Patterico's Pontifications

12/12/2019

Oh Dear, the Niece Now Wants to be a Kingmaker in the U.K. [Updated]

Filed under: General — JVW @ 12:06 pm



[guest post by JVW]

[UPDATE II, 7:47 pm Pacific time] – Jeremy Corbyn is out as Labour Party Leader, he announced moments ago. Good riddance.

[UPDATE, 3:30 pm Pacific time]The BBC reports that exit polls look good for a Conservative majority.

—- original post —-

As voters across the United Kingdom head to the polling places today to vote for a new government — a vote which will have important consequences for Brexit, relations with the U.S., and the rise of both nationalist and socialist parties worldwide — our delightfully batty niece decided to interject her callow self into another nation’s domestic matters:

Though she only encourages UK voters to “vote” without expressing any preference for candidates, the video she attaches, which is a retweet from the official account of the rancid Jeremy Corbyn, leaves no doubt as to how she hopes the vote will go. And to the degree that she has any followers in the U.K., I sincerely doubt that they hold much affection for the Tories.

Hopefully by tonight we will be receiving word of a strong Conservative showing and a majority government led by Boris Johnson, and then the important work of freeing Britain from the tyranny of the EU can continue.

– JVW

87 Responses to “Oh Dear, the Niece Now Wants to be a Kingmaker in the U.K. [Updated]”

  1. According to the BBC, the results should be completed and perhaps announced by 10:00 pm Pacific Time later tonight (6:00 am Greenwich Mean Time tomorrow morning).

    JVW (54fd0b)

  2. Freedom or slavery. The choice is yours UK.

    NJRob (bd55c4)

  3. She may be adorable, but the people she supports in the UK are not. I respect AOC — she seems politically smart, with an understanding on how she can use hawt to promote her point of view, and she won her seat through good old fashioned shoeleather. And her social media account conveys her message effectively.

    The problem is that message. Green socialist garbage, being compressed into a vegan version of solyent green.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  4. She got her economics degree by reading Scrooge McDuck comics. She sees money bins.

    bud (b48f3e)

  5. I am not disturbed by this kind of foreign interference in elections.

    Sammy Finkelman (313b9a)

  6. “Tyrrany of the EU?” ‘United States of Europe be damned?!?!’ And Churchill wept.

    The Brits have been doing this Shakespearian act for centuries:

    “European: to be, or not to be. That is the question.”

    Audiences wax and wane through the decades but the curtain came down on the Empire long ago. In the mid-70’s, they opted in. 45 years later, they want an out. It’s nearly 2020; if they do leave, by 2050 w/fresh generations grown, they’ll want back in– not by choice, but necessity.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. AOC and greta thunberg are the future you anti trumpers are the past. AOC/sanders are liberal populists and trump is a conservative populist. You are dinosaurs waiting for the meteor to hit you.

    asset (929100)

  8. Oh Dear, the Niece Now Wants to be a Kingmaker in the U.K.

    Queenmaker, you sexist running-dog of the patriarchy!

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. ” the rancid Jeremy Corbyn”

    Should have spent more time in the fridge.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  10. Aoc is just another angry climate creature

    mg (b29549)

  11. Queenmaker, you sexist running-dog of the patriarchy!

    I don’t think the monarch is on the ballot today, unless you are making a salacious allusion to an aspect of Jeremy Corbyn’s private life that is largely unknown to the general public.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  12. Freedom is slavery.

    England’s chickens have come home to roost. The great-grandson of an Ottoman Aga (through a direct male line of descent) now rules, and may continue to rule, the country which destroyed the Ottoman Empire. Sic transit gloria mundi.

    nk (dbc370)

  13. “Tyrrany of the EU?” ‘United States of Europe be damned?!?!’ And Churchill wept.

    Yeah, Sir Winnie would be completely copacetic with an EU whose agenda is driven by the personal ambitions of Emmanuel Macron and the historical national guilt of Angela Merkel.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  14. England’s chickens have come home to roost. The great-grandson of an Ottoman Aga (through a direct male line of descent) now rules, and may continue to rule, the country which destroyed the Ottoman Empire.

    And the royal family is German…

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. Yeah, Sir Winnie would be completely copacetic with an EU whose agenda is driven by the personal ambitions of Emmanuel Macron and the historical national guilt of Angela Merkel.

    As European leaders go, Macron and Merkel aren’t so bad.

    I confess that I don’t have a deep understanding of the details of the UK/EU relationship. I think there are reasonable arguments for some kind of integration of the countries of Europe. The circumstances are obviously different, but the American colonies did well to unite.

    Since the architects of the EU incorporated a mechanism for states to withdraw, it’s certainly appropriate for the UK to do so if its people feel membership isn’t serving their interests.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. “As European leaders go, Macron and Merkel aren’t so bad.”

    Germany disagrees so much she had to admit it herself:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-merkel-immigration/merkel-says-german-multiculturalism-has-failed-idUSTRE69F1K320101016

    harkin (15bd84)

  17. Germany disagrees so much she had to admit it herself

    Right, that’s why she’s been elected four times, and will become the second longest-serving post-war Chancellor around New Year’s.

    Anyway, I meant “not so bad” from the point of view of Britain (and the United States).

    Macron and Merkel are both pragmatic technocrats rather than ideologues. Compared their recent predecessors they are very quite well disposed to the United States, or were until Trump started insulting them and their countries.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. [UPDATE]The BBC reports that exit polls look good for a Conservative majority.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  19. The forecast is for the Conservatives to win 368 seats to Labour’s 191, with the Liberal Democrats winning 13, the Scottish National Party 55, and Brexit Party zero. It would be Labour’s worst showing since 1935 and could conceivably bring to a merciful close Mr. Corbyn’s party leadership. I hope our endearingly earnest but delusional niece is not blamed for the result, should it go this way.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  20. @13. Meh. Posted several times that back in the Heath/Wilson days when they were debating Common Market entry (aka the EU) -[was living there at the time and suffered through the histrionics first hand; gawd awful, too]- European geopolitics was significantly different. They really believed they’d end up running it– North Sea gas was flourishing, they had Empire experience and all that, wot?! But events brought unexpected change very fast; the Iron Curtain melted away, the Eastern bloc broke free, the Berlin Wall came down, the CCCP collapsed and to the horror of ol’pub-crawling-Battle-of-Britain-pensioners, Germany reunified. They never expected to end up taking dictums from Brussels that literally was changed day to day life on Kensington High Street. 1066 and all that; ‘island nation’ and so forth. So the pendulum began to swing back toward nationalism. It really is a multi-century identity thing w/them; that ‘to be or not to be– European’ thing. But w/t Empire gone, the geography alone works against going it independent in the 21st century.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. That would be a loss of 71 for Labor and a gain of 50 for the Tories and 20 for the SNP.

    Scexit may be on the agenda after Brexit…

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. Scexit may be on the agenda after Brexit…

    The Tories might be glad to see them go, which could be a win/win for both Scotland and what’s left of Great Britain. The Conservative majority would increase on most votes, and Britain would no longer have to subsidize the Scottish social welfare state when oil revenues drop. For continuity’s sake Britain can immediately sign a free trade agreement with Scotland in order to ensure that they continue to get whisky and wool, which would also be in Scotland’s interest too. Some border issues would have to be figured out, but given that Great Britain already has to do that with Ireland anyway, they might as well rope Scotland into the negotiations too. And perhaps this will be the best chance yet for a united Ireland.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  23. @15. See #20. They had experience w/t immigration issues from commonwealth/Empire days but as Nigel Farage crowed the other day on CNN, ‘We [Britain] are becoming merely a province of the United States of Europe.’ So piss on Winnie’s dream, eh Nigel?! It’s as much emotion and tradition as it is the economics of the times.

    They’ve never been able to come to grips w/being both an independent nation [a la the Empire days] yet still part of Europe’s greater whole [the geography]. Americans don’t think twice about daily trade w/Mexico and Canada or sharing infrastructure ops on highways, pipelines, phone, rail an so on.

    It’s different w/them- Wellington at Waterloo; Nelson at Trafalgar; Agincourt; Spanish Armada; ‘island nation’ stuff: alone against “the Nawzees” and so forth. Like driving on the other side of the road.

    It’s as peculiar to Americans as America’s obsession with cowboys and guns are to them. Some decades, they can be so infuriatingly British.

    “I hate the British! You are defeated but you have no shame. You are stubborn but you have no pride. You endure but you have no courage. I hate the British!” – Colonel Saito [Sessue Hayakawa] ‘Bridge on the River Kwai’ 1957

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. The Tories might be glad to see them go, which could be a win/win for both Scotland and what’s left of Great Britain.

    Call me a sentimentalist, but I’ve believed that governments long-established should not be abandoned for light and transient causes…

    Dave (050ab0)

  25. And how is Mr. Hilter doing in the Minehead Bye-Election?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. As it appears England voted to remain English, I hope they respect the will of Scotland and let them go. Reclaim your nation.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  27. CSPAN2 has the BBC feed. Corbyn’s buggered it up. He’s done.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Corbyn was their Hillary; Britain has been firmly Trumped.

    And Putin winked…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. The British Labour Party has been the British Communist Party by a more palatable name since the 1960s, following its infiltration by, and its adoption of, the trade unions and other elements of the Broad Left, many acting under direct orders from the Kremlin which thought that Communism had a better chance in Great Britain flying a false flag rather than flying its own.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. You might also find that the “special relationship” between Boris Johnson and the cretinous corrupt criminal traitor Trump is largely illusory — a combination of Johnson’s enemies looking to dirty him up in the UK and Rodentia Rectalis Trumpensis looking to make their boyfriend look good by association here.

    nk (dbc370)

  31. “And Putin winked”

    Boy that didn’t take long.


    Britain needs its own Mueller report on Russian ‘interference’
    The Guardian tonight.

    Lololololol

    harkin (15bd84)

  32. Britain Elects
    @britainelects
    · 15m
    BREAKING: Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn is to resign and will not lead the party into a future general election.

    _

    harkin (15bd84)

  33. [UPDATE II] – Jeremy Corbyn is out as Labour Party Leader, he announced moments ago. Good riddance.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  34. Leaders of the DUP and the LDP both lost their seats.

    Dave (1bb933)

  35. Nicola Sturgeon is on SkyTV right now saying Scotland must be independent.

    Dave (1bb933)

  36. @33. Actually, at least at his televised Islington presser on CSPAN2/BBC where he won his MP seat again, he stated he wouldn’t be leading the party in future elections but is staying on for the ‘period of reflection.’ Whatever that means.

    Bottom line- wave the Union Jack: the pendulum has swung hard right to nationalism which, for an island nation that built then lost an empire with a navy on the now defunct policy of colonialism , puts them back on the treadmill to oblivion in the age of 21st century globalism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. Break up the UK?!?!

    And Putin orgasmed…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. then the important work of freeing Britain from the tyranny of the EU can continue

    May I point out that a very large numbers of English think that “EU tyranny” has no relationship to reality, that it’s basically false propoganda by the Right.

    In fact, Brexit will place Britain in a position to be forced to accept whatever the EU forces on it with (since it is no longer a member) no voice on the matter. Brecit actually enhances whatever strongarming the EU dirs.

    Kishnevi (91d450)

  39. Well, at least you’re not going full Livingston:

    Mirror Politics
    @MirrorPolitics

    Ken Livingstone says it’s ‘the end’ for Jeremy Corbyn and blames ‘Jewish vote’
    _

    harkin (15bd84)

  40. Break up the UK?!?!

    And Putin orgasmed…

    A Labour government would have done nothing to thwart Putin’s ambitions in Eastern/Central Europe or the Middle East. Corbyn sees the British military as a jobs program, so even though he pledged to continue with the UK’s two percent of GDP defense spending NATO obligation he made it perfectly clear that he didn’t want British troops engaging in combat anywhere in the world or even acting as a real deterrent on a tyrant’s ambitions. I doubt that Putin is sitting in the Kremlin tonight thinking that the British election was a great outcome for him and his cronies.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  41. @39. Yep. “Island nation.” Go it alone; “To be; or not to be– European…” It’s a foolish move given the geography alone in well into an era of 21st century globalism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. In fact, Brexit will place Britain in a position to be forced to accept whatever the EU forces on it with (since it is no longer a member) no voice on the matter. Brecit actually enhances whatever strongarming the EU dirs.

    Respectfully disagree, Kishnevi. I can’t imagine Europe’s financial center moving to Brussels or Brest or Berlin, even though I do believe in the long-run activity will naturally gravitate away from cities like New York and London. And I think that the EU will discover they need Great Britain every bit as much as they want to believe that Great Britain needs it. Yeah, people like J.K. Rowling will complain that she now has to go through the non-EU citizen passport line on the way to her ski chalet in St. Anton am Alberg, but I think the Remain crowd will soon come to realize that very little has changed in their daily lives.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  43. @41. “Blunt” truth: cracks in anything UK always make Russians squeal with delight.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. JVW, a lot will change because of UK/EU trade relations. If the British want access to EU markets they will have to comply with EU regulations, but with no ability to influence those regulations because they will have no vote.

    Kishnevi (91d450)

  45. @43. Been there; saw that, JVW– back in the day when they were out of it and wanted in the “EU.” Still have Super 8 moves of ‘Buy British’ parades through London w/manufacturers and stores desperately trying to coerce the citizenry to stop patronizing Common Market goods and services. Doesn’t take much to move money around the globe today, either; a cubicle in Switzerland or floor of offices in Brussels or Berlin.

    The Remainers will rediscover how costs soar– and how lousy British beef tastes.

    To leave is a stupid move.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. @45.Yep. Yep. Yep. Bingo. Bingo. Bingo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. If only they’d remain with the political entity that will strong arm and cripple them if their own people are granted more of a say in their own lives.

    How could Remain ever be seen in a negative light?

    harkin (15bd84)

  48. Britain has a very different economic and political reality than the US does and looking at their issues by our standards isn’t very useful. If they hard Brexit it’s likely to be very difficult for them because their biggest trading partners are on the continent, the EU wouldn’t have a ton of motivation to make it easy for them, and the EU makes it viable (and possibly desirable) for both Scotland and Norther Ireland to vote for their own independence, since they could theoretically end up with more independence with less economic strains as part of the EU than if they stayed as part of the UK.

    Nic (896fdf)

  49. 48
    Harkin, let me clear about this. The English people whom I know say the idea that the UK has been the victim of Brussels based bureaucracy was a myth propagated by the “Brexit” element…that it’s a totally false narrative.

    Kishnevi (91d450)

  50. Harkin, let me clear about this. The English people whom I know say the idea that the UK has been the victim of Brussels based bureaucracy was a myth propagated by the “Brexit” element…that it’s a totally false narrative.

    Including the 15% minimum VAT? That the EU requires every country to impose? On their people? Is that a false narrative? Hint: It’s not, it’s real.

    I’m no fan of the Frangi, and that includes the British as well as the French and Germans. But the false narrative is that Brexit is nationalism. I think that it’s mercantilism. I think that the Brexiters, the Inner Party not the proles, think that they’ll do better trading with the Commonwealth and the rest of the world without being tied to the EU. And if Volkswagen and BMW cannot sell cars to the British police anymore, Ford will be more than happy to.

    nk (dbc370)

  51. @49. Yep. Yep. Yep. Bingo, bingo, bingo, Nic. FWIW, they’re two or three generations from the time when they were hungry to get into the Common Market [aka the EU] — and in conservative Heath’s time back then it was smaller and not as economically powerful as today. It’s just difficult to explain to state-side observers how interconnected everything is now. Cracks in the United Kingdom are a wet dream for Putin, too.

    Going it ‘alone’ is Charge-of-the-Light-Brigade-foolish in the out years. The geography alone speaks volumes. Their Empire is gone; they import much, manufacture little to compete globally w/Europe or even imports from outside the EU traders. If they leave in 2020 they’ll be wanting back in by 2040–or before.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. @52. No, nk. It is nationalism. Losing the Empire still stings; remember sterling was the world’s reserve currency until 1945 when the $ replaced it. It’s the ‘island nation’ thing. They’re a proud people. Traditions are centuries old, deeply rooted and reaffirmed daily with every changing of the guard. Just ‘being British’ is one of the strongest and lasting impressions we brought home from living there amongst them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. @53 I think a lot of Americans don’t realize how small many European countries are. Last year I took the train from Edinburgh to London and it took less time that it takes me to drive from Reno to San Francisco. It’s hard to go it alone when you are that size.

    Nic (896fdf)

  54. @55. Yep. Agree. Especially in today’s global. I remember the chill -and quiet London streets back in ’68- the morning we awoke and learned Soviet tanks had rolled into Prague. We grabbed a map and realized they weren’t 3,500 miles away– but about 400– roughly the distance between New York and Pittsburgh.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. ^today’s global economy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. Speaking reality about the U.K. election can get you forced to retract and grovel. No way the Dems want this opinion to get any traction.

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes

    One thing you can’t say about the Corbyn campaign was that he was ‘Tory Lite’ or too new-liberal, or too establishment. He ran unabashedly from the left in a way many leftists want Democrats to run here in the USA.
    __ _

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes

    Yeah that was a bad take. Deleted it. I’m sad and frustrated. Just basically wish everyone had a little more humility about what “works” and what “people want.”
    __ _

    Ryan McCormick
    @imryanmccormick
    .
    Replying to
    @chrislhayes
    It was a good take & exactly what the left needs to consider to start winning again. You just got shamed off the truth, much in the same way the left’s platform has slid further left & you’re an abject monster if you dare question whether the people of the US want that.
    __ _

    KMG365
    @starbucksgirl51
    ·
    Just remember, what “people want” isn’t always going to work.

    Burning it all down to start from scratch? BAD idea.

    Would be good for people to remember that.
    __ _

    PedroYokes
    @pyochum81
    ·
    Don’t back down like this man. I know the DSA/Jacobin kids are your friends but you said nothing wrong, they just didn’t want to hear it.
    __ _

    Lisa Marie Akin🌹🔥✌💖
    @LissaMarie630
    ·
    Heel Chris. Good boy

    _

    harkin (15bd84)

  57. We grabbed a map and realized they weren’t 3,500 miles away– but about 400– roughly the distance between New York and Pittsburgh.

    It’s 642 miles (by air) between London and Prague.

    Dave (1bb933)

  58. @59. “Roughly.” Again, you miss the point, child.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. @59 Still too close.

    We were stationed in Europe a few years before the Wall fell (we were transferred back to the States shortly after). Less than a day’s drive to the East-German border. Near, near, near. Things were pre-tt-yy tense for a hot minute there.

    Nic (896fdf)

  60. Including the 15% minimum VAT? That the EU requires every country to impose? On their people? Is that a false narrative? Hint: It’s not, it’s real.

    Britain had a VAT-like tax before joining the EC, and it was 33%, not 15%.

    Granted, they accepted some limitation on their freedom to control it, as a condition of joining, but the VAT money collected stays in the UK as revenue for Her Majesty’s Exchequer.

    Death, taxes, etc.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. @61. Right. ‘Dave’ misses the point. You really become aware of those time/distance things in those tense times nd ref to familiar ones you ayhave travelled from back home. Recall a trip one time we made- had breakfast, walked out the front door of our flat, took a 73 bus to the Knightsbridge tube station; then to the train station for the ride to Dover to the ferry to Calais [pre-Chunnel days] to a train to a hotel and early dinner in Paris in just few hours and being amazed at how totally different the culture and language evolved– literally “a few miles” away from Britain-totally different for centuries. So the Churchill chatter of a ‘United States of Europe’ really seemed a challenge at street level but the Common Market [EU] was making a strong effort at pulling these separate nations together at various levels. Leaving it is foolish.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. @62. The Brits gas tax is high, too– hence, we didn’t own a car there but that was compensated by an excellent mass transit system which people are encouraged to use and connects w/t Continent. Helped fund the NHS. It’s a mindset that works in America in cosmopolitan areas but not very well in flyover states given the size of the U.S. and the culture. OTOH train service was very good in the then Soviet Union when we travelled through there. The ride from then Leningrad to Moscow was impressive and long– but comfortable.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. @63 We made a similar trip or two in the opposite direction. Also pre-chunnel. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  64. @64 A good long time to get to know your very own personal KGB escort. My mom went once on a “officer’s wives do diplomacy” group trip thing and she said that it was amazing how very recognizable everyone loitering in their general vicinity all the time got to be.

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. @65. Right- and building the Chunnel only added to that ‘EU’-styled push at connecting Britain closer to the European continent. They’d talked about it and argued over it for decades and finally did it– so now do Brexiters plan to plug it up?! 😉 Anything that pulls those little nations closer together is a good thing given their histories. Cutting ties w/t EU is a step in the wrong direction.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. The SNP ended up doing a couple seats worse than the exit polls predicted, but the upset of the DUP leader means that for the first time ever, there will be more Irish nationalist MPs from Northern Ireland than Unionists.

    (Sinn Fein MPs don’t actually take their seats at Westminster, but it’s a symbolic watershed of sorts…)

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. @66.Could tell you a great story about getting into the U.S. Embassy in Moscow in the Soviet days and up to the bar at the USMC barracks on top of it but it’s long. Long story short: we were turned away at first at the desk then staff kids appeared and challenged us to play touch football in the embassy courtyard. When they realized we knew how to play and were really Americans, they took us up to the Marine bar and we pigged out w/the Marines on potato chips and Coca-Cola in downtown Moscow. They told us all bout the restrictions and paperwork they had to go through just to travel a few miles across the city.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. #notmypm trending…….

    Call for a Mueller-type collusion investigation.

    They’re all working off the same script now.

    __ _


    Andrew Doyle
    @andrewdoyle_com
    If you smear the working class & elderly as racist & stupid, you’re a bigot.

    If you see fascism everywhere in one of the most tolerant countries, you’re a fantasist.

    If you have contempt for democracy, you’re an elitist.

    Above all, you’re the reason the left continues to lose.
    _

    harkin (15bd84)

  69. Harkin, let me clear about this. The English people whom I know say the idea that the UK has been the victim of Brussels based bureaucracy was a myth propagated by the “Brexit” element…that it’s a totally false narrative.

    Are these the same people who told you that you could see the Nassau lighthouse from Ft. Lauderdale beach, even in daylight?

    PTw (894877)

  70. Can anyone explain how, specifically, Johnson’s deal (which he claims is “oven-ready” and will be voted on in a matter of weeks) differs or improves upon May’s, which Johnson voted against two times out of three?

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. Also note the GBP is up against EUR and USD, presumably other, currencies. Funny how that is. Even the Dow was up this morning, and then something happened at 10 AM to kill that rally. Wonder what caused that? Putin smiling, perhaps?

    PTw (894877)

  72. Funny how that is.

    Why is it funny?

    Markets generally dislike uncertainty. The election eliminated a great deal of it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  73. Assad’s prom date is making friends everywhere!

    Tulsi Gabbard makes fans of Trump supporters in New Hampshire

    She’s “undecided” on impeaching Trump (wink, wink).

    Dave (1bb933)

  74. @72. It essentially doesn’t. But Britvoters grew weary of the 3 years of Brexit deadlock and along with rejecting Corbyn as a motivator, normally Labour voters pinched their snouts and went conservative and w/Johnson. It’s Trump over Hillary redux.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. Who does Tulsi lose from the Dem side of the ledger – either by not showing up, blanking the ballot, or going from their preferred D to Trump – if she’s the nominee? That’s the real question.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  76. No, its Trump versus Sanders 2016 if Sander’s supporters wish-casted away the superdelegates, not unlike the wishcast of changing out Kerry for Dean in 2004.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  77. Are these the same people who told you that you could see the Nassau lighthouse from Ft. Lauderdale beach, even in daylight?

    No, they are normal English people living and working in England, and who therefore know a good deal more aboit living in the EU than anyone here.

    Kishnevi (3734a9)

  78. Markets generally dislike uncertainty. The election eliminated a great deal of it.

    Well that’s the thing, innit? Remain is, by definition, the status quo. By definition, means to stay in one place. Brexit, well part of the concern is what form it will take. And yet the more uncertain path will now be taken. So for an uncertain path to create positive action in the markets, well that uncertainty would need to have much more potential upside than downside because it carries uncertainty with it. Yet the smart people have assured us that Brexit will be an absolute disaster for the UK. I mean, they’re rioting in the streets over there right now, ain’t they? And yet the GBP is up. And the US stock market was up, as I said, until 10 AM when some people must have done some things. Funny how all that is.

    PTw (894877)

  79. No, they are normal English people living and working in England, and who therefore know a good deal more aboit living in the EU than anyone here.

    And if I told you that UK people that I know, who know a good deal more about living in the EU than anyone here, are Brexiteers, I would be lying wouldn’t I? Or even if I pointed you to a blog, or even a couple of blogs, frequented by UK people who favor Brexit, they’d be…how do you say it…abnormal people, yes? Kinda like when I lived in Ft. Lauderdale and never saw the Nassau lighthouse in daylight, nor did any of the people in Ft. Lauderdale that I know. We simply inhabit different universes. What color is the sky in yours?

    PTw (894877)

  80. Remain wasn’t on the ballot yesterday. The uncertainty was between a relatively swift exit driven by a strong majority government, or continued flailing in an environment where a handful of backbenchers could hold the process hostage.

    Dave (050ab0)

  81. And if I told you that UK people that I know, who know a good deal more about living in the EU than anyone here, are Brexiteers, I would be lying wouldn’t I? Or even if I pointed you to a blog, or even a couple of blogs, frequented by UK people who favor Brexit, they’d be…how do you say it…abnormal people, yes?

    No, you simply know a different group of people, whom the people I know would say are seriously and fundamentally wrong (and no doubt the reverse is true). But the anti Brexit people I know are people whi are not very partisan, and show intelligence and rationality in all other areas.

    Whereas the pro Brexit people I have encountered on the Net are remarkably similar in their views to the more rabid Trump supporters in the US who support Brexit for much the same reason that Trump supporters support him; hostility to things outside their country, a feeling of powerlessness in the face of bureaucratic government, and a delusion that their preferred solution will change that despite every fact pointing to the reverse outcome.

    Kishnevi (3734a9)

  82. and no doubt the reverse is true

    I guess there’s not much use in discussing this is there? We can agree that other people are stupid, yes? It would be nice if we could agree on at least something. You have a nice weekend. Oh, we can agree on that too.

    PTw (894877)

  83. Babylon Bee (satire):

    Dems Vow To Learn From Labour Party’s Mistake Of Not Going Far Enough Left

    featuring The Niece.

    “It’s clear that Labour lost because they weren’t radical enough,” said Rep. Ocasio-Cortez, who had seemingly endorsed Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party. “We’re not going to repeat their mistake. We need to appeal to the common American by pushing policies that would be at home in Soviet Russia.”

    Rep. Rashida Tlaib said in a statement, “People didn’t turn up to the polls across the pond because Corbyn and his brave freedom fighters were too conservative. Labour really should have gone off the deep end, like we’re doing with the Democratic Party.”

    “Also, they could have used a little more anti-semitism.”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  84. In a poll a while back, 10% of Britons could not name the Prime Minister.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  85. I watched about four hours of SkyTV election coverage, with entertaining and informative “color commentator” John Bercow, the just-retired Speaker of the House of Commons.

    Here’s what I gleaned:

    1) Brexit was the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Once most of the results were in, they showed a striking graphic of the Conservative gain in each constituency vs. %Leave vote in the 2016 referendum. It was stark. In previously solid Labor working class constituencies that voted Leave, the Tories cleaned up. They showed a similar correlation of an economic “misery index” with the previous election, and it showed that in this election, peoples’ votes seemed to have realigned from economic class to Brexit. The Tories also gained heavily in constituencies with lower college education levels that have been Labor strongholds in the past. This page has some, but not all, of the analysis, including graphs, that they showed on election night.

    2) Labor’s ambivalent Brexit stance was a disaster waiting to happen. To their white-collar supporters who voted Remain, they looked like Leavers, and to the blue-collar Leavers they looked like Remainers.

    3) Corbyn’s personal negatives were an important contributing factor.

    4) Their big-spending manifesto was perceived as unrealistic, but wasn’t much different from the previous election where they did much better.

    5) Johnson waged an astute campaign focused on one issue and one slogan: “Get Brexit done”. Labor had no message of comparable clarity.

    Dave (1bb933)


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