Patterico's Pontifications

3/24/2020

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick: Lots Of Seniors Willing To Risk Their Lives To Save Economy

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:57 am



[guest post by Dana]

The Texas Lt. Gov. suggests grandparents would be willing to risk their survivial so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn’t have to endure the collapse of the economy:

“I don’t pretend to be speaking for everyone 70-plus,” Patrick’s text read. “But I think there are lots of grandparents out there who would agree with me that I want my grandchildren to live in the America I did.”

“I want them to have a shot at the American Dream but right now there’s a virus which all the experts say that 98 percent of all people will survive… is killing our country in another way,” the text continued. “It could bring about a total economic collapse and potentially a collapse of our society. So I say let’s give this a few more days or weeks but after that, let’s go back to work and go back to living. Those we want to shelter in place can still do so but we can’t live with uncertainty.”

Patrick claims that his greatest fears isn’t that he’s in the high risk pool, but rather how the country is being impacted:

“No one reached out to me and said as a senior citizen, ‘Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?’” Patrick declared. “And if that is the exchange, I’m all in.”

Adding that “there are lots of grandparents” who would make the same choice because “they don’t want the whole country sacrificed,” Patrick said that, as a small businessman, his “heart is lifted” by the president’s recent pivot.

Patrick concluded by insisting that the “biggest gift” grandparents can give their grandkids is “the legacy of our country,” all while wondering why we need to “shut down the whole country” since the “mortality rate is so low.”

While Patrick doesn’t say exactly how many sacrificed lives it would take to save the economy, no one’s life should be considered expendable. Not the elderly, the infirmed (whether mentally or physically), and certainly not because they’ve managed to live for 70 years. And while Patrick claims he is speaking for himself, it’s disturbing that an elected official chose to tout this idea in a public forum. This is an awful take.

None of our family member’s lives are expendable:

“My mother is not expendable, your mother is not expendable and our brothers and sisters are not expendable, and we’re not going to accept the premise that human life is disposable, and we’re not going to put a dollar figure on human life. The first order of business is to save lives, period. Whatever it costs,”

–Dana

159 Responses to “Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick: Lots Of Seniors Willing To Risk Their Lives To Save Economy”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. To all medical professionals around the world:

    My name is Dr. Zev Zelenko and I practice medicine in Monroe, NY [he is a prominent physician there]. For the last 16 years, I have cared for approximately 75% of the adult population of Kiryas Joel, which is a very close knit community of approximately 35,000 people in which the infection spread rapidly and unchecked prior to the imposition of social distancing.

    As of today my team has tested approximately 200 people from this community for Covid-19, and 65% of the results have been positive. If extrapolated to the entire community, that means more than 20,000 people are infected at the present time. Of this group, I estimate that there are 1500 patients who are in the high-risk category (i.e. >60, immunocompromised, comorbidities, etc).
    Given the urgency of the situation, I developed the following treatment protocol in the pre-hospital setting and have seen only positive results:

    1. Any patient with shortness of breath regardless of age is treated.
    2. Any patient in the high-risk category even with just mild symptoms is treated.
    3. Young, healthy and low risk patients even with symptoms are not treated (unless their circumstances change and they fall into category 1 or 2).

    My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

    1. Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days
    2. Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
    3. Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days

    The rationale for my treatment plan is as follows. I combined the data available from China and South Korea with the recent study published from France (sites available on request). We know that hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell. We know that Zinc slows viral replication within the cell. Regarding the use of azithromycin, I postulate it prevents secondary bacterial infections.
    These three drugs are well known and usually well tolerated, hence the risk to the patient is low.
    Since last Thursday, my team has treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel and another 150 patients in other areas of New York with the above regimen.

    Of this group and the information provided to me by affiliated medical teams, we have had ZERO deaths, ZERO hospitalizations, and ZERO intubations. In addition, I have not heard of any negative side effects other than approximately 10% of patients with temporary nausea and diarrhea.

    In sum, my urgent recommendation is to initiate treatment in the outpatient setting as soon as possible [emphasis added] in accordance with the above. Based on my direct experience, it prevents acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), prevents the need for hospitalization and saves lives.

    With much respect,

    Dr. Zev Zelenko

    cc: President Donald J. Trump; Mr. Mark Meadows, Chief of Staff

    And now he can’t practice this life-saving medicine because of Governor Cuomo’s executive order last night.

    P.S. His regime is exactly the same as my (layperson) recommended anti-viral regime for infected persons, in terms of ingredients, including the zinc, and also in terms of treating patients EARLY.

    P.P.S. Governor Cuomo is going to kill a lot of people.

    P.P.P.S. Also, as a prophylactic, take at least 300 mcg of melatonin each night starting immediately.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  3. This is based on the false premise that the economy will go well when there are high levels of fatalities due to unmet demand for medical care.

    3% of the US population is equal to the population of Michigan.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  4. It’s absurd, too, because the deaths of elderly relatives are going to hurt everyone around them, and because the fear of that outcome will be almost as bad to the economy as the current shutdowns are. So very little would actually be gained.

    aphrael (7962af)

  5. You said this endlessly. At this point, your comments are spam, MAOA.

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. 3% of the us population is more than the entire American war dead of all wars the US has ever fought in combined.

    aphrael (7962af)

  7. None of our grandchildren’s futures are expendable either. In a depression that is a certainty. Since this virus will remain with us in any event, there will always be some risk to the aged. It’s not all one thing or the other.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. The Texas Lt. Gov. suggests grandparents would be willing to risk their survivial so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn’t have to endure the collapse of the economy:

    Hmmm…. really.

    And as the punchline of my favorite joke goes, ‘… so the American stood up, straightened his tie, shouted ‘Remember the Alamo!’ – picked up the Mexican and threw him out of the plane.”

    Yes, the Lt. Governor of Texas is an idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. None of our grandchildren’s futures are expendable either. In a depression that is a certainty. Since this virus will remain with us in any event, there will always be some risk to the aged. It’s not all one thing or the other.

    Agree completely. We need leadership on this issue.
    -Face the facts of the situation.
    -Lay out the enablers for a return to economic activity.
    -Communicate what those risks and trade offs are.
    -Work with the other stakeholders to put that plan into effect.
    -Manage the unforeseeable issues that will come up.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  10. “My mother is not expendable, your mother is not expendable and our brothers and sisters are not expendable, and we’re not going to accept the premise that human life is disposable, and we’re not going to put a dollar figure on human life. The first order of business is to save lives, period. Whatever it costs,”

    Despite the emotional content this is loaded with, it is utter nonsense. We will not spend $17 trillion dollars to save a single life. Ever. There is a dollar amount past which it makes no sense in the aggregate, and there is are quality of life issues as well. I truly wish that my mother had died a year before she did, maybe even two. Her last year was one of incredible wasting, constant pain-killers, anti-depressants and no real cognitive function. It pained me greatly that she was allowed to suffer.

    Lt Gov. Patrick is saying something that I have heard (and said) myself: “We are not asking you to do this. We do not want or need your protection. All we ask is that you allow us to protect ourselves. It is morally repugnant to us that the young should suffer for decades to give *some* of us a few more years.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. Do codgers have to start self-immolating before this message can get across?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. Memo to Dan Patrick:

    “Soylent Green… is peeeople.” – Detective Thorn [Charlton Heston] ‘Soylent Green’ 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. picked up the Mexican and threw him out of the plane.”

    I believe he was offering to be the guy staying at the Alamo while the women and children escaped. What a monster!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. The Texas Lt. Gov. suggests grandparents would be willing to risk their survivial so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn’t have to endure the collapse of the economy’

    In response, grandparents suggest Lt. Governors should be willing to risk their survival so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren would have their grandparents around to dispense wisdom from experience to endure the collapse of the economy.

    Oh, Danny Boy…. “Remember the Alamo!” 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. You said this endlessly.

    I said it twice, the second time adding more content.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  16. Anything other than mitigating the virus, taking care of ourselves, our family and our community plus NOT PANICKING needs to go on a week-by-week basis until we see the true direction the rate of severe conditions/death this thing is going to take.

    The info I read every day slowly seems to be gaining more agreement but there is so much conflicting data that decisions or timelines like Patrick suggests just seems way too premature. So far I agree with the ‘Shelter In Place’ and staying home as much as possible other than essential services. I was really worried at first that there would be resentment leading to civil unrest (or worse) but so far people are rising to the occasion.

    We can get through this but anything more than one day (or week at the most) at a time is asking plenty.

    That said, I truly agree partly in what Patrick says, that preserving our freedoms and our way of life as much as possible in the near future and more importantly after the pandemic passes is of paramount importance. I fully expect the usual crowd to use the pandemic as an excuse to increase the power of the authoritarian state.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  17. Is it progress when DCSCA refrains from using the epithet “beaner”?

    Here’s a selfless man… https://twitter.com/JamesMartinSJ/status/1242249120489897986

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. I think that trump’s “15 days” is absurd. It will take longer, and there are actually criteria to judge this by. Such as:

    1. The production and supply of ventilators, masks, gowns, etc.
    2. The establishment of new critical care facilities, however temporary. This is mostly equipment, the actual venues are less critical.
    3. The training of nursing assistants who can provide first-line care.

    We also don’t have to rip the bandage off. It’s not isolation vs mosh pit. People can ease back into things, taking care to avoid risks. Handshaking is dead for the rest of the year. So is going to work sick. Sick leave and unemployment benefits will be liberal for a while.

    But if this goes on too long, unthinkable things will happen. Government workers will be laid off and cities will go broke. Companies that have no problem making money in normal times will file for BK and their assets will be scattered to the winds. God help the family farm, local restaurants, etc. Deep-pocket chains may survive, but the little guys will all be dead. Taxes will go up.

    And recovery will be slow.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. The idea that only the old and sick are at risk from this is insane.

    Younger, healthy people – like David Lat, for example – may have a good chance of survival, but only if they receive medical care.

    In a scenario where the disease is spreading unchecked through the general population, doctors and nurses are getting sick and/or no longer able to work at surge levels due to fatigue, and all the ICU beds are full, people of all ages who could have been saved are going to die.

    Like flies. And in agony, gasping for breath.

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. My best guesstimate for when to start the transition would be late April or early May.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. Col – they saying story is made up and he gave up the ventilator cause his body wouldn’t tolerate it.

    And as a proud half-beaner, water off a pato’s hindquarters.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  22. “Every cult eventually becomes a death cult.”

    h/t Allapundit

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  23. Was there an update on Lat?

    harkin (b64479)

  24. Dave, of course it isn’t just the aged. It is mostly the aged, however. Any stats from anywhere say that. David Lat (or Dr Li) is the exception that proves the rule.

    But tell me, what does waiting do? If the number of active cases increases with time, all it seems to do is make a restart even more dangerous. The theory is “bend the curve” and that’s a good theory except for one thing: the curve isn’t bending. Unlike Korea and a few other places, we have lost the containment battle. All that is left is WHEN people get it, not if.

    So, we wait until we have built up our resources, then we apply them. If we can’t build hospitals, sew gowns and masks, and make basic ventilators by May, we aren’t trying.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. Screw all you “self-sacrificers”. My daughter’s mother is a doctor. My baby brother is a doctor. They’re on the front lines. So are a dozen other people close to me.

    You wanna die? Fine. Lock yourselves up in your homes and die.

    But there are other carriers and potential carriers out there who might infect the people I love. And I want them to keep their f***ing distance, because you “self-sacrificers” are not the only ones at risk.

    Anyway, Dan Patrick has always been an alt.right suckoff. He’s Lieutenant Governor of Texas for the same reason there are Texas jokes. In fact, he is a Texas joke.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Lincoln eventually fired McClellan. Just sayin’

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. Companies that have no problem making money in normal times will file for BK and their assets will be scattered to the winds. God help the family farm, local restaurants, etc.

    This is just more silly hysterical blather from someone who is developing a pattern of being laughably WRONG.

    One of the things that bankruptcy DOES is conserve and rationally allocate assets. It does not “scatter them to the winds”.

    Farmers of any type are going to do fine…if we don’t kill off too many of our fellow Americans in a paroxysm of cultish stupidity.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  28. nk,

    Doctors are at risk now. The longer this goes on, the longer doctors will be at risk. Since they are not going to be able to avoid sick people, as doctors, the best way to reduce their risk is to shorten their time of exposure.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. BTW, the blocking script can be edited in situ. You don’t need to reinstall it for every person. Just right click on it and scroll to the list of blockees to add a new one. If they have a long handle, just one uniquely identifiable part of it will work.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. Lincoln eventually fired McClellan. Just sayin’

    You referring to Fauci? Yeah, he should be gone.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  31. Take a look at this graph, showing up-to-date data on the number of new confirmed cases per day, by country.

    It’s plotted on a logarithmic scale, so the difference between 10 and 100 looks the same as the difference between 100 and 1000. This is the best way to see trends in the exponential spread of the disease. The United States is leading the world, with over 11,000 in the last 24-hour period shown. But it doesn’t look so bad, does it? There are a lot of countries just a little below us.

    Now click where it says “Log” in the upper left-hand corner, a little bit below the word “Daily”.

    This changes the graph back to a linear scale, which is the scale our brains intuitively understand – the scale of actual people suffering with the disease. The scale where the difference between 100 and 1000 is ten times worse than the difference between 10 and 100, and where the exponential growth looks exponential.

    Do you see how much sh*t we’re in at the moment? Talking about resuming normal activity while the number of infected is still screaming upward like this is madness. Lunacy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  32. The longer this goes on, the longer doctors will be at risk.

    And you have no clue how long that will be. One thing we DO know is that we can buy time (see what I did there?) using some simple, common-sense modalities like the governors of most states, the government of GB, and dozens of other nations are using.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  33. One of the things that bankruptcy DOES is conserve and rationally allocate assets. It does not “scatter them to the winds”.

    It only does this when they are not being used economically where they are. Since this situation is a terribly contrived one, the conditions of the businesses affected are unrelated to their viability in normal times.

    Asset sales are pennies on the dollar, and the value of the parts is never the value of their sum in an ongoing organization.

    To hear you tell it we could increase the wealth of the country if we put every organization through BK.

    As for small farms — any business that is not part of a vertical or horizontal structure is going to be wiped out. No deep pockets means no staying power. The bank is not going to make another loan when you can’t pay the one you have. Of course, that just means more asset sales, which you seem to think are a positive good.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. Turning filter on now.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. GigEm247
    @GigEm247
    ·
    In tragic news, former Texas A&M basketball star David Edwards has passed away from the coronavirus

    harkin (b64479)

  36. Younger, healthy people – like David Lat, for example – may have a good chance of survival, but only if they receive medical care.

    He has a poor chance of survival now, unfortunately. He would have had a far better chance of survival if treated appropriately early, such as via Dr. Zev Zelenko’s protocol.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  37. You referring to Fauci?

    I was referring to a general that would not fight. No matter what manner of men and material he was provided with,he always needed more.

    That was not to compare Fauci to McClellan, and certainly not Lincoln to Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. “My mother is not expendable, your mother is not expendable and our brothers and sisters are not expendable, and we’re not going to accept the premise that human life is disposable, and we’re not going to put a dollar figure on human life. The first order of business is to save lives, period. Whatever it costs,”

    While I am thus far impressed by Cuomo, that is an incredibly childish thing to say. Every public decision involves risks, and, yes, some level of accepting deaths.

    Are we willing to tolerate 80% unemployment for the next ten years to save one life? Not that such is likely, but that is the implication of what he is saying.

    To be fair, you left out his part of what he said, which is more mature:

    “You can have an economic startup strategy consistent with the public health strategy. It’s smart, it’s complicated, it’s sophisticated, but that’s what government is supposed to do … you can do both but not in a clumsy ham-handed way,” he added.

    Cuomo said the initial strategy to close down all nonessential businesses was not the “most refined” but, with the knowledge of the dangers of the outbreak at the time, the New York state government needed to act.

    Moving forward, he said, a more refined approach can be implemented including possibly allowing younger workers or people who have recovered from the virus return to work.

    And, yes, as someone said above, it is not a matter of either or — return to the status quo ante, or continue the current situation. Even if we start going back to work in, say, 30-45 days, there will still be significant changes in the way we operate.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  39. @2

    And now he can’t practice this life-saving medicine because of Governor Cuomo’s executive order last night.

    What order is that?

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  40. @17. What’s a beaner?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. While I am thus far impressed by Cuomo, that is an incredibly childish thing to say. Every public decision involves risks, and, yes, some level of accepting deaths.

    Did you know that Cuomo, yesterday, in executive order no. 202.10, has stopped physicians such as Dr. Zelenko (in comment 2) from being able to prescribe hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine off label? While other governors, such as Raimondo, are supporting it instead, both allowing for patient freedom and saving far more lives (almost certainly for reasons we could get into)?

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  42. Nevermind, it is here:

    https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-20210-continuing-temporary-suspension-and-modification-laws-relating-disaster-emergency

    No pharmacist shall dispense hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine except when written as prescribed for an FDA-approved indication; or as part of a state approved clinical trial related to COVID-19 for a patient who has tested positive for COVID-19, with such test result documented as part of the prescription. No other experimental or prophylactic use shall be permitted, and any permitted prescription is limited to one fourteen day prescription with no refills.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  43. @40

    From NY executive order 202.10:

    No pharmacist shall dispense hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine except when written as prescribed for an FDA-approved indication; or as part of a state approved clinical trial related to COVID-19 for a patient who has tested positive for COVID-19, with such test result documented as part of the prescription. No other experimental or prophylactic use shall be permitted, and any permitted prescription is limited to one fourteen day prescription with no refills.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  44. Maybe MAOA would be so kind as to include links to the sources it cites? Since it’s sincere goal is providing everyone with helpful information, of course, I don’t see why this should be objectionable.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  45. To hear you tell it we could increase the wealth of the country if we put every organization through BK.

    This is, of course, a farcical lie. I did say, hint, or allude to any such notion.

    What I said is empirically TRUE. It is WHY bankruptcy exists; to PRESERVE assets.

    A family farmer with a market for their goods will do fine. Cut that market by killing people who EAT off WILL kill farmers.

    Duh Donald has hurt American farmers with his idiot tariffs, which is why he’s shoveled more money to them than the entire bank bail-outsssssss. The ruling ‘brights’ in DC are not going to allow farmers to go with capital. Even if it requires them to hold the “run” button on the printing presses a bit longer.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  46. I did not say, hint, or allude to any such notion.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  47. “The Texas Lt. Gov. suggests grandparents would be willing to risk their survivial so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn’t have to endure the collapse of the economy”…

    Sarah’s ‘Death Panels,’ eh, Danny Boy!

    Idiot.

    ________

    Trump/Pence waste two hours today on Fox ‘Town Hall’== headline: wants America back to work and country open for business by Easter.

    How’s that wall coming along?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. Maybe MAOA would be so kind as to include links to the sources it cites? Since it’s sincere goal is providing everyone with helpful information, of course, I don’t see why this should be objectionable.

    This is a good question and not objectionable to me in the slightest, Leviticus. However, I been unable to get even one link of any kind, no matter how innocuous, through the spam filter and I have no idea why. Therefore, all I can do is cite the source and includes quotes from it. You can do a text search, using a portion of a quote, in Google to find the source and/or find it via the source given, such as when I mention a specific medical study or an executive order number.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  49. …it’s for the children…!!!

    Dan Patrick; not a character from The Simpsons.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  50. @17. He can’t comfort and do good for anyone anymore.

    Given the circumstances, you’ve confused selflessness w/common sense– something he obviously lacked.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. BTW, Dr. Zelnko’s regime has been used by others with some limited success.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-drugs-are-helping-our-coronavirus-patients-11584899438

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  52. “ However, I been unable to get even one link of any kind, no matter how innocuous, through the spam filter and I have no idea why.”

    – MAOA

    LOL okay. Have you discussed this unique affliction with the admins?

    Leviticus (140f0f)

  53. MAOA — Mine went through just fine. I did not even use the LINK function — just cut and pasted the link from my browser (from another tab).

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  54. This is the side of the political spectrum that claims to be the underdog’s only option:

    Tommy Vietor
    @TVietor08

    Who would have predicted that Americans would be living under statewide lockdowns? But here we are: Isolated in our homes, working from our couches, bringing our bottles of red wine into our showers, & asking our plants if they’re mad at us.

    https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1242473233393152003?s=20
    __ _

    The replies are gold. A few examples:

    Chuck Anderson
    @NoPattern
    ·
    All 5 of my immediate family members have filed for unemployment. Cool article
    __ _

    Colton
    @donutrush

    [attached article: Former Obama spokesman buys $2.8 million Los Angeles home.]
    __ _

    Thirst Slaker
    @Fly_Pete
    ·
    Replying to
    @TVietor08

    I’m reading this in my mail truck, taking a 10 minute break from touching thousands of pieces of paper and cardboard which have been handled by hundreds of other people across the country. Welp, time to wipe down my phone, put on a new pair of gloves, and get back at it. See ya!
    __ _

    Hephaestus
    @tim_moshier
    ·
    Gonna be honest it really sucks seeing the journalism class write a ton about boredom while I’m out here working double hours on the ambulance. 3 of my friends and coworkers are sick. We’re running out of masks.

    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  55. Dan Patrick’s disrespect of the sanctity and value of life and family are shameful. I also think his figures rely on assumptions that only death/life matters, and even if we just all go back to work, it will just be a tiny percentage affected. We need time to produce ventilators, respirators, and research treatments.

    Ford apparently is making ventilators out of F-150 parts. Not as flashy as Tesla, but I bet it has a huge impact. I’ll definitely be thinking about both Dan Patrick and Ford as I make decisions in voting and purchases.

    Also, MOAO’s whole point in flooding this thread with all these off topic comments is to get us off topic. He could have apologized to DRJ and gone to the open thread but he would rather troll some more.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  56. The seniors don’t have to risk their lives to nearly the same extent as they are. They can be treated early and not die.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  57. Prove me wrong, MAOA: http://patterico.com/2020/03/21/weekend-open-thread-25/#comments

    Go paste your material in this open thread. Also, please stick to a consistent name so people who want to block your name don’t have to keep updating their filter. (I’m just speaking for myself, but these two things would be nice).

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  58. They can be treated early and not die.

    And throwing virgins into caldera prevents earthquakes.

    Ask Niki-niki, an authority on the subject! No earthquakes in YEARS…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  59. Mr. Patrick said he won’t speak for all 70-plus folks, but all those 70-plus would be at risk regardless if we go with his proposal. Same for all the sub-70 somethings with underlying health issues; he’s basically telling them to take one for the team. I don’t see anything good coming from this.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  60. Yup, Paul.

    He’s not giving them a choice. He’s pretending they obviously choose to risk it and saying they don’t love their families if they complain. Like a pushy car salesman.

    Meanwhile Bucee’s needs the revenue. Texans: QT is actually really good. (these are convenience stores, and Bucees is affiliated with Patrick).

    This is dumb. We don’t want to flood our hospitals even if the people flooding them are older. Do I want to be in a hospital and argue that I should get the ventilator over someone’s grandma? Is that really Texas? F— no it isn’t.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  61. Ah I’m hearing a bunch of sanctimonious twits. Triage of a sort occurs in epidemics and disasters of all kinds. The same triage process goes on in ordinary hospital emergency rooms.

    Difficult choices are made by transplant doctors and hospitals every day in the world. Who gets the transplanted organ? [I have a friend who waited four years for a heart transplant. At the end of a three year wait, he automatically went to the bottom of the waiting list again. A friend’s son waited for a liver transplant–and died before one was available.]]

    Certainly in the real (non sanctimonious blogging world) world those decisions are made based at least in part upon the age, health, and expected longevity of the potential recipient. For the Wuhan China virus apparently the item in short supply these days is access to a ventilator and a respiratory technician to monitor it. If you’ve got a 75 year old lieutenant governor with six grandkids and a 35 year old mother of two young children–and both the governor and the mother are critical–and there’s one ventilator, who gets it?

    Skeptical Voter (613a87)

  62. Maybe MAOA would be so kind as to include links to the sources it cites? Since its sincere goal is providing everyone with helpful information, of course, I don’t see why this should be objectionable

    It rubs the lotion on its skin. “Silence of the Lambs II: Buffalo Bill Gets Pissy”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. Its texas what do you expect?

    rota (86f62c)

  64. If you’ve got a 75 year old lieutenant governor with six grandkids and a 35 year old mother of two young children–and both the governor and the mother are critical–and there’s one ventilator, who gets it?

    Skeptical Voter (613a87) — 3/24/2020 @ 12:23 pm

    One option is that they all get ventilators by delaying the spread of the disease for a few months and encouraging Ford and Tesla to make 100,000 of them this year.

    Another option is to say it’s just whining, ignore this possibility, and open up businesses to protect a political party’s viability in November.

    We’re not arguing about triage. We’re arguing about lives versus economic interests.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  65. he’s basically telling them to take one for the team.

    How are the folks who argue “we have to keep this isolation up for months” and “it’s going to be a depression but that’s OK” not telling EVERYONE to take won for the team. A team that mostly exclude the ones making the sacrifice.

    There’s quite a bit of sanctimony flying around.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. My fingers type homonyms. Who knew?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. 66.

    There’s quite a bit of sanctimony flying around.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/24/2020 @ 12:44 pm

    Do you expect anything else from bureaucrats?

    Gryph (08c844)

  68. Ventilators are fairly easy to make if you aren’t too picky about what you call a ventilator. They were using them LONG before someone added computers and $50K to the cost. It needs a pump, some pacing and volume controls — rheostats will work — and a breathing tube.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. Do you expect anything else from bureaucrats?

    Sure. Sloth for one.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. Do you expect anything else from bureaucrats?

    Yes… waste… gluttony… feathering their nests… entitlement… etc.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. 71. 72. Ah, yes. Point taken.

    Gryph (08c844)

  72. How are the folks who argue “we have to keep this isolation up for months” and “it’s going to be a depression but that’s OK” not telling EVERYONE to take won for the team. A team that mostly exclude the ones making the sacrifice.

    There’s quite a bit of sanctimony flying around.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/24/2020 @ 12:44 pm

    Good point.

    The real issue is that we are discussing lives lost to quick disease spread versus lives harmed (and a few cost) from economic devastation. Patrick’s sleight of hand is putting old versus young and playing into guilt, but time will make a big difference in the triage situations.

    This is just an economic defense. And I respectfully suggest we not bother comparing what’s coming to what was. 2019’s economy was not on the menu of possibilities for 2020. In fact, I personally think the economy would be much worse in 2020 if we didn’t shut a lot of businesses down, because they would wind up failing in a disastrous situation. Keep our cool and cutting our losses sooner might be the least bad way. I could be very wrong about that, but I’m not wrong that the economy this year was screwed regardless. Maybe if China had handled things honestly it wouldn’t be, but cat’s out of the bag.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  73. Hanging curve…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  74. CPAP machines can be used to assist breathing in less critical cases. Oxygen can also be used. It’s not the latest and greatest Medtronic ventilator versus nothing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. “House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Panderville) just announced she has dropped procedural blockage and will allow a vote on the Senate’s version of the COVID bill instead of holding the nation hostage by demanding what some commentators called “racial and gender pay equity provisions, diversity on corporate boards, increased use of minority-owned banks by federal offices, and a grab-bag of other diversity-themed requirements.”

    That’s good news.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. That’s Texas. I can tell you that in DC, New York and California the old people would kill everyone under 14, if it would buy them one extra week.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  77. About the Satmar Rebbe’s doctor and his prediction
    https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2020/03/19/kiryas-joel-video-coronavirus-spread-debunked/2879652001/

    Kiryas Yoel is not the place I would go to for cutting edge medical knowledge.

    Kishnevi (121377)

  78. Another point, we seem to give too much credit to our good years. They are always bubbles now. They are always houses of cards built on deficits and debt. Huge corporations and banks can’t handle problems without bailouts, even though responsible adults are expected to save some money for a rainy day. We’re told ‘that’s not their fault… a pandemic isn’t their doing’ but that’s a BS argument. These institutions should have prepared for the possibility of economic problems. It’s hard to do that when you’re judged on quarterly performance, but if we call this what it is: irresponsible, that will help. The 2008 bailout failed the citizens of 2020. Each trillion dollar deficit in good years failed us today.

    This idea that we better squeeeeeze every drop out of the economy, and grandma should be honored to die for the cause, is actually not good for the long term economy.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  79. All-Risk Commercial Insurance Policies May Cover Restaurants and Bars During Coronavirus Pandemic

    Interesting, and another reason not to get all hysterical.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  80. The truth of the matter is that we are having to balance harms, and nobody gets out of this life alive anyway. Death is waiting for us all, but poverty isn’t necessary. The FLU kills people. We accept that. Traffic accidents kill people, we accept that. Many vices kill people, and we mostly accept that, too. To say that we cannot accept even one death from this virus is not only wrong, it’s fantasy, and to say that we will pay any price to avoid that is, to coin a term, hysterical.

    I am getting a definite “We had to destroy the village in order to save it vibe.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. That’s good news.

    I have a theory that this, like a few other things Nancy has done, are meant as demonstrations to the Four Horsewomen of the Apocalypse that their ideas are not nearly as popular as they think.

    Kishnevi (121377)

  82. All Mr. Patrick’s next opponent has to do is make a few minor adjustments to this ad, and it’s all over for the Lt. Gov.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  83. All-Risk Commercial Insurance Policies May Cover Restaurants and Bars During Coronavirus Pandemic

    Travel insurance companies have been refusing to honor travel interruptions due to coronavirus. Mainly because they’d have to pay off all policies at once; the same thing drove a number of earthquake insurers under after the CA quakes of the 90’s.

    The only thing saving commercial insurers is that most small business only insures liability/E&O.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. 82. Haven’t I been saying just that exact thing for days now?

    As long as the “social distancing recommendations” remain just that, government recommendations, the economic damage will be minimal and manageable. I don’t trust government recommendations to remain recommendations, though. They almost always turn into government diktat.

    Gryph (08c844)

  85. That’s good news.

    I have a theory that this means she’s filled the Senate bill with enough unrelated nonsense to satisfy her constituents.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. 83… or perhaps she’s just an ideological fanatic.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. “House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that she will attempt to pass the Senate’s coronavirus economic stimulus package – putting aside the alternative, projected $2.5 trillion measure that she proposed. The California Democrat said she’ll try to pass the Senate’s projected $1.8 trillion measure by unanimous consent, meaning House members can say yes without having to come to Capitol Hill to vote.“

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. Travel insurance companies have been refusing to honor travel interruptions due to coronavirus. Mainly because they’d have to pay off all policies at once; the same thing drove a number of earthquake insurers under after the CA quakes of the 90’s.

    The only thing saving commercial insurers is that most small business only insures liability/E&O.

    As usual, you don’t know spit about dog-spit. Your ignorance of a multitude of subjects appears only exceeded by your hunger to be hysterically WRONG.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  89. There are several things you should keep in mind looking at the numbers.

    All of the numbers I’ve seen are absolutes and don’t adjust for per-capita. I’m not sure that’s relevant but something to think about. There are more people 18-34 in the US than in all of Italy and that age bracket still has a noticeable chance of getting sick and/or dying from this.

    I’ve noticed the stealth increase in publically discussed mortality numbers. It used to be below 1%, then it was 1%. Now we’re hearing 2% and 3% when just a couple of days ago those were mocked.

    When you’re looking at the mortality numbers you should be checking today’s total deaths with the cases 14 days ago. If you do that the mortality numbers are very scary.

    If you want to presume the testing will reduce the mortality numbers please take a look at SK. They have good testing and their mortality number is 1.3% using the optimistic math. Also, review NY with a mortality rate of 0.8%.

    Even if you asked the old people to take one for the team we’d still lose a lot of 18-50. We need a balanced path because if the system gets overwhelmed we’ll have a lot of deaths from non-covid and covid causes that couldn’t be prevented because the resources had been exhausted.

    I think on 1/Mar the US count was 30, on 15/Mar it was 3487, and today it is 51k.

    frosty (f27e97)

  90. @90

    Ragspierre, as usual you don’t make any arguments or even take specific issue with others’ arguments, you spew venom and vitriol.

    MAOA who suggests ≤ 300 mcg melatonin/night (23f793)

  91. Can’t argue with Slow Joe.

    Listen: we all love the economy. Love. In love, in some cases. Fanatical devotion to making those numbers get bigger. I’d dive on a grenade for the economy, I would. No foolin. But it is simply foolish to think we can elbow grease our way through the Red Pestilence.

    Paul Montagu (df60ed)

  92. As usual, you don’t know spit about dog-spit. Your ignorance of a multitude of subjects appears only exceeded by your hunger to be hysterically WRONG.

    Why is this person’s unrelenting vituperous comments tolerated? Especially in the utter absence of any substantive & responsive content?

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  93. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/24/2020 @ 1:02 pm

    The truth of the matter is that we are having to balance harms, and nobody gets out of this life alive anyway. Death is waiting for us all, but poverty isn’t necessary. The FLU kills people. We accept that. Traffic accidents kill people, we accept that. Many vices kill people, and we mostly accept that, too.

    All of these happen over time periods that our systems have been adapted to deal with. This thing has the potential to kill an astounding number of people in a couple of months.

    To say that we cannot accept even one death from this virus is not only wrong, it’s fantasy, and to say that we will pay any price to avoid that is, to coin a term, hysterical.

    Who’s saying we are doing this to save one person? You’ve said that a few times but I’ve never heard anyone say we are doing this for one person. We are doing this for 1% of 1/3rd of 320M people or roughly 1M people if you believe the low estimate of how many people this can infect and an optimistic mortality estimate.

    frosty (f27e97)

  94. I don’t think it is time to go back to business as usual in Texas, and neither does the Texas Governor so what the Lt. Gov. says is not going to change anything. But I understand a little how he feels. I’m old. I’ve lived my life and feel good about how things have gone, and I would gladly die now if it meant my kids could avoid the disturbing debt and economic hardships that are coming. But that isn’t how this works. There are no labels that say who dies and who lives, and the best thing we can do is give our health care system time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. frosty (f27e97) — 3/24/2020 @ 1:31 pm

    Good comment. It would also help to see the mortality rate as compared to (a) the rate for infection v. hospitalization, and (b) infection v. minor symptoms and recovery w/o hospitalization. But apparently that data is unobtainable at this time.
    I’d also like to see stats exclusive of the top maybe 3 urban hotspots, to get an idea of what the typical rates are in areas with more “normal” residential density.

    I’m open to persuasion that Plattsburg NY may need mandatory house-confinement on the same level as NYC, but I’m not there yet.

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  96. Tokyo Olympics officially postponed until 2021 – source, CBS Sports

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. ColoComment, because we are ignoring him at this point.

    DRJ (15874d)

  98. I have a theory that this, like a few other things Nancy has done, are meant as demonstrations to the Four Horsewomen of the Apocalypse that their ideas are not nearly as popular as they think.

    Kishnevi (121377) — 3/24/2020 @ 1:04 pm

    Fascinating! You are probably right. She used to just tell them, and that kept blowing up in her face. It’s just another version of verbal judo.

    Both sides political leadership are trying so hard to use this crisis for politics. Both sides fanatics insist it’s the other side that’s ‘really bad’.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  99. Ragspierre, as usual you don’t make any arguments or even take specific issue with others’ arguments, you spew venom and vitriol.

    Dr. Witch, how’s it your business?

    I squashed your lil’ trolling bug early today using specifics and rational argument, along with reference to my own statements you tried to lie about.

    Do you know crap-all about the insurance industry? No? That would put you even with Kevin.

    OR, you MIGHT learn something and do some research into the matter of all-risk commercial insurance and WHY ol’ Kevin is being hysterically WRONG…again…some more…another time…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. Also remember the USA is not all by itself. Most of the world is responding in similar ways. Trump’s buddy in India just put his country on lockdown

    https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-03-24/india-orders-full-lockdown-for-13-billion-residents-to-stop-coronavirus-spread

    New Zealand is about to go into a month long lockdown (they were given 48 hours to prepare).

    And so on.

    And those will have an important impact on our economy no matter what we do or do not do.

    Kishnevi (121377)

  101. Ol’ BoJo is imposing 3 weeks in GB.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  102. Who’s saying we are doing this to save one person? You’ve said that a few times but I’ve never heard anyone say we are doing this for one person. We are doing this for 1% of 1/3rd of 320M people or roughly 1M people if you believe the low estimate of how many people this can infect and an optimistic mortality estimate

    That’s the crazy part. Well, it’s only the flu, except 10X to 30X worse, and that doesn’t even include it’s additional transmission rate directly from carriers and it’s environmental hardiness. Flu deaths last week were 487, CV-19 went from zero to 684 in 2 months, the vast majority in the last week, 131 in the last day, and it’s rate of growth is accelerating, that’s what exponential means. Humans have a terrible ability to comprehend exponential.

    Even if the curve magically flattens in a week, we’re talking about more dead than the annual flu by May 1st, if magic happens. But it’s only the old and the sick, they’re not economically viable. I seem to remember a lot of people complaining about death panels, how quaint. If it’s my mom it’s OK, if its your mom, well, isolate everyone.

    If the argument is they’re not worth it, sack up and say it plainly, trying to back in some other other arguments is just soft. If your over 70, die, because you’re not worth the effort. But then, should we expend the effort when they’re just down with the normal flu, they consume the vast majority of health resources, so if now isn’t viable, why is it viable any other time. We’d all be better off financially if the old would just go away.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  103. I put my trust and faith in my better half’s hair-cutting ability and she’s just done a better job than my barber 💈 ✅

    My fears were unwarranted. What an amazing woman.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. ColoComment (2429fb) — 3/24/2020 @ 1:35 pm

    The unfamiliar quote has got to be from one of the trolls I ignore. I’m ignoring all the trolls by using the script that is available on the sidebar.

    I recommend it highly; it streamlines the blog by removing both the unnecessary noise and clutter.

    felipe (023cc9)

  105. I have been working finishing off a walkout basement. Owners are in Jackson Hole. With 2 more mouths to feed I need to keep making money. Working alone seems ok to me. My wife is out of work as being a personnel trainer and bartender are not trending right now. Although with the baby coming home in a few days she won’t care.

    mg (8cbc69)

  106. While Beto got the credit for almost beating Ted Cruz and for the Democrats’ 2018 gains in Texas, ikt was really Dan Patrick’s actions during the 2017 session of the Texas Legislature that set up the dynamic that cause a lot of suburban voters to got with the Democrats in many races in the midterms. Patrick and then-Texas House Speaker Joe Straus went at it over a lot of the budget and social issues that Patrick pushed, because in the wake of the 2014 and 2016 elections, he thought he had the power to push through a hyper-conservative agenda.

    The suburban voters in ’18 said no — next to Cruz, Patrick had the closest re-election fight, winning by about 400,000 votes — twice a big a margin as Cruz, but less than half of Greg Abbott, who won re-election by over a million votes, so about 300,000 people who voted for Abbott also voted for Patrick’s opponent in 2018. The result was Patrick laid really, really low during the 2019 Texas Legislature session, and didn’t really start coming out of his ‘shell’ until the past few months, when Straus’ hand-picked successor, Dennis Bonnen got caught on tape trying to make a questionable deal with one of Patrick’s outside PAC allies.

    Bonnen’s decision to not run again for Speaker in 2021 has Patrick again feeling like he’s the master of the Lone Star universe, and when he gets overconfident, he has a tendency to do a header into a dumpster, as he did with his COVID-19 comments here (where you can definitely make the case that the economy can’t stay closed until a vaccine is found and there are no new COVID-19 deaths in the U.S., but Patrick here makes the case for reopening everything before we’ve found out what the parameters of the virus are going to be on average in the U.S. He’s just lucky he’s not up for re-election until 2022).

    John (c7bcb1)

  107. Although with the baby coming home in a few days she won’t care.

    mg (8cbc69) — 3/24/2020 @ 2:28 pm

    Very happy to hear that.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  108. Bonnen’s decision to not run again for Speaker in 2021 has Patrick again feeling like he’s the master of the Lone Star universe, and when he gets overconfident, he has a tendency to do a header into a dumpster, as he did with his COVID-19 comments here (where you can definitely make the case that the economy can’t stay closed until a vaccine is found and there are no new COVID-19 deaths in the U.S., but Patrick here makes the case for reopening everything before we’ve found out what the parameters of the virus are going to be on average in the U.S. He’s just lucky he’s not up for re-election until 2022).

    John (c7bcb1) — 3/24/2020 @ 2:29 pm

    Well said. There’s an intelligent case to be made. We’re going to have suicides, poverty… there’s probably a smart way to balance these issues in the least bad way. Then there’s what Lt. Dan said.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  109. 1M people if you believe the low estimate of how many people this can infect and an optimistic mortality estimate.

    That low estimate keeps changing. A few weeks back the DO NOTHING range started at 200K. Have we increased that to 1M by our efforts? Statements like “we’re not going to put a dollar figure on human life. The first order of business is to save lives, period. Whatever it costs”, as above, imply that no effort is too extreme, even for one life.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. Have we increased that to 1M by our efforts?

    I think we just understand a lot more now. If we do, the low end will go up and the high end will go down as we zero in on the truth.

    We know the limit to how well we can do. We know how unreliable China’s data was (I mean they claim they have no new cases in Wuhan). We know more about where the curve and our supply of resources will hit.

    Not sure if it will hit a million, but it will go over 200k. That was the low end, but it’s no longer the low end. I also think we’ve brought the high end down.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  111. Thanks, Dustin.

    mg (8cbc69)

  112. felipe (023cc9) — 3/24/2020 @ 2:22 pm

    Yes, I’ve seen others refer to that script. Generally I just pause on, and then simply ignore & scroll past what tends to annoy me. And that has worked fine for me. But thank you for the suggestion. I’ll think about it.
    On this blog, however, which I have been reading for many years, and on and from which I have seen any number of commenters blocked and banned for alleged ad nominem offenses, I am puzzled as to the longevity of this particular commenter.
    So I thought I’d ask.

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  113. You guys ARE aware that the news item of a few days ago that said that “20% of all cases were in ages 20-44″ was retracted. Right? A slight typo, they changed it to “20-64″ although the 40,000 news articles that quoted the original article are still up and wrong.

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927196

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  114. It’s “ad hominem offenses,” of course.

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  115. On this blog, however, which I have been reading for many years, and on and from which I have seen any number of commenters blocked and banned for alleged ad nominem offenses, I am puzzled as to the longevity of this particular commenter..

    He does strongly agree with the “Never Trump” editorial position of this blog. I would be disingenuous if I said I didn’t think the two things could be related.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  116. It’s “ad hominem offenses,” of course.

    Ah. Before your correction, I thought you might be referring to numerous.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  117. I asked him to chill a few days ago, ColoComment, and others joined in but he didn’t change. So ignore.

    mg, that is wonderful news.

    DRJ (15874d)

  118. We read your comments, MAOA, and not his. I can stop both if you prefer.

    DRJ (15874d)

  119. A young child was just diagnosed in my town. The old and the young are at risk if you go by my town.

    DRJ (15874d)

  120. Both sides political leadership are trying so hard to use this crisis for politics. Both sides fanatics insist it’s the other side that’s ‘really bad’.

    You can judge for yourselves… here’s a partial list of Pelosi’s Pork, with the PDF at the bottom:

    $100,000,000 to NASA
    $20,000,000,000 to the USPS
    $300,000,000 to the Endowment for the Arts
    $300,000,000 for the Endowment for the Humanities
    $15,000,000 for Veterans Employment Training
    $435,000,000 for mental health support
    $30,000,000,000 for the Department of Education stabilization fund
    $200,000,000 to Safe Schools Emergency Response to Violence Program
    $300,000,000 to Public Broadcasting
    $500,000,000 to Museums and Libraries
    $720,000,000 to Social Security Admin – most for admin costs
    $25,000,000 for Cleaning supplies for the Capitol Building
    $7,500,000 to the Smithsonian for additional salaries
    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts
    $25,000,000 for additional salary for House of Representatives
    $3,000,000,000 upgrade to the IT department at the VA
    $315,000,000 for State Department Diplomatic Programs
    $95,000,000 for the Agency of International Development
    $300,000,000 for International Disaster Assistance
    $300,000,000 for Migrant and Refugee Assistance
    $90,000,000 for the Peace Corps
    $13,000,000 to Howard University
    $9,000,000 Misc Senate Expenses
    $1,000,000,000 Airlines Recycle and Save Program
    $25,000,000 to the FAA for administrative costs
    $492,000,000 to National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak)
    $526,000,000 Grants to Amtrak to remain available if needed through 2021
    $25,000,000,000 for Transit Infrastructure
    $3,000,000 Maritime Administration
    $5,000,000 Salaries and Expensive Office of the Inspector General
    $2,500,000 Public and Indian Housing
    $5,000,000 Community Planning and Development
    $2,500,000 Office of Housing
    $1,500,000,000 Tenant-Based Rental Assistance Office of Public and Indian Housing. 1,000,000,000 of which can be used as “additional administrative and other expenses”.
    $720,000,000 to the public housing fund
    $100,000,000 for Community Block Grants for Native Americans
    $250,000,000 for Housing Block Grants for Tribes
    $130,000,000 for AIDS Housing
    $15,000,000,000 for the Community Development Fund
    $5,000,000,000 in Homeless Assistance
    $100,000,000,000 for Rental Assistance
    An additional $7,000,000 enforce the Fair Housing Act
    $1,000,000,000 for more mobile phones (“Obamaphones”)
    $227,000,000 for grants to States for youth activities
    $261,000,000 for grants to States for dislocated worker training
    $10,000,000 for Migrant and Seasonal Farmworker programs
    $100,000,000 for Job Corps
    $15,000,000 for Program Administration
    $6,500,000, to the Wage and Hour Division
    $30,000,000, to OSHA
    $10,000,000 for Susan Harwood training grants
    $1,300,000,000, for Primary Health Care
    $75,000,000, for Student Aid Administration
    $9,500,000,000, for Higher Education
    and on and on …

    Link to the House Bill below…

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6817711/Updated-House-Bill.pdf

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  121. 107… great news, mg! Best wishes to all!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. We read your comments, MAOA, and not his. I can stop both if you prefer.

    You can do whatever you want. I can’t stop you, right or wrong. I’m, however, not spitting vitriol at everyone every 1.15 comments. Certainly not contentless vitriol.

    Right or wrong, I’ve indeed made several efforts to at least try to be helpful to people here protecting their health and that of their loved ones, and the safety and recovery of the country and world. Has Ragspierre ever once in any serious way? Not that I’ve noticed.

    But again, do whatever you want to do.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  123. Ok, both.

    DRJ (15874d)

  124. Yikes! Six trillions price tag! Talk about spending like a drunken sailor.

    felipe (023cc9)

  125. @122. Really refried your beans, don’t it;

    Shorter: The United States of America.

    ________

    Trump just praised Snowman Kudlow- the supply-side-Club-For-Growth-Reaganomic-drug-addict banned from Wall St., w/t $100,000/month cocaine habit.

    We’re doomed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. @126. Yeah, but $4 trillion of it is shifting funding around between gov’t entities- it’s all creative accounting.

    Screw the cruise lines; get the checks out to families.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. “You can judge for yourselves… here’s a partial list of Pelosi’s Pork, with the PDF at the bottom:”

    I see we’re pretending to care about the deficit again.

    Davethulhu (3857ea)

  128. Yeah, daily self-rodgering…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  129. Don’t sweat it thulhu… Pelosi can read a poll at least.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  130. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/24/2020 @ 2:38 pm

    Working with those numbers; 320M * 30% * 1% * 20% = 192k in the 20-64 bracket.

    That’s still a large number in a short time. That’s also assuming only 30% are infected, 1% of those dies, and that 20% holds. That also isn’t taking into account the critically sick and the impact that has on the economy.

    The low number I keep hearing is 40% and that results in 250k dead in the 20-64 bracket.

    Just a 0.5% increase to the original numbers moves it to 280k. I know I’m the pessimistic here but I’ve heard 40-70% from reputable sources. I’m hoping an praying the mortality number is close because I’ve heard some good arguments for higher numbers.

    Just a reminder ~400k Americans died in all of WWII. 58k died in Vietnam.

    frosty (f27e97)

  131. @129. Deregulation then; bailouts now; Reaganomics… like the coronavirus, tough bug to kill:

    ‘Ronald Reagan rarely catches any blame these days for the present economic mess that is destabilizing markets in the United States and around the world. In fact, Americans often praise the former president for taking the country in bold new directions during his years in the White House. Politicians contribute to this love-fest by naming schools and roads after the iconic president. These admirers rarely acknowledge how central Reagan’s ideas are to the market difficulties troubling us today. As the country’s greatest modern champion of deregulation, perhaps Ronald Reagan contributed more to today’s unstable business climate than any other American. His long-standing campaign against the role of government in American life, a crusade he often stretched to extremes, produced conditions that ultimately proved bad for business… Economist Milton Friedman served as [Reaganomics] principal philosopher and Newt Gingrich was a leading advocate in Congress.’

    -source, https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/53527

    “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter,” Vice President Dick Cheney said when the Bush administration sought a second round of tax cuts in 2003.” – source, nr.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  132. Predictable.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  133. FYI, as a civil litigation attorney, I can tell you that there will be pressure on litigants to resolve cases via alternative dispute resolution (mediation, arbitration, simple negotiation, and “private trials”.

    I dunno why a Kuhlifornia civil matter could not be tried before the bench, as are many in my experience. I know that in some jurisdictions, a criminal defendant can elect a bench trial, as well.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  134. ColoComment (2429fb) — 3/24/2020 @ 1:46 pm

    It would also help to see the mortality rate as compared to (a) the rate for infection v. hospitalization, and (b) infection v. minor symptoms and recovery w/o hospitalization.

    This might have some of that but it’s still rough. Infected/Serious/Deceased/Recovered. This is the slightly more sobering view.

    I’d also like to see stats exclusive of the top maybe 3 urban hotspots, to get an idea of what the typical rates are in areas with more “normal” residential density.

    I think the best I can find so far is by state.

    I’m open to persuasion that Plattsburg NY may need mandatory house-confinement on the same level as NYC, but I’m not there yet.

    I’m in a semi-rural area. I don’t see any reason I need the same level of lockdown as the largest urban area nearby and so far the governor has agreed.

    frosty (f27e97)

  135. Why is this person’s unrelenting vituperous comments tolerated? Especially in the utter absence of any substantive & responsive content?

    I don’t use any blocking script, ColoComment, so I see the same relentless badgering from Rags that you are witnessing. I have long believed that he is consistently been in violation of Patterico’s commenting rules. He is never officially reprimanded. I do commend the long time commenters for asking him to clean it up.

    Anymore if I see his name in the “recent comments” section at the upper right of the window I skip either the thread he is on or the whole site for a certain period of time. If I come back and he isn’t commenting, I try to contribute even though I usually have a contrary position to the majority.

    BuDuh (57252b)

  136. frosty (f27e97) — 3/24/2020 @ 3:41 pm

    Thank you for those links.
    I am nowhere near any level of technical expertise as a statistician (I can barely halve or double a recipe, if you have to know the truth about my math abilities), and I know that authorities are probably trying desperately to corral & report accurate stats. And that decisions have to be taken now in reliance on imperfect information.
    I just get impatient when an otherwise interesting and informative discussion devolves into the equivalent of some saying, “you want all the old people to die,” and others, “Are you really ready to spend $xxM to save each life?”

    It’s all so nonproductive.

    BuDuh (57252b) — 3/24/2020 @ 3:50 pm
    Yes. Thank you.

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  137. I try to contribute even though I usually have a contrary position to the majority.
    BuDuh (57252b) — 3/24/2020 @ 3:50 pm

    This is why I value your voice, DuDuh.

    felipe (023cc9)

  138. Wonderful news, mg.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  139. It’s a noble sentiment that Cuomo expresses, he’s willing to do whatever it takes to save lives, no matter how many lives it might cost. And the idea that there need be no trade-off between public health and the economic costs of public health, a succinct rebuttal to the idea that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Trump is an idiot for suggesting that he has a brilliant plan for resurrecting the economy on Easter Sunday which will put the original Resurrection to shame (which I have absolutely no doubt is specifically why he chose Easter as the date certain he shall perform his miracle) but to pretend that there need be no cost/benefit analysis when human lives are at stake is just as idiotic.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  140. #78

    I can tell you that in DC, New York and California the old people would kill everyone under 14, if it would buy them one extra week.

    Ordinarily I expect your comments to deliver reliably knee-jerk MAGA hackery. But Trump being a septuagenarian New Yorker, this time you may be onto something.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  141. But Trump being a septuagenarian New Yorker, this time you may be onto something.

    You must not have gotten the message, Trump has moved out of New York. He’s no longer a resident. And its hilarious that you turn my comment into a knee-jerk attack on Trump. Y’know like Democrats and Lefties have been doing every SINGLE Day, for the last 5 years. The Left-wing capacity to chant party-lines every day like stupid parrots is always amazing.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  142. Always good to see the T-rump cult in full voice, and watch them again demonstrate how far from thinking Americans it is possible to stray.

    And how like T-rump they become in their reflexive use of lies.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  143. 56. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/24/2020 @ 11:50 am

    We need time to produce ventilators, respirators, and research treatments.

    Ford apparently is making ventilators out of F-150 parts. Not as flashy as Tesla, but I bet it has a huge impact. I’ll definitely be thinking about both Dan Patrick and Ford as I make decisions in voting and purchases.

    There were two letters yesterday in the Wall Street Journal about possible sources of ventilators.

    First, machines used for anesthesia for elective surgery (which has largely been cancelled) can also be used as plain ventilators.

    Second, in the 1960s they had ventilators that required no electricity. They could be used, or manufactured, again.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-ways-to-increase-the-ventilator-supply-11584997426

    In the 1960s, when I was a medical resident, the common ventilator was the Bird Mark 7, a simple green box hat is cheap, treats respiratory failure and functions without electricity. Today these could be manufactured in their thousands for a small fraction of the cost of more sophisticated ventilators.

    Something like I describe would be adequate to support the lung function of most patients, who otherwise would have no ventilator and would die. The low-tech ventilators would be like the Higgins boats of World War II. As most respiratory therapists are already employed dealing with the seasonal requirements of influenza, physicians assistants and nurses newly trained in respiratory therapy could “run” the ventilators. They would mirror the 90-day wonders of World War II.

    Physicians using telemedicine, not available during World War II, could provide oversight of the ventilator settings and the resultant blood gases. Since this is a war, let us model our response on an already proven strategy.

    Joel Spalter, M.D.

    Fayetteville, Ark.

    There are thousands of available operating-room anesthesia machines, each of which has advanced ventilator capabilities. These ventilators can be immediately available for use by forgoing elective operations, and set up essentially anywhere there is oxygen and a power supply.

    Michael Mangione, M.D.

    Pittsburgh

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  144. Good to see you, Sammy Finkelman. There was concern about your absence from the blog, due to you living in NY (Brookly, right?).

    Dana (4fb37f)

  145. They made projections last week that assumed that there were 11 cases for every case that tested positive.

    Another source estimated the true number iof infections wa anywhere from 3 to 300 times as many positive tests

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-data.html

    “We don’t know if we are failing to capture infections by a factor of three or 300,” writes Stanford’s disease prevention expert, John P.A. Ioannidis, in a must-read piece in the authoritative science and medicine website Stat (itself a must-read).

    Here is the “must read” piece:

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data

    Projecting the Diamond Princess mortality rate onto the age structure of the U.S. population, the death rate among people infected with Covid-19 would be 0.125%. But since this estimate is based on extremely thin data — there were just seven deaths among the 700 infected passengers and crew — the real death rate could stretch from five times lower (0.025%) to five times higher (0.625%). It is also possible that some of the passengers who were infected might die later, and that tourists may have different frequencies of chronic diseases — a risk factor for worse outcomes with SARS-CoV-2 infection — than the general population. Adding these extra sources of uncertainty, reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%.

    It gets worse.

    The old coronovirua may have a high case fatality rate.

    However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes. In fact, such “mild” coronaviruses infect tens of millions of people every year, and account for 3% to 11% of those hospitalized in the U.S. with lower respiratory infections each winter.

    These “mild” coronaviruses may be implicated in several thousands of deaths every year worldwide, though the vast majority of them are not documented with precise testing. Instead, they are lost as noise among 60 million deaths from various causes every year.

    Although successful surveillance systems have long existed for influenza, the disease is confirmed by a laboratory in a tiny minority of cases. In the U.S., for example, so far this season 1,073,976 specimens have been tested and 222,552 (20.7%) have tested positive for influenza. In the same period, the estimated number of influenza-like illnesses is between 36,000,000 and 51,000,000, with an estimated 22,000 to 55,000 flu deaths.

    Note the uncertainty about influenza-like illness deaths: a 2.5-fold range, corresponding to tens of thousands of deaths. Every year, some of these deaths are due to influenza and some to other viruses, like common-cold coronaviruses.

    When someone has a cold, we don’t actually test to see what pathogen it is. Maybe this should change.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  146. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/25/2020 @ 10:10 am

    Good to see you, Sammy Finkelman. There was concern about your absence from the blog, due to you living in NY (Brooklyn, right?).

    Yes, Brooklyn, which is almost the epicenter of it.

    If I have it, it progresses much more slowly than they say.

    It seems to get better and worse. Worse during sleep at night. I take Vitamin C rose hips, a touch of zinc, folic acid, pantothenic acid, a touch of zinc, a sip of wine when I remember, (alcohol kills the virus remember) crushed pineapple or juice from pineapple slices, not eating much, sleeping more – cycle is off , spitting out mucus after taking vitamins.

    I’ve had a sore throat from at least a week before last Friday. Synagogue has been closed since Friday – before that we were praying in the big shul all week on the grounds there was separation. I said at one point we already had it – not everybody. Someone laughed. I don’t know.

    The vitamins may be stabilizing the situation but not curing it.

    It may be centered in Brooklyn but it moved in from the suburbs among the more modern Orthodox Jewish community. I’m semi-isolated but there are an awful lot of gatherings.

    A certain 50=yea old Lawrence Garbuz, (I did hear but with no details that he had some kind of preexisting condition) may be the index case – he had to have to gotten it in the United States, It broke into the Thursday March 5. Who knows? I may be only six degrees of separation from Lawrence Garbuz. Or it is someone else.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/nyregion/coronavirus-new-rochelle-pneumonia.html

    I read the papers, which get delivered.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  147. I have dried crusted blood inside my nostrils. Sometimes with a little bit of green. I don’t know what this means. Could be a good sign. I haven’t seen this before in this infection. I have seen this before.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  148. I have dried crusted blood inside my nostrils.

    I’ve definitely had that many times in my life.

    I haven’t seen this before in this infection. I have seen this before.

    I’m really confused about how to interpret these two sentences in juxtoposition.

    I suggest you read about NY physician Dr. Zev Zelenko’s protocol for coronavirus, both how to treat and under which criteria he begins treatment. I think his protocol, the length of time he uses it for (not very long!), and the dosages and three medications used (including zinc) make a ton of sense and I believe his results, while not yet subject to a controlled trial, are far from spurious. Perhaps it will get you and others to thinking where and how you’d get treated if you do come down with it.

    Stay as healthy as possible! I also would suggest melatonin, which has shown promising results against several other viruses, including SARS-CoV (predecessor to the current SARS-CoV-2).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  149. Sammy, are you using any antihistamine? The blood means your nostrils are too dry, which is what antihistamines can do.

    Whether or not you are using them, start using saline spray or saline gel inside your nostrils to keep them moist. (Vaseline also, but I believe saline is MD reccomended.)

    Refuah shelemah.

    Kishnevi (7eee2b)

  150. Sammy, are you using any antihistamine? The blood means your nostrils are too dry, which is what antihistamines can do.

    Not using any antihistamine that I know of unless some of the vitamins are antihistamines, It started later.

    I also got, earlier, an occasional senation of dry mouth when waking up.

    Could it be the folic acid?

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  151. Sammy,

    I am so glad to see you. I am sorry you are sick. Do you have a doctor you can call or a help line at a nearby hospital? Most doctors are helping people through phone apps and some hospitals let you talk to nurses. PLEASE DO THAT NOW.

    I am not a doctor but some of the things I hope they would check you for are:

    1. Strep throat, that can cause throat pain and needs an antibiotic.
    2. Sinusitis, which can cause green nasal discharge and bleeding.
    3. Allergies, that can cause a stuffy nose and dry scratchy throat.
    4. Flu and other viruses, ditto.
    5. Coronavirus, especially because of where you live.

    DRJ (15874d)

  152. Especially call if you have a fever, Sammy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  153. See a doctor, Sammy. Not Dr. Zev Zelenko.

    nk (1d9030)

  154. But I’m guessing that it’s your central heat (too dry) and the fact that you’re in it more than usual due to the lockdown, so don’t be too scared until you have talked to a doctor.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. Sammy, sorry you’re sick. I hope you get better soon.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

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