Patterico's Pontifications

He’s just jealous.

Make America Ordered Again (4e92ad) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:09 pm

Romney’s thinking is here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/romney-impeach-trump/606127/

Appalled (1a17de) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:18 pm

The man certainly doesn’t treat dogs right.

Make America Ordered Again (4e92ad) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:22 pm

Here is the full text of Romney’s remarks.

The historic meaning of the words “high crimes and misdemeanors,” the writings of the Founders and my own reasoned judgement convince me that a president can indeed commit acts against the public trust that are so egregious that while they are not statutory crimes, they would demand removal from office.

And:

The defense argues that the Senate should leave the impeachment decision to the voters. While that logic is appealing to our democratic instincts, it is inconsistent with the Constitution’s requirement that the Senate, not the voters, try the president. Hamilton explained that the Founders’ decision to invest senators with this obligation rather than leave it to voters was intended to minimize—to the extent possible—the partisan sentiments of the public.

What’ll be fun to see now is the angry binders-of-women crowd start to approvingly tie their dogs on their car rooftops.

Dana (aaddb1) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:27 pm

“Today I am proud of Mitt Romney.”

Pierre Delecto is going to feel left out.

Munroe (861db5) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:28 pm

Good for him. He’s right on this issue.

Time123 (a7a01b) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:33 pm

Trump’s attempts to enlist the Ukrainian president in interfering with the 2020 election

It was not an attempt to “enlist the Ukrainian president” to “interfere with the 2020 election” That overgeneralizes it.

It was a request that a certain question be answered. Trump was wrong in (at least the specific details) of his accusation and Trump was considered bullheaded and stupid enough to nt easily receive the news that he was wrong.

Did Romney say it was wrong whether or not Trump intended to pressure the Ukrainian government to support the accusation?

If it didn’t matter that sets a bad precedent because it means an accusation of something unethical by a presidential candidate could never be explored. It would be in the interest of more than Donald Trump to find that out if it was true, and it would be useless to Donald Trump unless it was true (Trump is not good at slandering people effectively, or at all.)

Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:34 pm

The Romneys are easily brainwashed. 😉

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:41 pm

Mitt Romney said:

he President’s counsel noted that Vice President Biden appeared to have a conflict of interest when he undertook an effort to remove the Ukrainian Prosecutor General. If he knew of the exorbitant compensation his son was receiving from a company actually under investigation, the Vice President should have recused himself. While ignoring a conflict of interest is not a crime, it is surely very wrong.

That wasn’t the accusation Trump made against Joe Biden in the July 25, 2019 telephone call! .

The accusation that trump wanted looked into was that Joe Biden had (singlehandedly, because he said so) caused the firing of a prosecutor in Ukraine who was conducting an investigation that would have impacted his son and that Joe Biden had so stated in a recording or video that Donald Trump had heard.

Now Joe Biden did not so state in the Q&A period of his presentation before the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018. Biden did not state that he had stopped an investigation, nor was too much evidence offered by the president’s lawyers that any investigation of Burisma by Viktor Shokin that the company had to fear was in fact going on. The consensus of opinion seems to be the opposite.

Trump seems to have relied on other people for those details.

What Trump’s state of mind was makes a great deal of difference. And it also makes a big difference whether he tried to force Ukraine to come to a conclusion or announce they were looking into it.

Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:46 pm

‘The historic meaning of the words “high crimes and misdemeanors,” the writings of the Founders and my own reasoned judgement’

… and the fact that I’m not up for re-election …

Munroe (861db5) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:54 pm

Lots of praise coming from the same people who accused him of murder, bullying and animal cruelty plus ridiculed him for seeking qualified women and pointing out Russian aggression.
_

No, your stupid!
@RalfLopios
·
Will he never learn there is no appeasing the left?

They are the party of 15-minutes of fame, of the revolving door of love/hate/love/hate…
__ _

Stephen Miller
@redsteeze
All this praise for Romney goes away when he votes to confirm Amy Barrett btw.
__

harkin (fb7ea4) — 2/5/2020 @ 12:59 pm

And praise from people that voted for him for president.

Trump did it.
You don’t care.
Romney does.

Time123 (235fc4) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:06 pm

Gutsy call, Mr. Romney.

He’s being called a Benedict Arnold by some idiots. Duh Donald will call him worse.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:09 pm

So he votes against witnesses and then votes to convict and remove on the lack of evidence? Whatever, Mittens.

Walt (b99412) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:12 pm

Sammy (at #10),

Romney can only vote based on the record before him. Trump’s counsel never argued your theory of the facts of the case. Instead, he argued this:

Vice President Biden went to Ukraine approximately 12 to 13 times. He spoke with legislators, business people, and officials. He was purportedly fighting corruption in Ukraine. He was urging Ukraine to investigate and uproot corruption.

One thing he apparently did not do, however, was to tell his son not to trade on his family connections. He did not tell his son to especially stay away from the energy sector in the very corruption-ridden country Vice President Biden was responsible for.

https://www.congress.gov/116/crec/2020/01/27/CREC-2020-01-27-senate.pdf (p. S599)

There’s much more at the link (which is the transcript of last Monday’s presentation). Trump’s counsel spent a lot of time justifying an investigation of Biden by asserting that Biden had a conflict of interest. In absence of any witnesses, you cannot fault Romney for relying on statements by Trump’s counsel.

Appalled (1a17de) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:13 pm

Matt Murphy
@mattmurphyshow
·
Leftist media savaged Mitt Romney in 2012. Actually accused him of causing the deaths of multiple people among other heinous acts.

Now watch as they prop him up as a paragon of moral virtue.

Useful idiots.
__ _

harkin (fb7ea4) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:14 pm

Vote in progress

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:15 pm

The attacks on Romney show that this stings Trump. Too bad there aren’t a few more.

Dustin (764e61) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:16 pm

The attacks on Romney show that this stings Trump. Too bad there aren’t a few more.

Not much. It’s mostly because he’s a venemous jackass, seething that he didn’t get the Presidency and Trump did, bettering him. He’s slime.

Make America Ordered Again (4e92ad) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:18 pm

“You don’t care.
Romney does.”
Time123 (235fc4) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:06 pm

You can tell Mitt cares when he has that “I fired your Dad” look on his face.

Munroe (861db5) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:19 pm

@20, or he agrees with Collins and Alexander that Trump did it, and feels that it rises to the level of an impeachable offense.

Time123 (a7a01b) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:21 pm

Munroe,

But Trump can always top that with this expression. “I fired your Dad and slept with your sister. Once. Then I fired her too.”

Appalled (1a17de) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:23 pm

Romney: Guilty on Article I; Not Guilty on Article II.

Naturally. He likes Ike, too:

“Strictly a split-the-difference man.” – Bill Ogden [Henry Daniell] “The Man In The Gray Flannel Suit” 1956

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:34 pm

Romney’s vote is defensible. The Democrats votes on the 2nd Article — charging the President with relying on settled law –are not.

Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:36 pm

At long last… the impeachment is now over.

But the punditry will now go into overdrive…

whembly (fd57f6) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:42 pm

A very weak, egotistical speech supporting his vote of guilty. The most dishonest part, was the bit about how he wanted to hear from Bolton because it MIGHT have changed his vote to Not Guilty. Of course, FAKE MODERATE WV Joe voted guilty on both counts.

A disgusting spectacle by the Senate Democrats who didn’t even have the decency to vote Not Guilty on Article II which made no sense at all. Nope, every single one voted guilty one everything, just like every single D voted Not Guilty with Clinton.

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:45 pm

@15 “So he votes against witnesses and then votes to convict and remove on the lack of evidence? Whatever, Mittens.”

Actually, Romney voted FOR witnesses (but against further documents). He was consistent on this one.

And he was principled. The commenter above who pointed out with snark that Romney isn’t facing re-election, as if that shows his decision to be cynical, actually shows the opposite: Unlike the other GOP establishment bootlickers, who are all thinking only of how their votes will affect their own electoral dreams down the road, Romney is not up for re-election until the end of Trump’s second term, and probably wouldn’t run anyway. So unlike the others, he can vote his conscience — or, more to the point, he can KEEP his conscience, rather than carefully twisting it to match his pragmatic convenience.

Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:47 pm

Romney is simply an egotistical clown. His speech was terrible and included “Me” “My” and “I” 50 times, and his honesty in pushing for witnesses very questionable. It’d be nice if he could have simply explained his decision without patting himself on the back for being such a fine NOBLE fellow, who has a mighty conscious that gets constant input from God Almighty. And by God, Mittens is going to make decision HIS WAY, and if you don’t like it, tough!

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:49 pm

@29. Shorter: carpetbagger.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:49 pm

Here’s Romney’s great support for removing a POTUS, 10 months before an election:

-The President asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.
-The President withheld vital military funds from that government to press it to do so.
-The President delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders.
-The President’s purpose was personal and political.
-Accordingly, the President is guilty of an appalling abuse of the public trust.

Except Ukraine is NOT a war with “Russian Invaders”. And the President has DENIED his purpose was “Personal and political”. And Biden is not a “Political Rival” unless you believe every Democrat is. And even this was all true, this is not a “High crime”. If it was then every President since FDR should have been impeached.

Finally, why did Romney need to hear from Bolton? Nothing Bolton would’ve said could have shown Trump’s motive was NOT personal and political. AGAIN, Mittens is a liar. He wanted to string out the trial to damage Trump. That’s all.

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:56 pm

And by God, Mittens is going to make decision[s] HIS WAY, and if you don’t like it, tough!

Well, duh. It is his vote.
”
And the word is “conscience”. Learn it, live it, try it.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:57 pm

“ Romney is simply an egotistical clown. ”

Man, the projection.

Davethulhu (94520c) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:59 pm

I have to admit I’m predjudiced against Romney. I would dislike him even if I agreed 100% with his politics. He’s a liar, backstabber, pompous, unprincipled backstabbing phony. Take his dishonesty and combine it with his sanctimonious attitude – ugh!

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:00 pm

I’ll wait for someone with some brains to comment. Adios.

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:00 pm

Mittens is a liar. He wanted to string out the trial to damage Trump. That’s all.

I could at least as justifiably call YOU a liar on the same predicates.

Cripes!

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:02 pm

Appalled (1a17de) — 2/5/2020 @ 1:13 pm

Trump’s counsel spent a lot of time justifying an investigation of Biden by asserting that Biden had a conflict of interest.

This was a milder, closer to the truth, but less Ukraine=specific allegation than the investigation that what Trump actually asked Ukraine to investigate.

Trump, in effect,asked questions that only people with access to the records of the Ukrainian government, or familiar with its politics would know:

1) Did Joe Biden, in fact, cause the firing of the prosecutor?

2) Was the prosecutor doing some kind of investigation which would impact Joe Biden’s son Hunter adversely?

Now Gordon Sondland seemed to think it should be open-ended.

In absence of any witnesses, you cannot fault Romney for relying on statements by Trump’s counsel.

ou have the transcript of the call. There was evidence besides what Trump’s lawers weresaying, whc=ich was an investigation was justified based on what we know now.

Trump’s lawyers tried to make the request look more reasonable when they should have gone to the question: Did Trump know his accusation, as detailed, was wrong?

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:04 pm

Trump actually assumed the answer to the second question was yes, and wanted to know only if a Yes answer to the first question could be verified. He wanted the answer in detail. Also about 2016 where he assumed something happened and wanted details.

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:07 pm

if your names not mitt
you must acquit

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:15 pm

Someone just had to emulate/imitate McCain and Mitt is just the one to do it.

He was a scourge a few yrs back, but now he will b the darling of those not conservative and of the Dems=MSM.

Enjoy it while u can Pierre because u have opted for the easy applause.

Amon-Ra (c5edc9) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:16 pm

transcontinental political grifter mittens

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:21 pm

Mitt couldn’t beat the 47%, so he joined it.

Munroe (861db5) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:46 pm

How can you not laugh at these clowns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:46 pm

When birds of a feather, flock together, once can step in Mitt, Mr. Feet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgO8Vfh1qU

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:55 pm

I voted for Romney, and I did so gladly. If he was running in my primary against Trump, I’d vote for him again. Sadly he’s not, nor is anyone else to speak of. Yes, he cast this vote, but it was mostly a futile gesture.

Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:00 pm

I wonder how much the 2-minute haters realize their attacks on Mitt are just what Big Brother expects of them.

Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:01 pm

mr senator mittens also known as willard is a shining beacon of all that is just and good and honest and tastefully coiffed and naturally tanned and he has bravely stepped forward to show us all the way to salvation in failmericas darkest hour

Dave (2c186f) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:32 pm

Time for a new post unless Mittens is considered bigger news.
_

Lawrence O’Donnell
@Lawrence
·
Each day for the rest of his life @LindseyGrahamSC will live in enraged jealousy of @MittRomney’s courage.
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It’s still 2016 apparently
@jtLOL
·
You once stood in your MSNBC studio and challenged Mitt Romney’s son to a fistfight.
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Rashida Tlaib
@RashidaTlaib
·
It’s worse than letting a criminal get off. Their vote created a dictatorship.
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Stephen Miller
@redsteeze
·
It did? I guess you guys can stop counting votes in Iowa then.
_

harkin (fb7ea4) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:47 pm

mittens is now the leading moron to be president of the resistance

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 3:52 pm

He has faithful lieutenants.

Make America Ordered Again (279002) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:01 pm

Given that Mr Romney voted guilty on only one of the two articles of impeachment, are you only half proud of him?

The Dana in Kentucky (b49bca) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:05 pm

Let’s face facts: for Mr Romney, this was personal.

1 – Mr “Romney, during the 2016 campaign, delivered a speech blasting then-candidate Trump as a ‘phony,’ and a ‘fraud’ who was ‘playing members of the American public for suckers.’”
2 – Then, after Mr Trump won, he went to visit the President-elect, hoping to get the Secretary of State’s job; Mr Trump chose someone else.
3 – In 2016, Mr Romney in 2016 said Trump’s comments about the KKK, Muslims, Mexicans, and people with disabilities would have kept him from accepting his endorsement. In 2018, he asked President Trump for his endorsement in the 2018 Senate race, which he received.
4 – Just two months after Mr Romney won his Senate race, he wrote an OpEd for The Washington Post in which he said, “The president shapes the public character of the nation. Trump’s character falls short.”

Mr Romney complained about the President’s character, but this documented behavior sure more like two-faced opportunism than principle to me.

The Dana in Kentucky (b49bca) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:22 pm

Romney is slime.

And Patterico knows everything you just said.

Make America Ordered Again (279002) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:33 pm

Given that Mr Romney voted guilty on only one of the two articles of impeachment, are you only half proud of him?

Reasonable people could disagree on the first article. The second article was hogwash — they impeached him for relying on settled law. Everyone says they hate executive privilege when they’re out, but it’s the bulwark of the Presidency when they’re in. Allowing the Congress to negate it by the painless subterfuge of “conducting an impeachment inquiry” would destroy it in every meaningful way.

Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:40 pm

The point being that the 47 Democrats that voted for Article 2 were just as much a bunch of cowards as any Republican who voted no on article 1.

Kevin M (8ae2cb) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:42 pm

The second article was hogwash — they impeached him for relying on settled law

That isn’t quite true. Executive privilege does not allow a POTUS to erect a stone wall. It has its limits. The House should have pushed back on claims of privilege via the courts.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:51 pm

Now I remember why I quit reading patterico a couple of years ago…

So that explains the content of the dozen posts a day from you. Good to know.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6c953d) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:57 pm

Count me as surprised that Mitt is the one GOP member of Congress–the only one–who broke ranks (actually, half broke ranks) from the Trump stranglehold on the GOP.

Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:06 pm

I don’t think there’s any reason to smear Romney. This is just him building his brand. America has been missing its R maverick.

frosty (f27e97) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:06 pm

“Pat isn’t really a ‘leftwinger’, he’s more an embittered anti-Trumper who’ll swing any stick, left or right, against Trump without a care for how strong it is or who hands it to him.“

Probably most prescient comment I’ve seen on this website still.

Property rights (6e5e6e) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:07 pm

@61. See #44.

He’s been bottled and branded.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:11 pm

R.I.P. Kirk Douglas; he was 103

Icy (d4acbc) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:11 pm

39. happyfeet (49d443) — 2/5/2020 @ 2:10 pm

and he’s free as a bird now

Unlike Bill Ayers, he’s actually not guilty as charged.

But was too proud to undergo the humiliation he would have gone through to make that clear.

Maybe the Democrats, by pursuing the testimony of John Bolton, will do that for him.

But Republican Senators will have to call Rudy Giuliani to testify.

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:12 pm

Patterico, consider yourself flattered. You have not one, not two, but three — count them, three!– new Trump-bots to jam your threads.

nk (1d9030) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:28 pm

53. The Dana in Kentucky (b49bca) — 2/5/2020 @ 4:22 pm

Mr Romney complained about the President’s character, but this documented behavior sure more like two-faced opportunism than principle to me.

It’s more like he struggles with his conscience, and his conscience wins, except when he’s up for election or could do the kind of thing Mike Pompeo does.

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 5:59 pm

“There’s no question in my mind that were their names not Biden, the president would never have done what he did.”

Ding ding ding. That’s why this President is guilty and should have been indicted. The door is wide open for future Presidents to ask foreign govts to “investigate corruption.” Bad for everyone.

Great speech but it’s sad he’s all by his lonesome.

JRH (52aed3) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:34 pm

According to Romney, he used back channels to request from the White House directly, sworn affidavits of the Presidents closest advisers. Hoping that those persons could provide exculpatory evidence he might base a decision to acquit.

That leaves me with the facts. Trump was innocent until proven guilty. Yet Romney required President Trump to prove his innocence. Because, the prosecution did not prove the Presidents guilt.

iowan2 (1c4a14) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:53 pm

McConnell Triumphant: Immediately After Impeachment Acquittal Files Cloture On More Judges To Remake Judiciary

https://www.dailywire.com/news/mcconnell-triumphant-immediately-after-impeachment-acquittal-files-cloture-on-more-judges-to-remake-judiciary?%3Futm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwtwitter
__ _

MRCTV.org ✔
@mrctv
WATCH: Mitch McConnell slams Nancy Pelosi for saying she “would refuse to accept” an impeachment acquittal.

“Perhaps she will tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address.“
_

Kind of ironic that all those squealing about Republicans tearing up the Constitution had both the party and the document wrong.
_

harkin (fb7ea4) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:56 pm

I guess Romney knows that if he really wants, he can remove Trump from office by running as a third party candidate.

Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:57 pm

Trump was innocent until proven guilty.

Before putting him in prison, yes, as a presumption needed for the justice system to function.

But he is guilty regardless, from the moment he committed his many crimes that we all know he did.

Trump ain’t a victim here.

Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:59 pm

That leaves me with the facts. Trump was innocent until proven guilty. Yet Romney required President Trump to prove his innocence.

Wrong. Romney saw the evidence presented and concluded Trump was guilty. He was giving Trump a chance to provide something that would counter or contradict said evidence and Trump turned him down.

Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:02 pm

“There’s no question in my mind that were their names not Biden, the president would never have done what he did.”

JRH @68.

Ding ding ding. That’s why this President is guilty and should have been indicted.

That doesn’t make him guilty. And the articles of Impeachment don’t say outright that it doesn’t matter if he charges are true or not, or likely or unlikely, or believed as at least plausible or not, pressed.

And that would create a very bad precedent.

The House managers, although trying to obviate truth, sincerity, plausibility or belief in the possibility of it being true as a defense, didn’t have the guts to actually say that if any of these things were true, Trump would still be guilty and not have a defense against impeachment.

But they repeatedly called the charges against Biden smears, and implied that Trump might invent more of them, if left in office, perhaps against other political rivals.

Nor did they distinguish between requesting a witch hunt, or a fishing expedition or for the truth about some specific allegations the president had heard..

Alan Dershowitz said that, before Joe Biden announced for president (actually not true, say without him being considered a possible candidate) Joe Biden was just a has-been, (and it was maybe not worth investigating what happened several years before) but now he was a possible president (and why is the truth of the matter not a matter of general public concern if you are worried about corruption?)

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:30 pm

I guess Romney knows that if he really wants, he can remove Trump from office by running as a third party candidate.

I wish, but he won’t. His principles extend to loyalty to his party, as worm-raddled as it may have become. Besides, with his older brother’s daughter as chairwoman of the RNC, he would never eat an unburned tuna casserole at home or at family gatherings ever again.

nk (1d9030) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:34 pm

iowan2 (1c4a14) — 2/5/2020 @ 6:53 pm

According to Romney, he used back channels to request from the White House directly, sworn affidavits of the Presidents closest advisers. Hoping that those persons could provide exculpatory evidence he might base a decision to acquit.

I can’t find that in his speech.

He seems to say that the (second and only legitimate) White House defense was that the Bidens’ conduct justified the President’s actions. Blunders not allowed. Stupidity not allowed. Lack of pressure coming from the Trump not allowed.Dysfunction in administration not allowed. Limits on pressure not allowed.

That leaves me with the facts. Trump was innocent until proven guilty. Yet Romney required President Trump to prove his innocence. Because, the prosecution did not prove the Presidents guilt.

Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:41 pm

Yet Romney required President Trump to prove his innocence.

He wanted to give them a chance to rebut the overwhelming evidence presented against him. They couldn’t.

Trump’s lackeys whined about being cut out of the House process (which they weren’t) and now they’re whining because a GOP senator wanted to hear from them.

Because, the prosecution did not prove the Presidents guilt.

Quite a few GOP senators seemed to think they did, but then weaseled out with the Bubba defense (“Yes, yes, it’s awful, awful! But not awful enough to actually do anything about.”)

Dave (1bb933) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:55 pm

I wish, but he won’t. His principles extend to loyalty to his party, as worm-raddled as it may have become. Besides, with his older brother’s daughter as chairwoman of the RNC, he would never eat an unburned tuna casserole at home or at family gatherings ever again.

nk (1d9030) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:34 pm

He should announce and then offer to drop out for payment. See how far he can take this corruption thing they’ve got going.

Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:17 pm

I had to get aggressive with the spam filter to prevent happyfeet from getting around it. I believe I have deleted every comment he has made this year and have instituted a very strong protection against his idiocy going forward. I hope it doesn’t catch too many comments from people who aren’t mushheads, but at this point this is the only solution.

Patterico (115b1f) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:23 pm

UPDATE: Here is his speech.

Patterico (115b1f) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:46 pm

Trump was innocent until proven guilty.

Entirely true. He was innocent until he was proven guilty.

Patterico (115b1f) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:48 pm

Let’s face facts: for Mr Romney, this was personal.

1 – Mr “Romney, during the 2016 campaign, delivered a speech blasting then-candidate Trump as a ‘phony,’ and a ‘fraud’ who was ‘playing members of the American public for suckers.’”
2 – Then, after Mr Trump won, he went to visit the President-elect, hoping to get the Secretary of State’s job; Mr Trump chose someone else.
3 – In 2016, Mr Romney in 2016 said Trump’s comments about the KKK, Muslims, Mexicans, and people with disabilities would have kept him from accepting his endorsement. In 2018, he asked President Trump for his endorsement in the 2018 Senate race, which he received.
4 – Just two months after Mr Romney won his Senate race, he wrote an OpEd for The Washington Post in which he said, “The president shapes the public character of the nation. Trump’s character falls short.”

Mr Romney complained about the President’s character, but this documented behavior sure more like two-faced opportunism than principle to me.

That’s lovely, but 1) you openly don’t care about principle and 2) you therefore have zero standing to complain about anyone’s alleged lack of principle.

Patterico (115b1f) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:51 pm

That’s lovely, but 1) you openly don’t care about principle and 2) you therefore have zero standing to complain about anyone’s alleged lack of principle.

Ah, but things work a bit differently in TrumpWorld.

Being guilty of X not only entitles, but requires you to loudly accuse everyone else of X, especially people who are completely innocent of it.

Dave (1bb933) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:58 pm

mittens/multiple wives/2020

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:08 pm

schiff + mitt = schitt

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:16 pm

I dunno, Trump kinda owns the “multiple wives” demographic, doesn’t he?

Dave (1bb933) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:16 pm

@80 I’m not Buddhist but I can discuss the behavior of one according to what I know about the religion. I don’t think Dana in Kentucky was complaining about it but opinions can differ. It’s a fair description of those events. Your comment probably applies more to Romney than the comment from Dana in Kentucky.

frosty (f27e97) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:19 pm

My guess is that Trump hates Romney because the Utah Senator came out this zinger:

“Donald Trump has had several foreign wives,” Romney joked at the annual dinner for the National Republican Congressional Committee Tuesday night. “It turns out that there really are jobs Americans won’t do.”

Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:21 pm

@85 That’s a good zinger. Undermines the above it all principled gentleman image but it probably got some laughs.

frosty (f27e97) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:29 pm

mittens and his ilk are full of it

mg (8cbc69) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:35 pm

“Donald Trump has had several foreign wives,” Romney joked at the annual dinner for the National Republican Congressional Committee Tuesday night. “It turns out that there really are jobs Americans won’t do.”

An emotionally sound human being would rightfully resent that, but Trump’s wives and children are nothing more than ornaments whose purpose is to adorn and gratify him.

Dave (1bb933) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:40 pm

Before Mitt, nobody knew what a haircut bully was and nobody knew Candy Crowley could win a presidential debate.

Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:41 pm

Romney sent an individually addressed and signed note explaining his vote to every other Republican senator.

(It consists of four paragraphs excerpted from his floor speech)

Dave (1bb933) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:45 pm

Of course, Mitt didn’t actually want that Sec of State job.

Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/5/2020 @ 9:51 pm

I’ve been telling that joke for four years, and I had heard it from somebody else.

nk (1d9030) — 2/5/2020 @ 10:04 pm

Mitt Romney probably killed whatever was left of his political career with this vote and speech — and yet he chose to make this his final (and perhaps defining) significant act as a politician.

Fact: America would be better off without anymore Romney-style progressive establishment men in the halls of government.

Also Fact: America might still be a free and moral republic, rather than a progressive-immoralist-populist-demagogue quagmire, if there were even five men left in Washington with half the character and dignity Romney displayed here.

Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 2/5/2020 @ 11:22 pm

Romney showed no character or dignity. His stand took no bravery. He’s standing with the entire Liberal establishment. He’s getting applause and hugs from the MSM. The what’s the downside for him?

The Senate R’s don’t care. There will be no blow back from them.
The Utah voters may care now, but they won’t in 2024.
Trump may care, but doesn’t like Romney anyway.

Look forward to a prominent WaPo/NYT Op-ed from Mittens. He’s already done 3 interviews telling us how noble and brave he was.

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:25 am

It was a meaningless vote, since Trump was NEVER going to be convicted. But it had one good upside, Mitt Romney has made it clear that he hates Trump and will sabotage him at every turn. I mean that was rather obvious to anyone paying attention, but this vote means even the biggest boob in Utah understands it.

Oh Mitt Romney, yeah he’s the only Republican in CONGRESS who sided with the D’s and tried to impeach and remove trump. Guess he’s a Trump hater. Think of it, out of 243 R Senators and Congressman, Mitt Romney was THE ONLY ONE to vote to convict/impeach Trump.

rcocean (1a839e) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:30 am

mittens groupies must wear knee pads kissing his azz.

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:46 am

which one of you mittens groupies placed the gerbil so mittens has such a funny walk?

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 1:49 am

#95

Mitt Romney has made it clear that he hates Trump and will sabotage him at every turn

Did you watch Romney’s speech? If not, do it now. I’ll wait.

Now that you’ve seen it, do you doubt Romney felt compelled to cast the vote he did by his duty to speak truth before God? If you do doubt it, do you make a regular practice of questioning the sincerity of people’s religious commitments, or just those that chafe your politics?

lurker (d8c5bc) — 2/6/2020 @ 2:24 am

Mike Lee lied in from of God, lurker?
nothing quite like a mittens rump swab.

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:35 am

@95: “Think of it, out of 243 R Senators and Congressman, Mitt Romney was THE ONLY ONE to vote to convict/impeach Trump.”

Yes, I do “think of it.” And I think I know what it means. “ONLY ONE” senator, along with ONE congressman who was effectively kicked out of the Republican Party for having similar courage, dared to put convictions, personal integrity, and his honest beliefs about the well-being of the country above his petty political careerism and rah-rah tribalism.

I think about that sort of thing every day. And it’s the reason I have been saying, in writing and in person, that the United States as founded is over, and has been over since the day Barack Obama won re-election a month after Benghazi. The American electorate, en masse, on “both sides,” is willing to allow itself to be represented by men of no principle and no character.

Daren Jonescu (ad8e67) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:42 am

AHEM… Whatever happened to the forty pages of Lisa Page and Andrew McCabe text messages that Catherine Herridge noted nine months ago? Herridge only published four of the pages in March 2019.
Why are the Lisa Page and Peter Strzok text messages still redacted two years after their original release (December 1st, 2017)?
Where’s the release of the Susan Rice inauguration day memo to the file?
Why didn’t the DOJ/FBI release all of the Bruce Ohr 302’s without redaction? Will those fully unredacted 302’s be part of the IG report release?
Where’s the unredacted David Archey FBI declarations that were previously ordered to be released by a DC judge?
The Mueller investigation ended 10 months ago. Why are we still not able to see the unredacted three authorization memos that Rosenstein gave to the special counsel on May 17th, August 2nd and October 20th, 2017?
mittens brothers in crime. Burisma is just around the corner. Sturdy oak branch and some hemp rope is all we need to stop the insanity.

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:47 am

This thread was getting most tedious (perhaps it is the appearance of “new” trolls) for me until this exchange caught my attention:

I wish, but he won’t. His principles extend to loyalty to his party, as worm-raddled as it may have become. Besides, with his older brother’s daughter as chairwoman of the RNC, he would never eat an unburned tuna casserole at home or at family gatherings ever again.

nk (1d9030) — 2/5/2020 @ 7:34 pm

He should announce and then offer to drop out for payment. See how far he can take this corruption thing they’ve got going.
Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:17 pm

I don’t know why, but two good comments, together,make the difference to me. You two guys have lightened my mood, and I can now enjoy some of the more reasoned rancor of my favorite commenters.

If others would inject a little more respect into the formulation of their comments, this place would be an oasis for readers. I will endeavor to do my part.

felipe (023cc9) — 2/6/2020 @ 4:25 am

Patterico (115b1f) — 2/5/2020 @ 8:23 pm

I know (I really do!) a good Exorcist if it comes down to it.

felipe (023cc9) — 2/6/2020 @ 4:28 am

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:47 am

I am vexed by unanswered questions, mg.

felipe (023cc9) — 2/6/2020 @ 4:35 am

lurker (d8c5bc) — 2/6/2020 @ 2:24 am

Ah, the classic how dare you, have you no sham comment.

Did you watch Romney’s speech?

Yes

do you doubt Romney felt compelled to cast the vote he did by his duty to speak truth before God?

I don’t think Romney makes a distinction between his decisions and what God wants him to do. But it’s in that order. I wouldn’t be at all surprised by finding out he has an advisor that gave him a focus group analysis for the amount of time to pause. You want to look choked up but not so far that it looks like you can’t exercise gentlemanly control. The single perfect man tear requires careful timing.

do you make a regular practice of questioning the sincerity of people’s religious commitments

We’ve had several posts doing just that for evangelicals. Wrapping yourself in faith might actually be worse than wrapping yourself in the flag.

frosty (f27e97) — 2/6/2020 @ 4:58 am

I finally watched the video linked. Thank you, Patterico. I now know that Romney took his vote seriously. We, all, should take important decisions this seriously. I laud Romney. Had Obama been impeached, I believe he would have done no less.

It is hard to endure the praise of goodness coming from the wicked. It is not unlike the brave receiving deserved praise from the cowardly; sure, it is nice to hear, but he would prefer the coward follow his example. Expecting a just result from the unjust was unrealistic.

I say Heaven does not rejoice over the damnation of the wicked, but their conversion.

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. – Lk 15:7

felipe (023cc9) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:03 am

I just finished an excellent biography of Washington. I was somewhat surprised to learn that there were really poisonous things written about him by really vile Americans during his two terms as POTUS.

I guess it goes to show that human nature can suck at any era, and really small and toxic people will always be around to tear down the good and courageous.

I don’t just understand Romney’s vote, I salute him for it.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:28 am

Principles in politics? Seriously? Pardon me while I try to stop laughing. The naivety of those who think principles have any place in politics knows neither history nor reality. Politics is simply about power – who rules whom. “Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.” –Ambrose Bierce

Horatio (805f23) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:31 am

An op-ed appearing today in The Hill:

Nancy Pelosi should resign
BY JONATHAN TURLEY

…

an utter disgrace. First, Pelosi dropped the traditional greeting before the start of the address, “Members of Congress, I have the high privilege and distinct honor of presenting to you the president of the United States.” Instead, she simply announced, “Members of Congress, the president of the United States.” It was extremely petty and profoundly inappropriate. Putting aside the fact that this is not her tradition, but that of the House, it is no excuse to note that the president was impeached.

Such an indignity was not imposed on President Clinton during his own impeachment proceeding, and anyone respecting due process would note that Trump has been accused, not convicted, at this point in the constitutional process. Pelosi proceeded to repeatedly shake her head, mouth words to others, and visibly disagree with the address. It was like some distempered distracting performance art behind the president.

…

Indeed, House Speakers have been the authority who kept other members in silent deference and respect, if not to the president, then to the office. However, Pelosi appeared to goad the mob, like a high schooler making mad little faces behind the school principal at an assembly. It worked, as members protested and interrupted Trump. Pelosi became another Democratic leader, little more than a twitching embodiment of this age of rage.

Patterico makes hay out of the fact that Trump didn’t shake Pelosi’s hand despite him turning away at that moment, focused on giving his speech, and it being 50/50 he didn’t even notice that (nk suspects he didn’t notice).

Since who insulted whom first seems to be important to Patterico, you’d think he would want to update his post with the fact Nancy Pelosi violated decorum and was rude before Trump (maybe) did.

Also, Trump may well have been aware of Pelosi’s initial and egregious breach of decorum as not only has he delivered three SOTU addresses himself, he will have watched a few dozen of them over his life and, what’s more, been briefed by his staff.

At worst, in a brief moment while turning around, if he noticed it, he didn’t shake her hand… immediately after she’d insulted him and the office of the Presidency.

Pelosi, on the other hand, started with disrespecting both her office and his, continued to do so throughout his speech, pre-ripped the SOTU, then ripped it dramatically, showing disrespect to his office, her office, and the great and sometimes suffering people mentioned in the speech, both those present in the audience and those not.

How Patterico thinks these two sets of behaviors, Trump’s and Pelosi’s, are even close to equivalient is something I genuinely do not understand.

Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:32 am

See what I mean?

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:33 am

Is some comrades truly have impression that the comrades here dislike Democrats less than we dislike the orange deviant or only pretend to have that impression to use as ad hominem straw man?

nk (1d9030) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:43 am

I’m not saying you’re fans of Nancy Pelosi.

However, the point Professor Turley makes is valid if the point Patterico made in his post was valid. Aside from Nancy Pelosi’s disrespect being more and worse and to the institution of both the Presidency and the joint session of Congress, she did, literally, start it.

And, as you pointed out, Trump may not have even noticed her attempt to shake his hand in the moment. If he had noticed, he would probably also have noticed it came immediately after she broke with protocol and disrespected him and his office a moment before.

That matters and Patterico’s “Trump Supporters Pretend to Be Aghast at Pelosi Ripping Up the State of the Union Speech” post should reflect that, after it made this point:

Pelosi’s action was both understandable after Trump refused to shake her hand at the beginning of the evening […]

At any rate, I somehow placed my comment about J.T.’s op-ed under the wrong post in error and will place it under the above correct post, then get on with the remainder of my morning, G-d willing!

Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/6/2020 @ 5:51 am

I was tempted to go to your blog earlier, and then I thought “he will just be saying Orange Man bad and showing love to Mitt Romney.”

Then I did, and of course, you are showing love to Mitt Romney because you and he agree that Orange Man is very, very bad.

I commend you on being principled and consistent.

Jonathan K. Smith (9570eb) — 2/6/2020 @ 6:34 am

The nastiness of Trump gets full expression at national prayer breakfast.

It’s just who he is…

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 7:24 am

Our esteemed host wrote:

Mr Romney complained about the President’s character, but this documented behavior sure more like two-faced opportunism than principle to me.

That’s lovely, but 1) you openly don’t care about principle and 2) you therefore have zero standing to complain about anyone’s alleged lack of principle.

Your first point is true enough, but as for the second, I was merely pointing out that your commenters and your admiration for Mr Romney’s principles is somewhat misplaced.

Indeed, Mr Romney’s principles, over time, seem to match those of President Trump: take whatever positions are necessary to advance his own goals. Heck, I’ll say that, to some extent, they even match my principles, with one exception: I always tell the truth.

The Dana in Kentucky (bb405a) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:42 am

115. That’s just it — as a NeverTrumper(TM), I can’t figure out which of his goals are advanced by going against Trump. In fact, if we are to use history as our guide, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush both famously stuck up for Nixon during the Watergate scandal. Others who didn’t were left in the dust politically speaking. I’m not sure what Romney has to gain by this, but then again, I’m usually not sure what Trump has to gain with his behavior and Trump manages to surprise me fairly regularly.

Gryph (08c844) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:44 am

Munroe wrote:

Of course, Mitt didn’t actually want that Sec of State job.

According to CNN, he stated otherwise:

Romney ‘would have accepted’ secretary of state job under Trump
By Theodore Schleifer, CNN | Updated 5:40 PM ET, Fri June 9, 2017

Park City, Utah (CNN)Mitt Romney revealed Friday he was serious enough about becoming President Donald Trump’s secretary of state that he spoke to Hillary Clinton about the post — and that Trump’s general election opponent encouraged him to take it.

In a previously unreported conversation, Romney mentioned that he spoke with Clinton, a fellow Trump critic on the other side of the aisle — during the time he was being considered for the top diplomat job.

“I spoke with virtually all the former secretaries of state,” Romney said here at the Experts and Enthusiasts, or E2, Summit, which brings together high-profile Republicans who are close to Romney. “I spoke with Secretary Clinton, and in each case, each of them said: ‘Please, please take that job,’ if it’s offered to you. We would very much like to see you serve in that capacity.”

Clinton was secretary of state during President Barack Obama’s first term and lost to Trump in the 2016 election, and the conversation between her and Romney would have taken place when the wounds from the presidential race remained raw.

The former Massachusetts governor and Republican presidential nominee said that he was “shocked” to receive the invitation to be considered in the first place. Romney recalled receiving a call out of the blue from Vice President-elect Mike Pence when Romney was golfing in Hawaii, asking if he’d like to be considered.

“I would have accepted the job had he asked me to do it,” he said.

If Hillary Clinton encouraged Mr Romney to take the job if offered, it’s a good thing it wasn’t offered to him.

The Dana in Kentucky (bb405a) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:51 am

Gryph wrote:

I’m not sure what Romney has to gain by this, but then again, I’m usually not sure what Trump has to gain with his behavior and Trump manages to surprise me fairly regularly.

It is my opinion that it’s just personal with Mr Romney. He ran on his principles and lost to President Obama, when the official U-3 unemployment rate was 7.7%, while the real, U-6, unemployment rate stood at 14.4%, but Mr Trump, [insert slang term for the rectum here] that he is, won a presidential campaign that he was supposedly guaranteed to lose. Then Mr Trump dangled the Secretary of State job in front of him, but chose someone else instead.

He may be thinking that this is his only term as Senator, given that he will be 77 years old by the time he would have to run for re-election. Heck, he might even be fantasizing that Joe Biden would pick him as the vice presidential nominee, for all I know.

The Dana in Kentucky (bb405a) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:06 am

Gryph (08c844) — 2/6/2020 @ 8:44 am

I can’t figure out which of his goals are advanced by going against Trump.

There are a couple of ways to get the really good graft. The best might be the bipartisan graft. For that, it’s important to signal that you are flexible and willing to reach across the aisle to dip your paws in any open cookie jars.

frosty (f27e97) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:16 am

118. On that:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/476280-biden-would-consider-republican-for-vp-but-i-cant-think-of-one-right-now

Biden made the comment while speaking to voters in New Hampshire on Monday, after a woman told the former vice president he’d “have to pull out all the stops” to beat Trump if he’s the nominee, adding that her 21-year-old son wondered if Biden would consider picking a Republican running mate, according to CNN.

“The answer is I would, but I can’t think of one now,” Biden replied. He was met with audible laughs from the crowd.

“No I’m serious, here’s what I mean. Let me explain that,” Biden said. “You know there’s some really decent Republicans that are out there still, but here’s the problem right now … they’ve got to step up.”

I think Mitt Romney was concerned with his reputation, aeveral years from now and longer, among his grandchildren’s friends.

My vote will likely be in the minority in the Senate. But irrespective of these things, with my vote, I will tell my children and their children that I did my duty to the best of my ability, believing that my country expected it of me. I will only be one name among many, no more or less, to future generations of Americans who look at the record of this trial. They will note merely that I was among the senators who determined that what the President did was wrong, grievously wrong.

Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/6/2020 @ 9:29 am

The Dispatch compiled the Senators statements about removal/acquittal and put them in four easy categories:
1. Trump did something wrong, but didn’t justify removal: 18
2. Trump did something wrong and should go: 1
3. The Kool-Aid drinkers who said that Trump did nothing wrong: 19
4. The Cowards, with a capital “C”: 16
It’s noteworthy that two-thirds of the Republicans in the Senate are pu$$ies and hacks.

Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 2/6/2020 @ 10:00 am

Michael Barbaro
@mikiebarb
·
On today’s Daily: Mitt Romney’s defection. In the hours before he voted to convict Trump, Romney sat with @MarkLeibovich for a candid an emotional interview. It’s a powerful listen: https://nytimes.com/2020/02/06/podcasts/
__ _

Ben Smith
@BuzzFeedBen
Romney’s media plan around this is really a wonder to behold
__ _

Ken Meyer
@Kcmeyer6971
·
It was so moving that we don’t care about the binders full of women and his taxes anymore.
__ _

bsquared
@bsquare68027934
·
Haha. He thinks he has a shot in 2024. Not a chance pal. Establishment is dead
__ _

LaVal
@rlaval2010
·
It’s too bad he can’t drink cocktails at all the parties he is going to be invited to.
__ _

harkin (d6cfee) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:38 am

harkin, we can find all the bullshit we might ever want to be exposed to on our own.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 11:41 am

harkin, we can find all the bullspit we might ever want to be exposed to on our own.

Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/6/2020 @ 12:25 pm

washington post will soon have a front page story on what an austere religious scholar mittens is

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 2:34 pm

Romney had nothing to lose and regarding “status” from the Right People, much to gain. He won’t be up for reelection until November 2024. No “profile in courage” whatsoever.

DN (095be6) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:36 pm

had a sharp pain in the back today, had to turn around to make sure it wasn’t mittens

mg (8cbc69) — 2/6/2020 @ 3:54 pm

2/5/2020

Romney: Trump Is Guilty

127 Responses to “Romney: Trump Is Guilty”

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