Patterico's Pontifications

2/21/2020

Amy Berman Jackson’s Comments: A Rare (These Days) Vindication of the Rule of Law (For Now)

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:49 am



Judge Amy Berman Jackson, during Roger Stone’s sentencing hearing, made some eye-opening comments that I want to highlight. Some of it had to do with the Justice Department’s extraordinary reversal, and her desire to put the lawyers on the hot seat as a result. From the account in the New York Times:

“As I understand it, you are representing the United States of America,” she told John Crabb Jr., an assistant United States attorney, with a trace of sarcasm. “I fear you know less about the case, saw less of the testimony and exhibits than just about every other person in this courtroom.”

“Is there anything you would like to say about why you are the one standing here?” she asked.

Cold as ice. The story says “Mr. Crabb defended the prosecution as a ‘righteous’ effort to hold Mr. Stone to account for ‘serious’ crimes.” Extra Toady Points to Mr. Crabb for using the same word to describe the prosecution (“righteous”) that Bill Barr had used in his interview with ABC News.

Judge Jackson also said that Stone was prosecuted for “covering for” Trump:

In biting tones, Judge Jackson dismissed any notion that the case lacked merit.

She said that Mr. Stone hindered a congressional inquiry of national importance because the truth would have embarrassed the president and his 2016 campaign. The documentary evidence alone, she said, proved that Mr. Stone deceived the House Intelligence Committee about his efforts to obtain information from WikiLeaks about Democratic emails that had been stolen by Russian operatives who sought to influence the 2016 presidential election.

“He was not prosecuted, as some have complained, for standing up for the president. He was prosecuted for covering up for the president,” the judge said. In government inquiries, she added, “the truth still exists. The truth still matters.” Otherwise, she said, “everyone loses.”

This does not mean that she is saying Trump conspired with the Russian government in a manner that is prosecutable, but it does mean that the Trump campaign (specifically Steve Bannon and Rick Gates) had contacts with Wikileaks, through Stone and his confederates. And Stone wanted to cover that up, at least on behalf of Donald Trump’s political well being, if not because he thought a crime had been committed.

Judge Jackson also made it clear that the original recommendation was entirely consistent with DoJ policy. And the prosecutor agreed:

I don’t have time this morning to do a detailed post about how the Justice Department backed off of its revised memo on the Roger Stone sentencing in favor of positions taken in the initial memo that so upset Bill Barr and Donald Trump. Maybe this weekend if I feel motivated and there’s interest. Suffice it to quote from the linked Hill article:

On Thursday … Justice Department prosecutor John Crabb, a recent addition to Stone’s case, defended the original memorandum and a key argument for imposing a stiffer sentence.

“It was done in good faith,” Crabb told U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson, an Obama appointee, before she handed down Stone’s sentence.

. . . .

Crabb also supported a key portion of the original sentencing recommendation that was based in part on Stone’s conduct toward Randy Credico, a comedian and radio host who testified at the trial.

. . . .

[O]n Thursday, Crabb told Jackson that the Justice Department stood behind its initial judgment that the threat against Credico should increase the severity of Stone’s sentence.

“Our position is this enhancement applies,” Crabb said. “And we ask the court to apply it.”

That enhancement was the key enhancement that increased the original recommendation by several years. Following two livetweet feeds of the proceedings, I was stunned to see this concession. It seems that the Justice Department is trying to regain the credibility it has blown through this fiasco. Not so fast, fellas. That’s going to take a lot of time, a new Attorney General, a new President, and even more time still.

Anyone who says the lower sentence “vindicates” Trump or Barr either didn’t read the original memo, has their thinking clouded by partisan views, or both. I predicted 30 months purely based on the original memo, and that was low. The original memo made it clear that there were countervailing factors. It was not difficult to read between the lines and Judge Jackson made it clear that she had not discounted the original memo — which, she noted, had never actually been withdrawn by the government.

All in all, a tawdry episode that will continue to repeat itself as long as Donald Trump is the president. He can’t leave fast enough.

201 Responses to “Amy Berman Jackson’s Comments: A Rare (These Days) Vindication of the Rule of Law (For Now)”

  1. The corruption and proto-communism in the Democrat Party is a national emergency on part with WW2. Trump needs to extend his terms as FDR extended his.

    Now, on a serious note, Nikki’s got a good shot in ’24.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  2. *par

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  3. Also on a serious note, Tucker Carlson (who also has a great shot in ’24) “Calls For Roger Stone Judge’s Impeachment: ‘Democratic Activist Wearing Robes’” as reported in The Daily Caller. I suppose that would be dramatic counter-position to this post’s position.

    Mine is simply that whatever Judge Amy Berman Jackson’s trial was, it sure as heck wasn’t the rule of law: it, with that jury forewoman in particular, was a joke.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  4. Good post, Patterico. I have said before that I have a great deal of respect for Judge Amy Berman Jackson and I admire her even more now.

    I’ll tell you all something else, too. Given this opportunity to showboat, there are a lot of judges who would have given Stone the full nine years.

    nk (1d9030)

  5. With McCabe in the clear I guess it’s safe to return to a “stickler for the law” pose.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  6. Let’s see memo recommends 7-9 years in jail, Trump hating Judge gives 40 month sentence. But somehow the original memo was a winner. How? Did the memo argue for Concurrent sentences? It seems the judges ruling doesn’t vindicate Zelisky and his band of drama queens, but Barr, who thought 7-9 years was excessive.

    In any case, we don’t need Judges being sarcastic and dressing down US Attorneys. She’s proven herself to be biased against Stone, and hopefully this whole case will be thrown out on appeal. And if its not, Trump will Pardon him in November. As he should. If Comey can lie and leak, and McCabe can be “Less than candid” with the FBI IG and skate, why should Stone go to jail?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  7. BTW, I find it scary that some judge might tack on a couple years to someone’s sentence, because they didn’t show enough “respect” for the Judge during the process.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  8. BTW, I find it scary that some judge might tack on a couple years to someone’s sentence, because they didn’t show enough “respect” for the Judge during the process.

    Yep.

    Or to spite a politician who commented on a case.

    She did what I expected her to do, keep the sentence down low enough that Trump wouldn’t pardon it right away (possibly at all), but still stiff enough to be punitive. She tried to thread the needle and get at her political opponents.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  9. Same guys who say this judge acting like a judge was horribly offensive and made them cry will say Trump’s behavior is super presidential.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  10. Poor Tucker Carlson.

    He used to be somebody. Now he’s just another T-rump sucking nutter.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  11. He’s coming into his own and is far beyond Trump in understanding.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  12. I find it scary that we know Trump cheated at his election with the help of a thug, and Trump’s going to pardon the thug, encouraging a more corrupt and violent political system of thugs.

    But at least some judges and most of the DOJ seems to take this corruption seriously, not that they can stop it via normal processes.

    It really makes you appreciate that Romney stood up to the thugs.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  13. The Mueller investigation found nothing. 3 years of sound and fury signifying nothing. But Stone gets 40 months for a process crime. Just like Flynn gets hounded for a process crime that had zero impact on anything. We have two justice systems, one for the Democrats/Liberals, and one for the Republicans and Trump supporters. Fortunately, we have Trump with his pardon power to balance the scale. Trump has said he’ll let the process “play out”. So, stone will have to decide if he wants another trial, or just have the result overturned on appeal and wait for a pardon if it fails. We’re talking 8 months at most.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  14. Trump has good instincts, but his advisors are poor. Tucker has good instincts and seeks out great sources of information moreso. To be fair to Trump, Tucker has more free time to do so, preparing for his shows and not yet governing.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  15. Poor Make America Offal Again and RCPuddles…

    STILL beating their respective dead horses!

    YOU go before ANY judge in the land and threaten him/her, and I flucking guar-on-teeeeee you’ll be lucky to get by with what Jackson gave the idiot T-rump sucking Stone.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  16. “In May 2017, Jackson dismissed a wrongful death suit filed against Hillary Clinton by the parents of two of the Americans killed in the 2012 attack on the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, on the basis of the Westfall Act.”

    Jackson – of course – is a liberal Democrat and was appointed by Obama. So, her ranting against Trump was expected.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  17. What’s that ol’courtroom thing where a judge directs a jury to ignore what a lawyer just said? Barr made his POV known in accordance/the Twitter-In-Chief. Can’t un-ring that bell. Stone will never see the inside of a jail cell. Judge Amy spoke good but the day sh vacates that retrial thingy and orders Stone to surrender to the pokie, Trump goes Glenn Miller and strikes up ‘Chattanooga Choo-Choo':

    “Pardon me boys…”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. But Stone gets 40 months for a process crime.

    I wonder if you ever get tired of lying? Serious question.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  19. BTW, the use of the word “Foreperson” is so freaking annoying. Since we’ve absurdly dropped Chairman and Chairwomen and just use “Chair” – why don’t the SJW’s be consistent and call the foreman/Forewoman a “Fore”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  20. The Mueller investigation found nothing.

    This is lie. In addition to multiple indictments there was a lot of information about how Russia interfered in the election in the first part of his report.

    We have two justice systems, one for the Democrats/Liberals, and one for the Republicans and Trump supporters.

    We have one justice system, and a bunch of conspiracy theory morons looking for excuses to feel aggrieved. Maybe you should believe less things you hear in the media?

    If these process crimes are unjust why hasn’t the Trump administration offered any reform in 3+ years? Wait, this is pointless, you’ve already stated you don’t about the rule of law.

    time123 (36651d)

  21. 13.The Mueller investigation found nothing.

    Step way from the bong; glasses are available under Obamacare.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. The Mueller investigation found nothing.

    It found quite a lot despite Stone doing so much to interfere with it finding anything. We know quite well how corrupt Trump (And indeed many of his supporters are). They hate us for our freedom.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  23. It IS amazing how a liberal Democrat lawyer with public tweets expressing hostility toward Trump AND Stone and who obviously lied on her jury questionnaire, somehow ended up not on the jury but as Forewoman. As a lawyer, she must have known she was doing wrong. BTW, I’ve never read about the 11 other jurors. What was the racial breakdown? It’d be interesting to know. After all, if a black Democrat public figure was being judged by 8 white Republican men we’d never hear the end of it.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  24. I’m sure the Russians were mighty pissed off when America promoted a successful coup in Ukraine, leading to their pro-Russian democratically elected President being deposed and a civil war that cost many ethnic Russian lives in addition their lost influence in favor of NATO, which has been encroaching on their country for decades.

    So there’s that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  25. Lecture us about the “rule of law” when Comey, Brennan, Clapper, McCabe and Hildabitch are in jail. Until then, don’t make me laugh.

    Why haven’t they been charged by the people that Trump appointed to the DOJ? It’s been three years and multiple IG investigations and so far they haven’t been able to get a single one of them indicted. Barr and Trump must be part of the DeEP StaTE™ conspiracy that’s out to get President Trump.

    Or the people that told you how obvious their crimes were and how they would have them put away lied to you….

    time123 (36651d)

  26. Tell me precisely the 3 most important finding of the Mueller investigation, as stated in the reports.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  27. She tried to thread the needle and get at her political opponents.

    That’s another outright lie.

    What she did do is scrupulously follow the law as it applied to this guilty, stupid, scuzzy felon.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  28. Judge Berman Jackson really stuck it the Russians.

    And Putin frowned.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  29. It IS amazing how a liberal Democrat lawyer with public tweets expressing hostility toward Trump AND Stone and who obviously lied on her jury questionnaire,

    Can you prove this or is it another of your lies? Because the record of her verbal answers show that she was clear that he was a democrat that ran for congress.

    time123 (36651d)

  30. 27.Tell me precisely the 3 most important finding of the Mueller investigation, as stated in the reports.
    rcocean (1a839e) — 2/21/2020 @ 8:31 am

    If I do that work will you agree to apologize for the mistake and to refrain from repeating the lie?

    time123 (36651d)

  31. @25. They have a long memory; so there’s that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force_Siberia

    ‘The American Expeditionary Force, Siberia (AEF in Siberia) was a formation of the United States Army involved in the Russian Civil War in Vladivostok, Russia, during the end of World War I after the October Revolution, from 1918 to 1920.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. Amy Berman Jackson is all right to say he caused a Congressional report to be “inaccurate, incorrect and incomplete” and that he tampered wit a witness, but I don’t think he was covering up for the president.

    I see here that she finds he did it this way: By hiding the fact that some people in the Trump campaign were interested in obtaining advance knowledge of what Wikileaks would publish. But I think Stone admitted that. I don’t know if any of the perjury charge concerned that.

    Roger Stone was lying to protect himself. He didn’t want Steve Bannon (and others) to know that he’d lied to them in claiming contacts with wikileaks.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  33. Tucker Carlson is just another slinger of boob-bait for the boobs who still can tolerate his crap.

    But I’ll bet you here and now that Jackson will not only NOT face impeachment, her conduct of this trial will be honored and vindicated.

    And the T-rump sucking cult will still be dupes…at best.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  34. Tucker Carlson is just another slinger of boob-bait for the boobs who still can tolerate his crap.

    Please, underestimate him. Continue.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  35. Please, underestimate him. Continue.

    He’s doing it MUCH better than I COULD.

    I’ll just hold his coat while he digs his hole.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  36. Tucker Carlson is just another slinger of boob-bait for the boobs who still can tolerate his crap.

    But I’ll bet you here and now that Jackson will not only NOT face impeachment, her conduct of this trial will be honored and vindicated.

    And the T-rump sucking cult will still be dupes…at best.

    P.S. Are you a lawyer who actually talks like this (when you’re not commenting on someone’s personal aesthetics—like their skin color makeup, toupée, or whatnot)?

    I mean, I believe you’re a lawyer. I take your word on that. But do you practice in remedial kindergarten law or something?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  37. “Why haven’t they been charged by the people that Trump appointed to the DOJ?“
    time123 (36651d) — 2/21/2020 @ 8:31 am

    Because there are Dem hacks like Molly Gaston in the DOJ who, if Trump found some way to get rid of them, someone named time123 would accuse Trump and Barr of corrupting the DOJ for their partisan purposes. It’s the game you play.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  38. The problem with what she (and others) said is this idea:

    This does not mean that she is saying Trump conspired with the Russian government in a manner that is prosecutable, but it does mean that the Trump campaign (specifically Steve Bannon and Rick Gates) had contacts with Wikileaks, through Stone and his confederates.

    No they didn’t.

    All the evidence indicates that Roger Stone was lying to people in the Trump campaign when he claimed he had an inside line to wikileaks.

    He attempted to gain inside information, and failed.

    One time Roger Stone made a prediction (that more leaks would come on wikileaks 10th anniversary) that turned out to be wrong.

    https://venturebeat.com/2016/10/04/wikileaks-just-punkd-the-internet-by-turning-its-rumored-clinton-reveal-into-an-anniversary-event

    For the last several days, international whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks had been promoting an event that many believed would be a massive release of information that would doom the Clinton campaign.

    That information was supposed to come at a livestreamed press conference that started today at 10 a.m. Central European Time. In other words, for those who detest Clinton in the U.S., they’d have to start watching at 4 a.m. on the East Coast and 1 a.m. on the West Coast.

    Wednesday@HillaryClinton is done. #Wikileaks.

    — Roger Stone (@RogerJStoneJr) October 2, 2016

    Awaiting bombshell from Julian Assange/@wikileaks. @HillaryClinton’s house of cards about to come crashing down. @infowars has live feed!

    — Jacob Engels (@JacobEngels) October 4, 2016

    And stay up all night they did. #WikiLeaks and #OctoberSurprise and #JulianAssange were all trending on Twitter.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  39. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/roger-stones-secret-messages-with-wikileaks/554432

    Stone messages them through Twitter (? – could you DM sch long messages? The Atlantic doesn’t say who provided these messages to the House Intelligence Committee except that they were provided by a third party, – this sounds like they were possibly made available through a secret subpoena) that since he was over national TV, cable and print defending wikileaks and Assange against the charge that they were Russian agents, and also said the sexual assault charges against Assange were trumped up, they might want to reconsider the strategy of attacking him [as a liar I assume]

    That’s on Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 2:05 pm.

    (Likely) assange replies at 3:04 that “we appreciate that” But the “false claims of association” are being used by the Democrats to undermine the impact of their “publications” Son;t go there, he says if he doesn’t want them to correct him.

    That night, at 11:11, Roger Stone says the more they “correct” him, the more people think they are lying. (i.e. that doesn’t accomplish anything) He then claims Assange’s operation leaks like a sieve, (i.e. Stone has a source that Assange doesn’t know about.) He then finishes with: “You need to figure out who your friends are.”

    Stone admitted to the Atlantic that these messages were authentic and said he had given the complete exchange to the House Intelligence Committee. But didn’t respond when asked to give it also to the Atlantic.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  40. Questioning Judge Amy’s ethics in defense of the biggest slimeball ever to pimp out his wife to “exceptional muscular well-hung single men”. Good grief!

    Not that I ever take you Trump-lice seriously (when I don’t block you altogether).

    nk (1d9030)

  41. All the evidence indicates that Roger Stone was lying to people in the Trump campaign when he claimed he had an inside line to wikileaks.

    How convenient. Reminds me of something a mafia foot soldier would say when… let’s be clear, it is astonishing that Trump was elected with all the sexual assault, failure in business, lying, and policy incoherence. It is also amazing that after three years of such naked Russian foreign policy assistance from our white house, some truly harmful to America’s safety and future, that Trump has more than 5% approval. But he does because of the constant disinfo. No truth about Trump goes without endless lying.

    Let’s just admit what we know: Stone helped Trump cheat. Because Stone has always hated a fair election, an honest democracy, and America. These men are not our friends. They also are not the real winners. They, Trump included, are simply possessions of our nation’s enemy.

    Stopping Trump and his army of liars is really about stopping Russia. The consequences for our world are significant. Step one is ensuring Putin doesn’t get his way in getting Sanders nominated. They succeeded in collapsing Biden. Mission accomplished. So every conservative needs to go to the democrat primary and vote for whoever they think is the most conservative democrat who can win.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  42. 37. I guess you have a new cult to follow, the way you are loving in Carlson.

    I thought you were kidding about Duh Donald’s skin color (or, that is his cheap spray-tan). Now I see you were serious.

    Golly.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  43. Carlson.

    He’s not fully where he ought to be, but he’s heading there.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  44. Hey, maybe his boob-baiting will work for him. It does for your other cult hero.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  45. “Anyone who says the lower sentence “vindicates” Trump or Barr either didn’t read the original memo, has their thinking clouded by partisan views, or both.“

    God can you get anymore partisan or biased? ANYONE WHO DOESNT AGREE WITH ME IS EITHER STUPID OR BIAS!!

    Get out of here, you ain’t a judge and never will be. You also aren’t unbiased or non partisan. You are a fat sweaty little late middle aged pos who looks like the Haley Joel Osment. I feel sorry for any woman that has been with you.

    Pr0perty rights (cef076)

  46. Poor Tucker Carlson.

    He used to be somebody. Now he’s just another T-rump sucking nutter.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/21/2020 @ 8:16 am

    Just pointing this out as an example of commentary that won’t get you banned. Think of it what you will shrug lol. Like I care what this little poindexter thinks. It’s just funny the site owner rather let this beta dbag comment than alpha studs like me

    Pr0perty rights (cef076)

  47. @38, Jessie Liu was the head of the DC office during most of McCabe investigation. She was a member of the Trump transition team and a loyal GOP lawyer. Do you have any reason to believe she’s ‘deep state’ or a ‘resistance’. Her replacement who would have approved the decision not to prosecute was a top aid to Bill Bar.

    I don’t know anything about Molly Gaston, other than she’s a DOJ prosecutor. Do you have any evidence to support your accusation about her?

    time123 (36651d)

  48. Anyone who says the lower sentence “vindicates” Trump or Barr either didn’t read the original memo, has their thinking clouded by partisan views, or both. I predicted 30 months purely based on the original memo, and that was low. The original memo made it clear that there were countervailing factors. It was not difficult to read between the lines and Judge Jackson made it clear that she had not discounted the original memo — which, she noted, had never actually been withdrawn by the government.

    Yep. Exactly right.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  49. They, Trump included, are simply possessions of our nation’s enemy.

    Good thing you’re not insane or anything.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  50. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:11 am

    Lol at your entire name, comments, and freaking Internet personality. It’s laughable. Donald flipping Trump is your president whether you like it or not and at the end of the day you will still be an ugly name calling dbag on the internet. Ever notice how that make America whatever guy seems nice/not in a bad mood yet you seem like a sweaty try hard in every comment? I sure as hell do.

    I’ll just sit over here being happy, not having a hate Trump festival, and living life under 10% body fat. #winning

    Pr0perty rights (cef076)

  51. They, Trump included, are simply possessions of our nation’s enemy.

    Good thing you’re not insane or anything.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:15 am

    He’s one of the reasons I’ve even stopped trying to be nice here anymore. He’s in zero danger of being banned, zero.

    Pr0perty rights (cef076)

  52. So are you carnivore or still eating sub-optimal foods (plants)?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  53. I do a 20-4 or 22-2 IF every day. It gives you weird poops but works better than trying to control your diet if you ask me.

    Btw Please tell me I’m not the only one that notices idiots like Ragespierre can say whatever they want yet others that post pro Trump comments would get banned for doing the same thing

    Pr0perty rights (9a8919)

  54. oh hey look another VPN using and banned troll supporting Trump by lying and freaking out at normal people.

    I guess it’s not really ‘another’ guy. Want to share your max dead lift?

    Dustin (0197f6)

  55. After the first couple weeks of adjustment, carnivore optimizes poops. As in there aren’t many. Meat is almost totally digested.

    IF (or longer) is great, especially with electrolytes after the first day.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  56. Good thing you’re not insane or anything.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:15 am

    You Trump guys like to call every honest and reasonable American a cuck or gay or crazy. It’s a lot easier than explaining why Trump betrayed the kurds, warned the Russians before that impotent fake bombing in Syria, or let Iran commit piracy and blow up our drones. Trump’s destruction of America’s alliances and his praise of North Korea and Russia all add up to one very plain fact. Trump belongs to Putin.

    This makes sense, as we all know how hard Russia worked to help get Trump elected. Do you really think they did that for nothing?

    I guess this is all beside the point. If someone criticizes your corrupt president, they must be shut down with some lame Trumpy insult.

    But at the end of the day, in your heart, you know you betrayed your own country to support this POS.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  57. SF: All the evidence indicates that Roger Stone was lying to people in the Trump campaign when he claimed he had an inside line to wikileaks.

    42. Dustin (0197f6) — 2/21/2020 @ 8:58 am

    How convenient.

    It’s not convenient. You don;t fnd Stone saying that.

    But there is no evidence that anyone in the Trump campaign ever obtained any advance knowledge of wikileaks leaks, and this has been thoroughly investigated.

    We have some evidence of some people trying to find out, but none that anybody ever did. If you think there is that they ever got any information in advance, from Roger Stone or anybody else, you can go and try to find it. I don’t think there is any.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  58. Want to share your max dead lift?

    I’m skeptical of the risk to reward ratio for deadlifts. I prefer barbell hip thrusts, barbell hack squats, dead pulls (or block pulls) below and above the knee.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  59. She’s proven herself to be biased against Stone…

    How did she “prove” that? A jury convicted Stone, not the judge.
    Oh, and another word for “process crime” is felony.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  60. I’m sure the Russians were mighty pissed off when America promoted a successful coup in Ukraine…

    That’s Russian propaganda. It was a homegrown popular revolution that forced Yanukovych to flee to Mother Russia to avoid a Ukrainian prison cell.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  61. A jury convicted Stone, not the judge.

    With a corrupt juror, a sophisticated lawyer, a former Democrat Party candidate and activist, who was tweeting gleefully hours before the verdict was announced, and minimized both the degree to which she followed the Stone case and her activism before being placed on the jury, which she got herself made fore of.

    There’s no evidence that the judge gives a poop or considers it anything less than a feature, not a bug.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  62. It’s not convenient. You don;t fnd Stone saying that.

    Sammy, I think anything defending these guys based on assumptions that Stone alone was the bad guy is a clear dirty trick from a guy who brags about fooling everyone in all his clever little lying ways.

    There have been an awful lot of juries convicting an awful lot of Trump campaign guys and administration guys of cheating. They are all a bunch of crooks.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  63. That’s Russian propaganda. It was a homegrown popular revolution that forced Yanukovych to flee to Mother Russia to avoid a Ukrainian prison cell.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:37 am

    But why would a Trump supporter spread Russian propaganda? How would they even learn Russian propaganda if all they read is Ace of Spades and Gateway Pundit. I am truly shaken by this revelation that supporting Trump is really … supporting our nation’s enemy.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  64. Tomeka Hart is purging her social media history but lotsa meaty stuff been preserved.

    Lol anyone defending the result w her as jury foreman.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/who-is-tomeka-hart
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  65. Tell me precisely the 3 most important finding of the Mueller investigation, as stated in the reports.

    Easy. One, the “sweeping and systematic” effort directed by Putin to help Trump win and to sow discord. Two, Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between Trump people and Putin people to help Trump win, where “did not establish” explicitly means that evidence existed of a conspiracy but not enough to conclude with confidence. Three, ten counts of obstruction of justice by Trump.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  66. With a corrupt juror, a sophisticated lawyer, a former Democrat Party candidate and activist, who was tweeting gleefully hours before the verdict was announced, and minimized both the degree to which she followed the Stone case and her activism before being placed on the jury, which she got herself made fore of.

    Same old, broke and busted set of BS.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  67. He can’t leave fast enough.

    Tomorrow would be fine.

    Dave (1bb933)

  68. One, the “sweeping and systematic” effort directed by Putin to help Trump win and to sow discord.

    “Sew discord” is about as vague as you can get. But I will look up the Report to see what Putin did to “Help Trump win” and is there’s anything there except hot air.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  69. The Judge’s Comment, “…covering up for the president,” implies that the judge is aware and has evidence of a crime committed by the President.

    She should announce it publically and make a criminal referral.

    Miller Smith (34229f)

  70. Dustin:

    Reminds me of something a mafia foot soldier would say when… let’s be clear, it is astonishing that Trump was elected with all the sexual assault, failure in business, lying, and policy incoherence.

    Somehow that did not come through, r there were other considerations some voters had.

    It is also amazing that after three years of such naked Russian foreign policy assistance from our white house, some truly harmful to America’s safety and future, that Trump has more than 5% approval. But he does because of the constant disinfo. No truth about Trump goes without endless lying.

    Well, actually he didn’t really help Russia al that much.

    The main result is that now both political parties are united against Russian policy.

    Let’s just admit what we know: Stone helped Trump cheat.

    How? He maybe he could help them “cheat” a little.

    Because Stone has always hated a fair election, an honest democracy, and [an honest?] America.

    I don’t know if hate is the right word, but that seems to be true.

    These men are not our friends.

    Well, that’s true. They’re not friends of Russia or wikileaks either.

    They also are not the real winners.

    With Stone heading to federal prison – atleast until and unless that iss topped – that seems to be the case.

    They, Trump included, are simply possessions of our nation’s enemy.

    No they’re not. He does everything Russia wants?

    Stopping Trump and his army of liars is really about stopping Russia. The consequences for our world are significant. Step one is ensuring Putin doesn’t get his way in getting Sanders nominated. They succeeded in collapsing Biden.

    They couldn’t have done that without Adam Schiff and the Great Impeachment. The Streisand effect, you know.

    And I don’t think Putin was trying to damage Biden at that stage. The Biden material was there just to interest Giuliani. It would carry alog with it what he really wanted Trump to hear. What he really wanted to do was get some officials fired, and damage U.S. relations with Ukraine

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  71. 71. Miller Smith (34229f) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:47 am

    The Judge’s Comment, “…covering up for the president,” implies that the judge is aware and has evidence of a crime committed by the President.

    No, it could also mean something embarrassing or politically damaging for the president.

    The lies that Roger Stone told seem to be the kind of lies designed to protect his reputation (and maybe also his perceived value) to political campaign consultants.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  72. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:47 am

    But I will look up the Report to see what Putin did to “Help Trump win” and is there’s anything there except hot air.

    Release of secrets of the Democrats, sockpuppets, and Facebook ads.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  73. With a corrupt juror, a sophisticated lawyer, a former Democrat Party candidate and activist, who was tweeting gleefully hours before the verdict was announced, and minimized both the degree to which she followed the Stone case and her activism before being placed on the jury, which she got herself made fore of.
    There’s no evidence that the judge gives a poop or considers it anything less than a feature, not a bug.
    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:38 am

    The bolded part is a lie as the record of the questioning of the Jury shows.

    time123 (36651d)

  74. Just pointing this out as an example of commentary that won’t get you banned.

    You should read the commenting rules. It’s not okay to call you a Trump-sucking nutter, but it’s okay to call Tucker a Trump-sucking nutter, unless he joins these comment threads.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  75. “It’s my strong opinion that the forewoman of the jury, the woman who was in charge of the jury, is totally tainted,” Trump said. “When you take a look, how can you have a person like this? She was an anti-Trump activist. Can you imagine this?”

    That’s the thug-in-chief making a false statement about an ordinary US citizen because she was part of a jury that found Stone guilty.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  76. I think Putin hurt Trump more than he helped because Hillary said Putin wanted Trump because he wanted Russian puppet as POTUS.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  77. 66. Read your blurb, harkin.

    No word about Hart purging any damn thing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  78. The Judge’s Comment, “…covering up for the president,” implies that the judge is aware and has evidence of a crime committed by the President.
    She should announce it publically and make a criminal referral.
    Miller Smith (34229f) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:47 am

    No, I covered up for my teammate the other day by letting his mistake look like mine. No crime was committed and he wouldn’t have been punished in any real way. He just would have been a little embarrassed.

    time123 (36651d)

  79. Reading volume I of the Mueller report, reminded me of what a bunch of hot air it was. After you toss out the “Russia tried to reach out to the Trump campaign” and vague talk of “Sowing discord through social media” whatever the Beep that means. You get this ONE Thing:

    In March 2016, the GRU began hacking the email accounts of Clinton Campaign
    volunteers and employees, including campaign chairman John Podesta. In April 2016, the GRU
    hacked into the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
    (DCCC) and the Democratic National Committee (DNC). The GRU stole hundreds of thousands
    of documents from the compromised email accounts and networks. Around the time that the DNC
    announced in mid-June 2016 the Russian government’s role in hacking its network, the GRU
    began disseminating stolen materials through the fictitious online personas “DCLeaks” and
    “Guccifer 2.0.” The GRU later released additional materials through the organization WikiLeaks.

    That’s it. What Mueller doesn’t say is the GRU tried to hack the REPUBLICAN server but couldn’t because the R’s didn’t have an computer illiterate as campaign chairman.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  80. With a corrupt juror…

    A juror that Stone’s lawyers knew was a Democrat politician. Mr. French said it well:

    So let’s recap. Stone’s lawyers knew that she was generally familiar with Stone, they knew she ran for Congress, they specifically asked about political bias, and then refused to seek her removal.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  81. What Mueller doesn’t say is the GRU tried to hack the REPUBLICAN server but couldn’t because the R’s didn’t have an computer illiterate as campaign chairman.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:56 am

    what’s your point? Putin and Trump hate the gop.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  82. BTW, the most hilarious thing about the Mueller Report is how many times you look for the source of a statement and you see…wait for it….a reference to a media outlet like the NYT or the WaPo! Yes, Mueller read the newspapers and used that to support his investigation. Laughable.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  83. But I will look up the Report to see what Putin did to “Help Trump win” and is there’s anything there except hot air.

    Noted that, since you acknowledged that you haven’t read the report, you were making sh*t up when you said Mueller “found nothing”. Thank you for that admission.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  84. 81. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:56 am

    . What Mueller doesn’t say is the GRU tried to hack the REPUBLICAN server but couldn’t because the R’s didn’t have an computer illiterate as campaign chairman.

    And an incompetent IT consultant. He told Podesta’s aides the phishing email was legitimate. He said later he mistyped. That he meant not legitimate, but left out a word. But he told him to reset the password. He did give him a method that involved two factor authentication but did not say why that should be used, and 2-factor authentication was inconvenient for Podesta.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  85. Ah the Rev. French, Mr. Christian Integrity, is now playing the “Your lawyer screwed up, too bad” game. Actually, its not up to the Defense to scour through social media and investigate the background of jurors. They knew Ms. Forewoman was a lawyer and a Democrat. But they didn’t know she was Trump hater and had publicly attacked Stone and Trump ONLINE. They relied on her answers – lies – that she didn’t know nothin’ about nothin’ regarding Roger Stone and only “half followed the news”.

    i love the Rev. French because if we didn’t have his word for it, we’d think he was a liberal democrat.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  86. Stone’s lawyers knew that she was generally familiar with Stone, they knew she ran for Congress, they specifically asked about political bias, and then refused to seek her removal.
    Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/21/2020 @ 9:57 am

    Makes sense if you see they are using this as ‘proof’ the system was rigged. IF this lady is so bad, they rigged the system against themselves as a smokescreen for a pardon.

    The one consistent thing these days is intense and endless lying about how the bad guys are really victims all the time.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  87. “Noted that, since you acknowledged that you haven’t read the report, you were making sh*t up when you said Mueller “found nothing”. Thank you for that admission.”

    No. where did i acknowledge that? Of course Mueller “Found nothing”. If he had, the D’s would’ve impeached Trump for the wrong doing, instead of their absurd Ukraine military aid nonsense. that after all was the D’s Plan. The Mueller report would find Trump did something wrong, then we’d get impeachment. But Mueller struck out.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  88. Actually, its not up to the Defense to scour through social media and investigate the background of jurors.

    Actually it IS.

    And you’re just chanting the same old lies.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  89. And an incompetent IT consultant.

    Who later designed the Iowa caucus App.

    Just joking.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  90. What Mueller doesn’t say is the GRU tried to hack the REPUBLICAN server but couldn’t because the R’s didn’t have an computer illiterate as campaign chairman.

    You don’t have to further convince me that you haven’t read the report, but you haven’t read the report. Try Footnote 140 in Volume I. Mueller did say that.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  91. “He spent the past 30 or so minutes trashing one of our colleagues, Neil Cavuto, for no reason in particular,” Fox News contributor Richard Fowler said during a segment analyzing the rally Thursday. “This speaks to the problem with this presidency. He can run on the good economy and I will give him points for that, but to sit on this air and trash a good journalist, it speaks to the problem that we have.”…

    Fox Business anchor, Trish Regan also came to Cavuto’s defense following Trump’s attacks.

    “It’s come to my attention that the president while speaking to that crowd in Colorado Springs said some rather disparaging things about one of my colleagues someone who I respect tremendously, Neil Cavuto,” Regan said. “(Cavuto) is someone who started this network, Fox Business, and someone who is the utmost journalist and always fair, I can tell you that about Neil. He is a fair person, a fair guy, and a good man.”

    The pathological narcissistic man-child is a universal hater of anyone who does not apply the lips with sufficient vigor.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  92. rcocean (#83):

    But they didn’t know she was Trump hater and had publicly attacked Stone and Trump ONLINE.

    Do you have a source for the accusation she had attacked Stone online?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  93. Ah the Rev. French, Mr. Christian Integrity…

    Ad hominem is the predictable way to avoid substance. Between the jury questionnaire and voir dire, a competent defense team should be able to decide whether a juror is too biased, and they refused to dismiss her.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  94. Of course Mueller “Found nothing”

    How can you say that when you didn’t read the report? It’s just a basic truth that you’re making sh*t up when you say “found nothing”.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  95. “Lies that help Donald Trump are no vice, and honesty which hurts Donald Trump is no virtue.” — The Trump-lice credo.

    nk (1d9030)

  96. Do you have a source for the accusation she had attacked Stone online?

    Sure he does, other people claiming the thing happened. Or are you specifically asking for him to prove that the thing he claimed actually happened?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  97. On April Fools, someone should pretend they are OANN and offer lavish contracts plus buyouts and settlements to Carlson, Hannity, and Dobbs.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  98. All in all, a tawdry episode that will continue to repeat itself as long as Donald Trump is the president. He can’t leave fast enough.

    It will at least continue to be revealed as long as he is president. With another president more akin to the Establishment it might not be. Nobody got a “high five” (or promoted) in the newsroom for exposing Barack Obama’s faults.

    It is becoming clear that the greatest danger to the Rule of Law is not unscrupulous politicians — we have always had them and we always will — but prosecutorial discretion based on political alignment, or patronage.

    Yes, this case was one example, but that it was exposed, while others were not (e.g. where is the AG’s memo about Clapper’s perjury before Congress) simply shows the bias inherent in the system.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  99. There is no serious dispute that Russia interfered in the 2016 elections. “I am confident that the Russians meddled in this election, as is the entire intelligence community,” said then-CIA Director Mike Pompeo. “This threat is real.” Top national security officials of both parties have supported this conclusion.

    So, like the FACT that Woodrow Wilson (populist who was elected in a landslide during a populist/Progressive era)…

    there is no doubt that Russia undertook a serious covert effort to screw with our democracy. This is quite distinct from an overt effort to persuade voters one way or the other.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. ‘How can you say that when you didn’t read the report? It’s just a basic truth that you’re making sh*t up when you say “found nothing”.’
    Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/21/2020 @ 10:24 am

    Yeah, Mueller found something.

    It was IG Horowitz that found nothing, apparently. Just read the report.

    Munroe (866ee4)

  101. Ah the Rev. French, Mr. Christian Integrity, is now playing the “Your lawyer screwed up, too bad” game. Actually, its not up to the Defense to scour through social media and investigate the background of jurors. They knew Ms. Forewoman was a lawyer and a Democrat. But they didn’t know she was Trump hater and had publicly attacked Stone and Trump ONLINE. They relied on her answers – lies – that she didn’t know nothin’ about nothin’ regarding Roger Stone and only “half followed the news”.

    The main reason people hire lawyers (and doctors, accountants, plumbers, electricians, etc.) is they have special knowledge that enables them to help their clients. Litigators know that it is up to them to ferret out problem jurors, which is why they get an advance list of potential jurors, completed jury questionnaires based on questions they want answered, and time to question potential jurors called voir dire. Some defendants even hire jury consultants to help them investigate and evaluate jurors.

    Everyone knows the jury pool in DC is overwhelmingly Democratic. The defense may have objected to this juror for cause and been overruled, or it may have accepted this juror because other potential jurors were worse. Or it may have accepted her based on misleading answers. We should find out more in the hearing on Stone’s motion for new trial.

    Random observations (just my opinion):

    1. Stone is lucky the Judge already imposed sentence because now his attorneys know that nothing they say in the hearing on a new trial will affect sentencing. They won’t be rude but they don’t have to worry about unintended consequences of their arguments.

    2. Motions for new trial are routinely made in every guilty verdict and almost always immediately denied in the courtroom or in orders after they are filed. The fact that the Judge has set this for hearing shows she is taking the allegations regarding this juror seriously.

    DRJ (15874d)

  102. It is becoming clear that the greatest danger to the Rule of Law is not unscrupulous politicians — we have always had them and we always will

    “Politicians” encompasses countless people. But there have only been 45 presidents, and we have never had another president as ineffably vile and shamelessly corrupt as Donald Trump. Not even close.

    Trying to ignore the fact that the President of the United States is not just any old politician is a category error that invalidates any conclusion that follows.

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. This is the source of RCO’s comment, I think. Not sure the retweeting and the generic case citation contradict what was said in voir dire.

    Appalled (b885b1)

  104. One reason I returned (briefly) to blogging here is that having frequent new content gives people opportunities to post on new topics and IMO helps prevent the personal sniping and rehashing of grudges over several days. I still think that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  105. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7998815/amp/Tomeka-Hart-Roger-Stone-jury-foreperson-revealed-anti-Trump-activist.html?__twitter_impression=true

    This was link I was trying to paste. The juror has some retweets and a twitter post or two suggesting she had a pre-formed negative opinion of Stone and his case

    Appalled (1a17de)

  106. 196 …..probably without actually knowing much about what the case was about.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  107. The greatest danger to the Rule of Law is people deciding it doesn’t work so we can ignore it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. 100. Woodrow Wilson was not elected in a landslide – either time. In 1912, it was a 3-way race – a landslide loss for Taft but not a landslide victory for Wilson. Theodore Roosevelt came in second.

    In 1916, it was so close Wilson went to bed thinking he had lost. (or was it that Hughes thought he’d won?)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  109. The greatest danger [solution to] to [lack of] the Rule of Law is people deciding [realizing] it doesn’t work so we can ignore it [give President Trump a simply huge mandate this time, then put Tucker Carlson in office in ’24].

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  110. #107

    That was my thought as well. The remarks were very generic.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  111. This all would never have come out if she hadn’t sent out that tweet praising the prosecutors during the hullabaloo over the first sentencing memo. But she just could not keep quiet.

    Never trust a woman to keep a secret, comrades! Never!

    nk (1d9030)

  112. Just a sidenote- Most of the mid to upper level bureaucrats in the Justice department are Bush era people. Anyone who joined in the Obama era is too junior to have much influence and most of the Clinton people are gone.

    Nic (896fdf)

  113. The greatest danger to the Rule of Law is people deciding it doesn’t work so we can ignore it.
    DRJ (15874d) — 2/21/2020 @ 11:03 am

    The proper action when standards and principles aren’t being met is not to discard them entirely but re-affirm their value a double down bringing them back.
    Trump knew that on some level, which is why he promised to drain the swamp. Instead he’s using power corruptly for different ends. When a dem get’s elected they’ll do everything Trump has done plus some and point to Trump as their precedent.

    time123 (36651d)

  114. So you trust one man, Trump, to “fix” the system created by the Founders, some of the most brilliant men in our history? That is truly terrifying.

    DRJ (15874d)

  115. “Politicians” encompasses countless people. But there have only been 45 presidents, and we have never had another president as ineffably vile and shamelessly corrupt as Donald Trump. Not even close.

    How soon we forget Bill Clinton. Go read the articles of impeachment again. Perjury and suborning perjury, witness tampering, obstruction, document destruction, etc. And no one has accused Trump of rape.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. The greatest danger to the Rule of Law is people deciding it doesn’t work so we can ignore it.

    No, it is in looking the other way as it is used as a club instead of a principle.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  117. Of course they have.

    DRJ (15874d)

  118. @116, are there a dozen plus accusations of sexual assault against trump?

    Time123 (3450f6)

  119. Bill Clinton was not as vile or corrupt as Trump.

    Ivana’s brutal rape accusation against Trump is credible and specific, defended with a ‘you can’t rape your wife’ argument. And Trump famously bragged about sexually assaulting women.

    Far from forgetting Clinton, many of the extremely lame defenses of Trump have really helped focus the GOP’s previous family and values focused anger at Clinton for his crimes.

    Dustin (0197f6)

  120. The law has been misused by people throughout history, but deciding it isn’t working and should be ignored is how we get anarchy. Do we throw out science, religion or reason because of some abusers?

    DRJ (15874d)

  121. So you trust one man, Trump, to “fix” the system created by the Founders, some of the most brilliant men in our history? That is truly terrifying.

    Some much wrong in so little.

    1) Our system is massively perverted from what the Founders created, particularly in the size and scope of the federal government.

    2) I don’t trust Trump to “fix” anything. But he might break things that need breaking.

    Populism is a very blunt instrument for change, and usually shows up after all the less blunt methods have been thwarted. The People would rather be home watching TV than out in the street with torches. But when the elite frack up so terribly badly, that is their last resort.

    What is truly terrifying is that “Trump” seemed like the best remaining choice to an awful lot of people. Trump is a reaction to a corrupt and unresponsive system. That no one was concerned HE is corrupt is a statement, not an oversight.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. So you trust one man, Trump, to “fix” the system

    No, not really. That’s why there’s a plan B: Tucker gets it more.

    However, both are better than this abysmal crop of Democrats.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  123. The law has been misused by people throughout history, but deciding it isn’t working and should be ignored is how we get anarchy. Do we throw out science, religion or reason because of some abusers?

    Out of curiosity, did you miss the American Revolution in history class?

    In any case, stopping communists from taking over is a priority. Further, I’m sure I mentioned ensuring the President is re-elected with a bigger mandate and not anarchy.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  124. Wilson directed campaign finance chairman Henry Morgenthau not to accept contributions from corporations and to prioritize smaller donations from the widest possible quarters of the public.[108] During the election campaign, Wilson asserted that it was the task of government “to make those adjustments of life which will put every man in a position to claim his normal rights as a living, human being.”[109] With the help of legal scholar Louis D. Brandeis, he developed his New Freedom platform, focusing especially on breaking up trusts and lowering tariff rates.[110] Brandeis and Wilson rejected Roosevelt’s proposal to establish a powerful bureaucracy charged with regulating large corporations, instead favoring the break-up of large corporations in order to create a level economic playing field.[111]

    Or Wilson was a populist.

    Wilson engaged in a spirited campaign, criss-crossing the country to deliver numerous speeches.[112] Ultimately, he took 42 percent of the popular vote and 435 of the 531 electoral votes.[113] Roosevelt won most of the remaining electoral votes and 27.4 percent of the popular vote, one of the strongest third party performances in U.S. history. Taft won 23.2 percent of the popular vote but just 8 electoral votes, while Debs won 6 percent of the popular vote.

    Sorry, Sammy. 435 of 531 electoral votes WAS a landslide in that election. And Wilson was a populist Progressive, and he was one of the most dangerous POTUS in our history.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  125. Trump is a reaction to a corrupt and unresponsive system.

    T-rump IS a byword for a corrupt and unresponsive system. He’s sold a bucket of boob-bait for decades, much of it predicated on a series of lies, pitting Americans against each other, and stupid false economic demagoguery.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  126. Poor _____________ .

    He used to be somebody. Now he’s just another T-rump sucking nutter.

    Someone’s inching veryclose to occupying that underscore.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  127. T-rump IS a byword

    In your mind maybe. In reality, no:

    1. a word or phrase associated with some person or thing; a characteristic expression, typical greeting, or the like.
    2. a word or phrase used proverbially; common saying; proverb.
    3. an object of general reproach [Trump, maybe: T-rump, no], derision, scorn, etc.:
    His crimes will make him a byword through the ages.
    4. an epithet, often of scorn.

    I get what you’re trying to do, but you’re failing miserably. You’re coming across as an elementary school kid, not even juvenile, with a favorite insult. One of many, many insults, in your case; again, coming across as an elementry school kid.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  128. The greatest danger to the Rule of Law is people deciding it doesn’t work so we can ignore it.

    Selective application is what undermines any confidence in it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  129. I get what you’re trying to do, but you’re failing miserably.

    Again, I’ll bet you that Judge Jackson is never impeached as your new man-crush advocates.

    I’ll also bet you that Carlson himself gets over his skis and starts losing audience. He IS a right-Progressive, like Duh Donald (pbuh).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  130. “Try Footnote 140 in Volume I. Mueller did say that.”

    Oh, he says it in a FOOTNOTE. Haha. HEre’s what Mueller writes:

    The GRU released through dcleaks.comthousands of documents, including personal identifying and financial information, internal correspondence related to the Clinton Campaign and prior political jobs, and fundraising files and information

    So where’s the bit about the Republicans? Well here’s the footnote that goes with that sentence:

    See, e.g., Internet Archive, “https://dcleaks.com/” (archive date Nov.Personal Privacy
    10, 2016). Additionally, DCLeaks released documents relating to , emails belonging
    to , and emails from 2015 relating to Republican Party employees (under the portfolio name
    “The United States Republican Party”). “The United States Republican Party” portfolio contained
    approximately 300 emails from a variety of GOP members, PACs, campaigns, state parties, and businesses dated between May and October 2015. According to open-source reporting, these victims shared the same Tennessee-based web-hosting company, called Smartech Corporation. William Bastone, RNC E-Mail Was,In Fact, Hacked By Russians, The Smoking Gun (Dec. 13, 2016).

    Oh, how could anyone miss that? LOL. notice the source. “THE SMOKING GUN”. Yes that’s right the multi-million dollar Mueller investigation with “40 FBI agents” is quoting a for-profit internet website!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  131. When the Democrats get rid of “Sanctuary Cities” and start enforcing the drug laws, then I’ll believe In “The rule of law”.

    Until then, I’ll just keep laughing every time someone brings it up.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  132. Jes’ to keep it real, Clinton cracked down (see what I did there?) on drugs, and your cult leader (pbuh) has let a lot of those laws go lax.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  133. I think in footnote 463, Mueller noted he didn’t know what FusionGPS was.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  134. When the Democrats get rid of “Sanctuary Cities” and start enforcing the drug laws, then I’ll believe In “The rule of law”.

    Until then, I’ll just keep laughing every time someone brings it up.

    Well, it’s awesome that federal drug prosecutions increased since Trump was elected…wait, it’s 66% lower now than under Obama? Trump must have just made people so happy, that drug use is down by 2/3rds, he’s so powerful.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  135. Do you deny that the documents were released as described?

    You yourself insisted that hacking of the RNC took place just a few posts back.

    Dave (1bb933)

  136. President Donald Trump’s new acting intelligence director, Richard Grenell, used to do consulting work on behalf of an Eastern European oligarch who is now a fugitive and was recently barred from entering the U.S. under anti-corruption sanctions imposed last month by the State Department.

    In 2016, Grenell wrote severalarticles defending the oligarch, a Moldovan politician named Vladimir Plahotniuc, but did not disclose that he was being paid, according to records and interviews. Grenell also did not register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which generally requires people to disclose work in the U.S. on behalf of foreign politicians.

    FARA is the same law that Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort and former deputy campaign manager Rick Gates were convicted of violating. (Manafort went to trial. Gates pleaded guilty.)

    Is it going to be weird that Trump’s DNI can’t pass a background check?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  137. Well, it’s awesome that federal drug prosecutions increased since Trump was elected…wait, it’s 66% lower now than under Obama? Trump must have just made people so happy, that drug use is down by 2/3rds, he’s so powerful.

    Trump prefers to let drug dealers *out* of prison rather than putting them *in* prison:

    The First Step Act would give federal judges more leeway when sentencing some drug offenders and boost prisoner rehabilitation efforts. It also would reduce life sentences for some drug offenders with three convictions, or “three strikes,” to 25 years. Another provision would allow about 2,600 federal prisoners sentenced for crack cocaine offenses before August 2010 the opportunity to petition for a reduced penalty.

    Some of the gang leaders Trump unleashed on society have already murdered innocents.

    “This case is upsetting but it’s not a surprise,” said Sen. Tom Cotton, an Arkansas Republican who was one of the bill’s biggest critics on Capitol Hill. “Letting violent felons out of prison early as the First Step Act did leads to more crime and more victims.”

    Other lawmakers who supported the bill called the incident a tragedy, but hoped that it wouldn’t stand in the way of more progress.

    LOL, “progress”.

    But what are a few dead if it gets Trump a photo-op with Kanye?

    Dave (1bb933)

  138. Is it going to be weird that Trump’s DNI can’t pass a background check?

    Like Trump himself could?

    Dave (1bb933)

  139. …I’m sayin’…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  140. 2) I don’t trust Trump to “fix” anything. But he might break things that need breaking.

    Breaking things indiscriminately is not likely to lead to good results. It is more likely to lead to resentment, corruption, chaos, and anarchy. We have laws because those things don’t lead to successful societies.

    DRJ (15874d)

  141. “Like Trump himself could?”
    Dave (1bb933) — 2/21/2020 @ 2:16 pm

    Unlike Bush Jr., he could pass a drug test.

    Of the many drug dealers Bush pardoned, what are the odds he pardoned his own?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  142. Out of curiosity, did you miss the American Revolution in history class?

    In any case, stopping communists from taking over is a priority. Further, I’m sure I mentioned ensuring the President is re-elected with a bigger mandate and not anarchy.

    I was talking about the American experience and history with the Rule of Law, as evidenced by the fact that I joined the discussion by specifically referencing our Founders. I am sorry I did not make that more clear. But if we want to go far back in history, it was the organized Western societies that followed some degree of law and order that have been most successful. Even the Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle recognized the relationship between the collapse of laws and then the state. Someone whose very name is Make America Ordered Again surely realizes that the way to bring order to society is through laws.

    As for the second part of your comment, if all that stands between America and Communism is Trump then we are doomed already.

    DRJ (15874d)

  143. Of the many drug dealers Bush pardoned, what are the odds he pardoned his own?

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/21/2020 @ 2:30 pm

    Zero unless you want to research all his pardons and show us otherwise.

    DRJ (15874d)

  144. Chaos, well lead, reorganizes order.

    Decay doesn’t.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  145. Then we should elect a socialist. It doesn’t get more chaotic than that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  146. Corruption is decay.

    DRJ (15874d)

  147. justice is dead for the working class

    mg (8cbc69)

  148. Chaos, well lead, reorganizes order.

    We are ssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooo screwed…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  149. justice is dead for the working class
    –N. Lenin

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  150. Chaos theory as a method to lead America is not credible. Chaos theory holds that there are “underlying patterns, interconnectedness, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, and self-organization” and that is true in capital markets and likely in politics, but to try to translate that to a society led by Donald Trump and expect it to succeed is incredible. No human being can understand, anticipate, react to, and control all those variables — in the markets or in politics — let alone Trump. You are begging for anarchy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  151. No one’s talking about mathematical chaos theory, FFS.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  152. In other words, there is no leadership possible in chaos theory. We are just along for the always bumpy ride. Socialists think they are smart and can understand and fix the market to get the best results, but it never works. Now Republicans think their smart Trump can understand and fix politics to get the best results.

    DRJ (15874d)

  153. Chaos theory is about the underlying order in seemingly random behavior. Very much like postulating how chaos, well led, can reorganize order.

    DRJ (15874d)

  154. In other words, there is no leadership possible in chaos theory. We are just along for the always bumpy ride.

    The whole point of chaos theory is that seemingly random conditions produce order, which varies a lot depending on initial conditions.

    So. No.

    Out of chaos comes order, like it or not, eventually. I’m pushing for a better order than the slide into communism and national mental illness, where you have to pretend things that aren’t true are true in order to fit in.

    However, I mean it in the traditional meaning of the word that sometimes you have to break something to improve it.

    If this can’t work, it’s news to, say, SOCOM, and they should change their curricular rapidly.

    What Is a VUCA Environment?

    “VUCA” stands for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity—the hallmarks of this accelerating business environment we now find ourselves in. Special Operations teams have mastered leading in VUCA environments in Iraq and Afghanistan; they had to in order to both survive and achieve their mission. But what does it feel like for the business leader to operate in a similar, albeit less dangerous, environment? It’s not unreasonable to say it can be downright confusing and scary… but when you learn to deal effectively with rapid change, you will see many incredible opportunities to get excited about.

    from THE WAY OF THE SEAL—Think Like an Elite Warrior to Lead and Succeed—UPDATED AND EXPANDED EDITION by Commander Mark Divine

    See Principle 6, its own chapter, from the same book:

    Principle 6: Break Things—Apply Total Commitment, Fail Forward Fast, Navigate Gaps for Opportunity, Innovate and Adapt Quickly

    Incidentally, Divine worked for McRaven directly, the latter of whom would be an excellent VP pick for the Dems.

    It’s not about top-down control. It’s about better initial conditions, including leadership, and someone who understands how to create and do something with chaos in a VUCA environment: that’s your President.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  155. The Bernie people also want lead chaos. Hence the Bern it down stuff. Their theories aren’t any better.

    Nic (896fdf)

  156. I mean, I know you like to look at law books and check this section number and reference this old case and so on and so forth. But that’s not how most of the world actually works: it includes chaos and order.

    You intervene to make a better order. Right now the system is broken and does need massive change, with some major disruption thrown in.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  157. You can’t get rid of chaos by trying to do as little as possible! It’s there in nature. A good leader knows this and uses it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  158. It’s about better initial conditions, including leadership, and someone who understands how to create and do something with chaos in a VUCA environment: that’s your President.

    You are hilarious, vato…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  159. It’s how Trump won the nomination vs. Mike Bloomberg’s attrition warfare campaign, and playing it safe/sedated at the debate. Attrition can work, but you’d better have major resources and not make major screw-ups.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  160. A leader who strikes at the schwerpunkt can deal with some things going wrong and allow some weak points. Ask Darius III at Gaugamela.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  161. Chaos, well lead, reorganizes order.

    Decay doesn’t.

    Whoa dude that’s deep.

    That means … one tiny atom in my fingernail could be … Could be one little… tiny universe.

    Dave (b1bec7)

  162. A leader who…

    Welp, I found your problem!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  163. Alexander … imparted … chaos.

    And he knew what he was doing. The fact that other minds, including most of his own officers, didn’t estimate the reaction he would impart correctly doesn’t change the fact that he did. Hannibal, Africanus, Napoleon, Caesar, Patton, Guderian, Nelson—all truly great officers use this principle.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  164. Even freaking George Soros does in currency markets.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  165. Yes, the market does bring order to chaos at times, but only briefly, and VUCA is about helping businesses survive in their little corner of chaotic market conditions. But the market itself cannot be led.

    Why would we want to bring more chaos to America? The point of a system of laws and government is to bring order to chaos — to provide reliable structure so people can save, invest, buy homes, etc., knowing the system is fairly stable. They can’t do that in chaos. Only the weakest, least successful people want chaos.

    DRJ (15874d)

  166. You don’t desire chaos (it doesn’t matter whether you do or don’t). Chaos exists in nature. You impose calculated chaos at a decisive point to create a new equilibrium, a new order.

    But I just said that and you’re studiously avoiding understanding it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  167. Only the weakest, least successful people want chaos.

    The insane, too.

    Dave (1bb933)

  168. You impose calculated chaos at a decisive point to create a new equilibrium, a new order.

    That sounds SO much like the BS word-salad Beria tried to smoke his comrades with in The Death Of Stalin.

    Pretty funny.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  169. Buzz phrases like “chaos well-led”, “calculated chaos”, etc are sophistic pabulum peddled to the weak-minded and credulous.

    Dave (1bb933)

  170. You impose orange on meatloaf with ketchup at a decisive point to create a new mom, a new baseball a new apple pie, comrades.

    nk (1d9030)

  171. I agree that, in battle, the best commanders are those who can overcome or use chaos. But that doesn’t mean chaos can be a path to a better order instead of stable societies. That is what you are saying with “Chaos, well lead, reorganizes order” when, in successful societies, chaos is an inconvenient interval between periods of order. In failing societies, chaos is a constant.

    DRJ (15874d)

  172. Well, that didn’t take long, anyway, before Stefan Molyneux and Richard B. Spencer seeped through Christoph’s latest coat of face paint.

    nk (1d9030)

  173. That’s where he got the chaos nonsense from and those guys got it from Hitler.

    nk (1d9030)

  174. Cell Phones, Cancer, and Coronavirus: Tucker Carlson Spreads Conspiracy Theories
    https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/02/20/cell-phones-cancer-and-coronavirus-tucker-carlson-spreads-conspiracy-theories-14584

    Well, that puts him right in with that clown in the Oval Office!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  175. Now we just need to hear about how Scott Adams endorses the idea…

    Dave (1bb933)

  176. @131

    Try Footnote 140 in Volume I. Mueller did say that.

    Oh, he says it in a FOOTNOTE. Haha. HEre’s what Mueller writes:

    The GRU released through dcleaks.comthousands of documents, including personal identifying and financial information, internal correspondence related to the Clinton Campaign and prior political jobs, and fundraising files and information

    So where’s the bit about the Republicans? Well here’s the footnote that goes with that sentence:

    See, e.g., Internet Archive, “https://dcleaks.com/” (archive date Nov.Personal Privacy
    10, 2016). Additionally, DCLeaks released documents relating to , emails belonging
    to , and emails from 2015 relating to Republican Party employees (under the portfolio name
    “The United States Republican Party”). “The United States Republican Party” portfolio contained
    approximately 300 emails from a variety of GOP members, PACs, campaigns, state parties, and businesses dated between May and October 2015. According to open-source reporting, these victims shared the same Tennessee-based web-hosting company, called Smartech Corporation. William Bastone, RNC E-Mail Was,In Fact, Hacked By Russians, The Smoking Gun (Dec. 13, 2016).

    Oh, how could anyone miss that? LOL. notice the source. “THE SMOKING GUN”. Yes that’s right the multi-million dollar Mueller investigation with “40 FBI agents” is quoting a for-profit internet website!

    rcocean (1a839e) — 2/21/2020 @ 1:44 pm

    The other interesting thing that is getting lost in this shuffle is that Mueller team’s pre-trial motions in the Concord case, where they were surprised when Concord’s attorneys showed up in court, that the Mueller team admitted they will not attempt to introduce any evidence that the Internet Research Agency (ie, the troll farm) was backed by the Russian government, in which the federal judge in this case ordered Mueller to stop saying that or face contempt of court. Here’s that court document:
    https://twitter.com/2222vj/status/1230997055553884160/photo/1

    The point I’m trying to drive here is that there’s a lot of confirmation bias at work in these discussions. Folks are going to pinpoint certain aspects of the Mueller Report to substantiate their points ad nauseam.

    Which to me, that was the whole point of this Mueller Report.

    Personally, I have a lot of issues with the Mueller Report, but I can simultaneously argue that both:
    a) It’s not controversial to believe that Russian did/tried to interfere with our elections.
    b) and additionally believe that the Trump campaign did NOT conspire with Russia, for the sheer fact that the Mueller team was stacked with anti-Trump bias who couldn’t find any connections.
    c) and there there are very real concerns that the powers of the government were politically weaponized against political rivals.

    whembly (c30c83)

  177. operation chaos will take place in Milwaukee at the democrat pee wee convention

    mg (8cbc69)

  178. Isn’t it also possible the Trump campaign tried to conspire with the/some Russians but was unsuccessful, or we can’t prove it because we can’t get sufficient evidence from Russian or Trump conspirators?

    DRJ (15874d)

  179. operation chaos will take place in Milwaukee at the democrat pee wee convention

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin? That would make it “Operation Cheese”, mg. Cheese, not chaos.

    nk (1d9030)

  180. @179

    Isn’t it also possible the Trump campaign tried to conspire with the/some Russians but was unsuccessful, or we can’t prove it because we can’t get sufficient evidence from Russian or Trump conspirators?

    DRJ (15874d) — 2/21/2020 @ 5:13 pm

    In light of the obvious anti-Trump special counsel team, I find it very hard to believe that if that were true, they couldn’t find strong evidence substantiating that.

    Additionally, we *NOW* know that the FBI knew that the Dossier was junk in Jan 2017, yet still proceeded with the investigations (FISA renewal and eventual special counsel investigation). The low, low predication bar allowed these investigations to be open, but the real issue is that the DOJ leadership failed to conduct good-faith oversight, such that warranted IG/prosecuturail investigations.

    whembly (c30c83)

  181. The entire dossier was “junk”?

    DRJ (15874d)

  182. And I assume Trump cooperated fully, as did the Russians.

    DRJ (15874d)

  183. What we have here … is a failure to exonerate. A failure to exonerate.

    nk (1d9030)

  184. Pardon?

    Dustin (0197f6)

  185. Wish you’d stop being so good to me, Mr. President.

    nk (1d9030)

  186. given the Russians helped Trump win in 2016 what has he actually done for their benefit as president?

    kaf (0363f1)

  187. Weakened NATO, weakened China, gave them Syria and possibly Turkey, will give them Crimea with a phony-baloney “peace deal” that he twists Ukraine’s arm for … and that’s just in today’s news.

    nk (1d9030)

  188. Oh, how could anyone miss that?

    Ah, going back to ad hominem, ocean, which is how you conveniently avoid substance. The real substance, which you’re avoiding, is the pages and pages of evidence in the Mueller report of Putin’s extensive and unprecedented meddling.

    Paul Montagu (6aafc0)

  189. If Chaos can be confused with Cheese, there’s a case to be made that rcocean is a strange yet plausible phonetic spelling of Russian.

    urbanleftbehind (d3a98a)

  190. given the Russians helped Trump win in 2016 what has he actually done for their benefit as president?

    Been himself.

    Dave (1bb933)

  191. bread lined bolshevik burnee loves his patterico comrades. You comrades vote burnee and vote often. Peace out.

    mg (8cbc69)

  192. It used to be Reggie Jackson!

    mg (8cbc69)

  193. It was IG Horowitz that found nothing, apparently. Just read the report.

    I’ll take that to mean that Horowitz didn’t find what you wanted him to find, but the reality is that he didn’t find “nothing”.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  194. Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/22/2020 @ 7:05 am

    Right, Montagu. I’m constantly reminded of what the IG found, including someone who lied under oath who won’t be prosecuted because Rule of Law or something, because you bring it up all the time with the same level of indignation — like you do with the Mueller report.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  195. Good news:

    Roger Stone’s lawyers are going after corrupt Amy Berman Jackson, imploring her to recuse herself for praising the “integrity” the jurors, thus demonstrating Jackson’s bias in a matter that’s before the court (a request for a new trial because of the lack of integrity of at least one of the jurors).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  196. It appears that late yesterday Stone’s defense filed a motion to have Judge Jackson rempved from the case. They seized on one word out of hundreds in her sentencing record; she said the jury had acted with “integrity”.

    The defense claims that this means Jackson cannot be objective WRT their motion for new trial.

    Two things…

    1. judges tend to be defensive of their juries and visa versa

    2. I’d bet that Jackson would love to be removed from this case at this point

    Anybody who could call Jackson “corrupt” would compare Duh Donald to Patton. They’d have to be THAT delusional.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  197. Hail Mary pass. And unethical as Roger Stone.

    But wait, there’s more! If these shysters still had a peremptory left (as I read somewhere that they had three left) and still kept the juror after the court turned down their objection, then they should be feeling a wee bit desperate for themselves as well as for their client.

    nk (1d9030)

  198. I’m constantly reminded of what the IG found, including someone who lied under oath who won’t be prosecuted because Rule of Law or something, because you bring it up all the time with the same level of indignation — like you do with the Mueller report.

    You don’t have to be angry and grudgy about Horowitz, Munroe, all you need is a basic understanding of the difference between “lack of candor” and perjury. Sadly, the hyperpartisan lenses you see through won’t allow you.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  199. Politically, advocating for chaos is the equivalent of yelling “Charge!” to your political group:

    The circulation of hostile political rumors (including but not limited to false news and conspiracy theories) has gained prominence in public debates across advanced democracies. Here, we provide the first comprehensive assessment of the psychological syndrome that elicits motivations to share hostile political rumors among citizens of democratic societies. Against the notion that sharing occurs to help one mainstream political actor in the increasingly polarized electoral competition against other mainstream actors, we demonstrate that sharing motivations are associated with ‘chaotic’ motivations to “burn down” the entire established democratic ‘cosmos’. We show that this extreme discontent is associated with motivations to share hostile political rumors, not because such rumors are viewed to be true but because they are believed to mobilize the audience against disliked elites. We introduce an individual difference measure, the “Need for Chaos”, to measure these motivations and illuminate their social causes, linked to frustrated status-seeking. Finally, we show that chaotic motivations are surprisingly widespread within advanced democracies, having some hold in up to 40 percent of the American national population.

    Full text here.

    Thus, the only “organizing” that comes from politicized chaos is to rally and bond the group: “Accordingly, intergroup conflict elicits motivations for within-group cohesion and experimental studies has demonstrated how intergroup conflict increase group cooperation and efficiency.” So, MAOA, are you Christoph?

    DRJ (15874d)

  200. Chaos theory is about very slight changes in initial variables produce very big changes in eventual results. In other words, you can’t control what happens y varying initial inputs. This first came up in weather prediction, where it is known as the “Butterfly Effect” It also is used in talking about ecology – level of fish and predators in a pond.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)


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