Patterico's Pontifications

3/15/2020

Two Old White Guys Have A Debate – Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:55 pm



[guest post by Dana]

The Democratic debate is happening now. A lot of coronavirus talk, the economy, wealth inequality, undocumented aliens, etc. And they mention how frequently they wash their hands, and reassure us they don’t shake hands anymore

One wants a revolution, the other says we don’t need a revolution, we need solutions.

And they get testy with each other too:

Joe: No, I didn’t!

Bernie: Yes, you did! Go to the YouTube and look…

The YouTube.

PS – Joe’s suit is sharp and beautifully tailored and his bright, red tie pops. Not unlike his shiny veneers. Bernie’s suit is off-the-rack pedestrian gray, and nothing pops. Not his tie, not his teeth.
They wear their image. This is who they are.

–Dana

72 Responses to “Two Old White Guys Have A Debate – Open Thread”

  1. This isn’t the best America has to offer.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. ‘They wear their image.’

    Joe Biden Sr. was a used car salesman. ‘Nuff said.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. You may not like Bernie, but he deserves the credit– he is kicking Biden’s ass. And if he can do it– Trump is going to wipe the floor with him. Sanders certainly won’t win the nomination, but he is right about Biden talking in circles and contradicting himself; Bernie keeps nailing Biden w/his own record:

    From JoeyBee’s wiki bio: ‘Biden was a sponsor of bankruptcy legislation during the 2000s, which was sought by MBNA, one of Delaware’s largest companies, and other credit card issuers. Biden allowed an amendment to the bill to increase the homestead exemption for homeowners declaring bankruptcy and fought for an amendment to forbid anti-abortion felons from using bankruptcy to discharge fines; the overall bill was vetoed by Bill Clinton in 2000 but then finally passed as the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act in 2005, with Biden supporting it. A vociferous supporter, Biden was one of only 18 Democratic senators to vote along with the Republicans in favor of the legislation, while leading Democrats and consumer rights organizations came out in opposition.’ – source, “thewikipedia” bio

    ____

    Biden just did a “John McCain Hail Mary” and committed to picking a woman as his VP running mate.

    Sorry Spartacus. But maybe it can go either way with Mayor Pete.

    Sanders says in all likelihood, he is moving in that direction but ‘progressive’ issue positions are a factorto consider, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  4. Thank you for watching it so we don’t have to, Dana.

    In any event, the Chicago Board of Elections’ computer emailed me half an hour ago that my ballot is cast and “will be counted”.

    nk (1d9030)

  5. @4. It’s good TeeVee, nk– it’s like watching a long, long 1980s Bartles and Jaymes Wine Cooler commercial gone bad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. I joined late, but nothing here changes my mind.

    On twitter I read a take, Biden is talking about what Can be done, Bernie is talking about should be done. They’re having two different debates. I don’t want to vote for either of them.

    Maybe a miracle will happen and a good option will present itself.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  7. Joe seems to be getting tired.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  8. Biden: “No more subsidies for fossil fuels; no more drilling on Federal lands… no new fracking….”

    And existing fracking, Joe?? Radio… heater… white walls… easy payments! Eh, JoeyBee?!

    Trump is going to run him over, back up, and run him over again. Then park on top of him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. Three old dogs — Biden, Bernie, Trump — being wagged by their respective tails, the crazies of their parties.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. Biden is talking about what Can be done, Bernie is talking about should be done.

    You mean like ending subsidie to fossil fuel firms? And stopping Brazilfrom burning their rain forest because it catches all the “carbon??” ROFLMAO.

    Biden is just talking. And saying nothing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. Biden won’t deport anyone but felons.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  12. Bernie is really pissed that they’re asking him about his historical love of communist dictatorships.

    But Biden has a good point that occasional saying a nice thing about a country we’re not close too is different from repeated rhetorical support for authoritarian regimes.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  13. Hey, Joe, I’ll praise the Soviet Union, too: they helped kick Hitler’s azz, they launched the first Earth satellite, put the first man in space and Moscow’s subway train stations are virtually art galleries– and do not reek of urine.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  14. We desperately need an independent mainstream candidate.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. Bernie’s answer about why black people don’t vote for him is a distillation of why he’s on stage. It’s about trying to push his vision. But I wish he’d just said “Joe was the VP to the first Black president.”

    Time123 (daab2f)

  16. @14. End notes; credits roll– Bernie strides to moderators– Biden staggers.

    At least somebody who knows 1968 was not just a year but the price of a few Beatles CDs in 1998.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. War on Drugs.
    War on Terror.
    War on Poverty.
    And now…

    War on Virus.
    Idiots.

    Idiots all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. I saw Trump in his presser today, then I saw these guys…Biden’s old senile butt is acceptable for 4 years, assuming we survive the rest of the year. Then we’ll get to choose someone else. Fine, I guess.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  19. You do know that this only Prole TV, right? That not even the Outer Party, with the exception of the secret police, is watching it on their mandated 24/7 two-way TVs?

    nk (1d9030)

  20. If Biden has said he’d have a female running mate, I’m guessing maybe Stacy Abrams or Elizabeth Warren. I also thought maybe Hillary, but really, what does bring to the table? And wouldn’t that be a bit humiliating for her anyway? I don’t think he’ll go Klobuchar.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  21. Col. Klink,

    Trump v. Biden in a debate. Who takes it?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  22. If a cranky old Jewish guy from Brooklyn can kick Biden’s azz like tonight, wait ’til he feels the shoe of a Presbyterian from Queens up his butt.

    The Hail Mary to an Amy, Kamila or Liz can’t save him anymore than Johnny’s handoff did to Sarah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Oh, yeah, I forgot about Kamala…

    Dana (4fb37f)

  24. He could also opt for an Hispanic, male or female.

    DRJ (15874d)

  25. He was specific, and said a female, for what it’s worth.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  26. But since he promised a woman as his pick, not a male.

    DRJ (15874d)

  27. He was specific, and said a female, for what it’s worth.

    But nowadays, “female” is a matter of self-identification, not biology. If Booker puts on a skirt, would he qualify?

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  28. Sarah Palin is available.

    DRJ (15874d)

  29. “My administration will look like the country and I commit that I will in fact pick a woman to be vice president,” the former vice president said. “There are a number of women who are qualified to be president tomorrow. I will pick a woman as my vice president.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  30. I could see him picking Tammy Duckworth.

    DRJ (15874d)

  31. In any event, the Chicago Board of Elections’ computer emailed me half an hour ago that my ballot is cast and “will be counted”.

    I early voted in person last Monday. For Biden, as the only possible pick now everyone else has dropped out. DSCSA’s obsession with him was another good reason.

    Kishnevi (07ebcc)

  32. Yes, Duckworth is another possibility too.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  33. BTW, I learned tonight, courtesy of Tamara Keeling (aka best gunblogger on the Net), the German word for panic hoarding is Hamsterkauf.

    Kishnevi (07ebcc)

  34. This is not helping my solipsism at all. I might as well have created the coronavirus to keep my college-bound daughter at home (what with all the colleges shutting down their campuses and switching to home-schooling). Likewise, these Democrats seem to me like a conspiracy to get me to vote for Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. 32, shiedt, you may as well pick Tulsi. That’s gonna look real bad with Duckworth, a 77 year old who can bary walk with a barely ambulatory amptutee.

    I thought Andrew Cuomo did David Paterson dirty, but in some ways would being a legally blind governor be an undue hindrance in these conditions?

    Plus Biden making nearly the same mistake Cruz did with Fiorina.

    urbanleftbehind (69d06f)

  36. Trump v. Biden in a debate. Who takes it?

    Biden, probably. He sounds like an adult who has gotten kinda old and slow, you have to let him take his naps. Trump sounds like a deranged lunatic, who never actually recognized reality. So Biden, probably, he should just look at Trump and shake his head with his hand over his face.

    It’s what I did when I saw Trump this afternoon. It is terrifying that people think Trump has a single redeeming quality.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  37. Additionally, Biden said he would choose a black woman as his Supreme Court nominee. He said that the nation’s highest needed better representation on the bench.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  38. 28.Sarah Palin is available.

    Her divorce was finalized? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. @37. He’s such a Pander Bear. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. 3. DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2020 @ 6:13 pm

    Biden just did a “John McCain Hail Mary” and committed to picking a woman as his VP running mate.

    The way he did it, very much in passing, it sounded like it was something he had already announced before, (although maybe only on the last week) but the moderator took it a new commitment – news – and she asked Bernie Sanders about it too.

    Sanders at first did not give an answer, but later he came close to committing himself, but said it was important that she be a “progressive” woman.

    This was all after Sanders had pretty much said half of his Cabinet appointees would be women.

    Biden also said his first appointment to the United States Supreme court would be a black woman. That was something that was missing so far. It hadn’t been done. (that’s kind of limiting his choices)

    Does he hope to name Anita Hill? (with the goal of getting Clarence Thomas to retire maybe.)

    The debate didn’t focus on any of that.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  41. Biden said in November that he’d probably pick a woman, even floated Stacy Abrams in the summer.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  42. @35. Reality bites. He’ll go w/t one of the ladies who ran as candidates.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Biden claimed he opposed the bankruptcy bill (I think he was talking only about the 2005 bill) but it was going to pass anyway and he improved the bill. He also said 90% of the student loans could not be discharged in bankruptcy because of previous bill, not that one.

    Bernie was quite willing to concede that perhaps Joe Biden had good reasons in his mind for his positions or perhaps he changed his mind but he should say what it was.

    They kept saying Bowles Simpson instead of Simpson Bowles.

    They had a number of arguments on a number of points.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  44. @31. I can’t lose. America can.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. 11. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/15/2020 @ 6:35 pm

    Biden won’t deport anyone but felons.

    They are still living n the past.

    Trump isn’t going to deport anyone, because of coronovirus. No interntional airplane travel.Maybe acarter plane or two.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  46. Tonight’s biggest losers; Spartacus and Mayor Pete.

    Sold your souls too soon; get the book, “Endorsements For Dummies.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. @36. Trump is the better salesman.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. Sanders said China raised living standards in China in the last 40 or 50 years. It’s 42 years, since Deng Xiaoping permitted it. He was spelled in English as Teng Hsiaoping at the time. There was more than 30 years of horrible poverty, not to mention suffering from excruciating tyranny, before that.

    And you can just as easily attribute it to Richard Nixon (for permitting exports for one thing.)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  49. “ I also thought maybe Hillary, but really, what does bring to the table? And wouldn’t that be a bit humiliating for her anyway? ”

    I’m wondering if senility can be defined as putting Hilary your own death short of the Oval Office.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  50. They were also asked what they were doing personally to avoid falling ill to the coronovirus. They both said their staff was working online and they were all doing the recommended things.

    And by the way, Joe Biden didn;t have to correct himself. SARS really is the right name. The virus is called severe respiratory acute syndrome coronovirus 2, or SARS-Cov-2 for short. SARS2.

    The disease is called Covid-19, which stands for COronoVIrus Disease of ’19.

    (probably thanks to successful Chinese lobbying of the World Health Organization)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  51. Biden held it together better than I thought he would. Sometimes it seems he starts sentences without a clear idea how he’s going to finish them, but I think he’s got enough grey matter left to go the distance.

    JRH (52aed3)

  52. David Rutz
    @DavidRutz

    Biden lied about whether he’s ever called for cutting Social Security, misled on his Iraq War record, called for banning all oil drilling going forward, and said there would be no deportations for the first 100 days of his presidency.
    __ _

    Skooter Bates
    @coahoma47
    ·
    Yes and then turned around and lied that he didn’t support open borders.
    __ _

    Brett Kleeman
    @kleeman20
    ·
    And the MSM is covering for him @secupp @jaketapper @CNN … @JoeBiden is literally running against what he’s stood for during 40+ years in politics and the media isn’t batting an eye.

    TDS is real
    __ _

    Andy Guerra
    @COAngelFan
    ·
    Lying and misleading assumes that Biden actually remembers. At this point, it’s hard to believe he remembers how he got to the debate.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  53. I saw Trump in his presser today, then I saw these guys…Biden’s old senile butt is acceptable for 4 years, assuming we survive the rest of the year. Then we’ll get to choose someone else. Fine, I guess.

    Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  54. Biden already said he’d pick a female running mate. He might as well take away the suspense and announce it’s Klobuchar.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  55. Biden is talking about what Can be done, Bernie is talking about should be done.

    Both are talking about things that are better NOT done. Again, this is a contest between terrible and worse-than-terrible, and again I will have to settle for re-electing the merely terrible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. If Biden wins, he will have all of Congress and a rejuvenated Supreme Court left, plus Roberts. He will stop that fracking, he will sign all of AOC’s bills and he will set us on the road to Socialism. The difference between Biden and Bernie is that Bernie is in a hurry and Biden is not.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. He might as well take away the suspense and announce it’s Klobuchar.

    Why when he’s going to choose Harris or Warren. He has to assuage the Left somehow.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. I expect Newsom will announce a general two week lockdown within 48 hrs for California.

    Do hope I’m wrong.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. I find it hilarious that the folks who viscerally hate Trump (not disagree with him on policy so much as hate the man himself) are so ready to lie to themselves about how moderate and harmless Biden will be. As yet, Trump has not done anything irrevocable. The Democrats’ platform will call for a dozen irrevocable things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. “Biden’s old senile butt is acceptable for 4 years”

    Maybe all the judges he appoints will agree to serve only 4 years.

    Maybe all the people flaunting our immigration laws will agree to stay only 4 years.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  61. Haiku. If you want to understand why they are doing this consider those TP shelves. Now, suppose that’s the hospital ICU department in 2 weeks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. I understand… it’s all about flattening the curve.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. We desperately need an independent mainstream candidate.

    Mitt is still available.

    Then again, in a month or two the doddering-fool cohort might have been winnowed a bit.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. If Biden wins, he will have all of Congress and a rejuvenated Supreme Court left, plus Roberts. He will stop that fracking, he will sign all of AOC’s bills and he will set us on the road to Socialism. The difference between Biden and Bernie is that Bernie is in a hurry and Biden is not.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:50 pm

    Exactly.

    I find it hilarious that the folks who viscerally hate Trump (not disagree with him on policy so much as hate the man himself) are so ready to lie to themselves about how moderate and harmless Biden will be. As yet, Trump has not done anything irrevocable. The Democrats’ platform will call for a dozen irrevocable things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:54 pm

    100% correct.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  65. Nailed it Haiku. Good to see you back.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  66. @59. He brought up working with Dick Lugar.

    He left the Senate in 2013– and has been dead a year.

    And Putin smiled…

    “Folks! Here’s the deal! I’m proud to announce my choice for a running mate. The lovely senator from the great state of Calmasota, Kamala Elizabeth Klobuchar! Howzabout a hug for your Joey, hun! Now, together we’ll stop Brazil from burning all that carbon loving forest of theirs and get our troops out of Vietnam once and for all– because peace is at hand and this is the United States of America!!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. Bernie Sanders said the scientists had realized they were wrong and we are (closer to doom) than we thought. Does he really believe any of this is objective? And besides hasn’t he noticed we are abut t achieve the goals of the Paris Climate accord, and more in record time, by the end of this month probably?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  68. Biden says that what’s he going to do about (carbon/renewable energy) is going to be irrevocable and proof against the next president and the president after that.

    Unless it makes financial sense, I don’t see that. He mentioned high speed rail, by the way.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  69. https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-goes-extreme-give-oil-industry-no-ability-to-continue-to-drill-take-millions-of-cars-off-the-road

    To those of you willing to accept Biden for 4 years that aren’t leftists: this sounds reasonable to you and acceptable to get rid of the President because you don’t like him?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  70. Joe Biden:

    First of all, my heart goes out to those who have already lost someone. or those who are suffering from the virus.

    But that’s not very many people!

    He said that more than once.

    It was like he thought it had been a much greater disaster than it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  71. How the two candidates personaly dealt with the virus and the restictions:

    Dana Bash: (35:36)

    Senator. Senator, thank you. We’re going to talk about immigration in a minute, but first I want to ask about something that’s going on right now. Again, back to this crisis. We know that people over the age of 60 and those with underlying medical conditions, especially heart disease, lung disease and diabetes, are the most vulnerable to Coronavirus and are being asked to change their behavior to protect themselves. So Senator Sanders, I’ll start with you. You’re 78 years old. You had a heart attack. What are you doing to protect yourself?

    Bernie Sanders: (36:03)

    Well, a great deal. I mean, last night we had a fireside chat, not a rally. I love doing rallies and we bring many thousands of people out to our rallies. I enjoy it very much. We’re not doing that right now. In fact, our entire staff is working from home. So on a personal level, what we’re doing is, I’m not shaking hands. Joe and I did not shake hands. I am very careful about the people I am interacting with. I’m using a lot of soap and hand sanitizers to make sure that I do not get the infection. And I have to say, thank God, right now I do not have any symptoms and I feel very grateful for that.

    Dana Bash: (36:48)

    Vice President Biden, you’re 77. What are you doing to protect yourself?

    Joe Biden: (36:52)

    Well, fortunately, I don’t have any of the underlying conditions you talked about that I have to worry about, number one. Number two, thank God… for the time being, anything can happen, as my mother would say, knock on wood… that I’m in good health. Number three, I’m taking all the precautions anyone would take, whether they’re 30 years old or 60 years old or 80 years old. That is, I’m going to make sure that I do not shake hands any longer. I do not engage. We did the same thing. Our staff is all working from home. We are not doing rallies any longer. We’re doing virtual rallies. We’re doing virtual town hall meetings.

    Joe Biden: (37:27)

    We’re in a situation where now, I do not… as I said, when we encounter people, we’re not going into crowds. And so I’m taking all the precautions everyone else should be taking. I wash my hands God knows how many times a day with hot water and soap. I carry with me… as a matter of fact, I have it in my bag outside here… hand sanitizer. I don’t know how many times a day I use that. I make sure I don’t touch my face, and so on. So I’m taking all the precautions we’ve told everybody else to take.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)


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