Patterico's Pontifications

2/28/2020

Trump Administration: Coronavirus Is Contained, So Relax and Turn Off Your Televisions

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:48 am



As the Democrats continue to hammer the stock market, it’s worth contemplating the importance of the credibility of an administration during a global pandemic. Big Media is not perfect, but in a situation like this the news media tends to perform a valuable function in terms of correcting misinformation and spreading accurate information. Calling the media “fake” and suggesting that people ignore it could actually be dangerous.

This morning I saw a couple of tweets. The first is Mick Mulvaney suggesting Americans should turn off their televisions for 24 hours.

I would suggest that paying attention to current events is increasingly important during a pandemic.

National Economic Council head Larry Kudlow says the Trump administration has “contained” the “caronavirus”, while the CDC has said of a spread of the virus in the U.S.: “It’s not so much of a question of if this will happen anymore but rather more of a question of exactly when this will happen.”

Americans will have to decide whether the Trump administration and its top officials like Kudlow would be more likely to put Donald Trump’s interests above those of the United States, and whether they would say false things to calm markets and benefit Trump politically. There is a rich history of material from the past three years with which Americans could make such a decision. A lot of it is in books.

Hey, you know what? Maybe Americans should turn off their televisions for 24 hours, and read one of those books.

156 Responses to “Trump Administration: Coronavirus Is Contained, So Relax and Turn Off Your Televisions”

  1. It’s an ‘own goal’ He could have just handled it like a competent leader and been just fine. But for whatever reason he’s just not capable of that. So instead of a common problem we can come together to work on we get another cultural hot point to be viewed through a political lens. Hopefully this isn’t any worse then another flu strain and the impacts are a low as possible.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  2. I don’t see the dichotomy between saying what’s true and saying what will “calm markets” because it will “benefit Trump politically.” The election isn’t until November, so what will benefit Trump politically is what will look good in hindsight 7 months from now, and that’s to not say things which will be proven false in the meantime.

    David Pittelli (7d543e)

  3. “WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential contenders are describing the federal infectious-disease bureaucracy as rudderless and ill-prepared for the coronavirus threat because of budget cuts and ham-handed leadership by President Donald Trump. That’s a distorted picture. For starters, Trump hasn’t succeeded in cutting the budget.

    He’s proposed cuts but Congress ignored him and increased financing instead. The National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention aren’t suffering from budget cuts that never took effect.”

    AP FACT CHECK: Democrats distort coronavirus readiness

    https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  4. I remember when Kudlow was a respected conservative economist. Not now. He’s become just another T-rumpian toady.

    This is really what the great saying, “Power corrupts…” is really all about. It was not about the power in the holder of the power, but about those around that person being corrupted by power.

    Such a shame…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  5. What would be Trumps motivation to hinder the CDC, etal? Their budgets are in the $billions, because, we are told, very smart people game 100’s of potential situations, and then spend a portion of those $billions staging supplies and hiring persons with Training and experience to implement those plans.
    To somehow make a claim that the President is somehow hindering the Experts doing their job lacks any actual evidence to make that claim.

    Iowan2 (1c4a14)

  6. “There is a rich history of material from the past three years with which Americans could make such a decision.“

    True. As with most events the past three years, it doesn’t become a 24/7 news item unless the path to hammer Trump has been blazed.

    Note that the pandemic potential of the virus has been known for a month and a half, but only now is there a post devoted to it. Gee, I wonder why.

    Calming markets and the public would seem to be sensible, unless irrational panic serves some higher purpose Trump critics place above it. Now, what would that be?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  7. Maybe sometimes we need mommy to tell us “Don’t worry, everything is all right.” Especially when people who don’t really care about us, who only care about how they can use a crisis to their advantage, try to panic us.

    nk (1d9030)

  8. Calling the media “fake” and suggesting that people ignore it could actually be dangerous. –Patterico

    And this is what I mean when warning about Duh Donald’s march through our institutions. We need them. There are reasons they exist.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  9. Obama did the same thing with Ebola. I resented him for it, like a good Republican should have, but I also saw what the panic did to innocent, uninfected people, like that nurse who was locked up by both New Jersey and Maine.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. Calming markets and the public would seem to be sensible, unless irrational panic serves some higher purpose…

    Are those really the binary in your brain? No middle, huh?

    Calming the markets by lying to people could backfire. I’d say WOULD backfire.

    This is the kind of circumstance where having a reputation for integrity and ACTUALLY managing in the best interests of the nation (instead of what we get from your man-crush) would shine.

    What we get is the crap-encrusted deal of the thug in the Oval Office.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  11. @5, why attribute to malice what can readily be explained by incompetence?

    The cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.

    That same year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was forced to slash its efforts to prevent global disease outbreak by 80% as its funding for the program began to run out…

    Also cut was the Complex Crises Fund, a $30 million emergency response pool that was at the secretary of state’s disposal to deploy disease experts and others in the event of a crisis. (The fund was created by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.)…

    The effects of those cuts are being felt today. While the CDC announced plans to test people with flu-like symptoms for COVID-19, those have been delayed and only three of the country’s 100 public-health labs have been able to test for coronavirus. The administration’s request for additional funding came roughly two weeks after officials said HHS was almost out of funding for its response to the virus.

    Maybe Pence will be able to marshal resources to address this quickly. I hope so. Maybe it will turn out not to be that bad in the US (that will be even better). Maybe it will turn out to be not that bad anywhere, that would be best of all. But if it turns out to be bad I don’t have confidence that the president, or his administration will be honest with me about the risks or what they’re doing in response.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  12. Heh! I just saw that Obama’s Ebola Czar is in the news right now. He was a political operative with zero medical expertise. His expertise was in dealing with the news media and with influencing public opinion. And he did that very competently for Obama. If only Trump could find somebody like that: “Where’s my Ron Klain?”

    nk (1d9030)

  13. True. As with most events the past three years, it doesn’t become a 24/7 news item unless the path to hammer Trump has been blazed.

    Did you miss all the Coronovirus stuff before? Have you been living under a rock or something?

    Time123 (7cca75)

  14. Maybe sometimes we need mommy to tell us “Don’t worry, everything is all right.” Especially when people who don’t really care about us, who only care about how they can use a crisis to their advantage, try to panic us.

    In the present situation, which people “really care about us” rather than just aiming to do what’s to their own advantage?

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  15. The problem imo isn’t that Pence is in charge of coordinating the response. I’m sure he’ll do a good job. It’s that he was appointed late and will likely be hindered by the need to make sure that nothing they do could be perceived as reflecting badly on The president or his current position.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  16. The operative clause is “people … try to panic us”.

    nk (1d9030)

  17. Time123 (7cca75) — 2/28/2020 @ 8:47 am

    Ah yes.

    Then: Trump has done nothing about the national debt!
    Now: Trump slashed the CDC budget. What incompetence!

    Make up your mind.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  18. Note that the pandemic potential of the virus has been known for a month and a half, but only now is there a post devoted to it. Gee, I wonder why.

    Maybe it has something to do with the strange coincidence of the presser by your man-crush, and the BS from his toadies today.

    Makes you wanna go Hmmm…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  19. @17

    Both are true. Trump has been terrible for the national debt. Trump has also made cuts to a program that it appears we need. He’s failed both times. Because governing well is hard and he’s bad at it.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  20. The thing is, this is probably a fair summary of what he is actually being told:

    https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-27-20-intl-hnk/h_cff8c5a607ff3f66be40cc4f1f9257bf

    “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear. And from our shores, you know, it could get worse before it gets better. Could maybe go away. We’ll see what happens. Nobody really knows.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  21. 17, 18. Yeah, when did the orange show any concern about the coronavirus before the markets turned? Beyond telling Kellyanne: “That’s the Mexican beer? I never had one. I don’t drink beer.”

    nk (1d9030)

  22. “Did you miss all the Coronovirus stuff before? Have you been living under a rock or something?”
    Time123 (7cca75) — 2/28/2020 @ 8:49 am

    John Bolton changed his name to Coronovirus? When??

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  23. 11.The cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.

    Hint. Just because a person is awarded a position, with a powerful sounding name, is not evidence they actually are accountable for anything. The bureaucracy has long ago figured out how the swell their ranks with positions that have little, if any utility.

    Iowan2 (1c4a14)

  24. John Bolton changed his name to Coronovirus? When??

    Ironically, I’d bet Duh Donald has spent more time on Bolton than on the virus.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  25. We never talk about the top five topics Munroe wants us to talk about.
    1. How great Trump is.
    2. How great Trump is.
    3. How great Trump is.
    4. How great Trump is.
    5. How great Trump is.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. https://www.newser.com/story/287533/dog-in-hong-kong-tests-positive-for-coronavirus.html

    Dog Quarantined After Testing Positive for Coronavirus

    It’s unclear whether dog in Hong Kong is really infected

    …. Authorities say the pet dog of a 60-year-old coronavirus patient tested “weak positive” for coronavirus, Reuters reports. They say it is possible that the dog licked an infected surface or that the nasal and oral samples were contaminated, possibly by bodily fluids from the human patient, and more tests will be carried out. Sophia Chan, Hong Kong’s health secretary, says authorities do not “have sufficient evidence to say that this particular pet would transmit to other people or pets, but it’s important for them to quarantine this particular dog and also continue their testing with the dog,” reports RTHK. Authorities say that from now on, pets of infected people will be quarantined for 14 days, the New York Times reports.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  27. Hint. Just because a person is awarded a position, with a powerful sounding name, is not evidence they actually are accountable for anything.

    Pro tip: That’s what executives do…they MANAGE people, and if a position is not being filled by someone good at their duties, they FILL the position with someone who IS.

    IF a position is merely a dunsail, eliminating it is sound management. But only when done by a sound manager.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  28. Yes, unfortunately, dogs get the same colds and flus that humans do. (I first read it in Stephen King’s The Stand.)

    nk (1d9030)

  29. Mulvaney is already on double-secret probation for telling a conference in Brexitland that “the US was hungry for more immigrants“. Of course he’s showing out with the enthusiastic repeat of the company line to make amends.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  30. Yes, unfortunately, dogs get the same colds and flus that humans do. (I first read it in Stephen King’s The Stand.)

    A plague that wiped out dogs and cats was the basis for the 4th installment of the Planet of the Apes films.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  31. I’m okay with the Trump administration’s handling so far… no matter how much you dislike Trump, can we at least agree that the response has be measured so far?

    To me, it seems that it’s Democrats/anti-Trumpers who’s politicizing this.

    One thing that does concern me, is that there were reports that this administration is considering to invoke a 1950 era law to force companies to product specific products to avoid shortages. That’s… not something that I’d advocate for at this team.

    What we ought to have a national conversation, is if we have domestic manufacturing capabilities to supply equipment/medicines in case of epidemic. I don’t think we’ve honestly had that…case in point: When Puerto Rico got hammered from Hurricane Maria, it knocked out a Baxar manufacturing plant that made various pre-mixed sterile IV fluid products for the US. That was the *only* manufacturing plant of this kind that supplies the US. This caused enormous shortages for US Hospitals that the industry scrambled to staff up to make it themselves while industry leaders worked with the FDA to allow European products into the US.

    We need Congressional leaders to address this. I’m not sure if Trump, nor any President, should be the one to spearhead this. (other than have a bloody fricking plan to get that one Baxar plant operational after a hurricane, but that’s another discussion). This probably requires massive incentives for companies to build their stuff in the US, along with FDA regulatory changes to support this mission.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  32. 27, Pro tip: That’s what executives do…they MANAGE people, and if a position is not being filled by someone good at their duties, they FILL the position with someone who IS.

    Close but due to your lack of experience, effective managers evaluate work forces and eliminated positions and sectors that no longer fill any need. Real managers utilize attrition to the benefit of the group.
    Again, Govt it morbidly obese with positions that no longer, or, really never, provided output for the investment.
    Post 9-11 creation of Homeland Security, and the NSC, were great places for the bureaucracy to reward themselves with high paying, low responsibility, high power positions.

    Iowan2 (1c4a14)

  33. @32: Reagan’s attempt to gut the Department of Education was surely driven by his antipathy to educating kids.

    Munroe (866ee4)

  34. Whembly

    I’m okay with the Trump administration’s handling so far… no matter how much you dislike Trump, can we at least agree that the response has be measured so far?
    To me, it seems that it’s Democrats/anti-Trumpers who’s politicizing thi

    s.

    Can we agree that they both are? Cuz that’s what I see.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  35. Close but due to your lack of experience, effective managers evaluate work forces and eliminated positions and sectors that no longer fill any need. Real managers utilize attrition to the benefit of the group.

    Well, I do have both experience and an MBA.

    You really should read stuff before you comment with a contradiction that you then agree with.

    Jes’ sayin’…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  36. @34

    Can we agree that they both are? Cuz that’s what I see.

    Time123 (f5cf77) — 2/28/2020 @ 10:10 am

    At this point no I don’t agree with that. No, I realize that may change the longer this goes on…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  37. Reagan’s attempt to gut the Department of Education was surely driven by his antipathy to educating kids.

    Typical off-point deflection using an inapposite example.

    Why bother, except just to troll?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  38. Munroe (866ee4) — 2/28/2020 @ 9:51 am @32:

    Reagan’s attempt to gut the Department of Education was surely driven by his antipathy to educating kids.

    That is a pretty ridiculous comment I think.

    And where do you see he wanted ti gut it? He wanted tio abolish the department that does not mean abandoning what it does just taking it out of the Cabinet. Where it has no reason to be. The Teacher’s Union wanted it so they coukld hob nob with people in the same position in other countries.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  39. Trump had to make it about him.

    Hey guys remember when Trump fans told us economic good news is Trump’s accomplishment? And now they tell us bad news has nothing to do with him?

    Dustin (eeef07)

  40. Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/28/2020 @ 10:26 am

    It was sarcasm, Sammy.

    Munroe (866ee4)

  41. https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/donald-trump-libel-lawsuit-new-york-times-losing-battle/

    T-rump spends his time with pure crap that is ONLY about him. Just as predicted by people (raises paw) back in 2015.

    Not good.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  42. 4.I remember when Kudlow was a respected conservative economist. Not now. He’s become just another T-rumpian toady.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/03/business/a-wall-st-star-s-agonizing-confession.html

    Remember harder: when ‘The Snowman’ was just another coked out Reaganomics supply sider; a Wall Street drug addict who go it wrong, got his azz fired from his $800K/year Bear Stearns gig because of his wholly illegal, $100,000/month cocaine habit– and got away w/no prison time. He went to business media instead–then the Trump Administration.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/28/2020 @ 10:36 am

    Trump spent two years on collusion crap you snd the NYT swallowed whole.

    Munroe (866ee4)

  44. The operative clause is “people … try to panic us”.

    The descriptive clause is this:

    who don’t really care about us, who only care about how they can use a crisis to their advantage

    The implication was that the people saying “Everything is all right” are the opposite kind of people, who do care about us and do not act mostly for their own advantage.
    Donald Trump is the actor in this drama who most obviously and unabashedly puts his self-interest above all else, and who apparently doesn’t even understand why that might be wrong. It’s folly to trust his “everything’s contained” assurances any more than the “everyone panic” alarms, especially when it’s known that he is trying to muzzle experts like Dr. Fauci.

    Whatever damage might come from sowing unnecessary panic, it’s also dangerous to have a president who is so regularly dishonest and so deeply self-serving.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  45. Pandemics are ‘Pure’ll,’ eh, Captain sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. Trump spent two years on collusion crap you snd the NYT swallowed whole.

    Sorry, sweet-lips. I never took a position on the collusion imbrogilo. Though as McCarthy points out, there WAS “collusion”. Read the whole thing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  47. I already distrust Trump, Radegunda. It’s the unholy glee the Democrats and their propagandists in the media are demonstrating that’s raising my hackles and making me distrust them more.

    nk (1d9030)

  48. Trump spent two years on collusion crap you snd the NYT swallowed whole.

    Munroe (866ee4) — 2/28/2020 @ 10:45 am

    No he was colluding with the Russians for more than 2 years.

    Oh oh… you mean you don’t think collusion really happened. That is so freaking hilarious. Dear Leader does no wrong! All who oppose him are evil!

    Dustin (eeef07)

  49. I already distrust Trump, Radegunda. It’s the unholy glee the Democrats and their propagandists in the media are demonstrating that’s raising my hackles and making me distrust them more.

    nk (1d9030) — 2/28/2020 @ 11:03 am

    Yeah good point. There are probably some Bernie Bros hoping and praying thousands of people get sick.

    Dustin (eeef07)

  50. COVID-19 isn’t going to be contained. The President is wrong. Most people will survive it, of course. It will hurt the economy and reduce his reelection chances.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  51. Best wishes that the American from the Diamond Princess has good results in the Sars-COVID-19 clinical trial with Remdesivir. I think the trial started Friday 2/21/2020 and lasts 10 days.

    DRJ (15874d)

  52. Poor Trump he’s wrong AGAIN say the trump haters and the Democrats. Has he EVER been right? Sads.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  53. Trump is doing EVERYTHING WRONG! If only we had Hillary in charge. Say the Never Trumpers. Oh well, maybe things will get better when Bernie gets in office.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  54. Rich Noyes
    @RichNoyes

    On Thursday, more than 60% of @CNN’s #coronavirus #covid19 related questions for guests were about Donald Trump.
    __

    TDS more viral than Coronavirus
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  55. Fortunately, everyone can see the Media/Democrat/NEver-trumper game from a mile away. This is supposed to be Trump’s Katrina. So from now on till November, expect to hear constant criticism about how Pence and Trump are DOING EVERYTHING WRONG!

    Even if there’s no pandemic and very few deaths, well, Trump will STILL be wrong. Just like he somehow, in some mysterious way, “Colluded” with Russia despite Zero Evidence found by Mueller.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  56. Yeah good point. There are probably some Bernie Bros hoping and praying thousands of people get sick.

    Beware of any mosh pit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t3pzRXxnaY

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  57. TDS more viral than Coronavirus
    _

    harkin

    So the news reporting the news is TDS because Trump wants us to ignore negative economic issues?

    Would have been wiser to distance himself from positive economic trends he had nothing to do with than to associate with it and then hope things just always work well on their own.

    Poor Trump he’s wrong AGAIN say the trump haters and the Democrats. Has he EVER been right? Sads.

    rcocean

    AKA do not pay close attention to criticism of dear leader because criticism of dear leader is inherently proof of someone’s ‘hate’

    Dustin (eeef07)

  58. I just noticed the post includes a take from Aaron Rupar, of internet tractor fame. LOL

    And, his take was to ridicule Trump officials for blaming media hype. Irony!

    Munroe (866ee4)

  59. Rcocean:

    The stock market does not have much confidence in Trump’s assurances. Trump’s problems with speaking the truth as well as the crackers way he runs the administration are catching up with him.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  60. “The stock market does not have much confidence in Trump’s assurances. ”

    Trump administration officials are holding preliminary conversations about economic responses to the coronavirus, as the stock market fell sharply again on Friday amid international fears about the outbreak, according to five people with knowledge of the planning.
    Among the options being considered are pursuing a targeted tax cut package, these people said. They have also discussed whether the White House should lean even harder on the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates, though the central bank on Friday afternoon said it would step in if necessary.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/28/trump-coronavirus-tax-cuts/

    Take 2 tax cuts and call me in the morning.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  61. Munroe (866ee4) — 2/28/2020 @ 10:45 am

    Trump spent two years on collusion crap

    Maybe he shouldn’t have announced on national TV that he fired the head of the FBI to stop a properly predicated investigation that resulted in multiple indictments & counter espionage findings?

    Naw, gotta be dEeP sTaTE(tm).

    Time123 (457a1d)

  62. R.I.P. Freeman Dyson, physicist and mathematician

    Icy (6abb50)

  63. The stock market does not have much confidence in Trump’s assurances. Trump’s problems with speaking the truth as well as the crackers way he runs the administration are catching up with him.

    So now “The Stock Market” after the biggest run up in American History in Dow points, doesn’t have much confidence in Trump? Doubtful. BTW, who speaks for “The Stock Market”? Can I take them out to lunch and have a talk?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  64. Bloomberg
    @business
    JUST IN: Pet dog found to have “low level’” of coronavirus in Hong Kong

    _

    2020 gonna be off the hook!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  65. CNN today:

    Pandemics don’t care about partisan politics

    CNN Feb 24

    Under Trump, America less prepared for Coronavirus
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  66. The stock market does not have much confidence in Trump’s assurances. Trump’s problems with speaking the truth as well as the crackers way he runs the administration are catching up with him.

    There are real concerns with the global supply chain that Trump has little power over. A large part of China has been shut down for weeks. There was inventory in transit to keep factories in the US running but that’s about to start running out. Companies have used the time to find alternative suppliers. That costs money and carries risk. The non-value added remediation plans are reduce other opportunities for those companies (and hence their future value) and the risk needs to be factored in.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  67. The S&P 500 had its worst week since the 2008 financial crisis, and other economic indicators are flashing warning signs.

    You can’t claim to be responsible for 100% of the run up, and not be responsible for the slide. You either own, or you don’t.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  68. “ Under Trump, America less prepared for Coronavirus”

    They’re not wrong.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  69. In two months, when the U.S. coronavirus hoax is over and nobody in this country has got it (other than the handful of immigrants who have already been detained), will the fakestream media (1) admit it was a politically-motivated fraud to depress the stock market, or (2) give Trump credit for saving us from the pandemic?

    Jenny from Iowa (df82bb)

  70. “You can’t claim to be responsible for 100% of the run up, and not be responsible for the slide. You either own, or you don’t.”
    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 2/28/2020 @ 1:34 pm

    You gave him credit for the run up, did you?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  71. In two months, when the U.S. coronavirus hoax is over and nobody in this country has got it (other than the handful of immigrants who have already been detained), will the fakestream media (1) admit it was a politically-motivated fraud to depress the stock market, or (2) give Trump credit for saving us from the pandemic?

    Jenny from Iowa (df82bb) — 2/28/2020 @ 1:41 pm

    I can’t tell if this is satire. It’s a hoax and Trump deserves credit for saving us from it.

    Dustin (eeef07)

  72. “ You gave him credit for the run up, did you?”

    Come on Monroe, I know your gimmick is “every post a straw man”, but it’s obvious to everyone that he’s talking about Trump claiming credit for the run up and blaming others for the drop.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  73. “They’re not wrong.”
    Davethulhu (94520c) — 2/28/2020 @ 1:39 pm

    What is it specifically that we’re lacking in preparedness, Mr. Thulhu?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  74. Munroe’s formulation, that if you didn’t give Trump insane credit for the economic trends that continued (and declined a bit) under his watch, you can’t criticize Trump for the economic problems the distrust he brings society are causing, is hilariously wrong on both sides. It also is a kneejerk attempt to immunize himself from his own behavior in fawning over Trump during the good times and also fawning over Trump during the bad times.

    It is easier to destroy than to build. Trump made a lot of promises and bashed a lot of opponents with these BS promises. He’s accomplished so little despite what he said he could do. He (and his Russian friends) have cleverly kept everything so hostile and heated that opposing him is organizationally difficult, and his best chance is his supporters voting for Bernie in the dem primary.

    Patriots these guys ain’t.

    Dustin (eeef07)

  75. “it’s obvious to everyone that he’s talking about Trump claiming credit for the run up and blaming others for the drop.”
    Davethulhu (94520c) — 2/28/2020 @ 1:54 pm

    Yes, that was indeed obvious.

    That this logic only works one way was the less than obvious part.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  76. I’m going to post this a 2nd time and bold the key bits

    There are real concerns with the global supply chain that Trump has little power over. A large part of China has been shut down for weeks. There was inventory in transit to keep factories in the US running but that’s about to start running out. Companies have used the time to find alternative suppliers. That costs money and carries risk. The non-value added remediation plans are reduce other opportunities for those companies (and hence their future value) and the risk needs to be factored in.

    Ford is down 20% since early feb, GM is down 10%, FCA is down 10%.

    The analysts that trade these stocks aren’t making decisions based on Trump. They’re looking at the impact on sales in China and the potential impact on production in the US.

    Trump didn’t make the stock market go up, he’s not making it go down. Things the US government does / doesn’t may have an impact on how the virus impacts us and he deserves blame or credit for how he handles it. But that’s about it.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  77. “ You gave him credit for the run up, did you?”

    How ’bout this. He had little to nothing to do with the run up, and he has little to nothing to do with the global impact of the virus.

    Now, the lack of preparation (the Coronavirus has been a global headline for 2 months now), having a press conference and creating a team to address it a month after the US evacuated citizens from Wuhan (exactly a month ago today), is a travesty. Only after a global financial meltdown did the administration actually begin to take it seriously.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  78. “What is it specifically that we’re lacking in preparedness, Mr. Thulhu?”

    Trump himself admitted it (in his typcial meandering, self-serving way) during his press conference.

    Q Your budgets have consistently called for enormous cuts to the CDC, the NIH, and the WHO. You’ve talked a lot today about how these professionals are excellent, have been critical and necessary. Does this experience at all give you pause about those consistent cuts?

    THE PRESIDENT: No, because we — we can get money and we can increase staff. We know all the people. We know all the good people. It’s a question I asked the doctors before. Some of the people we cut, they haven’t been used for many, many years. And if — if we have a need, we can get them very quickly.

    And rather than spending the money — and I’m a business person — I don’t like having thousands of people around when you don’t need them. When we need them, we can get them back very quickly. For instance, we’re bringing some people in tomorrow that are already in this, you know, great government that we have, and very specifically for this.

    We can build up very, very quickly. And we’ve already done that. I mean, we really have built up. We have a great staff. And using Mike, I’m doing that because he’s in the administration and he’s very good at doing what he does, and doing as it relates to this.

    The part I bolded is, of course, total BS. You don’t wait until a fire breaks out to establish a fire department. You can’t reassemble a department “very quickly” and expect it to perform like one that wasn’t disrupted.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  79. “I can’t tell if this is satire. It’s a hoax and Trump deserves credit for saving us from it.”

    Not satire:

    (1) If it’s a hoax (meaning the threat to the U.S. was deliberately invented by the media)), then the media might have to confess to it when it’s clear no one here was affected and the stock market recovers.

    (2) If the media then still wants to pretend that it wasn’t a hoax (which it is) , then they’ll have to give credit to Trump for saving the U.S. from its spread here.

    Jenny from Iowa (df82bb)

  80. Davethulhu (fab944) — 2/28/2020 @ 2:23 pm

    Thanks for your direct answer.

    The CDC, even if staffed and funded to the hilt, has little impact on what goes on in China, Korea, Italy and elsewhere. I don’t think the markets are being driven by concerns about a lack of containment within our borders, even if an incompetent president is at the helm. If there were zero cases in the US, the same level of pandemic uncertainty would exist and the market abhors uncertainty.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  81. …even if an incompetent president is at the helm.

    IF…!?!?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  82. The CDC, even if staffed and funded to the hilt, has little impact on what goes on in China, Korea, Italy and elsewhere.

    But, naturally, we’re not talking about just the cdc. As you well know.

    Of course the market reaction is not limited to…or primarily about…domestic concerns. But the markets are just ONE bellwether indicating where T-rump dropped the ball here.

    Some of the market reaction is not about UNcertainty. As noted above several times, there is certainty in some of the analysis concerning the effects of this mess.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  83. Jenny from Iowa (df82bb)

    Where did you get this “hoax” idea? Did that spring from your own imagination?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  84. Each of the following three propositions can be true simultaneously, without any contradictions:

    1) President Trump is a vainglorious incompetent.

    2) Coronavirus is being wildly overhyped by a profiteering and/or politically cynical media.
    3) The Democrats would happily instigate a financial meltdown over exaggerated public health fears, without losing one moment’s sleep over the harm they would cause, if they thought this might help them score electoral points in November.

    In fact, I believe all three of the above are true. Numbers 1 and 3 are absolute certainties. Number 2 is my considered opinion, supported by the fact that I live and work in South Korea, and have therefore been watching this media-fed hysteria up close for more than a week now.

    As I have been pointing out for days to anyone willing to calm down and listen, the numbers and scary-sounding vocabulary you are hearing right now seem ominous mainly because most of us never think about precise flu numbers or use words like “pandemic” in casual conversation.

    According to a medical study from a few years back, 2,900 Koreans die of influenza in a NORMAL year. This coronavirus has so far (as of this writing) killed 16 Koreans. That’s 16 deaths out of over 2,300 confirmed cases. And most of the confirmed cases were found through mass testing among a religious group in Daegu that is the source of most of the Korean infections, NOT because they were experiencing significant symptoms.

    And most of the 16 deaths, as is typical of any flu virus, have occurred among highly vulnerable groups — the old and weak, along with a group of poorly-cared-for patients at a single mental hospital, whose heavy medication undoubtedly wrecked their immune systems.

    I enjoy a good day’s Trump-bashing as much as the next guy, but this simply isn’t an issue which it would be fair to blame on Trump, or any president of any country — except of course the Chinese government, which deserves a lot of blame for covering up what they knew, and reacting too late to the appearance of the virus.

    In Korea, half a million citizens have signed a petition demanding the impeachment of President Moon over this. I don’t like him any more than I like Trump, but I can still see that this reaction is a ridiculous and irrational politicizing of a health issue — and a health issue that is being overhyped by a craven, irresponsible news media, for their own cynical material advantage.

    As for the advice to stop watching the news: To be honest, I have personally told a few Korean acquaintances of mine, after listening to their excessive fear over this “epidemic” — that word, by the way, is just a normal medical term meaning “outbreak,” as happens in EVERY flu season — to stop watching the news for a day or two, as a way of calming themselves down.

    What is the media going to tell you today that you need to know about this? They are going to tell you to panic (helpful?), that we’re all going to die (true, but not from this flu), and that Trump isn’t doing enough, which is pure political grandstanding.

    Calm down everyone. You have way bigger problems to deal with than this virus, uncomfortable as it may be to have a bad flu going around the neighborhood.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  85. Where did you get this “hoax” idea? Did that spring from your own imagination?

    Rush Limbaugh, Infowars, Trump. You know, honest people.

    I can’t understand if they’re saying there isn’t a coronavirus, it isn’t dangerous, isn’t dangerous in the US, or what.

    Is there are sun hoax, or a water is wet hoax. Just tagging things with the word hoax apparently is supposed to mean something.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  86. Mick Mulvaney suggesting Americans should turn off their televisions for 24 hours…

    So… ‘it was the TV’… eh, Mick?

    ‘Cause pandemic consultant Nurse Diesel said so, eh Mick? She knows you better than you know yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNKQBJZ8dOY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DosXB5TWfHc

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. According to a medical study from a few years back, 2,900 Koreans die of influenza in a NORMAL year. This coronavirus has so far (as of this writing) killed 16 Koreans. That’s 16 deaths out of over 2,300 confirmed cases. And most of the confirmed cases were found through mass testing among a religious group in Daegu that is the source of most of the Korean infections, NOT because they were experiencing significant symptoms.

    Coronavirus has a mortality rate almost exactly that of the Spanish Flu, 2-3%, 20X-30X worse than Influenza A and B. It is also just about as communicable as the flu. The Spanish flu killed approximately 1.7% of all humans on the planet.

    So saying it is “just the flu” does a disservice to just how deadly the flu is, it kills roughly 650k people a year, so being 20X that is the population of Ohio, 30X is the population of New York. Yes, the most likely to die are olds and the vulnerable, just like every other illness. Modern medicine is distinctly more effective in treatment of the side affects than can kill from the flu, but it is inarguable that something much more deadly, is still much more deadly.

    Wash your hands, cover your mouth, you’ll probably be fine, but people do that during flu season anyway, and tens of thousands die in the US every year.

    It’s not the death that effects the economy, its the effects that it has on society to minimize the risk. Avoiding travel, avoiding work, avoiding group events, all things that impact productivity, which impacts the economy, which is driving the futures market, i.e. wall street.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  88. our president mr donald trump who is president has stared death in the whatever by bravely engaging in unprotected sex with scuzzy pr0n stars and even marrying one

    what could he possibly have to fear from some failsauce low budget chineser cootie

    its kind of ridiculous

    Dave (7dbf87)

  89. 2) If the media then still wants to pretend that it wasn’t a hoax (which it is) , then they’ll have to give credit to Trump for saving the U.S. from its spread here.

    Why should they give credit to Trump and not to real Florida oranges, chicken soup, and central HVAC?

    nk (1d9030)

  90. “ The Democrats would happily instigate a financial meltdown over exaggerated public health fears, without losing one moment’s sleep over the harm they would cause, if they thought this might help them score electoral points in November.”

    How are they gonna do this? Or, I guess, how are they doing this, if you want to blame the current market drop on them?

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  91. Ill see your corona virus and raise you my granddaughters upcoming brain surgery.
    Sturge Weber Syndrome is a battle.

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. I am very sorry to hear that, mg. My best wishes for a successful operation and a speedy and complete recovery.

    nk (1d9030)

  93. @87:

    Coronavirus has a mortality rate almost exactly that of the Spanish Flu, 2-3%, 20X-30X worse than Influenza A and B. It is also just about as communicable as the flu. The Spanish flu killed approximately 1.7% of all humans on the planet.

    So saying it is “just the flu” does a disservice to just how deadly the flu is….

    First off, I am fully aware that the flu kills thousands of people around the world each year (most of them extremely vulnerable and weak people, naturally). That, in fact, is part of my point.

    In any case, we do not know the mortality rate of this coronavirus, in fact. The Chinese numbers suggest a rate similar to the one you cited, but those numbers are almost certainly unreliable with regard to the total number of confirmed cases, since the Chinese government has been trying to downplay the outbreak for international optics reasons. It is much harder to hide death totals (families know who is absent from the dinner table), so it is likely on the non-fatal confirmed cases side of the ledger that they are underreporting. That would imply that the real mortality rate in China will turn out to be lower than it currently appears.

    As for Korea, where I live, as you may notice from my previous comment, the mortality rate is much lower than the number you cited, less than 0.7% at the moment.

    And as many health agencies, and simple common sense, suggest, the mortality rate we are working with at the moment — whether the alarming Chinese rate (with untrustworthy numbers) or the much less alarming Korean rate (trustworthy) — will go down considerably over time, since confirmed cases are certainly going to be far fewer than actual cases (confirmed plus undiagnosed), once the dust settles and the medical number-crunchers can actually start using models and statistical estimates to get a clearer picture of how many people really had this virus, compared to how many died. Right now, we are working with raw numbers based on tested-and-confirmed cases, which of course skews the mortality rate higher.

    And a much higher percentage of fatal cases will be known in these early stages, for obvious reasons, whereas the far greater number of people who may have the virus but will show no symptoms, and will therefore never be diagnosed, is impossible to estimate at this point.

    My point about all of this is that the immediate, extreme-close-up view of the moment naturally distorts our perspective in the direction of catastrophe and fear, as is true of almost every negative event when it is still ongoing. It is the conservative attitude, in the best and deepest sense of that overused word, to remain circumspect, and observe events with rational and historical perspective, rather than allow ourselves to get caught up in the hype of popular opinion and the kneejerk reactions of unreflective voices.

    As for the economy, I agree that preventive measures cause harm, but the far greater (and unnecessary) damage is caused by overhyped mass hysteria. Believe me, I am watching it around me in Korea, where small businesses are laying off workers, and many even shutting down altogether, after just a couple of weeks of this non-stop fearmongering by the cynical news media. People are afraid to move, to shop, to pass strangers on the street.

    The extremes of life-altering and economy-crushing behavior are not related to ordinary flu precautions — there are flu epidemics every year, requiring the same precautions — but to the endless inundation in breathless reports of “new cases” and “another death” and “there was a case reported in my neighborhood yesterday.”

    In other words, fear is taking over. That is never a good thing, regardless of the circumstances.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  94. Sounds like the clinical trial worked. Both seriously ill patients have improved enough to be moved from the containment unit back to general quarantine.

    Best wishes, mg.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. “Where did you get this “hoax” idea? Did that spring from your own imagination?”

    The hoax is that it will spread widely to the U.S., not that it has already spread elsewhere. Read carefully!

    But no, okay, fine — you’re right. It HAS spread to the U.S., and there are 150 million deaths — the same number killed by guns in Bidenville.

    Jenny from Iowa (357dde)

  96. @91:

    How are they gonna do this? Or, I guess, how are they doing this, if you want to blame the current market drop on them?

    Fearmongering. Have you never noticed how much of modern democratic politics is rooted in such mass manipulation techniques? Seriously? Does the expression “Never let a crisis go to waste” ring a bell?

    Or haven’t you observed how often the modern Democratic Party exploits fears, and even stokes them, to achieve its ends? Remember “They’re gonna put y’all in chains”? That was the “moderate” Dem, Joe Biden.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  97. And keep in mind — the HIV infection rate in Swaziland is 27%!!! So we’re bound to lose another quarter of the population HERE to that too! SCIENCE 🤪🤪🤪🤪

    Jenny from Iowa (357dde)

  98. if the coronavirus was anything to worry about, mr. president trump who know how to deal with things, would have already dealt with it

    he would call it crazy corona

    or lyddle’ corona

    or even lyddle’ covfefe

    then he would threaten to primary it

    and it would just slink back to where it came from

    its hopes and dreams dashed

    nk (1d9030)

  99. The hoax is that it will spread widely to the U.S., not that it has already spread elsewhere. Read carefully!

    Oh, I read pretty carefully. What you just wrote makes no more sense than what you wrote previously.

    When nobody knows as much about this pathology as we DON’T know right now, I don’t see how media coverage could be a “hoax”, given what we DO know.

    There are some hoaxers…or propagandists…on the scene that we can identify. One…I am sorry to say…is the T-rump Cabana boi Rush Limbaugh. Another is Mulvaney. Shame on them.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. If .7% in South Korea, is in fact, the actual mortality rate, not that reported in China, also in Iran it is running over 8.5%, but just assuming .7%. That is 7X the influenza A-B.

    This flu season at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020. In 2017-18 it was 61,000, in 18-19 it was 34,200. So, if it is only as bad as .7%, and it’s as widespread, that’s merely 240,000-434,000 in a year. However less bad than X it is, it’s more bad than zero.

    Trying to minimize it isn’t helpful, it’s killing people, in South Korea, today, where you are, where Hyundai/Kia just shut down part of the Ulsan complex, hence high threat to the economy. South Korea announced 256 more cases today.

    South Korea–16/2337 .68%
    Italy–21/889 2.4%
    Diamond Princess–6/705 .9%
    Iran–34/388 8.8%
    Japan–5/234 2.1%
    Hong Kong–2/93 2.15%
    France–2/57 3.5%
    Taiwan–1/34 2.9%
    Philippines–1/3 33%
    Global–2923/84611 3.45%

    Notice the difference, South Korea’s rate is dramatically outside the rest of the global average, as is Iran. More than a few people die everyday, in the US we don’t even have a highly available test to see if people are infected. There isn’t currently a great statistical model to predict outside of the actual numbers reported, but actual numbers are a number.

    The infection rate is increasing as more testing happens, and the death toll is rising. Will it be 50M/1800M like the Spanish Flu, probably not, as we’ll isolate, and have a vaccine in a year. But the effect on the global economy of the isolation, hasn’t been small, and won’t decrease in the short term.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  101. Who needs a virus to make Americans ill– catch the Trump rally in South Carolina and you’ll literally vomit. Truly, truly sickos; Graham, Scott and all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. And keep in mind — the HIV infection rate in Swaziland is 27%!!! So we’re bound to lose another quarter of the population HERE to that too! SCIENCE 🤪🤪🤪🤪

    Maybe you heard about the HIV problem that happened a while ago in the US. Some say it killed 675,000 people in the US, and we spent 30 years developing a drug treatment. Do you not count those people as dead because… Do you not count the Swaziland dead people because they are more tan than you, and not living in Iowa? Is Iowa even a real place, most people say no.

    Did you know that Iowa, not Kentucky or West Virginia, has more marriages between cousins than anywhere outside of the Royal family? I’ve definitely heard that. It’s like 92.89%, the rest are siblings.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  103. “ Fearmongering. Have you never noticed how much of modern democratic politics is rooted in such mass manipulation techniques? Seriously? Does the expression “Never let a crisis go to waste” ring a bell?”

    Can you explain the difference between fearmongering and legitimate criticism? Let me give you an example to work with: back in 2014, Trump made a series of tweets about Obama’s handling of an Ebola outbreak. You can see some of them here: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-called-obama-a-psycho-in-2014-over-ebola-outbreak-2020-2

    Fearmongering or criticism?

    Davethulhu (8138da)

  104. https://www.foxnews.com/us/second-coronavirus-case-unknown-origin-confirmed-california-cdc

    Damned hoaxers…!!!

    And don’t EVEN consider Instapundit, that snake pit of @Nevertrump liars! So disgusting…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  105. Truly, truly sickos; Graham, Scott and all.

    Buyer’s remorse?

    Dave (b1bec7)

  106. Trump slams Dems, tells South Carolina rally US is ‘totally prepared’ for virus

    Oh.

    Well, alrighty then…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  107. @100:

    Notice the difference, South Korea’s rate is dramatically outside the rest of the global average.

    Yes, I see the difference. I also see that Korea is almost the only country (other than China, which lies), which has a large enough number of confirmed cases, based on a very well-established testing procedure and no attempts to hide the true numbers, to start to see a real trend with regard to mortality. And it has the lowest mortality rate of all the countries on your list. That matters, because using numbers carelessly, i.e., without context, is one of those situations in which “facts lie.”

    As I said, we just don’t know what the mortality rate will finally be, because the situation is ongoing, and we have no idea how many people really have been infected. It is almost certain, however, for the reasons I explain earlier, that the final mortality will be lower than the numbers we’re seeing now, based on limited numbers of identified cases.

    Remember, as long as we are still talking only about verified, diagnosed cases, the percentages will always skew toward high death rates, since the people most likely to get diagnosed are those with serious symptoms, such as old people who contract the flu while already in the hospital with respiratory ailments.

    As for the Korean model, it is an outlier in a very useful way, statistically, for this reason: Unlike the other cases (apart from the Diamond Princess, which also, interestingly, has lower mortality), Korean authorities, having isolated the source of most of our cases (a church in Daegu), have set about testing very widely among that population base. This means they are testing people who show no major symptoms, unlike the other countries with smaller outbreaks, where it is likely that only symptomatic patients are being tested.

    Thus, in Korea, there are more cases of the virus being found and diagnosed that are not showing signs of serious illness. This makes the Korean numbers slightly more representative of typical flu numbers, where of course the majority of those infected never get sick.

    So you see, the Korean case is useful, if we are trying to see how serious this virus is, precisely because its mortality rate seems lower — once we understand why it is lower.

    I am not belittling it, and it is offensive to suggest, as you have done twice now, that I am being callous about the people who have died of this virus, or any other flu. I am not belittling the real cases of serious illness or death. I am trying to look at the whole picture independently of the popular hype machine, as I think is advisable in all issues.

    As for the Korean economy, you don’t have to tell me about that. My own life, and that of my students and friends, is being affected by it as we speak. I am watching small businesses close, or lay off workers. I am hearing about factories in my own city that cannot operate due to a lack of parts from China.

    I am fully aware of the hardship this is causing, thank you. I am also aware that some of the damage is exacerbated by the media’s willingness to foster mass panic, and the opposition parties’ desire to score political points by blaming the current president (which in turn requires promoting a dire view of the “crisis”). I am warning American friends, and anyone who cares to listen, not to follow this same alarmist path and cause similarly unnecessary harm to your own country, beyond whatever understandable damage is done by the contingencies of the virus itself.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  108. “Oh, I read pretty carefully. What you just wrote makes no more sense than what you wrote previously.”

    It’ll be interesting to see what new hoax you’re promoting in two months. Let’s chat then.

    “Maybe you heard about the HIV problem that happened a while ago in the US. Some say it killed 675,000 people in the US, and we spent 30 years developing a drug treatment.”

    Yeah, I lived through it. It was in the U.S. Lots of people died. So? BUT — TODAY, SOMEWHERE ELSE, 27%!!!! So we MUST panic and blame Trump!!! However, I’ll give you props for bringing race into this — nice Dem touch!

    Jenny from Iowa (f5c7b4)

  109. Hold on, I just realized why I’m behind on the news on this pandemic. I’ve been in my bomb shelter since Trump started WORLD WAR III with Iran by killing what’shisname. THAT was not a hoax!!!!!

    Jenny from Iowa (f5c7b4)

  110. Yeah, I lived through it. It was in the U.S. Lots of people died. So? BUT — TODAY, SOMEWHERE ELSE, 27%!!!! So we MUST panic and blame Trump!!! However, I’ll give you props for bringing race into this — nice Dem touch!

    Well, as long as…I got nothin’. That is a great observation, I’m surprised the rest of missed the connection, or something, whatever the point was you were making.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  111. @103: Not interested in what-about-ism. And it’s misplaced here in the extreme, as I am not defending Trump as president, or as human, so what he said about Obama is of no consequence to my case. I am merely asking, or rather pleading with, people not to lose their heads, and destroy their economy, over this virus. It would also be nice if they could refrain from jumping on their tribal bandwagon — pro-Trump, NeverTrump, socialist, whatever — and playing politics over absolutely non-political matters.

    One difference between fearmongering and legitimate criticism is that the former has an agenda behind it that has more to do with the promotion of a political (or other) cause, separate from the issue ostensibly at hand, than with helping to solve real problems; and the fearmonger’s agenda is promoted by encouraging people to imagine the worst about a situation, far beyond the evidence, in ways that will precipitate quick, emotional, and often irresponsible responses, rather than sober and reasoned ones.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  112. It’ll be interesting to see what new hoax you’re promoting in two months.

    What hoax am I accused of promoting now…!?!?!

    Seems the hoaxing is all on the side of T-rump suckers and Duh Donald himself.

    Or do you actually believe the boob-bait that we’re “totally prepared”? For what, exactly?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  113. “I got nothin’.”

    Never did!

    Jenny from Iowa (f5c7b4)

  114. Next week’s New Yorker cover nails it.

    Dave (b1bec7)

  115. @101:

    “Who needs a virus to make Americans ill– catch the Trump rally in South Carolina and you’ll literally vomit. Truly, truly sickos; Graham, Scott and all.”

    Yes, and that’s even truer than you may have meant it. A country — the one on which the fate of civilization rests in the modern era — is in freefall, politically and morally. And people are paralyzed about what is essentially a bad flu virus? Talk about getting distracted!

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  116. The hoax that Trump is desperately trying to hide is that he, a perpetually bankrupt tinhorn, had anything to do with the state of the stock market. But he can’t. A sneeze knocked his house of cards down.

    nk (1d9030)

  117. Any thoughts on a usual leftist 3 judge panel on the 9th Circuit saying our policy of holding refugee requests in Mexico till their status can be verified is illegal?

    Ties in rather well with a virus rampaging the globe, doesn’t it?

    NJRob (4ba60c)

  118. Ties in rather well with a virus rampaging the globe, doesn’t it?

    No

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  119. And people are paralyzed about what is essentially a bad flu virus?

    I doubt that many people are “paralyzed”. We don’t know enough either way. Is it a “bad flu virus”? What was the Spanish flu if not a “bad flu virus”?

    One thing we DO know is that leaders around the world…including in Switzerland (hardly known for silly panic)…are taking extraordinary measures to protect their people.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  120. Ties in rather well with a virus rampaging the globe, doesn’t it?

    That’s all a hoax.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. Reading a lot lately, and when I turn on the TV it is NOT to watch the news. It’s been too ugly a spectacle for some time now (roughly since late 2012).

    As it stands, I’m in a city that is surrounded by pretty much 200 miles of desert in every direction. It won’t be the first place to go when the Coronavirus starts killing everyone. Then again The Stand‘s “Captain Trips” started pretty much about here, so what do I know?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. Somewhere, in an alternate universe, this is late in Mitt Romney’s second term. Patterico is happier there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  123. You’re drunk.

    Go home.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  124. KPRC 2 Houston
    @KPRC2
    BREAKING NEWS: 11 cases of coronavirus confirmed in San Antonio
    __ _

    Siobhan
    @sbrady1231
    .
    11 cases of coronavirus confirmed in San Antonio! Trump administration is lying to Americans.
    __ _

    Brandon Darby
    @brandondarby
    ·
    Respectfully, that’s an irresponsible headline. They are evacuees and what you just did here is bad as it implies it’s being community spread
    __ _

    Ron Short
    @shortiept
    ·
    These people have been in quarantine in San Antonio for almost two weeks. They just tested positive after being suspected, thus why they were quarantined. Everybody needs to take a breath and stop reacting and politicizing the headlines and read what is really going on.
    __ _

    Allen Ayres
    @AllenAyres
    ·
    They’re the passengers from the cruise ship now being housed/quarantined at Lackland AFB. It’s not news.

    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  125. @119:

    I doubt that many people are “paralyzed”. We don’t know enough either way. Is it a “bad flu virus”? What was the Spanish flu if not a “bad flu virus”?

    I’m living in the new epicenter of this thing, South Korea. Yes, it is a bad flu virus. And yes, people are becoming paralyzed in the sense of obsessing about this virus “pandemic” (a word that sounds scary to us laymen, but really just means a wide-ranging epidemic, which in turn is just a viral outbreak of any kind), in ways that are beginning to have severe effects on national economies, and national psyches as well, as I can attest from the Korean example.

    Precautions, good. Panic, bad. Cautious realism, helpful. Precipitate demands for governments to “take extraordinary measures,” not helpful.

    Furthermore — and believe me, I am not talking about or praising Trump here — people used to think a large part of statesmanship, perhaps especially in an ostensibly free republic, was about projecting calm strength in the face of challenges, rather than trying to prove “empathy” or “deep concern” by openly succumbing to, and therefore heightening, public anxiety.

    People are much too sanguine about begging the government to empathize and take care of them. We could do with a few world leaders right now who could take the old-style statesmanlike approach: “It’s a bad flu virus, my friends. We’ll take precautions, but let’s take care of each other, keep our heads, and not get swept up in irrational fears or worry ourselves into financial instability.”

    You’re right, Ragspierre, we don’t know exactly what this will finally turn out to be. So far, a careful examination of the whole picture makes it look like what I’m calling it, a bad flu, and highly contagious, so we would all do best to be careful, but not at the expense of our backbone. I just wish so many people were not getting caught up in their worst instincts — tribal blaming, alarmism, dire predictions, political short-sightedness — over this illness. This isn’t a political issue, or at least certainly not yet — unless you are Chinese or Iranian.

    I am living in a city with about 20 known cases of this virus so far, including at least one who is known to have visited my university a week ago, while infected. I personally know people who are losing significant hours at their jobs, and some at risk of losing jobs outright, over the economic and social effects of this outbreak, and that’s after just two weeks.

    Believe me, I take it seriously, and I get it. I also get the danger of succumbing to fear and blame and hatred and “Do something!” when the circumstances simply do not warrant such extremes. In fact, NO circumstances warrant such extremes. Reason and moderation are the supposed to be the bulwark against such passionate reactions.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  126. If only we had Hillary in charge. Say the Never Trumpers.

    Not this NeverTrumper, and I think I’m in good company.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  127. Patterico is happier there.

    He’s not alone.

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. In two months, when the U.S. coronavirus hoax is over and nobody in this country has got it…

    Tilt. It makes one wonder if iowan2 and Jenny from Iowa are related.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  129. nk, DRJ –
    Thanks so much for the thoughts.

    mg (8cbc69)

  130. mg, I hope your granddaughter grows up a healthy, strong, beautiful young lady.

    Who marries a lawyer.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  131. So, we have Don Jr. on Fox News claiming (as usual, without a shred of evidence) that Democrats are hoping it spreads here and kills millions, just so that it will bring Trump down. Such an accusation is beyond disgusting. And we have Mulvaney saying that people shouldn’t be so concerned, since the death rate from coronavirus is far lower than SARS, which didn’t create this degree of panic. Then Mulvaney goes on to imply, likewise, that this “hysteria” is generated by Democrats. First of all, while the death rate from coronavirus is much lower than SARS, it is far more infectious, spreading much more rapidly than SARS, with the net result that it could prove more lethal in terms of numbers of deaths. Second, the claim that the “hysteria” is all generated by Democrats and enemies of Trump ignores the stringent measures taken by other countries to contain the spread. (Japan has canceled public schools for nearly a month, for crying out loud.) Were these measures taken in other countries based on “hysteria,” to bring down Trump? I’m afraid it’s people like Don Jr. and Mulvaney who are politicizing this situation, not the “enemies of Trump.”

    Roger (8a1561)

  132. Who marries a lawyer.

    Or becomes a lawyer. One of my classmates at law school was a healthy, strong, beautiful young lady with a port wine stain.

    nk (1d9030)

  133. Were these measures taken in other countries based on “hysteria,” to bring down Trump?

    “A conspiracy so immense… “

    Dave (1bb933)

  134. You’re drunk.

    That’s odd. Don’t you have to drink to get drunk?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  135. In Tom Clancy’s “Executive Orders”, President Ryan shuts down air traffic and closes all US state borders in order to firebreak a biological attack. And Jack Ryan is probably Trump’s idol.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  136. “A conspiracy so immense… “

    A lot of the McCarthy era claims about Soviet infiltration were correct. His problem was that so many “Americans” didn’t regard it as a threat. If the Blacklist had been about writers who had been Nazis in the 30s, it would still be in effect.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  137. Jack Ryan is probably Trump’s idol.

    I doubt Duh Donald knows what a Jack Ryan is. Probably would guess it’s some kind of little dog.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  138. This press conference is really quite a thing…spectacle is probably the right word. A collection of stupid so dense that one more syllable might initiate gravitational collapse forming a black hole centered at the White House, swallowing the planet and solar system in short order.

    To translate to Trumpster, Donald The Trump has saved all mankind from the coronavirus.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  139. Asked if he was considering closing the southern border due to coronavirus, Trump said “yes” and later said “very strongly.” Later, he seemed to indicate he was walking it back.

    “We are looking also at the southern border. In fact, some of the folks are here right now, Ken (Cuccinelli) is here some place, and yes, we are thinking about the southern border,” the President said. “We have received a lot of power over the southern border over the last couple of years from the courts but we are looking at that very strongly.”
    When confronted with the fact that Mexico has far fewer cases than the US, Trump seemed to contradict himself.

    “We’re not talking about it,” Trump said. “We have to think all borders, we have to think about, as it pertain to what we’re talking about here, this is not a border that seems to be much of a problem right now. We hope we won’t have to do that.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  140. “We have to think all borders, we have to think about, as it pertain to what we’re talking about here, this is not a border that seems to be much of a problem right now. We hope we won’t have to do that.”

    ‘Cause that would look kinda’ panic-ey…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. Thank you, Ragspierre.
    Good humor is the best.

    mg (8cbc69)

  142. To do its part in perpetrating the hoax, the American Physical Society just cancelled its March meeting in Denver.

    Dave (1bb933)

  143. I don;t think it id an impossibility that the virus could have a higher death rate in Wuhan than elsewhere, or a lower death rate far away. The death rate may be related to the number of cases. A person can get reinfected from his own coughs or from others. The virus appears to proceed slowly, and kill slowly, after many days, so it may create a lot of small infections. It probably is more survivable if a person is the only case or the first case.

    From the Diamond Princess there are now 6 deaths, out of 705 (or 0.85%) as of Friday. All passengers are off the Diamond Princess, but the several hundred member crew did not all get evacuated – they were waiting for charter flights.

    A lot of cases can be traced to the Lombardy region of Italy but I haven’t heard how it got there.

    The cases in Iran seem to disproportionately affect people high in the government – as there some secret or unpublicized Chinese delegation there recently. The Iranian government is claiming it spread from Qom, but that has to be secondary site (no international airport) Some important cleric may have gone there. I read also (no details) that the former Iranian Ambassador to the Vatican died, so maybe there’s another possibility.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  144. I see the demonstrations have stopped in Hong Kong. Just saying.

    mg (8cbc69)

  145. Also, PDJT is likely to conflate Jack Ryan with a certain SNL impersonator of himself, a cranky envirofreak wiseass who pilots a flying saucer with a walking carpet, and some dude from a an over streamed sitcom who upgraded in terms of real life spouse.

    urbanleftbehind (043a09)

  146. To be fair, John Krasinski might be positioning himself to be a latter day Eastwood or even Heston, Chris Pratt be damned.

    http://thefederalist.com/2020/02/24/john-krasinski-denies-claims-his-military-characters-promote-conservative-politics/

    urbanleftbehind (043a09)

  147. Trump said that he was “shocked” to learn that over 25,000 Americans can die from the flu in a given year. And, of course, the coverage of the coronavirus is a new hoax perpetrated by Democrats.

    Come on America. Send this man home.

    noel (4d3313)

  148. China is arresting or expelling anybody who talks or writes the wrong things about coronavirus – anyone who gives a overall evaluation of the prognosis for the epidemic that the government doesn’t like.

    Sammy Finkelman (7072ea)

  149. https://www.wired.com/story/did-a-woman-get-coronavirus-twice-scientists-are-skeptical

    They think more likely it never completely cleared up. It’s the same thing, really, though. But why would it flare up again? I think it flared up because she got reinfected. In fact I think a lot of times people are getting reinfected – from themselves or from others.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  150. There’s also the possibility of multiple strains, not separately identified in the DNA test.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  151. Pence was in Florida Friday and stopped off at Rush Limbaugh’s studio as well.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  152. Poor Rush. He has enough to cope with….

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  153. 147. noel (4d3313) — 3/1/2020 @ 6:07 am

    Trump said that he was “shocked” to learn that over 25,000 Americans can die from the flu in a given year.

    In the United States.

    It really isn’t publicized, and the deaths do not occur in clusters, and it seems like many are debilitated before. And I don’t knows if anybody knows if the number is right. That;s less than one in a thousand deaths. For years they were using the same number, 36,000, based on an estimate for 1999. The number goes up and down and recently may have been up considerably.

    Sammy Finkelman (9fe80b)

  154. 151. 153. Pence didn’t know why he was picked (there’s a story that said Trump said give it to Pence – he has nothing else to do) and thought it was because he was a Governor who had soe experience in dealing with an outbreak of an infectious disease, The first (of two) MERS cases in the United States was in Indiana. He also mentioned the AIDS outbreak in Indiana. Evidently, Trump had asked him some questions about what he did and was satisfied. That was probably to see he was not disqualified, not the reason to pick him in the first place. Trump apparently did not explain to Pence why he was given this job. But he said a lot of the management of this is on the state level and he was contacting state officials. (on the Florida trip, which was made mainly for a Republican fundraiser, he also briefed the Governor – besides of course visiting the studio in Palm Beach County where Rush Limbaugh most frequently broadcasts out of. Rush very rarely has guests and when he does he takes telephone calls.)

    On the aRush Limbaugh show, Mike Pence repeatedly talked about America first (evidently, because of possible criticism of the quarantine and the fact that Trump stopped early travelers coming from or who had been in China from coming to the United States unless they had spent 14 days outside of China. )

    He was so intent on this, that when Rush mentioned something about fighting or trying to stop the spread of corona virus throughout the world, the next time he spoke Pence said their “focus” was on the United States!!

    Sammy Finkelman (9fe80b)

  155. Mike Bloomberg now is at least producing topical commercials. The one last night (before the 9 pm sows started on CBS and on NBC) was about corona virus and how Trump was not speaking right about it. He came close to pretending to be the president for awhile.link

    Sammy Finkelman (9fe80b)

  156. OK, Jennie from Mos…I mean Iowa.

    In two months, when the U.S. coronavirus hoax is over and nobody in this country has got it (other than the handful of immigrants who have already been detained), will the fakestream media (1) admit it was a politically-motivated fraud to depress the stock market, or (2) give Trump credit for saving us from the pandemic?

    Well, 3 days later, how many immigrants with it, zero. How many dead citizens, 6 dead.

    How’s the hoax working out for you? I’ve noticed your handle has moved on, did you get a new directive from the SVD?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

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