Patterico's Pontifications

1/25/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:27 am



[guest post by Dana]

Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item: Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Jay-Z, tech industry developers, and entrepeneurs would like to have a word:

Second news item: President Trump needs to keep his mouth shut about that which he doesn’ know:

A prominent veterans advocacy group is asking President Trump for an apology over his remarks on injuries suffered by U.S. troops stationed at a military base in Iraq that was hit by Iranian airstrikes earlier this month.

Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) said Trump “minimized” the injuries the troops suffered after the Pentagon announced that dozens of U.S. troops suffered traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Trump had referred to the injuries as “headaches” and “not very serious” earlier in the week.

“In light of today’s announcement from the defense department that 34 U.S. service members suffered traumatic brain injuries as a result of Iran’s retaliatory strike and President Trump’s remarks which minimized these troops’ injuries, the Veterans of Foreign Wars cannot stand idle on this matter,” VFW National Commander William “Doc” Schmitz said in a statement. The Pentagon said Friday that 34 service members stationed in Iraq suffered the TBIs after a retaliatory missile strike from Iran in response to the killing of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Tehran’s top general.

What Trump said at the time:

Trump had initially said no service members had been injured. He later said that he “heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things, but I would say and I can report that it’s not very serious”

“I don’t consider them very serious injuries relative to other injuries that I’ve seen,” he added.

Third news item: President Trump at the March for Life. Good for him:

“Today as president of the United States, I am truly proud to stand with you,” Trump said, while also touting the “tremendous turnout” of the crowd.

Trump ticked off a laundry list of actions he’s taken to support abortion opponents since taking office, including restrictions to eligibility for the family planning funding program known as Title X and funding restrictions on nonprofits that support abortion abroad, known as the Mexico City policy.

He also called on Congress to take action to limit abortion late in pregnancy and referenced legislation that Republicans say would protect infants born after attempted abortions.

“The unborn have never had a stronger defender in the White House,” he said. “Young people are the heart of the March for Life and it’s your generation that is making America the pro-family, pro-life nation.”

Fourth news item: A little gift to that special baby who survives an abortion, via Planned Parenthood:

Untitled

Fifth news item: Oh, that’s right, the Senate’s impeachment trial continues this morning:

Have a great weekend.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

163 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  2. Why I’m proud not to be a Republican anymore, Reason #82551:

    Reporter says Mike Pompeo cursed and demanded she find Ukraine on a map after interview

    [Mary Louise] Kelly told listeners in a broadcast later on NPR that after the interview she was called back into Pompeo’s living room at the State Department, where the outburst then unfolded.

    “What is happening (at the end) there is an aide has stopped the interview, said, ‘We’re done, thank you,’ and you heard me thank the secretary,” Kelly said on air after the fact. “He did not reply — he leaned in, glared at me, and then turned and with his aides left the room.”

    Kelly said that moments later, “That same staffer who stopped the interview reappeared, asked me to come with her — just me, no recorder — though she did not say we were off the record, nor would I have agreed.”

    Kelly was brought to Pompeo’s private living room, she continued, “where he was waiting and where he shouted at me for about (the) same amount of time as the interview itself had lasted.”
    Pompeo was displeased about the Ukraine questioning, and asked her, “Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?” Kelly said, adding that “he used the F-word in that sentence and many others.”

    Pompeo then asked Kelly if she could find Ukraine on a map, she recounted, and when she said that she could, “He called out for aides to bring us a map of the world with no writing.”
    “I pointed to Ukraine. He put the map away. He said, ‘People will hear about this,'” Kelly said. “And then he turned, said he had things to do and I thanked him again for his time and left.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. Meh. As if the current President of the United States could identify the Ukraine on an unmarked map.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  4. Relating to item number…all of them, even Oprah, made their money off of patents, trademarks, copyrights,and in one case, the NCAA and NBA. Patents, copyrights, and trademarks are essentially things in which we’ve decided that letting people have a monopoly will benefit everyone else. I will leave you to judge for yourself how close to a monopoly the NCAA and other professional sports leagues are.

    Kishnevi (e95dc4)

  5. That was item number one

    Kishnevi (e95dc4)

  6. Apparently, impeachment doesn’t make a lot of difference for the Iowa caucus:

    Iowa: Trump vs. Biden NY Times/Siena Trump 46, Biden 44 Trump +2
    Iowa: Trump vs. Sanders NY Times/Siena Trump 48, Sanders 42 Trump +6
    Iowa: Trump vs. Warren NY Times/Siena Trump 47, Warren 42 Trump +5
    Iowa: Trump vs. Buttigieg NY Times/Siena Trump 45, Buttigieg 44 Trump +1
    Iowa: Trump vs. Bloomberg NY Times/Siena Trump 47, Bloomberg 39 Trump +8

    (Dems: Biden 17, Sanders 25, Buttigieg 18, Warren 15, Klobuchar 8, Yang 3, Booker, Steyer 3, Gabbard 1, Bloomberg 1)

    Dana (8ef71a)

  7. It’s the one to the north, northeast, and east of Moldova, happyfeet.

    nk (1d9030)

  8. “The unborn have never had a stronger defender in the White House,” he said.

    So the march was just another platform to say “I’m the greatest in the history of the world!”

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  9. I think the polling is especially interesting, given that Sanders is not even on the campaign trail this week, but is at the Senate trial (along with Warren and Klobuchar). Biden should be concerned.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  10. A trademark, copyright or patent is no good if you can’t get poor, orphan, Chinese children working at slave wages to turn it into something you can sell at a profit.

    Like all the junk-science-economics economists, Reich misses the forest for the trees. All wealth derives from labor. You become more wealthy than others by exploiting the labor of others.

    nk (1d9030)

  11. You could have made a lot of money investing in Amazon in late 2002 or late 2008. I’d say Apple, too, but that would include profiting from slave labor (something they seem to have missed in their list).

    Kevin M (19357e)

  12. I like how #FakeNewsFailingCNN gives us the whole story linked by Dave at his Comment #3 at the very end of the article: “In the conversation, the subject of Ukraine was brought up,” Parnas told CNN in an interview earlier this month.

    “And I told the President that — our opinion — that (Ambassador Yovanovitch) is bad-mouthing him and that she said that he’s gonna get impeached — something like that. I don’t know if that’s word for word.”

    Parnas said Trump reacted immediately. “He looked at me, like, got very angry,” Parnas recalled, “and basically turned around to John DeStefano, and said, ‘Fire her. Get rid of her.'”

    CNN’s Jim Acosta contributed to this report.

    nk (1d9030)

  13. You become more wealthy than others by exploiting the labor of others.

    Entertainment stars get wealthy because they can expand their customer base vastly without doing much if any additional work. Maybe some people in the production process are relatively exploited. But much depends on luck, and the unpredictable, fickle taste of the masses.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  14. If it was possible to become a billionaire feeding at the public sector trough, Reich would be all for it. He became a millionaire that way.

    Munroe (7b400a)

  15. All wealth derives from labor.

    Value derives from other people’s willingness to pay for what you’re offering.
    If I’m singing on a street corner and people are throwing $100 bills into my hat, whose labor is being exploited?

    If I find a gold nugget in my back yard and someone says “I’ll give you $50,000 for that,” where is the exploitation of labor?

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  16. From one point of view, Michael Jordan is a worker who finally got the pay he deserved for his talent and decades of hard work. From another point of view, he is a co-conspirator with Nike exploiting the of thousands of workers who make Nike’s schclock and dreck, and defrauding the poor people who buy it.

    nk (1d9030)

  17. nk, I get lectured nearly daily by twenty year olds in design clothing carrying Starbucks cups how capitalism is wrong.

    These same twenty year olds travel all over the world, and yet rail about “the rich.”

    They don’t understand that class warfare is a war that historically does not end. Because there are always people poorer, and richer, than yourself.

    I know you know this. I just shake my head that every generation needs to learn it.

    Simon Jester (9ac1a0)

  18. You will not become a billionaire by singing on a street corner, Radegunda. Nobody has.

    Not by looking for gold nuggets all by yourself, either. You will need to stake a claim to your gold mine and hire workers to dig out ore by the ton for you and others to smelt it and still others to transport it and more to turn it into merchantable items. Will you give each and everyone of them an equal share? Is that what John D. Rockefeller did?

    nk (1d9030)

  19. John Locke did include natural resources along with labor in his formulation of wealth, but I think that’s more relevant when talking about the wealth of nations and not individual wealth.

    nk (1d9030)

  20. CNN
    @CNN
    ·
    Bernie Sanders is facing a backlash from some Democrats after his campaign trumpeted an endorsement from comedian Joe Rogan, a popular podcast and YouTube talk show host with a history of making racist, homophobic and transphobic comments https://cnn.it/3aErlRS

    __ _

    Dems are multitasking right now.

    Weaken Trump as much as possible and take out Bernie.

    The next ten months gonna be off the hook.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  21. If Schiff and Nadler would switch parties I could be proud of the GOP again.

    Munroe (7b400a)

  22. @17…You become more wealthy than others by exploiting the labor of others.

    She’ll welcome your POV– and support, nk:

    “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there – good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea – God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.” – Elizabeth Warren

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Aaron Blake
    @AaronBlake
    GOP senators are “incensed” at the idea that Trump threatened them.

    Whether it happened in this case or not, here are a bunch of instances in which he did threaten them.
    __ _

    The Partyman
    @PartymanRandy

    “Whether it happened or not…” is the perfect encapsulation of news media in 2020.
    __

    harkin (d6cfee)

  24. @31. The truth hurts: after all, they really are a bunch of pikers. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. Lately, DCSCA, I’ve been mulling over a suspicion that Communism might not have failed so miserably if it had treated its working class as well as the labor movements of the West forced the capitalist democracies to do, instead of setting up its kommissars with their secret police, i.e. the government bureaucracy, as the new feudal lords.

    So, NO!, I do not agree with Fauxcahontas, not even 1/1024th, that we should let the government confiscate private wealth and “share it out”.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Trump delights in and uses rumors to entertain and benefit himself, but then he is the first to claim there is no proof he has done anything wrong.

    Proof is important but so is a pattern of behavior. Trump benefits from just the possibility that threat might be true. It is on him to, in a clear and convincing way, deny and squelch the destructive “head on a pike” rumors.

    DRJ (15874d)

  27. I’m sorry, DRJ, but not in this particular instance. The Senators who were allegedly threatened have already debunked it and they’re a far more credible source than Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  28. the abused often deny the abuse to protect their abusers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  29. LIsa Murkowski, Susan Collins and James Lankford said it didn’t happen.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  30. Trump said it did not happen, too. He also said the China tariffs make money for America instead of costing money.

    DRJ (15874d)

  31. the abused often deny the abuse to protect their abusers.

    While there is truth to this, I am unwilling to provide cover like this for any Senators. They are not victims. They know exactly what they’re doing and who they are supporting. They all went into this with eyes wide open when they threw their support behind Trump.

    With that, however, this speaks to the problem of GOP officals: By remaining loyal to the GOP (or Trump), even moderates’ statements are viewed with doubt. Even when truthful and accurate, there is skepticism. We’re at the point where it’s a no-win position in the GOP, whether fair or not.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  32. When the expectation is habitual lying because that it what has become normal, then truth is also viewed with deep skepticism and stands little chance of being accepted. It’s just lumped in with the whole bag of dishonesty. This is Trump’s doing. This boy who called wolf mentality based on historical evidence.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  33. As early as last October, Lindsey Graham was publicly asking his fellow Senators to sign a letter saying Trump’s Ukraine call is not an impeachable offense. The Senators that Trump has threatened are not the moderates — clearly threats and loyalty oaths won’t work with them or they would have already drunk the Trump Kool-Aid. The threats are directed at the Senators in red states who might care about principles but will instead use their influence to convince the moderates not to jump ship.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. I wanted to share that yesterday I was privileged to attend an ultrasound of a 5-month baby in the womb. The little one was moving the entire time, extending her legs and arms while her mouth continually opened and closed as if singing to herself while sheltered in the warm cocoon. Her heartbeat was a rapid swishing sound punctuated by strong, syncopated beats. The detail on the screen was incredible. So incredible that there was absolutely no denying the little unborn human she is.

    Dana (8ef71a)

  35. “the abused often deny the abuse to protect their abusers.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2020 @ 11:28 am

    So, in one single story both the news media and the anti-Trump mindset gets neatly encapsulated.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  36. ”When the expectation is habitual lying because that it what has become normal, then truth is also viewed with deep skepticism and stands little chance of being accepted. It’s just lumped in with the whole bag of dishonesty.”
    Dana (8ef71a) — 1/25/2020 @ 11:44 am

    I guess it all started when Trump pushed that collusion narrative and bogus surveillance applications.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  37. I think Trump owes the media and the blogosphere an apology for making them print false stories about him.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  38. I think the only way to test it is for all the GOP Senators to vote to remove and then look for heads on pikes. If there are none, Trump will have been vindicated.

    nk (1d9030)

  39. the abused often deny the abuse to protect their abusers.
    DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2020 @ 11:28 am

    So that’s why DCSCA keeps shouting “Helsinki!”

    I know, I know.

    felipe (023cc9)

  40. nk (1d9030) — 1/25/2020 @ 12:35 pm

    I like it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  41. Go figure. The link doesn’t work. It was supposed to link a definition of Stockholm syndrome.

    felipe (023cc9)

  42. @33. And yet your own words imply otherwise, nk… 😉

    She’ll welcome your vote– after all, it is a secret ballot. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. I think the only way to test it is for all the GOP Senators to vote to remove and then look for heads on pikes. If there are none, Trump will have been vindicated.

    Yes, I think that is by far the best test method. It has the added benefit of being the correct vote anyway.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (48e13d)

  44. @42. Watching Graham and Dershowitz tango cheek-to-cheek is endlessly entertaining… Lindsey’s a natural doing it backwards and in heels, too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYzFKizikU

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. Impeachment, Russian style:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va_IIOKYl6M

    Impeachment, American style:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1F0lBnsnkE

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. Meh. As if the current President of the United States could identify the Ukraine on an unmarked map.

    He would just ask Putin.

    Dave (2c186f)

  47. I like how #FakeNewsFailingCNN gives us the whole story linked by Dave at his Comment #3 at the very end of the article

    Right, so all that happened was President Trump told a room full of gangsters to “just take out” our ambassador to an important regional power on the hearsay of a criminal he currently denies even knowing.

    If that makes you feel better, I’m happy for you.

    Dave (2c186f)

  48. “If that makes you feel better, I’m happy for you.”
    Dave (2c186f) — 1/25/2020 @ 2:13 pm

    I mean, what else could that mean other than put her head on a pike?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  49. “the abused often deny the abuse to protect their abusers.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2020 @ 11:28 am

    So, in one single story both the news media and the anti-Trump mindset gets neatly encapsulated.

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/25/2020 @ 12:00 pm

    Are you being rude, sarcastic, or do you have a point that I am missing? Help me understand where you are coming from.

    DRJ (15874d)

  50. You always get to the heart of things, nk. Well done.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. 45, not him directly, he’d faint like Costanza at a bris. It would be one of his Noo Yawk goombas, Q-Anus, or Cesar Sayoc II.

    urbanleftbehind (eabc73)

  52. ”Are you being rude, sarcastic, or do you have a point that I am missing? Help me understand where you are coming from.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2020 @ 2:34 pm

    No. Despite denials from the Senators involved, Trump actually did threaten to put their heads on a pike, because they are abused and wish to protect their abuser. Seems clear.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  53. Munroe, why not drop the sarcasm and answer her plainly? Why not engage in a normal discussion this time?

    Dustin (8c085f)

  54. re: the Planned Parenthood baby clothes, it’s a pretty offensive caricature to strawman the pro-choice position as “every baby should be aborted.” That seems equivalent to the suggestion that being pro-life means you don’t give a damn about the circumstances of babies after they’re born.

    TR (71e867)

  55. @63, because he’s a troll with nothing to add.

    Time123 (284a51)

  56. @64, maybe it’s what you say. Or maybe it’s just funny in a dark way?

    Time123 (284a51)

  57. Munroe, why not drop the sarcasm and answer her plainly? Why not engage in a normal discussion this time?

    Dustin (8c085f) — 1/25/2020 @ 3:04 pm

    There is nothing to add. It’s a nonsensical claim by a serial liar in Schiff that only the most foolish or hateful would believe.

    NJRob (df7f05)

  58. ”because he’s a troll with nothing to add.”
    Time123 (284a51) — 1/25/2020 @ 3:44 pm

    Thanks for your contribution to the discussion, Time.

    Filed under: lack of self awareness.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  59. Robert Reich is the poster boy for what will happen if a Democrat is elected president in 2020. It’s not just the crazies like AOC. He is a professor and the kind of person that will be affecting policy in such an administration. With all Trump’s many bad qualities, nothing in his administration comes close to the kind of damage that such thinking can do.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  60. All wealth derives from labor.

    Picasso could not be reached for comment.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  61. @70. Picasso?!?!

    “Hitler… there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats!” – Franz Liebkind [Kenneth Mars] ‘The Producers’ 1967

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Yeah, but Picasso got the babes.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  63. @33. It appears to be not only surviving but thriving in the PRC– buying up Western debt– and getting those little Apple smartphones into Yankee Doodle hands and big screen TeeVees into Walmart in time for the Super Bowl Sunday sales. 😉

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. Picasso could not be reached for comment.

    That’s because he’s dead.

    And while he plucked some of his paintings off of the rare and elusive Cubic Bush, found others lying on the ground at Guernica, and the rest were given to him by passersby during the period he was singing the Blues at street corners, there was still labor involved.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. @74. Picked up signed Picasso litho for $500 back in ’87.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. @2. Betcha Pompeo needs a floor plan to find his way to the urinals in the State Department– if he ever goes there. =rim-shot=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. Filed under: lack of self awareness.

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/25/2020 @ 3:59 pm

    Time’s a troll: evidence is he’s not a shill for your favorite politician, apparently.

    K buddy.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  68. “I don’t consider them very serious injuries relative to other injuries that I’ve seen,” he added.

    “Like bone spurs.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. Like all the junk-science-economics economists, Reich misses the forest for the trees. All wealth derives from labor. You become more wealthy than others by exploiting the labor of others.

    Is truth. Potato no grow on tree, comrades.

    “Capitalism is the system where man is exploited by his fellow man. But under Communism, it’s the other way around.”

    Is joke!

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. Current Capitalism: I, too, could drive a company into bankruptcy and I’d only ask for a 12 million dollar golden handshake instead of 13 mil.

    (I do not understand how bad CEOs are in that much demand or why you would pay them millions of dollars for failing. Just hire a guy from the mail room for only slightly more than your executive vice presidents and let everyone else do their jobs.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  71. why you would pay them millions of dollars for failing

    They have contracts with severance packages in the event of early termination.

    Having a contract protects both the company and the executive. That’s why both sides agree to it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. @81 No, I understand they have contracts. I just think that it might be… demotivating… if you know that you can utterly fail and still make out. And I don’t see how it really benefits the company in the long run. They should hire someone who intends to succeed, not someone who needs a soft landing in case of failure.

    Nic (896fdf)

  73. President Trump at the March for Life.

    During the 2016 campaign, Trump promised to nominate “pro-life judges who will overturn Roe vs. Wade” to the Supreme Court.

    But both of the judges he has nominated repeatedly denied, under oath, that they are pro-life and would overturn Roe vs. Wade.

    Both also testified under oath that Trump didn’t even bother to ask them about their views on abortion.

    So this is yet another case of Trump pissing on his supporters’ legs and telling them it’s raining.

    Dave (1bb933)

  74. NJRob,

    I explained above that I think the threat is directed at red state Senators, not the moderates. I don’t think anyone agrees with me but it is not nonsensical to think Trump might threaten them. He gets angry with and sometimes threatens those he thinks aren’t sufficiently loyal, and it seems to work.

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. The problem of arguing over whether or not someone earned their wealth is failing to address the question of how the government has therefore earned it. My neighbor won the lottery, you can’t get much more clear an example of unearned wealth. Can I now go claim I’m entitled to seize the money on the grounds that he didn’t earn it or is it just the government that has this option?

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  76. Dave (1bb933) — 1/26/2020 @ 12:07 am

    No, no, no, Dave. That is just an example of plausible deniability.

    felipe (023cc9)

  77. “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there – good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea – God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.” – Elizabeth Warren

    Who exactly is “the rest of us”? All of these things “the rest of us paid for” are paid for with taxes, and guess who paid the most taxes? Walmart isn’t subsidized by their use of the public highways that “the rest of us paid for”, the public highways are paid for via motor fuels taxes, and guess who pays the most motor fuels taxes? To the extent that you’re arguing Walmart somehow should pay for their use of the public highways that “the rest of us paid for”, you’re arguing that Walmart should pay twice. Elizabeth Warren travels on the highways the rest of us paid for, when can we expect our reimbursement check?

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  78. “ Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea – God bless! ”

    She has entrepreneurship exactly backwards, same as all Lefties. Never considers innovation, investment or hard work.

    But it is helpful in understanding their thinking on a university education. They think anyone with a diploma is automatically qualified to have a high-paying job.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  79. Los Angeles Times
    @latimes
    By turning back caravans, Mexico is acting as Trump’s border wall, critics say
    __ _

    Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    There are critics of this?
    __ _

    Dan
    @LawoftheGator
    ·
    So he built a wall and Mexico is paying for it?
    __ _

    Giffs
    @rebgiffs
    ·
    “We’re not for open borders”
    __ _

    Milkman
    @21milkman
    ·
    The audience score is much higher.

    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  80. NPR reporter lies to Pompeo twice. First, says Ukraine wouldn’t be brought up, then tells Pompeo that follow up conversation is “off the record”. LOL – when will R’s EVER learn not to trust liberal/left reporters? They’re liars and DNC hacks. Cue bob dylan music: “when will they ever learn, when will they…eeevvverrr…learn?”

    rcocean (1a839e)

  81. And of course, Mittens is signally he’s going to ask for more witnesses. Of course he is. How can Romney Not be the center of attention and grandstand, if the trial ends next week? 10-1 Mittens votes Guilty on one impeachment article and then writes a long WaPo Op-ed about his “agonizing struggle” to find the truth and put “Country over party”.

    Every day I wake up, and thank God Candy Crowley helped prevent a Pierre Delecto Presidency.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  82. Harkin,

    I applaud the results Trump is having on our Southern border. It took awhile, primarily because of opposition from groups but also because Trump approached the problem without thought or any plan. I am glad he is having success now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  83. 80. Nic (896fdf) — 1/25/2020 @ 10:37 pm

    (I do not understand how bad CEOs are in that much demand or why you would pay them millions of dollars for failing.

    It’s the Chief Executives union. They set the pay, and someone in the mail room, like Robert Morse, isn’t a member of the union. It’s like teachers, or better yet, actors.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  84. Patterico (115b1f)

  85. From the NYT story:

    Mr. Pompeo’s statement did not deny Ms. Kelly’s account of obscenities and shouting. NPR said Saturday that Ms. Kelly “has always conducted herself with the utmost integrity, and we stand behind this report.” On Sunday, The New York Times obtained emails between Ms. Kelly and Ms. Martin that showed Ms. Kelly explicitly said the day before the interview that she would start with Iran and then ask about Ukraine. “I never agree to take anything off the table,” she wrote.

    Pompeo lied.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  86. 1) Profiting from a monopoly
    2) Insider-trading
    3) Political payoffs
    4) Fraud
    5) Inheritance

    I don’t think that’s true for political payoffs, except during the 1990s, and maybe 2000s, in the former Soviet Union, and while people have gotten rich from insider trading and fraud, I don’t think that will get anyone more than a couple of hundred million dollars. Inheritance is a way, but that’s not what happened with Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Michael Bloomberg.

    Their companies were, perhaps in some sense, monopolies, but what it is is they started companies in a new line of business, or beat out the old ones, which became big – and retained ownership of them.

    There are some issues with some of them gaining or retaining the ownership interest they had, and some of them weren’t the very first but became dominant. Microsoft’s MS-DOS was preceded by CP/M – Microsoft piggybacked on IBM until they separated in 1987 when IBM did something stupid; Facebook was preceded by MySpace. Apple was heading toward a bankruptcy until the second coming of S
    Steve Jobs.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  87. Patterico:

    Pompeo lied.

    Pompeo is in a bind. He can’t let Donald Trump know how he was protecting Marie Yovanovich.

    You know one thing he did: He asked the reporter if she could find Ukraine on a map. She said yes. He had a map brought out that showed countries but without names and asked her to point out Ukraine. She did.

    Pompeo is claiming that (the follow-up interview where he shouldted at her?) was off the record. It apparently wasn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  88. Thanks, Munroe. Sarcasm it is, although IMO there isn’t much difference between your choice of constant sarcasm and rudeness. Constant sarcasm is often hostility disguised as humor.

    DRJ (15874d)

  89. Pompeo lied.

    In-con-CEIV-able!

    Dave (1bb933)

  90. Also from NPR’s response (at 96 from my link):

    MARTIN: But following the interview, something happened that most journalists consider highly unusual. Here’s how Mary Louise Kelly described it yesterday to her co-host, Ari Shapiro.

    (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

    KELLY: Moments later, the same staffer who had stopped the interview reappeared, asked me to come with her – just me, no recorder, though she did not say we were off the record, nor would I have agreed. I was taken to the secretary’s private living room, where he was waiting and where he shouted at me for about the same amount of time as the interview itself had lasted.

    DRJ (15874d)

  91. First Trump got all the folks on the GOP side who wanted to serve their country.
    Eventually they all quit.
    Then Trump hired everyone on the GOP side who wanted to serve Trump.
    Eventually they all got fired.
    Now he just gets all the folks who want to serve themselves.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  92. I explained above that I think the threat is directed at red state Senators, not the moderates. I don’t think anyone agrees with me but it is not nonsensical to think Trump might threaten them. He gets angry with and sometimes threatens those he thinks aren’t sufficiently loyal, and it seems to work.

    DRJ (15874d) — 1/26/2020 @ 6:39 am

    There is no threat. It’s Schiff lying again as was stated by the Republican Senators questioned.

    If you’re saying that a red state Senator would be considered betraying their voters by voting to impeach and removed from office accordingly, that’s completely different. It doesn’t excuse Schiff’s lying any more than if a senator from a far left state voted to acquit. Such are the partisan days we live in.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  93. I kind of made a mistake about the recording on Friday, both on what I said and what I thought,

    o This was not the day before Marie Yovanovich was fired, but almost a year before (May 2018)

    o Which means that Giuliani was involved with them before the fall of 2018.

    o But which does not contradict his statements that he did not know anything about alleged Ukrainian activity against Donald Trump until the fall, and about the Biden allegations until even later.

    o The meeting was not in the White House, but in the Trump hotel in Washington.

    o It was with a group of donors. Donald J. Trump Jr was also there.

    o Lev Parnass did not record it; Igor Fruman did, using his cellphone.

    o It could not have been used to prove to Russian intelligence that they got her fired, because she wasn’t.

    o Donald Trump, in fact, ordered Marie Yovanovich fired several times before Mike Pompeo proactively recalled her on April 23, 2019 or so.

    o By the spring of 2019, Donald Trump had been under the impression she was already gone.

    o Lev Parnass says he discovered he had a copy of the recording in his iCloud account, after making a more thorough search of his records. It probably should have been turned over n response to subpoena before.

    o Lev Parnass had been seeking to turn over material to the House Intelligence Committee that was in the custody of prosecutors from the Southern District of New York. He finally got a judge to give him permission to do so. This recording here was not part of the material the prosecutors had and was turned over a bit later.

    o The recording shows someone telling Trump that Ambassador Marie Yovanovich had been going around saying that Donald Trump was going to be impeached and wasn’t going to be president for much longer. Trump’s response was to try to order her fired, which he did to nobody in particular..

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  94. “I don’t consider them very serious injuries relative to other injuries that I’ve seen,” he added.

    He’s been in Walter Reed (if it is still there)

    They don’t take him to see people with invisible brain injuries. They are probably not lying in bed in a hospital.

    So that’s really true.

    As far as it goes.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  95. “Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it.”

    They didn’t.

    The same thing used to happen with Nixon.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  96. “Pompeo lied.”
    Patterico (115b1f) — 1/26/2020 @ 8:50 am

    What?? You mean he’s peddling that “head on a pike” story, just like Schiff?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  97. “She’s going to go through some things …”
    “Take her out.”
    “He has not paid the price, yet …”

    That’s how a mobster talks about people he sees as personal enemies. And it’s coming from the president — who also believes that whatever he does is always irreproachable and nothing he says is ever wrong.

    That’s what Trump loyalists are defending — to the point of shielding him from any challenge in the primaries.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  98. Trump’s response was to try to order her fired

    The words “fire her” do not appear in Trump’s tantrum.

    “Get rid of her” and “Take her out” do.

    which he did to nobody in particular..

    He said it to a room full of organized crime figures with contacts in the region. None of them were in a position to “fire her”.

    They did have the capability to “get rid of her” or “take her out”, though.

    Dave (1bb933)

  99. Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/25/2020 @ 3:02 pm

    Despite denials from the Senators involved, Trump actually did threaten to put their heads on a pike, because they are abused and wish to protect their abuser. Seems clear.

    I don’t think so. And Trump is probably not imaginative or historically minded enough to use that kind of language.

    Which party is noted for false anonymous leaks??

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  100. Which party is noted for false anonymous leaks??

    It was CBS News who reported the alleged threat, citing “a confidant of the president”.

    Putin or Kim, perhaps?

    In any case, Schiff was relating a media report. He claimed no personal knowledge of the threat.

    Dave (1bb933)

  101. Lies worth calling out:

    False claim of Trump Jr. legal jeopardy forces NPR to issue correction
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/npr-issues-correction-after-falsely-accusing-trump-jr-of-being-in-legal-jeopardy-for-lying-to-senate

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  102. ”In any case, Schiff was relating a media report. He claimed no personal knowledge of the threat.”
    Dave (1bb933) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:32 am

    And he’s still relating it, even after the Senators involved flatly denied it.

    Lie, and still lying.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  103. “She’s going to go through some things …”

    This is how someone with slight aphasia talks.

    “Take her out.”

    Very simple language

    “He has not paid the price, yet …”

    Vague. Probably means to his political career. Trump’s always optimistic about winning elections. He may feel that Schiff is going to wind up getting disgraced. Remember, Trump wants Schiff called as a witness and cross-examined about his dealings with the whistleblower. Except for the fact that he’d like to have the trial over before the Superbowl.

    Now how doe any of these compare to:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/gop-senators-incensed-schiff-head-pike-remark-impeachment-trial-n1122761

    “CBS News reported last night that a Trump confidant said that key senators were warned, ‘Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.’ I don’t know if that’s true,” Schiff said.

    Schiff even admits it’s not certain it is true.

    Well, some Senators have told him it’s not.

    It’s also probably supposed to be “head on a spike

    This is something out of “Games of Throes” or “The Walking Dead” or out of 17th century England or its colonies:

    https://www.clubbedthumb.org/productions/2019/king-philips-head-is-still-on-that-pike-just-down-the-road

    That’s how a mobster talks about people he sees as personal enemies. And it’s coming from the president — who also believes that whatever he does is always irreproachable and nothing he says is ever wrong.

    That’s what Trump loyalists are defending — to the point of shielding him from any challenge in the primaries.

    Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:21 am

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  104. Trump’s response was to try to order her fired

    Trump apologists keep saying he had every right to fire an ambassador. But he didn’t do that. Like a mob boss, he wants other people to do the hit.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  105. False claim of Trump Jr. legal jeopardy forces NPR to issue correction

    Good for them.

    When will the White House start issuing corrections for Trump’s false claims?

    They have a bit of a backlog.

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. Dave (1bb933) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:21 am

    He said it to a room full of organized crime figures with contacts in the region. None of them were in a position to “fire her”.

    He said it to a room full of political donors.

    Unless Trump was running a “Murder Incoroporated” ,in which case there’d be other victims, it’s not a suggestion that someone arrange for an accident to happen to her. Where’s the Trump death list?

    Maybe Pomeo was afraid of that, though, when he had her recalled suddenly.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  107. “He has not paid the price, yet …”

    Vague. Probably means to his political career.

    It can also be read as a threat against a federal official in the performance of his duties — which is a crime.

    I’m always amazed at the willingness to put the most benign possible spin on Trump’s routinely appalling speech.
    And at the eagerness to call out possibly false statements by anyone opposed to Trump, while granting indulgence to Trump for his extraordinarily prolific lies.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  108. “a confidant of the president”.

    A lot of people can claim to be that, including persons trying to be on both sides.

    This is wheee secrecy can allow lies to be planted.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  109. “He has not paid the price, yet …”

    SF: Vague. Probably means to his political career.

    121. Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:46 am

    It can also be read as a threat against a federal official in the performance of his duties — which is a crime.

    I’m always amazed at the willingness to put the most benign possible spin on Trump’s routinely appalling speech.

    Why would you read it any differently?

    I think most likely Trump was thinking of the possibility of destroying Schiff in cross examination (he would overrate the possibility that the Senate would agree to call him as a witness.)

    Trump is of two minds about witnesses.

    And at the eagerness to call out possibly false statements by anyone opposed to Trump, while granting indulgence to Trump for his extraordinarily prolific lies.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  110. For all the Trump loyalists who keep insisting that all of the testimony is hearsay: They’re wrong.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  111. Sammy Finkelman (083d4c) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:49 am

    And at the eagerness to call out possibly false statements by anyone opposed to Trump, while granting indulgence to Trump for his extraordinarily prolific lies.

    Schiff’s meaning was clear – the issue is did he know it was false? If he knows the ways of Washington, he’d know this is unlikely.

    Schiff gets some demerits compared to Trump because he seems to be more knowledgeable than Trump.

    I’ll say this about Trump: Trump likes to re-tweet and repeat anything anybody ever said that comes down as favorable to him. regardless of its merit, even a National Enquirer story that somehow is supposed to link Ted Cruz to the assassination of President Kennedy.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  112. 124. Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 1/26/2020 @ 9:55 am

    For all the Trump loyalists who keep insisting that all of the testimony is hearsay: They’re wrong.

    As for me, I’m not a Trump loyalist, and talking about hearsay is silly.

    What I say, is that ? there’s not a shred of evidence, hearsay or not, that indicates that Donald Trump at any time, tried to link a White House meeting, or the denial of aid, to investigations.

    Gordon Sondland did, and he never said that he got it from Trump, or from Giuliani, and he always said he was guessing it might work.

    And when the question of a quid pro quo was put to Trump he denied that such an idea was in his mind, both to Senator Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and to Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland.

    This is uncontested.

    Now what Bolton and Mulvaney could make clear is what was the reason for the hold. (We know what the reason was not *, but it is not so clear what it was)

    And Giulliani and Lev Parnass and even Yuriy Lutsenko, who, although not an American citizen and not living in the United States, but, I think, currently in the United Kingdom, partially too improve his English, could make it clear what was the bassis for Giuiliani’s reporting and what he was reporting.

    ————–
    * We know it as not to force investigations because no attempt was made to do so, or even to tell Ukraine (although they found out anyway and so did some members of Congress) until after the Politico article appeared on August 28, and then when it did, the idea originated with Gordon Sondland and every bit of contemporaneous documentation, and his own testimony too, so indicates.

    He was keeping people in the loop but he didn’t get instructions to link them.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  113. Who is making the arguments that Justsecurity is reefuting?

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  114. 95. DRJ (15874d) — 1/26/2020 @ 8:35 am

    I applaud the results Trump is having on our Southern border. It took awhile, primarily because of opposition from groups but also because Trump approached the problem without thought or any plan. I am glad he is having success now.

    He’s doing the same thing Obama did – getting Mexico to do his dirty work,

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  115. This whole thing about the Hunan virus doesn’t make any sense. This is not worse than the flu – in fact it’s probably less serious, and we don’t have vaccines for every variety of flu.

    Michael Fmento has it right:

    https://nypost.com/2020/01/23/dont-buy-the-media-hype-over-the-new-china-virus

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  116. A temporary partial reversal f global warming isn’t welcomed by many people in Alaska:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/09/climate/alaska-abnormally-hot-march.html

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  117. Who is making the arguments that Justsecurity is reefuting?

    Lots of Trump supporters in Disqus comment sections, and they’re getting it from Hannity and the like.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  118. I think most likely Trump was thinking of the possibility of destroying Schiff in cross examination

    i.e., the “most likely” spin is the one that makes Trump look best.

    “And at the eagerness to call out possibly false statements by anyone opposed to Trump, while granting indulgence to Trump for his extraordinarily prolific lies.”

    Schiff’s meaning was clear – the issue is did he know it was false? If he knows the ways of Washington, he’d know this is unlikely.

    I was making a more general point about all the people who apply completely different rules to Trump vs. all others on whether lying is a terrible sin or something that only a partisan hater or “deranged” person would object to.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  119. ’I was making a more general point about all the people who apply completely different rules to Trump vs. all others on whether lying is a terrible sin or something that only a partisan hater or “deranged” person would object to.’
    Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/26/2020 @ 10:34 am

    Let’s let those who hold themselves out as politically and morally pure answer. That would be you.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  120. Trump defenders aren’t bothered by his habitual lying even when it’s comically obvious that he’s lying. But then, I’ve seen people say that Trump’s corruption is better than other people’s corruption because it’s out in the open …

    I might have expected a few of them to start questioning the mentality of someone who made an obvious, inept forgery on an official weather map rather than simply say “sorry, I misspoke.” But by then it was sadly predictable that they would purport to see derangement and dishonesty only in the people who called out Trump’s pathological dishonesty.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  121. Let’s let those who hold themselves out as politically and morally pure answer. That would be you.

    Show me where I have held myself out to be “politically and morally pure,” and then I might hang my head in shame for daring to wonder why Trump should get a blanket indulgence for wrongs that are condemned in others.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  122. I don’t feel very sorry for Mary Johnson (that’s Marie Yovanovitch in English). I’ll take Zelensky’s (he’s the President of Ukraine) word about her in the famous transcript:

    with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one. who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree·with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

    Like I’ve said before, it sounds to like this lady behaved more like a viceroy than an ambassador. Those career diplomats tend to forget that the exchange of diplomatic personnel is a mutual courtesy between nations. They think that because their jobs are protected by Civil Service back home, they’re secure in their foreign posts too. If she couldn’t show Zelensky due courtesy, than Trump was right to recall her.

    nk (1d9030)

  123. with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

    I still don’t know what that’s about.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  124. If she couldn’t show Zelensky due courtesy, than Trump was right to recall her.

    When Trump ordered her to be “taken out”, was he waiting for one of those gangsters he told to do it to actually, you know, do it? So it took him another year, for which most of that year Zelensky was not president, to fire her. It’s his right to recall any ambassador, it’s a 1 minute job to accomplish, and it’s obvious that it couldn’t have been a Zelensky thing, since he wasn’t president at the time.

    As someone said, the math doesn’t work. Trump’s an idiot, he doesn’t know things, even when he spouts off to do something, most of the time he doesn’t bother to follow through to actually do it. See every campaign promise.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (dcbd22)

  125. “They did have the capability to “get rid of her” or “take her out”, though.“
    _

    “ When the boss says push the button on a guy – I push the button, see, Senator?”

    Next up, Ciaramella:

    “Ukraine? I don’t know nothin’ about that. Oh! I was in the commercial real estate business with his father, but that was a long time ago. That’s all.”
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  126. What?? You mean he’s peddling that “head on a pike” story, just like Schiff?

    Re-read the NYT article (or read it the first time?) to remind yourself what we’re talking about here. You seem to be confused. We were talking about Pompeo’s interview with NPR. I mean, you’re not trying to derail the discussion or dishonestly avoid admitting evidence that shows your guy is a liar. So you must certainly then be confused.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  127. ‘Mike Pompeo graduated first in his class at West Point in 1986, became a tank commander, went to Harvard Law, became a Beltway lawyer, Kansas businessman, congressman, CIA director and, now, secretary of state.

    “There’s no doubt West Point impacted who I am,” Mr. Pompeo has said. “It has an enormous emphasis, not only on military aspects, but character development. Whether it’s the honor code, or the interactions you have … every place you are is a character test.

    In these days of qualifiers and codicils, the West Point honor code is concise and plain: “A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”‘ – source, NPR, 10/5/19

    But then, oaths about honor and service are mere words, eh Mikey? Yes, you’re quite the character; ‘no doubt’ the Army taught you lying well at West Point, eh Pompass? Just another graduate in the long grey line of liars– see William Westmorland for details.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. Axios
    @axios
    .
    Poll: Nine days before the Iowa caucuses, Elizabeth Warren’s support among polled Democrats has declined from 21% to 11% since an ABC News/WashPost poll in October.
    __ _

    Dave Coleman
    @dave_onion
    .
    Lol media kept it a float all by itself
    __ _

    Megaton
    @100MMegatons
    ·
    Looks like the people are tired of the media telling them who to vote for
    __ _

    Tom Foolery
    @ClydeFroggs
    ·
    Golly. Wonder what could have happened in the last several days. #SexistLyingBeeotch
    __ _

    LeeinDC
    @LeeInDc
    ·
    It must be because she’s pregnant or American Indian

    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  129. There’s still a little of the journalist in Fox’s Chris Wallace; watching him soil The Dersh’s clean underwear w/his own idiotic words for Viewer Trump to consume w/his Post Toasties and chocolate cake breakfast was grand entertainment. Almost as good as SNL’s roasting. Too bad TeeVee friendly Ben Matlock, Perry Mason or Clinton Judd weren’t available for your defense, eh, Captain, sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. On Meet the Press Chuck Todd said that the dinner with donors was n April 2018. Elsewhere I read May.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  131. Aw man

    RIP KOBE BRYANT

    Copter crash

    harkin (d6cfee)

  132. @145. Kobe Bryant and four others– their loss matters, too. Sad. Lots of fog and misty weather in SoCal region today; another impeachment diversion; ‘Trump luck.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. Adam Schiff said that the Russians offered dirt on Hillary Clinton and the Trump campaign agreed to receive t and they put it in writing. What he doesn’t say is that they delivered nothing.

    He days Trump doesn’t have the right to call irrelevant witnesses.

    Now the truth is, Giuliani and Parnas and Lutsenko are better witnesses. Schiff says that Hunter Biden can’t tell anything about the withholding of aid or a meeting. But he is pertinent to whether he had a basis for what he asked Ukraine for.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  134. Rep tweet: Donald J. Trump Retweeted

    Senate Republicans
    @SenateGOP

    SIX FACTS:

    1. Transcript shows no conditionality – True

    2. Zelensky says no pressure – Could be argued he has to say that. He also said that, though, in the July 25 call when he said Burisma case is important to them.

    3. Ukraine didn’t know aid paused – They did in fact, but Sondland et al didn’t know that they knew.

    They did know that they knew after Sept 1. A lot of the case involves what happened after that.

    4. Dem witnesses said POTUS didn’t want conditionality – True.

    5. Aid released, Ukraine did nothing for it – Dems say that was because he got caught.

    6. POTUS bolstered Ukraine support – True. In 2017. Dems say that proves reason for cutoff was to get Biden smeared.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  135. At the Torrey Pines golf tourney near Blacks, they’ve been showing that marine layer that us SoCals learned to love cause it kept people from going to the beach. I wonder if that was a factor (visibility).

    Some now saying Rick Fox on the flight too. Heck.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  136. It’d be nice to hear who the other 4 people are. But the news reports are all, KOBE DIES– and 4 others.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  137. Some are saying Rick Fox and his daughter too but haven’t seen it on any news source.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  138. CBS News reported last night that a Trump confidant said that key senators were warned, ‘Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.’ I don’t know if that’s true,” Schiff said.

    This is just the standard BS they’ve pulling ever since Trump got elected. Sources close to the WH, people familiar with the situation, People known by Trump, etc.

    Now its a “Confidant”. What is that? Is that a Present day “Confidant”? Or a “Confidant” who used to be but no longer is? Sometimes this anonymous sources have been made up. Sometimes they aren’t in any position to know anything. Sometimes they just lie. Sometimes the Press people just lie. Ah, sorry. “Make a mistake”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  139. No Anonymous source based story – that’s negative – from the MSM is worth taking seriously.

    Here’s what I think happened. Some CBS reporter talked to someone how used to work in the white house or worked with Trump. This person tells CBS “If they vote against Trump, he’ll probably have their head on a pike”. This goober is then exaggerated into a “trump confidante”, then SChiff can act like he’s just reporting “THE NEWS”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  140. “I mean, you’re not trying to derail the discussion or dishonestly avoid admitting evidence that shows your guy is a liar. So you must certainly then be confused.”
    Patterico (115b1f) — 1/26/2020 @ 11:40 am

    The discussion could be about lies generally and which ones merit being called out, or the discussion could be about how only Trump team lies are worth discussing. I guess there are other possibilities. In any case, I don’t think it was clear, this being an open thread.

    Munroe (7b400a)

  141. Fox OK.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  142. I have no idea if the ‘heads on a pike’ thing is true or not.

    What it does show is the TDS media’s willingness to run w anything they feel helps their side before confirmation or clarification. It’s just a much more involved version of Trump pouring out goldfish food and all the Chicken Littles saying: “Look, LOOK how horrible he is!” when what they are doing is pointing at themselves.

    [Cue George Stephanopolis making the throat cut gesture]
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  143. Trump once tweeted using fnnts from “game of Thrones” so I suppose that makes the “heads on a pike” statement plausible. Or why else is this plausible?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  144. Post on Kobe Bryant’s death is up. Just a link, no info. It can be updated as we learn more.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  145. @150. America’s “Celebrity Culture” in a nutshell: KNX News Radio out of LA reported Kobe death as one of those moments “you’ll remember where you were when and you heard like the JFK assassination…”

    No. Don’t think so. This ain’t Pearl Harbor or an assassination. Don’t have the day Payne Stewart or Thurmon Munson or Arnold Palmer or Mickey Mantle… or Princess Diana… don’t pine for particulars of the days Knute Rockne… or Will Rogers… or Amelia Earhart, etc., left us. Won’t for Bryant, either.

    But we’ll remember what Trump tweets– just as he remembers what happened at Pearl Harbor.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  146. “ The discussion could be about lies generally and which ones merit being called out, or the discussion could be about how only Trump team lies are worth discussing. I guess there are other possibilities. In any case, I don’t think it was clear, this being an open thread.”
    _

    I had written a response:

    “Third option: making a point about lies.
    Probably didn’t think the
    sarc tag was necessary.”
    _

    But I figured that might get taken wrong too.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  147. General Someimani was killed before he could so anything ore in Iraq, but after he had visited Lebanon:

    https://www.meforum.org/60331/lebanons-first-hezbollah-controlled-government

    For the first time ever, Lebanon has a government in which only Hezbollah and its allies are represented…

    … Demonstrators were demanding the formation of a government of “technocrats” qualified to address the urgent issues facing the country and untainted by contact with Lebanon’s enormously corrupt political parties.

    The new government appears to be an attempt to create the superficial appearance of such an administration. Its 20 ministers were presented by Prime Minister Hassan Diab as “specialists,” nonpartisan and without loyalties to this or that political bloc.

    Few Lebanese are likely to be convinced by this claim. The “specialists” in question are individuals whose names were put forward by the political parties. The composition of the new government emerged in a process of wrangling and horse trading between these parties.

    But, crucially, parties and movements broadly associated with the West and with Saudi Arabia stayed out of the negotiations. Individuals linked to prominent pro-Western and anti-Iranian political trends, such as the former prime minister’s Mustaqbal (Future) Movement and the Christian Lebanese Forces, are not to be found among the new ministers. The Progressive Socialist Party of Lebanese Druze leader Walid Jumblatt is also not represented.

    The government that has emerged from this process comprises individuals linked to movements that are part of only one of the existing power structures – the one associated with Hezbollah and Iran.

    The new administration is being described by Lebanese commentators as a government of “one color,” Lebanon’s first of this kind. The color is that of Hezbollah and Iran’s banners.

    Hezbollah itself controls only two ministries in the new government. But the Christian Free Patriotic Movement, led by Gebran Bassil, and the Shia Amal movement, both closely associated with Hezbollah, control much of the rest. Smaller parties also associated with this bloc make up the remainder…

    …Hezbollah’s 50,000-strong armed forces obey the edict of no government in Beirut.

    On October 31, 2016, long-standing Hezbollah ally Gen. Michel Aoun assumed the presidency of Lebanon

    Three of Lebanon’s four intelligence services – the General Directorate of General Security, the Military Intelligence Directorate and the State Security Directorate – are headed by individuals appointed by Aoun and approved by Hezbollah. The fourth, the Internal Security Forces, once constituted a potent Sunni-led intelligence organization, associated with anti-Syrian and anti-Hezbollah forces. Today, headed by Imad Othman, it no longer plays this role.

    Following the elections of May 2018, Hezbollah and its allies dominated the legislature and executive. They controlled 74 seats in the 128-member parliament, and 19 of 30 cabinet portfolios. But until the resignation of prime minister Saad Hariri in October 2019, the facade of a coalition government continued. This situation was amenable to the Hezbollah-controlled deep state. It enabled normal relations with international institutions, including financial ones, and ensured the continued flow of US and European aid.

    As of this week, however, the ambiguity appears to have cleared. Formal power in Lebanon now coincides with real power…..

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  148. “ No. Don’t think so. This ain’t Pearl Harbor or an assassination.”

    So weird.

    Just had this conversation w a buddy of mine.

    To me the big three of my lifetime were (chronologically):

    JFK shot
    Challenger explosion
    9/11.

    I can’t think of anything that even comes close to those.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  149. 160. Princess Diana yes, especially on the part of women.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  150. Meanwhile…..

    Prince Charles flew 16,000 miles in just 11 days using three private jets and one helicopter before proudly posing with Greta Thunberg in Davos

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7929735/Prince-Charles-flew-16-000-miles-just-11-days-proudly-posing-Greta-Thunberg-Davos.html

    Super serial.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  151. Why is it that comment threads in blogs bring out the middle-schooler in all of us?

    Someone lied? Like, really? Like you are surprised? No, you aren’t surprised. you only care that they lied so you can use that information as a bludgeon for your side of an argument.

    I am almost certain that everyone lies. Every politician, for sure. They have to at times, or their career would be over. Sometimes they get caught.

    So Pompeo lied about the incident revolving around an interview and the temper-tantrum he had afterwards. B. F. D. Seriously. Who died because of this lie? I am sure Pompeo told worse ones, ones with bigger importance. And maybe those lies were useful to tell. In this case, it is a useless lie. Likely he lied in the same way I might lie. In the heat of the moment because I did not want to admit even to myself that it was a stupid thing to do so I deny it. Then I am record denying it and then I might double-down, and then things spiral and then all the church ladies get the vapors.

    Sometimes people lie to brag or embellish.

    But some lies matter. Lies told in court or similar in effort to mislead people or to influence the outcome of a case. These lies matter. Lies told with malice aforethought, told knowing that that the truth was different, but told in a way to have an “out” when they are exposed later. Maybe like saying Trump said head on a pike, when you know there was no evidence, only a potential report of it. What evidentiary value did that statement have other than to sway opinion?

    So we discount the lies our guys tell and play up the lies of the other guys and then we get into pissing matches about the trivial things. The integrity of the speaker matters in as much as they are on record claiming specific knowledge and their statements are corroborated by facts. If they have a history of playing fast and loose with the facts to mislead, then you discount the veracity of their claims and accept only that which is independently verified.

    I wish there was more time discussing verified facts rather than schoolyard arguments on the order of “your guy lies”, “well your guy lies about his lies”, “oh yeah? your guy lies so bad the fire department dedicates a truck to follow him around to put his pants out every 5 minutes.”

    As Althouse might say. Boring.

    WaBlogLog (c0df72)

  152. @163. It’s the ‘celebrity culture’ mentality.

    You just don’t matter– unless your life is on the TeeVee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  153. Didn’t want to put this in the Kobe thread because….well, you’ll see (and hear).

    https://twitter.com/rumchampion/status/1221528688438759425?s=20

    Since MSNBC champions cancel culture their response will be interesting.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  154. @168- Well, that female reporter did go on and on a bit earlier in the telecast about her husband, who is from Los Angeles, and how he was so totally into the Lakers and how much it was a part of LA life and “culture.”

    That’s just the popculture world we’ve created. The reaction is inevitably disproportional in these times. Recall the fleet choppercams following Michael Jackson’s corpse from place to place televising it on every channel. Went on for days. Just so odd.

    When Chris Kraft passed, few knew or cared outside of Houston or a small cadre in the space community people– but then, he never sold a zillion records or tossed a basketball… all he did was invent NASA’s Mission Control and guide men to the moon. But once upon a time, he was on the cover of Time. Such is what passes for American “culture.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. 166. WaBlogLog (c0df72) — 1/26/2020 @ 1:55 pm

    Maybe like saying Trump said head on a pike, when you know there was no evidence, only a potential report of it.

    It wasn’t that really that Trump said it, but that people were saying it in his name (and nobody who got such a message or was told to deliver it complained)

    CBS News reported last night that a Trump confidant said that key senators were warned, ‘Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.’ I don’t know if that’s true,” Schiff said.

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

  156. @166, that’s a lot of words to write for a topic you say is boring. Personally I think a Sec State that lacks basic integrity is new worthy. I think it’s worth talking about and i think it’s interesting. But that’s just me.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  157. The number of soldiers reported injured by the Iran missile strike into Iraq is now up to 50. (all apparently “traumatic brain injury”)

    Sammy Finkelman (083d4c)

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