Patterico's Pontifications

2/22/2020

Reports On Nevada Caucus: It’s Bernie

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:38 pm



[guest post by Dana]

This isn’t surprising:

Bernie Sanders scored a resounding victory in Nevada’s presidential caucuses on Saturday, cementing his status as the Democrats’ national front-runner amid escalating tensions over whether he’s too liberal to defeat President Donald Trump.

[…]

The win built on Sanders’ win earlier this month in the New Hampshire primary. He essentially tied for first place in the Iowa caucuses with Pete Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, who has sought to position himself as an ideological counter to Sanders’ unabashed progressive politics, but was fighting for a distant second place in Nevada.

nevada
(*Candidate totals are county convention delegates won, which are derived from caucus vote tallies and determine the number of pledged delegates each candidate receives.)

This seems about right:

Also, there’s some chatter about Bernie Sanders selecting Stacy Abrams to be his running mate if he takes the nomination. But there is also chatter about Elizabeth Warren. Somehow, though, it doesn’t seem likely that a female candidate who accused Sanders of saying that a woman couldn’t win a presidential election would want to play second-fiddle to him…

I’m wondering whether the remaining Democratic candidates are kicking themselves for having gone full-throttle after Michael Bloomberg at the last debate instead of pounding frontrunner Bernie Sanders? After all, Bloomberg wasn’t even on the Nevada ballot.

–Dana

141 Responses to “Reports On Nevada Caucus: It’s Bernie”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. Interesting times, eh? The question remains: will Bernie get the nomination, or will the DNC figure some new strategy to kneecap him?

    B.A. DuBois (80f588)

  3. Speaking strictly from an ol’poly sci POV, it is intriguing that the Democratic Party may likely nominate someone who, strictly speaking, is not a Democrat just as the GOP nominated someone who essentially, really was not a Republican.

    “Fascinating.” – Mr. Spock [Leonard Nimoy], almost and classic ‘Star Trek’ NBC TV 1966-1969

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  4. Wonder what the DNC rules are on delegate reallocation if a 78 year-old front runner drops dead of a heart attack on the campaign trail? Or once they get the party nom?

    Does Trump run against himself?!?!

    He might lose. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  5. What the hell. He’s not orange, he utters not a single profanity.

    Better than Trump, es verdad?

    Matador (0284e8)

  6. What pleases me is that Buttigieg’s people were not able to hack this one. Otherwise, bleech!

    nk (1d9030)

  7. 4. If a candidate bows out, his delegates are released if already picked. That’s what happened to RFK’s delegates in the 1968 convention. Now thee name may not actually get all chosen tll late June.

    If a candidate is out early enough after the convention, party rules may vary from time to time, but the national committee can pick a new candidate (who may need to be accepted by every state party to be on the ballot.)

    In 1972 when Thomas Eagleton left the ticket after the convention, the DNC picked Sargent Shriver (A JFK brother-in-law) as his replacement,

    It is possible that the vice presidential nominee of the Democratic Party may not be picked at the convention. If the presidential candidate is undecided six weeks before the convention, they’ll probably have to name the vice president later – the now customary vetting process takes that long. A prospective presidential nominee now puts about six people through all the rungs and his choice is limited to those six people – that’s why John McCain chose Sarah Palin when he decided that he couldn’t name Joe Lieberman – who would have had the unique experience of being named vice president on the ticket of two different parties within eight years. McCain had a small list he couldn’t expand without doing away with a lot of the vetting, which goes through financial and medical records ad whatever dirt can be dug up.

    If the candidate is gone too late to get off the ballot, his Electors can still be elected pledged to the wrong name. This happened with Taft’s vice president in 1912, who died on October 30. Taft had only 8 Electors, but they all voted for his substitute, Columbia University president Nicholas Murray Butler.

    If a candidate dies between the November election and the day the Electors vote, as happened with Horace Greeley in 1872, different electors might do different things, especially if things weren’t decided by anybody – Greeley was a fusion candidate to begin with.

    If a candidate dies after the electors have voted, the person elected as vice president becomes president, as per the 20th amendment.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  8. Newsflash: Nevada Democrats want Trump to win.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  9. First Draft, Plagiarist Joe, Vegas stump speech:

    Whoa, Man! Hello Nevada and to all my union buddies here in Vegas! So- wow–what are we, first? Second? Third? Here’s the deal, kids– your support will keep this ol’ one armed bandit on a roll.

    Now I’m East bound and down, loaded up and truckin'; I’m gonna do what they say can’t be done
    We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there; I’m east bound, so just watch this ol’ bandit run!

    Keep your foot hard on the pedal, kids; never mind them bad breaks; let it all hang out, cause we’ve got a run to make! My blacks are thirsty in Atlanta! And there’s beer in Texarkana!
    And we’ll bring it back no matter what it takes– all the way from South Carolina!

    So I’m East bound and down and loaded up for truckin'; We’re gonna do what they say can’t be done, right kids?! We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there! I’m east bound, so just watch this ol’ Bandit run!

    Old Bernie’s got them years on; and I’m hot on his trail! And he ain’t gonna rest ’cause I’m just a a few delegates off his tail; So kids, we gotta dodge him, we gotta duck him! I’ve gotta keep that Corn Pop poppin’— so ‘come on, just put that hammer and sickle down and give him hell!!

    I’m East bound and down, Utah! Loaded up and truckin'; We gonna do what they say can’t be done;
    I’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there, I’m east bound, so just watch this ol’ Bandit run!

    Thank you, Montana!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. Sigh.

    Nic (896fdf)

  11. Time for Amy and Tom and Joey Bee to drop out. Little Big Mike is gonna stay in to run capitalist billionaire interference against the socialist he’s already tried to label a commie.

    The wealth gap is fueling this passion. We’ve seen this greedy show before. When perceived excess overtakes the value of success by crushing the middle– watch out.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. I’m wondering whether the remaining Democratic candidates are kicking themselves for having gone full-throttle after Michael Bloomberg at the last debate instead of pounding frontrunner Bernie Sanders? After all, Bloomberg wasn’t even on the Nevada ballot.

    Little Big Mike’s campaign said tonight they ‘worry’ nobody can catch Bernie in the delegate count.

    Bloomberg has spent nearly half a billion dollars already. It has neither bought him nor won him any delegates. That judgment alone may speak volumes about his actual capacity to manage and govern the United States.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. This is what 40 years of indoctrination has brought us.

    NJRob (f16f1d)

  14. Still … where’s that guy who said his vote doesn’t count?

    Can’t buy me votes!
    I’ve got tons and tons of money!
    Money can’t buy me votes!

    nk (1d9030)

  15. Speaking strictly from an ol’poly sci POV, it is intriguing that the Democratic Party may likely nominate someone who, strictly speaking, is not a Democrat just as the GOP nominated someone who essentially, really was not a Republican.

    And a guy who has been both a Democrat and a Republican might run as a third-party candidate.

    I think Comrade Sanders has to pick a so-called “moderate” and go for a “unity ticket.” Two lefties, like a Stacey Abrams or an Elizabeth Warren, would probably rile up the Wall Street establishment and lead them to sit this one out. Not that Sanders would mind, but it would freak out any Democrat running for Congress or the Senate this year. I’m guessing he chooses a woman, so I would guess Amy Klobuchar or — Heaven help us — even a Kamala Harris might be the choice.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  16. Bloomberg has spent nearly half a billion dollars already. It has neither bought him nor won him any delegates. That judgment alone may speak volumes about his actual capacity to manage and govern the United States.

    But hang on: he didn’t really participate in either of the caucuses, and he wasn’t on the ballot in New Hampshire, right? So he can just brush it off by saying that he hasn’t yet entered a contest yet.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  17. 13.This is what 40 years of indoctrination has brought us.

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. @16. Which may compound his questionable judgment.

    Hating Trump isn’t a viable, alternative strategy to move America forward. People know that. The Bernie crowd has passion; so does Trump’s base. ‘Course the young never turn out like the old in November but still, passion can fuel a movement for sure. The kids are tired of getting squeezed and screwed over. When excess overtakes success, watch out.

    Passion got Obama elected. Wouldn’t underestimate Bernie’s followers. That’s the misjudgment that allowed Trump to win– that and an antiquated electoral college system.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. What is absolutely hilarious (or would be if there was hilarity in disaster) is that the 18-29 year-olds who voted 65% for Bernie are the ones who are going to be paying through the nose for all this largess. Maybe they are just young and stupid and think that it will all be “free”, or paid for by Bill Gates. But it won’t be. It will be a millstone around their necks for their entire lives.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. These kids aren’t all that spooked by cries of ‘comrade’ or ‘socialism’ from the oldsters. They’ve spent their youth hiding under school desks drilling for an American mass shooter, not hiding under their desks fearing a Russian thermonuclear strike. They have different, more pragmatic and modern priorities.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. After all, Bloomberg wasn’t even on the Nevada ballot.

    Yet he was on the Nevada debate stage. Money talks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. They have different, more pragmatic and modern priorities.

    Wait until they see a paycheck stub.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. Maybe they are just young and stupid and think that it will all be “free”, or paid for by Bill Gates.

    Maybe they’re not. They’ve grown up w/a perpertual war, $15 billion aircraft carriers, juggling three jobs, schol shootings and massive school debt while bank get bailed out w/free government $ and wonder why a Tylanol costs 10 cents in Canada and $22 in America. When excess overtake success, beware.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. I’m not sure that Sanders can beat Trump in California.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. Wait until they see a paycheck stub. Far too many of them are chasing two and three already just to make ends meet. Don’t underestimate hem. They’re tech savvy and practical.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. @24. I’m convinced he can. The demographics are in his favor. The cries of ‘comrade’ and ‘socialist’ from the Fox News droids gets dull PDQ– paticularly w/t young.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. These kids aren’t all that spooked by cries of ‘comrade’ or ‘socialism’ from the oldsters. They’ve spent their youth hiding under school desks drilling for an American mass shooter, not hiding under their desks fearing a Russian thermonuclear strike. They have different, more pragmatic and modern priorities.

    I see it exactly the other way around. Between school shootings, impending climate disaster, fraternities full of rapists, the KKK lurking around every corner, and threats that UN paratroops are going to land in your backyard and install low-flush toilets in your homes and remove FoxNews from your cable subscription, young people of today get spooked by just about everything. So Bernie Bros live in this state of panic that no one wants to hire a guy who took six years to finish his sociology degree at Barnard, and MAGA youth think that meth heads affiliated with Antifa will camp out in front of their apartments. We have a very high-strung generation in the Millennials (and yeah, I know, lots of them are super-normal guys and gals).

    JVW (54fd0b)

  28. I’m not sure that Sanders can beat Trump in California.

    Rich and comfortable Californians will indulge their wealthy woke selves by voting for Sanders. They will figure that his more outlandish plans can’t possibly get through Congress, and a whole lot of their moolah is already socked away in the Caymans and Switzerland anyway. Virtue is quite the precious commodity out here.

    Union folks will fall for his promises that Medicaid for All will be just as robust and efficient as their current platinum-plated health plans, and that once they lose their work-based coverage they will magically get raises in their wages. That will of course be yet more economic balderdash, but people here will fall for it.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  29. @7. I see it exactly the other way around.

    You’re not seeing it straight. These kids aren’t watching Fox or cable. No landlines; heck, no time. They catchBewsy or onlin sources, no Newsmax. They’re on their phones juggling jobs. It’s obvious they’re motivated– look at the numbers Bernie is pulling in I Nevada alone. They don’t drive your father’s Oldsmobile; and ain’t spooked by your Daddy’s socialism. The debt-riddled college crowds have seen Japan; been to Europe; experienced the smooth transit systems and seen the better quality of life and affordable healthcare. This is what happens when yo shear the sheep too closely and allow excess to supplant success. You saw Bloomberg’s desperate effort to defend it only to crash… and feel the Bern.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. ^27.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. “They catchBewsy or onlin sources” = They catch Newsy or online sources

    Typos.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. “ Somehow, though, it doesn’t seem likely that a female candidate who accused Sanders of saying that a woman couldn’t win a presidential election would want to play second-fiddle to him…”

    Warren would be chomping at the bit to be next-in-line to an excitable 78 year old with a heart condition.

    harkin (b64479)

  33. @32.Sanders/Warren 2020? A cranky old Jewish guy w/a sweatered old scold woman would be an asset to draw the female vote but two New Englanders on the same ticket might cancel that out. Sanders/Buttigieg 2020 has appeal to the progressive youth vote as well but a kvetching old New Englander with gay midwestern ‘grandson’ might not sell well in Mormon Utah. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. @28 I think you are right. CA would go to Sanders. The rich are complacent and not socially conservative and the not rich see advantages in Sanders and are tired of getting beat up by Trump.

    @29 The last group that had personal memories of what communism looks like are people who are my age, mid 40s, and the only reason I really remember is that it was part of my entire growing up life with the military and I was in Europe when the wall fell, for most people my age, it’s kinda fuzzy. Nobody younger than me remembers. They all see socialism in Canada and Scandinavia and none of that is frightening at all and, in fact, looks pretty good.

    @33 I think you’ve read it right. If Sanders gets it, Sanders/Buttigieg would be a solid ticket.

    Nic (896fdf)

  35. They’re on their phones juggling jobs. It’s obvious they’re motivated– look at the numbers Bernie is pulling in I Nevada alone.

    Let’s wait until we have more precincts reporting to judge these numbers. I read some media guy on Twitter point out that this year’s Nevada caucus is tracking to end up with a lower total turn-out than the 2008 contest even though there are now 175,000 more registered Democrats in Nevada than there were twelve years ago. This is similar to what we have seen in Iowa and New Hampshire; for all of that youthful energy stuff and even though Democrats are supposed to be highly motivated this year, it sure hasn’t demonstrated itself thus far.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  36. @33 I think you’ve read it right. If Sanders gets it, Sanders/Buttigieg would be a solid ticket.

    I think there absolutely has to be a woman on the ticket, though Sanders is ornery enough to dispel with that wisdom and go his own way. But do remember that Comrade Sanders and the Boy Mayor had a bit of a dust-up at the last debate. I think Amy Klobuchar would be the safest and smartest choice for him. Feminists who are still mad about Sanders and the Bernie Bros treatment of Hillary four years ago would be tempted to stand down and accept the possibility of a woman as VP.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  37. Many marginal democrats turned off by trump derangement syndrome media so lower turnout. Now it will be bernie sanders derangement syndrome by corporate media.

    asset (8bc276)

  38. Bernie wins nevada democrat caucus thanks to AOC’s spanish language outreach to latinx voters. AOC is laying the ground work for 2024 run if bernie doesn’t make it.

    asset (8bc276)

  39. @36 Klobuchar wouldn’t be a bad choice for him either, but, honestly, I feel like (and this is just a feeling, I have nothing concrete to back it up with) Bernie doesn’t have a ton of respect for women in leadership positions. I don’t think he’ll choose Klobuchar.

    @37 This is ancedote only, but my mother was speaking with my vaguely socially conservative, vaguely libertarian, midwestern, non-Democrat voting uncle on the phone earlier this week (she was at my house at the time, so I heard her half the convo) and he was telling her about how Obama had been right about healthcare, that healthcare as it had existed before had been a problem, but he hadn’t gone far enough. He was saying that there needed to be some kind of universal public healthcare. IDK how that figures into the general zeitgeist, but it was very very different that what he was saying 10 years or even 5 years ago.

    Nic (896fdf)

  40. “ A cranky old Jewish guy w/a sweatered old scold woman would be an asset to draw the female vote but two New Englanders on the same ticket might cancel that out.”

    My comment wasn’t declaring Warren as his predictable running mate. It was about the likelihood of a lady who’s proven to be one of the most shameless political opportunists ever cashing in a golden ticket if offered.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  41. MSNBC’s Chris Matthews speculates Democrats may be better off with Trump as president than Sanders

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/msnbcs-chris-matthews-speculates-democrats-may-be-better-off-with-trump-over-sanders

    2020 gonna be off the hook.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  42. the never trump posse is going to have to vote for burnee, thank you lord, thank you jesus. It just can’t get any better than this.

    mg (8cbc69)

  43. Trump is no republican and burnee is no democrat.
    lmmfao

    mg (8cbc69)

  44. bloomy has to be the all time biggest loser to leave las vegas

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. though, it doesn’t seem likely that a female candidate who accused Sanders of saying that a woman couldn’t win a presidential election would want to play second-fiddle to him…

    Wrong. Elizabeth Warren is only about power and personal advantage.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  46. @BorisB, B.S! You just made that up.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  47. I’m not sure that Sanders can beat Trump in California.

    That’s quite the prediction. I’d like you to be right, but really doubt it.

    Have you ever talked to those people?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  48. bloomy has to be the all time biggest loser to leave las vegas

    DNC establishment hardest hit.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  49. On a serious vein:

    This is what 40 years of indoctrination has brought us.

    Yes. It’s scary as Hell. That’s why Trump must win in ’20 and you can put someone else on the ballot in four years. Trump didn’t destroy the Republic in four years and he won’t do it during his lame duck term, either.

    Please come to your senses, people, and rally to stop the bona fide communist who ‘honeymooned’ in the Soviet Union and whose campaign volunteers and staff want to throw you and your loved ones in re-education gulags, as revealed by Project Veritas. When they’re not killing you, that is.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  50. Re: 48. I clearly got that backwards. Well, re-interpret it to mean that Trump even being close to Sanders in CA is “quite the prediction.”

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  51. I’ve read that breathing into a paper bag can relieve hysterical hyperventilation.

    Before you fall on the floor, you might want to give that a try.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  52. asset (8bc276) — 2/22/2020 @ 11:31 pm

    Stop it with the “latinx!” It is an abominable word, an outrage!

    felipe (023cc9)

  53. I tell you, seriously, anyone who adopts and uses “latinx” is only demonstrating tone deafness. Knock. it. off.

    felipe (023cc9)

  54. #13; Matthews compared Sanders’ win with the Nazis overrunning the Maginot line. Reality is they went around it. When you’ve been selling socialism for 40+ years, at some point your customer base will want socialism. If you want socialism, now, you got it.

    Bugg (ebf485)

  55. Just in: Bernie Sanders wants Pete Buttigieg as his running mate and their campaign slogan will be “COMMIE – FАGGОТ 2020″.

    It’s too bad Booker isn’t a frontrunner, then your slogan would’ve been “NIGGER – FAGGOT 2020″.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  56. To think that the general could come down to a cultural non-Christian versus a secular (and probably atheist) Jew.
    I won’t make a prediction, but I think it’s premature to say this primary season is over. Bernie only has 31 delegates and he needs another 1,960 to win outright.
    Starting with SC, the road for him is going to be tougher because he’s going to be facing a whopping amount more scrutiny, more than has been on Bloomberg, IMO.
    Jonah concludes that Bernie sees only what he wants to see (sounds kinda familiar):

    First, while it’s true that Sanders does not advocate communism, it’s also true that when communism was still a live proposition in the Soviet Union, Sanders lavished praise on it. It’s also true that he remains bizarrely fond of other non-democratic socialist regimes, including Cuba’s. So while he may not be proposing communism for the U.S. per se, the fact that Sanders isn’t horrified by communist countries should tell you something about how far he might like to take socialism here.
    Sanders supported a Marxist-Leninist party that backed the Iranian Revolution and the hostage-taking of Americans. In 1985, he supported the effort by Daniel Ortega, the Soviet-backed Sandinista leader of Nicaragua, to suppress opposition newspapers. Until recently, Sanders was supportive of the dictatorship in Venezuela.
    […]
    It’s true that the Nordic countries used to be closer to what Sanders has in mind. But that was decades ago—back when Bernie was heaping praise on communist countries. Those governments recognized that such policies were bad for the economy as a whole, and for the people too. Sure, some European countries have more generous welfare states and more progressive taxation than we do. Most also have much worse unemployment and economic growth. But all of that is grist for a different argument than the one Sanders offers. He has an impressive record of seeing only what he wants to see rather than what is—at home and abroad.
    And it doesn’t seem like a cheap shot to me to point out that Sanders got the reality of communism wrong in the past and the rest of the world wrong in the present.

    Link.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)


  57. Lindy Li
    @lindyli

    #BernieSanders lavishes praise on Communist Russia, preferring the Soviet Union to the American way of life in 1988

    https://twitter.com/lindyli/status/1228717543105454089?s=20
    __ _

    stuart stevens
    @stuartpstevens
    ·
    In 1988, I travelled from Beijing to Moscow, Moscow to Warsaw. No tour, no minders. Everywhere I met people desperate to get out; was handed letters to relatives in West they couldn’t get past censors. At Moscow hospital, watched a rat being fed by patients. He was a ward pet.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  58. Here’s a theory. Lizzie knows she doesn’t have a chance, and she’s the candidate who is ideologically closest to Bernie–so either by a wink of the eye or by tacit or actual agreement–she has become Bernie’s attack dog. Bernie stays above it while Lizzie and the Bernie Bros go low against Bloomberg. Nobody really likes her anyway.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  59. “Nobody younger than me remembers. They all see socialism in Canada and Scandinavia and none of that is frightening at all and, in fact, looks pretty good.”
    Nic (896fdf) — 2/22/2020 @ 10:55 pm

    Much like Vermont, neither Canada nor Scandinavia has a common border with the developing world. Of course it looks pretty good. They each have big beautiful walls called other countries or states or bodies of water.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  60. They all see socialism in Canada and Scandinavia and none of that is frightening at all and, in fact, looks pretty good.

    Neither place has socialism, and both places have dialed back what little they had. Bernie’s program is WAY to the left of Canada.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. Sanders-Buttigieg is Politburo Burns-Smithers

    urbanleftbehind (eda715)

  62. Trump is no republican and burnee is no democrat.

    You could put it that way, or you could say that neither party is what it was. The “Sixth Party System”, which began with Reagan’s election and featured strong social differences between the two parties and broad agreement on things like trade and immigration, ended with the election of Donald Trump.

    We are now in a new era where neither party has a consensus platform. This will sort itself out in the next two elections. Bernie is making the case to transform the Democrats into a Statist left-authoritarian party. I think it will fail, and the Democrats will fight a civil war following his loss (and the resulting down-ballot catastrophe). The GOP will come out of its chrysalis following Trump. I expect some reconciliation once The Donald is no longer the issue.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. I said that “I was not sure” that Sanders would win CA. Doesn’t mean he won’t, or that I don’t expect him to. If CA does go for Trump, it would be part of an historic landslide. CA would go for a less polarizing Republican against Sanders, but that’s not the choice they’re given. I expect 3rd parties to do well in 2020.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. BTW, every time I see Sanders in debate he looks like he’s about 2 PSI away from a brain fart.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. If CA does go for Trump

    Dude.

    Dave (1bb933)

  66. Sanders cabinet:

    Secretary of State: Dennis Kucinich
    Secretary of Interior: AOC
    Secretary of Treasury: Maxine Waters
    Secretary of Defense: Bill Deblasio
    Attorney General: Gloria Allred
    Secretary of Transportation: Jerry Brown and his train
    Secretary of Education: Lenora Fulani
    EPA Director: Jill Stein
    Director of National Intelligence: Edward Snowden

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. Dave,

    Sanders is a pretty awful candidate if you aren’t hard left. Tell people they’ll have to give up their company medical for a state-run system and they may not like it. Nobody is paying attention to him now, but when they are (in September or October) the WTF? quotient is going to be pretty high. And the ballot is secret.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Deep down inside Chris Matthews wants Bernie. But as a “moderate” “hard ball” playing standard bearer, he just can’t come out and say so. So early in the process, while still having a little influence to keep the Overton window from moving too quickly, he suggests he favors Trump over Bernie. Once Bernie is the definite nominee, once they spin the propaganda that Scandinavian socialism, the BS that that is, is what Bernie is really about, Matthews will fall back in line and endorse him. Leopards don’t change their spots.

    PTw (4d78f4)

  69. 23. DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/22/2020 @ 8:39 pm

    wonder why a Tylanol costs 10 cents in Canada and $22 in America.

    It doesn’t cost $22 a pill in a drug store. It costs $22 in a hospital. Or something like that can happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  70. The Democrats are such clowns. Here it is almost 10 AM PST, and they still only have 60% of the vote counted. Incredible. Ever hear of computers?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  71. Looks like Biden can’t break 25% – He needs to win SC big or he’s a goner. Looking to the future, its all going to be over rather quickly. Super Tuesday is March 3rd. Fourteen states vote, including Texas and California.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  72. Everyone is screeching about how “radical” Bernie is. I got news for you. They’re ALL radicals. The only difference is Bernie is Honest.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  73. 55. It’s true that the Nordic countries used to be closer to what Sanders has in mind.

    Denmark came in for some praise during the debate. From Pete Buttigieg:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/full-transcript-ninth-democratic-debate-las-vegas-n1139546

    JACKSON: Mayor Buttigieg, Senator Sanders has a proposal that will require all large companies to turn over up to 20 percent of their ownership to employees over time. Is that a good idea? [Hallie Jackson found the proposal Bernie Sanders had that’s closest to traditional socialism. She was inviting attacks on Bernie Sanders. Note, Senator Russell Long (D-La) son of Huey Long, was a proponent of ESOPs and got some tax breaks for that enacted into law.]

    BUTTIGIEG: I think that employee ownership of companies is a great idea. I’m not sure it makes sense to command those companies to do it. If we really want to deliver less inequality in this country, then we’ve got to start with the tax code and we’ve got to start with investments in how people are able to live the American dream, which is in serious, serious decline.

    As a matter of fact, last time I checked, the list of countries to live out the American dream, in other words, to be born at the bottom and come out at the top, we’re not even in the top ten. Number one place to live out the American dream right now is Denmark….

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  74. Later:

    SANDERS: Can I — to me, right?

    JACKSON: It is your policy.

    SANDERS: Thank you, it is my policy, and I’m very proud of that policy.
    All right? What we need to do to deal with this grotesque level of
    income and wealth inequality is make sure that those people who are
    working — you know what, Mr. Bloomberg, it wasn’t you who made all that
    money. Maybe your workers played some role in that, as well.

    (APPLAUSE)

    And it is important that those workers are able to share the benefits,
    also. When we have so many people who go to work every day and they feel
    not good about their jobs, they feel like cogs in a machine. I want
    workers to be able to sit on corporate boards, as well, so they can have
    some say over what happens to their lives.

    JACKSON: Mayor Bloomberg, you own a large company. Would you support
    what Senator Sanders is proposing?

    BLOOMBERG: Absolutely not. I can’t think of a ways that would make it
    easier for Donald Trump to get re-elected than listening to this
    conversation.

    (APPLAUSE)

    It’s ridiculous. We’re not going to throw out capitalism. We tried.
    Other countries tried that. It was called communism, and it just didn’t
    work.

    (AUDIENCE BOOS)

    Warren proposes a wealth tax.

    Later:

    HOLT: Senator Sanders, my next question is for you. Senator Sanders, our latest NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll released yesterday, two-thirds of all voters said they were uncomfortable with a socialist candidate for president. What do you say to those voters, sir?

    SANDERS: What was the result of that poll? Who was winning?

    HOLT: The question — the question is to you.

    SANDERS: The question was that I was winning, and I think by a fairly comfortable margin. Might mention that.

    But here is the point. Let’s talk about democratic socialism. Not communism, Mr. Bloomberg. That’s a cheap shot. Let’s talk about — let’s talk about what goes on in countries like Denmark, where Pete correctly pointed out they have a much higher quality of life in many respects than we do. What are we talking about?

    We are living in many ways in a socialist society right now. The problem is, as Dr. Martin Luther King reminded us, we have socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

    (APPLAUSE)

    BLOOMBERG: Wait a second.

    SANDERS: When Donald — let me finish. When Donald Trump gets $800 million in tax breaks and subsidies to build luxury condominiums, that’s socialism for the rich.

    BLOOMBERG: Wait a second.

    SANDERS: When Walmart — we have to subsidize Walmart’s workers who are on Medicaid and food stamps because the wealthiest family in America pays starvation wages, that’s socialism for the rich.

    (APPLAUSE)

    I believe in democratic socialism for working people, not billionaires, health care for all, educational opportunities for all.

    HOLT: All right, Senator, Senator, thank you.

    SANDERS: Creating a government that works for all, not just for Mr. Bloomberg.

    HOLT: The question was about socialism.

    BLOOMBERG: What a wonderful country we have. The best known socialist in the country happens to be a millionaire with three houses. What did I miss here?

    SANDERS: Well, you’ll miss that I work in Washington, house one.

    BLOOMBERG: That’s the first problem.

    SANDERS: Live in Burlington, house two.

    BLOOMBERG: That’s good.

    SANDERS: And like thousands of other Vermonters, I do have a summer camp. Forgive me for that. Where is your home? Which tax haven do you have your home?

    BLOOMBERG: New York City, thank you very much, and I pay all my taxes. And I’m happy to do it because I get something for it. And let me say, I thought the senator next to me was half right.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  75. Democrats don’t scare me. I’ve lived in Chicago for over half a century, in the Illinois Fifth Congressional District, originally Stephen Douglas’s, recently Rod Blagojevich’s and Rahm Emmanuel’s, who went on to become, respectively, our governor and mayor. Our governor right now is an even richer jerkoff than Trump, and our mayor even more repulsive (a thing difficult to achieve).

    nk (1d9030)

  76. “Mini Mike” isn’t done yet. He’s got until Super Tuesday to prove once-and-for-all that his money and connections mean something. I think it would be a mistake to count him out, given how much he has (and doesn’t have) in common with The Donald.

    Gryph (08c844)

  77. Why the Nevada results were so lopsided:

    1) This was a caucus and what is reported is percentage of delegates won after a second round.

    2) Many people who took part were union workers, and many caucuses took place in casinos so employees could participate. Most unions supported Bernie Sanders. The Culinary Workers union, in the end endorsed nobody maybe because they could see where their workers were going. The union leadership wants the status quo not only because they negotiated it but because they run health care facilities but this is not such an important point ti its membership.

    3) About one quarter of the caucus participants were Hispanic and Sanders did very strong among Hispanics, because of immigration. He should do similarly well in California but probably not quite as good in Texas. This is probably mostly a West Coast phenomenom.

    4) The non-Sanders vote was split among different candidates. In each caucus site probably only one or at most two others cold get delegates, but it was different in every different caucus site.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  78. Bloomberg may throw the race into a convention fight, but he won’t be the nominee. Why is everyone forgetting that Bloomberg was a REPUBLICAN? He supported George Bush in 2004 at the Republcian Convention. In June 2012 he said this:

    The mayor of New York opined that of the two men, Romney would be better at running the country. But he added that he could not endorse the Republican candidate because of his views on social issues such as abortion and gun control, and thus would remain neutral.

    He waited all the way till November 1, 2012 to endorse Obama.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  79. There’s a chart of per capita health care spending (all told, private and government) on page 81 of the current{Issue dated March 2/March 9, 2020) TIME magazine as part of a 2-page article.

    https://time.com/5785945/health-care-problems-america (it’s got a different title in the magazine)

    It shows spending in 2017 dollars (i.e. attempted adjustment for inflation) based on data from Max Roser at the University of Oxford, the World Bank and the OECD.

    Yes, costs in the U.K., Australia, France and Canada are less than half of those in the United States, and Switzerland is a little bit over 2/3. (around 70%) But costs there ave also climbed since 1970, although not nearly as much as those in the United States.

    Changing over to their systems won’t automatically reduce costs, and as I said, while Sanders uses that as a debating point, he doesn’t actually claim that Medicare for All would cut total costs npw paid by all sources in half.

    Health care spending in the U.K. now is about what it was in the United States in 1985 and in Switzerland what it was in the year 2000.

    Nothing Bernie Sanders proposes would take us back into the Twentieth Century.

    The article says American doctors get paid twice as much as those in other countries, but that doesn’t affect total health care spending too much because there are fewer doctors because physician led groups have held down the number of places in medical schools and make it difficult for well qualified foreign doctors to practice.

    But hospitals charge a lot due to limited competition. Owners and executives of pharmaceutical companies and medical device manufacturers make a lot of money and there are insurers and people working on coding and billing.

    They didn’t mention nurses.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  80. 77. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/23/2020 @ 10:37 am

    Why is everyone forgetting that Bloomberg was a REPUBLICAN? He supported George Bush in 2004 at the Republcian Convention.

    Bernie sanders mentioned that, but Michael Bloomberg never got around to saying in response, although I think he probably had a rehearsed answer:

    SANDERS: Can I add a word to this? You know, we talk about electability, and everybody up here wants to beat Trump, and we talk about stop and frisk, and we talked about the workplace that Mayor Bloomberg has established and the problems there.

    But maybe we should also ask how Mayor Bloomberg in 2004 supported George W. Bush for president, put money into Republican candidates for the United States Senate when some of us — Joe and I and others — were fighting for Democrats to control the United States Senate.

    BIDEN: And didn’t support Barack….

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  81. Syeyer is polling pretty high in south Carolina, but only in South Carolina.

    One reason maybe some people (including the Culinary workers Union) might not have endorsed Biden was that it was, in the words of an NBC reporter, like going aboard the Titanic after the iceberg had hit.

    (I’ll put aside for the present my contention that there was no iceberg – the ship tore a hole from swift turning to avoid a cloud mistaken for an iceberg – and the owners knew because the architect who went down with the ship told the boss, who survived. ) Its sister ship the Britannic, sunk in 1916 (attributed to a German mine or torpedo, and the Majestic nearly did in the 1920s and sinking could only have been avoided all the yars white star lines ran those ships if the captains knew of the vulnerability.)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  82. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-6824.html

    Average:

    Biden: 24.5

    Sanders: 21.5

    Steyer: 16.5

    Buttigieg: 10.8

    Warren: 9.5

    Klobuchar: 6.5

    Gabbard: 1.8

    Biden +3.0 Much less than in January, before impeachment and before Iowa. Bloomberg was probably not polled. (missing from total: 8.9%)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  83. Super Tuesday polls:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/SuperTuesday.html

    California:

    Sanders: 26.3

    Biden: 14.8

    Bloomberg: 14.5

    Warren: 12.0

    Buttigieg: 11.3

    Klobuchar: 5.5

    Steyer: 3.5

    Gabbard: 2.3

    (missing: 10%)

    Sanders +11.5. Both Biden and Bloomberg shuld make the 15% cut, although maybe on;y one of them in places.

    Texas:

    Sanders: 23.5

    Biden 21.0

    Warren: 14.5

    Bloomberg: 14.0

    Buttigieg: 7.0

    Kobuchar: 6.0

    Gabbard: 3.0

    11% missing. Sanders +2.5

    Sanders hovers most place around or slightly above 25%, Biden gets as high as the low 20s, loomberg sis=ts at around 15% Warren a little less, Buttigieg less, Klobuchar around 5% or 6%.

    Only Sanders and loomberg can run large numbers of ads,

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  84. Steyer did somewhat well in Nevada…if he leapfrogs Biden in So. Carolina…it begs the question is Steyer a good 3rd way between Blooms and Sanders?

    urbanleftbehind (eda715)

  85. Oh, please, this is far from over. Just because Sanders overwhelmingly won a single caucus does not in any way guarantee him the nomination. The Democrats are most likely headed toward a brokered convention, in which case the super-delegates will choose the nominee. And they didn’t choose Sanders the last time around, preferring instead to go all in for Clinton. While she did win the popular vote, she ran a bad campaign, ignored a few key states, because she thought she had them in the bag, and lost the electoral college.

    The Democrats to not want to repeat that mistake. Already James Carville is warning the DNC about nominating Sanders, because he knows Sanders will get clobbered in the general. I doubt the super-delegates will give the nod to Warren, because she is no Clinton. Bloomberg and Steyer are burned toast. Buttigieg and Klobuchar appear to be viable candidates, but neither are really electable.

    What a mess this is, American politics in the two-party system. The Republicans are going to nominate Trump, won’t even allow a primary challenger. The Democrats are in total disarray, and there’s not telling who will come out of the convention.

    Camille Paglia presciently wrote in early 2016, if Trump wins the nomination and the election, it will destroy the political structure of both the Republican and Democratic parties. And she was right, because that’s what happened.

    It doesn’t matter to me who the two parties nominate, as I won’t be voting for either. I don’t do binary. I’ll be voting Libertarian this year.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  86. Steyer doesn’t have any campaign in many places. He’s not going to benefit that much from free media. Nobody ever does. He’ll just run out of steam after South Carolina. He;’s looking to come in third, barely going over the threshhold for delegates. Now if Biden really collapses, he could come in second.

    Now Biden has been accused of making up a story about getting arrested in South Africa in 1977. yes, he;s still at inventing (somewhat heroic) stories about himself. The New Yor Times ran a story yesterday where they tried to be careful about that:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/us/politics/biden-south-africa-arrest-mandela.html

    This is a new story: Biden didn’t tell it before this campaign and he had several good opportunities to do so, particularly in a 2007 book in which he gave some space to his trip to South Africa. South African arrest records are hard to check, and it also could have been voided, so that avenue of fact checking is at a dead end for the moment. But it’s not in any newspaper accounts the New York Times can find.

    Andrew Young, who was on that trip, doesn’t remember any such arrest and he said he wouldn’t forget it. Members of Congress have been arrested in Washington, D.C., but he doesn’t recall it ever happening on a trip abroad. He doesn’t have anything against Biden although he is supporting Bloomberg this year.

    “This day, 30 years ago, Nelson Mandela walked out of prison and entered into discussions about apartheid,” Mr. Biden said at a campaign event in South Carolina last week. “I had the great honor of meeting him. I had the great honor of being arrested with our U.N. ambassador on the streets of Soweto trying to get to see him on Robbens Island.”

    …But Mr. Young said that he had never been arrested in South Africa and expressed skepticism that members of Congress would have faced arrest there.

    “No, I was never arrested and I don’t think he was, either,” Mr. Young, now 87, said in a telephone interview.

    Mr. Young added: “Now, people were being arrested in Washington. I don’t think there was ever a situation where congressmen were arrested in South Africa.” He emphasized his great respect for Mr. Biden, though he said he was currently supporting former Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York for the presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  87. Steyer gets, (he’s been accused of buying them by giving people paid positions in his campaign) endorsements from local politicians. That isn’t going on everywhere, nor is he running commercials everywhere so that politicians and others can feel he is their ticket to the national convention.

    What he’s doing is limited mostly to South Carolina.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  88. All we need now is for Vladimir Putin to add some details to Biden’s story and give them indirectly to Giuliani. Just kidding.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  89. 44.bloomy has to be the all time biggest loser to leave las vegas

    The dead shipped out of Vegas slaughtered in the 2017 mass shooting lost a lot more than Bloomberg.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. Trump is W.C. Fields dishonest.
    Bloomberg is Bibi Netanyahu dishonest.

    It’s like pornography; you know it when you see it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. Here’s a theory. Lizzie knows she doesn’t have a chance, and she’s the candidate who is ideologically closest to Bernie–so either by a wink of the eye or by tacit or actual agreement–she has become Bernie’s attack dog. Bernie stays above it while Lizzie and the Bernie Bros go low against Bloomberg. Nobody really likes her anyway.

    That’s an interesting theory and I can see it being true, but I can’t understand what’s in it for Fauxcahontas. For lots of reasons, mostly regional and ideological, I don’t see her being a serious VP candidate for him. I’ve heard it suggested that she wants to be Treasury Secretary, but she seems woefully under-qualified for that role and I would think that Wall Street and even Silicon Valley would freak out at the prospect. What other cabinet position would satisfy her massive ego?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  92. Joe Biden’s marriage proposal t his second wife, Jill, came at the end of that trip – which h said he made in part to give her time to think it over – and Biden weaves it into his story so it sounds like he is mentioning almost accidentally.

    According to Biden, Nelson Mandela knew of his arrest and..

    “After he got free and became president, he came to Washington and came to my office,” Mr. Biden said of Mr. Mandela at a black history awards brunch in Las Vegas. “He threw his arms around me and said, ‘I want to say thank you.’ I said, ‘What are you thanking me for, Mr. President?’ He said, ‘You tried to see me. You got arrested trying to see me.’”

    In 2013 Biden tols of meeting Mandela but did not mention any arrest when trying to see him.

    In a December 2013 clip from CBS News, Mr. Biden, expressing admiration for Mr. Mandela, mentioned a congressional delegation trip he took to South Africa. He also described being thanked, years later, by the iconic civil rights leader, but did not mention his own arrest. Instead, he said Mr. Mandela expressed gratitude for his support of anti-apartheid sanctions.

    In a 2013 statement marking the death of Mr. Mandela, Mr. Biden, then vice president, recalled how he had traveled to Soweto with Mr. Young, but he did not mention an arrest.

    “I saw his world the way it used to be when I visited South Africa as a 34-year-old senator,” the statement said. “When I exited the plane I was directed to one side of the tarmac, while the African-American congressmen traveling with me were sent to the other side. I refused to break off, and the officials finally relented. When I tried to enter Soweto township with Congressmen Andrew Young of Atlanta and Charles Diggs of Detroit, I remember their tears of anger and sadness.”

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  93. Now it’s logical that Joe Biden invented that story of the cancelled press conference or the flabbergasted US. Ambassador in Kiev it stands to reason he might have been doing this many times. It doesn’t have that as a precedent – this is still being taken at face value.

    But they do allude to another possible fictional tale near the end, but ti si not nearly as good. It coud just be Joe Biden getting confused, or getting it wrong, about somebody else’s story:

    Last year, Mr. Biden faced scrutiny after The Washington Post reported that he had misstated details in a story about the war in Afghanistan that he told on the campaign trail.

    It’s not really a story about the war in Afghanistan. It’s a story about a soldier who got a medal but said he didn’t deserve it,.

    The New York Times says no more in the story yesterday although it has links online.

    But here’s a previous story:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/us/politics/joe-biden-gaffes-military-history.html

    oseph R. Biden Jr., whose habit of verbal missteps on the 2020 campaign trail has concerned some Democrats, is again facing scrutiny after a new report that says he misstated multiple details in a
    war story he told last week.

    In two interviews released on Thursday, Mr. Biden, the former vice president, was defiant, insisting that the contours of the tale were accurate. His remarks came in response to a Washington Post article that outlined how in relaying an anecdote about a war hero, Mr. Biden appeared to combine details from several different events into one inaccurate composite story…

    It is the case, the report said, that Mr. Biden pinned a medal on a military service member who did not think he deserved it — the “essence of the story,” he told The Post and Courier during a campaign swing through South Carolina, adding that he had not read the article. But in the story of military heroism he told, Mr. Biden got many of the associated details wrong, the report said, such as the year, the military branch of the service member involved and the actions taken by the medal recipient, appearing to conflate different acts of bravery.

    The New York Times does not get too specific what was wrong, but evidently, he applied the not deserve the medal that one soldier said to some fictional acts pulled together from several real incidents.

    This is not about himself, and could be attributed to a bad memory.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  94. @34. They all see socialism in Canada and Scandinavia and none of that is frightening at all and, in fact, looks pretty good.

    And rightly so. My family’s personal experience in the UK, particularly w/t NHS, was quite good and comprehensive. Much better than anything we’ve experienced since returning to America. No complaints. Harley Street doctors; competent care, extremely affordable meds, easy access w/minimal to no paperwork or ever changing plans to fret over [all we had to do was show a card and got access to care] and when we tried to pay they would not accept it. A good friend needed emergency medical across the channel in France and said the care and cost was much better than anything she ever experienced stateside. American politicians are tilting at windmills and shadow boxing, bought an paid for by the insurance and big pharma lobbies. The kids know better; they prefer access to affordable healthcare over $15 billion aircraft carriers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. Hey Sammy…google “Mark Sanford Tom Steyer” and go to Image results…that might explain a lot

    urbanleftbehind (eda715)

  96. Sanders ralley cry at texas event “We won nevada all power to the soviets!”

    asset (8c0a62)

  97. “ Trump is W.C. Fields dishonest”

    If only.

    harkin (b64479)

  98. POLITICO
    @politico
    24 hours after the Nevada caucuses began, 60% of the precincts are in. It’s still not entirely clear who finished 2-4 right now, says reporter
    @ZachMontellaro

    _ _

    harkin (b64479)

  99. The kids know better; they prefer access to affordable healthcare over $15 billion aircraft carriers.

    Perhaps they need some understanding of the Constitution, which is silent on health care but explicit regarding national defense.

    And the folks in GB and France benefit from US aircraft carriers, as does the entire free world.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. NBC News
    @NBCNews
    If Sen. Sanders wins the nomination, some Democrats worry President Trump will hammer him on his long-buried words in defense of governments in Nicaragua, Cuba and the USSR.
    __ _

    It’s still 2016 apparently
    @jtLOL
    ·
    Replying to
    @NBCNews
    If they’re “long-buried,” who buried them? And how do you know about them?
    __ _

    Natalie Johnson
    @nataliejohnsonn
    ·
    NBC News: The issue is not Bernie’s support for dictatorships. The issue is Republicans pointing out Bernie’s support for dictatorships.
    __ _

    StevenJ
    @SJohnson8123
    ·
    The question isn’t whether Trump will hammer him on those things, but why Biden, Pete and Amy aren’t pounding him with them now.

    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  101. @98. The Cold War ended long ago and the post-WW2 world you cling to died o 9/11. You are truly out of touch w/t rapildly changing real world. EZ to sink a $15 billion aircraft carrir w/a $2 million Exocet; or better still, gt it steamin in circles w/a virus on a $5 thumbdrive.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. The kids know better; they prefer access to affordable healthcare over $15 billion aircraft carriers.“

    If they really knew better, they’d know it was way overpriced healthcare paid for by people who are also paying for their own overpriced healthcare.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  103. Watching carrier maneuvers from the North Kohala Range overlooking Kawaihae Harbor was a complete mind blower. Every size ship imaginable. And the jets, holy schiff what a sight. Telescopes and field glasses help the viewing pleasure.

    mg (8cbc69)

  104. “After he got free and became president, he came to Washington and came to my office,” Mr. Biden said of Mr. Mandela at a black history awards brunch in Las Vegas. “He threw his arms around me and said, ‘I want to say thank you.’ I said, ‘What are you thanking me for, Mr. President?’ He said, ‘You tried to see me. You got arrested trying to see me.’”

    Clever. So Joe can deny HE said he was arrested. It was Mandela who said it – mistakenly.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  105. Look, if a Senator was arrested in South Africa in 1977 t would’ve been BIG NEWS. I mean headline of the day, news. Also, why didn’t Biden mention it in his Statement on Mandela’s death in 2013?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  106. According to the Daily Mail, Biden said this on Feb 11th:

    ‘I had the great honor of meeting him. I had the great honor of being arrested with our U.N. ambassador on the streets of Soweto trying to get to see him on Robben Island,’ Biden went on.

    he Mandela effect is the strange phenomenon in which many people remember something in a particular way, but are wrong.

    The name was created by paranormal enthusiast, Fiona Broome, who was convinced that she remembered Nelson Mandela dying while he was still in prison in the 1980s.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  107. That Daily Mail article points out another incongruity here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8033033/Joe-Biden-claims-arrested-South-Africa-trying-visit-Nelson-Mandela.html

    Joe Biden claimed he was arrested in Soweto, a township in Johannesburg, which is nearly 870 miles away from Robben Island, off the coast of Cape Town, where Nelson Mandela was jailed

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  108. Still considering voting for Joe Biden in the Primary, DRJ?

    He’s nuts, right?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  109. @102. Getting the bill in the mail is an even bigger mindblower.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  110. United States Senator Joseph Biden being arrested by South Africal would have been a huge news story, obviously, and it would also have been a major diplomatic incident.

    Of course, I am sure everyone here down to the last man, woman, and other understands this. Biden suddenly remembered this when he has to convince black voters in South Carolina to save his failing campaign? I can’t decide if he’s more of a cynical manipulative liar or senile.

    But why decide?

    Anyone on this blog still planning on supporting Joseph Biden in the Primary to oppose Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders has, with all due respect, lost the plot. He can’t win, to start with, and would be a dangerously incompetent President if he did.

    So, maybe support the current Republican President for four more years to keep commie Sanders out (Trump hasn’t ruined the Republic in four years, no matter how distasteful you find him, and he won’t during his lame duck term, either), then try to get your sort of candiate to win the GOP Primary in 2024?

    I mean, doesn’t that sound like a better plan?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  111. The Cold War ended long ago and the post-WW2 world you cling to died o 9/11. You are truly out of touch w/t rapildly changing real world.

    I’d say you and “the kids” are out of touch, AND at variance with the nation’s charter.

    Seems like we find the carriers of tremendous utility, and have right along in all parts of the world.

    You and “the kids” should have the gumption to vote with your feet and hie to France.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  112. Stories that actually hold up:

    [ ] Joe Biden

    [ X ] Empire State Building

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. @110. IYO. The demographics of the nation are changing faster than your pace to keep up. Nevada alone show it. Next yo’ll be shouting ‘Reagan’— then you can listen to the crickets chirp.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. Biden has told, what, two or three fables during this campaign? Trump does that every time he opens his mouth or his tweeting phone.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. Yeah, I read Sanders’ rant about Denmark. Why the f*** should we want America to be Denmark? The sex change operations or the euthanasia? If you want to live in Denmark, move to Denmark!

    nk (1d9030)

  116. @114. The metric system confuses those over 30. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  117. Those under 30, too, who think 10 centimeters is 10 inches. https://brobible.com/culture/article/pete-davidson-ariana-grande-bde-huge/

    nk (1d9030)

  118. 112.
    get those bags packed! Give our regards to the French.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  119. Reagan has exemption/sometimes even open reverence in the Nevada version of the Sanders bloc. For the same reason hes reviled in rightward 40% of the Trump base. Back in the day, that’s how you could tell Mexican from a Puerto Rican was the visceral reaction to a smiley Reagan portrait.

    urbanleftbehind (ed282e)

  120. So … for something I know you will relate with, how many men did their metric system send to the Moon?

    nk (1d9030)

  121. @119. Ask our Germans; zey ver zehr gut at conversion.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. @117. The inevitable cry of the left behind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. Why the f*** should we want America to be Denmark?

    Why speak English? It’s so… Anglo-European. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. It really doesn’t matter if Bernie or any of the other twits actually defeated Trump; as long as the Senate remains GOP an House stays w/t Dems, nothing will get done. Flipping the Senate is the key to change.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. Bernie is 78 years old and childless. Are those under-30s insane? They are going to put their future in the hands of a man who has no future, whose future is all used up? (Click the link, you won’t be sorry.)

    nk (1d9030)

  126. It really doesn’t matter if Bernie or any of the other twits actually defeated Trump; as long as the Senate remains GOP an House stays w/t Dems, nothing will get done.

    Czar Nicholas II put a lot of faith in his Imperial Guard. Chiang Kai-shek put a lot of faith in his ally, the United States.

    You are doing likewise.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  127. Did you try that paper-bag breathing tip? ‘Cuz you’re STILL hysterical…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  128. nk (1d9030) — 2/23/2020 @ 6:10 pm

    Bernie is 78 years old and childless.

    From his second wife, although he has three stepchildren. He has an illegitimate child, Levi, who is now 50 years old (born March 21, 1969) with a former girlfriend, then named Susan Campbell Mott/

    He used to let people in the news media think, as late as 2015, that it was with his first wife, Deborah Messing.is all used up? (Click the link, you won’t be sorry.)

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  129. I am duly corrected, Sammy. Stepchildren and love-children count.

    nk (1d9030)

  130. @125. Pickett had a lot of faith in Lee, too.

    You’re doing likewise.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. Also, that scene with Orson Welles and Marlene Dietrich is worth it all by itself, even if my point is not as strong as I had thought.

    nk (1d9030)

  132. Make America Ordered Again @109.

    Do you mean maybe, “lost the pilot?” I can’t make sense of that sentence either way, though.

    I kind of like Joe Biden – he tried to make the Democratic position more reasonable.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  133. The person currently commenting as Make America Ordered Again is, and has been for a while, what is euphemistically called the ultra-right. They are called something else in the European countries where they have been banned and even expelled. (Hint: Richard B. Spencer and Stefan Molyneux are two of that “mindset” to put it charitably.) Always view his comments through that filter.

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Another cross for JVW to bear:

    Marianne Williamson endorses Bernie Sanders for president

    So with AOC and space-cadet Williamson already in Comrade Senator’s stable, how long will it be until he completes the trifecta of temptresses?

    Dave (1bb933)

  135. — Come on, now! You wouldn’t say “no” to a lady, would you?
    — I don’t know why not? They always say “no” to me.

    nk (1d9030)

  136. So with AOC and space-cadet Williamson already in Comrade Senator’s stable, how long will it be until he completes the trifecta of temptresses?

    The old codger has game, I’ll grant him that.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  137. Do you mean maybe, “lost the pilot?”

    “Lost the plot” is an idiom which means to be confused.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  138. “Lost the plot” is an idiom which means to be confused.

    Yes, just not American English. It’s almost like it’s your job, You almost get the culture you’re tasked with today, but only on the surface. Every post is riddled with tells. Before Brexit, you’re beat must have been trying to peddle falsehoods to the conservative remainers. The US and the UK are different.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  139. I’ll tell you all something, right now. Never mind Trump. I’d rather have brain-eating zombie Hitler as President instead of Buttigieg. https://nypost.com/2020/02/24/9-year-old-boy-asks-pete-buttigieg-for-help-coming-out-as-gay-at-rally/

    nk (1d9030)

  140. Yes, just not American English. It’s almost like it’s your job, You almost get the culture you’re tasked with today, but only on the surface. Every post is riddled with tells. Before Brexit, your beat must have been trying to peddle falsehoods to the conservative remainers. The US and the UK are different.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 2/24/2020 @ 7:27 am

    ding ding ding we have a winner

    Dustin (518706)

  141. 109. 131. 132. 136. 137. 139.

    Make America Ordered Again: Anyone on this blog still planning on supporting Joseph Biden in the Primary to oppose Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders has, with all due respect, lost the plot.

    SF: Do you mean maybe, “lost the pilot?”

    nk: The person currently commenting as Make America Ordered Again is, and has been for a while, what is euphemistically called the ultra-right.They are called something else in the European countries… Always view his comments through that filter.

    [In Europe, the far right is backed by Russia. Moscow no longer promotes socialism – it promotes, slightly modified, white nationalism, fear of Moslems, immigration restrictions and strong hostility towards immigrants or would-be immigrants, alliance with Russia in opposing terrorism, and “Christian civilization.” (There’s no reason for Bernie Sanders to like it.) MAOA seems to be more purely political and anti anti-Trump -SF]

    Make America Ordered Again: “Lost the plot” is an idiom which means to be confused.

    [Like when watching a movie? Never heard of the expression. -SF]

    Colonel Klink (Ret) : Yes, just not American English. It’s almost like it’s your job, You almost get the culture you’re tasked with today, but only on the surface. Every post is riddled with tells. Before Brexit, you’re beat must have been trying to peddle falsehoods to the conservative remainers. The US and the UK are different.

    Dustin: ding ding ding we have a winner

    —————————-

    So you would say: “the penny dropped?”

    Sammy Finkelman (9966eb)


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