Patterico's Pontifications

3/23/2020

Negotiations To Continue On Coronavirus Stimulus Package

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

Unsurprising. Via Axios:

A procedural vote on Senate Republicans’ $1.8 trillion Phase 3 stimulus package failed on Monday for the second time in less than 24 hours.

The big picture: Patience is wearing thin on Capitol Hill as talks over providing desperately needed aid to Americans and businesses continue to stall.

Republican senators, many of whom have been more frustrated in the last 24 hours…are accusing Democrats of playing politics during a national crisis.

Meanwhile, Democrats continue to argue that the Senate GOP’s legislation is a corporate slush fund that doesn’t do enough to help American workers. This has driven House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to draft her own version of a Phase 3 bill.

Weighing in:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: “I’d like to see Senate Democrats tell small business employees in their states who are literally being laid off every day that they’re filibustering relief that will keep people on the payroll because Democrats’ special interest friends want to squeeze employers while they’re vulnerable.”

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer: “The bottom line is very simple. We are fighting for a better bill, because this bill will have an effect for a very long time.”

Pelosi: “The Senate Republicans’ bill, as presented, put corporations first, not workers and families. Today, House Democrats will unveil a bill that takes responsibility for the health, wages and well-being of America’s workers: the Take Responsibility for Workers and Families Act.”

We are in the best of hands.

PS: Politicians not being helpeful:

PPS: Surprising headlines from the New York Times and The Washington Post:

nyt

wapo

wapo2

–Dana

75 Responses to “Negotiations To Continue On Coronavirus Stimulus Package”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. Congress rarely has the upper hand in these battles. See the last time Schumer & Pelosi tried to hold up a spending bill. They lost. To Trump.

    Best thing the Dems can do is hang tight and win the Senate in November. They are doing their best to fail at that.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  3. The Republican bill had $500 billion for loans at the say so of the Secretary of the Treasury. Details regarding loans would be kept secret for six months. When asked Trump said it would be possible that the Trump organization would get loans and people knew he owned hotels when they elected him.

    So yeah, I think the initial R proposal was sub optimal. In a crisis some people see opportunity.

    Victor (4355e3)

  4. Thank you, Victor.

    nk (1d9030)

  5. “Negotiations.” Meh.

    “Vee beeleeve peece is dat hand.” – SoS Henry Kissinger, 10/26/72

    Except it wasn’t.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. Ooh, how I hope Biden appoints Cy Vance as Deputy Attorney General. Russian collusion? Ukraine? You wish, orange. Try RICO.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. Leftists upset they cannot attach the Communist Green Deal to the Wuhan Virus bill.

    On the bright side, my local supermarket is mostly full now with meats, veggies, canned goods, etc. All they seem to be out of is paper goods and the sanitizer wipes/ hand sanitizers that people are going crazy over.

    NJRob (f959bc)

  8. I don’t get why they just don’t strip the slush fund out, do $1.3T, or $800B… and if they need a phase 4, or 5, or 22, then do it. They agree on something like 80%, grow up and take that as a win, then move on to the next thing on the priority list. Of all the “not rocket science” parts, this is the most.

    Yeah, it’s politics, but arguing about the color of the drapes when the house is on fire is poor timing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)


  9. tedfrank
    @tedfrank

    You can tell Democrats have a laser focus on helping Americans and the economy.
    [attached excerpt showing requirement of Corporate Board Diversity]

    __ _

    Diversity, abortion, solar panels and climate change, the things that will minimize the pandemic!

    They want to do to corporate America the same thing they did to college administrations

    harkin (b64479)

  10. @8 Yes, this.

    Nic (896fdf)

  11. Suppose this appropriate bill never passes. (Two earlier ones are already passed and borrowing and spending and having whatever consequences — good or bad, intended or otherwise — that legislation has.) What then?

    Shut down the government, as we do so often in Septembers when budget appropriation negotiations break down? So, all non-essential federal workers stay home? All parks and monuments and tours close? All paper pushing for patents and tax appeals etc stall? Office buildings go dark and parking lots empty while federal bureaucrats and the citizens (and non-citizens) they are supposed to help all stay home?

    Isn’t staying home what is supposed to be happening anyhow?

    Is a failure to spend a trillion really the worst that can happen?

    pouncer (df6448)

  12. The Hill reports that House majority whip James Clyburn told the Democrat members in a conference call last Thursday that the stimulus bill “is a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.” So yeah, it appears that Dems are hell-bent on not letting this crisis go to waste.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  13. Does anyone remember what the oversights were for the TARP bailouts? How much free reign did Congress in 2007 give GWB?

    Time123 (b87ded)

  14. AOC is gaslighting here, per usual.

    Stupidity is a better explanation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. I added screenshots of a few headlines from the Wapo and New York Times because they are surprising in their accuracy.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  16. Pelosi demands these inclusions:

    -Publication of corporate pay statistics by race and race statistics for all corporate boards

    -A bail out on all current debt at the Postal Service

    -Required early voting

    -Required same day voter registration

    -Provisions on official time for union collective bargaining

    -Full offset of airline emissions by 2025

    -Publication and reporting of greenhouse gas statistics for individual flights

    -Retirement plans for community newspaper employees

    -Federal $15 minimum wage

    -Permanent paid leave

    The provisions will apply to the companies and business rescued by bill.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  17. Pelosi continuing to show where her priorities are during a crisis. But it’s best to ignore that and continue to bash the President. Give the left exclusive power to shape the world as they see fit.

    NJRob (f959bc)

  18. Turtle Soup and whine.

    Yummy, eh?!

    Treasury’s power over $500 billion loan program becomes key sticking point in coronavirus aid bill – source, https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/22/treasury-coronavirus-sente-corporate-loan/

    The $500 billion corporate slush fund in the hands on SoT Ned Ryerson is the hang up.

    “Woooooo, bing! That’s a doozy!” – Ned Ryerson [Stephen Tobolowsky] ‘Groundhog Day’ 1993

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. The Democrats want money targeted at their wish list of causes headed by their favored donors. The Republicans want money they can parcel out directly to their favored donors and to Trump companies. The public gets the crumbs.

    DRJ (15874d)

  20. More from Pelosi’s wish list:

    1) “Unprecedented collective bargaining powers for unions”
    2) “Increased fuel emissions standards for airlines”
    3) “Expansion of wind and solar tax credits”

    I guess they’re all working toward fulfilling that vision majority whip James Clyburn talked about.

    Neither side has clean hands.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  21. And the band played on! Mcconnel we need to bail out wall street an big corporations. Schumer we need to bail out the workers and the poor.

    rota (778eaa)

  22. Had no idea they were going to make the Green New Deal socialist takeover part of the virus response.

    Never let a crisis go to waste”
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  23. Doug Jones got to borrow the hall pass usually reserved for Debbie Stabenow (he was a yes vote with the Rs).

    urbanleftbehind (0ffb16)

  24. @3

    The Republican bill had $500 billion for loans at the say so of the Secretary of the Treasury. Details regarding loans would be kept secret for six months. When asked Trump said it would be possible that the Trump organization would get loans and people knew he owned hotels when they elected him.

    So yeah, I think the initial R proposal was sub optimal. In a crisis some people see opportunity.

    Victor (4355e3) — 3/23/2020 @ 11:30 am

    Treasury Secretary would still have to abide by existing regulations, which to my knowledge didn’t exist when the last time a bailout package was done (2009/10??)

    Additionally, why should Trump-owned hotels be treated any differently than other hotel companies?

    Yes, it’d be outrageous if Trump-owned hotels get a sweetheart deal that companies like Marriott couldn’t get, but at this point I don’t think we know that.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  25. I had been unclear as to why the President believes that the cruise industry, of all things, would be a “prime candidate” for a bailout. Then I started reading up on it…

    This report lists a few reasons why this isn’t the best idea:

    Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama. Royal Caribbean is incorporated in Liberia. Norwegian Cruise Line is incorporated in Bermuda. These three cruise companies combine to make up around 70 percent or more of the global cruise ship market, depending on how you measure it. And while they operate offices in Miami, Florida, they are all incorporated in countries with very different labor, tax, and other laws than those of the US. Their ships fly flags of these countries, too. What’s more, a large number of cruise ship employees are from Europe, the Caribbean islands, and the Philippines

    Further, there is the issue of paying, or not paying taxes:

    Carnival, the biggest of the three, said in its most recent annual filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that it is made up of “primarily foreign corporations engaged in the business of operating cruise ships in international transportation.” Its Holland America Princess Alaska Tours subsidiary is the company’s only truly domestic operation, so that is subject to federal and state income tax. But that’s about it.

    President Trump has suggested that Carnival vessels could be used as floating hospitals, since they aren’t being used right now. Although cruise ships have been used as a resource to shelter the public during hurricanes and post-floods, medical professional have said these ships are inadequate to house coronavirus patients, and “given the layout of cruises makes them especially vulnerable to disease spread.” Think: norovirus.

    For health emergencies, cruise ships are a “worst case scenario,” said Tara C. Smith, a professor of epidemiology at Kent State University who has written about the health challenges of cruise travel.

    “All of the rooms are very tiny. They’re difficult to get in and out of,” she said. “Even if you’re not thinking about Covid-19, you still need to think about infection control.”

    Ms. Smith said that transmission of normal infectious agents like MRSA, which is common in hospitals, could introduce other kinds of outbreaks on ships that might not have trained janitorial workers familiar with hospital procedures.

    So why is Trump pushing for a bailout (and to use them as floating hospitals)? Maybe this has something to do with it:

    The potential public-private partnership with Carnival has also prompted concerns about how Mr. Trump might be leveraging past business relationships in a public health crisis.

    The president has talked to Mr. [Micky] Arison [chairman of Carnival Corporation, the world’s largest cruise operator] a handful of times in recent months as the cruise industry has fallen on hard times; they spoke in particular about yet another Carnival ship, the Westerdam, which was turned away from several ports in Asia over coronavirus fears in mid-February. The ship ended up docking in Cambodia. Mr. Trump spoke to Mr. Arison twice before the docking, according to people familiar with the calls, and at least once before their conversation this week. One passenger tested positive for the coronavirus, but that was later said to be in error.

    Mr. Trump and Mr. Arison have been associates for over a decade, and their businesses have at times overlapped. There was a 2005 “Apprentice Legend Cruise” from New York to the Caribbean that included cast members from the show. And Carnival sponsored “The New Celebrity Apprentice” reality series, which was broadcast in 2017.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  26. Yeah… I find that the bailout requests for the Cruise line a wee bit strange.

    Same with the Airlines.

    Why couldn’t they going to Chapter 11 bankruptcy and renegotiate their debt?

    The bigger issue, imo, are the furloughed employees.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  27. Don’t bail out corporations, so when the crisis passes the workers won’t have a company to back too. Permanent handouts. What’s not to like.

    LYNN HARGROVE (740caa)

  28. If politicians are indeed over-reacting, I think it’s safe to say that politicians have the most to gain and the least to lose by over-reacting. That’s true of every crisis, real or manufactured, that government steps in to address.

    Gryph (08c844)

  29. Don’t bail out corporations, so when the crisis passes the workers won’t have a company to back too. Permanent handouts. What’s not to like.

    LYNN HARGROVE,

    While there is a point of truth in what you say when Americans are employed by the companies, that isn’t necessarily the case with cruise liners:

    The Caribbean, the Philippines, and Eastern Europe are major sources of cruise-ship employees, and only about 5% of cruise-ship employees are American citizens or residents, Walker said. Americans don’t take the worst jobs, and tend to work instead as ship directors or entertainers, he added.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  30. Re: foreign flagging of cruise ships.

    https://www.cruisejobfinder.com/fm/cruises/foreign-flagged-cruise-ships.php

    ColoComment (2429fb)

  31. Go tell James Carville to get dat boah Clyburn in line. Wasn’t Clyburn the savior of the D party at the beginning of the month, now he might be the curse.

    urbanleftbehind (0ffb16)

  32. @29

    F*cking Democrats…

    https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1242100862488633345

    Colonel Haiku (ac91f9) — 3/23/2020 @ 2:03 pm

    I echo that…

    Add that to my bucket of why I won’t vote for Democrats. My bucket is now:
    -Kavanuagh fiasco
    -Covington ordeal
    -Democrats not letting COVID-19 event go to waste

    Hate is such a strong word… but, I cannot describe to you of my contempt I have for Democrats I have now…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  33. Political Gritty
    @PoliticalGritty
    Today, my six-year-old daughter Eunice asked me what #Pelosi & #Schumer are doing to help the country through #COVIDー19, and I showed her their proposal to create

    ..a new program requiring airlines to provide passengers with info on greenhouse gas
    __ _

    NH
    @TwoQuoque
    .
    I just read this to my five-year-old son Wolf, and he said “I’m so relieved to hear this. What is the purpose of survive the virus only to have the world end before we can see AOC as president?”
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  34. Dan Sweeney
    @Daniel_Sweeney
    ·
    Some pretty big news: @GovRonDeSantis just announced that people flying into Florida from NY, NJ, WA or CA must enter a 14-day self-isolation.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  35. This guy was saying on the radio – now would be a good time to fix the roads.

    mg (8cbc69)

  36. I hate when people pretend their kid has set up their straw man question. I’ve worked with literally thousands of kids at this point in my career. His 6 year old didn’t say that. Also, why did he name is poor daughter Eunice? I mean, at least he didn’t spell it in a stupid way, but Eunice? Really? Poor kid.

    Nic (896fdf)

  37. I don’t get why they just don’t strip the slush fund out

    Because it’s not about any slush fund, if there is a slush fund. It’s about getting a long list of Democrat “wants” into the bill, such as new solar credits and carbon rules. Pelosi got the Senate Democrats to hold the bill up so that she could stuff its carcass.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. That whole process, as larded up as it is from study to shovel to striping is still full speed ahead in my state. The road profilers should be out as well, once this 2 inch if snow melts.

    urbanleftbehind (0ffb16)

  39. Why couldn’t they going to Chapter 11 bankruptcy and renegotiate their debt?

    Why should any business have to do that due to a force majeure situation? Businesses that make bad decisions deserve BK, but this is like getting hit by an asteroid. Besides, one group they would certainly stiff in any Chapter 11 would be the people who bought tickets to fly from about March 11 to the end of the year. Any promises of honoring them later would be gone in BK.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. *March 1

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. The roadapple doesn’t fall far from the broken down nag… https://static.pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/christine_pelosi_rand_paul_3-23-20.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. His 6 year old didn’t say that. Also, why did he name is poor daughter Eunice?
    __ _

    In case you missed it, liberals have been posting bogus thoughtful PC quotes from they young children for a while now.

    Those two were sarcastic parodies placed by conservatives.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  43. Example:

    MatthewDicks
    @MatthewDicks
    ·
    Feb 7, 2018
    My five-year old son just came downstairs in his footy pajamas and said, “Donald Trump is disgusting.”

    “Why do you say that?” I asked.

    “Just listen to him, Dad.”
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  44. @44 I always hate it, regardless of the politics of the person doing it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  45. https://mobile.twitter.com/DougAndres/status/1242189330061369346

    The Pravda Times went full Orwellian.

    NJRob (f959bc)

  46. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/opinion/coronavirus-bailout-mcconnell-congress.html

    And for those rushing to the defense of the communist Times, here’s the article.

    Now I wait for those same people to dismiss it as a mere OpEd.

    NJRob (f959bc)

  47. 46 – “I always hate it, regardless of the politics of the person doing it.”

    I’m totally the opposite. Humor is a great balm in tendentious times and ridicule of dishonest tools sometimes gets them to see how ludicrous they sound. It’s also indicative of how gullible they presume the target audience.
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  48. Speaking of the Times, they are now giving lessons to the Chinese in propaganda technique.

    NYTimes Feb 26:

    Let’s Call It Trumpvirus
    __ _

    Josh Rogin
    @joshrogin

    March 23

    Chinese embassy in Paris pushing the #TrumpPandemic hashtag in French.

    https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1242143680846270465?s=20
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  49. Yesterday it was ‘why so sensitive? It’s China virus! don’t be such a SJW’
    Today it’s “OMG OMG please don’t call it Trump virus it hurts our feelings!’

    Far as I’m concerned both labels fit. Both share responsibility for their failure making things worse.

    Team D is being terrible about relief, but Trump’s hotels shouldn’t benefit from the slush fund either. Trump can dismiss the corruption concerns but they are legitimate. He made this worse… he shouldn’t profit from that. Just add a line saying ‘nothing Trump owns can get Trump Pandemic relief money’.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  50. Team D is being terrible about relief, but Trump’s hotels shouldn’t benefit from the slush fund either. Trump can dismiss the corruption concerns but they are legitimate. He made this worse… he shouldn’t profit from that. Just add a line saying ‘nothing Trump owns can get Trump Pandemic relief money’.

    I’m actually not vehemently against a Trump business getting relief, well personally eff him, but as long as there are publically trackable criteria that any like business can access, I have less of a problem with it, theoretically. But still, eff that guy.

    If the Munch can give out money by the dump truck load now, and maybe explain who and why sometime later in the year, that’s just a bad look. Half a trillion dollars weighs 5,000 tons if made of $100 bills, so that’s a fleet of dump trucks. Can a bundle just bounce out in my driveway, I’ll give it back in 6 months, I promise.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. Connection Obsession

    Obsession, they just got so much
    Obsession, but all they want to do, is to put it to you

    Everything is going in the wrong direction
    Pelosi needs some more hot pork injections
    Give her a shot for a bad rabies infection
    But I don’t know, if the foam will slow

    Obsession, they just got so much
    Obsession, but all they want to do, is to put it to you

    The Dems should get a very close inspection
    We wonder why it is that they elect ’em
    There’s never been a more motley collection
    And we all know, as a group they blow

    Obsession, they just got so much
    Obsession, but all they want to do, is to put it to you

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  52. I’m agin it.

    There needs to be some MUCH clearer thinking on who really needs what money, and how it will be targeted and when.

    The whole deal stinks.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  53. “ Far as I’m concerned both labels fit.”

    Disagree, the virus is from China and they arrested doctors who warned of the danger.

    Implying Trump’s actions are equal to this is nonsense.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  54. Disagree, the virus is from China and they arrested doctors who warned of the danger.

    Implying Trump’s actions are equal to this is nonsense.
    _

    harkin (b64479) — 3/23/2020 @ 6:13 pm

    I don’t know if they are equal… maybe Trump’s actions are worse actually. But it doesn’t matter. He is horribly screwing this up. The hardship we will face is Trump’s legacy. Fighting it only serves the purpose of making sure everyone knows. We can see this is why Trump is trying so hard to call this the China Virus. And by all means call it that if you like. Every day there will be a new outrage about how this is the democrat’s fault. Even Trump blamed the problem on Biden. Can’t do that and then not expect the country to notice who the actual president is.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  55. “ I don’t know if they are equal… maybe Trump’s actions are worse ”

    Once again. Virus from China, allowing wet animal markets, arresting doctors who tried to warn, shutting down on news reporters seeking to do same. I still disagree. Trump has made both helpful and damaging statements but to compare those with willful and menacing actions towards their own people and by extension to the outside world, nonsense.

    “ Every day there will be a new outrage about how this is the democrat’s fault. Even Trump blamed the problem on Biden.”

    If you mean Fault for the virus spread I haven’t seen anything blaming Democrats, just hundreds of blame Trump stories.

    If you mean fault for delay on the bill for completely unrelated political reasons, those are dead on.
    _

    harkin (467f23)

  56. Gizmodo
    @Gizmodo
    To recover from the covid-19 pandemic, we need a Green New Deal http://gizmo.do/cNGnZdD

    https://twitter.com/Gizmodo/status/1242265833881165824?s=20
    __ _

    The responses are worth the click.
    _

    harkin (467f23)

  57. Impeach congress.

    mg (8cbc69)

  58. We could save about 400 young lives every work hour by shutting down America’s abortion clinics.

    mg (8cbc69)

  59. Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/23/2020 @ 6:22 pm

    I don’t know if they are equal… maybe Trump’s actions are worse actually

    I know the 2 minutes of hate is fun, unloads stress, etc. but running it 24×7 isn’t healthy.

    frosty (f27e97)

  60. Once again. Virus from China, allowing wet animal markets, arresting doctors who tried to warn, shutting down on news reporters seeking to do same. I still disagree. Trump has made both helpful and damaging statements but to compare those with willful and menacing actions towards their own people and by extension to the outside world, nonsense.

    harkin (467f23) — 3/23/2020 @ 7:59 pm

    Harkin, you have to be wrong about China. Trump told us months ago that Xi was doing a great job and that Corona-virus would end very well for us. If you really think otherwise you should write to president Trump and tell him he’s wrong.

    President Donald Trump on Friday praised Chinese President Xi Jinping’s response to the Wuhan coronavirus, predicting his foreign counterpart “will be successful” in combating the outbreak that has killed hundreds of people.“Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus,” Trump wrote on Twitter.

    “He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone,” the president continued.

    “Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!”

    Trump last week insisted the coronavirus would “have a very good ending for us,” as Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar deemed it a public health emergency and the World Health Organization declared a global public health emergency.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  61. More seriously, there are a lot of things that could have been done and weren’t for this.

    -Order everyone with an a-typical respiratory infection tested for CV in Dec. This would have likely exposed the problems with the tests.
    -Order travelers from impacted regions to be tested and Quarantined
    -Had medical preparedness checked for a worst/moderate case scenario at US hospitals. From this we’d likely have identified gaps in our material availability.
    -Prepared the public for what we might need to do so that all levels of government could be aligned. Get the issues and concerns out early.

    Basically many of the sames things we’re doing now, but with 8 additional weeks to react.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  62. My local Jewel employs differently-abled people to round up the carts and do other odd jobs. One of them lives near me. I just stepped out for a cigarette and saw her limping to work. One and a half miles.

    F*** you, Cocaine Mitch! F*** your Chinese wife Secretary of Transportation! F*** your rich jerkoff cronies you’re steering the trillions of payoffs! F*** all you Trumpublican dung beetles sucking up the orange poop! F*** you with a barbwire dildo!

    nk (1d9030)

  63. steering the trillions of payoffs *to*

    nk (1d9030)

  64. Time123 (69b2fc) — 3/24/2020 @ 6:28 am

    Order everyone with an a-typical respiratory infection tested for CV in Dec. This would have likely exposed the problems with the tests.

    Ordered everyone in the US to get tested for covid in December? Would that even have been possible? Had they identified it well enough by then to even attempt widespread testing? How would an “order” by the federal government to test for a Chinese virus in December be received when China didn’t declare an outbreak until Jan 20? I agree that it would have exposed the problem with the testing but I don’t think it is realistic for that to have happened in December.

    Order travelers from impacted regions to be tested and Quarantined

    This wasn’t going to happen in Dec. This was pushed back against when it happened. I’m not trying to make a case against impeachment but there is no way a travel lockdown would have happened during Dec.

    Had medical preparedness checked for a worst/moderate case scenario at US hospitals. From this we’d likely have identified gaps in our material availability.

    Prepared the public for what we might need to do so that all levels of government could be aligned. Get the issues and concerns out early.

    This would have made a lot of sense. But no one really took this seriously. Two months ago you were a crazy prepper for discussing exactly what you are talking about here.

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. I’m telling you guys, atypical non-flu pneumonic symptoms? No clue where it’s coming from? We had CoViD-19 right here in America months before we realized what it was. No doubt in my mind about it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  66. Frosty, let me clairify.

    Order everyone hospitalized for an a-typical respiratory infection tested for CV in Dec. This would have likely exposed the problems with the tests. I believe the CDC can order/recommend this. A week before Christmas a friend of mine who lives in China flew home. She spent the week after Christmas in the hospital for Pneumonia. Her doctors thought it was very strange given her general health.

    This wasn’t going to happen in Dec. This was pushed back against when it happened. I’m not trying to make a case against impeachment but there is no way a travel lockdown would have happened during Dec.

    I’m not saying a travel ban. I’m saying you fly in from China in late December you have to be tested for CV and QT until the test comes back. If we couldn’t do this exactly this we could have at least sampled some % of people.

    Had medical preparedness checked for a worst/moderate case scenario at US hospitals. From this we’d likely have identified gaps in our material availability.

    Prepared the public for what we might need to do so that all levels of government could be aligned. Get the issues and concerns out early.

    This would have made a lot of sense. But no one really took this seriously. Two months ago you were a crazy prepper for discussing exactly what you are talking about here.

    Most of this would have been done between HHS and medical professionals, not normal people. And part of what leaders do, is lead. If instead of minimizing the risk the president had said “we’re doing an assessment of our preparedness in case this becomes a problem here. I’m asking local and state medical officials to coordinate with VP Pence to make sure we have the material we would need.” I think it would have gone a long way. You’re right, the people that hate Trump and pull a paycheck from hating Trump would have done what they do. But so what. It still would have provided useful information.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  67. Frosty, you’re right that all of that would have been hard in Dec. We could have started in Dec but a lot of that would have started after the first.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  68. Time123 (ea2b98) — 3/24/2020 @ 7:25 am

    I can’t argue with any of that. I do think the best we could have done is sampled some % of people but these quarantines are also only something that became reasonable after it was more obvious. I’m pessimistic that we’d have been able to do very much prior to Feb 1 other than restock the federal stockpiles of supplies and run interagency and federal/state preparedness exercises.

    I’m starting to get news about people I personally know in the hospital with this. I suspect this will be a tough week and I’m not looking forward to the one after that. I’d prefer to hear a lot more about testing to slow it down and efforts to keep the hospitals functioning.

    frosty (f27e97)

  69. It’s getting to where The Babylon Bee reflects reality better than the msm:

    Dems Worried Stimulus Bill Would Stimulate Economy

    https://babylonbee.com/news/dems-worried-stimulus-package-would-stimulate-economy
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  70. You might be right about what we would have to end up doing. In the industry I work in we set stretch goals for containment issues. Sorry to hear about your friends.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  71. 64… shelter in place… preferably an empty refrigerator!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. I have no problem with setting up relief for an impacted industry with suitable criteria. I have a big problem if specific businesses get specific help. So, if all hotels get help with global rules, fine. But if, say, Trump hotels are favored or disfavored, that would be a problem. The only specificity I would want to see would regard nationality. United Airlines gets help, Emirates doesn’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. The only specificity I would want to see would regard nationality.

    As someone who believes government should have a role in setting pro-social directions and sometimes specific goals for industry to promote national health and security (no, this isn’t a classic “small business” or “unlimited capitalism” position), I’d take that into consideration too.

    So, for one example, aside from the vast majority of workers on cruise ships not being American and cruise ships being foreign flagged, there’s also the question of should government spend taxpayer dollars to rescue an industry that may act as a disease petri dish and transmission system rolled into one?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)


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