Patterico's Pontifications

3/25/2020

Trump Companies Barred from Receiving Coronavirus Stimulus Money

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:55 am



[guest post by Dana]

Bloomberg is reporting:

The $2 trillion stimulus plan agreed to by White House and Senate leaders would ban any company controlled by President Donald Trump or his children from receiving loans or investments from Treasury programs.

According to a summary circulated by the office of Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, businesses owned by the president, vice president, members of Congress or heads of executive departments would be excluded from receiving that aid. The block also would also extend to companies controlled by their children, spouses or in-laws.

Trump broke with the practice of previous presidents who either divested assets that could cause conflicts of interest or put those assets in blind trusts. Instead, Trump transferred his assets to a revocable trust administered by his elder son, Donald Trump Jr., and Allen Weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization. Several Trump-branded properties have been affected by the virus-induced demand crash, as well as state and local restrictions on going out in public.

The Senate is expected to vote later today on the measure.

On a sidenote, this was Trump on Monday, answering questions about a draft of the bill, and what sort of oversight there would be to ensure a fair and responsible distribution of the $500 billion corporate slush fund:

…how the Republican stimulus bill would responsibly distribute a $500 billion corporate slush fund that currently allows for the Treasury Secretary to withhold the names of the businesses that receive bailout cash.

…Answering the question of who would provide accountability for the unrestricted distribution of half-a-trillion dollars, Trump’s response was even less promising: “I’ll be the oversight. I’ll be the oversight.”

Of course, if Trump were indeed the “oversight,” there would have been serious ethical concerns:

One obvious outcome of this financing arrangement would be to create the all-but-certain outcome that the Treasury would select the Trump Organization as one of the worthy recipients of its largesse. Trump’s vacation properties have indeed been forced to shut down, and while an unbiased manager might not select the Trump Organization over needier coronavirus victims, Trump himself probably thinks differently. Indeed, at his press conference, the president did not even bring himself to deny that he might. “Let’s just see what happens,” he replied, as if the outcome might contain any mystery … The entire concept that the federal government ought to operate independent of the president’s political whims is inherently foreign to Trump.

–Dana

172 Responses to “Trump Companies Barred from Receiving Coronavirus Stimulus Money”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. According to a summary … businesses owned by the president, vice president, members of Congress or heads of executive departments would be excluded from receiving that aid. The block also would also extend to companies controlled by their children, spouses or in-laws.

    This seems like such a large scope that it’s got to have some serious loopholes. Not saying it does just that this smells funny.

    frosty (f27e97)

  3. President Trump and the Trump family are making a financial sacrifice for the country above and beyond what other similar companies have to do. We should recognize that fact.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  4. It would be better if this provision also extended to members of Congress and their immediate family.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  5. This supposedly extends to members of Congress, as well. But, as usual, the important thing is to eff with Trump.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. They have been thoroughly corrupted by China.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  7. Poor Trump. I bet the mean ole IRS is still auditing his tax returns in the midst of all this chaos.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  8. According to a summary circulated by the office of Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, businesses owned by the president, vice president, members of Congress or heads of executive departments would be excluded from receiving that aid. The block also would also extend to companies controlled by their children, spouses or in-laws.

    If any of the many smart lawyers on this blog would be willing to read the bill and explain how ‘owned’ and ‘controlled’ are defined I would really love to read it.

    I think Trump’s refusal to put his assets into a blind trust is wrong.
    I think Trump’s refusal to release his taxes is wrong.
    I think Trump’s use of the office to enrich himself is wrong.

    I want less of that on both sides of the isle and this may be an OK first step.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  9. If he didn’t give people so many reasons to doubt his ethics, fewer people would doubt his ethics.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  10. This supposedly extends to members of Congress, as well.

    Good. I am sure the devil’s in the details of implementation, but it sounds fair at first glance.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  11. What’s mine is mine; what’s yours is negotiable…

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. CH, If this virus had been commonly called ‘Chinese Flu’ for the last 3 months by the media and the white House and someone came in today to change them name I’d wonder why. If the people pushing that had a history of being woke on very politically correct I would think they were just being PC here.

    This is 180 degrees in every particular.

    Can you propose a reason for the name change that isn’t related to scapegoating/blaming/demonizing Chinese people?

    Because it looks to me as if people who don’t like non-whites very much are trying to do exactly that.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  13. Trump Companies Barred from Receiving Coronavirus Stimulus Money

    Yes, I don’t see any problems with this legislation. The headline could just as easily read “Dianne Feinstein’s Husband’s Companies Barred from Receiving Coronavirus Stimulus Money” and be every bit as accurate.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  14. Mr. President Trump want us to call it “President Trump’s Coronavirus”. I have it in writing and I posted said writing here yesterday.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. I would like to offer my services to my country. I am willing to be the go to guy for the stimulus payouts. I have never profited from any elected position.

    Fred (c46b99)

  16. Can you propose a reason for the name change that isn’t related to scapegoating/blaming/demonizing Chinese people?

    Hypothetically?

    American propaganda to avoid blame.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  17. We can abbreviate it to PTC, and I can see now why Trump Virus would not work because we already have TV.

    nk (1d9030)

  18. Mr. President Trump owns the Coronavirus like he owns the Libs. He lives in its head rent free. Because it’s just like Trump to stiff his vendors.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  19. 14… yes!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. @17, You mean avoid blame by scapegoating/blaming….etc. etc.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  21. 10.If he didn’t give people so many reasons to doubt his ethics, fewer people would doubt his ethics.

    You’re referring to Plagiarist JoeyBee, of course.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. 13… Just a few examples

    The West Nile Virus: Was discovered to have originated along the west banks of the Nile River in Uganda in 1937.

    Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever: A pathogen discovered in 1896, whose symptoms included high fever, headaches, muscle aches, vomiting, disorientation.

    Lyme Disease: A mostly tick-borne disease discovered in the 1970s first in Lyme and Old Lyme, Connecticut.

    Ross River Fever: A mosquito-borne illness first identified on the Ross River in Australia in 1928.

    MERS (Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome): First found in Saudi Arabia in 2012 with a near 35 percent fatality rate.

    German Measles: Otherwise known as rubella, it was named because of the frequency of outbreaks there and the three German doctors who studied it first in the 18th century.

    Norovirus: We correlate that to cruise ships because that is the term synonymous with the pathogen but it comes from Norwalk, Ohio when scientists found it in 1968.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. Does this apply to giving money for businesses who then hire children of Congressmen, Senators and Secretary of State’s into high paying positions?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  24. Apparently you think the ChiComs are blameless in their cover-up and the spread of Wuhancoronavirus. I disagree.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  25. Time123 (89dfb2) — 3/25/2020 @ 10:42 am

    Can you propose a reason for the name change that isn’t related to scapegoating/blaming/demonizing Chinese people?

    I’ve heard this called the Wuhan coronavirus from the start. Reporting it as COVID-19 as opposed to SARS-CoV-2 was a propaganda move by China. Accusing people of racism by calling it a Chinese virus or the Wuhan virus is CCP propaganda.

    Because it looks to me as if people who don’t like non-whites very much are trying to do exactly that.

    China refused to allow the CDC to get involved with the process in Wuhan at the beginning. China is currently blaming the US for the virus. China has/is threatening to withhold medical supplies because we’re saying it was from China. Our press is pushing multiple CCP propaganda streams. I’m not sympathetic to these accusations of racism at all.

    frosty (f27e97)

  26. @23 those are great examples of times we’ve named a virus based on when it where it was discovered.
    But it doesn’t address the question I asked; what’s the motivation to change the commonly used name at this time, and in this case.

    @25, it’s possible to think the response and clarity by China on this is a problem and think that the people trying to change the name at this point are being sort of racist.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  27. https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-virus-is-a-fire-and-the-arsonist-is-china/

    This is the reason to hold the Chinese communist party accountable Time123.

    Wuhan Virus. Wuhan Flu.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  28. Trump and China both bear tremendous responsibility. This is why fervent supporters of either corrupt government are so thin skinned about what you call it.

    The desperate hope of Trump’s most loyal supporters is that Trump’s pandemic can be characterized as defending China. If it were sincere it would be a totally insane argument. If anything, even china’s terrible conduct was exacerbated by Trump’s awful foreign policy. No one wants to work with him, no one trusts him, and there’s really no incentive to work with Trump unless you’re Russia, which is China’s rival.

    Trump laughed off the pandemic for months and has been more interested in profiting from it and lying about miracle cures like an old harpy on facebook… just to get back to bragging about how the economy is Trump’s legacy.

    I was pretty sure Trump would be known as the worst president in American history a couple of years ago, for good reason. Now, anyone who doesn’t see that is beyond reason. Trump could get more Americans killed than any American enemy managed to. The more clear it becomes to the die-hards, the nastier they will have to get, just to justify their mistake.

    Atlanta has no ICU beds left. Your city is next.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  29. Time123 you’re also gaslighting by claiming that those who call it a Chinese virus or Wuhan Flu or anything else are the ones changing its name. That’s what it was originally called. Those who changed it did so to either be politically correct or at the direction of the Chinese government that threatened the media and their corporations with sanctions for not doing so.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  30. Frosty, are you denying that it’s been commonly refereed to as Corona-virus? I know it’s been called other things, but most of the references have been to corona-virus.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  31. This is the reason to hold the Chinese communist party accountable Time123.

    Time123 did not say ‘do not hold the Chinese government responsible’. Time123 did not say ‘The chinese government is not communist’. He noted that there was a name and Trump fans want to change the name.

    The reason is so they can have this manufactured controversy. They hope to force Trump critics into defending China. They conduct this propaganda as Americans are dying.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  32. Frosty/NJ Rob I’m out on this one. It was commonly called Corona-Virus months. Now people want to change it. It’s pretty obvious why, but this isn’t an issue where things i write are going to change people’s minds. I will leave with this; Two of my friends are Asian (Born in the US FWIW) and they’ve both told me they started getting shit on about this when the push came to change the name.

    [This comment went to moderation because of the word shit. The filter stops any comment with that word from posting.]

    Time123 (dba73f)

  33. To the degree that this was added to spite Trump, it seem exceedingly petty. Trump has a legitimate business that is clearly impacted by this virus. To say, well, it includes Congress is a bit of a facade since few members of Congress own hotel chains. And I doubt that the Feinstein holdings in airline stocks will trigger the provision, assuming that the Feinstein’s insider dumping of stocks in February/March left them with any exposure.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. The constant drumbeat about Trump using the office for his personal gain is so absurd. He’s lost Billions by being President. But that won’t stop the never-trumpers/Democrats from constantly chanting it, day after day. The idea that these corrupt US Senators who didn’t want to investigate Biden/Hillary corruption are so CONCERNED about possible Trump corruption is laughable. If other resorts are getting bailout $, so should the trump resorts.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  35. Wrong Dustin. You cannot speak for those who call it what it is and want people to understand where this virus originated. I understand you hate the president and want him to go away and suffer, but that doesn’t mean you can dismiss the truth because it doesn’t support your wishes.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  36. It’s possible for more than one thing to be true.

    1. The Chinese government lied about the nature of the virus, making its spread worse.
    2. Trump is attempting to divert blame from his own mismanagement of the situation.

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  37. This seems like such a large scope that it’s got to have some serious loopholes. Not saying it does just that this smells funny.

    The operative words are “owned by”, which would suggest that merely owning a large interest would not trigger the provision. So, people like Maxine Water’s interests in that scammy bank would’t matter.

    This is one of those even-handed “rich and poor people are prohibited from sleeping under bridges” laws. The target is Trump and likely the only impact will be on Trump. The rest of it is protective coloration.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. Poor Trump. I bet the mean ole IRS is still auditing his tax returns in the midst of all this chaos.

    If the only effect is on Trump, it’s a bill of attainder. Do you support bills of attainder against people you don’t like?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. BTW, Trump tweeted this regarding Romney testing negative:

    This is really great news! I am so happy I can barely speak. He may have been a terrible presidential candidate and an even worse U.S. Senator, but he is a RINO, and I like him a lot!

    Classic Trump. Romney’s on our side, sorta, and Trump likes him personally.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  40. “The constant drumbeat about Trump using the office for his personal gain is so absurd. He’s lost Billions by being President.”

    No he hasn’t.

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  41. “Dianne Feinstein’s Husband’s Companies Barred from Receiving Coronavirus Stimulus Money” and be every bit as accurate.

    Directly, maybe. But the companies her companies are invested in? No. The word is “OWNED” not “invested in.” So, if Feinstein Co owns 93% of Schlub Airways, there is nothing that prevents Schlub Airways from getting the benefits of this bill.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. @23. And, of course, there’s “Montezuma’s Revenge” -(var. Moctezuma’s revenge) …”a colloquial term for travelers’ diarrhea contracted in Mexico. The name refers to Moctezuma II (1466–1520), the Tlatoani (ruler) of the Aztec civilization who was overthrown by the Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés in the early 16th century, thereby bringing large portions of what is now Mexico and Central America under the rule of the Spanish crown.” -source, wikibugaboos

    There’s an orange fella who says building a wall can stop it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Nothing would be gained by Trump releasing his tax returns. Mittens released his tax returns and got ZERO credit for it from the D’s. Give them nothing. Its impossible to be nice to the D’s or the MSM (Same thing). They give nothing in return, and think being nice or giving in to their demands is weakness. “Just win Baby” is their motto, or as Harry Reid said “Who cares if its a lie, it worked didn’t it?”

    rcocean (1a839e)

  44. To the degree that this was added to spite Trump, it seem exceedingly petty.

    He is a notoriously corrupt president who should have properly divested himself as a matter of principle. The doubt citizens have for their government is so high that avoiding appearance (or hell… knowledge of material) impropriety is a reasonable thing for our legislature to do. Checks and balances.

    He’s lost Billions by being President.

    Facebook memes lol. He’s enriched himself selfishly and many of our leaders tried really hard to cash out as much as they could by delaying the response to the President Donald J Trump Pandemic. They did this saying to themselves, and eventually to us, that our grandmas are willing to die to boost the economy… of course only the well connected cash out in time because our administration lied to us.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  45. but he is a RINO

    If there was any word I would like to see people hit with a ball-peen hammer for uttering, it’s RINO. There is no such thing, unless you want to count people who only become Republicans when it’s convenient. Like Bloomberg, or Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. This may be the .

    DRJ (76a58a)

  47. Sorry. This may be the text of the bill.

    DRJ (76a58a)

  48. Or maybe one of these bills.

    DRJ (76a58a)

  49. The constant drumbeat about Trump using the office for his personal gain is so absurd. He’s lost Billions by being President. But that won’t stop the never-trumpers/Democrats from constantly chanting it, day after day. The idea that these corrupt US Senators who didn’t want to investigate Biden/Hillary corruption are so CONCERNED about possible Trump corruption is laughable. If other resorts are getting bailout $, so should the trump resorts.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:28 am

    I assert that the bolded portion is not be proven through available information and that anyone who asserts it without proof is lying.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  50. He is a notoriously corrupt president who should have properly divested himself as a matter of principle

    I am utterly opposed to forcing people to sell their assets in order to be elected to office. To do so would be to limit office-holders to those who cannot build a working business.

    And why your dislike for someone should manifest itself in wanting them to have a law passed against them bewilders me. You do know that kind of thing was banned in the Constitution, don’t you? Trump may have a valid claim that this constitutes a bill of attainder if he is the only person it applies to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. also I seem to have a comment in moderation?

    I’ll try to re-post it.

    Frosty/NJ Rob I’m out on this one. It was commonly called Corona-Virus months. Now people want to change it. It’s pretty obvious why, but this isn’t an issue where things i write are going to change people’s minds. I will leave with this; Two of my friends are Asian (Born in the US FWIW) and they’ve both told me they started getting shit on about this when the push came to change the name.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  52. wonder what I said in 33 that’s causing it to be moderated?

    [It’s the word “shit” that is pushing it into moderation. I fished it out and it’s the comment just above this one. – JVW]

    Time123 (dba73f)

  53. Time123 (dba73f) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:21 am

    I am denying that this is new. It was called the Wuhan coronavirus from the beginning based on what we know about the origin. This was frequently shortened to just coronavirus. Then it officially became COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 and has been reported as COVID-19 and often as the COVID-19 virus when that is also not correct. The official name of the virus is SARS-CoV-2. The name of the virus isn’t used because the CCP immediately started a propaganda push concerning the name.

    Now we’ve got people who are happy to play along with CCP propaganda because they hate Trump. There is some pushback against that because the CCP influence is obvious. I don’t fault Trump at all for that.

    frosty (f27e97)

  54. The doubt citizens have for their government is so high that avoiding appearance (or hell… knowledge of material) impropriety is a reasonable thing for our legislature to do. Checks and balances.

    The requirements are 1) native born citizen, 2) 35 years of age, and 3) 14 years a US resident. Nothing in there about divesting, and George Washington, the richest man in America, divested nothing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. He’s lost Billions by being President.

    One of the ways to support this crazy assertion would be for President Trump to release his tax returns. No, I don’t believe that he ought to be required to do so, but unless he does then I have no choice but to laugh derisively at the idea that the Trump Empire has lost money during his Presidency. If anything, they’ve probably avoided further bankruptcies over the past three years.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  56. “Trump may have a valid claim that this constitutes a bill of attainder if he is the only person it applies to.”

    Kevin, neither you nor anyone else in this thread has seen the text of the bill, so maybe save your pearl clutching until we have more info.

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  57. Mittens released his tax returns and got ZERO credit for it from the D’s.

    Who cares? You do the right thing because it’s the right thing.

    Trump promised he would show us he tax returns. He said he was eager to do so. He lied to us. The president lying to the American people is wrong, but Trump does it all the time, and you’re defending it because the burden for a republican to tell the truth is for the democrats to give him credit? More accurately, the burden is however far you have to stretch things so that Trump bears no responsibility for what he said he would do.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  58. I am a believer that even the most despicable person is entitled to the same rights as the most loved. And Trump is far from the most despicable man in America. Example, Bernie Madoff. Maybe Bernie Sanders.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. So, any argument that starts with “Trump is a turd” tells me that the rest of the argument is going to be predicated on that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. Kevin, neither you nor anyone else in this thread has seen the text of the bill, so maybe save your pearl clutching until we have more info.

    This is petty and you know this is petty. You just like being petty in this instance.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. I am utterly opposed to forcing people to sell their assets in order to be elected to office. To do so would be to limit office-holders to those who cannot build a working business.

    And why your dislike for someone should manifest itself in wanting them to have a law passed against them bewilders me. You do know that kind of thing was banned in the Constitution, don’t you? Trump may have a valid claim that this constitutes a bill of attainder if he is the only person it applies to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:40 am

    Even if it’s intended to target him so long as the bill isn’t specific to Trump I think it’s fine from a bill of attainder POV. It’s not personal. I don’t want the president running the country specifically for their own financial benefit. If you want to be president I want you to put your assets into a blind trust. That’s true for me regardless of who is running. We need more transparency and less self dealing.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  62. @41.Just like the inaugural crowd count. It’s fun watching him try to construct a fake reality then fake everyone out by insisting it’s ‘fake news’ for not accepting and living it.

    He’ll insist it’s all behind us by Easter, encourage the church pews be filled with lambs to the slaughter and open the country for business as usual.

    “Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead!” – The Dead Collector [Eric Idle] Monty Python And The Holy Grail 1975

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. thanks JVW, i’ll refrain from swearing in the future.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  64. @59.Example, Bernie Madoff. Maybe Bernie Sanders.

    Certainly Ronald Reagan. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. Davethulhu (3857ea) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:30 am

    It’s possible for more than one thing to be true.
    1. The Chinese government lied about the nature of the virus, making its spread worse.
    2. Trump is attempting to divert blame from his own mismanagement of the situation.

    Also possible:
    1. NeverTrump to score points off a pandemic
    2. by parroting CCP propaganda

    frosty (f27e97)

  66. Time123 (dba73f) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:21 am

    I am denying that this is new. It was called the Wuhan coronavirus from the beginning based on what we know about the origin. This was frequently shortened to just coronavirus. Then it officially became COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 and has been reported as COVID-19 and often as the COVID-19 virus when that is also not correct. The official name of the virus is SARS-CoV-2. The name of the virus isn’t used because the CCP immediately started a propaganda push concerning the name.

    Now we’ve got people who are happy to play along with CCP propaganda because they hate Trump. There is some pushback against that because the CCP influence is obvious. I don’t fault Trump at all for that.

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:42 am

    I thought about doing a google analytics for the different things this has been called. I’m pretty sure that would show “corona-virus’ was the commonly used name. I didn’t because I didn’t think it would be compelling to anyone.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  67. If you want to be president I want you to put your assets into a blind trust.

    Bankers can clip coupons, but they cannot run even a hardware store.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. @47. They [media and Congresscritters ]keep saying it is 1,000-plus pages.

    They outta get through it by dinner time. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. Frosty, was Turmp parroting CCP propaganda when he called it corona-virus in January, Feb and most of march?

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  70. Certainly Ronald Reagan.

    Percentage-wise of people who know of them, I think Reagan scores more likes than DCSCA. 😉

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. Nothing in there about divesting, and George Washington, the richest man in America, divested nothing.

    Washington was very far from “the richest man in America”. He spent a LOT of his life, including his later years, desperately trying to keep his head above water.

    Amazing…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  72. Time123 (89dfb2) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:52 am

    Are you denying that this has been considered a virus from China from the beginning?

    frosty (f27e97)

  73. @74, Not at all.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  74. “2. by parroting CCP propaganda”

    Which of my points is CCP propaganda?

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  75. &2,

    OK, you are going to have to source that. Every thing I read says that he was worth over 500 million 2020 dollars near the end of his life. He had 3 times the wealth of the US Debt at the time.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2020/02/25/americas-12-wealthiest-presidents-3/
    https://www.businessinsider.com/george-washington-richest-president-us-history-2017-1
    https://www.moaf.org/exhibits/checks_balances/george-washington/washington_family

    Now, JEFFERSON was in debt his whole life, but not Washington. I have heard arguments that John Hancock was richer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. Sounds like Trump properties could benefit….

    Time123 (dba73f)

  77. *@72

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Meant to add a clip from the article.

    Despite the effort by Democrats to limit access by top federal officials to the bailout funds, the law would still leave room for Mr. Trump to benefit. At least two of the provisions, intended to help the hotel and restaurant industries, could potentially provide financial help to the Trump Organization.

    A spokesman for the Trump Organization did not respond to a request for comment. Mr. Trump declined to respond to a question this week about whether his family business intended to take advantage of any of the tax breaks or other benefits included in the legislation.

    “I don’t know,” Mr. Trump said at a news conference on Sunday. “I just don’t know what the government assistance would be for what I have. I have hotels.”

    Many of these special-interest provisions would be impossible for a casual reader of the legislation to identify. They are written in highly technical language that often does not even mention by name the industry that is supposed to benefit.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  79. Pretty sure the whole “bill of attainder” is bogus.

    A bill criminalizes a person without trial, by legislative act.

    A bill that operates on a class of people to withhold a benefit doesn’t seem to come close to that definition.

    Duh Donald CAN, of course, make a Federal case out of this. That would seem very weak if he signs the bill. He COULD veto the bill on a constitutional stand, but that would be…unwise.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  80. http://patterico.com/2020/03/25/trump-companies-barred-from-receiving-coronavirus-stimulus-money/#comment-2328725

    Those who mischaracterize contentions they disagree with (i.e., restate by casting them in dishonest terms) and who consistently impugn the motives of the people they disagree with, do NOT engage in good faith.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  81. Allowing Trump owner properties to benefit from things that everyone can benefit from seems OK to me. Targeted bailouts (like what Boeing is getting) do not seem OK.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  82. Time123 (89dfb2) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:53 am

    You are misrepresenting my comments. It was called the Wuhan coronavirus from the start. It was often shortened to coronavirus for convenience. It was after the push by China to rename it and then assert that it came from the US that you’ve started seeing people push back.

    To the degree that Trump initially didn’t want to stress the China origin, I don’t think that was him spreading CCP propaganda because it wasn’t obvious at the start. I don’t think calling covid or coronavirus now is playing along with it either. But implying people are racist for calling it the wuhan or chinese coronavirus is.

    frosty (f27e97)

  83. Davethulhu (3857ea) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:59 am

    Which of my points is CCP propaganda?

    Did I say you specifically were pushing CCP propaganda? Or did I just poke at your two things can be true comment?

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. You are misrepresenting my comments. It was called the Wuhan coronavirus from the start. It was often shortened to coronavirus for convenience. It was after the push by China to rename it and then assert that it came from the US that you’ve started seeing people push back.

    To the degree that Trump initially didn’t want to stress the China origin, I don’t think that was him spreading CCP propaganda because it wasn’t obvious at the start. I don’t think calling covid or coronavirus now is playing along with it either. But implying people are racist for calling it the wuhan or chinese coronavirus is.

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Sounds like we’re pretty close to agreeing, but i’m not totally sure i get what you’re saying. This doesn’t completely make sense. What does To the degree that Trump initially didn’t want to stress the China origin, I don’t think that was him spreading CCP propaganda because it wasn’t obvious at the start. mean? What wasn’t obvious?

    Time123 (dba73f)

  85. Now, JEFFERSON was in debt his whole life, but not Washington. I have heard arguments that John Hancock was richer.

    Read a biography. What I said is history. Washington was land rich and cash poor. He was forced to dun tenants on his land to scrape along. Even entertaining visitors was a burden, and he was never able to afford projects on Mt. Vernon, for instance.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  86. Washington was land rich and cash poor.

    This is correct. It’s akin to the guy today who is very wealthy on paper because he owns land and stock, but his checking account balance is quite low and he has difficulty scraping together cash. Towards the end of his life Washington actually found himself having to sell land in order to cover his expenses, which he was loath to do.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  87. Time123 (dba73f) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    There was a time when China wasn’t full-court pressing the propaganda. At that point, it was a politically neutral statement to call it the Wuhan virus or just coronavirus. These terms were used interchangeably. Even now to just call it covid or coronavirus should be relatively neutral.

    So, the CCP propaganda either didn’t exist or wasn’t as obvious in the beginning as it is now. For example, it seemed relatively harmless to refer to the virus as COVID19 instead of SARS-CoV-2 when China started that push. I wouldn’t want the SARS association either. But now it seems obvious that was the start of the CCP effort to push any blame for the virus someplace else.

    frosty (f27e97)

  88. Thanks Frosty, I see what you’re saying now. I didn’t before.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  89. Time123 (dba73f) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:15 pm

    Your original question was whether Trump was pushing CCP propaganda.

    Maybe. I don’t know which example you’re talking about and it’s certainly possible. I’m not trying to defend him.

    I’m not sure the suggestions about saving the economy aren’t CCP propaganda either. Like any good pimp, the CCP is more concerned about cash flow than anything else.

    frosty (f27e97)

  90. You addressed my point in your previous comment, that there can be multiple reasons to do a thing. I think the name of the virus fight is about the CCP and Trump trying to move the conversation from the things they did poorly to a culture war fight where they can pit nationalism/racism against an ‘outside’ threat.

    I don’t think they’re coordinating. They just both have a similar play here.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  91. That would seem very weak if he signs the bill. He COULD veto the bill on a constitutional stand, but that would be…unwise.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:06 pm

    After all that talk about Pelosi being outrageous with her shoving in talk of carbon footprint of airlines and how there is no excuse for holding up this bill, that would be hilarious (if you don’t think too hard about society). A lot of Americans are hurting to feed their families and keep a roof over them, so concern that Trump can’t steal even more of our tax dollars for himself… amazing.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  92. I think there are two main possibilities about the colloquial virus name fight:

    1. China is responsible, and wants to deflect responsibility, which the Trump administration does not want them to get away with, in part for fear that it will be blamed, even if the chain of events was natural or started accidentally.

    2. America is responsible, and wants to deflect responsibility, which the Trump administration does not want to assume for fear it/he will be blamed, even if the chain of events started accidentally.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  93. 1. NeverTrump to score points off a pandemic
    2. by parroting CCP propaganda

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:50 am

    This is such a zealous and craven Trump defense.

    Of course Trump handling a crisis horribly, lying to us that it is even a pandemic before admitting he knew it all along, is an issue worthy of criticism. That you would say this is something ‘nevertrump’ scoring points, like it’s not legitimate to criticize the president, is just not how America works.

    CCP propaganda… lol ok man.

    But I already called this. Trump defense is so irrational that it might as well be irrational.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  94. @71. Some people learn the hard way; others never learn at all:

    deregulation then; bailouts now; Reaganomics. Like the coronavirus, a tough bug to kill:

    ‘Ronald Reagan rarely catches any blame these days for the present economic mess that is destabilizing markets in the United States and around the world. In fact, Americans often praise the former president for taking the country in bold new directions during his years in the White House. Politicians contribute to this love-fest by naming schools and roads after the iconic president. These admirers rarely acknowledge how central Reagan’s ideas are to the market difficulties troubling us today. As the country’s greatest modern champion of deregulation, perhaps Ronald Reagan contributed more to today’s unstable business climate than any other American. His long-standing campaign against the role of government in American life, a crusade he often stretched to extremes, produced conditions that ultimately proved bad for business… Economist Milton Friedman served as [Reaganomics] principal philosopher and Newt Gingrich was a leading advocate in Congress.’ -source, https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/53527

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. The idea that one’s opponent’s (potentially war) propaganda has to be fake and one’s own propaganda can be trusted is, I feel, naive and ahistorical.

    It might be a great quality to facilitate winning, however.

    (originally posted elsewhere in error)

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  96. A bill that operates on a class of people to withhold a benefit doesn’t seem to come close to that definition.

    Assuming that the wider class exists.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. Washington was land rich and cash poor.

    Land rich is rich. Jeff Bezos is stock rich. Even if every dime he spends is borrowed against his stock, he is still the richest man in America.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. But again, no links from you ever.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  99. But again, no links from you ever.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/25/2020 @ 1:14 pm

    Who are you talking to?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  100. Let’s say that Ragspierre owns a blue-polka-dot Porsche 911 turbo. A law is passed saying that all persons owning a blue-polka-dot Porche 911 turbo on day X are forever barred from collecting government benefits.

    Rags complains, saying this is a bill of attainder, and I reply, Why, no, this applioes to all persons owning a blue-polka-dot Porsche on the day in question. The wiser class has to exist, and as far as hotels and resorts — a prime beneficiary of this law — he and his family are likely the only person selected out.

    Further, the law was crafted with exactly that intent (in-laws, for god’s sakes!)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. Try that 2nd part again:

    The wider class has to exist, and as far as hotels and resorts — a prime beneficiary of this law — Trump and his family are likely the only person selected out.

    Further, the law was crafted with exactly that intent (in-laws, for god’s sakes!)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. Who are you talking to?

    Ragspierre. I asked him for links and he said “go read a biography”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. But again, no links from you ever.

    Here. https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZSBR&pc=MOZI&q=washington+a+life+ron+chernow

    904 pages, heavily annotated. Just finished it a few weeks ago.

    Learn some damn thing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  104. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:55 pm

    You keep abusing those pearls. You are also very inconsistent. That you do it in the same post and don’t notice is a constant source of amazement.

    You would be the first to maintain that two things can be true at the same time when it suits your point of view. It’s certainly true that there are some people using this crisis to their political advantage. Some of those people are NeverTrumpers. It’s just as fair to criticize NeverTrump opportunists as it is to criticize Trumpers.

    Let me put it a different way; there is a lot to criticize Trump for and it can also be true that some of the criticism is scoring points.

    I also noticed how you changed the argument. I never said anything about claims that it wasn’t a pandemic and I certainly didn’t say that was CCP propaganda. If this were reversed I’d expect you to say I was lying about what you said.

    frosty (f27e97)

  105. I asked him for links and he said “go read a biography”

    Ah ha. I understand now. I asked because I literally can’t get any links through despite recent attempts to troubleshoot it, using different devices, browsers, operating systems, IP addresses, Internet networks (and no, I don’t use a VPN), locations, usernames, email addresses. No idea why, although this isn’t pertinent to your discussion with Mr. Ragspierre.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  106. MAOA: Try Opera with the VPN enabled (built-into the browser).

    whembly (fd57f6)

  107. Rags complains, saying this is a bill of attainder

    But Ragspierre, Kevin From Home Alone, would never say any such stupid thing.

    A bill of attainder acts to CRIMINALIZE WITH TRIAL. https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZCON&pc=MOZI&q=bill+of+attainder

    Now, go and tell Duh Donald that he should veto the bill. Call right now!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  108. Since Trump refused to meaningfully mitigate the likelihood of conflicts of interest rooted in his continued operation of his businesses, Congress has mitigated that likelihood for him. You believe that conflicts of interest are a real thing, right? Problematic for someone as powerful as a US President?

    Do you want Trump signing bills because they’re good for country, or because they’re good for his bottom line?

    This is not a bill of attainder. It’s about who does or does not get federal money, not about who is guilty of something.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  109. frosty if you’re going to be sensitive and take it personally that I am harshly critical of Trump, who is an idiot, I can’t change that. I don’t really mind that you’re one of the most passionate Trump defenders on the planet … It’s good to see it. But it gets tedious if you present your view as just neutral fairness.

    Obviously when everyone pretends they never supported Trump you’ll be first in line saying of course everyone knew he was an idiot all along.

    Which hey… he sure was.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  110. Land rich is rich. Jeff Bezos is stock rich. Even if every dime he spends is borrowed against his stock, he is still the richest man in America.

    Again, you don’t know WTF you are talking about. Not only can I not get information into your head, I don’t want to try any longer.

    I love you just the way you are…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  111. Learn some damn thing.

    Like what “rich” means?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. “Attainder” is the the forfeiture of land and/or civil rights. It was historically associated with a penalty for criminal behavior, notably treason, but the BILL of attainder was the penalty imposed by legislation. A bill that says “Joe Blow’s land is forfeit because we say so” is a bill imposing attainder.

    In both Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, where Nixon’s tapes were seized by the government, and United States v. Lovett, where “subversives” were barred from federal employment, the court allowed that even where the punishment was unrelated to a crime, it still could be a bill of attainder if a punishment was meted out nonetheless.

    In the Nixon case they went on to decide that it was not a punishment, as Nixon was compensated for the tapes.

    In the Lovett case the Court held that Congress may not forbid the payment of a salary to a specific individual, as it would constitute an unconstitutional bill of attainder.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  113. Are you going to address the subject of conflicts of interest?

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  114. Like what “rich” means?

    That would be a start.

    Next, explore the incredible differences between Washington and Bezos in the context of their time.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  115. 113. Called the WH yet? Be SURE to recite your wikiwork when you do.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  116. A bill that says “Joe Blow’s land is forfeit because we say so” is a bill imposing attainder.

    Or eminent domain.

    Kidding…kidding…!!!

    Get on that blower to the WH, STAT…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  117. Not a Bill of Attainder

    “the deal would “prohibit businesses controlled by the president, vice-president, members of Congress, and heads of executive departments from receiving loans or investments from treasury programs. The children, spouses and in-laws of the aforementioned principals are also included in this prohibition.”

    It’s an anti-corruption provision, of the sort necessitated by Trump’s refusal to mitigate the conflicts of interest that you don’t want to acknowledge, Kevin.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  118. Kevin M — I don’t support bills of attainder, no.

    But at the same time, based on his behavior as a businessman over decades, I don’t trust him to not use his office to fleece the taxpayer for his personal benefit. So I think some sort of limit on his ability to do so is required.

    I’m happy to have those regulations imposed across the board on anyone in high office, and I think that’s the only ethical way to adopt such regulations. But I want the regulations adopted nonetheless, as I think they’re a required safeguard against us becoming a banana republic, and the only reason they aren’t already in place is that we’ve never before been faced with the risk in the way that we are today.

    aphrael (7962af)

  119. Kerr proposed as part of the appropriations bill a section denying the payment of a salary to Watson, Dodd, and Lovett. Although divisive, his measure passed the House. The Senate Appropriations Committee and the full Senate unanimously and repeatedly rejected the measure. However, the House made it clear that they would not approve an appropriations bill without the provision and after five conference reports, the Senate finally acceded and passed a version of the Urgent Deficiency Appropriation Act of 1943 that included Kerr’s provision. President Roosevelt signed the bill while simultaneously declaring his belief that Kerr’s provision was unconstitutional.[1][2]

    See the essential difference? No. Of course not.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  120. It’s an anti-corruption provision, of the sort necessitated by Trump’s refusal to mitigate the conflicts of interest that you don’t want to acknowledge, Kevin.

    So, you admit it is targeted at Trump.

    The children, spouses and in-laws of the aforementioned principals are also included in this prohibition.

    That’s not common, is it? Really, the only people who OWN a privately-held company of any size that would normally be aided by the provisions of the law are the Trumps. Not even those Senators and Congressmen who dumped all their stock after private briefings on Covid-19. The companies they invest in, or even control, are still eligible, so long as they do not “own” them.

    Oh, it probably isn’t an actual bill of attainder as there is probably some other people it mildly affects, but it is one in spirit and in intent. Which simply makes it petty. Perhaps that’s Trump’s karma, but I really would not want to be the guiy who tried to out-petty Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  121. See the essential difference? No. Of course not.

    Of course I do. I did at the beginning. The way the provision has been narrowed to those specifically named limits the Constitutional protection rather completely. The Congress in Lovett could have found some global-seeming language to accomplish the same task, and it would have passed muster. More’s the pity.

    Still it walks and talks like the same duck, it’s petty, and it’s wrong. And it’s wrong because Congress INTENDED to pick out the Trump Organization in particular.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. “ Land rich is rich.”

    https://youtu.be/Nl9409NQPuU
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  123. But what about Trump’s approval rating improving since the coronavirus crisis began? Indeed, Trump’s approval rating has improved in recent days so that it’s among the highest ratings of his presidency. As I mentioned, his approval rating among voters is now roughly 45 percent, which is up from 43 or 44 percent since early March, while his disapproval rating has fallen from 52 to 53 percent to 51 percent.

    However, compared with typical rally-around-the-flag effects that follow national crises, these gains are fairly meager. For instance, Bush’s approval rating improved from 51 percent to 86 percent following the September 11 attacks, and Carter’s approval rating nearly doubled in 1979 in the immediate wake of the Iran hostage crisis. (Granted, both of their ratings declined sharply from there.) But Trump is also not seeing nearly as much of an approval rating bounce as other leaders in Western countries, such as Italy’s Giuseppe Conte, France’s Emmanuel Macron, and the UK’s Boris Johnson. So it’s not clear that a small approval rating gain is a bullish sign for Trump.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  124. Read the whole thing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  125. I’d like to know who put that Kennedy Center money into this bill.

    Anyone here complaining about Trump hotels getting money want to defend using this bill to send money to the Kennedy Center?

    frosty (f27e97)

  126. 122

    Noooopa. I love you just the way you are…

    There’s a saying; “You don’t screw with a working man’s money”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  127. “Anyone here complaining about Trump hotels getting money want to defend using this bill to send money to the Kennedy Center?”

    Who owns the Kennedy Center, frosty?

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  128. Who owns the Kennedy Center, frosty?

    [Raises hand] Waives hand.] I know! I know! It’s the United States government, isn’t it, Mr. thulhu?

    And now maybe, comrades, is you understand how Trump has 95% approval rating among “Republicans”?

    nk (1d9030)

  129. Anyone here complaining about Trump hotels getting money want to defend using this bill to send money to the Kennedy Center?

    /facepalm

    Dave (1bb933)

  130. @126. Anyone here complaining about Trump hotels getting money want to defend using this bill to send money to the Kennedy Center?

    Actually, Trump defended it in his presser/briefing. But he’s not here– in more ways than one.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. 128. 129. 130. Three days ago, some of you here were mocking my desire to have a job when this all blows over. “You’ll find another job if you lose this one,” you said. The irony is not lost on me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  132. Jackson Browne has it.

    “Doctor My Eyes,” indeed.

    Icy (6abb50)

  133. And then we’ll put our dark glasses on
    And Wu Ping Cough until our strength is gone
    And when the morning light comes streaming in
    We’ll get up and do it again

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  134. 132 Why does keeping the Kennedy Center solvent mean there won’t be sandwich shops in South Dakota hiring when this all blows over?

    Dave (1bb933)

  135. Davethulhu (3857ea) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:17 pm

    Dave (1bb933) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:29 pm

    I think you are missing the point. Do you think I was thinking the Kennedy’s owned it or something?

    Why does the bill have any money for the Kennedy Center at all? Why should it have any spending on anything not directly related to responding to covid? How does specific funding for the Kennedy Center relate to covid? It’s not about employment benefits since that should be covered by some generic provision.

    Presumably, /facepalm implies you think spending money on the performing arts is essential to respond to covid? Of all the important parts of the economy, you think the Kennedy Center rates right now?

    frosty (f27e97)

  136. 135. It doesn’t. But I really don’t give a greasy brown s**t who gets the money, because I don’t want to have to need it. This is how the government gets away with expanding its power over the weaksauce objections of “conservatives.” If y’all are arguing about who deserves how much, the government’s already won.

    Gryph (08c844)

  137. Here’s what CNN says about the Kennedy Center:

    The bill contains $25 million to support the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, DC.

    A Democratic aide familiar with the negotiations said the funding has bipartisan support.
    “This is a federal agency that is funded by a mixture of appropriations and ticket revenues. They’ve had to cancel all their performances, so they have no revenue and have already laid off nearly 800 people. If they don’t get a cash infusion, they will become insolvent and could be unable to reopen,” the aide said.

    The Kennedy Center closed on March 17 and does not plan to reopen until at least May 10.

    It’s a government facility that is quite unusual in that it relies on ticket revenues to meet its expenses (which is good – the people who take advantage of its services should pay to support them).

    But that also means that, unlike other cultural landmarks in Washington, like the Smithsonian, which don’t charge admission and are entirely supported by the federal budget (and private donations), they can’t just close now and re-open like nothing happened when the pandemic ends.

    Dave (1bb933)

  138. This is how the government gets away with expanding its power over the weaksauce objections of “conservatives.”

    Taking action to prevent an existing government facility from having to shut down is “expanding the government’s power”?

    Dave (1bb933)

  139. nk (1d9030) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:25 pm

    And now maybe, comrades, is you understand how Trump has 95% approval rating among “Republicans”?

    nk (1d9030) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:55 pm

    Seriously. Donald Trump’s support comes from his ability to find people and things for his supporters to hate and then fan the flames of those hates.

    Dave (1bb933) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:39 pm

    And his cultists reflexively defend whatever he says or does, however insane and destructive.

    Dave (1bb933) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:29 pm

    /facepalm

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/25/2020 @ 4:32 pm

    Actually, Trump defended it in his presser/briefing. But he’s not here– in more ways than one.

    No one tell Dustin. It’s going to be hard for him to circle the square and keep calling me a deranged Trumper when I’m not reflexively defending Trump when he says this funding was needed to fight covid. Not to mention a bunch of NeverTrumpers agreeing with Trump on unneeded spending in a bill to fight covid.

    frosty (f27e97)

  140. You have still not addressed the conflict of interest issue, Kevin.

    Do you want Trump signing bills because they’re good for country, or because they’re good for his bottom line?

    You might (maybe) argue that the two are one and the same in this instance, but surely you could think of situations where the two diverged.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  141. Covidiots

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  142. The $2 trillion pork is not to fight President Trump’s Coronavirus. It is, ostensibly, to ameliorate its economic effects, and less ostensibly its effect on 435 Representatives’ and 33 Senators’ reelections. And it’s already working in one area — the stock market is up by 500 points today.

    nk (1d9030)

  143. No one tell Dustin. It’s going to be hard for him to circle the square and keep calling me a deranged Trumper when I’m not reflexively defending Trump when he says this funding was needed to fight covid. Not to mention a bunch of NeverTrumpers agreeing with Trump on unneeded spending in a bill to fight covid.

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/25/2020 @ 5:05 pm

    Aw shucks

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  144. “So, you admit it is targeted at Trump.”

    – Kevin M

    It’s targeted at corruption and nepotism. The fact that Trump presents a major risk of corruption and nepotism does not make this a bill of attainder.

    Legislature: passes RICO

    Organized crime: Hey! Bill of Attainder!

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  145. nk’s pithy response beats anything I’d say. If you’re more worried about Trump getting our federal dollars himself than government facilities that’s deranged alright.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  146. Very nice, Colonel. 😷

    Icy (6abb50)

  147. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/25/2020 @ 5:32 pm

    So, yes it makes sense to load this bill with money for the performing arts? Honestly, that’s all I’m asking is why it made sense to put that in this bill. They’re trying to get this out the door and it needed this? I’m not even saying it shouldn’t get funding but this is supposed to be emergency relief. At least Dave made an attempt to argue that $25M for 800 people made sense. But it’s more important to prevent any benefit to the Trump organization? Anyone have any idea whether it employs more or less than 800 people and whether it would get more or less than $25M? I’m guessing no because f’ Trump and anyone who works for any of his business.

    frosty (f27e97)

  148. So, yes it makes sense to load this bill with money for the performing arts?

    As often is the case, super intense Trump fans must put words into the mouths of Trump critics.

    I don’t care if you call it ‘China Virus’ and I don’t think this dumb bill should even exist. I don’t think we should bail out cruise ships, airlines, banks, any of it. And I’ve been saying this for a long time.

    Should federal facilities be funded federally? I guess, but I don’t see why in an emergency bill.

    But obviously federally run facilities are a more legitimate recipient of federal money than Trump personally, and it is, indeed, pretty deranged to be worried this much about Trump’s financial situation. He is not in any way a victim. And he did wait far too long, ignoring dire warnings, exacerbating the economic problem. It is only natural normals don’t want him to stick his beak in the trough.

    If you find yourself using this form of argument ‘so what you’re really saying is [something you didn’t actually say]’ why not just change your position? Life’s so much better if you just believe what you’re saying!

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  149. 149. Hear hear. No bailouts. No stimulus. No federal pork. At all.

    Gryph (08c844)

  150. The $2 trillion pork is not to fight President Trump’s Coronavirus. It is, ostensibly, to ameliorate its economic effects, and less ostensibly its effect on 435 Representatives’ and 33 Senators’ reelections. And it’s already working in one area — the stock market is up by 500 points today.

    Truth. Ugh.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  151. A shout out to Icy!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  152. 151. If the lockdowns last for months as I suspect they might, 2 trillion in stimulus might not amount to much in the scheme of things.

    Gryph (08c844)

  153. I wouldn’t go that far, Gryph. Even von Mises, that’s that Austrian guy whose general philosophy is “Need a life-preserver, drowning parson, that will be five pfennigs”, agrees that there are situations when the government will need to pump money into the national economy for the short term.

    But the Kennedy Center vs. the Trump properties is not a binary choice. We can give money to one without giving it both, and I like the one where Beverly Sills sang, not the one where Jeffrey Epstein stalked underage girls.

    nk (1d9030)

  154. My 154 was to Gryph’s 150.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. 154. What do you consider short-term when businesses are forced to close under pain of fine or imprisonment? If you believe, as do I, that such closures should not be forced on the greater public in the first place, the question of Trump lining his own pocket or “emergency” fine art support becomes moot — at least for the principled.

    Gryph (08c844)

  156. @149 I ask whether someone would defend putting money for an arts center into this relief bill, you twist that into me saying it’s a bigger issue than Trump orgs having access to the benefits, and then I’m the one that’s putting words into your mouth. I also didn’t say anything about Trump benefiting personally. I didn’t say he was a victim. That is you putting words into my comments that aren’t there.

    If you don’t think this should have funded the Kennedy Center since the bill shouldn’t exist you could have just said no. But you turned this into another chance to complain about super intense Trump fans for your own personal reasons.

    It’s not crazy to think it doesn’t make sense to spend money on the Kennedy Center as part of an emergency pandemic spending bill.

    As far as your recommendation, let me help you, that all happened because you, and a couple of others, chose to interpret what I said through your own lens and map something else on to it. Me asking if someone can defend a thing isn’t me defending something else. Maybe you should consider actually reading things people post and commenting in good faith. Life is so much more interesting when you learn something new or you find you’ve got something in common with someone you didn’t expect.

    frosty (f27e97)

  157. First of all $25M is ‭0.0000125‬ (no, Mr. President, that’s not 100/25) of the $2T relief bill. So it seems kind of silly to say the stimulus was “loaded” with money for the performing arts.

    The Kennedy Center is a government facility whose ability to pay its employees and maintain its plant has been directly impacted by the loss of ticket revenue due to the germ. So it seems appropriate to address this in a germ relief bill.

    Dave (1bb933)

  158. What do you consider short-term

    Let me do the easy one. If I were in charge of the $2 trillion and you sent me your pink slip and last paycheck stub, I would cut you a check for the amount on the stub for as long as the government-ordered lockdown lasted. But no $1,000 one-time checks willy-nilly to every Willie and Nellie.

    nk (1d9030)

  159. Legislature: passes RICO

    Organized crime: Hey! Bill of Attainder!

    Apt comparison!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  160. Conservative whine; bitter dregs. The corporate pork in this bailout bill in enough to make any CEO squeal like a pig. And the sucker bait from Fox is a Kennedy Center stipend.

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. 159. Mark my words, nk: Whether by your criteria or someone else’s, no matter who is in charge that 2 trillion will run out long before CoViD-19 burns out.

    Gryph (08c844)

  162. Going back to the topic, equal protection is more on point than bill of attainder, and arguing egalitarianism on behalf of billionaire luxury resort owners (eight-person tables were $10,000 and up at the Mar-a-Lago New Year’s party) gives me the giggles.

    nk (1d9030)

  163. So, we’re pretending it’s chump change and it’s the only thing like this in the bill. That counts as an answer to my original question.

    frosty (f27e97)

  164. @163 That’s pretty much how I feel about shoveling money around into any number of pet programs. When we’re wondering whether those $1000 checks are enough and seeing jobless claims go from 280k past 300k on the way up the multiple examples of the $25M here and there to things like the 800 people at the Kennedy Center will still make perfect sense. They’ll be easy to wave away as right wing talking points.

    frosty (f27e97)

  165. 166. The good news is, I’m still employed for the time being. And my wife starts a new job tomorrow that should end our financial worries for as long as we can both remain employed. I’m sure that accounts for some of my better mood around here today.

    Gryph (08c844)

  166. Gryph (08c844) — 3/25/2020 @ 8:52 pm

    That is good news. Good luck.

    frosty (f27e97)

  167. Wonderful news, Gryph. Thank you for sharing that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  168. Still nothing on the conflict of interest point. Just confirming. I’ll drop the pursuit, having the mental note.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  169. Glad to hear it, Gryph. Long may it last.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  170. Very good news, Gryph… cheers!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


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