The Interview: James Comey Says He Was Overconfident, Chris Wallace Says Words Mean Something
[guest post by Dana]
James Comey admits that he was “wrong” about the bureau’s use of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in the Russia investigation:
“He’s right, I was wrong,” Comey told host Chris Wallace on “Fox News Sunday.” “I was overconfident in the procedures that the FBI and Justice had built over 20 years. I thought they were robust enough. It’s incredibly hard to get a FISA.”
“He’s right: There was real sloppiness,” Comey added.
President Trump’s reaction to Comey’s admission:
So now Comey’s admitting he was wrong. Wow, but he’s only doing so because he got caught red handed. He was actually caught a long time ago. So what are the consequences for his unlawful conduct. Could it be years in jail? Where are the apologies to me and others, Jim?
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 15, 2019
Chris Wallace: Horowitz says it wasn’t part — as you told Bret Baier — it wasn’t part of a broader mosaic. He said it played an essential role in establishing probable cause. In fact, he says, if it hadn’t been for the Steele dossier, the FBI probably would haven’t even submitted a FISA application — that it had been reviewed in April of 2016 — or August, rather, of 2016 — they decided not to do it. They get the Steele dossier. They do it. It wasn’t part of a broader mosaic. That’s what you said, sir.
James Comey: I’m not sure he and I are saying different things. What his report says is that the FBI thought it was a close call until they got the Steele report, put that additional information in, and that tipped it over to be probable cause. It’s a long FISA application. It includes Steele material and lots of other material. I don’t think we’re saying different things.
Chris Wallace: Well, I think you are, sir, because he’s saying — you’re saying it’s part of a broader mosaic; it’s just one element. He’s saying it was the tipping point. It’s what brought it over. That doesn’t make it part of a broader mosaic; it makes it the centerpiece of the whole FISA application and the ability to surveil Carter Page.
James Comey: Yeah. I don’t understand it to be saying that. I could be wrong about that —
Chris Wallace: Well, I’ve just — I’ve got his —
James Comey: — I understand —
Chris Wallace: — quote here. He says, “We concluded the Steele reporting played a central and essential role in the decision to seek a FISA warrant, that it pushed the FISA proposal over the line in terms of establishing probable cause.” I mean, he says —
James Comey: Yeah.
Chris Wallace: — what he says. Words mean something.
James Comey: Yeah. And I agree with his characterization. I’m just confused — I no — I don’t see the disconnect between the two of us. And I’m sorry that I’m missing it.
Here is the full interview with Chris Wallace and James Comey:
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (643cd6) — 12/16/2019 @ 10:33 amWow… he’s backpedaling quite a bit there.
He must be aware how much legal liability he must be under…
whembly (fd57f6) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:06 amI think Comey feels the hot breath of a Grand Jury on the back of his neck…
B.A. DuBois (80f588) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:11 amJoel B. Pollak
@joelpollak
·
media attacked
@DevinNunes
for his memo on FISA abuse last year & praised
@RepAdamSchiff’s response.
#IGreport shows Nunes was right, Schiff wrong.
No media corrections/apologies, & now they want us to trust Schiff on #impeachment
It’s not just media who owe Nunes an apology.
harkin (15bd84) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:18 am_
As usual Comey is lying. “yeah, there was a whole lotta evidence and the Dossier put it over the line”
FALSE. The Dossier was the entire reason. Did wallace ask Comey why he REFUSED to be given back his classified clearance, so he and the IG could discuss FBI memos/Documents or have his memory Refreshed?
Comey refused to cooperate with IG, and wanted the out to say “Oh gosh, I just don’t remember that” or “Hey, I’m sorta confused here, I have a bad memory, but as I REMEMBER it, I said…”
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:29 amLet’s recall how the Nunes Memo was viciously attacked.
I’ll let the commenters here who piled on identify themselves.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:51 amThere’s a column by David J Garrow in today’s Wall Street Journal about this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/multiple-levels-of-hearsay-upon-hearsay-11576439564`
There was another coluimn aalso on Friday by Kimberley strassel
Now, the thing is, it’s hard to argue political bias was behind the FISA warrants on Carter Page because at the tiem the applications to the FISA warrantys were made Carter Page had no role in the campaign or the election was over.
What I think this was was the FBI trying to keep some Democrats happy by pretending to invbestigate Donald Trump, without actually doing so.
I also have to make one pint about thsi column or the Horowitz Report. It’s quote possible (as Comey even said on Fox) that Steeel’s source was backtracking. That’s what he would have done if he knew it was false aand that he told those things to Christpher Steele as part of aRussian disinformation effort. I just don’t believe he was open with Steele about having what amounted to
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/16/2019 @ 12:34 pmunreliable information. I think he lied to Horowitz about what he told Steele.
I should’ve went with the sloppiness plea.
mg (8cbc69) — 12/16/2019 @ 2:18 pmDid they have that in 1972?
mg (8cbc69) — 12/16/2019 @ 2:19 pmNo Efrem Zimbalist Jr., he: Comey’s been peddling the sizzle and not the steak for years. Everybody at the LAPD is a Jack Webb, too, eh, Jimmy?!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/16/2019 @ 3:30 pmThe Steele Dossier is probably true. Putin made sure that it would remain “unsourced” to protect his Manchurian, is what probably happened. Those poor hookers! Did they at least make it to the Moscow morgue as Джейн Доуs for a decent burial, or did the FSB just dump their bodies out on the tundra for the wolves and ravens?
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 3:44 pmThis will be a short thread as they won’t respond nor will they own up to calling him a Russian asset.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/16/2019 @ 3:53 pmYour trolling is getting as bad as Happyfeet.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/16/2019 @ 3:54 pmAn example of lying about Nunes and the silence that follows once your lies are revealed.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/16/2019 @ 3:56 pmIt’s not trolling, I mean it. I now know a lot more about the corrupt criminal traitor than I did in 2016, and more and more of what was risible then is “Yes, that sounds like him” now.
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 4:02 pmI will say this, though, NJRob. I may have been wrong about the Senate Trumpablicans. It may not be pusillanimity. It may be “Mr. President, it only takes 20 of us for you be an ex-President. What do you have that we want?”
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 4:50 pmI don’t believe any of the Steele dossier and especially not the business with the bed/ The story there was that Trump supposedly so hated Obama he wanted to soil a bed Obama had slept in, or at last a bed in the same room. It’s something maybe only a Russian could think plausible. Trump did not hate Obama.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:34 pmThe reason to surveil Page was the 2 step rule. People who talked to Page were put under surveillance and so were people who talked to people who had talked to Surveillance. The FBI was investigating TRUMP. Comey told Trump he wasn’t under investigation 3 times, but we now know, that he was ALWAYS under investigation! And when Trump fired Comey, McCabe opened ANOTHER investigation on Trump for obstruction of justice. AND asked Rosenstein to wear a wire and “trap” Trump.
So the whole, “Well they couldn’t have been politically biased because it was almost AFTER The campaign” is NONSENSE.
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:42 pmWe were assured by Comey and Rosenstein both that the FISA process was robust… because all the right people had to sign off on it. Comey has been a sanctimonious liar from the get go.
steveg (354706) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:44 pmMaybe Putin is such a big fan of teh golden shower that he just assumed everyone was just like him
steveg (354706) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:45 pmYou seem to forget that from November 2016 to May 2017, we were constantly told by the MSM, that Trump was “Colluding with Russia” and that the FBi was investigating him. And comey added to the fire, by constantly refusing to say – in public – that TRump was NOT under investigation. Whenever asked Comey would say “I can’t answer that in public but ONLY Behind closed doors – very hush hush”. Thereby leading everyone to think Trump WAS under investigation.
And the second he got fired, we got Mueller for 2 years and “the walls are closing in…”
And we were all supposed to laugh and scoff when Trump said he’d been wire-tapped in April 2017. haha. except HE WAS.
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:47 pmWe were also assured that Comey was a “Life Long Republcian” a “Straight shooter” and a “Man of Honor” We now know that was a TOTAL LIE.
We were also told that Mueller was the great GRAND OLD MAN. Why, no investigation with “Life long Republican” mueller, the “soul of honor” could be biased or slanted. Now we know, he was just a figurehead, a guy who never spoke in public because he was one step from senility. And that a bunch of partisan hacks, and Hillary supporters were running the investigation.
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:52 pmWe were also told that Mueller was the great GRAND OLD MAN. Why, no investigation with “Life long Republican” mueller, the “soul of honor” could be biased or slanted. Now we know, he was just a figurehead, a guy who never spoke in public because he was one step from senility. And that a bunch of partisan hacks, and Hillary supporters were running the investigation.
The Mueller investigation needs to be redone from the beginning.
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:57 pmnk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 5:57 pm
felipe (023cc9) — 12/16/2019 @ 6:34 pmHeh, second verse, same as the first.
You know the saying “it’s always in the last place you look?” Yeah, it’s because you stop looking once you’ve found the thing you are looking for. If it hadn’t been there, you’d have looked someplace else. The dossier was the tipping point because they reached the point of “yep, that’s enough”. We know what’s out there. Something else would have been “yep, that’s enough” if the dossier hadn’t done it.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/16/2019 @ 6:59 pmYup. Natalia Veselnitskaya, a total Putin stooge and a co-conspirator in the murder of Sergei Magnitsky, meeting Don Jr., Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner at Trump Tower, was not only probable cause for a “tapp” of the Trump campaign, it was probable cause for a full-blown FBI SWAT raid on the Trump campaign. With machine guns and flash-bangs. And shooting the family pet.
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2019 @ 7:07 pm“Trump did not hate Obama.”
Trump was an outspoken birther.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 12/16/2019 @ 7:07 pm’You know the saying “it’s always in the last place you look?” Yeah, it’s because you stop looking once you’ve found the thing you are looking for. If it hadn’t been there, you’d have looked someplace else.’
Nic (896fdf) — 12/16/2019 @ 6:59 pm
That’s probably what Nifong said about his DNA evidence.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/16/2019 @ 7:13 pm“If only that one gust of wind hadn’t taken off that shingle, the roof would have stayed on,” said the sopping wet man in the middle of the hurricane. “That was the tipping point.”
Nic (896fdf) — 12/16/2019 @ 7:24 pmThat was Hillary Clinton. Try and remember.
P.S. Looks like I was right. Not a single person owned up to their BS pushing the false dossier. Why is that?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/16/2019 @ 8:10 pmNJRob, you’re asking why no one is defending that corrupt Nunes guy? You defend him if you want. This form of argument comes from the Ace of Spades playbook.
A) Huge lie
B) See how no one is saying they agree with huge lie? I’m freaking mad!!!
C) the anger is supposed to convince me the lie is actually the truth
D) I get to see this repeated 65 times on the blogs that ‘just don’t get it’
It is amazing that you’re bashing Hillary as a birther in defense of Trump. Amazing. None of these politicians are worth that kind of twisting. No one was a bigger birther than Trump was.
Dustin (7de6cb) — 12/16/2019 @ 8:27 pmIt’s crap all the way down. We’ve known since Bush 2 that Comey and Mueller were lying weasels. The Russiagate stuff never made sense. It’s not even up to the level of conspiracy theory logic. We also know Brennan and Schiff are lying weasels. The FBI lied to get these FISA warrants and has been lying about them since.
The real question is whether any of this will trigger any reflection. My guess is we’ll keep hearing from the usual parties how this lying, corruption, and undermining of our institutions is no big deal because we’ve got to get Trump because he lies, is corrupt, and he undermines our institutions.
At this point I believe RBG has been dead for at least 6 months simply because the media keeps putting out obvious proof of life pieces and telling us she’s in perfect health.
frosty (f27e97) — 12/16/2019 @ 8:39 pm@31 I’m not sure that this is a thread winner yet but it deserves special recognition. Obviously they are worth this sort of twisting since you’ve got at least two twisted up things I’m not sure are points in one post.
Let’s see if we can unwind this.
Since you’re criticizing Nunes’ criticism of the dossier are you still arguing in favor of it? Even now that Comey is starting to back down? You’re all good with the FBI lying to a FISA court to obtain a warrant? That’s a bold move Cotton.
Technically, I think Trump might outweigh HRC by a couple of ounces but it’s hard to be sure given her obvious mastery of all skills relating to being full crap. But you’re sure he is the bigger birther? I’m reluctant to comment on this without knowing if we’re measuring this by mass, surface area, etc.
frosty (f27e97) — 12/16/2019 @ 9:03 pmDustin are you standing by the dossier? Are you saying Nunes is lying and the inspector is lying, but Schiff is telling the truth?
Ir are you just deflecting yet again because you don’t want to admit the truth?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/16/2019 @ 9:26 pmschiff truthers will never apologize.
mg (8cbc69) — 12/16/2019 @ 10:56 pmhttps://thefederalist.com/2019/12/16/ukrainian-oligarch-paid-700000-to-the-husband-of-a-house-judiciary-committee-democrat/
mg (8cbc69) — 12/16/2019 @ 11:17 pmwhat a scam
Nunes was correct about the FISA abuses. He was incorrect that the Steel dossier was the basis for the Russia investigation. He was incorrect that the investigation was started or lead by Peter Stzrok, someone that appears to have a political bias against trump. If he was correct that the investigation was politically motivated no one has produced evidence to support that yet.
Munroe, RC, and NJ, I understand why you’re upset that the Nunes memo wasn’t taken more credibly and that people who think Nunes is a hackish clown (I’m one of them) disregarded him. He was partly correct in this instance and I’m fully on board that FISA needs to be reformed.
Since we’re taking victory laps based on the IG report, how about you each admit that there’s no evidence that the FBI investigation was politically motivated?
Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:02 amThe Wall Street Journal has an editorial today about Comey and the Steele dossier today..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-incredibly-incurious-mr-comey-11576540870
I would say that the reason Putin’s intelligence agency co-operated with Steele is that it didn’t want to undermine his earlier reporting, which said that it was easy to get certain Russian sources to talk, and you didn’t even need to pay them. So here we see that a lot of his earlier reporting wasn’t true.
And what he todl the FBI about Russian oligarchs after 2013 largely wasn’t true either.
And I don;t think what he got in 216 was gossip – it was disinformation. Disinformation sprinkled with some deliberate errors of known fact (like the position someone held in the Russian government, or placing a Russian consulate in a city which didn’t have one) in order that it shold be abe to be retracted in case it backfired.
And I don’t think there was the slightest resemblance to the truth in what Steele was told. Steele’s task was to find out why Putin was supporting Trump for president (it being taken for granted, and blatantly obvious too, to Hillary and company, that he was.)
Steele got told lies: Basically two kinds of lies:
1) that the Russians had “compromat” on Donald Trump, which is where the bed story figures in and
2) that there had been a long term connection the Siberian candidate so to speak) between Trump and Russia going back even maybe to the time when it was the Soviet Union, and that Russia had even subsidized Trump’s businesses in various ways.
The truth probably was:
1) That, in 2014, (and illary knows it was then and not in 2011) Putin determined that Hillary Clinton was against him because Victoria Nuland played a crucial role in the Maiden revolution. He assumed that she was one of Hillary’s women. But she was not, or else she woujld have left the State Department at about the same time as did Hillary. Part of this mistake on Putin’s part was assuming that Hillary Clinton had principles.
2) That Putin hoped to be able to plant spies or agents of influence in a future Trump administration. This turned not to be too successful. heir best candidates never became Russian penetration agents. Although he managed to get Paul Manafort hired by the campaign (this part remains to be seen) Paul Manafort never let himself be recruited as a Russian spy, although he played along for awhile – and he also he had no intention of going to work for the government because he needed more money than that paid (and if he had thought of getting money under the table, occupying an official position was not a good idea for him) and Mike Flynn got fired.
But it proved to be somewhat successful in the spring of 2019 running through early September.
Although it didn’t amount to too much and in the end, strengthened U.S. support for Ukraine.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:25 amOops: I didn’t successfully close the last italics.
Here’s an earlier Wall Street Journal editorial:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-trail-of-fbi-abuse-11575938300
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:26 am37. Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:02 am
I think don’t understand what the FBI was up to.
It wanted not to anger both parties.
It didn’t want to bet on which side was going to win the election, or who in Washington was going to have influence over the FBI.
So they did just a little to satisfy Steele and the Democrats but nothing that could affect the outcome of the election. That little bit was the FISA warrants on peripheral figures.
Also, many people higher up in DOJ did not want to leave themselves vulnerable to an accusation that they had misused the FBI.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:32 am* I think [most people] don’t understand what the FBI was up to.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:33 amThat’s not what Horowitz said. Here is what he said,
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/17/2019 @ 7:22 amrcocean, you have just revealed yourself to be ignorant of Horowitz’s findings.
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/17/2019 @ 7:33 amNJRob:
Because he found no evidence of it. He said “we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced” the decision to begin the counterintelligence investigation.
So, as Time123 said, how about you admit that Horowitz found no evidence that the initiation of the FBI investigation was politically motivated?
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/17/2019 @ 7:37 amHell hath no fury like insufferable mountebanks being asked to admit that they were wrong about something.
PTw (894877) — 12/17/2019 @ 7:44 am“Since we’re taking victory laps based on the IG report, how about you each admit that there’s no evidence that the FBI investigation was politically motivated?”
Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:02 am
Viva le Obstinance.
It’s akin to the Black Knight in the Holy Grail, with all but one limb hacked off. We know what happens next.
With the Black Knight now reduced to a mere stump of a man, he says, “All right, we’ll call it a draw.”
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 7:56 amHe didn’t find the smoking gun that said, “yes, let’s use a politically motivated investigation to hurt Trump.”
Though their actions clearly did just that. The FBI knew the dossier was a sham in Jan 2017 yet Comey “informed” Trump of its contents so it could be leaked. The text messages between FBI lovers that were deleted and found showed extreme partisan bias.
But in the narrow criteria for Horowitz’s investigation, he didn’t find anything that was a smoking gun.
Now your turn. Willing to call out those who pushed the bogus dossier?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/17/2019 @ 8:36 amThat’s Trump, right?
Radegunda (36778b) — 12/17/2019 @ 8:38 amPatterico @44.
The problem here is that NJ Rob (and many others) seem to think that “intentional misconduct” = “politically motivated” in the sense of having animus toward Trump.
I think it is true that “sheer gross incompetence” is an implausible alternative. That could explain some things but not altering an email to make it say exactly the opposite of what it said. That was probably motivated by he desire to cover up the fact there was something wrong with the first FISA warrant – and maybe they’d find something that could prosecute.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 8:44 amIf it can be shown the head of the FBI knew the dossier was false, yet signed off on FISA spying using it anyway by presenting false information to the courts, should he and the others that performed these acts go to jail?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:05 amLisa Page
@NatSecLisa
Going on the Rachel Maddow Show tonight. It’s time to talk about the release of my text messages, the two years of lies shouted across the media about me, and what it’s like when the President of the United States tries to ruin your life.
__ _
Stephen Miller
@redsteeze
·
‘People have lied about my liberal bias in text messages, so I’m going on Maddow on MSNBC to set the record straight.’
Are you brain geniuses going out of your way to prove Trump’s dumb theory about a deep state conspiring against him?
__ _
Henry Chinaski
@ashsoles
·
Such a “dumb theory” that the DOJ’s own Inspector General referred his entire report on 2 dozen upper level FBI/DOJ Collusion Coup Plotters to the DOJ for possible criminal prosecution for their actions from 2015-2019.
__ __
Mason hoover
@Mason327
·
The first rule of deep state is to not talk about deep state
__ _
NYTimes – Oct 2019
The ‘Deep State’ Exists To Battle People Like Trump
Financial Times – Oct 2019
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:21 amWhy We Should Celebrate America’s Deep State
_
So it’s a “No.” from Munroe and NJRob. Apparently, the only part of the report that they accept as accurate is the part that supports their prior assumptions.Not surprised, Trump is a huge fan of conspiracy theories and refuses to admit when he’s wrong. You’re both just following the behavior modeled by the him.
NJRob, If it can be shown that Comey broke the law he should prosecuted according to the law. Since the DOJ hasn’t done so I assume that his known actions don’t support a prosecution. But that’s just an assumption on my part. As far as calling out people who advocated the dossier as being accurate, can you tell me what you’re looking for?
Does anyone know if Nunes voted against the latest FISA re-authorization? Did Trump sign it? Because I suspect that neither of them really care about civil liberties and that their outrage is because this impacted them politically/personally.
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:54 am@46, I assume you’re talking about yourself here.
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:55 amHere’s a pertinent section from the IG report
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:59 amThat’s today’s take:
‘The Rethugs supported the very law that the Never Trumpers abused!!’
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:01 amTime123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 9:54 am
Remember when that lead investigator altered a FISA document and texted “MAGA”? I don’t, but I’m sure that’s the only scenario in which FBI bias would be proven in the eyes of the media, #AlwaysSchiffers, and some here.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:04 amI’d have accepted the IGs conclusion if they concluded it was politically motivated. But they didn’t. They even went so far to saybthey did not find evidence.
Not insufficient evidence.
Not minimal evidence.
Not conflicting evidence.
But go on black knight this is just a touch. Your conspiracy theory will be proven with the next report.
Time123 (de0f5d) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:15 am@55
2 things:
1 I think the FISA process needs to be reformed. I’ve said that before on this site. I mean it.
Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:21 am2. We concluded that Priestap’s exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision. There’s no evidence this was motivated by improper motivation. Which means this is how the FBI operates. There’s plenty of other evidence in this report, and the prior report on FISA, that are in line with that. Open your mind to the idea that not everything is about Trump. FISA would need to be reformed regardless of who was POTUS.
Time123,
have you at any point claimed that the dossier was verified as those through the media did repeatedly and others on this very site have done?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:21 amWe’ve heard plenty on this blog about Barr’s political bias. AFAIK, he didn’t surreptitiously alter a piece of evidence before a court.
So, if you’re going to pretend Clinesmith wasn’t motivated by political bias, then you’re establishing a bar that certainly Barr has not met.
I hope we’re not going to hear anything about Barr’s political bias from now on, but I seriously doubt it.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:23 am@59, not that I recall. I didn’t think it was going to turn out to be 100% factual but I was surprised that it was as bad as it is.
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:29 amClinesmith wasn’t the lead investigator. He didn’t open the investigation. He was an OCG attorney who altered evidence. He should be disbarred and, if appropriate, prosecuted for it. He doesn’t change the fact that “We concluded that Priestap’s exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision.”
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:37 amI mean to put in another line before this part
“We concluded that Priestap’s exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision.”
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:38 amNobody pretended that, and you shouldn’t pretend that people are pretending on the subject, but it’s irrelevant to the decision to go forward on Crossfire Hurricane. Clinesmith was biased enough to forge an email relating to one of the FISA renewals, and he was busted on it.
Paul Montagu (af70d6) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:42 am“Clinesmith wasn’t the lead investigator. He didn’t open the investigation. He was an OCG attorney who altered evidence.“
Time123 (797615) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:37 am
His position has zilch to do with whether it was bias or not. What he did and what he was given responsibility for is the only thing of relevance.
Go ahead and dismiss this as lacking bias. Just don’t try to sell any nonsense about Barr’s bias.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:47 amWow you’re really desperate to get the subject changed.
Clinesmith violated the rules in a way that should be punished severely. But he wasn’t in charge of the investigation, it wasn’t his decision to open it, and he wasn’t responsible for setting direction. Based on my reading of the IG report he was supposed to review materiel to prepare for the FISA application But we agree, he needs to be prosecuted.
Now that we’ve agreed on that, how about your admit the investigation was properly predicated and not opened for politically biased or improper reasons?
Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:57 am“Wow you’re really desperate to get the subject changed.”
Time123 (353edd) — 12/17/2019 @ 10:57 am
The subject is political bias, as brought up in your @37, regarding which you’ve set a bar. We’ll go with that.
And sorry, no we agree on nothing here.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 11:08 amWell, if there was improper motivation, and they know it’s improper, they’re not going to create documentary evidence of that. They’re going to create documentary evidence of just the opposite. And there’s not going to be
testimonial evidence unless you ask the right questions.
Like: Were you influenced by Christopher Steele? Did you get any referral from any member of Congress? What was the decision-making process?
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 12/17/2019 @ 12:09 pmWooo… FISA has publicaly made an announcement:
whembly (fd57f6) — 12/17/2019 @ 12:50 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/us/politics/fisa-court-order-fbi-surveillance.html
@69. Good. It’s about time for the process to be improved. This is a good first step.
Time123 (53ef45) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:19 pmYou don’t think the lawyer who modified an email to remove exculpatory information should be disbarred and prosecuted if appropriate? I find that surprising. May I ask why not?
The bar I’ve set is that I’m willing to believe an IG report when they concludes someone’s exercise of discretion in opening the investigation is in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and when they say they did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision.
That’s a bar I’m willing to live with. How about you? Can you state your proposed rule in plain language? Or do you want to keep hopping around on one foot claiming you’ll get them next time?
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:25 pmIf Comey wants to turn state’s evidence, he’d better get on that chop chop. It’s deal-making time if you want to turn in everyone else in the conspiracy and get out in 10-15 years.
Ingot9455 (7ff01c) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:30 pm@72 what crime do you think be committed?
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:33 pm“That’s a bar I’m willing to live with. How about you? Can you state your proposed rule in plain language?”
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:25 pm
I’m more than happy to adopt the rule applied by Mueller, when he wisely removed Clinesmith, Strzok and Page from his investigative team.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 1:56 pmAnd that rule is?
Time123 (f2690f) — 12/17/2019 @ 2:01 pmWow
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Letter-from-President-Trump-final.pdf
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 2:13 pmWell… that’s a lotta snark there.
whembly (51f28e) — 12/17/2019 @ 2:30 pmToo long, didn’t read, literally. On what page does he say “I’ll scratch your eyes out, b!tch”?
nk (dbc370) — 12/17/2019 @ 2:58 pm“And that rule is?”
Time123 (f2690f) — 12/17/2019 @ 2:01 pm
I defer to Mueller, but I would state it as appearance of blatant bias is tantamount to bias.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 12/17/2019 @ 3:01 pm
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 3:19 pmSpencer Hsu
@hsu_spencer
·
BREAKING Surveillance court demands answers from FBI for errors, omissions in Trump campaign investigation, calls FBI’s misleading conduct “antithetical” to how the foreign intelligence surveillance program is supposed to work.
_
Can’t say it’s been a slow day:
ABC News Politics
@ABCPolitics
NEW: Rep. Tulsi Gabbard calls for Pres. Trump’s censure on the eve a full House vote on articles of impeachment.
Needless to say, she’s being inundated w “and Putin smiled” moonbat response.
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 3:24 pmWith his agent-in-place just 20 votes away from being burned, Putin has nothing to smile about.
nk (dbc370) — 12/17/2019 @ 3:27 pmGabbard may turn independent and run third party.
mg (8cbc69) — 12/17/2019 @ 3:36 pmSkeptical of the foreign policy of a good old KGB dictator? That means you’re a super crazy lefty moonbat now.
Harkin’s right. Putin is our friend. We’ve never been in a cold war with Russia. We’ve always been in a cold war with western Europe.
Dustin (cafb36) — 12/17/2019 @ 4:18 pmhttps://www.businessinsider.com/bush-fishing-with-putin-2016-4
BuDuh (f1cbe7) — 12/17/2019 @ 4:51 pm“What is most striking is the spectacle of the letter itself — a president so unhinged as to issue such an harangue; a White House entirely unable to stop him; a party so subservient to him that it would not trigger a search for a new nominee; a right-wing media bubble that will herald Trump for being Trump and excoriate Democrats for driving the president to this point; and a mainstream media not quite able to address a public temper-tantrum (resorting instead to euphemisms such as “scorching,” “searing,” etc.). The letter and the response (or lack thereof) is the perfect encapsulation of the state of American politics — in which one major party has bound itself to the mast of a raging, dangerous narcissist while the other cannot uphold the norms and institutions on which our democracy depends.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/17/so-many-hysterical-men/
nk (dbc370) — 12/17/2019 @ 5:00 pm“Harkin’s right. Putin is our friend. We’ve never been in a cold war with Russia. We’ve always been in a cold war with western Europe.”
And here I thought my real meaning may have been misconstrued.
Plus – you might want to google Soviet Union.
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 5:53 pm“ “What is most striking is the spectacle of the letter itself — a president so unhinged”
That’s the beauty part, it won’t seem striking to anyone who has watched the msm for the past four years report on Trump.
Many will think he’s giving back exactly what he’s been receiving.
Every time you see Trump acting like a petulant child you see the media rushing in asking him to hold their beers.
It would not surprise me at all if this letter ends up being one more instance of the TDS crowd doing Trump’s bidding by drawing attn. to their own derangement.
harkin (15bd84) — 12/17/2019 @ 5:59 pmHarming, shhhh! They get really, really mad when people talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. It’s like Niagara Falls or the Susquehanna Hat Company. Best to let such things be.
PTw (8ce7fb) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:11 pmOr Hardin. Or Harlingen. Or harkin. Whatever works for Nanny Spellchecker.
PTw (8ce7fb) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:12 pmOIW: Whenever Trump acts deranged, his sycophants will just keep saying that it’s the people noticing his derangement who are deranged.
That’s certainly a fail-proof formula for the sycophants, given that Trump will never stop acting deranged.
Radegunda (36778b) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:16 pm#89 — I don’t get mad. I’m amused by the facile, thoughtless absurdity of how the slogan is used to perpetuate the self-comforting fiction that criticism of Trump can never be justified by anything Trump has done.
Radegunda (36778b) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:21 pmAnd when they get mad, they start projecting. It’s really best to not mention it at all.
PTw (8ce7fb) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:46 pmTrumpkins will Trumpkin, Radegunda.
nk (dbc370) — 12/17/2019 @ 6:50 pmSo not a single person on here who pushed the dossier apologized or correctly himself. I’m not surprised.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:19 amI defended the daffodil against both the Steele dossier and the charge of Russian collusion! Here, on this site! Up until two months ago! When he betrayed the Kurds. That’s when I realized what a vile thing he is, without any moral compass whatsoever, capable of any filthy deed, limited only by his cowardice and stupidity.
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:29 amNk,
thanks for explaining what has made your recent change in posting so drastic. I wasn’t referencing you. There are other individuals that post regularly who are conspicuously absent from this thread.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:35 amHave you seen a single update anywhere on the situation with the Kurds in Iraq and Turkey?
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:36 amhttps://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/16/kurdish-commander-mazloum-abdi-trump-prevent-ethnic-cleansing-kurds-turkey/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/16/kurdish-commander-mazloum-abdi-trump-prevent-ethnic-cleansing-kurds-turkey/
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:40 amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-betrayal-of-the-kurds-927545/
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:41 amThank you. The foreign policy article is the more informative of the 2.
Flooding an area with immigrants to change the culture and destroy the existing one. Hmm.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:58 amOn my part, NJRob, I have taken Patterico’s admonition against attacks on other commenters to heart, and that includes attacks on Trump which serve only to yank the chains of his supporters here. That second part is difficult. Sometimes I just have to vent.
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2019 @ 9:06 amActually, NJ, we could have used your Mad Libs skills in the same vein as your response #101 on this gem from Nic in the California Gig Economy discussion from yesterday:
If you have to resort to __________________________________ then your business model is not a success and you deserve to either have to restructure or fail.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/17/2019 @ 11:45 pm
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/18/2019 @ 9:06 amThere was evidence of political bias in, if not opening the investigation, continuing it. It’s just that the Inspector General didn’t take that into account:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-s-intel-officials-probe-ties-between-trump-adviser-and-kremlin-175046002.html
The only reason for saying that this is not evidence of a political motive in opening the investigation, is that, in order for high ranking members of Congress to be briefed, an investigation of some sort clearly must have already been open.
Here we have Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (who might become Majority LEader after the election and work with a Democratic president) practically demanding that a FISA warrant be issued on Carter Page. And this article was shown to the FISA court to help it gain approval.
Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8) — 12/18/2019 @ 9:13 amFair enough. I expect most do, including myself, at times. There are people on here I genuinely do not like because to me it appears they’re moby’s and don’t have general disagreement, but are just trying to stir the pot and create dissension amongst conservatives. They almost always defend leftists claiming that their argument is really reasonable and is being misinterpreted and then always put the conservative POV in extremist light. That sets me off.
I feel extremely bad for the situation the Kurds are going through as they, like Israelis, deserve a place to call home. But I don’t know enough about them or their support in the middle east to defend them as I do Israel. But I also feel the same about our homeland.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 10:43 amNJRob (4d595c) — 12/18/2019 @ 8:36 am
It should be possibe t find something, but I haven’t stumbled across anything. Most probably, the lines have stabilized but – let’s see wat’s happening:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/18/turkey-pitches-plan-settle-1-million-refugees-northern-syria-erdogan-kurds/
https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-frustrated-world-support-invasion-syria-1478069
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/777183277/syrian-kurdish-refugees-say-kurdish-forces-tried-to-prevent-them-from-fleeing-to
…”Our houses were on the Turkish border. When Turkey attacked, the [Kurdish fighters] made our homes the front line for their operation. The Turkish bullets were coming toward us, and the [Kurdish] bullets were coming toward us,” she says.
She says they fled after Kurdish forces began storing weapons in their home. But her son-in-law was forced to stay behind. Her neighbors were killed in the fighting. Her other daughter and family stayed back, protecting their home during the day and then leaving the city every night, when the fighting starts.
It took a week to reach the border, where Jalal al-Din and her daughter and grandchildren hid from Kurdish security forces for four days. She says they had no water, food or phones. Finally, they were able to hire smugglers — who demanded $300 per person — to get around Kurdish forces who wanted the men to stay and fight..
…Evading Kurdish fighters was so difficult, they almost gave up…
…Other refugees also accuse the Kurdish forces under the YPG militia of coercing men into staying behind or preventing Kurds from leaving. Kurdish commanders did not respond to NPR’s questions about whether they are blocking people from leaving.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 12/19/2019 @ 3:03 pm