Patterico's Pontifications

4/3/2020

Ankle Bracelets Used to Keep Suspected COVID-19 Patients At Home

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:09 pm



[guest post by Dana]

If things continue to worsen, and people continue to flout stay-at-home orders, we can be sure that more states will will move toward these kinds of actions as well:

Officials in Kentucky are using GPS monitors to ensure that people suspected of having COVID-19 remain in self-quarantine. At least four people have been fitted with ankle bracelets after they allegedly defied orders to stay at home.

One individual, identified as D.L. in court documents, was told to stay home for at least a week after a person he was living with had been diagnosed with COVID-19. He refused and left the house on multiple occasions before a judge ordered him to wear an ankle monitor. He was told that he will face criminal charges if he leaves his home during the next two weeks.

Another man who tested positive for the coronavirus went out shopping after he learned of his diagnosis and was ordered to wear the device and told to stay at home. Two other people who live together were also fitted with the GPS devices after they refused to stay at home when one of them tested positive for the virus.

As of Friday (April 3), there have been 770 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Kentucky, and 31 people have died.

Mayor Greg Fischer said that orders like this are needed to help keep the community safe. Other agencies are supportive of the move:

“The home incarceration program is well-suited for this,” said Amy Hess, the city’s chief of public services, which includes oversight of Metro Corrections and Emergency Services. “It provides us with the proper amount of distancing. We can monitor activity after (the monitoring device) gets affixed to them … to make sure they’re not further affecting the community.

The city has gone to great lengths to deal with a community that appears resistant to following stay-at-home orders:

Not enough Louisvillians are taking pandemic guidelines seriously, Fischer stressed again Tuesday. In addition to closing libraries, community centers, the zoo and even some parks over the past few weeks, he’s instructed police to cut back on the types of calls for service officers respond to.

And, in response to a lack of respect for his orders, he even had basketball rims taken off backboards in parks.

Note: A Metro Corrections officer who was sent to attach ankle monitors following Friday’s isolation order has a 101-degree fever and is being tested for COVID-19

Related:

A Kentucky man has been charged with violating Indiana’s stay-at-home order – a preventative measure to stop the spread of coronavirus – after already facing gun and drug charges, according to Indiana State Police.

Indiana State Police announced Tuesday that the Hamilton County prosecutor added a misdemeanor charge for “disobeying a declaration of disaster emergency” against Zachary Peters, 24 of Crestwood Kentucky. With that, Peters faces six charges, according to Indiana State Police…He initially was charged with cocaine, marijuana, controlled substance and paraphernalia possession and carrying a handgun without a license.

Peters was recorded going 96 mph in a 70 mph zone on Interstate 69 , police said. The Indiana stay-at-home order he was charged with violating took effect at 11:59 p.m. on March 24 to prevent the spread of coronavirus.

–Dana

87 Responses to “Ankle Bracelets Used to Keep Suspected COVID-19 Patients At Home”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. Note: A Metro Corrections officer who was sent to attach ankle monitors following Friday’s isolation order has a 101-degree fever and is being tested for COVID-19

    He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity. — Revelation 13:10 (KJV)

    nk (1d9030)

  3. Looks like the libertarian conservative ayn randist free market solution of freedom and liberty for the super menches is a luxury we can no longer afford.

    rota (61dded)

  4. Only proles and animals are free, Comrade rota.

    nk (1d9030)

  5. Are “officials in Kentucky” making sure these people get grocery deliveries?

    I do note that “D.L” and one of the others merely live with someone who has tested positive for the virus, and do not (yet, at least) have it themselves.

    The corrections officer must have gotten the virus several days ago, yet obviously no one thought he needed quarantining. At this point, he probably has infected more people than any of the ones he was sent to chain down.

    Kishnevi (aa8b14)

  6. It’s interesting that those “suspected” of having the virus are being treated the same as those with confirmed cases.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  7. @2./3./4. He that bideth highest shall breathe free. – StunningRevelation 6:66

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. 6. Yeah. This isn’t tyrannical at all./

    (note that I called this weeks ago when so many here were telling me how necessary it all was/is…)

    Gryph (08c844)

  9. I don’t want too be too snarky. New York’s death rate seems to be around 3%. So far. The best way not to die from President Trump’s Coronavirus is not to catch it in the first place.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. @6. A comedy of errors to come…

    “I believe everything and I believe nothing. I suspect everyone and I suspect no one.” – Jacques Clouseau [Peter Sellers] ‘A Shot in the Dark’ 1964

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. In South Korea they just simply racked people using their cell phones with an app they had to download.

    In South Korea everybody has had a smartphone for years. They don’t go out without their cell phones.

    Sammy Finkelman (694340)

  12. Amendment 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    When the Constitution was adopted, states had certain powers that were not granted to he federal government of denied by it to the states. This included maintaining civil order and dealing with epidemic disease, to name two that are relevant here.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Good thing the defiant Kentuckians aren’t in the Philippines:

    Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte took to the airwaves with a chilling warning for his citizens: Defy the lockdown orders again and the police will shoot you dead.

    “I will not hesitate. My orders are to the police and military, as well as village officials, if there is any trouble, or occasions where there’s violence and your lives are in danger, shoot them dead,” he said in a mix of Filipino and English in the televised address. “Do not intimidate the government. Do not challenge the government. You will lose.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  14. Oddly, Kentucky has flattened the curve more than nearly every other state. They won’t peak until mid-May and look to have significant spare hospital capacity throughout.

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. New York’s death rate seems to be around 3%.

    New York’s death rate has more to do with having 718 ICU beds and needing 11,000 today. The best way not to die from the virus you got in New York is being in hospital in Kentucky.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. New York has ordered paramedics NOT to bring heart attack victims to the ER. If they can’t stabilize them in the field, the ER has nothing for them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. @12. 1789- muskets; 2020- muscatel:

    Coronavirus US: Alcohol sales soar by 55% during lockdown

    ‘Bottoms up! Americans turning to booze to get through the pandemic sends US sales of alcohol soaring by 55%. US sales of alcoholic beverages rose 55 per cent in the week ending March 21′ – source, dailymail.co.uk

    “Everybody’s got to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another beer.” – WC Fields

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. 17. Ah-ha! So that’s why liquor stores are considered essential!

    Gryph (08c844)

  19. 16. Not sure where the numbers shake out exactly, but I’m pretty sure you have a better chance of survival in an ER as a heart attack patient than you do if you end up on a ventilator (CoViD-19 or otherwise)

    Gryph (08c844)

  20. Gryph (08c844) — 4/3/2020 @ 1:39 pm

    I think it depends a bit on the state and maybe county. We had a mayor in a city near me that simply mentioned having more uniformed officers in the field in the same press release that included guidelines for the city that was consistent with the county and state. This was seen as an implied threat. There was obviously a bit of pushback based on a followup press release where the mayor was backpedaling so fast you could smell the rubber.

    frosty (f27e97)

  21. 20. I come from a deep-red dyed-in-the-wool Republican farming/ranching state (South Dakota). The only reason our governor hasn’t come down with a summary house arrest shelter-in-place order is because she’s worried about the political blowback in a state of fewer than 900,000 people. The only reason my town (pop. ~27,500) hasn’t pulled the trigger yet on such an order at the city council level is, they’re looking to the governor for political cover. It’s all greaseball stuff of the highest order.

    Gryph (08c844)

  22. @17 message from your local frowny-faced educator person: Please don’t use substance abuse to deal with your anxiety, boredom, or loneliness during this time. Exercise, garden, listen to music, build something, do art, read a book, call a friend or family member on the phone, find some other way to deal with your emotions other than drinking them or smoking them away. /pedantic public service message

    Nic (896fdf)

  23. @21. A regular Piedmont, NM in the waiting– to putting others at risk. See ‘The Andromeda Strain’ for details.

    Golly, if only the dinosaurs had the Constitution to wave at that killer asteroid to stop it from slamming into Earth.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. Gryph (08c844) — 4/3/2020 @ 3:04 pm

    I understood you to be against the lockdowns. How is your governor being kept in check by political necessity greaseball stuff? What you describe sounds like regular politics.

    It sounds like you are trying to argue for lockdowns but the politicians aren’t doing it because they are cowards.

    frosty (f27e97)

  25. 24. I am not for lockdowns. In case it wasn’t apparent, I am thankful for the political tension between the governor and our city council here precisely because it’s not any worse than it is — yet.

    My reference to “greaseball” politics was an allusion to how much the political jockeying in my home state and home town reminds me of Sicilian gangster sit-downs. Even if those goobs do it for all the wrong reasons, they’ve stumbled into doing the right thing so far.

    Gryph (08c844)

  26. “ A regular Piedmont, NM in the waiting– to putting others at risk.”
    _

    Can you clean aquariums with Sterno?

    harkin (b64479)

  27. @26. Only if you cry a lot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. > It’s interesting that those “suspected” of having the virus are being treated the same as those with confirmed cases.

    sure. i mean, kentucky is already familiar with the problem of people getting tested and then going out and about in public-ish swimming pools.

    but less snarkily: of course they are. we don’t have the quantity of tests available or the throughput of tests to test everyone we suspect of being infected, and we can’t wait for test results before acting if the results take a day.

    aphrael (7962af)

  29. 28. You ever stop to think of what a police state would actually look like if we lived in one?

    Gryph (08c844)

  30. Wynona’s Low-Grade Fever

    Wynona’s got herself a low-grade fever
    and she’s stayin’ away from all her friends.
    One day, you know, that fever tried to leave her,
    So we caged her with a cyclone fence.
    Along came Bill, he’s such a pill
    Says “I recognize that smell”
    “Smells like seven layers… she caught a fever
    eatin’ Taco Bell!”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. Führer und Reichskanzler Andy Beshear assumes more dictatorial powers, and the sheeple love him for it.

    I have been pointing out Governor Andy Beshear’s (NSDAP-KY) authoritarian bent for weeks now. Yet we have people oohing ans ahhing over him.

    We are allowing wannabe dictators to seize power, and smiling as they do it. Today, 244 years after the signing of our Declaration of Independence, 219 years after the ratification of our Bill of Rights, we are giving up, with smiles on our faces, the rights that free men gave their lives to establish and protect. This will end very badly.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  32. Today, 244 years after the signing of our Declaration of Independence, 219 years after the ratification of our Bill of Rights, we are giving up, with smiles on our faces, the rights that free men gave their lives to establish and protect. This will end very badly.

    Golly. If only the citizens of Pompeii had a bunch of armchair patriots waving a DoI, Constitution & BoR at Vesuvius’ pyroclastic cloud to stop the deadly eruption cold.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. aphrael wrote:

    It’s interesting that those “suspected” of having the virus are being treated the same as those with confirmed cases.

    but less snarkily: of course they are. we don’t have the quantity of tests available or the throughput of tests to test everyone we suspect of being infected, and we can’t wait for test results before acting if the results take a day.

    Führer und Reichskanzler Beshear has ordered anyone entering the state into 14 days of self-quarantine, period, without any testing being done, and the Lexington Herald-Leader noted that the order is “enforceable by police,” which means: men with guns, who can take you to jail if you do not comply.

    Gryph replied:

    You ever stop to think of what a police state would actually look like if we lived in one?

    Absotively, posilutely right! But the sheeple are applauding, saying “You go, Andy!” Just a couple of months ago the left were trying to throw Donald Trump out of office ’cause he’s a fascist dictator, don’t you know, but when confronted with real fascist dictators, the left cheer wildly.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  34. Coronavirus US: Alcohol sales soar by 55% during lockdown

    Thirty-two years too late. It’s a commie plot, I’ll tell ya.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. I just read that sales of Corona beer were up 9%, but they had to close the plant down due to it not being essential.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  36. The only reason our governor hasn’t come down with a shelter-in-place order is because she’s worried about the political blowback in a state of fewer than 900,000 people.

    Also it’s not exactly Manhattan, or even suburbia. Are the bars full on Saturday night?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  37. Führer und Reichskanzler Beshear has ordered anyone entering the state into 14 days of self-quarantine, period, without any testing being done,

    So has Florida’s Gauleiter DeSantis.

    But before complaining about police states, people should remember that the immigration control/ border security many people on the Right want, we would be living in a police state, obliged to be ready to prove our citizenship status to any and all with a badge.

    Kishnevi (2dabdc)

  38. DCSCA amended his rote response:

    Golly. If only the citizens of Pompeii had a bunch of armchair patriots waving a DoI, Constitution & BoR at Vesuvius’ pyroclastic cloud to stop the deadly eruption cold.

    Well, gosh, there are lots of ways we could make our nation and people safer if we weren’t so busy waving the Constitution and the Bill of Rights around. Think how much safer the citizens of our big cities would be if we didn’t have to do something radical like actually gather admissible evidence and have due process of law, and just throw anyone the police ‘know’ is a gang member into jail. After all, think how much lower crime rates are in China and North Korea, right, and how many innocent people we could save if we did that.

    Of course, the left already want to do away with due process of law. Remember the Obumble Administration’s “Dear Colleague” letter, which ‘encouraged’ college administrators to take care of sexual assault cases administratively, and instructed the use of the preponderance of the evidence standard. That made colleges safer, right, by kicking the bad guys off campus, frequently without being able to confront their accusers or even present any evidence of their own. Of course, that made colleges safer for the cute coeds; the laundresses and convenience store clerks off campus, not so much.

    The subjects in a police state really are safer . . . as long as they toe the line and do what they are told.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  39. Kishnevi wrote:

    So has Florida’s Gauleiter DeSantis.

    Proving that some Republicans have behaved as badly as some Democrats.

    But before complaining about police states, people should remember that the immigration control/ border security many people on the Right want, we would be living in a police state, obliged to be ready to prove our citizenship status to any and all with a badge.

    On border security, yes, absolutely, if you cross the border, you had better have a passport. Internally, we can’t just stop and demand identification from people not observed committing a crime.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  40. So, Dana-in-KY, when Kentucky has 1/3rd the per-capita death rate than neighboring Tennessee, what do you think folks will say? Also, what limit do you see on the state government’s power to control a pandemic? Alternatively, what limit do you see on a citizen’s right to self defense when someone clearly sick is approaching them?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. Führer und Reichskanzler Beshear has ordered anyone entering the state into 14 days of self-quarantine, period, without any testing being done,

    I’ve seen this other places. I’m pretty sure that governors cannot do this, legally. But Trump could. And should have in March.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. Kishnevi wrote:

    But before complaining about police states, people should remember that the immigration control/ border security many people on the Right want, we would be living in a police state, obliged to be ready to prove our citizenship status to any and all with a badge.

    Sadly, that latter part is proving true: you need a Real ID compliant driver’s license, or your passport or military ID, to board an airplane even on a domestic flight. Amtrak’s requirements are similar, though I do not know if your driver’s license must be Real ID compliant. Kind or reminiscent of the old Soviet — and still current Russian — internal passport.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  43. Also it’s not exactly Manhattan, or even suburbia. Are the bars full on Saturday night?

    Even if the bars were full…by comparison, my county has a population of about 1.9 million people living in an approximately 430 square mile area (there’s not quite 800 square miles that are marked as a Conservation Area, meaning the Everglades). More than twice the number of people in South Dakota.

    At the moment we have 1598 confirmed cases and 22 deaths. (I don’t know if that includes the 10 or so cases transferred from the Zaandam to Broward General.) We have been under a county wide lockdown for almost two weeks.

    Kishnevi (2dabdc)

  44. Mr M wrote:

    So, Dana-in-KY, when Kentucky has 1/3rd the per-capita death rate than neighboring Tennessee, what do you think folks will say? Also, what limit do you see on the state government’s power to control a pandemic? Alternatively, what limit do you see on a citizen’s right to self defense when someone clearly sick is approaching them?

    Well, the Lexington Herald-Leader noted that the Bluegrass State is the only state in the nation in which federal background checks for firearms purchases declined between February and March, but that’s because we already have plenty of firearms. :)

    Of course, if someone who is visibly ill approaches you, you should walk away from him first, not shoot, you should indicate that you do not wish to be approached and verbally tell such person to back off, but yes, if said person continues to approach, I think that you do have a right to self-defense.

    The lower per-capita death rate? If that is maintained, yeah, the sheeple will say that Führer und Reichskanzler Beshear was right all along. Of course, a lot of Germans thought that their Führer was right when he dramatically reduced unemployment in Depression-era Germany, when he bloodlessly took back the Rhineland, when he incorporated Austria and parts of Czechoslovakia into the Reich, and even when he defeated France in just six weeks. Der Führer was immensely popular among most Germans; it was only a few groups which had ‘problems’ with his rule.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  45. @38. =yawn=

    If only the citizens of San Francisco had waved the DoI, Constitution and BoR in Mother Earth’s face in 1906, they coulda stopped the ground from destroying their town.

    Meanwhile, today, the sofa kids at Fox & Friends are frustrated CornyVee won’t return their calls, doesn’t tweet pithy responses to Trump, stays on the move and remains unavailable for comment.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. 36.

    Are the bars full on Saturday night?

    Not anymore, but they would have been about a month ago.

    Gryph (08c844)

  47. People are stocking up on booze just as they are stocking up on toilet paper. Unless the “but he wants to be a paperback writer” is claiming that people are pooping 55% more too.

    nk (1d9030)

  48. Sadly, that latter part is proving true: you need a Real ID compliant driver’s license, or your passport or military ID, to board an airplane even on a domestic flight.

    Not until October 1, 2021, extended from the last previous deadline of October 1, 2020.

    nk (1d9030)

  49. ‘Unstoppable by a speeding bullet!
    More powerful than the USS Theodore Roosevelt!
    Able to clear tall buildings on a single sneeze!
    Look! Up in the TeeVee! It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s SuperBug!

    Yes, it’s SuperBug, strange visitor from another country who crossed the Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of Donald Trump. Superbug! Who can change the course of mighty economies, end basketball across the land. And who, disguised as Common Cold, mild-mannered bugaboo from a rising superpower, fights a never ending battle against Kushner, Limbaugh– and his radio ways!’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. Sadly, that latter part is proving true: you need a Real ID compliant driver’s license, or your passport or military ID, to board an airplane even on a domestic flight. Amtrak’s requirements are similar, though I do not know if your driver’s license must be Real ID compliant. Kind or reminiscent of the old Soviet — and still current Russian — internal passport.

    A) You’ve never needed a RealID compliant license to board a plane or Amtrak, as NK said, the deadline was in the future, now it is much further in the future.

    B) You’ve needed a federally compliant ID to fly on a commercial plane for 25 years.

    C) Having an ID on Amtrak is basically random. You technically have to have a valid ID, but in most instances, just like the subway in NYC, in practice it won’t happen. Greyhound is actually more strict.

    Are you saying that you shouldn’t need an ID to fly, should you have an ID to vote, to drive, should it have a photo, not photo, biometrics, explain at what point you think it’s too much? One of those are constitutionally mandated.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. “ I just read that sales of Corona beer were up 9%, but they had to close the plant down due to it not being essential.”

    Not my favorite cerveza but I bought a sixer last week as a show of support.

    It’s down in the garage and I shall venture to touch it sometime in June.
    __ _

    “Only if you cry a lot.”

    Hell of a way to run a hospital.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  52. I passed my seventh year without booze this past Christmas, and my seventh year without an AA meeting this past month. I haven’t even thought about it throughout everything until now. Drinking is something that happens to other people. Like college basketball.

    nk (1d9030)

  53. In my experience with the loved ones around me that are at different places in their sobriety, stress must be kept at bay always, whether through physical activity or some other healthy outlet. When it builds up, thoughts of drinking can easily take up residence in their minds. That’s when the struggle starts. If you don’t have sober loved ones around you to help get you over the hump, go back to your AA meetings, if possible. Avoid a setback. Don’t go there because It’s just really hard to find one’s footing after it happens. I’ll say a prayer for you.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  54. This article on addiction isn’t new but I think it is interesting.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. I’m fine, Dana, but thank you. When I said I haven’t thought about it, I didn’t mean thinking about having a drink. I meant that I hadn’t thought about alcohol at all. Like I don’t think about college basketball.

    AA was part of my rehab. I took the medical approach. Two weeks inpatient in a detox-facility (the first week sedated to a zombie); followed by two months inpatient behavior modification treatment in a different facility nearby; followed by three months in a “sober living” group home far away from my home.

    AA was part of the first two steps and it was monitored by our therapists. Honestly, listening to all those other drunks made me have cravings to drink while at the same time not wanting to be like them. Not to be a part of that community, which at times seemed like a religion. No offense meant to all those whom it has helped, but that aversion, that spark of pride (or vanity), was part of my cure.

    But thank you again, Dana. I never grasped how I turned into a drunk in the first place so I can’t say for sure that it cannot happen again.

    And this is the most I have talked about it seven years too. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  56. And I do have sober people close to me whose respect I want, and whom I don’t want to let down again.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. Thanks for sharing, nk.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  58. Well done, nk.

    DRJ (15874d)

  59. @51. Andromeda will spread everywhere; they’ll never be rid of it.

    @52/55/56: One day at a time, nk. Well done.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. @52. nk: quit 35 years ago: April, 1985.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. Thank you, DCSCA.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. And you too, DRJ.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. I know this has been already linked, but there has been some more “clarification”, and it now seems that burkhas and hijabs along with cowboy bandannas could save you from $1,000 fine in Laredo. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/03/laredo-coronavirus-masks/

    nk (1d9030)

  64. ‘@47. ‘People are stocking up on booze just as they are stocking up on toilet paper.’

    The constipated drunkard needs one more thing:

    Gun sales surge as coronavirus pandemic spreads – CNN

    ‘Gun sellers across the United States are reporting major spikes in firearm and bullet purchases as the coronavirus spreads across the country.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/business/coronavirus-gun-sales/index.html

    Lock and load your watercloset…

    “Can you possibly imagine what is going to happen to you, your frame, outlook, way of life, and everything, when they learn that you have obstructed a telephone call to the President of the United States? Can you imagine? Shoot it off! Shoot! With a gun! That’s what the bullets are for, you twit!” – Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake [Peter Sellers] ‘Dr. Strangelove’ 1964

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. “I passed my seventh year without booze this past Christmas, and my seventh year without an AA meeting this past month. I haven’t even thought about it throughout everything until now. Drinking is something that happens to other people. Like college basketball.”

    – nk

    It is shocking to me that seven years places us in the midst of the time we’ve talked to one another – fourteen years now, since 2006, when I was a literal child and not just a relative one – but it shocks me somewhat more to realize that I did not realize that you had been through a conversion since 2012. I counted on you more than you might know to justify my cigarettes.

    Our profession drives us to chemical relief and I am in the thick of it – not so much in the moment as in the era. I will need help eventually, or even soon. I will look to contact you when that time comes, if you are amenable.

    Leviticus (96a6be)

  66. Absolutely, Leviticus. Anything you’d like.

    nk (1d9030)

  67. But I do still smoke, although more eclectically than the pack of Marlboro red a day.

    nk (1d9030)

  68. Interesting. I’ve stocked up on my favorite beers, some belgian tripels, due to expecting shortages at some point, but I haven’t touched one as I gave up carbs for Lent. I’m glad I haven’t been forced to quarantine otherwise those would be rather tempting.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  69. My mother was so alarmed when she found out that I drank alcohol now and then, not because it signified my break with Mormonism–as she had broken with it, too–but because her brother and two stepfathers had been alcoholics, and one of those stepfathers committed suicide.

    Every time the subject comes up I have to explain to her that alcohol just doesn’t speak to me. I’m in the 85% who can drink without becoming addicted. (Thanks for the link to that study, Dana. It was fascinating.) For me, alcohol is merely a fair to middling enjoyment, especially in social situations, but I can take it or leave it.

    norcal (a5428a)

  70. Always an uplift for me when I see friends talking the same schiff sitting on the same barstools – 17 years after my last round with booze.
    No hangovers ever.
    Happy for you, nk.

    mg (8cbc69)

  71. How’s your granddaugter, mg?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  72. DCSCA gave us hie meme again:

    @38. =yawn=

    If only the citizens of San Francisco had waved the DoI, Constitution and BoR in Mother Earth’s face in 1906, they coulda stopped the ground from destroying their town.

    Given your frequent disparaging of “the DoI, Constitution and BoR,” what are we to assume other than you find them irrelevant and useless, even as you exercise your First Amendment right to freedom of speech here. One wonders: since you have proven so willing and compliant in surrendering your constitutional rights over this, what other dangers do you believe should trump those rights? You yawned at my suggestion that urban dwellers would be much safer if we h\just ignored due process of law and jailed all ‘known’ gang members, so I shall suppose here that you have little problem with that. And you yawned at my sentence, “The subjects in a police state really are safer . . . as long as they toe the line and do what they are told,” so I cannot but help think that the safety of a police state would be just fine with you, though I have noticed that you aren’t exactly toeing the line here, given your criticisms of President Trump.

    So, what am I to think here? As nearly as I can figure it, you are perfectly happy with the government restricting our constitutional rights as long as it is in a manner which coincides with what you have already decided to do, but wish to exercise your constitutional rights and will defend them, in opposition to the government, on the things in which you find yourself in opposition.

    Or, put much more briefly, a squish. Were you in Boston in 1775, when General Thomas Gage ordered the confiscation of weapons from the colonists, you’d have happily surrendered yours, and complained about those uncouth rebels making trouble and breaking the King’s peace. Were you in Congress in 1812, and the Royal Navy were impressing American sailors on the high seas, you would have said, “Well, I can see why the Admiralty saw them as British subjects,” and, really, it was just a few of them, and no cause for alarm. The internment of American citizens of Japanese descent? Well, heck, we were at war, right, so really, it was a practical matter, right, and they’ll all be released after the danger is over.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  73. They should call it the Rand Paul Law (aphrael touched on it but recoiled from it), and Kentuckians would grimace wryly and nod in understanding.

    nk (1d9030)

  74. Adalynn is recovering great, Ragspierre. She smiles a lot is getting her coordination and equilibrium back and eats broccoli, apples and eggs! No seizures since coming home.
    Thanks for asking, and stay healthy, Ragspierre.

    mg (8cbc69)

  75. Same backatcha, mg!

    A little later, I’ll hoist a wee dram of scotch to the bairn lassie.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  76. Spain and GB are really taking it on the chin…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  77. An odd statistic: overall deaths are down of late. Each week, 55-60,000 Americans die from all causes. This was down to about 43,000 in the week ending 3/21. In the most recent week, ending 3/28 it was down to 28,750. So the lockdown IS saving lives, even if the quality of same has decreased. I expect falls at home have gone up though.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

    Also of note, the percentage of people 0-44 years of age who have died of this disease is 3.65% of all Covid-19 deaths, only one of which as been under 25. Aged 45-54 is another 6.52%, ages 55-64 another 11.7%. 65-74 is 23.0%. Over 75 is 56.1%.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. An odd statistic: overall deaths are down of late. Each week, 55-60,000 Americans die from all causes. This was down to about 43,000 in the week ending 3/21. In the most recent week, ending 3/28 it was down to 28,750. So the lockdown IS saving lives, even if the quality of same has decreased.

    The lockdown of hospitals except for PTC and extreme emergencies.

    It’s like I have always said, and the justification for Christian Science: Your chances of survival are better if you don’t go to a hospital than if you do go to a hospital.

    nk (1d9030)

  79. Well wishes to nk, good for him!

    We have a history of alcoholism in our family. My grandfather (on my mother’s side of the family) was a drunk, he died when I was a one year old. As a young teen, I remember asking my dad how my grandpa had died. “Chrome poisoning”, he responded. When he saw I was struggling with the explanation, he clarified it further with, “hit by a car”.

    My sister was developing a drinking problem in the mid-90s, and when she lost her beloved husband to a heart attack (he was 43) in October of ‘98, things went downhill. She couldn’t cope with her sadness. When we went down to SoCal for Thanksgiving in ‘99, one look at her confirmed that she was a full-blown alcoholic. We got her into rehab in early 2000, but the drinking continued when she got out.

    She was hospitalized and the medical professionals told us that her drinking had pretty much done a job on her liver. Nothing could be done for her. Thanksgiving of 2003, the family gathered with the expectation that this was the last one we’d get to spend with her. Her appearance was shocking, she was yellow, distended abdomen, and it was a terrible predicament.

    I had been inactive in church for a few years, but she and her husband’s family were faithful. Her bro-in-law had been a real rounder in his youth, but straightened up after his marriage and became a faithful Mormon. The religion has a practice of laying on of hands, where a few priesthood holders will do that and give the afflicted a blessing.

    After all of the bad news on her condition, our family was just praying that she be comfortable, as she was too far gone.
    Sis began feeling better, and within a few weeks, looked better than she had for several years. The medical professionals couldn’t explain it. All we knew was that it was a miracle. We had the joy of having her with us for another 12 years, until she passed away in June of 2015 from a heart attack.

    I can’t imagine the happiness, gratefulness a person must have to kick something like that. I only know how overjoyed I was that our family – and her children – had more time with her.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  80. Thank you for the good wishes, Haiku. And the inspirational story of your sister.

    nk (1d9030)

  81. Gryph, at 28:

    > 28. You ever stop to think of what a police state would actually look like if we lived in one?

    Dana, at 33:

    > Absotively, posilutely right! But the sheeple are applauding, saying “You go, Andy!” Just a couple of months ago the left were trying to throw Donald Trump out of office ’cause he’s a fascist dictator, don’t you know, but when confronted with real fascist dictators, the left cheer wildly.

    ————–

    There’s a long history of governments imposing draconian orders to maintain public health during epidemics. At one point during a polio outbreak, NYC was subjected to an order that didn’t let anyone out of their homes without a piece of paper giving them permission to do so. Every major city in the country adopted shelter in place orders like the ones we have now, during the spanish flu pandemic. This is the *standard mechanism* for dealing with a horrible problem that the modern world has generally avoided having to deal with.

    The overwhelming majority of these have been lifted once the crisis has passed. They have generally speaking always been temporary, emergency measures that have been withdrawn after the end of the emergency.

    aphrael (7962af)

  82. This got left out of my #81:

    > What reason do y’all have to believe that this time is different?

    aphrael (7962af)

  83. Dana, at 44:

    > if someone who is visibly ill approaches you, you should walk away from him first

    how does that help? the biggest problem with this disease is that you are infectious for days before you show symptoms. staying away from visibly ill people is simply insufficient.

    aphrael (7962af)

  84. nk, at 55:

    congratulations on your reccovery. i’m glad to hear you are doing well, and I thank you for the trust you have shown us in being willing to talk about it here.

    aphrael (7962af)

  85. Justice William Douglas, writing for a unanimous Court in Ex parte Endo 323 U.S. 283 (1944), noted that the internment of American citizens of Japanese descent was promulgated by an executive order, not an act of Congress, and “It does not appear that any respondent was ever served with process or appeared in the proceedings.” They were just rounded up and shipped off to internment camps. The Court said that they could no longer be detained and must be released. Too bad, I guess, that they had already been locked up in Konzentrationslager for three years by then!

    Governor Beshear, among others, have issued their own ‘executive orders,’ without any approval by the state legislatures, and declared that certain people who have crossed state lines must self-quarantine, without any due process of law, without any day in court, and without any confirming tests that they carry COVID-19. The states are assuming, as did President Roosevelt in 1942, that certain people are simply dangerous, because of who they were, without any evidence that any particular individuals were actually disloyal, in 1942, or infected, today.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  86. aphrael asked:

    how does that help? the biggest problem with this disease is that you are infectious for days before you show symptoms. staying away from visibly ill people is simply insufficient.

    I was answering a specific question about what I thought was appropriate if I saw a visibly ill person approaching.

    The Dana in Kentucky (fd0d45)

  87. Governor Beshear, among others, have issued their own ‘executive orders,’ without any approval by the state legislatures, and declared that certain people who have crossed state lines must self-quarantine, without any due process of law, without any day in court, and without any confirming tests that they carry COVID-19.

    They are not ‘executive orders’. They don’t require legislative approval, due process of law, or (repeating yourself) a day in court.

    Just like for decades in this country and for centuries around the world.

    I remember well being stopped at the Kulifornia border and having all our produce taken. We were not allowed to risk the state’s agriculture. Confiscation…and no compensation.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)


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