Patterico's Pontifications

3/24/2020

Trump: I’d Love To Have The Economy Raring To Go By Easter

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:41 pm



[guest post by Dana]

President Trump claimed today that there “would be suicides by the thousands” if Americans weren’t allowed to return to work:

“We have to put the country to work,’ he said on Fox News. “You are going to lose a number of people to the flu, but you are going to lose more people by putting the country in a massive recession or depression.”

“You are going to lose people. You are going to have suicides by the thousands,” he continued. “You can’t just come in and say, ‘Let’s close up the United States of America.'”

Following his claim, Trump said that he would like to see the economy up and running by Easter:

Trump…doubled down on his push to reopen businesses in a matter of weeks in order to reinvigorate an economy stunned by the growing pandemic.

“You can destroy a country this way, by closing it down, where it literally goes from being the most prosperous,” Trump said.

“I’d love to have it open by Easter,” Trump said. “I would love to have that. It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’ll make it an important day for this too. I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.” Easter falls on April 12 this year.

More:

Asked whether that was feasible, Trump said it’s not only possible but necessary to soon lift the current social-isolation measures that have sent the economy into a spiral.

“Again, this cure is worse than the problem,” Trump said. “Many people, in my opinion more people, are going to die if we allow this to continue. We have to get back to work.’’

Trump’s frustration about the slowed economy became more apparent as he challenged the less-than-supportive reponse to his plan by his Coronavirus Task Force:

Surgeon General Jerome Adams said: “We will assess at the end of the 14 days and we’ll figure out the most appropriate thing to do…”

[Dr.]Birx urged Americans to continue following the White House guidelines designed to slow the spread of the virus, which were released on March 16 and provided for 15 days of action. “Every American needs to continue the president’s guidelines for these next six days or seven days. We have to have them following those guidelines,” she said… Trump then broke in to say that his thinking had changed once it appeared that the mortality rate of COVID-19 was lower than the worst case estimates. (There is no way to know the true mortality rate since testing has been so limited in the United States.)

“Excuse me just one second,” Trump said. “You can’t compare this to 1918 where close to 100 million people died,” he said, referring to the 1918 flu pandemic. “If you got it, you had a 50/50 chance, or very close, of dying. I think we’re substantially under 1%, because the people that get better are not reporting,” he said. “When they came into my office, don’t forget — they said 3%, 4%, 5% — there’s a very big difference. No – we have to put our country back to work.”

Other medical experts have also pushed back on Trump’s tentative goal of Easter: Dr. Tom Inglesby, director of the Center for Health Security of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, issued a warning about any effort to ease up on social distancing measures at this juncture:

“Anyone advising the end of social distancing now, needs to fully understand what the country will look like if we do that,” he tweeted. “COVID would spread widely, rapidly, terribly, could kill potentially millions in the yr ahead with huge social and economic impact across the country.”

Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was not present during today’s townhall, said on Face the Nataion this past Sunday:

“The things that we’re seeing in this country, this physical separation at the same time as we’re preventing an influx of cases coming in, I think that’s going to go a long way to preventing us from becoming another Italy.”

More responses from health officials to the president’s projected Easter date:

Arthur Caplan, a professor of bioethics at NYU Langone Medical Center, told the New York Times, “You can’t call off the best weapon we have, which is social isolation, even out of economic desperation, unless you’re willing to be responsible for a mountain of deaths.”

Caplan added 30 days of restrictions “makes more sense than 15 days.” “Can’t we try to put people’s lives first for at least a month?” he said.

Howard Koh, a Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health professor and former Obama administration public health official, told Politico it’s “way too early to even consider rolling back any guidelines.”

“With cases and deaths rising by the day, the country must double down, not lighten up, on social distancing and related measures,” he added.

Scott Gottlieb, former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner, said in a Twitter thread, “There’s a strong and understandable desire to return to better times and a functioning economy. But it should not be lost on anyone that there’s no such thing as a functioning economy and society so long as covid-19 continues to spread uncontrolled in our biggest cities.

Ignoring the advisement of health officials, Trump seems prepared to base a critical decision that has the potential to dangerously impact untold numbers of Americans, on his continued belief that the cure is worse than the problem.

–Dana

254 Responses to “Trump: I’d Love To Have The Economy Raring To Go By Easter”

  1. Risk v. benefit.

    P.S. Trump brushed off questions about Dr. Fauci’s absence:

    “We get along very well,” Trump said in response to a question from Fox News host Bill Hemmer, who then asked, “Your relationship is good?” “I think it’s been very good. You would have heard about it if it wasn’t.” He called both Fauci and Birx “extraordinary.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. I’d like to see the economy back by Easter too. I’d like to see a lot of things since I’ve got an active imagination. But this is candy and nuts level talk.

    frosty (f27e97)

  3. Very soon now, some of the T-rump task force are going to have to decide what they can live with, and make it very clear what they recommend to the nation.

    Of course, the Great Goad Cheeto, narcissist de lux, knows what’s best for HIM, and you’re going to get it, good and hard.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  4. Dr. Fauci’s absence

    Hopefully, he’s reading up on relevant studies. It’s embarrassing to have the President’s understanding of the most important treatment aspects of this disease be superior.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  5. It’s embarrassing to have the President’s understanding of the most important treatment aspects of this disease be superior.

    It might be if it were true.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  6. Fauci was at the press conference.

    BuDuh (57252b)

  7. “Excuse me just one second,” Trump said. “You can’t compare this to 1918 where close to 100 million people died,” he said, referring to the 1918 flu pandemic. “If you got it, you had a 50/50 chance, or very close, of dying. I think we’re substantially under 1%, because the people that get better are not reporting,” he said. “When they came into my office, don’t forget — they said 3%, 4%, 5% — there’s a very big difference. No – we have to put our country back to work.”

    That, right there, is why he is in not mentally fit for the office he holds. 50/50 is in his barely functioning brain, the actual number, 2.5%. He is either lying with malice of forethought, or he’s incapable of understanding facts.

    The amount of side eye that Dr. Birx gave him was slightly funny…Until you think about the ramifications of his idiocy.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  8. @1. Fausi was at the presser and did podium duty.

    The Fox Town Hall was just odd– and you know he was addressing the core base on that platform to “buck up the troops” — and frankly, that coupled w/t presser/briefing, indicates he has a lot of free time today to do face time on the TeeVee. In the midst of a crisis, for mot CiCs, that’s bad; but OTOH, keeping this one out of the loop on TeeVee is good. But he is tone deaf w/this mess.

    They likely have internal polling indicating he is losing ground w/the base w/his poor job performance in this. His comment at the presser suggesting we’re near the end of this puts him in what-tow-line-Queeg territory.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. “It’s embarrassing to have the President’s understanding of the most important treatment aspects of this disease be superior.”

    The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  10. DSCA,

    I should have been more clear that there were two events: his briefing (which Fauci attended) and a virtual town hall (which Fauci didn’t attend). Regardless, it doesn’t change what Trump said, nor what Fauci had previously said on Sunday.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  11. The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

    I’m talking about broad treatment strategy and only that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  12. The Easter date is just nuts, typical Trump blather. I predict that in a couple of days there will be a retreat from this, someone like Pence or Lindsay will put the pressure on to say no.

    But mid-May should be doable.

    And, there needs to be preparation for the switch. For one thing, we still need significant restrictions even if people start going back to work. It clearly is not going to be business as usual.

    And, second, you need time to prepare everyone for what to do.

    So the best thing (which I hope will happen) is that in mid-April there will be an announcement about what will happen 30 days from there, with plans about what it will look like.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  13. we still need significant restrictions even if people start going back to work. It clearly is not going to be business as usual.

    Have you read about how NYC dealt with the Spanish flu? This included staggering shifts so people weren’t all on the subway together.

    It also included masks.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  14. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:28 pm

    That would be great. Unfortunately, that is totally out of character for Duh Donald.

    MAYBE something like that could come from someone who could convince him to let good sense prevail, but I don’t see that person on the scene just now. I also can’t see him letting it happen.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  15. That, right there, is why he is in not mentally fit for the office he holds. 50/50 is in his barely functioning brain, the actual number, 2.5%. He is either lying with malice of forethought, or he’s incapable of understanding facts.

    The amount of side eye that Dr. Birx gave him was slightly funny…Until you think about the ramifications of his idiocy.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:02 pm

    He always lies and he always exaggerates. So the people just can’t be reassured by him. But he also has to be the hero of all stories so he can’t defer to the pros who might be able to reassure us.

    We’ll see more and more crazy anger directed at Team D. They are helping with that by treating the relief bill in an abhorrent social engineering way and deserve a lot of anger. But we’ll see both sides spaz about the other side, while the people who point out both sides are awful will be called ‘neverbidens’ or ‘nevetrumpers’ like there’s something irrational about it.

    All that said, Trump’s terrible leadership in January and February stipulated as a big part of the problem, Trump is right to some extent. This can’t go on forever. Even if it should last, people just won’t let it. Just as much as Gryph can’t control the fact that we did shut down the economy, I can’t control that people will refuse to stay inside for a long time…

    So when we get back to work, we need to really have some clear leadership and some clear rules. And we’ve got to find a way to keep it from being another partisan football.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  16. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:02 pm

    The Spanish Flu numbers are odd and I’ve seen a wide variety of numbers. A lot of numbers are just X% of the total population in an area died and that isn’t the same thing as mortality. I’m not sure a lot of the Spanish Flu numbers help us right now.

    I’ve seen the 2.5% mortality rate for the US and 28% infected. Those numbers aren’t so far away from covid that I’d be saying “Excuse me just one second”. The opposite, in fact, every time I heard this was normal flu I was saying excuse me just one second.

    The R0 of the Spanish Flu was closer to 1.8 and covid is 2.2. That seems like a small difference but it isn’t. The numbers are starting to depress me but I don’t believe “substantially under 1%”. Maybe it makes someone feel better to think that so maybe I should let that go.

    frosty (f27e97)

  17. He always lies and he always exaggerates [a not uncommon NYC bluster]. So the people just can’t be reassured by him. But he also has to be the hero of all stories so he can’t defer to the pros who might be able to reassure us.

    You’re not really wrong, but at the same time he often manages to put his finger on the central point of an issue.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  18. The R0 of the Spanish Flu was closer to 1.8 and covid is 2.2 [highly speculative at this point, but let’s go with that].

    On the other hand, we didn’t have the capacity to mass-produce effective anti-viral combination therapies then and we do now.

    We should also add masks, as much of Asia has done and we largely did with the Spanish flu, to avoid the spread to others.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  19. That would be great. Unfortunately, that is totally out of character for Duh Donald.

    Well, he could just lie and say, what I meant is by Easter we will put out a get-back-to-work plan, that begins a one-month transition period that ends a month later. Or some other concocted story.

    In any case, we will see, but I think someone will get him there. Maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  20. 19

    From your keyboard to gawd’s ear…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  21. Well, he could just lie and say, what I meant is by Easter we will put out a get-back-to-work plan, that begins a one-month transition period that ends a month later. Or some other concocted story.

    In any case, we will see, but I think someone will get him there. Maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:39 pm

    He could say: it’s not sustainable to expect a nation like the USA to just sit and do nothing. It’s not in our character. So the big challenge will be to create 5 million ventilators and 500 million respirators by April 12 (or more realistically May 1), and then we will reopen in a controlled, sensible way, now that we are more prepared for what is coming.

    Give us a goal. Make this something we’re aspiring to accomplish instead of this mysterious issue of stats, testing, lethality, that no partisan can process properly.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  22. I noticed in one article that Trump said:

    “We’ll assess at that time and we’ll give it some more time if we need a little more time, but we need to open this country up,” he added. “We have to go back to work, much sooner than people thought.”

    And then this:

    During a private conference call with roughly 30 conservative leaders on Tuesday, Pence reinforced Trump’s eagerness to lift coronavirus-related work and travel restrictions “in a matter of weeks, not months.”

    Pence said there would be no formal decisions made until the current 15-day period of social distancing was complete when pressed on a specific timeline for lifting restrictions, according to a conference call participant who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of the private discussion.

    Pence told the group that accommodations would need to be made for the highest-risk populations if and when restrictions begin to be lifted.

    So there already is some hedging even today.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  23. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:34 pm

    Have you seen Biden’s live stream? He started slurring within 2 minutes and that’s on a teleprompter at his house. The wheel started coming off a little after 3m. He’s stuttering and slurring, PPE becomes personal productive equipment, he’s having trouble pronouncing states, etc.

    This is a presidential candidate and this live stream reminds me of the Jedi lightsaber kid. Why did they even do this live? Trump thinks people had a 50% chance of dying if they got Spanish Flu. Does Joe still have any information about the Spanish Flu in his brain?

    frosty (f27e97)

  24. Have you seen Biden’s live stream? He started slurring within 2 minutes and that’s on a teleprompter at his house.

    It was very sad.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  25. Dr. Birx isn’t too much better than Trump. She as much as admitted that she had no idea where the virus was, where it came from, or how fast it was spreading, but they still used “blunt force” anyway. Economic suicide, much? Burn the village to save it, Baby!

    Gryph (08c844)

  26. I did see that. Bernie fans were having a field day. I thought the lighting looked really odd, almost green-screen like. He can barely complete a sentence. I guess if he were not live people would keep asking where he is right now.

    That thought has me hoping Sammy is doing OK. Haven’t heard from him in a while.

    Biden’s been MIA and I wonder if he got sick, but I suspect he’s just being managed carefully at this point. He is obviously not up to the job he’s applying for. To a conservative, I don’t mind that much because I think Biden will just gather an administration similar to Obama’s. There would be some Lois Lerner there for sure unfortunately. But there’s that today too and my worst fears about Trump causing disaster seem valid.

    In a way, the need to stay off the trail should be a boon for Biden. My fear is that Sanders is nominated and this crisis is exactly the sort of thing that leads to massive mistakes with a guy like that in charge. Just as Trump is exactly the kind of idiot who causes an overcorrection after.

    SIGH

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  27. I was replying to Frosty.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  28. They likely have internal polling indicating he is losing ground w/the base w/his poor job performance in this. His comment at the presser suggesting we’re near the end of this puts him in what-tow-line-Queeg territory.

    Yes, undoubtedly. That’s why Pelosi had to drop and back away from her house bill like it was radioactive.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  29. So the big challenge will be to create 5 million ventilators and 500 million respirators by April 12 (or more realistically May 1), and then we will reopen in a controlled, sensible way, now that we are more prepared for what is coming.

    How realistic is this timeline? Further, this urge to open the economy while we’re mid-crisis, reflects Trump’s own nature: very impatient, impulsive, without restraint, without self-discipline, and ignores experts. That’s what concerns me when he throws out arbitrary dates to get people back to work. What is it based on – his own irritation and impatience at something that he wants to control, or is it actually something concrete that advisors in-the-know have reasoned to be an acceptable risk to take at this time? And I’m not talking about the yes men that he likes to surround himself with.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  30. He actually said…

    “There is tremendous hope as we look forward and we begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Stay focused and stay strong and my administration and myself will deliver for you as we have in the past”

    “We want to ease the guidelines and open things up to very large sections of our country as we near the end of our historic battle with the invisible enemy”

    WTeverylovinF

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  31. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/24/2020 @ 4:57 pm

    I was starting to buy into the theory that Cuomo is being prepped to step in for Biden. Except that Cuomo won’t really have an opportunity to do that. NY is going to take this hard and I don’t think it will be over in time for him to step into the nomination.

    Speaking of MIA, anyone seen RBG lately?

    frosty (f27e97)

  32. mr. donald trump, the president who has won honorable mention at the sheldon adelson annual drag show in las vegas for fifteen years in a row, promised to make america great

    the people who believed him are simple people

    they probably do not even know what a gaslight is because their parents still used kerosene lamps

    they go to the gun store and they see no ammo

    they go to the walmart and they see no toilet paper

    they go to the dewdrop inn and they see it’s closed

    and they say this is not great

    nk (1d9030)

  33. In Los Angeles county, a person under 18 years old died from coronavirus today. The numbers of infected continue to increase in the county:

    Los Angeles County reported 128 new cases on Tuesday, for a combined total of 662 cases. Eleven people have died of the coronavirus in the county.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  34. then, then, then

    they get a postcard in the mail where the first three words are PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS

    i got one too, so there

    nk (1d9030)

  35. TDS is an elixir for some… cleanses their minds… exonerates their bowels…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. I am worried about Sammy, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  37. so, mr. dave, you were only partly right

    mr. president trump wants you to call it the PRESIDENT TRUMP CORONAVIRUS

    not just the Trump virus

    nk (1d9030)

  38. Ah, yes. He’s a New Yorker in the hotspot. I hope he’s OK.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  39. Sammy posted at the end of the thread were we were discussing economic depression.

    Those of you who read that learned some things. Or had the opportunity.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  40. We’ll soon see how Covfefe-19 stacks up compared to this:

    Preliminary estimates (2018-2019) on Flu in US
    1. 35 Million cases (very few confirmed by test, almost all by symptoms)
    2. 490,000 hospitalizations
    3. 34,000 deaths

    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3hNJapUJls7fu_HpfZA2fkvHKIU7kqmJV984QEKZCpK6PcA92XVnTtmSc

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. we heard that song two months ago, mr. colonel

    and you know who is not singing along anymore?

    nobody

    nobody is singing along anymore

    nk (1d9030)

  42. I am worried about Sammy, too.

    He’s probably just writing a really, really long post analyzing the situation for us…

    (I hope he’s OK too!)

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. Speaking of MIA, anyone seen RBG lately?

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/24/2020 @ 5:09 pm

    Would it be a crime to conceal her death as long as possible? What would be the remedy to that? This would make an interesting comedy movie on Netflix with Adam Sandler. Constantly answering family emails, sending fake selfies, turning on the lights, keeping her in the freezer. And at the climax of the film Trump is reelected anyway so it was all for nothing, but the real RBG are the friends they made along the way…

    mr. president trump wants you to call it the PRESIDENT TRUMP CORONAVIRUS

    It’s the biggest pandemic ever!

    We’ll soon see how President Donald Trump Virus stacks up compared to this:

    Preliminary estimates (2018-2019) on Flu in US
    1. 35 Million cases (very few confirmed by test, almost all by symptoms)
    2. 490,000 hospitalizations
    3. 34,000 deaths

    Oh yeah, honest people are still really deep in suspense as to whether this is just the flu. It’s quite a mystery. Maybe Trump cured it in time?

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  44. Dustin… you missed the point. You are at least consistent.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  45. Remember, Col.

    Every cult eventually becomes a death cult.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  46. Ok, maybe the typical Trump supporter does still think that President Trump’s Coronavirus is a Democrat media hoax: https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2020/03/24/missouri-walmart-coronavirus-licker-charged-with-terrorist-threat

    nk (1d9030)

  47. This would make an interesting comedy movie on Netflix with Adam Sandler. Constantly answering family emails, sending fake selfies, turning on the lights, keeping her in the freezer.

    Maybe Jack Black, if Adam was busy? Remember Jack’s movie Bernie?

    felipe (023cc9)

  48. Trump on Feb. 24:

    The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

    With good reason, I don’t trust his judgment of situations, and therefore I don’t trust that he will make decisions based on anything but his faulty observations.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  49. Meanwhile playwright Terrance McNally has died from COVID19 in a Sarasota hospital. He was 81, with a chronic lung condition that may have arisen after he survived lung cancer.

    Kishnevi (49889c)

  50. And the walkback begins:

    Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar told Breitbart News exclusively that President Donald Trump in the coming days will work with his medical and scientific advisers to make a determination on how and when to reopen the country after wide-scale closure in the effort to stop the spread of the Chinese coronavirus.
    . . .

    “The president will look at the data with his top medical advisers, people like Dr. Debbie Birx, Tony Fauci, Robert Redfield, Steve Hahn at FDA, as well as I’m sure outside advisers, and will make a decision in the next week whether to continue the 15 days or whether there are appropriate modifications he would make to the rest of the country,” Azar told Breitbart News in a phone interview on Tuesday afternoon. “For instance, whether it’s to look, as Dr. Birx I believe said yesterday in the press conference, to look at maybe focusing in localized areas instead of common national recommendations.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/24/exclusive-hhs-secretary-alex-azar-lays-out-how-trump-will-defeat-coronavirus-invisible-enemy-reopen-america/

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  51. This is just the common cold. The flu is worse. Fake news. Also if you are over 65 please write in your Trump vote today and post date your ballot.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  52. Everybody got one if those postcards I was like wtf.

    Also Byron Allen’s racial discrimination suit against Comcast was decided by the Supreme Court in favor of Comcast. Dude has enough money, playing it smart since his Real People days.

    urbanleftbehind (c12a81)

  53. President Trump claimed today that there “would be suicides by the thousands”

    The fact that he’s suddenly thinking and talking about suicide all the time now could be a hopeful sign.

    We’ll see what happens.

    Dave (1bb933)

  54. I think he misunderstood the message he got from the Las Vegas casino owners: That if he kept the travel ban and lock-downs in place, it would be suicide.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. Harsh, Dave. But I hear you…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. People have had 5 years to getting acquainted with President Trump. But very few have a clue why he is so successful.

    This is such a sweet example of people so filled with hate, their brain is froze, and all rational thought non-existent, with anything concerning the President.

    I remember the campaign. Everyone was pointing out all the mistakes President Trump was making. His messaging was terrible. Never said the right things. Ignored all the important things. Terrible campaign, no organization, non-existent communication team. What a LOSER!
    But the no-nothing idiot negotiated the convention, to win the nomination, and then went on to craft a very sophisticated plan, to win the states needed to capture the most electoral votes. Despite the experts(that he should have listened to, always listen to the experts, right?) explaining how there was no path to victory for the President Trump.

    Now, President Trump tells the Nation he would like to set a goal of Easter, to start returning people to their jobs.

    Here we go again. Everyone explaining how President Trump has gotten it wrong.

    Except Trump did exactly what he needed to do. He gave the Nation a goal. Something to look forward to. An end game. Lots of people have been at least a week self isolating. All wondering where the end lies. Nobody knows. Nobody is saying. Its all vague. Couched in qualifiers. Maybes.

    Along comes President Trump. Talking hope. He just converted another 5% of the dems, and 10% of the independents to voting for Trump for President.

    You guys keep thinking President Trump is playing the game wrong, But you don’t even know what game is being played.

    This is exactly Why we have President Trump,(despite the experts). and exactly why President Trump is on his way to a 40 state electoral win, and the winner of the popular vote.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  57. I think he misunderstood the message he got from the Las Vegas casino owners: That if he kept the travel ban and lock-downs in place, it would be suicide.

    They should have Harry Reid send him a reminder to be careful around exercise equipment.

    Dave (1bb933)

  58. yes, mr. iowan2

    “Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?” — Mark Twain.

    nk (1d9030)

  59. Yes, the experts say Wuhancoronavirus is more infectious and has worse complications.

    But look at the last several years of CDC data. For example, what I posted and the 2017-2018 flu season in the CDC data. For the 2017-2018 flu season, there were approximately 810K hospitalizations for flu, and 61,000 deaths. You may’ve known that, but I sure as Hell was not aware of that

    The point is not to underestimate Wuhan, but rather to put it in perspective. Neither 446k/37k (2018-2019) or 810k/61k (2017-2018) did not cause any major upheaval, as far as I can remember.

    America remained open for business.

    All I meant in what I posted is that it will be interesting to see how this terrible virus will stack up (compare). Does that help?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  60. People have had 5 years to getting acquainted with President Trump. But very few have a clue why he is so successful.

    More successfully relieving Americans of life and property than any president in history. The biggest killer!

    We’re in a disaster. Trump already got his rally. In November ask yourself: are you better off than you were four years ago?

    To be clear, Biden is terrible too. That’s all Trump’s got going for him. If by some amazing sleight the democrats nominate someone competent… wow. But they probably won’t. If in this tragic time all you give a crap about is your glorious successful dear leader, it could be worse!

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  61. Or like my t-shirt says: If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. you’re right, mr. colonel

    the truth is that people are always looking for an excuse to hoard toilet paper

    i blame mr. whipple

    nk (1d9030)

  63. More successfully relieving Americans of life and property than any president in history. The biggest killer!

    A remarkable perspective.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. A joke.

    I know this is hard to believe, but there are jokes we can tell about people who aren’t democrats. Trump’s certainly made his mark on history!

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  65. 64… have you been tested for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, nk?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. I signed up for the USPS service where they send you scans of your mail before it arrives.

    Here’s what I received today.

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. People have had 5 years to getting acquainted with President Trump. But very few have a clue why he is so successful.

    I read several of his books, starting with The Art of the Deal several times at a young age, and recognized a strategy he was using over and over again during the primary. Once I did, I saw how he was moving the Overton Window in his direction through what I called “ratchetting” and predicted he would win the primary and general election both (it was actually a little closer than I thought it would be!). He was using other tactics too, such as intentional errors to get free publicity, where he’d get a detail or two wrong, and the media and his opponents would expel endless ink, electrons, and photons correcting him and calling him a liar, yet driving his essential point deep into the minds of the electorate.

    Plus, I heard some themes in some of his speeches that I had a background to understand that many Americans don’t, as we’re encouraged not to know certain things, that Trump used to great effect—whether for rhetorical reasons, genuine belief, or both.

    It’s like Bill Clinton, who made frequent use of the NLP of his friend Tony Robbins, but what Trump used rhetorically was far more powerful and substantive and, also, older.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  68. More successfully relieving Americans of life and property than any president in history. The biggest killer!

    I believe if you look carefully you’ll find an online community college course about a historical event called “The American Civil War.”

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  69. I read several of his books, starting with The Art of the Deal several times at a young age, and recognized a strategy he was using over and over again during the primary.

    You mean the book that he didn’t write?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  70. Someone I know got the same letter, Dave! It’s a hoot to read. Their letter mentioned joining some re-election campaign group and in return for a donation, the person would get a 2020 Membership Card and Task Force Label Pin “as a proud symborl of your Membership”. It’s supposed to be recognizable at VIP functions in Washington D.C…

    Speaking of poor Joe Biden: I sort of feel sorry for him in these cuts, and think someone did him a disservice telling him that surely he could become the next POTUS.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  71. Indeed, a very old technique. First use in human history is recorded in Genesis 3:1 through 5.

    Kishnevi (49889c)

  72. You mean the book that he didn’t write?

    I really don’t think who put the words in a certain order and with a certain flair, such as accredited co-author, is the point.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  73. Yes, Trump would LOVE to have the economy going by Easter.

    Notice the wording. He’d like to have it by Easter. He’d prefer to have it by Easter.

    Is he saying it will be by Easter? No.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  74. If only Hillary had been in charge, says David French, during this crisis. The birds would’ve sang, the heavens opened up and the country would’ve been brought together by our Big Sister in the White House. Thousands of lives could’ve been saved if ONLY we’d elected President Hillary. But don’t worry Never Trumpers who claim to be “Conservative” Joe “Trust me – I’m a moderate” Biden will be up for election in November.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  75. You only have to look at Pelosi Pork Bill to see what you will get when Biden is elected.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  76. @76 Starting at 3 AM sharp or whenever Hillary got out of her cups.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  77. Speaking of poor Joe Biden: I sort of feel sorry for him in these cuts, and think someone did him a disservice telling him that surely he could become the next POTUS.

    It was a binary choice, Dana. It was Biden or Bernie, and I could not vote for Bernie.

    nk (1d9030)

  78. You only have to look at Pelosi Pork Bill to see what you will get when Biden is elected.

    So the Senate bill is not pork, is not a giveaway to a bunch of businesses, didn’t have a $500B slush fund for the Munch?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  79. Plus, I heard some themes in some of his speeches that I had a background to understand that many Americans don’t, as we’re encouraged not to know certain things, that Trump used to great effect—whether for rhetorical reasons, genuine belief, or both.

    Gosh, that secret decoder ring must be soooooooo cool…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  80. Its a big huge country and lots of places are NOT the Bay Area, DC, LA, SF, or Chicago. i read that WV doesn’t have a single Chinese Flu death. Florida has NOT shut everything down. So, it makes sense to look at the data, and re-open those areas that can be re-opened and lockdown those areas like NYC and SF that still need to be locked down.

    We lose 40,000 people to flu every year. We can’t destroy the economy to save 5,000 people in 2020, when 3.5 million Americans die every year.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  81. Biden picks Klobachar as Veep, wins the election then resigns. I’m fine with that, she’d be fine.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  82. If only Hillary had been in charge, says David French, during this crisis.

    Put up a link, or just admit you’re a liar.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  83. Plus, I heard some themes in some of his speeches that I had a background to understand that many Americans don’t, as we’re encouraged not to know certain things, that Trump used to great effect—whether for rhetorical reasons, genuine belief, or both.

    Let’s just say he was using tried and tested powerful themes and rhetoric to go with that were somewhat out of the normal recent American traditions and lexicon.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  84. Put up a link, or just admit you’re a liar.

    Can you just ask for the link like a normal person without going straight to “liar,” for freak sakes?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  85. I really don’t think who put the words in a certain order and with a certain flair, such as accredited co-author, is the point.

    Naturally not. You’re a cultist.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  86. Granting, for the sake of argument, that Trump won the Presidency for any other reason than that his opponent was Hillary, what has he done with it other than leech off of America’s reserves? For just one example, this $6 trillion that he’s going to spend now, did he put it in the treasury? Or the other trillions he and Nancy Pelosi have spent over the last three years?

    nk (1d9030)

  87. lockdown those areas like NYC and SF that still need to be locked down.

    At the appropriate time, it will also be easier, more like a normal natural disaster, for the majority of the country to come to the aid of regions rather than for the whole country (and world) to somehow come to everywhere’s aid all at once.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  88. Can you just ask for the link like a normal person without going straight to “liar,” for freak sakes?

    Are you the hall monitor?

    You should know I hate a liar.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  89. Y

    ou only have to look at Pelosi Pork Bill to see what you will get when Biden is elected.

    I suggest anyone who thinks the D’s are “Moderates” should look at some of the non-spending items. But then Biden has already stated he’s against ANY restrictions on abortions, has no problem with legalized cocaine/heroin as pushed by Mayor Pete, is OK with getting rid of ICE and the immigration laws, favors election day registration and vote by mail, is against showing ID to vote, wants Amnesty for illegals, and massive increases in H-1B and legal immigration, want TPP. Will spend $500 billion to combat Climate Change, wants medicare expanded, etc. etc. etc.

    A lot of this stuff is in the 1400 page Pelosi bill.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  90. Naturally not. You’re a cultist.

    Ragspierre keeping it classy and content-rich.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  91. 85
    That is so. Know Nothingism and Hate Your Fellow Man have a long history to them. But that does not mean there is anything good about them.

    Kishnevi (49889c)

  92. Ragspierre keeping it classy and content-rich.

    You are SUCH a hypocrite…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  93. MAOA’s not allowed to provide links. Some unique happenstance prevents it.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  94. We lose 40,000 people to flu every year. We can’t destroy the economy to save 5,000 people in 2020, when 3.5 million Americans die every year.

    The current rate of death is doubling every 3 days. That’s 135k in two weeks. It’s not going to stay exponential forever as it will run out of people. CV is both more communicable and more deadly than the flu, double the infection rate, and a minimum of 6 times the mortality rate, up to 34X.

    So is it worth it for 3 million lives, 2M, 1M, 500k, what’s your number? Because the low end of the estimate is 500k, the worst case scenario is 11M. It’s not the flu. It’s not the flu. ITS NOT THE EFFING FLU

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  95. MAOA’s not allowed to provide links.

    I have a theory about what it might be and I’ll test it soonish. In any case, it was roccean who said David French said something and rather than just ask for proof that French said it, Ragspierre decided to immediately up the aggro to the nth degree.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  96. Things here have totally collapsed into ad hominems, and non-sequitors.

    A group of deep thinkers for sure.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  97. or just one example, this $6 trillion that he’s going to spend now, did he put it in the treasury? Or the other trillions he and Nancy Pelosi have spent over the last three years?

    Precisely WHO in DC has been in favor of cutting spending or raising Taxes? It certainly wasn’t Pelosi or Schumer. It wasn’t Ryan. And it wasn’t McConnell. Tell me about Bush and his fiscal responsibility. We got some sanity under Clinton but that’s only because of Gingrich and Social Security being in surplus. Trump is just one man. Every shutdown over Spending results in the “Moderates”, that the never trumpers love so well, joining the D’s and caving in.

    Mittens, if you’ve been paying attention, has 20 things he wants to achieve as Senator. And raising taxes isn’t one of them.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  98. rather than just ask for proof that French said it, Ragspierre decided to immediately up the aggro to the nth degree.

    Now, see, THAT is a lie.

    I gave him a choice. He lies like that all the time, and it deserves some push-back.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  99. At the appropriate time, it will also be easier, more like a normal natural disaster, for the majority of the country to come to the aid of regions rather than for the whole country (and world) to somehow come to everywhere’s aid all at once.

    I’ll try to simplify this for the short bus, this will be like a tiny invisible tornado, that kills you two weeks after it hits you, and spawns little tornados in the people who come into contact with you, and then…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  100. If anyone is having trouble posting a link, try to post it anyway. I happy to check and see if it got hung up in moderation or spam folder.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  101. It wasn’t Ryan. And it wasn’t McConnell. Tell me about Bush and his fiscal responsibility.

    Actually, Ryan and Bush have been fiscal hawks.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  102. I’ll try to simplify this for the short bus, this will be like a tiny invisible tornado, that kills you two weeks after it hits you, and spawns little tornados in the people who come into contact with you, and then…

    I said “at the appropriate time,” Colonel Klink. There was a reason for that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  103. If anyone is having trouble posting a link, try to post it anyway. I happy to check and see if it got hung up in moderation or spam folder.

    Thanks, Dana. Feel free to delete this comment (or leave it if you like). It’s step one to my troubleshooting.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  104. There will likely be no (visible) step two. My comment with a link to YouTube’s home page was ate up by the spam filter and, like every other comment I’ve ever made with a link (from more than one IP address!), never even made it to moderation.

    What I changed was the email address, using a real one instead of a dummy one. I thought there might be a WordPress step, like I’ve seen on other blogs, where you make a comment and then you get an email from WordPress automatically asking you to verify the email address and that’s why I couldn’t make comments with links. I do remember that, on other WordPress sites, if I didn’t verify the email address I couldn’t comment at all and every comment I made would go to moderation. Since that didn’t happen here, I never thought of it as the problem.

    However, I thought to try that tonight.

    Didn’t work as I didn’t even get an email from Pat’s WP installation to verify (I’m not saying it should send out an email: it may not be programmed to; that’s some kind of optional function, I think, anyway).

    So I’m all out of ideas since that was my one and only.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  105. 106 It’s the Z rays from your decoder ring…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  106. MAOA and Ragspierre,

    You two have a habit of getting personal. I’m sure you each think it’s justified and maybe only one of you is correct, but I don’t have time or energy to sort it out. Can you please stop personally insulting one another?

    The first one I see doing so after this request will be the one I hold primarily at fault at this point.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  107. I have no problem posting links, Dana. Whether through the link button or just copying and pasting the raw URL. I suspect that if “some people” have trouble posting links, it’s because the spam filter detects the Russian code and spoof IPs which it is programmed to detect in spam.

    nk (1d9030)

  108. It’s weird. I haven’t been able to make comments with links from home, on AT&T Wireless Internet (whether tethering or directly on my cell), at Starbucks’ wifi, at various fast food joints’ wifi, etc. Beats me.

    Sammy’s also in NYC and sends endless links galore, so it can’t just be an Askimet hates New York thing.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  109. Can you please stop personally insulting one another?

    I would, in all seriousness, find a lack of personal insults, defaulting to expressing opinions and making arguments instead, a joy. I have been guilty this, absolutely, and many a time, but all in all am trying, with mixed success, to turn a new leaf and follow your direction that you gave a month or so back on this.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  110. JoeyBee loves them ‘I can work across the aisle’ stories of his. And now he has committed to a woman VP.

    Nikki’s safely bailed out from Boeing an has landed in the ‘Catbird Seat.’ It’s her time. All she has do is catch the pass. If Trump snubs her for VEEP an keeps Pence, watch for the old, old man to toss a Hail Mary; a ‘unity ticket’ in troubled times: Biden/Haley 2020.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  111. Commenter Rip Murdock posted this on the previous thread, but it did not get the attention I think it deserves. A pharmaceutical company’s lobbyist on President Trump’s Coronavirus task force is profiteering for his client and prepared to have people die for it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/24/821035311/fda-grants-experimental-coronavirus-drug-benefits-for-rare-disease-treatments

    nk (1d9030)

  112. Every president gets a rally during hard times, as folks who don’t know what’s going on give the president the benefit of the doubt. It is a well understood phenomena.

    And a lot of what Trump is selling sounds good at first glance. Trump University sounded good to a lot of people. Those contracts to build things or invest in Trump’s ventures sounded good… sometimes too good to be true. But Trump promises to pay those debts, award those degrees, help you build a better life if you trust him.

    Trump promised us he’s got this virus figured out. Your loved ones will be ok.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  113. President Trump claimed today that there “would be [extra] suicides by the thousands” if Americans weren’t allowed to return to work:

    Probably.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  114. I wonder if the Orange Raccoon thinks about the kids who will be essentially orphaned when their parents or grandparents die because of his megalomania.

    As Bored Lawyer observed up thread, this isn’t rocket surgery, but the low character of this administration puts us all on a knife’s edge.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  115. President Trump claimed today that there “would be [extra] suicides by the thousands” if Americans weren’t allowed to return to work:

    Please provide the data to back that up with examples from 9/11, or the 2008 recession, please.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  116. “Hail Mary; a ‘unity ticket’ in troubled times: Biden/Haley 2020.“
    __ _

    That’s basically ‘Haley 2020’:

    https://twitter.com/Caesar63BC/status/1242642676631117826?s=20
    _

    Simulated Joe gonna be off the hook!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  117. Please provide the data to back that up with examples from 9/11, or the 2008 recession, please.

    The situations are different. To start with, suicides have historically gone down in war (as they give people a sense of purpose and pulling together against an enemy), which this isn’t really (it’s extremely socially isolating): this is disease, loneliness, and economic ruin.

    To continue, we’re facing a depression, not a recession. Suicide during the Great Depression is well known, so much so it’s somewhat of a trope. Unfortunately, it’s also factual. Start with:

    José A. Tapia Granados, Ana V. Diez Roux. Life and death during the Great Depression. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Oct 2009, 106 (41) 17290-17295.

    and look for, “gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression.”

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  118. Losing a loved family member is also a severe shock that often leads to suicide; they’re dying.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  119. @120 If you want more depressing information check out the cohort analysis of children born during the Spanish Flu. It will take some fun out of the jokes going around about quarantine babies or the quarantine generation.

    frosty (f27e97)

  120. The Great Depression had a silver lining: During that hard time, U.S. life expectancy increased by 6.2 years, researchers say.

    Life expectancy rose from 57.1 in 1929 to 63.3 years in 1932, according to the analysis by U-M researchers José A. Tapia Granados and Ana Diez Roux. The increase occurred for both men and women, and for whites and non-whites.

    “The finding is strong and counterintuitive,” says Tapia Granados, the lead author of the study and a researcher at the Institute for Social Research. “Most people assume that periods of high unemployment are harmful to health.”

    For the study, researchers used historical life expectancy and mortality data to examine associations between economic growth and population health for 1920 to 1940. They found that while population health generally improved during the four years of the Great Depression and during recessions in 1921 and 1938, mortality increased and life expectancy declined during periods of strong economic expansion, such as 1923, 1926, 1929, and 1936-1937.

    Boy, that T-rump sure has the facts nailed…

    LOL

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  121. During that hard time, U.S. life expectancy increased by 6.2 years, researchers say.

    Which exactly matches the study I just cited and quoted. The same is true for WW2 for which we have good data. The most likely common link, aside from medical advancements (and this has been studied extensively) is food deprivation: it has health benefits within limits.

    It’s also less likely that COVID-19, causing deaths directly and causing morbidity (lung damage, heart damage, kidney damage, gonad damage, even CNS damage), is likely to lead to a rise in life expectancy, don’t you think?

    Boy, that T-rump sure has the facts nailed…

    LOL

    I’m glad you’re finding something funy to you about this.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  122. I’m glad you’re finding something funy to you about this.

    Are you trying to troll here?

    It IS the study’s authors and work I quoted for a more honest vignette.

    But anyone with a working brain has to look at the farce we are living with the Thug in the Oval Office, and find the dark humor in it all.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  123. That’s interesting about suicide. I wonder how much suicide happened during the 1918 Pandemic, where I’ve heard the life expectancy in the US dropped 12 years from 1918 to 1919. More people died from the flu in 24 months than in 24 years of the HIV/AIDS epidemic.

    Another thing quite remarkable about the Spanish Flu was how fast it went away (albeit after two waves):

    “After the lethal second wave struck in late 1918, new cases dropped abruptly – almost to nothing after the peak in the second wave. In Philadelphia, for example, 4,597 people died in the week ending 16 October, but by 11 November, influenza had almost disappeared from the city.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  124. yes, yes, it’s true, there is no doubt about it

    democrats will definitely rally around the one person in mr. president trump’s coronavirus administration who made him look good

    like he was a competent president who did appoint the best people

    rally around is faint praise, actually

    they will absolutely swoon over ms. nikki

    nk (1d9030)

  125. It IS the study’s authors and work I quoted for a more honest vignette.

    It wasn’t a “more honest vignette.” I began my quote with, “gains in life expectancy. The only exception was […].”

    Nonetheless, I see your point that during economic downturns life span often goes up, because of food deprivation among other things. So, that could be a silving, or it might not be because of COVID-19s effects.

    In any case, Trump was focused on suicides specifically and also gave his opinion about what an economic downturn could mean to people’s lifespans. Possibly he is incorrect.

    I was focused on suicides specifically, and personally I find an environment where more people WANT TO DIE to be a very bad thing, even if you are right and people also live longer due to deprivation.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  126. *silving silver lining

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  127. But anyone with a working brain has to look at the farce we are living with the Thug in the Oval Office, and find the dark humor in it all.

    Who here doesn’t have a working brain, Ragspierre?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  128. “ Roy was one of at least 40,000 Americans who took their own lives that year and the next, the two-year span that suicide rate spiked to its highest recorded level ever: more than 150 per 1 million annually. They are forgotten people, mostly men, and mostly brushed out of existence by a generation preoccupied by World War II and the post-war boom.”

    Suicide and the Economy
    “We never spoke of them. Why would we?” Learning the the truth about my great-grandfather, and 40,000 Americans during the Great Depression

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/09/suicide-and-the-economy/279961/
    __

    harkin (b64479)

  129. I wonder how much suicide happened during the 1918 Pandemic, where I’ve heard the life expectancy in the US dropped 12 years from 1918 to 1919.

    No doubt it where you choose your start and end points determines what overall results you measure. But man, that’s grim.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  130. Clown nose on, clown nose off. Tiresome.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  131. Roy was one of at least 40,000 Americans who took their own lives that year and the next, the two-year span that suicide rate spiked to its highest recorded level ever: more than 150 per 1 million annually. They are forgotten people, mostly men, and mostly brushed out of existence by a generation preoccupied by World War II and the post-war boom.

    So I have some problems with Donald Trump and don’t love everything about him. And then sometimes I see elements of humanity I love, such as his compassion for his fellow Americans like Roy.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  132. Who here doesn’t have a working brain, Ragspierre?

    The question is answered above.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  133. “I’m glad you’re finding something funy to you about this.”

    I call foul, MAOA, and it’s the first instance I saw. Cut it out or I’ll take action.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  134. And a lot of what Trump is selling sounds good at first glance.

    No, It doesn’t.

    And when you get the likes of a $100,000-a-month-coccine-addicted-banned-for-life-from-Wall-St.,-supply-side-club-for-growth-ex-FBN-Snowman Kudlow tooting lines out to America and chucklehead Arthur Laffer gets trotted out on Fox literally peddling ‘Trumponomics’ – you know the tow line was cut and the strawberries have hit the fan.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. The story of Roy is certainly interesting, but the author offers nothing to support her numbers. Some notes would have been in order.

    If you read the story, it is readily apparent that the economy may have had little or nothing to do with his suicide. He was swirling around the drain for years, and his drinking may have been the root problem. He lost a law practice and a wife, but we’re never told why. Was it the booze or an ethics complaint?

    So T-rump may “feel compassion for Roy”. But that’s magic thinking. He doesn’t know Roy.

    Reality is that there are truly innocent Americans that Duh Donald could effectively kill if he acts true to his nature. Someone needs to intercede, and soon.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  136. No, It doesn’t.

    And when you get the likes of a $100,000-a-month-coccine-addicted-banned-for-life-from-Wall-St.,-supply-side-club-for-growth-ex-FBN-Snowman Kudlow tooting lines out to America and chucklehead Arthur Laffer gets trotted out on Fox literally peddling ‘Trumponomics’ – you know the tow line was cut and the strawberries have hit the fan.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/24/2020 @ 9:40 pm

    I don’t have any strawberries and I always do because they are low carb candy. Can’t go to the store because the line outside it is going around the block.

    Hopefully one day I tell my grandkids about this and they fall asleep with boredom.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  137. Tell me about Bush and his fiscal responsibility.

    OK. He got the deficit down to 1.1% of GDP, while fighting and winning two wars.

    Under Trump it has gone from 3.2% to 4.9% this year, according to (pre-germ) estimates on the White House website.

    Dave (1bb933)

  138. @139. LOL yeah, like the ‘Depression Leftovers’ we’d hear about every holiday- tales about baked bean sandwiches and peanut butter and bacon sandwiches. Inexpensive meals in the Depression. My grandmother loved both, especially he BB sandwiches and still ate them into the ’80s. PB & bacon is still a favorite w/me. Hard to believe these were cheap, desperation dinners at one time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  139. Trump sees nothing wrong with this:

    Answering the question of who would provide accountability for the unrestricted distribution of half-a-trillion dollars, Trump’s response was even less promising: “I’ll be the oversight. I’ll be the oversight.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  140. Oh he’s going to take responsibility for the cash? How about that.

    I read a story about a nurse who died suddenly from COVID… her 4 year old at home at the time. I realized we’ll probably have an unusually high number of elderly who have sudden breathing problems and die. Because of the lockdown, a lot of them won’t be discovered for a while. If we went from 17 to 800 deaths in 2.5 weeks, it doesn’t really matter how you guess about the lack of tests affecting lethality… it’s going to be awful.

    Apparently there’s one doctor, Vladimir Zelenko, who claimed 90% of his community was infected and got a lot of flack for this. Then he claimed he cured 100% of his COVID cases with that drug Trump is talking about. One commenter on WND (LOL) even said Trump should receive the Nobel prize in medicine. Another commenter says she is thinking of taking the medication just to prevent catching COVID 19. Lots of others agreeing this is a good idea, with anyone pointing out how stupid this is called “fear monger.”

    If you question Trump, if you take this illness seriously, if you aren’t an idiot, you’re a fear monger hoping everyone dies because you love Nancy Pelosi. These guys have totally insulated themselves from any possibility that the President screwed up when he blew this virus off for a couple of months.

    By November, there will be ‘proof’ that the democratic nominee was involved in a conspiracy to spread this disease.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  141. So sad to see Jill Biden let her husband decay in front of America. She must have issues as well. She probably wants to be the man behind the curtain. Reminds me of how bad my grandma was with her alzheimer’s disease. Sad.

    mg (8cbc69)

  142. Answering the question of who would provide accountability for the unrestricted distribution of half-a-trillion dollars, Trump’s response was even less promising: “I’ll be the oversight. I’ll be the oversight.”

    And don’t forget, when asked a day or two before if his own hotels and resorts would be applying for relief money from the slush fund, he went into a sob story about how much money he could have made these past four years if he hadn’t run for president, and ended his answer with the ever-popular “We’ll see what happens.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  143. I fear the democrat party more than the china flu.
    Pelosi has a fever that could kill all of us.

    mg (8cbc69)

  144. The Governor of Nevada, has banned by executive order, the use of anti-malarial drugs to treat corona virus symptoms.

    The Democrats believe in their soul that you have to listen to the experts.

    In direct conflict with the Food and Drug Administration, which has approved Doctors, using the Doctors best judgement, to prescribe anti-malarial drugs.

    What is the Governors motivation, and why is the expertise of the FDA being contradicted. Simple, a thumb in the eye of President Trump. Sick and needy patients, Democrats are happy to abuse, for cheap rhetorical flourish.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  145. The Governor of Nevada, has banned by executive order, the use of anti-malarial drugs to treat corona virus symptoms.

    Is the Governor a doctor? A medical expert? Shouldn’t he be leaving that decision to the doctors on the ground who are treating the disease?

    I’d impeach/recall him/her over this.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  146. Hopefully when Dr. Jill Biden becomes First Lady she can double as Surgeon General and stop the virus in its tracks.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  147. 148. No the Governor is not a Doctor. The States Chief medical officer is a Doctor, but lacks credentials to practice in the State of Nevada.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  148. From the NY post: His order also limits a prescription of the medicines — which are also used to treat illnesses like lupus and arthritis — to a 30-day supply to ensure it’s available for “legitimate medical purposes” and so people don’t stockpile the drug.

    I agree he should leave what to prescribe to doctors. But it looks like what’s trying to do is keep the supply available for patients that we know will benefit from it.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  149. Iowan2, looks like his motivation is pretty clear.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  150. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/25/2020 @ 12:52 am

    I don’t think I’d use comments on WND as a barometer of Trump supporters or the US in general. Is this where you get the open ended general statements you have made in other comments like

    If you question Trump, if you take this illness seriously, if you aren’t an idiot, you’re a fear monger hoping everyone dies …

    It seems like you’re talking about WND comments here because of the prior and subsequent references but you don’t always do that. Can I assume when you’re saying all Trumpers do X you really mean some random people/bots/chicoms/trolls on WND do X?

    frosty (f27e97)

  151. “Dr.” Jill Biden is a psychologist with a Ph.D.

    (I can’t stand Ph.D.’s who refer to themselves as “Doctor”…)

    Dave (1bb933)

  152. UPDATE: LA County Sheriff’s Plan to Close Gun Stores as “Nonessential” Halted

    “ As we reported Tuesday afternoon, Monday night Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva declared that gun stores were considered “nonessential” businesses, ordered them closed, and told a Fox 11 Los Angeles reporter that he would be sending deputies to the gun stores, one by one, to order them closed.

    Justifiably, civil rights advocates were alarmed, saying the move was unconstitutional, and encouraging owners to resist the order.

    Now, Sheriff Villanueva tells Fox LA’s Bill Melguin that “enforcement efforts to close gun stores have been suspended after county counsel intervened w/a legal opinion that gun stores can be considered an essential business under the Governor’s statewide order. Tells me it’s all in limbo now.”

    https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2020/03/24/update-la-county-sheriffs-plan-to-close-gun-stores-as-nonessential-halted/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  153. “ The Governor of Nevada, has banned by executive order, the use of anti-malarial drugs to treat corona virus symptoms.”

    If the guy in AZ who died from drinking aquarium cleaner ended up being a homicide victim I wouldn’t be surprised.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  154. In laboratory tests, a 70% solution of alcohol has been proven to kill President Trump’s Coronavirus. Just bring your blood alcohol levels up to 70%.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. 70% by volume.

    nk (1d9030)

  156. …for the nation, patriot!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  157. New York Daily News
    @NYDailyNews

    ALBANY — Doctors and medical professionals think forcing New Yorkers to kick smoking will help battle coronavirus.

    They’re urging Gov. Cuomo to issue an executive order banning the sale of all tobacco products, citing a study.
    __ _

    This probably won’t go down well with smokers already stressed from complying with the stay home/shelter in place orders.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  158. 151, 152. to a 30-day supply to ensure it’s available for “legitimate medical purposes”

    Medical persons have been prioritizing medication for centuries. We have vast bureaucracies in place to ration medicine, if that is what needed. Doctors themselves are good at doing their job. But no, you go ahead and defend the indefeasible. That pretty much eliminates you from the pool people with the ability to criticize President Trump.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  159. This probably won’t go down well with smokers already stressed from complying with the stay home/shelter in place orders.

    Like prohibition, it would likely also generate a huge, criminal black market and people smuggling from neighboring states. Not a good idea.

    Dave (1bb933)

  160. Like prohibition, it would likely also generate a huge, criminal black market and people smuggling from neighboring states.

    It already exists. That’s why Eric Garner was strangled to death. And the reason is cigarette taxes. Bootleggers buy cigarettes in bulk at one-fourth the New York City retail price from low-tax or tax-free states and resell them at half the NYC price. The “black” market buys them by the pack or as loosies from people like Eric Garner, the “white” market buys them by the carton at gas stations, tobacco shops, and convenience stores.

    Actually, cigarette tax evasion is a very big worldwide industry with diversion of whole shipping containers directly from the cigarette factories.

    nk (1d9030)

  161. Whole shiploads.

    nk (1d9030)

  162. 151, 152. to a 30-day supply to ensure it’s available for “legitimate medical purposes”

    Medical persons have been prioritizing medication for centuries. We have vast bureaucracies in place to ration medicine, if that is what needed. Doctors themselves are good at doing their job. But no, you go ahead and defend the indefeasible. That pretty much eliminates you from the pool people with the ability to criticize President Trump.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/25/2020 @ 6:41 am

    Please don’t misrepresent what I said.

    I’ll repeat what I wrote in comment 151 and bold the portion you seem to have missed.

    I agree he should leave what to prescribe to doctors. But it looks like what’s trying to do is keep the supply available for patients that we know will benefit from it.

    You asked what his motivation was. I provided what an answer based on available information and made clear I didn’t agree with it. Try to remember that not everything is about Trump.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  163. But no, you go ahead and defend the indefeasible. That pretty much eliminates you from the pool people with the ability to criticize President Trump.

    Me personally, I’m always prepared to defend the indefeasible.

    But, asking for a friend here, are YOU the person we go to for our Able To Criticize T-rump passes? Cuz’ I’ve wondered about that for the longest.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  164. Ragspierre, I’ve had decent history talking with Iowan2 in the past when we disagree. I don’t think your sarcasm is going to add anything in this instance. Please go away.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  165. Bully for you! Carry on.

    And no.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  166. Trolls gotta Troll.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  167. We have $2 Trillion more in debt but, according to the Daily Mail, the Trump and Kushner family businesses won’t get any of it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  168. They do, Time123.

    DRJ (15874d)

  169. Fish gotta swim; birds gotta fly.

    Fools gotta fool ’til the day they die!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  170. Fools can’t help it. Trolls can.

    DRJ (15874d)

  171. “Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer wrote in a Dear Colleague letter early Wednesday morning that the new bill includes a provision to ‘prohibit businesses controlled by the President, Vice President, Members of Congress, and heads of Executive Departments from receiving loans or investments from Treasury programs.'”

    DRJ (15874d)

  172. When did you have your sense of humor removed, DRJ?

    And define your use of “troll” for me, because your use seems both inapposite and just name-calling.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  173. A troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages. This describes many of your comments in general and the one above specifically.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  174. A troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.

    Ah, than I know you are full of it, Time123. I posted a light little commentary on the misuse of “indefeasible”. Being a word-smith, I love word-play.

    I also tweaked Iowan2 on the officious remark he/she/it made on who may criticize T-rump.

    It required NONE of the energy you and DRJ have expended on it. It was NOT “trolling”, and you should have just moved on.

    BTW, you and Iowan2 should somehow manage to conduct a private correspondence. You don’t have that expectation here.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  175. “Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer wrote in a Dear Colleague letter early Wednesday morning that the new bill includes a provision to ‘prohibit businesses controlled by the President, Vice President, Members of Congress, and heads of Executive Departments from receiving loans or investments from Treasury programs.’”

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/25/2020 @ 7:38 am

    Anyone know how this will be managed and enforced? If someone does so anyway is it a civil or a criminal offence? What’s does ‘controlled’ mean and how will it be established? If a business is wholey owned but managed trough a blind trust does it count? Like most of this stuff the devil is in the details.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  176. Not a good start for a Wednesday!

    They said a mask and gloves were enough to wear to the grocery store… they LIED… everyone else had clothes on.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  177. I didn’t object to your participation. Just that it added nothing.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  178. CH that’s a good one!!

    Time123 (dba73f)

  179. I don’t know, Time123. I can see Trump saying his sons control his businesses and Kushner claiming his father/family control his. It depends on how they worded it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. IMO your comments are often sarcastic and designed to hurt, not help the discussion. See, for example, “Gosh, that secret decoder ring must be soooooooo cool…!!!” and “You don’t know spit about dog spit” and this one. Plus you freely call people liars. Those are just in the past two days. I can find more if you want.

    You have a lot to offer but you seem mad at everyone.

    DRJ (15874d)

  181. That is funny, Colonel. Thank you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  182. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/25/2020 @ 8:01 am

    HA! Good one. I’m using it – here’s your nickle!

    felipe (023cc9)

  183. Ragspierre, a simple stroll up and down the thread finds you insulting people as liars and cultists and so forth. Taking on DRJ is definitely a losing move. I appreciate having your point of view but I don’t like personal attacks in my comments and I want it to stop. If you can’t (and this goes for others engaged in personal attacks) I will have no choice but to moderate you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  184. You are articulate, knowledgeable, and have a keen intellect. You have a lot to add to the conversation. Please focus on that instead of trying to tear down people who challenge your ideas.

    DRJ (15874d)

  185. While I realize Ron Unz may not be everyone here’s cup of tea, he presents a sobering analysis (and, so far as I can tell, unique model, which you’ll have to read in the full piece since I don’t want to just rip all of it off) of just how bad the situation is:

    The problem is that any program of massive, widespread testing is completely impossible given our lack of sufficient testing resources. Meanwhile, the Coronavirus has a substantial latency period during which victims experience no symptoms, and even afterward many cases are quite mild or even completely asymptomatic, leaving the infected unaware of their condition. So at present, testing has been confined to just a tiny sliver of the population, ensuring that the reported numbers of those infected represents a severe undercount. But we are left to guess just how severe.

    However, the Coronavirus death statistics are certainly far more solid and reliable, and I soon noticed a simple and easy means of reasonably estimating Coronavirus infections from Coronavirus deaths. But although the methodology seemed obvious to me, after I described it on a comment-thread yesterday, I encountered quite a bit of initial confusion and disagreement, suggesting that the idea was not nearly as obvious as I had assumed. So on the off-chance that some people might be unfamiliar with the method, I’ve decided to outline it below.

    […]

    Let’s apply this methodology to a real-life situation. On 3/23/20, New York reported 53 new Coronavirus deaths, bringing the total to 210. This suggests that the true number of new infections that day may have been over 50,000, raising the total infected to more than 200,000. These estimates are eight to ten times larger than the officially-reported Coronavirus totals for New York, namely 4,750 and 25,665.

    […]

    Finally, this analysis may carry an important policy implication. Suppose that our best and most accurate means of estimating infections is indeed based upon this methodology. We would therefore be using the current death rate to back into the infection rate that that occurred three weeks earlier, so that any analysis of the impact of government policies would necessarily be lagged by three weeks.

    Under these circumstances, it would be extremely inadvisable for President Trump or other government officials to rescind any of their lockdown or quarantine decisions until at least three weeks had gone by and the impact of these policies upon the rate of infection became fully apparent.

    Eexcerpted from “Correctly Estimating Coronavirus Infections” posted today March 25th at The Unz Review.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  186. 190. We don’t need “massive, widespread testing” to set policy reasonably. The Diamond Princess statistics match those of an artificially (but not completely) attenuated virus which probably escaped a Chinese lab accidentally. This would also account for China’s and South Korea’s *lack* of panic, and the faulty data coming from Italy.

    Gryph (08c844)

  187. @185

    I don’t know, Time123. I can see Trump saying his sons control his businesses and Kushner claiming his father/family control his. It depends on how they worded it.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/25/2020 @ 8:05 am

    I’m not so sure this even legal, but it is a restriction most folks would support. I think I support it too, but do wonder how enforceable this is…

    Sidebar: why should Trump’s properties be treated any different than Mariott/Hyatt/Hilton’s properties? Sure, we need oversight to ensure that Trump properties don’t get preferential treatement unlike Mariott/Hyatt/Hilton properties. I’m using Trump’s properties as an example, but the question extends to any properties held by the restrictions in this legislation.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  188. Here is a link for MAOA’s excerpt from the Unz Review. I haven’t read it but found it to offer a link. We really need to help you learn to link, MAOA. You are the only one who has this problem.

    DRJ (15874d)

  189. I identify lies and liars. That seems inexplicably taboo to some people. It seems a virtue that more people should practice to me.

    Put the “decoder” snark in context, dude.

    Again, context is your friend wrt the “spit about dog spit” snip you high-graded. I’d posted a bland note on how all-risk insurance could help distressed businesses (something nobody else had even broached). Kevin took it on himself to contradict the notion, using completely unsupported bald allegations. You may have noticed he does this regularly. I know what I’m talking about generally. I find it something of an affront for a boob to just attack a plain old note about something neutral, and I made it a point to say that Kevin does NOT know what he was talking about.

    I am a mordant commenter. I also am a contrarian and critical thinker. Sarcasm has been a valuable and, indeed, essential tool of rhetoric since ancient time. If my use of it offends you, sue me. Or you can get me banned, I have no doubt.

    And I can’t help but reflect that all this strum und drang this morning resulted from a passing bit of humor and…yes…sarcasm(!).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  190. whembly,

    We treat political leaders different. They have to file financial disclosures that other people don’t. My guess is they also have restrictions on investing in businesses/industries they directly oversee. And this is a limit only on these funds, not all government programs.

    DRJ (15874d)

  191. If I were President and I had left us this unprepared, I’d task the experts with telling me the earliest possible date they can estimate to end social distancing in each area of the country in order to get businesses up and running again. Then I’d move hell and Earth to get there.

    This President. He just pulls a date out of his .

    noel (4d3313)

  192. We really need to help you learn to link, MAOA. You are the only one who has this problem.

    I’ve hand-coded websites, DRJ (only a couple, but I get the gist), and managed my own WP blogs in the past; I was one of the ones who helped Dana find the source of the moderation problem with Askimet. I even tried troubleshooting not being able to post links last night, by making sure my email address is a real one so if WP needs a verification step where I’m sent an email by Pat’s install and have to click on it, I can do so.

    Alas, I didn’t get one and it didn’t work (I may not have been supposed to get one: it’s an optional step some WP site masters enable). I know how to post links, but simply can’t here. And that’s from my laptop and cell, at home and on my AT&T Wireless plan, from Starbucks to DQ WIFI, just can’t. I am nonplussed.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  193. And no, I don’t even use a VPN.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  194. 192. Now before Raggy pops up to accuse me of being a “liar,” let me stipulate that I am not against further testing. The best way to determine policy going forward is to engage in serological testing for antibodies so we can tell just what percentage of people are already immune, and how many more must be to clear the R0 threshold. To my knowledge, there are some countries engaging in such testing but the United States is not — yet. We all should be.

    Gryph (08c844)

  195. I have no interest in banning you, Ragspierre. Don’t you want people to listen to your input? Isn’t that the point of coming here? We aren’t listening to you because of how you treat people.

    Sarcasm can indeed be really funny, but IMO you aren’t trying to entertain anyone but yourself.

    DRJ (15874d)

  196. 201. Speak for yourself, DRJ. I wouldn’t shed a single tear to see him go. YMMV, as always.

    Gryph (08c844)

  197. I identify lies and liars.

    Well, with all due respect, maybe stop doing that for a while, using those words, and just point out the discrepancy with evidence and let people draw what you consider to be the appropriate conclusion. You’re a lawyer and should be trained to this!

    I’m no lawyer, but I subscribe to Leonard French, among others’, YouTube channels, and when he reads briefs by artful lawyers calling out the other side’s honesty, using soft language and biting references, it’s a hoot. Entertain us! Show us your skill. Show me, heck. Let me have it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  198. Ok, MAOA, but the common denominator seems to be you. Maybe your settings?

    Is anyone else unable to post links? Let’s figure this out.

    DRJ (15874d)

  199. Now before Raggy pops up to accuse me of being a “liar,”

    Moana, my moniker is “Ragspierre”. If you want me to call you something besides Moana, you first.

    Please link to a post where I’ve accused you of lying. In context.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  200. Heh! I just got a text with a URL to a petition to “Tell Trump to CUT RED TAPE (sic) and make hydroxychloroquine available to you and your patients”.

    Russians or Chinese? Either is likely to leave out the article “THE”. And it’s not anything to do with President Trump’s Coronavirus or hydroxychloroquine, either. That’s just phishing bait to check whether my number should stay on their robocall lists for advertisements and other scams.

    nk (1d9030)

  201. “Easter is a very special day for me.” There are two people that would make me laugh out loud if that quote were attributed to them. Bill Maher is the other one. I was laughing yesterday.

    noel (4d3313)

  202. Maybe your settings?

    I don’t really have any settings. The problem occurs on multiple browsers, multiple operating systems (Win 10, various generations of Android), multiple devices, different IP addresses, locations, etc. I even changed my username to something else just to see if some lefty programmed Askimet to trash “Ordered” or “Make America” or something, but no dice.

    So far as I know, I have no unique settings. I can leave links everywhere else one can leave links.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  203. MAOA,

    Re your Unz link, he argues for at least 3 more weeks of isolation. He bases that in part on “The infection doubling period – probably 3-6 days.” It may be longer, e.g., 9, 12 or even 21 days. If so, the growth rate is not linear but exponential, and thus the time increases dramatically.

    I appreciate these efforts to quantify things. It is valuable and part of science, but another part of science is we really don’t know what the truth is. That is why we have to keep open minds about the pros and cons in events like this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  204. 196

    whembly,

    We treat political leaders different. They have to file financial disclosures that other people don’t. My guess is they also have restrictions on investing in businesses/industries they directly oversee. And this is a limit only on these funds, not all government programs.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/25/2020 @ 8:40 am

    Yeah, I totally get that.

    My concern is hypothetically this (again using Trump properties as example): The shutdown extends quite further such that non-Trump hotel properties had to use these grant/stimulous programs to keep their folks employed. Yet, the Trump properties companies cannot use these programs and would be forced to cut hours/furlough staff or even lay offs.

    I guess my point is this: At some point we need to recognize that much of our political critters own businesses employing numerous workers. Yes, ensure with oversight that these political critters don’t abuse their position at the benefit of their own companies, but are we sure we’re okay with barring access to programs like these JUST because they’re elected officials? Or, are we willing to accept the tradeoff that these companies would be risked even move than their competitors and by extension the worker bees?

    I know these are trying times and maybe I’m needlessly making this a mountain out of an anthill here… but, I can’t help but wonder this.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  205. Sarcasm can indeed be really funny, but IMO you aren’t trying to entertain anyone but yourself.

    Well, I see the root problem. I am not primarily trying to be funny or entertain. You are entitled to your mistaken opinion.

    OTOH, sometimes a joke is just a joke.

    Cripes…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  206. A tale to tell… https://youtu.be/ia0bfWbOLjY

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  207. Ok, MAOA, but the common denominator seems to be you. Maybe your settings?

    Is anyone else unable to post links? Let’s figure this out.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/25/2020 @ 8:48 am

    Here’s my test.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  208. Well done, whembly! Here is my test link contribution.

    DRJ (15874d)

  209. Well, I see the root problem. I am not primarily trying to be funny or entertain.

    So you are trying to taunt or be mean? Sounds like something Trump would do.

    DRJ (15874d)

  210. “ I am a mordant commenter. I also am a contrarian and critical thinker. Sarcasm has been a valuable and, indeed, essential tool of rhetoric since ancient time. If my use of it offends you, sue me. Or you can get me banned, I have no doubt.

    And I can’t help but reflect that all this strum und drang this morning resulted from a passing bit of humor and…yes…sarcasm(!)”

    You’ve got one other thing going for you as regards this site.

    harkin (b64479)

  211. For the heck of it, I opened up a different browser, cleared all the cookies again, and tried to post a link to YouTube. Nope. Nada.

    I’m not expecting you to solve this. Unliking the Askimet issue, this seems random and weird and I haven’t the slightest clue what causes it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  212. I think it is important, too, whembly, but we have methods to deal with this — blind trusts or divestments. I feel sure his properties would not be excluded if he had chosen to use a blind trust, but he refused. This is the result. This is Congress exercising its power to respond to his choice.

    He will probably sue about this. He may win under Equal Protection arguments but I don’t think it is clear he will.

    DRJ (15874d)

  213. The more I look at that video of Biden from yesterday acting like a senior lost at the supermarket, the more I feel Hillary is going to find a way to glom onto the ticket.

    If they won the general, she’d be president faster than John Tyler.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  214. harkin, I would try to reason with you the same, and you know how many months I have been pleading with Munroe to stop being needlessly sarcastic. This isn’t about politics. Sarcasm is very funny in real life but doing it incessantly online it is designed to hurt, not enlighten.

    DRJ (15874d)

  215. Senor Patterico,

    I am distressed that I have caused you concern and additional work. I am MORE distressed by being confused (a thing I hate above all else).

    Does a cult of personality exist around the current POTUS?

    Do people here tell lies?

    When someone self-identifies as a cult member, is it the purpose of anyone recognizing that to insult them?

    When someone lies, is it wrong to identify that as a lie?

    I don’t ask or expect you to respond. I’ve imposed on your time enough. Thank you.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  216. You can email your questions to Patterico. His email is in the sidebar.

    DRJ (15874d)

  217. So you are trying to taunt or be mean? Sounds like something Trump would do.

    Erm…no. That’s one of those irrational binaries we see too much of.

    And you don’t need to be nasty.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  218. You can email your questions to Patterico. His email is in the sidebar.

    Thanks. I know how to email the host. He addressed me in the comments. I reciprocated.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  219. Are you trying to educate? Feel free to explain it to me. I may not be bright but I listen and can learn if you will tell me what you think I need to know.

    DRJ (15874d)

  220. Trump has been the using the Presidency as a cash cow to support his lifestyle and his failing businesses since he announced his candidacy in 2015. There is no way he is not going to find a way to “wet his beak” in this instance, and neither are the other excluded persons. Those people know how to steal the silver fillings from your teeth while you’re circling the Earth in a space capsule.

    nk (1d9030)

  221. When someone self-identifies as a cult member, is it the purpose of anyone recognizing that to insult them?

    I hope this comment of mine will be viewed as substantive rather than putting down Ragspierre for the sake of doing so.

    However, I have long disputed Ragspierre’s characterization of me as a “T-rump cultist” and similar and have never once “self-identified” as a “cultist.” Yet on this thread, Ragspierre calls me a cultist. And then Ragspierre makes an issue about lying specifically.

    I would like to ask Ragspierre to consider all of the above and if he can point to where I’ve self-identified as a cultist, I will apologize profusely to him. However, if he can’t, I think he owes me an apology for saying I “self-identify as a cultist” and I think he owes you all an apology for being a little bit misleading there, if you see what I mean.

    He calls people cultists because that’s his opinion; we can all agree that few people self-identify as cultists, can’t we?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  222. “ harkin, I would try to reason with you the same, and you know how many months I have been pleading with Munroe to stop being needlessly sarcastic. This isn’t about politics. Sarcasm is very funny in real life but doing it incessantly online it is designed to hurt, not enlighten.”
    _

    I feel for any site’s comment moderators, I would not wish it on anyone and give all major props for the time and efforts they put in.

    As long as site commenting discipline is policed as equal as possible without regard to ‘which side’ someone is on, it’s all good. Same goes for humor and sarcasm which of course is reacted to differently based on who’s on the receiving end.

    That was said with no sarcasm whatever.

    My two cents: the petty bickering, name-calling and general thread-derailing of these two suggests they need to get their own room for their squabbles.

    But that’s just me.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  223. I think it is important, too, whembly, but we have methods to deal with this — blind trusts or divestments. I feel sure his properties would not be excluded if he had chosen to use a blind trust, but he refused. This is the result. This is Congress exercising its power to respond to his choice.

    He will probably sue about this. He may win under Equal Protection arguments but I don’t think it is clear he will.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/25/2020 @ 9:11 am

    This.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  224. Why is anyone here? That isn’t a diversion. It’s an answer. A big, global answer.

    Hold that thought. I’m going outside to smoke a cigar and frighten small dogs. (That last was humor.)

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  225. I gave them their own room, Mr. harkin. They’re in my blocking script, along with a couple of others. The only way I know about them is when you other folks engage them. And I am certainly not going to block DRJ. Or you for that matter, you still have credit with me just for re-introducing me to Mr. Belvidere.

    nk (1d9030)

  226. He calls people cultists because that’s his opinion; we can all agree that few people self-identify as cultists, can’t we?

    Cigar in a minute…

    One of my first exchanges with you was during the SOTUS. You were trolling like it was your job, AND you made it clear that you ARE a T-rump cultist. You attributed the remarks of the little girl he used as a prop to him, even after I challenged you.

    Of COURSE I rely on my opinion. Juries do it every day! Cops do it as part of their duty. You can’t live without doing it.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  227. I’m in!

    felipe (023cc9)

  228. That’s a great link, felipe.

    nk (1d9030)

  229. “ I gave them their own room, Mr. harkin. They’re in my blocking script, along with a couple of others. The only way I know about them is when you other folks engage them.”

    I don’t block anybody on this site. The discourse is almost always at a level above most of my other regular boards where blocking is necessary.

    “And I am certainly not going to block DRJ”

    If you read anything I said that you feel implied blocking DRJ I’m clueless.

    “Or you for that matter, you still have credit with me just for re-introducing me to Mr. Belvidere.”

    I’m old and senile, I have no idea when I referenced Belvedere, but I’m betting it was Clifton Webb and not that extra-large Brit.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  230. once again people are trying to reason with trolls.

    It never works, It never has worked, and it never will work.

    But keep on trying.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  231. I don’t know why, after 5 years of experiencing Presidents ability to directly communicate with the people, this some how is unusual. It’s like political experts are blinded by their prejudices.

    Or maybe it’s because some people pay attention to the content of his “direct communication,” which is typically filled with abundant lies and fables, self-contradiction, absurd boasting, egregious self-absorption, peevish nastiness to those who don’t give him the adulation he expects, and lots of ignorant stupidity and irrationality.

    I’m not a “political expert” or an “elite” or a Democrat partisan. But I believe that the way Trump speaks actually tells us a lot about who he is. That rational principle is shoved aside by those who’ve been saying “Don’t pay attention to what he says; just watch what he does.” Which by the way is contrary to the notion that he “directly communicates” with the people in a truly meaningful way (beyond feeding their resentments).

    As for “what he does,” or doesn’t: here’s a timeline showing how he ignored warnings and dragged his feet in responding to COVID-19. Trump-worshipers would probably snort that’s only one of those “Trump-haters” suffering from TDS. And they would brush aside the fact that Trump was openly downplaying the threat until recently, because defending Donald Trump is what they care about most.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  232. It seems like you’re talking about WND comments here because of the prior and subsequent references but you don’t always do that. Can I assume when you’re saying all Trumpers do X you really mean some random people/bots/chicoms/trolls on WND do X?

    frosty (f27e97) — 3/25/2020 @ 5:59 am

    This is the only time I’ve checked that site in years (I got there via a link). I agree there are some really dishonest folks posing to rile others up with insane views. Unfortunately I also think there are a lot of those ‘deplorable’ folks in this country. Trump got popular bashing a black president as ‘probably from Kenya’. I really do consider actual support for Trump or promoting his message to be a very negative thing at this point. I distinguish this from someone who can’t support anybody and settles for Trump… but even that is very hard to accept.

    Obviously the characterization of my remarks as “all Trumpers do X” is not reasonable or something I actually said, though I understand that the really motivated Trump supporters (especially those who want to pose as objective and neutral) will be worried they are being lumped in. To be sure, I do lump those guys in. They are trying to con everybody. Where do you think they learned to do that?

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  233. I did mean the Clifton Webb movie (darn homophones!), and I acknowledge that you did not suggest, imply or otherwise indicate in any manner that I should also block you and DRJ to further avoid contact with the persons in my blocking script.

    nk (1d9030)

  234. Frankly, Trump fans promoting that drug despite having no clue are all over the internet. If that’s a troll effort to harm Trump (as he suggested was the case) why did Trump do it too? This has become yet another partisan attack. If you just point out this is dangerous, you’re a crazy democrat. If a government says ‘hold up’ simply so the drug isn’t hoarded by idiots, it’s proof Trump was right.

    This irrational conduct is the millionth example of why Trump has got to go.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  235. @148/149/150

    Because of what occurred in Arizona:

    Man Dies After Taking Drug Trump Recommended

    A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, one of the anti-malaria drugs that President Trump has mentioned in recent days, Axios reports.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  236. @226. Trump has been the using the Presidency as a cash cow to support his lifestyle and his failing businesses since he announced his candidacy in 2015. There is no way he is not going to find a way to “wet his beak” in this instance, and neither are the other excluded persons. Those people know how to steal the silver fillings from your teeth while you’re circling the Earth in a space capsule.

    Indeed. And what does the label on the growth medium in the petri dish which spawned him read?

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  237. Reagan gnomics? Robert Reich (height 4′ 11″) was not in Reagan’s administration, was he?

    nk (1d9030)

  238. DCSCA,

    chloroquine phosphate is not an anti-malarial drug anymore than Hydrogen Peroxide is water. But carry on passing the MSM’s lies.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  239. @244. NJRob: you miss the point, as usual; Trump’s blabbering brought it on; but do go on defending Dr. Quackenbush;– it is, as he would tell you- Page Six “entertaining.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  240. @246. That’s a “Laffer” 😉

    Decidedly not a ‘Club-For-Growth’-guy; you need to be a supply-sider with a $100,000/month cocaine habit and get banned from Wall St., for life to join- as Snowman Kudlow can tell you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  241. However, I have long disputed Ragspierre’s characterization of me as a “T-rump cultist” and similar and have never once “self-identified” as a “cultist.”

    See, this is, to a trial lawyer, an interesting assertion.

    I’ve made something of a practice of pursuing fraud cases. NooooooOOOOOOoooobdy will call themselves a fraud, though they are guilty as sin of defrauding people, businesses, governments, etc. Those of us who have studied the issue have learned what are called “badges of fraud”. These are tells, or indicators, of fraudulent conduct. Some people mistakenly believe that fraud cases are almost impossible to prove. But often you win them by showing what isn’t there, but should be. I use the story of spotting planes on a clear moonless night. You look for holes in the stars.

    Nobody in litigation will admit to being a tortfeasor, either. They will brazen it out. That is why we have the majority of trials. Only occasionally will you find a case going to trial where there is a good-faith position on both sides. Most often, those are settled way upstream of trial.

    In jury argument, I often use a saying we all know; “By their fruits, ye shall know them”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  242. chloroquine phosphate is not an anti-malarial drug anymore than Hydrogen Peroxide is water. But carry on passing the MSM’s lies.

    NJRob (4d595c) — 3/25/2020 @ 11:12 am

    30 seconds on google proves that you’re wrong.

    From the CDC

    Chloroquine (also known as chloroquine phosphate) is an antimalarial medicine. It is available in the United States by prescription only.

    From Web MD

    Chloroquine Phosphate
    COMMON BRAND(S): Aralen

    GENERIC NAME(S): Chloroquine Phosphate

    From MedlinePlus.Gov

    Chloroquine phosphate is in a class of drugs called antimalarials and amebicides. It is used to prevent and treat malaria. It is also used to treat amebiasis.

    This medication is sometimes prescribed for other uses; ask your doctor or pharmacist for more information.

    I suspect that the aquarium stuff differs from the medicine. But the medicine appears to also be a Chloroquine Phosphate.

    You should go back to whoever told you the MSM was lying and tell them they made you look foolish.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  243. 237. the Bulwark???hah, hah, hah hah, hah, hah,hah, hah, hah, he, he.

    Ahem, sorry… the Bulwark? There is nothing in that entire article. A passel of innuendo, but not a single action that was recommended by the EXPERTS, not followed up on by President Trump. Hang your hat on delayed testing, but that is a CDC,FDA, FUBAR & CYA event. The lies from his agencies are what prompted the Public/Private partnership put together by the President, that finally got things moving. The only thing the President is guilty of is listening to the experts.
    The entire article is meaningless fluff.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  244. 241 “because that’s what occurred in Arizona”

    No. What occurred in Arizona is two people ingested fish tank cleaner. They are the kind of people that need the warning on a 5 gal bucket that it is a drowning hazard.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  245. Iowan2, Trump has failed to act on this all year. If the Agencies that work for him and have for 3 years it’s on him. There was plenty of warning about this and had we reacted sooner things would be better off today. But he didn’t. It’s fair to hold him accountable.

    January 22nd: Trump is asked about the coronavirus at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Days earlier the first case of the coronavirus was detected in the U.S., in a man who had returned to Seattle from a trip to China earlier in January.

    “No, not at all. We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control,” Trump told CNBC. “It’s going to be just fine.”

    February 28th: During a rally in South Carolina, Trump alleges Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, calling it “their new hoax.”

    February 29th: While speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference, Trump again claims his administration has the coronavirus under control.

    “I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible,” Trump said. “And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.”

    It would be revealed later that a CPAC attendee tested positive for COVID-19, leading multiple Republican lawmakers who came into contact with him to self-quarantine.

    March 4th: In an interview with Sean Hannity, Trump calls the WHO’s estimate of the global death rate “false,” describes the coronavirus as “very mild,” and suggests that those infected can get better by “sitting around” and “going to work.”

    March 7th: “No, I’m not concerned at all,” Trump said from Mar-a-Lago. “No, I’m not. No, we’ve done a great job.”

    March 9th: Trump bashes Democrats for sounding the alarm “far beyond what the facts would warrant” before implying that the common flu is far worse, an argument he’s made on several occasions and which has been parroted by Fox News.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  246. 251. What action was Trump supposed to demand the the EXPERTS at the CDC execute that had yet to be recommended?

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  247. Listen to experts!!!

    On Wednesday the Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, told an audience the “world was slow to react to the coronavirus.”
    This is quite a statement coming from the man who downplayed the deadliness of this same virus back in January.</i.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  248. No. What occurred in Arizona is two people ingested fish tank cleaner. They are the kind of people that need the warning on a 5 gal bucket that it is a drowning hazard.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/25/2020 @ 1:37 pm

    They are the kind of people who (used to) believe Trump:

    “I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, ‘Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV?'” the woman told NBC.

    “Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure,” she said, adding her advice for people would be, “Don’t take anything. Don’t believe anything. Don’t believe anything that the president says and his people … call your doctor.”

    DRJ (15874d)


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