Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Are you, like me, starting to lose track of the days, and even the time? I forget how long we’ve been on stay-at-home orders. Some days it feels like forever, then, on other days, it feels like something new… The possibility of a loved one becoming ill seems an ever-present concern lingering at the edges of daily life. Enough to be distracting, yet not enough to qualify as worry. I think that’s striking a reasonable balance during such an unreasonable season.
Anyway, let’s get on with it.
First news item
God does *not* need us to assemble to celebrate the resurrection of Christ. “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.” Fools, everyone one of them:
[A] Louisiana pastor says his church near Baton Rouge is expecting a crowd of 2,000 or more despite federal coronavirus guidance advising social distancing.
“Satan and a virus will not stop us,” Rev. Tony Spell told Reuters. “God will shield us from all harm and sickness. We are not afraid. We are called by God to stand against the Antichrist creeping into America’s borders. We will spread the Gospel.”
Second news item
Q: What authority do you have to re-open the states? TRUMP: “I have great authority…absolute authority…
Here's Trump claiming (falsely) that he has "absolute authority" to reopen the economy pic.twitter.com/LKn2w8EY5l
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) April 10, 2020
Third news item
A matter of competing interests:
The United States was on track on Saturday to surpass Italy in the total number of confirmed deaths from the coronavirus, reaching its deadliest day on Friday with 2,057 deaths.
Already the pandemic has killed more than 18,000 Americans and put more than 16 million out of work, forcing President Trump into the difficult choice of reopening the country as the country reels economically from the coronavirus pandemic.
“I’m going to have to make a decision, and I only hope to God that it’s the right decision,” Mr. Trump said on Friday in his daily news briefing on the coronavirus. The country’s death toll, which has more than doubled over the past week, is now increasing by nearly 2,000 most days. The previous high in the United States was 1,997 on April 7. As of Saturday morning, Italy had reported 18,849 deaths.
As Mr. Trump grapples simultaneously with the most devastating public health and economic crises of a lifetime, he finds himself pulled in opposite directions. Bankers, corporate executives and industrialists are pleading with him to reopen the country as soon as possible, while medical experts beg for more time to curb the coronavirus.
Fourth news item
U.S. governors are urging Congress to give states $500 billion in “stabilization funding” to meet budget shortfalls resulting from their efforts to stem the spread of coronavirus.
Maryland’s Larry Hogan and New York’s Andrew Cuomo said in a statement on Saturday that the state-at-home orders… hurt states’ economies…
“To stabilize state budgets and to make sure states have the resources to battle the virus and provide the services the American people rely on, Congress must provide immediate fiscal assistance directly to all states,” the pair said.
Hogan and Cuomo said Congress should appropriate an additional $500 billion for all states and territories.
Fifth news item
Good government begins with self-government. Read the whole thing:
I want to know: What definition of “greatness” are they working from that arouses their ire? What, precisely, is the contradiction they are implying but not articulating? What standard of greatness are we falling short of?
…
What bothers me about the assumption here—echoed all over the place—is that the measure of a nation’s greatness resides in its technocratic expertise and its ability to centrally plan the provision of material stuff for citizens. For more than 20 years now, I’ve been peeing from a great height—ironically often from my basement office—on virtually all of the ideas embedded in this assumption. Tom Friedman’s envy of China’s authoritarianism, the progressive fixation on planning, positive liberty, the knowledge problem, etc. But I won’t descend down those rabbit holes here.
Again, I’d like a competent government as much as the next guy—if the next guy wants it a lot. But competent government is really a small part of what my understanding of greatness includes. And my definition of what a competent government looks like is very different than that of people who grow tumescent at the idea of America being “China for a day.”
..,
American greatness is all over the place right now. The people doing small acts of kindness, the people making masks and sending meals for health care workers, the people voluntarily staying put when staying put has enormous consequences, the countless corporations and universities dropping everything to work on ventilators, masks, vaccines, tests, etc., and the countless charity groups and voluntary associations leaping into the fray: These are examples of American greatness.
Sixth news item
Showboaters, consider yourselves warned:
Some sports are slower. More about the strategy. pic.twitter.com/JMBaGJ1tSd
— Andrew Cotter (@MrAndrewCotter) April 9, 2020
FYI: Andrea Bocelli will be performing an Easter concert live from Duomo Cathedral in Milan. You can watch the live streaming of it here.
Keep each other in your good thoughts and prayers. And for those of the faith: He is Risen, indeed!
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:46 amHi Dana!
Dave (1bb933) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:49 am“The way it was”… 50 years ago today, April 11, 1970, in the age of Aquarius, the Odyssey began:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Cv5VBjH4M
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:51 amIn B4 DeezyEska:
Experience the Apollo 13 mission in real-time during its 50th anniversary
Dave (1bb933) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:55 amD’oh!
Dave (1bb933) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:55 amIn Democracy in America, Alexis De Tocqueville notes how, when a wagon overturns and blocks a road, Americans don’t wait for the authorities to show up—the way they do “in the most civilized nations on the globe.” Americans just rolled up their sleeves without waiting for permission. “The inhabitant of the United States,” he writes, “learns from birth that he must rely on himself to combat the ills and trials of life. He is restless and defiant in his outlook toward authority and appeals to its power only when he cannot do without it.” At the same time, however, when some “unforeseen misfortune strike a family, the purses of a thousand strangers open up without trouble; modest but very numerous gifts come to its assistance in its misery.”
I’m the first to lament that this version of America has deteriorated somewhat. But I think it’s still there. And if I were to campaign on making America great again, figuring out how to restore that conception of American greatness would be front and center, not some bumper sticker notion of greatness being delivered by a politician promising, “I alone can fix it.”
Jonah Goldberg is a national treasure.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:01 amIn these partisan times, I like to ask people: imagine in November, you have to pick a candidate for the Democrats and a candidate for the Republicans. They BOTH have to be people you respect, and who could do a honorable job, even if you disagree with their policies.
Who would you choose for both?
No fair saying “nobody” for the other party, or for both.
What do people think?
Simon Jester (6067ca) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:08 am“Like any zealot or like any pure religious person, death looks to them like a welcome friend. True Christians do not mind dying. They fear living in fear,” Spell told TMZ in an interview this week.
…and he’s going to give it to them, good and hard!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:11 amDana, since I now live at #TaterTot central, this made me laugh. Best wishes to you and your family.
https://youtu.be/Y7MbhGxcpnQ
Simon Jester (6067ca) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:15 amHere’s Trump claiming (falsely) that he has “absolute authority” to reopen the economy
I think, to be fair, he said he had authority to impose a stay-at-home order. But it’s just the other side of the same coin.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:19 amSimon Jester,
I love Tater Tot!
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:22 amQuarantine Day 5: Went to this restaurant called THE KITCHEN. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place is still in business…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:22 amA PSA: Every few days, try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pajamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:23 amHmm… Thinking…
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:24 amSeen in the Classifieds… “Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:25 amOn the Republican side, I’m at the anyone-but-Trump point (which is rash, of course, and could lead to a disastrous candidate, but not anywhere near as disastrous as Trump). On the Democrat side, I find Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema insteresting. She seems to walk her own independent path.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:31 am7. For the right Amish, Cotton, Romney, Sasse, Sessions, Cruz, Jindal, Walker, Fiorna, Haley in no particular order
For the left Jim Webb
That isn’t exhaustive, but it’s all that come to mind.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:38 amWe’re all f*cked.
Paul Montagu (f57f23) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:45 amThank you. I always liked Jindal and Haley. I mean, the best “R” person, honestly, was Mitch Daniels…but he chose his family over the Inquistion of the Left as a candidate.
The other side? I always like Bill Nelson.
But the mudslinging will be awful.
Simon Jester (6067ca) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:49 amYep. Notice how little support the Dem governors (Inslee, Hickenlooper and Bullock) received. I would’ve strongly considered any of those three, all of whom are generally competent with command experience. Instead, we were given Decrepit and Decrepiter for the top two.
Paul Montagu (f57f23) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:54 amInslee had been my dark horse for the Ds but he stumbled out of the gate pinning himself as the Climate Change candidate. Something in the Carolina water to the point I’d take a redneck ecomonic populist like Hawley or Cotton over mercantilist Haley, Meadows, Graham, Burr, Scott et al
urbanleftbehind (3672c3) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:02 amCNN was posting viewer-tweeted questions on the crawl of their virus town hall:
“Is Stage-4 TDS considered an underlying morbidity?”
harkin (b64479) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:03 am_
CNN was posting viewer-tweeted questions on the crawl of their virus town hall:
“Is Stage-4 Tee Dee Ess considered an underlying morbidity?”
_
So are the letters that result in ‘tee dee ess’ now automatically moderated?
harkin (b64479) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:06 am_
Sorry, but I’m not going to accept a ..half..a…quote…from….Trump… without…any… other…words…as…meaning…anything.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:08 amTrump says “Absolute authority” what did he say before these two words? What was the context? In answer to what question? I don’t trust trump haters, the media, or left-wingers to quote him accurately on ANYTHING.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:10 amOne or two spaces after a period? It may be a generational thing.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:13 amhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/steeles-russian-disinformation.php
Clear as day.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:14 amOne or two spaces after a period?
I still use two but the word-processing program does not always agree. This one among them.
nk (1d9030) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:19 amBrian Stelter
@brianstelter
Admin officials “say the White House has made a deliberate political calculation that it will better serve Trump’s interest to put the onus on governors — rather than the federal government — to figure out how to move ahead.”
Let that quote sink in…
__ _
Mollie
@MZHemingway
·
Replying to
@brianstelter
Yes, the U.S. Constitution is a hundreds-year-long plot to help Trump win re-election. Excellent take. Also, it’s not a “quote” but an unsupported assertion based on reporters’ dubious and unverifiable interpretation of what they claim anon sources told them.
__ _
The Partyman
@PartymanRandy
.
Brian has blown the lid off this “basic structure of the US government” scandal.
___ _
China is lying
harkin (b64479) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:21 am@jtLOL
·
Alexa, define “United States”
_
24. Watch the video. Jeeze…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:23 amSimon,
I would pick Governor Cuomo for the Ds because I think he is someone the Ds might pick who would be able to unite their voters. He would not be my choice but I am not a Democrat. I would pick Trump for the Rs because the GOP wants him. He also would not be my pick.
If you mean who would I pick as an Independent, I could vote for Texas Gov Abbott (R) or Montana Gov Bullock (D).
DRJ (15874d) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:27 amSimon,
I’d probably say Michelle Lujan Grisham for the Dems, and (ironically enough) Mitt Romney for the GOP.
Leviticus (c68ea0) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:29 amTrump and puffery. Just like his press conferences.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:30 amThe first person in the Boston telephone book for the Rs and the second person for the Ds.
nk (1d9030) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:44 amThe funny thing is both of your links used one space.
Paul Montagu (8069b4) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:45 amTwo spaces made sense when we all used Courier, but no longer.
Dana, if you’re going to link to Jonah (and I heartily approve), then I might as well link to French. Bottom line, it’s not an either-or thing about re-starting the economy versus staying hunkered down, and Trump does not have “absolute authority” to reopen things.
De Blasio should never be in elective office for anything ever again.
Paul Montagu (8069b4) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:07 pmI moved high schools between Junior and Senior year, the biggest change was between APA and MLA grammar.
Then came the internet and texting which ruined all of that.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:08 pmThe left is easy. Michael Bennet, my original first choice among the the D presidential candidates. His career has demonstrated success in a wide variety of very different endeavours in and outside of government, with the common thread of being able to recognize realistic good ideas and work with competing factions to direct and achieve results. His one failure in that is, alas, the Senate. But I don’t hold that against him (and you should look up some of his ideas to fix the Senate).
On the right, I’d have to go with the obvious—Mitt Romney. Shares some of the same characteristics, and therefore same rationale, as Bennet.
Purple Martin (34703c) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:13 pm@24-
From the White House transcript:
……..
Q Let me ask you about that, if I can, just to follow up then. You chose not to do a national stay-at-home order. Now that you say you want to reopen parts of the economy, what authority do you have to do that? Isn’t that ultimately up to the states to do that?
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. Yeah — no, it’s really — the states can do things if they want. I can override it if I want. But the national stay-at-home — just so you understand, 95 percent of the country is stay-at-home.
Like, as an example, I was speaking with the great governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, the other day. He has a stay-at-home. A lot of people didn’t even know it, but he had a stay-at -home. Some people reported Texas wasn’t. He had a very strong — actually, a very strong stay-at-home.
Ninety-five to ninety-six percent in South Carolina, as you know, has it, which at one point, a week ago, they didn’t have. South Carolina — another great governor — McMaster.
No, 95 percent of the country is covered. Now, the states that aren’t — and again, constitutionally, from a federalist standpoint, if I thought there was a problem, if I saw a state with a problem, I would absolutely demand it. But they’re doing great. And the states that aren’t are states that have not had a big problem.
Q What authority do you have to reopen right now? The same way that it’s up to the states to shut it down, it’s up to them to reopen. What authority do you have?
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, I have —I have great authority if I want to use it. I would rather have the states use it. I would rather —
Q What does that look like?
THE PRESIDENT: And this is so shocking for me. A lot of people are saying, “Wow, he’s really very reasoned, isn’t he?” A lot of people are shocked. They think I do a — I have absolute authority to use it. But, so far, our relationship with governors and the job they’re doing, I haven’t had to do it. Would I do it if I saw a state that was out of control and they didn’t have the stay-at-home policy? I would do it in a heartbeat.
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:21 pmWhat a Drumpfelschnitzel!
nk (1d9030) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:31 pmIn the last week or so, I’ve mentioned a long-time friend who was on a ventelator in Chicago (Peoria, actually, Chicago was full). The lived in a multi-generational household with her husband, mother and her 30yo son.
Her mother passed on Tuesday. Her husband was released from hospital a few days ago. But my friend passed this morning. I will miss her terribly.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:33 pmThere are fifty state attorneys general and more than 3,000 county or county-equivalent prosecutors who might not have a policy against indicting a sitting President for murder and treason.
nk (1d9030) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:36 pmLots of Americans will face grief they hadn’t anticipated. Sorry about your friend, Kevin. I hope that loss is the end of it for you.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:37 pmGosh, I’m so sorry to hear that, Kevin M. My condolences.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:39 pmSorry about your friend, Kevin, and her mother.
Paul Montagu (0073cc) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:40 pmThe Most Important 2020 States Already Have Vote by Mail
….In the states that will likely decide the 2020 presidential election, Donald Trump has already lost his newly declared war against voting by mail.
All six of the swing states that both sides see as the most probable tipping points allow their residents to vote by mail for any reason, and there’s virtually no chance that any of them will retrench their existing laws this year. That means that, however much Trump rages, the legal structure is in place for a mail-voting surge in those decisive states: Florida, North Carolina, and Arizona in the Sun Belt and Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in the Rust Belt.
……..
his mid-pandemic debate about voting by mail is muddied, in part, because Trump has been so unclear about exactly what form he objects to. All states allow one of three types.
Five states, the smallest grouping, are “all mail” states: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, and, starting this year, Hawaii. There, all eligible voters are mailed a ballot to their home. (California allows its counties to use such a system, but has not yet applied it statewide.) These states preserve some in-person options on Election Day, but in those that used this system in 2018, at least 90 percent of voters cast their ballot by mail.
The largest group is the 28 states that allow for “no excuse,” or “no fault,” mail balloting. The procedure still adds one hurdle: Voters must affirmatively request a ballot. But some states in this cohort, such as Arizona, do allow residents to join a list that automatically receives absentee ballots for every election.
The final group, 17 states, allows voters to obtain a mail ballot only for cause. According to the database maintained by the National Conference of State Legislatures, eligible causes include age (about half of the states allow older voters to obtain mail-in ballots on request) and studying at college outside of one’s home county (also a justifiable reason in roughly half of the states). All 17 also allow residents to request mail ballots because of illness or disability, a provision that could allow for broader access this fall. But it could also prompt extensive legal fights if election officials resist interpreting such provisions to include the coronavirus outbreak.
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:42 pm…….
The irony in the president’s new offensive is that in many of the no-excuse states, Republicans have historically outpaced Democrats in organizing their supporters, especially older white voters, to vote by mail.
……..
So sorry for your loss, Kevin. That is awful.
Leviticus (c68ea0) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:42 pmRip Murdock @ 38,
Thanks for posting the transcript of Trump’s comments. I thought about doing it, but then I thought if 24 were really that concerned, he would have googled them himself.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:45 pmLots of Americans will face grief they hadn’t anticipated. Sorry about your friend, Kevin. I hope that loss is the end of it for you.
I was in a (virtual) board meeting in later February with her and the other trustees of our NGO. Someone remarked that we would all know someone who died from this, and we all nodded our heads, knowing it was true.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:45 pmPaul Montagu,
That’s a great piece by David French, and one that Trump would be wise to read.
Both Goldberg and French are national treasures. They are both reminders that, in the time of Trump, there remain solid, and sound conservative thinkers.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:49 pmTrump Has Emergency Powers We Aren’t Allowed to Know About
…… When President Trump declared emergencies on March 13 under both the Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act, he boasted, “I have the right to do a lot of things that people don’t even know about.”
The president is right. Some of the most potent emergency powers at his disposal are likely ones we can’t know about, because they are not contained in any publicly available laws. Instead, they are set forth in classified documents known as “presidential emergency action documents.”
These documents consist of draft proclamations, executive orders and proposals for legislation that can be quickly deployed to assert broad presidential authority in a range of worst-case scenarios. They are one of the government’s best-kept secrets. No presidential emergency action document has ever been released or even leaked. And it appears that none has ever been invoked.
……
Presidential emergency action documents emerged during the Eisenhower administration as a set of plans to provide for continuity of government after a Soviet nuclear attack. Over time, they were expanded to include proposed responses to other types of emergencies. As described in one declassified government memorandum, they are designed “to implement extraordinary presidential authority in response to extraordinary situations.”
Other government documents have revealed some of the actions that older presidential emergency action documents — those issued up through the 1970s — purported to authorize. These include suspension of habeas corpus by the president (not by Congress, as assigned in the Constitution), detention of United States citizens who are suspected of being “subversives,” warrantless searches and seizures and the imposition of martial law.
…….
There is no question that presidential emergency action documents could be used in a pandemic like that caused by the coronavirus. A 2006 Nuclear Regulatory Commission memorandum addressed that agency’s plan under President Bush’s 2005 “National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza.” The concern was how to maintain operations in response to a pandemic that proved to be “persistent, widespread, and prolonged.” The memo’s authors offered the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 14 bullet points of actions, including to “review presidential emergency action documents” and “select those most likely to be needed” by the commission.
……..
…….. The coronavirus pandemic is fast becoming the most serious crisis to face this country since World War II. And it is happening under the watch of a president who has claimed that Article II of the Constitution gives him “the right to do whatever I want.” It is not far-fetched to think that we might see the deployment of these documents for the first time and that they will assert presidential powers beyond those granted by Congress or recognized by the courts as flowing from the Constitution.
Even in the most dire of emergencies, the president of the United States should not be able to operate free from constitutional checks and balances. The coronavirus crisis should serve as a wake-up call. Presidential emergency action documents have managed to escape democratic oversight for nearly 70 years……
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:51 pm@6 There are thousands (pos millions) of Americas sewing masks for themselves and their friends and for emergency responders and hospitals. I don’t think the spirit is gone.
@40 I’m very sorry, Kevin.
Nic (896fdf) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:54 pmDana @47-
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/11/2020 @ 12:55 pmIn light of my post on presidential emergency action documents (@50), Trump is probably right.
I am very sorry about your friend, Kevin M. That is hard.
Patterico (115b1f) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:01 pmBill Maher getting something right and explaining it to the ‘don’t you dare call it Chinese Virus’ knobs:
https://youtu.be/dEfDwc2G2_8
harkin (b64479) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:10 pm_
51. Yes, as J. Goldberg says beautifully. You really should read the whole piece.
Just as an aside, the week before this he came out in favor of a (several?) ticker-tape parade(s) to honor the Americans who are performing heroically…which is a bunch.
Not to take anything away from the queen, but he beat her to it.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:25 pmKevin M, that’s awful news. I’m sorry for your loss.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:27 pm>Yep. Notice how little support the Dem governors (Inslee, Hickenlooper and Bullock) received. I would’ve strongly considered any of those three, all of whom are generally competent with command experience. Instead, we were given Decrepit and Decrepiter for the top two.
Inslee and Hickenlooper have a curious lack of charisma and remind me a lot of Dukakis. I don’t remember Bullock at all.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:38 pm>I would pick Governor Cuomo for the Ds because I think he is someone the Ds might pick who would be able to unite their voters
Anyone of the left who knows about Cuomo has a vague distaste and dislike for him; yeah, his work on gay marriage was great, but he’s generally considered a corporatist who cares about wall street and upstate landlords rather than working class people, minorities, or the environment. In a normal year he couldn’t win a primary.
But he’s coming across as super competent right now, and in the world where Biden dies and is replaced at the convention, he might be a good choice — the left will fall in line because he seems super competent and he could pick up disaffected non-democrats who are furious at the administration’s handling of the situation.
I could also see Newsom, but since he isn’t getting as much press his reputation for competence outside of California isn’t as great and California has a lot of baggage.
I *really* wish the right would dump Trump and replace him with either deWine or Hawley.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:44 pmNew studies in the US are pegging the R0 for CVat 5.7, the original presumption was 2.2. If it’s 5+, then testing is even more important. If reinfection ends up actually possible, as some preliminary work from South Korea is finding. Our social distancing and isolation will be in place for a looonggg time.
I think NYC might be an outlier with it’s significantly higher density than most of the rest of the country. The good news is that many more people may have had the mild case so mortality may end up at around .8% for well cared for patients. But if its 2-3 times more contagious, then the difference in a 3% fatality at an R0=2.2, equals the same number of deaths, again, in a well cared for patient. If we relax the restrictions, we may not see the well cared for part. Rural America is not equipped to take care of even a tiny outbreak.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:45 pmLink
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:45 pm@40. I’m so very, very, sorry to read that, Kevin. When the ‘abstract’ – the ‘statistic’- becomes flesh-and-blood-real and hits so closely home, the anguish aches– and angers. The biotech firm my nephew is at is feverishly working on quicker tests and a vaccine. Keep faith.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:46 pmI am sorry for your loss, Kevin. Facing grief is worse than fearing it might happen.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:50 pm@6. ‘I’m the first to lament that this version of America has deteriorated somewhat.’
Yes and his kind fueled and accelerated it: Reaganomics. Jonah Goldberg is mere costume jewelry; charged to Uncle Sam’s credit card.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 1:55 pm@7. The team that’s looks good and communicates best on television. That’s all that matters in 21st century America:
Winfrey/Cuomo vs., Trump/Haley. Completes the neutering of the modern conservative movement so either way, a win.
Glorious times.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:04 pmThanks, guys. I need to feel not alone right now. I hope everyone is well, we are here, so far.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:18 pmComparing US deaths to Italy’s doesn’t seem reasonable. We have 5 times the population, so an equivalent total would be over 90,000. Despite my personal pain (and that of many others), we have not effed up that badly and likely won’t. I’m glad that it wasn’t the laissez faire million they had been talking about.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:22 pm> Comparing US deaths to Italy’s doesn’t seem reasonable.
i’ve been relying on a site that does log graphs of:
* number of cases graphed vs days since we had 100 cases
* number of cases per million people graphed vs days since we had 1 case per million people
on the latter graph our trajectory is *exactly the same* as italy’s, we’re just two weeks behind.
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
aphrael (7962af) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:26 pmharkin @54,
That Bill Maher video is comedy gold! I love the garden statue of Mao in the background!
norcal (a5428a) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:36 pmThere are thousands (pos millions) of Americas sewing masks for themselves and their friends and for emergency responders and hospitals. I don’t think the spirit is gone.
Yes, kids collected pots, pans and tin foil from chewing gum as morale builders in WW2 and they used books as pillow at Gettysburg, too. Home-sewn masks, of course, is yet another pathetic piece of reality from an aging 20th century superpower that needs to keep telling itself it is “great” in spite of misplaced priorities and glaring evidence piling up in various venues every year to the contrary. Yes, it buys $15 billion aircraft carriers on credit that can be sunk by $2 million missiles but when they slow to a dead stop as crews get sick, desperate for $2 masks they don’t have: Reaganomics.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 2:41 pmDRJ (15874d) — 4/11/2020 @ 11:13 am
One or two spaces? I’d been using two spaces since I learned touch typing in high school. Then about a year or two ago, I began receiving complaints from people to whom I had sent email. The complaints were that my sentences were littered with question marks. Such as
After much googling about character encodings and email clients, I gave up and have been endeavoring to use a single space ever since. But as you can see, it’s a hard habit to break!
JoeH (f94276) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:01 pmCondolences, Kevin.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:06 pmHe Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus
……. Throughout January, as Mr. Trump repeatedly played down the seriousness of the virus and focused on other issues, an array of figures inside his government — from top White House advisers to experts deep in the cabinet departments and intelligence agencies — identified the threat, sounded alarms and made clear the need for aggressive action.
The president, though, was slow to absorb the scale of the risk and to act accordingly, focusing instead on controlling the message, protecting gains in the economy and batting away warnings from senior officials. It was a problem, he said, that had come out of nowhere and could not have been foreseen.
……
Unfolding as it did in the wake of his impeachment by the House and in the midst of his Senate trial, Mr. Trump’s response was colored by his suspicion of and disdain for what he viewed as the “Deep State” — the very people in his government whose expertise and long experience might have guided him more quickly toward steps that would slow the virus, and likely save lives.
……..
But dozens of interviews with current and former officials and a review of emails and other records revealed many previously unreported details and a fuller picture of the roots and extent of his halting response as the deadly virus spread:
The National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics received intelligence reports in early January predicting the spread of the virus to the United States, and within weeks was raising options like keeping Americans home from work and shutting down cities the size of Chicago. Mr. Trump would avoid such steps until March.
Despite Mr. Trump’s denial weeks later, he was told at the time about a Jan. 29 memo produced by his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, laying out in striking detail the potential risks of a coronavirus pandemic: as many as half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses.
The health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, directly warned Mr. Trump of the possibility of a pandemic during a call on Jan. 30, the second warning he delivered to the president about the virus in two weeks. The president, who was on Air Force One while traveling for appearances in the Midwest, responded that Mr. Azar was being alarmist.
Mr. Azar publicly announced in February that the government was establishing a “surveillance” system in five American cities to measure the spread of the virus and enable experts to project the next hot spots. It was delayed for weeks. The slow start of that plan, on top of the well-documented failures to develop the nation’s testing capacity, left administration officials with almost no insight into how rapidly the virus was spreading. “We were flying the plane with no instruments,” one official said.
By the third week in February, the administration’s top public health experts concluded they should recommend to Mr. Trump a new approach that would include warning the American people of the risks and urging steps like social distancing and staying home from work. But the White House focused instead on messaging and crucial additional weeks went by before their views were reluctantly accepted by the president — time when the virus spread largely unimpeded.
When Mr. Trump finally agreed in mid-March to recommend social distancing across the country, effectively bringing much of the economy to a halt, he seemed shellshocked and deflated to some of his closest associates. One described him as “subdued” and “baffled” by how the crisis had played out. An economy that he had wagered his re-election on was suddenly in shambles.
…….
The Containment Illusion
By the last week of February, it was clear to the administration’s public health team that schools and businesses in hot spots would have to close. But in the turbulence of the Trump White House, it took three more weeks to persuade the president that failure to act quickly to control the spread of the virus would have dire consequences.
……
The China Factor
The earliest warnings about coronavirus got caught in the crosscurrents of the administration’s internal disputes over China. It was the China hawks who pushed earliest for a travel ban. But their animosity toward China also undercut hopes for a more cooperative approach by the world’s two leading powers to a global crisis.
……….
The Consequences of Chaos
The chaotic culture of the Trump White House contributed to the crisis. A lack of planning and a failure to execute, combined with the president’s focus on the news cycle and his preference for following his gut rather than the data cost time, and perhaps lives.
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:11 pm…….
Condolences, Kevin M
Simon Jester (6067ca) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:12 pmI’m sorry to hear about your friend, Kevin. It’s much more real when it happens to someone you know.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:17 pmMy condolences as well, Kevin M.
JoeH (f94276) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:38 pmMy condolences Kevin.
NJRob (1b2aa6) — 4/11/2020 @ 3:45 pmKevin, I’m sorry.
Dustin (a65e91) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:04 pmAnd my condolencestoo, Kevin.
Kishnevi (0cb353) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:06 pmReaganomics
I think the budget sequestration had a lot more to do with our current state of readiness than anything done or not done by a President who’s been out of office for over 30 years.
Kishnevi (0cb353) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:10 pmMy condolences, Kevin.
urbanleftbehind (3672c3) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:34 pmMy condolences for your friend, Kevin.
nk (1d9030) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:34 pmTed Cruz – R
mg (8cbc69) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:55 pmJosh Hawley-R
Victor Davis Hanson – D
Tulsi-D
Sorry for the loss, Kevin M.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:57 pmStay safe.
My condolences to you, Kevin. As we get older, the loss of friends and family becomes more a part of our reality. That doesn’t lessen the pain of losing those we hold dear. Best wishes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/11/2020 @ 4:59 pmKevin, be assured of my prayers for you, and for the repose of those you lost. Please accept the spiritual closeness of my family to yours. Let us, all, pray for one another; bearing with one another, as we wait in joyful hope of hearing the words:
felipe (023cc9) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:00 pmThe quote above was my paraphrase of an ancient Homily for Holy Saturday.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:05 pmVDH or Mickey Kaus would be the official “Devils Advocate” of my White House.
urbanleftbehind (3672c3) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:21 pm@80. I think the budget sequestration had a lot more to do with our current state of readiness than anything done or not done by a President who’s been out of office for over 30 years.
Nice try.
Our Captain hired a supply-side-club-for-growth-TeeVee-navigator who follows the Laffer curve through choppy seas and was banished from Wall Street to cable-business-news because of his $100,000/month cocaine habit. What could go wrong?
How many times do you have to be smacked in the forehead to realize it hurts:
S&Ls, banks, Goldman-Sacks-type-Wall St. firms, automakers, airlines, DoD contractors, tourist cruise lines, lunchwagons, bars, and etc., etc., etc. The catalysts vary, but the swift, cascading disasters are going to happen repeatedly every decade or so and honest people know exactly how to describe this: some learn the hard way, others never learn at all: deregulation then, bailouts now; Reaganomics.
‘Ronald Reagan rarely catches any blame these days for the present economic mess that is destabilizing markets in the United States and around the world. In fact, Americans often praise the former president for taking the country in bold new directions during his years in the White House. Politicians contribute to this love-fest by naming schools and roads after the iconic president.
These admirers rarely acknowledge how central Reagan’s ideas are to the market difficulties troubling us today. As the country’s greatest modern champion of deregulation, perhaps Ronald Reagan contributed more to today’s unstable business climate than any other American. His long-standing campaign against the role of government in American life, a crusade he often stretched to extremes, produced conditions that ultimately proved bad for business… Economist Milton Friedman served as [Reaganomics] principal philosopher and Newt Gingrich was a leading advocate in Congress.’ -source, https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/53527
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:23 pm@83. Tedtoo; 14 minutes past Christie. Haley; clock’s tickin’–coming up on the top of the hour;
Tulci– Kerry could windsurf, too, but JVW insists she’s a looker.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:28 pmdOpra Winfrey needs smelling salts, DCSCA.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:54 pmSpeaking of which (just FF to about the 3.30 mark and watch until end):
urbanleftbehind (3672c3) — 4/11/2020 @ 6:20 pmhttp://youtu.be/nxrKA_MQxO0
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 5:23 pm
So COVID19 resulted from deregulation?
Kishnevi (2c05aa) — 4/11/2020 @ 6:22 pm@93. nice try.
The catalysts vary, but these swift, cascading disasters are going to happen repeatedly every decade or so and honest people know exactly how to describe this: some learn the hard way, others never learn at all: deregulation then, bailouts now; Reaganomics.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 6:36 pmYou seem to never learn at all. How exactly did Reaganomics cause the economic results of COVID19? And don’t bother quoting Krugman, who seemed to have started your little meme back in 2009.
Kishnevi (2c05aa) — 4/11/2020 @ 6:45 pmNot that I’d get too worked up over this, but it looks like the nation’s largest theater chain is in boiling-hot water over this forced shut-down.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:04 pm@7, I answered the question earlier about a D and an R you’d prefer as presidential nominee over the current choices (and could support as president, either way) with conventional picks, Michael Bennet and Mitt Romney.
But as an out-of the box suggestion on the D side, I suggest my state of Washington’s current Lieutenant Governor, Cyrus Habib. Not conventionally qualified but at least as smart, thoughtful and accomplished as his contemporary, Mayor Pete Buttigieg.
But alas, he recently turned down an easy reelection and realistic path to be Jay Inslee’s successor, and is leaving politics to enter the novitiate of the Order of Jesuits. That’s too bad…while he’d absolutely hate being President, he’d likely be quite good at it.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a similar R?
For a little additional information, see:
Purple Martin (34703c) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:04 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/opinion/sunday/cyrus-habib-jesuit.html
Now for that I will do a DSCSA style yawn. The last movie I saw in theater was Schindler’s List. Back when it came out.
Kishnevi (2c05aa) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:07 pmSo, my wife sent me this:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996?via%3Dihub
Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial
It’s not a bad result, if a small sample size. Worth a shot.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:24 pmDoes anyone have a suggestion for a similar R?
D’oh. Nikki Haley in an instant.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:25 pmAt this point, those of us not on some fringe (i.e. Trump/Bernie or Bust) would settle for smart and competent and reasonably willing to listen to the other side. Although Congress may make that difficult, what with the flaming-lefist-freak caucus and the Attila-was-a-libtard caucus.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:28 pmAlso required is they have to be aware of their surroundings. Biden is a decade past his sell-by date, and was passed over 3 times in his prime.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:30 pm@95. Apparently, you can’t read nor recognize a catalyst when one is coughed up. But do shout ‘Reagan’ as much as possible– a nation of waiters and waitresses will love it.
@96. AMC was hanging on barely as it was. $5 popcornndall that. TV killed drive-ins; this virus kills the multiplex– or at last forces the into reorganization. What-the-heck; bail them out, too.
@98. The target audience for movie theater-goers is the 14-19 age group. After 20 it trails off fast. You’re not in that age group. Hell, the last in-theater screening we went to was Saving Private Ryan and colleagues were so depressed after seeing it, they weren’t surprised at all it got its azz whipped by Shakespeare In Love.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:30 pmIt is kinda funny how Reaganomics caused all our problems. But only after the Long Boom, the end of double-digit inflation, and the destruction of the USSR. I’m just glad Ronnie never lived to see it.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:32 pmMy condolences to you, Kevin. As we get older, the loss of friends and family becomes more a part of our reality.
Thank you. She was only 60, although she did have some health issues going in. She had just re-married. I’m just glad her husband has the support he has.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:36 pm@104. That was his plan; Hollywood party, credit card life, die and leave the living to pay the bill. Simi Valley pigeons poop tribute to him daily.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:37 pmKishnevi, the economics moron you’re trying to reason is so innocent of any understanding that he can’t even understand the highly intuitive Laffer Curve.
He keeps throwing up (barfing?) the same old crap by some obscure Marxist history prof who knows less about economics than my Golder Retriever. As though that means a thing. But he keeps chanting it like it will bring rain.
He needs to bounce to Jolly Old or la Grande Republique where economic idiots are paid well.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:41 pmBiden is a decade past his sell-by date, and was passed over 3 times in his prime.
He’s pretty much like every guest star on an episode of Combat! By 45 minutes in, you know he’ll say the wrong thing or make the wrong move and he’s history, one way– or another.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:43 pm@107. Ignorance is bliss. Stay happy– and wait for your bailout.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:44 pm@105. I really feel bad for you, K. 60 is far too young to be taken down by this.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2020 @ 7:51 pm96. 98. and 103.
I feel bad for the employees of AMC.
But no one here should fail to note the irony that 50% of the equity and 75% of the voting rights of the equity of AMC Entertainment were held by Dalian Wanda Group Co., Ltd. Dalian City, Liaoning Province, People’s Republic of China as of the latest proxy statement from April 2019. I don’t think that ownership stake has changed over the last year.
JoeH (f94276) — 4/11/2020 @ 8:45 pmHe’s pretty much like every guest star on an episode of Combat!
Yes, but Trump is like the “guest star” in the first act of “Perry Mason”, the one who everyone had a motive to do in, and someone did.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 8:49 pmI liked hearing Cuomo today saying he had absolute authority to re-open NYC schools. It had a certain ring to it.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 8:54 pmI feel bad for the employees of AMC
Well, I’m sure at least some of them were furloughed, not laid off. And I wonder why it took them this long. Unless theater pay scales are higher than I think, the employees would do better with Uncle Sugar’s $600/week + regular UI than anything AMC was giving them. I doubt there were meaningful benefits. AMC should have furloughed the workers and closed all their theaters the moment people stopped coming. Force majuere would take care of any pesky exhibitor contracts.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 8:58 pmThe Bocelli concert will likely occur during the live stream of my church’s Easter service. I hope a replay is available.
Patterico (115b1f) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:51 pm6. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:01 am
Did anyone notice the hint in the price he quoted 0 did Jonah Goldberg understand it – that ventilators kill – that we’d be better off without the ventilators?
Sammy Finkelman (7cd5f4) — 4/11/2020 @ 9:57 pmHe is Risen. Have a blessed day.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/11/2020 @ 10:17 pmThis isn’t disturbing at all.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:16 amWith the soap box and ballot box irrelevant, time for the box of shells.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:18 amIs the china flu a gift? it has reduced all other influenza and diabetic deaths. And who knows how many other diseased caused deaths has diminished.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:31 amhow long will gates and fauci hold out with the vaccine? Are they waiting for pallets of cash? We are being played by this acosta pandering fool.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:45 am120, people are toughing out colds, ear infections and strep for fear of being shunned or diverted to the ventilators. Anything without a fever is overlooked. Mucus is good not bad people have been led to believe.
As to diabetes, COV from China is a convenient alt diagnosis for deaths. I would not be surprised if there is an uptick in new type 2 diabetics in the population after the lockdown is lifted as a result of more eating indoors, baking as an activity and increased alcohol consumption.
urbanleftbehind (65cb20) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:52 am121, hell I think the Chinese themselves have the vaccine already. If the CV was their way of clearing out the Hong Kong rabble, there has to be something to counteract the virus in the event a high PLA officer or CCPer got in contact with it during the tank parade.
urbanleftbehind (65cb20) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:54 ammg (8cbc69) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:45 am
As long as the politicians let him. He;s looking at about the fall of next year. That’s super speedy for him.
In the ordinary course of events, the way things have been slooowed down I read it cold take 12 years.
It realy could be done in 6 moths.
Someone has already started a safety test involving 45 people.
There are maybe 15 different vaccines being worked on – Pfizer is simultaneously moving ahead with four.
Most of the vaccines being developed are not the either the traditional weakened virus (onlly 1) or killed virus (1) varieties, but more innovative ideas. I’m not sure this innovation is not mainly for the sake of innovation – if there is a reason for this beyond the ability to patent the basic idea and to charge more for it. It might take longer, even if the idea could be cosidered is brilliant. (but many ars now since it was first thought of)
There are all trying something different than old fashioned vaccines.
They may be interested in establishing a principle – but that also could give a company a patent on a standard way of developing any vaccine. But several companies are in competition with each other. It’s all things like fusing virus antigens with another safer virus or other forms of recombinant DNA.
Anyway, her’s some news:
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/09/us/09reuters-health-coronavirus-pfizer.html
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:59 am113. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/11/2020 @ 8:54 pm
He is needed to rescind the order to close them, but I think the mayor has independent authority to close them (even granted there could be an issue with the number or school days)
He can’t force Mayor de Blasio to order teachers to come in.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:02 am#39 Thanks. So Trump is doing his usual “I could do that, I have the power to do that, but I’m not doing it”. Its make sense that if a Governor can shut down a whole state for medical reasons, that the President can do the same for the whole USA. I’m sure the emergency powers are just as broad for the POTUS and they are for the Governors.
Was this Aaron Raptor – or whatever his name is – upset when his reporter buddies were asking Trump why he didn’t shut down the whole country just a couple days ago?
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/12/2020 @ 8:53 amLiberal/Left think:
Cuomo: I can reopen NY or shut it down – What a great man
Newsome: I can reopen Calf or shut it down – What a brilliant Governor.
Trump: I can reopen USA or shut it down – Authoritarian! Dictator! Braggart!
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/12/2020 @ 8:57 amThe dog video is great. Ours are almost identical and play this game every day.
Echo (e92c55) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:04 amClearly rcocean’s forgotten the 10th Amendment conservative talking points of a bygone era.
Leviticus (c68ea0) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:08 amGeez, dude. Read the Constitution AND learn some history.
The “emergency powers” have never been invoked by a POTUS, and would not likely withstand scrutiny.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:09 amYes, because we have a Constitution that gives governors this power, not the president. Perhaps Trump could declare martial law or suspend habeas corpus, but it wouldn’t go over well.
Paul Montagu (0073cc) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:11 amNot to be too picky, but the governors had the power already. Each state or commonwealth was a sovereign power prior to giving SOME power to the new central government.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:17 amWhen I used a typewriter, (mostly typing for myself) I used to do no spaces.Like this.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:45 amYou are correct, it is not.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:48 amWhat was disturbing was the image of a middle-aged tud in his jammies scouring the interweb at all hours for hair-ignition fodder.
Yeeeesh…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:58 amIt’s good to see a calm Klink. We shall see you smile again…
https://youtu.be/NXxbHM_Eb78
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:58 amFauci added: “Obviously if we had right from the very beginning, shut every thing down, it might have been very different.”
__ _
Stephen L. Miller
@redsteeze
·
The same people passing Fauci’s quote about “had we closed things down sooner” are the very same people he’s talking about when he references push back to doing exactly that.
Interesting how the first part of his quote is already being breathlessly passed around without this second part:
“ Fauci added: “Obviously if we had right from the very beginning, shut every thing down, it might have been very different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then…..these are complex decisions””
harkin (b64479) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:02 am_
73. The New York Times story can’t decide whether we should trust China, or not trust China. Mostly, it seems mostly to be what should have been done was the opposite of what Trump did. I know the New York Times front page article today had six (6) co-authors, but this is partisan and ridiculous.
Early on we should have relied on intelligence reports. But Trump, it says, didn’t want to upset Beijing during the trade talks. Later, he and others were calling it Wuhan virus. Then, he was too conciliatory to Xi Jingpin rhrough the middle of March. But maybe he should have been: Mike Pence wanted access to supplies. Then he bashed China after it accused U.S. Army personnel of bringing it to China when they visited Wuhan (for some kind of games) in October.
NYT: “Mr. Trump’s decision to escalate the war of words undercut any remaining possibility of broad cooperation between the governments to address a global threat. {!?] It remains to be seen whether that mutual [!!} suspicion will spill over into efforts to develop vaccines [How? They published the genome, after a delay] both areas in which the two nations are now competing. {How is competition bad? Doesn;t it multiply the chances of success?]
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:07 amWhat’s going on with the italics?
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:08 amGabriel Malor
@gabrielmalor
Fed. judge grants TRO blocking Louisville Mayor’s order that prohibits drive-in church services on Easter.
https://www.scribd.com/document/455996852/On-Fire-Christian-Center-v-Fischer-20-Cv-00264-TRO-and-Memorandum
__ _
Patterico
@Patterico
The rhetorical flourishes in this opinion do not inspire confidence even if the decision is correct.
__ _
David French
@DavidAFrench
Yep, it’s a bit much.
__ _
Jesse Bowman
@jessepbowman
·
It is a bit much. It needed to be a bit much. Fire alarms are a bit much. They need to be to get your attention during an emergency.
__ _
Armand Prentiss
harkin (b64479) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:18 am@a1prentiss
·
This! When the state attempts to deny freedom of religion- especially when practiced with due attention given to the virus concerns- I don’t believe there is a verbal response that is “a bit much.”
_
There already is a vaccine.
It took all of seven (7) days to develop it.
It was developed by two medical scientists at the University of Pittsburgh, Louis Falo and Andrea Gambotto, who somewhat coincidentally, had been working on two different things that fit together.
One thing: a skin patch containing 400 tiny needles, to actually do the inoculation (painlessly and effectively without requiring much skill, I presume) Or maybe so the vaccine won’t require refrigeration – they can be distributed like a package of Band Aids.
The second thing: SARS and MERS.
Their work has appeared in the journal EBioMedicine, published by the Lancet.
This is the way things oguht to be. Things should be developed much faster than 100 years ago, or 75 years ago, or 65 years ago, not extremely slower.
The two things they need now are going through the whole regulatory process (and genuinely, they need to know how well this works) and scaling up.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-developed-their-coronavirus-vaccine-in-salks-shadow-11586557454
It took a few years to solve that with penicillin. But we now know so much more, his could be done in months.
See also:
https://www.pittmed.health.pitt.edu/story/sticking-it-disease (earlier work by Dr. Falo, on hos skin patch, intended for skin cancer, incorporated into this new vaccine)
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:32 amBut it requires a decision and political will.
And skipping steps and on;y doing what is strictly necessary.
It didn’t take 10-20 years from the discovery of insulin to use in diabetics, imperfect as the insulin of that time was.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 10:35 amSammy, insulin and penicillin are not in any way analogous to a vaccine for a virus. You are smarter than this!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:02 amSammy is smarter than you. Give it a rest, at least for one day.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:05 amHey, Hack-ew! I love Sammy like a brother. My sometimes slightly crazy, contrarian, instant-expert brother. I’m well rested, thanks!
Are the development/discovery of penicillin and insulation analogous to developing a vaccine for this virus, in YOUR opinion?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:10 amThere are people hurt from tornadoes today.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:18 am124 – Sammy
mg (8cbc69) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:23 amThanks for the info.
I’m sure the emergency powers are just as broad for the POTUS and they are for the Governors.
I’m not. Some state powers preceded the Constitution and are continued under the 10th Amendment. Federal power is limited. In theory at least. You might find some help from the “invasion” language, but the federal power to address civil disorder is EXPRESSLY limited to require a state’s OK. W had a problem with this during Katrina when the governor withheld her approval.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:59 amespecially when practiced with due attention given to the virus concerns
This is actually the killer argument, as an enumerated right should be subject to a high degree or scrutiny, and this law would have trouble squeaking through a “rational basis” test.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:02 pmI guess this is no problem either, right fellers?
Gryph (08c844) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:08 pmThe “emergency powers” have never been invoked by a POTUS, and would not likely withstand scrutiny.
They would if, say, Canada invaded. Both the federal government and any invaded state would have the power to repel such, and whatever civil powers were necessary to do so.
If I was forced to defend Trump (even though I’m not a lawyer) I’d try to compare the current situation to an invasion and that it was a clear matter of national security requiring a nationally-organized response. I’d then go on to the interstate-commerce clause and the general emergency clauses that Congress has enacted. Then I would wave my hands some.
It is not clear to me that any non-whackjob court would block a presidential action during a clear crisis. It might find later that the president overreached though.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:14 pm139 – “ What’s going on with the italics?”
If this was addressed to me, I use italics when I’m relaying someone else’s words. And I dont apply quotation marks to tweets (italics) or headlines (where I use bold).
I do this in an attempt to be understood and consistent.
harkin (b64479) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:18 pm_
Hope everyone had a beautiful Easter. Put all the other stuff aside and enjoy what is hopefully a beautiful day.
Never heard of this, but sounds like a great idea.
Dustin (a65e91) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:18 pmI guess this is no problem either, right fellers?
Apparently not. There seems to be healthy debate (See what I did there?) Our processes appear to be working as designed.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:22 pmOne of the biggest problems with a vaccine is: how do you test for side effects in a novel product that is going to be used by billions of people?
There’s an interesting trade off there between risks.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:23 pmCorrect, since the meme that there is a ban on seeds and fruit plants, as well as car seats among other things, is a lie.
But I know what you’re thinking, “I’m Gryph, I’m posting it, so it can’t be a lie.”
I mean it would be crazy if Gryph was lying. I’d be shocked, shocked!!. It would be so out of character.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:34 pmgenuinely, they need to know how well this works) and scaling up.
So in other words it’s not actually proven to work, and still at the same stage as several dozen other possibilities.
Kishnevi (4d78f4) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:37 pmDo you people keep forgetting what people Trump’s utterance are for? Sure, he could say that there are some things for which he has the authority, and some for which only the states* have the authority, and some for which both have the authority, and it would be just as incomprehensible to them as the general theory of relativity is to a monkey. MAGA! KAG!
*Anything having to do with liquor, for instance.
nk (1d9030) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:39 pmwhen practiced with due attention given to the virus concerns-
Let’s at least be clear on one thing. Holding a public assembly is ipso facto not giving due attention to virus concerns. No matter how well you claim you follow the guidelines.
Kishnevi (4d78f4) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:41 pmHolding a public assembly
Inside cars. In a parking lot. Listening to FM radio. It’s no more a “public assembly” than everyone on my block being at home.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:55 pmKevin, I disagree with you on that.
The church could stream services online like many other churches. Every parish in the Archdiocese of Miami is streaming Mass, no parishioners in church, today per order of the archbishop. Nothing ever prevents these people from reading the Bible and praying in their own home. If it was on FM radio, they could have heard it at home.
Kishnevi (4d78f4) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:08 pmHow you gonna pass the collection plate that way, Kishnevi?
nk (1d9030) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:11 pm“There already is a vaccine.”
I thought the real time killer wasn’t developing a vaccine, but testing it to make sure its SAFE and effective. As Dr. Fauci said, the last thing you want is a vaccine that gives you the disease, or doesn’t work, or has bad side-effects.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:17 pmThe opposite side if that is “free exercise” is not limited to “freedom to worship”. It includes not being compelled to behave against the tenets of your religion. E. g., Hobby Lobby.
nk (1d9030) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:17 pmBasicGestalt.com
@Basic_Gestalt_
•
From Michigan – Non-essential “Lawn care, construction, fishing if boating with a motor, realtors, buying seeds, home improvement equipment and gardening supplies”. Essential- “Marijuana, lottery and alcohol.” They want you high and drunk and docile, not…
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Those long lines in the inner-city to buy lottery tickets kind of take the wind out of ‘selfish white people’ meme from the state.
harkin (b64479) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:25 pm_
162, that’s on them if they haven’t mastered the simple art of preprinted envelopes for the proximate 20 Sundays.
urbanleftbehind (9e3a25) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:26 pmBesides gay keepers of Wildcats being prominent characters, Ozark Season 1 was also prescient with the Boat on the Lake Sunday Service.
urbanleftbehind (9e3a25) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:28 pmHow you gonna pass the collection plate that way, Kishnevi?
My little synagogue does it through Paypal on the website. If a Chabad rabbi can figure it out, so can a Protestant pastor.
g., Hobby Lobby
I have a different view on that. I think Hobby Lobby was trying to force its religious beliefs on others, plain and simple. But I think you already know my opinion there.
Kishnevi (4d78f4) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:29 pmNo Lottery tickets sold from neighborhood liquor/groceries? That’s the lifeline of the true puppetmasters of the 21st century Michigan Democratic party- hint…it’s not the UAW and it’s not black people.
urbanleftbehind (9e3a25) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:31 pmnk, but there are limits on that. if my religion requires me to engage in human sacrifice, i’m still clearly not allowed to do it. and the supreme court outright said in the 1990s that if your religion requires you to consume hallucinogens, the constitution doesn’t protect your ability to do so.
the debate is entirely about what the borders on those limits are.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:31 pmalcohol *has* to be considered an essential good.
i’m not talking from self interest here, i haven’t had an alcoholic beverage since well before the shutdown in california.
but if people who are addicted can’t get access to a continuing supply, then many of them will suffer serious health effects, because alcohol withdrawal is a real medical problem and in many cases an actual medical emergency.
we don’t need those cases in the hospitals right now.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:32 pmThere will probably be higher incidents of side effects from the vaccine. In fact, it will probably become a cause for the anti-vaccine movement. This is where risk/reward and careful decision making needs to be come into play. Sober economists and medical experts need to discuss this and other remedies without politics involved.
And instead, we have such a rush to politicize everything. Trump’s critics see so many reasons to be angry and won’t give Trump the benefit of the doubt. Trump’s fans ignore all information that isn’t positive to their guy’s re-election. And we deserve better.
But anyway, today’s not the day for that. It’s really wonderful today and I’m going to go back outside.
Dustin (a65e91) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:33 pm>It is not clear to me that any non-whackjob court would block a presidential action during a clear crisis
imagine Trump ordering the end to state lockdowns while states are producing epidemiologists saying “if we do that 100,000 people will die in our state alone”.
not clear to me what a court’s going to do in that scenario.
aphrael (7962af) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:33 pm“E. g., Hobby Lobby.”
Hobby Lobby is a corporation, and is therefore incapable of having a religion.
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:38 pm163 – “testing it to make sure its SAFE and effective” I think that’s exactly right and where the comparison with insulin and penicillin is inappropriate. To have an effective vaccine we need to vaccinate the ENTIRE HEALTHY population. In some regards in COVID-19 were more deadly we would have more room to be aggressive, but infecting everyone with vaccine that is factors less dangerous than the virus still means more dead people if not properly tested.
tla (7ab14a) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:40 pmFor Christ’s sake [literally] I’m not a catholic but I give the Pope a helluva lot of credit for showing these self-aggrandizing, amateur bible-thumping pastors nested in the Old Confederacy how it’s done by a pro. Preaching to an empty, lifeless St. Peters Square on an Easter Sunday on television is Faith 101 at it’s best. Stay classy, Pontiff.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:42 pmOh yeah- Happy Easter, everyone.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:42 pmNASA Satellite Data Show 30 Percent Drop In Air Pollution Over Northeast U.S.
‘Over the past several weeks, NASA satellite measurements have revealed significant reductions in air pollution over the major metropolitan areas of the Northeast United States. Similar reductions have been observed in other regions of the world. These recent improvements in air quality have come at a high cost, as communities grapple with widespread lockdowns and shelter-in-place orders as a result of the spread of COVID-19.’ – source, NASA.gov
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/12/2020 @ 2:25 pmHappy Easter everyone.
Nic (896fdf) — 4/12/2020 @ 2:37 pmHobby Lobby is a corporation, and is therefore incapable of having a religion.
Other than your assertion, what do you have to back that up?
If a corporation’s charter states that it intends to abide by religious principles, and it does so (e.g., it closes its operations on that religion’s Sabbath), then why does it not enjoy the same Free Exercise rights as an individual does? Why is a commitment by a corporation to abide by a set of religious principles any less than that of an individual.
And, if you are correct, then how can a corporation have an opinion on any issue of the day, and hence be protected by the First Amendment in expressing that opinion?
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:18 pm“There already is a vaccine.”
161. rcocean (1a839e) — 4/12/2020 @ 1:17 pm
Yes, but that process is itself much too long and divided into too many careful steps…
That also take money and resources.
One way you make sure it is safe, is not to use a virus, but something that has the antigens on the surface of the virus. It doesn’t even take much time to make sure it doesn’t create the disease.
As for effective, that’s probably mostly been solved. You see if antibodies are produced.
But the question goes: Are they the right antibodies? I’m not sure how you would test for that. They have to use logic. Another question: Does everybody develop immunity? Well, you know something, there’s no vaccine that works for everyone. And the chickenpox vaccine particularly, confers weak immunity. It took them years and years after approval to admit that. Does the vaccine create health proles for anyone? I think we know enough to deduce whether it does or not. The types of problems created by vaccins are mostly known now.
Almost no possibility of that. They mostly don’t use either live or killed virus, or don;t have to.
But I don’t think there’s a way to directly test for that. Start using it. Yo’ll know very fast. Now it might not work for people wth compromised immune systems.
Theyy are not going to discover that by testing – only by careful thinking, or by use. .
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 11:02 am
A vaccine is probably easier. Edward Jenner had the cowpox vaccine in 1796 – Louis Pasteur took a couple of months to develop one for rabies in the 1880s. It was simple – sounded very very risky, but there was no choice. By the way they figured out now how someone could survive rabies – probably decades after they could have solved that problem.
Researchers at that time, (1880s thrpugh 1920s) though were stumped by yellow fever and malaria ad other diseases.
It took many years to create a polio vaccine (because they needed a growth medium to culture the disease – we don’t need that any more, and maybe even then it wasn’t so necessary, but they had just gotten stuck in their ways.)
But that truly is besides the point.
It is not how difficult it is to create a vaccine, and avoid some risks, but how difficult it is at the time. And we are far advanced and know a lot. I mean we really do.
We just don’t use the knowledge.
The scientific problem for a vaccine for SARS2 [aka Covid-19] has probably been solved – multiple times – because the state of knowledge is such that a vaccine can probably be churned out almost like following a textbook.
And in the years between diseases, they do all sorts of general research.
The problem is testing – and I myself wonder how does Dr. Andrea Gambotto know that it works? How does he know he is sing the right antigens? Maybe he does’t – but the method of delivery developed by Dr. Louis Falo sound very very good, nd the actual contents of the vaccine could be tweaked, or some other vaccine used.
Rel polio: Some of the early attempted polio vaccines were dangerous – one I think failed circa 1935 – and in the 1950’s one wasn’t manufactured right.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:26 pmKishnevi (4d78f4) — 4/12/2020 @ 12:37 pm
How are the ever going t know?
I see two questions: Does it get the body to produc antibodies? (probably yes, because this is not a new idea.)
And are the antibodies useful for stopping a Covid-19 infection in its tracks.
I think this can be reasoned out, and there’s nothing else to do, except pick maybe more than two parts of the virus.
I think the bigger problem is manufacuring and scalability. The U.S. military should get involved.
And I have question: Which is likely to be bigger worry? Covid-19 or the vaccine?
With penicillin and insulin they more or less just went ahead. (and found problems with peniccllin later that actually weren’t there. Not very many people are actually allergic to it)
Would hit have been better to have waited and waited with penicillin and insulin and tested sme more. Testing that could never give you an answer. Only experience can.
Of course you could worry about an auto immune disease, and what happens if this sis given to pregnant woman.
There’s existing knowledge about this sort of thing!
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:38 pmOne of the biggest problems with a vaccine is: how do you test for side effects in a novel product that is going to be used by billions of people?
This is the main plot point in Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six (the novel, not the video game series).
An evil group wants to kill everyone who isn’t them. For Gaia, of course. They weaponize Ebola and let it loose, then offer up a vaccine to save the world. The vaccine actually contains a time-delay version of the same virus, in quantities certain to be lethal, but since there is no time to test (and the time-delay would thwart any short test) nobody will be the wiser.
The Rainbow Six team saves the day.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:52 pmIf it was on FM radio, they could have heard it at home.
Or driving on the freeway or parked at Walmart, all of which would be legal. Just not at the church. It does not succeed if the court uses heightened scrutiny — as first amendment rights always are — and is suspect even on a rational basis.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:55 pmHow you gonna pass the collection plate that way, Kishnevi?
Venmo
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:56 pmthe debate is entirely about what the borders on those limits are.
Strict scrutiny would be able to deal with both human sacrifice on the one hand, and the horror of people parking their car in the same lot. Intermediate scrutiny probably works, too. If they can do it at Walmart, but not at a church, it fails any test.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:01 pmHobby Lobby is a corporation, and is therefore incapable of having a religion.
It’s privately held. If it were publicly traded, you’d have a point. They do not tell their employees not to buy a separate abortion policy. I wonder why Planned Parenthood doesn’t offer such policies.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:02 pmAnd, if you are correct, then how can a corporation have an opinion on any issue of the day, and hence be protected by the First Amendment in expressing that opinion?
Like, say, the New York Times.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:03 pmSammy, you don’t seriously mean to try to compare medicine now with the dawn of medical science?
Really?
How are things WAY different now?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:10 pmQueens, not Brooklyn, is the place hardest hit. The recently elected DA (term stated in January) 54-year old Melinda Katz (and former Queens Borough President) had it and recovered. She fought it about 20 days.
British Prime Minister 55 year old Boris Johnson is out of the hospital in London as of about 19 am eastern US time and gone to his (is it thw Prime Minister’s?) country home, not 10 Downing Street.
He had it about ten days than was admitred to a hospiatl last Sunday, then got worse and was sent to ICU, and was given oxygen but not put on a ventilator.
His wife to be and others say that for awhile it was touch and go there. I guess he was got whhat his original policy: let people catch it and get herd immunity.
His fiance, who is pregnant, also tested positive.
50 employees of the MTA in New York have died. Highest of any New York agency I think. Most didn’t work directly with passengers But only one sanitation worker?
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:43 pm189, Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:10 pm
We know more.
But also act stupider.
I mean the government does.
We can’t afford to act this way.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:45 pm183. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 3:52 pm
I don;t see how this s scientifically or medically plausible. Does Tom Clancy attempt to explain this? That’s not good science fiction if he just says it.
And how is it this gets produced and distributed without someone discovering this?
Now if the novel had people ignoring knowledge, or disregarding a warning, it would be more plausible.
Anyway ebola is killed by clorox bleach. They had bowls of it outside every store in Monrovia, Liberia.
It just managed not to get wiped out now in Congo.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/12/2020 @ 4:53 pmJulian Assange fathered two children while hiding in Ecuadoran Embassy, alleged partner claims in video
Assange really knew how to self-isolate!
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/12/2020 @ 5:04 pmWe know more. But also act stupider. I mean the government does. We can’t afford to act this way.
Wow. That was your best?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/12/2020 @ 5:50 pmToday I learned: Losing your sense of smell because of the coronavirus should be alarming. There is no blood-brain barrier between where our olfactory nerves are and the brain, and what paralleled the the Spanish Flu 100 years ago and lasted longer was an encephalitis epidemic.
nk (1d9030) — 4/12/2020 @ 5:59 pmTampa pastor live-streams sermon as coronavirus forces Americans to worship differently on Easter Sunday
On the holiest Sunday of the Christian calendar, the Rev. Rodney Howard-Browne was angry. Instead of delivering his Easter sermon to a packed house of parishioners, controversy surrounding the coronavirus pandemic prompted him to live-stream his service on the Internet instead of appearing personally at his 4,000-person megachurch.
Howard-Browne used the opening moments of the unusual sermon — taped from his home studio with an American flag backdrop and a picture of him laying hands on President Trump — to rail against government tyranny.
“This is not about a virus. This is about shutting down the gospel of Jesus Christ,” he preached. “And all these pastors that say, ‘Well, we should just roll over and comply,’ you don’t understand.”
For nearly a month, Howard-Browne’s megachurch, The River at Tampa Bay, has been at the epicenter of a debate on how to balance religious liberty with public health. The controversy came to a head two weeks ago, when Howard-Browne was arrested after holding services packing hundreds into a sanctuary, defying a local emergency order limiting the size of gatherings to impede the virus’s spread.
………
The pastor has been caught in the center of conflicting stay-at-home guidance from Hillsborough County and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R). The county’s emergency order banned church gatherings of more than 10 people and said they had to follow social-distancing guidelines. But that was superseded by the governor’s order April 1 saying churches were essential and could host services of any size.
The county’s order resulted in Howard-Browne’s arrest for what the sheriff called “reckless disregard for human life.” The pastor posted bail and his attorney wants the charges dropped.
…….
…….. In 2017, the Howard-Brownes were among the religious leaders invited to the Oval Office to lay hands on and pray for the newly elected president.
Howard-Browne is a conspiracy theorist who has appeared on Infowars, a far-right conspiracy theory website operated by Alex Jones. In 2017, he warned of “a plot on Capitol Hill to take the president out” and was subsequently visited by the Secret Service.
Howard-Browne, who declined to comment for this article, defended his decision to hold church despite coronavirus restrictions in videos released on Facebook and on his church’s website.
“We had to make a stand,” he said. “I had to make a stand for the First Amendment. This whole stand was about the First Amendment. Everyone can say they don’t believe that.”
……..
Howard-Browne insisted he didn’t take his Easter service online because of coronavirus worries. He claims he has received death threats and that sheriff’s deputies with dogs scoured The River because of a bomb scare.
……..
Howard-Browne continues to spout coronavirus-related conspiracies as his church has been mired in controversy. He claimed the response to the virus was part of a plot stoked by the World Health Organization and the Rockefeller Foundation that wanted to force vaccinations on people and murder them.
“This is a bio weapon that has been unleashed upon our nation,” he said. “Not only on our nation, but all the nations of the Earth. And if you can’t see that, if you think that is just some natural pandemic, you don’t understand, there’s a war going on … in the nations of the Earth.”
On Easter Sunday, Howard-Browne said “the globalist agenda has played their hand too quickly” and called for Trump to fire advisers, including Anthony S. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “If the president bows to mandatory vaccines, we know that he has kissed the ring.”
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:05 pm………
Pretty typical behavior for this idiot. The Sheriff said that every bit of this was a lie, but that was perfectly obvious. I bet his paypal donations page was up though.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:14 pm‘Howard-Browne’s megachurch, The River at Tampa Bay, has been at the epicenter of a debate on how to balance religious liberty with public health. The controversy came to a head two weeks ago, when Howard-Browne was arrested after holding services packing hundreds into a sanctuary, defying a local emergency order limiting the size of gatherings to impede the virus’s spread.
Howard-Browne used the opening moments of the unusual sermon — taped from his home studio with an American flag backdrop and a picture of him laying hands on President Trump — to rail against government tyranny.
“This is not about a virus. This is about shutting down the gospel of Jesus Christ,” he preached. “And all these pastors that say, ‘Well, we should just roll over and comply,’ you don’t understand… This is a bio weapon that has been unleashed upon our nation,” he said. “Not only on our nation, but all the nations of the Earth. And if you can’t see that, if you think that is just some natural pandemic, you don’t understand, there’s a war going on … in the nations of the Earth.”’
Taped???
Aside from Doctor Rusho, the only bigger azz in Florida is stitched to the ‘butt-end’ of the King Kong exhibit at Universal Orlando.
“I’m dead right on this… The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”- Rush Limbaugh, The Rush Limbaugh Show, February 24, 2020
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:22 pm“Other than your assertion, what do you have to back that up?”
Did Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. accept Jesus as it’s personal lord and savior? Will it be saved when Jesus returns? Will all other non-Christian corporations be cast into the lake of fire?
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:33 pmDid Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. accept Jesus as it’s personal lord and savior? Will it be saved when Jesus returns? Will all other non-Christian corporations be cast into the lake of fire?
Do any of your questions have anything to do with the secular legal question of whether Hobby Lobby Inc. enjoys protection under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment or the protections of RFRA?
No, they don’t. You are marking that question of law dependent on Christian theological questions, and that is simply erroneous.
For that matter, does a Jew or Muslim enjoy Free Exercise rights, even though, acc. to the theology you are relying upon, the answer to your questions would be, No, No and Yes. So your questions are simply inapposite to the legal question posed by Hobby Lobby.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/12/2020 @ 6:39 pm“Do any of your questions have anything to do with the secular legal question of whether Hobby Lobby Inc. enjoys protection under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment or the protections of RFRA?”
I wasn’t responding to that question. I’m stating that it’s impossible for a corporation to be Christian. I could make similar arguments for why a corporation can’t be Jewish or Muslim, because a corporation is a non-sentient legal construct, and not a person.
Now, since you asked, the Free Exercise clause doesn’t apply, because, since corporations can’t have a religion, there’s nothing there to exercise.
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:05 pmSee Burwell…and thank Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer for getting RFRA passed.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:05 pmdon;t see how this s scientifically or medically plausible.
Blame my recollection, not Clancy’s plotting. There was some reason why people wouldn’t droop dead before they were all give the shots.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:05 pmSo it would have been okay with you if Hobby Lobby was a sole proprietorship, Mr. Davethulhu?
nk (1d9030) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:11 pmJust a note: here in New Mexico, CV19 deaths have more than doubled in the last week, going from 12 on April 5, to 26 on April 12. Cases have almost exactly doubled, going from 624 to 1245.
https://www.abqjournal.com/1442924/6-more-covid-19-deaths-in-nm.html
And of course more cases means more deaths down the line. More than 30,000 people have been tested, which is a lot for a state that has only 4 million people. We’re at the point here that cases don’t seem to be just the result of more testing.
Covid-19 started here late, as New Mexico, and ABQ in particular are not exactly travel hubs. The first cases were people coming back from NYC or Italy in early March. They say we won’t peak until mid-May.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:14 pmGresham, your governor, was on MSNBC just before dinnertime. She mentioned they were expecting problems in some rural areas, Native American population in particular.
Kishnevi (80558c) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:18 pm“So it would have been okay with you if Hobby Lobby was a sole proprietorship, Mr. Davethulhu?”
Yes. Because there’s no legal distinction between the owner and the business entity.
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:31 pmBut, as a country, deaths are holding steady while cases continue to rise. That implies we are getting a handle on this.
Deaths from Covid have actually held at around 2000 a day, plus or minus a few for the last 5 days.
Colliente (05736f) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:38 pm“I don;t see how this s scientifically or medically plausible. Does Tom Clancy attempt to explain this? That’s not good science fiction if he just says it.”
I feel that the quality of Clancy’s work really declined once Russia stopped being enemy #1.
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:41 pmWIRED
@WIRED
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A right-wing stunt to pin the blame for Covid-19 on the World Health Organization actually contains a useful notion. There is at least some reason to suspect that WHO knowingly and consequentially misled us.
https://wired.trib.al/DKJKj25
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ALX Flag of United States
@alx
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A very confused person wrote this article.
So it’s a “Right-Wing Stunt” but there’s also reason to believe it’s correct
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CovFeFe Patriot
@DHPatriot17
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So now, presenting facts is being termed “a right wing stunt.” Cool story.
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JakobJack-o-lantern
harkin (b64479) — 4/12/2020 @ 7:49 pm@JakobHalvor
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You can feel the begrudging aggression used to type that headline. The transference of chagrined energy from fingertips to letter keys. It’s a wonder to behold.
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There’s ample reason to doubt the death numbers overall, the “at home” death rate in NYC is up 10 fold over the past month. 7,600 people a day have been dying on average in the US over the last 10 years. 2,000 a day for a new cause is massive. The great hope is that this social isolation and staying at home decreases; car accidents, regular flu, and general mayhem deaths, as well.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 8:05 pmThis is going to be very bad.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/12/2020 @ 8:37 pmMore bad……
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:27 pmTrump reposts a message on Twitter that is critical of Dr. Fauci
If Trump fires Fauci I’ll bet the market crashes and so do his polls.
RipMurdock (9f866e) — 4/12/2020 @ 9:35 pmLook for a run on meat.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/13/2020 @ 3:30 amFire that Acosta pandering fool.
The Acosta pandering fool called for ventilators, now Dr’s are saying they are part of the problem. oxogen is whats needed. Some are saying treat it like high altitude sickness.
mg (8cbc69) — 4/13/2020 @ 3:36 amThis Acosta pandering fool is a menace to society.
Eighteen are dead (so far) from the heavy weather in the Mid-west and South, many more without shelter and electricity.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 5:32 amIf Trump fires Fauci I’ll bet the market crashes and so do his polls.
I would say that Duh Donald would not do that to the country in this crisis, but he’s done at least as bad and maybe worse.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 5:35 amNew York has a shortage of coronovirus test swabs, and somebody told or ordered tests to be given for now (by hospitals) only to patients admitted into the hospital.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/han/alert/2020/covid-19-update-04112020.pdf
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:16 amSaliva test:
By the way, there is a much better way to test than these swabs – a saliva test – but this would be something new – they just never worked on this.
But that is less painful, could be done by anyone on himself at home – just spit out saliva – and I would suppose there is every reason to believe that, if properly calibrated – it would give a lower false negative than the 25% current testing does.
This saliva test should not be a minor research project. It needs to be supported and developed – maybe by the U.S. military.
Along with the skin patch administration of a vaccine, whether it’s the original vaccine that a doctor who is a medical researcher at the Universooty of Pittsburgh put together in 7 days, or another.
That skin patch could be offered to anyone who boarded a bus or a long distance train or a plane or went to a big assembly.
Probably the vaccine wouldn’t work fast enough for that to be safe. But maybe could be offered at numerous places – free. With a paper list of counterindications.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:21 amOil gave back early gains and stock futures traded lower with the Dow Jones Industrial Average off around 250 points. Investors are also looking ahead to what will be a busy week of corporate earnings, especially for the big banks, including JPMorgan, Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs.
“Despite” the “historic oil deal brokered by” Duh Donald. Or because of it. What a toxic mess…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:24 amLike Putin and bin Salman give a sh!t about what Trump has to say. What’s he going to do, send a drone after them? Trump is a joke internationally.
nk (1d9030) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:30 amAnd a horrible practical joke at home.
nk (1d9030) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:35 amThe CDC may be about to extend the 6 foot rule to 13 feet, although they probably won’t.
It’s all a matter of probability anyway – length of time near somebody infected and distance and the probability (very low actually) that any particular individual (let’s even qualify this a little) who is showing no signs of coughing is infectious.
But when tens of thousands of people have significantly less contact with each other than before there is a statistically noticeable effect. That’s the way to understand why this “social distancing” works.
And that’s also why we can’t just stop on May 1. We really are, or will be, right where we were, more or less, on March 5. The separation of people keeps the number of cases down.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:47 amThere is an argument (or excuse) for the oil deal.
The world was heading (not that fast but heading) toward running out of storage space for the oil.
But it hurts many more in the U.S. than it helps.
Trump could have bought even more for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to help relive the storage problem.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:50 amFauci’s zone of uncertainty is bigger than anyone else’s (outside the government) as usual. Everyone else says the false negative rate of the swab test is around 25%. He has said it could be as high as 50%.
But he needs to stay on, in spite of many questions about what he says. Maybe more need to be recruited.
Trump doesn’t like that Dr. Fauci said, in answer to questions, that we would be better off now and had fewer deaths had the separations started sooner.
Trump tweeted (he no doubt had help in finding citations) that Fauci wasn’t for that himself. And had early on said things like this was under control.
Meanwhile, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said they are moving ahead with antibody tests (maybe not so reliable, but it will help give people more of a handle on what is going on.
Scott Gottlieb said yesterday on Face the Nation that 2% to 5% of people have antibodies and he thinks it is on the low side of that estimate. It might be as high as 10% among people who work in hospitals. Higher than average too in certain other categories of people, and he named one category as grocery store workers.
So, he said, an antibody test would not be very useful for exempting people from social isolation. 98% of the U.S. population never got exposed enough to develop immunity. I think this is probably a nationwide figure.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 6:51 amA sailor who tested positive for Covid-19 on the USS Theodore Roosevelt has died of the coronavirus, the US Navy said Monday.
The Navy did not disclose the name of the sailor, who was admitted to the intensive care unit of a US Navy hospital on Thursday.
Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt’s crew members have been tested for the virus.
What a shame.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 8:14 amTrump this morning:
Dana (0feb77) — 4/13/2020 @ 9:02 amMakes sense that Trump will work with Governors and the Doctors. There’s no political upside for the President in Forcing a Governor to re-open his state. I’ll predict Trump will go on TV soon and say certain states will re-open with the approval of their governors, and other states won’t. He may even say “I thought State X, should re-open but the Governor disagrees, and since he’s the man closer to the action, I’ll defer doing anything”.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/13/2020 @ 9:13 am“I’ll predict Trump will go on TV soon and say certain states will re-open with the approval of their governors, and other states won’t. He may even say “I thought State X, should re-open but the Governor disagrees, and since he’s the man closer to the action, I’ll defer doing anything”.”
I predict that he will do the opposite.
Davethulhu (d0f7de) — 4/13/2020 @ 9:21 amOne problem is the economic policy (this closure won’t last) is not in line with the medical policy (keep things closed)
One thing or the other needs to be changed.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 4/13/2020 @ 10:13 amFor Kevin: NYT Story about comic books:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/arts/comic-books-coronavirus.html
Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea) — 4/14/2020 @ 11:51 am