and 2012.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:33 am

    That’s not true. Hillary had a majority of several million. And Bill Clinton didn’t have a majority due to a three way race where he decisively won twice.

    Deny it if you want, but the GOP loses a lot. In the last generation they only won a majority one time, with Bush 43 (a great president during a war). Trump’s win was a fluke and it’s convinced a lot of Trump fans that all they need is outrage to win another fluke.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  50. Sorry about my formatting but as a conservative it is my destiny to not get what I hoped for.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  51. Also, Jimmy Carter is super irrelevant. I’d say Reagan is irrelevant but I don’t want to get DCSCA excited. Maybe the 1990s are relevant a bit because that’s the last time the GOP had a soul (contact with America). But any time before that? Might as well pretend the gettysburg address is relevant to Trump’s party.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  52. 49… so #38 is basically fake news, as usual… thanks.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  53. I love it when the party of the KKK and neo nazies trots out Lincoln because it’s so honest.

    My God are you ignorant of history, or just so around the bend in Trump-hatred that it colors all your thinking.

    I remember when the KKK was active in the South — not read about it, remember it — and every last one of them were Democrats. JFK sided with them when he was a Senator, gutting Ike’s attempt to enforce voting rights in the South.

    Yes, Strom Thurmond, but for every Thurmond, there were 5 Democrats who remained Senate committee chairman. Grand Dragon Robert Byrd was Senate Majority Leader for gawdssakes, not to mention President Pro Tem of the Senate 2003-2007 — 3rd in line for the Presidency.

    But, fine, write your own version of history. Just don’t confuse it with reality.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. That’s not true. Hillary had a majority of several million.

    “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

    A majority is 50% + 1. A plurality is “one more than 2nd place”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. See here for a handy Presidential election resource

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. My God are you ignorant of history, or just so around the bend in Trump-hatred that it colors all your thinking.

    Everyone knows that the KKK used to be the terrorist wing of the democratic party, Kevin. It is not ignorance of history to reflect on the honest reality. It is not anymore.

    Yes, Strom Thurmond, but for every Thurmond, there were 5 Democrats who remained Senate committee chairman. Grand Dragon Robert Byrd was Senate Majority Leader for gawdssakes

    Everyone knows Senator Byrd was the grand dragon and the democrats kept him around long after the 1964 civil rights bill and LBJ’s incredibly cynical flip flop.

    It is not ignorance of history to post a link proving the KKK endorsed the GOP, the neo nazis celebrate the GOP, and republican candidates often adopt their ideology.

    I love ya man, but people who disagree with you aren’t necessarily stupid. I don’t care about the GOP and do not care about some centuries old scoreboard where the GOP gets credit for great acts in the distant past.

    It is arguable whether MLK was a Republican, but it not arguable that he would be one today.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  57. 54… hard to make one’s way through an entire comment, when what’s written is 63.4% bad faith, 31.2% bullschiff. The rest is filler…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  58. It is arguable whether MLK was a Republican, but it not arguable that he would be one today.

    MLK, sr was a Republican, as were all blacks of his generation. They remembered Wilson’s wholesale firing of blacks in public service and resegregation of the government.

    His son claimed to be of no party, but probably would have been a Democrat after 1965, even if he still wouldn’t be allowed in any local Democrat club.

    My objection is to you painting the GOP as a bunch of nazis and klansmen — a blood libel — when the source of that libel is “progressive democrats” trying to rewrite history. It would be fair to say that Donald Trump was ordered up from central casting to embody everything the Democrats have ever said about Republicans, but that doesn’t make it true about Republicans. I won’t defend Trump though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. A majority is 50% + 1. A plurality is “one more than 2nd place”

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:45 am

    Did the GOP win a majority in 2016 Kevin? How many majorities has the GOP won in modern presidential elections? The answer is still one. You said it was five our of the last seven if you only count the seven where the GOP won, going back before they invented the alphabet. It’s one though.

    You associate the GOP with a lot of things I do not. Winning is one of them.

    just so around the bend in Trump-hatred that it colors all your thinking.

    I do not mince words. Trump is the worst. But Trump is not the problem. The GOP has slowly and sadly evolved into a desperate loser party that tolerates the David Koreshes and Tim McVeigh types of our day. They hate brown people. They want a muslim ban. They want a $1200 check. They think Obama is secretly from Kenya. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about democrats either, but at least lefties have a lefty party.

    Look at the utterly cynical glee at Tara Reade. Not because the GOP believes her. Because it really hopes to run against Bernie Sanders. Desperate.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  60. I love ya man, but people who disagree with you aren’t necessarily stupid.

    I did not, and would not, call you stupid, but your comment displayed a lack of knowledge and/or a desire to ignore contrary facts. I might suggest you were younger than me, which is always a safe bet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. How many majorities has the GOP won in modern presidential elections?

    “Modern” as a limitation can be used to prove anything.

    In my lifetime, and likely yours — a reasonable definition of “modern” — the GOP won clear majorities in 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988 and 2004. The first three were landslides. If you allow post-WW2 to be modern, there are two more. If you ignore Mayor Daley’s blatant cheating in 1960, you could add still another (although the electoral vote still goes to Kennedy, with Ohio).

    The Democrats have won majorities in 2008 and 2012. Before that you have to go to 1968. Those are their only majorities since WW2.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. Ooops. Forgot Carter’s 50.08% in 1976. My bad.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. It’s so easy to forget Carter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. Did the GOP win a majority in 2016 Kevin?

    Did I way they did? They lost a plurality of the popular vote, but won the electoral vote. HILLARY might have won had she run an electoral vote campaign, but she didn’t. Trump did.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. It’s odd, but the way the electoral vote is structured, the Democrats had an edge so long as they held the “solid South.” When they lost that the edge swung to the GOP. The reasons that the GOP has maintained that edge have far more to do with the incredibly leftist platforms the Dems have embraced than to any lingering love of Jim Crow. In fact the GOP edge in smaller states has increased, due to the inherent conservatism of rural America.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. By the way, I had a choice this morning about posting about the idiotic attacks on the Flynn prosecution, or this. I wanted to write about both but had time for only one. Now there is some jackass in moderation complaining about that, saying it’s all anti-Trump all the time. The only occurrence of the word “Trump” in this post was to note that many Trump supporters are (like Bernie supporters and #MeToo zealots) all in on Tara Reade. Meanwhile, Trump fans would not like what I have to say about the supposedly explosive Flynn documents, because I think it’s all horse hockey, that Jonathan Turley’s piece is drivel, and that the judge will be supremely unimpressed with the mundane things revealed in this dynamite document dump.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  67. It’s so easy to forget Carter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 12:06 pm

    LOL true.

    Probably one of the worst presidents in history, somehow forgiven because he’s a nice person. In a lot of ways he is Trump’s opposite, yet Trump is an even worse president.

    Did I way they did? They lost a plurality of the popular vote, but won the electoral vote. HILLARY might have won had she run an electoral vote campaign, but she didn’t. Trump did.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 12:08 pm

    I thought you challenged my point that the GOP only won a majority once in the last 63.2 billion years.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  68. Other than him pleading guilty, the Flynn case depended on written notes by the FBI (they do not record apparently). This made their case utterly dependent on the reputation of the agents in question and the assumed veracity and integrity of their notes.

    There is enough damage done to those things to make it less likely a jury would convict, and if ANY THING squirrely happened to the documents and was not relayed to the defense, the presumption should fall in Flynn’s favor.

    I don’t really care about Flynn or Trump, but DoJ lawyers get away with an awful lot that most prosecutors would not tolerate in their own department. I would see this change. The people who drove Sen Stevens out of office should have done time.

    Even people who are notionally guilty (Stewart, D’Souza) are sometimes prosecuted out of animus (or Javert-like zealotry), which distorts the purpose of the laws they are charged under.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. I did not, and would not, call you stupid, but your comment displayed a lack of knowledge and/or a desire to ignore contrary facts. I might suggest you were younger than me, which is always a safe bet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:57 am

    I am young and dumb sir.

    But I know the history of the Klan and the democrats. I used to say stuff like about the party of Lincoln. I wish I could say that stuff now, and I’m honestly a little bitter about it.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  70. I thought you challenged my point that the GOP only won a majority once in the last 63.2 billion years.

    I did, but I was not including Trump’s squeak past the electoral college. As I said, there were 5 in my lifetime (6 if you count Ike’s second win, but I wasn’t paying much attention to things past Goodnight Moon and Dr Seuss).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. What you or any of us think about this Flynn development is probably neither here nor there. What’s important is what the government does in follow-up.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. I’m honestly a little bitter about it.

    This, too, shall pass.

    Probably the most important political lesson of my lifetime, was standing at Checkpoint Charlie in the summer of 1989 and looking at pure evil, and despairing over the seeming permanence of the Wall. Seeing all the names and dates of those who died above the graffiti did not help.

    Then, 3 months later the Wall was gone without a shot being fired.

    This, too, shall pass.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. What’s important is what the judge does (unless hacky Barr inserts himself to declare that this was a bad prosecution when it was not). Anyway Trump will pardon him regardless.

    Patterico (2a2056)

  74. The GOP is stronger than Donald Trump. He just has the tactical advantage at the moment, but that cannot last.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. I will go this far: Her accusations have more support and credibility than the accusations against Kavanaugh. Doesn’t mean they are true. You make a good point that we can judge the double standard of the metoo movement, the media and Democrats to be atrocious while also giving Joe Biden the presumption of innocence we all should have.

    Russ from Winterset (fae2bd)

  76. Yeah, we’ll see. Covington & Burling got caught hiding thousands of pages of Flynn’s file from Flynn’s new lawyer.

    Sullivan just gave Covington & Burling until Monday to certify under oath they have turned over Flynn’s entire file to him.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. Let’s flip this over for a second. Biden is, at best, limited in his ability to criticize Trump on some of Trump’s weakest points.

    There will be lingering doubts about his innocence with Tara Reade because he does get hands on with women. And I’m trying to imagine Biden bashing how Trump speaks under pressure. He’s not going to be able to do it. And Trump’s impeachment (!) is a subject that doesn’t make Biden look like a hero of ethics. He’s the 40 year politician with rich family profiteering unfairly. Not exactly like Jared Kushner claiming my ventilator, but not totally unlike it.

    Tara Reade is just the second episode of how dreadful this election year will be. I expect a lot more infighting.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  78. “I don’t believe the polls,” Trump said. “I believe the people of this country are smart. And I don’t think that they will put a man in who’s incompetent.

    Displaying the keen self-awareness and introspection for which he’s famous…

    Dave (1bb933)

  79. I will go this far: Her accusations have more support and credibility than the accusations against Kavanaugh. Doesn’t mean they are true. You make a good point that we can judge the double standard of the metoo movement, the media and Democrats to be atrocious while also giving Joe Biden the presumption of innocence we all should have.

    Russ from Winterset (fae2bd) — 4/30/2020 @ 12:41 pm

    Nicely said.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  80. @67

    Meanwhile, Trump fans would not like what I have to say about the supposedly explosive Flynn documents, because I think it’s all horse hockey, that Jonathan Turley’s piece is drivel, and that the judge will be supremely unimpressed with the mundane things revealed in this dynamite document dump.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 4/30/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    No… what’s horse hockey about this was the predicate to even interview Flynn in the first place. FBI had no rational reason for this.

    What’s horse hockey here, is the fact that initially the FBI cleared Flynn and it was only when Mueller Special Counsel looking for a scalp that indicted Flynn.

    What’s even more horse hockey here, is the fact that we now have documentary evidence that Mueller’s crew threatened Flynn’s son in order for him to cop a plea bargain. Your seemingly indifferent attitude regarding that revelation is well noted. Either that, or it’s your prosecuturial bias is coming in thick here.

    whembly (f54d88)

  81. Thank you Dustin.

    Russ from Winterset (fae2bd)

  82. Barring a Trump pardon, and when the dust settles, I think we’ll find that Judge Sullivan conducted himself professionally and competently in the face of an incredible partisan onslaught against him. Flynn already stood before the judge once and confessed under oath that he perjured himself.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  83. What’s even more horse hockey here, is the fact that we now have documentary evidence that Mueller’s crew threatened Flynn’s son in order for him to cop a plea bargain. Your seemingly indifferent attitude regarding that revelation is well noted. Either that, or it’s your prosecuturial bias is coming in thick here.

    whembly (f54d88) — 4/30/2020 @ 12:49 pm

    I’ve heard this asserted but I haven’t see anyone back it up.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  84. Meant to ask if you could provide a link to the information you find compelling to back up that assertion.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  85. Regarding Flynn? I think he was railroaded by prosecutors eager to flip him and get testimony against Trump. Threatening his son with prosecution under the Logan Act is particularly laughable. That law has only been prosecuted twice, 1802 and 1852, and both defendants were acquitted. You take that law to a judge, and you probably do us all a favor by getting it taken off the books for good. However, you are still out of pocket on expenses unless you have pro bono lawyers.

    But before I go off on the prosecutors in this case, I think the emphasis should be on the absolutely abysmal defense Flynn’s original lawyers put up. When prosecutors overreach, most of the time they have defense attorneys reigning them back in. I wonder why Flynn’s team rolled over and voided their bladders so quickly in this case? In order for an adversarial system to work, the two sides need to be adversaries.

    And I really hope Trump doesn’t spend all his time beating the “Flynn was railroaded” drums. Really? The guy you threw under the bus was the victim of corrupt prosecutors? Yeah, while that may be true, maybe using that to your advantage isn’t the best look for you. You think?

    Russ from Winterset (ecdd4d)

  86. Under the heading What Could Possibly Go Wrong–

    #AskTheAG: Barr is taking Twitter questions on coronavirus issues, and it’s getting ugly

    The Justice Department offered the public a rare opportunity on Wednesday morning to submit questions to Attorney General William P. Barr for a “nationwide #AskTheAG Q&A session on May 1.” Specifically, it asked via Twitter for questions “on how DOJ is protecting public safety & combatting fraud, price gouging, hoarding, & more” during the coronavirus pandemic.
    The response, as of early Thursday morning, was voluminous but surely not what the department had in mind when it asked for questions about the pandemic.

    Only a fraction were even about it, and they veered off from the suggested topics, perhaps fitting at best under the “& more” category.

    “If you’re considering action against Governors who don’t reopen fast enough, will you take action against those who open unsafely?”
    ……
    Collectively, the Twitter response to a coronavirus-related Q&A was an angry accumulation of every grievance anyone has against Barr and the Trump administration, with almost no topic left untouched, along with a relatively small sampling of pro-Trump comments from the other side. It was a reminder of Barr’s transformation in just a few years from a widely respected but uncontroversial private practice lawyer and attorney general under President George H.W. Bush to a figure whose very name sets off bitter recriminations.
    ……
    A large share of the responses to the Q&A were unprintable either because of foul language or libel or both.

    Perhaps that’s why the initial DOJ invitation said Barr would take questions, but made no promises that he would answer them.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  87. @86, that’s not evidence that they threatened his son. Also, there’s a case to be made that he also violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

    But leaving that aside, based on his sworn testimony he lied to the FBI, knew it was a crime when he did it, and did it anyway. Also based on his sworn testimony he wasn’t threatened in any way. He can recant his testimony but he hasn’t done that.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  88. Oh, to put in an on topic comment

    I don’t fully believe her accusation, Biden did something that he shouldn’t have, and probably something a president would be too decent a person to do.

    Much of the big media is doing a terrible job covering this. But they have time to recover.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  89. It’s whataboutism and not actually acknowledging the lefts hypocrisy, but instead trying to move the charge to be against Republicans

    IOW: “There’s nothing wrong with our hypocrisy. It’s the other guys’ hypocrisy that’s insufferable.”

    Radegunda (2df498)

  90. @85

    Meant to ask if you could provide a link to the information you find compelling to back up that assertion.

    Time123 (ca85c9) — 4/30/2020 @ 1:05 pm

    Sauce:
    https://www.scribd.com/document/458177953/Flynn-Supplement-to-Motion-to-Dismiss-April-pdf#fullscreen&from_embed
    Commentary:
    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/495366-something-seems-rotten-in-flynns-case-and-maybe-others-too

    whembly (f54d88)

  91. @91, Thank you for the link. It will be interesting to see if the government had a legitimate reason to think Jr. committed a crime. Since Jr worked at the lobbying firm and they tried and convicted his business partner (Judge has overturned and it’s on appeal) they may have felt he committed a crime. IANAL but my understanding is that is the key question that determines if a such an agreement is allowable or not.

    The link to the federalist doesn’t show much. Strzok wanted to keep the case open, not sure how that matters.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  92. @93

    Strzok wanted to keep the case open, not sure how that matters.

    It matters because this about-to-be-closed case was dated 1/4/17, the same day Strzok requested to keep it open, who then switched gears to finding if Flynn violated the Logan Act. Gee… a guy who was fired from the FBI conducting an investigation in bad faith.

    As Stalin’s flunkie Beria stated: “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”

    whembly (f54d88)

  93. Don’t hold your breath!

    https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1255658020174016521

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  94. 93… it’s a tell how often those who don’t give an inch and are the most dogged in going after Trump will say “I’m not sure it matters…” and go out of their way to give the benefit of the doubt to obvious bad actors.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. OT… new docs released… https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1255912835001057289

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. Marcy Wheeler has been covering the Mueller investigation fairly thoroughly, including the Flynn, Stone, Manafort spin-offs. The title to her post is quite descriptive: Republicans Outraged That National Security Threat Was Treated Like National Threat. A coupla paragraphs:

    Somewhere, the circumstances have gotten missed. Not only did the FBI discover that Mike Flynn had called up a hostile foreign government and told them not to worry about being punished for tampering in our election. But it was also already public that Mike Flynn may have been secretly working for Turkey while he was claiming to represent Trump’s national security interests. Flynn would go on to testify, under oath and before a grand jury, that indeed, he had been knowingly pursuing a secret deal with Turkey at the time he sat in on Trump’s first national security briefing. The entire time, he testified, he knew that he was really working for Turkey even though he and his firm went to some efforts to hide that fact.
    The FBI might be excused for believing that Flynn would be treated according to one of two ways: firing or prosecution. Because they had Flynn on tape calling up a country that had just attacked our own and told them not to worry about being punished. And they had good reason to believe he was still hiding details about having worked for a frenemy government during a period he retained security clearance. In a sane world, when there’s clear evidence the National Security Advisor has done those things, firing or prosecution are the most obvious options.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  97. Never trumpers here seem to want to out do msnbc in discrediting tara reade. This reminds me of the calls over at democratic underground for chris hayes to be fired for bringing up the taboo subject of tara reade. Chris hayes was the first msnbc nightly host to break the news embargo last night on his show.

    asset (5107fc)

  98. 23. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 10:21 am

    This is a bit different from Kavanaugh. Her charges are definite as to time and place,

    I don’t think its any more definite than the accusations of Christine Blasey Ford. (well, maybe a bit more because CBF wasn’t originally sure of the year.)

    All we have as to time is that it took place in the spring of 1993 – say anytime from March 1 through July 2. It would more likely be before May 15 since she says a wall was cold.

    The only thing we have as to place is:

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-nyt-tara-reade-joe-biden-sex-assault-allegation-20200412-j45k5kgvhfhurlhnsvlh4on4pa-story.html

    She said she had tracked down Biden to deliver an athletic bag when he pushed her against a cold wall, started kissing her neck and hair and propositioned her etc.

    Yes. Joe Biden had decided that now was the time to begin to emulate Senator Bob Packwood.

    she made several contemporaneous reports

    Every person in Senator Biden’s office that she says she complained to (about anything) denies hearing anything from her. Neither does anybody else who worked in the office that the media can find recall being told this.

    and there is a potential hard record of one of them.

    If you mean her mother, the call to Larry King points to some kind of trouble with other people that she could not reach Senator Biden about (because she never had any substantial contact with him.)

    And the call was not as described by Tara Reade before the video surfaced.

    If you mean there might be some record in Senator Biden’s papers, and he saved it, then there also wold have wanted her to keep silent about it, and, especially with what was going on with Packwood, would have t=tried to get her to sign a non-disclosure agreement if it was true. (If it was not true, then it s more likely he wouldn’t.)

    Tara Reade says nothing about being offered money or a good job or being pressed to sign a non disclosure agreement. Why didn’t that happen??

    If you mean people not in her family she allegedly told in the 1990s, I think some lawyers have away of finding “witnesses” and they had at least 150 people, maybe 600, to choose from, and we would have to believe that while she didn’t tell too many people it up in casual conversation.

    With Kavanaugh the charges were so vague as to time and place that they were unrefutable,

    Yet they were refuted. Brett Kavanaugh had practically every day since 1980 accounted for. And of course there was the lack of corroboration where there should have been

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  99. DRJ (15874d) — 4/30/2020 @ 10:23 am

    Bernie endorsed Biden on April 13, 2020, which was about three weeks after Reade renewed her claim (from the prior year)

    It wasn’t a renewal

    The first time she made this kind of an accusation was in a podcast interview released Wednesday, March 25, when majr coronavirus closings had started.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  100. If Biden is supposed to be the moral choice over Trump, he should be investigated to ensure his squeakycleanliness.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  101. New New York Times story:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/business/media/tara-reade-joe-biden-media.html

    The New York Times is now defending its reporting.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  102. Gee… a guy who was fired from the FBI conducting an investigation in bad faith.

    He was ostensibly fired – with questionable justification – for privately expressing political opinions over his FBI-provided cell phone. As his pending lawsuit for wrongful termination points out, the Trump administration “consistently tolerated and even encouraged partisan political speech by federal employees” – as long as they praised the Orange and denigrated his opponents, of course.

    In fact, Strzok’s firing was obviously retaliation for criticizing Trump while he was a candidate.

    The Inspector General found that there was no bad faith or wrong-doing in his conduct of any official duty.

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. The CBS Evening News reports that Joe Biden will address the allegations in cable TV news interviews) tomorrow.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  104. The hard-hitting journalists Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. Trump says he would consider bringing Michael Flynn back into the administration

    President Trump on April 30 said he may not need to pardon former national security adviser Michael Flynn, because he has been “exonerated.”

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  106. The FBI went after a guy they viewed as a political adversary to punish him.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  107. Open Old Lovable Groper Joe’s archives, let’s get busy…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  108. Oh man, I wonder what the Babylon Bee Will give us in anticipation? Somebody, please give us a glimpse of the future.

    Biden’s handler’s had better not let this go out live. “Heavily edited” will be given not only a new meaning, but a creative euphemism.

    felipe (023cc9)

  109. Bill Melugin
    @BillFOXLA

    BREAKING: Governor Newsom has just announced he will order ALL beaches in ONLY Orange County closed, rather than all beaches in state as memo said. He called recent crowds at OC beaches “disturbing”. There is a protest planned at Huntington Beach pier tomorrow at noon. @FOXLA
    __ _

    Lol
    _

    harkin (8f4a6f)

  110. A QAnon Devotee Live-Streamed Her Trip to N.Y. to ‘Take Out’ Joe Biden
    An Illinois woman inspired by pro-Trump QAnon conspiracy theory videos traveled to New York City on Wednesday with more than a dozen illegal knives and threatened to kill former Vice President Joe Biden, according to police and her own social media posts.

    New York police officers arrested dancer Jessica Prim, 37, on Wednesday after she began to act strangely on a city pier. In a live video Prim posted on Facebook of her arrest, she ranted about saving children and claimed she had come to New York because of an internet conspiracy theory video about a “cabal” of pedophile Democrats.
    …….
    At another point during her arrest, Prim said she believed Donald Trump was talking to her directly during his coronavirus press conferences. Prim is facing more than a dozen counts of criminal possession of a weapon over the knives, as well as a marijuana possession charge, according to the New York Daily News.
    …….
    Prim appears to have gone to the pier because she was convinced it was near the U.S. Navy Hospital Ship Comfort, the hospital ship that was sent to New York City to help with the coronavirus pandemic. A faction of QAnon believers have become obsessed with the Comfort, convinced that it’s being used to rescue “mole children” abused by the “cabal.”
    ……
    In fact, Prim had mistaken the U.S.S. Intrepid, a former aircraft carrier that now serves as a museum, for the Comfort.
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  111. O.C. officials criticize Newsom’s order to close beaches as county sees surge in COVID-19 cases

    Orange County officials criticized Gov. Gavin Newsom’s order to close all beaches in the county Thursday, with one supervisor calling the move an “abuse of power.”

    The comments came during a news briefing on the county’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic, which was held just hours after Newsom announced the temporary closure of all local and states beaches in O.C.

    Earlier in the week, the governor had criticized beachgoers who crowded O.C. shores amid a heatwave over the weekend, defying the state’s stay-at-home order meant to curb spread of the novel coronavirus.

    O.C. Supervisor Michelle Steel called the governor’s actions “arbitrary” and said it was an act of retribution against the county.

    “We should be rewarding our communities for practicing safe social distancing, not punishing them by closing down only Orange County beaches and this is not acceptable,” she said. “I will be looking into the right response to the governor’s overreaction and abuse of power.”
    ……
    “The major point of contention that has lead to this situation are a few misleading pictures… taken at the particular angle which made it look as if beachgoers were crowding,” Steel said.

    Supervisor Don Wagner echoed Steel’s statement, saying that the “telephoto lens distorted what was going on on the beach.”

    “It is clear to us that the governor… is basing the decision to single out Orange County on a couple of press photos,” Supervisor Don Wagner said.

    After a media question that mentioned there were also videos of the crowded beaches, Wagner rolled back, saying, “We are not saying there is 100% compliance…”
    …….

    It’s all about optics ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  112. For biographers, Biden’s timeline will be cleaved, and measured as “BTI” (before the interview) and “ATI” (after the interview.

    felipe (023cc9)

  113. “If you’re considering action against Governors who don’t reopen fast enough, will you take action against those who open unsafely?”

    This is from the I-think-it-is-wrong-so-it-must-be-illegal (or -unconstitutional) philosophy.

    The federal govt. has limited authority to tell states how to open or not open their economies. The two areas it DOES have authority in are (a) infringing on individual rights and (b) interstate and foreign commerce.

    Both of those are more likely to be invoked for states that are too restrictive than too lax. Removing restrictions by definition does not impinge on individual rights nor restricts interstate commerce.

    This is basic Constitutional law.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)


  114. Watchdog
    @LibWatchdog
    ·
    This is unbelievable from
    @CurtisHouck

    Mainstream media coverage of Pence not having a mask on got way more air time in 24 hours than the Tara Reade allegations have gotten in 35 days.

    https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2020/04/29/study-liberal-tv-networks-give-pence-not-donning-mask-three-times
    __ _

    A seeming double standard…..
    _

    harkin (8f4a6f)

  115. And taking questions on Twitter is a dumb idea. Twitter reflects the extreme dumbing down of America. The notion that the AG can respond to an intelligent questions, let alone the usual sniping, on Twitter is just stupid.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  116. ‘Biden Admits to Habitual Nose-picking, Says He Does Not Recall “Smelling Reade On My Fingers” ‘

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. Heh, Colonel.

    felipe (023cc9)

  118. Trump World Star and Budding Conspiracy Theorist Lead Protest of Michigan’s Virus Lockdown
    ……
    Carrying American flags and pro-Trump signs—along with their firearms—many people at Thursday’s anti-lockdown rally blatantly ignored the national social-distancing guidelines as they clustered together outside the Capitol in the morning hours to argue that Whitmer’s order violated constitutional rights and demanded a return to public life amid the ongoing pandemic.
    ……
    Though the rallying cry for the event was largely around the need to restore economic activity in the state, the gathering featured at least one Trump-world star, former Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke, and Jason Howland, a budding conspiracy theorist.

    Howland, one of the rally’s organizers posted footage on YouTube last week of empty hospital parking lots, part of a right-wing movement to somehow prove the pandemic is overblown by filming areas where patients aren’t treated. In one of the videos, hospital security warns Howland to leave the property before they call the police.

    “What are they really doing?” Howland said in a video.

    In another, he speculated that tents set up as a temporary coronavirus hospital are actually FEMA camps—a reference to a long-running conspiracy theory that FEMA is about to arrest American citizens and imprison them in “FEMA camps.”
    ……
    He confirmed that armed militia groups were brought in to provide “security” at the rally, but declined to name the militias. In the face of mounting criticism online of the protesters’ attempt to storm the legislative chamber, Howland said his rally-goers were “peaceful,” although he conceded that they were loud.
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  119. Dustin wrote:

    Next time we have a candidate who is as pure as the wind-driven snow, we will. Come 2024, we’ll hear the debunked rumors that Nikki Haley had an affair with Donald Trump.

    I would be so grateful if we could just dump Trump for Haley.

    Well, we could, in theory . . . and watch the complete destruction of the Republican Party as a huge number of the true Trump loyalists decide not to vote. Think back to 1912 on this one, as the dumped-by-the-GOP Trump runs a modern day Bull Moose Party bid.

    Like it or not, Mr Trump was selected by the Republican primary voters in 2016, and just because a lot of people, especially a lot of people here, don’t like their reasons, he still won it by making his case to the voters.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  120. Teh Daily Beast… THE go-to site for true conserving conservatives…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  121. Mr M wrote:

    The GOP is stronger than Donald Trump. He just has the tactical advantage at the moment, but that cannot last.

    Yup, that’s right: he’s what, 73 years old? If he wins re-election, he’ll still be out of office eventually, at 78 years of age. He’s obese and eats absolute crap, and, eventually he will wind up just like everyone else: stone-cold graveyard dead.

    The demise of the Democratic Party was predicted following the 2002 and then the 2004 elections; how’d that work out? The demise of the GOP was predicted following the 2008 elections; that didn’t happen either.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  122. From that Michigan protest…yup, losers, losing losers. The epitome of FreeDumb.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  123. Mike, when do you think you have to be given a Miranda warning, under what scenarios, and why? Be specific.

    I think you’ve been watching too much television.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  124. Groper joe is going on the morning schmoe show. The me too movement has had enough looking like the phony hypocrites they are. They are tired of running interference and told him you have had a month to come up with some phony hippo critical answer to soothe the gullible get your behind out their and b.s. them. wither your ready or not!

    asset (2ba961)

  125. Ignore Mike, he’s a banned commenter and I have deleted his comments.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  126. I’m grateful for issues that reveal partisan hackery and hypocrisy. Years old sexual assault allegations are among the best for that. Absent physical evidence, eye witnesses or admissions against interest, most are little more than he said, she said. Reasonable inferences like Patterico’s may be drawn, but certainty is rarely justified.

    IMO most who assert that Thomas, Kavanaugh, Trump, Clinton, or Biden were/are being metaphorically lynched are partisan hacks or ideological zealots, as are those who proclaim categorically that one or more of the accusers is telling the truth. Any accusee who did what he was accused of deserves all the character assassination he got and then some. Any who are innocent were inexcusably smeared. We don’t and can’t know which is which. All we can be reasonably sure of is that those who proclaim certainty one way or the other are engaged in motivated reasoning.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  127. Biden is a notorious flapjaw. His vanity deludes him into believing that every word that drops from his mouth is minted in the golden currency of Pericles. Vanity is the most conspicuous characteristic of US Senators en bloc, nourished by deferential acolytes and often expressed in loutish sexual advances to staffers, interns and the like. On more than one occasion CounterPunch’s editors have listened to vivid accounts by the recipient of just such advances, this staffer of another senator being accosted by Biden in the well of the senate in the week immediately following his first wife’s fatal car accident. — – Alexander Cockburn, Counterpunch, 8/23/08

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/grabby-joe-bidens-achilles-hand/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  128. It’s not every day that a non-entity gets a chance to alter the course of history,

    Nebbishes of the world, don’t miss your chance! Take out those sexual fantasies, polish them up, and see if you can get a Russian propaganda outlet (that would be Glenn Greenwald’s Intercept) to slip them into the legitimate media. You! Yes, you! … could elect the next President of the United States.

    The Trump organization does not need to “sell” her a $500,000 condo for $50,000. Putin does not need to deposit any amount of rubles into her “cousin’s” Moscow bank account. The chance to finally be somebody, to be a contender, is enough. Instead of what she is now. BTW, what is she now, anyway?

    nk (1d9030)

  129. I don’t know if this is behind a paywall, but Mr. French has an excellent recap of the Flynn situation.
    The Logan Act was always ridiculous, and it would’ve been ridiculous for law enforcement to prosecute him for that, and they didn’t.

    It’s absurd (and blatantly politically-motivated), they argue, for the FBI to investigate violations of the Logan Act. It’s an unconstitutional statute passed in 1799, only two people have ever been prosecuted for violating it, the last prosecution was more than 150 years ago, and no one has ever been convicted.
    In this context, Flynn’s best course of action would have been to either comply with the act or tell the truth about his actions and dare his own administration’s Department of Justice to prosecute (and then challenge the constitutionality of the act if it did). Instead, he chose the worst course—defy the act and lie.
    Moreover, we shouldn’t forget that his lies weren’t confined to the FBI. He lied about his Russian contacts to Mike Pence, Reince Priebus, and Sean Spicer. He was fired for those lies, and though they weren’t criminal they do indicate that Flynn was engaging in a pattern of deception.
    In addition—and this is very important—remember that the case against Flynn involved more than the Logan Act. The statement of offense against Flynn includes his own admission that he lied about his relationship with Turkey in disclosures he filed after Trump fired him.

    There were questions about Flynn even before he wrote that blatantly pro-Erdogan anti-Gulen propaganda piece.
    One, he was fired by Obama because he was found deceptive, with people around him calling his deceptions “Flynn facts”.
    Two, there was his infamous evening in Moscow, sitting at the same table with Vlad Putin and Jill Stein, celebrating the achievements of Russia Today, the Kremlin-controlled propaganda outlet that loyally parroted whatever Putin wanted said.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  130. “The statement of offense against Flynn includes his own admission that he lied about his relationship with Turkey in disclosures he filed after Trump fired him.”

    Reminder that this relationship included a plot by Flynn and his son to return a Turkish asylum seeker (Gulen) in return for $15 million.

    Davethulhu (744195)

  131. get out of the way klink Americans are taking back the life you want them to forfeit
    only thugs want to isolate the voters

    mg (8cbc69)

  132. the tree of liberty needs new blood

    mg (8cbc69)

  133. fire wray and make General Flynn head of the FBI

    mg (8cbc69)

  134. obama and all you people are running for the fox holes
    hee haw has arrived

    mg (8cbc69)

  135. weissman and his ilk need incarceration. Pronto.

    mg (8cbc69)

  136. The May Day parade in Seattle today is going to be one of my very favorites. It’ll just be idiots in cars screaming out of their windows, in Olympia.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  137. The oppressed are not what they used to be.

    nk (1d9030)

  138. https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/05/01/breaking-biden-statement-declares-reade-allegations-arent-true-never-happened/

    So it’s down to a coin toss.

    For me, it’s all moot. I couldn’t vote for Biden in any event.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  139. The Capitol’s attending physician said Thursday that coronavirus tests will be available for staffers and senators who are ill, but not enough to proactively test all 100 senators as the chamber comes back in session, according to two people familiar with the matter.

    In a conference call with top GOP officials, Dr. Brian Monahan said there is not sufficient capacity to quickly test senators for coronavirus — a contrast with the White House, where any people meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence are tested for the disease. Monahan said test results in the Senate will take two or more days, while the White House has rapid testing.
    https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/05/capitol-physician-says-senate-lacks-capacity-test-senators/

    O/T. But that sorta flies in the face of the Orange Raccoon, dunnit?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  140. I tend to believe the woman. I’ve seen too many vids of Joe not giving people their space. I didn’t watch the Morning Joe interview; I can’t bring myself to watch Biden speak because it’s too cringey when he falters (which is often). And I will still probably vote for him if he is the nominee. Dems need find another nominee asap. This dude may still win but really, we can do better.

    JRH (52aed3)

  141. I saw Mika and Biden this AM. Several things.
    One, Mika knew her credibility would be suspect if she didn’t ask hard questions, and she did her job. Biden was his usual stumbling in-eloquent self.
    Two, Biden was emphatic that it “never happened”. That leaves no wiggle room.
    Three, he agreed to open up Senate archives, and his comments about his records at the Univ of Delaware seem plausible.
    Four, in light of his comments about Blasey-Ford, he’ll come off more as a hypocrite than as a sexual abuser. He would’ve been better off saying that we should take the charges seriously, but should reserve judgment on believability, but he jumped on that same wagon as all the other Democrats.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  142. The oppressed are not what they used to be.

    But the socialist workers’ paradise is!

    Have a Juche-oriented May Day, comrades.

    Dave (1bb933)

  143. I heard short excerpts of what Biden had said on WOR radio. They said he was on for (a little more than?) half an hour.

    He said it wasn’t true, but wouldn’t say no complaint had been filed. He said he didn’t remember a complaint and neither does anybody else.

    But he is apparently kind of afraid that some complaint about something might have been filed so hes not issuing a flat denial about that.

    He noted this was 27 years ago.

    He said he wouldn’t attack her motives.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  144. @135-
    the tree of liberty needs new blood
    Volunteering yours?

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  145. Well yes, after a lot of fluff and folderol, Ms. Blasey Ford finally testified at a televised public hearing under oath. So that’s a distinction.

    But no one is offering that opportunity to “testify at a televised public hearing under oath” to Ms. Reade. And you can bet your sweet bippie that the Dems aren’t eager to hold such a hearing for her.

    I do think that Joe Biden has honestly forgotten what he allegedly did to Ms. Reade. It may, or may not have happened. But the George Costanza standard “it’s not lying if you believe it when you said it” really doesn’t apply here.

    Why? Because Joe Biden can’t remember what he had for dinner last night–or breakfast this morning. He’s lost most of his marbles.

    Skeptical Voter (613a87)

  146. <>

    Yet more evidence that Republicans lack the cognitive capacity to perceive irony.

    AcquiredExpertise (43a288)

  147. “We can’t prove guilt or innocence on Miss Reade’s accusations, but we sure can prove hypocrisy on the part of the left.”

    Yet more evidence that Republicans lack the capacity to perceive irony.

    AcquiredExpertise (43a288)

  148. It just gets worse ad worse. The AP says she told them things that didn’t seem to be true last year and they didn’t run with the story/

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  149. Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue. Trumpablicans are worse than hypocrites. They fawn to vice and deride virtue.

    nk (1d9030)


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