Patterico's Pontifications

1/28/2020

TV Elites Unforgivably Laugh at Stupid People

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:56 am



This clip is making the rounds among conservatives. Like Hillary’s “deplorables” comment or Obama’s “cling to guns or religion” gaffe, it’s a perfect flashpoint for regler fokes across the nation to decry how they’re mocked by the elites:

One non-elite person who is highly offended and not in a fake outrage way either but a totally serious way is … Ivanka Trump:

I totally agree. After all, what kind of total asshole mocks Southern people for their accents?

I’m of two minds about this.

First of all, mocking people as stupid because they have a Southern accent is an ignorant thing to do. There are plenty of very, very intelligent people who speak with a Southern, or Texas (I think they’re a little different) accent. There are people in this comment section who have Southern or Texas accents who are smarter than Rick Wilson or Don Lemon or Wajahat Ali — or Mike Pompeo or Donald or Ivanka Trump. Count on it. My father in law, who was born in South Texas and has spent most of his life in Louisville (properly pronounced LEWuhvill, and the “uh” is barely pronounced) is one of the smartest and most well read people I have ever met. Personally, I think I have a slight Texas accent myself (some of you have heard me speak and can tell me whether I’m imagining it or not) and I don’t think I’m stupid.

But second of all, Wilson is (while painting with way too broad a brush) right in the clip about a lot of things. First: he is right that Donald Trump could not find Ukraine on a map if his life depended on it (and I would watch a movie in which his life did depend on it). Wilson is correct that “this is an administration defined by ignorance of the world.” What the panel is discussing in the above clip is Pompeo’s insistence that the regler fokes out there don’t care about Ukraine. Pompeo was quoted by an NPR reporter as asking: “You think Americans care about Ukraine?” (Pompeo has contested aspects of the NPR reporter’s claim, but to my knowledge, he has not contested this quote — and to the extent that objective evidence exists to determine who is telling the truth as to the aspect he does contest, that evidence supports the reporter and not him.) Pompeo thinks nobody cares. And maybe a lot of people don’t. But the President should. And the Secretary of State should. And they should care about Ukraine as more than simply a crowbar they can use to bludgeon Joe Biden into submission.

Wilson goes on to say “That’s partly him playing to their base and playing to their audience, you know, the credulous boomer rube demo that backs Donald Trump, that wants to think that [adopts Southern accent] ‘Donald Trump’s the smart one and y’all elitists are dumb.'” It’s a bad look because of the accent mocking. But here again, he has a point — although it is ridiculously overbroad and ensnares far too many sensible people in its net.

I have never said, and likely never will say, that people are dumb or ignorant or immoral simply because they have said they support Donald Trump. There are plenty of reasons to vote for him that are arguably sensible: judges, immigration, taxes, and regulation come to mind. Anyone who recognizes that he is dishonest, ignorant, impulsive, narcissistic, and so forth, but supports him anyway as a better alternative to the Dems … that’s not someone I am going to mock or condemn.

But someone who thinks that Donald Trump is “the smart one” is either seriously deluded, monumentally ignorant, or some combination of the two. I’m most of the way through “A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump’s Testing of America” by Philip Rucker and Carol Leonnig. It’s one of several books I have read about Trump’s administration. The man constantly makes sudden decisions that contradict his administration’s policy and make no sense, based on a false narrative fed to him by someone on Fox News. He is laughably incurious and unserious and self-obsessed. He is most certainly not “the smart one” — and anyone who thinks he is, is mockable.

So sure, get all Outraged at Rick Wilson if you like. He painted all Trump supporters with too broad a brush and mocked Southern accents in a way that only Donald Trump is allowed to do. But let’s not pretend he didn’t have a point in there somewhere. If we’re being honest.

148 Responses to “TV Elites Unforgivably Laugh at Stupid People”

  1. What was that popular T-shirt? “Trump 2020 – F*** your feelings.”

    Congresscritters getting conservalove for mocking safe spaces with armed security around them.

    People voting Trump because someone mocked their accent.

    I’d say that what we appear to have here is a failure of empathy, but I’m really having trouble getting past the blistering pettiness.

    Do we ever get the government we deserve.

    john (cd2753)

  2. I think you have a Fort Worth accent.

    DRJ (15874d)

  3. Just like Hillary’s comments, generally true sure, but not something you say out loud. Because, the overlap of well educated southern moderate/unaffiliated is a demo you need to win elections. Lewvul, Nashvul, are a good example, they’re in the dirty south, but are fairly purple. You’ve not going to pull the state, but it can move congress, or gov races. Talking down to people open to you is silly.

    Despite the comment being generally true. I see the same happening with southern repubs too talking about the rust belt or California. Hence, republican elected officials are an endangered species in Cali.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  4. ‘But someone who thinks that Donald Trump is “the smart one” is either seriously deluded, monumentally ignorant, or some combination of the two.’

    I’m sure there might be someone, somewhere, who has claimed this. But, more than likely it’s confined to a single dude named Mr. Straw Man.

    It’s hard to definitively call out this clip because it requires taking an anti-elitist pose, which for Trump critics means disavowing the pose of the past three years.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  5. “You think Americans care about Ukraine?”

    The people who care about the ambassadr=or being fired, or maybe the way and the reason she was fired, don’t care about that because they are about Ukraine. That should be obvious.

    Pompeo has a problem because he was trying to get around Trump’s occasional or more stupidities and Trump probably doesn’t realize that. Pompeo was even trying to avoid there being a news story that would mention that he was visiting Ukraine while Bill Taylor was still there. Because Pompeo chose Taylor to replace Yovanovich bt did not try to name him ambassador so he wouldn’t need Trump;s knowledge or approval.

    How many times did Trump try to fire the ambassador? The answer seems to be, three or four. He was already doing that on that tape in April 2018 (and Lev Parnas says that the message to get rid of her was not addressed to him but to some aide whose name I didn’t catch and don’t know.)

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  6. It’s probably very pertinent to point out that Wilson qualifies,not merely as a Southerner, but as a Cracker. He was born in Florida*, and lives in (or near) Tallahassee. In other words he’s from the part of Florida where they really speak with a true drawl, and where people who were not Seminoles were living when that big argument broke out in 1861. [Unlike me, not born here and living in the part of Florida that has much more of New York and the Caribbean than anything Southern.]

    *Wikipedia gives circumstancial evidence: a tweet in which he said his mother met JFK in Tampa three days before he was born (and four days before JFK was assasinated).

    kishnevi (496414)

  7. “I’m sure there might be someone, somewhere, who has claimed this. But, more than likely it’s confined to a single dude named Mr. Straw Man.”

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/479815-is-donald-trump-one-of-the-smartest-presidents-in-us-history

    I see these arguments made all the time, even on these very forums.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  8. The man constantly makes sudden decisions that contradict his administration’s policy and make no sense, based on a false narrative fed to him by someone on Fox News.

    Then he reverses himself, after hearing from others at least three times, but not on the same or adjacent days.

    Or he may decide to do something, like order the death of Soleimani, after hearing the same thing advised from different people on at least three different, but not adjacent, days. It’s like he;s not really sure what to do.

    He is laughably incurious and unserious and self-obsessed. He is most certainly not “the smart one”

    That’s not the idea the Democrats are selling. They want him to be the man in charge of everything.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  9. The problem is that Trump thinks he’s not just smart, but the smartest person in any room. When, I couldn’t imagine a room not full of his kids that he’s not the dumbest one. Eric is always the dumbest in any room, new puppy, smarter than Eric.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  10. That’s not the idea the Democrats are selling. They want him to be the man in charge of everything.

    That’s why the 25th amendment solution should have been exercised on Jan 21st 2017. Mentally incompetent. None of the judicial bits that have happened, wouldn’t have been true under Pence, and the last 3 years wouldn’t have happened.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  11. Davethulhu (fab944) — 1/28/2020 @ 8:31 am

    Mr. Thulhu, thanks for that, but don’t you think that’s an appeal to “smart” as in street smarts or outsmarting the opposition as opposed to “smart” as in being able to find a country on a map?

    Munroe (dd4ac5)

  12. What’s so elite about these three clowns? I don’t even know who they are.

    nk (1d9030)

  13. BTW, did Trump thank CNN yet for giving him, and Southern Republicans, a ready-made campaign ad?

    nk (1d9030)

  14. Munroe (dd4ac5) — 1/28/2020 @ 8:42 am

    Streetsmarts would include the ability to know one of the following four things

    1 where the country is on the map
    2 when to admit that you don’t know where it is on the map if you don’t know
    3 when to evade the question so nobody know whether or not you know where it is on the map
    4 when to make people believe you don’t know where it is on the map even though you do

    Trump sometimes can do the first, and possibly the fourth. He seems completely unable to do the second or third.

    I think Sarah Palin made a specialty of number 4. Which is why I think of here as a faux-populist.

    kishnevi (496414)

  15. It’s hard to definitively call out this clip because it requires taking an anti-elitist pose, which for Trump critics means disavowing the pose of the past three years.

    I’ve never taken an anti-anti-elitist pose (as I’m not exactly an “elite” myself).

    My pose is against the notion that Trump’s extreme arrogance is anti-elitist.

    And against the supposedly smart people — including many who are more elite that I — who have in fact taken the position that Trump is much smarter and wiser than he regularly sounds, and acts.
    And against the people who claim to care about honesty and integrity if someone else is the subject, but give Trump a comprehensive indulgence for his gross dishonesty and selfishness.

    My pose is against the people who says it’s “deranged” to speak the obvious truth about Donald Trrump.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  16. First of all, mocking people as stupid because they have a Southern accent is an ignorant thing to do. There are plenty of very, very intelligent people who speak with a Southern, or Texas (I think they’re a little different) accent.

    I had a boss who was a really sharp guy. He was from Mississippi, and he had a pretty pronounced Southern drawl. He told me once that he liked talking to customers from the north because they immediately assumed he was some dumb rube, and that way he “could sneak up on them.”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  17. Just a reminder:

    I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  18. First: he is right that Donald Trump could not find Ukraine on a map if his life depended on it (and I would watch a movie in which his life did depend on it).

    I would love to watch this too, just to see President Trump bluster and try to talk his way out of the assignment. “I don’t need to point it out on the map. Ukraine is a great country. Just great. I have an outstanding relationship with President Zelensky. Absolutely outstanding. If you asked him, he would tell you. Great country.”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  19. One of my friends, and old boss was the ex-pres of UK, Lee Todd, invented . Faily deep Kentucky southern accent, and absolutely the smartest guy I personally know. Ph.D from MIT, he literally invented some of the things that make web conferencing a thing today. Put his millions to work for UK in a way that is far from normal. Sounds like a hick, was a hick, also a literal genius.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  20. Jeez, you shouldn’t put down your phone and try to complete a thought later, that first sentence just seemed to wander off…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  21. @17. Yes, ‘just a reminder’ – 400 Bostonian Yankees w/New England accents are far superior… aren’t they. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. As a Born in Boston complete with basic Boston accent…..of course we are superior :)

    kishnevi (496414)

  23. #17 — Buckley didn’t think well of Donald Trump.
    And if you take the first 400 people in the phone book, you might have a few who are as ignorant and dishonest as Trump, but the great majority would be better.
    Also, Trump likes to boast about his fancy degree, and he thinks the most elite Ivy credentials are necessary for a Supreme Court justice.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  24. Trump would never be my “phone a friend” on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.

    Therefore, he would make a terrible president I guess.

    Would Ken Jennings accept the nomination?

    Munroe (dd4ac5)

  25. What’s so elite about these three clowns? I don’t even know who they are.

    nk (1d9030) — 1/28/2020 @ 8:47 am

    yeah, I thought Rick Wilson was the actor Jonathan Banks at first. True Florida crackers are almost as inbred (ok, afflicted with a shallow gene pool/limited prospects for partners) as pre-British white South Africans and bush Australians.

    But keep in mind, to win MiPaWiOhIa and solidy the New Yawk refugees elsewhere, you couldnt be an exclusively Southern/Evangelical Christian party, you needed somebody willing to mock the south in your ranks also.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  26. Trump would never be my “phone a friend” on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.

    Not true. Don Junior was on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. He is stumped the question: “Which bird does not build its own nest?” To make a long story short, he calls his father who tells him, emphatically: “The cuckoo.” Don Junior asks: “Dad, are you sure?” Trump tells him: “I’m positive. It’s the cuckoo. Cuckoos don’t build nests.” So Don Junior gives “the cuckoo” as his final answer, and of course it was the right answer.

    Afterwards, he calls him father to thank him: “Dad”, he says, “you’re a genius!” And Trump says: “What genius? Everybody knows cuckoos live in clocks.”

    nk (1d9030)

  27. This clip is insulting, which is a shame because so many of Trumps supporters appear extremely sensitive to insult and likely to be hurt by this.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  28. There are plenty of reasons to vote for him [Trump] that are arguably sensible: judges, immigration, taxes, and regulation come to mind.

    Taxes? Really?

    Google “Patterico opposes Trump tax cut” and count the opposing posts. Not exactly a warm embrace of our Captain’s tax policies. Or maybe it’s an accent issue and ‘taxes’ really pronounced ‘Texas.’ 😉

    All kidding aside, railing against Trump for three years then going a-la-carte w/Trump policies seems less a matter of ‘sensibility’ and more a matter of ‘acceptance’ – the last stage of grief. A broken clock is right twice a day thing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Watchdog
    @LibWatchdog
    This one Twitter clip of the CNN segment has 6.8 million views in under 15 hours. That’s over 6 million more people than those who watched it on CNN.

    Congrats on finally getting some viewers CNN 😂😂
    __ _

    Hey, I saw that same network on the airport monitor!
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  30. I’ll just point this out, friends, with gentleness and respect:

    “Whoever fights with monsters should see to it that he does not become a monster in the process. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.”

    Do not become the things you say you hate in opposing any thing or any person.

    I am not pointing a finger at anyone. It’s a normal reaction, and something that we must ALL fight.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  31. He told me once that he liked talking to customers from the north because they immediately assumed he was some dumb rube, and that way he “could sneak up on them.”

    I was in West Virginia a few decades back, deep in coal-mining country, and a fella told me, “Just ’cause we talk slow, don’t mean we’re stupid.” And he was right.
    Regarding Rick Wilson, he throws a lot of verbal hand grenades out there and he’s generally funny, but making invidious overgeneralizations about a bloc of supporters is poor strategy.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  32. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/480292-trump-praises-pompeo-over-handling-of-npr-reporter-you-did-a-good-job

    Trump recognized Pompeo as “our great secretary of State” during remarks announcing his administration’s Middle East peace plan alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House, before referencing his clash with the NPR reporter unprompted.

    “That’s impressive. That was very impressive,” Trump said, commenting on the applause that Pompeo received from the crowd when he said his name. “That reporter couldn’t have done too good a job on you yesterday. I think you did a good job on her, actually.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  33. @12. What’s so elite about these three clowns? I don’t even know who they are.

    CNN’s Don Lemon is from Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Rick Wilson is a Republican political strategist, media consultant, and author based in Florida… a frequent guest on political panel shows during the 2016 United States presidential election, where he aired serial denunciations of Donald Trump and his supporters. He was later a strategist for the Evan McMullin presidential campaign. Wajahat Ali is a Pakistani-American journalist, television host, and a lawyer– perhaps from Southern Pakistan, y’all. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. “Just ’cause we talk slow, don’t mean we’re stupid.”

    Which is pretty much the same thing folks in Connecticut, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania say to New Yorkers every day. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. TV Elites Unforgivably Laugh at Stupid People

    All the way to the bank:

    Gilligan’s Island still finds an audience and is still being aired– 53 years after it ceased production.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. @33. Thanks. So about as elite as my daughter’s manicurist but not as elite as my barber (he’s licensed to use a straight razor on bare skin).

    nk (1d9030)

  37. So Trump, from New York City, thinks Southerners are dumb and Texans are grifters who make money off hurricanes … and some Republicans think he understands them?

    The Democrats felt that way about Clinton but at least Bill actually had a non-elite upbringing. Trump’s childhood was privileged and his life has been devoted to being an elite.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. Rick Wilson
    @TheRickWilson

    Has CNN pulled Don Lemon off the astrophysics beat to cover the missing #AirAsia flight?

    7:23 AM · Dec 28, 2014
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  39. We still can’t help ourselves can we? More piling on of Trump supporters as if you really know anything. For every hick Trump supporter I can find an Obama “free phone” gal. There are a lot of ignorant or flat out stupid people who vote for any candidate. The elite only think that voters of the other guy are rubes, completely ignoring the rubes that voted for their guy.

    I say that your ignorance and prejudice says far more about you than Trump or Trump supporter (or any other candidate and their supporter. Patterico has it right. Supporters may have very logical and intelligent reasons for their votes. Maybe YOU are the idiot, can’t say, won’t say.

    Lots of reasons to dislike Trump. I think his intelligence is misuderestimated(C). Sure he brags a ton, but that is par for the course for people in his sphere as evidenced by Barak “I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m a better political director than my political director.” Obama, who many felt WAS the most intelligent person to ever be president.

    However, I judge results. I think there are many kinds of intelligence. I am analytical and do really good with Sudoku, but I am a disaster when dealing with personal relations. People call me intelligent cause I have a decent IQ and got good scores on the Grad school tests. There are people less intelligent than I am who are more successful, and I think they have an intelligence that is not measured on tests. Some people just do things right and no one can point a finger at exactly how or why.

    Obama, for all his “intelligence” was wrong about substantive things and did a lot of things poorly. Trump, is considered an idiot but seems to get a lot of things right.* People say he does everything all wrong and yet maybe his instincts are right. He keeps lots of promises and gets things done. I’ll take that kind of idiocy any day.

    As I said before, I don’t like the vehicle, but I like where it’s going.

    *Clearly people will have disagreements on the “rightness” of any political issue, such as economics, trade, diplomacy, etc. Some will love everything Obama did and think it right, some will love Trump’s accomplishments. We can rarely win those arguments, too many moving parts.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  40. My very simple IQ Test: Is Trump smarter than you?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  41. Now, one can support Trump for all kinds of reasons, even if they think he’s dumb as a post. Perhaps there was a credible candidate who wanted to upend the status quo, but the last one I remember was Gingrich (LOTS smarter than Trump) and he wasn’t running in 2016.

    So, it was Trump or more of the same Left/Right struggle in the same narrow range. There is a lot to be said for Trump’s outside-the-box direction. It would ahve been better if a more capable, honest and/or focused person had led the charge. But this is an imperfect world.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  42. BTW, the Democrats “get” that the electorate was upset with the status quo. They just mistake the nature of the change that is wanted. Hint: not MORE government.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  43. But this is an imperfect world.

    It can be better if we expect more.

    DRJ (15874d)

  44. Of course Republicans wanted MORE government. They want it helping their side. Us vs Them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. TW, the Democrats “get” that the electorate was upset with the status quo. They just mistake the nature of the change that is wanted. Hint: not MORE government.

    Kevin M (19357e) — 1/28/2020 @ 11:56 am

    Based on his actions and statements Trump wants more government.
    If there’s a republican that effected less federal government I don’t recall it.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  46. This clip is insulting, which is a shame because so many of Trumps supporters appear extremely sensitive to insult and likely to be hurt by this.

    Yeah…that’s not my observation. From what I have seen, it’s D’s and NeverTrump types who get so upset with Trump supporters that they simply CANNOT have them in their lives anymore. They must MUST MUST MUST be cast out…or banned. Banning works. Because Trump fans are so sensitive.

    PTw (894877)

  47. Who has been banned from Ace, Insty, and Red State?

    DRJ (15874d)

  48. …the last one I remember was Gingrich

    Newt Gingrich, Moon President:

    https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sci-fi-cold-open/n13372

    “May Divorce Be With You…”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. Do not become the things you say you hate in opposing any thing or any person.

    I am not pointing a finger at anyone. It’s a normal reaction, and something that we must ALL fight.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 1/28/2020 @ 10:12 am

    LOL I deleted my comment because of this one.

    But I will say: PTW, you’re not banned! Everyone knows the comments are better with folks who agree with you arguing with folks who agree with me. It takes something else than POV to get banned. Naturally, most of the people crossing the line came here angrily disagreeing, but that doesn’t mean the disagreement itself was the problem.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  50. Who has been banned from Ace, Insty, and Red State?

    Ooh, ooh, ooh, can I take a guess? Same people who are banned from Patterico? People who are rude and disrepectful and call other people names, often the host of the site?

    Never understood people thinking they could crap in the living room of their host and still demand respect.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  51. Who has been banned from Ace, Insty, and Red State?

    DRJ (15874d) — 1/28/2020 @ 12:17 pm

    I’ve been banned from Ace for a totally respectful comment that lamented and questioned specific and truthful things that Ace does not want anyone to talk about at his blog. That wasn’t viewpoint discrimination either… that was just shameful though. Red state is pretty notorious for viewpoint control. Do people read Instapundit anymore? It’s really boring now.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  52. Same people who are banned from Patterico? People who are rude and disrepectful and call other people names, often the host of the site?

    Never understood people thinking they could crap in the living room of their host and still demand respect.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72) — 1/28/2020 @ 12:24 pm

    Good point.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  53. Never understood people thinking they could crap in the living room of their host and still demand respect.

    You’ve never hosted Bill O’Reilly, Tucka Carlson, Laura Ingraham or Sean Hannity on your living room TeeVee, have you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. Trump’s childhood was privileged and his life has been devoted to being an elite.

    Trump probably decided to exploit resentment of elites because he could never quite get into the rarified circles he wanted to be in. But it’s hard to understand how someone who constantly declares himself richer and smarter and better than all others could be seen as deeply empathetic with average people — i.e. the ones he wouldn’t hesitate to call “stupid losers” if it served him.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  55. @46, It’s OK to acknowledge when you’re sensitive to insult. If you’re genuinely not that’s fine but you don’t need to deflect.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  56. Pretty hard to get banned from Ace. Though there’s a heavy jerk contingent there of some people easily upset, there are hundreds of comments per post and bannings are very rare. Just don’t mention the BK thing that AIUI P was a victim of as well. Insty has hundreds of comments from a much wider range of characters than here. I have no idea what the RedState scenario is but AIUI as well, P used to write there but he was cut loose due to editorial decision. Are NT’s banned there or are you counting that as a “banning”?

    And speaking of sensitive…I simply mention banning, go away for 15 minutes, come back and there’s a half dozen objections to the idea that they ever happen. Yet in the short time I’ve been here I’ve seen people banned for the most minor of transgressions. Transgressions which NT’s here are rarely if ever checked on. Heck, even the original postings here are often rife with insults to those with other points of view. From what I’ve read on other blogs…and actually part of what drew me here in the first place, is this place has quite the reputation for casting people out. Recently someone here linked back to the Sandman post (or one of the Sandman posts, I doubt there was just one) and I was struck by the fact that there seemed to be double the number of different commentors. Certainly every other one wasn’t DCSCA.

    PTw (894877)

  57. Pretty hard to get banned from Ace.

    It’s very hard to get banned for saying racist or crude stuff, sure. It’s very easy to get banned for asking Ace to please explain why he settled with Brett Kimberlin.

    Go ahead and put this to the test!

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  58. I was struck by the fact that there seemed to be double the number of different commentors. Certainly every other one wasn’t DCSCA.

    PTw (894877) — 1/28/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    That doesn’t mean they were banned. It could even just be the day of the week or the fun of the posts at the time. Or maybe you didn’t do a scientific analysis (sounds like you’re engaged in confirmation bias).

    And speaking of sensitive…I simply mention banning, go away for 15 minutes, come back and there’s a half dozen objections

    People take freedom seriously. You made an accusation and you are backing it up with basically nothing. I understand you are sensitive to Trump criticism and this has shaped your impression of Trump critics, but it’s not a very good argument.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  59. A trip down memory lane for all the Trump hating Bush defenders, which are legion here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991104/aponline181051_000.htm

    Texas Gov. George W. Bush was hit with a surprise quiz on foreign affairs and scored only 25 percent.

    The Republican presidential front-runner sat down Wednesday with WHDH-TV, the NBC affiliate in Boston, and was asked to name the leaders of four current world hot spots: Chechnya, Taiwan, India and Pakistan.

    He was able to give a partial response to just one: Taiwan.

    That drew immediate criticism from the camp of Democrat Al Gore, which said the vice president could have answered all four correctly.

    “I guess we know that ‘C’ at Yale was a gentleman’s ‘C,'” said Gore spokesman Chris Lehane, referring to the way Bush has described his academic record.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  60. It’s very hard to get banned for saying racist or crude stuff, sure. It’s very easy to get banned for asking Ace to please explain why he settled with Brett Kimberlin.

    Go ahead and put this to the test!

    Yeah. Like what I said about the ONE thing that you’re not supposed to discuss. BK. Because Ace is not a lawyer and thus is in a much harder position to discuss the situation. Something to do with the settlement too, AIUI. Why would you bring such a thing up over there in the first place? It’s EXPLICITLY stated that it’s forbidden, plus it’s ancient history. Though I understand the Jeff G (a NT’er of whom I wasn’t especially a fan) and quite a few other people were quite upset with P over things having something to do with BK. I only know the general facts of the situation and I’m really not interested in the drama. But if you mention P to such people, they get really, really p-o’d about him. AIUI, it was crap all around and BK is something of a terrorist both IRL and legalistically. I can see where such a situation can drive a wedge between otherwise allies. But again, what with all that history, why would you bring up the ONE thing that’s sure to get you banned over there? Was it so you could brag about it? It’s a rather ridiculous comparison.

    And no one has answered my (sort of) question, has anyone been banned from RedState or was that just in reference to P’s situation?

    PTw (894877)

  61. Yeah. Like what I said about the ONE thing that you’re not supposed to discuss. BK. Because Ace is not a lawyer and thus is in a much harder position to discuss the situation

    LOL

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  62. Ah…but Dustin…yes, you were the disingenuous…guy from last week. You’ve demonstrated a few times now that you’re simply not a serious person so let’s just leave things at that, m’k?

    PTw (894877)

  63. @56. I’m offended, y’all!! — Or for the more nautically minded, yawl. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. I’m not trying to sea lion you, but can you expand on this? I’m genuinely curious where you see the double standard.

    Yet in the short time I’ve been here I’ve seen people banned for the most minor of transgressions. Transgressions which NT’s here are rarely if ever checked on.

    One thing I’ve noticed here is that unless you’re being a complete tool too patterico directly the mods don’t seem to get involved unless someone asks them to.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  65. Who has been banned from Ace, Insty, and Red State?

    I was permanently banned from RedState. Apparently, what crossed streiff’s line was my criticism of Trump, two days after the Helsinki debacle, in his failed attempt to walk back his remarks when he said, “Could be other people also; there’s a lot of people out there.”
    Reynolds hasn’t booted me, but he has deleted a handful of my comments. I haven’t been to Ace in years.
    I’m not really sure who WaBlogLog is talking to here, so I assume he’s just howling.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  66. Dustin, if there’s a rule that says ‘don’t talk about BK’ you’re going to get banned if you bring it up.

    I think there’s a zero strike rule here for accusing Pat of acting in his official capacity / bringing his job into disagreements here. Seems fair, if you want to talk about things the host will not you take it elsewhere.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  67. I would have much less problem with media mockery of Southern whites as ignorant, clueless rubes if it were also considered OK to mock other ethnic groups. But it’s not, and shouldn’t be, so I don’t know why it seems to be OK to mock them. Or us, I should say.

    My parents were from Nashville and our roots in Tennessee and Virginia go way back. They grew up in the 1930s and no doubt had many attitudes common to whites of that era. Yet they always taught me never to mock or disparage any person because of their race, or their gender, or because where they were from, or any other thing of that nature. Growing up, I never heard the “n word” or any other ethnic slur in our home and had either I or one of my siblings been so ignorant as to utter it, or any type of slur, the discipline would have been harsh and fast. You might make fun of someone for acting stupid or ignorant, but you didn’t make fun of anyone because of who they were. My parents weren’t liberals — they didn’t talk about racism etc — but brought us up to be as un-racist as they could.

    Yet it’s seemed obvious for years that it was not only OK, but encouraged in the media to make fun of whites from the South. Want an easy shorthand to portray someone as a knuckle-dragging mouth-breather — give’em a Southern accent, call them a cracker. It’s not as if this CNN clip is anything new. This sort of thing didn’t bother me for a long time, but now it does.

    The weird thing is, I don’t have a lot in common culturally with the popular southern stereotypes — I don’t like Nascar, don’t hunt, have never owned a pickup truck. I went to college in DC and LA and barely even say “y’all” especially out here in California where it’s always “you guys.” Yet I’m beyond weary of having people of my family’s background as what seems like the only group it’s considered OK to disparage in public and without consequence. I never wanted to think tribally, as it were, but society nowadays seems to encourage every other group to think tribally, so why not me? Maybe that’s why my mind can agree with Patterico about all of Trump’s shortcomings — the lies, the coarseness, the rudeness, the lack of knowledge and all the rest of it — and yet I still always manage to excuse whatever Trump’s done. On some level, it feels like he sticks up for the tribe I only barely remembered being a member of.

    RL formerly in Glendale (40f5aa)

  68. Southern rural whites being depicted as ignorant, lazy, and sometimes corrupt have populated our culture for decades. Remember Beverly Hillbillies, Dukes of Hazzard, Smokey and the Bandit, anyone. Faulkner’s novels usually focused on characters of that type….

    Kishnevi (94255e)

  69. If you want to understand the American identity, read Emerson, Thoreau and Whitman.

    If you want to understand the American government, read the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

    If you want to understand the South, read Twain, Crane, Faulkner, and Mitchell.

    I once read an article several years ago that argued the South has three things the North does not: character, class and eccentricity. I’ll agree to that, because I’ve personally met Southerners who have character and class, and our eccentrics are the most eccentric of all.

    But if you want to understand Texas, you would have to be born and raised here. Yeah, I know, multiple persons from other states are immigrating here. Two years residency grants then Texas residency. That doesn’t make them Texans.

    It’s a mentality, most people don’t get. Believe me, because I know. I’ve seen license plates from all 50 states, including Alaska and Hawaii. Down here in the Rio Grande Valley. We call them Snow Birds or Winter Texans, it doesn’t matter, they’re travelers. Not Texans, regardless of residency.

    Being a Texan means something. It means a lot. Texas is the “friendly” state, and we welcome all incomers. But there is a difference between living in Texas and being a Texan.

    I suppose that’s the same distinction between living in America and being an American.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  70. You’ve never hosted Bill O’Reilly, Tucka Carlson, Laura Ingraham or Sean Hannity on your living room TeeVee, have you.

    I once had Maddow, but the fumigation costs made me vow never again.

    Really. get some perspective.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  71. Dustin, if there’s a rule that says ‘don’t talk about BK’ you’re going to get banned if you bring it up.

    I think there’s a zero strike rule here for accusing Pat of acting in his official capacity / bringing his job into disagreements here. Seems fair, if you want to talk about things the host will not you take it elsewhere.

    Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/28/2020 @ 1:27 pm

    Ace had a long series of posts on the subject. He, with a few others, removed all of them, making the lawfare tactic potent, and in a way, increasing pressure and focus on the few who refused to take down posts on the subject. Asking Ace why he took the actions he did wasn’t answered… it was deleted. Asking why the comment was deleted led to a ban. This is before any rule about it was posted, if that ever happened at all.

    This is interesting to me because Ace started this series with a stirring comment about Ace’s bravery. “A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once” was how it started. Ace was going to stand with others for free speech, against the intimidation, doxxing, lawfare, etc.

    Many people seem to reference Pat’s job and only get some kind of explanation and warning. They don’t just get instabanned like there’s a scandal being silenced due to a lack of ethics, courage, and integrity, as is the case with Ace.

    Of course Ace spends an awful awful lot of time calling people cucks and cowards. I’ve seen people do that in all walks of life… those guys act like Ace did when the going got tough.

    At any rate, PTW is wrong that it is hard to get banned at Ace’s blog. You only need politely ask about Ace’s most important series of posts.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  72. Ah…but Dustin…yes, you were the disingenuous…guy from last week. You’ve demonstrated a few times now that you’re simply not a serious person so let’s just leave things at that, m’k?

    PTw (894877) — 1/28/2020 @ 1:15 pm

    LOL

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  73. PTW, you made the accusation and instead of backing it up have personally attacked me and making a paranoid and obviously untruthful rant about that accusation.

    Not that I mind in the slightest. This is what it’s like to talk to you guys, so it’s my decision.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  74. I’m not really sure who WaBlogLog is talking to here, so I assume he’s just howling.

    I’m saying respect the host. His/her platform, his/her rules. You don’t have to like it, but if you come into the living room and lay a turd, don’t expect them to let you back in. Even if they were wrong in your opinion, your opinion is valueless. We comment at the pleasure of the host. If they want a certain commentariat, that is their choice. You have no right to demand they discuss any particular topic, nor demand they accept certain points of view nor presentation of that point of view.

    If they don’t want robust debate, then why do you bother wasting your time? Go where your contributions are welcome and don’t badmouth someone for running their house they way they want. Ace, Redstate, Althouse, Patterico, etc. don’t owe you anything.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  75. Kishnevi (94255e) — 1/28/2020 @ 1:49 pm

    I’ll try to avoid revealing my cultural affiliation but having lived in different parts of the country I’ve been surprised to find “southern rural whites” everywhere. There are slight variations in accent and other things, like not being white or southern, but they’re everywhere once you know what to look for.

    frosty (f27e97)

  76. Patterico warns more than once, suspends, warns after the offense is repeated, then eventually bans. Sometimes he recognizes a banned commenter who is using a new name. They get instabanned.

    There have been a few commenters who left here because the rest us are not true believers in the Idea that Great President Trump is trying to Save America from the Clutches of the Deep State, and all Criticism of Our Fearless Leader is giving voluntary aid and comfort to The Enemies of Our Country.

    There are some others who left for various reasons. The one I most miss is Beldar, whose reason for leaving I still don’t quite understand.

    Kishnevi (94255e)

  77. I’ll try to avoid revealing my cultural affiliation but having lived in different parts of the country I’ve been surprised to find “southern rural whites” everywhere. There are slight variations in accent and other things, like not being white or southern, but they’re everywhere once you know what to look for.

    You’re absolutely correct. Boston (where I was born) is full of them.

    But I was talking about cultural representation. Almost any TV show that drew on rural stereotypes seemed to be set in the South (Mayberry RFD was set in North Carolina;the Petticoat Junction never explicitly located itself but implied a setting in Missouri, according to Wikipedia). Growing up in the 60s/70s, it seemed that if TV showed a rural “hick” they were Southern…and that if a character was Southern, they were a hick. The first breaches in that wall I can remember were Dolly Parton and Burt Reynolds.

    Kishnevi (94255e)

  78. #59 — It’s a safe bet that Bush generally learned which leader he was speaking with before sitting down for a talk — as Trump did not do when he sat down to talk with the president of Iraqi Kurdistan.
    It’s one thing to be unfamiliar with the names of current leaders. It’s another to be unaware of where certain places are, what borders on what, etc.

    I would never call Bush a genius, but he spent a lot more time studying things than Trump has ever done. It’s known that Trump prefers to go into meetings without doing any study of the issues, and that he has a very limited attention span for the written word. Aides learned quickly that they needed to prepare a lot of visuals and then walk Trump through the information, because he wouldn’t read it himself.
    Bush’s deficiencies are hardly a defense of the deeper ignorance and arrogance of Donald J. Trump.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  79. PTw 56:

    From what I’ve read on other blogs…and actually part of what drew me here in the first place, is this place has quite the reputation for casting people out.

    Really? Where did you read this?

    DRJ (15874d)

  80. @70. Really. get some perspective.

    Recommend Get Smart instead; Buck and Mel at their best.

    Really.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. Ya’ll kiss my grits!

    lou suggs (c83158)

  82. Our esteemed host wrote:

    My father in law, who was born in South Texas and has spent most of his life in Louisville (properly pronounced LEWuhvill, and the “uh” is barely pronounced) is one of the smartest and most well read people I have ever met.

    Actually, Lew-uh-vull would be closer! And right now there’s a meme out making fun of those from Bahston, pahking their smaht cahs.

    The Dana from Kentucky (b49bca)

  83. There are some others who left for various reasons. The one I most miss is Beldar, whose reason for leaving I still don’t quite understand.

    Kishnevi (94255e) — 1/28/2020 @ 2:43 pm

    I miss him too. Though he’s superficially critical, he’s one of the few who have both ethical principles and faith in the GOP’s long term ability to get through this period of scandal. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but as someone who lacks that faith I think that difference has a lot to do with his frustration speaking on politics here (perhaps elsewhere too).

    Of course, this isn’t support for the notion this place is banning those who differ. Even really bad trolls are often unbanned if they just apologize. I myself have apologized a few times for being rude. Nobody’s perfect. PTW has made an accusation and has been given a lot of respectful dialogue, but has responded with insults. I suspect PTW is trying to get banned so he can go elsewhere and say “see!!!”. But I hope that’s not the case. The blog is better with different points of view, even if trump defense is so difficult and therefore leads to a lot of squirrel! and anger.

    Take Munroe’s comments out of the thread and 99% of the time you’d have no idea what the post was about. Or you’d think the post was specifically about me. That’s how I’m always able to spot the same 2-3 guys who keep changing their names but hold onto grudges and obsessions for years.

    Those in Texas: is this not the most gorgeous day today? Really cheerful outside.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  84. Ace, Redstate, Althouse, Patterico, etc. don’t owe you anything.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72) — 1/28/2020 @ 2:37 pm

    I forgot about Ann Althouse. Might see what she’s talking about lately.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  85. I’ve only seen people banned from here for being insulting and dishonest (especially with our host).

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  86. @68. Stupid stereotypes sell: Robert Penn Warren’s ‘All The King’s Men’ – and the Rossen film of same, made stars and out of ‘rubes’… Andy Griffith’s powerful role in ‘A Face In The Crowd’ not to mention his long TV run as Mayberry’s wholesome sheriff cemented some hayseed Goober and Gomer humor and imagery into the minds of Americans, too– along w/Green Acres, Petticoat Junction and the other rural television comedies on CBS [all cancelled by Fred Silverman and replaced w/urban comedies.] And, of course, Good ol’boys Reynolds and Voight did ‘Deliverance’ [squeal like a pig] before Burt did the Smokeys… Then there’s the radio programming back in the day, too… It’s $$$$ and the occasional real live incident that perpetuates the sterotypes– like when Louie Gohmert opens his mouth. 😉

    “I’m just a country boy…” – ‘Lonesome’ Rhodes [Andy Griffith] ‘A Face In The Crowd’ 1957

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. I’m saying respect the host.

    I can do two things at once, respect the host and disagree with his/her opinion. A host who isn’t a dick or intellectually dishonest would get that and not suspend me for a difference of political opinion.
    And on other side of the same coin, if you’re a jerk-off or personally attack the host, don’t expect to stay long, like I said here.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  88. “Bush’s deficiencies are hardly a defense of the deeper ignorance and arrogance of Donald J. Trump.”
    Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/28/2020 @ 3:03 pm

    It wasn’t meant as a criticism of Bush or a defense of Trump.

    It was actually a big story at the time, and tied into the effort to cast Bush as a dunce.

    That sort of lazy argument was denounced by his supporters then, many who think it’s so awesome now.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  89. Our host wrote, and several commenters agreed with:

    But someone who thinks that Donald Trump is “the smart one” is either seriously deluded, monumentally ignorant, or some combination of the two.

    Mr Trump entered the race regarded as a joke candidate, but managed to beat 16 other Republicans for the nomination, the vast majority of whom were very smart, accomplished and highly regarded. Then, after winning the nomination, he faced a candidate with total name recognition, support from almost everyone, everywhere, who was favored to win by such huge margins that her campaign thought she could have significant (petti)coattails in normally red states, who outspent her opponent almost two-to-one, and virtually everybody, everywhere, expected her to have a string, solid victory. Major newspapers were publishing stories telling us that Mr Trump had no plausible path to 270 electoral votes.

    Yet Donald Trump thought he would win, and he did. He outsmarted everybody. He might not be quite as dumb as you think he is.

    The Dana from Kentucky (b49bca)

  90. Mr Trump entered the race regarded as a joke candidate, but managed to beat 16 other Republicans for the nomination, the vast majority of whom were very smart, accomplished and highly regarded

    Only some of them were. Most of them were complete non-entities like Jeb Bush, mainly talked about by Trump fans for reasons that honestly escape me. But to your larger point, yes, Trump’s performance in the primary is impressive. Though I think it’s mainly impressive in the power of populism and the anger many have towards the GOP and Democrats. Many celebrities could have harnessed that… and I really don’t think Trump has ever shown much intellect. I don’t see him as comparable to George W Bush (whom I regard as very intelligent, and yes I know that opinion opens me up to ridicule).

    Yet Donald Trump thought he would win

    No, he was warning us that the election was rigged. He was obviously sure he would lose. The polls turned out to be generally correct… he did lose the vote by millions. But he won in the right places. Some say this proves Trump’s masterful strategy, which, by all means, see it that way if you like.

    But if winning means excellence, and there’s no more to it, Obama is twice as good a president as Trump, right?

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  91. The Dana from Kentucky (b49bca) — 1/28/2020 @ 3:42 pm

    Mr Trump entered the race regarded as a joke candidate, but managed to beat 16 other Republicans for the nomination, the vast majority of whom were very smart,

    No, I think they weren’t. They didn’t know how to argue against Trump.

    accomplished

    A few were maybe.

    and highly regarded.

    That;s true for some of them. Maybe they were overrated.

    There is also the problem of getting traction.

    Then, after winning the nomination, he faced a candidate with total name recognition,

    Bt high negatives.

    support from almost everyone, everywhere,

    Wat are you talking about?

    who was favored to win by such huge margins that her campaign thought she could have significant (petti)coattails in normally red states, who outspent her opponent almost two-to-one, and virtually everybody, everywhere, expected her to have a string, solid victory.

    Well, she did. she was going after hard to get states.

    Major newspapers were publishing stories telling us that Mr Trump had no plausible path to 270 electoral votes.

    Kellyanne Conway figured out a way, though.

    Yet Donald Trump thought he would win, and he did. He outsmarted everybody. He might not be quite as dumb as you think he is.

    He wasn’t held captive by the conventional wisdom.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  92. Dustin wrote:

    But if winning means excellence, and there’s no more to it, Obama is twice as good a president as Trump, right?

    “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.” — Vince Lombardi

    As for your formulation, taken literally it would mean that Franklin Roosevelt is our greatest President evah!, twice as good as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Jackson. It also means that every President who won twice is exactly as good as every other one of them.

    Is President Obama twice as good as President Trump? Even using your formulation, it doesn’t apply because Mr Trump hasn’t been judged in his second election.

    President Trump is hardly perfect, but he has gotten a lot of good things done.

    The Dana from Kentucky (b49bca)

  93. Putting Trump aside for a sec, it still blows me away that the best the democrats had in 2016 was Hillary. Unpleasant, corrupt, pursuing this for the sake of ambition rather than some purpose for the people. It made it hard for democrats to point to Trump’s flaws… Hillary was very similar to Trump, and they have such a long and close relationship, having been basically on the same side of all issues for so long.

    And this year, Bernie is probably the most interesting and purpose driven candidate with a chance of getting nominated.

    If both parties had a rule where they won’t nominate anyone with 20 years of elected experience in any public office, city council on up, they’d be a lot better.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  94. As for your formulation, taken literally it would mean that Franklin Roosevelt is our greatest President evah!, twice as good as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Jackson. It also means that every President who won twice is exactly as good as every other one of them.

    Right. Pretty dumb, right?

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  95. President Trump is hardly perfect, but he has gotten a lot of good things done.

    Name two that any other generic republican wouldn’t have done, heck, name one. Most of them wouldn’t be running up the debt in a time of economic growth like a drunken sailor either, ostracizing our longest allies, buddying up to despots and enemies. I’d take beigeman Pence a million times over, rather than listen to this moron for 5 more seconds.

    Most generic republicans wouldn’t be in such deep doodoo now from the myriad of idiotic things he’s done either, and might even win a second term. Trump needs to keep Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Arizona, all of which he’s likely to lose, which means he’ll be the first one term president since Carter.

    But he’s stupid, he may be clever (like a rat), but idiot he be.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  96. ”Name two that any other generic republican wouldn’t have done, heck, name one.“
    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89) — 1/28/2020 @ 4:21 pm

    Here’s two: Winning MI and OH in 2016. No wait!! Here’s a third: Winning PA.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  97. And right now there’s a meme out making fun of those from Bahston, pahking their smaht cahs.

    Pahking cahs in Hahvahd Yahd was a cliche when I was a kid…

    One relic of my youth that has fortunately disappeared (fortunate for me, at least) was the supposedly humorous question asked of me and anyone else with my last name (Smith)
    Are you Trade or Mark

    Kishnevi (ecadcd)

  98. last name (Smith)
    Are you Trade or Mark

    I don’t get it.

    nk (1d9030)

  99. Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/28/2020 @ 4:27 pm

    I think you seriously underestimate how strongly people despised Hillary. I think every GOP candidate would have had a good chance of beating her.

    I know every other GOP candidate would not have manuevered himself into being impeached.

    Kishnevi (ecadcd)

  100. nk, you are old enough to remember
    http://thesmithbrothers.com/

    Actually it’s been so long since I have seen them sold, I thought they were out of business. Glad to see they are still around.

    Kishnevi (ecadcd)

  101. Yup. Most of Trump’s vote was anti-Hillary res ipsa loquitor his fans consider it the most important thing and talk about it at every opportunity; and most of Hillary’s vote was anti-Trump. Native New York sewer scum vs. invasive New York sewer scum, the election of 2016 was.

    nk (1d9030)

  102. 101. Heh!

    nk (1d9030)

  103. Here’s two: Winning MI and OH in 2016. No wait!! Here’s a third: Winning PA.

    So he’s accomplished zero since losing the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. Good to know.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  104. Name two that any other generic republican wouldn’t have done, heck, name one.

    I’d start with deregulation. Almost certain the generic republican would not have done this, being creatures of the system, and no backbone as demonstrated most recenly.

    But here are others that I think many republicans would not have had the strength to follow through on, especially the Romney’s Jebs, and Rubios of the lot. Cruz might have.

    Of these achievements, I would expect a generic republican to acheve maybe 20-25%. His record of getting things done is astounding.

    Tax cuts, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, renegotiated trade deals, Paris climate, Fracking, pipeline, Wall, Iran deal, more dismantling of Obama care, confirmed (non SCOTUS) judges, reduced border crossings, stood up to caravans, Embassy in Jerusalem, Changed ISIS ROEs, forced NATO allies to increase contributions, many improvements in VA care, rolled back Waters of the US rule, use of Perkins for Vocational training…

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  105. Some people have been banned but far more often people have been moderated and given the chance to apologize or clarify a dispute, but they refused. In those cases, I think it is more accurate to say they left.

    DRJ (15874d)

  106. “I know every other GOP candidate would not have manuevered himself into being impeached.”
    Kishnevi (ecadcd) — 1/28/2020 @ 4:56 pm

    You have to get elected first, so yeah.

    And, for a Republican, getting elected checks off the maneuvering part.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  107. I have never written off Trump humpers as stupid. It’s a far more insidious condition. Inasmuch as they are barely capable of being honest with themselves or others, they know Trump’s shortcomings quite well. They just don’t care.

    Gryph (08c844)

  108. 96. Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89) — 1/28/2020 @ 4:21 pm

    Trump needs to keep Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Arizona, all of which he’s likely to lose, which means he’ll be the first one term president since Carter.

    1992 came after 1980.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  109. 109. You beat me to the punch, Fink. George H. W. Bush was also a one-termer — and lost out to Clenis, even.

    Gryph (08c844)

  110. The Commandant of Stalag 13 wrote:

    President Trump is hardly perfect, but he has gotten a lot of good things done.

    Name two that any other generic republican wouldn’t have done, heck, name one. Most of them wouldn’t be running up the debt in a time of economic growth like a drunken sailor either, ostracizing our longest allies, buddying up to despots and enemies.

    Any other generic Republican would have said he was going to fight illegal immigration, but President Trump has actually been doing it. Border enforcement is way up, asylum seekers must now wait in Mexico, and he has reduced the number of refugees we accept from 110,000 in 2017 — the number President Obama set — to 18,000 for 2020, and the only complaint I have about that is it is 18,000 too many.

    He couldn’t get Obysmalcare repealed, but where any other generic Republican would have folded, he has been slowly dismantling it, chipping away at the edges to the point where it is really unsustainable. He hasn’t done that alone, as some court decisions have helped.

    He has set regulations to more greatly restrict legal immigration by people who cannot support themselves, something that the Supreme Court has just upheld.

    He moved our embassy to Jerusalem, something the last ‘generic Republican’ issued waivers every six months to keep from doing under the law.

    He pulled us out of the ridiculous Paris climate agreement. I think that he did it the wrong way; he should have declared it a treaty and sent it to the Senate for ratification, knowing it would be rejected, but at least he got it done. (I made the same point concerning President Bush ‘unsigning’ the Kyoto Accords.)

    He has pulled back some of our troops in unsustainable situations. He hasn’t done as much of that as he should have done, but more than any other of the Republicans who ran would have done. He has renegotiated some of our trade deals. that’s been a mixed blessing, but none of the other 2016 Republicans would have done anything at all.

    He has dismantled the Iran nuclear deal; no one else would have.

    He has rolled back existing regulations.

    He ended the cockamamie notion of allowing ‘transgendered’ persons in the military. That we would enlist soldiers who would be undeployable for significant periods of time is so boneheadedly stupid that only President Obama would have done it.

    The Dana from Kentucky (b49bca)

  111. I have never written off [Hillary] humpers as stupid. It’s a far more insidious condition. Inasmuch as they are barely capable of being honest with themselves or others, they know [Hillary’s] shortcomings quite well. They just don’t care.

    FIFY

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  112. 112. I’ve never voted for a Democrat in my life. You’re barking up the wrong tree with me. If you think Donald J. Trump gives a tinker’s dam about anything or anyone other than Donald J. Trump, Vera Coking and Michael Forbes would love to have a word with you.

    Gryph (08c844)

  113. @94. Unpleasant, corrupt, pursuing this for the sake of ambition rather than some purpose for the people.

    You’re kidding, right?!— a former Senator/Sec. of State; First Lady, etc.,…

    Suggest you listen to the ‘unpleasant, corrupt… ambitious’ secret WH tapes of one Richard Milhous Nixon.

    “And what America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.” – GOP nominee, former Congressman/U.S. Senator & VP Richard Nixon, acceptance speech, August 8, 1968.

    Six years later to the day: GOP President Nixon resigns in disgrace: August 8, 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. If Trumpkins did not need Hillary as the justification for Trump’s existence, she’d have been last century’s news three years ago.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. But I guess when your President is such a degraded creature that even Russian hookers pee on him, you need every straw to prop him up with.

    nk (1d9030)

  116. Gryph (08c844) — 1/28/2020 @ 5:25 pm

    George H. W. Bush was also a one-termer — and lost out to Clenis, even

    On the other hand, Carter was the last one-termer who succeeded a president of the opposite party.

    George H. W. Bush could be said to have won Ronald Reagan’s third term. Ford completed Nixon’s second term. From 1960 to 1968 there were Democrats, and from 1920 through 1932. Taft really was elected to Theodore Roosevelt’s third term in 1908. So the last truly one term president before Carter was Grover Cleveland – twice. I think he was offered the nomination again in 1904.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  117. * and from 1920 through 1932 there were (three) Republicans.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  118. Trump is probably very well-traveled. It’s quite possible that he has been in Ukraine, or, at least in some neighboring countries. This nonsense of calling Republican Presidents and candidates “dumb” goes back at least as far as Eisenhower, who was actually quite smart.

    David in Cal (f8ea8c)

  119. You’re barking up the wrong tree with me.

    My apologies. I’ll look for other trees.

    If you think Donald J. Trump gives a tinker’s dam about anything or anyone other than Donald J. Trump,…

    I pretty much expect every person at the highest levels of politics to be looking out for #1. I have no illusions other than sometimes my interests align with theirs. I choose the candidate who I think steers the ship the way I want it most often.

    I have no issue with people who hump on Trump. Most likely he will achieve more good for them than any Dem, for sure, and probably more so than most if not all current Pubs, not in spite of his short comings, but because of them. It is Trump’s very braggadocio that makes him bull ahead through media frenzie, Dem howls, court injunctions, and every other roadblock that would have stopped (and has) a more polite and cultured man. Trump may very much be a man of the times.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  120. yes, i like that thing about mr. president trump, who may possibly not have evaded the draft by showing up for his physical in a lavender mini dress, too

    he yammers

    nk (1d9030)

  121. 114.

    GOP President Nixon resigns in disgrace: August 8, 1974

    Effective noon, Friday August 9, 1974.

    By the way, Richard Nixon did NOT “orchestate” the Watergate cover=up as the New York Times has it today.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/politics/john-bolton-trump.html

    t first glance, John R. Bolton’s account of President Trump’s private remarks sounded like an echo of the so-called smoking gun tape that proved President Richard M. Nixon really had orchestrated the Watergate cover-up and ultimately forced him from office.

    It was John Dean who orchestrated the Watergate cover-up.

    He roped Richard Nixon into it, twice, and the second time it wasn’t about Watergate at all, as far as what he told Nixon.

    The first time was when he had Nixon approve trying to conceal the basic fact of a connection to the Committee to Re-Elect the president, by telling the CIA to tell the FBI that some operation would be exposed if they traced the money, telling him falsely that was John Ehrlichman’s idea; the CIA refused, and nothing came of it, which is why it left no traces until the June 23, 1072 tape was released.

    The second time was on March 21, 1973 when he had having Nixon approve after the fact, but he didn’t tell that to Nixon! paying “hush money” to E. Howard Hunt, and he told Nixon that was needed to preserve secrecy about not Watergate, but the break-in into Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist’s office which Nixon considered legally defensible, if problematical.

    Once the connection to his campaign became known, Nixon had no interest in covering up Watergate. John Dean had to make up a story about E. Howard Hunt blackmailing them in connection with Ellsberg to get Nixon to approve spending the money which he had already given to Hunt

    People were so badgered by propoganda that they didn’t see this.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  122. Trump is probably very well-traveled. It’s quite possible that he has been in Ukraine, or, at least in some neighboring countries. This nonsense of calling Republican Presidents and candidates “dumb” goes back at least as far as Eisenhower, who was actually quite smart.

    That’s great. Trump is still stupid.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  123. @119 They called Lincoln dumb I think. dumb ape and stuff.

    JRH (52aed3)

  124. Rick Wilson seems like a devious and horrible person. Just who you’d want making campaign ads. Not sure he has any standing to criticize Trump, but he is raking it in doing so.

    JRH (52aed3)

  125. You’re kidding, right?!— a former Senator/Sec. of State; First Lady, etc.,…

    None of that contradicts that she is corrupt, unpleasant, solely motivated by her own ego… So I’m not sure what your exasperation is about.

    Did you think I wrote unqualified? I admit, her poor performance shows her lack of capability. That you have to add “first lady” suggests you realize she’s got very little in the way of accomplishments. She was a particularly poor first lady, a job she got by way of marriage, and one where she developed a reputation for poor teamwork, throwing lamps, stealing silverware, and being nasty to employees LBJ style. The only thing she needs to do to be a good First Lady is be pleasant… and she gets an F.

    Hillary’s corruption is amply demonstrated. I mean… her BFF was Donald Trump. That’s pretty corrupt.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  126. 109. You beat me to the punch, Fink. George H. W. Bush was also a one-termer — and lost out to Clenis, even.

    Gryph (08c844) — 1/28/2020 @ 5:25 pm

    Obviously you are right, but Ross Perot was part of that equation.

    We definitely need run off elections, both for primary and general presidential elections.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  127. Sean Spicier
    @sean_spicier

    POLL
    Which is more likely?

    Palestinians accept peace

    Democrats accept 2016 election
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  128. Trump accepts that Obama’s inaugural crowd was bigger than his

    nk (1d9030)

  129. There are plenty of reasons to vote for him [Trump] that are arguably sensible: judges, immigration, taxes, and regulation come to mind.

    Taxes? Really?

    Google “Patterico opposes Trump tax cut” and count the opposing posts. Not exactly a warm embrace of our Captain’s tax policies. Or maybe it’s an accent issue and ‘taxes’ really pronounced ‘Texas.’ 😉

    Just because I disagree with a policy doesn’t mean it’s not “arguably” sensible to support it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  130. Democrats accept 2016 election
    _

    harkin (d6cfee) — 1/28/2020 @ 7:03 pm

    Yeah that’s really bad. Except when Trump was king birther for years. Then it’s OK.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  131. Trump is probably very well-traveled. It’s quite possible that he has been in Ukraine, or, at least in some neighboring countries. This nonsense of calling Republican Presidents and candidates “dumb” goes back at least as far as Eisenhower, who was actually quite smart.

    That’s great. Trump is still stupid.

    It’s true that the tradition goes back a long time and is often inaccurate.

    Here, however, Colonel Klink is right. This video is out of context, but funny:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  132. UPDATE – Lemon didn’t hear what was said, he was laughing at initial joke.

    Basically throwing the other two guys under the bus.

    https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1222356876941197313?s=20

    harkin (d6cfee)

  133. Palestinians accept peace

    Democrats accept 2016 election

    Trump accepts that Obama’s inaugural crowd was bigger than his

    Trump was king birther for years.
    _

    There are actually people who believe at least one of the bottom two are as important as the top two.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  134. There are actually people who believe at least one of the bottom two are as important as the top two.

    Trump is one, Sean Spicer (not Spicier) has to be the other one because that was the beginning of the end for him as “the best people”.

    nk (1d9030)

  135. I am just waiting for some Trumpkin to start claiming in late summer or early autumn that the 2020 Democratic campaign is an attempt to nullify the election of 2016.

    [To be clear, I don’t expect anyone here to be that nonsensical.]

    Kishnevi (836963)

  136. 120. While it’s fair to expect politicians to look out for #1 as a general rule of thumb, I don’t think anyone in my life has been more utterly grotesque about it than Donald Trump. Cf. Vera Coking, Michael Forbes

    Gryph (08c844)

  137. WaPo reporter suspended for Kobe tweet asks CNN to hold her beer.

    Felicia Sonmez
    @feliciasonmez
    I believe that Washington Post readers and employees, including myself, deserve to hear directly from
    @PostBaron
    on the newspaper’s handling of this matter. My statement on The Post’s decision tonight:
    __ _

    Scott
    @scottawarattray
    ·
    Kronkite’s only regret is he didnt remind viewers of JFK’s infidelities the day he was assassinated.

    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  138. Trump was king birther for years.

    No, he wasn’t. Just for a few months, maybe less. He didn’t even get into the issue until 2011. At the time, I thought he really believed it, but I don;t think so now. Trump dropped it, after bama produced an official record from Hawaii, time stamped April 11, 2011,

    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    but since Trump didn’t want to acknowledge he was wrnog, on occasion he would say something to the effect that he didn’t say he was wrong, but only when reminded of it.

    I think Barack Obama’s family lost or threw out his original birth certificate, issued in 1961, and didn’t want to admit it, but that birth certificate no longer had any legal value by the 1980s.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  139. “I’m of two minds about this.”

    Well, that’s probably because you’re politically incompetent.

    Deleted and re-banned, Steppe Nomad.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  140. No, he wasn’t. Just for a few months, maybe less. He didn’t even get into the issue until 2011. At the time, I thought he really believed it, but I don;t think so now. Trump dropped it, after bama produced an official record from Hawaii, time stamped April 11, 2011,

    I take your point, but Trump’s commentary on his secret knowledge of Obama’s birth certificate (in hindsight, obvious lies) got him started in this alt-right loyalty and he’s certainly never repudiated his views or said he was wrong (it’s amusing to even picture him doing so).

    I think Obama would have had no problem proving his birthplace and happily let the GOP behave ridiculously as it helped his cause. I think Obama’s style was subtly very dismissive of concerns he wasn’t eligible in a way he actively wanted to inflame and discredit his opponents. The result is that the GOP is a real mess.

    And before someone says so: yeah Hillary started it with the birthers. Probably worked with Trump on it. They are basically the same person.

    Dustin (f9dd4d)

  141. 142. Dustin (f9dd4d) — 1/29/2020 @ 7:36 am

    Trump’s commentary on his secret knowledge of Obama’s birth certificate (in hindsight, obvious lies)

    Trump claimed he had hored investigators, and I think that they had found out things maybe.

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/donald-trump-birther/index.html

    “I have people that have been studying [Obama’s birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they’re finding”

    – April 7, 2011, NBC “Today” show

    Dustin:

    and he’s certainly never repudiated his views or said he was wrong (it’s amusing to even picture him doing so).

    He tried to have to both ways:

    Trump himself, however, had not until Friday publicly said he believes Obama was born in the US. And asked recently about his role in promoting the racially charged smear, Trump went uncharacteristically mum.

    “I don’t talk about it because if I talk about that, your whole thing will be about that,” he told reporters last week. “So I don’t talk about it.”

    At one point Trump pulled out his original birth certificate from 1946 and asked why couldn’t Obama do that. Reporters told him that birth certificate had no value. Trump said aomething like: “Oh.”

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  142. <i? got him started in this alt-right loyalty

    At that time he was thinking about running for the Republican nomination for president in 2012. But in December 2011, Trump changed to “no party affiliation” (independent) and then in April 2012, Trump again became a Republican.

    That’s also around the time he stopped making political contributions to Democrats.

    Trump had started out as a Republican, and tried to interest George H. W. Bush in naming him as his vice president in 1988. Then his divorce scandal ensued and he didn’t think about running for office again until 1999. That year, he changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York (possibly mistakeing it for Independent) and announced he was considering running for the nominaton of Ross Perot’s Reform Party. That’s why it Trump got mentioned as the previous president before Lisa Simpson on an episode of the Simpsons.

    He gave interviews, talked about Melania, whom he hadn’t married yet, as first lady, published a book on political topics, but dropped out, basically because he saw no way to win.

    In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic (we can assume that was because the president of the United States was now a Republican) In September 2009, Trump changed his party affiliation back to Republican. (since the president of the United States was now a Democrat.)

    Then came, as I mentioned, the leaving of the Republican Party and the coming back again in 2011-2012.

    And in 2014 he contemplated running for Governor of New York, but wanted to be handed the nomination without a primary, which was not possible, and then he proposed that Rob Astorino, the leading Republican candidate for Governor, run for Lt Gov while he ran for Governor, promising him he would, if elected, resign in the middle of 2015 to run for president.

    Rob Astorino didn’t want to do that, saying that would fool the voters.

    I wonder how Donald Trump he could be elected Governor in New York State as a Republican. Even opposing Andrew Cuomo.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  143. I think Obama would have had no problem proving his birthplace and happily let the GOP behave ridiculously as it helped his cause. I think Obama’s style was subtly very dismissive of concerns he wasn’t eligible in a way he actively wanted to inflame and discredit his opponents. The result is that the GOP is a real mess.

    I think he didn’t have any problem actually proving it to any reasonable person. And I think maybe he, or his political advisers, were content to let his opponents go on like this. But I think also he was embarrassed to admit he no longer had his original birth certificate from 1961.

    Now the president whose birth certificate I would like to see is Bill Clinton, because I think he changed his date of birth in 1969 to evade the draft. Someone as politically connected as Bill Clinton was at that time could do that, I think. That was why he made all that fuss about his passport files, because his passport files would show the date of birth he used in 1968. (I think Bill Clinton instigated the whole Passportgate scandal in 1992 so as to inoculate anyone at looking at his passport file.)

    And before someone says so: yeah Hillary started it with the birthers. Probably worked with Trump on it.

    That’s right, Hillary started it but without getting her fingerprints on it. Trump had nothing to do with that until 2011, when he picked up that half abandoned cause. In 2008, Trump was waiting to see who won the presidential election before deciding what party he would be in.

    They are basically the same

    Yes. Bill Clinton probably encouraged Donald Trump to run for president in 2015. He outsmarted himself, once again.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  144. Based on his actions and statements Trump wants more government.
    If there’s a republican that effected less federal government I don’t recall it.

    Yes, but the people who voted for him wanted him to kick over the table, too. And he’s done that to the displeasure of those eating off it.

    Part of the problem WAS that no president or party had opted for less government in anyone’s lifetime. Now, I don’t see where Trump has actually added to the government’s power. He has used tools that have always been there (e.g. tariffs) but that doesn’t count. He isn’t pushing new programs to cover new “unmet” needs, or expanding old ones into new areas. And he has defanged the EPA, the CFPD, the FEC, and put other agencies (e.g. FCC) into better hands.

    Yes, the deficit has exploded, and that’s a problem, but it’s a spending side problem and spending is Congresses job.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  145. Just because I disagree with a policy doesn’t mean it’s not “arguably” sensible to support it.

    And if Patterico lived in a state without an income tax he might have formed a different view. The tax cut cost me $10K in increased taxes (could not deduct big state tax on sale of my house). But I supported it in general, if not that specific.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  146. Who has been banned from Ace, Insty, and Red State?

    Judging by who is NOT banned from Insty, I’d say you’d have to be spamming to get banned. Maybe doxxing people would do it. But it’s a lot harder than anywhere else.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  147. @147. More a reference to the soaring deficit which libertarians/conservatives endlessly rail against. But again, it’s less a matter of ‘sensibility’ an more a matter of ‘acceptance’- the last stage of grief.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


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