Patterico's Pontifications

4/27/2020

Tara Reade’s Former Neighbor Says That Reade Told Her About The Alleged Sexual Assault by Joe Biden

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:57 am



[guest post by Dana]

This comes after the publication of a report saying that Tara Reade’s mother had made an anonymous call to Larry King’s show in 1993, and without offering specifics, referenced her daughter’s experience while she worked as a staffer in Joe Biden’s Senate office. Reade confirmed that it was her mother’s voice on the call.

From today’s report:

In March, when a former aide to Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden accused the candidate of sexually assaulting her in 1993, two people came forward to say that the woman, Tara Reade, had told them of the incident shortly after it allegedly occurred — her brother, Collin Moulton, and a friend who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution.

Now two more sources have come forward to corroborate certain details about Reade’s claims. One of them — a former neighbor of Reade’s — has told Insider for the first time, on the record, that Reade disclosed details about the alleged assault to her in the mid-1990s.

“This happened, and I know it did because I remember talking about it,” Lynda LaCasse, who lived next door to Reade in the mid-1990s, told Insider.

The other source, Lorraine Sanchez, who worked with Reade in the office of a California state senator in the mid-1990s, told Insider that she recalls Reade complaining at the time that her former boss in Washington DC had sexually harassed her, and that she had been fired after raising concerns.

LaCasse, who is a Democrat and still plans to vote for Biden, says that she believed Reade’s account when she first heard it, and that “we need to stand up and tell the truth”:

LaCasse told Insider that in 1995 or 1996, Reade told her she had been assaulted by Biden. “I remember her saying, here was this person that she was working for and she idolized him,” LaCasse said. “And he kind of put her up against a wall. And he put his hand up her skirt and he put his fingers inside her. She felt like she was assaulted, and she really didn’t feel there was anything she could do.”

LaCasse said that she remembers Reade getting emotional as she told the story. “She was crying,” she said. “She was upset. And the more she talked about it, the more she started crying. I remember saying that she needed to file a police report.” LaCasse said she does not recall whether Reade supplied any other details, like the location of the alleged assault or anything Biden may have said.

“I don’t remember all the details,” LaCasse said. “I remember the skirt. I remember the fingers. I remember she was devastated.”

From Sanchez:

After she left Washington, DC, Reade worked for California State Senator Jack O’Connell. Lorraine Sanchez, a former legislative staffer in O’Connell’s office, mentored Reade and worked alongside her from 1994 through 1996. Sanchez told Insider that Reade complained at the time about being mistreated by her former employer.

“[Reade said] she had been sexually harassed by her former boss while she was in DC,” Sanchez said, “and as a result of her voicing her concerns to her supervisors, she was let go, fired.”

Sanchez said she does not recall if Reade offered details about the sort of harassment she allegedly suffered, or if she named Biden. “What I do remember,” Sanchez said, “is reassuring her that nothing like that would ever happen to her here in our office, that she was in a safe place, free from any sexual harassment.” Reade said she never experienced harassment from any other employer she had during her time in Washington, and that the employer Sanchez recalls her complaining about was Biden.

Joe Biden has not been directly asked about Tara Reade’s claims, as he should be. However, when Business Insider made the request to do just that, the campaign ignored the request. They did, however, ask to speak on the phone to the publication, but only off the record. The request was turned down. Kate Bedingfield, Biden’s communications director, maintains that the accusations are false.

As a reminder, this is what Reade claims Joe Biden did to her:

Reade has said that in the spring or summer of 1993, she was told to meet Biden in a semi-private corridor to deliver a duffel bag. There, she said, Biden pushed her up against a wall, reached under her skirt, and penetrated her with his fingers. When she resisted his advances, Reade said, Biden expressed annoyance and said, “Aw man, I heard you liked me.” Then, she said, he pointed a finger at her and said, “You’re nothing to me.” After that, she said, he shook her by the shoulders and said, “You’re OK, you’re fine,” before walking away.

Unsurprisingly, Nancy Pelosi endorsed Joe Biden for president on the same day as the report about Reade’s neighbor confirming that she had been told in detail about Biden sexually assaulting Reade was published:

For these and other reasons, I am proud to endorse Joe Biden for President, a leader who is the personification of hope and courage, values authenticity and integrity.

With that, it’s surprising to see a progressive Democratic political strategist and adviser to Hillary Clinton push for Biden’s withdrawal from the presidential race. This even before today’s report came out:

DIFFICULT THREAD — #BIDEN SHOULD WITHDRAW

1. I respect the will of the voters.

2. But new information has emerged supporting #TaraReade’s account of being sexually assaulted by #JoeBiden.

3. Credible rape accusations are disqualifying or we have NO moral standards.

4. Defeating Trump is NOT OPTIONAL.

5. To avoid potential catastrophe in Nov., #Biden should withdraw.

6. #Warren, #Harris, #Klobuchar, #Buttigieg, #Castro, etc. could replace Biden.

7. #Bernie can restart his campaign.

8. We can reboot the primary and give voters a choice.

9. This is the ethical position AND the smarter strategy to beat Trump.

10. We lose ALL moral authority if we embrace “the lesser of two accused rapists.”

11. Polls show other Dem candidates can win.

PRINCIPLES MATTER. WE CAN BEAT TRUMP AND PROTECT OUR VALUES.

I made the same arguments about #Franken and #Kavanaugh.

If #MeToo means anything, it CANNOT BE APPLIED ON A PARTISAN BASIS.

And for the record, I also think the same standard should apply to Bill Clinton’s accusers.

A couple of things: #MeToo loses all credibility it if ignores Tara Reade and her allegations. Because Trump is sitting in the White House, in spite of any number of accusations of sexual harassment and/or assault against him, does not give anyone else a free pass. Further, both sides of the aisle have already ceded any moral high ground, and the stain of guilt is on the voters’ hands. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have any moral standing. That disappeared with Bill Clinton, and with Donald Trump. Nonetheless, Biden should be asked directly about the accusations in full public view. Because, aside from the possible legal consequences, voters deserve to know exactly who and what they are voting for. Even though, as seen with LaCasse, it may not matter just how ugly, vile, and possibly illegal their nominee’s actions have been. The reality is, that in these polarized days, tribe trumps morals and ethics every damn time. And how sad is that.

–Dana

174 Responses to “Tara Reade’s Former Neighbor Says That Reade Told Her About The Alleged Sexual Assault by Joe Biden”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. Not so much “tribe” as “interests.” NOW supported Teddy Kennedy, despite his drunkedness and womanizing, long before Clinton came on the scene. Because he was a powerful voice for their interests. Had it been just “tribe” they could have found another D from Boston.

    The Democrats have alternatives to Biden, and will until the convention. The GOP does not have (or is unwilling to produce) and alternative to Trump. Sadly that.

    I would MUCH rather see a Haley-Cuomo contest than an Assh0le-Dead Man contest.

    Maybe if I wish real hard.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. she recalls Reade complaining at the time that her former boss in Washington DC had sexually harassed her, and that she had been fired after raising concerns.

    Whether she was fired can be checked.

    Whether she raised concerns can be checked.

    Whether she voiced “concerns to her supervisors” can be checked out. They deny knowing anything.

    And Lorraine Sanchez can’t say what boss Tara Reide was talking about? (Then why does this report do that and say she was taalking about Biden?) Or if she gave any details about what was supposed to have happened?

    I’d rate the probabiliy of this being true low. People do join in with others to back up somebody else’s lie:

    Exodus 23:1

    לֹא תִשָּׂא, שֵׁמַע שָׁוְא; אַל-תָּשֶׁת יָדְךָ עִם-רָשָׁע, לִהְיֹת עֵד חָמָס. 1 Thou shalt not utter a false report; put not thy hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  4. The better-looking Dana wrote:

    #MeToo loses all credibility it if ignores Tara Reade and her allegations.

    Well, former Kerry (2004) and Clinton (200) campaign staffer Peter Daou is saying that Joe must go. But, to be fair, he’s been a Bernie Bro this time around.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  5. Mr M wrote:

    The Democrats have alternatives to Biden, and will until the convention. The GOP does not have (or is unwilling to produce) and alternative to Trump. Sadly that.

    The Democrats’ support for Mr Biden is lukewarm; Joe Biden was the (supposedly) safe candidate. The problem is that now, if they do dump Mr Biden, unless they nominate Bernie Sanders, the Bernie Bros are going to go nuts.

    When it comes to the GOP, it’s different: the majority of the party enthusiastically support President Trump.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  6. Well, if Biden’s mental decline is what his opponents claim it to be, he could probably claim to have no memory of Reade. And do so honestly and sincerely.

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  7. 4,

    I posted Peter Daou’s comments in the post.

    Dana (0feb77)

  8. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Whether she was fired can be checked.

    Whether she raised concerns can be checked.

    Whether she voiced “concerns to her supervisors” can be checked out. They deny knowing anything.

    This is true if and only if the records from 1993 ever existed and still exist. There is every reason for Mr Biden’s office to have ‘misplaced’ records like that, and after 27 years, there is a high probability that those records won’t be found.

    Remember: in 1993, those records would be on paper, not stored in a searchable computer data base.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  9. Wonder if this will finally prompt a ‘journalist’ to ask Biden about it.

    The contortions being done by the DNC-MSM to avoid this are a net loss. The voters who watched them come at Kavanaugh with pitchforks just shake their heads now and add it to the dumpster fire of double standards and smears of the past couple decades, you know, that stuff that helped elect the current occupant of the Oval Office.

    Just a couple weeks ago they tried to set the CW that the reason the Kavanaugh smear-without-evidence was shouted from the rooftops while the Biden breaking news was ignored was because he was ‘in line to take a very important and powerful seat in government’. lololol

    The Babylon Bee said it best:

    Biden: ‘Republicans May Have Standards, But We Have Double Standards’

    https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-republicans-may-have-standards-but-we-have-double-standards
    _

    harkin (08efd8)

  10. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

    Ms. Reade, who worked as a staff assistant helping manage the office interns, said she also filed a complaint with the Senate in 1993 about Mr. Biden; she said she did not have a copy of it, and such paperwork has not been located. The Biden campaign said it did not have a complaint. The Times reviewed an official copy of her employment history from the Senate that she provided showing she was hired in December 1992 and paid by Mr. Biden’s office until August 1993.

    Should there be a record of such a complaint, or a financial settlement?

    Instead, Ms. Reade said, she complained to Marianne Baker, Mr. Biden’s executive assistant, as well as to two top aides, Dennis Toner and Ted Kaufman, about harassment by Mr. Biden — not mentioning the alleged assault.

    The staff declined to take action, Ms. Reade said, after which she filed a written complaint with a Senate personnel office. She said office staff took away most of her duties, including supervising the interns; assigned her a windowless office; and made the work environment uncomfortable for her.
    She said Mr. Kaufman later told her she was not a good fit in the office, giving her a month to look for a job. Ms. Reade never secured another position in Washington.

    In an interview, Mr. Kaufman, a longtime friend of Mr. Biden’s who was his chief of staff at the time, said: “I did not know her. She did not come to me. If she had, I would have remembered her.”

    Mr. Toner, who worked for Mr. Biden for over three decades, said the allegation was out of character for Mr. Biden. Other senators and office staffs had reputations for harassing women at work and partying after hours, according to those who worked in the office at the time. Mr. Biden was known for racing to catch the train to get home to Wilmington, Del., every night.

    “It’s just so preposterous that Senator Biden would be faced with these allegations,” said Mr. Toner, who was deputy chief of staff when Ms. Reade worked in the office. “I don’t remember her. I don’t remember this conversation. And I would remember this conversation.”

    The Biden campaign issued a statement from Ms. Baker, Mr. Biden’s executive assistant from 1982 to 2000.

    “I never once witnessed, or heard of, or received, any reports of inappropriate conduct, period — not from Ms. Reade, not from anyone,” she said. “I have absolutely no knowledge or memory of Ms. Reade’s accounting of events, which would have left a searing impression on me as a woman professional, and as a manager.”

    If this was true, and she complained, and these people who worked for Biden are lying, wouldn’t she have been paid some money and signed a non disclosure agreement? Where’s her non-disclosure agreement?

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  11. The contortions being done by the DNC-MSM to avoid this are a net loss.

    It’s weird to see people talking about how the MSM is covering up this story when it’s on the front page of CNN, covered by the NYT and Business Insider (I think they’re a Slate spin off?) are all covering the story.

    They’re not covering the story the way you want.
    They’re not covering the story the way you imagine they would if if Biden were a republican. But they’re covering the story.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  12. A couple of things: #MeToo loses all credibility it if ignores Tara Reade and her allegations.

    You just posted a prominent Dem calling for Biden to resign over this and in your piece acknowledged that Pelosi didn’t didn’t have a chance to know about the BI reporting before she endorsed.

    Can you clarify what you’re looking for? It feels like this is an amorphous standard that will be hard to nail down since it isn’t like #MeToo has a press office to issue statements of position.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  13. Final Comment: I think Biden did something totally unacceptable to Tara Reid and would love it if he withdrew. If the DNC is competent they will have figured out how deal with this other than crowning Bernie.

    If Biden does chose to run, and I hope it doesn’t based on the latest report, he’s still a lot less Rapey than Trump.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  14. The Democrats said that it was unacceptable to have a sexual harasser in the Oval Office. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that our current President lacks the mental capacity to serve in office. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that we can do better than a blowhard who makes up facts on the spot and passes along misleading advice to mask his comical ignorance. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that the President and First Family have wrongly benefited financially from executive office influence. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that the current Chief Executive is peevish and churlish and tends to handle criticism by belittling those who criticize him. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that the White House is led by a man who has no clue as to what he is doing in foreign policy, is widely susceptible to people who flatter him, and changes direction with whatever way the winds blow. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    These truly are stupid times.

    (Yes, I know that technically Joe Biden has not yet been nominated, but Democrat voters have clearly and decisively expressed their preference for his candidacy.)

    JVW (54fd0b)

  15. I think David French had it right when he said that if the weight of the available evidence indicates that it is more likely than not that the allegations are true, then the accused should not hold high office. By that measure, neither candidate should be president.
    But the Democrats nevertheless went ahead with Bill Clinton and the Republicans nevertheless went ahead with Trump.
    It is interesting, the parties playing up the story (Trump diehards, Bernie Bros) and the parties being quiet about it (mainstream media and the rest of the Democrats).

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  16. It’s weird to see people talking about how the MSM is covering up this story when it’s on the front page of CNN, covered by the NYT and Business Insider (I think they’re a Slate spin off?) are all covering the story.

    Those outlets are indeed covering the story — several weeks after the allegations first emerged — but they are not nearly devoting the resources and space to them as they did to allegations against Brett Kavanaugh. And it has to be considered absolutely unbelievable that the New York Times removed language about Joe Biden’s history of inappropriate behavior towards women because his campaign complained about it. That sort of courtesy would never be accorded to any Republican office-holder, let alone Donald Trump.

    So if the MSM isn’t exactly “covering up” this story, it is certainly accurate to say they are slow-walking it and extending the most generous interpretations of events to Mr. Biden.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  17. The Democrats said that the President and First Family have wrongly benefited financially from executive office influence. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that the current Chief Executive is peevish and churlish and tends to handle criticism by belittling those who criticize him. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    The Democrats said that the White House is led by a man who has no clue as to what he is doing in foreign policy, is widely susceptible to people who flatter him, and changes direction with whatever way the winds blow. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    These don’t seem to be well founded criticisms of Biden. The others were spot on.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  18. The Babylon Bee said it best:

    Biden: ‘Republicans May Have Standards, But We Have Double Standards’

    I don’t get it. The democrats are actively talking about denying the candidacy to the front runner over character. The GOP failed to do this with frankly more extreme circumstances (Trump bragging about the same sort of groping sexual assault, a few dozen accusations, and even sworn in graphic detail long before Trump ran for office, from his wife).

    It’s hard to come up with an analysis of this that doesn’t make the GOP look awful.

    I do very much hope Biden is replaced. Not because I buy this account necessarily, but because he can’t do the job. Pick a governor who can work through a crisis. Get us back on our feet. The democrats do have a few, but anyone with an executive record can’t win in the democratic party.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  19. Those outlets are indeed covering the story — several weeks after the allegations first emerged — but they are not nearly devoting the resources and space to them as they did to allegations against Brett Kavanaugh. And it has to be considered absolutely unbelievable that the New York Times removed language about Joe Biden’s history of inappropriate behavior towards women because his campaign complained about it. That sort of courtesy would never be accorded to any Republican office-holder, let alone Donald Trump.

    So if the MSM isn’t exactly “covering up” this story, it is certainly accurate to say they are slow-walking it and extending the most generous interpretations of events to Mr. Biden.

    The BI piece broke important new ground. That’s not a slow walk, that’s good journalism. Which they have time to do here, but did not during the Kavanaugh hearings. Also wasn’t a Pandemic at the time.

    Again, they’re not covering it the way you want, or the way you imagine the would…but they’re covering it.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  20. In searching for reports aboutthis latest development in the Reade allegations, the New York Times last reported about Tara Reade on Apr. 14, while the Washington Post last reported about Tara Reade on Apr. 16. There is nothing about the CNN phone call in either outlet.

    Further, searching Joe Biden in both outlets has nothing new for the past few weeks either. It’s off the radar. We’ll see if this compels them to have to report about it, and whether there will be a push by either outlet to request a direct interview with Biden. If big media pushes his campaign for access to inquire about Reade’s allegations, they risk losing support if they keep stonewalling. They know Bernie is waiting in the wings…

    Dana (0feb77)

  21. This is down the page and on the right hand side, but it’s on the CNN home page now
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/27/politics/biden-tara-reade-senate/index.html

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  22. Do Republicans or Democrats care about hypocrisy anymore? I don’t see the point for either Party to care.

    DRJ (15874d)

  23. It’s hard to come up with an analysis of this that doesn’t make the GOP look awful.

    The GOP will come out of this smelling to high heaven. Fittingly so. But that doesn’t mean that the Democrats get a pass on this. It should be investigated, and the facts laid bare, and then let voters decide where their moral line in the sand is.

    Dana (0feb77)

  24. 22,

    No, they don’t, not when it counts, an certainly not if it costs them politically. That why I said this in the post:

    Further, both sides of the aisle have already ceded any moral high ground, and the stain of guilt is on the voters’ hands. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have any moral standing

    Dana (0feb77)

  25. The BI piece broke important new ground. That’s not a slow walk, that’s good journalism. Which they have time to do here, but did not during the Kavanaugh hearings. Also wasn’t a Pandemic at the time.

    BI certainly did commit “good journalism”. And that begs the question: With unparalleled resources and staffing, why didn’t either of the two powerhouses, New York Times and The Washington Post, break the story? A complete lack of will, solid but tacit support of Biden, politics as usual…

    Dana (0feb77)

  26. These don’t seem to be well founded criticisms of Biden.

    OK, let’s look at each one of my assertions which you seem to believe are perhaps unfair:

    The Democrats said that the President and First Family have wrongly benefited financially from executive office influence. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    Do you think that Hunter Biden got those board positions because of his financial acumen and experience in the energy industry? And have you heard of Joe’s brother James and his problems?

    The Democrats said that the current Chief Executive is peevish and churlish and tends to handle criticism by belittling those who criticize him. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    Whatever, “Fat.” You “lying” “dog-faced pony solider,” you are “full of shit.”

    The Democrats said that the White House is led by a man who has no clue as to what he is doing in foreign policy, is widely susceptible to people who flatter him, and changes direction with whatever way the winds blow. So they nominated Joe Biden.

    Don’t take my word for it. Read what former Secretary of Defense (for two different administrations) Robert Gates wrote about Slow Joe in his memoir.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  27. It may not be a case of BI looking where the others did not.
    It may be a case of sources choosing to contact BI (presumably because they thought BI would be more sympathetic).

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  28. Trump is waiting till groper joe gets the nomination before blasting him with commercials of tara reade telling how she was sexually assaulted by groper joe to get democrats who hate trump to vote third party. Green party 2020 slogan “you don’t have to vote for a rapist vote green paty!”

    asset (7cc12f)

  29. BI certainly did commit “good journalism”. And that begs the question: With unparalleled resources and staffing, why didn’t either of the two powerhouses, New York Times and The Washington Post, break the story?

    Yes, thanks Dana. My whole point is that it has been the smaller, less-known media who has broken this story while the NYT, WaPo, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, et al. are content to sit around and count coronavirus cases and talk to guests who want to lay blame at the feet of the Administration.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  30. The GOP will come out of this smelling to high heaven. Fittingly so. But that doesn’t mean that the Democrats get a pass on this. It should be investigated, and the facts laid bare, and then let voters decide where their moral line in the sand is.

    Dana (0feb77) — 4/27/2020 @ 1:47 pm

    I agree. Right and wrong are still right and wrong once you drop the partisan thing. Especially when you drop the partisan thing.

    I didn’t think that Larry King interview was very specific. In a couple of ways it seemed to contradict Tara’s claim in fact. And there’s a lot about her that is odd to me. But I also recognize the limitations of information. Biden’s supporters will dig up and enhance attention on things that will make her seem like an attention seeking nut. This is a good example. Examples of Tara Reade praising Putin (?!?) and even Biden on the issue of sexual assault make her seem like she’s up to some dirty trick, but sometimes tweets are ironic. I’ve retweeted Trump in ways that I think make him look terrible, but you could twist that to show that I support Trump.

    Anyway, long story short, we saw the same thing with Monica being a deranged stalker. Ford being a loser who kept her mouth shut too long. If this identical set of facts were accusing Trump, you and I would be saying the same thing, but a whole lot of folks would flip flop.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  31. Since when did America get so prudish? “Morality” is a transient; hell, Reagan was divorced, knocked up Nancy w/Patti long before he married the Ice Queen — and he was elected governor and POTUS– twice. We know the foibles of Trump and of JoeyBee– frankly plagiarism, hair plugs and tall tales w/Mandela reveal more about the sinister character of the ex-Veep than skirt chasing.

    Who is more entertaining:

    [X] JR Ewing -the bad boy everybody loves- and/or loves to hate? Or[ ] George Wilson –(who, you say? Look ‘Mr. Wilson’ up.)

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. I think it is fairly likely that Joe Biden behaved inappropriately with Ms. Reade. It’s pretty well understood that he has this sense of himself as being an avuncular father/uncle/big type person to young women, as evidenced by his well-known penchant for putting his hands on them, moving his face close to theirs, etc. It wouldn’t have surprised me if 50-year-old Joe Biden in 1993 might also have thought of himself as sexually attractive to young women and enjoyed flirting or even going past the point of impropriety with them.

    But I also can’t help but realize that the first allegations against Senator Bob Packwood for inappropriate touching, groping, and kissing female staff members had come out in November of 1992, so this idea of a powerful Washington man helping himself to nubile young staffers was already in the news (and just look at who had been elected President). So if a young staffer had emotional issues and was in need of attention from family and friends, what better way of gaining it then sharing a story about how Joe Biden had done something creepy to her? Again, that doesn’t necessarily mean that there wasn’t some degree of inappropriate behavior on Biden’s part, but it could be that the Ms. Reade has embellished the story considerably over the years and it now contains very salacious details that are entirely in her imagination. And that’s why it doesn’t seem any of the people who are corroborating her story are claiming that the lurid details were made known to them.

    But I would never completely discount the possibility that she is telling the 100% truth.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  33. The one caveat I’ll offer, is that while Biden’s family has cashed in on his name. I haven’t seen any evidence that he’s encouraged it or helped it.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  34. hell, Reagan was divorced, knocked up Nancy w/Patti long before he married the Ice Queen

    Like JVW I don’t reject the possibility that Biden did precisely what Reade claims he did.

    But this idea that it’s a reflection of people divorcing wives or getting pregnant before marriage is pretty goofy. Consensual sexual activity maybe be slightly scandalous, but it’s not a horrible violation of someone else. I can’t even compare the two. I know you don’t like Ronald Reagan but the comparison is forced.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  35. The comparison to Reagan is not forced. It’s non existent. Divorce and adultery are not rape.

    Unless Reagan sexually assaulted someone somewhere sometime. Don’t remember anyone ever claiming that.

    And if hairplugs are disqualifying, so are orange toupees.

    Kishnevi (2a9a02)

  36. So if a young staffer had emotional issues and was in need of attention from family and friends, what better way of gaining it then sharing a story about how Joe Biden had done something creepy to her? Again, that doesn’t necessarily mean that there wasn’t some degree of inappropriate behavior on Biden’s part, but it could be that the Ms. Reade has embellished the story considerably over the years and it now contains very salacious details that are entirely in her imagination.

    Or how about: A 50+ year old man in a positions of power is plagued by the fact that he’s firmly planted in mid-life and and is so insecure about losing his youthful charm and is in crisis about it, and chooses to wield his substantial power over an innocent staffer who is young, vulnerable, and has not sent him any signals, nor is in need of emotional affirmation from her boss. Perhaps someone did tell him that she was interested in him, but maybe that wasn’t true. Maybe he asked about her and he read into whatever was told him because he needed “permission” to assault her. And maybe Reade is completely accurate in her description of the assault.

    A woman does not have to be an emotional, basketcased bimbo to be the victim of a dirty of old man’s clumsy assault.

    Dana (0feb77)

  37. I’m just going to copy my analysis over from the previous thread.

    I have followed the Tara Reade story.

    Points in her favor: She seems to be a life long democrat, so this probably isn’t a partisan hack job. She quit abruptly and reported at the time and over the years of having been uncomfortable. Something seems to have happened. Her mother’s phone call seems to support that something happened.

    Points not in her favor: Up until 2017, she seems to have been a Biden supporter. Currently she seems to have been a Bernie supporter and having some kind of admiration for and/or connection with Putin and Russia. The Bernie fanatics appear to be willing to do or say anything to get their way. Russia has undermined the democratic candidate in the past in order to get Trump into office. Her story has not been consistent over the years. Her mother’s phone call to Larry King does NOT support the story that Biden shoved his fingers in her vag. No one remembers her reporting this, even though she says she did. There are Biden papers from that era available, though currently sealed. Law enforcement would be able to get into them and there don’t seem to be any reports of paperwork evidence. She also says she reported it to the Senate and there doesn’t seem to be any paperwork related to that. No one she says she reported it to professionally seems to remember. There people who have had her position have said that she is not being accurate in describing what the position would have entailed.

    Misc. data points: There have been no reports of Biden casually screwing around over the years. None of the other reports on Biden have been similar to Reade’s accusation. Would someone say “Come on, man.” to a girl they were trying to talk into bed? While it is a casual verbal tick of Biden’s, it doesn’t seem like it would be one in that sort of situation.

    Other points I’ve considered: I cannot imagine having “too much respect” to report a person who sexually assaulted me by sticking his fingers in my vag. Reade reports having voted for Biden several times since then. Neither Romney nor McCain were extremists. If you had a choice between voting for a person who sexually assaulted you or voting for an otherwise reasonable person that you had some disagreements with on policy, would you vote for your assaulter? Would a mother describe sexual assault as “a problem with a senator”.

    My personal conclusion: Something happened, but not what she is currently describing. I do not think Biden stuck his fingers into Reade’s vag. No objective evidence appears to exist as she reports it. Her story does not make sense and it does not fit with other things we do know. I do think she was very offended by being asked to waitress at a fund raiser because her legs were good. (no one would carry this relatively minor event as a full detail for the better part of 2 decades if they didn’t have a strong reaction to it.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  38. hell, Reagan was divorced, knocked up Nancy w/Patti long before he married the Ice Queen

    Ronald and Nancy Reagan were married March 4, 1952. Patti Reagan Davis was born October 21. That’s not exactly “long before,” and considering that he was 41 and she was already 30, and they had been dating for over two years. It’s not like they were two kids impulsively forced into a shotgun wedding.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  39. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/tara-reade-joe-biden-democrats

    …Even in the era of #MeToo, Reade’s story is problematic. For one thing, she’s changed it multiple times.

    Last year, she came forward to echo the charges of Las Vegas activist Lucy Flores (who said Biden once grabbed her shoulders and kissed the back of her head), telling the Associated Press that he “rubbed her shoulders and neck” and “played with her hair” several times when she worked for him in 1993.

    That’s not good, but it’s not rape.

    Reade now says she made claims of sexual harassment, but not assault, to her supervisors in Biden’s office; they vehemently deny hearing any such complaint. She says she was told to find a new job by a supervisor, but she has also changed her recollection of which supervisor it was when speaking to reporters in recent weeks (all of the people she named deny it). The AP contacted 21 former Biden staffers, none of whom remember any Reade complaint against their boss. Reade also claims she complained to the Senate personnel office; there is no record of it. [Q. Should there be?]

    Just last Thursday, Reade filed a complaint with the Washington, DC, police department, but told the Post she did so, in its reporters’ words, “because she is being harassed online and wanted law enforcement to be aware of her claim.” The public record of the claim doesn’t name Biden but says Reade “disclosed that she was the victim of a sexual assault” in 1993. {Why this caution?]

    She does have a friend who confirms that Reade told her about the assault at the time; the friend insists on remaining anonymous, but has spoken to multiple outlets. In corroborating sexual assault charges, that can be an important piece of evidence.

    Reade’s brother, in the past, has said she told him, too. But he briefly changed his story for The Washington Post, saying only that she’d told him about harassment by Biden, then texting a Post reporter to say he did remember his sister saying Biden touched her “under her clothes.” (Her brother refused to talk to the Times, AP, or Salon).

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  40. She did report it:

    The police investigation is currently open, though the statute of limitations for prosecuting the alleged assault has expired.

    NPR obtained confirmation of the police report from a law enforcement source. A record of the report names Biden. NPR has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the full report.

    Reade supported both Elizabeth Warren and Marianne Williamson before they dropped out of the race.

    Reade also addressed the issue of politics with NPR:

    “This isn’t a partisan issue. This is about power and the abuse of power, and the people around that person that enabled that behavior,” she told NPR.

    Reade described herself as a third-generation Democrat and said she supports the work Biden did to advocate for the the Violence Against Women Act. She’s a domestic abuse survivor and said that legislation personally helped her.

    “Many things can be true at once. Someone can do something really awesome, then they can also commit a crime,” Reade said, describing her conflicting feelings about Biden.

    Reade said she voted for the Obama-Biden ticket twice but does not intend to cast a vote for president this November.

    “I personally do not want Trump to become president again. I will not vote for a Republican,” she said. “However, I am not going to vote for the person who assaulted me this time … So where it leaves me is politically homeless, essentially.”

    Dana (0feb77)

  41. A woman does not have to be an emotional, basketcased bimbo to be the victim of a dirty of old man’s clumsy assault.

    Yep, I think there is a strong likelihood that Biden behaved inappropriately in some way towards her. But the major point of contention I have is that now, 30 years later, we suddenly hear that Biden digitally penetrated her by force. That is pretty far moved from the uncomfortable hugs, nuzzles, and even kisses that have characterized oafish Joe’s well-documented behavior that in order to believe Ms. Reade I would like to hear someone close to her say that they had been told of this detail by Ms. Reade some years ago. I don’t mean to discount the idea that it had been traumatic enough for her that it is only now that she can provide this sort of detail, but if I want to be consistent in how I view Ms. Reade’s allegations versus those of Anita Hill, Juanita Broaddrick, Jill Harth, Christine Blasey Ford, etc., I would have to ask for contemporary corroboration of the accusation.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  42. @38. That’s not exactly “long before,”

    Except it is — particularly in that “era.” Making excuses for his behavior doesn’t change the facts.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. @35. Except it is. ‘Morality’ is a transient. You could ask TommyJ ’bout SallyH, but they’re dead.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/27/2020 @ 1:59 pm

    Examples of Tara Reade praising Putin (?!?) and even Biden on the issue of sexual assault make her seem like she’s up to some dirty trick, but sometimes tweets are ironic.

    She probably really really was, pro-Putin and not out pf honest conviction but probably for money or a promise of a position or something..

    This can’t be real:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190404043945/https:/medium.com/@shewrites94/why-a-liberal-democrat-supports-vladimir-putin-f54ca2a3a405

    Why a Liberal Democrat Supports Vladimir Putin

    Alexandra Tara Reade, J.D.
    Nov 27, 2018

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  45. I would be surprised if Biden didn’t act inappropriately with women all the time. You never really know how distorted the media presents things, but we’ve seen Biden creep on women a lot. He has no impulse control and seems to not understand the perspective of women around him. Doesn’t mean he’s crossing the line into assault with his assistants, but I bet he gives a lot of awkward back rubs, makes a lot of obnoxious comments.

    Making excuses for his behavior doesn’t change the facts.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/27/2020 @ 3:17 pm

    He didn’t make an excuse because this isn’t important behavior to excuse. He married the mother of his child and stayed married for decades? Oh heavens. You’re in a thread about sexual assault allegations. Why are we talking about this?

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  46. Carter lusted in his heart, DCSCA, don’t forget that!

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  47. Except it is — particularly in that “era.”

    Oh Lord, DCSCA, you have fallen into that Baby Boomer nonsense of believing that previous generations were absolutely Victorian about these matters. Can’t you imagine in the years after World War II with troops returning home how many children were born five, six, seven months after mom and dad had wed (not to mention the increase in out-of-wedlock births)? I’m sure that some people looked at their calendars and raised an eyebrow when Patti was born, but I would bet that the vast majority of Americans were pretty tolerant of that sort of thing.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  48. She did report it:

    Just now. And In a way, so that she couldn’t be prosecuted because it’s too vague. She can’t tell the police who it was?

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  49. Hey, Trump’s presser is happening. He’s now promising the testing capacity that was promised 6 weeks ago, for 5 weeks ago, for 5 weeks from now.

    Awesome, it’s all going to be fine, perfect, 10 out of 10.

    He also said the states should follow the guidelines on opening up, like with testing, but not too fast, but soon, with the testing promised last month, next month. Open up today, tomorrow, next week, yesterday, very soon, a long time, always, never…and beautiful, tremendous, huge, bigly, fantastic, wonderfully…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  50. @45. Because the parameters of “morality” are not fixed. Hug a co-worker today if they’re in tears over a problem and you may be accused of ‘assault’– 20 years ago it would pass simply as ’empathy.’ The ex-veep’s a documented plagiarist and a habitual hugger/groper. So what- everybody knows it. Trump’s no prize either on this, as we know, too. Applying some transient standard of ‘morality’ chasing thse foilbles down rabbit holes is not going to be much of a wedge; learning African-Americans,essential to his win, are pressuring JoeyBee to pick a black female running mate is.
    ___

    OT- Trump presser just ended; surprise, he didn’t stay away from the cameras long, did he.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. Well, OK, now we have a report of a woman who says that Ms. Reade told her as far back as 1995 that Sen. Biden had put his hand under her skirt. Although that isn’t definitive proof that it happened, it does counter the suspicion that this particular salacious detail is something that Ms. Reade has recently added to the story, providing that this Lynda LaCasse is also being truthful.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  52. @47. I’m sure that some people looked at their calendars and raised an eyebrow when Patti was born, but I would bet that the vast majority of Americans were pretty tolerant of that sort of thing.

    Not really; the Lord has nothing to do with it; and Nancy remained hesitant to discuss it– it’s an old ploy as you well know; hell, my own uncle, back from WW2, knocked up some babe and rather than marrying her, they just bought her off.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. I have acquired more thoughts. How would it have been physically possible? I was doing professional office work in the summers during that time period. She would have been wearing suit. Pants suit, clearly not possible. Skirt suit, she would have been wearing panty-hose. 100 degrees outside? Pantyhose. -30 degrees outside? Panty hose. If you were a professional woman wearing a skirt in 1993, pantyhose. Also not possible. No one went without hose if they were wearing a skirt in 1993. Business casual would have been slacks and a buttondown shirt, maybe a vest over the top or a blazer if the AC was high in her office. If it had been beyond business casual and she had been in shorts, shorts were long bermuda type shorts during that period. They were not short-shorts that would have given any kind of easy access. There was a lot of fabric in layers in women’s professional clothes. Shirts were tucked in, skirts and slacks AND shorts were all belted, so top-down access would also have been a problem. Pantyhose, sometimes even UNDER shorts. If the report had been re shoulders, breasts, even over the clothes anywhere, it would be more possible, but what she is actually reporting doesn’t fit. It just doesn’t make sense.

    Nic (896fdf)

  54. Pence was asked about how they’ve fixed the problems from when he was promising 4M, and 27M tests last month. He is now saying that his promise on March 13 was for 4M tests by the end of the next week, was a misunderstanding of what he said. He said there is a difference between having 4M tests, and being able to process 4M tests.

    Now he’s saying the old Obama system would never be able to process the tests at the volume needed.

    I don’t know if this is supposed to inform, misinform, misdirect, or what. If you promise to pay me $2 on Tuesday, I don’t care if you don’t have the capacity in your wallet to carry 2 whole dollars, that seems like a problem understanding of the basic premise of getting me my $2 on Tuesday, figure it the eff out.

    If you can’t do what you say, explain why and fix it. Don’t say you’re going to do it, fail, blame a person that hasn’t been around for years, then promise that now you’re going to do it next month. Why should we believe you’ve figured it out now, when you can’t even admit that you were wrong then?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  55. Mr 123 wrote:

    It’s weird to see people talking about how the MSM is covering up this story when it’s on the front page of CNN, covered by the NYT and Business Insider (I think they’re a Slate spin off?) are all covering the story.

    A site search of The New York Times for Tara Reade, conducted at 6:40 PM EDT, returned no articles since April 16th, eight days before the news of the Larry King tape was revealed.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  56. @47. Postscript, re–‘that era’– maybe you outta re-read Grace Metalious’ 1956 novel, Peyton Place— or just watch the film– anything w/Lana Turner is worth a look.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. Mr 123 wrote:

    I think Biden did something totally unacceptable to Tara Reid and would love it if he withdrew. If the DNC is competent they will have figured out how deal with this other than crowning Bernie.

    That’s just it: Senator Sanders has over 900 committed delegates, to Mr Biden’s 1,323; next in line would be Elizabeth Warren . . . with 77 delegates. There is no way to replace Mr Biden with anyone other than Mr Sanders without the Bernie Bros going absolutely ape.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  58. 46.Carter lusted in his heart, DCSCA, don’t forget that!

    Whereas JFK was a man of action- and he got plenty of it. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. JVW wrote:

    BI certainly did commit “good journalism”. And that begs the question: With unparalleled resources and staffing, why didn’t either of the two powerhouses, New York Times and The Washington Post, break the story?

    Yes, thanks Dana. My whole point is that it has been the smaller, less-known media who has broken this story while the NYT, WaPo, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, et al. are content to sit around and count coronavirus cases and talk to guests who want to lay blame at the feet of the Administration.

    The credentialed media have never gotten over the loss of their ‘gatekeeper’ status. It used to be that if “the NYT, WaPo, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, et al” didn’t publish a story, nobody knew about it. They should have learned from Rathergate that those days are long gone, but they still act as though if they ignore a story, nobody will hear about it.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  60. @ 33

    The one caveat I’ll offer, is that while Biden’s family has cashed in on his name. I haven’t seen any evidence that he’s encouraged it or helped it.

    Time123 (52fb0e) — 4/27/2020 @ 2:40 pm

    Yeah, I don’t see how Hunter nor Joe’s Brother wouldn’t have gotten their piece of that nice pie with Joe’s explicit involvement/support.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  61. @ 41

    A woman does not have to be an emotional, basketcased bimbo to be the victim of a dirty of old man’s clumsy assault.

    Yep, I think there is a strong likelihood that Biden behaved inappropriately in some way towards her.

    There are oodles of reports that Biden may have acted inappropriately, and most were waved away as “Joe being Joe”. Like skinny dipping in front of female SS agents:
    https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2014/08/01/biden-swims-naked-upsetting-female-secret-service-agents-book-claims

    whembly (fd57f6)

  62. Open up today, tomorrow, next week, yesterday, very soon, a long time, always, never…and beautiful, tremendous, huge, bigly, fantastic, wonderfully…

    I’m glad I wasn’t taking a sip of coffee, Klink!

    norcal (a5428a)

  63. Reagan was divorced, knocked up Nancy w/Patti long before he married the Ice Queen. When I was twelve, my old man went after my mother with a bottle. I got in the way. It’s off the record, on the QT, and very hush-hush…

    —- DCSCA

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/27/2020 @ 3:42 pm

    Actually morality been the same for a couple of millenia. Tnou shalt not covet your neighbor’s wife, and all that, old chap.

    But your reference to Reagan fails. Hanky panky with tje woman you end up making wife number 2 is not sexual assault. And sexual assault is what Tara Reade says Joe Biden did to her.

    So did Reagan try to rape someone at some point, or are you just indulging in your usual whine about RR?

    Kishnevi (6a5d3c)

  65. Ms. Reade’s claim certainly can’t (and shouldn’t) be discounted.

    On the other hand, the fact that she told people 27 years ago that her famous former boss groped her doesn’t make it true. She could have invented or twisted the facts of the story then, for any number of reasons.

    In other words, it seems necessary, but not sufficient, to establish her claim.

    If she’s being truthful, I hope more conclusive evidence emerges.

    Dave (1bb933)

  66. In other words, it seems necessary, but not sufficient, to establish her claim.

    If she’s being truthful, I hope more conclusive evidence emerges.

    Can’t we just use this as an excuse to replace Biden with…not Bernie, please, not Bernie, anybody but Bernie…except Trump, anybody but Bernie or Trump.

    Can we get that gay kid from Indiana, he seems fine, whatever, just not Bernie, or Trump.

    Hey Democrats, choose Kasich, he’s available, he’s not a gay kid from Indiana, but Ohio’s next door, and you get to say you won.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  67. I simply want the media to go after Biden with the same zeal and fervor as they did investigating Kavanaugh.

    If not, then they need to admit that the Kavanaugh coverage was all partisan hackery.

    Failing that, as Dana stated, the media loses all credibility.

    FWIW: I believe Biden is innocent until proven guilty, even in the face of a “job interview” being the next POTUS. I also believe Tara deserves good faith investigative efforts to vet her claims.

    whemb’s snarky mode activated:
    Continuing JWV’s list of Biden comparison to the current POTUS.

    On the one hand: Trump claimed on the off-cuff audio that women ‘let you grab them by the pussy’ couched in terms that consent was given. Trump was only talking — outside of the earshot of any woman — about what he supposedly does. Who knows what he actually does? But even in the bragging context, the woman consents. Trump’s joking to Billy Bush were about woman’s susceptibility to star power.

    On the other: Biden is being accused of literally grabbing a pussy…without consent. As in, he’s being accused of exactly what Trump was accused related to that leaked Access Hollywood audio.

    Can 2020 get any weirder?

    whembly (c30c83)

  68. Can’t we just use this as an excuse to replace Biden with…not Bernie, please, not Bernie, anybody but Bernie…except Trump, anybody but Bernie or Trump.

    I approve of this message.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. But even in the bragging context, the woman consents.

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. On the one hand: Trump claimed on the off-cuff audio that women ‘let you grab them by the pussy’ couched in terms that consent was given. Trump was only talking — outside of the earshot of any woman — about what he supposedly does. Who knows what he actually does? But even in the bragging context, the woman consents. Trump’s joking to Billy Bush were about woman’s susceptibility to star power.

    Two things can be true, Biden is a letch, and Trump is a letch.

    With Trump, you have 5 women swearing in court that he sexually assaulted them.
    1. Ivana Trump
    2. Jill Harth
    3. E. Jean Carrol
    4. Summer Zervos
    5. Alva Johnson

    And then there are the 15 that have alleged it, to the same level as Tara Reade.
    1. Jessica Leads
    2. Kristin Anderson
    3. Lisa Boyne
    4. Cathy Heller
    5. Temple Taggart McDowell
    6. Karena Virginia
    7. Karen Johnson
    8. Mindy McGillivray
    9. Jennifer Murphy
    10. Rachel Crooks
    11. Natasha Stoynoff
    12. Juliet Huddy
    13. Jessica Drake
    14. Ninni Laaksonen
    15. Cassandra Searles

    And then there are the hookers.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  71. …guys… can 2020 get any weirder?

    whembly (c30c83)

  72. Dave wrote:

    On the other hand, the fact that she told people 27 years ago that her famous former boss groped her doesn’t make it true. She could have invented or twisted the facts of the story then, for any number of reasons.

    Which is pretty much what conservatives were saying in 2018 about Christine Ford.

    There are two pieces of contemporaneous evidence: Mr Kavanaugh’s appointment calendar, which is evidence toward exoneration, and Miss Reade’s mother’s call to Larry King, which is evidence of guilt. Neither is wholly persuasive, but it is immense schadenfreude that I note that it was the left who said we should Believe All Women on such matters while conservatives said that uncorroborated claims are not proof.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  73. Mr 123 wrote:

    It’s weird to see people talking about how the MSM is covering up this story when it’s on the front page of CNN, covered by the NYT and Business Insider (I think they’re a Slate spin off?) are all covering the story.

    A site search of The New York Times for Tara Reade, conducted at 6:40 PM EDT, returned no articles since April 16th, eight days before the news of the Larry King tape was revealed.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/27/2020 @ 3:45 pm

    I repeated your experiment. You’re right. The NYT isn’t covering this.

    Time123 (306531)

  74. In 1993, when the younger and more current Clinton was newly elected, there was already a push against wearing pantyhose, even in Washington D.C.:

    In Newsweek last week, former White House press aide Kirstin Hyde used pantyhose to sum up the difference in style between the Clinton and Bush administrations. “No woman in the Bush administration,” she said, “would ever go into the White House without pantyhose. Even in the wee hours of the night. Even on weekends.”

    Not everyone wore them, Nic. Further, without getting too graphic, pantyhose do not prevent unwanted intrusion. They may require a bit more energy to accomplish the goal, but they are not the preventative shield you seem to think they would be.

    Dana (0feb77)

  75. I… I, um… wait a minute… there it is. I must confess I’m getting a schadenchub just thinking about the fresh Hell that may await Slow Joe.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. The retired Commandant of Stalag 13 wrote:

    Two things can be true, Biden is a letch, and Trump is a letch.

    Then shouldn’t your vote be determined on policy, in which case, for conservatives, President Trump has to get your support? Do you want Amy Coney Barrett or Elizabeth Warren replacing Ruth Bader Ginsberg?

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  77. The NYT isn’t covering this.

    No, you’re wrong, they are covering it. With a blanket… until it stops moving…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  78. On the one hand: Trump claimed on the off-cuff audio that women ‘let you grab them by the pussy’ couched in terms that consent was given. Trump was only talking — outside of the earshot of any woman — about what he supposedly does. Who knows what he actually does?

    The Dozen+ women who have accused him of rape, sexual assault, and harassment?

    Time123 (306531)

  79. All I got to say on this topic is Joe gotta go…and Juanita Brodderick best hope the impending pork shortage doesnt last very long.

    urbanleftbehind (0a0101)

  80. The better-looking Dana wrote:

    In Newsweek last week, former White House press aide Kirstin Hyde used pantyhose to sum up the difference in style between the Clinton and Bush administrations. “No woman in the Bush administration,” she said, “would ever go into the White House without pantyhose. Even in the wee hours of the night. Even on weekends.”

    Not everyone wore them, Nic. Further, without getting too graphic, pantyhose do not prevent unwanted intrusion. They may require a bit more energy to accomplish the goal, but they are not the preventative shield you seem to think they would be.

    I’m sure that it was simply a matter of dress code rather than any sort of preventative shield.

    However, we all owe Katie Couric a debt of gratitude for making bare legs acceptable business fashion.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  81. A conscious or unconscious decision not to resist a sexual assault does not translate to consent.

    Dave (1bb933)

  82. Can’t we just use this as an excuse to replace Biden with…not Bernie, please, not Bernie, anybody but Bernie…except Trump, anybody but Bernie or Trump.

    You’ll discover more people to add to that list if this got real.

    I think you’d have to run through at least 30 or 40 names before you’ll discover one good one.

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  83. @78 I’m talking about comparing the Access Hollywood tape to Tara’s accusation.

    Jeez guys, did ya’ll not notice that I activated my snark mode?

    Tough crowd…

    whembly (c30c83)

  84. Then shouldn’t your vote be determined on policy, in which case, for conservatives, President Trump has to get your support? Do you want Amy Coney Barrett or Elizabeth Warren replacing Ruth Bader Ginsberg?

    I also live in Kentucky, and I don’t think my vote against Trump matters all that much.

    ACB isn’t getting the call from Trump, so I assume you want Pence to choose the replacement for RBG. Plus, RBG will live forever, she was born when wooly mammoths were alive at Big Bone Lick, she’ll be around until the heat death of the universe.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  85. Ohhh, so you were being sarcastic?

    Dave (1bb933)

  86. Plus, RBG will live forever, she was born when wooly mammoths were alive at Big Bone Lick, she’ll be around until the heat death of the universe.

    I hope she and Keith Richards will be happy together.

    Dave (1bb933)

  87. @63. =yawn= “Fake quotes” are barcalounger lazy, Haiku; you could be a candidate for the crowd counter gig for Trump at his next inaugural.

    @64. Actually morality been the same for a couple of millenia.

    Except it has not.

    But your reference to Reagan fails…

    Except it doesn’t; morality is a ‘transient.’ Once upon a time you could buy and sell human beings and be hanged for horse stealing in this land; hell, even Kavanaugh documented his predilection to depravities and debauchery in letters and on calendars yet still passed the high bar to make SCOTUS. Morality is a transient.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. On the one hand: Trump claimed on the off-cuff audio that women ‘let you grab them by the pussy’ couched in terms that consent was given. Trump was only talking — outside of the earshot of any woman — about what he supposedly does. Who knows what he actually does? But even in the bragging context, the woman consents. Trump’s joking to Billy Bush were about woman’s susceptibility to star power.

    No Whembly. Trump made it crystal clear this was not with consent, and that women were scared into ‘letting you do it’ if ‘you’re a star’.

    I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

    This isn’t a man who is waiting for consent. This is an old man who is groping women because he has absolutely no impulse control. A spoiled rich kid who can’t even control himself with teen-usa contestants. Who can’t even control himself with his own daughter.

    Trump’s confession of groping women and kissing them without warning lines up remarkably with a large number of accusations from women over many years. This tape led to the virtually the entire RNC condemning Trump, yet refusing to withdraw endorsements, out of fear. But let’s not pretend Trump didn’t brag about assaulting women sexually. Trump is a very wealthy man. He doesn’t need to do those things to get laid. But he did them, like Bill Clinton, because he could.

    Trump’s actions aren’t what’s dark about our age though. It’s the way some defend this stuff that’s really dark. And Biden’s scandal helps highlight the problem.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  89. The last thing I’ll say about pantyhose and the reasonable/unreasonableness of access: Where there’s a will, there’s a way. And that depended on Biden’s determination in the matter.

    Dana (0feb77)

  90. @70. And they all were likely hot– or were in their time. The tired guys in an open Akron bar off the third shift at Goodyear grin at his wealth,his lifestyle and his way with the babes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. About the issue of consent, according to Reade, this is what happened:

    When she resisted his advances, Reade said, Biden expressed annoyance and said, “Aw man, I heard you liked me.”

    So, if her recounting is accurate, then Biden believed that, if she did like him (per someone else’s claim), that it would be OK for him to sexually assault her. Omg.

    Dana (0feb77)

  92. “Nothing Beats A Great Pair Of L’eggs.” – eh, Dana?! Would that incredibly successful advertising slogan from the 80’and 90’s be considered sexist in 2020?! But then, sex sells.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. schadenchub

    Colonel Haiku,

    That is priceless! Did you create that word?

    Man, there are some good laughs on this thread. Even the pantyhose talk is amusing.

    norcal (a5428a)

  94. The only way this dialogue makes sense is if the “problems” that Tara Reade told her mother she had, did not involve Senator Biden himself:

    KING: San Luis Obispo, California, hello.

    CALLER: Yes, hello. I’m wondering what a staffer would do besides go to the press in Washington? My daughter has just left there, after working for a prominent senator, and could not get through [to him?] with her problems at all, and the only thing she could have done was go to the press, and she chose not to do it out of respect for him.

    KING: In other words, she had a story to tell but, out of respect for the person she worked for, she didn’t tell it?

    CALLER: That’s true.

    She could not get through to who?

    A. Biden.

    Why would she hesitate out of respect – why woud she still have respect for him – if tit was
    something Biden himself did?

    This is clearly talking about other staff members – something. Something maybe not even sexual at all.

    She does not say that her daughter was sexually harassed and retaliated against and fired, like Tara Reade claimed she said beforre the date and video was discovered.

    Her mother does, however, pretty clearly, indicate she’s talking about someone, or several people, other than the Senator himself, because what she says makes no sense if she was.

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  95. #88

    No Whembly. Trump made it crystal clear this was not with consent, and that women were scared into ‘letting you do it’ if ‘you’re a star’.

    I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

    Yes Dustin, that’s a man trash talking about his star power. Not admitting that he’s a serial sexual predator to someone else.

    Trump seems to delight in the fact that women want him due to his star power. However, Biden’s accusation is the one on the sexual assault spectrum.

    I was mere commenting a little bit of SNARK as to how crazy 2020 is. Our country’s inability to elect NORMAL people without these sorts of baggage is on stage here…

    Of course, Trump’s actual accusers deserves good faith investigation, and prosecutions if warranted, just like Tara’s accusations.

    On the flip side, we need to ensure both Biden and Trump get the presumption of innocence too.

    Or, we’ll keep seeing something like we saw during the Kavanaugh Bullcrappery to be more successful.

    whembly (c30c83)

  96. The Intercept, from which I took this transcript says:

    https://theintercept.com/2020/04/24/new-evidence-tara-reade-joe-biden/

    On August 11, 1993, King aired a program titled, “Washington: The Cruelest City on Earth?” Toward the end of the program, he introduces a caller dialing in from San Luis Obispo, California. Congressional records list August 1993 as Reade’s last month of employment with Biden’s Senate office, and, according to property records, Reade’s mother, Jeanette Altimus, was living in San Luis Obispo County. Here is the transcript of the beginning of the call: … [so it’s close to certain, given all the surrounding facts, that it was her]

    …King’s panel of guests offered no suggestions, and instead the conversation veered into a discussion of whether any of the men on set would leak damaging personal information about a rival to the press.

    I would bet that the full transcript would show that Tara Reade’s mother, beyond a certain point, did not get a chance to talk, and did not get a chance to clarify that the problems did not concern any issues with Joe Biden himself. Or maybe even she tried, and we;re not getting the place in the transcript where you can see that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  97. It’s not like Trump didn’t brag doing other super letchy shenanigans live in front of a national audience before…

    On Howard Stern in 2005

    Well, I’ll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. You know, I’m inspecting, I want to make sure that everything is good.

    You know, the dresses. ‘Is everyone okay?’ You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that. But no, I’ve been very good.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  98. Klink say what you will about Trump there’s no illusions about who he is.

    Yes Dustin, that’s a man trash talking about his star power. Not admitting that he’s a serial sexual predator to someone else.

    He conflated predation with star power because he was close friends with the Clintons and Epstein and didn’t understand that there’s a difference between being powerful and being a sexual predator.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  99. 93… yes, I confess, thx norcal!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  100. So, if her recounting is accurate, then Biden believed that, if she did like him (per someone else’s claim), that it would be OK for him to sexually assault her. Omg.

    He comes off like a horny 8th grader…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  101. 21. Dana (0feb77) — 4/27/2020 @ 5:56 pm

    So, if her recounting is accurate, then Biden believed that, if she did like him (per someone else’s claim), that it would be OK for him to sexually assault her. Omg.

    Would Senator Biden do exactly what was just then getting Senator Packwood into a great deal of trouble??

    Tara Reade says this happened in 1993. which is after the story about Senator Packwood broke:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Packwood

    Packwood’s political career began to unravel in November 1992, when a Washington Post story detailed claims of sexual abuse and assault from ten women, chiefly former staffers and lobbyists.[32] Publication of the story was delayed until after the 1992 election, as Packwood had denied the allegations and the Post had not gathered enough information about the story at the time.[33][34] Packwood defeated Democratic nominee Les AuCoin 52.1% to 46.5%. Eventually 19 women came forward.[35]

    Packwood had described everything – his hits and his misses – in his diary, which the Senate Ethics Committee later wanted to read. (Packwood was trying to establish consensual relationships, and thought this approach could get one started, and it evidently did work some of the time, if perhaps the woman had a crush on him, or the beginnings of one.)

    And another thing, if Biden did tis thing, and then, would he not try to make sure she didn’t tell anyone? Maybe by paying her off?

    And Tara Reade, why wouldn;t she tell some of the women who had accused Senator Packwood, or someone linked to them?

    Sammy Finkelman (d530d0)

  102. @74 and 89 Not with just a casual grab. He would have needed to rip them. If you are telling the story then it becomes, “he ripped my hose and shoved his fingers in”.

    @94 That does make sense from the phone-call.

    Nic (896fdf)

  103. In answer to your question, Sammy, yes I think Biden still would’ve tried it, regardless of Packwood’s troubles.The reason I think that is that it’s pretty standard for men in very powerful positions to believe they are untouchable with regard to any misbehavior, especially when it involves women (see: Donald J. Trump).

    Dana (0feb77)

  104. What an utterly manipulative way for the Washington Post to frame the story tonight. Clearly they are being pushed to address the matter, but they are going to make damn sure that readers believe the accusations are little more than a political attack against Biden by those those aligned with Trump:

    Some allies of President Trump pointed Monday to new claims by a woman who said she was told about sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden decades ago, renewing attention to questions about the past behavior of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

    Further:

    Biden has done several interviews since the assault allegations emerged but has yet to be asked about them. It has, however, been a topic for other top Democrats, including some of his potential running mates.

    And why is that, Washington Post??? Why have no major media outlets, whether print media or cable news shows, asked him directly about the allegations, Washington Post?? It’s unbelievable that the WaPo actually printed this observation.

    Dana (0feb77)

  105. 2020 third party campaign slogan “You don’t have to vote for a rapist!”

    asset (7b7898)

  106. You all do know that The Intercept is Glenn Greenwald, right? The Russian inlet for dezinformatsiya who, along with Wikileaks, disseminated the national secrets stolen by Edward Snowden? They’re the ones who put this story out hoping and contriving that it will get traction from the legitimate media and from the public.

    If this is not Russian interference in the election, to help Trump, nothing is.

    nk (1d9030)

  107. Dana (0feb77) — 4/27/2020 @ 7:49 pm

    In answer to your question, Sammy, yes I think Biden still would’ve tried it, regardless of Packwood’s troubles.

    Only f he’s been doing thatt for along time.

    The reason I think that is that it’s pretty standard for men in very powerful positions to believe they are untouchable with regard to any misbehavior, especially when it involves women (see: Donald J. Trump).

    It was clear, after November 1992, that Packwood wasn’t untouchable. You could argue that Biden could think he was more so, but he wasn’t Ted Kennedy.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  108. DCSCA wrote:

    @64. Actually morality been the same for a couple of millenia.

    Except it has not.

    But your reference to Reagan fails…

    Except it doesn’t; morality is a ‘transient.’ Once upon a time you could buy and sell human beings and be hanged for horse stealing in this land; hell, even Kavanaugh documented his predilection to depravities and debauchery in letters and on calendars yet still passed the high bar to make SCOTUS. Morality is a transient.

    No, actually, morality — at least as determined by human beings, rather than God — is not transient, but a matter of convenience.

    No divorced man could ever be elected President . . . until one was. The Democrats tried to make an issue of Mr Reagan’s second marriage, with signs like “Jane Wyman was right,” but by 1980 too many people were divorced and on second husbands or wives, and the only-once-married President Carter had proven himself to be an ineffectual wimp.

    When the revelations about President Clinton’s liaisons with Monica Lewinski came out, many Democratic commentators said that there was no way he could survive that . . . until he fought it, and he did, because too many adults had their own experiences with adultery, and, to be quite blunt about it, a lot of guys saw a 49-50 year old guy getting blow jobs from a 21-year-old chick as a good thing, something they’d like to happen for themselves.

    I’m old enough to remember when people shacking up without the benefit of clergy was novel and shocking, but now it’s considered kind of stupid if a couple doesn’t at least try out living together before getting married . . . if they get married at all. It sure is a lot more convenient not having two addresses.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  109. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    And another thing, if Biden did tis thing, and then, would he not try to make sure she didn’t tell anyone? Maybe by paying her off?

    This statement assumes two things:

    1 – That he was thinking with the big head; and
    2 – That he was not, after then twenty years in the United States Senate, an entitled prick who thought he could get away with anything.

    Is there any evidence to take either or both of those assumptions?

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  110. Our Windy City barrister wrote:

    You all do know that The Intercept is Glenn Greenwald, right? The Russian inlet for dezinformatsiya who, along with Wikileaks, disseminated the national secrets stolen by Edward Snowden? They’re the ones who put this story out hoping and contriving that it will get traction from the legitimate media and from the public.

    If this is not Russian interference in the election, to help Trump, nothing is.

    That was the thing about 2016: it wasn’t дезинформация, false or misleading information that is spread deliberately to deceive, but truthful information. What Wikileaks exposed were accurate copies of Clinton campaign and DNC e-mails. The problem for the lovely Hillary Clinton wasn’t that people were lying about her; it’s that people were telling the truth about her.

    Does Vladimir Vladimirovich want President Trump to be re-elected? He probably does, but that doesn’t mean we should automatically be opposed. There are times, and this is one of them, that Soviet Russian interests and ours coincide.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  111. I am no talk about 2016, Comrade Dana in Kentucky. I am talk about 2013. I am no talk about Hillary’s emails. I am talk about NSA surveillance operations. Is everybody forget Edward Snowden but me?

    nk (1d9030)

  112. Does Vladimir Vladimirovich want President Trump to be re-elected? He probably does,

    We should not permit such a degree of foreign influence in our election because nothing like that is free. Yes, maybe Putin’s selective release of dirt was still accurate dirt. But Trump clearly owes a lot of loyalty to Putin (and some other terrible characters).

    Russian interests and ours coincide.

    Russia’s people are fine by me, but the government is murderous. By virtue of criticizing Putin, they want you and your loved ones to perish. Embarrassing Hillary is not worth helping Russia gain tremendous power over the US government. This was George Washington’s concern about partisanship. Our enemies will play us off eachother.

    And now we’re seeing republicans prep for the 2020 election by normalizing how good it is for Russia to help Trump. Yet another way the GOP looks horrible.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  113. How is this current administration a boon for Putin?

    If anything, this government has taken harsher measures than the previous administration…

    whembly (c30c83)

  114. “ …guys… can 2020 get any weirder?”

    Because of the upcoming election, Tee Dee Ess, Trump himself, the Dems etc., I started out the year adding ‘2020 gonna be off the hook!’ at the end of internet comments, text to friends about something ridiculous I was linking to etc.

    I stopped doing it in early March, I mean what was the point?

    My friends still let me know I jinxed the year.
    _

    harkin (485617)

  115. “ How is this current administration a boon for Putin?”

    Nothing to do with facts, it’s just a bit of nonsense for the lowbrows to repeat ad nauseum.
    _

    harkin (485617)

  116. Joe Biden thought Tara was hot
    But consent she did give not
    The Dems didn’t care
    They thought it unfair
    And the Times thought it all rot.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  117. Insider sought access to Biden’s senatorial papers, which are housed at the University of Delaware, to search for records that may shed light on Reade’s claims. The university denied the request, saying Biden’s papers “will remain closed to the public until two years after Mr. Biden retires from public life.”

    If Reade actually filed a complaint in 1993, perhaps the document would have been packaged with Biden’s senatorial papers (unless she didn’t file one, or it disappeared…) If Biden were interested in clearing this up once and for all, he could authorize that those papers be released to see if the document is there. At least that would discredit Reade’s claims. Why wouldn’t he want to do that if it would help get it out of the media?

    Dana (0feb77)

  118. How is this current administration a boon for Putin?

    Hmmm, let’s see. How about…
    ▪ Trump’s undermining NATO and our traditional alliances with other free nations.
    ▪ Trump’s betrayal of the Kurds, this opening northern and eastern Syria to Putin’s little green men.
    ▪ Trump never saying a single cross word toward Putin ever since the Golden Escalator ride.
    ▪ Trump’s hiring Paul Manafort, a guy who had a Russian spy on his payroll.
    ▪ Trump’s softness toward Putin’s invasion and annexation of the Crimean region of Ukraine; in July 2016, Trump said, “The people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”
    ▪ Trump’s constant denials that Putin was behind his “sweeping and systematic” hacking/disinformation campaign.
    ▪ Trump gave classified intel to two senior Russians when he was with bragging that he sacked Comey because of Russia.
    ▪ Trump literally thanked Putin for expelling US diplomats from Russia.
    ▪ Trump was willing to give back the two Russian spy compounds that Obama confiscated, until the PR blowback became too much.
    ▪ Trump’s general softness on sanctions and his willingness to lift them, despite the Magnitsky Act.
    ▪ Trump’s lifting of sanctions on Deripaska, one of Putin’s pet oligarchs.
    ▪ Trump defended the USSR invasion of Afghanistan.
    ▪ Trump’s silence on Putin’s illegal taking a Ukrainian navy vessel and imprisoning Ukrainian sailors.
    ▪ Trump’s urging G7 members to bring Putin back in. Trump was rightfully rebuffed.
    ▪ Trump’s parroting Putin propaganda that Ukraine interfered in our American election.
    ▪ Trump’s freezing military aid to Ukraine, a country that is literally at war with Putin’s Russia.
    Yep, no “boon” that I can see.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  119. Insider sought access to Biden’s senatorial papers, which are housed at the University of Delaware, to search for records that may shed light on Reade’s claims. The university denied the request, saying Biden’s papers “will remain closed to the public until two years after Mr. Biden retires from public life.”

    If Reade actually filed a complaint in 1993, perhaps the document would have been packaged with Biden’s senatorial papers (unless she didn’t file one, or it disappeared…) If Biden were interested in clearing this up once and for all, he could authorize that those papers be released to see if the document is there. At least that would discredit Reade’s claims. Why wouldn’t he want to do that if it would help get it out of the media?

    Dana (0feb77) — 4/28/2020 @ 8:42 am

    From a politics standpoint that doesn’t work. The number of people that make rational decisions based on data is small so there’s little benefit in doing this. There aren’t a lot of people you’re going to persuade.
    -Your opponents won’t be convinced, they’ll just point to another place to look, as well as fish for other negative info.
    -Your supporters don’t need to be convinced.
    Either way it just feeds additional news cycles.

    He should *absolutely* do it. But it’s not a good idea from an election standpoint.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  120. As the Lakers and others return small business aid, Mnuchin says big companies could face “criminal liability.”

    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Tuesday that companies that received more than $2 million in small business loans would be audited by the Small Business Administration and could face “criminal liability” if it turns out they were not eligible to apply for the relief money.
    …..
    Last week, the Treasury and the S.B.A. clarified the certification requirements for borrowers to dissuade big companies that have access to other forms of capital from applying, saying that only firms without access to other forms of capital — such as selling shares or debt — would qualify.

    LOL! More blowing of hot air.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  121. Time123 @119.

    There may not be any complaint on file, but that wouldn’t disprove that a written one was made, and in the meantime, he would be providing raw material for dozens of bad stories about himself.

    Retires from public life means making no speeches even.

    The qustion is, though, that if Tara Reade complained about anything resembling what she says now, why didn’t they at least try to get her to sign a non-disclosure agreement, paying her off with money budgeted for operating the office? Especially after Senator Psckwood got into trouble

    That’s what House and Senate offices with real sexual harassment and more complaints did until recently.

    She should show us her non-disclosure agreement. She can’t because there isn’t one. But can she explain why there isn’t one?

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  122. 118. You left out hiring Mike Flynn as his national security adviser, a man who Obama had cut short his term as Director of the Defense Intelligence agency, because he thought he might have been recruited as a spy by the GRU. (Obama took a moderate and cautious approach to many things.)

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  123. @ Paul: many of these are simply policies that are not much different from past administrations.

    ▪ Trump’s undermining NATO and our traditional alliances with other free nations.

    Yeah no. Trump challenged the member states to abide by their previously agreed NATO funding targets. He strengthened NATO here, you just didn’t like the manner how Trump did this.

    ▪ Trump’s betrayal of the Kurds, this opening northern and eastern Syria to Putin’s little green men.

    Why didn’t Congress authorize these military engagements in the first place? Or, was there a treaty that I’m missing? Are we at war with Russia? Better yet, are we right to be in Syria in the first place?

    ▪ Trump never saying a single cross word toward Putin ever since the Golden Escalator ride.

    He never says a cross words to a lot of folks. If Putin were ever to criticize Trump, you damn well would expect a counter-punch from Trump. This is a character-flaw that concerned me greatly when Trump was elected… as, if you engage Trump in flattering way, you’ll get him to agree to just about anything. I was worried that the Democrats would actually try to work with Trump to blunt some of the GOP agendas. I was wrong because Democrats couldn’t get over losing the election and forced Trump into the GOP’s corner even more.

    ▪ Trump’s hiring Paul Manafort, a guy who had a Russian spy on his payroll.

    This was a questionable hiring, whom was only on the campaign for a few months whom Trump FIRED when that bogus Ukrainian black book was publicised. Not sure this was a boon for Putin.

    ▪ Trump’s softness toward Putin’s invasion and annexation of the Crimean region of Ukraine; in July 2016, Trump said, “The people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”

    He was also the president who increased additional sanctions and authorized lethal aids to Ukraine over Russian diplomat’s objection. Trump says a lot of things in his “let’s make a deal” persona, but it’s undeniable that his actions towards Russia over Ukraine is anything “soft”.

    ▪ Trump’s constant denials that Putin was behind his “sweeping and systematic” hacking/disinformation campaign.

    That’s for Trump’s own ego… he doesn’t want to give any credence that his 2016 win was tainted. Yes, it’s childish and unbecoming of a POTUS, but it’s also obvious.

    ▪ Trump gave classified intel to two senior Russians when he was with bragging that he sacked Comey because of Russia.

    What was the intel? My google-fu isn’t finding it. He sacked Comey because he’s a two-faced liar. Telling Trump that he wasn’t the subject of an investigation while publicly stating that he was. Not sure how that’s a boon for Putin, other than the chaos of all this benefited Putin.

    ▪ Trump literally thanked Putin for expelling US diplomats from Russia.

    You sarcasm-meter must have been broken. He thanked Putin for reducing payroll cost… lol.

    ▪ Trump was willing to give back the two Russian spy compounds that Obama confiscated, until the PR blowback became too much.

    This I did disagree with back then and it was also early in his tenure. He was in “spite-Obama” mode then.

    ▪ Trump’s general softness on sanctions and his willingness to lift them, despite the Magnitsky Act.

    But… he didn’t lift them and even imposed ADDITIONAL sanctions.

    ▪ Trump’s lifting of sanctions on Deripaska, one of Putin’s pet oligarchs.

    I don’t know the story of this.

    ▪ Trump defended the USSR invasion of Afghanistan.

    Trump says stupid stuff. News at 10pm!

    ▪ Trump’s silence on Putin’s illegal taking a Ukrainian navy vessel and imprisoning Ukrainian sailors.

    I recalled he did commented on it… but, what are you wanting here? Trump’s overall reaction to all of this has been better than the Obama administration. Maybe not exactly what we’re looking for, but it’s a definite improvement.

    ▪ Trump’s urging G7 members to bring Putin back in. Trump was rightfully rebuffed.

    Aye. Only rationale I can think Trump doing this is to get Putin back to the table to “make a deal” for Putin to stop doing crap in return for G7 benefits.

    ▪ Trump’s parroting Putin propaganda that Ukraine interfered in our American election.

    Okay. He gets a lot of things wrong here, however: There’s numerous documented evidence that Ukraine did interfere with our election (not to the degree that Russia did, but it did happen). See the clinton campaign having Ukraine offices write op-ed before election and the bogus Manafort “black book”. This is an extension of Trump’s unwillingness to give credence that his 2016 election was tainted.

    ▪ Trump’s freezing military aid to Ukraine, a country that is literally at war with Putin’s Russia.

    That was eventually released, and other lethal aids were already in the works prior to this.

    So yeah, all of this is one big Rorschach test. You will see what you want to see.

    Furthermore, I’m curious where did you get that list? What site?

    But, I’d argue that, at the very least, Trump administration has been tougher on Russia than the past few administrations. We can debate that it’s not tough enough, but its farcial to claim that Putin has seen any “boon” that Trump was elected, other than the general chaos caused by the improperly predicated Crossfire Hurricane and Mueller investigation.

    whembly (51f28e)

  124. 118. You left out hiring Mike Flynn as his national security adviser, a man who Obama had cut short his term as Director of the Defense Intelligence agency, because he thought he might have been recruited as a spy by the GRU. (Obama took a moderate and cautious approach to many things.)

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697) — 4/28/2020 @ 9:17 am

    Sammy, Flynn knew where the “bodies” were in the Obama administration and he was a particular thorn to Obama over their handling of ISIS and Israel. Flynn was looking to clean house and the Obama-flunkies were terrified.

    whembly (51f28e)

  125. The better-looking Dana wrote:

    If Reade actually filed a complaint in 1993, perhaps the document would have been packaged with Biden’s senatorial papers (unless she didn’t file one, or it disappeared…) If Biden were interested in clearing this up once and for all, he could authorize that those papers be released to see if the document is there. At least that would discredit Reade’s claims. Why wouldn’t he want to do that if it would help get it out of the media?

    If a complaint was filed and is found therein, it would hurt Mr Biden’s campaign. If no complaint is found therein, either one was never filed or it was filed and removed from the records before they are released. Since it would be in Mr Biden’s interest for no such complaint to be on record, people who want to believe he’s innocent would say, “See, she never made a complaint,” while people who want to believe Miss Reade would say, “It was roundfiled.” The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  126. You lost me at “bogus Ukrainian black book”, whembly, actually before that.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  127. MoeLarryCurly has nothing to run on, he can only run against something. We’ll see his supporters, from the Bubbas to the Ivans, spreading a lot of manure from now to November.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Trump is exactly the kind of leader you want your enemy to have. Stupid, cowardly, disloyal, delusional, incompetent, ignorant.

    nk (1d9030)

  129. @126

    You lost me at “bogus Ukrainian black book”, whembly, actually before that.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b) — 4/28/2020 @ 9:51 am

    From Feb 2020:
    https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/02/07/mueller-team-learned-in-april-2018-that-black-ledger-which-triggered-the-russia-collusion-investigation-was-fake/

    Consider yourself… found. 😉

    whembly (51f28e)

  130. Willfully lost…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. whembly, I won’t read a hyperpartisan site that permanently bam-sticked me.
    And instead of getting your FakeNews from an in-the-bag-for-Trump hack, you’d be better off getting it from a Ukrainian who was actually close to the situation.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  132. Mr. French has it right:

    What a nightmare indeed, for everyone. Every single side of this story is now living with the consequences of dreadful mistakes. Joe Biden is now confronting the “believe women” movement he helped build. Key media outlets and multiple media figures are now face-to-face with their own, post-Kavanaugh double standards. And, finally, the GOP is left without an arrow in its quiver against the Democratic nominee because of its own profound moral compromise.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  133. Red State says Trump is in the clear, it’s Mueller who was the bad guy!
    Case closed! STFU Paul!

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  134. Trump was effectively cleared. Herr Mueller is back to eating oatmeal and soup and napping in his Florida room.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  135. Trump was effectively cleared. Herr Mueller is back to eating oatmeal and soup and napping in his Florida room.

    Untrue unless you also agree the Chinese government has been effectively cleared of any misconduct with this virus, since party loyalists say so.

    But the GOP did disgrace itself if that’s what you meant.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  136. The only people who’ve brought disgrace to the GOP are the quislings who have fled to the Left and are doing their little hand-wringing dance on a daily basis and shamelessly claim it’s principled.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  137. keopectate, Hack-eew.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  138. nk wrote:

    Trump is exactly the kind of leader you want your enemy to have. Stupid, cowardly, disloyal, delusional, incompetent, ignorant.

    LOL! Hillary Clinton and her campaign wanted to run against Donald Trump! How’d that work out for them? :)

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  139. A snarky thought: Hillary Clinton led two Presidents into impeachment! :)

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  140. Mr Montagu quoted Mr French:

    What a nightmare indeed, for everyone. Every single side of this story is now living with the consequences of dreadful mistakes. Joe Biden is now confronting the “believe women” movement he helped build. Key media outlets and multiple media figures are now face-to-face with their own, post-Kavanaugh double standards. And, finally, the GOP is left without an arrow in its quiver against the Democratic nominee because of its own profound moral compromise.

    The GOP don’t need one: with this story, all Republicans need do is sit back and watch thye Democratic circular firing squad.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  141. Hill’ry wanted to run against Trump,
    But she was the one who got thumped
    The Dems were all gushin’
    That it was the Russians
    But she still got kicked in the rump

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  142. LOL! Hillary Clinton and her campaign wanted to run against Donald Trump! How’d that work out for them? :)

    Yes, that is the mindset, that the enemy is Hillary or the Democrats or Joe Biden, not Russia or China or the coronavirus, that Putin and Xi Jinping want you to have too.

    nk (1d9030)

  143. it’s not that I like Hillary or Biden. It’s that Trump is approximately as bad, (except the whole reelection validating the obstruction of justice strategy).

    nk’s right.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  144. The GOP don’t need one: with this story, all Republicans need do is sit back and watch thye Democratic circular firing squad.

    It’ll come back to the GOP because they squandered their moral authority by falling in with Trump. An honest response from Democrats regarding Biden is this:
    Sexual misconduct allegations against Trump: 25
    Sexual misconduct allegations against Biden: 1
    They can also not excuse Biden by saying they’re troubled by what Biden allegedly did, but there’s no pattern of behavior. It’s a one-off. With Trump, he has a long pattern of boorish behavior toward women. One standard, applied to all.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  145. Balding Biden thought Reade would jump on it
    But no interest, not even a tiny bit
    Joe said, “c’mon man…”
    “…heard you were a fan.”
    But, alas, her knees remained closely knit

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  146. — General Patton, Field Marshall Erwin Rommel is on line one.
    — Thanks, Trixie.
    — Hiya, Erwin, how they hanging?
    — On piano vire from meathooks.
    — Heh! Choost a little choke zere.
    — Heh! I did it again.
    — Zo, Jorg, I hear zat Jorg Marshall who vas your Chief of Staff iz now your boss. I called to commiserate.
    — That’s very nice of you, Erwin. Thanks. It’s good to know who my friends really are at a time like this.

    nk (1d9030)

  147. LOL! Hillary Clinton and her campaign wanted to run against Donald Trump! How’d that work out for them?

    Not so well, but of much more importance is the fact that America dodged a bullet.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. Yes, that is the mindset, that the enemy is Hillary or the Democrats or Joe Biden, not Russia or China or the coronavirus, that Putin and Xi Jinping want you to have too.

    No, the mindset is that it’s racist, which will be the next card extracted from your caboose.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. Speaking of racist, in the old school Dixiecrat way: http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kentucky-gov-andy-beshear-apologizes-214321587.html

    urbanleftbehind (83eb0e)

  150. No, the mindset is that it’s racist, which will be the next card extracted from your caboose.

    I take it your school is closed and you’re missing the back and forth with the other seventh-graders, Haiku?

    nk (1d9030)

  151. The coranavirus is accused of being racist, and especially racist in Chicago. Democrats want something done about that.

    https://prospect.org/coronavirus/when-it-comes-to-covid-19-deaths-race-matters

    In the nation’s pandemic epicenter, New York City, black and Latino people die at about twice the rate of the total population. In Chicago, the disparity is even more dramatic: Black people account for about 70 percent of coronavirus deaths but make up roughly 30 percent of the city’s population.

    I think the reason is that somebody was spreading the word in Chicago that blacks were not affected by this, or that he whole thing was made up by the (white) media.

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/watch-live-chicago-mayor-to-hold-press-conference-on-new-data-on-spread-of-coronavirus/2251126/

    Data showed that among coronavirus deaths in Chicago where race or ethnicity were known, 72% were among black city residents, despite black Chicagoans being only 30% of the city’s overall population..”There was a rumor that African Americans were immune, and I hope people didn’t read that,” Gov. J.B. Pritzker said during his Monday briefing. “That was obviously false.

    Dies smebody actually know what was being printed in the black media in Chicago, maybe said on the radio, preached somewhere, or circulated by word of mouth?

    ….

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  152. Sammy, we had a guy right here, Make America Ordered Again, who claimed that the virus was designed to kill white people, and I assure you that he is the opposite of “black media”. Literally the opposite if you know what I mean, and I don’t think you do so I’ll tell you right now, but euphemistically: A white supremacist.

    nk (1d9030)

  153. It wasn’t so much as a single source, but a conjecture gathered from the fact that many of MAOAs fellow travelers remarked that the disease was, if not a white-targeting disease (some thought it could be the case that either China or Iran could be using the virus in this manner), an elite-infecting disease as in if you dont live on the north side/north suburbs of Chicago and you haven’t flown anyplace recently, you should be OK.

    That said, many of the goyper persuasion and more violent than that have encouraged followers to infect places where non-whites and Js congregate. I only give that credence because CV-19 infections did flip somewhat dramatically from those upper middle/wealthy elite networks almost completely to concentrations of minorities, but that could be just the fact that the minority populations are at the outermost edges f elite class superspreaders.

    urbanleftbehind (83eb0e)

  154. Our Windy City barrister missed the point:

    LOL! Hillary Clinton and her campaign wanted to run against Donald Trump! How’d that work out for them? :)

    Yes, that is the mindset, that the enemy is Hillary or the Democrats or Joe Biden, not Russia or China or the coronavirus, that Putin and Xi Jinping want you to have too.

    Actually, it was the lovely Mrs Clinton who was seeing her election opponents as her enemies . . . which, indeed, they were. Her ‘basket of deplorables’ and ‘why am I not fifty points ahead’ comments told us exactly what she thought of voters who did not support her.

    But yes, the Democrats are our enemies, the enemies of all decent Americans. Donald Trump might be a personal scumbag, but he’s not the one pushing an unrestricted abortion license up to the moment of delivery. Donald Trump may be venal and personally vile, but he’s not the one who can’t tell males from females. Donald Trump may be a complete and total [insert slang term for the rectum here], but he’s not the one trying to divide us on race or push reparations or set up separate systems of ‘justice’ for Americans based on what color they are or deny due process of law to male college students or impose socialized medicine or allow unrestricted illegal immigration.

    I get it: you, and most of the commenters here, and our host himself, despise President Trump. But the cost of your hatred of him is to also impose all of the policies that the Democrats would inflict on us.

    Will “At least we got rid of Trump” make you feel better when Medicare for All is passed?

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  155. All sorts of stuff gets circulated on “Black Twitter” that’s absolute nonsense, it seems. Like Bill Gates invented the virus so he could force everyone to be vaccinated. That vaccine trials would be a way to oppress blacks (no, I don’t how that would oppress them). For some reason, Ghadaffi is quoted as an authority.

    That’s just stuff I saw on my FB shared out by a co-worker of mine. OTOH, all the other blacks on my FB only post rational normal stuff.

    But the not nutty claim that is now being pushed on the MSM is that while it’s white folks who are protesting that we need to re-open [from what I can tell, not false: I have only seen one black person from all the clips and photos that have come my way], it would be black and brown folks dying [extrapolated from those statistics].

    Kishnevi (65c56e)

  156. Literally the opposite if you know what I mean, and I don’t think you do so I’ll tell you right now, but euphemistically: A white supremacist.

    Am I the only person here who noticed when MAOA suggested that we allied with the wring side in WWII? [He complained that we allied with the actual communists instead of the anti-communists.]

    Kishnevi (65c56e)

  157. The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/28/2020 @ 6:46 pm

    Egads, Dana. Your tread is heavy, and your stride mighty. I make way for you, lest roughshod run over me.

    felipe (023cc9)

  158. But the not nutty claim that is now being pushed on the MSM is that while it’s white folks who are protesting that we need to re-open [from what I can tell, not false: I have only seen one black person from all the clips and photos that have come my way], it would be black and brown folks dying [extrapolated from those statistics].

    It’s not just Black Twitter, you can see the conspiracy delusions here as well.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  159. Dana in Kentucky, well said.

    NJRob (115919)

  160. I get it: you, and most of the commenters here, and our host himself, despise President Trump. But the cost of your hatred of him is to also impose all of the policies that the Democrats would inflict on us.

    Will “At least we got rid of Trump” make you feel better when Medicare for All is passed?

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/28/2020 @ 6:46 pm

    I get where you’re coming from. In fact if you were to look at my comments in 2016, the potential for Trump to usher in a massive shift left was my main reason for opposing him.

    I disagree that our comments are so powerful that they will cause any real difference. If socialism hangs in the balance of my bending my knee to support Trump, I guess I’ll give it more thought. But there’s no real value in our conversations about this stuff. I just enjoy griping about politicians (and of course I am equal opportunity about it. I have little nice to say about Biden the creepy doddering loser).

    Trump is what he is and we should base our opinions of him on the truth, rather than some cynical calculation and binary choice. I urge partisans to consider just how much damage this binary choice mentality has done. That’s where the extremism and awful quality candidates are really coming from. Raise the bar. Tell the truth. Trump isn’t exactly doing an acceptable job, no matter what you think of also-ran Hillary.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  161. Our Windy City barrister missed the point:

    The rest of your comment shows that I did not. You confirmed everything I attributed to you, and in ten times more words, too.

    “Yay!”
    “Eh?”
    “Trump beat Hillary to car key!”
    “He drove the poor car into the lake!”
    “Hillary would have driven to the welfare office and the abortion clinic.”

    nk (1d9030)

  162. Kishnevi at 158:

    MAOA showed up here as Christoph around fifteen years ago, and kept getting banned and reappearing under new monikers. He had all sorts of kooky ideas about all sorts of things, and at some point, even before MoeLarryCurly, he drifted into the Stefan Molyneux/Richard B. Spencer/Vox Dei branch of neo-Nazism.

    nk (1d9030)

  163. But yes, the Democrats are our enemies, the enemies of all decent Americans.

    Those Democrats are also Americans. They’re our political opponents, not enemies, and this “enemies” attitude says quite a bit about why things are so polarized. It also says quite a bit that dictators like Xi and Putin are not our enemies, despite their consistent hostility to our country’s interests, yet Americans who have political views that differ from ours have this “enemy” status. It’s that attitude that brought us Trump, that his supporters have to look past all his corruption, dishonesty and unfitness, just to stick it to a cast of boogeymen.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  164. Dana in Kentucky is the commenter who once said that people dying in the street because they couldn’t afford health care was morally acceptable.

    There are in fact a few things Dana in Kentucky has said over time that signal to me his moral compass has gone rather out of whack, and has fallen into the frame of mind called altruistic evil. He is so afraid of some evil things happening he condones other evils to avoid them, but forgets that evil means never result in good ends, and righteousness is never obtained by acting unrighteously.

    The fact is that our political system has given us a political elite that is not worthy of anyone’s support, and the true solution is not to support one side in the vague hope of them being more acceptable, but to reject both sides. It’s only when enough people reject both sides that anything might happen to improve the situation.

    Now, if you excuse me, I need to figure out how to get down from this high horse I find myself on.

    Kishnevi (65c56e)

  165. If you have found a way to align your goals with a monster like Putin, over most of the voters in your own country, all of whom just want a peaceful safe life for their families and are more or less the same as you, something is indeed rather out of whack.

    I don’t like it when everyone craps on one guy though and Dana 2 is fun to read. I prefer to point out how both parties suffer from this problem, how we all have to deal with the other side’s losers sometimes, and if we could just speak plainly instead it’s not as much work, which is nice. Hillary? Sucks. Biden? Sucks. Trump? Sucks.

    Dustin (e5f6c3)

  166. Dana in K-Y also is ignorant of the fact that Hellary won the popular vote, the Deemocrats hold the House, and every concept that conservatives held as important has been made crap by the reign of the Thug in the Oval Office.

    There’s no “may be” or “might be”. T-rump simply is, was, and will be a terrible person and the worst POTUS in history.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  167. Hillary clinton endorsement means nothing as clinton haters were bernie fans.

    asset (c401fb)

  168. I have a lot of affection and respect for the many-titled Dana as well. We go back a long way.

    nk (1d9030)

  169. From the Washington Post, quoted by Dana:

    Biden has done several interviews since the assault allegations emerged but has yet to be asked about them. It has, however, been a topic for other top Democrats, including some of his potential running mates.

    104. Dana (0feb77) — 4/27/2020 @ 10:50 pm

    And why is that, Washington Post??? Why have no major media outlets, whether print media or cable news shows, asked him directly about the allegations, Washington Post??

    It’s unbelievable that the WaPo actually printed this observation.

    They have to say that in order to explain why a response by Biden to the allegation by Biden is not quoted in the story. He simply didn’t say anything about it, and he wasn’t asked either.

    The Wahington Post also is explaining why it’s writing a story about something that could be politically motivated slander. One reason would be that some top Democrats have mentioned it.

    As nk says: If this is not Russian interference in the election, to help Trump, nothing is.

    Now I don’t think this is exclusively Russian, and you don’t need Russians to make the mistake about the missing belt and pantyhose (that she would have been unlikely to be wearing clothes in which what she says happened could have happened so simply.)

    There are probably American lawyers involved. (in fact it would be hard to believe that she’s not doing certain things without the advice of a so-far unknown or not widely known, lawyer, who’s probably not representing her out of the goodness of his or her heart.

    Some lawyers are good at finding “witnesses” to almost any allegation. Tara Reade probably had at least 150 – and maybe more – casual acquaintances. It would not be too hard for such a lawyer to find two or three people, who had credible contact with Tara Reade in the 1990s – to sort of back up her story. (of course this might mean that some others were approached to lie on er behalf ad declined) And sometimes close relatives can be motivated not to undermine her.

    Somebody found her mother’s call – but her mother’s call actually strongly suggests that Biden himself was not involved in whatever trouble she told her mother that she had at his office. That doesn’t matter – it doesn’t prevent the spin that it does. Most people don’t pay enough attention.

    I wonder if the spin would be undermined even more by something Tara Reade’s mother said after the beginning of the call, so I’d like to know if the remainder of the call to the Larry King show is available somewhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)

  170. Mr nevi wrote:

    Dana in Kentucky is the commenter who once said that people dying in the street because they couldn’t afford health care was morally acceptable.

    Actually, what I said was that if you oppose universal health care coverage, you are concomitantly saying that you are willing to see those who cannot pay for it die in the streets due to their inability to pay for it. I am willing to say that, fully aware of all of the implications of that statement, and I asked who else was willing to do so.

    And I will say it again, in exactly those words. Most here have been opposed to universal health care coverage or any other form of socialized medicine, but I have yet to see anyone else state that they admit to understanding exactly what that means.

    Am I an [insert slang term for the rectum here]? Yes, I absotively, positlutely am! And I admit it.

    The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1)

  171. When they say “universal” health care coverage, they mean only on Earth in actuality, if that’s what’s bothering you.

    nk (1d9030)

  172. 172, The Dana in Kentucky (a2adc1) — 4/29/2020 @ 7:54 am

    Actually, what I said was that if you oppose universal health care coverage, you are concomitantly saying that you are willing to see those who cannot pay for it die in the streets due to their inability to pay for it..

    Your premise is wrong.

    I think Ronald Reagan oposed universal health insurance, but he also opposed letting people die in the streets, and even signed a bill in 1986 prohibiting any hospitals taking Medicare from refusing to treat pregnant women about to give birth (special attention was given to them because of “Right to Life” considerations) or other emergency cases.

    https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA

    Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA)

    In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual’s ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

    This obligation applies also to illegal immigrants.

    Sammy Finkelman (af3697)


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