Patterico's Pontifications

2/6/2020

Trump vs. Bill Clinton on How to Behave After Being Acquitted

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:48 am



Bill Clinton in his first statement after being acquitted by the Senate in his impeachment trial:

Quote:

I want to say to the American people how profoundly sorry I am for what I said and did to trigger these events, and the great burden they have imposed on the Congress and on the American people.

Donald Trump in his first statement after being acquitted by the Senate in his impeachment trial:

Washington Examiner:

Later, after former American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks gave an address wherein he implored attendees to forgo contempt for their opponents, the president took the opportunity to deliver a decidedly different message.

“Arthur,” Trump smiled, “I don’t know if I agree with you.”

Quote:

As everybody knows, my family, our great country, and your president have been put through a terrible ordeal by some very dishonest and corrupt people. They have done everything possible to destroy us and by so doing, very badly hurt our nation. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they put themselves far ahead of our great country.

. . . .

I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong. Nor do I like people who say, “I pray for you,” when they know that that’s not so. So many people have been hurt and we can’t let that go on. And I’ll be discussing that a little bit later at the White House.

His spokesperson has given a little preview of what he’ll be saying at thw White House: namely, people should pay:

The humility just jumps out at you, doesn’t it?

[Editor’s Note: We will no longer be cross-posting posts at The Jury Talks Back.]

210 Responses to “Trump vs. Bill Clinton on How to Behave After Being Acquitted”

  1. Funny how those who have committed a crime feel compelled to show remorse, whereas those who haven’t don’t.

    So weird.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  2. Trump is right, Munroe is right. So much rightness going on this morning!

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  3. Bill Clinton is a politician … PDT is not.

    Plus what Munroe said !!

    bendover2 (076acf)

  4. Funny how those who have committed a crime feel compelled to show remorse, whereas those who haven’t don’t.

    So weird.

    To whom is the one who committed a crime? All things Trump has done, as president and before are legal? Why are so many of his campaign folks in jail, why is he an unindicted co-conspirator with Cohen, only not being prosecuted for the multiple felonies specifically because he’s president.

    Also, for the same reason, Clinton also not prosecuted. So it’s a false narrative on its face.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (92fb27)

  5. The nastiness of Trump gets full expression at the national prayer breakfast.

    It’s just who he is…

    But the trolls insist otherwise.

    Surprise!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  6. The nastiness of Trump gets full expression at the national prayer breakfast.

    It’s just who he is…

    But the trolls insist otherwise.

    Surprise!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:06 am

    It’s pretty simple, Ragspierre, as noted in another thread a moment ago by commentator whembly (playing off of a comment by yours truly):

    As you probably know, it’s a famous quote by Lincoln about the somewhat boorish Grant: “I can’t spare this man. He fights.”
    Same logic goes for Trump, despite his imperfections.

    Make America Ordered Again (f28c9c) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:45 pm

    I think this is one of those why Trump won.

    I don’t think I’m being too presumptuous in that all of us wished Trump has a better filter between his brain and his mouth. But he *is* a counter-puncher, and his supporters appreciate that.

    Actually, now that I think about it, it’s probably the only was why he took off during the primary (and also the free media coverage thinking Trump would be the weakest opponent for Hillary). Before Trump, most GOP presidential candidates would just take the crap sitting down. The only other person I think who could fight back, with a filter, would be Cruz or Rubio. Alas… it wasn’t meant to be.

    We’re tired of GOP politicians who lie back and take it.

    That, plus the Democrats have abandoned all civility and are literally accusing the President of being a Russian stooge/asset/etc.

    Grow a spine, man. At some point the GOP is likely to need a literal war leader again, and against the same damn Party.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  7. Trump is everybody’s nasty mother-in-law.

    nk (1d9030)

  8. We’re tired of GOP politicians who lie back and take it.

    I’m tired of lying liars who lie, both Duh Donald and cowards like you who enable his terrible conduct.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  9. Ah yes, Trump should just RISE ABOVE IT. Well, why don’t the never-trumpers and D’s RISE ABOVE it?
    Funny they never do.

    We’ve never had a bigger more embarrassingly partisan shampeachment – ever. Clinton committed crimes, crimes that were uncovered by the Special Prosecutor and HAD to be addressed. Trump did nothing criminal, and nothing that was a high crime. Most Americans don’t care that Trump delayed aid to the Ukraine. They aren’t Ukrainians.

    It was a rushed partisan shamimpeachment. No Republican Congressman voted for it. 190 R’s and some D’s voted against it. Even Pelosi thought it was a clown show, that’s why she delayed sending the impeachment articles for a whole month.

    When the D’s start treating Trump like the President of the USA, instead of someone who stole THEIR Presidency, then Trump should return the favor. Being Nice to the D’s gets you nowhere. It just encourages them to be even more abusive. Ask Mittens.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  10. Bill Clinton looked at the practical cosequences of an “admission” – he would confess to anything that didn’t have any; Trump can’t put himself n the wrong in any way.

    Clinton was vry vagie as to what he confessed to. It could be read different waya.

    …how profoundly sorry I am for what I said and did to trigger these events.

    Now what exactly is he admitting to?

    It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

    The editor of the Arkansas Democrat Gazette didn’t call him Slick Willie for nothing.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  11. I think I counted … four … of the lip-biting pauses … in Clinton’s speech. Bill is in that group of pathological liars for whom their entire lives are just coats they wear. Of course, he gave a remorseful speech. It’s exactly what the polling data indicated was required.

    frosty (f27e97)

  12. The D’s are partisan hacks and have been for a long time. Every single D Senator voted to acquit Clinton. Not one, thought obstruction of justice and perjury was worthy of removal. This time every single D senator voted Trump guilty on both counts.

    They are simply Hacks. And the Democrats cannot be trusted with power, since they will use without any regard for decency, tradition, or honor.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  13. Donald Trump will be holding a press conference at noon – to be broadcast live by most major networks.

    Available here in any case:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/live

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  14. Bill Kristol – Democrat – is now comparing Romney to Frederick Douglas. Its amazing how close we came to these dishonest clowns – Romney and kristol – being in the white house. Because Kristol would’ve wormed his way into a Romney administration, since he’s always been willing to PRETEND to be anything that gives him power to push his Neo-con agenda. That’s why he hates Trump so much. Trump ran on no more Middle East wars.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  15. Big annoucement. I wonder if Trump will decide not to seek re-election.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  16. the Democrats cannot be trusted with power, since they will use without any regard for decency, tradition, or honor.

    It’s not that – it’s that there may be nothing to stop them from passing into law, some, if not all, of the stupid ideas that are on the table if they have the presidency and majorities in both houses of Congress.

    This happens also on the state level.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  17. 15. Are you kidding me? He’ll seek re-election and probably win it (without my vote).

    Gryph (08c844)

  18. There are two things I’ve never heard Trump say: An actual prayer, and that Christ is his personal Lord and Savior. I’m not seeing how any of this from Trump will help the GOP or the Christian faith.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  19. 18. It won’t. But I’ve always thought it’s a safe assumption that whatever a politician says at a prayer breakfast is just smoke blowing up someone’s ass.

    Gryph (08c844)

  20. Trump is as much a Christian as Stormy Daniels is a Carmelite nun.

    nk (1d9030)

  21. BTW, near end of the video of Trump at the prayer breakfast, you could see Pelosi at the far right, looking like she was chewing glass, and thinking about gridlock and subpoenas.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  22. 21. Gridlock in Congress right about now would be very healthy.

    Gryph (08c844)

  23. [Editor’s Note: We will no longer be cross-posting posts at The Jury Talks Back.]

    What was the purpose of that?

    Mattsky (55d339)

  24. There are two things I’ve never heard Trump say …

    Other things Trump never says: “I’m sorry.” “I was wrong.” “I made a mistake.” “I regret what I did.”
    Trump apologists are blind to the obvious fact that Trump believes himself intrinsically above any error or wrongdoing at all — while he constantly accuses others of corruption, dishonesty, nastiness, incompetence, etc., and claims that other people are doing wrong knowingly and deliberately.

    Trump defenders are blind to how he clearly conflates the good of the country with what’s good for Donald Trump. They refuse to see all the unmistakable signs of a deep narcissistic sociopathy.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  25. Dogs love the master who feeds them scraps from the dinner table, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Trump defenders like to whine that other people say mean things about them. But when they reflexively defend every bit of Trump’s horribleness and hold him to be better than all his critics, they have not earned respect.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  27. Trump:

    I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong.

    He means Mitt Romney. The Wall Street Journal editorial, which took issue with him, said “…we take his word that he voted his conscience. His explanation for his vote is another story.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-madison-1-nancy-pelosi-0-11580948657

    The Utah Senator set up the straw man that the President’s lawyers said an impeachable act must also be a criminal offense. [That was not a straw man. That was one f the defenses ffered by the president’s lawyer, although not the only one – and Mitt Romney said it wasn’t the only one. The problem was that Mitt Romney limited himself to the defenses made by the respondent’s lawyers – but an impartial judge must do more than that] But Mr. Romney knows that isn’t the proper standard that other Senators used to judge impeachable conduct. [He didn’t say it was] He also claimed Mr. Trump “withheld vital military funds” from Ukraine, when the President merely delayed it [This business of withholding vitally needed military funds came from Adam Schiff, and wasn’t true – it wasn’t true that it was vitally needed becase this was all for the next year and more. I guess Mitt Romney was brainwashed.] and no investigation of the Bidens was ever undertaken.

    “Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine,” Mr. Romney said on the Senate floor. But no election was corrupted, [if it was corrupted, it was the Streisand effect and Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff did that] and no national security interests were jeopardized because other Senators and advisers persuaded Mr. Trump to release military aid. [and that that would happen, was virtually inevitable. It would be different if military aid to Ukraine had barely passed Congress]

    Trump again:

    Nor do I like people who say, “I pray for you,” when they know that that’s not so.

    He means Nancy Pelosi. He said nobody believes her when she said she was proceeding with great reluctance and he wrote to her in September saying he didn;t believe she was praying for him, except maybe in a negative way.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  28. When people praise Trump because he “fights back,” it might mean they aspire to have the same level of self-centered vindictiveness.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  29. So many people have been hurt and we can’t let that go on. And I’ll be discussing that a little bit later at the White House.

    So what is he going to propose?

    It would be good if he proposed a carefully selected (a big question is who to put on it) presidental commission to determine the truth of the various allegations against people in both parties but he’s more likely to propose they onvestigate Joe Biden.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  30. Breaking: The doctor in Wuhan who was the whistleblower in China about the corona virus has died of the disease. I have to wonder if the government wanted him to.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  31. I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong.

    Do you seriously see nothing unfitting about that statement coming from the mouth of Donald Trump? You don’t think he misuses faith? You don’t think he has a bizarre and twisted notion of who does wrong deliberately (i.e. anyone who opposes him) vs. who never does wrong (himself)?

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  32. It would be nice if he admitted that Russian disinformation made its way into his White House and affected some decisions.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  33. It’s astounding that anyone can think that Donald Trump has the moral capacity to discern what is hypocritical in others and what isn’t, or that his moral judgment ever goes much beyond “did it help me or hurt me?”

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  34. “The humility just jumps out at you, doesn’t it?”

    Can’t really tell. Too distracted by all that #NeverTrump humility.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  35. Do you seriously see nothing unfitting about that statement coming from the mouth of Donald Trump?

    It’s enormously presumptuous, even f there were reasons to think that.

    You don’t think he misuses faith?

    Trump doesn’t use faith at all ad he probably generally doesn;t believe anyboody who cites that as a reason.

    You don’t think he has a bizarre and twisted notion of who does wrong deliberately (i.e. anyone who opposes him) vs. who never does wrong (himself)?

    He’s taking it onto himself, and he knows he makes blunders at least.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  36. #32 –Straw man.
    It would be nice if we had a president who has the mental capacity to acknowledge that he is not always right and that not everything he does is ethically perfect by definition.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  37. Trump’s response is exactly what I thought it would be. It was predictable. What is concerning is this statement by press secretary Stephani Grisham:

    “I think he’s gonna also talk about how just horribly he was treated and that maybe people should pay for that.”

    Exactly, what does Trump have in mind, and who, other than Romney, will be his target?

    What a humble and chastised president, or just a savvy president doesn’t do, is make veiled threats or any other kind of threat against those who held them accountable for their screwups. Not even the slimy Clinton did that. He wasn’t humbled either, but he was at least smart enough to say what people wanted to hear (and needed to hear to be able to move on), whether he meant it or not.

    Trump supporters will likely cheer on his response: Yes! This is the fighter we elected!

    Dana (aaddb1)

  38. 3 bendover2 (076acf) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:03 am

    Bill Clinton is a politician … PDT is not.

    On the face of it you have it right, but I think Trump has effective political instincts. I think Clinton did what he did because it would help him politically and I think Trump’s approach will help HIM politically. Maybe it is dumb luck that his style results in effectiveness or maybe he knows what he is doing. Haters will opt for option A, lovers for option B. Neither side will have sufficient facts to prove either way.

    Trump’s approach will fire up his base and will tick off his haters. The question is, what will the net result be for his re-election? Well IANAPA (Policial Analyst), so I don’t know for sure, but from the responses, I think he is making the right choice if the goal is to win re-election.

    I must say, I read Patterico regularly for over 10 years. It was never on my shortcuts, but I linked through LI all the time when the posts sounded interesting, and I was rarely disappointed. Now it is a one note blog and a sour one at that. I noticed I had not read for several years and had heard others dis it which kept me away. But I realized I was letting others decide FOR me what the truth was, so I purposely read everything for the last few weeks just to see for myself. Of course I should also admin that I picked a bad time to stop smok…er… start reading the blog. However, I must say, I am hearing a lot of noise that sounds like duck quacking.

    I don’t care that people here hate Trump, but I am sad to see that this is all this blog appears to be about any more. Praising Clinton as a way to dis Trump? That is a shame. Defending Pelosi as a way to dis Trump, a shame as well. It would be nice to see just a little more balance. In previous years, a post about Pelosi’s theatrics about ripping up the SOTU would focus on her childish behavior, not as just another avenue to dis Trump. In years past you would have put up a post about how Pelosi saying every word in Trumps speech was a lie and call her out an the disrespect she is showing to the Tuskegee Airman or other people that Trump highlighted. In other words you would have fisked Pelosi, now you just excuse her rant because of Trump.

    Go back to calling all spades spades and not so much excusing some spades because trump is a bigger spade.

    Just the opinion of a once regular consumer of Patterico.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  39. “The White House lawyers for a long time dug in on the argument that there is no quid pro,” Cruz recalled, noting that given disputed testimony and the White House chief of staff’s own acknowledgment of a quid pro quo, it was a tenuous argument to make from the start. Cruz gave his blunt assessment to the White House team.

    “Out of 100 senators, zero believe you on the argument there is no quid pro quo,” Cruz said he told the defense counsel. “Stop making it.”

    Of course, to this day The Liar In Chief will insist with stompy-foot that “it was a perfect call”.

    And the trolls here will just suck it up.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  40. Trump supporters will likely cheer on his response: Yes! This is the fighter we elected!

    Word.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  41. When polls showed at least half the country wanting Trump to be removed from office, isn’t it a mite unconvincing when he asserts that the whole impeachment process was an attack on “our country”?

    Why is it so difficult for some people to recognize a solipsistic moral code when Trump makes it so obvious?
    As also when he proudly told the public that he had wanted to keep a bad public employee who was mean to others because she said GREAT things about him. He really thought that was the most important qualification.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  42. h

    e knows he makes blunders at least.

    For instance? When does he not say it was really someone else’s fault?

    When has he ever shown any awareness that something he does for his own benefit might conceivably be ethically wrong?

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  43. I hope Trump’s revenge on Romney isn’t as brutal as the last time, when he endorsed him for Senator.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  44. Just the opinion of a once regular consumer of Patterico.
    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:14 am

    Our host is not a professional blogger, so he picks his battles.

    He’s providing a product to a market already filled with commentary about some of the things and people you mention.

    I appreciate the space.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  45. Bill Clinton is a politician … PDT is not.

    Trump literally ran for president in 2000, which makes him a politician by default. That he won in 2016 makes him a good politician. That he has so many adoring loyalists naively believing that he’s not a politician makes him an excellent politician.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  46. The President is speaking now. He called what was done to him since he was elected evil. I’m thrilled he called it like it is.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  47. He looks dashing in his black and pink tie. I’m being a little tongue-in-cheek there, although it’s something I’d wear, as I’m generally not going for the full power look.

    P.S. I am, often, a critic of Trump, mostly from the right. However, I need to learn to temper my criticism because he has been under such unprecedented corrupt political pressure and has had to fight that off. I don’t think he would have been so bad at advancing my goals if he hadn’t been (although I’m sure there are other factors and Trump and I don’t see eye-to-eye on everything).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  48. The President is speaking now. He called what was done to him since he was elected evil. I’m thrilled he called it like it is.

    But you’re just a troll and you don’t know evil from a cypress stump.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  49. Now the President has said “bullshit.”

    Word!

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  50. Trump speaking, reviewing history and sounding philosophical and somewhat sad. ‘The FISA courts should be ashamed of themselves” in a sad voice.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  51. The President misspoke and/or made an inaccurate point (so far as I know) about, “the FISA Courts should be ashamed of themselves.”

    They were lied to by the FBI. Perhaps the President has knowledge that they were being complicit in being lied to? It’s certainly possible that they let themselves become a rubber stamp.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  52. PDT? I know it used to stand for portable data terminal. Does it now stand for Public Display of Tantrum?

    nk (1d9030)

  53. Well, the question is whether the President is going to merely vent his spleen, or demand stuff. If he vents or takes a victory lap — it may be tacky — but no real harm.

    Ooooooh…he uses the bs word in a public forum. That big bad man.

    And now we whine about “tremendous corruption”. Dirty cops. Moan moan moan about Russia. Bad and evil people are on the other side.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  54. Yes Trump a political genius. In the vein of Reagan, Clinton and Obama but much more talented. When he is talking about his favorite subject, himself — there is no one more electrifying or energized. He has one goal and purpose in common with his fans: complete and total adulation of Trump. In this they are united.

    JRH (52aed3)

  55. The court could be ashamed of not being more skeptical. But this may bis assuming that people know more than they do.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  56. #49

    Trump speaking, reviewing history and sounding philosophical and somewhat sad.

    I’m sorry — this is the philosophy of a toddler in high dudgeon about the mean stuff that always seems to happen to him.

    Ah, Adam Schiff is corrupt…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  57. After sadly criticizing Dem candidates for president who came back to the Senare, he praises some Republicans. Overall, he sounds a bit sad.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  58. Yet he’s still mixing in humor.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  59. Appalled (1a17de) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:37 am

    Ah, Adam Schiff is corrupt…

    As they say, that word (corrupt) doesn’t mean what Trump thinks it means.

    He said Schiff lied about what was in the transcript, which is true, and said he was someone who wanted to be a screenwriter who unfortunately went into politics.,

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  60. Overall, he sounds a bit sad.

    You know how to make a pathological narcissist sad?

    Hold up a mirror.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  61. And now the riff on the Democrats and how horrible their candidates are…Bragging he was mean at the National Prayer Breakfast…

    Trump does have some charm — the riff on both Mitch and Chuck Grassley only seem to ramble but get to the intended punch lines…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  62. Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:19 am

    Maybe we can retire this particular talking point now that he’s admitted he has done some things wrong.

    frosty (f27e97)

  63. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they put themselves far ahead of our great country.

    This is outrageous coming from Trump, who believes that he himself could never knowingly do wrong because nothing he does could ever be ethically wrong.

    He has always puts himself first, and he does it routinely in the way he speaks (and literally pushing aside world leaders he considers inferior to himself). But in his warped mind, it is always right to do what’s in his own interest.

    Trump has always approached life with an “I win/you lose” attitude. As long as he comes out on top, nothing else matters. Somehow he persuaded lots of people that he’s now doing it all for patriotic reasons, but he did not suddenly change into a much better person when he ran for president.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  64. “I’m sorry — this is the philosophy of a toddler in high dudgeon about the mean stuff that always seems to happen to him.”
    Appalled (1a17de) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:37 am

    Next, he’ll refuse to accept election results or dramatically rip up a speech.

    Munroe (861db5)

  65. Next, he’ll refuse to accept election results or dramatically rip up a speech.

    no, no, no, that’s not mr. president trump’s style

    his style is to seduce a hooker by telling her she reminds him of his daughter

    subtle

    nk (1d9030)

  66. If he sticks with the shout outs of the Senators, this will be OK. The Mike Lee shout out is almost normal by political standards. Funny and charming.

    Oh well…on to the Democrats

    And now Adam and Nancy are “horrible people”. Doubts Nancy prays at all (sweet). “They are as vicious as Hell”.

    Now back to the very good call. Mr. President, please shut up, I am sure Cocaine Mitch is thinking…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  67. Next, he’ll refuse to accept election results or dramatically rip up a speech.

    no, no, no, that’s not mr. president trump’s style

    his style is to seduce a hooker by telling her she reminds him of his daughter

    subtle

    Never Trumpers can’t help but take the high ground.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  68. Romney is the same guy that said he was more pro-abortion than Teddy “Chappaquiddick” Kennedy when he ran against him in Massachusetts, right? What does his faith say about that?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  69. Never Trumpers can’t help but take the high ground.

    They fight!

    nk (1d9030)

  70. Ha ha. He used the words “illegal aliens.” Democrats hate when he does that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  71. Trumpsters are always saying it’s great that he doesn’t just “lie down and take it.” Like he’s a superhero or something. But his fight-back is pretty much always for his own ego, not for the benefit of others. It’s inconceivable that he would put himself at risk to help someone in a crisis.
    He doesn’t even have the courage to admit that he might sometimes be wrong.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  72. Ragspierre,

    you just showed up under this name and keep insulting people and calling them trolls and other names. So either you’ve changed your name and are a previous poster, or you disregard the rules of the blog and attack others in bad faith and disrespect but expect it to be ignored because you see the blog currently allows for anti-Trump remarks.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  73. It’s a perfect call. (Again). And it’s “Total Acquittal”

    There is a decent point in there about all the time that has been wasted on this impeachment, and the “genius” of the other side, and think if put that energy in infrastructure and prescription drug costs. But it’s back to the self-pity and shout outs.

    Maybe I breathe easier, because he is not announcing some gonzo anti-Constitutional nonsense. That was what I was afraid of, to be honest. And maybe showman Trump meant me to think that so I would tune in.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  74. I dunno how 2020 elections would shake out…

    But, this had me thinking about what would a Trump/GOP victory would look like.

    I think the Democrats taking the House in 2018 is the defining moment for Trump and the GOP party.

    Hear me out…

    Between 2016 and 2018, the GOP party wasn’t all that unified behind Trump…where the GOPers were for the most part, timid in the face of media/democrats outrage over the 2016 election. Remember, a lot of GOP seats were given up due to retirements as well.

    Enter the summer of 2018 of the Kavanaugh and Convington ordeal. To me, that’s the fulcrum point that galvanized Trump supporters and even the Trump-curious voters to fully realize and engage the political process against the media/Democratic inanity.

    Then, democrats took the House in fall 2019 and went berzerk.

    The near rejection of the Democrat’s impeachment saga substantiate the idea that we’re now in a partisan political war of ideologies that transcends whomever is in office.

    I’m curious how that’ll manifest in the 2020 elections, with a hope now that the GOP can overtake the House and that the extreme elements of the Democratic party get relegated back to an obscure wing.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  75. NJRob (4d595c)

    I identify trolls when I see them. So sue me.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  76. I identify trolls when I see them. So sue me.

    Your identification is self-serving (as an ad hominem)Ragspierre, and, worse, simply dishonest: you call people who disagree with you “trolls,” irrespective of the points they make (and probably because of them).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  77. #67 — Donald Trump was pro-abortion before he decided that evangelicals would be his ticket to glory. He was for single-payer health care before he was against it and then for it and then … Trump called Romney’s immigration plan too “mean” to illegals before he decided to campaign on Build a Wall!!!

    Are shifting standards a bad thing except when we’re talking about Trump?

    I’ve been critical of Romney on various points, but the idea that he’s now a monster while Trump is a hero is an example of how low today’s GOP has sunk.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  78. Your identification is self-serving (as an ad hominem)Ragspierre, and, worse, simply dishonest: you call people who disagree with you “trolls,” irrespective of the points they make (and probably because of them).

    That’s a set of lies. There are several people here who disagree with me AND are not trolls.

    You are. Plus, you lie…a lot.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  79. Trump and Romney have similar evolutions on abortion, NJRob. Both proclaimed they were pro-choice (and gave money to support pro-choice causes) when they lived in blue states, and both later claimed they are really pro-life.

    DRJ (15874d)

  80. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:42 am

    You know how to make a pathological narcissist sad?

    Hold up a mirror.

    You know how to make a troll mad? Hold up a mirror.

    frosty (f27e97)

  81. Make America Ordered Again, have you commented as cfbleachers in the past?

    DRJ (15874d)

  82. Trump has always approached life with an “I win/you lose” attitude. As long as he comes out on top, nothing else matters. Somehow he persuaded lots of people that he’s now doing it all for patriotic reasons, but he did not suddenly change into a much better person when he ran for president.

    Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:45 am

    I agree. Well said.

    DRJ (15874d)

  83. Plus he likes getting even, which is revenge. That is not Christian.

    DRJ (15874d)

  84. I’ve been critical of Romney on various points, but the idea that he’s now a monster

    Heh…Trying to picture a Monster Mittens. No, monster for him would at least come with a modicum of respect. Mittens is no monster. He’s quite a few other things, though.

    PTw (894877)

  85. Plus he likes getting even, which is revenge. That is not Christian.

    Unlike insulting people. Not totally up on my Bible as I should be. Tell me what does it say about belittling people with whom you disagree?

    PTw (894877)

  86. Funny how Romney is dinged for being pro-choice at one time, but Trump is not.
    Funny how Romney is dinged for Romneycare, but Trump is not castigated for supporting universal healthcare when he was a Reform Party candidate.
    Funny how Romney is accused of being a Democrat (despite never being one) yet Trump was a registered Democrat for a dozen years.
    Funny how in 2008, Romney’s “sin” was not being conservative enough to beat McCain, but it’s all forgotten by adoring Trump loyalists that this president was a Democrat in 2008 who said that Hillary would “make a good president”.
    Bottom line, Romney was not that good of a politician when he ran for president, and he lost to a more charismatic incumbent during an improving economy. Romney pulled his punches when he should’ve punched twice as hard, and he couldn’t convincingly say why he supported Romneycare but opposed Obamacare, and he picked an uninspiring Paul Ryan to be his running mate, and so forth. But this anger toward him is irrational, and it’s really too bad because Romney has proven executive skills and perhaps could’ve Made America Competent Again.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  87. Not totally up on my Bible as I should be. Tell me what does it say about belittling people with whom you disagree?

    That would depend. Seems as I recall that there’s a pretty high premium on telling the truth, along with knowing the truth.

    Or am I mistaken…???

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  88. Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:09 am

    but the idea that he’s now a monster

    I love the not so subtle lie.

    Are shifting standards a bad thing except when we’re talking about Trump?

    Not one but two.

    No one is calling Romney a monster but you can’t help yourself. He’s being held out as a paragon of principle and virtue, someone who Does The Right Thing (TM), by people who’ve criticized supporters of Trump for having double standards. The criticism writes itself.

    frosty (f27e97)

  89. DRJ,

    Romney is a politician. Trump was a businessman who played the game. Romney has always been what he is. I’m not saying Trump is honest. I’m saying Romney is dishonest. So claiming Romney’s vote is virtuous instead of just a political decision is disingenuous. Shielding his vote through God is as evil as when Pelosi claims her barbarism is supported by Christ.

    Hypocrites are what they are. So if you want to attack Trump for his lies, please be honest and do the same with the other liars.

    Now of course the difference between the two of them is that Trump enacts policies I want and moves the Overton Window in the right direction. Romney does neither. So I support Trump on a transactional basis.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  90. 66. BTW, it’s “take the high road”. Road, as in that thing you travel on. “Take the high ground” means to take the stronger and more easily defensible position in a fight. This is America, and if you want to have any measure of success interfering in our elections, you’ll need to learn to use English idioms properly. Ponial, tovarich?

    nk (1d9030)

  91. Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:31 am

    Those have been fairly consistent anti-Trump talking points for a while now. They aren’t getting the traction it sounds like you think they should. But they every time we have the Trump accomplishments subthread there’s always someone hitting each of those points.

    frosty (f27e97)

  92. NJRob (4d595c)

    Actually, Rob, Romnwy WAS the businessman and leader that Duh Donald only has pretended to be, and he did it without swimming in the sewer of New York City corruption.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  93. Those have been fairly consistent anti-Trump talking points for a while now.

    You can call them talking points if you want. I’ll call them facts.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  94. Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

    Yep.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  95. 76 Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:09 am

    Are shifting standards a bad thing except when we’re talking about Trump?

    I see “shifting standards” everywhere. Right here in this post people praising a Lia and serial abuser of women. As for Trump, as I have said before, he is no conservative. I expected him to govern as a lib. But the Dems made the mistake of demonizing him which drove him into the arms of conservatives and evangelicals, and now the enemy of his enemies are his friends. Just like it seems is true for some people in here.

    “Politics makes strange bedfellows.”
    -Charles Dudley Warner

    Wa St Blogger (db7376)

  96. Meanwhile,

    House Democrats to vote to take controversial California ‘gig economy’ regulations national

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/house-democrats-to-vote-to-take-controversial-california-gig-economy-regulations-national

    Yes, we definitely need to defeat Donald Trump and elect a Democrat, and Democratic Congress, so we can destroy jobs nationally, as they did in California.

    Policy matters. Until the Dems stop acting like crazed radicals, expect Trump’s support to remain solid.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  97. I love the not so subtle lie.

    Where is the lie? Matt Schlapp sent out an image manipulated to make Romney look really scary when he uninvited him to CPAC, and the Trumpsters piled on, raging against evil Mitt.

    A “Trump intellectual” awhile back painted Mitt as a cold, heartless ideologue while claiming that Trump is outstanding for “compassion” and represents the values of the saints who go live among the poor(!).

    It’s Alice in Wonderland transferred to GOP-land.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  98. In order to elevate Trump to hero status, his devotees had to trash virtually every conservative or Republican who came before him or ran against him, and the only way those people could redeem themselves in Trumpster eyes was to demonstrate uncritical subservience to Trump.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  99. Oh, and since we are taking local Democratic policies national, let’s do bail reform law like they have in NY. What could go wrong?

    Witness Scheduled To Testify Against Alleged MS-13 Members Found Murdered. NY Officials Question Whether New Bail Reforms Laws Were Involved.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/witness-scheduled-to-testify-against-alleged-ms-13-members-found-murdered-ny-officials-question-whether-new-bail-reforms-laws-were-involved

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  100. I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong

    But using the National Prayer Breakfast to launch a vindictive attack on people trying to fulfill their constitutional responsibility to hold the president accountable?
    Well, that is entirely righteous in Trumpster eyes.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  101. The reason that things are going round and round here is that one group sees politics as being downstream from culture and the other group thinks that politics is a tool to define culture.

    PTw (894877)

  102. 59. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:42 am

    You know how to make a pathological narcissist sad?

    He wasn’t so philosophical before.

    This speech – and it was more of a series of extended riffs along the same lines, was really for his supporters, man oof whom were n the room. It was a little like what someone says when the election returns come in.

    He almost didn’t say anything that he didn’t say before somewhere else. He dwelt somewhat long on Steve Scalese. and there he said again that most wives wold take it matter of factly if they heard that their husband might die. Many things were said before. He didn’t believe Nancy Pelosi prayed about him – except maybe against him but he didn’t believe that either I think he said. We can get the transcript.

    He alluded to Biden’s son picking up money in Ukraine (he said $3 million up front – don’t knoe what that’s about – and in China and he had heard in Romania.

    He talked about Strzok and Page – read the thing where one said that Hillary should really win the election 100 million to one and commented this was by people who were investigating Hillary. That bit was new (to me)

    He said the impeachment was partisan and they had gotten 52 1/2 votes in the Senate. The half vote was because of person who ran a failed presidential campaign.

    He praised two different lawyers as being like Perry Mason. He talked about elections. He said praised members of congress. He noted that Elise Stefanik had hada surge of cotributions after her defense of him in the House. He said he was doing better because of this – not that he’s want this way to improve poll standings. He said they would or could retake control of the House of Representatives as a result of this (and he may really believe it) He didn’t understand the significance of Mark Meadows retiring from Congress. He said he had no idea why he was doing that.- He said Meadows won by 40 points and hoped Meadows would select a successor who would win by 20 points.

    He said he didn’t want Ron DeSantis to run for Governor of Florida. Said he was at 3%. His opponent (in the primary) had money. But Santos wanted to. So he endorsed him. He won. His opponent said Trump;s endorsement hit him like nuclear bomb. He didn’t spend his money. which Trump conceded maybe made sense (a candidate can’t keep campaign money now although he can use it in other similar elections or pass it on to other candidates)

    He said they might win New Mexico in the presidential race and said that was a state that hadn’t been won (fact check: it was carried by George W. Bush in 2004, one of three states flipped between the year 2000 and 2004 – Iowa and New Mexico were carried by Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004, and New Hampshire was carried by Bush in 2004 and Kerry in 2004 – I said on another thread that Iowa and New Hampshire have become swing states because of all the attention presidential candidates pay to them and they are not at all typical any more)

    He said he ran for president and then expected to do things – but instead he ran – and got elected – and then ran and ran and ran.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  103. Trumpsters think Trump is very patriotic because he says “our great country,” and he literally hugged the flag.
    They forget how he said our country had become a laughingstock and was disrespected around the world, before he became president. And they’re completely unbothered by the gross disrespect he showed during the national anthem last weekend.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  104. The reason that things are going round and round here is that one group sees politics as being downstream from culture and the other group thinks that politics is a tool to define culture.

    And some of us believe that general scumbaggery is a political disqualifier, the party of the scumbag is not that important.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (92fb27)

  105. 98. Witness Scheduled To Testify Against Alleged MS-13 Members Found Murdered. NY Officials Question Whether New Bail Reforms Laws Were Involved

    I heard the defense made that his identity was not disclosed because of the new law. I don’t know the details. But they began doing things in line with the law before its effective date, and this is still an argumen against the principle.

    This even stops plea bargains. Prosecutors have 15 days to disclose witnesses and much more work to do but no extra money. So they would have to drop cases.

    One problem is that it is black letter law that bail is on; to ensure showing up in court aand preventive detention is illegal and it is in New York State. Of course judges were really taking that into account.

    The only thing they can do now is send someone to get a psychiatric evaluation or get the crime into federal court.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  106. @43 LoL – Good one.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  107. Bad ideas floating around the Democratic Party:

    No more fracking.

    No more plastic bags or plastic straws.

    Some kind of censorship of social media and more campaign regulation.

    Packing the Supreme Court *

    * to make the censorship possible

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  108. Things Trump left out of his speech:

    1. He made no mention of the fact that he ordered the military aid to Ukraine placed on hold, let alone give any reason for it.

    2. Made no mention of what subordinates told Ukraine, whether they were on the same page as he was on, or not.

    3. Made no mention of the supposed refusal to schedule a meeting with Zelensky. (there;s actally no sign that Trump even knew about that)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  109. Other than calling Mittens a “Pompous Ass” Trump has been remarkably mild in his attacks on Romney. usually he just ascribes Mitt’s vitriol to Losing in 2012 and wishes he’d take all that energy whining about Trump and use it to advance the R agenda.

    Today, he attacked Romney – not by name – for using Religion to justify his Guilty vote. And also wondered if being a “failed Presidential Candidate” makes you bitter. Again mild stuff. Here’s hoping Mittens will actually grow up and start doing something positive with his Senate seat instead of using it to “get back” at Trump.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  110. I was listening to T-rump’s mid-day remarks, and I kept seeing the Al Capone character from The Untouchables.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  111. One good thing, is no one cares about Ukrainian aid and what happened in the Summer of 2019. That boring subject is done.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  112. Trump says that the Mueller team ILLEGALLY deleted all emails and servers related to Peter Strotz and Lisa Page when the two left Mueller’s team. I’d love to know if that really was “illegal”. I assume its just Trump hyperbole.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  113. That boring subject is done.

    Only to the delusional. BOTH houses are going to do follow-on investigations.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  114. Trump says that the Mueller team ILLEGALLY deleted all emails and servers related to Peter Strotz and Lisa Page when the two left Mueller’s team. I’d love to know if that really was “illegal”. I assume its just Trump hyperbole.

    Yeah, it’s true he said that. But like all things Trump, the actual fact he was saying…is a lie.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (92fb27)

  115. One good thing, is no one cares about Ukrainian aid and what happened in the Summer of 2019. That boring subject is done.

    Indeed. Now we can ask why Trump has been withholding–for a year–$30 million worth of weapons purchases by Ukraine from the US. It makes one think that Trump actually wants Putin to win that war.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  116. @109 – That’s funny, I was listening to Trump on the radio and I kept hearing Joe Pesci. I kept waiting to hear somebody tell him to go get his shine box.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  117. I love the not so subtle lie.

    I love how Trump apologists act so very offended by “lies” that don’t flatter Trump, but aren’t at all offended by the thousands of lies that Trump has told since his election.

    The first rule of Trumpism is: Donald Trump should never be judged by the same standard as his critics. The only appropriate standard for judging Donald Trump is: “Let Trump be Trump!”

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  118. Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:17 am

    Where is the lie?

    It’s, at best, an exaggeration used to paint any criticism of Romney as extremist, e.g. this is coming from people who call Romney a monster (shocked face if in person and some sort of !?! if you’re typing it). That’s why it’s a subtle lie as opposed to something more direct. It’s one of those where you can try one of the clever “you mad bro?” replies if anyone really calls you out on it. Finding one or two examples of “really scary” or “cold, heartless ideologue” is a poor cover.

    frosty (f27e97)

  119. Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 12:22 pm

    Criticizing you for lying has nothing to do with being offended or with Trump. You can try to switch this around but now you aren’t even denying that you lied. You’re just making an excuse for it.

    It seems that the first rule of NeverTrump is to declare with complete moral authority any criticism of NeverTrump off-limits because Trump.

    frosty (f27e97)

  120. Wa St Blogger:

    I don’t care that people here hate Trump, but I am sad to see that this is all this blog appears to be about any more. Praising Clinton as a way to dis Trump? That is a shame. Defending Pelosi as a way to dis Trump, a shame as well. It would be nice to see just a little more balance. In previous years, a post about Pelosi’s theatrics about ripping up the SOTU would focus on her childish behavior, not as just another avenue to dis Trump. In years past you would have put up a post about how Pelosi saying every word in Trumps speech was a lie and call her out an the disrespect she is showing to the Tuskegee Airman or other people that Trump highlighted. In other words you would have fisked Pelosi, now you just excuse her rant because of Trump. Go back to calling all spades spades and not so much excusing some spades because trump is a bigger spade.

    I wrote this post for folks like you:

    http://patterico.com/2020/01/24/public-service-announcement-2/

    I understand that you claim not to be upset by the fact that I don’t like Trump, so (you think) you are not the real target of my post. But here’s the thing: I don’t believe you. You don’t want blasting of both sides. I think you want your partisan itch scratched and you want me to keep my damn mouth shut about Trump.

    Why do I say that? Because you read a post in which I called Nancy Pelosi’s actions in tearing up the SoTU speech “snitty and petulant and weak” and it upset you because I called out Trump as well, for failing to shake her hand. You called that “defending Pelosi” and that I “excused her rant” which is patently false. You suggested that I am unwilling to call out both sides, ironically citing as an example a post in which I called out both sides — but you missed me calling out Pelosi because you were so upset that I didn’t leave Trump out of it.

    You don’t want someone who calls it like he sees it. You never did. You want someone who will cheer for Trump, or at the very least refrain from criticizing him. You are, therefore, at the wrong blog. There are plenty of sites out there who will offer you the mindless partisan sludge you crave. Puh-lenty. So do me a favor. No: do us *both* a favor. Stop trying to change me. If you don’t like the writing here, find a site that suits you better.

    Patterico (1d6a02)

  121. Colonel Klink (Ret) (92fb27) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:36 am

    And some of us believe that general scumbaggery is a political disqualifier, the party of the scumbag is not that important.

    I’m not seeing much of that. I’m seeing most people just pick which group of scumbags they like the best.

    frosty (f27e97)

  122. @109/@116. You both missed it.

    It was total,full-speed-ahead Queeg.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. The President is speaking now. He called what was done to him since he was elected evil. I’m thrilled he called it like it is.

    But you’re just a troll and you don’t know evil from a cypress stump.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:28 am

    Actually you are the troll. All I ever see you do is comment constantly calling others sock puppets and trying to insult them. You are a left wing troll. It’s pretty obvious

    Property rights (6e5e6e)

  124. 111. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/6/2020 @ 12:00 pm

    Trump says that the Mueller team ILLEGALLY deleted all emails and servers related to Peter Strotz and Lisa Page when the two left Mueller’s team.

    I thought Trump was saying that Strzok and Page had deleted it (earlier) I recall I thin it was recovered.

    Here’ s Polifact (admittedly it’s been called a politically biased fact checking site) It attempts to descrbe what they have and what they don’t. Doesn’t blame Strzok or Page because says the FBI record archiving system was in general defective.

    Note: They had used their FBI accounts for personal email, which they were not supposed to. But I suppose Strzok maybe didn’t want his wfe to see what he texted.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/dec/19/donald-trump/no-evidence-fbi-officials-texts-deliberately-erase

    First, a new report from the Justice Department’s internal watchdog suggests the roughly 19,000 messages slipped through the cracks due to technical glitches with the FBI’s data-collection tool on Samsung devices, not because Strzok and Page went around the system.

    Second, perhaps most importantly, while the messages were initially not captured, they have since been recovered. Trump’s claim gives the false impression the texts are still unaccounted….

    …The inspector general was unable to recover text messages Strzok and Page may have sent using iPhones they were given when they joined Mueller’s team. But a special counsel official who reviewed Strzok’s iPhone before it was reset found it contained no substantive messages.

    ….The inspector general discovered a five-month gap in the Strzok-Page communications, from mid-December 2016 through mid-May 2017.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  125. 110. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:58 am

    One good thing, is no one cares about Ukrainian aid and what happened in the Summer of 2019. That boring subject is done.

    he democrats are divided on wether or not to subpoena John Bolton.

    John Bolton would help establish why the aid was withheld. It should be a scandal. But might spoil the theory the impeachment used.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  126. “Note: They had used their FBI accounts for personal email, which they were not supposed to. But I suppose Strzok maybe didn’t want his wfe to see what he texted.”
    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:03 pm

    $40 buys you two burner phones at those smelly Walmarts, saves your jobs and a ton of embarrassment.

    These were supposed to be the ultra smart FBI folks going after moron Trump.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  127. “Pat isn’t really a ‘leftwinger’, he’s more an embittered anti-Trumper who’ll swing any stick, left or right, against Trump without a care for how strong it is or who hands it to him.“

    Still one of the best comments I’ve seen here. Schiff, Pelosi, Clinton, all serial dishonest scumbag people, but if it hurts trump you will act like they have authority or their opinions are 100% valid. It’s pretty sad.

    Property rights (6e5e6e)

  128. Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:16 pm

    Yea, everyone knows about those phones and it’s an obvious flag. Unless your spouse is completely oblivious they’re going to notice. My guess is they used their work phones on purpose to keep it away from the spouse. The spouse can’t see those messages because of top secret spy stuff. Technically that might be a violation of federal law by itself.

    frosty (f27e97)

  129. All I ever see you do is comment constantly calling others sock puppets and trying to insult them.

    Now, see, that is just strange.

    I have not used the term “sock puppets” in a coon’s age, and never here.

    Though I find your nom’d keyboard comical and ironic, given your support for Mr. Kelo of Atlantic City, and I think very little of your comments generally, I’ve never “called you a name” that I recall. Plus, you don’t know spit about my politics…which are likely WAY more conservative than you.

    So perhaps you should look harder, and use some other brain.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  130. PTw (894877) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:29 am

    Jesus said: You brood of vipers!

    Jesus insulted a lot of sinners. In fact, many, today, take many of Jesus’ words as a grave insult to them.

    felipe (023cc9)

  131. Transcript of Trump’s remarks with introductory commentary (Google doesn’t make transcripts easy to find. Somewhere this probably is without preliminary commentary)

    https://www.vox.com/2020/2/6/21126544/trump-speech-today-transcript-impeachment

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  132. Somehow he persuaded lots of people that he’s now doing it all for patriotic reasons, but he did not suddenly change into a much better person when he ran for president.

    Radegunda (5ab384) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:45 am

    That’s why Trump was awarded the Ellis Island Award, along with Mohammad Ali, and Rosa Parks

    iowan2 (1c4a14)

  133. @125 – Romney and 47 Democrat Senators just voted to remove Trump from Office because they believe he withheld aid. Nothing Bolton says, will change that. If Bolton says Trump never mentioned Biden, they will say Bolton only knows what Trump told him – and is only one man. If Bolton says Trump did it because of Biden, that will just confirm their opinion.

    And of course, the DNC-media will not change their minds that Trump is guilty. Bolton will change nothing

    rcocean (1a839e)

  134. Praising Clinton as a way to dis Trump? That is a shame. Defending Pelosi as a way to dis Trump, a shame as well.

    What is shameful about judging the actions of individuals by a standard other than “my team vs. the other team”?

    It is Trump’s own behavior that frequently earns disrespect, while his devotees keep telling themselves that people just invent excuses to dis him.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  135. #132 — Obama was awarded a Noble Peace Prize, and every Trump-defender will say it means nothing.

    Prize or no prize, I see no clear evidence that Trump turned into a better person upon getting the presidency.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  136. @124 thanks. I think this is what Trump is talking about:

    The inspector general was unable to recover text messages Strzok and Page may have sent using iPhones they were given when they joined Mueller’s team. But a special counsel official who reviewed Strzok’s iPhone before it was reset found it contained no substantive messages.

    This is what Trump thought was Illegal. Does appear to be that.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  137. @136 should say does NOT appear to be that.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  138. Bolton will change nothing

    Wrong.

    IF that were remotely true, Duh Donald would’ve insisted Bolton testify.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  139. 135. Explain why you think Obama earned the Nobel Peace prize and we can talk.

    My example shows that President Trump was never perceived to be a bad person, until he ran for, and won the Presidency.

    If Obama didn’t sick the CIA, FBI, DoJ, and the State Dept on Trumps campaign, he would be much more magnanimous. At this juncture, President Trump is going to spend some time and political capital, ferreting out those govt actors that abused their power in an attempt to end his Presidency.

    If you strike at the King, you better kill him.

    iowan2 (1c4a14)

  140. My example shows that President Trump was never perceived to be a bad person, until he ran for, and won the Presidency.

    What an AMAZINGLY FALSE mother-lode of BS! Jaaaazus, binky, do some reading!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. OT: watch this…
    https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1225532014436265984

    Elizabeth Harrington
    @LizRNC
    Whether he realizes it or not, Andrew Weissmann just admitted what we always knew:

    The purpose of the Mueller investigation was “trying to get rid of” President Trump and laying a perjury trap

    whembly (c30c83)

  142. If Trump had pretended to remorse, like Clinton did. Patterico would have called him on it.

    Since neither one of them had any remorse whatsoever (Clinton’s lawyers were obstructing right up to the end), Trump comes off as the honest one here.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  143. Trump comes off as the honest one here.

    BAAAAAWHAHAHAHAHA…!!!!

    UNbelievable.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  144. “If Obama didn’t sick the CIA, FBI, DoJ, and the State Dept on Trumps campaign, “

    Obama “sic” any of those on Trump

    Davethulhu (e6eb4d)

  145. “ And of course, the DNC-media will not change their minds that Trump is guilty.”

    What would change your mind on Trump’s guilt?

    Davethulhu (e6eb4d)

  146. Davethulhu (e6eb4d) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:25 pm

    You and Ragspierre seem to be our English police. If you’re going to do that maybe

    Obama didn’t “sic” any of those on Trump

    frosty (f27e97)

  147. “You and Ragspierre seem to be our English police”

    I put it in quotes because I changed the word, you’re oversensitive.

    Davethulhu (fe4242)

  148. If Trump had pretended to remorse, like Clinton did. Patterico would have called him on it.

    Does defending Trump really require sniping at our esteemed host with an imaginary proposition dressed up as fact?

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  149. If Trump had pretended to remorse, like Clinton did. Patterico would have called him on it.

    I think it safe to say that Patterico has been blogging back then, he would have called Clinton on it.

    Kishnevi (b4162e)

  150. If Clinton had publicly shown the same vindictiveness and absence of any capacity for moral reflection that Trump displays, every Trump apologist would be in high dudgeon about Clinton’s obvious unfitness for office.

    I remember the conservative talk radio stars being very very concerned about character back then, and insisting that conduct in private bears strongly on fitness for public responsibility. Nowadays, they and all their acolytes paint those who still care about character as traitors.

    Radegunda (5ab384)

  151. And the announcements of investigations of Biden started the second the impeachment was over.

    I think Biden is absurd. I have no interest in sticking up for him. But it is interesting that it’s all the Trump fans can talk about. It’s like they are little bots. Trump fans really want Sanders nominated, even though that seems like it would be bad for the country.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  152. 150. Don’t be so glum, chum. I think Bernie’s or even Bloomy’s candidacy on the Dem ticket would have enormous potential for entertainment value over the next nine months. If we have to crash-and-burn as a nation, we might as well get a few chuckles out of the bargain while we watch the two most leftist Dem candidates try to out-communist each other.

    Gryph (08c844)

  153. 152. That was supposed to be 151, not 150. Whoops.

    Gryph (08c844)

  154. @151 All of the leading D choices are bad for different reasons. Experience wise, Pete is no better than Beto. I’m not sure Joe could tell you what day it is or what state he’s in if you asked him first thing in the morning. I think he’s good for about an hour or so in general and it’s important to keep him on the teleprompter.

    But if you’re going to hold someone responsible for Bernie getting the nomination why not the people voting for him. After all the people who voted for Trump are responsible for Trump and the people who didn’t aren’t.

    frosty (f27e97)

  155. 150. Don’t be so glum, chum. I think Bernie’s or even Bloomy’s candidacy on the Dem ticket would have enormous potential for entertainment value over the next nine months. If we have to crash-and-burn as a nation, we might as well get a few chuckles out of the bargain while we watch the two most leftist Dem candidates try to out-communist each other.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/6/2020 @ 6:44 pm

    You are very very very right. But Trump fans know they are putting Trump over their own country by pushing for Bernie. Biden would obviously not be as bad as Bernie, but he would also beat Trump… or at least Trump acts like he’s certain of it. Trump was also certain Hillary would beat him so what does he know?

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  156. . But Trump fans know they are putting Trump over their own country by pushing for Bernie.

    You are not being fair to Trumpniki. They have internalized Trump’s claim that what is good for the country is good for Trump, and vice versa. They wholeheartedly believe that re-electing him is vital to our nation’s future. So they don’t think, much less know, they are putting Trump over country.

    Kishnevi (b4162e)

  157. It’s really the same thing. Dear Leader is our hope.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  158. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:19 pm

    Clinton’s remorse was feigned. Any remorse was that he’d gotten caught. Or are you going to assert that you thought Clinton was being straight up?

    If not, are you going to claim that Trump’s braying isn’t exactly what it seems? Trump is being Trump. Clinton was pretending to someone, something else. In that sense Trump is the honest one.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  159. Does defending Trump really require sniping at our esteemed host with an imaginary proposition dressed up as fact?

    Do you actually think that Patterico (or you) would tolerate a contrite-seeming Trump telling everyone how sorry he was? It would be such an obvious lie — and Trump is, if anything a terrible liar — that it would grate worse than his victory lap does.

    There are lots of things to criticize Trump for, but complaining that he’s acting like Trump isn’t one of them, and using BILL CLINTON as a paragon of virtue is risible.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  160. Trump fans really want Sanders nominated, even though that seems like it would be bad for the country.

    It is becoming clear that Trump will be re-elected, possibly in a landslide, given the Democrats feckless opposition. It’s really terrible that neither major party can compete with this buffoon, but all they have to offer are imitation buffoons.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  161. It is becoming clear that Trump will be re-elected, possibly in a landslide, given the Democrats feckless opposition.

    Definitely the meme today.

    It’s really terrible that neither major party can compete with this buffoon, but all they have to offer are imitation buffoons.

    It blows my mind.

    Bernie v Trump. Good grief. I love this country but it’s not always easy.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  162. “ Trump was also certain Hillary would beat him so what does he know?”

    Must have been keeping an eye on polls and news media in the year leading up to the election.

    Here’s a golden oldie example:

    https://youtu.be/hZmY_jIe6do

    harkin (d6cfee)

  163. 161. How about Bloomberg v Trump? That’s a matchup I wouldn’t mind seeing either. NYC billionaire versus someone who claims to be an NYC billionaire!

    Gryph (08c844)

  164. 158 & 159. Okay. So I’ll give you that Bill Clinton was a lying little crapweasel. He at least had the decency to feign contrition. Donald Trump can’t even do that!

    Gryph (08c844)

  165. Donald Trump’s Post-Impeachment East Room Speech Was Insane

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30798711/donald-trump-east-room-speech-impeachment-trial/

    Bobby Richardson ate the strawberries.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. 165. I’ve been seeing denouncements of Trump’s speech in places like Dailykos, but at what point to Trump humpers simply concede that Donald J. Trump is divorced from reality?

    Gryph (08c844)

  167. mr. president trump, who never lies except when speaking, writing or tweeting, is deep down contrite

    he just does not know how to express it

    he never learned sign language

    nk (1d9030)

  168. @164 Clinton had the decency to lie and you value that? And Trump’s problem in this case is he’s unwilling or unable to do that?

    frosty (f27e97)

  169. There are lots of things to criticize Trump for, but complaining that he’s acting like Trump isn’t one of them, and using BILL CLINTON as a paragon of virtue is risible.

    Behaving in a way that makes Bill Clinton look classy by contrast is remarkable in its own right.

    I’d take publicly expressed contrition from Trump. I’ve seen it only once (with the Access Hollywood tape) and I’ll almost certainly never see it again. But I’d take it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  170. I think Biden is absurd. I have no interest in sticking up for him. But it is interesting that it’s all the Trump fans can talk about. It’s like they are little bots. Trump fans really want Sanders nominated, even though that seems like it would be bad for the country.

    Dustin,

    I have a serious question for you. Would you vote for Biden (in an election against Trump)? Warren? Sanders?

    I think your answer is yes, because I think you said you voted for Hillary, which I thought was an unthinkable choice in 2016 but which I could conceivably see making if offered it again. God help me.

    I shouldn’t take my vote seriously because where I am, it makes sense to vote for the Democrat. It will have zero effect on the outcome but it will be one more popular vote for the opponent to Trump and that is a rebuke that it makes sense to contribute to.

    But I think we should cast our votes as if the totally impossible fiction is true: that our vote makes a difference. And using that criterion, I’m having a hell of a time trying to figure what the right move would be. Sit it out again (which is basically what I did with my vote for that fool McMullen)? Or vote for the Democrat?

    I am interested in your thoughts. I’m not interested in the thoughts of many, including many who will respond to my comment, but I’m interested in yours.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  171. “….at what point to Trump humpers simply concede that Donald J. Trump is divorced from reality?”
    __ _

    Tom Elliott
    @tomselliott
    Sen Elizabeth Warren blames America’s “legacy” of “racism and oppression” for her campaign staff creating a “toxic work environment” for their minority staff

    _

    Here’s a list of Bernie Sanders’ $19.6 trillion in tax hikes

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-a-list-of-bernie-sanders-196-trillion-in-tax-hikes
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  172. Absolutely I would vote for Biden over Trump.

    Though there are other reasons, I don’t want to distract from the main one. We can’t let this corruption stand. There is such a widespread effort to pretend there isn’t even corruption, and if Trump is reelected, it’s too powerful an incentive to keep this going. That’s too corrosive to what I value in this country. Right now, it’s already really too late. A man is clearly above the law. The central concept of the revolution is gone. The GOP’s elite might think that’s grand, but the people get a say soon too. I want to take what the Senate did and reject it. I also will probably be voting against all other GOP candidates with only one exception. I hope enough people do that this mercenary and cowardly party recognizes the damage it did to itself.

    Trump has got to be defeated. If the price I pay is a return to Obama-esque policies, that’s OK with me. Even with the judges it’s OK with me. It is amazing we’re at this point. The GOP sucks up all the potential reform and restraint oxygen and gives us Trump instead. It’s like political judo, taking all that hopeful energy and redirecting it into the pavement. Short circuiting the GOP, at least in this form, as quickly as possible, is the best way to have any semblance of progress.

    I haven’t considered Warren because she doesn’t seem to be a candidate that withstands scrutiny, but my thoughts about her are similar to my thoughts about Sanders.

    Sanders is rarely able to make deals or work with others. He would use executive orders to do a lot of drastic stuff, and that would be very bad for the country. I am not sure I can vote for Sanders even against Trump. I’m not really that far from it, which is amazing as I used to complain about Romney so much. I just worry that Sanders in particular, a true believer sort of liberal, could really do damage.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  173. If you’re in TX, Dustin, your vote will have more meaning than Patterico’s because TX is more in play, although I doubt it’ll be a real battleground state. If it does become an actual battleground state, then Trump is in real trouble.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  174. Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:01 pm

    Mega dittos.

    Dave (6ed7b7)

  175. Always trust the Bee:

    WASHINGTON, D.C.—President Trump arrived at the National Prayer Breakfast in high spirits Thursday, having been acquitted of all crimes and immorality forever.
    But his mood quickly turned sour as the evangelical leaders and ministers continued to talk about “some Jesus guy” instead of discussing the “far more important issue” of his acquittal.
    “I’m good with prayer and everything, but shouldn’t today be about me?” he grumbled to Mike Pence, who just stood there and smiled. “I was acquitted! Found not guilty! Innocent forever! Most innocent president of all time! And they’re all here going on and on about this Jesus fellow who apparently wasn’t even acquitted. I mean, he was found guilty, fair and square!”
    Pence continued to stand there and smile until Trump finally realized they had sent along Pence’s robotic decoy to the meeting. “I hate it when they do this.”
    At long last, Prayer Breakfast organizers were able to coax Trump into leading everybody in prayer, though he chose an imprecatory psalm to pray against the Democrats.

    I’m not too proud to admit that I had to look up “imprecatory”:

    “…those that invoke judgment, calamity, or curses, upon one’s enemies or those perceived as the enemies of God.”

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  176. Behaving in a way that makes Bill Clinton look classy by contrast is remarkable in its own right.

    I’ll pass on a comment about Pelosi.

    But really, did you find Clinton’s apology meaningful? Is the APPEARANCE of remorse from someone who is not remorseful more laudable than its absence would be? To me, Bill Clinton just lied one more time. That it was a lie that people wanted to hear doesn’t change things for me.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  177. (correct me if I’m wrong)

    I think its the difference of knowing how you should act and acting that way vs not even realizing how you should act. Like, two little kids at the table. They both want to play with their toys, but one is trying to sit still until being excused and the other is having a screaming fit. Everyone knows that they both want to be somewhere else, but one of them knows how to act right.

    Nic (896fdf)

  178. And they’re all here going on and on about this Jesus fellow who apparently wasn’t even acquitted.

    Informed that “Crooked Jesus,” as Trump began to refer to him, had been crucified to atone for mankind’s sins, Trump was unmoved.

    “I like people who weren’t crucified,” he insisted.

    Dave (1bb933)

  179. 168. I only value that insofar as Bill Clinton had more class that Donald Trump does(!). And before you go pointing out that I’m a hypocrite sacrificing his values and/or principles for saying that, it really is damning with faint praise. Trump humpers know that The Donald is a terrible human being by just about every measure except (arguably) wealth; they just don’t care.

    Gryph (08c844)

  180. Guys. We have the President we deserve. We will deserve the next President as well. Except for one thing, we Deserve all we get.

    felipe (023cc9)

  181. 180. Speak for yourself.

    Gryph (08c844)

  182. Guys. We have the President we deserve. We will deserve the next President as well. Except for one thing, we Deserve all we get.

    Bingo. Other R presidents could have moved the embassy to Jerusalem. Not that it’s all that big of a deal, but that’s what makes it even more ridiculous. Other presidents could have gotten the wall built (or could they?). Other presidents could have taken a stronger stand on illegal immigration (or could they?). More than 30 years have passed since Reagan left office. Nearly two generations. If one or the other had gotten these things done, or at the very least honestly and earnestly pressed the issue, DJT would have had much less wind for his sails. But they didn’t. And while not directly related to DJT, don’t get me started on how the whole R party in Florida went turtle during the Travon Martin/George Zimmerman encounter. Law and order for me but not for thee.

    PTw (894877)

  183. Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:29 pm

    I think this is one of the fundamental parts of Trump/anti-Trump debate. To a larger degree it’s a fundamental human issue. I think it was Nietzsche who said something about the abyss looking back. Most people aren’t interested in that at all.

    So, yes. There are a lot of people who value the appearance of the thing if the thing itself isn’t obtainable. Pushing back on that will trigger the cognitive dissonance.

    This is why you’re a bad person if you criticize Romney now. It’s what allows people to make a principled stand with Schiff and Pelosi, call Clinton classy for lying and giving a non-apology apology, accept Trump’s claims of patriotism or his GOAT POTUS routine, or think voting for people who don’t care for constitutional principles is required to protect the constitution. All of these guys are lying to some degree but for this group some lies can be lied about and then they are ok. After all, sometimes you’ve got to destroy the village to save it.

    frosty (f27e97)

  184. Heh, After all, sometimes you’ve got to destroy the village to save it.

    ISWYDT. I think…

    PTw (894877)

  185. I have to take exception, felipe. The American people deserve a MUCH more sane, competent nominating system. The idea that T-rump and Hellary Clinton were the best any system could regurgitate as presidential candidates is abominable and downright perverse.

    We have fine people in the US. We deserve to have our process put them forward.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  186. …DJT would have had much less wind for his sails.

    Duh Donald created his own wind by flagrantly and copiously LYING to the American people about various issues and how he was going to fix them.

    He did it yesterday. He’ll be doing it tomorrow.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  187. Thought 1 — Trump never believed he did anything wrong. Therefore, in his head, there is no reason to apologize. It was a “perfect” call

    Thought 2 — Clinton never committed crimes, in his head. He cheated on his wife, tried to cover it up, and it became public. So an apology for his conduct was in order, in his head.

    I guess I don’t find this comparison useful. Bill Clinton, caught in situation #1, would likely have gaslighted his way out of it, and wondered what the problem was. Donald Trump, caught in situation, might have found his way to an insincere read off the teleprompter recognition that he might have done something wrong.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  188. Clinton did not have the luxury, that Trump has, of his supporters knowing he is lying and not caring. (Ok, except for that one lady with the kneepads, no, not Monica, the one who only wished.) He needed to be believed in order to keep his support. Trump has that 20% of the population (really, that’s all he has but that’s all he needs) who follow their own brand of taquiyya: “It’s ok when Trump does it.”

    nk (1d9030)

  189. Trump has that 20% of the population (really, that’s all he has but that’s all he needs) who follow their own brand of taquiyya: “It’s ok when Trump does it.”

    20% of staunch loyalty seems about normal for our modern political circus atmosphere no matter who the candidate might be. Curious, what do you suppose the percentage was that said it was OK when Bush (pick one…or both) or Reagan or Clinton or Obama did it? Is there not a percentage of the population that believes “It’s only wrong when Trump does it?”. As you seem to consider yourself good at reading the minds of great masses of people, what percentage do you suppose those populations would be? Or do you think such things are irrelevant?

    PTw (894877)

  190. 187. Appalled (1a17de) — 2/7/2020 @ 6:17 am

    Thought 1 — Trump never believed he did anything wrong. Therefore, in his head, there is no reason to apologize. It was a “perfect” call

    Oh, he knows that putting a freeze on new aid to Ukraine was wrong (policywise) and based on misinformation, so he didn’t say a word about it.

    In defending the call he was actually knocking down a straw man. Or almost a straw man.

    Thought 2 — Clinton never committed crimes, in his head. He cheated on his wife..

    No, Clinton knew he committed a crime. Cheating on his wife as the reason to impeach him was a straw man. Now evangelicals would hold that against him, but they also like repentence.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  191. I’ll pass on a comment about Pelosi.

    But really, did you find Clinton’s apology meaningful? Is the APPEARANCE of remorse from someone who is not remorseful more laudable than its absence would be? To me, Bill Clinton just lied one more time. That it was a lie that people wanted to hear doesn’t change things for me.

    There might have been some remorse in there somewhere, alhough I don’t find Bill Clinton to be an honest person. Showing remorse might make it harder to retaliate against people, which is what Trump is now in the process of doing, as Alexander Vindman is about to be reassigned.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  192. Put another way: if the only thing in the world you can be honest about is that you can’t pretend not to be a vindictive asshole, I’ll pass on praising your honesty.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  193. Apropos of nothing, good work on getting all those happyfeet comments cleaned out.

    PTw (894877)

  194. Dustin, does it make more sense to vote against Trump in the Texas GOP primary, or to vote for Biden in the Texas Democratic primary?

    DRJ (15874d)

  195. I think it won’t be long before we don’t have Biden to kick around anymore. He seems to be on the way down and out, and his support is going to others — mainly Buttagieg it looks like. This is bad news for Bernie of course.

    I’m not surprised. To hear Joe try to complete a sentence without faltering is painful. I never thought he would be the nominee.

    JRH (52aed3)

  196. New Yorker magazine account of the prosecutors in the Trump impeachment trial:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/the-prosecution-of-president-donald-trump

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  197. if the only thing in the world you can be honest about is that you can’t pretend not to be a vindictive asshole, I’ll pass on praising your honesty.

    A point, indeed.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  198. 194, with Biden goes any chance of TX. And crazy Joe Walsh suspended his campaign this morning.

    urbanleftbehind (c542a3)

  199. This is why you’re a bad person if you criticize Romney now.

    I don’t. I don’t criticize ANY ONE for their vote on Article one. It was purely political and/or judgemental. But I deeply believe that anyone who voted to sustain Article 2 was a hack; it was unsupportable on ANY evidence since he was being impeached for asserting settled law.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  200. https://www.texastribune.org/2020/02/05/michael-bloomberg-texas-field-offices-super-tuesday

    He still has work to do to improve his standing in the state, however. Former Vice President Joe Biden has topped most polls. One Texas survey since Bloomberg’s launch, released Dec. 11 by CNN, found Bloomberg at 5% — good enough for fifth place but still far behind Biden, who placed first with 35%.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  201. Dustin, does it make more sense to vote against Trump in the Texas GOP primary, or to vote for Biden in the Texas Democratic primary?

    A vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.

    He’s senile.

    He’s a perpetual loser in Presidential campaigns.

    Children love touching his hairy legs, according to him.

    He came in freakin’ 4th in Iowa!

    Obama pretty much chose him as impeachment insurance, and isn’t even strongly behind him now.

    I know I’m missing some points about Biden’s strong campaigning negatives, but if you really want a Dem to stop Trump, Biden ain’t it.

    Oh, I know the point I missed: He and his son’s corruption in Ukraine kill his campaign. It’s what made impeaching on those grounds so phenomenally stupid. It just highlights that President Trump was, yeah as President, trying to get Biden’s corruption looked at. Which it should be. Because it’s awful.

    But sure vote for Biden. He can’t win.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  202. Something like Article II would, in my opinion, be correct if an investigation had been frustrated. It might have happened to Richard Nixon in 1073/4 if he hadn’t appointed a new special prosecutor. That was the implicit threat that forced him to.

    If you bring an Article I you don’t need, and shouldn’t use, an Article II type accusation.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  203. Dustin, does it make more sense to vote against Trump in the Texas GOP primary, or to vote for Biden in the Texas Democratic primary?

    Voting for Biden to be the nominee is like voting for Trump in November. Biden is the candidate of the status quo ante which Trump’s election demolished. The debate is how to go forward, and looking backwards isn’t going to fly. It’s too bad that all the GOP is offering is Trump.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  204. Voting for Biden to be the nominee is like voting for Trump in November. Biden is the candidate of the status quo ante which Trump’s election demolished. The debate is how to go forward, and looking backwards isn’t going to fly. It’s too bad that all the GOP is offering is Trump.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/7/2020 @ 11:21 am

    I wonder where you get that impression. Trump is just like the status quo. That’s why the GOP wanted him over Cruz, who like Sanders, was an agent of change… the kind of guy who believes in something. Cruz has faltered enormously, but I suspect it’s an ends justifies playing the game thing. We know behind closed doors Cruz upsets the worst GOP elements. Sanders too.

    Trump hasn’t changed a thing, hasn’t drained any swamps, certainly hasn’t impoverished the lobbyists. For all the big talk, the trough of full of taxpayer dollars today.

    Biden would crush Trump in the general election. There is tremendous Russian disinfo meant to give people the impression of the opposite, but I believe Biden is 9 points ahead. Those betting markets (very easily manipulated by the bad guys who manipulate things) say Biden has no shot, and all Trump energy is directed specifically at Biden.

    Why would that be if Biden is Trump’s path to re-election?

    Talk is cheap. Watch actions. Bernie will be carefully kneecapped at some point. The democrats haven’t changed. I expect a Biden Romney ticket or something hilarious like that.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  205. Biden did as expected in irrelevant Iowa. It’s not a real contest. This is why Biden really won Iowa insofar as a state he was predicted to lose badly totally screwed up their contest and had delayed and muddled results anyway. That’s the best Biden could have done. It’s actually kinda interesting that the party fav got that.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  206. Sammy (202):

    Executive Privilege is one of those things that Congress always hates and all Presidents love. But it is settle law that the President has the right to confidential discussions with his aides. It is no more (or less) fundamental than the attorney-client privilege; without executive privilege the president would be unable to function.

    Congress, in it’s article 2 charge, asserted, without legal basis, that if a Congressional committee says the magic words “this is an impeachment inquiry” then they can breach the privilege. This would make the privilege meaningless (and Congress would be OK with that) and the presidency would be castrated.

    In the Nixon case, the Saturday Night Massacre and the phony FBI investigation had little to do with E.P. The tapes touched on that, and the Court narrowly (and quickly) ruled that in that particular case the subpoenaed tapes had to be surrendered.

    Congress could have taken Trump to Court to get the testimony and/or documents they wanted. They chose instead to assert their opinion in an impeachment article.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  207. I’m not surprised. To hear Joe try to complete a sentence without faltering is painful. I never thought he would be the nominee.

    JRH (52aed3) — 2/7/2020 @ 10:55 am

    You are quite right, but Hillary was in poor shape and they were able to get her nominated.

    And really, Trump is pretty dumb off the teleprompter too. A debate between them would be the dumbest thing I ever saw. I want Biden to insist he has a higher IQ in response to Trump bragging he gropes hotter wives or something.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  208. Dustin,

    Since you obviously have no idea why Trump got the nomination, or why he was elected, your assertion that the mindless minions rose up to defend the status quo is at best confused.

    Trump got the nomination, and won the election, because a significant portion of the adult population was ripsh1t about the status quo. If the wanted same-old same-old they would have voted for Hillary. They wanted a sharp break from the past, and they found their cudgel in Trump, despite his many glaring faults.

    Populism doesn’t just happen. It only shows up when the Establishment fails and keeps on failing for a large number of people. It is not the antithesis of democracy, it is the glory of democracy. All those people who worked for Trump, who sent him money, who got their friends and neighbors down to the polls for Trump did so because they were desperate for change and got off their ass to get it.

    Sure, if you were a well-educated professional member of the investing class (like me), the old Clinton-Bush axis was a comfortable one. But too many people were being ignored. So they rose up.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  209. @166. I’ve been seeing denouncements of Trump’s speech in places like Dailykos, but at what point to Trump humpers simply concede that Donald J. Trump is divorced from reality?

    It was inevitable one of the lab rats would make it all the way through the electoral maze one day. If you can be honest w/yourself, set side political and personal biases, brew a good cuppa java and just patiently watch and more importantly, listen to that 70 minute scatter shot stream of misfiring synapses, meandering thoughts with incomplete phrases and jumbled words, you’re gobsmacked that he’s even allowed near a sharp object. His wiring is frayed; his short-circuiting increasingly obvious– and getting worse. Equally frightening are the healthier, butt kissing audience of sycophants taking advantage of a clearly sick man.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


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