Patterico's Pontifications

3/13/2020

Trump: Maybe I’ll Get Tested For Coronavirus, Maybe I Won’t…

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:25 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Last weekend, President Trump hosted guests at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach. One of those guests, the press secretary to Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who was also a guest at the estate, tested positive for the coronavirus:

Fabio Wajngarten, press secretary for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, posed for a picture with Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and Bolsonaro at Trump’s Florida resort over the weekend that he posted on Instagram. The press office at Brazil’s presidential palace confirmed to NBC News Thursday that Wajngarten had tested positive for the coronavirus.

Today, President Bolsonaro announced that his own test for coronavirus came back negative.

President Trump’s press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, responded to questions about the president’s decision to not be tested, in spite of his close proximity to Wajngarten:

“Both the president and vice president had almost no interactions with the individual who tested positive and do not require being tested at this time,” Grisham said. “To reiterate CDC guidelines, there is currently no indication to test patients without symptoms, and only people with prolonged close exposure to confirmed positive cases should self-quarantine.”

It should be noted that Trump also chose not to self-quarantine.

Sen. Lindsay Graham who had also been in attendance at Mar-a-Lago last weekend, opted to follow his doctor’s advice and self-quarantine until he was notified of the results of his coronavirus test. He stated that he was doing this “out of an abundance of caution”.

Sen. Rick Scott, who met with Bolsonaro on Monday, also opted to self-quarantine, saying:

[T]he health and safety of the American people is my focus and I have made the decision to self-quarantine in an abundance of caution[.]

And today we learned that Miami mayor Francis Suarez, who met with Wajngarten last weekend, has also tested positive for coronavirus.

Trump offered this explanation for not being tested or self-quarantining after being in close proximity to the Brazilian press secretary:

“I feel extremely good, I feel very good. But I guess it’s not a big deal to get tested, and it’s something I would do. But, again, I spoke to the White House doctor — terrific guy, talented guy — he said he sees no reason to do it, there’s no symptoms, no anything,” he said at the time.

Note:

Over the weekend, Trump also came into contact with two Republican congressmen — Reps. Doug Collins of Georgia and Matt Gaetz of Florida — prior to their decisions to self-quarantine after being exposed to someone infected with the coronavirus at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Maryland. Neither has reported having any symptoms.

At a press conference this afternoon, Trump said he “might” get tested for the virus, days after having come in contact with press secretary Wajngarten, as well as shaking hands with the CEO’s attending today’s Rose Garden announcement. He explained:

“We have a White House doctor — I should say many White House doctors,” said Trump. “I asked them that same question, and they said, ‘You don’t have any symptoms whatsoever.’ And we don’t want people without symptoms to go and do the test. The test is not insignificant.”

But when he was pressed about his contact with the Brazilian staffer, Trump said, “I didn’t say I wasn’t going to be tested.” Asked if he would be, he said, “Most likely. Not for that reason, but because I think I will do it anyway. Fairly soon. We’re working out a schedule.”

A schedule???

And then there is this: It is now being reported that a second person with President Trump at Mar-a-Lago last weekend has also tested positive for coronavirus:

A second person who was at Mar-a-Lago with President Donald Trump last weekend has tested positive for coronavirus.

That’s according to a Republican official who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss private health matters.

The person attended a fundraiser at the president’s Florida resort.Trump also spent time last weekend with a Brazilian official who tested positive just days later.

“Abundance of caution” means nothing to Trump. Yet as the leader of the nation, shouldn’t it? If we are being directed to self-quarantine “out of an abundance of caution,” shouldn’t he do likewise – even if to set an example? Certainly he could run the government from just about anywhere for two weeks. Further, although he is not showing symptoms, and his doctor has said that there is no reason for him to be tested, I wonder what his doctor said about whether it would be in everyone’s best interest that he self-quarantine for two weeks?

–Dana

115 Responses to “Trump: Maybe I’ll Get Tested For Coronavirus, Maybe I Won’t…”

  1. There is a great video here that you must watch. I will try to embed it into the post.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. Let us remember that if Trump tests positive, everyone in the upper reaches of the WH staff, and Pence and Fauci and numerous others, will have to consider self quarsntines and tests.

    Kishnevi (98ea1b)

  3. mr. president trump, who is the healthiest president named donald in history, should announce that he has tested positive for coronavirus

    whether it is true or not

    then sit back and watch the stock market shoot up to 29,000 again

    on that same day

    nk (1d9030)

  4. If his doctors actually tell him “There is no need”, then I don’t see why we-all think we know better.

    As nk indicates it’s mostly a hope he’ll test positive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. Me, I’d rather he got the symptoms and lied about it for a few days, because it would harm him politically.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Lindsey Graham ‘self-quarantines.’

    And whose butt have you been kissing, dear?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. We’re working out a schedule.

    Translation: “I’ve already forgotten the lie I told you 30 seconds ago, but here’s a new one.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. it is my considered opinion, comrades, that don donald trump and his crime family are part of the problem and not part of the solution in this crisis

    because they have no real stake in it

    they have their money

    and their rolls royce health plans

    and their “95%” army of marching morons who no matter what happens will still say that trump is making america great again

    nk (1d9030)

  9. If his doctors actually tell him “There is no need”, then I don’t see why we-all think we know better.

    As nk indicates it’s mostly a hope he’ll test positi

    I absolutely don’t hope that he test positive. And I don’t think I know better either. My point is, after the aide tested positive, it would seem prudent for Trump to have at least self-quarantined. He didn’t know at that time that Bolsonaro would test negative. I feel like he’s a bit cavalier about it all.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  10. Plenty of 75 and 80 years olds are just whiz-bang easy-peezy w/doing the Google search thing, filling out virus questionnaires to qualify for a test- as long as the electric typewriter is plugged in. If only they weren’t distracted by that flirt of a clock that keeps winking at them from the VCR.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. About the LAST thing I want is for the Orange Racoon to croak in office. He’s insufferable alive! Imagine him as a martyr.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  12. Who cares whether Trump gets tested or not. And he certainly should NOT get tested because a bunch Media Yahoos who hate him DEMAND he be tested.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  13. We have 320 million Americans. Should we all get tested? And if we do, then what? Why is it impossible to read a MSM newspaper or turn on cable TV without being barraged by idiots who are NOT scientists, NOT Doctors DONT know history, and seemingly can’t think. Just like every other “crisis” in my lifetime its almost impossible to get any facts, or grownup intelligent analysis out of the Main Stream media. They’re either pushing a narrative, hyping it for ratings, or just plain stupid.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  14. Who cares whether Trump gets tested or not. And he certainly should NOT get tested because a bunch Media Yahoos who hate him DEMAND he be tested.

    Maybe he should get tested because he’s an old man who has been around multiple infected individuals. You know, like a non-moron might, just for self preservation, but he is a moron, with all the moron baggage that brings with it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  15. Right now the USA scorecard Reads:

    2020 Wuhan Virus – 40 deaths
    2009 H1N1 Virus – 12,000 deaths

    rcocean (1a839e)

  16. Why is it impossible to read a MSM newspaper or turn on cable TV without being barraged by idiots who are NOT scientists, NOT Doctors DONT know history, and seemingly can’t think.

    But enough about the President and his VEEP…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  17. America should sleep well knowing Walmart is giving up the four parking spots where it usually piles up unmelted snow for testing tents.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. Again, testing for what? Testing doesn’t cure you. Testing doesn’t mean you won’t get the disease TOMORROW. Again, testing who and testing why? Some people need to be tested. Got symptoms get tested. But screeching that EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED is moronic. I’m tired of hearing dummies on TV and the papers just parrot nonsense.

    And Y’know what, talking to D’s and Never trumpers is just getting too boring. Every damn thing is “How can we make Trump bad?” “How can we insult trump for the 4,678 time”? EVERYTHING for the last 4 years has been used as an excuse to attack Trump. Boring.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  19. You want Biden, you’ll get him. Just like you wanted Semi-socialist California.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  20. But screeching that EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED is moronic.

    He screeched. He alone, btw.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  21. I remember when the House of Representatives, still controlled by Republicans, held hearings on whether President Barack was getting adequate Secret Service protection. That’s because they cared.

    nk (1d9030)

  22. I haven’t heard anyone screeching everyone must get tested. I haven’t heard them saying it either.

    They are saying everyone who needs testing should get tested, just like Fearless Leader promised.

    Kishnevi (98ea1b)

  23. The President declares a National State of Emergency, rolls out public/private collaboration that has his personal fingerprints all over it. The Stock market soars on the Presidents leadership. The President explains the lack of early testing, with Dr.Fauci and Ambassador Deborah Birx nodding their agreement with the Presidents explanation.

    And all leftist have is one meaningless talking point.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  24. America should sleep well knowing Walmart is giving up the four parking spots where it usually piles up unmelted snow for testing tents.

    Why would Walmart need unmelted snow for testing tents? Honestly, you make no sense at times.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  25. Do I need a sarc tag?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  26. The President declares a National State of Emergency, rolls out public/private collaboration that has his personal fingerprints all over it.

    Well, I hope they have a BIG vat of bleach…!!! I mean, ewww…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  27. has his personal fingerprints all over it.

    Real leaders don’t need to point out how good they are leading. They are too busy leading.

    Kishnevi (98ea1b)

  28. Everyone working in this Administration has learned to nod along with whatever Trump says, or they won’t be working.

    DRJ (15874d)

  29. 2020 Wuhan Virus – 40 deaths
    2009 H1N1 Virus – 12,000 deaths

    First off, it’s 50, at the time of you saying 40. Second, 12,000 over the entirety of the 2009 outbreak, which was actually 14 months, we’re currently 7 weeks in, and since we haven’t even tested 10k people, you’re entire point is…well, there is none.

    7 weeks in for the 2009 outbreak had an infection rate at week 7 of 43 infected people per day, vs 743 a day at the same point, so at equal points, it’s 20X. In week 18 it peeked at 3200.

    Why are you trying to minimize a thing that exists in reality, do you have the same deficiency as Trump, are you just a basic troll, or are you working the overnight shift for the FSB?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  30. 18. “Again, testing for what? Testing doesn’t cure you. Testing doesn’t mean you won’t get the disease TOMORROW. Again, testing who and testing why? Some people need to be tested. Got symptoms get tested. But screeching that EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED is moronic. I’m tired of hearing dummies on TV and the papers just parrot nonsense.”

    Testing to see if people have the virus. So that people who are found to have it can take care not to infect others, esp more vulnerable others.

    JRH (52aed3)

  31. These people will not tell the truth if Trump has the coronavirus.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  32. These people will not tell the truth if Trump has the coronavirus.

    No, but if he ends up with bilateral interstitial pneumonia it will be hard to explain away.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. So, over 70, obese, signs of decreased mental faculties? Yes, we have a bed for you, but it’s in the Motel Six in Brentwood.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. Speaking of hotels and motels,

    On Thursday night Madrid set out an emergency plan to convert hotels to hospitals, install medical staff at old people’s homes and triple the number of intensive care beds.

    The hotels are empty because travel has halted, and this helps the hotels stay afloat and the government have more places to quarantine the less ill.

    DRJ (15874d)

  35. Trump should get tested. But if he had done so, the criticism would then be about how he has easy access to testing when the average Joe doesn’t, and how dare he put himself first, blah, blah, blah….

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  36. our president mr donald trump who is our president and his superior genes have a message for every dirty chineser cootie in failmerica

    come at me bro

    Dave (1bb933)

  37. Munroe’s right. Trump is a victim. Sure, the criticism is totally reasonable, but what if it wasn’t? Then it would be unreasonable! Proof that Trump is the victim of potential unreasonable criticism in this moment where he is criticized quite reasonably.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  38. On top of everything else, the Brazilian press secretary had even more contact with Trump:

    Mr. Wajngarten also stopped by the birthday party of Kimberly Guilfoyle, an adviser to Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign and the girlfriend of his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., a campaign aide said. Mr. Trump also attended the party.

    Also, several experts have offered their thoughts on the president’s decision:

    While the White House has indicated that its bar for testing the commander in chief is high, Dr. Judith N. Wasserheit, a professor of global health and medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle, recommended otherwise. “Because of the critical roles that the president and vice president play, it would be wise to have a low threshold for testing regardless of symptom status,” she said.

    Dr. Thomas File, the president of the Infectious Diseases Society of America, said that anyone within five feet of an infected individual for five minutes or more had potential exposure to the virus. The recommendation for someone who had exposure would be to “stay home and monitor themselves” for 14 days, Dr. File said. “If they develop symptoms, they would be tested.”

    Still, some experts warned the risk was high. “Any public figure, including the president, who really doesn’t want to get infected has to understand: They can no longer be in the public domain with person-to-person contact like this and not get infected,” said Dr. Michael Osterholm, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota. “This virus will penetrate into our population.”

    Why would the White House make the testing bar so high for the President? And if he refuses to be tested, why not opt for self-quarantine at least?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  39. Why would the White House make the testing bar so high for the President? And if he refuses to be tested, why not opt for self-quarantine at least?

    Apparently the size of his ego exceeds even his sense of self-preservation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. Optics take priority, per the WH:

    Photo ops of Mr. Trump or Mr. Pence getting tested, they said, would be inconsistent with a message that people should follow the recommendations of their doctors, and that healthy Americans are likely to stay healthy.

    If he self-quarantined, photo ops wouldn’t be a problem.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  41. Trump should get tested. But if he had done so, the criticism would then be about how he has easy access to testing when the average Joe doesn’t, and how dare he put himself first, blah, blah, blah….

    I wouldn’t think that about the president, but I do wonder how the Utah Jazz was able to secure 50+ tests within a day of the team member finding out he had coronavirus.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  42. I do wonder how the Utah Jazz was able to secure 50+ tests within a day of the team

    Because of State decisions, not Federal:

    The NBA did not receive special treatment for the Utah Jazz when it came to coronavirus testing in Oklahoma City on Wednesday, an Oklahoma State Department of Health official told USA TODAY Sports.

    Oklahoma officials were prepared with test kits, and 58 people from the Jazz or with connections to the Jazz were tested because it was a “public health decision” based on direct contact with the initial player — Rudy Gobert — who had tested positive, OKDH spokesperson Jamie Dukes said Friday.

    https://www.usatoday.com/5046539002

    Looks like persistent media reports about lack of tests because “Trump” are as wrong as everything else they pump out.

    BuDuh (5f05f9)

  43. Hope all you people voting for the baby butchering party can live with yourselves.

    mg (8cbc69)

  44. Trump broke his campaign promise to appoint pro-life judges to the Supreme Court.

    Twice.

    Dave (1bb933)

  45. @14

    Maybe he should get tested because he’s an old man who has been around multiple infected individuals. You know, like a non-moron might, just for self preservation,

    Getting tested doesn’t do anything to protect the person being tested. It has zero self preservation potential. Knowing you have it means you quarantine and reduce the spread.

    frosty (f27e97)

  46. Whats the incubation period for a person being contagious? Are you contagious if you do not have a temperature? Questions I have seen multiple answers to.

    The Presidents personal Dr says all is good. The “experts”? Their risk of running off at the mouth, making medical recommendation without knowing any of the facts, is zero.

    Worst case scenerio? The President is infected. So? The WH staff will self quarintine. Spread stopped.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  47. It has zero self preservation potential.

    It can’t protect them in the sense they already have it. Knowing they have it CAN protect them in the sense that all the very considerable medical support available to the POTUS can be called into play.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  48. My larger point. Focusing on this takes focus off real solutions to real issues. Mayors of major cities and Governors are praising the White House for their effectiveness is bringing solutions to their situations, and the White Houses actions in eliminating bureaucratic feet dragging, providing them with much needed flexibility.

    The largest most efficient response to COVID-19 will be done by govts closest to the people. A truth delivered By President Trump yesterday.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  49. Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/14/2020 @ 5:38 am

    How’s that summary execution of Lt. Col. Vindman going? Do you have the same expertise in medical matters as you displayed regarding military justice?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  50. I’m close to the side of “No test unless you are showing severe flu symptoms and your doctor needs to know what to treat you for”.

    If you are showing no symptoms, a negative test is meaningless, unless you are immediately going into isolation for the next year or two. Okay, so you don’t have it now. It doesn’t mean you won’t catch it the next time you leave the house or even answer the doorbell. So … are you going to test yourself every day?

    nk (1d9030)

  51. Kevin B:
    “No, but if he ends up with bilateral interstitial pneumonia it will be hard to explain away.”

    Thanks for the comment.

    When did President Trump meet these people? Saturday? Sunday? If Saturday and we don’t include that day, we’re going on Day 7.

    The best available, recent research shows that the “The median incubation period was estimated to be 5.1 days (95% CI, 4.5 to 5.8 days), and 97.5% of those who develop symptoms will do so within 11.5 days (CI, 8.2 to 15.6 days) of infection.”

    see https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2762808/incubation-period-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-from-publicly-reported

    Fury (a5aa27)

  52. The Fox Business anchor Trish Regan, whose on-air dismissal of the coronavirus as “another attempt to impeach the president” left her cable network facing a firestorm of criticism this week, has been removed from her prime-time slot for the foreseeable future, the network said on Friday…

    Fox Business attributed the move to “the demands of the evolving pandemic crisis coverage,” saying it was shifting resources toward daytime coverage of the pandemic and global markets. Both “Trish Regan Primetime” and its follow-up at 9, “Kennedy,” will be replaced by general-interest programs.

    Still, the abrupt removal of Ms. Regan — a reliably pro-Trump personality who has twice interviewed the president — came as right-wing media stars have faced growing scrutiny for commentary that played down fears about the coronavirus and suggested that the illness had been overhyped by President Trump’s critics.

    Welp, live by the T-rump, die by the T-rump.

    I don’t look for them to jerk a knot in Seanenne Hannity’s stupid tail, though they should. Still, he will lose a lot of cred with those of his viewers who can still think.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  53. Ok, this is interesting. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/britain-takes-different-approach-coronavirus-outbreak-leaving-some-asking-why-n1157831 Britain is taking the “Keep Calm And Carry On” approach. I approve.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. I think a positive test means more than quarantine. I think treating doctors would be more aggressive with checking/testing the patient’s vital organs, especially the lungs, and watching for secondary infections.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Totally related. This is how rich jerkoffs become the world’s richest jerkoff

    Is grocery store for true believers modeled on glorious example of Soviet Russia!

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”

    Is bring tear to eye, comrade.

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. Testing for a disease should be based on careful medical opinion. However, Mr. Trump is more than just another old guy; as President he is the leader working in close contact with important government officials. He should be tested and watched closely to prevent a major outbreak among our nation’s leadership. No medical reason for Donald J to be tested; lots of reasons for President Trump to be tested.

    Fred (c46b99)

  57. I was told by a Brit yesterday that some parents are intentionally trying to expose their kids so “they can get this out of the way” like people used to do with chicken pox. Never mind that the parents are not immune to this like they were in days of old to chicken pox or the mumps.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. Apparently the size of his ego exceeds even his sense of self-preservation.

    The level of his stupidity may exceed his ego, actually. This isn’t a Schroedinger’s cat thing, where you don’t have it if you don’t test for it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. Hope all you people voting for the baby butchering party can live with yourselves.

    I hope all you voting to saddle the better party with this witless fool can live with yourselves.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. I was told by a Brit yesterday that some parents are intentionally trying to expose their kids so “they can get this out of the way” like people used to do with chicken pox. Never mind that the parents are not immune to this like they were in days of old to chicken pox or the mumps.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/14/2020 @ 8:58 am

    I understand the notion, but that is seriously misguided. There should be a constant discussion of slowing the rate of elderly catching the illness and overwhelming hospitals.

    As far as Trump getting tested goes… does he have any symptoms? If he doesn’t, what’s the point of testing him? I guess they could announce he’s really sick in hopes it reduces our nation’s panic (*not joking*.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  61. Looks like persistent media reports about lack of tests because “Trump” are as wrong as everything else they pump out.

    The lack of tests were because the CDC was defending its bureaucratic turf, insisting on being the sole testing authority. And the kits it was sending out were buggered. Apparently the kits it is now sending out are still buggered. Thankfully, other sources are now creating their own test kits that are better and more reliable — and that was an administrative override to the CDC.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. I understand the notion, but that is seriously misguided. There should be a constant discussion of slowing the rate of elderly catching the illness and overwhelming hospitals.

    We are in violent agreement here.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. I think a positive test means more than quarantine. I think treating doctors would be more aggressive with checking/testing the patient’s vital organs, especially the lungs, and watching for secondary infections.

    Depends on the patient. With someone like Trump, older, out of shape and theoretically important, they would be monitoring him 24/7 and have the best available care standing by.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. If you recover from coronavirus are you then immune to it? I know that sounds obvious but I don’t want to make an assumption.

    I wonder if we should plan ahead by registering confirmed recoveries and giving them an online class on caring for patients, in case we do have thousands of pop up hospitals in need of help. The folks that catch it first will be travelers, but the ones who get it second will be frontline workers. Folks who need a paycheck and are willing to work.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  65. Better late than never, I guess:

    The White House has begun checking the temperatures of anyone in close contact with President Donald Trump or Vice President Mike Pence.

    White House staff met reporters at the door of the press briefing room with a thermometer, checking the temperatures of everyone coming in for a noon conference called by Pence.

    A man who appeared to be a journalist was blocked from entering because his 99.9 degree temperature was too high.

    “Out of an abundance of caution, temperature checks are now being performed on any individuals who are in close contact with the President and Vice President.” White House spokesman Judd Deere said in a statement.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  66. 2020 Wuhan Virus – 40 deaths
    2009 H1N1 Virus – 12,000 deaths

    Misleading and dishonest. There were 14,286 deaths worldwide in 2009, and you’re comparing that to just number of deaths in the US from the Wuhan virus (which is actually now at 49). The number of worldwide deaths from the current virus is 5,609 and counting.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  67. That’s a good question, Dustin. I’ve been wondering the same thing. According to this report, it might depend on one’s immune system:

    “Once you have the infection, it could remain dormant with minimal symptoms,” Philip Tierno Jr., professor of microbiology and pathology at New York University, told Reuters last month.

    “And then you can get an exacerbation if it finds its way into the lungs,” he said.

    Scientists agree reinfection is an unlikely explanation for patients who test positive a second time, according to the Los Angeles Times, and note the possibility that testing errors, and releasing patients from hospitals too prematurely, are more likely the reason for reports of patients who retest positive.

    “If you get an infection, your immune system is revved up against that virus,” Keiji Fukuda, director of Hong Kong University’s School of Public Health, told the Los Angeles Times. “To get reinfected again when you’re in that situation would be quite unusual unless your immune system was not functioning right.”

    Fukuda told the paper that it’s more likely patients are being released from hospitals while carrying dormant fragments of the disease that are not infectious, but resemble the virus when tested.

    “The test may be positive, but the infection is not there,” he said.

    In a hearing before the House Oversight and Reform Committee on Thursday, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, was asked if people who have contracted the virus might now be immune.

    “We haven’t formally proved it, but it is strongly likely that that’s the case,” Fauci said. “Because if this acts like any other virus, once you recover, you won’t get reinfected.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  68. Thanks Dana!

    And thanks all of you guys for fixing the comments. JVW especially but everyone. The blog is going to get a lot more traffic now that many are taking a few days off.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  69. But:

    People who recover after being infected with the novel coronavirus can still be left with substantially weakened lung capacity, with some left gasping for air when walking quickly, doctors in Hong Kong have found.

    The Hong Kong Hospital Authority made the findings after studying the first wave of patients who were discharged from the hospital and had fully recovered from COVID-19.

    Out of 12 people in the group, two to three saw changes in their lung capacity.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. That’s terrible, DRJ.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  71. From what I’ve read and been told, the virus can cause short-term (or maybe long-term) scarring or swelling in the lungs, especially in people with heart, kidney or lung problems.

    DRJ (15874d)

  72. Trump took the rest, results pending.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  73. Hospitalization is generally not for the normal run of the disease, but for “bilateral interstitial pneumonia” which sets in when the virus is not suppressed by a strong immune system.

    This scars the lungs pretty badly and will invariably lead to respiratory failure if there is no intervention. Even with a respirator and intensive care, people die if their system cannot fight it. Those that survive still have the scarred lungs and decreased capacity. Some of this can be recovered, but not always.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. If you recover from [Covid-19] are you then immune to it? I know that sounds obvious but I don’t want to make an assumption.

    Good question. There are many coronaviruses. It’s a type. Some are involved in the “common” cold. I’m worried that this is more like the flu of the cold, where you can get it again and again because it mutates. So, maybe you’re immune to Covid-19, but that doesn’t help you with Covid-23.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. *flu OR the cold

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. I agree that pneumonia is probably the most common reason for hospitalization since this virus attacks the lungs, but there are other complications such as problems with blood clotting, sepsis, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), acute cardiac injury, acute kidney injury and the secondary infection. One patient in Houston was admitted for gastrointestinal pain and diarrhea as his initial symptoms. Eleven healthcare workers had to be quarantined because his initial presentation was so unusual and he was not tested until after he had been released.

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. Getting tested doesn’t do anything to protect the person being tested. It has zero self preservation potential. Knowing you have it means you quarantine and reduce the spread.

    This is only partly true. For an older person, the danger is it turning into pneumonia, so the knowledge means one can get the rest they need, the fluids they need, and whatever drugs are available (I’d at lest TRY tamiflu). Once pneumonia sets in things get critical in a hurry.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. We know it mutates. It already did that in Wuhan.

    DRJ (15874d)

  79. DRJ–

    From what I hear out of Italy, entire hospitals are filled with pneumonia patients. God help you if you were supposed to get chemo or a heart bypass.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. The CDC insisted for weeks that screening include foreign travel to specific areas, and doctors have used that as a reason to refuse testing. Once we started getting domestic cases, the foreign travel requirement should have been immediately dropped nation-wide. Our society is far too mobile to think that foreign travel matters but domestic travel doesn’t. Yet my community still requires foreign travel as a requirement for testing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. They obviously aren’t getting treatment in Italy, especially since everyone is on lockdown. Spain tried to learn from Italy. Madrid is triaging its hospitals (and some hotels) with serious virus cases in the best hospitals and other hospitals reserved for people who don’t have coronavirus but need care. Hotels are for quarantined patients needing care but not intense care. This system is letting Madrid (but not the rest of Spain) continue to provide care, even though it is facing almost as bad a situation as Italy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  82. Also, Madrid is using public and private hospitals. I assume it did this using emergency powers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  83. The Spanish government is not cooperating with local Madrid officials, probably because they are governed by different political parties. The Spanish government dithered so Madrid stepped up. I hope it works.

    DRJ (15874d)

  84. Meanwhile, Spain is going on lockdown:

    The Spanish government will use the declaration of a state of emergency over the coronavirus to lock down the country, ordering people to stay at home unless they need to buy food or medicine or go to work or a hospital, according to local media reports on Saturday.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  85. There were 14,286 deaths worldwide

    I may be reading your link incorrectly, Paul. The worldwide number I saw there was much higher.

    BuDuh (bc7703)

  86. Memo to Mitt:

    Willard wonders why SK can test so many people and America can’t seem to organize a similar response.

    Here’s why: The South Korean healthcare system is run by the Ministry of Health and Welfare and is free to all citizens at the point of delivery. The system is funded by a compulsory National Health Insurance Scheme that covers 97% of the population. Foreign nationals living in South Korea enjoy the same access to universal healthcare as the local people. – source,wikiswabnose

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. This isn’t a Schroedinger’s cat thing, where you don’t have it if you don’t test for it.

    Don’t be so sure.

    Remember, to a stable genius, people numbers with the virus don’t exist if they’re on a cruise ship a mile off-shore.

    Dave (1bb933)

  88. I know I’m late to the party but I still wanted to chime in on this. I am almost completely certain that this president has no understanding of this disease. My proof of this is by my count 5 times during his press conference on Friday he denied he had Corona virus because he had no symptoms. This is contrary to everything we know about this disease at this point. Also on that note why is the President and the Vice President standing side by side at a presser? These two should not be in physical contact with each other. If the Pres gets sick he would infect the VP and then theoretically, heaven forbid, leadership of the government would fall to Pelosi. Lastly, the Pres is not an average American, he and the VP should be tested daily. If they get sick then appropriate action should taken.

    anounymouse (e2ed1b)

  89. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau did not get tested for this even though his wife tested positive and he is self-quarantining with her. Because he did not meet the standard criteria Canada has for testing.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  90. This isn’t a Schroedinger’s cat thing, where you don’t have it if you don’t test for it.

    Yes it is. If you don’t test for it, the people in contact with you don’t need to be is isolation. If Trump tested positive, the whole executive branch of the U.S. government would have to do things virtually.

    Schroedinger’s cat actually is uncertainty. This is not quite like Leviticus 14:36.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  91. There are many coronaviruses.

    Four of them that cause colds, or are considered to, plus SARS (which may be extinct) and MERS, and this is SARS2. There are others maybe that have so far (mostly?) infected only animals.

    Previously, I said there were five but I misunderstood a statement that there were four known coronovirus cold viruses. So there are seven that are known and this is coronovirus #7 not #5.

    The virus is called severe respiratory acute syndrome coronovirus 2, or SARS-Cov-2 for short, but the disease probably thanks to successful Chinese lobbying of the World Health Organization, is called Covid-19.

    Covid stands for COronoVIrus Disease. The number 19 stands for the year 2019. Donald Trump simply calls it the Wuhan virus, if he gives it a name.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  92. Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/14/2020 @ 5:38 am

    Whats the incubation period for a person being contagious?

    That is something I don’t see any real answers to. I think they are afraid to give the green light where they might be wrong.

    But today on Face the Nation Dr. Anthony Fauci said that if you were in the same room with someone who three days later (you learn?) tested positive, the chances of having gotten the disease are very very small.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  93. I love my State but part of love means being able to see the good and the bad. This is very bad, and it is happening all over Texas:

    She’s a Texas nurse who treats cancer patients — and she can’t get a coronavirus test. That’s not unusual.

    Unless a patient is sick enough to be hospitalized, state criteria for lab testing are difficult to meet. And state officials have yet to say how many Texans in total have been tested.

    They won’t test in my region, either. It is absurd.

    DRJ (15874d)

  94. Testing has nothing to do with nationalized healthcare. Private labs are available right now. The breakdown isn’t with labs, it is with getting the specimens. Hospitals don’t want sick people waiting in lines and contaminating their facilities and staff. Ditto doctors’ offices. The places that are doing testing have set up mobile labs or parking lot labs to do nasal swabs and get testing specimens.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. Nasal swabs are simple to do, but we need Hazmat suits and containment to safely do it with this disease. That seems to be something hospitals can’t deal with outside an ICU setting, and doctors/labs aren’t willing to pay for or risk doing. I know we can figure this out. Some places already have. But the first step to fixing it is seeing the problem.

    DRJ (15874d)

  96. DRJ, they’ve only tested 51 people in the whole state of Texas, which is absolutely outrageous. No excuse.
    I know I’m sounding like a homeboy, but if a virus were to land on American shores, one of the best places it could happen is the Seattle area. The UW Medical Center, Fred Hutchinson and other facilities are top-notch. It was unfortunate that LifeCare Center in Kirkland got hit before we could appropriately react to what was going on, but it could’ve been way worse.
    And to date, 7,764 individuals have been tested in WA State, almost one-third the nationwide number (24,146).

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  97. 24,000 down, another 976,000 to go, at the very minimum.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  98. Technically, 51 have been diagnosed with coronavirus in Texas as of yesterday, but it is 63 today, and more than that have been tested. But clearly not enough have been tested, to be sure. Kudos to other states like Washington who have stepped up.

    We are slow to change in Texas, and slow to interfere in our neighbors’ lives. It may be that is part of why we are natural conservatives. But we learn from our mistakes and we can move mountains when we make our minds up. We will fix this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. 95.Testing has nothing to do with nationalized healthcare.

    Yes, it does. A NHS system has established protocols, infrastructure and organization in place to efficiently distribute and conduct testing– or whtever is necessary w/easy access to te citizenry. Worried people seeing their system at work w/easy access also quells fear. Half-azzed tents set up in Walmart parking lots does not.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. Yes, it does. A NHS system has established protocols, infrastructure and organization in place to efficiently distribute and conduct testing– or whtever is necessary w/easy access to te citizenry. Worried people seeing their system at work w/easy access also quells fear. Half-azzed tents set up in Walmart parking lots does not.

    Yep. The anti-national healthcare fanatics are plentiful here, I see.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  101. Doesn’t France, Italy and Spain have nationalized health care?

    As for Great Britain, the science advisor recommended intentionally limiting testing in order to conduct a herd immunity clinical trial. No informed consent, just do it because they could as the only health care game in town. Leaders like that who tell us to ignore the disease while we are the guinea pigs instill far more fear.

    DRJ (15874d)

  102. Our parking lot President and the UK’s science advisor would get along great. Thankfully Trump hasn’t hired him, yet.

    DRJ (15874d)

  103. As for Great Britain, the science advisor recommended intentionally limiting testing in order to conduct a herd immunity clinical trial. No informed consent, just do it because they could as the only health care game in town. Leaders like that who tell us to ignore the disease while we are the guinea pigs instill far more fear.

    I watched the interview, he was talking about the theoretical possibility of how herd immunity could work, like with the flu over a few thousand years, but there is the impracticability of isolating the low risk and high risk populations since 84% of the people providing care to the high risk community are in the low risk community.

    Then some dumbs expanded that into it being a recommendation, then the bots started amplifying it, then some pols started repeating it, now the sane people are trying to explain nuance and full explanations, which doesn’t work in the year 2020.

    Of course, if everyone 20 years older than me would just keel over, it would probably be fine, they’re all unproductive anyway. There is a small problem though, there are people 20 years younger than me who may make the same argument.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  104. @101. Yep. Too easy; the very arguments in opposition only strengthen the opposite rationale. Such is the reality unfolding before them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. was the chief science advisor speaking theoretically when he said the UK should not try to completely suppress Corinavirus but instead try to build up herd immunity? It seems unlikely since his next sentence was “Those are the key things we need to do”. That doesn’t sound theoretical to me, nor would the government have needed to disavow it so prominently.

    DRJ (15874d)

  106. I want to be fair to the science advisor. He also told people to self-isolate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. This is, I think, a balanced view of the discussion in the UK about developing herd immunity as part of the approach, while also trying to protect the vulnerable. In the UK, they urge caution for people over 70 but other places have told everyone to self-isolate.

    My guess is they believe it is unrealistic to expect everyone to self-isolate for months or years, so why not move on to herd immunity? It makes sense and is probably true, but there are consequences to that approach.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. DCSCA,

    Here is my point: Nationalized health can provide organized care to greater numbers of people, provided it has the money and resources. (Sometimes there isn’t enough money or resources so they have to ration care.) But organized delivery isn’t the only issue. Nationalized health care lets one group decide if you deserve care, even if there is enough money or resources for care. Too fat, unborn, smokers, cancer, too old? It is hard for excluded patients to find help in a nationalized system.

    DRJ (15874d)

  109. Yep. The anti-national healthcare fanatics are plentiful here, I see.

    As are freedom “fanatics”. Always good to see where the T-rump cult falls on an issue.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  110. 108. I think here that what he’s saying, or rather not saying but basing his reasoning on, is that it is a mathematical truism that the lower the R0, even if it achieved by isolation and other precautionary measures, the lower the percentage of the population that needs to have been infected to achieve a R0 level below 1.0.

    The only problem with that, is that if R0 is 1.3 it may take you longer to get 60% than if R0 is 2.4 and you want to get to 90%. But maybe more people would have better outcomes.

    He said you’d need to maintain the precautionary measures that pushed R0, not considring the immunity factor, down to 1.3 until the virus was really, really dead or until you had a vaccine that could raise the immune level to a higher number.

    You’d still want it gone.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  111. You can’t boil down a 20 minute complex discussion to a couple of sentences, or even 280 characters, describing complexity requires nuance, context is important.

    What he should have done is not speculate at all, we live in 2020, this reality exists, so any discussion from a person of authority needs to keep that in mind. It’s sad, but true.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  112. I agree, Colonel. I don’t think he had a malignant intent at all, and it is a complex topic. But if we are going to self-govern then we need to discuss complex topics. Thus, maybe he should also talk about the this danger:

    In Europe the general psychology too often reflects the ideology of development, the idea that the most serious threats to individual happiness have been definitively conquered. Why worry about an epidemic if you have excellent public hospitals available more or less for free? What no one considered was that a virus could bring this perfect system to the point of breakdown.

    The thing is, maybe that is what he was saying.

    DRJ (15874d)

  113. Maybe he was saying people can’t change their behavior, so the key is to develop herd immunity.

    DRJ (15874d)

  114. I’d like all the pro-national health care fanatics to go to their local public aid/medicaid office and just wait in line with the “beneficiaries” and then tell me if they want the people working there in charge of their health care. (If nothing else, you will be regaled by these dedicated public servants giving each other reviews of the movie, show, restaurant, or bar they had been at the night before, so it won’t be a total waste of your time.)

    nk (1d9030)


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