Patterico's Pontifications

3/28/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:39 am



[guest post by Dana]

Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item

And so it goes:

In a signing statement released hours after Mr. Trump signed the bill in a televised ceremony in the Oval Office, the president suggested he had the power to decide what information a newly created inspector general intended to monitor the fund could share with Congress…Under the law, the inspector general, when auditing loans and investments made through the fund, has the power to demand information from the Treasury Department and other executive branch agencies…But in his statement, which the White House made public about two hours after the president signed the bill, Mr. Trump suggested that under his own understanding of his constitutional powers as president, he can gag the special inspector general for pandemic recovery, known by the acronym S.I.G.P.R., and keep information from Congress.

Second news item

Another young person dies from coronavirus:

The death of a 25-year-old pharmacy technician this week from the coronavirus has prompted Riverside County officials to remind residents that the elderly are not the only ones as risk….Health officials said that the technician was exposed to the COVID-19 virus outside Riverside County and was in self-quarantine in La Quinta. The individual did not have any underlying health issues, according to county officials.

Third news item

Five-minute test on deck:

Abbott Laboratories is unveiling a coronavirus test that can tell if someone is infected in as little as five minutes, and is so small and portable it can be used in almost any health-care setting.

The medical-device maker plans to supply 50,000 tests a day starting April 1, said John Frels, vice president of research and development at Abbott Diagnostics. The molecular test looks for fragments of the coronavirus genome, which can quickly be detected when present at high levels. A thorough search to definitively rule out an infection can take up to 13 minutes, he said.

Fourth news item

State-to-state travel becoming more difficult:

Governors, who also now find themselves competing with one another for urgently needed medical resources like ventilators, say they are placing restrictions on visitors to save their own people, trying to prevent the contagious virus from spreading further into their states. They are on particular alert for travelers from New York City, which has far more confirmed cases than any other area in the country.

And in a spiraling health crisis that has largely been managed by individual governors rather than a cohesive federal government, there has been little to stop them from making their own rules.

Fifth news item

U.S. pushes for support of Taiwan:

Donald Trump has signed into law an act obliging Washington to help bolster international support for Taiwan, putting the US on a collision course with China even as the two countries try to stabilise relations that have deteriorated over the coronavirus pandemic.

The Taiwan Allies International Protection and Enhancement Initiative (TAIPEI) Act, a law passed with strong bipartisan support, requires the Trump administration to reward third countries that have strengthened or upgraded relations with Taiwan.

The law also says the US must “alter its economic, security and diplomatic engagement with nations that take serious or significant actions to undermine the security or prosperity of Taiwan”, and calls on Washington to advocate for Taiwan’s participation in international organisations.

The move raises US support for international recognition of Taiwan to a level rarely seen since Washington cut diplomatic ties with Taipei in 1979.

Related:

Taiwan Foreign Minister Joseph Wu extended a personal invitation on Saturday for three major U.S. newspapers to station on the island their China-based journalists whose expulsion Beijing has announced…“As @nytimes, @WSJ & @washingtonpost face intensifying hostility in China, I’d like to welcome you to be stationed in Taiwan – a country that is a beacon of freedom & democracy,” Wu wrote on Twitter…“Yes! You’ll find people here greeting you with open arms & lots of genuine smiles.”

U.S. lawmakers make more moves to recognize Taiwan as independent state.

Also related:

Stay safe and have a good weekend.

–Dana

436 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. There is significant reason to believe that the quantity of viruses you’re exposed to upon infection matters to how sick you get, so keep up protective protocols even if they ultimately don’t prevent infection.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  3. “But in his statement, which the White House made public about two hours after the president signed the bill, Mr. Trump suggested that under his own understanding..”

    OK sure. Once again the press is saying Trump said X, when he didn’t. He “suggested it” or “Implied it”. Which is what Trump may have done, or NOT have done. Since the Press constantly says he implies something when that’s just their OPINION.

    But his will now be reported as FACT, even though its not.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  4. Yes, a young person died of the Wuhan Flu. Because “much less likely” doesn’t equal absolute Zero. A young person’s death rate of .05% is still not zero.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  5. President Donald Trump said Saturday that he’s considering placing a short-term quarantine on New York, New Jersey and certain parts of Connecticut as the coronavirus outbreak continues to spread.

    “I’m thinking about that right now. We might not have to do it but there’s a possibility that sometime today we’ll do a quarantine,” Trump told reporters at the White House Saturday. “Short-term, two week on New York, probably New Jersey and certain parts of Connecticut.”

    Trump said he would make a decision today whether to enforce a quarantine. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he spoke with Trump Saturday morning but didn’t discuss a potential quarantine on the state.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  6. That last clip of the WHO feller being aggressively anti-Taiwan independence is remarkable.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  7. That last clip of the WHO feller being aggressively anti-Taiwan independence is remarkable.

    I hadn’t got that far yet. Yeah, it’s disgusting. What a cowardly lying arse.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  8. Hmm. I don’t know. The last time I looked the government of Taiwan did not claim to be an independent state. It claimed to be the legitimate Republic of China, including the mainland whose Beijing government it considers illegitimate.

    Kind of like California these days, actually. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  9. “I do not understand, and my administration will not treat, this provision as permitting the S.I.G.P.R. to issue reports to the Congress without the presidential supervision required” by a clause of the Constitution that instructs the president to take care that the laws are faithfully executed, the statement said.

    That seems more than a “suggestion” or “implication” by the Thug Behind The Resolute Desk. But cultists will excuse his conduct regardless…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  10. Once again the press is saying Trump said X, when he didn’t. He “suggested it” or “Implied it”. Which is what Trump may have done, or NOT have done.

    The signing statement was made public, so anyone can check it to see if the press was misrepresenting it just to make Trump look bad. And reporters were certainly aware of that.

    Trump, on the other hand, seems oblivious to the fact that people can compare his public statements against his own earlier statements or against verifiable facts.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  11. California:

    California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Friday commuted 21 prison sentences and pardoned five people who had already served their time behind bars, citing the coronavirus pandemic as a factor in his decision.

    Fourteen of the commuted cases involved murder or related charges

    In two of the cases, the victims were children. A pregnant woman was the victim in another case.

    Among those who had sentences commuted were Suzanne Johnson, 75, of San Diego County, who had served 22 years for assaulting a child who died; 64-year-old Joann Parks of Los Angeles County who served 27 years for the deaths of her three young children who were killed in a house fire, which Parks denies setting; and Rodney McNeal, 50, of San Bernardino County, who served 22 years for fatally stabbing his pregnant wife, a crime he also denies.

    Newsom’s office said the clemency grants were in progress before the coronavirus outbreak, which has sickened more than 4,200 Californians.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  12. Dana – thanks for posting that tweet about the WHO official.

    I was surprised that after I posted it in the previous thread there were no remarks.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  13. I’ll give rcocean this one. The NYT should have written:

    In a signing statement released hours after Mr. Trump signed the bill in a televised ceremony in the Oval Office, the president suggested he had the power to decide what information a newly created inspector general intended to monitor the fund could share with Congress… said that he had the power to gag any whistleblower who snitched him out for stealing from the United States Treasury, whether directly or by steering President Trump’s Coronavirus slush fund money to his failing businesses, to his family, or to his cronies.

    nk (1d9030)

  14. Harkin has a great comment on the coronavirus open thread about melatonin. I can’t link to it for some tech reason, but recommend you find it and read it and put it into your thinking caps.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  15. Whatever one may think about the pending quarantine order for NY, NJ, and CT, it’s many days late and dollars short.

    Coming to a closed city near you. Uncle Joe, Nikita, and Leonid are chortling. Vlad is preparing a medal for his next State of the Federation speech.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  16. If we are serious about quarantining people, which I’m not, then they should just quarantine all major cities. That’s where the outbreaks occur. And shut down flights. But that hasn’t happened.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  17. 15 – thanks.

    Let’s be clear I am not recommending taking it but the stuff I read seemed to show enough promise to give it a try.

    You can take supplements or just eat certain foods to increase levels.

    “ The researchers found pineapples, bananas, and oranges were able to increase melatonin presence significantly. Pineapples increased the presence of aMT6s over 266% while bananas increased levels by 180%. Oranges were able to increase melatonin by approximately 47%.

    https://naturalsociety.com/8-foods-naturally-increase-melatonin-sleep/#ixzz6I0eNkZRz
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  18. Nice to see you back, Ed from SFV.

    My peeve is with calling it a quarantine. It is not a quarantine. A quarantine is when you isolate a sick person to keep him from infecting the rest of the population.

    This is a curfew. In which you forbid all the people from going about. A round the clock curfew. It is usually imposed on a conquered populace by an army of occupation.

    nk (1d9030)

  19. 7 – “ That last clip of the WHO feller being aggressively anti-Taiwan independence is remarkable.”

    It’s one thing to shy from discussing Taiwanese independence but this guy who appears to be another of China’s WHO stooges wouldn’t even discuss Taiwan membership in the WHO or Taiwan period.

    I really can’t explain this any other way than fear of angering the people holding the money and the strings, the same thing we saw in the NBA’s cowardice and ignorance regarding the Hong King protests.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  20. The researchers found pineapples, bananas, and oranges were able to increase melatonin presence significantly.

    One thing to be careful about is elevated blood glucose, even transiently (after a meal), can suppress some elements of immune response. So, if you have good blood sugar control, that may be a reasonable way to increase melatonin; if not, physiologic-range (i.e., low-dose) supplements may be more prudent.

    Further, while I think supplements are warranted now, you can also increase melatonin by sleeping in a pitch black room at night and, above all, avoiding blueish, then greenish, then whitish tinted light at night (yellow/orange/red light disrupts melatonin production much less).

    Interfering with your body’s production of melatonin is a bad idea.

    You can also use apps like f . lux on your computers and iDevices and Twilight on your Android devices to reduce blue light exposure at night; you can even wear amber or orange tinted sunglasses or sun-overglasses.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  21. Stop lying about potential treatments, you are a menace.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  22. Stop lying about potential treatments, you are a menace.

    You’re a fool.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  23. You’re a fool.

    You’re a liar, a troll, and are putting lives in danger.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  24. Nah. The opposite.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  25. Hmm. I don’t know. The last time I looked the government of Taiwan did not claim to be an independent state. It claimed to be the legitimate Republic of China, including the mainland whose Beijing government it considers illegitimate.

    Comrade nk is correct. In fact different political cliques on running-dog imperialist island have different position on independence question.

    (More proof that allowing multiple political parties and so-called “democracy” is mistake.)

    Mainland comrades have only one position: declare independence is trigger immediate invasion liberation.

    Kind of like California these days, actually. 😉

    One-party state is far superior!

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. There are risks and drug interactions associated with melatonin, even at low doses. Always check with your doctor before taking new supplements.

    DRJ (15874d)

  27. One month ago today:

    THE PRESIDENT: We’re at the same number. A lot of people are getting better. Very much better. The 15 number. Plus we took in, as you know — from Japan, we took in some great American people and citizens and they’re getting better very rapidly. They’re doing very well. All of them are doing well.

    The 15 people, likewise, we have them down to a much lower number. They’re in good shape. Most of them are in really good shape. One of the people is — I wouldn’t say “not doing well,” but it’s very — she’s very sick. But she’s hopefully getting better.

    But we’re at the same number. We’ve only — so, it — essentially, we’ve only had 15. And a lot of that is because we called it early. We — we were — we made a decision very early to close up our borders to certain areas of the world and we did that. And so we are hopefully getting lower from that number, but let’s see what happens into the future.

    […]

    Q And then, is this a hoax? Your Chief of Staff seemed to suggest that our coverage of this was a hoax. Do you think this is a hoax?

    THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that the media is — yes, I think that CNN is a very disreputable network. I think they’re doing everything they can to instill fear in people and I think it’s ridiculous. And I think they’re very disreputable.

    And some of the Democrats are doing it the way it should be, but some of them are trying to gain political favor by saying a lot of untruths.

    The fact is, I made one decision that was a very important decision and that was to close our country to a certain area of the world that was relatively heavily infected. And because of that, we’re talking about 15 — who seem to all be getting better. One is questionable.

    And, had that decision not been made, it could be a much different story. So, some people are giving us credit —

    Q (Inaudible) the CDC has overestimated the risk?

    THE PRESIDENT: Quiet. Some people are giving us credit for that, and some people aren’t. But the only ones that aren’t, they don’t mean it; it’s political. It’s politics.

    Dave (1bb933)

  28. Detailed account of the testing debacle in the US:

    The Lost Month: How a Failure to Test Blinded the U.S. to Covid-19

    Yep. It’s awful. The electorate has a right to consider this and the congress should, at the appropriate time, hold hearings into it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  29. It’s one thing to shy from discussing Taiwanese independence but this guy who appears to be another of China’s WHO stooges wouldn’t even discuss Taiwan membership in the WHO or Taiwan period.

    WHO doesn’t recognize Israel, has them reflected as Occupied Territory, or something along those lines.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. WHO doesn’t recognize Israel, has them reflected as Occupied Territory, or something along those lines.

    I can understand political bodies having such a distinction (a nation or even the UN); medical organizations shouldn’t.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  31. Tara reade, lucy flores. amy lappos, d.j. hill, caitlyn caruso, ally coll, sofie karasek and vail kohnert-yount and more to come groper joe!

    rota (35f4fa)

  32. I love the Mr. Hand moment the Florida media created by snarkily pointing out to Gov. Desantis that sufficient spacing was not being observed in his pressers. He responded with a, “Quite right, Mr. Spicoli.” He proceeded to bar the complainers so as to ensure proper spacing. LMAO.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  33. Groper Joe? Is that the same person as young-girl public sniffer Joe? Children love to touch his long leg hair at the pool Joe?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  34. From hair dryers up the nose to various medications, please be careful trusting what you read on the internet. There are people who think it’s funny to mislead those who are scared, especially if they disagree about politics. It’s interesting that one of the guys giving us medical advice occasionally expresses an extreme frustration of this blog’s general point of view.

    Yesterday he was telling us to deliberately infect ourselves with COVID 19 so we only get a mild case. If even one person believes him, that will probably cause death from spreading the disease. Harkin (I think) suggested natural ways to increase your body’s production of melatonin from eating produce. That’s a good safe thing to do. I would hate for someone to start taking melatonin pills and then grab a bunch one day because he was afraid he got exposed at the store.

    Melatonin can have a hypnotic effect (not my term) when mixed with beer and is antagonized by other medications. DRJ is right. This is definitely something you’d need to discuss with the doctor.

    So my advice, eat well, exercise, try to keep a good routine for your schedule and sleep, but don’t start taking medical advice from obsessed internet trolls. Some internet trolls are mentally unwell.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  35. No I wasn’t and you’re lying. Quote the entire comment, and its follow-on comment, in their entirety.

    You were lying, you are lying, you are a liar. Your brand is liar. Own it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  36. You’re a piece of sh*t, Colonel Klink, on your best day.

    Maybe so, but I’m not shilling a dangerous and debunked cocktail hoping to sow chaos and cause a few deaths. Lying about it’s effectiveness, and generally just lying. Again, it’s what liars do.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  37. NOTICE: For the time being (until our host weighs in), let’s not promote ingesting anything as a possible prevention/treatment for coronavirus unless it comes from the CDC. We are not medical professionals, and there is a risk in doing so. That people in AZ acted foolishly and acted on Trump’s touting of choloroquine, informs me that there are indeed, gullible and foolish people out there willing to try anything. I don’t know that they will read anything being promoted here and act upon it, but I don’t want that to happen. Especially in the comments section(s) of my posts.

    If anyone posts a comment that goes against what I have just said, I will delete that comment, and you will go into moderation.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  38. NOTICE 2: There better be some serious cooling off by certain commenters, or you are all going into moderation. Enough with this crap.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  39. @43. Dana- our local evening news has had to devote an entire “special segment” nightly to debunking these “remedy rumors.” For instance, they torpedoed the “banana” thing Thursday night. Lots of crazy stuff floating around out there.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. No I wasn’t and you’re lying. Quote the entire comment, and its follow-on comment, in their entirety.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/28/2020 @ 2:23 pm

    I wasn’t talking to you. I was talking about you and the other trolling behavior online. Most of us are not naive and understand you’re here maliciously. I see no reason to bother explaining to a room full of people who could explain it to me.

    Suggesting getting sick on purpose should be a potential preventative treatment can encourage people to make awful decisions that would spread the disease. I understand part of your troll is to feign outrage that anyone calls you out, so you write things a little obliquely with a few ‘maybes’ so anyone saying your information is poor is just a ‘liar’ for suggesting you said it. Yet you do know the comment I referred to immediately so… you’re the liar again.

    People should not deliberately infect themselves with a ‘mild’ case of COVID 19, they shouldn’t take melatonin (but good diet will produce it) and they shouldn’t hunt down other medicine based on something they read from an anonymous troll online. I know this sounds obvious to intelligent people, but infections can reduce blood oxygen, which can impair judgment. People can be hurt more easily by bad information than trolls realize, giggling in the basement about all the frustration they stirred up.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  41. Cross posted with you Dana. I’ve been trying to ignore that stuff and I definitely can ignore it now that you’ve put a stop to it. Thank you for keeping the blog running.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  42. I’ll accept that we cross-posted, Dustin.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  43. “ Harkin (I think) suggested natural ways to increase your body’s production of melatonin from eating produce. That’s a good safe thing to do.

    Thanks. I also said (above) that I was not recommending anyone follow suit. I read some articles and was impressed enough to how it has worked for other immune issues. I am in one of the higher-risk groups (over 60 w past pneumonia issues).

    That being said and this is no way directed at Dustin but this board could maybe differentiate better about some issues such as a glass of pineapple juice and a banana a day and those idiots in AZ ingesting aquarium cleaner.

    Just yesterday we had to explain the difference between the Wuhan wet markets and Farmer’s Markets in the United States.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  44. Leading contender for most tone-deaf tweet of the pandemic:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1243970383985999872

    I couldn’t find original so it may have been deleted.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  45. Btw – I look further than the local evening news to make health decisions. The local news here a while back said the virus could not be transferred human to human.

    harkin (b64479)

  46. LOL, Harkin. That tweet should be considered an in-kind donation to Bernie Sanders.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  47. One hospital in my area is having problems with delayed test results and with possible false negatives. I believe that is because the hospital has already reported more people on ventilators in the ICU than they have positive tests. Anyone else hearing this in their communities?

    DRJ (15874d)

  48. Make America Ordered Again is moderated and I deleted a number of comments in which he called people a liar, a piece of shit, and so forth.

    I also investigated whether it’s true that he advocated people deliberately infecting themselves with the coronavirus, as Dustin said. He said this:

    If there is a technology to expose people to a small quantity of the natural virus, we should consider that, as initial dose seems to correlate with severity of symptoms.

    Fact check: true enough. I’ll consider a total ban depending on how he reacts to the moderation. Leaning towards at this point.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  49. I haven’t heard that, DRJ. What I have heard, is that in our town, there are 13 patients in our local hospital, potentially infected, with no further release of information . There is a push here to keep the information tightly controlled.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  50. I will note that I had given MAOA a specific warning about personal attacks, *before* he started calling a friend of mine a liar (for a true comment) and another commenter a piece of shit.

    I’m not accustomed to being ignored quite that blatantly and I do not take kindly to it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  51. Btw – I look further than the local evening news to make health decisions. The local news here a while back said the virus could not be transferred human to human.

    harkin (b64479) — 3/28/2020 @ 2:54 pm

    This is why it’s reasonable to be angry with China. I believe they were fully aware this disease was spreading because many of the people treating the sick were getting sick, and though it’s easy to see this as a backwards primitive bunch of poor people chewing on bat wings, the truth is this was one of the most sophisticated disease research centers in the world. They had a pretty good grasp on the problem. I don’t think we’ll understand the virus fully for years and we keep changing out minds about it, but that early period of information led to some basic biases at play.

    Let’s give Trump the full benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument (and just the sake of argument). He wants a booming economy and has heard that this virus can’t spread from person to person. So it’s just matter of sanitation, and restrictions on the economy are minor. His advisers know how critical the DOW is to his narrative. So they challenge this information much less. We are America and we have optimism bias that we can avoid problems that hit developing countries hard. No wonder Trump is so angry with China now. He has ample reason to be, and I believe he also was suckered into appearing negligent for months. of course, does China mind a bit that Trump has political problems? Nope.

    IF you really look carefully at what was said, it was very qualified at times, but to me, those qualifications are just smarter lying.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  52. @47. harkin, our local news confers w/t San Diego medical facilities- like Scripps out in LaJolla; the region is festooned w/bio-med research and medical estblishments- some of the best in America. Much more reliable than some quack on the web.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. I should add, that our community hospital is small, but at a well known teaching hospital bordering our community, they are prepping a massive triage area in anticipation of a big surge in coronavirus patients in the next 4-7 days.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  54. The same Scripps that said this?

    “Sleep is essential for your physical and mental well-being,” says Lon Manson, MD, a family medicine physician at Scripps Clinic Rancho Bernardo. “Adequate sleep helps restore your energy, boost your mood, lower your blood pressure and produce hormones that help build muscle, repair cells and tissue, fight infection and control appetite…..

    ….. Blue wavelength light from digital devices, including phones, tablets and computers, keeps us alert, and inhibits the production of melatonin, the hormone needed for sleep.

    https://www.scripps.org/news_items/6218-7-tips-to-beat-insomnia-and-get-you-sleeping-again

    Damn quacks!!

    I’m not here to argue that anyone should follow what I’m doing but maybe your local news channel isn’t infallible.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  55. The fish tank cleaner eaters is the type of people we have in az. They seem to congregate in mesa. (and they vote too!)

    rota (35f4fa)

  56. In the coming feces storm over DJT’s travel restrictions in the Tri-State, let’s all keep in mind that they would not be necessary at all but for folks who willfully refuse to observe common sense protocols.

    We all saw any number of reports condemning the Spring breakers for their refusal to honor their brothers and sisters. Wanna bet we will see similar tsk tsking for those who now insist their travel rights supercede all too real public health considerations? Suuuure we will.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  57. Btw – That Scripps article just happened to be one of the quack articles I read earlier this week when looking for natural ways to fight infection. I should also have bolded that part.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  58. Results announced for follow-up study on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin:

    https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

    Has anyone seen any other studies with these drugs, in particular ones that challenge its use for COVID-19? I have seen several physicians interviewed that are using this combination of drugs off-label, as well as many hospitals and physicians that are ordering it.

    ONLY TAKE MEDICATION THAT HAS BEEN PRESCRIBED BY YOUR PHYSICIAN.

    Mo Hawk (6c01b3)

  59. @56. Which has nothing to do w/ sourcing virus vaccines. So stop dissing America’s local media outlets- they’re more on top of this than the quack-in-chief in Washington– or the right-wing-broadcasting-quack-battling-lung-cancer bloviating on the radio holed up in Florida:

    “Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus … I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.” – Rush Limbaugh, ‘The Rush Limbaugh Show’ 2-24-2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. 61 – please link to anything I said about sourcing vaccines, you sound deranged.

    Otherwise, don’t forget to get a good night’s sleep, it can’t hurt!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  61. Thank you for calling attention to Taiwan, Dana. It is my favorite country after the U.S. I’ve been to Taiwan seven times, and am always amazed at the friendliness of its people. I majored in Chinese in college, and have known many Chinese people over the years. I lived in Beijing for three months in 1989, leaving the same day that martial law was imposed in the buildup to the events at Tiananmen Square. Taiwan has preserved Chinese culture better than China has; unlike China, it didn’t undergo a Cultural Revolution.

    I wish China would just shut up about Taiwan. Unfortunately, ever since the civil war, China has maintained the drumbeat about “liberating” Taiwan. For a while, Taiwan did the same thing with regards to China, until it became too fantastic. Chiang Kai-shek’s estate in Taiwan even featured a private chapel called “Victory Chapel”.

    The overwhelming majority of mainland Chinese will insist that Taiwan cannot be independent, even though it has had de facto independence for 70 years plus. Just in the past several years, however, I’ve encountered two or three people from mainland China who think Taiwan is none of China’s business. I was so shocked after decades of hearing the same propaganda that I instantly took a special liking to these people.

    norcal (a5428a)

  62. @61. You’re listening to yourself.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. Of course, these more enlightened people already had residency or citizenship in the U.S.

    norcal (a5428a)

  64. Trump: Open America by Easter, quarantine NY, NJ & parts of Connecticut?

    Go full Christie and close the GWB; or JFK and encircle Cuber, too, Captain, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. What an interesting comment, NorCal. Thanks for posting.

    Re China: I haven’t found a suggested number of Uighers who have died specifically from coronavirus, but I imagine it’s staggering, given the number of general population, non-Uigher deaths (that we know about).

    Dana (4fb37f)

  66. Trump: Open America by Easter, quarantine NY, NJ & parts of Connecticut?

    This is an interesting problem.

    I don’t think Trump really intends to open things back up. He just doesn’t want our perception of the crisis to be that it’s going to drag on and on. It’s easier to just keep asking us to hold out a little longer. Soon enough, if things are bad enough, we won’t question the economic damage.

    Trump’s right about cutting off the travel between states. I wish that weren’t necessary but both of my neighbors just got guests from out of town I recognize as family. Many of my friends have family visiting from out of town. Everyone wants to see their loved ones right now. Most think they can beat the odds.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  67. Dana,

    China would probably be all too glad to have the Uigher detention camps infested by coronavirus. It’s an easy way to explain a detainee’s death to any family members outside the camp.

    I wouldn’t trust the coronavirus numbers coming out of China. The government there has such a stranglehold on speech that they can get away with big lies. Look at how China recently kicked out reporters from the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. I think that Xi and company decided that since the virus disproportionately affects older people, and because China is facing a looming crisis of having too many old people due to its now-abandoned one-child policy, they might as well let the virus cull the herd.

    Also, I think the Chinese government is worried more about civil unrest from the economy tanking and lockdown measures than it is a percentage of old people dying.

    norcal (a5428a)

  68. A clarification. Xi and company “may” have made this kind of calculation. I’m just speculating.

    norcal (a5428a)

  69. @68. He has no idea what to do. It’s a day-to-day thing w/him. Waving bye-bye to a ship today was pathetic. Frankly, the state, county and local municipalities– and the local media outlets- ‘at street level’ – appear to managing this well– or as best as one can expect; they know their communities better than the ‘twit-ter-in-chief, a bloviating radio talker in Florida or a mouthy mickey-mouth TeeVee stooge sealed in his Sixth Avenue cable news studio at Fox. The locals and their requests for supplies, etc., seems reasoned and cautionary. It’s reassuring. The twits at the top– not so much.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Since this is an open thread, I’ll just note a new pastime I’ve stumbled on…

    I’m busting fraudulent Craig’s List auto ads. It’s fun and remarkably easy to spot these liars and thieves, and they are stealing the hard earn $$$ of people who are shopping for cars.

    If there’s any interest, I’ll elaborate.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  71. I’m interested, Ragspierre. I love craigslist stories.

    norcal (a5428a)

  72. norcal, I definitely agree. They didn’t enact draconian speech control for nothing… misleading people is the entire point of such efforts.

    It’s crystal clear that globalizing our infrastructure is a mistake. We see that with our medical supplies, but it’s a problem all over. But there’s a reason manufacturing moved, and it’s that it’s just too onerous to deal with many labor issues in our country. A reform to bring manufacturing back should find a way to make corporations want to come back. I don’t mean tax breaks, but perhaps a nationwide at-will and right to work law.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  73. Results announced for follow-up study on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin:

    https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

    Has anyone seen any other studies with these drugs, in particular ones that challenge its use for COVID-19? I have seen several physicians interviewed that are using this combination of drugs off-label, as well as many hospitals and physicians that are ordering it.

    Noteworthy, the control patients were much younger than the treated ones. Which is convenient since COVID19 is generally not dangerous to younger persons. The average age of the control group was 37, that of hydroxychloroquine-treated group 53 years old.

    In the EU Clinical Trial Register page, the study was described as evaluating PCR data on Day 1, Day 4, Day 7 and Day 14. However, the study show the data for Day 6, which is different than planned. Why did the authors not show the results on Day 7? Did the data on day 7 not look as good?

    In fact, the authors never showed the results of day 14 either. They also refused to share their secondary endpoint data, namely “the clinical effectiveness of treatment on time to apyrexia, normalization of respiratory rate, and average length of hospital stay and mortality”. Basically, it is none of anyone’s business to know if the therapy had any clinical benefit for the patients.

    Of particular note, control patients 6 and 8-16 appear to have been analyzed differently. Their Day 0 PCR values are not given as CT values (the number of cycles after which a PCR becomes positive, the lower the number, the more virus is present) but as POS/NEG, suggesting a different test was used. Several patients in the control group did not even have a PCR result on Day 6, so it is not clear how they were counted in the Day 6 result.

    Some control patients were tested only every second day, afterwards guessed to be positive, some were not tested at all on day 0. And then the authors simply changed the results in control patients between the “in press” and the final paper version

    It seems, the authors simply removed inconvenient patients from the analysis before publishing their study. They left online their previous evaluation though, which showed a slightly different result, compare here the day 6 time point

    From https://zenodo.org/record/3725560#.Xn81NCB7laR

    “In the background of their paper, Gautret et al referred to “an early clinical trial conducted in COVID-19 Chinese patients, [which] showed that chloroquine had a significant effect, both in terms of clinical outcome and viral clearance, when comparing to control groups”. There were two citations for this claim. The first was a letter7 that doesn’t report any trial data, but instead refers to a conference held in China in February, during which participants (“experts from government and regulatory authorities and organizers of clinical trials”) seemingly agreed that chloroquine was an efficacious treatment for COVID-19. The second cition (also included in the aforementioned letter) refers to a number of clinical trials registered in China, though many of these have now been suspended or closed, while the remaining trials are still recruiting (per their entries on http://www.chictr.org.cn as of March 21, 2020). Hence there are, to our knowledge, no other published reports of clinical trials testing the efficacy of chloroquine for COVID-19 treatment.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  74. Yes, Dustin. A thicket of regulations and labor unions is no way to entice business.

    Overall, I believe trade with China is a good thing, but it is prudent to maintain a domestic capacity in certain industries that have a direct bearing on U.S national security (steel, pharmaceuticals, etc.) so that China won’t have us over a barrel. As far as clothing and gadgets go, however, I love free trade. Blue jeans don’t cost any more now (in nominal terms!) than when I was a teenager, and if one adjusts for inflation, they are much cheaper.

    norcal (a5428a)

  75. An alternative to having a domestic capacity in certain industries it to get products from countries who won’t march in lock step with China.

    norcal (a5428a)

  76. Have to admit it’s sort of surreal to see a governor who called ICE ‘immoral’ and refused to send National Guard troops to defend the border now actively hunting invading New Yorkers.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  77. RE: Craig’s List…

    In addition to flagging ads, you can contact CL directly via https://lubbock.craigslist.org/contact?step=form&reqType=abuse_scam That address is for Lubbock, so you’ll need to improvise a bit.

    A few times, I’ve gotten frustrated enough that I just posted my own ad:

    [Picture of car]

    Beware of FRAUD – $2000 (Houston)

    There are some bargains on Craig’s List. Some listings are “too good”.
    Every vehicle driven in Texas has “badges”. Look for them.
    Ask to see and drive the car. If you can’t see it, that is a FRAUD.
    Over “padded” descriptions of vehicles are a clue.
    If you find two or more listings of the same car in different cities, that is a very bad sign.
    If you are redirected to eBay Motors from Craig’s List, it is a FRAUD. Don’t be a sucker!
    FLAG SUSPECTED FRAUD on Craig’s List.
    Go to “contacts” on Craig’s List and make a fraud report.
    Report fraud to the FTC and local police.

    Remember, nobody is protecting you. There are liars and thieves listing here.

    I’ve developed something of a correspondence with people who appreciated my efforts. One recommended a Facebook group that does the same thing. I don’t use Facebook (never have), and I’d have to get permission to pass along any information from my email correspondent.

    There are some interesting tells; grossly over-written ads that often contradict themselves (“this SUV lacks nothing” in reference to a $1200 pristine ’09 Honda coup), only two or three pictures, and adds that are from a different city.

    The scammers often send you an email response explaining that a family member owned the car, and they just died/were killed. Often they claim to be military in training and about to be deployed. I find these particularly despicable.

    They will try to get you to buy into “eBay’s protection plan”, which takes you away from CL. When you respond, you get a bogus “invoice” from “eBay” which suggests you send payment in the form of eBay cards (which are real AND very dangerous, since they can’t be canceled). The vapor-mobile (my term) will be shipped to you, and you’ll have X days to inspect it before the funds are released.

    As I say, I LOVE busting these thieves and liars. I wish I could reach them for some criminal prosecution.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  78. Interesting, Ragspierre. How do they pull off the fraud? Aren’t the funds held by a third party until one takes delivery of the vehicle?

    norcal (a5428a)

  79. New Mexico has ordered a 14-day quarantine on all arriving air passengers, and allows the state health department to forcibly quarantine persons it deems unlikely to self-quarantine. Not sure where that power comes from.

    Why we are still using air travel for anything but medical emergency flights is beyond me. And how long before state police are blocking the Interstates at the state line?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. A young person’s death rate of .05% is still not zero.

    Or course not, and there may be allergic or abnormal autoimmune reactions in anyone. Undiagnosed conditions might also be present. Pretty sure that some young person died of the flu this year. ANY virus is dangerous to some extent to everyone.

    Still, it does not mean that young people are “at-risk”, just that they are not immune.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. RE: Craig’s List

    There IS no car (hence my “vapor-mobile”). If there is a third party (and I know there is sometimes) they are part of the same ring. If you are gullible and send them the funds in the form they demand, it is IMMEDIATELY LIQUIDATED (i.e., put in the fraudster’s bank account.

    All they are really selling is a fraudulent story.

    I suspect there is really good money to be made by these slugs. Maybe REALLY, REALLY good money. And I doubt they are at much risk. A burner phone and anonymous email, plus some pictures is all you’d need.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  82. That last clip of the WHO feller being aggressively anti-Taiwan independence is remarkable.

    I did not read it that way at all. I read it as a dodge — he did not want to talk about Taiwan in any respect, so he first talked about “all parts of China”, then put the shiv in by mentioning Hong Kong, where China has done an awful job.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  83. Still, it does not mean that young people are “at-risk”, just that they are not immune.

    I’m gonna shrewdly guess there’s a real bad contradiction in thar…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  84. Oh. That was Hong Kong TV, in support of Taiwan. Wasn’t clear. I thought the reporter was mainland Chinese. I’ve been out of the loop for a few days.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. I’m gonna shrewdly guess there’s a real bad contradiction in thar…

    Wrongly, but “shrewdly”. You can get on an airplane and you are both not “at-risk” of dying in a fiery crash, and you are also not immune. Get it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. Lessee…

    Young people with no immunity are NOT “at risk” of dying or being debilitated for life, according to you.

    Nooooopa. Your brilliance eludes me.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  87. Let’s give Trump the full benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument (and just the sake of argument).

    Yes, and don’t forget that the WHO was saying the same thing until mid-January. Wanting a booming economy is not evil, after all. What *I* blame Trump for is after his ban on Chinese arrivals he rested on his laurels and did nothing further for a month, while telling everyone loudly that it was just the flu and letting the CDC bureaucracy engage in a turf war over testing (and then frack it up).

    Up until Feb 1, I cannot fault Trump. But his administration pissed away February almost entirely and that made the resulting containment effort doomed from the start.

    There were others who also effed up — CDC’s tests, De Blasio’s sanguine response and a general lack of leadership from governors or health authorities until TSHTF in March.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. Nooooopa. Your brilliance eludes me.

    I am getting tired of your constant ad hominums.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. “AT-RISK” means something rather stronger than “isn’t immortal” you know. Or do you?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. Wanting a booming economy is not evil, after all.

    Not in-and-of-itself, perhaps. It certainly CAN be, depending on what it is you are trading, and WHY you make that trade.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  91. “AT-RISK” means something rather stronger than “isn’t immortal” you know. Or do you?

    Now, see, THAT is a classical straw man fallacy. (There’s been no ad hominem, btw.)

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  92. That’s better. I have to remember to use the jerk filter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. @81. Why we are still using air travel for anything but medical emergency flights is beyond me.

    Moving the mails; air cargo; freight.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  94. RE: Craig’s List

    This ad is a good case-in-point. https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-2008-toyota-camry-xle-right/7100377422.html

    I got that same bogus ad (with variations) offering that same car photographed over those same red pavers with the gray and white house in background pulled down SEVERAL times after it was posted in three Texas cities.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  95. I have to remember to use the jerk filter.

    And THAT is ad hominem. If you can’t defend crap, don’t say crap.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  96. This just in:

    Trump announces N.J. travel advisory, backs off coronavirus quarantine proposal

    President Donald Trump announced an upcoming travel advisory for New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, but he backed off an earlier proposal to quarantine part of the region.

    After speaking with the states’ governors, a “quarantine will not be necessary,” he Tweeted Saturday night.

    More details will be released by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention later, he said.

    https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-announces-nj-travel-advisory-backs-off-quarantine-proposal-amid-coronavirus-spread.html

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  97. Let us all remember, also, that the devil is in the details. I live in NJ, and feel like we are already living in a quarantine. We hardly go out, and when we do, it is only to drive to stores in our town or the neighboring towns. I don’t even drive to see my parents, who live about 80 miles away.

    OTOH, shipments seem to be continuing unabated, including food, medicines and other goods. (At Trader Joe’s, my neighbor told me, they were confident they were receiving shipments, and stopped limiting sales of items, except for toilet paper.)

    So not clear to me what the difference is between a “quarantine” and a “travel advisory.” I supposed the former is mandatory and the latter advisory, nothing is stopping me from getting in my car and driving to another state.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  98. What *I* blame Trump for is after his ban on Chinese arrivals he rested on his laurels and did nothing further for a month, while telling everyone loudly that it was just the flu and letting the CDC bureaucracy engage in a turf war over testing (and then frack it up).

    Up until Feb 1, I cannot fault Trump. But his administration pissed away February almost entirely and that made the resulting containment effort doomed from the start.

    I agree, Kevin. Trump had a good start with the travel restrictions and he should get credit for that. Other politicians might have been afraid to do that.

    But then … nothing, followed by efforts to wish it away or find a magic drug. We all want it to go away but he is the one person in charge of how America responds. Other politicians might have done equally bad but they aren’t President. This is his job and he isn’t up to it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. What I continue to find amazing is how China managed to contain the spread of the virus so quickly within China, but somehow allowed it to go everywhere else in the world. Even into Hong Kong, which it claims is China, too. It’s almost as if they wanted it to go there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. Best wishes to you and your family, Bored Lawyer.

    DRJ (15874d)

  101. And thank you for the news and update.

    DRJ (15874d)

  102. Is it contained in China? I doubt any info we get from there is accurate. It seems more likely most people got it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  103. One more comment. The word “epicenter” has been used to describe NY as the epicenter of the coronavirus attack. That seems to me misplaced, as it implies it is the source from which the problem emanates (as the term is used for earthquakes).

    Seems like I am not the first to notice this:

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/28/coronavirus-united-states-epicenter-new-york-152716

    Is ‘Epicenter’ the Wrong Word for New York?

    Disease experts have started to worry about this. I checked in with Alison Galvani, a professor of epidemiology at Yale University, who felt that such terminological concerns are warranted. “I think the problem with ‘epicenter’ is a connotation that there a singular location that is seeding cases to the rest of the world,” she told me. “It is particularly problematic if it leads to a sense that control measures are only necessary at the ‘epicenter.’” The entire country should be exercising caution and limiting interaction as far as possible.”

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  104. Best wishes to you and your family, Bored Lawyer.

    TY, best wishes to all here. Right now we are fine, but keep hearing about deaths, just heard about someone’s father who died from it last week and the funeral was Friday.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  105. Let us all remember, also, that the devil is in the details. I live in NJ, and feel like we are already living in a quarantine. We hardly go out, and when we do, it is only to drive to stores in our town or the neighboring towns. I don’t even drive to see my parents, who live about 80 miles away.

    I do the same in New Mexico, with far less contagion. It seems only prudent. I think that many younger people have been blase about this, and we will see the virus explode over the next few weeks. ALL I CAN DO is make sure that *I* stay inside. I hope that once people get this they become immune, so there is some hope that a herd immunity will develop. Not the path I would have chosen, but it seems to be the path we are on.

    OTOH, you can buy toilet paper? I haven’t seen any since February.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. Rhode Island is acting like Mississippi circa 1964.

    urbanleftbehind (a74ec1)

  107. I doubt any info we get from there is accurate. No idea. There could be open pit mines being filled in with bodies for all we know.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. OTOH, you can buy toilet paper? I haven’t seen any since February.

    Yes, but it’s rationed, one per customer. My wife went to Target last week and bought a package of 72 rolls. Hopefully that will last awhile.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  109. Rhode Island is acting like Mississippi circa 1964.

    California circa 1935

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. My wife went to Target last week and bought a package of 72 rolls. Hopefully that will last awhile.

    That’s a bit greedy when people can’t fine ONE roll in other places. Whoever packaged it like that now should spend a night in the box.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  111. I’m telling you, the olds take advantage of their preferred hours and clean out the TP, hand-San, and Clorox wipes by 9.30am. I know one fortyish dude who drives old ladies to the store (multiple single-rider trips, not a “pool”) – you should have heard the snow leopard jokes we had for him.

    It could also be an illustration of why, during normal times, clearance finds and larger sizes are hard to find in
    stores closer to cities…employees and relations clean those out before they hit the floor.

    urbanleftbehind (a74ec1)

  112. Kevin 109,

    Or cremations.

    Not to be too macabre, but our paper said cremations aren’t required with coronavirus. I am ignorant about the risks of burial with or without embalming vs cremation. Is that right?

    DRJ (15874d)

  113. I am sorry about any death, Bored Lawyer, and I agree that New York isn’t the epicenter. Wuhan is.

    DRJ (15874d)

  114. The idea of the bidet seems to recommend itself as rather civilized…now practical…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  115. Trump’s missing six weeks.

    DRJ (15874d)

  116. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    __ _

    The Washington Post
    @washingtonpost
    Perspective: Homeschooling during the coronavirus will set back a generation of children
    __ _

    Professor worries students will share ‘controversial’ recorded lectures as classes move online

    https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=14554
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  117. OTOH, you can buy toilet paper? I haven’t seen any since February.

    That’s a long time to have to improvise…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. @119
    Not when you have a package of 72 rolls.

    Several brands offer(ed) rolls packaged in large quantities. Good I suppose for very large families and preppers.

    Kishnevi (2009b0)

  119. Just as I thought. I looked up Trump’s statements on the bill that he signed, and Trump made the standard Presidential reservations – also made by Bush and Obama – regarding Congressional overreach into the President’s constitutional powers.

    IOW, another bullshit attack on Trump by the Fake news. The question isn’t are they inaccurate, its when do they EVER get it right? With Trump the answer is about 10 percent of the time.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  120. Incredibly people are still hoarding food and TP. Our local grocery store is limiting people to 8 cans of a particular soup or dry goods product. I guess you never know when you’ll need 8 boxes of oatmeal, or 8 bags of Cheetos.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  121. Six of the Guardian’s self-numbered top ten stories anti-Trump. Not one on Chinese culpability.

    Related:

    “ President Trump’s order to halt all travel from China on January 31, for example, was met with hollers of xenophobia from the loudest corners of mainstream media. Those cries have since been memory-holed — quite literally, in some cases (Vox) — but it’s worth revisiting the where the worst actors in media stood when this pandemic started. In fact, it was the very next day after Trump’s executive order that mainstream media outlets published stories downplaying the threat as merely another xenophobic reaction to foreigners, just like they’ve done with Trump’s position on immigration at the southern border.

    The night that President Trump issued his order, Vox tweeted, ‘Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No.’ That tweet was then deleted with a correction earlier this week. Lenny Bernstein at the Washington Post wrote on January 31, ‘Get a grippe [sic], America. The flu is a much bigger threat than Coronavirus, for now.’ The next day, the Washington Post published an op-ed titled, ‘Past epidemics prove fighting coronavirus with travel bans is a mistake.’ In what appeared to be a full court press against the president’s order, the paper published another piece on January 31, ‘How our brains make coronavirus seem scarier than it is.’ On February 3, they hit us with another op-ed headlined, ‘Why we should be wary of an aggressive government response to coronavirus’, arguing it would lead to more stigmatization of marginalized populations.

    On January 29, in concert with the Washington Post, BuzzFeed News tweeted, ‘Don’t worry about the coronavirus. Worry about the flu.’ Just a few days before President Trump’s Oval Office address to the nation, CNN’s Anderson Cooper said on air that ‘if you’re freaked out about the Coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu.’ And then shortly after Trump’s address, CNN’s Brian Stelter commented that ‘Sean Hannity and Fox were going to celebrate the travel ban while evading the scourge of community spread within the US.’ CNN then published online in late February that racist attacks against Asians (only of which a handful in the United States have been authenticated and documented) spread faster than the coronavirus.“

    https://spectator.us/early-coronavirus-coverage-lazy-media-thirst-political-correctness/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  122. BL,

    I feel it’s a little different than you state. I see people not taking this seriously, shopping constantly, and just acting like they’re on vacation. I’ve also seen stores shut down due to one person contracting the virus. Furthermore, I know there are supply chain disruptions and that deliveries are incomplete and well behind schedule.

    That said, with the exception of paper products and sanitizer, most items are available, just in limited varieties and quantities.

    NJRob (b810a0)

  123. Not when you have a package of 72 rolls.

    Kishnevi… Kevin didn’t say he hadn’t seen it on the store shelves, he said he hadn’t seen it… like it was a long, lost friend… which by now, it may be.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  124. Several brands offer(ed) rolls packaged in large quantities. Good I suppose for very large families and preppers.

    Or those afflicted with IBS.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  125. “ Our local grocery store is limiting people to 8 cans of a particular soup or dry goods product.”

    The empty soup shelf at the market was one of things that surprised me on my first trip shopping after Panic Friday.

    All I wanted was chicken stock because we use it for everything from goulash to taco meat and Spanish rice.

    We make our soups at home and freeze them without much loss of taste IMO. Now we’re making our own chicken stock when we are lucky enough to find chicken.

    But I can’t make tom kha chicken and coconut soup. I can’t get close to matching our local thai joint.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  126. Our local markets are out of flour. TP can be found, but not flour.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  127. But I can’t make tom kha chicken and coconut soup. I can’t get close to matching our local thai joint.

    When you can find chicken, it’ll probably be frozen. Try letting it thaw in the bathroom.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  128. It’s interesting to hear what other states and cities are like and what residents are facing. Even grocery stores. It’s good to have a broader picture of things. It can certainly make us more grateful for what we have, or learn ways of making up for the things we don’t have.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  129. “ When you can find chicken, it’ll probably be frozen. Try letting it thaw in the bathroom.”

    ^5!

    Aw cr*p no, wait, elbow bump.

    Wait wait wait, even the bump sounds stupid, even if you have 12’ arms to maintain 6’ breathing separation……

    I got it!

    [salutes from a safe distance]
    __ _

    This didn’t occur to me till just now but…..

    When they arrest someone for violating a stay at home order, do they take them to jail or do they take them home?
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  130. LOL…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. When they arrest someone for violating a stay at home order, do they take them to jail or do they take them home?

    Out to pasture…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  132. OTOH, you can buy toilet paper? I haven’t seen any since February.

    They do at Costco in WA State, but you have to stand in line to get in the store (they’re limiting occupancy to 250), and you can buy one big Kirkland Signature package, and only one. They have “Buy 1″ limits for other items, but it’s all quite orderly.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  133. According to Facebook and Instapundit, David Lat is out of the ICU.

    Good news.

    NJRob (b810a0)

  134. That sure is good news, NJRob. We need to hear some good news these days.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  135. “ David Lat is out of the ICU”

    Great news, extra great because he got slammed pretty hard.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  136. @108/111. Great Britain, 1777

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. @99. Sounds like Southern California.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  138. @117.Trump’s missing six weeks.

    On a few cylinders, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  139. Nooooopa. Your brilliance eludes me.

    I have warned you about this, Ragspierre. I don’t intend to warn you again. I moderated MAOA and I’ll moderate you if I have to.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  140. China’s efforts to blame coronavirus on a US army delegation to Wuhan infuriate No. 10 as Boris Johnson’s advisers say Beijing’s statistics on its cases could be downplayed by a factor of 40

    Mr Johnson has been warned by scientific advisers that China’s officially declared statistics on the number of cases of coronavirus could be ‘downplayed by a factor of 15 to 40 times’. And No 10 believes China is seeking to build its economic power during the pandemic with ‘predatory offers of help’ countries around the world.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8163707/Chinas-efforts-blame-coronavirus-army-delegation-Wuhan-infuriate-No-10.html

    _____________________________________________

    Thousands Of Urns, Cremation Stats Spur Questions Of Coronavirus’ Toll On China, Report Says

    New cremation statistics reportedly from inside Wuhan combined with photos of thousands of urns delivered to funeral homes is fueling speculation about the true scale of the coronavirus outbreak in communist China.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/thousands-of-urns-cremation-stats-spur-questions-of-coronavirus-toll-on-china-report-says

    _________________________________

    We are going to discover, in the end, that things in China were A LOT worse than we have been told, and there was a coverup. Trump may have been bumbling and lost six weeks, but it is looking more and more like China is guilty of malfeasance. And that affected the world, not just the U.S.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  141. Good news about David Lat. Thank you for the news and the link, NJ Rob.

    DRJ (15874d)

  142. Communist nations hide the truth, they manipulate the truth, they lie. Communist propaganda is not a surprise to anyone except Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  143. Coronavirus in New Orleans through the eyes of one nurse:

    “You spend hours in your (patient’s) room gowned up head to toe sweating and not able to breathe. Then you realize…this is it. I can’t save this patient anymore. You sit there and say your goodbyes while they pass without family or loved ones because nobody is allowed in the hospital for everyone’s safety. You are their only contact and hope. You sit and watch as the (heart rate) and (blood pressure) can’t read anymore. You lost your patient to COVID19. You don’t even know how this virus works but you watch as it kills your patient,” she says.

    Read it all.

    DRJ (15874d)

  144. I should add a warning. It is hard to read the second link. Think twice before you do.

    DRJ (15874d)

  145. Make of it what you will, but Italian Communist publications were used by the KGB’s Detzinformatsiya* unit to infiltrate fake news into the legitimate media. Considering the extent to which President Trump’s Coronavirus was infiltrated to the West by way of Italy….

    *(yes, that was the name on the door)

    nk (1d9030)

  146. @ norcal ,

    Also, I think the Chinese government is worried more about civil unrest from the economy tanking and lockdown measures than it is a percentage of old people dying.

    You’re right to think that:

    Students have flooded social media to organize donations for Chinese doctors battling the coronavirus epidemic. Workers have marched in the streets to demand compensation for weeks of unemployment during citywide lockdowns. Young citizen journalists have taken to YouTube to call for free speech.

    The coronavirus outbreak has mobilized young people in China, sounding a call to action for a generation that had shown little resistance to the ruling Communist Party’s agenda.

    For much of their lives, many young Chinese have been content to relinquish political freedoms as long as the party upheld its end of an unspoken authoritarian bargain by providing jobs, stability and upward mobility. Now, the virus has exposed the limits of that trade-off.

    The report goes on to suggests that if the State can get the economy up and running quickly while the U.S. is still struggling through, than that stir a nationalistic pride. But if the pandemic continues and stalls their economy, that would fuel the resentment of young people.

    Already, they’re mobilizing:

    Some…have set up “cyber-graveyards” to compile news and commentary related to the virus that have been scrubbed off the internet by government censors. At several universities, students organized mass campaigns on social media to solicit donations for hospitals in Wuhan, posting testimonials from doctors and nurses describing a lack of supplies.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  147. WHO doesn’t recognize Israel, has them reflected as Occupied Territory, or something along those lines.

    Untrue.

    Dave (1bb933)

  148. “ Communist propaganda is not a surprise to anyone except Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.”

    There were at least a few others. Found these in a minute but there were a lot more:

    NYTimes – China Bought The West Time, The West Squandered It

    NBC News – As US Struggles To Stem Coronavirus, China Asserts Itself As Global Leader

    NBC News – Coronavirus, China kept me under quarantine, I felt safer there than back in the US
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  149. WHO is an organ of the United Nations, which I think people forget.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  150. The media, especially the NYT, has fallen for Communist propaganda over the years. I am not making excuses for the media. Are you trying to excuse Presidential candidate Sanders and actual President Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  151. What I continue to find amazing is how China managed to contain the spread of the virus so quickly within China, but somehow allowed it to go everywhere else in the world. Even into Hong Kong, which it claims is China, too. It’s almost as if they wanted it to go there.

    Hong Kong had almost no cases until about 10 days ago after they loosened travel restrictions.

    Graph.

    Dave (1bb933)

  152. To be clear, harkin, I am talking about political leaders. I realize there are people who don’t know about propaganda but our leaders should, don’t you think?

    DRJ (15874d)

  153. Thanks for the info, Dana. Those Chinese workers marching in the streets better be careful. In 1989, the protests in Beijing were full of bravado, until they weren’t.

    norcal (a5428a)

  154. “ To be clear, harkin, I am talking about political leaders. I realize there are people who don’t know about propaganda but our leaders should, don’t you think?”

    Certainly but since you didn’t say ‘political leaders’ but ‘anyone’, I hope you see how i

    “ Are you trying to excuse Presidential candidate Sanders and actual President Trump?”

    I have no idea how you could possibly travel from ‘there were a few others’, clearly implying agreement, to coming away that I disagreed or made excuses. Both Sanders and Trump are out of their depth.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  155. First comment should have ended “how I read it”
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  156. norcal,

    A pandemic decimating the population coupled with the crash of their economy would be a explosive catalyst for protest and disruption. It would be party officials worst nightmare.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  157. Good point. I was not clear. I’m sorry, harkin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  158. No sorries needed for me.

    I appreciate the effort, check that, incredible effort, you, Patt, Dana etc. put in to running this blog, even if my specific style of input does not reflect it adequately.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  159. With each passing day, doctors, nurses, and healthcare workers are at an ever-increasing rate of risk:

    51 Italian doctors who tested positive for #coronavirus have died – Italian Association of Doctors.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  160. Correct, Dana. It would be a nightmare for Xi and the gang.

    norcal (a5428a)

  161. The question isn’t are they inaccurate, its when do they EVER get it right? With Trump the answer is about 10 percent of the time.

    It’s always surreal to see Trump defenders claiming to be offended that someone has been “inaccurate” about Trump, while they are never, ever critical of Trump’s profligate lies, fables, contradictions, inanities, etc.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  162. “ With each passing day, doctors, nurses, and healthcare workers are at an ever-increasing rate of risk:”
    _

    Amen. My sister is a 64 year old ICU RN, close to retirement and understandably nervous as heck. She also had to fight for more masks just a few weeks ago. They actually told her she was using too many. The same doctors who told staff the second week of March that common flu was worse.

    There are also a lot of over-50 doctors and nurses out there, especially in govt hospitals if my observations on related projects is any indication.

    We needed more doctors before this pandemic hit, we’re going to need a heck of a lot more very soon.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  163. It’s always surreal to see Trump defenders claiming to be offended that someone has been “inaccurate” about Trump, while they are never, ever critical of Trump’s profligate lies, fables, contradictions, inanities, etc.

    Every mid-level Chinese bureaucrat should be scrupulously honest 100% of the time, but if the most powerful man in the world tells unvarnished, self-serving lies non-stop: “So?”

    Dave (1bb933)

  164. Another look at the death cult’s smear campaign against Dr. Fauci:

    Medical Expert Who Corrects Trump Is Now a Target of the Far Right

    Dave (1bb933)

  165. @151. “Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus … I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.” – Rush Limbaugh, ‘The Rush Limbaugh Show’ 2-24-2020

    =yawn=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. With each passing day, doctors, nurses, and healthcare workers are at an ever-increasing rate of risk:
    51 Italian doctors who tested positive for #coronavirus have died – Italian Association of Doctors.
    Dana (4fb37f) — 3/28/2020 @ 10:45 pm

    The nurses and doctors going into hospitals, getting cheers from neighbors, has a slightly 9/11 feel to it.

    Dave, I know I am always naive about others, and always getting annoyed when people are people, but I do wish the press would see the big picture. That NYT article is just retail politics as usual. ‘Some say’ such and such. ‘Some conservatives on twitter said’ such and such.

    Everyone is acting like this is an unprecedented crisis. People are going broke. But the press can’t act like this is a crisis too? I am all for scrutiny, but there’s a lot of news to report that doesn’t jeopardize the success of Fauci and Trump working together right now. They could easily print that story in three months with a lot less risk. We all know this administration loses a lot of professionals. The NYT doesn’t mind if it fails, but they should.

    I know this is probably an overreaction but I believe they want the drama.

    Dustin (bb83f8)

  167. Groper joe tells the media to vigorously investigate (smear) tara reade as a russian asset.

    rota (4e20f3)

  168. Xi has the politburo upset in how he has handled the china flu pandemic. The unrest of the people and the downturn in the economy are just two reasons they might 86 him.

    mg (8cbc69)

  169. 89. Up until Feb 1, I cannot fault Trump. But his administration pissed away February almost entirely and that made the resulting containment effort doomed from the start.
    With the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, a list of actions that should have been taken, is strangely absent.

    I have asked repeatedly for recomendations President Trump has refused to implement.

    I have been forced to lower the standard to lame Monday morning quarterbacking. So with the new standard, what exactly should the President have ordered. Those would be things the President would have been smarter than the CDC, to see and implement.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  170. Patterico, I am again confused.

    Kevin was condescending in his comment…”Get it?”…when no response was even called for. I was very measured in my answer.

    What he’d written was downright irrational (two people in a plane are not “at risk of a fiery death” and they are “immune”). Anyone who flies is at risk, and nobody is immune from death in a crash unless they’re in a M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.

    What the hell was I supposed to say?

    Given that I am a source of aggravation to you (and Kevin is apparently peachy) I will moderate myself. I don’t understand.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  171. Dave (1bb933) — 3/29/2020 @ 12:15 am

    Why is any effort being put into reconstructing the credibility of CCP functionaries? I agree the Trump should get things right but I don’t see the point behind adding excuses for CCP malfeasance or propaganda into that argument.

    frosty (f27e97)

  172. I agree the Trump should get things right but I don’t see the point behind adding excuses for CCP malfeasance or propaganda into that argument.

    I am against dishonesty no matter who is guilty of it.

    I just find it frustrating that Trump’s misguided supporters expect everybody in the world *except him* to be honest.

    It seems obvious to me that we should hold our own leaders, and the president most of all, to a *higher* standard than some faceless apparatchiks halfway around the world.

    Dave (1bb933)

  173. Since this is an open thread, I’m going to lighten things up a bit, or maybe not.

    While we’re under home confinement, many of us are spending out time watching more movies on Netflix or Amazon. I’d like to recommend one, Richard Jewell, directed by Clint Eastwood and written by Billy Ray (Amazon Prime, $5.99). Watched it yesterday, and while it flopped at the box office (worst opening weekend ever for an Eastwood film), I thought it was really good.

    The film tells the story of the bombing at Centennial Park during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta and the subsequent vilification by the media and the FBI of the heroic security guard who first noticed a suspicious package and alerted authorities.

    It is infuriating what the media and the FBI did to Jewel and his poor mother, especially the FBI. Why did they suspect Jewell had planted the bomb himself, so that he could discover it and be proclaimed a hero? Because they assumed he fit the profile of a lone bomber, and because of a similar incident in Los Angeles in 1984, when a police officer defused a bomb and was proclaimed a hero, until it was later revealed that he had planted the bomb himself. Jewell fit the profile, because was an overweight failed wannabe cop who lived with his mother.

    But that’s not profiling, not the way the BAU does it. That’s speculating. You analyze the crime scene and develop a profile of the perpetrator, based on the evidence. You don’t focus on one suspect and attach a profile to him. (While not mentioned in the film, this faulty approach allowed the real bomber, Eric Rudolph, to go undetected for two years and detonate three other bombs, two at abortion clinics and one at a lesbian bar. He was a member of a radical anti-Semitic, homophobic, fundamentalist Christian organization, though he denies it in his confession.)

    One the Atlanta field office focused all their attention on Jewell, they ignored all evidence that exonerated him. It’s called confirmation bias and contradiction denial. They pursued Jewell relentlessly, ransacked his apartment, tried to trick him into waiving his rights and confessing, to the point of even trying to manufacture evidence against him. When it became clear that Jewell could not have planted the bomb and also make the two phone calls to 911, they claimed he had a homosexual accomplice. That’s terrifying.

    However, what happened in the media is mortifying. The story became international news. Jewell was vilified, ridiculed, castigated, and condemned. Reporters hounded him and his mother mercilessly, surrounding his house, following him everywhere. It became a frenzy of false reports and character assassination.

    During his final interview with the Atlanta field office, Jewell asks, “Do you have a case against me? Have you found any evidence against me?” He takes their silence as a no, so he stands up and leaves. When the FBI agent delivers a formal letter stating he was no longer the subject of investigation to Jewell and his lawyer, with no apology or regrets, he says, “I still think you’re as guilty as hell.” See? Confirmation bias and contradiction denial, based on false assumptions and no evidence whatsoever, just pure unfounded, misguided belief.

    In the end, two years later, the lawyer finds Jewell working as a desk sergeant at a police station outside of Atlanta, and tells him, “They got the guy.”

    I thought it was a really good film. My mother thought it was excellent, because it picks on two of things she hates the most, bad policing and media defamation. She had dreams about Richard Jewell last night. This morning, she said, “What they did to that poor man is inexcusable.” Yeah. “And they never apologize for anything!” No, they don’t. But if it’s any consolation, I told her, Jewell did sue the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the Washington Post, the New York Times, and CNN. The latter three settled for a sum total of about $1.2 million, but the court ruled the Atlanta Journal Constitution was not responsible for it’s reporting, because it was accurate. That pissed her off even more. “1.2 million, that’s it? Randy Weaver got $6 million!” Well, there were deaths involved at Ruby Ridge, his wife and son. Character assassination comes at a much cheaper price. “What about CBS and Tom Brokaw?” Jewell didn’t sue them.

    She grabbed her morning cup of coffee and stomped upstairs, shaking her head in anger and disgust. This movie hit her hard. I give it 4 stars; my mother gives it 5, so it comes highly recommended.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  174. Dave, I know I am always naive about others, and always getting annoyed when people are people, but I do wish the press would see the big picture. That NYT article is just retail politics as usual. ‘Some say’ such and such. ‘Some conservatives on twitter said’ such and such.

    Isn’t it shocking that “politics as usual” means a certain influential cult wages a vicious smear campaign against our nation’s expert (who is also the world’s expert) on infectious diseases in the middle of a global pandemic?

    Is that sort of thing happening elsewhere in the world? If not, isn’t it right to be worried about it, and talk about who is putting America uniquely at risk by flouting common sense medical advice?

    Dave (1bb933)

  175. An infant in Chicago died Saturday after testing positive for COVID-19 – becoming the youngest person in Illinois to die after contracting the novel coronavirus.

    Gov. J.B. Pritzker announced the child’s death during a press conference Saturday. An investigation is being conducted to determine the exact cause of death and determine whether the infant had any underlying health conditions, the governor said.

    “I know how difficult this news can be, especially about this very young child,” the governor said at his daily news conference Saturday, according to the Chicago Tribune. “Upon hearing it, I admit that I was immediately shaken. It’s appropriate for any of us to grieve today.”

    Certainly not “at risk”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  176. No, Trump doesn’t have the authority or power to quarantine states.

    First and foremost, states currently retain power to decide who stays home and for how long. The 10th Amendment expressly reserves to the states those powers not delegated to the federal government. As the Supreme Court has explained, the Framers “rejected the concept of a central government that would act … through the States, and instead designed a system in which the State and Federal Governments would exercise concurrent authority over the people.” The 10th Amendment codifies the U.S. system of dual sovereignty and makes clear that, although the states surrendered many of their powers to the federal government, they retain “a residuary and inviolable sovereignty” over those powers not assigned to the federal government.
    Among the powers generally reserved to the states is the authority to quarantine individuals and otherwise protect public health. The regulation of the health and safety of individuals “is primarily, and historically, a matter of local concern,” the Supreme Court has held. Accordingly, “[s]tates traditionally have had great latitude under their police powers to legislate as to the protection of the lives, limbs, health, comfort, and quiet of all persons.”

    Other than recording movies while Starz is free, I’m watching Mrs. Maisel, and the current season is just as funny as the previous ones. Great casting.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  177. What he’d written was downright irrational (two people in a plane are not “at risk of a fiery death” and they are “immune”). Anyone who flies is at risk, and nobody is immune from death in a crash unless they’re in a M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.

    What the hell was I supposed to say?

    Given that I am a source of aggravation to you (and Kevin is apparently peachy) I will moderate myself. I don’t understand.

    If by moderating yourself you mean you will find a more measured and polite way to respond to comments that puzzles you, I applaud the intention.

    Speaking of “at risk” youth, please be advised that the new politically correct term in California is “at promise.” I kid you not. It’s a state law that the term “at risk” when used for juveniles is to be replaced with “at promise.” I guess the more crimes you commit as a kid, the more “at promise” you are.

    So I guess I find Trump’s approach to the coronavirus “promising” after all!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  178. WHO doesn’t recognize Israel, has them reflected as Occupied Territory, or something along those lines.

    Untrue.

    Dave (1bb933)

    Yes, they do: https://mobile.twitter.com/candicemalcolm/status/1242932058521055232

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. You got suckered by confirmation bias, Colonel. I checked it and it was bullshit.

    After posting this:

    I saw this:

    To which my reaction is:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  180. This should be an object lesson in skepticism and verifying sources.

    BUT THE MEDIA!!!!1!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  181. “ Why is any effort being put into reconstructing the credibility of CCP functionaries?”

    They’re just following the playbook.

    As Trump’s Poll Numbers Rise, Media Begin Censoring Press Conferences

    Media continue to make their coverage choices based on whether they believe it will harm or help Trump.

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/26/as-trumps-poll-numbers-rise-media-begin-censoring-press-conferences/
    _

    Coronavirus Response: Hospitals Rated Best, News Media Worst

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/300680/coronavirus-response-hospitals-rated-best-news-media-worst.aspx
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  182. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 3/29/2020 @ 6:58 am

    That movie was fantastic. It seems almost made up as I wouldn’t have believed our government could do that to her own people. Then I remember the past 10 years and realize our government is just a dog with a bone.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  183. I thought the PLO and the left only wanted to push Israel into the sea, not all the way to Europe.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  184. “at promise.” What does that even mean?!

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  185. No, Trump doesn’t have the authority or power to quarantine states.

    in your opinion. Maybe you can get a job as a DNC-media “fact-checker”, they constantly mistake their opinion for fact.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  186. Medical people are at risk, if they’re around people with the virus. Otherwise, not. further, look up the stats. Rate of hospitalization is extremely low, and death rate for those hospitalized is only 10-15%. increased testing of medicos should cut that down even further.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  187. Jewell is on my “To see List” along with 1917. Missed them in theaters but dvd’s will be available.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  188. Two headlines appearing next to each other right now:

    Politico: “Mnuchin: Virus task force unanimously shunned Trump’s quarantine idea”

    New York Post: “White House coronavirus task force defends Trump’s NY quarantine proposal”

    Both are time-stamped one hour ago.

    DRJ (15874d)

  189. they constantly mistake their opinion for fact.

    Trump constantly mistakes whatever he wishes to be true or whatever serves his interests at the moment or whatever fantasies his disordered brain concocts for fact — even if it flatly contradicts what he said a few minutes earlier. So it strains credulity that his defenders might be morally offended by dishonesty or “inaccuracy.”

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  190. The White House and the task force could resolve this with a statement clarifying their joint position, but they can’t because it would hurt Trump. Giving us consistent advice does not seem to be the top priority.

    DRJ (15874d)

  191. Two headlines appearing next to each other right now:
    Politico: “Mnuchin: Virus task force unanimously shunned Trump’s quarantine idea”
    New York Post: “White House coronavirus task force defends Trump’s NY quarantine proposal”

    Both are time-stamped one hour ago.

    Both can be true, they were privately telling him it’s a terrible idea. For all the reasons that it is unworkable. AND publicly defend Trump’s off the cuff spouting of nonsense. This is actually just a standard process in the age of Trump. He says dumb things not based in fact all the time, gets turned privately, then they defend his wrong position. This is just a bit more critical and public.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  192. Thanks, I should’ve checked beyond her media credentials.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  193. Appears to be legit: Research study in France

    The study, which was led by renowned Didier Raoult​ M.D/Ph.D in Marseille, France, showed that 100% of patients that received a combination of the two anti-malaria drugs tested negative and were virologically cured within 6 days of treatment.

    bendover (aa5a9b)

  194. Coronavirus cure: French researchers completed new additional study on 80 patients, results show a combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin to be effective in treating COVID-19

    https://techstartups.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-cure-new-results-french-study-shows-combination-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil-azithromycin-successfully-treated-80-coronavirus-patients-significant-dr/

    This is still very small and without a control. But it is a glimmer of hope.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  195. “ No, Trump doesn’t have the authority or power to quarantine states.”

    I never considered this situation before.

    Found this on wiki:

    “ The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states:

    (1) the right to enter one state and leave another (an inherent right with historical support from the Articles of Confederation),

    (2) the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the “Privileges and Immunities” clause in Article IV, § 2), and

    (3) (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native-born citizens (this is protected by the 14th Amendment’s Privileges or Immunities Clause; citing the majority opinion in the Slaughter-House Cases, Justice Stevens said, “the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment . . . has always been common ground that this Clause protects the third component of the right to travel.”).”
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  196. Thanks, I should’ve checked beyond her media credentials.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/29/2020 @ 9:44 am

    But still CH – doesn’t it seem … unusual … that a country (Isreal) located in the middle east is grouped with European countries, not with the rest of the countries in the middle east?

    bendover (aa5a9b)

  197. “ Jewell is on my “To see List”

    Mine too. The media campaign to discredit it and concentrate on one minor plot device while ignoring the main point because they feared it would stoke the very real Fake News aspects of Jewell’s ordeal was hilarious, yet apparently effective.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  198. Cuomo at his presser reaffirmed his belief that a travel ban would be illegal/unconstitutional. He spent a good chunk of the rest of the presser taking a bow for having shut down any number of activities via fiat. He was oh-so-proud that he was among the first, if not the first, to take such actions. The Rule of ?

    He later chided Congress for having the temerity to trample his state’s ability to re-constitute Medicaid. How dare Congress assign money in the virus bill by including language restricting use of grant money to fighting the virus! A beauty, this one is.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  199. Bored Lawyer – I would argue that the outcome of not treating them using this regimen is the “control group” They are so confident of their study that they issued the following:

    “In conclusion, we confirm the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine associated with azithromycin in the treatment of COVID-19 and its potential effectiveness in the early impairment of contagiousness. Given the urgent therapeutic need to manage this disease with effective and safe drugs and given the negligible cost of both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, we believe that other teams should urgently evaluate this therapeutic strategy both to avoid the spread of the disease and to treat patients before severe irreversible respiratory complications take hold,” the team concluded.

    bendover (aa5a9b)

  200. The study, which was led by renowned Didier Raoult​ M.D/Ph.D in Marseille, France, showed that 100% of patients that received a combination of the two anti-malaria drugs tested negative and were virologically cured within 6 days of treatment.

    No, the study did NOT say that, especially when 1.5% of the patients died, some are still in ICU, so no. Again, Didier Raoult has been busted faking results…not once, not twice, continuously for decades, including this study.

    See, the response at 75.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  201. This is actually just a standard process in the age of Trump. He says dumb things not based in fact all the time, gets turned privately, then they defend his wrong position. This is just a bit more critical and public.

    I agree. Still bad, though. It would make sense to see that in a dictatorship but not in a free nation.

    DRJ (15874d)

  202. Is MAOA back as bendover?

    DRJ (15874d)

  203. 199… It does appear unusual, yes. I agree that anyone who has promoted info that proves to be false (e.g., via Twitter) should comb through their posts and correct themselves and apologize when appropriate.

    That would keep a lot of folks busy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  204. “ doesn’t it seem … unusual … that a country (Isreal) located in the middle east is grouped with European countries, not with the rest of the countries in the middle east?”
    _

    Imagine a sports reference book listing all of Sandy Koufax’s stats under the Negro Leagues instead of MLB because he’s a jew. Then criticizing someone for saying they don’t recognize Koufax.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  205. MAOA was also Jenny from Iowa for a while too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  206. Colonel Klink

    Just so every is aware – The 1.5% fatality rate CK refers to in his post was an 86 year old patient who was in the advanced stages of the disease. They literally would have to bring him back from the dead.

    What this study appears to show me is that when people that have contracted the disease, and their condition has deteriorated to the point that they require hospitalization, the administration of two relatively innocuous drugs, both significantly improves their chance and rate of recovery.

    bendover (aa5a9b)

  207. They literally would have to bring him back from the dead.

    A peeve of mine involves the use of “literally” which literally only has one meaning.

    Hence, we would leave the sphere of medicine and enter the realm of religion.

    http://patterico.com/2020/03/29/sunday-music-bach-cantata-bwv-156/

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  208. 193.The White House and the task force could resolve this with a statement clarifying their joint position, but they can’t because it would hurt Trump. Giving us consistent advice does not seem to be the top priority.

    There is nothing to resolve. The media is in conflict. They need to name their sources or admitt they only report what the clicks demand.

    The White House is not required to jump every time “sources close the matter say…”

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  209. So it wasn’t 100% as you said, dead is dead just because you don’t like that, it doesn’t make it not so. One of the problems with the first one he published with 26 patients also disregarded those that died or went to ICU, this one actually acknowledges that. 14 of the patients are still in the hospital, so that is without result.

    Plus, no control group, but compared to the percentages in NYC, for 80 patients, you’d expect…slightly better outcomes.

    As with you other handles, zero peer reviewed scientific studies say what you say they say.

    I don’t know why you continue to promote non-science. You could be promoting silver colloidal sprays like Jim Bakker, or one of Alex Jones quack remedies, they’re doing it to make money, you’re doing for what, laughs?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  210. It may show that, bendover, but it is a small study with no control group. It may be the current French victims are not as sick as other cohorts.

    We should get confirmation soon. Many hospitals are using these drugs in the US and there are large clinical trials in NY now. We all hope these drugs (and others) work.

    DRJ (15874d)

  211. There is nothing to resolve. The media is in conflict. They need to name their sources or admitt they only report what the clicks demand.

    The White House is not required to jump every time “sources close the matter say…”

    Donald J Trump is perfect, if he said it, it was true. Then later he said the opposite, that is also true. He’s perfection.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  212. “I don’t know why you continue to promote non-science. You could be promoting silver colloidal sprays like Jim Bakker, or one of Alex Jones quack remedies, they’re doing it to make money, you’re doing for what, laughs?”, said CK, as he anointed his principle point with essential oil…

    Sorry, it was a hanging curve…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  213. Iowan2 212,

    There were named sources in both links I provided. Politico’s source is Mnuchin, and the NY Post article quoted Dr Birx’s defense of Trump’s quarantine.

    DRJ (15874d)

  214. you guys seen Jenny from Iowa around lately? Wondering about her thoughts on MAOA’s moderation.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  215. Maybe bendover can provide links, where MAOA could not?

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  216. Thanks, I should’ve checked beyond her media credentials.

    No big deal. Everyone makes mistakes.

    Did you find that on your own, or did you see it on a Web site? If the latter, I’d love to know which one.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  217. @214 DRJ – The formal/controlled testing began 5 days ago in NYC. If the French results are to be replicated, the data will begin to reflect such beginning tomorrow.

    I have yet to read/hear of an anecdotal report contradicting the overall enthusiasm expressed in that report. I have seen/heard many which affirm the optimism. There are also reports of NYC physicians who self-prescribed the regime as a prophylaxis. Again, very promising.

    In any event, it will be absolutely fascinating to observe the various players as they react to actual results. Fauci and Birx are professionally invested in this deal resulting in more than 60K USA deaths. DJT is similarly invested in a lower number. Buckle up.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  218. If I was in the hospital on a ventilator with this in the ICU on my way out, give me all the drugs. Even if there is a 99.999% chance that it doesn’t do anything. But the 1.5% death rate is exactly what you would see anyway, so then being part of the normally 98.5 percent isn’t the magic drug, it’s just the nature of CV-19.

    If it’s shown to lower the rate at which people go to the hospital, go to ICU, and die, great. This doesn’t do that.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  219. What’s the difference between 10,000 and 160,000?

    Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, along with Lt. Governor Jon Husted, have released a statement expressing frustration after they say the U.S. Food and Drug Administration decided to limit the use of new technology to sterilize desperately-needed surgical masks.

    In a statement released Sunday morning, DeWine and Husted announced the FDA has authorized Columbus-based Battelle to sterilize only 10,000 surgical masks in Ohio each day, despite their ability to sterilize up to 160,000 masks per day in Ohio alone.

    The authorization of 10,000 masks per day is limited to Battelle’s Columbus headquarters and prevents Battelle from sending its groundbreaking technology to other states such Washington and New York, as well as Washington D.C. and the Virginia/Maryland areas, according to the release.

    Dewine said that he had spoken to Trump about it, and Trump said he would try to sort it.

    Why would it make a difference whether they sterilized 10,000 or 160,000? If the concern is that the system is faulty, then even sterilizing 10,000 would put healthcare workers at risk. The safest route for everyone concerned then, would be to not sterlize any masks. If there is a concern that, if the masks work just fine after sterilization and more can be effectively treated, and manufacturuers would take a hit, then shame on them. Or are they concerned that if the masks end up degraded after going through the process, there would have been 10,000 wasted masks that needed to be replaced during a time of shortage?

    The FDA has a whole list of steps to take regarding PPE, yet clearly state:

    The FDA’s recommendations are intended to augment, and not intended to replace, specific controls and procedures developed by healthcare organizations, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), or CDC’s Healthcare Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC) to aid in infection prevention and control.

    I’d like to know, why the limit?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  220. Fauci says it’s hard to know for sure, there are estimates based on assumptions and it’s a “moving target” but says: “Looking at what we are seeing now, I would say between 100,000-200,000” deaths from coronavirus. “We’re going to have millions of cases,” he says on @CNNSotu

    Grim…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  221. Maybe bendover can provide links, where MAOA could not?

    Leviticus (28a6ca) — 3/29/2020 @ 10:26 am

    Here you go

    bendover (aa5a9b)

  222. Provide one to a scientific, peer reviewed study. A press release to the non-scientific, not reviewed, not repeated, study doesn’t really cut it MAOA. The amount of malware imbedded in your linked site should probably have been a clue.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  223. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/29/2020 @ 10:36 am
    It sounds to me that the other 150k is could be meant to populate various portions (e,g, control group) of any future study that may be conducted, of the resulting data. Not doing so might be missing an opportunity to structure data in a way that will lend itself to a generally accepted analytical practice. It is “big-picture” thinking.

    Unfortunatly, simply saying so would prolly be considered bad optics, opening them up to public criticism; the kind of criticism that Dr. Fauci, no doubt, finds unhelpful. At least that is what pops into my mind in the absence of additional information.

    felipe (023cc9)

  224. Maybe bendover can provide links, where MAOA could not?

    Leviticus (28a6ca) — 3/29/2020 @ 10:26 am

    Here you go
    bendover (aa5a9b) — 3/29/2020 @ 11:16 am

    Hahaha! I gues that proves that bendover is not MAOA; after all, Clark Kent wears glasses and Superman does not!

    felipe (023cc9)

  225. Number of deaths for leading causes of death (2017) in USA:
    •Heart disease: 647,457
    •Cancer: 599,108
    •Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    •Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    •Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    •Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    •Diabetes: 83,564
    •Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    •Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    •Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  226. Wow, CV-19 can move to #3. That’s great, or was there a different point to the post?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  227. Free will is both a wonderful and terrifying thing to behold. People sometimes self-identify in ways that tend to be most revealing to those open to the truth.

    felipe (023cc9)

  228. Wow, CV-19 can move to #3.

    Fauci’s number assumes we continue to take medically sensible countermeasures.

    If the death cult get their way, it could be ten times higher.

    Dave (1bb933)

  229. If only the dinosaurs had the Constitution to wave at that killer asteroid to stop it cold.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. Perhaps, felipe, but what is worse: keeping that information from the public and letting us assume the worse or explaining the actual weighted reasoning behind the decision? It seems to me, at this point, letting the public assume the worst (and we will because that’s where we’re at), seems foolish. It seems to me that the public is craving direct, honest, and unvarnished truths.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  231. “ I’d like to know, why the limit?”

    One guess would be the number is written into some regulation.

    It reminded me of that infectious disease doctor in WA being ordered to stop testing in the area around that infected school because her test had not yet passed the months-long process of being approved for Medicare reimbursement.

    She and the local health board finally ignored the order, closed the school and resumed testing.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  232. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/29/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    I completely agree, Dana. The people should not be treated like children.

    felipe (023cc9)

  233. harkin (b64479) — 3/29/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    Y’know what harkin? I think you may be right. Bureaucracy, what else? There are laws, and then there are regulations.

    felipe (023cc9)

  234. This is anecdotal.

    I’ve used melatonin as a sleep aid on and off for more than a decade. I also know from personal experience that *in me*, it reduces anxiety. So i’m using it intermittently right now for anxiety reduction.

    aphrael (7962af)

  235. > It seems to me, at this point, letting the public assume the worst (and we will because that’s where we’re at), seems foolish. It seems to me that the public is craving direct, honest, and unvarnished truths.

    The truth is we don’t know. China’s numbers and data are untrustworthy. We don’t know for sure what the infection rate is, or what the fatality rate is, and we won’t know that for months. We have models that generate a range of outcomes, and we don’t have the information to tell which outcome in the range is more likely to be correct.

    So everyone is making best guesses, and the best guesses coming from the people with the most experience in epidemiology are all horrifying.

    aphrael (7962af)

  236. While I agree with you, aphrael, regarding China’s numbers, etc., I think there is a specific reason that can be given as to why they are limiting the sterilization of masks.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  237. Well, NJRob, since you were the only one to respond to my comment, yeah, I thought it was a really good movie. I wouldn’t call it “fantastic,” but rather disturbing. Still, it is very well made.

    It highlights how the government and the media views and treats ordinary citizens. But after Waco and Ruby Ridge, what would you expect? False assumptions, flawed profiling, and flagrant abuse of power, that’s how this government operates these days, has for years.

    My mother, however, is obsessing over Richard Jewell. In fact, she wants to watch the movie again tonight. I don’t know if that’s a good idea, since it upset her so much yesterday that she had nightmares last night. But, hey, if she wants to subject herself to the same trauma, I’ll turn on the TV.

    On a side note, I notice that Patterico, our esteemed host, began using the term ‘confirmation bias,’ after my post. As a prosecuting district attorney, he knows how prevalent it is amongst law enforcement. I know he doesn’t allow himself to be subject to it; he follows the facts, without favoritism or prejudice. But he knows it’s out there, and is a real problem.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  238. Dana, at 240: fair enough. I was detached from context, there.

    aphrael (7962af)

  239. Florida Mega Church Packed with worshipers, pastor Shuns social distancing

    The Pastor boasted his place was white-glove clean, saying, “We brought in 13 machines that basically kill every virus in the place, and uh, if somebody walks through the door it’s like, it kills everything on them. If they sneeze, it shoots it down at like 100 mph. It’ll neutralize it in split seconds. We have the most sterile building in, I don’t know, all of America.”.

    Be interested to know what these miracle machines are. Disappointing stewardship of his flock. But based on the ministers twitter feed he’s 110% in on the KAG conspiracy theory that this is an exaggerated problem intended to hurt the economy in order to harm president Trumps re-election.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  240. Time123, the thing I find baffling about that theory is that it doesn’t explain what’s going on in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, and the UK. It’s almost as though these people are completely unaware of anything in the world outside the US.

    aphrael (7962af)

  241. Coronavirus cure: French researchers completed new additional study on 80 patients, results show a combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin to be effective in treating COVID-19

    NO! NEIN! NYET! OXI!

    I talked to two doctors this morning. One who specializes in infectious diseases and another who has treated children with neurological diseases in malarial Africa. Chloroquine and azithromycin, each and both, together or separately, prolong the q-t interval and will cause cardiac arrhythmia and death. That’s what’s killing most of the coronavirus patients on ventilators right now, in the first place. Not the virus but cardiac arrest.

    In my opinion, this is murderous, opportunistic, witch-doctoring, or utter fraud, and nothing more than that. That the so-called study is published where it’s published should give everybody a clue in the first place.

    nk (1d9030)

  242. nk — on the other hand, my friend whose parents are doctors in india tell me that chloroquine is the preferred treatment among the medical community in india, to the point where her parents (unprompted) sent her some.

    aphrael (7962af)

  243. PS Trump sucks monkey turds.

    nk (1d9030)

  244. PPS Much of Israel — the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan Heights — is occupied territory.

    nk (1d9030)

  245. I’m hearing that what actually happened to our national store of PPE was that we sent it to China in February and that the narrative that Obama never restocked after H1N1 is not the truth.

    https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-announces-assistance-to-combat-the-novel-coronavirus/

    Nic (896fdf)

  246. Good grief, Mr. Nic.

    nk (1d9030)

  247. Time123, what is a “KAG conspiacy theory”?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  248. Trump is boasting about high ratings for his press briefings (aka substitutes for political rallies) — because that’s what he really cares about. Nothing else can ever matter as much to him as the feeding of his gargantuan ego.

    That was obvious back in 2015, and the weight of the presidency hasn’t made him a better person.

    How anyone can keep on ardently defending that psychopath is a deep mystery.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  249. I had to look it up too. Keep America Great.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  250. Trump is boasting about high ratings for his press briefings (aka substitutes for political rallies) — because that’s what he really cares about. Nothing else can ever matter as much to him as the feeding of his gargantuan ego.

    I mean there are people that watch him and actually believe what he says. Like the fake miracle drugs.

    Just ignore the press briefing while Trump is talking, you’ll be safer, you can start paying attention once Pence or one of the doctors starts talking. If the Arizona couple would have listened to the dr’s and not Trump, the husband would be alive, and the wife not a hospitaled widow.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  251. KAG is “Keep American Great”

    The conspiracy theory is that the media has exaggerated the danger of covid-19 to intentionally harm the economy and diminish Trump’s chances of getting re-elected.

    It’s rarely laid out as a series of plain assertions, because it sounds nuts. But

    This isn’t that bad, it’s like to flu. Diarrhea is worse. Did you hear how happy the MSM is about all the shut downs? They say that if the economy is bad it will hurt Trump in the fall.

    all lead to this conclusion.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  252. Ah. Thanks, Colonel Klink.

    Again, this speaks to the incredible foolishness and gullibility of the masses. Like the couple ingested the chloroquine that Trump promoted, these worshippers have also allowed themselves to be conned by a charlatan rather than use common sense and act responsibly for their sake, as well as that of others. Even more than Trump, though, Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne, who is allegedly speaking in the name of Jesus, will bear great moral responsibility if an attendee contracts the virus and dies as a result of his irresponsible claims and mockery of Christ. And think of the number of people they might go out and unknowingly infect.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  253. Time123, the thing I find baffling about that theory is that it doesn’t explain what’s going on in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, and the UK. It’s almost as though these people are completely unaware of anything in the world outside the US.

    Try looking at the situation differently as if the the point of most everything is the respect and deference shown to your Tribe. Things that have no impact to this don’t really exist. An argument about what to do that doesn’t change the status of your tribe pointless. Deaths in Italy and Spain aren’t directly relevant.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  254. And thanks, Time123.

    The conspiracy theory is that the media has exaggerated the danger of covid-19 to intentionally harm the economy and diminish Trump’s chances of getting re-elected.

    How can this even be considered plausible, given the actual number of confirmed patients and deaths from the virus? How would the media be able to fake all those numbers from Italy and NYC given we have actual testimony and visual evidence? This would have to mean that all of the medical experts we’ve heard from – including Trump’s own task force (Fauci and Brix, etc) were lying about the seriousness of the pandemic.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  255. I think Florida is being flooded with resources that are desperately needed in Michigan and NY for political reasons. But I’m afraid that they’re really going to need them. My in laws are there right now and I’m worried for them. My wife is very worried, she’s started paying attention to politics, a subject that usually bores her to tears.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  256. I just wrote a comment with a link for each point in the conspiracy theory I laid out showing someone of prominence supporting it. Looks like I closed the window without hitting submit.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  257. Fascinating window into the way DJT runs meetings was just on display.

    It’s all encouragement, all the time. Just like he is publicly. The one bit “conflict” was the sterilization of masks/PPE for re-use. He made it plain there had better be one helluva reason for approving 10K, but no more for that Ohio company. He was careful to not assign blame. He then was very specific that he expected the Admiral to get him some answers, and that he, DJT himself, had been in contact with FDA about this. Then, out of nowhere, came the dude from the Northwest who said they were already sanitizing hundreds of thousands of masks for re-use each day. Would he have dared speak if he doubted DJT’s sincerity in seeking a solution?

    I am deeply troubled, however, about accepting PPE from China who has proven it makes junk. This is where the typically incurious DJT really harms us. This is trouble.

    Finally…no need for A/C in that meeting room. UPS and FedEx making nice? Riiiight. I bet those executives could build igloos in Tahiti if they used their real feelings as the other was shining in front of the world when DJT called upon them to speak.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  258. Try right clicking, and you may see “undo close tab”

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  259. 249. 17.8 tons of medical supplies, including masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials.

    Very good. A number without context. How much does the US go through in a week? How much can US producers ship in a week?

    Numbers really don’t mean much until you understand them.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  260. @259. ‘I think Florida is being flooded with resources that are desperately needed in Michigan and NY for political reasons…’

    Lest ye forget: your ex-governor and current U.S. Senator, Rick Scott:

    “In 1987, after serving in the United States Navy and becoming a law firm partner, he co-founded Columbia Hospital Corporation. Columbia later merged with another corporation to form Columbia/HCA, which eventually became the largest private for-profit health care company in the United States. Scott was pressured to resign as chief executive of Columbia/HCA in 1997. During his tenure as chief executive, the company defrauded Medicare, Medicaid and other federal programs. The Department of Justice ultimately fined the company $1.7 billion in what was at the time the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history. Scott was not charged with a crime. Following his departure from Columbia/HCA, Scott became a venture capitalist and pursued other business interests.” – source, wikiscumbag

    What’s to worry about?!

    “Rate of patient recovery? I’ll have that for you in a moment… once in a blue moon.” – Dr. Charles Montague [Harvey Korman] ‘High Anxiety’ 1977

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  261. 245. Doesn’t almost everybody die of stoppage of the heart?

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  262. 247. PS Trump sucks monkey turds.

    Popsicles, too. But his briefings are garnering great ratings- he tweets us so. Pandemics are grand entertainment, but the couch crew at Fox & Friends remain frustrated that Coronavirus won’t return their calls, remains on the move, will not grant interviews, does not tweet any responses to Trump and remains steadfastly ‘unavailable or comment.’ Heck of a strategy, Cornie!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  263. Like the couple ingested the chloroquine that Trump promoted

    Fake news, the couple ingested chloroquine phosphate, which is aquarium cleaner.

    Colonel Haiku (9e91a2)

  264. Fake news, the couple ingested chloroquine phosphate, which is aquarium cleaner.

    It helps to learn things. “Chloraquine” the drug IS chloroquine phosphate. The more you lie, the more danger you put people’s lives in.

    Chloroquine phosphate comes as a tablet to take by mouth. For prevention of malaria in adults, one dose is usually taken once a week on exactly the same day of the week. Your doctor will tell you how many tablets to take for each dose. One dose is taken beginning 2 weeks before traveling to an area where malaria is common, while you are in the area, and then for 8 weeks after you return from the area. If you are unable to start 2 weeks before traveling, your doctor may tell you to take double the dose right away.

    For treatment of acute attacks of malaria in adults, one dose is usually taken right away, followed by half the dose 6 to 8 hours later and then half the dose once a day for the next 2 days.

    For prevention and treatment of malaria in infants and children, the amount of chloroquine phosphate is based on the child’s weight. Your doctor will calculate this amount and tell you how much chloroquine phosphate your child should receive.

    For treatment of amebiasis, one dose is usually taken for 2 days and then half the dose every day for 2 to 3 weeks. It is usually taken in combination with other amebicides.

    Chloroquine phosphate may cause an upset stomach. Take chloroquine phosphate with food.

    Follow the directions on your prescription label carefully, and ask your doctor or pharmacist to explain any part you do not understand. Use chloroquine phosphate exactly as directed. Do not use more or less of it or use it more often than prescribed by your doctor.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  265. @252. How anyone can keep on ardently defending that psychopath is a deep mystery.

    Like backing Stalin to defeat Hitler? No mystery: neutering the modern ideological conservative movement for starts. No pain; no gain- temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  266. Just ignore the press briefing while Trump is talking,

    There’s still the problem that the president is a psychopath who cares only about himself.
    He’s being propped up and zealously defended by people who should have understood from the beginning why that’s a problem. Instead, they insist that the real problem is people telling the obvious truth about Trump.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  267. “I know insurance companies better than anybody.” – President Donald J. Trump, 3-29-2020

    Sleep well, America.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  268. Ed 221:

    I have yet to read/hear of an anecdotal report contradicting the overall enthusiasm expressed in that report. I have seen/heard many which affirm the optimism.

    There are contraindications for some patients but I join you in hoping this will help patients.

    There are also reports of NYC physicians who self-prescribed the regime as a prophylaxis. Again, very promising.

    And very unethical.

    DRJ (15874d)

  269. Fauci and Birx are professionally invested in this deal resulting in more than 60K USA deaths.

    Well, that is a pretty horrible sentiment. It’s also a blatant lie, but if it makes you feel better, I guess there’s no stopping a hateful person in lying to themselves and others.

    And by “this deal” do you mean the pandemic that is now killing more than a thousand a day, doubling every two days?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  270. Here’s your lesson, smarmy mofo klink…

    “ The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned against using chloroquine phosphate to treat coronavirus in official guidance on Saturday, after the agency learned that the substance killed one person and left another critically ill.

    “Chloroquine phosphate, when used without a prescription and supervision of a healthcare provider, can cause serious health consequences, including death,” the CDC said. “Clinicians and public health officials should discourage the public from misusing non-pharmaceutical chloroquine phosphate (a chemical used in home aquariums).”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  271. Haiku 267:

    Fake news, the couple ingested chloroquine phosphate, which is aquarium cleaner.

    I think they are the same, although the aquarium drug is not standardized because it is not subject to FDA inspections or regulations. The US Library of Medicine Medline Plus definition: “Chloroquine phosphate is in a class of drugs called antimalarials and amebicides. It is used to prevent and treat malaria. It is also used to treat amebiasis.” Also, the FDA is working to remove the aquarium treatment from the market because of the Arizona case.

    DRJ (15874d)

  272. Here’s your lesson, smarmy mofo klink…

    My lesson is you admitting your lie was…untruthful? Was it an intentional misstatement of fact or just not knowing the truth? Only you know, still not the truth though.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  273. Fauci and Birx are professionally invested in this deal resulting in more than 60K USA deaths

    No. Doctors have to consider the worst case scenario.

    For example, assume your doctor said you are anemic and it could be because you have an iron deficiency, but based on his training and judgment he thought it was cancer. Would that mean he was “invested” in you having cancer? Would he care more about looking right, or would he care more about giving you the best information?

    DRJ (15874d)

  274. @273 Col. Klink – You have not been paying attention if you have missed the politicization of our healthcare at all levels.

    Fauci protested that he did not get into politics in a recent presser. Minutes later, same presser, he went out of his way defending that WHO turd who injected himself into the effort to rehab CCP’s reputation.

    Fauci and Birx are fully aware that their legacies ae on the line. They rose to their current supreme positions by being political animals, as well as their obvious competencies. It’s simple human nature to want to be right. Beyond this, if they get it wrong, the public will (rightly) demand a dismantling and restructure of their areas of science, as well.

    ALL sides have vested interests outside of the actual fight/war on the virus.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  275. Haiku 274,

    I think that undercuts your position and instead proves they are the same.

    DRJ (15874d)

  276. ‘No more Easter deadline’: President Trump extends social distancing guidelines to end of April

    https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/03/29/no-more-easter-deadline-president-trump-extends-social-distancing-guidelines-to-end-of-april/

    As I predicted.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  277. The CDC lists them as the same:

    Chloroquine (also known as chloroquine phosphate)
    is an antimalarial medicine…

    Also, from the CDC:

    Chloroquine phosphate, when used without a prescription and supervision of a healthcare provider, can cause serious health consequences, including death. Clinicians and public health officials should discourage the public from misusing non-pharmaceutical chloroquine phosphate (a chemical used in home aquariums). Clinicians should advise patients and the public that chloroquine, and the related compound hydroxychloroquine, should be used only under the supervision of a healthcare provider as prescribed medications.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  278. FWIW – I take most all of the folks on the WH task force(s) to be motivated by the best of what we are. Fauci and Birx, included. DJT, as well.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  279. From Bored Lawyer’s link:

    Dr. Fauci calls it a “wise and prudent decision.” He says he and Dr. Birx presented data to the president and that’s when the decision to extend the guidelines was made.

    It’s encouraging to know that the President is willing to listen to the experts even though he initially appeared to disagree with their assessment last week at the press conference.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  280. Dr Fauci is the head of allergy and infectious disease at the NIH. He has been there since 1984. It is not a political position.

    DRJ (15874d)

  281. Fauci and Birx are professionally invested in this deal resulting in more than 60K USA deaths

    That kind of puts this into question

    FWIW – I take most all of the folks on the WH task force(s) to be motivated by the best of what we are. Fauci and Birx, included. DJT, as well.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  282. “From the interview:

    “I was in the pantry stacking dog food and I just saw it sitting in the back shelf and thought, ‘Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV?’ And it was.”

    It wasn’t.

    I’m afraid that this is the stuff of idiocracy — the equivalent of a person seeing a bucket of chlorine next to her swimming pool and drinking it because the letters on the outside are arranged in a similar order to the word “chloroquine.” And the idea that the president is to blame for this is . . . well, it’s simply incomprehensible to me. It is possible, certainly, that Donald Trump (along with Andrew Cuomo) has been too bullish on the prospects for chloroquine as a tool in the fight against coronavirus. But that, if true, is a dramatically different sin. We simply cannot run our country on the assumption that “I have high hopes for this drug currently in clinical trials and hope it will eventually be fast-tracked by the FDA and prescribed by a doctor” will be heard by reasonable people as “go into your pantry right now and eat fish tank cleaner if the ingredients look similar to you to a word you heard on television.” Insofar as there is any advice to be disseminated here, it’s “don’t eat industrial cleaning products,” which one would hope is a lesson that most people have already internalized.

    Not to be outdone, Forbes got into the action, too. Here is the lead paragraph from a piece on the affair by Tara Haelle, who offers “straight talk on science, medicine, health and vaccines”:

    When President Trump incorrectly announced that the FDA had fast-tracked approval of the drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for treatment of COVID-19, he added, “The nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it—if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody.”

    Except it just did.

    No, it didn’t. And one can learn that it didn’t by simply reading the next paragraph, which confirms that, “Instead of the drug form of chloroquine phosphate, the couple ingested a chloroquine phosphate product that’s used to treat parasites in fish. ”

    This being so, one wonders what the “public service” angle can be here, for if chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine do turn out to be as useful as I assume we all hope they will, they will be limited, regulated, subjected to our existing prescription regime, and delivered, to borrow a term from Tara Haelle, in “drug form.” Does NBC know this? Does Forbes? Or do they believe that, if and when a cure is found, we will see the president call a press conference at which he encourages Americans to forage around in their pantries for consumer products that contain some of the same component parts as the treatments the medical community has begun to utilize?”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/no-president-trump-did-not-make-anyone-ingest-fish-tank-cleaner/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  283. Thought this was interesting –
    Ken Goddard: Director, National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory.
    USEFUL INFORMATION ON VIRUSES
    • a virus is not a living organism, but only a molecule of protein (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipids (fats), that upon being absorbed by ocular, nasal and mouth mucosa cells changes the genetic code of the cells and converts them into aggressor and multiplier cells.
    • Since the virus is not a living organism but rather a molecule of protein, it doesn’t die but rather disintegrates on its own. The length of time it takes to disintegrate depends on temperature, humidity and the type of material where is sits.
    • The virus is very fragile, the only thing that protects it is a thin external layer of fat. That’s why any soap or detergent is the best remedy because suds break down grease/fats (that’s why you have to suds up for 20 seconds or more in order to make a lot of suds). Once the layer of fat is dissolved, the molecule of protein falls apart and disintegrates on its own.
    • HEAT melts grease, that is why it is best to use water that is at least 25 degrees centigrade (you can do your math here or just use pretty warm water) to wash your hands, clothes, etc. Besides, hot water makes more suds and that is good.
    • Alcohol or any mixture of alcohol at more than 65% will dissolve any grease/fats, especially the outer fat layer of the virus.
    • Any mixture of 1 part clorox and 5 parts water dissolve directly the protein, which kills it from the inside.
    • Oxidized water can be used besides soap, alcohol, and clorox because peroxide dissolves the protein of the virus, but you have to use it alone and it damages the skin.
    • NO BACTERIACIDE WORKS. Since the virus is not a living organism, you can’t kill anything that is not alive with antibiotics, except to rapidly disintegrate its structure with everything mentioned above.
    • NEVER shake clothes you have worn (or not worn) nor sheets or anything made of cloth. As long as it is stuck to a porous surface, it is inert and will disintegrate in 3 hours (cloth and porous surfaces) 4 hours (copper which is naturally antiseptic and wood because it pulls away all of the humidity and it stays stuck and disintegrates), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). Don’t dust or use a duster as the molecules of the virus will float in the air for up to 3 hours and can lodge in the nose.
    • The molecules of the virus are very stable in outdoor cold, air conditioning in houses and cars. It needs humidity to be stable and also darkness. Therefore, in environments that are dehumidified, dry, and with a lot of light will disintegrate it more rapidly.
    • ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT on any object where it can land will disintegrate the protein of the virus. For example, it is perfect to disinfect and be able to reuse a mask. Careful as it also disintegrates the protein in the skin (collagen) and can cause big wrinkles and skin cancer.
    • No virus can go through healthy skin.
    • Vinegar does not work because it doesn’t dissolve the protective layer of grease.
    • NO FIREWATER OR VODKA work. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol and you need at least 65%.
    • LISTERINE DOES WORK! It is 65% alcohol.
    • The more confined space the virus is in, the more concentrated it becomes. Open air and natural ventilation are the best.
    • It is imperative to wash your hands before and after touching mucous areas, food, knobs, light switches, remote controls, cell phones, watches, computers, desks, TVs etc. And when after using the toilet.
    • You need to use lotion on your dry hands, because the molecules can hide in tiny cracks. The thicker the cream, the better. Also keep your fingernails short! so the virus can’t hide in there either.
    ———————————————————

    mg (8cbc69)

  284. It wasn’t.

    It was

    I’m afraid that this is the stuff of idiocracy — the equivalent of a person seeing a bucket of chlorine next to her swimming pool and drinking it because the letters on the outside are arranged in a similar order to the word “chloroquine.”

    No, it isn’t. Words have meaning, and the particular words on this particular package said chloroquine phosphate, and guess what that is? chloroquine phosphate.

    When President Trump incorrectly announced that the FDA had fast-tracked approval of the drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for treatment of COVID-19, he added, “The nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it—if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody.”

    Except it just did.

    Yup, it just did.

    This being so, one wonders what the “public service” angle can be here, for if chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine do turn out to be as useful as I assume we all hope they will, they will be limited, regulated, subjected to our existing prescription regime, and delivered, to borrow a term from Tara Haelle, in “drug form.” Does NBC know this? Does Forbes? Or do they believe that, if and when a cure is found, we will see the president call a press conference at which he encourages Americans to forage around in their pantries for consumer products that contain some of the same component parts as the treatments the medical community has begun to utilize?”

    Again, words have meaning. Even when Donald Trump says them.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  285. This may have been discussed before, but there is a new French study released March 20, 2020, using 1) hydroxychloroquine & azythromycin combination, 2) hydroxychloroquine alone, and 3) a control group. (Chloroquine was not used because it has more side effects.) There were 42 patients — 16 were in the control group, and 26 were treated but of those 6 were dropped. The best results were with the combination therapy, but not everyone was an appropriate candidate for the therapy because of other health issues. The 6 dropped patients in the treated groups had to be transferred to the ICU or dropped out due to side effects. In addition, one “cured” treated patient tested positive later.

    However, many patients got better more quickly under the combination therapy and that is probably why the CDC now includes it as a therapeutic option for COVID19, along with Remdesivir. We haven’t heard as much about Remdesivir but it is also being used.

    DRJ (15874d)

  286. We need to add 100% mask usage to the social distancing. I’ve got stores near me with 10 person limit rules. We need no mask, no entry policies. Even simple masks reduce the spread.

    frosty (f27e97)

  287. There really aren’t many options for people who have this virus or for their doctors. One set of drugs that may work based on a handful of French and Chinese patients, some of whom did much better and some who did not. Another new drug that might work but has limited availability. Or traditional supportive care.

    No wonder the researchers are so desperate to find something.

    DRJ (15874d)

  288. It’s actually the same group of people, and with someone known to falsify results, Didier Raoult, with the same dramatically flawed methodology.

    Maybe, after an actual scientific study is conducted, it may be that it has some effectiveness. But all data points to it’s not beneficial. See #75.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  289. It might be the same because it does have the same head physician and hospital, but this study seems to say it has a French control group and took place March 1-16, 2020. I thought the other study was in February and had a Chinese control group.

    DRJ (15874d)

  290. But maybe this is the same small study, dressed up to be more convincing. If so, I am sorry I raised it again.

    DRJ (15874d)

  291. 265:

    Doesn’t almost everybody die of stoppage of the heart?

    I am not a doctor but my understanding is the heart stopping is what they use to declare a patient dead. That doesn’t mean their heart is what killed them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  292. Here’s your lesson, smarmy mofo klink…

    See, this is what confuses me. This quote seems to be leaps and bounds worse that my responding to dripping condescension with a mild bit of snark.

    I’m trying to understand. Honest.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  293. Well, one of our DILs has now been assigned to the COVID Unit in Sacramento… we’ll hope and pray for her safety.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  294. See, this is what confuses me. This quote seems to be leaps and bounds worse that my responding to dripping condescension with a mild bit of snark.

    The poster you quoted has been moderated a number of times himself, and is not really a good person to take your cue from.

    FWIW, I often agree with your substantive comments, but I hope you will tone down the vitriol.

    Dave (1bb933)

  295. Well, Trump in the neverending newsless briefing, said the press should investigate the first responders for hoarding. Well, not hoarding…

    “I don’t think it’s hoarding. I think it’s maybe worse than hoarding.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  296. and effectiveness.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  297. And I apologize for the “smarmy mofo” comment, Klink. Sometimes I get thin-skinned when dealing with the condescension and aggressive tone.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  298. 295. cardiac arrest is on a lot of death certificates. I have seen death certificates from 2 grandparents, 2 parents, one sister, and one brother. They all list cardiac arrest as cause of death.

    prolong the q-t interval and will cause cardiac arrhythmia and death. That’s what’s killing most of the coronavirus patients on ventilators right now, in the first place. Not the virus but cardiac arrest.

    The the q-t interval is prolonged, arrhythmia, and death. What caused the prolonged interval? That was my point. Saying coronavirus patients aren’t dying from the virus, but from cardiac arrests is a meaningless observation.

    This whole stupid dialog happening because stupid people ingested fish tank cleaner, and it is President Trumps fault, is idiocy on stilts. You can’t fix stupid. And no sentient person thinks fishtank cleaner is medicine. And that’s what the container said. Fish tank cleaner.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  299. m2 @287
    LISTERINE DOES WORK! It is 65% alcohol.

    mg (8cbc69) — 3/29/2020 @ 4:29 pm

    No, Listerine does NOT work. It is NOT 65% alcohol. It is from 0% to 26% alcohol. It will not kill the virus.

    nk (1d9030)

  300. This whole stupid dialog happening because stupid people ingested fish tank cleaner,
    Trump stupidly parroted stupid alt.right bullsh!t to stupidly pander to the stupid alt.right and the rest of his stupid supporters are now doing stupid headstands to somehow justify his stupid pander.

    nk (1d9030)

  301. I think some people have a long Q-T interval without symptoms so it can cause problems for patients who don’t think they have a problem. In addition, it appears both combo drugs can aggravate cardiac problems so that is more risk, which may be why the French study did daily heart tests on the combo drug patients.

    As for idiocy, there are things people do every day that I view as risky but they don’t. I bet you see people do crazy things, too. Sometimes they realize the risks but often they don’t, either because they are young, impaired, or ignorant. Typically it is their fault when they get hurt doing risky things, but it doesn’t help to encourage it. People can get in trouble for recklessly encouraging others to take risks.

    DRJ (15874d)

  302. Take cover, the presidential sippy-cup just went weapons-free:

    Fox News Poll Shows Joe Biden CRUSHING Trump By 25 Points in Swing Counties

    The race remains a nine-point advantage for Biden over Trump when looking only at those voters extremely interested in the election (52-43 percent) and the former vice president has an eight-point edge in battleground states (48-40 percent).

    However, Biden’s advantage grows to 25 points, 57-32 percent, in close counties (where Hillary Clinton and Trump were within 10 points in 2016).

    Dave (1bb933)

  303. New Yorkers to face fines:

    New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) said Sunday that New Yorkers who violate orders from police to disperse public gatherings will be fined up to $500 amid the coronavirus outbreak.

    “You’ve been warned and warned and warned again,” he reportedly added, stating that fines would be issued in increments of $250, up to $500 for violations of social distancing guidelines.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  304. mg, thank you for that posting. More information in it than in 24 hours of almost any news channels.
    One point
    • The molecules of the virus are very stable in outdoor cold, air conditioning in houses and cars. It needs humidity to be stable and also darkness. Therefore, in environments that are dehumidified, dry, and with a lot of light will disintegrate it more rapidly.

    As I understand it, air conditioning dehumifidies, so to combat the virus you would want to put it on.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  305. My nephew is working on the test kit thing at his bio-med firm in San Diego.

    He said, ‘We’re busy.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  306. The virus is very fragile, the only thing that protects it is a thin external layer of fat. That’s why any soap or detergent is the best remedy because suds break down grease/fats (that’s why you have to suds up for 20 seconds or more in order to make a lot of suds). Once the layer of fat is dissolved, the molecule of protein falls apart and disintegrates on its own.

    A virus is incredibly hardy, it can live in a vacuum, it can live on hard surfaces without a host for weeks, some exist for hundreds of thousands of years. Things can destroy them though, which is good. Also, a virus has no fat anywhere, much less the surface, it’s surface is a protein capsid. Detergent works, because it’s a surfactant, that also has properties to destroy the capsid.

    NO BACTERIACIDE WORKS. Since the virus is not a living organism, you can’t kill anything that is not alive with antibiotics, except to rapidly disintegrate its structure with everything mentioned above.

    A bacteriacide works for…bacteria. A virus is not bacteria.

    NO FIREWATER OR VODKA work. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol and you need at least 65%.

    The strongest Vodka is 95%. Polmos Spirytus Rektyfikowany Vodka for example. There’s also whiskey, rum, gin,

    etc…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  307. Chloroquine phosphate, when used without a prescription and supervision of a healthcare provider, can cause serious health consequences, including death. Clinicians and public health officials should discourage the public from misusing non-pharmaceutical chloroquine phosphate (a chemical used in home aquariums). Clinicians should advise patients and the public that chloroquine, and the related compound hydroxychloroquine, should be used only under the supervision of a healthcare provider as prescribed medications.

    While this is discouraged, the Press and Pols are ENCOURAGING the marijuana use. Oh, its just a harmless drug, so lets make it legal, what’s the harm? I also noticed that ads far hard Liquor are now allowed on TV, because nothing says “good health” than a 5th of vodka.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  308. Time123, we definitely need the resources here

    As of Sunday evening, nearly 5,000 cases of coronavirus were reported in Florida, as the number of cases in Broward County surpassed 1,000 for the first time.

    The new figures come one day after Miami-Dade County passed 1,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus.

    Miami-Dade’s total of 1,472 comprises just over one fourth of all cases across the State of Florida.

    COVID-19 cases in Broward County currently sit at 1,012.

    Cases of COVID-19 in Palm Beach County now stand at 383, an increase of 50 cases from Saturday.

    There have been 60 deaths in the state and 633 patients are currently hospitalized.

    https://wsvn.com/news/local/latest-covid-19-numbers-broward-cases-surpass-1000-florida-cases-near-5000/

    Yesterday the hospitalized case figure was given as “over 500″, so that’s about a 20% increase in one day.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  309. anti-malaria drugs need to be taken under a Doctors supervision and prescription. That’s just common sense and applies to most drugs. Overdoses can kill.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  310. The strongest Vodka is 95%

    You must mean 95 Proof, and the alcohol percentage is half of that. Most spirits are 40 percent/80 proof.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  311. Kish, you mean allowing the beaches and spring breakers to continue to do the opposite of social distancing was a bad idea?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  312. Colonel Klink,

    That is a despicable suggestion by Trump re “hoarding”. Here are his full remarks. I think that because he has been heavily criticized for a shortage of equipment, this is Baby Trump lashing out and trying to pin the blame on someone else. How does he not understand how there would be a dramatic increase in mask usage? Where has he been all this time?? I’m going to post his own words because the assertion is obscene, and because it’s a reminder of how erratic the President is, and how bizarrely out of touch he seems to be too:

    That statement was made, that they have been delivering for years 10,000 to 20,000 masks. Okay. It’s a New York hospital. It’s packed all the time. How do you go from 10,000 to 20,000 to 300,000? 10,000 to 20,000 masks to 300,000?

    Even though this is different. Something’s going on, and you ought to look into it as reporters. Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door? How do you go from 10,000 to 300,000?

    And we have that in a lot of different places. So, somebody should probably look into that, because I just don’t see from a practical standpoint how that’s possible to go from that to that.

    And we have that happening in numerous places. Not to that extent. That was the highest number I’ve heard. That’s the highest number you’ve seen, I would imagine, right? But this man makes them and delivers them to a lot of hospitals. He knows the system better than anybody, and I think you were more surprised than I was when you saw that number, so thank you very much. I hope I didn’t get any of your clients in trouble, but it could be that they are in trouble.

    When a reporter follows up an asks Trump whether he thinks there has been inappropriate use of equipment, Trump responded:

    So, I think people should check that, because there’s something going on. I don’t think it’s hoarding. I think it’s maybe worse than hoarding. But check it out. Check it out. I don’t know. I don’t know. I think that’s for other people to figure out.

    But you don’t go from numbers like that. Now, other equipment, likewise, because we’re delivering a lot of ventilators. And we’re building — by the way, we’re building and buying, and we have a lot of ventilators that we’re going to be sending out very soon. We also have right now in the stockpile almost 10,000 ventilators that we have to hold in case of emergency.

    We don’t want them going out and then Louisiana has a tremendous problem, which now we know that they do. All of a sudden it came very quickly. It came — I mean, Louisiana was doing so fantastically well. Then all of a sudden, there was a big rash of cases. So, we have to be prepared to move the ventilators. They’re very important pieces of equipment, and they’re very expensive and they’re very complex. They’re very — it’s like building a car, you know. These are expensive, complicated, very complicated pieces of equipment.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  313. No, 95% as in 192 proof. There are hundreds of liquor options above 65%. Everclear, Poitin, cask strength whiskey…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  314. This whole stupid dialog happening because stupid people ingested fish tank cleaner, and it is President Trumps fault, is idiocy on stilts.

    Remember when President Nixon held one of his many Apollo 13 pressers and told NASA’s Kranz, Kraft and Lunney to have Lovell, Haise and Swigert conserve oxygen by breathing only through one nostril?

    Lord knows how they got back alive without the wisdom and guidance input from The Big Dick.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  315. Col K
    Probably most of the spring breakers went back to sweet home Alabama or other places in the South/Midwest, and most of them were in parts of the state not (so far) hit badly by the virus. In fact here in So Florida, they closed the beaches relatively promptly.

    The high numbers here probably reflect a relatively vigorous testing program that got started late last week, and the fact that there are more than a few of us here. My county has about 1.9 million people, and Miami Dade is of course bigger.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  316. 317
    I think you would have to dilute it to drink it. Or else die.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  317. Icy duty
    RIP Krzystof Penderecki

    His music was used in a few films, so if you ever saw The Exorcist or The Shining, you heard something by him.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  318. I mean, Louisiana was doing so fantastically well. Then all of a sudden, there was a big rash of cases.

    Yeah Mardi Gras was a bad move, but a valuable lesson. This is exhibit A in the case for social distancing and shutting things down. New Orleans has the highest per capita death rate in the country.

    And I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in the thick of New Jersey or New Orleans working through this hell and realize your president is blaming you for hoarding masks or ventilators you don’t even have to keep from spreading this disease to your family. These hospitals aren’t just faceless entities. They are full of people who don’t need Trump to pick a fight with them.

    It’s like Gorbachev blaming empty bread shelves on the hungry.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  319. I would not call 95% neutral grain spirits “vodka”, either, Kishnevi. I would call it “raw alcohol”, like most other people do.

    nk (1d9030)

  320. I think you would have to dilute it to drink it. Or else die.

    Bacardi 151 was the “cool” shots in college in the 80’s, grain alcohol is higher proof but actually less awful. Cask strength bourbon is about the highest proof thing that I will willingly drink as an adult, but i like bourbon.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  321. Blathering baboons will blather. Look how he drifts from one topic to another inside a single sentence.

    “The Moon is possibly made of green cheese but my press briefing are getting great ratings and you know, Kim Jong Un, great guy, tremendous guy, he sent me a beautiful letter, now eats his kimchie with ketchup, like in the great state of Texarkana where my support is 96% among Republicans.”

    nk (1d9030)

  322. This is not going to turn out well.

    An additional 59 Gallatin nursing home residents have tested positive for COVID-19 and are being taken to Sumner Regional Medical Center for treatment.

    Thirty-three Gallatin Center for Rehabilitation and Healing staff members also tested positive for the novel coronavirus, but are isolating at home.

    The new numbers were announced Sunday evening via a news release from Gov. Bill Lee’s office. In total, 74 residents of the nursing home have tested positive for COVID-19, according to Lee’s spokeswoman Laine Arnold.

    Two nursing home residents have died, said Sumner County Mayor Anthony Holt during a Sunday evening news conference.

    Holt pleaded with all who live in Sumner County to take seriously his call to stay home.

    “I am begging, I am pleading, I am asking that you stay home if at all possible. Keep your loved ones safe. This is serious,” Holt said.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  323. FWIW they are using Hydroxychloroquin in Dutch hospitals, in the most severe cases. So tells me my Dutch friend whose daughter is a nurse and son is a doctor. i don’t know in what dosage or mixed with what.

    JRH (52aed3)

  324. @325. Now, now; even the Bubonic Plaque had comedy relief; believe it was called The Crusades.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dviEWs_VIG4

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  325. for COVID i mean

    JRH (52aed3)

  326. 326
    Unfortunately that situation is likely to happen in a whole bunch of places over the next couple of months.

    Kishnevi (916796)

  327. Like I’ve said many times, if I was in ICU, I’d take it, but before I take some vague dosage of a drug that may or may not work as a prophylactic, I’d want at least some proof that the risk is balanced by something more than bare hope.

    Frankly, the other options under test appear to be more likely to be beneficial, especially the human convalescent serum since that is a pretty common use case. But I wish they’d all work, that would be great.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  328. Make sure to take your echinacea, folks.

    /sarc

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  329. I’m telling you, the olds take advantage of their preferred hours and clean out the TP, hand-San, and Clorox wipes by 9.30am.

    I’ve been there at the 7am opening and not a paper good or cleaning wipe in the store. I think it’s the employees selling them out of the back of a truck.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  330. That’s a long time to have to improvise…

    The cats won’t let me come close.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  331. You can pick up a bidet, or a seat bidet from Costco.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  332. No, Trump doesn’t have the authority or power to quarantine states.

    Now, this is an interesting question. DO governors have powers in what amounts to a national-security crisis that the president does not? The Constitution does not discuss pandemics, of course, but it does discuss the relative powers of state and the feds with respect to invasion. In many respects the situations are similar.

    States, and governors have the explicit authority to resist an invasion in the absence of federal action. The federal government ALSO has that right, and can clearly do so even if the state does not act, or refuses to act, and can do so from any part of any state without requiring permission. Only in the case of civil unrest do the feds have to get permission from the state to act.

    There is also the interstate commerce clause, and this pandemic clearly affects interstate commerce (at least as much as a bushel of wheat does). So, while none of this has really been tested in courts, I think it is likely that the president has the same powers nationally as a governor does within a state.

    Trump could, for example, ground all aircraft. He could probably forbid interstate travel during a pandemic. He could probably order a nationwide lock-down. I doubt however, that he could quarantine Manhattan Island, or any other portion of a single state.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  333. Missed them in theaters but dvd’s will be available.

    Both are available for $treaming, I think

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  334. No, Trump doesn’t have the authority or power to quarantine states.

    Why in the world would we have to do that. People, stay at home, it’s not going to kill you, but not staying home may.

    This is why we can’t have nice things.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  335. I agree. Still bad, though. It would make sense to see that in a dictatorship but not in a free nation.

    Why is it dictatorial for Trump to do what governors are already doing (e.g. Hawaii, New Mexico)? Doesn’t Trump have more claim on interstate matters during a crisis than individual governors do?

    The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999)

    This was not in the same context. This is the moral equivalent of wartime, to coin a phrase.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  336. You can pick up a bidet, or a seat bidet from Costco.

    Oh, we have TP, just that we no longer have WEEKS of TP.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  337. P&G and Georgia Pacific both said they’re running their TP plants at over 100%. I just don’t get the TP shortage. There’s no frozen pizza shortage, or beer shortage…yet, and they’re both more important than TP.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  338. Fox News Poll Shows Joe Biden CRUSHING Trump By 25 Points in Swing Counties

    In March 1980, Carter was crushing Reagan, 58% – 33%. Carrter’s lead became much smaller when John Anderson entered the race, but Reagan still trailed by 4 points in October.

    In March 1992, GHW Bush lead both Perot and Clinton by double digits.

    It’s too early to tell, and the situation is too wild.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  339. I just don’t get the TP shortage

    There is almost no consumer product as perfectly flat in sales as TP. Year in and year out per capita sales are constant. So, when there’s a big spike in purchases (and it’s not Halloween), the distribution system takes a while to reset.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  340. Things that are hard to find, still: Eggs, TP, hand sanitizer. I guess it’s hard to ramp up egg production.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  341. The chickens just need to focus….

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  342. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/29/2020 @ 6:37 pm

    I’m not sure why the article would say Trump said it was hoarding when right in the quote he says

    I don’t think it’s hoarding. I think it’s maybe worse than hoarding.

    It sounds like he’s talking about stealing. Namely, reports like this that indicate Cuomo also thinks there’s a lot of stealing going on. I’ve seen articles on this happening in the UK too.

    But

    Dustin (928d9a) — 3/29/2020 @ 7:00 pm

    don’t let those articles about people stealing the masks get in the way of the narrative. Fight the good fight.

    frosty (f27e97)

  343. Frosty,

    The president should not be hostile towards the folks working in hospitals right now facing shortages. I completely understand that there are examples to defend literally anything Trump could possibly say as ‘accurate’ in some sense. But he is the president.

    There are appropriate people to deal with theft, which obviously is happening because of fear. Do you think Trump’s picking fights with everyone doing the hard work is helpful? He is the worst leader I’ve ever seen. It would be much better if he went back to the golf course every day.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  344. CNN invites Stephen King, author of The Stand, fictional story of pandemic killing 99.5% of humanity in one month, to Reliable Sources to discuss the Wuhan virus.

    CNN chyron: ‘When real life is even scarier than fiction’.

    https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/1244484779220832261?s=20

    They really are rooting for the virus.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  345. They just can’t help themselves….

    The Washington Post
    @washingtonpost

    The coronavirus recession is exposing how the economy was not strong as it seemed
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  346. Well, one of our DILs has now been assigned to the COVID Unit in Sacramento

    As a provider, not a patient, right? Either way, all the best.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  347. DO governors have powers in what amounts to a national-security crisis that the president does not?

    I think so, because a president’s powers are specifically enumerated, and I wouldn’t equate a viral epidemic to an invasion by a foreign power.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  348. Trump administration sent protective medical gear to China while he minimized the virus threat to US

    (CNN) Our doctors and nurses are in desperate need of masks, gloves and other personal protective equipment (PPE) to protect themselves from contracting the coronavirus while treating those who are ill. Some of them are trying to find it on eBay while others are pleading for help on social media.

    The situation is so dire one New Jersey doctor described it as “sending medical professionals like lambs to the slaughterhouse.”

    Concerns about a dwindling supply of PPE are not new. Back on February 7, the World Health Organization sounded alarm bells about “the limited stock of PPE,” noting demand was 100 times higher than normal for this equipment.

    Yet the same day as the WHO warning, the Trump administration announced that it was transporting to China nearly 17.8 tons (more than 35,000 pounds) of “masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials.” As Secretary of State Mike Pompeo noted in the press release announcing this shipment, “These donations are a testament to the generosity of the American people.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  349. The coronavirus recession is exposing how the economy was not strong as it seemed

    For the most part, this isn’t Trump’s doing. But for the most part, this is definitely true. The renter is broke, the landlord is broke, the corporation is broke, the government is broke. Nobody saves money. There is fundamental weakness is our economy. Focusing on the DOW makes it look exciting and energetic but it’s unstable too.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  350. Nobody saves money.

    Actually personal savings rates are about the highest level they’ve been since the mid-90’s.

    Graph

    Real interest rates have remained extremely low during the post-2009 recovery. Much lower than during the previous three economic expansions:

    Graph

    That could occur due to a very high level of savings (more people want to save than want to borrow). But it seems more like the Fed’s doing in this case.

    But regardless, it is a clear disincentive to further savings.

    Dave (1bb933)

  351. Probably most of the spring breakers went back to sweet home Alabama or other places in the South/Midwest, and most of them were in parts of the state not (so far) hit badly by the virus.

    This was posted at HotAir a few days ago.

    Analysis of how the mobile devices on a single Ft. Lauderdale beach on one day of Spring Break spread out over the US in the following week.

    Dave (1bb933)

  352. I hope Sammy is ok.

    mg (8cbc69)

  353. Colonel Klink,

    You were right. That was the same French study. Here is the report from the new study.

    DRJ (15874d)

  354. Dustin (928d9a) — 3/29/2020 @ 10:18 pm

    As usual, you are reading into what I said, and the original article, what you want to read in as opposed to what is actually there.

    The president should not be hostile towards the folks working in hospitals right now facing shortages.

    Can you point to any place in the quote where Trump said it was hospital workers doing this? When he was asked if it was inappropriate use by the hospital workers his reply was that it wasn’t hoarding. The article I read recently says this is people pretending to be workers. They are having to lock down scrubs and implementing single entry checkpoints to prevent impersonators from sneaking in.

    I completely understand that there are examples to defend literally anything Trump could possibly say as ‘accurate’ in some sense.

    I understand that you are in a group of people who need to criticize literally everything Trump does. But in this case, I’m not even saying Trump is accurate. I’m saying the article is inaccurate because it says he’s accusing healthcare workers of hoarding. Now you are saying he is attacking healthcare workers and he is not doing that. The twitter comments linked to the article are also reading their own interpretation of the comments in as fact.

    He is the worst leader I’ve ever seen.

    I’ve asked this numerous times over the past few years. If this is true why is it necessary to lie about what he’s saying?

    frosty (f27e97)

  355. “Hoar* Ding” is a word that would come naturally Trump’s lips. “Pilfering” not as much.

    *(Say it out loud.)

    nk (1d9030)

  356. frosty,

    Nobody’s lying about what Trump said. He is accusing hospital workers of ‘worse’ than hoarding. He’s needlessly picking fights because he can’t make decisions or take responsibility. These guys are in the fight of their lives.

    Now you are saying he is attacking healthcare workers and he is not doing that.

    And the sky isn’t blue.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  357. On a more or less cheerful note
    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLat/status/1244411822423318529

    Kishnevi (20d062)

  358. Oh, that’s such good news, kishnevi.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  359. From Guy Gordon

    Emphasis Mine

    While I want to remain anonymous I do want to be fair and let people know I work for one of the companies in the value stream of making these ventilators but I have no personal knowledge of this project.

    On Friday, the President insinuated General Motors was acting un-patriotically, and was attempting to profiteer from the shortage of life-sustaining ventilators. He invoked the Defense Production Act, ordering them to produce the ventilators. But GM was already far ahead of any other company in moving forward and had in fact made the commitment to produce the ventilators “at cost” with Ventec, a leading ventilator provider.

    Here are the facts:

    Wednesday 3/18: GM Chairperson Mary Barra reaches out to White House Chief Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow and offers GM’s manufacturing and engineering capacity to fulfill the need for medical supplies. (Source: Axios, GM and White House)

    Friday 3/20 GM and Ventec, a ventilator manufacturer from the Seattle area, announce they are undertaking a feasibility project to determine whether they can jointly initiate rapidly expanded production. (GM and Ventec joint release)

    By Monday 3/23 GM and Ventec not only prove feasibility, but designate GM’s former electronics facility in Kokomo, Ind. as the “clean” facility for production. The UAW is asked to begin recruiting volunteers. It’s a labor intensive project and may need as many as 1,000 workers. GM’s purchasing chief informs Barra he has commitments from nearly all the suppliers needed for 700 components. He is confident the remaining 37 components can be sourced. (GM, Axios and Reuters)

    Tuesday 3/24 Axios and Reuters report GM’s incredible progress. Ventec is told to anticipate an announcement from the White House about the impending contract. Ventec is ready to go but has still not received direction from the feds on how many ventilators it is ordering, making cost quotes per unit more difficult to estimate.

    Wednesday 3/25 Without explanation the White House cancels the announcement and Ventec is told there will be no contract. Late that evening Ventec and GM agree to move forward anyway. GM agrees to help clear Ventec’s 20,000 unit back-order at cost. Essentially they agree to build a decade’s worth of ventilators in less than 2 months.

    Thursday 3/26. NYT reports White House balks because they are trying to decide between different vendors who they believe can offer lower cost options. Ventec and GM prepare to announce their formal production agreement on Friday.

    Friday 3/27 President threatens in 2 tweets to invoke “P” (Defense Production Act) against GM. Suggests they should build ventilators at Lordstown, a plant the White House knows GM no longer owns. They are also aware a much more practical electronics plant was chosen for production. He also insults Mary Barra who made the initial offer with prompting from no one.
    Within 90 minutes, Ventec and GM announce their plans for production. They have hired 1,000 workers, a full shift, and have the sourcing to make 200,000 ventilators. They have printed training manuals and intend to start training in the new work week. All of these plans and progress occur well before any implied or actual threat from President Trump.

    Friday Evening: The President announces he is invoking the Defense Production Act. It will not get things built any faster, but does eliminate the red tape normally associated with government contracting.

    His new procurement czar Peter Navarro suggests many “patriotic” companies had come forward, but they hit a roadblock with GM. The President says, “we won’t pay double or triple for ventilators.” Yet GM and Ventec were producing them at cost. Throughout the briefing it’s implied they had difficult discussions with GM. In fact, Ventec is the primary contractor and handled all interaction beyond Barra’s original offer. When asked in opening Q and A whether cost and profit were a factor, the President was very candid. He doesn’t like GM.

    President: “It got to be a debate over cost. We don’t want to think too much about cost when we’re talking about this. This is not about cost. I WASN’T HAPPY WHERE GENERAL MOTORS BUILT PLANTS IN OTHER LOCATIONS (MEXICO) OVER THE YEARS. ….. AND SO I DIDN’T GO INTO IT WITH A VERY FAVORABLE VIEW. I WAS EXTREMELY UNHAPPY WITH LORDSTOWN OHIO. THEY LEFT LORDSTOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AUTO BOOM (in fact, sales of sedans produced at Lordstown were crashing). BECAUSE WE HAD 17 CAR COMPANIES COMING IN (?) AND THEN THEY WERE LEAVING ONE PLANT IN OHIO. I LOVE OHIO AND WHAT HAPPENS, THAT BECAME THE STORY.

    AND FRANKLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO BUILD THE VENTILATORS. AND WE’LL SEE, WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

    SO I WASN’T TOO THRILLED.

    “And then we thought we had a deal for 40,000 ventilators and then it became 6 and price became a big object. But Peter is getting involved… maybe they’ll change their tune.”

    Sadly, the tune has always been the same. GM offered to help and in less than 10 days moved heaven and earth to find a location, hire a workforce, source a 700-part piece of technology, spec it out for suppliers and set employee training in motion. All of this to be delivered at cost, a cost that could have been pinned down better had the Government instructed how many they needed.
    Maximum production for Ventec is 200 ventilators per month. GM was offering to build 100 times that many in a matter of a few months… needing less than a month for re-tooling and training. That is nothing short of incredible. Their thanks was a politically motivated shaming in a nationally televised White House briefing. GM was patriotic. GM was All-American. They will not profit. In fact, they may lose business because of the President’s diatribe. I wonder how many other companies are re-thinking their willingness to step up as a result.
    But on Monday, GM will start making masks in Warren and begin training in Kokomo.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  360. Today, I showed up at Fogey’s Hour and LO AND BEHOLD toilet paper. Kroger brand, admittedly, but still. I had a choice of 4 single rolls or 30 double rolls. Apologies to whoever it was that I chastised for buying the biggest package.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  361. My next vehicle will be a GM product.

    DRJ (15874d)

  362. CNN chyron: ‘When real life is even scarier than fiction’.

    At least it isn’t “Is this Captain Trips?”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  363. My next anything will not be a Chinese product.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  364. I hope to make that stick, too. I boycotted Toshiba for 20 years after they sold advanced milling machines to the USSR.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  365. I quit buying GM when Obama inserted the government in its business. It is only fair that I resume buying GM now that Trump is meddling, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  366. 364. Yet another sorry tale of how Duh Donald “thinks” and makes decisions based on pure crap that could literally kill people.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  367. Nobody saves money.

    Not true, exactly. Nobody saves money as money, with a piddling 1.5% interest rate. But they DO invest in equities. Some even borrow money to invest in equities, which can lead to a bubble. But to say that people are just spending money (like we did in the late 70s when inflation got to double-digits) is wrong.

    Then again, some people spend all they make, and debt on top of that. But that’s not unusual, just stupid.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  368. Good quote, Time123.

    I am not a fan of GM either, but I’m not the president, in a crisis, calmly working with others to get us where we need to be. If only he could go back to January for a do-over, we clearly had enough time. The blame shifting can’t help at this point.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  369. DRJ, It’s just so frustrating. Here we have private companies (GM, Vantac and many many suppliers) trying to help, at cost. What they need is leadership from the White house about how many ventilators they will need to produce and Trump’s task force can’t provide it.

    From the final production numbers will come
    -How many tools need to be built to make component parts.
    -What kind of tools.
    -How many people need to be trained.
    -How many boxes are needed for shipping finished goods and how many trucks to line up for it.

    Even if you’re selling goods at ‘cost’ the details above will determine what that cost is. Especially when the tooling costs can quickly get into the 100 million dollar range

    Time123 (af99e9)

  370. “ For the most part, this isn’t Trump’s doing. But for the most part, this is definitely true.”

    I was looking at this from another angle.

    If this pandemic had hit six years ago, when people (esp blacks) had less jobs and savings per capita the headline would have been:

    CoronaVirus Danger To Obama’s Brilliant Economic Recovery
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  371. Trump would rather bully people (especially women) than do the detail work needed to find the information GM and Ventec needed. He seems very lazy about everything except getting attention.

    DRJ (15874d)

  372. A vaccine is on the horizon — testing starting in September and doses available mid-2021.

    DRJ (15874d)

  373. I can see Campaign Trump promising everyone it will work.

    DRJ (15874d)

  374. “100%”

    DRJ (15874d)

  375. Trump would rather bully people (especially women) than do the detail work needed to find the information GM and Ventec needed. He seems very lazy about everything except getting attention.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/30/2020 @ 8:08 am

    I think he’s very comfortable in a PR fight. Especially one where he can pivot based on a whim.
    I think he’s a lot less comfortable making decisions that commit him to a plan of action where he’ll be accountable.

    Answering how many ventilators we need to order has all sorts of implications and risks.

    He really is an weak and timid leader in any arena beyond PR.

    Time123 (797615)

  376. A vaccine is on the horizon — testing starting in September and doses available mid-2021.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/30/2020 @ 8:12 am

    This is amazing. Not that it really matters I guess, but is this an American accomplishment?

    Dustin (928d9a)

  377. I would like a president who is too busy managing our national emergency to play the blame game. The middle of a crisis isn’t the time for that. I understand there is an election at hand and he is trying to save himself politically, but I think solid focus on the pandemic and ignoring the petty stuff and political games, would go a long way to bolster him in the eyes of the public. Even a president who has not been well-liked during his tenure, could turn things around during a crisis by staying focused only on what really matters, rallying all Americans (not just his base), deferring to the experts, and continually presenting a united front. It seems that in so many ways, Trump continually misses the opportunity to do that, and is instead being small and petty and blaming others for X.

    (Heh: never let a crisis go to waste…)

    Dana (4fb37f)

  378. He is weak, timid, self-absorbed and oblivious. (I could have said hypocrite, cf: Trump calling Pelosi a “Sick Puppy” while lecturing a reporter to “Be nice.” But I think oblivious is a better fit.)

    DRJ (15874d)

  379. Dustin,

    The vaccine is a joint effort of Johnson & Johnson and Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), part of the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response.

    DRJ (15874d)

  380. I quit buying GM when Obama inserted the government in its business. It is only fair that I resume buying GM now that Trump is meddling, too.

    I see this a lot, reality is that the auto bailouts were proposed, passed and signed into law, as well as a number of Executive Orders, by George W Bush. Obama deserves blame for the things he did, but that’s not one, most of the implementation was done under Obama, so he blame is not reversing the Bush bailouts. I still think it was the right thing to do under Bush, and am glad that Obama followed through. Plus, $50B, how quaint.

    Bush approves bailout
    On December 19, George W. Bush announced that he had approved the bailout plan, which would give loans of $17.4 billion to U.S. automakers GM and Chrysler, stating that under present economic conditions, “allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action.” Bush provided $13.4 billion now, with another $4 billion available in February 2009. Funds would be made available from the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. General Motors would get $9.4 billion, and Chrysler $4 billion.

    However, it had been argued that the Treasury lacked the statutory authority to direct TARP funds to the automakers, since TARP is limited to “financial institutions” under Section 102 of the TARP. It was also argued that providing TARP funds to automaker’s financing operations, such as GMAC, runs counter to the intent of Congress for limiting TARP funds to true “financial institutions”.[83] On December 19, 2008, President Bush used his executive authority to declare that TARP funds may be spent on any program he personally deems necessary to avert the financial crisis, and declared Section 102 to be nonbinding

    .

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  381. @361 I notice that you haven’t added any quote.

    True statement: I’m inferring that Trump is accusing hospital staff.

    True statement: Trump didn’t actually accuse hospital staff.

    False statement: Trump said hospital workers were doing something inappropriate or illegal.

    That is an opinion piece pretending to be news. The headline of the article says Trump speculates that hospital workers are hoarding, has no quote where he blames hospital staff, and includes a quote of him saying it’s not hoarding. You’ve inferred something from what he said and are now stating it as fact.

    I get into this with you a lot. Criticizing this statement about Trump is not saying anything about Trump. It’s saying something about the people making the inaccurate statements.

    Is it that hard for you to at least consider that you’re basing your argument on an inference? Your sky is blue reference strongly suggests that it is. Criticize him all day but at least hold on to some objectivity and critical thinking skills.

    frosty (f27e97)

  382. Today, I showed up at Fogey’s Hour and LO AND BEHOLD toilet paper.

    Sounds like the start of a lucrative eBay business venture!

    :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  383. frosty,

    I’m just not interested. If you want to find some interesting way to interpret Trump’s remarks that the rest of the world doesn’t agree with, be my guest. It’s clear there’s no way we’re going to discuss it without you trying to keep it in the tone you keep going back to, and no way I can reply without being very honest about what I think of that, which ain’t much.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  384. On December 19, George W. Bush announced that he had approved the bailout plan, which would give loans of $17.4 billion to U.S. automakers GM and Chrysler, stating that under present economic conditions, “allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action.”

    Wait, what?

    17 BILLION?

    With a “B”?!

    What a piker!

    President Trump is sooo much more generous!!!

    Dave (1bb933)

  385. The vaccine is a joint effort of Johnson & Johnson and Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), part of the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/30/2020 @ 8:29 am

    God bless them even if it doesn’t work. I bet they’ve had some very long days lately.

    I see this a lot, reality is that the auto bailouts were proposed, passed and signed into law, as well as a number of Executive Orders, by George W Bush.

    The Government Motors thing is also intended to distinguish Ford from GM and Chrysler. I have to say it’s hard to be mad at GM for taking government help when they turn around and try to help the country (and of course Ford’s trying too). Bush made a lot of compromises that, to me, show he could see the big picture. He definitely wasn’t a budget hawk (compared to today he was).

    Trump has called Bush the worst president in history and we’re seeing that, no matter how you rank them, they are basically opposites in how they handle a crisis.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  386. Dustin (928d9a) — 3/30/2020 @ 8:02 am

    Good quote, Time123.

    You could learn a lot from Time123. You’d get less criticism and more respect following his example. That is a good comment, it points out a serious flaw in Trump’s leadership style and decision making, it’s fact-based and objective, etc. It also belies a larger underlying issue. If the Trump admin wants to bring US manufacturing back this isn’t the way to do it. If you are a Trump critic this is an important point to make because a lot of his supporters also want to decouple from China and bring some manufacturing back.

    There’s an old lawyer rule about juries. It’s more effective to create a situation where the jury makes the decision you want them to make on their own. This works for sales too because it’s playing into a cognitive effect. People value decisions they think they’ve made higher than those of others. It’s less effective to tell them what they should decide. It’s even less effective when you undermine your own credibility in the process. Insulting people’s ability to make up their own mind while telling them what they should think after undermining your own credibility is some sort of unholy trifecta.

    frosty (f27e97)

  387. I had a choice of 4 single rolls or 30 double rolls. Apologies to whoever it was that I chastised for buying the biggest package.

    Single or 2-ply? Be careful out there!

    Colonel Haiku (9e91a2)

  388. Bush started the automaker bailout but I was referring to Obama’s actions in the GM bankruptcy to help the UAW.

    I also objected to the government’s actions in the Chrysler bankruptcy but I have never bought a Chrysler. I bought a Fiat once. Terrible engine but I learned to drive a stick shift and it was a fun car to play in.

    DRJ (15874d)

  389. There is a new post up serving as an open thread about HHS, vaccine testing.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  390. frosty, are you saying that Trump saying it is “worse than hoarding” is the same as saying “it is not hoarding”?

    DRJ (15874d)

  391. “I would like a president who is too busy managing our national emergency to play the blame game. The middle of a crisis isn’t the time for that.”

    Over three years of a news media playing the blame game on everything from the fantastic (smear dossier) to how he feeds koi in a state ceremony has rendered his skin, which was already thin, into tissue.

    Crying wolf repeatedly for years hasn’t just resulted in millions of Americans tuning out the media, it’s made a petulant President even much more so.

    There are two sides to this relationship and on one side we have a child and on the other a playpen.

    Meanwhile the nation reaps the whirlwind.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  392. Harkin, I can’t say you’re wrong. The press has their agenda. That was a problem for Bush in Katrina (and other crisis). For some reason it wasn’t as much a problem for Obama.

    And that’s why Republicans found Newt Gingrich and then Trump so appealing. Finally someone who would fight back. There’s gotta be some savvy about how they go about it.

    I’m not remotely representative of the nation. It’s been 16 years since they elected a president I actually like and that trend is guaranteed to continue. But I do think my irritation at Trump’s constant fighting is going to be a big problem for him. Suddenly Biden’s strategy of hiding in his medical stasis pod is a winner.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  393. “ Single or 2-ply? Be careful out there”

    Living-at-home 25 year olds who cringe at their parents choice of inferior coffee beans had nothing on my father.

    What Anthony Blunt was to Poussin, my Pops was to TP. The look on his face when I purchased the wrong buttwipe conveyed both shame and pity. I was relieved of that duty about three years before he passed

    On the bright side, because of his knowledge and the fact he was a hoarder, I have over 40 rolls of five-star tissue in the garage.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  394. “ Suddenly Biden’s strategy of hiding in his medical stasis pod is a winner”
    _ _

    Also hiding is any inclination for the media to provide honest evaluation of Joe.

    Joe Biden
    @JoeBiden

    As president, I will always choose hope over fear, unity over division, truth over lies, and science over fiction.
    __ _

    Mulder’s Lying Dog
    @proteinwisdom

    Also, Mitt Romney’s gonna put y’all back in chains!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  395. Frosty, thank you for the kind words. I have a question; I thought belies meant to hide or to fail to justify.

    It also belies a larger underlying issue. = It also fails to justify a larger underlying issue.

    It’s not a word I use regularly so I’m honestly not sure if that’s what you mean….

    Time123 (af99e9)

  396. Also hiding is any inclination for the media to provide honest evaluation of Joe.

    They never got honest about why Trump was elected. Sure, I think trump’s the worst and I get annoyed with what’s necessary to defend him, but the guy shouldn’t have been electable. When the press treated Obama to literal halos and Bush like he’s both a monkey and Hitler, it’s hard for people to invest the time and energy in sorting out truth from the news. The low respect they have for any journalist opens up opportunities for competitors, both good (like this blog) and bad (like spam on facebook).

    The more tilted the media is, the more exposed they are to surprises. Biden is such a bad candidate I actually feel sorry for him. The amount of obvious comparisons the press will ignore this year will probably drive Trump’s fans nuts. That everything said of Biden will be said of Trump will make this an annoying pair of stupid campaigns that aren’t about anything.

    I hope a decent third party candidate announces. It could actually work this year.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  397. Harkin, I can’t say you’re wrong. The press has their agenda. That was a problem for Bush in Katrina (and other crisis). For some reason it wasn’t as much a problem for Obama.

    I agree.

    felipe (023cc9)

  398. Having experienced European toilet paper, both the wax and the 60-grit, all I care about is that it doesn’t clog the toilet.

    nk (1d9030)

  399. harkin (b64479) — 3/30/2020 @ 9:22 am

    I worked with some of my parents cohort. At the time, I found it vexing because they reminded me of my parents, but later (about the same time I found my parents smarter and wiser) I realized that it was a privilege.

    These members of the Greatest Generation never let me throw away any used foil, and were horrified when I rejected a perfectly fine piece because it was crooked. At the same time, they would, IMO, pay too much for little things like butter or coffee. I do likewise today because I can now appreciate quality.
    When my time with them cane to an end, I found myself emulating both their frugality and enjoyment of the quality of the little things in life.

    felipe (023cc9)

  400. DRJ (15874d) — 3/30/2020 @ 9:05 am

    I’m saying:

    He isn’t “attacking” healthcare workers because he didn’t say anything about healthcare workers doing this. This is an inference by the author of the article and it is presented as fact. It was then continued as fact by several of the twitter comments linked to the article and by comments here.

    When he was asked a followup question he said: not hoarding but worse.

    From these two things, the article from the UK about people sneaking into hospitals, etc. I infer that to mean stealing and I’m honest enough to say it is an inference. I don’t infer this to be exclusive to healthcare workers. To answer your question stealing is not hoarding and I consider stealing worse than hoarding. Hoarding implies the healthcare workers are doing this for themselves based on irrational fear. Stealing implies a wider range of possible motives and activities. You can certainly steal items you intend to hoard but these are different things. If a healthcare worker were taking extra, e.g. to make sure they had extra masks for their shift, I wouldn’t call that worse than hoarding. If someone is taking this out the backdoor, i.e. they are leaving the hospital, then we’ve got stealing and that’s worse than hoarding.

    But it wasn’t my intention to opine on this element of the article. My intent was to point out that the article is inaccurate. It is opinion reported as fact to push an agenda. The fact that this went right for the pearl-clutching how-dare-he position gives it away.

    Are these increases reasonable? We don’t know because that’s been taken off the table as a ridiculous attack on healthcare workers. Are people stealing PPE? It sounds like they are but we also can’t talk about that now either. And we can’t talk about that because of inaccurate Trump criticism not because of Trump. We have to assume these numbers are obviously reasonable simply because Trump speculates that they may not be. You don’t see any problem with that type of sloppy reasoning?

    Here’s an example from the article of more sloppy reasoning:

    Part of the reason for the increased use is that patients infected with Covid-19 are highly contagious, and the virus is transmitted through aerosolized water droplets in a patient’s breath. Recommendations from the CDC and other health experts say [that for] every single interaction with a suspected coronavirus patient, a medical provider should wear a new mask and other PPE. Under normal circumstances, not all emergency room or intensive care patients would require such equipment.

    These are almost all true statements. But does this explain the increase from 20k/wk to 200k/wk? No, it doesn’t. It explains an increase and hedges it with “part”. Which part? It also incorrectly states the CDC recommendations. Here is what the CDC actually says:

    Implement extended use of facemasks.

    Extended use of facemasks is the practice of wearing the same facemask for repeated close contact encounters with several different patients, without removing the facemask between patient encounters.

    Any idea how long it took me to fact check that? It was the second hit when I googled “cdc says each covid interaction should consume a mask”. Now that you know this article is an opinion piece with inaccurate information what would you call continuing to repeat the underlying information as fact?

    You don’t need to be Trumphumper to notice the poor quality of this article, the obviously biased reasoning, the inaccurate information, etc.

    frosty (f27e97)

  401. Time123 (af99e9) — 3/30/2020 @ 9:31 am

    I was incorrectly using that word. I was looking for a short way to say points to an underlying issue that is going unnoticed.

    frosty (f27e97)

  402. Having experienced European toilet paper, both the wax and the 60-grit, all I care about is that it doesn’t clog the toilet.

    When I travel, in the US or internationally, I take my Charmin Ultra Gentle with me. There is nothing worse than the basic marine dissolvable TP, it’s so bad that I added a bidet on our boat. I did find that there is a Charmin Ultra Soft for RV that is only marginally bad.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  403. It also belies a larger underlying issue. = It also fails to justify a larger underlying issue.

    It’s not a word I use regularly so I’m honestly not sure if that’s what you mean….
    Time123 (af99e9) — 3/30/2020 @ 9:31 am

    I thought it was a malapropism, in the tradition of Norm Crosby.

    felipe (023cc9)

  404. I was incorrectly using that word. I was looking for a short way to say points to an underlying issue that is going unnoticed.
    frosty (f27e97) — 3/30/2020 @ 10:10 am

    “bespeaks.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  405. 404 – Felipe
    I second that.

    mg (8cbc69)

  406. “Bemoans,” works as well, depending on the intended nuance.

    felipe (023cc9)

  407. Here is a two’fer. Norm and “Biden-language.”

    Ha. Biden was treating people with “tenderness and affliction.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  408. felipe (023cc9) — 3/30/2020 @ 10:16 am

    Yep, a better rendition would have been “It also speaks to a larger …”. That speaks to my intent and avoids obscure words while still having a fancy pants sort of flare.

    frosty (f27e97)

  409. When I travel, in the US or internationally, I take my Charmin Ultra Gentle with me.

    Elitist! The Ugly American…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  410. Elitist! The Ugly American…

    I know I’m visually challenging, but my butt is comfy, so I’ll take it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  411. Some of us remember going to the out-house. I can’t imagine todays population wiping with the sears and roebucks catalogue.
    Maybe the NYT.

    mg (8cbc69)

  412. Not the NYT, you’d risk syphilis…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  413. Some of us remember going to the out-house. I can’t imagine todays population wiping with the sears and roebucks catalogue.
    Maybe the NYT.

    I was 16 when my grandparents got honest to god running water and flushing toilets, I remember using the chamber pot as a child, they lived in the deepest of Appalachia, and that was common, raise the water with a rope and a bucket from a stone well in the back yard. My grandfather always had the best TP he could get though, specifically because it was an attainable luxury.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  414. This may be of interest to readers: I spoke with a doctor friend this weekend and he said that his health care organization had 20 million masks come in on Saturday but FEMA confiscated them, leaving doctors/nurses at risk as others will get their masks. When I asked why FEMA would take them, he said that they want to control hot spot supplies thinking they’ll be able to replenish them when needed. He is also concerned that they will take their ventilator backups, because he believes they won’t get them back. “In essence, they would be triaging our patients to die.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  415. This may be of interest to readers: I spoke with a doctor friend this weekend and he said that his health care organization had 20 million masks come in on Saturday but FEMA confiscated them, leaving doctors/nurses at risk as others will get their masks. When I asked why FEMA would take them, he said that they want to control hot spot supplies thinking they’ll be able to replenish them when needed. He is also concerned that they will take their ventilator backups, because he believes they won’t get them back. “In essence, they would be triaging our patients to die.”

    In theory, this is the way it should happen, house the supplies in regionally centralized stockpiles, where you ship out what is needed immediately, but also keep a handle on what the total stock is, and what the consumption rates are. The issue is everyone has to be on the same page, and you have to have trust both up and down the chain of command. Right now, the folks at the end of the chain have seen the federal response as being anemic, and very late, so there’s not much trust. That’s why the FEMA leadership needs to be over communicating and bending over backward to win the hearts and minds. They’re in the hole now, that’s how you get out.

    At this point just telling the locals that they must comply is the wrong move, they have to truly convince them that they believe we’re all in this together. Sometimes leadership is accepting the blame, even when you might not have caused it, so you can move forward.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  416. Taking all 20 million is the wrong move regardless of situation unless the masks are bad.

    I can’t believe anyone besides a govt. bureaucrat would think is a good idea.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  417. These members of the Greatest Generation never let me throw away any used foil, and were horrified when I rejected a perfectly fine piece because it was crooked.“

    I’m with you all the way here. Both my parents were children of the Depression and they inherited from their parents the basic state of ‘saving lot and wasting not’. From my mom I inherited the habit of cooking bacon on the same piece of foil at least three times before I throw it out.

    I’ve lost out on most big financial killings but I also never lost more than 7% in the big drops.

    Cold-bolded as it may seem I’m just waiting for feeling confident enough to jump back in. I waited too long after 2008.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  418. Let me confess that I have made a small bit of money these past few weeks from short-trading. I never boast about it because co many find it an abhorrent practice. But with near-zero interest, and a falling market, this is what is left of most opportunities. Not until the market is long past the bottom, will I be a be a buy and hold investor.

    felipe (023cc9)

  419. Cheers, felipe.

    mg (8cbc69)

  420. Leave it to the Babylon Bee to have a headline which recognizes not only the financial but also the TP situation…..


    Toilet Paper Crisis Solved As Government Prints Trillions Of Fresh, Soft Dollar Bills

    https://babylonbee.com/news/government-sends-out-1000-to-each-citizen-so-theyll-have-something-to-wipe-with-after-money-loses-all-value
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  421. Frosty, thank you for clarifying. TBH, I wasn’t sure I just didn’t understand how to use that word in a sentence. 😀

    Time123 (af99e9)

  422. Again, I work for a company that’s involved with this project but have no personal knowledge beyond what’s reported in the media.

    And Trump “invoked the P” on Friday. In reality that did NOTHING, it authorized agencies to implement “the P”. Guess what those agencies didn’t do, because GM was already going as fast as possible?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  423. The Arizona woman who said that she and her 68-year-old husband ingested a substance used to clean fish tanks after hearing President Donald Trump tout chloroquine as a cure for the coronavirus has given thousands of dollars to Democratic groups and candidates over the last two years.

    The woman’s most recent donations, in late February, were to a Democratic PAC, the 314 Action Fund, that bills itself as the “pro-science resistance” and has vocally criticized the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic and held up her case to slam the White House

    Wanda’s most recent contributions to Democratic causes came on Feb. 26 and 28. They went to the 314 Action Fund, a Democratic political action committee that describes itself as “the largest pro-science advocacy organization committed to electing scientists” and aims to “promote the responsible use of data driven fact based approaches in public policy.”

    The group has been highly critical of Trump’s coronavirus policies in recent weeks. In fact, on its Facebook page, the group slammed the Trump administration for the couple’s actions, writing, “There are real consequences to the White House throwing its approval behind an experimental drug trial before it’s time.”

    In the wake of the incident, media outlets tacitly blamed Trump for the tragedy. The New York Times noted that chloroquine “has been bandied about by President Trump during White House briefings on the coronavirus pandemic as a potential ‘game changer’ in the treatment of Covid-19.” Others, like Axios, ran corrections noting that the couple had not ingested the chloroquine in its medical form but rather the form “used in aquariums” after initially reporting that the couple had followed the president’s faulty medical advice.

    https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  424. Darwin Award candidates in more ways than one…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  425. Good on you, Felipe. Your video gaming skills should serve you well in this next arena.

    urbanleftbehind (3b0444)

  426. It’s not enough that Trump’s advice killed her husband. Now the same crew that attacks everybody is going to run her through the mud.

    Sexual harassment charge against Joe Biden? You’re a hero. Against someone on Team Trump? Oh then everything in your life will be twisted.

    If being a prolific donor to democratic causes means you’re dumb… what’s that say about President Corona?

    Dustin (928d9a)

  427. Time123, this is like Nero going out on the porch of his villa and rebuking a thunderstorm.

    Both Duh Donald and Nero would, naturally, take credit when the sun comes out.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  428. She wasn’t fiddlin’, she was diddlin’…

    https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1244367217912881160

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  429. To those who have approvingly cited Tom Nichols and used him as a cudgel to attack their political opponents, this is who he really is:

    https://twitter.com/radiofreetom/status/1244738668088250368

    Is this a better man than the one you hate? Is he worthy of your respect and trust?

    NJRob (4d595c)


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