Patterico's Pontifications

1/18/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:29 am



[guest post by Dana]

Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item: The staggering freedom of forgiveness:

Second news item: This isn’t hard to believe:

What exactly went down during a July 2017 meeting at the Pentagon between President Donald Trump and his military leaders has long been the subject of speculation. One of the tantalizing details that’s been previously reported is that, whatever took place, it provoked then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to call his commander in chief “a fucking moron.”

Now an excerpt of a new book published in The Washington Post demonstrates exactly what tipped Tillerson over the edge. An account of the meeting in the upcoming book A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump’s Testing of America depicts Trump becoming increasingly angry as his generals tried to teach him the fundamental basics of American post-war history.

[…]

The book states that the meeting took place six months into Trump’s presidency after his generals became concerned about “gaping holes” in Trump’s knowledge of America’s key alliances…However, the meeting seems to have descended into chaos almost immediately….

The president reportedly called Afghanistan a “loser war,” and told his military leaders: “You’re all losers… You don’t know how to win anymore… I want to win… We don’t win any wars anymore… We spend $7 trillion, everybody else got the oil and we’re not winning anymore.” It’s reported that Trump was so angry at this point that he wasn’t breathing properly.

…Trump—a man who, remember, managed to get out of military duty in Vietnam due to a supposed bone-spur problem—is said to have told the assembled forces, “I wouldn’t go to war with you people… You’re a bunch of dopes and babies.”

The comment reportedly left the room dumbfounded. Tillerson was “visibly seething,” and decided to speak up. The secretary of state said, “No, that’s just wrong… Mr. President, you’re totally wrong. None of that is true.” When the meeting ended soon afterward, Tillerson reportedly stood with a small group of confidants and said, “He’s a fucking moron.”

Third news item: Radio Sputnik…in Kansas City:

A Kansas City area radio station can broadcast Russian state-owned media programming, the type that U.S. intelligence called a “propaganda machine,” for six hours a day through a lease agreement struck by a local radio operator.

RM Broadcasting LLC, a Florida-based company that has agreements to broadcast the Russian state media program Radio Sputnik, reached a deal on Jan. 1 to lease air time through Alpine Broadcasting Corp. in Liberty. Alpine Broadcasting Corp. broadcasts on three frequencies in the Kansas City area: KCXL 1140 AM, 102.9 FM and 104.7 FM.

… KCXL’s website… says that it’s the radio station that will “tell you the things that the liberal media wont (sic) tell you,” lists Radio Sputnik in its morning programming.

Fourth news item: Losing the championship to cheating Houston Astros isn’t sitting well with L.A. Dodgers fans:

The Dodgers are not scheduled to play the Houston Astros next season. That would seem to spare the Astros the in-person wrath of Dodgers fans.

Unless, of course, Dodgers fans bring their wrath to the Astros. And the baseball gods have teed this one up for Dodgers fans: The Astros play their first weekend road series this year at Angel Stadium.

So we checked with Pantone 294, the Dodgers fan group that has delivered as many as 2,200 diehards to a Dodgers road game. And, yeah, Pantone 294 is thinking about chartering a fleet of buses, packing them with a thousand or more Dodgers fans, and forming a caravan down Interstate 5 to greet the Astros in Anaheim.

And a class action lawsuit is being considered:

One of the many Los Angeles Dodgers fans outraged by the Houston Astros’ actions in the 2017 season, which ended in a World Series loss for the L.A. team, said he and his friends were considering filing a class-action lawsuit.

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred suspended Astros manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow on Monday before the team fired them over violation of rules against the use of video equipment to steal signs during matches.

“We’re looking for an attorney,” said Jose “Bluebeard” Lara of Montebello on Tuesday, citing losses that include money paid for parking, Dodger dogs and beer.

“It’s not cheap to go to a Dodger game anymore,” he added.

Lara said he’s received numerous inquiries from fellow fans who want to join the lawsuit.

Fifth news item: It’s quite possible to hold two correct thoughts in your head at the same time: a) CNN unquestionably, and loyally favors Democrats b) Elected officials on both sides of the aisle are grifters, and grifters are gonna grift:

As Sen. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) walked through the hallways of the Senate Thursday, CNN senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju asked her if the Senate should consider “new evidence as part of the impeachment trial.” McSally shot back: “Manu, you’re a liberal hack. I’m not talking to you.”

“You’re not going to comment about this?” a dazed Raju asked. “You’re a liberal hack, buddy,” McSally replied as she walked away. Predictably, conservatives cheered, while mainstream media decried McSally’s move as unbecoming.

[…]

The problem isn’t that Raju asked the question — that’s his job, after all. It’s that virtually all questions posed by political reporters these days are framed to support the narratives and assumptions of one political party, the Democrats.

Fundraising follows, of course:

She’s selling tee shirts, asking for donations and making the rounds of Fox News shows touting the name calling. Some shirts bear the phrase “You’re a liberal hack, buddy.”

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

293 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (643cd6)

  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVmKleE7xcE
    Beluga whale playing fetch

    mg (8cbc69)

  3. The friends of Jeffrey Epstein are doing very very well for themselves.

    JRH (52aed3)

  4. Yes, he is a flipping moron. And yet I agree with him on 19 out of the 20 issues the WaPo posed, and his closest Democrat competitor scored 10 out of 20.

    Either that means I’m a moron (don’t think so) or that the Democrats are idiots or imbeciles.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  5. The Red Sox may have cheated in 2018, too. I’m not sure about the Nationals.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  6. KCXL’s website… says that it’s the radio station that will “tell you the things that the liberal media wont (sic) tell you,” lists Radio Sputnik in its morning programming.

    What a country!

    Kevin M (19357e)

  7. Why is it cheating, or even against the rules, to steal the other team’s signals? It should be accepted as part of the game. What’s next? A rule like this:

    The catcher shall inform the batter that he is about to signal the next pitch to the pitcher. The batter shall immediately close his eyes and turns his head towards the on-deck circle. Failure by the batter to do so will automatically make the pitch a strike.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. Why is it cheating, or even against the rules, to steal the other team’s signals? It should be accepted as part of the game.

    It is.

    Using a TV in the dug-out to do it is the illegal part.

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. It defies belief that supposedly conservative listeners would tune in to Putin propaganda.
    Trump’s comment that “I’ve completed more promises than I’ve made” is not only logically impossible but false. In almost three years on the job, he’s broken more promises than kept.
    The Parnas news keeps dribbling out, the latest being the string of text messages between Parnas and Nunes aide Derek Harvey, who was previously hired by Michael Flynn at the NSC before McMaster sacked him, which should tell anyone that Harvey is just as big a tool as Nunes. And of course the story involves my favorite opinion columnist, the prime media purveyor of FakeNews on Ukraine.

    In March, Parnas sent Harvey a link to a story by conservative columnist John Solomon suggesting the Ukrainians sought to help Hillary Clinton win in 2016.
    “Any documents for us or are you going to keep working through Solomon?” the Nunes aide texted back a few days later.
    Parnas responded that he was out of the country but would meet with Harvey upon his return.
    In April, Harvey sent Parnas contact information for the congressman, the messages show. And Harvey set up several in-person meetings, including with key individuals around Giuliani who were most involved in the Biden effort.
    “We are at trump with Rudy and John Solomon and joe in private room,” Parnas wrote the Nunes aide on May 7, apparently inviting him to the Trump International Hotel to meet with Giuliani, as well as Solomon and Joe DiGenova, a lawyer working with Giuliani.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  10. I hasn’t escaped me that it’s a California team which is a complaining, either. Tofu-eating snowflakes!

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Even Bobby Thompson’s shot heard round the world, maybe the most famous moment and call in baseball:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-final-twist-in-an-epic-baseball-swindle-11577377811

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  12. …then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to call his commander in chief “a fvcking moron.”

    In retrospect, it may just be Tillerson who ends up looking the like the ‘fvcking moron’ to history for leaving his powerful, global gig as head of Exxon-Mobil, a nation-state in itself, to work for Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. Trumps criticism may have been useful for motivating the generals, for all I know. Tillerson’s problem seems to be that he dislikes Trump’s style of management and leadership. I will judge by the results. If our military performs well, than I support Trump’s tirade. If our military f*cks up, I will oppose Trump’s tirade.

    David in Cal (f8ea8c)

  14. 13. I don’t care what side of the political aisle you’re on. If you’re still living in California, your judgement of such concepts as “leadership” is automatically suspect to me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  15. ‘maybe the most famous moment and call in baseball’

    Maybe not: The Greatest Homerun Ever: Bill Mazeroski 1960

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE1nYMg-jU4

    Forbes Field – Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: On October 13, 1960 @3:36 PM, Pittsburgh Pirate Hall of Fame Second Baseman, Bill Mazeroski, hits the greatest and most memorable homerun in MLB history. Dad/Grandad were there to see it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. The president reportedly called Afghanistan a “loser war,” and told his military leaders: “You’re all losers… You don’t know how to win anymore… I want to win… We don’t win any wars anymore… We spend $7 trillion, everybody else got the oil and we’re not winning anymore.” It’s reported that Trump was so angry at this point that he wasn’t breathing properly.

    Of course the irony is that the Pentagon brass has gotten kind of complacent and stale in their cozy sinecures and could use a bit of prodding to maybe consider some new perspectives and strategies. I mean, does anyone think that our adventures in Iraq after deposing Saddam Hussein were particularly well-planned or executed? And though the Bush Administration deserves a large share of the blame, it was certainly the generals and the CIA bureaucracy who did such an awful job of reading and adapting to the situation on the ground.

    That said, naturally President Trump goes about “motivating” them in the absolutely stupidest and most ineffective way. His problem is that he still thinks he’s living on a reality TV show and everything he does is therefore geared to look good on camera, once it gets reassembled in the editing room naturally.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  17. I’m not quite sure what to make of this article.

    But the gist of it seems to be that Republicans are racist, and racist voting is somehow unconstitutional, so their votes should be cancelled.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  18. Dodger fans ought to sit tight while this whole thing plays out. The rumors are that something like eight other MLB teams are being investigated for using technology to steal signs, so would it really surprise anybody if the Dodgers are one of the culprits?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  19. Dodger fans ought to sit tight while this whole thing plays out.

    Yes, the Dodgers are hardly ones to complain about cheating. I remember — many years ago — how the team hid the fact that Don Sutton doctored baseballs while pitching, and then ratted him out the minute he left the team.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  20. This cheating scandal ought to serve as reinforcement of what a horrible idea it was to implement instant replay in baseball. In fact, I am generally against using replay in any sport to change calls on the field, though I can tolerate using it to determine clock-related issues. Just because Armando Gallaraga got screwed out of a perfect game was no reason to panic and put in a system that has brought in more problems than it fixed. And woe to baseball if the automated strike zone ends up catching on and is brought into the major leagues.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  21. ‘…using technology to steal signs…’

    Back in the day it was the technology of =drumroll= paper and pencil. Ball clubs have been at each other’s ‘stealing signs’ since the game began.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. Back in the day it was the technology of =drumroll= paper and pencil. Ball clubs have been at each other’s ‘stealing signs’ since the game began.

    True, but for the longest of time it has been illegal to steal them from the stands and then relay them to the dugout or field. The yankees were caught using telescopes and walkie-talkies to steal signs in their championship 1977 season (they had been given permission to use this set-up to relay defensive alignment suggestions) but were merely fined something piddly like $1000 and told to stop doing it.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  23. Trumps criticism may have been useful for motivating the generals, for all I know. Tillerson’s problem seems to be that he dislikes Trump’s style of management and leadership.

    Oh, so the generals weren’t really “motivated” until Trump called them dopes and babies?
    It’s unlikely that Trump-apologists would view that as an inspired kind of “management and leadership” coming from any other president. Somehow it’s all good coming from President Bone-Spurs, who doesn’t read and has trouble digesting information.

    This administration has had an extraordinary number of people who found Trump’s “style of management and leadership” insufferable. You might think an exceptionally high turnover (and vacancy) rate in a presidential administration is a “result” that doesn’t speak well of the president. But Trumpists keep insisting that those who leave are incapable of understanding Trump’s genius, or they’re haters from the Deep State.

    It’s odd how any dislike of anything Trump does must always be the fault of the disliker; it can’t ever be that Trump does anything deserving of criticism. Which of course is Trump’s own view of things.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  24. @22. Yeah, but ‘calling them out’ on it just makes the accused look like losers. They’re sorta making more out of it than necessary IMO– it’s not like they were going full blown Black Sox. Sign stealing is part of the game– like an ump makin’ a bad call. It’s almost as if this is more important to the betters in Vegas than the batters in the box.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. I mean, does anyone think that our adventures in Iraq after deposing Saddam Hussein were particularly well-planned or executed? And though the Bush Administration deserves a large share of the blame, it was certainly the generals and the CIA bureaucracy who did such an awful job of reading and adapting to the situation on the ground.

    The error was initially trying to do occupation with a small footprint.

    Still, the insurgency was defeated by 2007, about three years after it began.

    This graph puts our decisive victory in Iraq into perspective.

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. Breaking News out of London: “Ono”… hello, Yoko Markle.

    QE2 has spoken: she is not amused.

    “Off with their heads!” — Well, HRH titles, anyway.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. This is the news that DCSCA is referring to. The one who is really getting screwed royally (ha, I crack myself up) is little Archie, who is going to reach the age of ten or so and suddenly say, “Wait, my parents gave up that life so that I could live with the third generation of Kardashians here in Bel Air?”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  28. I’ve updated the post with the McSally kerfuffle:

    Fifth news item: It’s quite possible to hold two correct thoughts in your head at the same time: a) CNN unquestionably, and loyally favors Democrats b) Elected officials on both sides of the aisle are grifters, and grifters are gonna grift:

    As Sen. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) walked through the hallways of the Senate Thursday, CNN senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju asked her if the Senate should consider “new evidence as part of the impeachment trial.” McSally shot back: “Manu, you’re a liberal hack. I’m not talking to you.”

    “You’re not going to comment about this?” a dazed Raju asked. “You’re a liberal hack, buddy,” McSally replied as she walked away. Predictably, conservatives cheered, while mainstream media decried McSally’s move as unbecoming.

    […]

    The problem isn’t that Raju asked the question — that’s his job, after all. It’s that virtually all questions posed by political reporters these days are framed to support the narratives and assumptions of one political party, the Democrats.

    Fundraising follows, of course:

    She’s selling tee shirts, asking for donations and making the rounds of Fox News shows touting the name calling. Some shirts bear the phrase “You’re a liberal hack, buddy.”

    Dana (643cd6)

  29. @27. Exactly. Like you’re gonna buy a set of bedsheets for $500 marketed w/their names stamped on it? “Yoko” is gonna be doin’ Dannon Yogurt commercials in 5 years; one stupid broad.

    Harry is the new Eric Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. Allahpundit has his own, characteristically tongue-in-cheek, take on McSally:

    I’ve changed my mind about this episode. Until this moment I viewed it as a pitifully cynical attempt to convert right-wing grievances about the media (particularly CNN) into cash. She clearly doesn’t have any real beef with reporter Manu Raju. He was a target of opportunity because Trumpers in Arizona don’t much like her and aren’t giving money to her and if that doesn’t change soon we’re going to have two Democratic senators from Goldwater country.

    And in both cases they’ll have defeated Martha McSally to make it happen. She could singlehandedly turn Arizona blue.

    She needed to give Trump fans a reason to donate to her so she manufactured that reason. Simple as that. Sad, as the president might say.

    But then I watched this video and now I feel better about her “liberal hack” stunt. She’s totally owning this grift. How “cynical” can a moneymaking political ploy be if the pol behind it is all but wearing a “LET ME GRIFT YOU” t-shirt? She can barely get through the clip with a straight face, so transparent are her motives.

    It’s downright wholesome. We need more honesty like this in American politics.

    Read the whole thing.

    As Allahpundit points out, she was later asked the identical question by notorious Trump shill liberal hack Laura Ingraham on state-run media FoxNews.

    Dave (1bb933)

  31. @26 and 27 I suspect the behind the scenes stuff is far more complicated and probably contains far more family resentments than we will ever know. However, as I said in the earlier topic on Harry and Megan, we’re Americans, why should we care about what a bunch of inbred “noble” Brits think the “royals” should be doing?

    Nic (896fdf)

  32. @31. Well, the suggestion is they’ll ventually end up in the U.S. by way of Canada so some town, someplace, is going to be burdened w/added security costs in some fashion.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. @32 Could be, though I suspect that even without the HRH title, Harry would get far more advantages living in Canada than in the States. And British Columbia is pretty nice and has a pretty large film industry if that is the direction Meg wants to go back to. Toronto isn’t bad either if you don’t mind the cold and snow.

    Nic (896fdf)

  34. I hadn’t seen that, Dave. Pretty amusing. The thing is though, no one is credible any longer, so everyone just falls in with their tribe. I suppose it should be sad, but cynicism typically begets a bitter amusement.

    Dana (643cd6)

  35. Speaking of Viet-Nam war photos…..

    The Story Behind Eddie Adams’ Iconic “Saigon Execution” Photo

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/saigon-execution

    It’s still being used as propaganda.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  36. [W]hy should we care about what a bunch of inbred “noble” Brits think the “royals” should be doing?

    Because this story is a hell of a lot more fun than anything we’ve going going on here right now?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  37. why should we care about what a bunch of inbred “noble” Brits think the “royals” should be doing?

    Show some respect for your betters.

    Dave (d08084)

  38. Elizabeth/Phillip 2020

    Dave (d08084)

  39. #31 — Harry seems to be essentially a regular bloke at heart, far from William’s “sure I could be king” personality. He go along really well with someone (Chelsea Davy) who didn’t want to live in the royal fishbowl. Then he found someone who apparently wanted the glamor, but not the obligation.

    I’m not prepared to pronounce upon the extent which he should subordinate self to duty and tradition, when he was only sixth in line to the throne, and he has only one life on this earth.

    I took a liking to a (minor) celeb who realized he didn’t want to be famous anymore and has removed himself from the public eye as thoroughly as he can, which I deeply understand. Occasionally the public eye finds him and announces his whereabouts, and then I’m torn between a vulture-like curiosity and indignation over yet another invasion of someone’s privacy.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  40. Elizabeth/Phillip 2020

    Seventy more years!
    Seventy more years!

    JVW (54fd0b)

  41. Seventy more years!
    Seventy more years!

    :-)

    We could do worse.

    We will do worse…

    Dave (d08084)

  42. QE2 has spoken: she is not amused.

    Actually she’s very serene, as always:

    “Following many months of conversations and more recent discussions, I am pleased that together we have found a constructive and supportive way forward for my grandson and his family,” the Queen said today in a statement. “Harry, Meghan and Archie will always be much loved members of my family.”

    The Queen added: “I recognise [sic] the challenges they have experienced as a result of intense scrutiny over the last two years and support their wish for a more independent life. I want to thank them for all their dedicated work across this country, the Commonwealth and beyond, and am particularly proud of how Meghan has so quickly become one of the family. It is my whole family’s hope that today’s agreement allows them to start building a happy and peaceful new life.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. Meghan is too woke to live in the States while Trump is president.

    Because nothing says feminist and SJW like marrying Prince Charming.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  44. Because nothing says feminist and SJW like marrying Prince Charming.

    Hey, she gave up a B-list acting career on some TV show nobody watched to join the royal family! Talk about your sacrifices for love.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  45. Why, it’s enough to make Grace Kelly look ordinary by comparison.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  46. Since this is an open thread and any topic is allowed, I want to comment about this blog.

    This has been a blog where people talk about many things but, much of the time, law and legal issues were a big part of the subject matter. Several lawyers commented here, and non-lawyer commenters were conversant about the legal issues or interested in discussing them. This wasn’t a law blog but people were interested in talking about relevant legal issues while discussing the news of the day.

    Now it seems like caring about legal issues is viewed with skepticism or disdain, like falling for political/media games or engaging in useless semantics. Sadly, I understand why people feel that way but I think it is too bad they do.

    DRJ (15874d)

  47. Hi DRJ, nice to see you.

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. DRJ (15874d) — 1/18/2020 @ 1:23 pm

    “Lawfare” became a word for a reason. Does that term elicit disdain for you, or good vibes?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  49. Great news! The navy is naming its next ford class aircraft carrier after african-american pearl harbor attack war hero doris miller! He won the navy cross for courageous action during the attack. Miller should have been awarded the congressional medal of honor ;but no african-american was awarded medal of honor during world war II. ( we all know why ) When the pearl harbor attack medals were announced doris miller was listed as an unnamed negro mess attendant winning the navy cross! The black press had to investigate to find out his name. Sadly miller was killed in action when the aircraft carrier he was serving on was sunk by japanese navy in 1943.

    asset (d7ad43)

  50. 36. Truth ain’t propaganda; see The Pentagon Papers for details.

    Besides, there’s more than just Eddie’s stills to that street execution; there’s the NBC News film of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dptl5yeSNk

    Funny how NBC always had cameras on scene rolling to catch these murders as they happened. Though it was NBC cameras that caught and broadcast Ruby killing Oswald live, Bob Jackson’s still of the killing won the day– and the Pulitzer.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. @50. Will our Captain permit it or scuttle it along w/t USS Barack H. Obama? Or is it that he wants the carrier USS Donald J. Trump built when they cost $25 billion so it’s the yuggest and most expensive?! He has already wrecked the color schemes for the fleet of AF1s. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. @34. It’s obvious he’s become quite PW’d. He’s only known that royal lifestyle to protect and serve, too. He’ll go where ‘Yoko’ wants to go.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. Hi DRJ, and happy 2020.

    Obviously one of the issues is that only one of the three regular bloggers these days is a lawyer. I won’t speak for Dana, but I don’t feel all that qualified to lead any discussions of legal issues, though from time to time I do throw the floor open for learned opinions of the legal community. But my real blogging focus, as readers have probably noticed, is California dysfunction, obituaries, and various celebrity piffle.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  54. He’ll go where ‘Yoko’ wants to go.

    Maybe, but it appears that Harry’s discomfort with being a royal and with having cameras on him predated Meghan. But it’s an odd dynamic, given that her interest in him seems to have run in the opposite direction.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  55. Using a TV in the dug-out to do it is the illegal part.

    They had closed-circuit cameras aimed at the catcher from the stands.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  56. @47. You know what strikes me, DRJ, is how difficult it is for ‘lawyers’ to apply their experience to an impeachment trial that is less a matter strict legalities, as in a conventional courtroom trial, to wht is more a political trial, where conventional courtroom procedures and basic law they’re comfortable with may not always apply. Almost like watching fish try to swim through air currents.

    For example, it can perplex busy Americans– casual observers– to understand how somebody like Senate Majority Leader McConnell [or Graham for that matter] can state publicly he’s not an objective juror/judge and coordinating w/t White House going into this then piously swear under oath on Thursday he is. It makes a mockery of oath-taking; most Americans would figure they’d get bumped from a jury pool for saying that.

    Or Dershowitz insisting he’s not working for the Trump defense team but ‘the Constitution.’ Sure would like to know when a few pieces of parchment talked to him, hired him– and if he’s getting paid for his services in paperclips or staples.

    It just all comes off as disingenuous if not farcical to the folks driving nails and schools buses–or on jury duty.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. I hasn’t escaped me that it’s a California team which is a complaining, either. Tofu-eating snowflakes!

    “We wuz robbed!” is a tradition going back to Brooklyn.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  58. @55. That’s the gig– live ‘like a king’– cut ribbons, get your picture took. Oh-so-hard.

    It’s a sweet life.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. Sadly, I understand why people feel that way but I think it is too bad they do.

    When the law is spun so badly in the public arena, where “emolument” is taken to mean “bought something from his business” or we parse the meaning of words like “wound” or “is”, many non-lawyers lose track of what is a legal argument and figure any BS is OK.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  60. In retrospect, it may just be Tillerson who ends up looking the like the ‘fvcking moron’ to history for leaving his powerful, global gig as head of Exxon-Mobil, a nation-state in itself, to work for Trump.

    I guess the concept of “sacrifice for Country” is alien to you.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  61. the team hid the fact that Don Sutton doctored baseballs while pitching, and then ratted him out the minute he left the team.

    Or how they knew that some players were juicing, and when it became a problem, traded them.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  62. 51 – the deportation witch hunt lost. Even Jimmy Carter called it historical revisionism and folly when he stepped on the braying mob.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  63. Yeah, but ‘calling them out’ on it just makes the accused look like losers.

    Next folks that get caught might well BE the Black Sox. The penalty was significant enough, ending two careers, that the next folks that get caught will have the book thrown at them.

    Me, I would have fined the team $30 million, since this didn’t happen without a lot of people knowing.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  64. The error was initially trying to do occupation with a small footprint.

    There was supposed to be a force coming down from Turkey, to prevent Iraqi Army elements from coalescing in Anwar. Turkey stabbed us in the back at the last moment, and the retreating Iraqis had a place to hole up. This cost us time, and quite a few lives.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  65. No, DCSCA has it right. As everybody knows, baseball is fixed, just like any other sport, and these guys deviated from the script, risking the MLB and sundry gamblers who knows how much money. At least they didn’t get their legs broken.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. Funny how NBC always had cameras on scene rolling to catch these murders as they happened

    What happened to that VC guerilla was not murder, it was a LAWFUL battlefield execution of an illegal combatant, who had just participated in several atrocities against civilians.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  67. McSally is in a tough re-election campaign and lost her last time due to Trumpies sitting on their hands. This time she’s going to toss them some red meat. Her actions are no worse that some blogger calling her a grifter.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  68. I am going to bet you also that this guy harassed her all the way down the hall until she finally reacted, and that’s the film they show. And good for her. There was no invective in it, just a “go away and stop bothering me” kind of response.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  69. Hi, Dave.

    JVW, many of the most interesting discussions I recall were initiated as much by the commenters as the bloggers. The comments were interesting because of the wide range of views by lawyers and non-lawyers on how we get to a better society. But just as I doubt many people care much about how to fix journalism (which arguably was at the heart of this blog during its early years), I don’t think many now are interested in thinking or talking about legal issues. (See, for example, Munroe.) I understand it. Times change and blogs change, but I miss that discussion because I think those topics were important and made me a better, wiser person.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. It was during the Tet Offensive, right? The American victory that the media reported as a defeat and were believed?

    nk (dbc370)

  71. @38 Je pense que non. Mon grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand (beaucoup des autre grand) pere etait Charlemagne. Les Windsors sont nouveau. (at least, that’s the family story, though I can legit trace that side of the family back to turn of the last millenium. My gr-grandmother married an American soldier and got dramatically thrown out of the family on her behind. Penniless too. I’m told it was quite the scene. Gr. Grands did OK in the end though, even through the Depression. :P)

    Nic (896fdf)

  72. @68. You do know why former space shuttle astronaut [STS-108/STS-121/STS-124/STS-134] and Gulf War Navy veteran Mark Kelly, husband of nearly assassinated ex-Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, is going to kick ex-air force pilot Marsh, Marsh, Marsha-My-Dear-McSally’s punk-mouthed ass, don’t you:

    “They call them aviators in the Navy. They say they’re better than pilots.” -‘The Right Stuff’ 1983

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. “They call them aviators in the Navy. They say they’re better than pilots.”

    Well …
    One was the first man on the Moon.
    One became President.
    One married a gorgeous blonde whose father owned a liquor distributorship.

    nk (dbc370)

  74. @72. It was during the Tet Offensive, right? The American victory that the media reported as a defeat and were believed?

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_in_the_Vietnam_War

    ‘US troop numbers peaked in 1968 with President Johnson approving an increased maximum number of US troops in Vietnam at 549,500. The year was the most expensive in the Vietnam War with the American spending US$77.4 billion (US$ 569 billion in 2020) on the war.’

    Point was, by that time in 1968, the Pentagon brass hats, the Five O’Clock Follies, etc. kept insistently preaching ‘we’re winning’ when the scope and strength of targets attacked during Tet clearly indicated the opposite, as the PPs confirmed.

    The U.S. government was lying. Sound familiar?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. @61. ‘I guess the concept of “sacrifice for Country” is alien to you.’

    It’s no guess it was to him: his wife told him to do it. ‘Fvcking morons’ of a feather sleep together.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. if only mcsally had committed a war crime or three she might be worthy of mr president trump’s praise

    Dave (1bb933)

  77. Robby Starbuck
    @robbystarbuck
    ·
    Remember left wing media attacking
    @realDonaldTrump
    for saying that the politicians in Puerto Rico were totally mismanaging supplies & relief funds?

    Today Trump was proven right again. Carlos Acevedo was fired today after relief supplies were discovered horded in a warehouse.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  78. but it was placid as domingo

    So you mean a bunch of women were being sexually harassed?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  79. Does anyone remember any other president making a habit of highlighting his (putative) approval rate in some poll other (51% !!), and then saying “Thank you”? It’s very weird.

    Trump fans would surely say it demonstrates his gratitude. But what it really demonstrates is that he regards the presidency as a means to win applause for himself, and he thinks we the citizens show our virtue best by applauding him.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  80. 20 votes. Just 20 little votes.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Which Howard Beach, happy? It would have been quite the to do 34 years ago if you meant the one in Queens NY.

    If it’s the one in Chi, good deal…I like how Eastlake Terrace is an idle of tranquility buffered by Sheridan Rd from East Roger’s Park and the Jungle (Jonquil) Terrace.

    urbanleftbehind (fee02e)

  82. The war on education continues:

    Former Drexel professor arrested and accused of spending $185,000 in grant money on strippers, sports bars and iTunes

    I think they should cut the guy some slack. He was an engineering prof, and I’ll bet some of those lap-dancers were very well put-together.

    Academic freedom sometimes leads in unconventional directions.

    /sarc

    Dave (1bb933)

  83. You don’t know how to win anymore

    Nation building hasn’t worked out.

    We don’t win any wars anymore

    We can’t even define what winning is anymore.

    We spend $7 trillion

    Sounds about right.

    you’re a liberal hack

    A rare honest statement from a politician.

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. Former Drexel professor arrested and accused of spending $185,000 in grant money on strippers, sports bars and iTunes. The rest he spent foolishly.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. @90. Found at last: the next United States Secretary of Education.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. This is funny: Dennis Prager is defending Trump’s infamous Access Hollywood comments by claiming that what someone says privately “is not an accurate indicator of a person’s character.”

    Trumpsters also claim that what Trumps says publicly is not an indicator of his character at all — except when he says things they can actually defend with a straight face.

    And they insist that whatever Trump did before he took the presidency is also irrelevant to assessing his character.

    Of course, these rules don’t apply to just anyone. Especially not to Democrats or “NeverTrumpers.”

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  87. 85.Does anyone remember any other president making a habit of highlighting his (putative) approval rate in some poll other (51% !!), and then saying “Thank you”? It’s very weird.

    Perhaps Nixon mentioned it in his many late night one-on-ones with various presidential portraits but listening in was like watching paint dry.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. #89: Do you also agree with Trump’s assertion that the generals are all “dopes and babies”? And with Trump’s clear implication that he himself is incomparably smarter and gutsier?

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  89. Donald Trump didn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor.
    He didn’t know that India shares a border with China — but to be fair, he did know that Nipple and Button are somewhere over there.

    He found the U.S. Constitution impossible to read — “like a foreign language!” (I’m old enough to remember when Republicans mocked Obama for not knowing a foreign language.)

    That’s just a teeny but illustrative sample of Donald Trump’s ignorance.

    Yet there are people who think he was justified in calling the generals, to their faces, “dopes.”

    If Obama had done that, Republicans would be hyperventilating over his shocking arrogance.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  90. I think they should cut the guy some slack. He was an engineering prof, and I’ll bet some of those lap-dancers were very well put-together.

    I remember hearing in college that civil engineers studying the structures of bridges are often told that women’s brassieres are designed quite similarly.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  91. @97. No secret Howard Hughes used his aircraft engineers talents to eyeball the situation and do a little ‘structural analysis’ on design to improve the surface lift for one Jane Russell. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71) — 1/18/2020 @ 10:24 am

    The gist of that article is that Leftists have less understanding of the Constitution than Donald Trump.

    Kishnevi (c5227a)

  93. Open thread? Anyone still here?

    A really awesome Old Fashioned recipe, taken from a bartender at a speakeasy in Pasadena and modified (and, dare I say, perfected) by yours truly:

    One-half sugar cube (because I am trying to cut down on sugar intake; use a full cube if you wish)
    Old Woodford spicy cherry bitters
    Bourbon or rye (tonight I used Four Roses)
    Blueberries
    Raspberries
    Blackberries

    1. Place sugar cube in old fashioned glass.
    2. Add three dashes of spicy cherry bitters. Mix.
    3. Muddle 2-3 blueberries (depending upon size), one blackberry, and one raspberry with sugar and bitters.
    4. Drop ice into glass (I like to use one of those giant cubes).
    5. Pour bourbon over entire mixture. Stir vigorously.
    6. Garnish with a cocktail sword of blueberries, blackberry, and raspberry.
    7. Enjoy.

    This might be good too if fresh mint were added. I’ll have to try that at some point.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  94. I’m old enough to remember when Republicans mocked Obama for not knowing a foreign language.”

    I remember when they laughed at Obama thinking Austrians spoke Austrian, that Hawaii was in Asia and that there were 56 states.

    They didn’t laugh as much when he sold guns to drug cartels, sicc’d the IRS on citizens, spied on reporters or made overpriced healthcare even more overpriced while lying through his teeth that you could keep your doctor/plan and prices would go down.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  95. Jeffrey Epstein’s disregard for environmental protections showed his disrespect for the law, Virgin Islands says

    CNN
    __ _

    Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    He ran an underage rape cult involving some of the most powerful people in the world which caused corporate media companies to cover up for him but the son of a bi*ch didn’t recycle, and we can’t abide that.

    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  96. I’m old enough to remember when Republicans mocked Obama for not knowing a foreign language.

    I won’t speak for all Republicans, but the reason I mocked Obama for not knowing a foreign language is because it flew in the face of his fan club’s insistence that he was an über-sophisticate and a “citizen of the world” who by dint of his incredible understanding of international issues would overnight restore our standing among world capitals large and small. George W. Bush was mocked for not having a passport until his dad became President, but he at least was serviceable in Spanish and seemed to understand Mexican culture at least as much as, if not more than, Barack Obama understood Indonesian or Kenyan culture.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  97. Pelosi attacked media. Media only cares when it’s the left that’s attacked.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  98. @103. Time permits perspective. The initial assessment remains valid: a little too much Spock, not enough Kirk.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  99. @100. Actually, capped off this evening w/a genuine ‘old-fashioned’ root beer float in a classic ol’mug. Been years since whipping one up and they are a tasty treat.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. @96. No doubt there’s are threads of truth behind those Trump Tales but he’s a military school graduate, so it’s sorta hard to believe Trump didn’t know ‘what happened’ at Pearl Harbor or hasn’t been aware of the anniversary being remembered annually in the media.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. @101 – I remember those too. But the tally of Trumpian ignorance would easily dwarf any other president’s. Likewise a tally of Trumpian lies.

    I won’t speak for all Republicans, but the reason I mocked Obama for not knowing a foreign language is because it flew in the face of his fan club’s insistence that he was an über-sophisticate

    I mocked Obama then too. But Trump frequently declares himself smarter and better than everyone else in all kinds of ways — and most of the people who criticized Obama’s narcissism refuse to admit that Trump has it in a much higher measure.

    Trump frequently accuses other people of “dishonesty,” and his apologists give him a pass for his grotesque hypocrisy.
    Trump boosters told us that he was more honest than all the “politicians” because he’s “unfiltered.” Then they switched to defending his frequent lies by saying “All politicians lie!”

    For the most part, Trump boosters take the view that everything they once deplored is just fine when Trump does the same but more so.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  102. I mocked Obama then too. But Trump frequently declares himself smarter and better than everyone else in all kinds of ways — and most of the people who criticized Obama’s narcissism refuse to admit that Trump has it in a much higher measure.

    Oh, hey, agreed. And you can find lots of examples on this blog (and others) where I have expressed my view that Trump is a very limited intelligence yet massive self-praise. But our betters in academia and media absolutely swore to us that Obama was the most brilliant of all brilliant Presidents, so please forgive me if I hold him to a slightly higher standard than to which I would hold Donald Trump.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  103. But our betters in academia and media absolutely swore to us that Obama was the most brilliant of all brilliant Presidents

    This is exaggerated narrative. Obama was obviously a bright and well-educated guy. I don’t recall the media treating him as more brilliant than Bill Clinton or Al Gore.

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. Most of the commenters here are at least as smart as Obama and likely smarter. What they are not is as black as Obama. That was his primary qualification in the hearts and minds of our betters in the media and academia, and ipso facto, res ipsa loquitor, and quod erat demonstratum, any criticism of him was racist.

    Now, I will admit that he probably had the biggest hands of any President, and maybe bigger than the hands of most of us here. But he needed to. His wife had the biggest butt of any First Lady.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. Sasquatch azz sighting

    mg (8cbc69)

  106. Sad to say, we see the same thing now with Trump supporters. What is their reflexive response to any criticism of Trump? A sarcastic “Orange man bad”.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. the media drooled over the brilliance of Obama:
    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/rich-noyes/2017/01/09/farewell-decade-media-drooling-over-barack-obama

    heck, he won the Nobel Peace Prize 11 days into his first term.

    kaf (bd613c)

  108. Dave (1bb933) — 1/19/2020 @ 1:50 am

    Pot, I would like to introduce you to the kettle?

    Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/18/2020 @ 7:02 pm

    I don’t know about dopes or babies which is why I left it out of my comment. I’m able to pick and choose instead of being stuck on one channel. But they do sound a little like whining little middle schoolers.

    frosty (f27e97)

  109. nk (dbc370) — 1/19/2020 @ 4:52 am

    After a couple years of people sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and yelling “all lies, everything is lies” sarcasm is understandable.

    frosty (f27e97)

  110. David in Cal (f8ea8c) — 1/18/2020 @ 10:02 am

    Trumps criticism may have been useful for motivating the generals, for all I know. Tillerson’s problem seems to be that he dislikes Trump’s style of management and leadership.

    The problem wasn’t really with the generals – it was with the president, although the generals can be blamed for mot stepping out of their sphrere and explaining why they couldn’t win. The problem was with the State Department, and the CIA and with the presidents.

    The problem was Pakistan. It supported the Taliban., and eventually tactics used in Iraq were imported into Afghanistan.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  111. the media drooled over the brilliance of Obama:

    Nearly all the fawning comments in your link refer to his charisma and character, not his intelligence. The first one that does runs exactly counter to what JVW claimed: “one of our brightest presidents.” (emphasis added)

    heck, he won the Nobel Peace Prize 11 days into his first term.

    That was a slap in the face to Bush more than anything else. The citation does not refer to Obama’s intelligence or brilliance.

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. In Iraq, for a very long time, Secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld kept operating on the supposition that whatever resistance there was could only diminish, because it was all dead-enders; that it was like Japanese soldiers fighting on after the surrender in World War II.

    But it was other countries interfering in Iraq abd supporting al Qaeda, or an al-Qaeda Baath coalition that was causing the problem: Iran and Syria and probably also to some degree Saudi Arabia, who did not want the project of installing an Arab democracy to succeed. Who did not want the world, and their own people, to see a dictatorship replaced by something better.

    And the criticism coming from the Democrats was not on point, it was lies, it just treated as inevitable what happened in order to argue that Bush was wrong from the start and they were right (those who did) in opposing the Iraq war. They did not want to say that what was going on was something new – although today nobody is disputing that Iranian General Soleimani was responsible for a lot of it.

    Their criticism didn’t help to clarify things because it was not correct, but then they didn’t want “W” to make correct decisions. They wanted to argue they were right and had great wisdom, even though nobody had predicted what actually happened (some argued that it would be difficult to defeat Iraq, but not that, after successfully defeating Saddam Hussein’s army in short order and occupying Iraq, there would start a resistance.)

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  113. When “43” did make a better decision – the surge – (at the end of 2006) it was extensively criticized and it predicted it would not work and General David l Petraeus was called, I think, General Betray-us by Senator Hillary Clinton.

    I see – she gave herself some plausible deniability for that characterization.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/hillary-clinton-wont-repudiate-moveonorgs-betray-us-ad (Sept. 18, 2007)

    During an interview on CNN, Clinton was asked repeatedly if she wanted to criticize MoveOn.org, a liberal group that mocked Gen. David Petraeus as “General Betray Us” in a full-page ad in the New York Times last week.

    “Do you want to distance yourself from that ad?” asked anchorman John Roberts. “Was that MoveOn.org ad over the top?”

    “Well, I certainly speak for myself,” replied Clinton, the junior Democratic senator from New York. “And I am a very strong admirer of General Petraeus, his record of service for our country, the dedication he has brought to a very difficult job that many of us think does not have a military solution.”

    But during her questioning of Petraeus before a Senate panel last week, Clinton implied the general was not telling the truth. “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief,” she told him.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  114. Drudge has been really weak since the lib takeover but props for out-Posting the Post:

    NY Post: Great British Break Off

    Drudge: Formerly Known As Prince!
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  115. 102, they didnt get Capone for murder, they got him for Tax Evasion

    urbanleftbehind (7df3d1)

  116. If they chant Orange Man Bad at the Bucks Palace or what should have been the Scott Walker Coronation Room this summer, that’s the type of honesty which might get me to vote for Biden-not weirdo.

    urbanleftbehind (7df3d1)

  117. When Ms. Warren told this lie, “Let me remind you, I think, I’m the only one running for president whose actually been on the executive side,” it reminded me of what Jonah Goldberg said about her in his usual smart and funny way (and my apologies to the powers that be for the large cut-and-paste, but Jonah is behind a paywall now)…

    Elizabeth Warren is a remarkable liar. “Remarkable” is one of those funny words, like unique, that often sounds like a compliment but might not be. If asked about a dress, or a tie, or a baby with an unfortunately bright red unibrow, you might respond with, “What a unique dress” or, “That baby is remarkable!”
    In other words, Warren’s a remarkable liar, but she’s not a very good one. Much like Barack Obama’s sense of humor and Donald Trump’s eloquence, Warren’s lying gets a boost from her fans. I remember liberals doubling over with laughter at Obama’s utterly banal dad jokes and mediocre quips (in fairness, sometimes he could be funny, particularly when scripted). I remain amazed by people who can listen to Trump vomit up a barrage of sentence fragments and non-sequiturs and then gush about his brilliant communications skills. (In fairness, Trump can approach eloquence—when scripted.)
    Michael Brendan Dougherty has a fantastically frustrated I-feel-like-I’m-taking-crazy-pills rant on the latest episode of National Review’s Editors podcast in which he approaches one of John Belushi’s old Saturday Night Live “Weekend Update” tirades about Warren’s dishonesty and insincerity. “Everything about her is phony!” he rails. MBD notes how she changes her accent, her syntax, her persona based on perceived political need—I say perceived, because she often has a thumbless grasp of what the political moment requires. For instance, no one put a gun to her head and made her release a DNA study, to much fanfare, that proved her claim of being Native American was bogus. She did that all by herself.
    Michael’s hardly alone. Our own David French has been like Jack McGee from the classic Hulk TV show when it comes to Warren’s fakery (for those of you not fluent in the canon, McGee was the reporter from the National Register who was convinced the Hulk was real). David:
    My favorite Elizabeth Warren story involves a cookbook. Warren, who was at that time posing as a trailblazing Cherokee, actually contributed recipes to a recipe book with the name, I kid you not, “Pow Wow Chow.” But here’s the best part of the story. She plagiarized some of the recipes. Yes indeed, her version of “pow wow chow” came directly from a famous French chef.
    My second-favorite Warren story involves breastfeeding. She once claimed to be the first “nursing mother” to take the New Jersey bar exam, making her, I suppose, the Jackie Robinson of lactating lawyers. The problem? There’s no evidence this is true. Women have been taking the New Jersey bar since 1895, and the New Jersey Judiciary was “not aware” whether they tracked the nursing habits of test-takers.
    Warren is a bit of an academic grifter. She’s willing to fake her way to the top. When she came to Harvard Law School, she was—believe it or not—considered by some to be a “minority hire.” She listed herself as a minority on a legal directory reviewed by deans and hiring committees. The University of Pennsylvania “listed her as a minority faculty member,” and she was touted after her hire at Harvard Law School as, yes, the school’s “first woman of color.”

    If you watch her presidential announcement video (“I’m gonna get me a beer”), the fremdschamen is palpable. She’s kind of like Michael Scott from The Office: She reads the room wrong, fully commits to a bit, and then thinks there’s something wrong with the people in the room for not going along with it.
    When first we practice to deceive.
    There’s a reason I’m bringing all of this up. Actually, there are several.
    The first, is that as MBD notes, absent any other evidence, the presumption of sincerity in the whole “a woman can’t win” kerfuffle has to go to Bernie Sanders. Sanders is an Aesopian figure. Like the scorpion in the story, he is always true to his nature. If elected, he will be the Bernie he said he was going to be. Like Martin Luther, he will say, “Here I stand, I can do no other,” as he tries to seize the means of production or whatever the hell he thinks he can do as president.
    On every issue I can think of, Sanders is entirely predictable because he is genuinely who he is and consistent in his views. He’s consistently wrong about a lot of stuff, but that’s not relevant.
    Warren, on the other hand, is a very different creature. Which brings me to my second point. Warren rose through the meritocracy by reading the room and changing accordingly. And she was remarkably successful at it. She only seems like a Michael Scott character when talking to the larger public, because the larger public isn’t in on it. There’s a reason why Sanders has reliable support from blue-collar voters and young people: His authenticity is obvious (in this he’s sort of like Ron Paul, another cranky old man who was nonetheless consistent in his crankery). Meanwhile, despite having a remarkably similar program to Sanders, Warren’s support comes from the sorts of people who rose through the ranks of academia and media in much the same way she did: by reading the room. It’s no wonder the elite media and academia love her so. They look at her and see “one of us.” (The still-likely New York Times editorial endorsing her should be headlined “Gooble Gobble.”)

    I liked “thumbless grasp of what the political moment requires” and “lactating lawyers”. Just to hone in on Lizzie’s “executive experience”, she spent all of 13 months in the CFPB, which is a lot less time in executive leadership than Sanders, Buttigieg, Biden and Bloomberg. Anyways, the next time she’s cranking out a raft of bullsh*t in a speech or Q&A, we can call it “Lizzie’s pow wow chow”.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  118. JVW @100

    May I offer clinching evidence of the decline of Western Civilization?

    https://bartesian.com/

    kishnevi (496414)

  119. Buck/Scihiff/2020

    mg (6c8efb)

  120. @12. Though the TeeVee camera can add 20 lbs., it does appear you could land Marine One on the tail of former First Lady HRC, nk.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. ^@112.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. My favorite David French story is the one where he believes anyone cares about the opinions he quills in Trump’s 2020 America.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. release a DNA study, to much fanfare, that proved her claim of being Native American was bogus.

    It was accompanied by commentary that argued it proved it was not bogus.

    Unfortunately for her, too many people read beyond the first paragraph or so. She had hoped only for headlines and that the spin would be followed whole.

    My favorite Elizabeth Warren story involves a cookbook.

    That was in 1984 and sounds like her first venture into claiming that she was an American Indian (she probably had had numerous people assuming that before, from the fact that she was born in Oklahoma and maybe the way she looked)

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  124. This is exaggerated narrative. Obama was obviously a bright and well-educated guy. I don’t recall the media treating him as more brilliant than Bill Clinton or Al Gore.

    Well, Michael Beschloss certainly thought so, and Kenneth Walsh didn’t exactly write “smartest” but called Obama the “most cerebral” in comparison to Clinton, both Bushes, and Reagan, so I am pretty comfortable making the claim that I made.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  125. May I offer clinching evidence of the decline of Western Civilization?

    Yikes, it is going to be an ugly decade I suppose. Pretty soon we’ll just have robots controlled by phone apps mixing our drinks.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  126. My favorite David French story is the one where he believes anyone cares about the opinions he quills in Trump’s 2020 America.

    The paid subscribers at The Dispatch will tell you differently, and I’m one of them, and I reject “Trump’s 2020 America”, but not the “America” or the “2020” part. It’s not Trump’s America.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  127. Here’s a PR campaign going on about “new evidence” in the impeachment case.

    1. The GAO says the hold was illegal

    This is not a new issue, although it got some new attention. The whole dispute between the Pentagon and OMB centered around this. White House lawyers were working furiously to justify it.

    And while this could have been made grounds for impeachment it wasn’t, and the Impoundment Control Act foresees this possibility an contains a remedy besides impeachment or threats to impeach: The Comptroller General can go into court and demand the money be spent. (of course this might be with a non-secret hold within the fiscal year.)

    2. Donald Trump personally ordered the hold; it was not done for any of the legal reasons OMB gave at the time.

    Is this news? I mean the OMB excuses might be relatively recent news, but nobody disputes that the hold came from Trump.

    3. Giuliani wrote that everything he did was with the knowledge and support of the president.

    A ridiculous argument that Trump was behind everything he did. If so, then what was he doing, early in 2019, lobbying the president to fire the Ambassador? To convince Pompeo?

    4. Lev Parnass met with Trump, so Trump knew what he was doing: Look at all these pictures!

    Lev Parnass told the New York Times he did not discuss Ukraine with Trump. (He had to: He might have to testify and his lawyer doesn’t want to be a party to perjury.)

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  128. “My favorite David French story is the one where he believes anyone cares about the opinions he quills in Trump’s 2020 America.”

    My favorite David French story hasn’t been written yet. Its the one he’ll write justifying his vote for Joe Biden or Liz Warren while still claiming to be Conservative.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  129. I remain amazed by people who can listen to Trump vomit up a barrage of sentence fragments and non-sequiturs and then gush about his brilliant communications skills.

    I think Jonah Goldberg has said that pretty much every week for the last 4 years. Or maybe I’m mixing that up with his other anti-Trump rants. Anyway, I certainly will agree that Goldberg is “smart” but “Funny” ? doubtful.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  130. Its the one he’ll write justifying his vote for Joe Biden or Liz Warren while still claiming to be Conservative.

    Like the Democrat he voted for in 2016? Maybe DRJ does have a point.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  131. The way things are shaping up in the impeachment trial:

    1. The rules (not yet finalized by McConnell) will be put up for a vote on Tuesday. It may take several hours. McConnell is confident it will not mandate witnesses but it may mandate a vote later on whether to hear witnesses.

    2. Sessions start at 1 pm every day except Sunday.

    3. The House will have 2 12-hour sessions, Wednesday and Thursday 1 pm to 1 am, to make its case.

    4. After that the president’s lawyers will have 2 12-hour days to respond. (Friday and Saturday)

    5. Alan Dersowitz will speak on Friday as to the constitutional harm this impeachment will cause according to him. Otherwise he won’t be used very much and neither will Kenneth Starr.

    6. I think there’s at last 6 Republican Senators who may vote for witnesses and Susan Collins is a definite yes vote and Lisa Murkowski nearly so. The Democrats need four. Lindsey Graham is saying that if witnesses are called the Democrats won’t get just their witnesses (this is an obvious and basic point of due process or fairness: A defendant in any kind of trial has a right to call witnesses. Hunter Biden and Joe Biden and the whistleblower.)

    7. The room is small. They are bringing in furniture made in 1998/9 for the Clinton trial and in storage since and they may need more carpentry for live witnesses. No one but Chief Justice Roberts and the lawyers will be allowed any electronic devices. The Senators can leave them outside where they can also get recharged. Reporters won’t be allowed to have any either. The Senate may go into closed (but not secret) sessions with cameras turned off for deliberations and arguments. Senators will be ale to leave prepared statements with reporters and talk about what went on in any closed session.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  132. I’wear your disparaging remarks about being a Trump voter with pride. Never seen the building trade business so good for so many people that were crumb eaters before Trump. I’ve been in this business since the 60’s and this is better than the years of R.R. I’m sure all you know it all about everything people will try and prove someone living in the now wrong. MAGA.

    mg (6c8efb)

  133. More background:

    The Articles of Impeachment charge Trump with wanting to get an announcement of investigations.

    Giuliani already got an announcement like that (at least of Burisma) in March!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html (May 1, 2019)

    Mr. Giuliani said he got involved because he was seeking to counter the Mueller investigation with evidence that Democrats conspired with sympathetic Ukrainians to help initiate what became the special counsel’s inquiry.

    “I can assure you this all started with an allegation about possible Ukrainian involvement in the investigation of Russian meddling, and not Biden,” Mr. Giuliani said. “The Biden piece is collateral to the bigger story, but must still be investigated, but without the prejudgments that infected the collusion story.”

    The decision to reopen the investigation into Burisma was made in March by the current Ukrainian prosecutor general, who had cleared Hunter Biden’s employer more than two years ago. The announcement came in the midst of Ukraine’s contentious presidential election, and was seen in some quarters as an effort by the prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, to curry favor from the Trump administration for his boss and ally, the incumbent president, Petro O. Poroshenko.

    Mr. Poroshenko lost his re-election bid in a landslide last month. While the incoming president, Volodymyr Zelensky, has said he will replace Mr. Lutsenko as prosecutor general, Mr. Zelensky has not said whether the prosecutors he appoints will be asked to continue the investigation.

    …The Biden campaign cast the revival of the Ukrainian investigation as politically motivated and pointed to the involvement of Mr. Giuliani to question the motives behind the new scrutiny.

    Kate Bedingfield, a Biden campaign spokeswoman, said the former vice president’s push to oust the former prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, was undertaken “without any regard for how it would or would not impact any business interests of his son, a private citizen.”

    The effort, she added, was consistent with “the United States’ foreign policy to root out corruption in Ukraine” and was backed by the United States government, allies and multilateral institutions, including the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

    The younger Mr. Biden said in the statement, “At no time have I discussed with my father the company’s business, or my board service, including my initial decision to join the board.”

    Mr. Lutsenko denied any political motivation in reopening the case….

    Kate Bedingfield, a Biden campaign spokeswoman, said the former vice president’s push to oust the former prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, was undertaken “without any regard for how it would or would not impact any business interests of his son, a private citizen.”

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  134. What’s semi-interesting is that there isn’t a criticism of the content of what Goldberg-French said about Ms. Warren, it’s that Goldberg-French said it, which is the epitome of ad hominem. So in that vein, here is more French (which is in reaction to this NR piece):

    As I read Evans’s piece, I had a singular thought: He’s waving away the mountain and focusing on a pebble. He’s missing the ocean for the puddle. People do not launch machete attacks over zoning disputes. They don’t open fire in kosher supermarkets because their new neighbors don’t make good salaries. There might be “simmering local conflicts” over zoning (welcome to America; there are always “simmering local conflicts” over zoning), but none of that is truly relevant to deadly violence.
    No, the unpleasant truth is that when populations of new and different people (especially religious or racial minorities) move to new and different towns, they all too often encounter vicious bigots. They don’t create vicious bigots. We understand this clearly in the race context. Spend five seconds searching on the web, and you can see truly shocking video from the 1970s of racist white crowds chanting vile insults in residential neighborhoods in New York. When their new neighborhoods integrated, they encountered vicious racists. They didn’t create vicious racists.
    My own family had a terrible encounter with racism during the political rise of Donald Trump. As I wrote more critically of Trump and eventually declared that I would never vote for him, my youngest daughter was subject to a torrent of horrific, racist abuse.
    Naomi is African-American, adopted from Ethiopia, and as many readers know, alt-right bigots sent us pictures of her then 7-year-old face photoshopped in gas chambers, with a smiling photoshopped Donald Trump poised to push the button to kill her. Bigots filled the comments section of my wife’s blog with horrific pictures and videos of dead and dying African-Americans. Threats spilled into the “real world.” Even now, my family feels periodically under siege, with threats to our house and home.
    Now, why did that happen? Why was that race-hatred unleashed on my daughter? Was it because we opposed Donald Trump? At best that was mere pretext. Our opposition to the GOP nominee didn’t make anyone racist. Instead, our opposition to Trump was merely the immediate rationalization and justification of a much deeper and darker hatred. The pretext is so thin that it reveals the pure evil beneath.
    But there was something else about Evans’s piece that struck me—it hit me right between the eyes. I’m not sure if this was his intent, but when he described the way that ultra-Orthodox build their houses close together, how they vote together to protect their interests, and how they devote their time to religious studies, one word came to my mind—home. That’s the story of a people building a home.
    Indeed, it’s not only the most American of stories—of people welcome nowhere else coming to a land that promised them liberty, it’s a story of unique resonance to American Jews dating back to our nation’s founding. As New York Times editor and writer Bari Weiss relates in her outstanding and moving book, How To Fight Anti-Semitism, George Washington wrote to a Rhode Island Hebrew congregation all the way back in 1790 that American Jews “possess alike liberties of conscience and immunities of censorship.”
    America is Israel’s closest ally. America is the home of the second-largest population of Jewish people in the world, behind only Israel. And now, in communities where Jews have lived and thrived for generations, they don’t know if they’re safe. They don’t know if they’ll be victimized by random, vicious attacks. Even worse, those attacks aren’t coming from a single movement that can be identified, isolated, and defeated. They come from radical left and radical right. They come from Americans black and white. The ancient hatreds have re-emerged to such an extent that I’ve heard more than one friend question whether this land can truly remain their home.
    In fact, one of the central political, cultural, and spiritual challenges of our time is reassuring Americans increasingly divided by religion and still divided by race that this nation is, indeed, home.

    Paul Montagu (e1b5a7)

  135. If something starts heating up suddenly, it’s got a single source.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  136. @134. Except it is: he won.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. kick ex-air force pilot Marsh, Marsh, Marsha-My-Dear-McSally’s punk-mouthed ass, don’t you:

    McSally was the first female combat pilot, you armchair weenie. Kelly was something like the 123rd male astronaut whose claim to fame was being in space past his sell-by date.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  138. But heck, he might be able to rally the anti-gun vote in AZ.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  139. 20 votes. Just 20 little votes.

    maybe 15 more than they have.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  140. Lev Parnass met with Trump, so Trump knew what he was doing: Look at all these pictures!

    Confucius say mouse with tail caught in trap- and one way plane ticket to Ukraine in pocket- squeals.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. Adam Schiff said on ABC that you never heard of trial where a prosecutor was limited to jst grand jury transcripts.

    You know why trials have witnesses?

    To protect the rights of the accused not the prosecutors. It’s in order so that witnesses can be cross examined (and also that testimony is not reported second hand, not an issue here because 12 of them appeared on TV and we can pretty much trust all 17 transcripts.)

    If the defendant agrees, various witnesess can be dispenssed with. It’s called a stipulation.

    Sometimes a stipulation can be false. O.J. Simpson’s lawyers tried to get Marcia Clark to stipulate that something happened at 10:30 not 10 pm but she didn’t fall into that trap.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  142. Most of the commenters here are at least as smart as Obama and likely smarter.

    Most of their keyboards are smarter than Trump.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  143. 149. See what was what really going on is that Lev Parnas (and Igor Fruman) were contributing to all kinds of nationally important Republican events and that’s how they got close to Giuliani. Whom they hired for some private legal work, to get closer still.

    They got indicted on the grounds the money they gave was not really theirs but came from an Ukrainian “oligarch,” (which might mean, ultimately, the Russian government.)

    Lev Parnas’s documents were subpoenaed by prosecutors. He sued to let him turn them over also to the House Intelligence Committee and won and they just were.

    Giuliani, by the way, no longer trusts Parnas.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  144. @146. Weenie? Hold the mustard, bub:

    ‘Mark Kelly is an American politician, former astronaut, engineer, and U.S. Navy captain. He also is an author, political activist, as well as aerospace executive and consultant. Kelly is the husband of former U.S. Representative Gabby Giffords.

    A naval aviator, he flew combat missions during the Gulf War. He was selected to become a NASA Space Shuttle pilot in 1996 and flew his first mission in 2001 as pilot of STS-108. He piloted STS-121 in 2006 and commanded STS-124 in 2008 and STS-134 in 2011. STS-134 was his final mission and the final mission of Space Shuttle Endeavour. [Kelly has logged in excess of 20 million miles of spaceflight.]

    In December 1987, Kelly became a naval aviator and received initial training on the A-6E Intruder attack aircraft. He was then assigned to Attack Squadron 115 (VA-115) in Atsugi, Japan, and made two deployments to the Persian Gulf on the aircraft carrier USS Midway, flying 39 combat missions in Operation Desert Storm. After receiving his master’s degree, he attended the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School from June 1993 to June 1994. He has logged more than 5,000 hours in more than 50 different aircraft and has over 375 carrier landings.

    He is the recipient of these awards: two Defense Superior Service Medals; one Legion of Merit; two Distinguished Flying Crosses; four Air Medals (two individual/two strike flight) with Combat “V”; two Navy Commendation Medals, (one with combat “V”); one Navy Achievement Medal; two Southwest Asia Service Medals; one Navy Expeditionary Medal; two Sea Service Deployment Ribbons; a NASA Distinguished Service Medal; and an Overseas Service Ribbon.’ -source, wikiclassyguybio

    Martha, Martha, Marha-my-dear-McSally is a mere ex-air force pilot with lady parts who clearly couldn’t cut it as a naval aviator but likes to talk like a sailor. But she can shine Kelly’s shoes.

    Stop embarrassing yourself, Kevin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. FYI Kevin:

    Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, an F-15 Strike Eagle pilot with more than 3,000 flight hours, became the first female combat pilot in 1993. Not punk-azzed-mouth McSally.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  146. I dunno, DC…McSally v. Sinema back in ’18 had WWE Diva potential, Martha cleans up good when she is forced to (Laura Ing, watch your back). The concession tweet with the big red dog weirded me out though.

    urbanleftbehind (eff824)

  147. Congrats to the boys and girls at SpaceX on the success of today’s in-flight abort test the Cape.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYQSNkfDRv8

    Outstanding job, kids.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. @155. Appointed. And toast.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. Mark Kelly is going to have to answer some key questions to test what kind of Democrat he is:
    – Does he favor open borders like we are hearing from the main Democrat candidates during the debates?
    – Does he favor Medicaid for All, and if so, should it apply to people here illegally?
    – Does he believe in an unfettered right to abortion at any stage of the pregnancy?
    – Does he believe taxes should be raised back to Obama levels?
    – Does he believe that capital gains should be indexed to income?
    – Does he support limits on energy usage in a state where people need to run air conditioners all summer?

    Hillary Clinton thought she could put Arizona into play for Democrats. If the Dems think they have a chance at the Grand Canyon State’s electoral votes next year then they last thing they need is for their Senate candidate to be distancing himself from their Presidential candidate’s agenda. But then they run the risk that they force Kelly too far to the left to win in what is, at best, a purple state. It will be interesting to watch.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  150. @158. He likely will– after he’s elected w/great fanfare. 😉

    He’s what you could likely peg a ‘conservative’ Democrat, particularly give his up-close-and-personal experience and position on guns. But it’s his vote that’s needed– and has Mitch’s knickers in a twist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. The drought is over:

    KC are the Sunshine Boys today! Congrats to the Chiefs and to Super Bowl 54!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  152. ^on to Super Bowl 54.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  153. M. Kelly’s been saying the right things so far. He’s been Straight Male Sinemax for the most part. Warren would be the worst headliner for him, due to her likely unwitting late campaign panders (and Julian Castro as VP or high surrogate). on the big I. The others wish it would just go away and they’ll act like it. Bernie will be Stabenow/Manchin like.

    urbanleftbehind (eff824)

  154. @162. Arizona can be cactus prickly w/an often ‘independent,’ “mavericky” electorate. They like their heroes. McCain fit their pistols; Kelly will, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    Well we know who Elizabeth Warren is rooting for in the Super Bowl.

    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  156. Giuliani, by the way, no longer trusts Parnas.

    Yeah, Rudy is REAL genius.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  157. @158 Most of it could go either way, but nobody actually believes in open borders and nobody in the debates said they did. I like to get the positions correct:

    The Dems as a whole don’t want the wall and do want DACA, nobody believes in open borders, and everything in between is open field, depending on candidate.

    McSally couldn’t win before, I doubt she can win now.

    (and before the commentary section has a collective heart attack, I personally want legalized DACA with a path to citizenship for those who qualify but I think we should send anyone who crossed illegally as an adult packing. However, I do think we need to examine our legal immigration process because the bureaucracy level is ridiculous. Also, I think we need to hold employers responsible as well because if people can’t get hired without the right paperwork, fewer people will come and, if you are enabling people to get hired or hiring people without the right paperwork, you should also be held responsible for people immigrating illegally.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  158. At first I was puzzled at all this DC love for the Ukraine but now I understand. We give them lots of $$ in foreign military aid and “Guaranteed” loans, and a lot of that ends up in the pockets of corrupt Ukrainians who THEN give $$$ to USA Politicians campaigns or Foundations (legally and illegally) PLUS they give the USA pols family members and friends cushy do-no-work consulting jobs.

    No wonder Congress becomes hysterical over our withholding aid to the Ukraine! No wonder they don’t want to talk to Hunter Biden. They need to keep the $$ flowing so the Senators and Congressmen can get their kickbacks.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  159. @158 Kelly will vote the way Chuck Schumer tells them to vote. Like ALL the Senate Democrats do. Even that fraud from WV wouldn’t vote for Kavanaugh until it was already a done deal. Why do people keep buying this Myth that Red State D’s will go to Congress and be moderate? They’re NEVER moderate when it counts.

    How many “Moderate” House Democrats voted to impeach? How Many “Moderate” D’s voted for Obamacare? How many are going to vote to impeach Trump?

    There’s only Moderate on the Campaign trail.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  160. Lisa Desjardins
    @LisaDNews
    Historical unchartedness continues.

    *John Dean*, announced as “John Dean, CNN”, just asked a qstn on a background call with Dem officials working on impeachment.

    (He asked/suggested, why not write a letter to the presiding officer complaining about/objecting to the format?)
    _

    Everyone pitching in.

    lolololololololol
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  161. People need to look at a Politicians ACTIONS and what they say when they are NOT running for office. John McCain would say “Just build the dang fence” every time he ran for office, and then go to the Senate and get together with his “good friend” Ted Kennedy and try to pass Amnesty.

    Mitt Romney was for Amnesty, then in 2008 said he wasn’t. Then went back to supporting it. Then in 2012 said he wasn’t. Then went back to supporting it. And he still supports it. I wasn’t in Utah, but if lied in 2018 during the R primary I wouldn’t be surprised.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  162. The D’s are NOT like the R’s. They don’t like Mavericks. And they don’t nominate Mavericks for the Senate. The nominate Candidates who will say anything they have to in order to win, and then toe the party line when they get to DC.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  163. Saying that “No one is favor of open borders” is wrong. Every D Presidential candidate is in favor of changing illegal entry to the USA from a felony to a misdemeanor. This means you would still have a border, but anyone crossing illegally wouldn’t NOT get jailed or deported but merely given a ticket. As if for Jaywalking.

    That is defacto Open borders. The law is there, but there is no real penalty for breaking the law.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  164. All the D Presidental Candidates are also in favor of getting rid of the limits on legal immigration. They are in favor of amnesty, chain migration, anchor babies and sanctuary cities. Most of them say nothing about illegals killing Americans or committing crimes. Hey, that’s just collateral damage.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  165. #96

    Is there any specific proof of these specific claims beyond what the author of the book says?
    I can’t find any instance of someone in the press asking Modi about the claim.
    Granted PM Modi isn’t going to say much and if he does say that this never happened some people will just say he is covering for Trumps stupidity in the interest of the relationship.

    Trump has been to India on business and first met Modi in Mumbai in 2014 about the Trump organizations interest in building a hotel there in Mumbai. Trump also has interests in a “Trump Tower” in the New Dehli area which is about 200 miles from Chinese claimed territory. None of that proves anything and Trump sometimes does strike me as a guy who only focuses on what he wants and what others are going to ask $$$, regulations wise for those things. Geography probably only plays a peripheral interest in that outside of the risk profile that his team has developed. But he’s not a complete nitwit about India. He’s been there before, he’s met Modi before, and does know how to make money there.

    Some people are predisposed to believe ridiculous claims about Trump beyond the book “Stable Genius”
    Coincidently a journalist thought Frank Luntz’ standard cocktail party joke about Trump telling Luntz he’d always thought Genius was spelled with a “J” was a true story. The journalist ran with it and his excuse was that this was so believable, so consistent with what everyone knew about Trump (even though in Trumps tweets about his “stable genius” he spelled it right. Must be a ghost tweeter..)

    Long story short there are a lot of claims about Trumps being stupid that some people just accept as gospel, never questioning.

    steveg (354706)

  166. 172. rcocean (1a839e) — 1/19/2020 @ 4:12 pm

    Saying that “No one is favor of open borders” is wrong. Every D Presidential candidate is in favor of changing illegal entry to the USA from a felony to a misdemeanor. This means you would still have a border, but anyone crossing illegally wouldn’t NOT get jailed or deported but merely given a ticket. As if for Jaywalking.

    But that’s not open borders.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  167. Saying that “No one is favor of open borders” is wrong. Every D Presidential candidate is in favor of changing illegal entry to the USA from a felony to a misdemeanor. This means you would still have a border, but anyone crossing illegally wouldn’t NOT get jailed or deported but merely given a ticket. As if for Jaywalking.

    This is absolutely correct. And it’s silly to say “no one is in favor of open borders” when the co-chair of the DNC wears a shirt saying “I don’t believe in borders.” It reminds me of ten years ago when gay rights advocates would say “No one is demanding the right of gays to marry.”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  168. rcocean (1a839e) — 1/19/2020 @ 4:14 pm

    Most of them say nothing about illegals killing Americans or committing crimes. Hey, that’s just collateral damage.

    Because that follows the exact formula of a hate group, only it’s about blacks, Hispanics. Jews or Irishmen or whatever. If you want to hate someone, illegal immigrants is the wrong group to hate. And does anyone talk about illegal immigrants murdered by American citizens?

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  169. But that’s not open borders.

    A rose by any other name smells just as sweet, Sammy.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  170. 173. rcocean (1a839e) — 1/19/2020 @ 4:14 pm

    All the D Presidental Candidates are also in favor of getting rid of the limits on legal immigration.

    They’re actually not. They tend to be in favor of tolerating illegal immigration, but not so much in favor of abolishing quotas.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  171. Open borders means no legal obstacles to immigration.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  172. @173 Most of that isn’t true either. For so many of your posts I wish you’d delve a little to find out what the facts are, rather than jump to conclusions based on your instincts of what you wish was true.

    Nic (896fdf)

  173. @176 He hasn’t been at the national level for more than a year and was only there for a limited amount of time. I don’t judge the Rs on one random asshat either.

    Nic (896fdf)

  174. “ Because that follows the exact formula of a hate group”

    Pointing out that if a murderer had been prevented from sneaking into the country that the victim would still be alive is a hate group formula?

    harkin (d6cfee)

  175. 167. rcocean (1a839e) — 1/19/2020 @ 3:57 pm

    We give them lots of $$ in foreign military aid and “Guaranteed” loans, and a lot of that ends up in the pockets of corrupt Ukrainians who THEN give $$$ to USA Politicians campaigns or Foundations (legally and illegally) PLUS they give the USA pols family members and friends cushy do-no-work consulting jobs.

    Politicians have plenty of sources of money besides corrupt Ukrainians and corrupt Ukrainians made their money from things that happened in Ukraine, not from siphoning off limited U.S. Dollars.

    They would be more interested in law enforcement. Hunter Biden probably got hired, at least in part, to create the appearance in Ukraine, of corrupt backing of Burisma by the United States government. So people who did not, and would not, in the nature of things, know what secret deals were or were not in place, would think, or could be convinced, that Burisma had protection from the highest levels of the U.S. government, no less. And if anything happened that made it look like they had not bought off the U.S. government, Burisma could hire a couple of American lawyers to reassure people in Ukraine that everything was still the same.

    No Biden had to do anything. It still was worth money. High quality top grade “Honest” graft. Ukraine was corrupt enough for this to make sense.

    And Joe Biden may have been too naive to understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  176. harkin (d6cfee) — 1/19/2020 @ 4:52 pm

    Pointing out that if a murderer had been prevented from sneaking into the country that the victim would still be alive is a hate group formula?

    Pointing out if we discriminated more against X group, crimes Y and Z would not have happened is what a hate group does to argue that ALL members of X group should not be allowed to do things is what a hate group does.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  177. And in most cases the murderer did not sneak into the country but was brought in while a minor.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  178. The other day someone at Homeland Security used the argument that if someone’s father had not been given amnesty (and his son did not have birthright citixenship) and he wasn’t in this country, then he wouldn’t have attacked those Jews at a Chanukah party.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  179. @176 He hasn’t been at the national level for more than a year and was only there for a limited amount of time. I don’t judge the Rs on one random asshat either.

    In other words, “no one” doesn’t literally mean “no one”? Do you seriously think that Ilhan Omar or AOC or Rashida Tlaib believes in border controls? I guess we’re bound to find out, the way things are going.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  180. And let me add this, since my previous comment wasn’t precise: “open borders” doesn’t necessarily mean that there are no border guards or that you don’t have to be processed to come into this country. It pretty much means that anyone who wants to come here shall be allowed to immigrate here, irrespective of whether they bring in any skill that is in need here or whether they a leaving a stable country where they aren’t under any particular threat. Keith Ellison is merely honest enough to acknowledge what the real effect of that sort of policy would be.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  181. “Pointing out if we discriminated more against X group, crimes Y and Z would not have happened is what a hate group does to argue that ALL members of X group should not be allowed to do things is what a hate group does.”

    Pointing out that borders should be secure and we should be able to decide who comes in (by following the law) and who doesn’t sounds better.

    There are lots of women and girls in the UK and Sweden who are rape victims because police believe the same as you.

    harkin (d6cfee)

  182. @188 “Such a small number as to be approaching zero” takes a much longer time to type and also references a math concept that most people never have to learn. 😛

    Omar doesn’t seem to be and the other two don’t say much about immigration other than the usual virtue signalling. Since none of them are in a border state or a state with a particularly high Latino population, my guess is that they aren’t particularly concerned one way or the other, again other than virtue signalling.

    @189 I don’t think that’s the case either, but I do think we really need to look at where our values lie in regards to who we want in the country, especially in regard to agriculture. If ag workers are making minimum wage or less than minimum wage working in up to 100 degree temps at up to 95% humidity and non-ag workers can make the same money standing behind in an air-conditioned store behind a counter selling sandwiches, which would you rather do? If we really don’t want illegal immigrants, we will have to pay more for fruits and veg, meat, houses, lawn service, domestic service, etc where currently people are being paid below minimum wage in cash under the table.

    Nic (896fdf)

  183. @190 We could just let the women in.

    Nic (896fdf)

  184. Somebody decided that it wasn’t enough to say that Bernie sanders said something he didn’t say about lzabeth Sanders – a reporter had him say something about Pete Buttigieg that he didn’t say.

    Or perhaps she meant it as her own comment and it slipped into her transcript.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bloomberg-journo-fabricates-bernie-sanders-quote-about-buttigieg-having-gay-problem

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  185. DCSCA,

    McSally served in the USAF from 1988 to 2010 and rose to the rank of colonel before retiring. One of the highest-ranking female pilots in the history of the Air Force, McSally was the first American woman to fly in combat following the 1991 lifting of the prohibition on female combat pilots. She was also the first female commander of a USAF fighter squadron (the 354th Fighter Squadron (354 FS), based at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base).

    Just flying a plane around where nobody is shooting doesn’t count.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_McSally

    Kevin M (19357e)

  186. Bernie never says “gay”? What does he say? “Fegeleh?”

    nk (dbc370)

  187. Jeannie Leavitt was the first female FIGHTER pilot (apparently an A-10 isn’t a fighter), and she did fly in combat, but after McSally did.

    Stop embarrassing yourself with half-truths.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  188. I will enjoy watching Kelly trying to push gun control in Arizona. It’s not an issue he can dodge.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  189. * Somebody decided that it wasn’t enough to say that Bernie Sanders said something he didn’t say about Elizabeth Warren…

    https://twitter.com/misyrlena/status/1218971276825546753

    One of the comments:

    Cam Wester
    @camwester
    ·
    46m
    Replying to
    @misyrlena

    I wouldn’t call the shorter transcript a “paraphrase” — a phrase Bernie used in one answer was inserted into a different answer. That’s just rewriting what he actually said.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  190. McSally couldn’t win before, I doubt she can win now.

    McSally was handicapped by being a Congresswoman from a 50-50 district, in that the Trump voters didn’t understand why she wasn’t a fire-breather, and was pissed off that she beat their precious Sheriff Joe. Since being appointed to the Senate she’s moved steadily rightward, supporting Trump’s legislation (if keeping a bit of distance from the man) while supporting her state’s interests. She has the solid backing of the state GOP and her opponent cannot get past his hard-core anti-gun stance in a 2A state.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  191. Mitt Romney was for Amnesty, then in 2008 said he wasn’t. Then went back to supporting it. Then in 2012 said he wasn’t. Then went back to supporting it. And he still supports it. I wasn’t in Utah, but if lied in 2018 during the R primary I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Well, if you call anything short of deporting all the illegals “amnesty”, then about 90% of Congress has favored one plan or the other. It’s a lot easy to keep score, and there’s a lot less “flip-flopping” if you don’t conflate apples with oranges.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  192. It reminds me of ten years ago when gay rights advocates would say “No one is demanding the right of gays to marry.”

    Or “no one wants to take away your” privacyinsurancedoctor … guns …

    Kevin M (19357e)

  193. I think the first female fighter pilot was some Rosie the Riveter in WWII who was delivering Mustangs and Lightnings from the factories to their embarkation ports for shipping to the front.

    nk (dbc370)

  194. McSally was handicapped by being a Congresswoman from a 50-50 district, in that the Trump voters didn’t understand why she wasn’t a fire-breather, and was pissed off that she beat their precious Sheriff Joe. Since being appointed to the Senate she’s moved steadily rightward, supporting Trump’s legislation

    So to sum up: she’ll say and do whatever it takes to stay in office.

    (if keeping a bit of distance from the man)

    Can you point to any instance when she has criticized Trump’s self-dealing, corruption or incompetence since she took office?

    Dave (1bb933)

  195. I think the first female fighter pilot was some Rosie the Riveter in WWII who was delivering Mustangs and Lightnings from the factories to their embarkation ports for shipping to the front.

    During WW2, the Russians had a front-line fighter squadron whose pilots were women. It was one of three all-woman combat squadrons in the Red Air Force (the other two squadrons were bombers).

    (More proof that the whole “women’s lib” thing is a commie plot, right nk?)

    Dave (1bb933)

  196. (More proof that the whole “women’s lib” thing is a commie plot, right nk?)

    Proof that in extreme exigency, the Matriarchy comes out of the shadows and fights its battles personally instead of sending young men to do it, I’d say. Soviet women machine-gunners down to the squad level were also common, and there was at least one (famous) Soviet woman sniper at the siege of Stalingrad.

    nk (dbc370)

  197. JVW (54fd0b) — 1/19/2020 @ 5:11 pm
    IOW, “open borders” is a phrase used to mischaracterize the only realistic and moral immigration, just like “amnesty” was used.
    Until the GOP understands that
    1) the only way to decrease illegal immigration and get secure borders is to increase the opportunities for legal immigration
    2) that complaining that immigration means more Democratic voters is a racist argument
    And
    3) the idea we are required to protect employment among our fellow citizens is a Big Government idea in thought and deed

    It is going to lose on immigration, and deserve to lose.

    Kishnevi you knew I was a libertarian (0cb353)

  198. If we really don’t want illegal immigrants, we will have to pay more for fruits and veg, meat, houses, lawn service, domestic service, etc where currently people are being paid below minimum wage in cash under the table.

    That was the argument in 1619, too, I think.

    Also, take a look at the WaPo quiz JVW posted a couple of days ago. Not one of the Democratic candidates wants to deport illegal aliens just for being in the country. And if you’re ever in New York City, don’t say “illegal” or “illegal alien”.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. @194. Just flying a plane around where nobody is shooting doesn’t count.

    Bull, Kevin. By your idiotic, ‘nobody is shooting doesn’t count’ logic, Ike should never have been Supreme Allied Commander having never had any combat experience. ‘In World War II, rivals who had combat service in the first great war (led by Gen. Bernard Montgomery) sought to denigrate Eisenhower for his previous lack of combat duty, despite his stateside experience establishing a camp, completely equipped, for thousands of troops, and developing a full combat training schedule.’- Source, wikiIke

    So Ike doesn’t count, eh.You’ve been tagged and bagged, “Monty.”

    Stop embarrassing yourself, Kevin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  200. So to sum up: she’ll say and do whatever it takes to stay in office.

    Alternatively, she’ll serve her constituents as they want to be served. Believe it or not a “representative” is supposed to represent, not be some loudmouth on a soapbox. Although you’d never know it from today’s Congress.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  201. Has anyone here ever heard a Nepalese say nehp-al?

    steveg (354706)

  202. DCSCA: I said that “McSally was the first female combat pilot” and you INCORRECTLY said that Jeannie Leavitt was. In fact, McSally was flying in combat while that other lady was still in flight training. Leavitt was the first woman to fly a strike fighter, however, but that’s not the same as “first female combat pilot.”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  203. 202: Yes, but my claim was about combat pilots and the many many women who flew planes for delivery were not (at least intentionally) combat pilots.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  204. I know, Kevin M. I remember the debates about “women in combat” as opposed to just being in the service very well.

    nk (dbc370)

  205. DCSCA

    One of these days your habit of cutting out a phrase from a longer thought, then pretending none of those other parts exist as you make some troll-crack about it will get someone really pissed at you.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  206. @196. Per your own post in #146, Kevin: “McSally was the first female combat pilot…”

    That is inaccurate: or in your parlance, a no-truth; wrong. Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, an F-15 Strike Eagle pilot with more than 3,000 flight hours, became the first female combat pilot in 1993. Not punk-azzed-mouth McSally.

    Are you aware punk-azzed-mouth McSally calls herself a “fighter pilot,” Mister Mustard? Guess not as she did just the other day on camera to CNN. But if you wanna call her a ‘combat pilot,’ fine: But again: Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, an F-15 Strike Eagle pilot with more than 3,000 flight hours, became the first female combat pilot in 1993.

    Not punk-azzed-mouth McSally.

    Stop embarrassing yourself, Kevin. Period.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  207. Can you point to any instance when she has criticized Trump’s self-dealing, corruption or incompetence since she took office?

    From the double-secret “Wikipedia” page:

    McSally distanced herself from then-candidate Donald Trump during her 2016 congressional campaign, but aligned herself with him in her 2018 campaign for the Republican nomination in the U.S. Senate election in Arizona. McSally did not endorse Trump in the 2016 presidential election and did not take a position on whether she recommended voters in her district to vote for him. She called Trump’s comments in the Access Hollywood tape “disgusting” and “unacceptable.”

    In February 2017 McSally voted with her party against a resolution that would have directed the House to request 10 years of Trump’s tax returns, which would then have been reviewed by the House Ways and Means Committee in a closed session.

    In December 2019, amid the impeachment inquiry into President Trump over his alleged attempts to get the President of Ukraine to announce an investigation into Joe Biden and his son, McSally said she had not been convinced that Trump should be impeached.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_McSally#Donald_Trump

    Kevin M (19357e)

  208. @211. YOU are the incorrect party, fella. Don’t bother to apologize. It’s more fun just tagging and bagging you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  209. Personally, I think military pilots, A-10 or F-15 (or space shuttle), men or woman, are pretty awesome. I also do think this experience is helpful when making decisions about the military.

    But I don’t think it’s so much of a measuring contest. You might learn more writing SLANT reports in the back of a Humvee about logistics and forward lines and morale in miserable conditions than you would learn in a school about Bernoulli’s principle and your clunky A-10’s wings when damaged.

    The real point to me is that some people have the character to get their hands dirty and the experience of putting themselves or others in harm’s way for some greater purpose. And that’s something to consider when I vote.

    But you do have to consider the John Kerry factor. Some people get their mileage out of very short, somewhat self-serving ‘service’. And some are like John Mccain and had their arms and legs broken while they were tortured psychologically and refused to give up. Both extremes don’t really override the real issue of a government that is thoughtful and accountable.

    So I’m not sure we should be this fixed on the relative merits of these service histories so much as we are talking about what these politicians have to say about policies and principles.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  210. Kevin
    DCSCA shares at least one thing with his hero Trump. He can’t bear admitting he’s wrong.

    And don’t try to deny he is your hero, DCSCA. That’s why you always end up defending him.

    Kishnevi (0cb353)

  211. And the Honolulu Honey may have drawn combat pay as a bed-pan procurement officer in a military hospital in Iraq, but she was not in combat, either. You do know that we, that’s Illinois, have already sent a woman pilot, who was in combat, to the Senate, right? We know what a “combat pilot” is.

    nk (dbc370)

  212. That is inaccurate: or in your parlance, a no-truth; wrong. Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, an F-15 Strike Eagle pilot with more than 3,000 flight hours, became the first female combat pilot in 1993. Not punk-azzed-mouth McSally.

    No. She. Did. Not.

    SHe became the first strike fighter pilot, but did not see combat until after McSally.

    From Leavitt’s Wikipedia page:

    She became the United States Air Force’s first female fighter pilot in 1993

    Note that it does NOT say “combat”

    She was being trained as a T-38 instructor pilot at Randolph Air Force Base in San Antonio when restrictions on women flying combat missions were dropped in April 1993. Thereafter she began formal combat training in the McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, becoming the service’s first female fighter pilot

    And again, she did not start TRAINING until 1993, although you could say that once she stepped into an F-15 she was a fighter pilot. McSally was in combat while Leavitt was still training. Purists do not consider an A-10 to be a fighter plane, so in that sense LEavitt’s claimt to “first figher pilot” is true. But even she does not claim to be the first COMBAT pilot.

    I know this is all to complicated for you, but you are wrong and I await your apology.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  213. McCain had more happen to him than just the Hanoi Hilton.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

    Kevin M (19357e)

  214. @194. ‘Just flying a plane around where nobody is shooting doesn’t count.’

    Stepaway from the bong, Kevin:

    ‘Leavitt’s F-15 flight hours [3,000] have included 300 combat hours, mostly over Afghanistan and Iraq. On one mission, during Operation Southern Watch in 1996, she supported a Royal Air Force Tornado GR1 under threat from an Iraqi Roland surface-to-air missile.’ -source, wikineedforspeed

    Do stop embarrassing yourself, Kevin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  215. @221. You’ve been tagged, bagged and repeatedly pork chopped by your own posts, Kevin.

    Hit the showers, fella.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  216. Dustin,

    This started with me claiming that McSally deserved some respect for being the first female combat pilot, and then DCSCA called her a “punk-mouthed ass.” (Irony alert) LATER, he starting bringing in other people’s qualifications to hide his boorishness. All I have tried to do was defend my original point, but I seem to have again fed the troll.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  217. DCSCA

    Repeating your debunked points, and your ironic insults to a war hero, does not win you the argument. You hope that if you toss in enough kitchen sinks that all anyone will read is the last line where you claim victory.

    What a punk-mouthed ass you are.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  218. @219. No, Kevin sure can’t.

    Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  219. @226. ‘What a punk-mouthed ass you are.’

    Translation: your apology is accepted.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  220. What bernie sanders actually said about Pete Buttigieg *and the handicaps of other candidates)

    https://twitter.com/misyrlena/status/1218971276825546753/photo/1

    What the reporter had him say:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/young%20and%20gay%20%282%29.jpg?itok=-C8sVZJB

    What Pete Buttigieg said about Bernie Sanders in the year 2000:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/education/profile-in-courage-essay-contest/past-winning-essays/2000-winning-essay-by-peter-buttigieg

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  221. @225. This started with me claiming that McSally deserved some respect for being the first female combat pilot, and then DCSCA called her a “punk-mouthed ass.”

    1. She is a punk-mouthed-ass, which should win her a few rounds at the OC but few votes; she was a loser who was appointed. Next to Kelly, McSally is a mere ex-air force pilot with lady parts who clearly couldn’t cut it as a naval aviator but likes to talk like a sailor.

    2. It ‘started’ when ‘you’ began hot dogging it.

    3. But this Kevin M logic was the gem: ‘nobody is shooting doesn’t count.’ By that logic, Ike should never have been Supreme Allied Commander having never had any combat experience. ‘In World War II, rivals who had combat service in the first great war (led by Gen. Bernard Montgomery) sought to denigrate Eisenhower for his previous lack of combat duty, despite his stateside experience establishing a camp, completely equipped, for thousands of troops, and developing a full combat training schedule.’ -source, wikiIke. The M in Kevin M must stand for ‘Monty.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  222. DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/19/2020 @ 8:01 pm

    If you can’t admit you’re wrong, can you at least shut your mouth?

    Kishnevi (0cb353)

  223. @231. Lead by example.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  224. I’m not wrong, so there’s no need to shut my mouth.

    Kishnevi (0cb353)

  225. @233.Yes. You are:

    “Brig. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt, an F-15 Strike Eagle pilot with more than 3,000 flight hours, became the first female combat pilot in 1993.” -source, airforcetimes your-air-force/2016/07/14

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  226. Until people overcome or ignore the argument against amnesty, not just for those who have already come illegally, but those who are yet to come, nothing will happen.

    And it really does shut people up. They scare people with the unknown consequences of open borders if they are predictable, periodic amnesties, and if they are not..

    ..Then they have to argue that this will be the last amnesty.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  227. But the “last amnesty” they argue, was in 1986.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)


  228. New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion
    ·
    The Times’s editorial board has endorsed presidential candidates for decades. But never before like this. Join us for a special episode of @TheWeekly on @FXNetworks at 10 p.m. ET to watch the most transparent endorsement process to date. #TheWeeklyNYT
    __ _

    Kathleen Kingsbury
    @katiekings
    ·
    The @nytimes editorial board tonight announced we are endorsing Senators Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren for the Democratic nomination for president. We hope you’ll read our full endorsement. Here’s more on why we chose these two candidates. https://nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/19/opinion/amy-klobuchar-elizabeth-warren-nytimes-endorsement

    __ _

    Bernie Sander’s 4th House
    @PotionKnights
    ·
    Absolutely stunning you can both make a decision everyone saw coming AND make it even worse than anyone imagined possible simultaneously. We are surpassing peak NYT editorial levels.
    __ _

    Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    Gonna be hilarious when Warren leaks to CNN tomorrow that Amy Klobuchar told her a woman couldn’t beat Trump.
    __ _

    Bernie Sanders
    @BernieSanders
    This is a crisis. We need national rent control.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  229. @219. And don’t try to deny he [Trump] is your hero, DCSCA. That’s why you always end up defending him.

    Really?

    Helsinki.

    Thanks for playing, K.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. @237. Given how many of these campaigning senators are going to be tied up for weeks in Washington w/t impeachment ‘trial’ and the travel hassles that causes along w/t primaries rolling out, this may have been a strategic bone Pelosi threw to Biden as they have a long Congressional history. Seems a plausible rationale for her month long big stall as she was never going to win a battle over Senate procedures w/McConnell.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  231. @207 regardless of how old the argument may be, there are ways we all benefit from illegal aliens because paying them doesn’t cost much. In the 80s/90s Nebraska studied it in regard to the meatpacking industry and decided they’d rather keep the under the table workers.

    Nic (896fdf)

  232. @240. Cruise any Home Depot or Lowe’s parking lot in Southern California, early in the day, and you’ll find a group gathered t one corner willing to work for under-the-table wages, too. It always comes back to the same thing- do you go after the workers or the firms hiring them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  233. 238. Thisis the correct link:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/19/opinion/amy-klobuchar-elizabeth-warren-nytimes-endorsement.html

    You left off the html at the end.

    The page stats off with:

    In a break with convention, the editorial board has chosen to endorse two separate Democratic candidates for president.

    This is not a parody web page. This is real.

    Their argument: Trump is really bad.

    Many people would like to decide on the basis of about who can best beat Trump. But nobody knows. So ignore that. We will not ignore, however, who has the better chances of winning the nomination, so Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Steve Bullock, Michael Bennet, Deval Patrick, and Jay Inslee were ALL out of consideration by our august editorial board.

    There’a debate on the Democratic side between those who see Trump as an aberration and those who think Trump was the product of rotten systems that need to be replaced. There’s no real debate between the Democratic candidates. They differ only on whether the country’s institutions are sturdy or our democratic system in fundamentally broken.

    We decided not to endorse one candidate but to pick the best advocates for each approach: Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar. Bernie Sanders is too rigid and divisive, and also maybe unhealthy. We don’t need another over-promising, divisive figure in Washington. Elizabeth Warren is a much better speaker. Her plans are well thought through, except for the numerous open questions she wouldn’t answer. And some of her ideas are bad. But she talks about bringing people together and would start off on an issue that can gain bi-partisan support: anti-corruption legislation.

    It was harder picking the moderate to endorse. Of course, as usual, we only endorse someone who has a chance of winning and we had to think a little it about if Elizabeth Warren could win the nomination but decided she had enough of a chance to be worthy of our endorsement.

    Pete Buttigieg – we like him, but it’s not his turn yet. Andrew Yang has no experience in government. We like experience and hope he gets some. Mike Bloomberg has plenty of experience and we endorsed him for mayor twice, but we don’t like the fact that he is self-financing plus he might have a few conflicts of interest. he hasn’t released several women from non disclosure agreements and he refused to meet with us.

    Joe Biden: His lead in the polls, always very important to us, although polling is in tatters, may just reflect familiarity. But you know, actually he’s too old and we want more than a return to the status quo, although not necessarily as much change as Elizabeth Warren wants to make.

    That leaves Amy Klobuchar, who fortunately is the very definition of Midwestern charisma. And grit. And sticktoitiveness. And bipartisan like Warren.

    Sammy Finkelman (2cb3c3)

  234. “ 238. Thisis the correct link:”

    I may have posted the original link correctly considering the Times was told by many that the original link didn’t work.

    Regardless, I’m still shocked that The Times would imply that two women = one man.
    __ _

    NeverTweet
    @LOLNeverTweet
    ·
    A duo in the tradition of Batman and Robin, Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid, The Lone Ranger and 23andMe

    __ _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  235. Cattle Annie and Little Britches …

    nk (dbc370)

  236. @207 regardless of how old the argument may be, there are ways we all benefit from illegal aliens because paying them doesn’t cost much. In the 80s/90s Nebraska studied it in regard to the meatpacking industry and decided they’d rather keep the under the table workers.

    Yes, I understand the hypocrisy of bosses. Rich jerkoff bosses who want a porous border to let their scabs through, and immigration laws that will keep them in the shadows and under their thumbs.

    nk (dbc370)

  237. Rich jerkoff bosses who want a porous border to let their scabs through, and immigration laws that will keep them in the shadows and under their thumbs.
    nk (dbc370) — 1/19/2020 @ 10:55 pm

    Someone once suggested that a way to curb illegal hiring, was to give the illegals legal recourse to address employer abuses. So make it more expensive, in the long run, to hire illegals. The idea could be sold to the Dems as a “guest-worker’s rights bill,” I wager. Every advocate would pound these “rights” into the shadow market. With the unintended consequences being employers souring on the idea of hiring illegals.

    felipe (023cc9)

  238. Dog gone it! Forgot to terminate the quote. Anyway, good morning to all. Let us enjoy this day as if it were our last. Ironically, I have a Doctor’s apptmnt today. I should go see my Priest.

    felipe (023cc9)

  239. 240. Nebraska may have been soured on the idea in 1996 when the City of Chicago, days ahead of the Democratic National Convention in July, made arrangements to sweep hundreds of homeless from the streets and temp them out to some meatpackers out there. Never again said the meatpackers.

    Asset’s ideal candidate would do nothing different from Trump except maybe frog March presumably Anglo upper/plant management in the front of the queue being deported. That approach would actually cause employment descrimination against native born Latinos because why take a chance on papers being false?

    urbanleftbehind (f50afc)

  240. 246, I dunno if the message would be gotten, Felipe. One could argue the Delta Smelt protection scheme in CA was a long term limp wrist bearing way to reduce illegal immigration by making water consumption by agricultural extremely cost prohibitive.

    Not to say such an approach or alliance cant happen. The current ruling government coalition in Austria is firm (lying between far and center) right nationalist plus Greens, plus Mickey Kaus and others here have entertained the notion of a similar alliance here in the states, since many enviros were originally Zero Population Growth adherents.

    urbanleftbehind (f50afc)

  241. The right way, of course, is to enslave them. No Constitutional Amendment needed. Just make being in the United States illegally punishable by ten years’ (or seven if you want to be a traditionalist) incarceration:

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Then farm them out to the bosses. Is the $1.67 wage paid to prisoners the hourly rate or the daily rate?

    nk (dbc370)

  242. NYT Editorial Board endorses both Liz & Amy. So The Grey Lady believes it takes two Plain Janes to replace one Donald.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  243. DCSCA 238:

    So, who will you be voting for come primary season? Since you are not a Trump man (on the basis of his ability to keep Putin smiling)

    Appalled (1a17de)

  244. Dustin,

    This started with me claiming that McSally deserved some respect for being the first female combat pilot, and then DCSCA called her a “punk-mouthed ass.” (Irony alert) LATER, he starting bringing in other people’s qualifications to hide his boorishness. All I have tried to do was defend my original point, but I seem to have again fed the troll.

    Kevin M (19357e) — 1/19/2020 @ 7:50 pm

    I know. I’m actually ‘on your side’ but the Fikes post has me wanting to at least try to not be a dick. It’s a challenge for me with politics these days.

    I’m the last one who can point the finger. That wasn’t my point. They both served their country. Who cares who has the biggest ailerons.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  245. DCSCA 238:

    So, who will you be voting for come primary season? Since you are not a Trump man (on the basis of his ability to keep Putin smiling)

    Appalled (1a17de) — 1/20/2020 @ 8:31 am

    I’m also curious.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)


  246. Matt Whitlock
    @mattdizwhitlock
    ·
    At some point this starts to feel like a concerted effort by major media companies to smear.

    Yesterday Ben Collins with a viral tweet calling this a “white nationalist rally.”

    Today this guy tweets a video of the pledge of allegiance saying it’s a “we will not comply” chant.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  247. The right way, of course, is to enslave them. No Constitutional Amendment needed. Just make being in the United States illegally punishable by ten years’ (or seven if you want to be a traditionalist) incarceration

    This is actually the sensible approach. The realistic way to stop illegal immigration is not to stop every violator, but to make the disincentives outweigh the incentives. The incentives are financial. The disincentives should eliminate those financial incentives, and then some.

    1) No tax exemptions or deductions apply to people who earn wages without legal status. They would be taxed at the maximum rate from the first dollar illegally earned.

    2) 100% surtax on all income earned without legal status.

    3) The surtax would be in addition to any normal taxes owed. Thus, if you made $50,000 illegally, you might owe $70,000 in tax.

    4) Massive fine, equivalent to roughly a year’s wages, which covers the costs of immigration enforcement. Fine doubles with each subsequent offense.

    5) All fines and taxes owed are payable before release. Payment by the government of the home country is accepted. Anyone who can’t pay would be detailed to work at camps in the Alaska wilderness until they have accumulated sufficient work credit to discharge their taxes and fines owed, and living expenses incurred by the United States during the repayment period.

    6) Bringing minor children into the country illegally will be treated as child abuse and per se evidence of unfitness as a parent, and subject to additional (large) fines. Any minor children will be returned to relatives in their native country, or housed with their parent, at the parent’s expense, during the repayment period.

    Dave (1bb933)

  248. They both served their country. Who cares who has the biggest ailerons.

    I don’t, but only one of them is running for the Senate in AZ. Again, the other lady is only brought in by DSPCA to confuse the issue as he trolls.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  249. If we cannot stop citizenship abuse by NON-immigrant tourists — where people fly an expectant mother in on Monday, who gives birth on Wednesday, then they fly out on Friday with their baby’s citizenship papers — then we have no hope of dealing with abuse by actual immigrants.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  250. We will also not be rid of at least the attempts at illegal immigration until we deal with our broken system. Not to compare the two, but our immigration laws are as broken and the 55MPH speed limit was — when the law is ignored by the majority, the law is broken.

    The question we need to be asking is “Why are these people not just applying for entry in the approved manner?”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  251. I looked up Jeannie Leavitt. If she is the “first female combat pilot”, it is only in the sense that she was the first woman to sign up for, or graduate from, F-15 fighter training after the change in the rules. Here is a list of her assignments for the time-period in question

    Assignments
    January 1992 – March 1993, student, Undergraduate Pilot Training, Laughlin AFB, Texas.
    March 1993 – July 1993, T-38 instructor pilot upgrade trainee, Randolph AFB, Texas, later Vance AFB, Oklahoma.
    July 1993 – April 1994, student, F-15E Formal Training Course, 555th Fighter Squadron, Luke AFB, Arizona.
    April 1994 – January 1998, instructor pilot, training officer, later Assistant Chief of Weapons, then Assistant Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, 336th Fighter Squadron, Seymour Johnson AFB, North Carolina.
    January 1998 – July 1998, student, USAF Weapons Instructor Course, F-15E Division, Nellis AFB, Nevada.
    July 1998 – June 2001, F-15E instructor pilot, Assistant Chief then Chief of Weapons and Tactics, later Flight Commander then Assistant Operations Officer, 391st Fighter Squadron, Mountain Home AFB, Idaho.
    June 2001 – August 2003, F-15E instructor pilot, Wing Standardization and Evaluation Examiner, 57th Operations Group, later Academics Flight Commander then Assistant Operations Officer for Academics, 17th Weapons Squadron, USAF Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nevada.
    August 2003 – July 2004, student, Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell AFB, Alabama.
    July 2004 – September 2005, Chief of Special Technical Operations, United States Forces Korea, Yongsan Army Garrison, Seoul, South Korea.

    I suggest a little bit of spin/resume padding by the public relations team at the Air Force, likely on orders from Leavitt’s higher-up patrons. You don’t get to become a Major General without knowing which asses to kiss and when people on the inside giving you a pull up. McSally, in contrast, sued them for making service-women stationed in Saudi Arabia wear burkhas.

    nk (dbc370)

  252. McSally, in contrast, sued them for making service-women stationed in Saudi Arabia wear burkhas.

    Which implies she was flying in combat.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  253. @250 and @256. We could just eat them, that would work too. (hat tip to J. Swift)

    Nic (896fdf)

  254. Right on, Nic. Those 2 befuddle me considering their internecine beef and their perfect-enemy-of-good opposition to the T-man.

    urbanleftbehind (b606f0)

  255. If only Trump were merely imperfect yet good. But he’s bad.

    Trump has to produce results to win me over. Balance the budget.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  256. Personally, I think military pilots, A-10 or F-15 (or space shuttle), men or woman, are pretty awesome. I also do think this experience is helpful when making decisions about the military.

    Yeah, I don’t really understand this worship of Vets and fighter/bomber pilots. You know who was a great Bomber Pilot? George McGovern. I suppose you can make the case, that if someone is war vet or a fighter/bomber pilot, they are patriotic, not motivated PRIMARY by $$$, and pretty intelligent. Of course, even that isn’t 100 percent true, since Robert Altman made movies primarily for $$ and did it in a haze of booze, cocaine, and MJ.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  257. And can we please stop with the SHE was a great Pilot. sorry, i don’t believe that. Almost every female pilot is held to a lower standard then male ones. If they do well, they’re labeled “excellent”, if the do poorly they’re labeled “average”. If they do something 20 excellent male pilots do, they are “the greatest thing ever”. Its AA baby syndrome. You see it business and you see it sports and you see it Government.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  258. BTW flying isn’t combat. Racking up lots of hours flying a jet, isn’t the same as engaging in combat and shooting down enemy aircraft. BTW, McCain seems to have been a pretty lousy pilot, and probably would’ve been bounced after crashing two jets, if he hadn’t been the son of Admiral. McCain even admitted he got shot down because he stayed too long over the target. Hot headed, impulsive, not particularly competent. That’s our Johnny McCain.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  259. Well, if you call anything short of deporting all the illegals “amnesty”

    Except I’m NOT calling it that. Amnesty is forgving people for their breaking the immigration laws, AND giving legal residency and/or citizenship to people in this country illegally. And ALSO allowing them then bring in their family members under “Chain migration”.

    Romney as shown by his opposition to every immigration reform proposed by Trump ANd his opposition to any border fence or increased border security is showing his true colors. He’s always wanted “Open borders” – he just lied about that when running for the R nominations.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  260. Elizabeth warren “How could the american people want someone who lies!” Not kidding source ace of spades hq and @cbszak

    asset (e9ec94)

  261. @266 I’d be interested in reading a comparison between male and female pilots. Do you happen to have a link to where you read that?

    Nic (896fdf)

  262. “ Elizabeth warren “How could the american people want someone who lies!” Not kidding source ace of spades hq and @cbszak”

    The NYTimes, in their endorsement special, said she was a “gifted storyteller”.
    _

    harkin (d6cfee)

  263. BTW flying isn’t combat. Racking up lots of hours flying a jet, isn’t the same as engaging in combat and shooting down enemy aircraft. BTW, McCain seems to have been a pretty lousy pilot, and probably would’ve been bounced after crashing two jets, if he hadn’t been the son of Admiral. McCain even admitted he got shot down because he stayed too long over the target. Hot headed, impulsive, not particularly competent. That’s our Johnny McCain.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 1/20/2020 @ 12:47 pm

    Is staying over the target bravery or incompetence?

    I think it’s one thing to criticize the character of his Senate career. Plenty of reason for that. But the guy was tortured psychologically. Had his legs and arms all broken, one of them repeatedly, and was offered a trip home. He refused. His military service was exemplary.

    I know Trump thought it was funny to disparage a lot of military heroism and veterans, even those who aren’t even alive, just as he thought it was funny to brag he gropes women, even those who didn’t consent. It’s trashy actually. Keyboard commando pathetic stuff. Electing a trashy president has harmed our society and I really hope Trump is removed from office or defeated. His fans should strive for honor in their consideration of facts and those who did not agree with Trump, criticized Trump, or did not consent to being sexually assaulted by the president.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  264. she was a “gifted storyteller
    ———–
    Yes. Need to add drag queens to the list of people she’s taken jobs from.

    PTw (894877)

  265. @262. Look-it-up-closer: ‘Leavitt’s F-15 flight hours [3,000] have included 300 combat hours, mostly over Afghanistan and Iraq. On one mission, during Operation Southern Watch in 1996, she supported a Royal Air Force Tornado GR1 under threat from an Iraqi Roland surface-to-air missile.’- source, wiki-after-her-burners-bio
    ___________

    @252. See #230: That’s when it started.

    ___________

    @253. Who cares who has the biggest ailerons.’ Likely the ladies: they’d love it; makes for quite the cultural change from times gone by. ‘Course when AF pilots learn how to land on a pitching carrier deck at night as naval aviators like Kelly routinely do, they might rate one day. 😉
    ___________

    @252-@254: It’s a win-win from my POV: believe the strategy is well known to regulars. In just 3 years Trump has been far more successful [w/t help of the weakness of the modern ideological conservative movement] than ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ or Dems have been in 40 but there are some embers [Lincoln Project, etc.,] which still need contained– or extinguished. Still room in that trunk to go back into Goldwater’s attic and judgeships are a reasonably fair price pay.

    The real questions to ask are how sit the ratings for his ‘show’ w/t audience; or whether the electorate has tired of the daily soap opera.

    ‘Course if Trump, in spite of his idiotic, international incompetence, was riding a Hoover economy into re-election he’d be dumped PDQ–but he’s not. Do they cancel JRs Dallas for The Librarians — or Will & Grace… or four years of Larry David stand-up 24/7—- or worse, the plagiarist Mister Magoo?

    Never forget that in this era, Americans don’t want to be governed, they wish to be entertained. Trump is still the bad boy everybody loves or loves to hate. He’s a bridge to someplace–or no place. It’s still a helluva show-syndicated worldwide- and beats the heck out of a Mister Magoo reboot. JR did 12 seasons; Trump will do 8– if he doesn’t get us all blown up first.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  266. And can we please stop with the SHE was a great Pilot. sorry, i don’t believe that. Almost every female pilot is held to a lower standard then male ones. If they do well, they’re labeled “excellent”, if the do poorly they’re labeled “average”. If they do something 20 excellent male pilots do, they are “the greatest thing ever”. Its AA baby syndrome. You see it business and you see it sports and you see it Government.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 1/20/2020 @ 12:42 pm

    So we should stop saying something that appears to be very well documented because you do not believe it. If you don’t believe it, it’s not true. Because of the babies out there. Gotcha.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  267. Lydia Litvyak was a world war II russian fighter ace. She shot down 13 nazi fascist aircraft and was awarded hero of the soviet union medal. Hitler like all sexist hated her and demanded that luftwaffe get her.

    asset (e9ec94)

  268. @272. ‘His military service was exemplary’. Notable but not exemplary; graduated near the bottom of is class, not a top flight aviator as he did lose a few aircraft; commendable efforts aboard the Forrestal but then the accident was an all hands on deck situation. If he had not been shot down and showcased as a POW as a captured admiral’s son he likely never would have been elected to public office. But his courage, strength, endurance and sacrifices as a POW in Hanoi are unquestionable and untouchable– hence all the more unforgivable remain the cheap shots by our Captain Bonespur.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  269. DCSCA

    So, the people are boobs and it’s good if the GOP goes Buchananite. What is your ideal politics among the candidates around today? Who is the Rockefeller Republican of 2020?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  270. @272. ‘His military service was exemplary’. Notable but not exemplary; graduated near the bottom of is class, not a top flight aviator as he did lose a few aircraft; commendable efforts aboard the Forrestal but then the accident was an all hands on deck situation. If he had not been shot down and showcased as a POW as a captured admiral’s son he likely never would have been elected to public office. But his courage, strength, endurance and sacrifices as a POW in Hanoi are unquestionable and untouchable– hence all the more unforgivable remain the cheap shots by our Captain Bonespur.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/20/2020 @ 1:35 pm

    Exemplary service requires mistakes, failures, and flaws. The sharp pencil is the one that never got any use.

    I agree he wasn’t a genius in his academy. But I just don’t care. I don’t even understand why that would be relevant to the character of his service.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  271. Who makes great fighter pilots try frank Luke, screwball buerling, pappy boyington and billy bishop to name a few. They were called many names ;but exemplary was not one of them.

    asset (e9ec94)

  272. @278. If you want to characterize the people as ‘boobs’ that’s your burden to carry; don’t forget those ‘boobs’ gave the other candidate more of the popular vote than the declared winner. Whether the GOP goes full Buchanan for 3 years or 30 or is irrelevant to me– whatever vaccine contains the ideological virus. But the longer the GOP keeps busy battling itself, the better– while the Dems keep sntcing defeat from the jaws of victory. Trump might be considered a ‘Rockefeller Republican’ of sorts in the general sense of the term– there is no perfect overlap. Possibly Bloomie, but he has changed “uniforms” more than The Dirty Dozen. The rise of the corporatists; the autocrats; the billionaires– many seeking their initial elected offices at or near the top- while at the same time, a surge in interest by the young and left behind into socialism is an intriging signpost pointing to changing times–and things to come.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  273. @279. Exemplary service requires mistakes, failures, and flaws.

    No. It doesn’t.

    “There are mistakes and mistakes. The margin for error is narrow here. There’s too much loss of life and property damage possible.” – Captain DeVriess [Tom Tully] ‘The Caine Mutiny’ 1954

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  274. No. It doesn’t.

    Oh yes it does. You can save fantasy perfection for actors, makeup, & Gene Roddenberry.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  275. Polunina has written that the kills of famous Soviet pilots, including those of Litvyak and Budanova, were often inflated; and that Litvyak should be credited with five solo aircraft kills and two group kills, including the observation balloon.

    It should also be noted that three times she was forced to land due to battle damage. And was wounded twice. She was finally KIA after 11 months at the front. Not exactly a great fighter pilot.

    Unlike 8th AF pilots, USSR fighters were usually engaged in combat close to the front. They could be wounded or damaged and still fight on. Many aces in the 8th AF had their careers brought up short because a damaged Aircraft usually meant a bailout or forced landing behind German lines.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  276. @283. No. It doesn’t. Making excuses for screw-ups is not exemplary service- that’s the fantasy. For starters, it’s expensive; costly in both material and lives. See Pearl Harbor for details.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  277. It should also be noted that three times she was forced to land due to battle damage. And was wounded twice. She was finally KIA after 11 months at the front. Not exactly a great fighter pilot.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 1/20/2020 @ 2:28 pm

    So even after being hurt, she kept fighting for her country. What a loser.

    @283. No. It doesn’t. Making excuses for screw-ups is not exemplary service- that’s the fantasy. For starters, it’s expensive; costly in both material and lives. See Pearl Harbor for details.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/20/2020 @ 2:28 pm

    This is typical of interactions with you. You know you’re mistaken. You’re even mistaken about my argument. I never said to make excuses for mistakes. My point, of course, is that exemplary is a big damn concept. You can’t be exemplary at doing something that is easy and safe. It has to be something most people can’t do. Something extremely dangerous or difficult (or both). Something that you have to try before you’re ready, and learn through mistake, risk, even loss.

    You quoted a movie to prove that you can be an exemplary and perfect warrior because of some platitude. No. I know a lot of really amazing people who served. They are not perfect.

    You should consider why you feel the need to ‘be right’ when you’re not. Why you need to announce that you’ve bagged and tagged an argument you probably didn’t even understand. Is it because you couldn’t do the exemplary yourself? There’s no shame in that. Exemplary is dangerous and hard, not to be found in internet debates.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  278. @286. Nonsense: ‘you know you’re mistaken’ – hence, you’re attempt to move goal posts. That’s the typicality. This was your lead sentence in your original post in #279:

    “Exemplary service requires mistakes, failures, and flaws.” [People, BTW, aren’t pencils.]

    My response in #282: “No. It doesn’t.”

    W/a follow-up response in #285. They are correct. Accept it, have a beer and toast MLK — and be done with it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  279. It’s comforting for Trumpsters to know The Dersh was for abuse of power as an impeachable offense in 1998 before he was against it in 2020. Harvard be damned; surely a graduate of the Lindsay Graham School of Law. But then, he’s working for the Constitution, not the President’s legal team– and is sooo good on TeeVee. What. A. Show.

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e255a6ac5b674e44b9ad92e?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  280. DCSCA

    When you make a constant point of the need for the American electorate to be entertained by politics, you sound very contemptuous of that electorate in an HL Mencken kind of way. Hence the word “boob”, which you won’t own. OK. You know your thoughts better than I do

    But it does seem like you are sort of Socialist, highly hopeful of the neutering of the Reagan/Goldwater tendency to the exclusion of almost all else.

    Fair enough. I feel that way about the Trumpist tendency.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  281. @289. You used the term, so own the lngue you use in your own post.

    Politics as ‘entertainment’ should be no news to conservatives or Republicans, particularly given the past 40 years or so; witness the spawn from Hollywood, Ronald Reagan, who quipped you had to be an actor to do the CiC gig. Putting the ideological wingnuts back in Goldwater’s attic trunk is long overdue and for that, IMO, Trump is a Godsend.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  282. ^language

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  283. Alan Dershowitz has been accused by two of sex-trafficker Jeffrey Epstein’s victims of rape. Dershowitz has also argued against age-of-consent laws, suggesting that the age of consent for sexual intercourse should be 15. Another friend of sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein’s, Donald Trump, said “It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” Does that strike any of Trumps fans as a little bit odd?

    Oh yeah Trump once told a 14 year old that he would be dating her soon. If you have the stomach for it, look at the way he is posing with his young daughter here. If you think this is normal — if you think any of this is normal — I think there is something wrong with you.

    https://time.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ivanka-donald-trump-014.jpg?w=760&w=760

    JRH (52aed3)

  284. Virginia is doing it’s part to make people remember that America is a constitutional carry nation. Take back our rights.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  285. @292 That poor kid, she looks about 14 in that picture and she is not dressed appropriately.

    Nic (896fdf)

  286. R.I.P. Terry Jones

    And now for something completely different…

    “Two down, four to go.” – John Cleese

    DCSCA (797bc0)


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