Patterico's Pontifications

3/22/2020

About That Story Claiming DoJ Is Seeking Indefinite Detention of Americans

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:20 am



A story from Politico (cached link; no links for bullies!) is titled DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic.

The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the coronavirus spreads through the United States.

. . . .

The move has tapped into a broader fear among civil liberties advocates and Donald Trump’s critics — that the president will use a moment of crisis to push for controversial policy changes. Already, he has cited the pandemic as a reason for heightening border restrictions and restricting asylum claims. He has also pushed for further tax cuts as the economy withers, arguing that it would soften the financial blow to Americans. And even without policy changes, Trump has vast emergency powers that he could legally deploy right now to try and slow the coronavirus outbreak.

It sounds concerning, but I’ll hand the mic to Orin Kerr for a moment.

The “indefinite detention” claim comes from this part of the story:

In one of the documents, the department proposed that Congress grant the attorney general power to ask the chief judge of any district court to pause court proceedings “whenever the district court is fully or partially closed by virtue of any natural disaster, civil disobedience, or other emergency situation.”

The proposal would also grant those top judges broad authority to pause court proceedings during emergencies. It would apply to “any statutes or rules of procedure otherwise affecting pre-arrest, post-arrest, pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedures in criminal and juvenile proceedings and all civil process and proceedings,” according to draft legislative language the department shared with Congress. In making the case for the change, the DOJ document wrote that individual judges can currently pause proceedings during emergencies, but that their proposal would make sure all judges in any particular district could handle emergencies “in a consistent manner.”

I bolded the part that should be grabbing your attention, which the media has failed to emphasize. Individual judges already have these powers — because we’re only talking about situations where there are emergencies that close courts. The proposal is to give that authority to chief judges, so there is uniformity in the district. Kerr observes that giving the power to the chief judge that is currently held by individual judges could be a bad idea or it could be a good one, but it’s hardly the sweeping change that the article makes it out to be.

I’m very sensitive to the possibility of Trump grabbing power in a time of crisis. Believe me. I think he has an authoritarian mindset and has needed only a crisis to translate that mindset into action. I figured the crisis, if it happened, would be terrorism. But a pandemic works too. The point about a crisis is that the populace happily agrees to the power grabs, because crisis! and somebody has to do something! That’s what makes a crisis so dangerous to the body politic. I get the concerns. I really do.

I’m just not sure this is the premier example of a dangerous power grab we’re on guard against.

Here in Los Angeles, you’re typically brought before a judge within 48 hours. But that’s 48 hours when the courts are open. Arrested on a Thursday, or the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, you’re in until the following Monday. Now that has been extended to seven days, I am told. It’s not good for people who would otherwise be getting bail. But things change in emergencies. The courts are doing their best, but some things are getting paused.

This kind of thing could become dangerous, but I don’t think we’re there.

100 Responses to “About That Story Claiming DoJ Is Seeking Indefinite Detention of Americans”

  1. The (I think Federal) courthouse in Plano had to be closed the other day. You can’t get much done at a closed courthouse. I’m sure that, to the extent possible, work was transferred to sister courts. Also, Texas has done very well in digitizing records and making them available on line.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  2. “I think he has an authoritarian mindset and has needed only a crisis to translate that mindset into action.”

    Looks like he’s waiting for just the right moment to strike. And waiting…. The suspense is killing me.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  3. Oh, hell! T-rump don’t need no steeeenkin’ crisis to go all authorization on our butt-ox.

    He’s lied about his pretext for unilaterally and illegally imposing taxes (tariffs) on us; no problem for him!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  4. Thank you, Patterico for another great, informative, post. Everyone needs this information.

    felipe (023cc9)

  5. Already, he has cited the pandemic as a reason for heightening border restrictions and restricting asylum claims.

    The state of Hawaii has imposed 14 day quarantines on all new arrivals, including American citizens. Governors have assumed powers that would have been unheard of a year ago.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. I’m very sensitive to the possibility of Trump grabbing power in a time of crisis. Believe me. I think he has an authoritarian mindset and has needed only a crisis to translate that mindset into action. I figured the crisis, if it happened, would be terrorism. But a pandemic works too. The point about a crisis is that the populace happily agrees to the power grabs, because crisis! and somebody has to do something! That’s what makes a crisis so dangerous to the body politic. I get the concerns. I really do.

    Why do you fear Trump’s potential power grabs, yet not fear Newsom’s actual ones? Newsom has, for all intents and purposes, put 40 million people under house arrest. That seems authoritarian to me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. Not saying that I think it would be OK if Trump were to do the same things, just that the horse has left the barn.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. @6 Newsom’s overreach is kind of like the pirate code, more of a guideline. I drove out to my parent’s for lunch yesterday and there were A Ton of people going through my local drive through, there were also definitely people at the Best Buy and the Ulta that I passed. Traffic was basically Sunday morning traffic. His order is more reducing interaction than some kind of legally enforced requirement to stay home.

    Nic (896fdf)

  9. Why do you fear Trump’s potential power grabs, yet not fear Newsom’s actual ones? Newsom has, for all intents and purposes, put 40 million people under house arrest. That seems authoritarian to me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/22/2020 @ 11:18 am

    This is a question I’ve been asking of myself. No one here’s under any illusions that I despise Trump, consider him a racist and a fraud, and a selfish person who isn’t worthy to lead others.

    But it’s more than that. Trump’s unapologetic about his corruption. He didn’t lament that he sexually assaulted those women. He laughed about it. He isn’t ashamed of colluding to disrupt our 2020 election… he thinks that was quote “perfect” and laughs about it.

    Meanwhile most politicians seizing power beyond what they should will lament that they did so. Internally, some of them are delighted to take more power, I guess. I know partisans see their opponents this way. But I think most people actually value their role and slip into corruption, rather than marching there.

    We are in a crisis with the worst president in America’s history, whose handling of this crisis will cost so many more lives than it otherwise would have. We have to really be careful that Trump will overreact when trying to set right what he’s screwed up. We have to be careful that he doesn’t appreciate our values. This is a guy whose contempt for his supporters is absolute, bragging they would lick his boots after he murdered a man on Park Avenue.

    This is an excellent post and I have wanted to know more about it as it relates to my community as well.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  10. I’m very sensitive to the possibility of Trump grabbing power in a time of crisis…. I think he has an authoritarian mindset and has needed only a crisis to translate that mindset into action.

    OTOH he may simply admire their capacity to project power to shape events to their favor. Trump’s life history shows he struggles to do that w/mixed results. Unless it has been scripted for him [by behind the scenes types like TV’s Mark Burnett] he is mostly Fifth Avenue bully-bluster. Less authoritarian, more contrarian.

    For example:

    FEMA chief says Trump still hasn’t used Defense Production Act to get critical supplies for coronavirus fight

    “President Donald Trump has not yet made use of the Defense Production Act to get critical supplies to the front lines of the coronavirus fight, FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union.” – CNN

    An ‘authoritarian’ would have pulled the trigger on this days ago.

    Worry more about the likes of power-hungry minions, such as Stephen Miller, AG Barr, SoS Pompeo, Snowman Kudlow, SoT Mnuchin, Hope Hicks… or The Federalist Society, whispering sweet somethings in his ear pressing long sought policies.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. Newsome’s moves were definitely authoritarian, but right now I give him the same benefit of the doubt I gave Trump on the travel stops and border closures etc. It’s certainly a step up from ignoring illegal immigrants and people leaving defecation and used needles on the sidewalks while policing plastic straws.

    Newsome (and Trump) did what he thought best at the time. Plus the governor of a state has a right in regards to the protection of his state’s citizens in extraordinary circumstances. This is a product of federalism.

    This may seem in contrast to earlier comments i have made regarding the CA lockdown but my concerns in that thread and the article I linked to merely posed questions about going forward and minimizing damage and loss of rights in the long term.
    I also thought it was crazy that almost all the comments were concerned with the days’ news about the stock sells by Congress members. IMO a state lockdown was much bigger news.

    I’m just as leery of the long term situation coming but I also want them to gather accurate data as fast as possible as they move forward.

    What’s startling is that so many have allowed many more stories just as dishonest as this detention smear go completely without correction or (worse) spread to follow the ‘Any panic is good panic of it hurts Trump’ playbook. Anyone who has ever scoffed at the idea of Trump Derangement Syndrome or the biased mainstream media and still can’t see it in the virus coverage is beyond hope. There are news people everyday happily parroting Chinese propaganda because they think it will hurt Trump. There are a lot of people who learned nothing during the Hong Kong protest/NBA circus of kowtowing.

    One last thing regarding authoritarianism and restrictions on travel or on other freedoms we took for granted a few short weeks ago: it’s not going to be Trump supporters pushing for this after the virus (hopefully) is no longer a pandemic, it’s going to be people who embrace authoritarian means instead of persuasive political argument to realize their goals. I’m already seeing it from the AGW, anti-fracking, democratic socialist and UBI folks.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  12. Out shopping, I saw one blasé arsehole I wouldn’t mind if he was indefinitely detained. Seemed to want to get close to and want to talk to everyone, including the shopkeeper after he was asked not to by him.

    Make America Ordered Again (adac13)

  13. Why do you fear Trump’s potential power grabs, yet not fear Newsom’s actual ones? Newsom has, for all intents and purposes, put 40 million people under house arrest. That seems authoritarian to me.

    I went hiking in Malibu Creek State Park yesterday. Not bad for house arrest.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. NYC is banning access to parks as of four hours from now.

    Make America Ordered Again (adac13)

  15. A much needed post.

    Because of a lack of clarity surrounding Newsom’s order in California, some county sheriffs are unclear on how to enforce it. I don’t know how many counties are responding as such, but it wouldn’t be surprising if most did.

    The sheriff said Friday his post was in response to an immediate public reaction he received to Newsom’s order — what does a lockdown mean? Is the National Guard coming? Are you going to arrest people? He said state agencies didn’t provide any clarifications Friday on how to enforce the order.

    “Before the governor was done with the press conference, my phone was blowing up,” Dirkse said. One hindrance to enforcing the order are the different state and federal definitions for the 16 critical sectors that are exempted.

    “There is still ambiguity around what we are expected to enforce and what we are not,” Dirkse said, adding that the “governor does not want us to arrest people. … I don’t expect there will be any enforcement around it.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  16. When my oldest got braces, the orthodontist told him to never take off the bands — NO EXCEPTIONS !! — so he didn’t. His teeth hurt so much that he couldn’t sleep or eat, and he lost significant weight. Finally I called the orthodontist and explained that this was really hurting my child’s health. The staff said no problem, take them off. They said they tell every patient that but they never expect anyone to do it.

    Sometimes I feel like doctors (and politicians) don’t trust us enough to be honest with us.

    DRJ (15874d)

  17. NYC is banning access to parks as of four hours from now.

    They’ve been telling folks to separate and maintain distance, and it was warm in NYC this weekend, so guess what the 20-30 year olds were doing, when NYC has hit the exponential growth curve. Most people were being courteous, but it’s always the small group of d-bags that think all of this is silly, and they’ll be fine, and if olds die, so be it, you’ve seen that mindset on here.

    People’s actions have consequences, not always on them.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  18. “I went hiking in Malibu Creek State Park yesterday. Not bad for house arrest.”
    Patterico (115b1f) — 3/22/2020 @ 12:35 pm

    Then you violated the order. Next, are you going to fly out to Daytona Beach and get your party on?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  19. 15. And I’m the guy who doesn’t take social distancing seriously enough? SMDH…

    Gryph (08c844)

  20. I don’t think we’re there either yet…but we’re on our way.

    Gryph (08c844)

  21. If Malibu Creek State Park is anything like where I went hiking in So. Cal. yesterday, there are not very many people to contend with. If one does passes another on the trail, it is rare, and parties make sure to step a very good distance aside to let the other pass. Mostly, there is just you and nature.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  22. In Greece, Spain and Italy, it is total Occupation-style lockdown, with a fine of 100 Euros for just being out in public to 1,000 Euros for resisting a police order to go back home.

    nk (1d9030)

  23. 23. Oh, I see. He engaged in behavior that the elites approve of. Gotcha.

    Gryph (08c844)

  24. Self isolation for thee but not for me.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  25. But they have NHS. Greece, Spain, and Italy.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Malibu Creek State Park is big and wide open, but unless our good host lives within hiking or biking distance of it he probably drove there. Maybe stopped to get gas, or some take out from the Mexican cafe at the end of Las Virgenes Rd., or saw a friend there and chatted. Touched several surfaces. I dunno. Multiply that by millions who think similarly.

    This is the point of a lockdown.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  27. 29. This is the nominal point of a lockdown. It is also why lockdowns don’t work. Even if Pat did hike or bike there, there almost has to be a non-zero number of individuals that did and do drive there.

    Gryph (08c844)

  28. Hmm, we always wonder where the dumb comes from, whether it’s being an active member, or a useful idiot. Good job, you know who you are.

    Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf dismissed the notion of an impending national lockdown or quarantine in the U.S. during an interview on Fox News Sunday morning.

    After saying that he’s been contacted numerous times about text messages and screenshots warning of a national lockdown or a national quarantine, Wolf said the messages are “absolutely false” and that it’s “part of a disinformation campaign.”

    “What we know — whether it’s Russia or whether it’s other cyber actors — they like to sow discord on any controversial issue,” Wolf said. “So, it doesn’t just have to be elections. It can be any issue. And we’re seeing that now with the coronavirus.”

    Wolf went on to urge Americans to not believe or spread the rumors and to get information from state and federal officials.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  29. 23… posting a link to the “dog trainer” may not be too effective, but it is hilarious.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Agree about hiking within walking distance of your home but that’s not practical for some.

    At least be thankful if your local park or open area is not crowded. A friend told me today she was at a Natomas Park along the American River in Folsom and said it was so crowded it looked like some kind of festival was going on.

    I’ve just been walking on my fairly open large lot subdivision in the Mother Lode. I passed less than 10 other walkers in an hour and a half today.

    One thing I know about Californians, if the surf is up all bets are off. If I was still in Newport and it was pumpin, restraints would be required.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  31. Why do you fear Trump’s potential power grabs, yet not fear Newsom’s actual ones? Newsom has, for all intents and purposes, put 40 million people under house arrest. That seems authoritarian to me.

    States have plenary power while the powers of the federal government are supposed to be limited to those enumerated in the constitution.

    A couple days ago I quoted at length from the California health code that gives local health officers virtually unlimited powers to fight the spread of communicable diseases. These are passed by the state legislature, signed by the governor, and entirely proper under the state constitution.

    I think severe fines, say $1000 per violation, doubling with each repeat offense, and impoundment of property (e.g. any automobile involved in a violation – just as with DUI) would be in order.

    Dave (1bb933)

  32. The fines and proceeds from auction of confiscated property of violators could be put into a fund to compensate the families of health workers and first responders who lose loved ones due to the stupidity of #COVIDIOTS.

    Dave (1bb933)

  33. It’s always all about the money with you capitalist bloodsucker fascists, isn’t it?

    nk (1d9030)

  34. I went hiking in Malibu Creek State Park yesterday. Not bad for house arrest.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 3/22/2020 @ 12:35 pm

    Just took a great walk at the lake by my house. It’s wet and muddy but I enjoyed it. Very sparsely attended. Zilker, Town Lake, other nice parks in Austin are kinda crowded. People are getting really bored indoors so it makes sense that city parks will become problems. But it’s also very unhealthy to avoid walking around, in a nation with a real fitness problem and a disease that has poor outcomes for the overweight.

    No easy answers!

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  35. I talked to a lady from Spain this morning. They did start out with a partial lockdown and the coronaviruses cases kept rising so they went to “Papier, bitte” full house arrest.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. Then you violated the order. Next, are you going to fly out to Daytona Beach and get your party on?

    No. I did not violate any order. What I *will* do, however, is moderate you for the next two weeks.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  37. From the state’s FAQ on the Governor’s order:

    Outdoor recreation

    Can I still exercise? Take my kids to the park for fresh air? Take a walk around the block? Walk my dog?

    Yes. So long as you are maintaining a safe social distance of six feet from people who aren’t part of your household, it is ok to go outside for exercise, a walk or fresh air. Gyms are closed.

    Does this order affect hiking? State Parks?

    No, you may still go outside so long as you practice social distancing of six feet. California State Parks have closed indoor facilities and campgrounds, but trails and outdoor spaces are still open. Spending time outdoors can lead to a number of overall health and wellness benefits like lessening anxiety, boosting creativity and getting your vitamin D. If you decide to make a trip, remember to keep social distance.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  38. Not to feed a troll, but can this virus survive under UV light, like on a gas pump in the sun?

    It would be a great idea for gas stations to require attendants to bleach those surfaces every hour. They should be checking them for those skimmers regularly anyway. I’ve never seen someone clean one but it would be a great idea. Of course, it wouldn’t be hard for me to clean the pump myself when I use it.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  39. I talked to a lady from Spain this morning. They did start out with a partial lockdown and the coronaviruses cases kept rising so they went to “Papier, bitte” full house arrest.

    That’s what they did in China, even more aggressively.

    Make America Ordered Again (adac13)

  40. 40. So it’s a stay-at-home order that really doesn’t order you to stay at home. Curious.

    Gryph (08c844)

  41. Malibu Creek State Park is big and wide open, but unless our good host lives within hiking or biking distance of it he probably drove there. Maybe stopped to get gas, or some take out from the Mexican cafe at the end of Las Virgenes Rd., or saw a friend there and chatted. Touched several surfaces. I dunno. Multiply that by millions who think similarly.

    This is the point of a lockdown.

    Yup. Drove there. Did not stop to get gas, although that would be permitted. Took only an hour to drive from Rancho Palos Verdes, which is much better than the usual hour and a half.

    On the way back, I saw zero friends and would not stop and chat if I did. We did stop at the C&O Trattoria in Marina del Rey, one of our old haunts, to get take-out (take-out restaurants are considered essential businesses, not just delivery, meaning you can go to them and grab take-out). I was extra careful to wash my hands well when I got home. We fired up Dean Martin’s “That’s Amore” and linked our glasses the way we used to when we actually dined at the C&O. Then we played Ultimate Werewolf as a family.

    Nice day. I was thinking about blogging about it today, with pictures.

    Just got back from an hour and a half walk with the dogs at the nearby nature preserve. Very crowded. Lot of people enjoying nature’s beauty.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  42. 40. So it’s a stay-at-home order that really doesn’t order you to stay at home. Curious.

    Correct. My “sheltering in place” is tolerable if I get out every day to walk the dogs and once a week really get out far. I’d go to the beach today, maintaining distance from other people, but it’s going to rain. Crying face emoji.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  43. Very crowded. Hrm. That doesn’t sound like much fun if you have to worry about staying six feet away from everyone else. YMMV, of course.

    Gryph (08c844)

  44. I looked up the specifics the other day and it was stay at home unless you worked in an essential service (which ran the gamut from medical professionals and utility workers to pool cleaners and marijuana dispensers).

    As well as necessary trips like for food etc., they also encouraged getting outside and walking near your home while maintaining distance from others.

    harkin (b64479)

  45. 15. And I’m the guy who doesn’t take social distancing seriously enough? SMDH…

    Are you? I’d like to hope you’ve changed your mind.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  46. 45. Look Pat, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a shining example of why politicians are full of s**t every time they come out to lecture us about health emergencies. So far, the way it’s being dealt with in my home state (South Dakota) and Texas has likewise been tolerable, but Governor Noisome looks like the kind of guy who talks tough cause it looks good whether he gets results or not.

    Gryph (08c844)

  47. I looked up the specifics the other day and it was stay at home unless you worked in an essential service (which ran the gamut from medical professionals and utility workers to pool cleaners and marijuana dispensers).

    As well as necessary trips like for food etc., they also encouraged getting outside and walking near your home while maintaining distance from others.

    Or you can go to a state park. This is specifically approved. Encouraged, even.

    Dana is correct: you do run into people on the trails. Someone steps aside, you face away from one another as you pass, and it’s fine.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  48. “ but it’s going to rain. Crying face emoji.”
    _

    Celebrate the rain, we need it.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  49. 48. I haven’t changed my mind about how I feel towards the concept. It’s not like I’ve had a lot of choice in the matter, regardless. Most of the places that I used to go for recreation are closed, and restaurants and bars are closed to inside seating statewide.

    “Tolerable” is how I’d describe this situation, as long as it doesn’t get so bad that I end up losing my job. I’m not sure that I won’t at some point, but I guess there’s not a lot of utility in worrying about what could happen before it actually does happen, is there?

    Gryph (08c844)

  50. Newsome is tolerable compared to the son of Merrio K-whoa-mo (think Dana Carvey).

    urbanleftbehind (f608a4)

  51. #COVIDIOTS.
    Dave (1bb933) — 3/22/2020 @ 2:25 pm

    I like that term!

    felipe (023cc9)

  52. 48. I haven’t changed my mind about how I feel towards the concept. It’s not like I’ve had a lot of choice in the matter, regardless. Most of the places that I used to go for recreation are closed, and restaurants and bars are closed to inside seating statewide.

    Good.

    “Tolerable” is how I’d describe this situation, as long as it doesn’t get so bad that I end up losing my job. I’m not sure that I won’t at some point, but I guess there’s not a lot of utility in worrying about what could happen before it actually does happen, is there?

    I’m very concerned about the economic fallout of all this. But I’m more worried about the health care system getting overrun.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  53. I’m usually the fastest walker/avg runnerwhen I’m out at the park using the 1/2k 1/3mi outside track, so far usually only one runner or couple walking, if i get about 40 ft within I’ll change direction and end up doing this about 3 or 4 times.

    urbanleftbehind (f608a4)

  54. “ but it’s going to rain. Crying face emoji.”
    _

    Celebrate the rain, we need it.
    _

    Oh, it’s good. I’m obviously joking.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  55. 55. I’m more worried about the economic fallout than I am about the health care system. But what’s going to happen is going to happen, and I’ve pretty much made my peace with it

    Gryph (08c844)

  56. Patterico (115b1f) — 3/22/2020 @ 2:40 pm

    I fully endorse our gracious and tolerant host’s decision.
    Moral: Don’t bother striking at this particular king; He’s immortal.

    felipe (023cc9)

  57. “ Or you can go to a state park. This is specifically approved. Encouraged, even.”
    _

    An hour drive from Palos Verdes to Malibu seems excessive but we’ll just have to differ I guess.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  58. Nice day. I was thinking about blogging about it today, with pictures.

    Please do! We need good examples to follow, or at least to share.

    felipe (023cc9)

  59. I’d go to the beach today, maintaining distance from other people, but it’s going to rain.

    Wear a rain jacket or wool or fleece and let yourself get wet. Worked for the Vikings.

    Make America Ordered Again (adac13)

  60. Public schools are not in session, and high schools and even middle schools often have massive fields and big trees that can be walked and enjoyed if one isn’t in close proximity to a more natural environment to walk/hike.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  61. It would be a great idea for gas stations to require attendants to bleach those surfaces every hour. They should be checking them for those skimmers regularly anyway. I’ve never seen someone clean one but it would be a great idea. Of course, it wouldn’t be hard for me to clean the pump myself when I use it.

    UV will kill it, in fact that is an excellent way to sterilize a surface. But you have to think like a more powerful lamp than the tanning booth. Sunlight will do it too, eventually, but it’s more diffuse, and less energetic, plus the light bulb keeps moving, plus clouds and awning, Dave could explain the effect of the magnetosphere and atmosphere, but even a tanning bed would do a bit better than direct sunlight. You know, after you scrape the other gross off of it, eww! Communal toilet, tanning bed, kinda in the same no-go zone for me, only one of those I’d use in an emergency.

    Those are UV lights that you turn the timer on when you close a lab at the end of a shift, run for 10-30 minutes and basically cook anything in the air or on a visible surface. The projectors are EXPENSIVE.

    I have a little travel spray bottle of 99% rubbing alcohol and the same plastic gloves I use when cleaning guns, they’re not made as PPE, heck I got 4 boxes of 1k on Amazon for $20 6 or 8 years ago, but they’re fine for what the public needs today, perfect for a gas station.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  62. 63… should substantially improve air quality in the basin!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/22/2020 @ 3:21 pm
    Is that the same walker Hillary used? Maybe the same model?

    felipe (023cc9)

  64. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/22/2020 @ 3:21 pm

    Isolation, huh? What are the odds he commits…

    felipe (023cc9)

  65. 55. I’m more worried about the economic fallout than I am about the health care system. But what’s going to happen is going to happen, and I’ve pretty much made my peace with it

    Gryph (08c844) — 3/22/2020 @ 3:05 pm

    There is great reason to worry about both and unfortunately not enough we can do to help either. Hope you’re doing ok. I definitely hope everyone takes a great walk today to lift their spirits. I wish I still had a dog. My blue heeler passed away a few months ago. It’s time to stop by the shelter but I don’t actually know if that’s possible.

    Dana’s suggestion of strolling to schools is a great idea. There’s an elementary near my home that I might have a little one at soon so I should stroll there next.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  66. “ and the same plastic gloves I use when cleaning guns”

    Because I took care of two parents before they passed away over the last five years, I have enough plastic gloves, hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes to get through this. Gloves are great for markets and gas stations.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  67. Apparently the Moviemaker With the Unusual Genitalia has contracted Covfefe-19…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. Regardless, Trump’s approval rating is going up.

    Think how high it would go if he fired Anthony Fauci? Give him the old Mooch treatment! There are plenty of fine doctors, who are less bureaucratic, and actually keep up-to-date with moving events, who can do that job.

    Make America Ordered Again (adac13)

  69. “My blue heeler passed away a few months ago. It’s time to stop by the shelter but I don’t actually know if that’s possible.”

    I still miss my healer/Dalmatian cross ranch dog that passed in the 90s – what a pooch. One of he smartest dogs I ever knew and the local coyotes worshiped him, would leave gifts for him outside the fence.

    harkin (b64479)

  70. harkin (b64479) — 3/22/2020 @ 3:26 pm

    God bless you, you truly honor your mother and your father.

    felipe (023cc9)

  71. Covfefe-19…

    Oh, colonel, you know I love you, man, bit that is too soon.

    felipe (023cc9)

  72. “ Think how high it would go if he fired Anthony Fauci?”

    No comment on Fauci but think of how high it would go if he functioned like a normal adult.

    He’s squandered so many great opportunities to just remain somewhat reserved while the media and the Democrats continue their meltdown. His approval numbers would be in the 70s if he could just maintain even a modicum of self-control.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  73. Hey, felipe, we laugh to cover the coughing…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  74. “ God bless you, you truly honor your mother and your father.”

    Thanks. What I did for them was not even a down payment compared to what they did for me.

    Plus I managed to hold on to a job in Utah, mostly by working from my parents’ house plus lots of 3-4 day plane trips.

    I finally quit a few months before Pop died because I was just too frazzled.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  75. There’s an elementary near my home that I might have a little one at soon …

    I am very happy to hear that, Dustin. Somehow I missed that you had had a child. Congratulations!

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. What felipe said, harkin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. It took us ten years with tremendous hardship before we had our perfect daughter, DRJ. I would be happy to send you a photo. There’s not a more beautiful daughter in the world. 11 months old and sitting right over there.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  78. And thanks! It really can’t be put into words how it flipped everything back right for me.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  79. One of he smartest dogs I ever knew and the local coyotes worshiped him, would leave gifts for him outside the fence.

    harkin (b64479) — 3/22/2020 @ 3:32 pm

    That’s awesome. I totally believe this too. That is an interesting mix as I see Dalmations and Heelers are almost opposites in personality. I bet that was a terrific dog.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  80. Dustin, I would treasure that, and I am beyond happy for you and your wife.

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. Children are a gift from G*D, Dustin. From a psalm of David:

    3 Children are a heritage from the Lord,
    offspring a reward from him.
    4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
    are children born in one’s youth.
    5 Blessed is the man
    whose quiver is full of them.
    They will not be put to shame
    when they contend with their opponents in court.

    felipe (023cc9)

  82. Wonderful, Felipe!

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  83. “That is an interesting mix as I see Dalmations and Heelers are almost opposites in personality.”

    Truly, all the Dalmatians I ever knew were undisciplined and over-hyper.

    Here’s a pic a few months after we rescued him. The kids named him Spooky cause in the moonlight he looked like a little ghost.

    https://i.postimg.cc/QCGgB2k1/C49-FAC56-7-F70-4709-92-E0-58-C6-B797099-A.jpg

    harkin (b64479)

  84. Harkin, wow that is a cool dog. Thank you for sharing the picture.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  85. @6-
    Why do you fear Trump’s potential power grabs, yet not fear Newsom’s actual ones? Newsom has, for all intents and purposes, put 40 million people under house arrest. That seems authoritarian to me.
    Newsom’s (and Garcetti’s) orders are a crock. Without an enforcement mechanism the aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. Trump, on the other hand, has the FBI and the military to back him up.

    RipMurdock (18cf88)

  86. There are only 13,500 FBI field agents in the United States. LAPD has just under 10k uniformed officers by themselves, plus 10k sworn LA County Sheriff officers. Governors can call up the National Guard for deployment, there are a few more hurdles than you seem to be intimating.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  87. There’s a very small park (about an acre) a block and a half from my house that I went to today. There were about ten other people, including some people fishing on the side of the lake that forms the park’s inner side. And a canoefull of people sailing by, apparently a family (plus a fairly large dog), from the development that’s on the other side of the lake. Most people kept to themselves, or were obviously part of the same family.

    There was also a large batch of real snowbirds aka Canadian geese that filled up whatever parts of the park did not have people around…

    Kishnevi (417b3c)

  88. I will note that Gov DeSantis in his wisdom has ordered all beaches in Broward and Palm Beach counties closed, but not the beaches on the Gulf or in the Panhandle. The latter are were all those kids celebrating spring break are. Which means it’s an empty gesture. In Broward the cities and the county had already shut all the beaches down, and I believe Palm Beach has done the same.

    Why he isn’t shutting down the other beaches…I have three ideas, none of them mutually exclusive
    –he wants to get as much tourist money as he can
    –he figures the kids are from out of state, so whomever they infect won’t be Florida’s problem
    –the Panhandle especially is GOP country, as is much of the southern Gulf coast, so perhaps he doesn’t want to get them too angry

    Kishnevi (417b3c)

  89. I went hiking in Malibu Creek State Park yesterday. Not bad for house arrest.

    Nice dodge. But you still seem to fear something that has not happened that would be pretty much in line with something you apparently approve. My issue here is with the contrast and the fantasy threat being more scary to you than very similar things you readily accept.

    While I think they are justified, governors around the country have assumed powers not seen since the Civil War. Trump’s actions have been far less intrusive and mainly aimed at the nation’s borders — a power that would be uncontroversial in another president. If anything, his actions have been too mild and delayed — he should have shut down air travel entirely some time ago. Now the horse will have left the barn when he does it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf dismissed the notion of an impending national lockdown or quarantine in the U.S. during an interview on Fox News Sunday morning.

    Well, of course they deny it. They would in any case. Just like this NY Times article (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-restrictions-us.html) goes out of its way to avoid saying “national lockdown” but pretty much arguing for it anyway.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. States have plenary power while the powers of the federal government are supposed to be limited to those enumerated in the constitution.

    Article IV, Section 4 discusses the powers of the federal government regarding invasion, which would seem germane here, and while the states ALSO have this power (Article I, Section 10), they do not have it exclusively. An emergency of this sort also affects interstate commerce, and as you know that means anything goes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. His approval numbers would be in the 70s if he could just maintain even a modicum of self-control.

    This may be what he considers a modicum of self control.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. On Sunday, lonely as a cloud, I wandered across a windswept moor in County Durham and passed a solitary sandstone rock with a small, round hollow in the top, an old penny glued to the base of the hollow. It is called the Butter Stone and it’s where, during the plague in 1665, coins were left in a pool of vinegar by the inhabitants of nearby towns and villages, to be exchanged with farmers for food. The idea was that the farmer or his customer approached the rock only when the other was at a safe distance.

    Four modern coins were on the rock, anonymous offerings to the spirits of the moor. Never once in my six decades did I expect to be back in a 17th-century world of social and physical distancing as a matter of life and death.

    There are no good outcomes from here. Many people will die prematurely. Many will lose their jobs. Many businesses will go under. Many people will suffer bereavement, loneliness and despair, even if they dodge the virus. The only question is how many in each case. We are about to find out how robust civilisation is. The hardships ahead are like nothing we’ve known.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-are-about-to-find-out-how-robust-civilisation-is

    Ridley is one of the smartest people around, and no pessimist. Read the whole thing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  94. Dustin, a thousand congratulations for the birth and life of your daughter! It’s a tremendous blessing, and changes so much in us for the better.

    Leviticus (28a6ca)

  95. Dustin, giving life is the greatest gift of all. Belated congrats.

    harkin (b64479)

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