Justin Amash Forms Exploratory Committee for Presidential Run
I think it’s safe to say he’s in.
Today, I launched an exploratory committee to seek the @LPNational’s nomination for president of the United States. Americans are ready for practical approaches based in humility and trust of the people.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) April 29, 2020
I have gone my entire life without having a presidential candidate whom I could support with actual enthusiasm. The closest I came was probably Ross Perot in 1992, because I believed in his message of deficit reduction — but I also found him goofy and did not understand his fixation on NAFTA. I don’t agree with Justin Amash on everything. His views on criminal justice are the typical libertarian contempt for the system. I see the need for surveillance that he rejects. Although I have become more of a pacifist over the years (and always have been to a large degree), I worry a little that thugs might try to push him around.
But he is committed to the Constitution, whip-smart, and one of the most sensible and level-headed people I have ever seen in politics. The fact that I do not agree with him on every jot and tittle of what I assume would be his platform does not mean I cannot support him without reservation.
I’ve always supported voting for who you truly believe in, and not just being a strategic voter. I voted for Perot, for goodness’s sake. I told you to vote for Tom McClintock and not to settle for Ahhnold in the California recall. That said, I understand Amash seems unlikely to have a realistic chance (nobody knows the future), and if I were in a swing state I might vote differently than I will in California, where I feel free to vote my conscience, knowing that my vote won’t make a damn bit of difference.
To me, the only question is this: from whom will Amash take votes? Biden? Or Trump?
Conventional wisdom seems to be that he will take votes from Biden. And that has a lot of the prominent Never Trumpers worried:
There is zero chance – zero – that Justin Amash will win the presidency.
There is plenty of chance that Amash's votes will not come from Trump's cult, but at Biden's expense.
There is a large chance this will reelect Trump.
Thanks for being the new Ralph Nader, @justinamash.
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) April 29, 2020
I admired how @justinamash stood up for the rule of law in Trump’s impeachment. And needless to say, my views align more closely with Amash’s than Biden’s.
But the only real effect Amash could have in this campaign is to enhance Trump’s chances.
This is a terrible idea. https://t.co/lAimU4KEoB
— George Conway, Noble Committee Chair (@gtconway3d) April 29, 2020
On the other hand:
Feels like the conventional wisdom will be "actually, Amash running is good for Trump" when it might be but probably won't be.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) April 29, 2020
I asked Tom Nichols why he thinks Amash would take votes from Biden and not Trump, and here is how he replied:
Sure. Because Trump voters are a cult. We saw this in 2016 and since. They are an immovable, non-poachable bloc. Amash gives voters who might have faced a binary choice a way of protesting while letting Trump slide. This is what happened in 2016, as well. /1
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) April 29, 2020
I am not convinced by that logic:
Trump has a cult, no doubt, but its members do not include everyone who voted for him. Many, many people held their nose voting Trump. Many.
— Patterico (@Patterico) April 29, 2020
That said, even if his reasoning is wrong, his conclusion may be right, for all I know. I have my own poll running on Twitter — of a highly unrepresentative sample of people (my followers) which includes very few Trump fans — and so far the results seem to back up Tom’s intuition.
POLL: ONLY PEOPLE CONSIDERING VOTING FOR @JUSTINAMASH:
If Amash does not/did not run, who would you vote for?
— Patterico (@Patterico) April 29, 2020
Feel free to register your vote if you’re on Twitter.
Putting stock in an online poll of such an unrepresentative group would be foolish, but the poll does tell you that there are actual flesh and blood humans who (if their responses reflect their true feelings) at least today could see switching from Biden to Amash.
Depending on where they live, that could be a problem for those of us who believe removing Trump is the critical goal in the election.
That said, this is a true test of whether America, faced with a choice of two bad candidates, and offered a better alternative, will take it.
Me, I plan to take the better alternative. I will be voting for Justin Amash.
What do you folks think?
Patterico (115b1f) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:24 amThe French approach to presidential voting works for me.
Trump fails one test and Biden the other, so it's Amash the real conservative.
I also question Nichols CW. Again from The Dispatch:
Here in WA State, Trump lost to Hillary by 16 and he’ll probably lose by a larger margin this year, with or without Amash. But like William Goldman said, nobody knows anything.
Paul Montagu (b3f51b) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:33 amI am thinking, “what took him so long?”
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:35 amI think he takes more Trump voters than Biden…
I think there’s a LARGE segment of would-be-Trump voters looking for a “better home” whom absolutely refused to vote for any democrats. I was one of those who voted for Gary Johnson in 2016.
The question would be: how much of a spoiler would he be?
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:39 amI think Trump’s “cult” is barely big enough to keep 1) him from being primaried and 2) to keep his dung beetles in the House and Senate toeing the Trumpkin line. Maybe 16 million tops in already red states. Nowhere near enough to give him the general election. But Amash should avoid Cruz’s mistake of trying to pander to them by handling the Triple Stooge with kid gloves. It won’t do him any good. He should stomp on Trump and them with both feet.
Personally, I think that Justin Amash deserves my vote just for voting to impeach MoeLarryCurly. I’m just glad it’s not Rashida Tlaib.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:40 amThere is no shortage of Republicans I could see myself supporting if they were running for President – DeWine, Hogan, Kasich, Romney – but as a practical matter, I expect to vote for Biden when I consider that the alternative is Trump.
We need to remember that Trump has arranged the Republican Party to make it an appendage of his own campaign and any Republican/Conservative challenger would be immediately starved for campaign funds and media support (Fox, ONA, Breitbart).
Perhaps the Mae West approach is the appropriate one – “Whenever I have to choose between two evils, I always pick the one I haven’t tried yet.”
John B Boddie (f7954e) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:44 amWithout knowing the number of Trump voters that were holding their noses, it’s nearly imposisible to make any serious estimations. Also, because they held their noses last time, doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t this time either. I know people in this boat, and to them Biden is just as much of a no-go as they believed Hillary would have been. They will hold their noses yet again, and vote Trump again. They would not consider Justin Amash because they believe that he might peel off Trump votes, not Biden votes.
This:
Further, if the Biden-Reade incident opens up and gains traction because an actual complaint is unearthed and Reade goes on the record and solidly addressesess the inconsistencies, questions, and holes in her story, Biden could easily be compelled to face direct questioning about it, and that could sink him.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:45 amwhembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:39 am
I’m with Whembly. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 because he was too unknown a quantity to me. Without Justin, I might have held my nose this time.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:46 amI’m a disaffected Republican who desperately wants the GOP to get back to picking experienced, thoughtful, smart, and disciplined candidates…who don’t reflexively and cynically milk nationalism. I’m eager for the “Trump show” to end…as we are flirting with disaster. I disagree with most policy initiatives and priorities of the Democrats…but Bloomberg at least occasionally tried to sound reasonable….and though old….seemed remarkably quicker than Joe Biden. Biden may bring back some “normalcy” to the office but what a depressing argument for a candidacy. He scores low on my leadership priorities. I don’t want to reward Democrats for finding such an uninspiring candidate when posed with such an opportunity. That’s a tough vote.
I will consider Amash….but it would be a protest vote. He’s not especially qualified….doesn’t really have any significant executive experience. Really, anyone can take positions…..the rubber hits the road in how you run things…and how you handle tough calls. Run a department, run an agency, become a solicitor general, move up and become a governor. I mean being a lawyer and working for your father’s company is not especially compelling for why you should run the executive branch and direct our foreign policy. Ideology needs to be informed by experience. Still, I could imagine him running a disciplined and creative campaign…and draw a remarkable contrast with the other two. Provided he doesn’t make the typical LP mistake of coming across as too whacky or hopelessly unprepared…he might be inspirational….and more importantly….honorable…I would at least like to support that……
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:53 amFirst, does the Libertarian party stand for anything? Amash had no problem supporting Romney and McCain, neither of whom are/were the least bit “Libertarian”. And I wasn’t aware that Amash favored any libertarians positions except a belief in low taxes and a dislike of business regulation
I can’t see anyone who voted for Trump in 2016, throwing their vote away on Amash. Trump has a 96% approval rating with R’s. It’s typical of Libertarian’s that rather than vote for Trump who believes in lower Taxes and helping business, they’ll go 3rd Party and help BIden who isn’t libertarian in ANY sense of the word.
rcocean (9d9291) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:55 amNot a chance. There’s no room in American politics for an “honest principled” individual.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:56 amThe good thing from Trump’s Point of View, is that unlike 2016 where Weld and Johnson had name recognition, Amash is a complete nobody to anyone who’s not a political junkie. Maybe Amash can get Flake or David French to be his VP
rcocean (9d9291) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:57 amTom Nichols is an anti-Christian bigot. You can search for his nasty remarks if you choose.
That said, vote for Amash if you’d prefer. I’m glad some have found an alternative.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:57 amNo. I think Justin Amash is a completely dishonest person, and I have no idea what his real views are.
He’s only doing this to help prevent a realistic 3rd party choice from developing.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:58 amI guess if the libertarians were willing to have bill weld – a liberal democrat – as their VP Candidate, they’ll go with anyone.
rcocean (9d9291) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:58 amIn the end.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:00 amSometimes we are offered the choice between 2 bad candidates. First let me say that I don’t know much about Amash except that he was a republican that left the party because of trump. I applaud his stance in that.
Right now, and it is a long time to November, I’m going with Biden. Please understand that I was a republican until August of 2016. There is no way I’m voting for trump, never have and never will.
To me Trump is nothing more than an aggrieved man-child. His Covid Q&A sessions seem to degenerate into finger pointing and constant complaints about media coverage. His answers have shown me that he has a hard time holding a train of thought. He is the worst person to have in a position of power, authority, and responsibility in a time of a national crisis. While he has the power and authority, he will not accept the responsibility. He’s worthless.
While I just gave a negative viewpoint on trump, the part that bothers me is that I didn’t say anything positive about Biden. But I would trust Biden far more that trump.
KenL (6340ff) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:00 amThat’s my $0.02.
Let’s not underestimate how volatile 2020 is. We do not know for sure what Trump or Biden will even be like mentally at that point. Both have been erratic. Both surely have a little collection of scandals to throw at eachother. The economy could be recovering, but probably will be in bad shape in November.
There is a clear preference cascade problem. Lots of democrats don’t really buy into the whole platform and just want to oppose the bad guys that the GOP have evolved into. Lots of Republicans dislike Trump but can’t buy into the long term harm democratic policies would bring. And a whole lot of people do not like this system at all.
A third option would be fought against harshly by all invested in the 2 party system. It’s a fight the nation needs to have as many times as needed though. This is one of those historically crazy years where massive changes are possible.
And even if they aren’t, what exactly does it cost me if I vote for Amash? I do not care for Trump or Biden at all.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:03 amYou may be right, Gryph. I feel like we are in a lifetime of political war, in a particularly intense war zone surrounded by frenzied combatants, and any attempt to be “reasonable” will just get a lot of people “killed,” meaning us. Sure this is hyperbole, but not outrageous hyperbole.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:06 amThat said, vote for Amash if you’d prefer. I’m glad some have found an alternative.
I agree with this sentiment. I suspect this will prove to be a healthy alternative to the hate that has infected so many.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:25 amI can’t and won’t vote for either “major party” candidate.
I’ll take a good, hard look at Amish.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:32 am@8
The Democrat’s actions during these last few years infuriated me more than anything that Trump/GOP may have done. Particularly over the Kavanaugh hearing and the treatment of the Convington kids. My vote for Trump is a tactical decision to keep Democrats away from power moreso than voting for Trump/GOP.
As Dana from Kentucky succinctly stated in previous thread:
https://patterico.com/2020/04/27/tara-reades-former-neighbor-says-that-reade-told-her-about-the-alleged-sexual-assault-by-joe-biden/#comment-2349135
Have you really considered the “…cost of your hatred of him is to also impose all of the policies that the Democrats would inflict on us.” ???
I really don’t know what the solution would be to prevent another Trump or allowing the current crop of Democrat whackadoos in power. It really need to start in grassroots / primary stage in esuring better candidates. But, I 100% prefer Trump’s flaws as POTUS over any current Democrat candidates.
Consider this: Trump’s only lasting change (or damage depending on your viewpoint) are his conservative judges. Which is not insignificant.
Everything else Trump does can be reversed by Executive policy of the next POTUS or a law from the next Congressional cycle.
ON the flip side: Consider the progressive policies that has been enacted over the years and how DIFFICULT it is to claw them back. Examples of those are Abortion laws, Gun laws, Obamacare…etc. If you are remotely conservative, why on earth would you allow your actions to strengthen the current crop of progressive Democrat’s chances to win elections? (obviously, this calculous would change had Democrats moved back towards the center to be more of a blue dog coalition than progressive, or you simply want to protest in a given state (ie, CA or MO).
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:39 amThe mental stability of both Trump and Biden is very much a problem, and with each passing day, increasingly so. At the very least, a contender who still has good mental acuity, can think coherently, speak deliberately and with intention, retain information, and mostly, can still remember who he is at any given minute, is a good thing.
I was recently talking to a young voter, and she is dreading voting for Biden, but she will because she is holding her nose too and voting for the lesser of two evils. It works both ways.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:45 amWhy do you think he’s completely dishonest, Sammy. Is this just an opinion, or is it an opinion based on specific evidence?
Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:46 am@18
Honestly, it’ll probably be down to how well the economy is recovering.
1st Q the economy contracted by 4.8%. Which isn’t as much as I suspected… which if I had to guess, the 2nd Q is going to be really ugly.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:47 amDeezy Eska hardest hit.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:50 amHe may be a bigot when it comes to Indian food, but I looked and didn’t see comments that made him an “anti-Christian” bigot”.
Paul Montagu (3aa2fc) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:52 amJustin Amash is an Arab and, at best, distantly cool towards Israel, Dana.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:56 amGOP Trump: Mentally unwell, incompetent, credibly accused of multiple sexual assaults, bragged about getting away with sexual assault, more corrupt that any president in living memory.
DEM Biden: Senile, leftist, corrupt in the traditionally acceptable way, credibly accused of sexual assault.
Libertarian Amash: Limited experience, smart, sane, no evidence of being corrupt, no credible assumptions of sexual assault.
Is there any possible way Amash could win? Because when i stack them up he’s so much better than either of the other 2.
Time123 (36651d) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:56 amWrong, he’s an American. Justin Amash was born on April 18, 1980, in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Time123 (235fc4) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:58 amSo, I think Amash would make a wonderful candidate, especially since he is way behind in his district and has no chance of maintaining his Congressional seat,” Trump wrote on Twitter.
“He almost always votes for the Do Nothing Dems anyway. I like him even more than Jill Stein!” Trump wrote, referring to the 2012 and 2016 Green Party presidential candidate
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:58 am96% of Republicans approve of Trump. Guess they don’t agree with your Psychiatric diagnosis – Doctor.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:00 am>Trump’s only lasting change (or damage depending on your viewpoint) are his conservative judges.
Depends what percentage of the covid19 deaths you attribute to his administration’s performance.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:02 amTrump has been speaking off the cuff on his CV-19 briefing almost every day for a month. Every verbal misstep has been magnified by x100 by a hostile, dishonest Main stream media. Trump performance has been incredible. Its why his Republican approval ratings are sky high.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:04 amWrong, he’s an American.
To you and me, Time123. To you and me.
Yeah, he hasn’t got a snowball’s chance.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:04 amTom Nichols is an anti-Christian bigot.
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1244765912630202369
From his thread bashing Mike Lindell for sacrificing from his business to make masks as Nichols mocks Christians and insults them.
And it was easy to find.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:04 am“The Democrat’s actions during these last few years infuriated me more than anything that Trump/GOP may have done. Particularly over the Kavanaugh hearing and the treatment of the Convington kids. My vote for Trump is a tactical decision to keep Democrats away from power moreso than voting for Trump/GOP.”
I’m the opposite, in my case it Republicans starting a war under false pretenses and full-throated support for torture, but yeah, making Kavanaugh sad is definitely up there.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:05 amIs he running for President of Israel? But that fact, might cool some of the expected overwrought MSM coverage. Amash – like Johnson/Weld -are just spoilers. Tools of that will be used by the Liberal media to hurt Trump and help Biden. The libertarian party stands for nothing – it is nothing. Except a joke. I’m looking forward to Egg McMuffin mounting a 2nd run and getting the disaffected Mormon vote.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:07 am@33
I don’t do that.
This novel virus is unprecedented and I feel that the Trump administration (minus Trump’s periodic word salads) has done as best as they can do given the information at that time.
However, I’m sure it will be an election topic where folks would blame Trump for “x”. I’m sure the media is looking to turn this into a Katrina-like albatross, ala GWB.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:09 amThere is a good interview with Amash, which took place after his announcement.
This:
Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:09 am“I’m sure the media is looking to turn this into a Katrina-like albatross, ala GWB.”
Do you think that Bush’s administration handled Katrina well?
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:13 amWho IS tom Nichols anyway? Is he another Republican Strategist, who never won anything within the last 10 years?
Wait, I got some energy and googled him.
“Thomas M. Nichols is an academic specialist on international affairs, currently a professor at the U.S. Naval War College and at the Harvard Extension School. His work deals with issues involving Russia, nuclear weapons, and national security affairs.”
And then there’s this:
In The Death of Expertise, Nichols condemns what he describes as the many forces trying to undermine the authority of experts in the United States. He blames higher education, the internet, and the explosion of media options for the anti-expertise and anti-intellectual sentiment which he sees as being on the rise. While conceding that experts do sometimes fail, he says the best answer to this is the self-correcting presence of other experts to recognize and rectify systemic failures.
Okey-dokey. So he’s another well entrenched, globalist/elite/expert, Ivy league grad – naturually,, who just wants Joe Biden or Hillary back in charge so everything can go back to normal and the Liberal Global elite doesn’t have to bother with all the peasants.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:15 am@37
“making Kavanaugh said is definitely up there” is a hell of a gaslight.
The whole outrage wasn’t that Kavanaugh was “sad”. It’s about the butchering of the Due Process and presumption of innocence framework. Additionally, the partisan escalation of judicial nominations as well.
Had democrats succeeded in deep-sixing Kavanaugh, all future nominees would face the same sort of BS.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:15 amMy biggest concern with Amash is the question of just how accommodating he would be to the culture of death?
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:16 am@41
Yes.
The govenor/NOLA mayor royally f’ed up there.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:16 amTrump’s supporters might love him, but overall he’s got the lowest approval of any modern president.
Time123 (36651d) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:17 amIf Amash signals a move toward the “middle” concerning Abortion, then he loses my vote.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:19 amYeah, it looks like Ol’Tommy hates Christians. Just like a good Columbia University Grad student would. IOW, he’s a liberal Democrat who’s probably a bit of a hawk on the Middle East. So, before 2016, that made him a NEO-CONservative. Like jennifer rubin and max boot.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:19 am“Additionally, the partisan escalation of judicial nominations as well.”
The Merrick Garland nomination would like a word.
“Had democrats succeeded in deep-sixing Kavanaugh, all future nominees would face the same sort of BS.”
You guys always say this and it’s never true. “If Roy Moore loses, then every candidate will face unfounded sexual misconduct allegations.”
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:20 amConservatives trying to figure out the best way to get Biden in the White House is surreal.
__
“ but yeah, making Kavanaugh sad is definitely up there.”
Lol complete abandonment of due process and need for evidence described as making sads.
Should say all anyone needs to hear about a Dem appointing the next couple SC justices (plus the next four years of federal judges).
harkin (8f4a6f) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:21 am_
@49
Judge Bork and Judge Thomas would like a word.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:23 amEasy to find, tough for you to comprehend. He was mocking pro-Trump white evangelicals, not the Christian faith.
Paul Montagu (b3f51b) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:27 amThat’s sad. Because the chance of him getting elected are about the same as you
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:28 amCan you be a libertarian and be in favor of the Government restricting Abortion? Either Amash will change or the Libertarians will have to change their “Principles”
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:30 amIt’s about the butchering of the Due Process and presumption of innocence framework.
I almost hate to have to do this, BUT…
The presumption of innocence is a legal fiction ONLY applicable in a criminal matter.
I has no application at all in determining for whom you vote or in a congressional hearing. Not even in civil litigation. Not in your every-day life.
Justice Kavanaugh got all the due process he was entitled to get, and he prevailed against the smears lodged against him.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:31 amYeah, Nichols wasn’t mocking the bible or Jesus (he called the Son of God a derogatory nickname) no, he was a mocking a bunch of Christians he didn’t like and their race. And he did it -without naming them.
Yep. Really./sarcasm off/
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:33 am24. Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:46 am
His entire record.
He has no doubts about any of his positions (that is the impression he conveys) eve when he must know about arguments to the contrary; and acts like nobody should ever honestly disagree with anything he says, and gives no detailed analysis, as he would if he doing something other than trying to fit a political profile.
If he was both honest and independent, he would say some original things. His argument for impeachment was not convincing.
All he does is showboat.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:34 amIf you believe that life begins at conception than you end up with competing principles; the liberty of the unborn and the liberty of the mother.
But it’s sad that you hold the concept of acting on principle to be worthy of mockery.
Time123 (235fc4) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:34 amCan you be a libertarian and be in favor of the Government restricting Abortion?
Sure. Being a libertarian doesn’t mean you are in favor of homicide.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:35 amBush I had one of the highest Presidential approval ratings ever in 1991. And he lost in 1992. Democrats sometimes approved of Bush II – but they didn’t vote for him in 2004. He lost 90% of D’s.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:36 am“Judge Bork and Judge Thomas would like a word.”
Bork’s actions during the “saturday night massacre” alone were enough to disqualify him.
Ragspierre’s response on Kavanaugh also applies to Thomas.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:36 amThat’s the reply I expected. Because no one can tell what SPECIFIC policy libertarians are for or against. That’s why Bill Maher and Bill Buckley could both call themselves Libertarian. Its a clown political philosophy.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:37 amrcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:28 am
You are so right rcocean.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:38 amYep. That’s our Justin
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:39 amThe framers had their own major disagreements and passionately fought for their beliefs. When is the last time Amash wrote his own legislation and didn’t hand it over to a body of lobbyists that wrote it for him?
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:41 amThat’s why Bill Maher and Bill Buckley could both call themselves Libertarian. Its a clown political philosophy.
If one is so blind to every other aspect of a person’s life they can’t discern between people who have used that label, then yah.
It’s like people actually believing your cult leader is a “conservative”. You’d have to be nutz…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:42 amMore from the interview with Amash:
Dana (0feb77) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:42 amNo, he will peel off Biden voters, because he will give primarily anti-Trump people some place to go besides Biden. While primarily anti-Democratic voters who can tolerate Trump will not go to him.
Trump knows this. Granted he might just be lying, but here there is factual basis for it, and s likely what his political consultants are telling him.
– Donald Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:42 amLooks Like Amash is pro-religion in THEORY but not in practice:
In November 2011, Amash was one of nine representatives who voted against a House resolution that affirmed In God We Trust as the official motto of the United States and was the only Republican to do so.[89] On February 13, 2013, he voted against the Federal Disaster Assistance Nonprofit Fairness Act of 2013, which would make all places of religious worship eligible for FEMA grants, stating that bill “skews the law away from fairness by making religious buildings automatically eligible for reconstruction aid when other entities aren’t”.[9
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:46 amWell, sure. Jill Stein gets more attention from Putin than Trump does in the menage a trois.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:47 amSupported Gay Marriage:
While running for the House of Representatives in 2010, Amash supported the Defense of Marriage Act, but in 2013 he advocated repealing it, saying that the “real threat to traditional marriage & religious liberty is government, not gay couples who love each other & want to spend lives together”.[91][92] He supported the result of Obergefell v. Hodges, but said the issue with same-sex marriage was government involvement.[93][9
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:48 amAlways making excuses for leftist bigotry. Amazing how that works.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:48 amIn July 2018, Amash was the only member of the U.S. House to vote against creating a three-digit national suicide prevention hotline.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:48 amWhen is the last time Amash wrote his own legislation and didn’t hand it over to a body of lobbyists that wrote it for him?
Name a congress critter that wrote their own bills.
Many lobbyists are experts in a field, and that’s why their in-put is important. Many are not arm-twisters, but educators. Could you write a well-crafted farm bill?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:49 am60. rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:36 am
Bill Clinton understood js=ust what those job approval numbers really meant.
The question was domething like: What do you think of the job person X is doing?
Present tense. Except when an election is imminent, when they are more likely to give an overall evaluation, most people apply it to the events of the last six weeks or so.
George Bush the Elder had conducted the Gulf War very well. Almost no casualties, and no cost (in fact the United states government made a net profit)
At the end his refusal to finish the job (and if it ad been done then, there would ave een no insurgency) and to help the rebels against Saddam Hussein was not popular, but his 91% approval rating was probably taken before that hit.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:49 amAmash opposed President Donald Trump’s 2017 executive order to ban citizens of seven majority-Muslim countries from entering the United States. Amash said: “Like President Obama’s executive actions on immigration, President Trump’s executive order overreaches and undermines our constitutional system.”[102]
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:49 amSays the Trump guy?!?
Really?
LOL
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:50 amSammy, bush-I went from, IRC, a 90% approval rating after the Gulf war, to getting a lower percentage of the vote by an incumbent President since 1912. Like you say, large numbers of independents make up their mind 6 weeks out. that’s what matters.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:52 amJill Stein, Trump, and Tulsi Gabbard are all “Russian spies” according to Hillary.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:54 amHe supported the result of Obergefell v. Hodges, but said the issue with same-sex marriage was government involvement.
I’m as adamantly opposed to “gay marriage” as anyone I know, but there is a valid argument that the whole barn door was opened by government coming to butt into what was always a non-government issue.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:55 amIt boggles me that rcocean is posting all these things about Amash like they’re negatives.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:56 amAnd that has a lot of the prominent Never Trumpers worried:
It has been quite a while since I’d seen those three words used in the same sentence.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:04 am67.
Justin Amash is here engaged in some populist demagoguing – that’s not how it really happened. They didn’t get it – the big banks got it. Hey got ow they could help themselves with this
I don’t think it was on purpose.
Mnuchin turned the application process over to the banks, for reasons of speed, (I don’t know, maybe somebody misleadingly lobbied) and the banks preferred to help and help out their bigger customers.
In most cases the bigger customers technically qualified. Treasury has since changed the rules slightly.
If they had seen it coming, and even now, they could also set rules as to what percentage of the money a bank processed went to companies at various employee size levels. If they were thinking they could have done that for the second round.
Mnuchin after it happened (happily?) noted that small businesses did better at smaller banks and that no bank disbursed more than 4% of the funds..
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:05 am67. That is a perfect illustration of why Amash will never be welcome in the modern Libertarian party. It’s not a party of libertarians; it’s a party of libertines.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:06 amThis doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I don’t see the L’s running any real national level campaign.
Biden is a placeholder. The guy is a meat puppet. There’s a better chance that the D’s come up with some sort of replacement that is a better challenge. But even that is a weak analysis since the D’s had a large field and still picked the meat puppet. Biden could be a McCain plan to fail style candidate.
Either way this guy steals from D’s simply because the D choice is so weak.
Claiming Trump voter cultism based on what’s going on with Biden is just example #78916 of D’s accusing their opponents of doing what they’re doing.
frosty (f27e97) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:06 amAmash would be so much better than Trump or Biden. Trump’s so unpopular with normal people that it’s likely Biden will win anyway, and that’s a shame.
Time123 (36651d) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:09 am“The closest I came was probably Ross Perot in 1992, because I believed in his message of deficit reduction — but I also found him goofy and did not understand his fixation on NAFTA.”
“I looked at the most successful third-party candidate in U.S. history whose major positions were adopted wholesale by the winning candidate in the most recent election and couldn’t figure out why he was fixated on ‘trade’ and ‘jobs’ instead of making all the numbers line up even if you had to sell out to Mexico or China to do it.”
“Also, I would now like to support a candidate whose fortune was built on outsourcing to China, who company has at least one scandal involving crappy Chinese-made products being sold as made in America, in the teeth of a worldwide pandemic mainly caused by crappy Chinese product safety and cleanliness standards, in which several countries have already banned Chinese products for being useless at best and dangerously contaminated at worst.”
“The problem is not with MY judgment, I assure you!”
H. Ross Perotstroika (d03950) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:12 amFrosty, Cultism is an insulting way to say it. But would you agree that Trump has a core base of support that is very committed to him. They support him personally more than they hope for specific policy accomplishments or the implementation of any specific political ideology.
I think the Dem version this time would be that Biden is a rejection of Trump more than he’s a champion for specific point of view.
Time123 (36651d) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:16 am78. rcocean (1a839e) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:52 am
His approval rating overall was never really at 90%
I don’t think very many people were impressed with GHWB.
And then in 1992, he didn’t seem to understand the economy.
Bush didn’t understand the way the word “recession” was understood and used by most people who were not professional economists (not just the declining period, but the fall and and the rise till things got back to where they were at the peak)
And he didn’t understand that the meaning of the term “out of the loop” was different than his to most people (it had changed from “out of the line of authority” in 1986, to “out of the circle of knowledge” as used by the Democrats.)
Bush I gave an overall impression of incompetence. And after him stood to come: Dan Quayle.
People wanted to get off that train.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:16 am* @83
Should be:
The big banks got it. They got how they could help themselves with this program. (not the big corporations)
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:20 am@55
On technical legal basis…I don’t disagree with you.
As part of the process Kavanaugh was entitled to notice, an opportunity to be heard, and the chance to defend himself. That part of the nomination process bodes well here.
What’s the affront to this whole ordeal is that basic understanding of due process was thrown out the window where Kavanaugh was condemned based solely off of the words of the accuser without any other supporting facts.
You and I know this was not ever really about finding the truth. It was keeping Kavanagh off the SCOTUS bench at all cost.
whembly (51f28e) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:24 am83. I don’t see that as demagogic, Sammy. It was an observation, and a correct one according to what the facts bear out.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:26 am“As part of the process Kavanaugh was entitled to notice, an opportunity to be heard, and the chance to defend himself. That part of the nomination process bodes well here.”
It’s a shame Garland never got this opportunity.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:31 am…that basic understanding of due process was thrown out the window where Kavanaugh was condemned based solely off of the words of the accuser without any other supporting facts.
I’m confused. The Judge (now Justice) got every opportunity to confront the accusations against him, and he did it well. There is no other due process to which he was entitled.
I agree as to the aim of the Deemocrats. That’s been true since Bork.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:32 amQuite true.
Albeit the Republicans did do the same thing with Garland. To many Republicans, no big deal because nothing is more important than judicial nominations (even collusion with a KGB dictatorship). To many Republicans, Garland was justified because of some other bad thing in the past. To many Democrats, Kavanaugh was justified because of Garland.
Either way, it’s not a good reason to vote for Trump. We’re told it is. It’s ‘justice’. ‘This is how you get TRUMP!’ which is owning the libs. By turning off our brains because we’re opposing evil democrats, Trump winds up getting a pass.
Let’s just vote for a person on their own merits. We can selectively cite every bad thing the ‘other side’ did and they us, and this is exactly how we wind up with two idiotic parties following two idiotic candidates.
Biden is having mental problems, and of course Trump is too! Why settle? The second we stop settling is the second the GOP puts forward someone we don’t have to settle for.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:33 am“That’s been true since Bork.”
Bork was absolutely unqualified.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:35 amBork was absolutely unqualified.
I totally disagree. Bork was supremely qualified (see what I did there?).
You may not have liked some of his actions, but you can’t throw shade on his qualifications.
Witness that the Lyin’ Of The Senate had to completely distort his ideas to smear him.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:44 am@97, didn’t Bork oversee the Saturday night massacre?
Time123 (235fc4) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:48 amA long comment of mine (half off topic) disappeared and it’s not even in moderation.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:48 am98. Bork was next in line to fire Archibald Cox or resign and he fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:50 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:26 am
What’s demagogic about this is blaming the corproations (I guess, because they sometimes sell damaging products, easier to demagogue about) rather than the big banks, for using this program in a way that was not intended.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:53 amAnother china profiteer trying to line his pockets in the disguise as – Im doing it for you constitutionalists.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:58 amPhone 1-800 k-street to donate to his presidential run.
Bork’s endorsement of censorship to combat crime, welfare, and illegitmacy was rather far afield of anti-trust regulation. The problem with Bork is that he adopted positions designed to provoke argument, which has resulted in nominees with limited records and facile answers. I am glad he never made it to the top bench.
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:04 pmBreaking: In Major Decision Rejecting Kris Kobach’s Claims of Massive Voter Fraud, Tenth Circuit Unanimously Holds Kansas’s Documentary Proof of Citizenship Requirement to Register to Vote Violates Constitution and Federal Law
In a major ruling, a 10th Circuit panel (consisting of 2 judges, as a third judge on the panel had passed away), a Tenth Circuit panel has held that a Kansas anti-voting law championed by former Secretary of State Kris Kobach violated both the Constitution’s equal protection clause and was preempted by the federal motor-voter law. The law at issue required those who wished to register to vote in Kansas to provide documentary proof of citizenship—such as a birth certificate or naturalization certificate—in order to register to vote. Until the ACLU secured a preliminary injunction against this law, about 30,000 people had their voter registrations suspended and were not allowed to vote in Kansas elections.
……
Kobach had claimed that the amount of noncitizen voting was the tip of the iceberg, but the trial court, after an extensive trial where Kobach was given every chance to prove his case, as no more than “an icicle, largely created by confusion and administrative error.”
Today’s 10th circuit opinion agreed that preventing voter fraud is a compelling interest, but that Kansas could not prove its law was necessary to prevent such fraud. …..
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:10 pmI guess that isn’t as eye popping of a headline.
BuDuh (38644a) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:17 pmWhat’s the affront to this whole ordeal is that basic understanding of due process was thrown out the window where Kavanaugh was condemned based solely off of the words of the accuser without any other supporting facts.
First off, Due Process applies only to something which you have a right to. A judicial nominee does not have a right to a judicial seat just because they were nominated. Kavanaugh had no due process rights that were violated. Neither did Garland or Bork.
Nor did he have a presumption of innocence. That is only for criminal trials.
And even when those two apply, they apply only to the forum in which the person’s rights are being adjudicated. In this case, the Senate. Which, you may have noticed, voted to confirm Kavanaugh. But no one outside the Senate had any obligation to respect “due process” and “presumption of innocence”.
Kishnevi (a1aef7) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:24 pmRick Wilson
@TheRickWilson
Joe Walsh: Justin Amash’s campaign will help Trump win – The Washington Post
__ _
Drew Holden
@DrewHolden360
Seeing the NeverTrumpers roundly dismiss a conservative, pro-life candidate for president after throwing their unqualified support behind Joe Biden is big Conservatism ConservedTrade mark sign energy
__ _
Sk90
harkin (8f4a6f) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:26 pm@Sk9077809128
·
The Bulwark nevertrump crew seems to think the role of Real Conservatism is to stand meekly to the side of history quietly pleading “stop” while the progressive left has its way with the country.
__ __
I never hinted I thought Bork was always right or faultless. I said he was qualified, and he simply was.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:28 pmI am still a Republican and a Pro-Life one at that but you couldn’t stop me from voting for Biden with a 20′ wall paid for by Mexico. If Trump loses and he actually concedes after he loses without creating even more chaos, it’ll be one of the happiest days of my life.
Unfortunately, if Trump continues to poll behind Biden in the coming months, he will likely pull that “election is rigged” routine again and it might continue well past the election. We all know that’s possible even if half of us won’t admit it.
noel (4d3313) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:30 pm“ Kavanaugh. But no one outside the Senate had any obligation to respect “due process” and “presumption of innocence”.
There are still people who do not see that Kavanaugh’s confirmation was the Senate’s way to bestow it’s own form of due process and presumption of innocence, especially since the ‘victim’ came off as a partisan loon.
While on the other hand the Dems, the MSM and the clown car of additional victims came off as the prosecution and witnesses at the Salem Witch Trials.
harkin (8f4a6f) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:33 pm_
BuDuh, at 105: Kansas can ask for an en banc rehearing.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:39 pmIndeed. The 2016 election, calling to LIBERATE MICHIGAN, lying about hurricane paths, saying he was just being sarcastic. This is not a guy who puts the nation ahead of his own ego. “He fights” and if he loses an election, he will punish us any way he can.
It’s important to note that Trump is not running for reelection so much as he is running to maintain his power to thwart an investigation about Trump’s criminal behavior. There is zero chance he just concedes a loss.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:46 pmTrump’s so unpopular with normal people
If ranting and arguing all day/every day on the internet is considered “normal”, God help the USA.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:51 pmI was in a conversation about the Presidential line of succession and the name Pelosi was mentioned. I said to my friend that I thought almost anybody would be better than Trump and his dictatorial tendencies. He said: “I would rather have a dictator Trump than a President Pelosi”. He wasn’t kidding. And he is not alone.
noel (4d3313) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:51 pmTrump campaign lashes out over ‘Don’t defend Trump’ memo
Earlier this month, the Senate Republican campaign arm circulated a memo with shocking advice to GOP candidates on responding to coronavirus: “Don’t defend Trump, other than the China Travel Ban — attack China.”
The Trump campaign was furious.
On Monday — just days after POLITICO first reported the existence of the memo — Trump political adviser Justin Clark told NRSC executive director Kevin McLaughlin that any Republican candidate who followed the memo’s advice shouldn’t expect the active support of the reelection campaign and risked losing the support of Republican voters.
McLaughlin responded by saying he agreed with the Trump campaign’s position and, according to two people familiar with the conversation, clarified that the committee wasn’t advising candidates to not defend Trump over his response.
The episode illustrates how the Trump political apparatus demands — and receives — fealty from fellow Republicans and moves aggressively to tamp down on any perceived dissent within the GOP. The president maintains an iron grip on his party, even as his poll numbers sag and he confronts fierce criticism from Democrats over his response to the coronavirus pandemic.
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:53 pm……..
CH, take it up with 538. Link was in my comment. Most people see that Trump is a sack of damp garbage.
Time123 (235fc4) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:54 pmThe F.D.A. plans to announce the emergency use of a virus treatment after a trial showed shortened recovery time
The F.D.A. plans to announce as early as Wednesday an emergency use authorization for remdesivir, an experimental antiviral drug that is being tested in treating patients with Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, according to a senior administration official.
Before the announcement President Trump and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the federal government’s leading infectious diseases scientist, on Wednesday hailed early trial results of the drug, holding out hope that it could help stem the rising death toll.
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:56 pm……
It’s a shame Garland never got this opportunity.
The comparison of Garland to Kavanaugh is specious.
Garland was not personnally attacked or smeared. He was simply denied a SCOTUS seat for ideological reasons. The Rs were not going to let a moderate-liberal replace a conservative (let alone a conservative icon like Scalia) and throw the balance of the court. Nothing about what happened called into question his personal integrity, and he had the option of (and did) remain a Circuit judge on the DC Circuit, a highly respected position. No one thinks less of him, he was simply the victim of ideological disagreement that centers around SCOTUS.
Kavanaugh, OTOH, was attacked as a rapist based on flimsy 35-year-old allegations by someone who seemed to have an ideological axe to grind. He was dragged through the mud, in front of his family and the whole nation, by the same people who now give a free pass to Joe Biden.
Sorry, not the same thing at all.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:57 pm“Albeit the Republicans did do the same thing with Garland.”
I, too, remember the false witnesses and accusations parroted 24-7 on the mainstream media. Totally the same strategy, same thing. You’re a reliable ol’ source there.
“To many Republicans, no big deal because nothing is more important than judicial nominations (even collusion with a KGB dictatorship).”
HOW did Republicans get so FIXATED on judges JUST because the Democrats started using them to rewrite laws and rights wholesale? They’re SUPPOSED to just do the same thing they did before!
“To many Republicans, Garland was justified because of some other bad thing in the past. To many Democrats, Kavanaugh was justified because of Garland.”
The mind of a shill loses all detail and recollection when considering facts that might not benefit him.
“Let’s just vote for a person on their own merits. We can selectively cite every bad thing the ‘other side’ did and they us, and this is exactly how we wind up with two idiotic parties following two idiotic candidates.”
PARTY PLATFORMS AND AGENDAS MEAN NOTHING, EXISTING ALLIANCES AND SYMPATHIES MEAN NOTHING, THERE IS ONLY THE PERFECT CANDIDATE(TM) EXISTING IN A PERFECTLY FRICTIONLESS WORLD OF SIX SIGMA DECISION-MAKING WHOSE WORD IS TRUE AND EVERLASTING!
“Biden is having mental problems, and of course Trump is too!”
Biden can barely finish a sentence, which is exactly the same as Trump misspelling words or phrasing words strangely when talking about specialized subjects! I’m a smart man you should trust with comparisons!
“Why settle? The second we stop settling is the second the GOP puts forward someone we don’t have to settle for.”
“WHY SETTLE?” said the aging never-married 35-year old woman destined to die with her cats, alone and irrelevant.
Dusty is An Obvious Leftist (67a48e) — 4/29/2020 @ 12:58 pmJared’s ‘Mission Accomplished’ moment
Reminds me of Sheldon on Big Bang Theory.
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:05 pmJoe Walsh: Justin Amash’s campaign will help Trump win – The Washington Post
Paul Montagu (b3f51b) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:10 pmI am a conservative Republican who voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate in 2016.
I think Amash will take votes from conservatives, mostly Republicans. Libertarian arguments do not appeal to liberals or leftists. My extended family is largely liberal. The younger Sanders supporters say they will either not vote or vote for the Green Party candidate or some other 3rd party candidate like Jill Stein in 2016.
Stu707 (52fdfe) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:11 pm“Garland was not personnally attacked or smeared. He was simply denied a SCOTUS seat for ideological reasons.”
The word “simply” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:12 pmlol, I am honored that the trolls always seem to like me the least.
Uh huh. Trump actually sounds dumber than Biden. He’s babbling about injecting people with household cleaners. That’s about twelve billion times worse than stumbling over words. He is also babbling about “noble prizes” but how do you top the bleach thing? That’s worse than the ‘grab them by the —‘ comments. What’s fascinating is the rapid loss of mental function Trump has shown ever since this crisis began.
Of course. Incel stuff. Living your best life with the VPN? Maybe get another IP so you can pretend to have a girlfriend on here. You really owned the libs with that.
Good point. Who is it I’m shilling for, exactly? Unlike you guys, furious that your politician was criticized, I’m just calling them all like I see them.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:17 pmHad to happen… https://disrn.com/news/arizona-woman-who-gave-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:19 pmThe word “simply” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
It is still true. If you don’t understand the difference between (a) “you are respectable jurist, but your ideology does not allow us to vote for you to a position where ideology has come to matter” and (b) “you are a rapist,” then you are either stupid or talking in bad faith.
Had the Ds said, “Kavanaugh is a fine person, but he is too conservative, he will probably overturn Roe v. Wade, and do other damage (from their POV),” I would not complain. Of course, they would have lost with little fanfare; the Rs had the votes and they didn’t. So they turned to personal smears and a media circus.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:20 pm““you are respectable jurist, but your ideology does not allow us to vote for you to a position where ideology has come to matter” ”
There was never a vote.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:21 pmIn any event, my original point is that, no matter how badly Kavanaugh was treated, it doesn’t hold a candle to a bogus war that resulted in 100s of thousands of deaths and support for torture.
I voted for Bush in 2000 because I was disgusted by Clinton, but I will never vote for a Republican again.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:25 pmIt is remarkable how often you can use Trump’s advice on medical cures to kill people instead, isn’t it?
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:26 pmThere was never a vote.
So what? He was not entitled to one, nor to a SCOTUS seat. There are many fine lawyers and jurists who get neither.
You still seem oblivious to the fact that one guy was personally attacked in the most ugly way, and one wasn’t. The fact that the “wasn’t” guy was denied something through some parliamentary tricks, rather than a negative vote, is small potatoes compared to what happened to Kavanaugh.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:29 pm“You still seem oblivious to the fact that one guy was personally attacked in the most ugly way, and one wasn’t. The fact that the “wasn’t” guy was denied something through some parliamentary tricks, rather than a negative vote, is small potatoes compared to what happened to Kavanaugh.”
I’m sorry his feelings were hurt.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:31 pmI agree. I don’t think the democratic party really expected to win with bombshell evidence, so much as the party realized it cannot control this stuff. Some democrats are going to go for the jugular cynically every time. So we got a circus. That most of these folks are nowhere near as upset about roughly equivalent issues with Biden makes the party look ridiculous.
Most folks will just remember Matt Damon’s (pretty funny) parody of Kavanaugh. It’s like Tina Fey’s parody of Palin. The facts are barely even important.
But to the left, this was also about Garland. No mercy granted, no respect offered. And I guess both sides will keep this trend alive.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:31 pmBored Lawyer, the party doesn’t care about Garland personally. They care about the power of losing a seat on the Court.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:34 pmI’m sorry his feelings were hurt.
It’s not just a matter of feelings, it is a gross coarsening of political discourse. Both Garland and Kavanaugh are fine people who devoted their lives to the law.
Ideology has long been an issue if you want a SCOTUS seat, at least since Bork, and probably long before that. (FDR’s court packing scheme comes to mind.) So rejecting someone for a SCOTUS seat because he is too liberal or too conservative long ago became par for the course. The nominee may not like it, but he can still look his wife and daughters in the eye. “Daddy, they say you’re too liberal” is not the same thing as “Daddy, they say you raped a girl in high school.”
Smearing someone for being a rapist based on made up charges from when he was in high school took such opposition to a completely new, far lower level. “Daddy, they say you’re too liberal” is not the same thing as “Daddy, they say you raped a girl in high school.”
The Rs will no doubt try to respond in kind the next time a D is in the White House and there is a SCOTUS nomination.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:38 pm“It’s not just a matter of feelings, it is a gross coarsening of political discourse.”
Reminder that Trump is President.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:43 pm“The Rs will no doubt try to respond in kind the next time a D is in the White House and there is a SCOTUS nomination.”
Poor analysis.
You can only respond with a full-court reputational attack like the one on Kavanaugh if you already have the media and most of the lawyer’s guilds on your side. Even if the response is going to be as amoral as you claim, the Republicans certainly don’t have the resources or shamelessness to do it in the same way.
Dusty is an Obvious Leftist (809569) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:43 pmYou’re drinking poison and hoping the other guy gets sick, man. 🥱
Trump sent me $1200!
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:46 pmThis is a great overall analysis of the issue.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:47 pm. The fact that the “wasn’t” guy was denied something through some parliamentary tricks, rather than a negative vote, is small potatoes compared to what happened to Kavanaugh.”
That one senator could veto a nomination, and block any vote on the nominee, for purely political reasons, is not small potatoes.
Kishnevi (a1aef7) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:49 pm“But to the left, this was also about Garland. No mercy granted, no respect offered.”
“Bored Lawyer, the party doesn’t care about Garland personally. They care about the power of losing a seat on the Court.”
The Shameless Shill LITERALLY contradicting himself and his own argument in his very next post. Why would anyone engage with him, except to make fun of him and goad him into even more hilarious reversals?
Dusty is an Obvious Leftist (b514fd) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:50 pmI will vote third party ;but not libertarian party. All they want is to smoke dope.
asset (623957) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:51 pm127. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:20 pm
There’s another thing. Senators don’t like to admit the are voting against Supreme Court nominees because of their judicial philosophy, (maybe because that would mean that, in certain circumstances, a seat could not be filled) although Senator Schumer is something of an exception. He has to misrepresent things a bit though.
They always have to find a different grounds. With Merrick Garland the Republicans found that a president should not name someone to the Supreme Court too close to a presidential election.
Turns out that Biden and Schumer said the same thing in 2008.
Upon being confronted with that, they distinguished the two cases by saying they were talking about a Supreme Court vacancy created by a retirement or a resignation, not a death.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:53 pm“That one senator could veto a nomination, and block any vote on the nominee, for purely political reasons, is not small potatoes.”
How could one senator gain so much power simply via being the leader of the majority party, it’s an absolute DISGRACE that parliamentarians exercise parliamentary procedure!
“Trump sent me $1200!”
The rain falls on the just and the unjust, but only the unjust curse God for it. And I’m pretty sure the Chinese have people like you locked up tight for furlough dollars.
Dusty is an Obvious Leftist (3a659d) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:55 pm136. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:38 pm
Those issues died, but it has been continuous since the Warren cout. Since the nominatons to replace Earl Warren. Since the nominations of Fortas, and Haynesworth and Carswell. We got eventually Harry Blackmun who was corrupted by his persona views on abortion.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:57 pmSammy, did they really though? Talk is cheap.
Bored’s point is that both parties are heading down the same cynical path. You seem to support this point with your example.
Unless you really think the GOP wouldn’t replace RGB promptly if she passed away in October.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:59 pmIf ranting and arguing all day/every day on the internet is considered “normal”, God help the USA.
And yet, here you are.
Heh…!!!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:07 pmHe’ll be like all the libertarians — posturing and advancing unreasonable one-fell-swoop positions, while electing Democrats.
What would get me excited would be someone with the potential to be elected. A centrist Democrat or Republican (e.g. Bill Gates, Mitt Romney) who would run as an independent, or a new third party. The latter is easier as many states (e.g. CA) have far easier ballot qualifications for third parties than they do independents.
I’ve been down the LP path before and it has left me disappointed and angry. They don’t even WANT to win.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:11 pmUnless you really think the GOP wouldn’t replace RGB promptly if she passed away in October.
They’d do it in an instant unless Trump fracked it up.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:12 pmWhat would get me excited would be someone with the potential to be elected.
Or as Patterico recalls, Perot. Quirky as all hell, a little paranoid, yet he got 19% of the vote against (by comparison to Biden and Trump) two excellent candidates.
The nation hungers for a better choice.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:15 pm152. “The nation” needs to get over this notion that it matters who “we” elect. It doesn’t. The fix is in. And nowhere is there more evidence of that than in how the federal government has handled the CoViD-19 crisis.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:18 pmKevin, I agree that this would be a lot better with Romney, who most Republicans already voted for at least once. It would be pure hell for him but politically he doesn’t have anything to lose.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:19 pm“I agree that this would be a lot better with Romney, who most Republicans already voted for at least once.”
Given the totality of John McCain’s and Mitt Romney’s conduct since, I’ve come to the conclusion that the American people actually do have pretty good judgment in the aggregate and that Obama was, in retrospect, the lesser of the two evils at the time in both cases.
“It would be pure hell for him but politically he doesn’t have anything to lose.”
‘nothing to lose’, ‘no personal investment’, ‘no skin in the game’, yes, Romney never wept for the businesses he shuttered, nor would he weep for America so long as he could afford a vacation home to support his family elsewhere, but that level of social disconnection from Presidential decisions achievable only from being part of a fringe Utah cult brings with it problems obvious to everybody but a libertarian.
Dusty is an Obvious Leftist (b05aca) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:29 pmIs it credulousness or the blinding hatred of TDS that caused so many to rally around this fraud?
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/?fbclid=IwAR1kLkbF9pZYAGwI4CxP0a-IYquVWTuypBve_IcHkBR-D-xkOOKzCJ1zm7c
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:39 pmI wrote about Mr Amash’s campaign announcement, and I can’t say I was impressed. The Libertarian Party convention is scheduled for less than four weeks from now, and his campaign website, which he’s had a long time to get prepared has only a “Donate” button on it; no issues or biography pages, nothing which would lead people who might be interested but not know for what he stands to be able to find out anything about him. It’s sloppy and unprofessional.
Mr Amash has had a following in the libertarian groups on Twitter, and maybe he figures that’s all he needs to pick up the nomination; when one of the other candidates styles himself “Vermin Supreme,” I can see why he’d figure that he had no competition. Still, announcement day is the day in which he’ll get the most attention, and he pretty much flubbed it.
I voted for Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson in 2016, knowing that Pennsylvania had not been carried by a Republican candidate since 1988, and that Hillary Clinton had a strong lead in the Keystone State, so a vote for Donald Trump wouldn’t count for anything. Oops! looks like I got that one wrong.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:46 pmTime123 (36651d) — 4/29/2020 @ 11:16 am
Agreed but this is a baked into this post.
No, I wouldn’t really agree with the cause and effect here. I think he has a base of support because of what he does. Some of what he does doesn’t fall into what you’d call policy accomplishments but it probably does fall into a very general definition of political ideology. I think if someone came along and credibility took the same approach Trump does they’d see similar support. The problem is that it’s unlikely that this will happen and it’s almost impossible for it to happen while Trump’s in play.
Agreed. He’s “not Trump” in name only. He’s corrupt, his family is corrupt, he’s been grabby with the ladies for years, etc. The anti-Trump/maybe-Biden crowd is pushing a guy who can’t finish a sentence. And we aren’t even talking yet about the obvious dishonestly of a person saying they’re voting for Biden. Biden is not capable of being POTUS and this isn’t a political statement. No one is “voting” for Biden. They are voting for whatever the D’s put in behind the scenes. That’s why his handlers keep playing games with his VP pick. The ridiculous behavior isn’t a Biden cult of personality. It’s more of a scientology style follow the herd type of setup.
frosty (f27e97) — 4/29/2020 @ 2:49 pmYou really think this? He just can’t even sit at a desk and make decisions, with a team of folk running departments? (RBG style) Biden is basically just braindead?
Be careful about these low expectations. Biden is a jackass but he can beat those expectations. They are probably giving him exotic medical care to help him out. And even if you’re right, all they have to do is select a VP intelligently and they actually might win back some of the Bernie support.
There is Biden’s real weakness. He is basically a lot like Trump. To a lot of democrats, particular them bernie bros, it will be tough to risk getting sick to support a crooked creeper.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:00 pmnk wrote:
Running as a Libertarian, he’s running for the nomination of a party which is distinctly non-interventionist, which would make me suspect that he’d be distantly cool toward almost everybody. The Libertarian Party is for free trade and pretty much open borders, though where Mr Amash comes down on those issues I do not know.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:01 pmThe better-looking Dana quoted Mr Amash:
Is that anything other than a word salad? Does it tell you one thing about what he would actually do if he actually won?
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:07 pmRomney never wept for the businesses he shuttered, nor would he weep for America so long as he could afford a vacation home to support his family elsewhere, but that level of social disconnection from Presidential decisions achievable only from being part of a fringe Utah cult brings with it problems obvious to everybody but a libertarian.
Welp, that statement qualifiers you as a bigot who knows nothing about business OR a world-wide religion from which your cult hero draws many of his administration’s personnel.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:13 pmDammitol… https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/police-say-death-arizona-man-not-being-investigated-homicide-n1195591
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:13 pmfilipe wrote:
Did our pro-life Presidents, Ronald Reagan, the elder and younger George Bush, and Donald Trump, get anything accomplished in restricting abortion?
Mr Amash, in 2017, voted in favor of federal legislation to ban most abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. And he’s pro-life in a way most commenters here are not: he is opposed to capital punishment.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:13 pmI may be doing Sammy an injustice, but that’s really the reason I mentioned it: In answer to Dana’s question why Sammy is down on Amash.
On reflection, though, I see how those two things alone automatically lose him 70% of the electorate. At least. Republican, Democrat, and non-aligned.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:14 pmasset wrote:
At least the Libertarians would want you to pay for your own dope.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:25 pmJustin has decided to run
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:30 pmI guess that he thinks that it’s fun
But don’t bet the rent
that he’ll top three percent
and the states that he’ll carry are none
If all those fair-weather Trump supporters truly loved President Trump, truly trusted him, truly had faith in him, and drank their fish tank cleaner, Clorox, and Lysol like he told them to, we would not need to be discussing any of this.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:31 pmPeople, get ready
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:40 pmThere’s a lawyer a-comin’
You don’t need no complaint
You just sign right here
All you need is faith
To hear the drums a-drummin’
Don’t need a reason
You just sign right here
Our Windy City barrister wrote:
The Libertarians thought that 2016 would be their year, that with two so unlikable major party candidates they’d have a real chance to get some major traction. They’d get over 5%, maybe a lot over, we heard, and there were all sorts of polls telling us what a major impact Gary Johnson would have.
From Wikipedia:
He got 3.3%. Even with the best year possible for a third party candidate, all of the third party candidates together received 5.1% of the vote. Some charismatic independent candidates have done better than that, but third parties just don’t.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:40 pmIn 2016, Gary Johnson was libertarian in the same way as Leon Trotsky was libertarian. A constitutional amendment to make every state allow abortion?
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:46 pmBored Lawyer, this may be as close to a concession from Davethulhu as you are going to get, but you got it. So there’s that.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:08 pmThe Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 3:13 pm
Quite right, Dana in KY, quite right.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:10 pmamash/ceceille richards/2020
mg (8cbc69) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:12 pm148. Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 1:59 pm
October would be pretty hard to do (and they would have until late December, anyway, but they would.
This was just an excuse, but my point is, they look for excuses (non-ideological) reasons) not to confirm a Supreme Court nominee.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:20 pmThere are many fine comments made today on this thread, with some commenters on fire. I trust they know who they are. I name no one because, for some reason, we can’t have nice things.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:33 pmOff topic, but
WHO lauds lockdown-ignoring Sweden as a ‘model’ for countries going forward
https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-lauds-sweden-as-model-for-resisting-coronavirus-lockdown/
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/29/2020 @ 4:53 pmOT… among the FBI notes on Gen. Flynn…
What’s urgent? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?
If we’re seen as playing games, the WH will be furious. Protect our institution by not playing games.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/29/explosive-new-flynn-documents-show-fbi-goal-was-to-get-him-fired/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:09 pmFairness would dictate 6AM takedowns and frog-marching of wrongdoers, TV cameras rolling. After all, that’s the way things are done.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:12 pmConcerning Patrick’s question:
From what I know of Amash, which is limited, he aligns more closely than Biden (or Trump…) with the positions and demeanor I would hope for in a president.
If he is on the ballot in November, I would consider voting for him.
I tend to agree that he would tend to split the vote against Trump, and could therefore increase Trump’s chances of election.
If he were to gain enough traction to reach Ross Perot levels of relevance, he might be able to mount effective attacks on Trump from the right, but it’s unclear that any Trump supporter would care.
So while, in abstract, I am happy to see another conservative/libertarian stand up for the principles Trump has made a mockery of, in practice I am ambivalent.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:13 pmThe Colonel noted:
I’m guessing that our esteemed host will have something to say about this, but one thing has been made brutally clear: if the FBI is even allowed to consider trying to get someone to lie, so that they can then have him prosecuted, then under no circumstances should you ever speak to the FBI, about anything.
Are state and local prosecutors allowed to do this?
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:13 pm“Don’t talk to the police” is universally good advice, regardless if the police are local, state, or national.
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:27 pmI read the Federalist link.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:43 pmI think whether this helps Biden or Trump depends on how much and how effectively Amash campaigns. If he doesn’t do much, it probably won’t matter. If he campaigns aggressively in targeted states, it may make a difference. And which states he targets matters, too.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:47 pmMoeLarryCurly should pardon the weasel so we can move on to the next episode of The Three Stooges Become President.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:47 pmHere’s Popehat’s take on it:
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1255657300917800961
Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:49 pmConfess to breaking the Logan Act.
Get real…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:52 pmTrump presented with grim internal polling showing him losing to Biden
President Trump’s advisers presented him with the results of internal polling last week that showed him falling behind former vice president Joe Biden in key swing states in the presidential race, part of an effort by aides to curtail Trump’s freewheeling daily briefings on the coronavirus pandemic, according to three people with knowledge of the conversations.
The president spoke with campaign manager Brad Parscale, White House senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner and RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, among other officials, in calls and meetings last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, according to the three people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal internal discussions.
One call on Wednesday — with Parscale patched in from his home in Florida and McDaniel from hers in Michigan — was designed to present grim polling data to the president to encourage him to reduce the frequency of coronavirus briefings or to stop taking questions, after seeing his numbers slip for several weeks, officials said.
Trump resisted the pleas, saying people “love” the briefings and think he is “fighting for them,” a person with knowledge of the Wednesday conversation said. Trump has long been distrustful of polling data presented to him when the numbers are negative, aides say.
RipMurdock (d2a2a8) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:05 pm……..
They be waiting for Flynn to die before they dismiss the case. Like the Ted Stevens debacle in 09.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:30 pm@181 It’s clear the writer of that note believed him to be guilty of a crime. It also seems like they had proof of a crime. Not sure how this makes Flynn look better…
Time123 (9f42ee) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:34 pmMaybe he was guilty? I wonder if that’s why he repeatedly admitted guilt?
Time123 (9f42ee) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:37 pm“Like the Ted Stevens debacle in 09.”
Did Ted Stevens confess twice?
Davethulhu (744195) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:38 pmCould’ve been them driving him into bankruptcy and the feebs threatening his son.
The Logan Act… sheesh…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:39 pmThe FBI foughthard against the release of this info, Barr had to intervene. We’ll see what – if anything – happens over the next few weeks, as more info is said to be forthcoming.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:41 pmOT
Kishnevi (37d538) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:42 pmTrump can’t be blamed for this one
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52471208
If they will accuse a widow of murdering her husband merely to whitewash stupid things Trump said, they will accuse the FBI of misconduct in order to keep a Trump bumboy from going to the pokey.
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 6:53 pm186 – Davethulhu (b18dca) — 4/29/2020 @ 5:49 pm
I never knew trying to get someone fired was a part of the FBI’s mission. And that seeking justice doesn’t seem to be the duty of the prosecutors involved in this appalling episode of Feds Gone Wild, considering the clear Brady and Giglio violations. Not surprised though, sadly. Popehat’s take is disingenuous.
Here’s a simple question for those that countenance this behavior – what did Flynn lie about?
Mo Hawk (6c01b3) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:00 pmthose of us who believe removing Trump is the critical goal in the election
Removing Trump no matter what seems a worthy goal only if one lacks the merest scintilla of cynicism or imagination or understanding of history, politics and human nature to realize that there are many possibilities far worse than Trump. Suggesting that nobody could possibly be worse than Trump – or at least not anybody that Americans would ever elect – seems to me to be a rather unserious position to take. I too believe that Trump is quite possibly the worst human being ever to hold the office, at least within my lifetime, but I’m under no delusion that he’s likely to hold that distinction for very long. There’s always worse.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:09 pm“Popehat’s take is disingenuous.”
Popehat has worked on both sides of federal prosecution, and knows what he’s talking about. This sort of thing happens all the time, and has been happening for years. If you’re just learning about it now, you haven’t been paying attention. If you’re only outraged about it now,
Davethulhu (744195) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:14 pmYeah, a righteous takedown, lol…
The use of the Logan Act is a tell. The Logan Act was passed in 1799. I wonder how many times it has been used as the foundation for criminal prosecution?
Twice? It appears the last time was 1852. Both attempts failed.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:42 pmThe outrage is performative, contrived, pure Fox
Unlike the real, genuine outrage that drove Flynn’s prosecution in the first place.
And, Congress please pass a law so we don’t go out of our way to do this sort of think again, says Popehat. LOL
beer ‘n pretzels (51a03a) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:46 pmif mr. general flynn is so innocent then mr. president trump the president, who is the president because he finally gave up on his dream to be Playboy Magazine’s Miss April, should have already pardoned him
and that is all that needs to be said
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:51 pmThe assignment was for you to write five coherent sentences, using appropriate punctuation, Timmy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:01 pmperiods are for girls and most of the capitals are on lockdown because of mr. president trump’s coronavirus, mr. crocker
nk (1d9030) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:17 pm“And, Congress please pass a law so we don’t go out of our way to do this sort of think again, says Popehat. LOL”
You can lead a horse to water.
Davethulhu (744195) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:36 pmMaybe you should read Flynn’s guilty plea, it exists, its public, you can educate yourself.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/29/2020 @ 8:56 pm“If they will accuse a widow of murdering her husband merely to whitewash stupid things Trump said, they will accuse the FBI of misconduct in order to keep a Trump bumboy from going to the pokey.”
Nice to see both nk and Prosecutor P are all about defending increasingly obvious murderesses and the media who give them their paper-thin cover story. It’s all about principles and demeanor with you people, right?
The relationship dynamic seems to mirror the relationship the Republicans and RINOs had with the Democrats!
“should have already pardoned him”
And these Principled Process Protectors don’t seem to see any value in letting the process play out before issuing a pardon either. My word, it’s like you only say things that help your case no matter if they’re true or reasonable or not! Have you always been this way, or has repeatedly losing to Trump just marginalized you enough to be open about how depraved you always were?
Fishy Wife (ac0963) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:43 pmOh nomad, you never disappoint in your defense of the indefensible.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:52 pmFish Wife, the end of your linked article has a correction that completely repudiates your point.
But this is something most people know. Homicide detectives write reports about dead people. Most dead people weren’t murdered. Therefore the existence of a homicide detective doesn’t actually indicate a homicide, let alone a murder.
Though you are angry at some argument you lost with commenters here that we don’t even remember, you proved nk right by accusing this woman of murder based on literally no evidence, simply because doing that horrible thing protects Trump from one of his stupid comments.
Shame on you.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 9:54 pmSo 20 years ago, Wanda was exonerated of a crime that sounds ugly.
Maybe if you were egregiously judged by the world for the worst interpretation of your worst moment, just for sychophancy of some effing politician you would understand why this is not good. I don’t suppose you heard about Trump’s Formula 409 and Diet Coke mystery medicine? Definitely check it out.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:03 pmMo Hawk (6c01b3) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:00 pm
Counter-intelligence.
What he said in his conversation with the Russian ambassador. He said they did not discuss the lifting of sanctions. Ad some oter details/d
However, he did not violate the Logan Act, because he made no promises. He probably made no promises because he knew he couldn’t speak for Donald Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:05 pm“the existence of a homicide detective doesn’t actually indicate a homicide”
The existence of an extremely fishy story, a sociopathic wife who’s been dragged into court over domestic violence herself, and high-level leftist apologetics for bad behavior by women, however, always makes that a viable assumption.
“you proved nk right by accusing this woman of murder based on literally no evidence, simply because doing that horrible thing protects Trump from one of his stupid comments.”
NK is proudly wrong and doubling down on his error. No one decided to inject fish tank cleaner because Trump recommended a common antiviral treatment that has had some success in clinical trials (better than remdesevidirwhatever so far at any rate.)
Plenty of well-connected people with authoritarian personalities can get away with murder by being close to the victim. But I guess that sort of inference only applies for you when it’s Trump on the defendant’s bench, and not someone you can point to as an excuse to hit him.
Her history is checkered, her alibi is pitiful, the party she donates to is the Party of Christine Blasey-Ford and Her Lies, and her defenders have a very poor track record of successful predictions. I have zero problems accusing her in the court of public opinion, where anti-Kavanaugh lefties have continually reminded us that there is no due process and neither should anyone else.
Fishy Wife (c30625) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:06 pmI really hope you’re talking about the travesty that were “blue slips.”
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:08 pmAt the minimum, they obviously did not trust Donald Trump’s judgment, or they wouldn’t have proceeded in such a indirect way, which included leaks that were illegal, to get Mike Flynn fired as National Security Adviser.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:10 pmIn his Senate testimony in June, 2017, former FBI Director James Comey probably told some lies.
Most notably that, contrary to his testimony, he in fact did exactly the limited thing that he admits the president asked him to:
He let Mike Flynn go.
Things turned on a dime:
At 6:25 am February 15, Zero Hedge has this: (that’s Feb 15 in spite of the URL
saying Feb 14)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-14/mike-flynn-may-face-felony-charges-lying-fbi
But by 10 pm Zero Hedge reports:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-15/fbi-reportedly-will-not-pursue-charges-
against-cooperative-and-truthful-mike-flynn
https://mobile.twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/832013379124486148?p=v
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:20 pmDrinking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/29/2020 @ 10:21 pmJimmy Baker has finally flipped. Juanny Mac and his hooker pee scam is going to burn a lot of republicans. Good riddance you pathetic bunch of hacks.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/30/2020 @ 1:21 amamash and flake would be a pair for the nanny group
mg (8cbc69) — 4/30/2020 @ 1:36 amNo time like the present for the jew hating, chinese loving drop out to run for president.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/30/2020 @ 2:16 amHow’s that granddaughter, mg?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/30/2020 @ 4:13 amFishy Wife, if you carefully retrace your movements, you may be able to find that mind you lost. It’s worth a try…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/30/2020 @ 4:15 amFishy Wife is Steppe Nomad.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/30/2020 @ 6:47 amSpeaking of flipping, your move Mith Linthay.
urbanleftbehind (335277) — 4/30/2020 @ 7:41 amMike Flynn did not tell the truth in his FBI interview, but they gave him a second chance, as they maybe usually do, and confronted him with the evidence so then he said his memory wasn’t so good. Afte President Trump, late on February 14, 2017, talked privately to FBI Director James Comey about leaks
(probably meaning a story that had appeared in the New York Times – this one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communication
s-trump.html )
That claimed
which Comeyy claimed was leaked by people who ddn;t know the facts – he later went out of his way o deny it, telling members of the Senate too)
and also, in tat February 14, conversation, Trump had incidentaly mentioned Mike Flynn, which Comey played up and made the main point of that conversaton.
After that conversaton the FBI leaked to CNN that Mike Flynn was telling the truth. In his Senate esimony on June, Comey claimed that he didn;t inform any people in charge of the Mike Flynn case and they made their decision independetly – which maybe they did and were keeping secret.
Before that however, Donald Trump had fired Mike Flynn, because he lied to Mike Pence before his appearnces on Sunday interview shows on January 15.
Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/30/2020 @ 7:57 amBefore that however, Donald Trump had fired Mike Flynn, because he lied to Mike Pence before his appearnces on Sunday interview shows on January 15.
Thank you, Sammy. Everybody forgets that. Flynn is just something to rile up the mouth-breathers with. Nothing more. And MoeLarryCurly is glad to have the FBI smeared in the process because, as the agency which investigates corrupt criminal traitors and foreign spies, the FBI is his, and his corrupt criminal traitor network’s, biggest threat.
is that an ok five sentences, mr. crocker?
nk (1d9030) — 4/30/2020 @ 8:12 amJerryskids wrote:
I’ve said it many times before: Donald Trump might be an [insert slang term for the rectum here], and, who knows, perhaps even a criminal, but it is his policies, not his personality, which affect the vast majority of Americans, and in that regard, his policies have mostly been the right ones. The Democratic nominee could be as pure as the wind-driven snow, but if he is going to nominate far-left judges, push policies which tell us that girls can be boys and boys can be girls, destroy due process against male college students, push reparations for slavery, Affirmative Action, open borders and supporting illegal immigrants, Medicare for All, expanding welfare, supporting the Palestinians, the green new deal, mandating plug in electric vehicles, and all of the other stupidity of the Democratic agenda, he would be a far worse President than Mr Trump.
The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/30/2020 @ 8:28 amWell, the Libertarian Party postponed its convention, which was set to be held at some hotel in Austin, for a month. They’re searching for other venues now.
The LP has a peculiar nominating process. There are 1,000 delegates who vote at the convention. Whoever wins the majority gets the nomination. And anyone can announce their candidacy up to a month before the convention. It’s a disorganized party, but it is the only third party that is on the ballot in all fifty states.
On this thread, I notice that Dana, alone, has referenced Reason’s interview with Amash. Perhaps she’s the only one who actually does any research or reading. Here is the article, for the disinterested and uninformed.
https://reason.com/2020/04/29/justin-amash-becomes-the-first-libertarian-member-of-congress/
I agree with Patterico, I’ll be voting for him, if he wins the nomination. Or I’ll ask for a write-in ballot and cast my vote for him. The man is a principled Constitutionalist.
The problem is that the Libertarians are a strange group. Even though I have aligned myself with them for almost 45 years, I have never actually joined the party. I have voted Libertarian on several occasions, but I have not donated to any of their candidates or participated in their campaigns. I will if Amash is their nominee this year. But the other nominees say, they don’t want to nominate another Republican-lite. So it’s a difficult row to hoe for him, from Republican to Independent to Libertarian.
The one thing I would really like to see is a debate between Democrat Biden, Republican Trump, and Libertarian Amash. I think he would slaughter them both on the stage, just eviscerate them. That’s why the two parties, and the media, will not allow him on the stage. His message resonates with the American people, does that not matter?
No, I do not think he has any chance of winning the election, except other than a slight chance. But I will vote for him, absolutely.
I’m done with the duopoly, have been for most of my life.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 4/30/2020 @ 5:43 pmThere is Biden’s real weakness. He is basically a lot like Trump.
At one time, he was a lot smarter than Trump is now. For example, he’d remember what he said the day before. Sure he says a lot of stupid things, and often BSes. These days? Hard to say. He might NOT remember what he said yesterday. Then again, Trump behaves like he has Alzheimer’s a lot.
I have serious problems engaging in a discussion of Trump vs Biden. It’s like deciding whether I want dinner from the PortaPotty or the sewer. The United States of America deserves better from the two major parties, and this is the second time we’ve been stiffed in this way.
Both parties should lose. Neither candidate would win against a credible self-financed centrist who isn’t a cold fish like Bloomberg. Trump would get his hard-core 20% and Biden would get the Democrat base (not the Bernie base, which is something quite different). And the centrist would get a majority.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/30/2020 @ 6:53 pmThat’s not what the FBI conveyed, Sammy. More accurately, they communicated that Flynn sounded sincere while telling provable lies to their faces. Ms. Wheeler:
Paul Montagu (f1f683) — 4/30/2020 @ 7:16 pmDamn Gina
Drinking poison and hoping the other guy gets sick.
Kevin, Biden’s decline is obvious and disturbing. Trump’s is hard to gauge because he is under a lot of pressure and he’s always been an idiot on his best day. Trump could plan nuclear waste injections to get Space Force cats superpowers to fly to Mars. Biden is more likely to start drooling and staring into space.
Not only are neither worth a second of my time, but 2020 will be such a nasty contest.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/30/2020 @ 7:37 pmthose of us who believe removing Trump is the critical goal in the election
Frying pan, meet fire.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/1/2020 @ 12:30 amBiden is more likely to start drooling and staring into space.
Or splitting up Iraq. Or maybe Kansas.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/1/2020 @ 12:32 amOne of the best arguments for Biden is that his election would re-orient GOP senators and representatives from defending corruption and abuses of power to opposing them.
Dave (1bb933) — 5/1/2020 @ 12:46 amHere’s a good podcast interview with Justin Amash by Nick Gillespie, including an almost complete transcript.
https://reason.com/podcast/justin-amash-wants-to-be-the-first-libertarian-president/
Reactions to Amash becoming a Libertarian and announcing his candidacy are mixed within the party itself. Most welcome him, some denounce him vulgarly, and a few say he’s just wants to glob onto fifty-state ballot access for his own ambition, not to grow the party.
There might be some validity to the latter argument. I mean, if he were to run as an Independent, gaining ballot access in all fifty states would be complicated, time-restricted and expensive. But I disagree that he doesn’t want to grow the Libertarian Party, because his real motivation is to offer an alternative to the two-party system, and running as a Libertarian is the best way to do that.
The only real question is, will he get the nomination? He should, because he has been the most libertarian member of Congress for nine terms, and he’s not a goofy as Rand Paul. Plus, if he is nominated, the national and international media coverage will be substantial. That’s one way to grow the party.
But the Libertarian Party has a peculiar and unique nominating process. There are no primaries, and those that are held are non-binding. All that matters is getting 50+1% of the delegates at the convention, which has been postponed. Libertarian Party leaders will meet tomorrow, probably by Skype or some other Internet forum, to discuss how to hold the convention. The hotel in Austin where they would have held the convention was shut down because of the coronavirus, so they were forced to make other plans.
How the convention will be held, whether at a site or virtually, is largely irrelevant to the challenge Amash faces. His singular goal now is to convince a majority of the delegates to vote for him. That’s difficult in these trying times. Restricted travel, no large gatherings due to social distancing, no rallies, the only way to conduct a campaign is online or on network.
There is some question as to how the election will be held, regardless of the nominees. Mail-in ballots are all the rage in this pandemic. Voter turnout will likely be low, because of social distancing and various restrictions. Many people will want to cast their ballots by mail.
These are extraordinary times, and any return to anything approaching normalcy, whatever that means, is years away. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Will Amash be the Libertarian nominee? I don’t know. But I would donate to and vote for him if he where. I most certainly will not be donating to or voting for Trump or Biden.
So, yeah, I think Amash has a good chance in this election. There are a lot of disaffected American who feel alienated by both major parties. It’s like neither party cares about them, and they’re suffering right now.
We need new leadership, new governance, an end to the failed policies of the past. Amash, at least, promises that.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 5/1/2020 @ 9:54 amAmidst the hell of a global pandemic- America needed a joke– and a good laugh:
Justin Amash.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/1/2020 @ 5:58 pmPresumably Tom includes former Obama voters who pulled the lever for Trump in 2016
JP (d49e11) — 5/2/2020 @ 8:32 amOne of the best arguments for Biden is that his election would re-orient GOP senators and representatives from defending corruption and abuses of power to opposing them.
CCP appreciates this, comrade.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/2/2020 @ 9:26 amhttps://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1255479756126130179
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/3/2020 @ 11:15 am