Patterico's Pontifications

3/26/2020

President Trump To Introduce New Coronavirus Guidelines

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:48 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Working toward his goal of having the economy up and running by Easter (April 12), President Trump is proposing new guidelines based on geographic risk:

President Trump said in a letter to U.S. governors on Thursday that his administration is working to publish new guidelines for state and local governments to use when making decisions about “maintaining, increasing or relaxing social distancing and other mitigation measures” for the coronavirus epidemic.

Trump said officials are gathering testing data that will suggest guidelines categorizing counties as “high risk, medium risk or low risk” for the virus. The data will drive “the next phase” of the response, he said.

Here is the critical part of his letter:

This is what we envision: Our expanding testing capabilities will quickly enable us to publish criteria, developed in close coordination with the Nation’s public health officials and scientists, to help classify counties with respect to continued risk posed by the virus. This will incorporate robust surveillance testing, which allows us to monitor the spread of the virus throughout the country. Under these data-driven criteria, we will suggest guidelines categorizing counties as high-risk, medium-risk, or low-risk.

With each passing day, our increasingly extensive testing capabilities are giving us a better understanding of the virus and its path. As testing gives us more information about who has been infected, we are tracking the virus and isolating it to prevent further spread. This new information will drive the next phase in our war against this invisible enemy.

This comes one day after Dr. Anthony Fauci cautioned about setting any sort of timetable:

You’ve got to understand that you don’t make the timeline, the virus makes the timeline. So you’ve got to respond in what you see happen. And if you keep seeing this acceleration, it doesn’t matter what you say. One week, two weeks, three weeks — you’ve got to go with what the situation on the ground is.

CNN notes that a task force member said that the guidelines were a work in progress, and that, surprisingly-not-surprisingly, not all the members of the White House coronavirus task force saw the President’s letter before it was released publicly.

While Trump wants to see businesses up and running, he said in a news conference today that social distancing measures should still be observed when Americans returned to work:

“When we are open, as soon as we open, that doesn’t mean you will be stop the guidelines. You will still try and distance yourself. Maybe not to the same extent because you have to lead a life, but the timing is coming,”

On his conference call with governers, the President again reiterated his view that

the country needs to reopen soon and that not every place needs to be under the same restrictions…[and] said certain places had almost no problems with the virus and shouldn’t be kept to the same restrictions as areas with high case loads.

–Dana

241 Responses to “President Trump To Introduce New Coronavirus Guidelines”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. This further confirms my prediction that the Easter date is typical Trump BS. They are “working to publish new guidelines.” Well that will take a while. (Not that this is a bad thing.)

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  3. We will have different levels of restrictions until all places have a high case load.

    Time123 (d54166)

  4. I don’t know, Bored Lawyer. Everything is subject to the whim of Trump. For better or worse, everything around him can change on a dime. It’s unbelievable (and yet so believeable) every members of the task force wasn’t given a view of the letter before its public release. What input did they have? Would they have changed the wording in any way, warned him it was too soon to make such changes, etc?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  5. On his conference call with governers, the President against reiterated his view that

    Dana, I suggest “again reiterated” is what you meant.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  6. I worry about politicized “science” driving this “new” policy.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  7. Thx, Ragspierre.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  8. President Trump is proposing new guidelines based on geographic risk…

    Coronavirus was unavailable for comment.

    “Andromeda will spread everywhere! They’ll never be rid of it!” – Dr. Jeremy Stone [Arthur Hill] ‘The Andromeda Strain’ 1971

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. Is anybody noticing slowed-down internet speeds?

    I’ve heard that Europe’s net speeds have slowed but I haven’t (knock wood) experienced any difference. I have what most would consider sub-par speeds because we are fed on copper over a half mile from the service’s optical node but it’s always been good enough to provide my audio and video streams.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  10. @8

    Do you think there is a reason why densely populated areas like New York have a much higher incidence than sparsely populated areas?

    Might it therefore be the case that what is justified for NYC is not justified for a rural or suburban enclave elsewhere?

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  11. I worry about politicized “science” driving this “new” policy.

    We are so close to finding agreement. I worry about politicized science driving policy generally and not just about this.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  12. Obviously there many rural counties in the US that have low population and no cases of Covid, but they also have little industry which is the reason that they have low population in the first place. In Illinois, where I have some family, it is fairly common for farmers to commute to industrial centers to work in addition to farming. Mercer county, for instance, is quite agricultural, many commute to Moline to work at John Deere. If restrictions are lifted in Mercer county, there is a real risk that its status as an island of safety won’t last. Unless the people are confined to their home county which results in almost no improvement in the national picture. If being confined in your home hurts the national economy, being confined in a low population, low industry doesn’t help very much.

    Fred (25e171)

  13. Bet you never thought you’d see this headline:

    The world’s on the brink of running out of places to put oil

    The oil market has been hammered by falling demand as a result of the coronavirus outbreak, and as Saudi Arabia vows to flood the market with crude at deep discounts, following the collapse of the coalition of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and allies including Russia. On Thursday, Pakistan banned imports of crude and fuels because its storage sites are full. Vitol Group and Gunvor Group, two of the world’s top merchants, say there’s heavy interest in storing while several traders have booked supertankers to hoard barrels at sea.”

    https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/the-worlds-on-the-brink-of-running-out-of-places-to-put-oil
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  14. The world’s on the brink of running out of places to put oil

    Expand the strategic reserve. Fill swimming pools. Drench Iowa.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  15. I remember a glut from at least 20 years ago where a friend in the oil industry said :

    “We’re buying and we’re pumping it into the ground under our played-out wells.”
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  16. Translation: let’s take the places where social distancing could really prevent an outbreak and make Petri dishes out of them, while basically having no idea what is actually happening because the testing is still not widespread enough.

    Heckuva job

    Patterico (115b1f)

  17. How about this, Trump: stop pretending like it’s not a problem, set a serious tone, let the health professionals help guide local decisionmaking, and keep your damn stupid mouth shut.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  18. In this instance, I am consoled by the fact that Trump always promises the Moon and delivers a slice of cheese. What he says is very unlikely to be actually implemented once sane people are tasked with implementing it. Meantime, his MAGAs will remember the blather as the deed and that will be good enough for him.

    nk (1d9030)

  19. The lockdown should continue until one of two things happen: Either the number of new cases decreases so that the hospital system can manage them, or the capacity of the hospital system is increased sufficiently.

    Neither of these things will happen by April 12, but *might* happen by some time in May. The easiest thing for us to do is make enough equipment and supplies to weather the storm. Also useful would be calling up everyone who has ever served as a military corpsman, allowing anyone who is a retired or otherwise inactive doctor or nurse to practice, and anyone who has other medical training to be an assistant, even if they are only providing comfort care.

    The idea that we will wait 18 months is ludicrous and suicidal. Anyone who things that a depression is OK probably has their own iron rice bowl. Not that such a thing would matter in the end.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. I’ve heard that Europe’s net speeds have slowed but I haven’t (knock wood) experienced any difference.

    Europe has “net neutrality” which discourages building network capacity. We don’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. @17. Gee, I dunno– I really miss President Nixon’s daily pressers directing Kranz, Lunney and Kraft on how to get Apollo 13 home. And he gave ’em all Medals of Freedom, too– just like Doctor Rushbo!

    “I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”- Rush Limbaugh, 3-24-2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. “I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”- Rush Limbaugh, 3-24-2020

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/26/2020 @ 6:30 pm

    Give that man a medal.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  23. New York has all these cases because Mayor Sh1t-for-brains told everyone to go on with their lives, it wasn’t a big deal, when everyone else was staying home. It took the NY governor to override the mayor but significant damage was already done.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. It’s still wise to presume that every word coming out of Trump’s orifice is false until proven true. Nothing is going to happen until the numbers change, and they’re still going up significantly in most places.
    Over at Tyler Cowen’s site, you can’t have a labor market until mass testing has taken place:

    As with the financial crisis, there are some bad risks out there but no one knows where and so every borrower/worker is suspect and no one is lending/working. With more information we can separate out the bad risks and get the majority of people working again.
    To be clear, things are going to get worse but there is a reasonable scenario for recovery. Social distancing, including all the shutdowns, will start to show an effect in a week or two. With luck and effort we may stop SFO, Seattle and NYC from going critical and we can then start to bend the curve nationally. If we greatly expand testing, it’s possible that we can get people back to work in one or two months. That will not end the crisis–a fall rebound is possible and we can expect outbreaks. But if we test quickly and widely at the first sign of an outbreak, outbreaks can be contained. A vaccine is also possible and perhaps faster than most people think. Treatments will also improve. Testing and tracing buys us time.
    We can get the economy back on track. Testing, isolating and tracing will do it much faster and cheaper than dealing with a prolonged recession.

    And funny thing: Bill Gates is saying pretty much the same thing right now on Anderson Cooper.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  25. Do you think there is a reason why densely populated areas like New York have a much higher incidence than sparsely populated areas?

    Might it therefore be the case that what is justified for NYC is not justified for a rural or suburban enclave elsewhere?

    Of course that’s true. Which is probably why some governors are not fans of statewide lockdowns (like mine in Florida).

    At the same time those areas may well have trouble getting access to testing, and their hospitals may be that much less ready to handle an influx of cases if they do get hit.

    I expect the guidelines will be rational and thought out, and that Red will complain they are too strict, and Blue complain that they are not strict enough, and that Trump will complain no matter what they say.

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  26. I’ve told you before that, where I’m at anyway, Comcast has doubled the internet speed at no extra cost due to President Trump’s Coronavirus lockdown. I’m signed up for a nominal 15 Mbps and I’m getting, according to my Roku, a measured 29 Mbps.

    nk (1d9030)

  27. @21. Correction: “I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”- Rush Limbaugh, 2-24-2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. It is really amazing how many people think they have a medical degree. And it’s not just Republicans. Democrats can be just as stupid.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. Also useful would be calling up everyone who has ever served as a military corpsman, allowing anyone who is a retired or otherwise inactive doctor or nurse to practice, and anyone who has other medical training to be an assistant, even if they are only providing comfort care.

    My closer to 64 than 63 years old cousin volunteered to assist at a local hospital. They told her she was too old. You know, high risk?

    nk (1d9030)

  30. R.I.P. Curly Neal of the Harlem Globetrotters

    I saw him play with the Globetrotters in 1979. He was FANTASTIC.

    Icy (6abb50)

  31. I hope everyone here makes wise choices and does well!

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  32. 28.It is really amazing how many people think they have a medical degree.

    And have a radio and webcast program to dispense their medical wisdom to the masses on the planet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. March 26 (Reuters) – The coronavirus pandemic could kill more than 81,000 people in the United States in the next four months and may not subside until June, according to a data analysis done by University of Washington School of Medicine.

    The number of hospitalized patients is expected to peak nationally by the second week of April, though the peak may come later in some states. Some people could continue to die of the virus as late as July, although deaths should be below epidemic levels of 10 per day by June at the latest, according to the analysis.

    The analysis, using data from governments, hospitals and other sources, predicts that the number of U.S. deaths could vary widely, ranging from as low as around 38,000 to as high as around 162,000.

    https://news.trust.org/item/20200326232240-2yx1f

    Now, considering that the flu kills 35-50K annually, year in and year out, 81K dead from this much more dangerous disease would be getting off easy. The figures we had going into this were 200K – 1.7 million if we did nothing.

    If this is mostly over in June, and “merely” 81K die, Trump’s approval rating should go through the sky. It won’t because his opponents will move the goalposts, but it would still be a great result.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. In the UK, they asked for 250,000 volunteers with any medical experience to help with the coming influx. They got 500,000.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. Democrat governors are ordering gun stores closed. In New Mexico the state police have been ordered to stop by local gun stores and make SURE they are closed. It’s the only retail outlets that are being treated that way, in a state where guns are really quite popular.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. @30. Saw him play along w/Meadowlark Lemon in Britain back in the ’69 or ’70 when the Globetrotters were on tour. Still remember them chanting, “London! London! London!” passing the ball around.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. The idea that we will wait 18 months is ludicrous and suicidal.

    So much so that I can’t recall anyone suggesting it.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  38. Democrat governors are ordering gun stores closed. In New Mexico the state police have been ordered to stop by local gun stores and make SURE they are closed. It’s the only retail outlets that are being treated that way, in a state where guns are really quite popular.

    In Kentucky the gun stores are closing because they’re sold out. Most of the LGS have been out of ammo for a couple of weeks, and only had a few fairly expensive gats in stock, HK Mk23’s in my LGS for a mere $2k, and some SCARs for $4k, have both, not worth half that. Buds (don’t do it) and KYGunCo are still getting direct shipment of ammo and guns, but it’s really limited. All the ranges are closed too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  39. Well here in Broward, gun stores are among the businesses exempted from the stay-at-home order. And it’s not like we are lacking Democrats around here.

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  40. If this is mostly over in June, and “merely” 81K die, Trump’s approval rating should go through the sky. It won’t because his opponents will move the goalposts, but it would still be a great result.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/26/2020 @ 6:46 pm

    I think if that happens Trump’s approval will go way up, and he will be re-elected, and though the economy would be damaged, in a way it will be like a brush fire clearing for growth. There would be a sense of relative recovery.

    All I ask of Trump is to hush up and try to realize this isn’t about him. The more he makes it about himself the worse decisions the government has made.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  41. I suppose it is not humanly possible to get him to understand that the more he acts as if he doesn’t care about being re-elected, the more likely he will be re-elected.

    Perhaps heavenly intervention….paging St Jude…

    Kishnevi (4e0188)

  42. I’m glad to hear that, Kishnevi. Those Covids are tough little buggers, and when they attack in mass, you need all the firepower you can muster.

    nk (1d9030)

  43. Did you catch my comment yesterday about Uncle’s wife passing away?

    nk (1d9030)

  44. Oh nk, she looked to be so young and happy. How awful.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  45. Yes, they are a young family, Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. I wonder what caused it? My prayers for her husband and kids. I just can’t imagine…

    Dana (4fb37f)

  47. The Washington Post
    @washingtonpost

    Trump trails Fauci by 26 percent in public approval of coronavirus response
    _ _

    commonsense
    @commonsense258
    Replying to @washingtonpost

    And you all trail both
    __ _

    Cocaine Mitch’s Pager
    @ColumbianMitch
    ·
    Here’s the best part…
    Fauci: “Media should stop ‘pitting’ me against Trump”
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  48. Fauci: “Media should stop ‘pitting’ me against Trump”

    He’s got a good point. Even under the most anti-trump perspective, if you like how Fauci is doing and think Trump would do far worse without him, we need to just keep what good leaders we have doing what they are doing. This administration is unstable, and people quit or get fired over press coverage.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  49. Or maybe just seeking discord during a pandemic if it damages Trump is as infantile and damaging as they believe Trump is.

    The media has lower numbers for a reason.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  50. @34. Old news. In more ways than one. The NHS maintains a contingency plan for calling up retired medical people on the books. A “Dad’s Army.” Helps to have an organized infrastructure in place w/a system to manage, pivot and plan and deliver services to the citizenry. Score UKNHS 1 – USA 0.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ_4cpwcqnQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQwHb1pWPE

    “Who do you think you are kidding Mister Hitler….”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. @49. Pffft. The ‘media’ doesn’t need to help Trump on that score. All you have to do is cough or sneeze and Captain Queeg becomes Captain Parmenter before you can wipe your nose and the tears laughter from your eyes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Did you catch my comment yesterday about Uncle’s wife passing away?

    Just saw it. Awful.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  53. Anybody who thinks that the media is anything more than frustrated paperback writers and untalented actors selling dog food and toilet paper is probably a Trump voter anyway, so what difference does it make?

    nk (1d9030)

  54. Or maybe just seeking discord during a pandemic if it damages Trump is as infantile and damaging as they believe Trump is.

    I think it’s the job of journalists, and frankly it actually reduces panic, if they hold our government accountable. I believe one of the reasons the administration finally got moving on this pandemic was pressure from the press. On the other hand, of course no matter what they do they will be challenged over it.

    And yes, they do believe Trump is thin skinned. I keep thinking about that soft ball question where the guy as Trump what he would tell Americans who are scared. Any commenter at this blog could answer that pretty well, but to trump, that idea that he needed to address Americans and reassure them… it literally didn’t matter. The only thing that mattered to Trump was that the question suggested America isn’t paradise under Trump, so he blew up at the reporter. That kind of thing is really bad for public trust and it does tend to fuel the media’s contempt for Trump.

    They were hard on Bush too, but a lot of reporters had respect for Bush as a person. That’s a little something called “politics”.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  55. Proposed new Coronavirus guidelines are being developed.

    The actual coronavirus guidelines remain in place.

    1. Refer to the amazing progress thus far under the president’s diligent and inspiring leadership.
    2. If confusioon develops, refer to guideline 1.

    John B Boddie (286277)

  56. Holy crap I hope some of you just caught that amazing light show from the rocket launch earlier today.

    https://twitter.com/Physicsastrono9/status/1241287241592442880?s=20

    My friend called and said the stars were going nuts. What a show!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  57. Whoops the date on that video was mar 21.

    I have no idea which launch it was but watching six stars (satellites) in a row traveling over the sky was surreal

    harkin (b64479)

  58. Did anybody else see it?

    The friend who called me was in Idaho and I’m in NoCal and we were basically seeing the same thing although at different angles so it had to be up there.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  59. “ I think it’s the job of journalists, and frankly it actually reduces panic, if they hold our government accountable”

    It is their job if they do it out of true journalistic practice and not out of……what’s that word…..politics.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  60. Example:

    Jim Acosta
    @Acosta
    ·
    Another example of Trump minimizing the Coronavirus: “I just spoke to two people who had it. They never went to a doctor.”
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    That’s straight from CDC recommendations for young or healthy people. You’re doing great Jim.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  61. Trump tells Hannity he doesn’t understand why Cuomo is asking for so many ventilators, which are expensive. He says some hospitals only have one (?). “Now all of a sudden everybody is asking for these vast numbers.”

    Trump just repeated this thought, and then: “It’s a very bad situation. The end result is we need to get back to work.”

    Why? Just why?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  62. Because he knows things, Dana.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  63. My god, how does he not know the reason why? I don’t think he’s listened to one word Dr. Fauci or any other expert has said. Not really. He’s heard them talk, but he hasn’t really *listened* and processed because in his delusions of grandeur, he really believes he knows best. They are superfluous.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  64. I don’t understand why anyone is bothering to listen to the President at this point at all. All he’s doing is causing trouble. The legislature is doing more, the state governors are doing more, the local governments are doing more, the Army corps of Engineers and the Army in general has apparently decided to quit waiting for orders from the president and has now decided to start ramping up their own responses and start helping the states out so even they are doing more. The President has failed in leadership in almost every way possible to fail in an emergency situation. The only way he hasn’t failed, being publicly visible, has ended up making things work because he can’t manage to be publicly visible in a truthful or productive way.

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. Look at you people. Just begging government to come take your freedom away. SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  66. I’m not begging government to take away my freedom, Gryph.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  67. @66 I’m pretty sure that the Army Corps of Engineers putting patient cubicles into the NYC convention center isn’t endangering my freedom, but YMMV.

    Nic (896fdf)

  68. …or the Oregon National Guard delivering needed medical supplies, cots, etc., or the Texas National Guard going door-to-door to see who may have come into contact with coronavirus patients, or any of the 2,050 Guardsmen who have been activated in 27 states.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  69. I’ve never defended Trump before in my life. I’m sure this will seem like an odd thing for me to say since Trump is probably utterly incapable of anything except rank politics, but *I* want to see people go back to work also. As soon as possible. And by any measure I can think of, the sooner, the better. All of these national guard units, all the Army Corps of Engineers busy work, it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that in the end it was all an unnecessary waste of taxpayer money.

    Don’t worry about it. You won’t have to moderate me. I won’t be back for a while.

    Gryph (08c844)

  70. Don’t worry about it. You won’t have to moderate me. I won’t be back for a while.

    To quote Mötley Crüe and the great Stitch Jones, Don’t go away mad, just go away.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  71. I’ve never defended Trump before in my life. I’m sure this will seem like an odd thing for me to say since Trump is probably utterly incapable of anything except rank politics, but *I* want to see people go back to work also. As soon as possible. And by any measure I can think of, the sooner, the better. All of these national guard units, all the Army Corps of Engineers busy work, it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that in the end it was all an unnecessary waste of taxpayer money.

    Don’t worry about it. You won’t have to moderate me. I won’t be back for a while.

    Gryph (08c844) — 3/26/2020 @ 10:11 pm

    Hey we all want America to go back to work. We all need that.

    I think that convention center is going to fill up with sick people. I think it’s going to be a horrible month of horrible footage none of us forget. I know this sounds like I’m just drooling for Trump to preside over a disaster and I am bitterly disappointed at how he’s handled things, but no, I would love it if this disaster went away, everyone who drank fish bowl cleaner lived to be 200 years old, and if that meant Trump was reelected that’s fine (Biden sucks anyway).

    Dustin (928d9a)

  72. @70 We would all like to see people being able to go back to work, but they can’t yet. Maybe you figure you can afford to operate on hope and wishful thinking, there aren’t that many people in South Dakota after all, so maybe the worst will pass you by, but that won’t work for the entire country.

    Nic (896fdf)

  73. I certainly wasn’t going to moderate you, Gryph, and I’m sure Patterico and JVW weren’t going to either. It’s ok to disagree. Even vigorously so. I wonder if age comes into how we all view this? You’re much younger than me, as I recall, so we have different vantage points and life experiences that inform our responses to what is going on. Anyway, please don’t feel like you have to go, only go if you want to take a break. You are welcome here.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  74. our president mr president trump is a miracle worker who will resurrect failmerica by laying on his genetically superior and totally normal sized hands

    Dave (1bb933)

  75. Don’t worry about it. You won’t have to moderate me. I won’t be back for a while.

    Ah, martyrdom! Dulces et decorum est pro patria ut interdictum.

    Why should you be moderated, Gryph?

    nk (1d9030)

  76. In the next two weeks, 30 million people are going to lose their jobs. The vast majority of them are not at particular risk for this virus — the largest cohort by far is retired and insulated to some degree from the chaos.

    When this happens, the guy who says “we need to get back to work” is going to be heard.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. …the largest *at-risk* cohort by far

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. “It’s a very bad situation. The end result is we need to get back to work.”

    Lead by example.

    Do away with “executive time,” switch off Fox & Friends, Morning Joe and whatever AM CNN is, put down the remote, stay off the TeeVee and Twitter, pick up your phone and get your azz working it tracking down masks, corralling ventilators for NYC, New Orleans, Detroit, LA and Chicago an order the militar set up MASH units in every Walmart parking lot west of East St. Louis.

    Then lunch: two Quarter Pounders with cheese, large fries and, large Diet Coke–ad another Quarter Pounder with Cheese for dessert.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. In the next two weeks, 30 million people are going to lose their jobs. The vast majority of them are not at particular risk for this virus — the largest cohort by far is retired and insulated to some degree from the chaos.

    When this happens, the guy who says “we need to get back to work” is going to be heard.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/26/2020 @ 10:36 pm

    I agree that the people upset that they can’t feed their family or their business is destroyed will be very justifiably unhappy.

    I disagree that the largest cohort at risk are old people. A lot of 40 year old athletes seem to be getting their asses kicked and are at severe risk of spreading this virus.

    New York City received more 911 calls today than they did on 9/11. The idea it’s just a bunch of old people affected … I think that’s misguided due to the sheer scale of the problem. All hospitals in America, all EMTs in America, being completely overwhelmed… that will affect everyone having a baby, everyone who experiences a crime, everybody for all kinds of reasons. Even if young folks don’t get sick (and a ton of them will) I think the economic catastrophe is going to be awful.

    I wonder if it would have been worse if we’d just let it happen. If we had millions of people get sick last week, a quarter million dying today, and hoped to recover in a couple weeks if things go away from there. It’s a fair question but it would have wrecked things pretty good either way.

    In my opinion, there’s no possible world where we start dealing with this virus in March (instead of January) and the economy isn’t wrecked. But we’re still choosing to wreck the economy to save some lives and that is really hard to accept in a society that embraces risk in all kinds of areas.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  80. Then lunch: two Quarter Pounders with cheese, large fries and, large Diet Coke–ad another Quarter Pounder with Cheese for dessert.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/26/2020 @ 10:42 pm

    I would pig out on this. I’ve been eating at home and it’s healthy and frankly I don’t like it anymore.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  81. Why should he be moderated, nk?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  82. because in his delusions of grandeur, he really believes he knows best.

    It’s obvious this is how he thinks (or “thinks”), because he’s told us many times that he knows more than anyone else about all manner of things. That’s his narcissistic pathology.

    What’s worse, in a way, is the fans who encourage his delusions — like Laura Ingraham, who said his “sharp instincts” enable him to see what’s missed by the intellectuals (i.e. people who actually know things and aren’t loons) — on a medical subject!

    At a lower level are the Trump faithful on Twitter who are certain that only Trump gives them the straight truth, and no one else is really trustworthy.

    Rarely does someone so grossly unworthy of trust and admiration get so much of it.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  83. Lets imagine that we hadn’t done anything, that we’d just kept living our lives, keeping the economy going, and millions of people started to die. People you know, people you don’t know. Funerals on the news every day, film of ERs overflowing, cots of people in every possible large building. There would be sick people on cots in my gym. Cots in airplane hangers on military bases. Sick people everywhere. How much would we be willing to pay to go back and do something to make it better?

    Nic (896fdf)

  84. That’s what I asked him, Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. I disagree that the largest cohort at risk are old people. A lot of 40 year old athletes seem to be getting their asses kicked and are at severe risk of spreading this virus.

    80% of dead are over 65. That is pretty obviously the largest cohort.

    Sure, we see the reports of younger people, but those are just the window-dressing. It’s a form of hostage-taking. The people who lose their jobs and see their dreams being destroyed are going to risk that chance. Scare tactics will stop working on them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. 80% of dead are over 65. That is pretty obviously the largest cohort.

    Only if you say death is the only risk. If spreading the virus is a risk, particularly to loved ones, then it’s just complicated. And even if the ‘largest’ group are the oldest, a lot of people will die who aren’t old. And a huge number of folks will manage to survive but get horribly sick (the number who die will depend on how overwhelmed we are at the time).

    My point is that it’s not like it’s just retired folks who will be devastated by this, nor is it just retired folks who benefit from the economic problems, and in fact if doing nothing led to enough of the workforce being knocked on their ass (and I think that was a real possibility) then the economic problems were inevitable.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  87. The people who lose their jobs and see their dreams being destroyed are going to risk that chance.

    I agree. They would have risked it. We see this at the grocery store, with medical professionals, etc. And yet most of these folks do support the lock down. We care about eachother.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  88. “Jim Acosta
    @Acosta
    ·
    Another example of Trump minimizing the Coronavirus: “I just spoke to two people who had it. They never went to a doctor.”
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    That’s straight from CDC recommendations for young or healthy people. You’re doing great Jim.”

    How did they know they had it if they never went to a doctor?

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  89. I wonder if it would have been worse if we’d just let it happen. If we had millions of people get sick last week, a quarter million dying today, and hoped to recover in a couple weeks if things go away from there. It’s a fair question but it would have wrecked things pretty good either way.

    I keep hearing this, but it makes no sense to me. You know what a world with fewer 80yos is called? 1970. But since they will not be going to work, they are no more exposed now than if everyone is working, so even that scare story is just a story. They can stay holed up — I’m 66 with asthma and I wasn’t going out much well before the State told me not to, and I’d be cautious even if they said it was “OK” now. If I can tough it out, so can you.

    The long and the short of it is that people can SEE PLAINLY what happens if the economy collapses — they have no hope of avoiding the chaos. EVERYONE is screwed. If they all go back to work, they have a really really good chance of not suffering harm. The fatality rate under 40 is about 80 times less than over 70. And they’ll take the chance that it isn’t them.

    Here’s the CDC cohort numbers as of 3/26:

    This first preliminary description of outcomes among patients with COVID-19 in the United States indicates that fatality was highest in persons aged ≥85, ranging from 10% to 27%, followed by 3% to 11% among persons aged 65–84 years, 1% to 3% among persons aged 55-64 years, less than 1% among persons aged 20–54 years, and no fatalities among persons aged ≤19 years.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

    That’s less than 1% chance of death (after contracting the virus) under 54 years of age. 1-3% 55-64. Factor that against decades of relative poverty for your family and your children’s family. It’s not even a hard decision.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. We care about each other.

    That’s not caring, that’s terminal co-dependence and guilting. You will note that it is the older people (who know what bad times are like) who are arguing for opening the workplaces back up. It’s the younger people who are so fearful of what might happen to the older people — who largely are not asking or needing said protection. When you get into your 60’s, you come to terms with your mortality in a way that 30yos never do.

    *I* am not ASKING for your pity.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. I don’t know why people can’t get it through their heads that their rosy assumptions about low fatality rates for the middle-aged depend on the availability of ICU beds and people to treat them.

    If tens of millions are sick at the same time, the hospitals are overflowing, and all the doctors and nurses are sick, or passed out from fatigue, it will be a national apocalypse of a completely different magnitude than any temporary economic dislocation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  92. The death rate, overall from this thing is more more than 1% OF THOSE THAT contract it. That means that somewhere between 100K and 200K will die. You can stretch it out, but you cannot measurably reduce the number of people who will contract it. The only really bad thing you can do is overwhelm the medical establishment, but give it another month or so, and this won’t be the issue (assuming that we as a nation can still do what we need to).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. *more NO more

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. I don’t know why people can’t get it through their heads that their rosy assumptions about low fatality rates for the middle-aged depend on the availability of ICU beds and people to treat them.

    How long do you think that will take? Clue: we are in a hurry because if the nation goes broke first it won’t effing matter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. By the way, how did China do it? I don’t think they had a secret stash of ventilators.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. “Temporary economic dislocation”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/it-was-worst-week-economy-decades-pain-is-just-beginning/

    The record 3.3 million jobless claims reported Thursday mark the beginning of an economic crisis facing American workers and businesses — a slump, experts say, that will only end when the coronavirus pandemic is contained.

    The economy has entered a deep recession that has echoes of the Great Depression in the way it has devastated so many businesses and consumers, triggering mass layoffs and threatening to set off a chain reaction of bankruptcies and financial losses for companies large and small.

    What sets this downturn apart is how rapidly the virus — and the economic pain — have spread. It remains a wide open question whether this will become a long-lasting slump or a short-lived flash recession.

    Economists say the jobless claims reported Thursday, which reflected workers seeking unemployment insurance last week, is the start of a massive spike in unemployment that could result in over 40 million Americans losing their jobs by mid-April.

    I got your temporary economic dislocation right here. At least for those workers who don’t have iron rice bowls government jobs.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. Kevin, I’m in the probably OK group. I’m not willing to put a gun to my mother’s head and play Russian Roulette in order to keep my job. I’m not trading my mom for money.

    Nic (896fdf)

  98. Like I said, I just agreed with my NGO board to furlough our entire staff starting April 1. More of that happening everywhere this weekend.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  99. Nic, the gun is at your children’s and your grandchildren’s heads. Mom will get by.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. One month ago today:

    But the fact is, other than yesterday — which was something pretty bad, with respect to the virus, and we’ll see what happens — I see the futures are up today, up fairly substantially. But that’s a very serious thing, but we think we’re in very good shape in the United States. We’ve essentially closed the border to areas where we had to close them. And we had very few. We took in 32 people over the last two days because they were sick and they’re Americans, and they’re great people. You know, what are you going to do? They’re in quarantine.

    But we had, essentially, 12 people. Many of them are getting better now. Soon, they’ll all be better, we hope. And we’re watching very carefully. So we’ve had a very, very good stretch of — let’s just say we’re fortunate so far. And we think it’s going to remain that way.

    China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control.

    So I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away. But we lost almost 1,000 points yesterday on the market, and that’s something. You know, things like that happen where — and you have it in your business all the time — it had nothing to do with you; it’s an outside source that nobody would have ever predicted. If you go back six months or three months ago, nobody would have ever predicted.

    But let’s see, I think it’s going to be under control. And I think I can speak for our country, for — our country is under control. But again, we do business with a lot of other countries. We take care — we work with other countries. We want other countries to be happy, healthy, and well. They’ve got to be happy, healthy, and well. It’s very simple.

    And so let’s see how it all works out, but I think it’s going to work out fine. I hope so. We’re working very hard. We’re spending a tremendous amount of money also on — we just asked for two and a half-billion dollars on getting everything ready just in case something should happen, and also helping other nations that really aren’t equipped to do it.

    Such keen insight! Such flawless instincts! We should definitely ignore the medical professionals and follow this guy’s lead going forward!

    Dave (1bb933)

  101. @100 How do you feel about Universal basic income? I’m betting you don’t support it and don’t believe that joblessness or poverty cause the literal death of children. No gun to their head. Going back to work tomorrow could cause the literal death of many of our parents. Gun to my mother’s head.

    Nic (896fdf)

  102. Frightening article on the death cult’s smear campaign against Dr. Fauci:

    As Trump signals readiness to break with experts, his online base assails Fauci

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. An update from a few hours ago:

    David Lat’s breathing capacity and oxygen levels have increased mildly, which are positive signs as he fights the novel coronavirus, but he remains in intensive care and on a ventilator. And his doctors still do not know whether he will pull through, said Lat’s husband late Thursday afternoon.

    Good thing he’s not at risk from the virus.

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. Dave’s link shows they are actually starting to claim Fauci developed the virus. Clever. He’s a smart doctor and has been in government… dumb people will believe that. wake up sheeple lol.

    of course Trump isn’t responsible for the umpteenth time someone has been smeared and harassed for trying to do a good job while Trump screws it up nearby.

    Imagine how bad this is going to get guys. Pray and hug your family.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  105. Unrelated thought: bats are dying a lot more lately and I wonder if it’s because we are using more powerful cell towers for broadband internet (the newer %g ones are approximately double the electrical power). I wonder if that happened in Wuhan, increasing the quantity of bats available for meat sales, and increasing the risk of the virus spreading. This is more pedestrian than the idea they got the virus from weapons espionage or development but it is interesting that this is a bat virus.

    I was googling this and see there’s an insane theory that 5G radio waves themselves caused the virus, where I learned that Wuhan got these towers around November 1, 2019. Obviously radio waves don’t cause viruses, but if they increased the bat meat numbers, they may have tilted the odds a bit. Bats are definitely affected by radio waves. We’ve known that bats avoid radar and other EM for a long time.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  106. Fauci developed the virus.

    Diabolical!

    Only President Trump can save us!

    Dave (1bb933)

  107. You have to hand it to show-runners; they’ve really turned the plot upside-down with this season’s surprise virus arc:

    Mexican Protesters Demand Border With US Be Closed

    Dave (1bb933)

  108. Criticize for lack of planning, now criticize for planning. Leftist are performing as predicted.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  109. If things do not get under control with the virus, this is what Red State America could be facing:

    https://www.ajc.com/news/state–regional/city-under-seige-coronavirus-exacts-heavy-toll-albany/xC9NO677gfDQSaGEQDXSAN/

    Yes, this is long, but Albany GA is serving as the canary in the coal mine.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  110. Trump is absolutely correct – there is no “one size fits all” for 330 million million people spread out 3,000 miles coast to coast. further, many of the lockdowns have been draconian and probably unnecessary. Do we really need small bars and restaurants shut down? Or small businesses? It would seem that shutting down the obvious things like large sit-down restaurants, schools, Bars, Theaters, sporting events, and international travel and immigration would do the trick.

    People forget that what is being done is unprecedented. We’ve never shut-down the country because of a disease with less than 5,000 deaths. We stayed open and fought WW 1 during the spanish flu, and Obama did almost nothing during the 2009 ebola outbreak.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  111. From the way people talk, you’d think no one ever died from the flu. We lose 40,000 people a year. Mostly the same groups that are at high risk for the Chinese Virus. Elderly and those with Asthma and other lung problems.

    The death rate from the Virus seems to be about 1%. If 35% of the USA gets it, that’s 100,000 deaths spread out over a couple years. Not that serious in a Country where 3 Million die every year.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  112. Trump has over 60% approval for his handling of the crisis. He’s been a workhorse, and been out every day answering questions, going to meeting, talking to other leaders. He’s been fantastic. R’s approve 95%, Independents 60%, Dems 25%. If we had a half-way objective news media, instead of DNC-media, his approval would be much higher.

    And speaking of keeping their damn trap shut. Maybe Hillary should put down the wine glass and stop tweeting. What a classless, bitter, harpy. Instead of trying to rally around the President, she’s insulting him – in a childish way. But then maybe she, and Schumer are Chinese assets.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  113. “hostage-taking”

    and

    “That’s not caring, that’s terminal co-dependence and guilting.”

    Terminal…!!!

    Nope. That guy isn’t running around waving his arms with his hair on fire.

    Of course, he’s the only person I’ve heard suggest that this whole evolution will…or even could…take 18 months.

    BTW, ASIDE from mortality, how many of us would be made sick or debilitated for life, including children, if we let this thing run out of control? How many kids effectively orphaned?

    As usual in life, there’s a middle way.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  114. @113 I’ve run these numbers before in other threads. Why do you think this would be spread out over a couple of years?

    frosty (f27e97)

  115. rcocean (1a839e) — 3/27/2020 @ 5:58 am

    But then maybe she, and Schumer are Chinese assets.

    Maybe?

    frosty (f27e97)

  116. Just finished a very good conversation with President Xi of China. Discussed in great detail the CoronaVirus that is ravaging large parts of our Planet. China has been through much & has developed a strong understanding of the Virus. We are working closely together. Much respect!–DJ T-rump

    Welp, he’s amazing. Not is a good way, but amazing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  117. Atomic Heat BBQ Bat Wings! Get ‘em while you can!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. “I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You know, you go to major hospitals, sometimes they have 2 ventilators.” — Trump suggests Cuomo is exaggerating about the medical gear he needs to keep people alive.

    And that’s from Fox… Compare and contrast his tongue-bath for Xi and his cray-cray for Cuuuumo.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  119. you cannot really blame mr. president trump, who has not received a beautiful letter from kim jong un in months if not years

    once the democrats stymied him and his family from skimming the stimulus money, he lost all interest in his coronavirus

    now he just wants to put it aside and move on

    and maybe file bankruptcy

    really, what else could you expect him to do?

    nk (1d9030)

  120. The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off.

    The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car parts plant in Kokomo, Ind., where the ventilators would be made with Ventec’s technology…

    Two officials said the suggestion to wait on the General Motors offer came from Col. Patrick Work, who is working at FEMA. Some government officials expressed concern about the possibility of ordering too many ventilators, leaving them with an expensive surplus.

    As much as it pains me to say this, a billion dollars is a rounding error today. I damn sure hope that some bureaucrat doesn’t decide test kits are too expensive.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  121. I wonder what bat tastes like. It’s well known that coronavirus doesn’t live if food is cooked, so I did someone eat a raw one? Or maybe their Yoplait was sitting too close to the Instant Pot bat splatter?

    Dustin (928d9a)

  122. As much as it pains me to say this, a billion dollars is a rounding error today. I damn sure hope that some bureaucrat doesn’t decide test kits are too expensive.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/27/2020 @ 6:27 am

    Nah, this isn’t about the money. You are right that we’re way past that.

    This is about all those times Trump insists someone ask him ‘nicely’. It’s why it’s pretty pernicious for democrats to hope Cuomo gets nominated to oppose Trump. As soon as petty bitch Trump realizes Cuomo looks good, he stops sharing ventilators. And GM… why maybe we have “too many ventilators.” It’s why Fauci has to kiss ass to keep making a difference. The Trump administration culture is strictly yes men. Bad calls can’t be fixed. Improvements are very hard to complete.

    Just textbook weak leadership.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  123. Dustin (928d9a) — 3/27/2020 @ 6:32 am

    I wonder what bat tastes like.

    You wouldn’t get it from eating bats raw or cooked. It transmits between bats and humans the same way it transmits between bats and between humans. These wet markets have live bats and humans in close proximity.

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. Nobody ate a bat. They butchered pigs that the bats had pooped on. Then they handled the cooked pig and other foods, dishes, utensils, etc. Cross-contamination.

    nk (1d9030)

  125. After lunch, they went back to work making, packing and shipping Ivanka’s line of Chinese schlock.

    nk (1d9030)

  126. Funny, nk!

    But I’ve read that the wet markets have become a status symbol for the upper-income folks. Dunno if that’s true, and I know nothing about wet markets for a fact.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  127. Just textbook weak leadership.

    One could say criminally weak leadership. But there isn’t a statute. Hmmm…

    I heard about this thingy called impeachment… Naw.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  128. In the movie “Contagion”, it was bats on the rafters of the pig sty pooping on the pigs below.

    nk (1d9030)

  129. Bats have pooped on pigs for centuries. They’re known for it…

    (There’s a Mel Brooks scene in there somewhere.)

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  130. Forget Cuomo rumors, if the press had the sense God gave a gold fish they’d start a rumor about the D’s putting COVID19 at the top of the ticket. NeverTrump would play along explaining how day to day operations could be handled by the chief of staff to be named later. R’s pointing out that COVID19 doesn’t meet the age requirements would be dismissed as birthers, or maybe agers.

    That would certainly focus Trump like a laser.

    frosty (c76ab8)

  131. I also suspect that “wet markets” are media wordsmithing cutesyness, and that we call them “farmers markets” or “fresh markets” over here.

    nk (1d9030)

  132. You’ll dismay a bunch of yuppies and granola heads and unfairly impugn a lot of Sub-F500 grocers, nk. Wet markets of the Chinese kind should be called filthy exotic abattoirs which catches them up and surpasses the I’ll repute of halal killing.

    urbanleftbehind (c8591c)

  133. What I read is that Chinese consumers distrust packaged foods, urbanleftbehind, and they shop at the butcher’s, the baker’s, the grocer’s and the greengrocer’s, like our grandparents did.

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Well, well.

    Cuomo Questions Quarantine: Probably Not The Best Public Health Strategy

    “We closed everything down. That was our public health strategy,” Cuomo said, as reported by the New York Post. “If you re-thought that or had time to analyze that public health strategy, I don’t know that you would say ‘Quarantine everyone.’”

    “I don’t even know that that was the best public health policy,” the governor admitted. “Young people then quarantined with older people, [it] was probably not the best public health strategy. The younger people could have been exposing the older people to an infection.”

    . . .

    “There’s a theory of risk stratification that Dr. Katz who’s at Yale University is working on, which is actually very interesting to me,” the governor said Monday. “Isolate people but really isolate the vulnerable people. Don’t isolate everyone because some people, most people, are not vulnerable to it.”

    “And if you isolate all people, you may be actually exposing the more vulnerable people by bringing in a person who is healthier and stronger and who may have been exposed to the virus, right,” Cuomo added.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/cuomo-questions-quarantine-probably-not-the-best-public-health-strategy

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  135. President Trump is doing a great job in the last 24 hours, allowing compounding pharmacies to manufacture hydroxychloroquine and questioning the need to prioritize mass producing ventilators.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  136. I also suspect that “wet markets” are media wordsmithing cutesyness, and that we call them “farmers markets” or “fresh markets” over here.

    Not exactly.

    Starting at around two minutes……..

    https://youtu.be/TPpoJGYlW54
    __

    harkin (b64479)

  137. That’s because it’s not a quarantine, Signore Governatore. It’s a round the clock curfew.

    nk (1d9030)

  138. I also suspect that “wet markets” are media wordsmithing cutesyness, and that we call them “farmers markets” or “fresh markets” over here

    Farmer’s market to me means farmers sell produce, and maybe some home-canned goods or apple cider. Not an open air meat market, including various exotic animals.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  139. President Trump is doing a great job in the last 24 hours, allowing compounding pharmacies to manufacture hydroxychloroquine and questioning the need to prioritize mass producing ventilators.

    Ah, the senseless babble of a conspiracy fantasist.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  140. Not an open air meat market, including various exotic animals.

    Packed one species on top of another in cages.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  141. You’re not a great thinker, Colonel Klink.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  142. You’re not a great thinker, Colonel Klink.

    Thanks, my brain operates 180 degrees from you, I’ll take it. Plus, I’m not a terrible human man.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  143. We have mom-and-pop slaughterhouses here too, harkin. Iowa and Wisconsin, anyway. Some right on the farm. Greeks buy their Easter lambs there, for example. Goats too, that I can attest to. They’re USDA inspected and everything.

    nk (1d9030)

  144. my brain operates 180 degrees from you

    My thoughts exactly about you! This is a great comfort to me.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  145. My thoughts exactly about you! This is a great comfort to me.

    Me too, we are in total agreement.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  146. God be praised!

    With that, my work here is done.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  147. “ We have mom-and-pop slaughterhouses here too, harkin. Iowa and Wisconsin, anyway. Some right on the farm. Greeks buy their Easter lambs there, for example. Goats too, that I can attest to. They’re USDA inspected and everything.”

    Did you even watch the video and if so are you seriously saying the Wuhan Wet Market would pass USDA inspection?

    When my local Farmers Market starts slaughtering squirrels on the parking lot surface, offers bats-on-a-stick or sells endangered species livers and powdered rhino horn to sharpen my pencil, I’ll call it quits.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  148. And more food for thought:

    The coronavirus test that wasn’t: How federal health officials misled state scientists and derailed the best chance at containment

    Scientists around the country found themselves shackled as the disease spread.

    “We were watching a tsunami and standing there frozen,” said Dr. Debra Wadford, director of the public viral disease laboratory in California, where some of the country’s earliest patients were identified.

    The nation’s public health pillars — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration — shirked their responsibility to protect Americans in an emergency like this new coronavirus, USA TODAY found in interviews with dozens of scientists, public health experts and community leaders, as well as email communications between laboratories and hospitals across the country.

    The result was a cascading series of failures now costing lives.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/03/27/coronavirus-test-officials-botched-rollout-derailed-containment/5080781002/

    I am reminded of this line:

    “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.” – Ronald Reagan

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  149. I went to around 2:00 et seq like you said and got the idea. And no, those places would not pass USDA inspection.

    nk (1d9030)

  150. Interesting little vignette…

    In much of the world, you buy your meat from a “fresh” butcher out on the street. Refrigeration is still something of a rarity. A beef cut will often be the most tender you’ll enjoy. Why? Because it has not gone through rigor.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  151. I went to around 2:00 et seq like you said and got the idea. And no, those places would not pass USDA inspection.

    I was in Taipei in the early aughts, and my hosts dragged me to Snake Alley, or Tourist Trap Alley, and I really couldn’t complain about the cleanliness, but I was still not drinking shots of snake blood and vodka, or deer p3nis wine. Other cultures and all that.

    I’ve generally been OK in street food markets in lots of 2nd world countries, but in the deepest of the 3rd world, I steer well clear from just the reasons why a species jump occurs. I’me sure I’ve eaten cooked gross thing, but at least it’s burnt beyond all recognition, I don’t need Simian sweet bread tartare, thank you very much.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  152. In much of the world, you buy your meat from a “fresh” butcher out on the street. Refrigeration is still something of a rarity. A beef cut will often be the most tender you’ll enjoy. Why? Because it has not gone through rigor.

    Yet for some reason, China seems to be the source of many of these diseases. Maybe it is the high population density and world travel to and from there, I don’t know.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  153. Or monkey brains on the half-skull, a la Indiana Jones.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  154. What I hear Cuomo and others saying — and I may be wrong so please correct me, because I am not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth — is that we could have let the people not at risk go about their lives and shelter the vulnerable. That would enable most people to continue to make a living so it would help the economy, while also protecting those most at risk. Only the vulnerable would be inconvenienced, not unlike the way we have locked down nursing homes.

    That is an appealing argument but is this 20/20 hindsight? I think this only works if we assume there is widespread testing so we know who has the virus and that the healthcare system will not be overwhelmed with low-risk people who get sick. We still don’t have a lot of testing, nor do we have data about who is needing hospitalization. (FWIW in my area, the numbers yesterday were 50-50 between young and old. Most of the people being diagnosed are only getting tested because they needed hospitalization. Today, more young people were diagnosed. I am sure this is an anomaly but these were not the people the data said should be isolated.)

    It might still be a good theory to try for economic reasons, but I don’t agree it was a mistake to try social distancing because this virus is not acting the same in every community. I think it is an argument that each State should manage its own affairs, and I give Trump credit for letting that happen.

    DRJ (15874d)

  155. Yet for some reason, China seems to be the source of many of these diseases.

    While a lot of places would seem to delicate Americans rather unhygienic, they still are clean. Blood sausage and soups are considered haute cuisine in very Western nations.

    But the wet markets of China are a whole ‘nuther level of pathological roulette.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  156. “ And no, those places would not pass USDA inspection”
    _

    I really feel we’ve made progress here.

    harkin (b64479)

  157. Bored Lawyer @154

    Joe Rogan does pretty good interviews. He recently interviewed Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

    One of the things they talked about what how the wet markets in China facilitate disease mutation across species. It’s not just a china thing. But China is set up to have more if it. For instance weasels (might have been mink) have some similarities to humans as far as infectious disease goes. Keeping live chicken next to weasels (might have been mink) that are intended for human consumption increases the risk. It’s something that can happen anywhere, in the US they’re expected that chronic wasting disease will make the jump from white tailed dear to Humans at some point. But china is set up to exacerbate the problem

    Anyway it’s a decent and entertaining interview with someone knowledgeable about infectious disease.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  158. In China, Beijing and other places are still on lockdown and have been for weeks. People can get out but public businesses are still closed. This isn’t an easy fix.

    DRJ (15874d)

  159. From my link:

    Sebastien also reveals how Chinese authorities are tracking people’s whereabouts – there are now apps that allow residents to geolocate people who have been diagnosed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  160. “ Maybe it is the high population density and world travel to and from there, I don’t know.”

    I read a story about the 1918 pandemic years ago. IIRC the main reason they said most flus came from Asia/China was the fact that so many people lived in such close proximity to the animals they raised for food, especially chicken, ducks and other fowl. I don’t even remember them mentioning bats.
    __

    About twenty years ago I took my boss to a Thai restaurant. I had enjoyed thai cooking since the mid-70s in LA and was always telling him how good the food was and he finally agreed to go.

    After we had ordered, we were sitting drinking Singh-ha and he got up to use the facilities. After a minute he walked out, said “let’s go” and we left a few bucks and walked out.

    When we got in the truck he said : “there’s a chicken thawing in the bathroom”

    I still eat Thai food regularly, just not at that place.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  161. That is an appealing argument but is this 20/20 hindsight? I think this only works if we assume there is widespread testing so we know who has the virus and that the healthcare system will not be overwhelmed with low-risk people who get sick.

    This is true. If we were testing somewhere in the 10-25% range where we would have good surveillance and contact tracking, more options are on the table, 50%-75% percent with active quarantine for the infected, we’d be golden.

    Unfortunately, we’re not at 1%, as of yesterday we were only approaching .1%. We went from zero to 1k in a loonnngggg time, but we were only at ~250k yesterday.

    So saying we’re going to ease geo X, without testing geo X to a high degree of certainty, and isolating it from sickies going there from population centers, is just silly. Without extensive testing, you have to err on the side of caution.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  162. “ Keeping live chicken next to weasels (might have been mink) that are intended for human consumption increases the risk. It’s something that can happen anywhere”

    That’s a good point and makes that menu shown on that video I linked even more problematic.

    Species from all over the world in one place. Many still alive in stacked cages defecating and urinating on the ones below and all waiting to be dinner.

    It’s like actively encouraging virus mutation across species.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  163. A long time ago, before there was internet and we were still afraid of a new Ice Age, that long, I read an interview of a USDA inspector whose circuit was those small-scale slaughterhouses. He had his own set of knives to make sample cuts of the same kind as the butchers were going to make to see what the meat looked like on the inside and then grade the carcass.

    nk (1d9030)

  164. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 3/27/2020 @ 8:04 am
    What makes the wet markets “wet” is all the blood from the animals.

    felipe (023cc9)

  165. @166

    Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 3/27/2020 @ 8:04 am
    What makes the wet markets “wet” is all the blood from the animals.

    felipe (023cc9) — 3/27/2020 @ 8:58 am

    This.

    Also, thread request: We’re a diverse group of posters here and it’s helpful if someone could elaborate some of these terminologies. I only just recently understood that term (misunderstood it as another open aired farmer’s market).

    whembly (51f28e)

  166. “In MY day, you could eat a raw bat and the world wouldn’t end”

    — – Ozzy Osbourne

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  167. Nothing like fresh imp on a stick…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  168. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/27/2020 @ 9:05 am

    I believe Ozzy’s version of this event. Ozzy has spoken, so shall it be recorded as the true version.

    frosty (f27e97)

  169. I also suspect that “wet markets” are media wordsmithing cutesyness, and that we call them “farmers markets” or “fresh markets” over here.

    So true, I always shop at America’s farmers markets for the choicest monkey, pangolin and labradoodle meats.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  170. and I give Trump credit for letting that happen.

    Quick, get me my coat. Hell has just frozen over! 😉

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  171. ProPublica:

    A nationwide shortage of two drugs touted as possible treatments for the coronavirus is being driven in part by doctors inappropriately prescribing the medicines for family, friends and themselves, according to pharmacists and state regulators.

    “It’s disgraceful, is what it is,” said Garth Reynolds, executive director of the Illinois Pharmacists Association, which started getting calls and emails Saturday from members saying they were receiving questionable prescriptions. “And completely selfish.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  172. “pangolin”

    I did not even know what that is and had to look it up.

    Found this:

    Coronaviruses Similar to The COVID-19 One Have Just Been Found in Pangolins

    A search for the ‘missing link’ in the chain of the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 has uncovered two close cousins of the new coronavirus in shipments of pangolins being smuggled into China.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  173. @173 Licensed providers can by sanctioned by their state’s Board of Medicine.

    But, it’s really, REALLY hard to do this in many states. (ie, over prescribing narcotics get you in trouble with the law first, before any sanctions from the Board).

    whembly (51f28e)

  174. Somebody must have told Rep. Haley Stevens of Michigan that the virus is affiliated with the NRA.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  175. General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!!

    This is the plant that Trump forced GM to sell to the EV startup from Cincinnati. GM doesn’t own it, specifically due to Trump’s interference. Yet, yet, yet…

    As usual with “this” General Motors, things just never seem to work out. They said they were going to give us 40,000 much needed Ventilators, “very quickly”. Now they are saying it will only be 6000, in late April, and they want top dollar. Always a mess with Mary B. Invoke “P”.

    Like so many Trumpster’s, he believes in magic. Manufacturing can instantly switch from cars to ventilators, sure. Also, what’s the “P”?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  176. Like so many Trumpster’s, he believes in magic. Manufacturing can instantly switch from cars to ventilators, sure.”
    _

    Just last week GM believed in magic too:

    “We are working closely with Ventec to rapidly scale up production of their critically important respiratory products to support our country’s fight against the COVID-19 pandemic,” GM CEO Mary Barra said in a statement. “We will continue to explore ways to help in this time of crisis.”

    The Ventec-GM partnership is in cooperation with StopTheSpread.org, the nation’s coordinated private sector response to the virus.”

    https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-partners-medical-device-maker-boost-ventilator-supplies
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  177. I agree, but I also think Trump really believes in bullying. Price, production, whatever it is — Trump can turn it into a personal, political victory by bullying people and thus making it appear he was the reason things happened. It is not only cruel to do this during a crisis, it negates the good will that comes from people pulling together to overcome hardship.

    DRJ (15874d)

  178. GM was helping Ventec with logistics. It was still Ventec’s production line. We read that last week.

    DRJ (15874d)

  179. From your own link, harkin:

    Ventec, based in Seattle, will rely on GM’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build ventilators.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. Trump can turn it into a personal, political victory by bullying people and thus making it appear he was the reason things happened.“

    As many failings as he has, this is the one that exasperates me most.

    Someone is either ‘wonderful’ or ‘terrible’ based on their latest interaction.

    But I truly don’t think it’s political, I still feel that Trump approaches the presidency not as a politician, but as a used-car salesman. He certainly fits the description much more than Nixon.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  181. “We are working closely with Ventec to rapidly scale up production of their critically important respiratory products…

    The operative word is “rapidly”. Not “instantly”. Or “magically”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  182. Good point, harkin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  183. DRJ 182 – appreciate correction.
    __

    Unrelated:

    NYTimes – The Road to Coronavirus Hell Was Paved by Evangelicals

    __ _

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    ·
    Yes, New York City, the epicenter of this outbreak, is loaded with Evangelicals. So is China.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  184. 152.In much of the world, you buy your meat from a “fresh” butcher out on the street. Refrigeration is still something of a rarity. A beef cut will often be the most tender you’ll enjoy. Why? Because it has not gone through rigor.

    The best beef is aged. As time passes the price goes up(like whiskey). Aging, is leaving the meat on the carcus, in halves or quarters, 34 to 36 degreesF 80+%humidity with constant airflow. The breakdown of muscle connective tissue occurs overtime. Aging is a polite way to say rotting. The degradation of tissue overtime. Those aged halves will have a noticeable skin of mold covering it.

    Cooking is another way of breaking down the connective tissue. Think beef brisket. Low heat for a long time. Or Corned Beef. Brisket that is pickled, the pickling breaking down that tissue. Ribs and brisket on the smoker? Low and slow.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  185. 183. But I truly don’t think it’s political, I still feel that Trump approaches the presidency not as a politician, but as a used-car salesman. He certainly fits the description much more than Nixon

    President Trump is always selling.
    You attempt to make that a pejorative, but its not. It is all about communication, setting expectations, and exceeding those expectations. There is not a single segment of life that is not improved by great sales skills.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  186. A bunch of lawyers would think that’s a pejorative.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  187. Of course, harkin, but it wasn’t a correction as much as an addition. There is so much happening and it is complex. It helps if we can tackle this together.

    DRJ (15874d)

  188. President Trump is always selling.
    You attempt to make that a pejorative, but its not. It is all about communication, setting expectations, and exceeding those expectations. There is not a single segment of life that is not improved by great sales skills.

    Like there are 15 cases, soon to be zero, well, he exceeded that by 80k so far.

    Plus, it depends on what you’re selling. He’s selling magic thinking, stupidity, lies, and a bit of death, in exchange for making him feel personally powerful, and making you think stupid is a virtue.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  189. As many failings as he has, this is the one that exasperates me most.

    Someone is either ‘wonderful’ or ‘terrible’ based on their latest interaction.

    But I truly don’t think it’s political, I still feel that Trump approaches the presidency not as a politician, but as a used-car salesman. He certainly fits the description much more than Nixon.
    _

    harkin (b64479) — 3/27/2020 @ 10:04 am

    Well said. He doesn’t need to put himself at the middle of this. To an extent it is inevitable, just as nuts blamed Bush for 9/11, but largely he just didn’t need to make this about himself. All he needs to say is “this is terrible, what can I do” and make a show of how he’s doing all he can for blue states and red, critics and fans, and he will be loved anyway. At the least, if he can’t say that, he shouldn’t say anything at all.

    You attempt to make that a pejorative, but its not. It is all about communication, setting expectations, and exceeding those expectations.

    Boy that sounds good. Is that how Trump university and all those contracts he kept filing bankruptcy to dodge worked?

    A shameless con man’s sales strategy is to egregiously lie and then avoid taking responsibility when it’s time.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  190. 191. Selling is communicating. That you cant figure out who is the target, is your problem

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  191. Like there are 15 cases, soon to be zero, well, he exceeded that by 80k so far.

    Oops

    Dustin (928d9a)

  192. Selling is communicating. That you cant figure out who is the target, is your problem

    Please, tell us what he’s selling, and who he’s targeting. You think you know, use your words.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  193. Please, tell us what he’s selling, and who he’s targeting. You think you know, use your words.

    Trump now has the highest RCP aggregate approval rating he’s ever had.

    So, the American people.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  194. So Trump is obviously on his way to re-election against the clearly senile, stumbling over his words (and probably sex-abusing), Biden, and you have commenters here calling for the President to be infected with coronavirus and the person who infects him being awarded the Medal of Freedom—without sanction.

    Yeah. This is definitely an uninfluential backwater of alleged conservatism, an extreme and irrelevant minority. And you know it, too.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  195. So Trump is obviously on his way to re-election against the clearly senile, stumbling over his words (and probably sex-abusing), Biden, and you have commenters here calling for the President to be infected with coronavirus and the person who infects him being awarded the Medal of Freedom—without sanction.

    Exactly, he’s going to lose to Biden, or whomever. And if he isn’t infected yet, it’s because the deal with the devil he made includes virus’s, since he’s been exposed multiple times.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  196. Trump now has the highest RCP aggregate approval rating he’s ever had

    So you’re saying it’s a good approval rating? He’s still 2 points underwater, so more people think he’s doing a bad job than good job.

    Poll Date Approve Disapprove Spread
    Average 3/13-25 47.3 49.3 -2.0

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  197. 180. I agree, but I also think Trump really believes in bullying. Price, production, whatever it is — Trump can turn it into a personal, political victory by bullying people and thus making it appear he was the reason things happened. It is not only cruel to do this during a crisis, it negates the good will that comes from people pulling together to overcome hardship.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/27/2020 @ 10:00 am
    b
    The Defense Production Act is by definition bullying. President Trump signed the act into active status, then asked for help. Manufacturing companies stepped up. Created partnerships to manufacture. All was going great. Then they tried to gouge the govt. President Trump didn’t blink and applied the law and <bullied

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  198. Trump should, if anything, use the Defense Production Act more and harder (especially to compel production of drugs). However, he appears to have done a great job on ventilators and also the federal government has authorized compounding pharmacies to produce hydroxychloroquine. That is excellent.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  199. Well, maybe it’s not bumbling, but “strategy

    urbanleftbehind (aed111)

  200. The Defense Production Act is by definition bullying. President Trump signed the act into active status, then asked for help. Manufacturing companies stepped up. Created partnerships to manufacture. All was going great. Then they tried to gouge the govt. President Trump didn’t blink and applied the law and <bullied

    So he’s bullied them into doing the thing they were already doing, and the Federal government will be paying the amount they were going to be paying. So Trump did what exactly with GM. Did he magically create a supply chain, did he magically create an assembly line, are they going to magically deliver 1 more device 1 day earlier?

    If he’d have done that 3 weeks ago, or 6 weeks ago, that would have been nice, but ordering people to do the thing they’re already doing, after they already volunteered to do it, isn’t what you think it is.

    Now, if the Defense Logistics Agency would start coordinating supplies nationally, that would be a tremendous help. Unfortunately, that is not what Trump ordered.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  201. Published early
    bullied the manufacturers to produce.
    The smearing from the left was accusing the President of not forcing companies to do what they were volunteering to do. When the companies wavered, the President acted. Now he is a bully.

    This is a replay of the Testing snafu. CDC promised they could deliver, shutting down private sector involvement. President Trump went along with that until the first deadline expired with no tests, the President went the private sector and then had to spend days hacking away at needless regulations to finally getting the govt out of the way to allow producers to produce.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  202. The smearing from the left [this blog]

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  203. This is the blog where commenters can, with impunity, wish for the Republican President to be wounded (with coronavirus infection), and for the person who causes the President’s wounding to be rewarded, after all.

    Yeah, it’s left wing. And it’s unhinged.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  204. Trump should, if anything, use the Defense Production Act more and harder (especially to compel production of drugs). However, he appears to have done a great job on ventilators and also the federal government has authorized compounding pharmacies to produce hydroxychloroquine. That is excellent.

    What drugs, from whom, why? The dangerous one you keep talking about is not only useless to treat CV-19, it’s actually harmful, specifically because there are people who actually need it for it’s real use, and it has side effects. AND IT’S USELESS FOR CV-19. There is only evidence it doesn’t work.

    He’s doing a great job on ventilators. The manufacturers of ventilators are now making exactly the same number as they were going to yesterday, and last week. All, they’re making all the ventilators they can. Trump’s temper tantrum today will not accelerate that by a single unit. Manufacturing is magic.

    As has been pointed out many, many times. I know, facts are your enemy, but the joint ventures vent pricing was half the normal price. You know what invoking the “P” does in regards to govt pricing? You may want to look it up. How does it fix the supply chain problem. You keep promoting things that just aren’t reality based.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  205. “This is the blog where commenters can, with impunity, wish for the Republican President to be wounded (with coronavirus infection), and for the person who causes the President’s wounding to be rewarded, after all.

    Yeah, it’s left wing. And it’s unhinged.”

    I’m sorry your feelings were hurt.

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  206. I’m sorry your feelings were hurt.

    I’ll be made whole again on Presidential election night, just like I was last time.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  207. Nuts call this Trump’s Virus just as nuts blamed Bush for 9/11

    FIFYTML

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  208. This is just remarkable, from Justin Amash:

    Congress and President Trump put taxpayers on the hook for billions of dollars to United Airlines in exchange for keeping their work force intact at least through September 30.

    Immediately after the bill was signed, United announced upcoming layoffs—to begin after September 30.

    Report here.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  209. There is so much happening and it is complex. It helps if we can tackle this together and allow our better nature not to attack and vilify the POTUS, or his supporters, every minute of every waking hour.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  210. Fixed that one too.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  211. Charging half price is not price gouging, iowan2.

    DRJ (15874d)

  212. Trump is conditioning assistance to blue states based on whether the Governors talk nice about him. I will never support that and I can’t understand why you would.

    DRJ (15874d)

  213. Remember when President Nixon held a presser and told NASA brass Kraft, Lunney and Kraft that they were over estimating the problems and needs aboard Apollo 13 and Lovell, Haise and Swigert didn’t need to conserve electricity, create CO2 filters and to just hold their breaths?

    President Trump is in charge- he knows what is best and knows what he’s doing! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  214. ^Kranz

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  215. Gm was providing the ventilators at cost.

    Let me say that again: GM WAS NOT MAKING A PROFIT ON THIS.

    Gm asked the government how many they planned to order so they would know how much tooling was needed.
    The Trump White House, being terrible at leadership could t answer that simple question.
    Probably because doing so would lock them in to a decision to which they would be accountable.
    Trump is frightened of decisions because it impedes his ability to lie later about what he thought and did.
    So he issued a statement that he was compelling GM instead.

    And Trump started another tribal conflict for a major US company that’s in a tough position right now and trying to do the right thing and help make ventilators. He’s the worst leader I’ve ever seen at this level. He’s just god awefull.

    Time123 (d54166)

  216. Forgot the part where GM asked the government to pay for the tooling costs directly. Which makes sense when you’re doing something at cost and your customer won’t tell you what capacity is needed.

    Time123 (d54166)

  217. Ditto, Ditto, Ditto. I have known good and bad CEOs in my career, including some that did amazingly stupid things, but I have never seen anyone as terrible as Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  218. GM may be better off (and may even get more money) under he Defense Production Act because there is a specific process, instead of letting Trump’s arbitrary bargaining be the process.

    DRJ (15874d)

  219. I’ll be made whole again on Presidential election night, just like I was last time.

    Like I’ve observed starting in 2015; We’ve twice in a row elected a lying, narcissistic, Collectivist as$hole. Maybe its a trend.

    Oh, and tell us the one again about how you are NOT a cultist. ‘Cuz that one just NEVER gets old!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  220. 215. Half price of what? The price per machine would involve the level of sophisticated for the machine . But according to the NYT, negotiations were not advancing and FEMA had questions about the gross amount.

    Then Thursday night, The New York Times broke a story that President Trump had been set to make an announcement about the joint venture Wednesday — when the event was abruptly scrapped. The reason? The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) decided it needed more time to weigh the reported $1.5 billion price tag, including paying GM several hundred million dollars up front to retool the Kokomo plant for the task.

    So you have information contradicting this, or are just trolling for the dissension? Fight for the sake of fight.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  221. DRJ isn’t trolling Iowa. Give me a break. Trump needs to work with someone smoothly, making a decision he can take responsibility for, and without making himself the center of the issue. This is not a TV Show and ratings do not matter.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  222. 225. Everything is your business isn’t it?

    Bitch because President Trump refused to use the Defense Production Act, then bitch when he does. TDS has froze all the leftists brains.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  223. The real reason is that the Trump-Kushner Criminal Organization was not going to get a kickback from GM, I think.

    nk (1d9030)

  224. Bitch because President Trump refused to use the Defense Production Act, then bitch when he does. TDS has froze all the leftists brains.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/27/2020 @ 4:30 pm

    Ooooh he called me a leftist. That’s like calling DRJ a troll.

    If these are the arguments needed to prove to us how awesome and amazing Trump is doing as the pop-up morgues fill, you do you brother! Haiku will be along to tell you how you’re really truly right. I know how critical it is that you guys support eachother.

    The real reason is that the Trump-Kushner Criminal Organization was not going to get a kickback from GM, I think.

    nk (1d9030) — 3/27/2020 @ 4:35 pm

    That would be consistent. What’s in it for the president who needs his name glued on the wall in big gold letters.

    Thought experiment: Obama glues his name on the wall in 25 foot tall letters all over the place. Says if he could, he’d date Malia. Is that, alone, enough for Trump fans to say he’s mentally ill? Cause Trump is clearly mentally ill. He’s too nuts to see his decisions, a bare wall, his daughter’s sexuality for what they are and not about himself. He just can’t handle a crisis. He’s like a paramedic pausing CPR to take a selfie.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  225. Red flag…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  226. 228. a long list of words that are meaningless. Do have something on topic? No?

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  227. Listen to the experts!

    Except when the experts question the gross price of the contract. Then its Orange Man Bad. A default position that doesn’t get muddied up with pesky facts.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  228. Again, how is Trump now fixing the reality of manufacturing supply chains? How is GM going to make one more vent? Please, educate us with your vast knowledge.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (305827)

  229. @227. Injecting Federal juice into Mikey’s Kokomo is kickback enuf.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. “Listen to the experts!”

    Here’s Expert #1:

    General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!! @GeneralMotors
    @Ford
    8:23 AM · Mar 27, 2020

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1243559373395410957

    GREAT NEWS FOR OHIO! Just spoke to Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors, who informed me that, subject to a UAW agreement etc., GM will be selling their beautiful Lordstown Plant to Workhorse, where they plan to build Electric Trucks. GM will also be spending $700,000,000 in Ohio…
    8:18 AM · May 8, 2019

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1126144398180388864

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  231. Danville IL and it’s old Tilton GM plant has a shot, but only if fat toad shares his Kumas Corner burgers.

    urbanleftbehind (fde3a9)

  232. The more he screams at people to fix this, so so late, the more this becomes Trump’s pandemic.

    He wasn’t trying in January or February, and he’s already given up trying now. He’s switched from blaming this on China to blaming it on Cuomo and American workers. The only objective to Trump is that he not be held responsible, and that he get reelected. He is cutting his losses with dying Americans just like he’s cut his losses with Trump University and all his construction contracts. He’s filing bankruptcy and saying he’s not accountable for his bills. The work is for the suckers.

    Character counts. In all of Trump’s life you can’t find an example of him serving others because he wanted to. He didn’t enlist or mentor or develop anything just because he wants to help. Every project has always been about Trump benefiting. That’s not capitalism. That’s narcissism.

    I can’t imagine how guilty Trump fans must feel. It must be why they are acting so furious with us… and all we are doing is sitting here hoping our loved ones don’t need these ventilators soon.

    Dustin (928d9a)

  233. Iowan2 224,

    We were talking about this earlier on another thread. The cost of high tech ventilators can be $25-50,000, and the GM/Ventec projected price was $12,500. Since then I see Forbes reported that Ventec/GM was to get $250M for up to 20,000 ventilators. That, again, is $12,500 per ventilator.

    DRJ (15874d)

  234. Iowan2 231,

    I don’t understand this comment. The only person I’ve seen criticize GM/Ventec is Trump. What experts have objected to the efforts made by GM, Ventec, or any companies trying to help?

    DRJ (15874d)

  235. 237. So What? The experts all screamed, had to be obeyed said GM was gouging the govt. Take your complaint to FEMA, those are the experts that are infallible. We also know that President Trump was an idiot for not implementing the Defense Procurement Act, a device the federal govt can use to force corporations into action. Now that the President is doing what all you leftists demanded, he is a bully. Claiming any of you hold a principled intellectual position is nothing but a pose.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  236. I’m open to that argument but what experts? I haven’t seen that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  237. I have never claimed to hold a principled intellectual position about Trump. I have consistently said that he makes me want to throw up, like the other stuff that oozes out of a New York sewer.

    nk (1d9030)


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