Patterico's Pontifications

11/9/2019

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:53 am



[guest post by Dana]

Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item : Megyn Kelly interviews CBS staffer Ashley Bianco, who was fired after being accused of being the leaker of ABC News anchor Amy Robach’s “hot mic” clip . In the clip, Robach accuses the network of refusing to air an interview she did with one of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims three years ago. While Bianco admits to having accessed the tape and clipping it when she worked at ABC, she is adamant that she did not leak it. Meanwhile, Project Veritas has published a letter by an “ABC insider” who claims that they are leaker.

Former CBS producer Ashley Bianco told Megyn Kelly she did not leak a video of an ABC reporter complaining on a hot mic that she knew about sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein years before his apparent suicide inside the Metropolitan Correctional Facility in August, but ABC brass wouldn’t listen.

Bianco, who moved to CBS in November, worked for ABC when the Aug. 19 tape was recorded. She was let go by CBS after less than a week with the network. ABC reportedly called its competitor to say Bianco was a suspect…The tape somehow wound up in the hands of the investigative group Project Veritas, whom Bianco said she’d never heard of until the scandal broke.

Second news item: Nikki Haley doesn’t think President Trump will be impeached:

…Haley said, “You’re going to impeach a president for asking for a favor that didn’t happen and giving money and it wasn’t withheld? I don’t know what you would impeach him on.”

She went on to call it “the death penalty for a public official,” saying, “There’s nothing in that transcript that warrants the death penalty for the president”

Norah O’Donnell said, “To be clear, it was not a complete transcript. There are still things that are missing from it, and in it he does say, ‘I would like you to do us a favor, though.’”

“The Ukrainians never did the investigation, and the president released the funds,” Haley said. “I mean, when you look at those, there’s just nothing impeachable there. And more than that, I think the biggest thing that bothers me is the American people should decide this. Why do we have a bunch of people in Congress making this decision?”

Third news item: Following up on Elizabeth Warren’s magical health plan, she clarifies that her plan will include everybody, regardless of immigration status. Further, she seems to believe that if you are not “Black trans and cis women, gender-nonconforming, and nonbinary,” then you are not the backbone of our democracy. Too bad, so sad, losers:

Fourth news item: President Trump’s “spiritual adviser” is now officially a member of the White House staff:

It was “Power Night” at the City of Destiny church on Sunday and Pastor Paula White was urging her congregation to pony up.

“I want you to hear from God. God already spoke to me what I’m going to write out. You’re going to write your checks to Paula White Ministries,” White preached. “If God tells you to give $12.99, do it. Whatever the Holy Spirit speaks to you. If you need to give by credit card, do so.”
White regularly urges those in her pews to donate to her ministry, promising that God will bless them with wealth and “visions” in return. She sometimes warns her followers that their “dream will die” if they don’t.

This time, the televangelist was doing it as a newly minted White House official.

Two peas in a pod:

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

318 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. A late good morning.

    Dana (cb74ca)

  2. “Why do we have a bunch of people in Congress making this decision?”

    Just a guess: Because the American people elect a bunch of people to Congress in the expectation that they will make decisions that they are constitutionally authorized to make — which includes serving as a check on the president.

    Radegunda (441583)

  3. Good afternoon.

    I think Ciaramella scrubbing his social media like another whistleblower did before slandering Justice Kavanaugh is also newsworthy.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  4. I actually feel a little sorry for people who fall for the “If you don’t make me rich, God won’t like you” scam.
    But I can’t excuse the “serious thinkers” and “Christian leaders” who refuse to acknowledge what Trump’s affinity for Paula White’s brand of “spirituality” says about him (as though we didn’t already know it).

    Radegunda (441583)

  5. I miss Beldar.

    In other news, I should be arriving back at the crib right about now, but because my short flight to Melbourne was 2.5 hours late yesterday, I couldn’t make the connection to LA and got stuck here in Oz for another day. Got up at 3:45 am for a 6 o’clock flight that will hopefully leave on time and get me home in about 24 hours…

    Dave (8185ba)

  6. Prediction: Our next President will be worse than Trump.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  7. I don’t miss Beldar in the least. A pompous ass and a bully.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  8. Sad to see Nikki Haley follow the other gutless lemmings gerbils into ignominy, but what’s done is done.

    Dave (6c8e68)

  9. I take back every bad thing I ever said about Obama.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. Maybe you can find him on a dating site, Dave.

    mg (8cbc69)

  11. Self before Party, eh, Dave?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  12. Kevin M (19357e) — 11/9/2019 @ 10:24 am

    I don’t think that was called for.

    Beldar was not very kind or fair to me (IMO) in our first encounter, but he’s a smart, honest guy and his heart is in the right place despite sometimes being less than charitable to those he disagrees with. You and I and many others here are guilty of the same when our patience is tested.

    Dave (274db3)

  13. I miss Willie Mays playing baseball.

    mg (8cbc69)

  14. But I can’t excuse the “serious thinkers” and “Christian leaders” who refuse to acknowledge what Trump’s affinity for Paula White’s brand of “spirituality” says about him (as though we didn’t already know it).

    *hands on hips, Aretha Franklin style*

    Don’t you blaspheme in here!

    Donald Trump is the Chosen One, the King of Israel.

    He reads the Bible more than anybody and he eats his little cracker when he goes to church too.

    Dave (681cdb)

  15. There’s that phrase about women marrying men like their fathers, but it’s actually true for Paul Manafort’s daughter:

    Paul Manafort’s former son-in-law was sentenced to more than nine years in prison Friday for a wide-ranging series of fraud schemes the court said bilked victims out of more than $6 million.
    As U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. imposed the sentence of nine years and two months on Jeffrey Yohai, the judge blasted the would-be real estate developer as a serial scammer whose “horrific” crimes posed a significant threat to the public, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Los Angeles said.

    Paul Montagu (46ccab)

  16. #5 – Missed connections on international flights are even worse at the beginning of a trip, especially when the airline can’t figure out what to do with your checked baggage. Aer Lingus didn’t, so I had to buy a new toothbrush in Edinburgh. KLM did, and my joy in seeing that bag on the carousel mitigated the bother and extra expense of missing the last train to where I intended to go that day.

    Radegunda (441583)

  17. “If God tells you to give $12.99, do it. Whatever the Holy Spirit speaks to you. If you need to give by credit card, do so.”

    Way back in the early 70s, there was a pair of comedians who did a radio show with various characters. They were known as Hudson & Landry, and were hysterically funny at the time. One show they did was called Friar Schuck, and the quote above reminded me of that show. At one point, Friar Schuck is telling his audience that The Almighty will handle their problems if they just send $100 (and this is back when $100 was considered a lot of money).

    Anyway, here’s the show….

    Friar Schuck

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  18. It’s times like this that I am really glad to belong to a religion that doesn’t allow chicks to be pastors.

    (Kidding! Kidding!)

    JVW (54fd0b)

  19. Good luck with your travels, Dave.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  20. When ABC says jump cbs asks how high!

    asset (ebda6b)

  21. “I think Ciaramella scrubbing his social media like another whistleblower did before slandering Justice Kavanaugh is also newsworthy.”

    Agree.
    __

    Also:

    David Burge
    @iowahawkblog

    let’s recap, shall we?

    1 ABC spikes story on Epstein
    2 ABC goes apes**t when video leaks of reporter griping about it
    3 ABC hunts down suspected video leaker, now at CBS
    4 CBS fires “leaker”
    5 she wasn’t the leaker
    6 media, everywhere: *crickets*
    __

    David Burge
    @iowahawkblog
    ·
    ABC is the equivalent of a sausage company trying to destroy an ex-employee for leaking video of them dumping 1 ton of rat feces in their sausage, because it violates the sacred code of Sausage Ethics
    __ _

    Kevin Myers
    @MyersKevinA
    ·
    So to re-cap ABC and CBS management, given the choice, protect a pedophile over their own employees. Something to think about ABC and CBS staffers.
    __ _

    Lost Viking
    @LostViking6
    .
    Just for fun, let’s pause and just imagine how the MSM would be responding if Fox had done something like this.

    _

    harkin (337580)

  22. House GOP asks for Hunter Biden and whistleblower to testify in impeachment probe

    House Republicans asked for their own impeachment witnesses on Saturday, sending Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) a list that includes former vice president Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden and the anonymous whistleblower who filed the initial complaint against President Trump. ….

    Republicans want to publicly question witnesses who would divert the conversation away from questions about Trump’s behavior to allegations only tangentially related to the case, such as unfounded claims that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election and that the Bidens acted nefariously in their dealings with Ukraine.

    Schiff said in a statement that the committee would evaluate the Republicans’ requests.

    “This inquiry is not, and will not serve, however, as a vehicle to undertake the same sham investigations into the Bidens or 2016 that the President pressed Ukraine to conduct for his personal political benefit, or to facilitate the President’s effort to threaten, intimidate, and retaliate against the whistleblower who courageously raised the initial alarm,” Schiff said. …..

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  23. #21 — I’ve been skeptical of the MSM and its ideological tilt for many years. But recognizing the faults of ABC, CBS, CNN, NYT et al. doesn’t mean that Donald Trump or his enablers are trustworthy.

    It’s jaw-dropping to see ardent Trump defenders write things like “I preemptively disbelieve anything that comes from the New York Times,” in the course of trying to bat down the latest report that doesn’t make Trump look good. The question of Trump’s credibility is apparently one that those folks prefer not to ponder.

    It’s safe to say that Donald Trump’s truth-to-falsehood ratio is far, far lower than that of any MSM outlet.

    I’ve seen supposed “thinking people” claim that Trump is doing a public service by “calling out” the biased media. Never mind that he’s only complaining that they don’t portray him personally in a flattering light. When he occasionally frames his complaint in terms of party or ideology, that’s just a convenient fiction.

    If the media go overboard in negativity, I’m not particularly offended on Trump’s behalf, given his nastiness toward other people, his general dishonesty, and the ludicrous apologetics coming from the Trumpist media.

    Radegunda (441583)

  24. Those ground squirrels ain’t so bad after all, mg. ski u ma

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  25. @8. Get use to it: she’s the next Republican president.

    ________

    I miss clarity: the Berlin Wall.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. “I’ve been skeptical of the MSM and its ideological tilt for many years. But recognizing the faults of ABC, CBS, CNN, NYT et al. doesn’t mean that Donald Trump or his enablers are trustworthy.”

    Congrats on being skeptical of what should be obvious unprofessionalism but why not stick to what I said and not try to create straw men?

    The story here is the obvious ideology-over-journalism culture which should cloud everything they report.

    harkin (337580)

  27. Small point, Dana, – but O’Donnell’s full question to Haley was ‘impeached and removed from office.’ Natual conversational banter shortens it to just ‘impeached’ – which likely includes the implication of removal as there’s little doubt the House will vote to impeach.

    Nikki’s signaling she’ll jump out Boeing if Trump gives her a place to land on the ticket after he beats the Senate wrap and done w/any further need for Mikey. Nikki Haley is the future of the GOP; she’s the right age, gender and color; tanned, rested– and ready. The first woman president will not win being an ‘Old Scold.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. @23 I see that even Devin doesn’t really believe the President is innocent. Only 4 of those witnesses are relevant and they already know they aren’t going to get one of those (the whistleblower).

    Nic (896fdf)

  29. Speaking of the Berlin Wall……

    Jacobin
    @jacobinmag
    The scenes of thousands of East Germans passing through the Berlin Wall crossing on November 9, 1989 are remembered as the end of the Cold War. But just days earlier, a million had demonstrated for reform — and they wanted to create a democratic socialism.
    __ _

    Chris
    @ChrisHerc
    Replying to
    @jacobinmag
    oh, so they should have never torn it down then ?
    __ _

    Virginia Yankee
    @VirginiaYankee1

    Interesting spin on the worst day of your life.
    __ _

    Síocháin
    @janedoe13256155
    ·
    And which one of you ridiculous, whiny children actually lived in East Germany before the wall came down? Which one of you knows, first hand, of the hideous human rights abuses? Or do you know and you want more human rights abuses? That’s your platform — abuse? You’re repulsive.

    _

    harkin (337580)

  30. Donald Trump’s spiritual advisor is his very good brain. This lady’s just a grifter and he doesn’t need any advice in that department either.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  31. 29. Impeachment isn’t a question of innocence. It’s a question of whether Donald J. Trump is fit for office. I’d say the answer to that question is a manifest *no*.

    Gryph (08c844)

  32. Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71) — 11/9/2019 @ 11:34 am

    I’m reminded of The Rolling Stones song Far-away Eyes

    I was driving home early Sunday morning through Bakersfield
    Listening to gospel music on the colored radio station
    And the preacher said, “You know you always have the Lord by your side”
    And I was so pleased to be informed of this
    That I ran twenty red lights in his honor
    Thank you Jesus, thank you lord

    […]

    Well the preacher kept right on saying that all I had to do was send
    Ten dollars to the church of the sacred bleeding heart of Jesus
    Located somewhere in Los Angeles, California
    And next week they’d say my prayer on the radio
    And all my dreams would come true

    Dave (7d9442)

  33. Nikki Haley is the future of the GOP; she’s the right age, gender and color; tanned, rested– and ready.

    She’s also just proven that she’s an eager apologist for the most vile and corrupt piece of sewage to ever pollute Washington.

    She can go to hell right along with him.

    Dave (7d9442)

  34. Golden Gophers survive.
    Penn State can never lose enough.

    mg (8cbc69)

  35. @34. You must have missed the Nixon years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. Nixon was a Boy Scout compared to the current criminal traitor.

    Dave (7d9442)

  37. 37. Name the crime.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  38. Really? With Veterans Day in mind, when ‘the current criminal traitor’ sends 31,000 American soldiers to their deaths with a report in hand knowing full well the futility of it– just so he’d not be tagged as ‘first president to lose a war’ – get back to us.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. ^39 for Dave’s 39.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. ^for Dave’s 37. Sorry f/t typos.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. With leftists, history is wiped cleaned at midnight, and starts anew when they awake.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  42. Nixon wasn’t working for the enemy. Trump is.

    Dave (b48b77)

  43. #27 — I’m speaking of the weird ethical code of all those who aren’t a whit bothered by Donald Trump’s egregious, routine dishonesty, while they huff about dishonesty elsewhere.

    I don’t think the president should get a blanket indulgence to lie casually all the time, while everyone else is held to a higher standard.

    When Trump defenders start being offended by Trump’s habitual lying, then they can be taken seriously when they criticize dishonesty elsewhere. Not before.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  44. Also, Nixon – to his great discredit – corrupted the machinery of government to cover up a crime committed by others without his knowledge. Trump on the other hand willfully committed the crimes himself.

    Anyway, we’ve now established what kind of woman Ms. Haley is. The price is only remaining point of uncertainty.

    Dave (b48b77)

  45. 43. So Trump is working for you, I knew it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  46. “ I don’t miss Beldar in the least. A pompous ass and a bully.”

    – Kevin M

    Yeah, asking people to argue their opponent’s actual positions and quote their actual words and actually knowing what he’s talking about based on decades of professional experience, what a jerk.

    We need more speculative misleading bullsh*t I guess.

    Leviticus (67a668)

  47. With leftists, history is wiped cleaned at midnight, and starts anew when they awake.

    With Trump, there’s no history apart from what he knows and cares about, and no truth apart from what serves his immediate interests.

    Trump defenders somehow don’t consider that a problem.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  48. 46 #notmycriminaltraitor

    Dave (8c816b)

  49. Good to see all the liberals attacking ABC/CBS over the Epstein cover-up. Lets support our Whistleblowers, eh lefty?

    LOL! Does anyone with A BRAIN think the liberal/Left has ANY principles. Lie/Lie/Lie. And hope the boobs believe your propaganda.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  50. With Trump, there’s no history apart from what he knows and cares about

    In fairness, there’s also the sh*t he just makes up.

    Dave (86a905)

  51. Eric Ciaramalla is the Whistle-blower and should be forced to publicly testify. AND Lt. Col Vinemann should be FORCED to publicly testify and say who he gave classified data to.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  52. ”When Trump defenders start being offended by Trump’s habitual lying, then they can be taken seriously when they criticize dishonesty elsewhere. Not before.”
    Radegunda (39c35f) — 11/9/2019 @ 2:38 pm

    I’m greatly offended by Trump’s brazen lie that Kim has gotten to know Melania when really they never met.

    And, I’m thankful the media exposed the Trump Russia collusion lie before we wasted two years on it.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  53. @45. We? You mean you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. @45. You really need to review the tapes– and Nixon’s treason through the Chennault Affair. Trump’s the Boy Scout compared to The Big Dick.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. I wouldn’t call her a heuer, I used to hear she was more of a man-izer, putting the gubernatorial SUV to good use. That face can’t wait for deuce-eight, unfortunately.

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  56. I don’t think that was called for.

    Sorry, that is my honest impression. Sooner or later he called everyone a fool, or picked a fight with them. Not sorry.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  57. @56. Watch. Next phase; the hair. She’ll trim it to a less girlish, more ‘mature’ power cut.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. Radegunda (441583) — 11/9/2019 @ 12:22 pm

    I preemptively disbelieve anything that comes from the New York Times. They have proved to me that their politics comes before their facts.

    I also preemptively disbelieve anything that comes out of the mouth of President Trump. He has proved to me that he will lie with the truth would serve him better.

    The first predates the advent of the second.

    To be fair, though, I’ll believe the Times before I believe the Post.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  59. *he will lie WHEN the truth would serve him better

    Kevin M (19357e)

  60. You know whose face bringsto mind a glistening mound of untouched Silly Putty?

    Trump’s ‘Faith Advisor.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. Yeah, asking people to argue their opponent’s actual positions

    while continuously ignoring the other guy’s actual positions.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  62. @59. Really? There’s a NYT front page framed up in the den w/t headline: MEN WALK ON MOON.

    Must be ‘fake news.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. She’s also just proven that she’s an eager apologist for the most vile and corrupt piece of sewage to ever pollute Washington.

    She can go to hell right along with him.

    Dave,

    Suppose Trump is impeached and convicted by January. Which group of people do you suppose will have a viable future in the GOP?

    A. Those that opposed Trump all along and/or voted to convict?

    B. Those that defended or worked with Trump as the President and leader of his party?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  64. @59. Really? There’s a NYT front page framed up in the den w/t headline: MEN WALK ON MOON.

    Yes, because 1969’s NYT informs us about the Times 50 (or even 30) years later. If they wrote that today it would read: “Despite much suffering among the underclass, starved to provide funds for militaristic adventurers, 2 white men allegedly walk on moon”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  65. Then “Fact check: they actually hopped.”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  66. Nixon was smart. Probably the smartest of all the Presidents. And loyal. To his country and to his people. It was his loyalty to his people which led to the Watergate mess which led to his impeachment. And most important of all, he was never buggered by Roy Cohn.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. #37 Nixon was a Boy Scout compared to the current criminal traitor.

    Yeah. I can see why you’d miss Beldar.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  68. Actually, I’m pretty sure that Beldar would argue that point. At length.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  69. And do you think that Trump could have kept his mouth shut about the Moon landings being in a Hollywood studio? Hell, no! Nixon could and did. Because he loved America.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. And most important of all, he was never buggered by Roy Cohn.

    What does Bobby Kennedy have to do with this?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  71. As it’s an open thread, will post a reminder a little early of when America truly was ‘great’– and admired around the world less for what it said and more or what it accomplished.

    50 years ago this coming week, Apollo 12 left for the moon- thundering off the launch pad and struck twice by lightning through a fierce storm– for what eventually became an incredibly precise landing in the Ocean of Storms on Luna, less than 600 feet from America’s Surveyor III lunar probe which had soft-landed there 2 1/2 years earlier.

    The air-and-ground audio of the launch is an exercise of what it means to have both ‘the right stuff’ in flight and ‘steely-eyed-missile men’ on the ground. Twelve was crewed by Pete Conrad, Al Bean and Dick Gordon– all three are gone now. Had a few conversations w/Bean several years ago, who became an artist after he left NASA and his lunar artwork is truly beautiful- ‘Remingtonesque’ in intent. Have two prints framed up; both of which he said were his personal favorites.

    And although their color TV camera failed after 20 minutes or so, they returned a treasure trove of remarkable photographs -and moon rocks.

    Explore Apollo 12 for a while– if only to leave the trials and tribulations of this world briefly, for another; it puts things in perspective.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_12

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. Congrats LSU!

    Beatin’Bama’s azz red w/pain!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. @67. Taping yourself ain’t smart. 31,000 dead ain’t smart.

    It just smarts.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. Moreover, DCSCA, in regard to Nikki Haley, you underestimate the insensate vampirism of the orange leech. The piece of sh!t has already forgotten that she defended him against impeachment. That was just mommy adjusting his high chair. Routine, no more than his due, and unremarkable. What the criminal traitor will never forget is that she tweeted “Uncalled for” when he was badmouthing Bolton. “You just don’t do that to America!”

    nk (dbc370)

  75. Sorry, that is my honest impression. Sooner or later he called everyone a fool, or picked a fight with them. Not sorry.
    Kevin M (19357e) — 11/9/2019 @ 3:32 pm

    Beldar never called me a fool, nor did he pick a fight with me. Are you vexed that Beldar’s past adversary honors him, Kevin?

    felipe (023cc9)

  76. 73, that’s just karma for hosting. The real battle comes to Baton Rouge next Saturday and I ain’t talkin’ pigskin.

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  77. He was just verbose…like another Texian that seems to have tagged into the ring in Beldar’s stead.

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  78. urbanleftbehind (f67e14) — 11/9/2019 @ 4:40 pm

    Interesting observation. That’s the thing about most Texians; they ally.

    felipe (023cc9)

  79. When you have lost the atheists…

    Here is my contribution to the news you could possibly use.

    felipe (023cc9)

  80. Dohbiden has always been missed.
    and Milhouse, daleyrocks, shipwreckedcrew, papertiger, gary gulrud and scores more……………………

    mg (8cbc69)

  81. @75. Never forget: he likes being spanked by the ladies. 😉

    ‘Bad Donald!’ =smack=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. Now posting from 29,000 feet over the Coral Sea…

    I am sorry that nastiness ensued after my remark about Beldar. I enjoyed his stories, and when he was on his game his contributions definitely raised the level of discourse here.

    Way better than that nk guy.

    Dave (48d7f7)

  83. mg (8cbc69) — 11/9/2019 @ 5:02 pm
    Yes! Daleyrocks and elissa. We should not forget Tanny O’Haley; the father of the script.

    Make the comments of annoying commenters disappear, with a simple comment script! Instructions here: https://is.gd/CommentScript

    or here.

    felipe (023cc9)

  84. Kevin, my experience of Beldar is completely different from yours. I thought he elevated the level of this blog, and he was willing to dig into, and explain the legal details better than anyone. And I liked his raconteur abilities. Nor do I remember him misinterpreting, much less distorting, anything I said.

    I think his reason for leaving here was wrong, but that’s about the only thing I can fault him for.

    Kishnevi (378575)

  85. mg (8cbc69) — 11/9/2019 @ 5:02 pm

    True, several people one would like to see again. One you missed was Steve57.

    Kishnevi (378575)

  86. Festivus, at least the airing of the grievances, came 6 weeks early.

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  87. Beldar has a blog. https://beldar.blogs.com It is not very active, but it has his email on the sidebar whereby you may forward your greetings and felicitations.

    nk (dbc370)

  88. And please stop your sniveling about your trip to Australia, Dave. My daughter flew there, at age 9, from Chicago not California, to go snorkeling at The Great Barrier Reef, and squeezed in a day of surfing at Waikiki on the way back too, and enjoyed the whole thing very much.

    nk (dbc370)

  89. sniveling

    Where did I snivel?

    Sheesh.

    Dave (48d7f7)

  90. Democrats suddenly are sticklers for data retention. Hilarity ensues.

    “So you say you used your personal or you had a dual cell phone for personal and business. Are you familiar with the Federal Records Act and its requirements for record keeping?”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/9/impeachment-democrats-worry-about-bleachbit-repeat/

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  91. 31,000 dead ain’t smart.

    Yeah! Why did Nixon start that stupid Vietnam war, anyway?!?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  92. Republicans Argue Impeachment Case Falls Short of Proving Trump Misconduct

    House Republicans on Saturday offered the latest glimpse of their strategy to fight against impeachment by demanding testimony from figures at the center of President Trump’s favorite unsubstantiated theories: the son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., a researcher loosely connected to an anti-Trump dossier, a Democratic official and a board member of a Ukrainian energy company.

    Rather than shy away from conspiracies that Mr. Trump’s own government has repeatedly disavowed or played down, the Republicans’ requests suggest their willingness to conduct a scorched-earth strategy as they respond to nearly a month of blockbuster revelations about pressure campaigns involving military aid, diplomatic shakedowns and rogue actions by the president’s personal lawyer. …..

    Despite claims by the Republicans to the contrary, there is already a mountain of evidence against the president: The reconstructed transcript of a call suggests Mr. Trump pressed his Ukrainian counterpart to begin politically beneficial investigations into the Bidens and an unsubstantiated theory of Democratic collusion in 2016, and thousands of pages of testimony document efforts to hold up military aid and a White House meeting unless Ukraine announced investigations into Mr. Trump’s political rivals. ……

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  93. That can’t argue that Trump didn’t do it. So they are forced to argue that his actions were justified. The argument would have more impact if they could produce as supporting evidence things that actually happened.

    Kishnevi (378575)

  94. @93: The NYT ”on Saturday offered the latest glimpse of their strategy to” run interference for the Democrats.

    “conspiracies”, “blockbuster revelations”, “diplomatic shakedowns”, “mountain of evidence”….

    Such straining should be reserved for the outhouse.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  95. The progression of the defense:

    It never happened.
    It never happened, but if it happened, it wasn’t illegal.
    OK, it happened, but it wasn’t illegal.
    It happened, but if it was illegal, it wasn’t that big a deal.
    OK, it happened and it was illegal, but it wasn’t that big a deal.

    (next step?: It happened, it was illegal, but if it was a big deal, it’s almost the election.)

    Bill Clinton won the argument at step 5. Nixon couldn’t make the argument in step 6. We’ll see what happens.

    Nic (896fdf)

  96. Well, blockbuster revelations is not true. Trump being a blustering corrupt incompetent is not new information.

    But the rest is true. Remember the main GOP defenses seem at the moment to be
    –Trump was justified in demanding Ukraine investigate supposed corruption and using the money as leverage in doing so
    –there was a conspiracy at the Rudy/Gordon level but it didn’t involve Trump himself
    –there was a conspiracy but it actually had no results
    –yes, Trump did it but it’s not worthy of impeachment
    –the Constitution has a secret provision that doesn’t allow Presidents to be impeached while running for re-election
    –Democrats are Bad People, so Trump is free to do whatever he wants.

    Kishnevi (378575)

  97. Quirky weather

    The high in Denver CO was slightly higher today than the high in Fort Lauderdale (76 F vs 74 F). Don’t see that very often. But that isn’t for long. The overnight low in Denver will be about 38F.

    Kishnevi (378575)

  98. What Trump needs to do is get Putin and Erdogan to negotiate a ceasefire and create a buffer zone between him and Congress, that’s what he needs to do.

    So … on this Russian collusion thingie in 2016 that was a witch-hunt … does anybody believe that an orange who would ask the Ukrainians for help in the 2020 election would have hesitated to ask the Russians for help in the 2016 election?

    nk (dbc370)

  99. “The progression of the defense:
    It never happened.
    It never happened, but if it happened, it wasn’t illegal.
    OK, it happened, but it wasn’t illegal.
    It happened, but if it was illegal, it wasn’t that big a deal.
    OK, it happened and it was illegal, but it wasn’t that big a deal.”
    Nic (896fdf) — 11/9/2019 @ 7:23 pm

    What is this referring to? Collusion? Or, obstruction perhaps? Maybe Stormy? Or Cohen? Tax returns? Mean tweets?

    Who’s on first? What’s on second?

    Next step: anything but Hunter Biden

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  100. does anybody believe that an orange who would ask the Ukrainians for help in the 2020 election would have hesitated to ask the Russians for help in the 2016 election?

    Spoiler alert:

    Trump is on videotape asking the Russians for help in the 2016 election, and his son, son-in-law and campaign manager have confessed to attending a meeting with Russian intelligence operatives to facilitate receipt of same.

    Dave (48d7f7)

  101. “I don’t miss Beldar in the least. A pompous ass and a bully.
    Kevin M (19357e) — 11/9/2019 @ 10:24 am”

    Hear, Hear!

    Matador (39e0cd)

  102. IANAL, however, my understanding of the prosecutorial process is this: there are a variety of considerations before bringing a charge before the court. What they finally decide often depends on the investigatory process. Lets say there is a missing bike. Maybe they discover that someone who had permission took it, not a crime. Maybe it was stolen, a crime. It’s a different charge depending on how expensive the bike it (is it a professional racing bike, or is it a five year old’s learning bike) and what happens to it (possibly if they sell it through their gang connections there could be a gang enhancement.) Maybe there was some other more complicated process where someone stole the bike to rig it with explosives and murder a Tour de France rival (attempted murder).

    What we have at this time is what appears as an improper conversation (missing bike). What the possible final articles of impeachment could say will depend on the process we are currently in.

    Nic (896fdf)

  103. W”ho’s the Fredo now?” Chris Cuomo itches to yell. (Dave -101)

    urbanleftbehind (f67e14)

  104. I take back every bad thing I ever said about Obama.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/9/2019 @ 10:29 am

    Wow.

    I always read the posts, the commenters were the value here.

    When nk lays down, it is done.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  105. @92. The smarter question is- why didn’t he end it as h campaigned he would, wasting 31,000 w/PP in hand. But then, we know; the tapes and his own notes told us so.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. To paraphrase Instapundit, I’m so old I can remember when

    DPRK News

    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/1192854533233369089 was still satire before morphing into America’s Paper of Record.

    Donald Trump, to attend Russian May Day parade, will join past luminaries such as Joseph Stalin, Leonid Brezhnev, and Mao Zedong.

    Kishnev, I went to an Air Force v. Army game several years back, on the first Saturday of November. The temp was 76, but below freezing at night. Unforgettable experience being at that game. The jets did a fly-by and it felt like a small earthquake.

    Paul Montagu (00daa1)

  107. @83. FWIW, that is just “plane” cool.

    Thank you, Space Age.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. Wow, terrible formatting.

    Paul Montagu (00daa1)

  109. Former CBS producer Ashley Bianco told Megyn Kelly she did not leak a video

    But was she framed by the real leaker?

    Apparently she accessed the video a just a little before she was fired.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  110. Just imagine: somewhere in the hallways of our enormous government, someone has researched whether Trump gets to keep a secret service detail if he defects to Russia.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  111. Interesting, there’s a new movie out this weekend about the Battle of Midway.

    Captain Ed over at HotAir likes it.

    Dave (b50cf2)

  112. Dave at #111, that screams for the Instapundit-like blog lede “They said if I voted for (not-Trump), it would lead to hispanic criminals being out on our streets to kill again”.

    urbanleftbehind (bcfdea)

  113. When you have lost the atheists…

    Here is my contribution to the news you could possibly use.

    felipe (023cc9) — 11/9/2019 @ 4:59 pm

    Appreciate the article. Man is fallen. Without Him, what are humans, but selfish, intelligent animals that are only concerned with our own selfish desires.

    Not to mention there will be eternal damnation without His grace.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  114. I hear you. Rinos want to be called Fredocons

    mg (8cbc69)

  115. 114 – Good call!

    They told me if I didn’t vote for Donald Trump, Hispanic gang members would be set free to slaughter the innocent – and they were right!

    Dave (b50cf2)

  116. I’ve got a story to tell about an attempted SWATing yesterday.
    Mrs. Montagu and I went to a memorial/wake for a neighbor and friend who died in a fire the week before. He was a good guy, and his dog also perished. To us, it was shocking and saddening that it happened, and it was nice that our neighbors set up this event.
    We held the get-together in his honor in a horse pasture, the same place where they have Freedom Fest, an annual gathering that has happened over the last ten Labor Day Weekends, and it’s like a mini Woodstock. People camp in the pasture and listen to all these great bands. It’s just plain fun, watching all these old hippies play and enjoy the music, so it was cool to have a remembrance of our friend at this place.
    But getting back to yesterday. We had a potluck laid out, and there was a nice fire for staying warm (November in the Seattle area can be a little wet and cold), and four talented musicians came to play some music and to say a few words about our friend. About an hour or so into the music, several of us noticed a small traffic jam at an intersection about a thousand feet away, and that most of the vehicles were police cars, about a dozen or so. One of the folks in our group went over and came back and said they were there because of a reported brawl.
    Curious, I walked over and talked to one of the deputies. I asked what happened and he said they received a report of a “30-deep brawl”, whatever that is. The deputy was a nice guy, and he said “we’re sorry for your loss”. Thankfully, instead of going directly in, they held back and assessed the situation and stood down.
    The person who attempted the SWATing, as it turned out, was a next-door neighbor, generally recognized as a psycho German lady. I asked the deputy if there would be any repercussions for her call, and he said, “probably not, because her perception can be open to interpretation.”
    To me, that’s not good enough. My wife and my friends could’ve been physically endangered by that call.
    It’s a problem in WA State, just like in other places, and that link is one of many examples. I’m not aware of any anti-SWATing laws here and, IMO, it’s past time to have such a law on the books. To me, a SWATing like that is similar to arson, because a person has committed a potentially violent act that can potentially kill people. It should be a felony to make such a call.
    For me, I intend to write the County Executive and our Governor about what happened. We need to have a law on this before somebody in this state gets killed by an angry, judgy twat.

    Paul Montagu (b92592)

  117. Glad your safe, Paul Montagu.

    mg (8cbc69)

  118. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/11/09/cindy-mccain-says-country-needs-john-mccain-more-than-ever/
    I have not laughed this hard so early in the morning! Being around those two Mccain women would no doubt put a guy in the dirt.

    mg (8cbc69)

  119. Haley said, “You’re going to impeach a president for asking for a favor that didn’t happen and giving money and it wasn’t withheld?”

    She went on to call it “the death penalty for a public official,”

    Yes…. and No, it isn’t.

    noel (f22371)

  120. Do we really need to explain that attempted crimes are also a big problem. Oh, he tried to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue but he didn’t hit them. Whew. Nothing to see here.

    noel (f22371)

  121. And do I recall that we Republicans tried to give Bill Clinton the “death penalty” for his Lewinsky thing?

    noel (f22371)

  122. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/the-ukraine-scandal-spreads.php

    Hinderaker has it entirely correct that the corruption in the Obama administration in regards to Ukraine needs to be thoroughly investigated and revealed. But the media protects its own side.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  123. Oh, he tried to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue but he didn’t hit them. Whew. Nothing to see here.

    Yeah, and if you try bribe a cop or a judge, but they refuse, you should be in the clear, right?

    Dave (d1e5e7)

  124. “So Obama administration corruption relating to Ukraine may well have extended beyond Burisma’s $3 million bribe to the Biden family. President Trump was entirely correct in wanting this Obama/Biden administration corruption to be investigated, but the Democratic Party press seems to have succeeded, bizarrely, in painting Trump as the villain of the story. Who says the “mainstream” press no longer has any power? The Biden family’s self-enrichment is a great example of the swamp against which Donald Trump ran for office, and America’s reporters and editors, with few exceptions, are swamp members in good standing.”

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/the-ukraine-scandal-spreads.php_

    harkin (337580)

  125. If there was credible evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son, the Justice Department would have received legitimate tips to follow up on. But, as we all know, that didn’t happen. Trump tried using bribery and extortion at taxpayers expense to initiate an investigation by the Ukrainians into the Bidens. Demanding it be PUBLICLY announced for maximum damage. And now we are all supposed to stay focused on the Bidens and avert our eyes from the President’s scheme.

    Don the Con.

    noel (f22371)

  126. Dave (48d7f7) — 11/9/2019 @ 7:49 pm

    Trump is on videotape asking the Russians for help in the 2016 election,

    Well, he didn’t say he would reward them, he said the media would. If they could find Hillary’s deleted emails. Which everyone knew were offline, if they were still anywhere (one place they maybe might have been was on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, but the FBI conducted an automated search.) People might have assumed that maybe they had been stolen long before. But actually her email was more secure than sate.gov because all the common ways to get into it didn’t apply: no backdoor password reset, no plausible phishing, no dictionary atttack and it had unknown software and limited throughput and any enhanced activity would soon be noticed by the SYSOP.

    and his son, son-in-law and campaign manager have confessed to attending a meeting with Russian intelligence operatives to facilitate receipt of same.

    The didn’t identify themselves as Russian intelligence operatives nor did they say they were going to give them or tell them about, what was discovered on hacked into computers.

    This was supposed to be a leak from the office of the Prosecutor General of Russia of something that had turned up in an investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  127. Paul Manafort met with someone who we can reasonably assume was a Russian intelligence operative, but al he gave him was some polls. He carefully avoided being asked to tell Donald Trump things (according to his testimony to the Mueller investigation from when he was co-operating) H didn’t feel he coud just say no.

    Mike Flynn spent a day at GRU headqarters in Moscow when he was head pf the Defense Intelligence agency.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  128. 64. Whoever can win general elections.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  129. @124
    Yeah, Powerline blog is a reliable news source. Or after nearly 3 years the Trump-led DOJ hasn’t opened an investigation, or the 2016-2018 Republican Congress never conducted hearings, then there really is nothing to see.

    Rip Murdock (f966f2)

  130. Goes looking.
    https://www.rferl.org/a/tables-turned-on-anticorruption-activists-in-ukraine-/29145613.html

    It would seem the State Department intervened to protect an anticorruption organization.

    Again,, Trumpism is reduced to claiming that it’s corrupt to expose corruption, as long as it’s Democrats trying to expose the corruption.

    kishnevi (496414)

  131. Lawmakers spar over impeachment witnesses as probe enters public phase

    With the impeachment inquiry into President Trump poised to enter a new public phase, lawmakers on Sunday sparred over the witnesses who will be allowed to testify, with Democrats dismissing GOP efforts to call the anonymous whistleblower and former vice president Joe Biden’s son Hunter.

    In an interview on ABC News’s “This Week,” Rep Jackie Speier (D-Calif.), a member of the House Intelligence Committee, raised the issue of the “great risk associated with [the whistleblower’s] life right now.” She also said that it is unnecessary for the individual to appear before the intelligence panel because other witnesses who were actually on Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — which is at the center of the inquiry — will testify.

    “The only thing that the whistleblower can say is that he was told by other people about the phone call,” Speier said. “We have the other people coming forward to actually testify. So you have direct evidence, not indirect evidence.”

    Speier argued that having Hunter Biden testify would also be “irrelevant” because he “is unrelated to the Ukraine call.” Some of the witnesses Republicans have requested may be allowed, she added, including National Security Council official Tim Morrison and former Ukraine envoy Kurt Volker, both of whom have already testified behind closed doors. ……

    Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-Tex.) argued on “This Week” that “there will be a taint to this one-sided, partisan approach to impeachment.”

    He said it would be “inappropriate,” but not impeachable, for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival, as Trump is alleged to have done. The importance of process, Thornberry maintained, cannot be ignored. …..

    While he’s at it, Nunes should subpoena Devin Nunes Cow and Devin Nunes Mom.

    Rip Murdock (f966f2)

  132. GOP efforts to call the anonymous whistleblower and former vice president Joe Biden’s son Hunter.

    On the Republican witness request list are also Nellie Orr, (the wife of Bruce Orr, she wrked for Fusion GPS) the whistleblower and Akexandra Chalupa, a 2016 opposition researcher on Trump and pro-Ukraine activist (among other things) whom the whistleblower knew because she was invited with a group of others into the White House.

    This looks more like a list to embarrass the Democrats than a defense.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  133. Hunter Biden doesn’t belong here because the issue isn’t what Hunter Biden did, it’s what Donald Trump (and others) knew when they asked Ukraine to investigate.

    Showing there was just cause to investigate really doesn’t answer that question, although itt would mitigate the offense.

    A person who should be on the witness list is Joe Biden, because he was the one whom Trump was really interested in, and because (according to Alexander Vidmann) Trump said he had a recording of Biden. And he claimed it sounded horrible to him.

    This is what he heard: (although, if he heard it all, he definitely did not listen too closely)

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    … And that is I’m desperately concerned about the backsliding on the part of Kiev in terms of corruption. They made — I mean, I’ll give you one concrete example. I was—not I, but it just happened to be that was the assignment I got. I got all the good ones. And so I got Ukraine. And I remember going over, convincing our team, our leaders to—convincing that we should be providing for loan guarantees. And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

    So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

    To this was added the claim that the prosecutor was investigating Burisma, the company that Hunter Biden sat on the board of, and that getting rid of him stopped the investigation. Not true, but if Biden were honest, he’d want to explain what really happened then.

    He can’t, because the whole anecdote is probably entirely made up!

    The last time Joe Biden was in Kiev before the prosecutor left office in March, 2016, was in December, 2015; and it was his 5th trip and not his 12th or 13th; and I don’t think there’s anything on the record that they were about to announce the loan guarantees at any time when Joe Biden was there; and in November 2015 already the Obama administration had said the loans were conditional; and they were conditional not just on one thing – replacing the Prosecutor General – but on a lot of things; and they weren’t announced until early June, after the Ukrainian Parliament passed a package of U.S. endorsed anti-corruption legislation.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  134. Koshnevi @132. That’s right. Two U.S. Ambassadors were trying to protect what was regarded as a good n anti-corruption organization and didn’t want them investigated or prosecuted on charges of accepting bribes from foreign countries. Not even Israel does that with genuinely bad human rights organizations, or Hungary with good ones. They just try to force them to stop operating or receiving help from outside the country. But nobody gets charged , or threatened, criminally.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  135. And the Republicans also should ask for John Bolton to be subpoenaed. They don’t, because they are too loyal to Trump.

    He would probably testify that there was a conspiracy at the Gordon/Mulvaney level (Rudy was a target of this conspiracy, not a conspirator) to try to force Ukraine to launch investigations, but it didn’t involve Trump himself because it was too un-co-ordinated and secret from people in the government itself. And Trump was a target too.

    Trump was disposed to not send the aid at all, and these people were trying to figure out what could shake the aid loose – that is, what could get Giuliani to tell Trump that the people in charge now in Ukraine were good guys.

    Sodndland and Mulvaney never wanted to tell Ukraine that the aid was held up because then Ukraine would make that public.

    The key thing was to get Giuliani to tell Trump that the people running Ukraine were good guys.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  136. Well then what is this about re Mulvaney?
    http://news.yahoo.com/seeking-join-suit-over-subpoena-170356907.html

    urbanleftbehind (e5684c)

  137. The whistleblower got things wrong. He thought all the allegations were coming from Lutsenko, because t=it looks like the allegations against Marie Yovanovivh, about which he seems to have been the most informed, probably were.

    Yovanovich was accused of badmouthing Trump, which she had not donw. She waw accused of that because shew as protecting critics of Lutsenko. A visa denial to Viktor Shokin was also possibly a motivation.

    She asked Gordon Sondland for advice and he told her to tweet support for Trump. She said she couldn’t do that in her role as an Ambassador (the Hatch Act?)

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  138. Interesting interview with John Cleese and Eric Idle on the deluxe digitalized Blu-Ray edition of Monty Python’s Flying Circus, released for the 50th anniversary of the show.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/monty-pythons-john-cleese-and-eric-idle-on-50-years-of-flying-circus-and-the-trump-and-brexit-shitshow?ref=scroll

    I’ve always loved Monty Python. The Search for the Holy Grail is absolutely hilarious. Monty Python broke every rule in the book and elevated comedy to its highest level, but I did not know that both George Harrison and Eric Idle saw the spirit of the Beatles in Python. I never would have made that connection, but thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

    As comedians, Cleese and Idle have a different perspective. They offer keen insights into Trump, but they don’t think he’s funny. Their views on social media and the culture it’s engendered are profound as well.

    Also, I agree with everything Marin Scorsese has to say about cinema.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/movies/martin-scorsese-i-said-marvel-movies-arent-cinema-let-me-explain/ar-AAJSRMA

    I read a lot of Marvel comics when I was a kid, even though Batman of DC comics has always been my favorite, because he was a real human. He didn’t have superpowers, just smarts and gadgets (weapons). Only a few other characters in the comic realm were like him, the rest were other worldly. Superman, for example, is a space alien. Thor is a Nordic god come from Asgard. (I really liked the Thor series though, because they often involved long, complicated plots that played out over several issues.) The others all had some sort of superpower, usually caused by radiation–Spiderman, the Hulk, the Fantastic Four–or some mutation–the X-Men–or some magical instrument–Dr. Strange, the Green Lantern. Those were fun to read, but they weren’t very plausible.

    I’ve watched several of the movies, but to me they don’t do the comic books justice. The Dark Knight and Iron Man were well done, but the rest are superficial characters with special effects.

    That’s Scorsese’s point. It is not cinema. All true poetry, literature and film is revelatory of the human condition, however majestic or sordid it may be. That is the purpose of art, to reveal the inherent self-contradiction of the human. What we have now–and this applies to poetry, literature, dance, theater, television, and movies–is loss of significance. It’s all just flash-in-the-pan special effects, with no character or plot development, no drama. Silly stories about superheroes.

    About a decade ago, I got this assignment on a repossessed home in Weslaco. It was easy to locate, as I was familiar with the subdivision. It was vacant, called the locksmith, went in. This house was in pristine condition, no damage anywhere whatsoever. The couple who lost this house cleaned everything, even vacuumed the carpets. So I’m walking around, taking pictures, thinking this is the easiest repo I’ve ever done.

    I opened the closet of the master bedroom, and there were vintage movie posters, on cardboard backs with plastic wrap, of Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, and Casablanca.

    This mystified me. I mean, these people, they take all their furniture and clothes, clean the entire house, even vacuum, and leave these posters behind? These are the original posters for three of the greatest films ever made! Who knows how much they’re worth.

    So, I moved them, took a picture of an empty closet, put them in my truck, drove away, and now they’re mine.

    Is that theft? No, it’s more like lost or forgotten and found. Would it be any different if they had left the posters next to the garbage can outside? They left them in a closet. I found them.

    I’m the realtor on the scene. A picture of an empty closet, sent to the asset manager, is proof they were never there to begin with. This couple cannot now come back and say, we forgot our movie posters. There’s no evidence they were there or even existed.

    The benefits of being the realtor on the scene. You really can take anything you want, then take pictures, as proof there was nothing there in the first place. That is not our practice, we really don’t do that, but in this case I made an exception.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  139. Bolton was very anxious to get the aid restored, and he told William Taylor, after it was being explicitly tied to investigations to write a cable explaining how harmful this this idea was, and write it in the first person, which is not the way State Department cables are usually written, and at some point after that Secretary of State Pompeo brought it into the White House to read from it out and discuss what it said.

    But Trump did not restore the aid until after Bolton tendered his resignation (he accepted his resignation, but he took his advice. Trump didn’t like to get cornered like that.)

    I don’t know that the issue over which Bolton offered his resignation was Ukraine, but the timing is intriguing,

    Dan Coats, the Director of National Intelligence, had quit almost right after the freezing of he aid to Ukraine became formal. There, there was a transition period.

    That one was attribued to differences over Russia:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/dni-dan-coats-quit-white-house-suppressed-russia-warnings-nyt-2019-7

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/28/us/politics/dan-coats-intelligence-chief-out.html

    Mr. Coats, a former senator and longtime pillar of the Republican establishment who angered the president by providing unwelcome assessments of Russia, North Korea and other matters, told Mr. Trump last week that it was time to move on, officials said. His departure removes one of the most prominent national security officials willing to contradict the president.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  140. @134
    This looks more like a list to embarrass the Democrats than a defense.

    The Reps list only embarrasses themselves. Aside from a couple of witnesses who have already testified, they are all irrelevant.

    Rip Murdock (e81e20)

  141. Here’s another bot of aidd that Trump withheld somewhere else, because he didn’t like the government. It may shed some light on what was going on with Ukraine aid:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/271224

    Report: Trump refused Netanyahu’s request to transfer aid to PA

    “If it is that important to Netanyahu, he should pay them,” Trump reportedly told his advisers at the prospect.
    Several months ago, President Trump rejected a request by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to allow US aid to be transferred to Palestinian Authority security forces, Channel 13’s Barak Ravid reported in Axios.

    According to the report, while the White House has gradually cut all funding to the PA over the last two years – with the encouragement of Israel – around 6 months ago the State Department realized that $12 million in aid to PA security forces had not been cut, but hadn’t been transferred, either.

    Israeli officials requested from their US counterparts that the money be transferred to PA security forces, “which work hand in hand” with Israel in Judea and Samaria, according to the report. They were told that, as Trump’s policy was to cut funding to the PA, such a decision would have to be cleared by Trump himself.

    When senior White House officials raised the issue with Trump, the president pushed back, saying that the policy was to halt aid to the PA as long as it refused to engage with the administration.

    When they noted that the issue was “very important for Netanyahu,” Trump reportedly replied, “If it is that important to Netanyahu he should pay the Palestinians $12 million.”

    The money was never transferred, according to the report.

    ———————————————————–

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  142. Ms. Hemingway descended into shill-for-Trump a long time ago.

    The obvious question to ask back would have been, who leaked the information to you, Ms. Hemingway? Or are you just basing yourself on what is actually nothing more than a rumor?

    Kishnevi (1fe800)

  143. Maybe one bone spur on a facet joint of the backbone of democracy.

    steveg (354706)

  144. Vindman had concerns, which is fine, but he also took those concerns to Ukrainians and told them to disregard the President.
    If Vindman was at the state Dept. I could see that. But at the NSC and a uniformed officer?
    He over stepped. You bitch up the chain of command, not to overseas foreign contacts.

    Plus he’s a little b**** under cross examination

    steveg (354706)

  145. 64. Whoever can win general elections.

    Yes, because that’s who party primaries always favor.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  146. I was just listening to the radio and heard a financial advisor talking about Trump filing paperwork with the State of NY to move to Florida.
    NY rule is you need to spend Six months and a day outside NY for that to be valid.
    If you pay a toll driving from NJ to Connecticut, by NY law that counts as a day in NY. Make a phone call from your cell phone in NY? That is a day.

    The most interesting part of this to me as relayed by the radio show?
    Trump is now under audit every day by the state of NY and by NYC

    steveg (354706)

  147. Let’s say, come a Senate trial, that 60% of voters polled want Trump removed, but 90% of Republicans are opposed. Further, the same 60% say they will never vote for Trump to be re-elected, no matter who the Democrats nominate.

    Let’s also assume that every Democrat Senator will vote to remove regardless of any evidence.

    So, a GOP Senator has to choose between a likely disaster in 2020 or a likely disaster in their own re-election. (I am discounting the whole “principles” thing because I don’t believe anyone in politics has enough to matter.) Are there 20 GOP Senators who will take one for the team?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  148. @146
    That’s a complete mischaracterization of Vindamann’s testimony (aka Fake News). He took his concerns to NSC lawyers, not the Ukrainians.

    Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a decorated Army officer who served as the National Security Council’s director for Ukraine, told lawmakers that he went to the lawyer, John Eisenberg, to register his concerns about the call, in which Trump asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, according to a person in the room for Vindman’s deposition on Tuesday.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (e81e20)

  149. Mollie Hemingway – an actual reporter – has uttered Eric Ciaramella’s name on FOX. She has more balls than all the Fox News anchors combined. Its hilarious that our Great News Media is more interested in covering up the truth, and hiding facts from the American Public than reporting the NEWS.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  150. @140 – i think it more likely Coates quit because he was unwilling to go after the CIA Obama holdovers that were/are part of the Soft Coup against Trump. IRC, he was a roadblock in de-classifying data related to Barr’s Trump-Russia investigation.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  151. as opposed to a pile of schiff shiller

    mg (8cbc69)

  152. Paul Manafort met with someone who we can reasonably assume was a Russian intelligence operative, but al he gave him was some polls.

    It was internal polling that included battleground states such as MI and WI, states that Trump was unexpectedly successful in. Manafort consistently lied even when he was “cooperating”, and it didn’t help that his lawyer had an ongoing cooperation agreement with Trump’s lawyers.

    Paul Montagu (00daa1)

  153. I’m glad President Trump is in the way of these govt. lawyers setting foot on my property.

    mg (8cbc69)

  154. Coats was fired for always contradicting Trump on North Korea, Russia, and China, is n other words, telling the truth.

    Rip Murdock (e81e20)

  155. #150
    “And the question is, who did Lieutenant Colonel Vindman talk to after the July 25th call?” Jordan asked Vindman’s lawyer if he would be willing to identify individuals he talked to about the call by department but did not want to provide names. Schiff agreed.

    “We just don’t feel comfortable providing names,” Vindman’s lawyer Michael Volkov

    steveg (354706)

  156. identify individuals he talked to about the call by department

    Which implies that Vindmann was talking to people in the US government, not anyone in Ukraine.

    Kishnevi (3bfc26)

  157. #150
    Pages #30, 31, 32 of the transcript show that Vindman brought up his concerns in front of Ukrainians and urged them not to get involved in “the politics” and then the room was cleared because of the “discord” Vindman created
    Radcliffe brings this up and Schiff shuts it down.
    Vindman won’t survive cross examination in the Senate

    steveg (354706)

  158. There were Ukrainians present on the US side of the call

    steveg (354706)

  159. That isn’t just another couple of guys. It’s the Secretary of State and the Chief of Staff, Haley. What a nuthouse. They tell the UN Secretary that they need her help saving the country from this President and she says…. nah, that just wouldn’t be right, ya know.

    Something doesn’t smell right here. Angling for VP? Preempting the news of this that is coming out anyway? Wait and see. I’ve got a feeling that there is more to this than we know now.

    noel (f22371)

  160. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/politics/john-eisenberg-white-house-lawyer.html

    The complaints came to the National Security Council’s top lawyer within hours of each other in early July. Two senior aides said they feared that one of President Trump’s top political appointees was improperly pressuring Ukrainian officials to help the president’s political fortunes.

    That was Gordon D. Sondland, whose day job was Ambassador to the European Union.

    The lawyer, John A. Eisenberg, remained impassive, taking notes as the aides conveyed their concerns, according to congressional testimony released Friday. He promised one official he would follow up and shared the complaints with the White House counsel, who advised him to raise them with Mr. Trump.

    But he never went to Trump because he determined that no one involved had violated the law.

    As for locking up the transcript of the call, he is reported to dent that he ordered the transcript placed in the super secure system. What he did was direct that access to the document be restricted to prevent leaks. He didn’t say how.

    He is one of the few people in the White House since Inauguration Day. He was chosen by the Trump transition team because he was one of the relatively few Republican national security lawyers who had never signed a “Never Trump” statement. He came in with Mike Flynn and had tried to protect him:

    Days into the Trump presidency, F.B.I. agents questioned Mr. Flynn at the White House as part of the Russia investigation. Mr. Eisenberg found out as the interview was happening and rushed to Mr. Flynn’s office, according to a person familiar with the encounter, which was first reported in the book “The Apprentice” by the Washington Post journalist Greg Miller.

    But it was too late: The agents were saying goodbye. The affair ultimately prompted the firing of Mr. Flynn, who later pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. during the interview.

    He also tried to protect him another way: He instructed the national security staff to halt all work on a proposed nuclear plant project in which Mike Flynn had a conflict of interest.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  161. Steve, thanks for clarifying, but that means he was telling certain Ukrainians who themselves directly heard what Trump said they needed to steer clear of what Trump wanted so as not to get involved in the dumpster fire of American politics. He wasn’t talking to people not directly involved in the call already.

    If anything, that reinforces Vindmann’s claims. I certainly don’t see how it might duscredit him, or lead to him, as you put it, not surviving crossexamination in the Senate.

    Kishnevi (3bfc26)

  162. Secretary of State Tillerson. Chief of Staff Kelly. Scaramucci. Omarosa. Michael Cohen. And how many others now?

    Don’t believe me. Believe them. And, sure as hell, don’t believe Nikki Haley and her “death penalty” nonsense.

    noel (f22371)

  163. Nikki Haley is peddling a book. That’s one of her angles right now. What other angles she has? Only the devil knows. She’s a politician, whose parents couldn’t afford to get her braces when she was little, who clawed her way to a governorship, UN ambassador, and board of directors of Boeing, all with a bachelor’s degree in accounting from a mid-tier state university and she’s only 47. In terms of ambition alone, she makes Hillary look like a Buddhist nun.

    nk (dbc370)

  164. @155 only if you aren’t on the US/Mexico border (if you are some farmer near Brownsville TX, for example, you are guaranteed SOL). Or in the way of some other construction project he or his friends want. Or if you aren’t an employer in the ag/garment/food industries. I suspect there are many other situations in which people aren’t actually safe from the government lawyers under Trump.

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. Something doesn’t smell right here. Angling for VP? Preempting the news of this that is coming out anyway? Wait and see. I’ve got a feeling that there is more to this than we know now.

    I can’t see Haley wanting to be Trump’s VP as he may well lose. She’s aligning herself with the Loyalists, but moderately so. Whatever happens in November 2020, or conceivably before, she will be able to pick up the GOP mantle and appeal to all but the former Republicans like ____, who somehow think that the GOP platform of 2012 is going to be restored.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  166. In terms of ambition alone, she makes Hillary look like a Buddhist nun.

    Some time in the next 20 years, she will be the nominee.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  167. Nikki, not Hillary.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  168. @167. What other angles has she?

    For one, she can wear heels and a dress better than Rudy Giuliani and doesn’t look like Hillary Rodham Fireplug when doing so.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  169. Nikki Haley is peddling a book.

    That line is starting to get overused. This morning a talking mouth on MSNBC claimed John Bolton’s ducking Congressional subpoenas was due to the fact he’s writing a memoir, and wants to maximize book sales.

    The man was serious about that, whuch tells you how deep in the muck MSNBC must be scraping for pundits.

    Kishnevi (c5227a)

  170. Eppure lei spaccia.

    nk (dbc370)

  171. It might only be Meek Romney in the Senate and his breakaway mormo cousins might not like getting hung up in the northbound lanes at Nogales checkpoint these days…when you can’t flip Lamar Alexander, ain’t nuthin gonna ghappen.

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  172. ‘Book him, Dan-O’!

    Walrus Gumbo never fails to disappoint.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  173. Since we’re in Open Thread mode…

    Last January while working at the store where I work, a very neatly dressed elderly black gentleman started browsing, and was glad to talk. He was visiting his daughter, but lived in New York, was a jazz musician even though he was past 90 years old. He gave me his card. Just to talk to he was a delight, but his name meant nothing to me until afterwards when I went poking about on Amazon. I ordered some of his CDs, and have now, several months onward, actually listened to them. I’d say anyone who likes music would like his music…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Donaldson

    Kishnevi (7ee5f0)

  174. Very cool. I note he’s originally from NC, from which Coltrane and Monk (whom he worked with) also hail. something in the water maybe.

    JRH (52aed3)

  175. when you can’t flip Lamar Alexander, ain’t nuthin gonna ghappen.

    The year’s still young and Trump is more capable of idiocy than you think.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  176. @156 what “Truth” was Coats Telling Trump on Nk, Russia, or Syria? Y’mean he was spouting the same old failed establishment BS, that led to the problems in the first place, and that Trump was elected to change?

    If so, Trump should have fired him last year.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  177. @163 The first thought of all these WH employees is to rush off to a lawyer an either tattle on the President or CYA. You had the same dynamic during Mueller/Trump/Russia. I see Sessions is still claiming recusing himself was a good thing, which is probably why he won’t get Trump’s support. Looking back, Sessions’ plan was probably to hope TRump would fire him after Comey and then re-run for the Senate and regain his seat in Dec 2017. However, Trump didn’t fire him, but kept him on till NOv 2018.

    As for Haley, sh’es just trying to (1) Sell Books and (2) get some street cred with Trump supporters, since she’ll be running for office again. If Trump gets reelected, look for her to run as a Trump supporter in 2024.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  178. Haley deserves a purple heart for standing up to thug tillerson and that idiot bassterd Kelly.

    mg (8cbc69)

  179. Haley’s smart to see which way the nation and the party are headed. They want yes men. They want zealots. They want loyalty. They kinda want corruption. They do not want integrity.

    She’s a smart politician. But not a good person or a patriot.

    No, mg, she doesn’t deserve a purple heart for her luxurious and easy life making the easy call that benefits herself. Happy Veteran’s Day to Trump’s supporters btw.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  180. Dustin (d42b09) — 11/11/2019 @ 4:14 am

    I agree, Dustin. No one deserves a purple heart for a luxurious and easy life. Let’s see if her life remain lux and easy now that she has thrown in her lot with POTUS. I do not fault Haley (or anyone)for choosing a side*. I would be greatly disappointed of she turns coat.

    *So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth. Rev 3:16 16

    felipe (023cc9)

  181. Let’s see if her life remain lux and easy now that she has thrown in her lot with POTUS

    Of course… it has and will. These guys do get criticized by their nation, but they read it in resorts while servants cater to them all day. They are not victims just because of free speech.

    Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers Psalm 1

    Dustin (d42b09)

  182. So many people joined the Administration because they had general agreement with Trump on the issues. So many have left because they have general agreement that he is unfit for office. When has that EVER happened before?

    noel (f22371)

  183. Thanks, Felipe for the verse…and in a nod to Steve Stone Cold Austin:

    Urbanleftbehind 3:16- when you unleash the fire-breathing dragon, you could get burnt: http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/11/donald-trump-jr-book-talk-ucla-derailed-by-far-right-protesters/

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  184. Is it OK for a sitting President to use the powers of his office to pressure foreign governments to vanquish his political opponents? From now on, is it OK? We all know that is exactly what happened. Even you, Jim Jordan.

    If we cannot get 20 Republican Senators to acknowledge the self evident, we are in serious jeopardy. Plan B is, well, there is no plan B.

    Oh. “God help us” is plan B.

    noel (f22371)

  185. They used to say that, in politics, you must “get it over with” or “rip the scab off” of controversy. This Administration is all about the drip drip drip. It gives FoxNews time to re-educate us on each new revelation and time for supporters to get to that “so what” phase.

    noel (f22371)

  186. heh, heh, sarcasm is king
    the how dare you sect has no clue

    mg (8cbc69)

  187. Remember, Trump fans. If you reveal what the Donald does, you are evil and must have the flying monkeys of social media set loose on you. But what is revealed? Nothing. Perfection. Stable genius. Anything those never Trumpers would call wrong must be right. The warm darkness felt by the butt gerbil is like the mother’s womb. The smell is just the rotting deep state.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  188. ’Oh. “God help us” is plan B.’
    noel (f22371) — 11/11/2019 @ 6:47 am

    Because God help you if it were left to the electorate.

    Munroe (88940c)

  189. That for that update on state of your ass. I’ll say a prayer for your gerbil.

    Reason magazine has a great article (via Instapundit) that shows that the USPS has had the US taxpayer subsidizing shipments from China, putting small businesses here in the USA at a competitive disadvantage.
    https://reason.com/2019/11/11/american-taxpayers-are-subsidizing-ultra-cheap-shipping-from-china/
    It will be fixed in 2020, but this is the type of thing we elect politicians to find and fix.
    I wish they’d get things like the USMCA done and stop with all the Democrats 24/7 on impeachment, climate change and transgender issues. Go ahead and work on impeachment, but do the rest of your job too. Its not like its that hard to ratify a trade agreement… it’d give Trump a win, but its the American people who win too.

    May your gerbil rest in state forever

    steveg (354706)

  190. Appalled (1a17de) — 11/11/2019 @ 7:43 am

    Because “Trumpkin” doesn’t have the right intellectual zing anymore. “Butt gerbil” takes it to the next level.

    Munroe (88940c)

  191. Thanks for that update on the state of your ass…. sorry for messing up something so important as the state of your physical and mental health. As a furry do you see the vet instead of an MD?

    steveg (354706)

  192. “Trump butt-gerbil”. Sometimes “Trump” being omitted when understood by the context. Originally used in reference to Trump’s ass-kissers and yes-men in the White House, the Cabinet, and Congress, but broadened to include a broader array of … well … Trump butt-gerbils.

    nk (dbc370)

  193. “Because God help you if it were left to the electorate”. Munroe

    It’s in the Constitution. For a reason.

    noel (f22371)

  194. For four years now, most Republicans have looked at this free association…. and see three-dimensional chess. No cure for this type of blindness.

    noel (f22371)

  195. I don’t think its ever been chess, the electorate being clueless for decades deserves every bit of this lawyeritis.

    mg (8cbc69)

  196. Has anybody else noticed that Adam Schiff has the same pursed little mouth that looks like [what butt gerbils go into] as Trump?

    nk (dbc370)

  197. After boost from Perry, backers got huge gas deal in Ukraine
    Two political supporters of U.S. Energy Secretary Rick Perry secured a potentially lucrative oil and gas exploration deal from the Ukrainian government soon after Perry proposed one of the men as an adviser to the country’s new president. ….

    Ukraine awarded the contract to Perry’s supporters little more than a month after the U.S. energy secretary attended Zelenskiy’s May inauguration. In a meeting during that trip, Perry handed the new president a list of people he recommended as energy advisers. One of the four names was his longtime political backer Michael Bleyzer.

    A week later, Bleyzer and his partner Alex Cranberg submitted a bid to drill for oil and gas at a sprawling government-controlled site called Varvynska. They offered millions of dollars less to the Ukrainian government than their only competitor for the drilling rights, according to internal Ukrainian government documents obtained by The Associated Press. …..

    Perry made clear during trips to Kyiv that he was close to Bleyzer, a Ukrainian-American investor and longtime Perry supporter who lives in Houston, and Cranberg, a Republican mega-donor who provided Perry the use of a luxury corporate jet during the energy secretary’s failed 2012 presidential bid. ….

    Perry’s work in Ukraine places him at the center of the House impeachment inquiry into efforts by Trump and his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani to press Zelenskiy to open an investigation into Biden and his son Hunter’s business dealings with Burisma, another Ukrainian gas company. …

    But Perry was at the White House for a key July 10 meeting where senior Ukrainian officials were told continued U.S. support was conditional on Zelenskiy’s government opening investigations into Democrats and Burisma, Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, an aide on Trump’s National Security Council, testified last month. ….

    Rip Murdock (63b565)

  198. They offered millions of dollars less to the Ukrainian government than their only competitor for the drilling rights, which will be more than offset by the hundreds of millions and maybe billions in U.S. foreign aid that Perry will now steer to Ukraine through the Trump administration. Criminal traitor gangster government.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. Perry would say “at least it’s not vulture capitalism“.

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  200. 162 noel (f22371) — 11/10/2019 @ 5:09 pm

    . That isn’t just another couple of guys. It’s the Secretary of State and the Chief of Staff, Haley. What a nuthouse. They tell the UN Secretary that they need her help saving the country from this President and she says…. nah, that just wouldn’t be right, ya know.

    This is from an advance copy of a book that the Washington Post obtained.

    The two people you meantion were previous holders of those jobs: Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly.

    With some of the things they said Trump was doing wrong, she didn’t agree with them. She agreed with Trump on withdrawing from the Paris climate accords and the Iran nuclear deal and moving the United states embassy in in Israel to Jerusalem.

    She didn’t like Trump treating both sides as morally equivalent in Charlottsville, Virginia where a white supremacist used an Islamist tactic of running over people with a car and what shes ays was Trump ceding authroity to Putin (?) in Helsinki and took it up with Trump personally.

    And she didn’t like him calling o 4 members of Cogress to go back where they came from but says she could “appreciate where he’s coming from, from the standpoint of, ‘Don’t bash America, over and over and over again, and not do something to try and fix it.’ ”

    She says she was an outsider growing up, considered neither black nor white, which meant that she was essentially disqualified from a children’s pageant in Bamberg, S.C. that crowned only one white winner and one black winner.

    I’ve got a feeling that there is more to this than we know now.

    Publicity for a book.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  201. “Because God help you if it were left to the electorate”. Munroe

    Congress is directly elected. The president is not.

    If you want to “leave it to the electorate”, shouldn’t we get rid of the electoral college that stands in the way of (and occasionally, as in 2016, thwarts) the electorate’s will? Because God help you if it were left to the electorate.

    It’s in the Constitution. For a reason.

    And if we were content to “leave everything to the electorate”, we wouldn’t need a Bill of Rights or any system of checks and balances.

    Why is it, I wonder, that we don’t allow “the electorate” to outlaw (or mandate) certain forms of worship, proscribe expression of unpopular opinions, ban guns, eliminate trial by jury, give the police free reign, etc?

    Dave (1bb933)

  202. 187. noel (f22371) — 11/11/2019 @ 6:17 am

    So many people joined the Administration because they had general agreement with Trump on the issues. So many have left because they have general agreement that he is unfit for office. When has that EVER happened before?

    The administration of U.S. Grant?

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  203. Didnt approve of Trump’s Helsinki moment?…

    If DCSCA tries to return that book please put on gloves when you take it from him.

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  204. Anniversaries:

    November 4: 40th anniversary of the second takeover of the United States Embassy in Iran (the first was February 14, 1979)

    November 9: 30th anniversary of the end of the Berlin Wall.

    AND

    101st annniversary of the start of the Weimar Republic

    November 10: Devut of Oscar the Grouch on television.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  205. The problem with vaping was the addition of Vitamin E acetate, or tocopheryl acetate, C31H52O3 (for ‘α’ form), also known as Vitamin E oil, which was added to thicken the consistency of the product, almost exclusively to vaping products containing containing marijuana byproducts (THC)

    Vitamin E oil is safe to ingest, and mostly sold as a skin cream, soap, shampoo, shaving gel, and even some aerosol products, and as a dietary supplement, but evidently, not so safe to inhale. It is the ester of acetic acid and tocopherol (vitamin E).

    They don’t know exactly what goes wrong when it is inhaled, or when a lot of it is inhaled, but it is a little like honey and very sticky, and maybe coats the lungs.

    They real;y already knew this by September, but now something was published:

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/vitamin-e-acetate-found-in-all-lung-fluid-samples-tested-from-injured-vapers

    But the regulators are still not ready to admit that that’s all it is.

    Vitamin E oil was previously not considered a hazardous product.

    In fact this could have been known long before. There actually was already some earlier published work that indicated it interferes with normal lung function when inhaled.

    I wouldn’t call it toxic. It’s not inherently toxic, and doesn’t seem to lead to a problem when swallowed.

    https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/tocoph122013TAR.pdf

    By the way, different compounds. which have different effects, are all sold under the name Vitamin E. Alpha and gamma tocopherol can even have opposite effects.

    https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/vitamin-e-may-harm-or-help-your-lung-function/

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  206. Wanna try Veterans Day, too, Sammy? It used to be Armistice Day, to celebrate the end of WWI.

    nk (dbc370)

  207. These dumb little sh!ts, Sammy, their pediatricians told their parents not to give them mineral oil or cod liver oil because they might inhale them accidentally and get aspiration pneumonias. Now they’re deliberately inhaling it to look cool in high school.

    nk (dbc370)

  208. The House Intelligence Committee has withdrawn its subpoena for Bolton’s deputy Charles Kupperman (they did it last week) and now that Mick Mulvaney has joined his lawsuit, will they withdraw his subpoena too>

    They either don’t want a ruling as to whether or not they really have subpoena power that can overcome executive privilege or they don’t want to hear from Bolton, because he would spoil the narrative.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  209. I was planning to mention this before so I hadn’t gotten up to November 11. November 9 is also the 71st anniversary of what was called afterwards Kristallnacht.

    Yes, November 11 is Veterans Day, (renamed from Armistice Day in 1955) and also a form of April Fools Day in Germany, that pre-dates World War I.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  210. 212. nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2019 @ 11:07 am

    Now they’re deliberately inhaling it to look cool in high school.

    Nobody told them there was an added ingredient in the black market vaping products. The people who added it probably didn’t understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  211. #8, #28, #34, #75, #167 re: Nikki Haley…

    I’d vote for her before any other politician right now.

    She’s not perfect. What potential candidates are perfect? Or, even a better choice than Haley?

    The facts are…future GOP politicians cannot disregard Trump supporters, and Haley has done a great job in threading that needle. She making overtures towards Trumpist, while at the same time signaling that she’s “establishment friendly”.

    That’s a savvy, and pragmatic political strategy.

    whembly (51f28e)

  212. The facts are…future GOP politicians cannot disregard Trump supporters, and Haley has done a great job in threading that needle. She making overtures towards Trumpist, while at the same time signaling that she’s “establishment friendly”.

    That’s a savvy, and pragmatic political strategy.

    no doubt she is a really savvy politician. her lack of integrity really helps a lot with that. Obama was the same way. tried to be a blank slate onto which you paint your own preferences.

    don’t bet on her to balance any budgets or fight any tough fights. savvy politicians are in it for themselves, not you or me.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  213. From the book “The Reality Bubble” by Ziya Tong (Penguin Random House, 2019) page 5:

    https://www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/568675/the-reality-bubble-by-ziya-tong/9780735235564/excerpt

    It’s the reason why, in the United Kingdom, one in three young adults don’t know that eggs come from chickens, a third of children believe that cheese comes from plants, and a whopping 40 percent of youth have no idea that milk comes from cows.

    Probably the cheese question is was multiple choice, and about 1/3 of the children picked that cheese comes from plants.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  214. The facts are…future GOP politicians cannot disregard Trump supporters, and Haley has done a great job in threading that needle. She making overtures towards Trumpist, while at the same time signaling that she’s “establishment friendly”.

    That’s a savvy, and pragmatic political strategy.

    no doubt she is a really savvy politician. her lack of integrity really helps a lot with that. Obama was the same way. tried to be a blank slate onto which you paint your own preferences.

    don’t bet on her to balance any budgets or fight any tough fights. savvy politicians are in it for themselves, not you or me.

    Dustin (d42b09) — 11/11/2019 @ 11:24 am

    I disagree with you. She’s not another Trump or another Obama.

    As for balancing any budgets… that’s not on any President to do. All of that must start in Congress. All Presidents *could* do is not sign the budgets that Congress passed… but, that’s political suicide and a bit asinine to expect the Presidents to do that regularly to force Congress to do the hard work. Congress must come to the realization themselves.

    As for fighting any tough fights? You might want to read up on what she’s done as SC Governor.

    whembly (51f28e)

  215. “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country,” Haley wrote.

    Confided is Haley’s word. She seems lame.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  216. As for balancing any budgets… that’s not on any President to do. All of that must start in Congress.

    Who submits the budget again?

    Dustin (d42b09)

  217. How many people have to come running out of that smoldering White House before you believe that there is a fire? How many of his own upper level officials have to point to Trump and call him “crazy” or an “idiot” or a “danger to the country”? You’d rather keep believing in some stupid “deep state” than acknowledge the obvious?

    noel (f22371)

  218. Trump tweet: “The lawyer for the Whistleblower takes away all credibility from this big Impeachment Scam! It should be ended and the Whistleblower, his lawyer and Corrupt politician Schiff should be investigared for fraud!”

    See. Crazy.

    noel (f22371)

  219. “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country,” Haley wrote.

    Confided is Haley’s word. She seems lame.

    Dustin (d42b09) — 11/11/2019 @ 11:43 am

    And? That actually supports the many unnamed sources that staff were trying to mitigate the worst aspects of Trump’s actions.

    As for balancing any budgets… that’s not on any President to do. All of that must start in Congress.

    Who submits the budget again?

    Dustin (d42b09) — 11/11/2019 @ 11:43 am

    Last time Congress passed a President’s budget was…when?

    whembly (51f28e)

  220. It doesn’t make sense. What he tweets. No basis in law or logic. He just engages in free association. Random spewing.

    noel (f22371)

  221. Nobody can balance the budget. It’s crazy and totally unnecessary as well. Right now for every $5 sent to Washington, the public gets $6 back.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  222. It may not have a basis in law but it does, he thinks, have a basis in logic – that’s why he tweets it. The logic is based on ignorance. Even if there is a big fraud going on, it’s not that kind of fraud. Maybe he and other political candidates should be arrested for fraud for lying to the public?

    He really has a crazy defense, when he could have a better one. He’s not explaining what he is talking about, and he has to exaggerate. What doctored transcripts? Redacted maybe I don’t know. He;s right about not getting to see the documents and not having a lawyer present. I don’t know why Schiff needs to testify about why he made up a version of the call and read it to all. One person who heard it live apparently wasn’t fooled.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  223. @208. Kid gloves: ‘Catch him if you can;’ Nikki was right to slap the monkey; go back and revisit my mulitple comments regarding Trump and Helsinki, ULB.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  224. @211. Wanna try November 11? My grandfather told me it use to be called that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  225. @204. More like ‘oops’ – as the secessionist is known to say.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  226. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/10/21/my-years-in-the-florida-shuffle-of-drug-addiction

    In he printed magazine (dated Oct 28) entitled:

    PERSONAL HISTORY

    THE FLORIDA SHUFFLE

    Cycling through relapse and recovery under a blazing sun

    By COLTON WOOTEN

    How it actually profitable NOT to cure drug addicts.

    There used to be something called Sober Living which worked, but…

    The Affordable Care Act, which became law in 2010, has changed the landscape of addiction treatment, requiring that insurance companies cover services for substance-use disorders. (It also allows children to remain on their parents’ policies until the age of twenty-six.) Building on the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act, of 2008, the A.C.A. prohibits insurers from enforcing stricter benefit limitations than those applied to manifestly physical ailments, such as a knee replacement or cataract surgery. It also prohibits limiting treatment on the basis of a preëxisting condition. Roughly sixty-two million people received new access to mental-health and behavioral care. Today, addiction itself doesn’t count as a preëxisting condition, but a relapse can make it one…

    …The A.C.A. made it easier for the owners of treatment centers to bill insurers, and rehab, suddenly democratic, fell within reach of the well-insured middle class and its children…

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  227. If George Soros has his way Patrick is going to have George Gascon for a boss in 2020.
    May God have mercy on his soul

    Steveg (45770e)

  228. Whembly, if someone is telling you something they say someone else confided in them, that person can’t really be trusted. We all know that many patriotic members of Trump’s administration have left it in disgust over his many ethical mistakes. Haley is making a lot of play for the news cycle and that’s fine, but she’s very unimpressive as a leader.

    And you’re wrong to claim the president has no say whatsoever and no leadership voice in the budget process. Bush 43, Obama, and Trump have a tremendous share of the blame for our debt. Now, had they indeed proposed balanced budgets and failed to convince congress that would be different. It’s called leadership.

    Dustin (63ba79)

  229. Hiring is so standardized, that there are a lot of people who can;t find work, at least in the ay they are told to look, even tough they (probably) do have the skills:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/business/economy/long-term-unemployed.html

    After more than a decade as production manager at a small advertising agency, Ms. Ward was let go after the firm lost a major account. Over the last three and a half years, she has worked temporary stints, and bolstered her skills by taking a project-management course at a nearby college. But she has not been able to find a steady, full-time job.

    Obama wanted to make it illegal to discriminate against the long term unemployed

    https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/us/politics/obama-proposes-adding-unemployed-to-protected-status.html

    But that was dropped because it’s impossible to determine, and then there was the idea of a tax credit. That was actually enacted.

    Employers were exempt from paying the 6.2 percent Social Security tax on wages paid to workers who had been hired February 3, 2010, and January 1, 2011, and you must have been unemployed during the 60 days prior to starting work, or worked fewer than 40 hours for someone else during the 60 day period provided they stayed employed there for 52 weeks.

    I think something more permanent was proposed later but they wanted to make companies and employees jump trough too many hoops, not wanting to “waste” the tax credit, so it was a non-starter.

    give some kind of tax credit for hiring the long term unemployed, but then he wanted to make companies and workers jump through hoops to get it. That will not work.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  230. A balanced budget is not practical, as well as unnecessary. The United States federal government can get away with running deficits for over 85 years, almost every year. The Dollar is the world’s reserve currency.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  231. Son of Weather People becomes district Attorney of San Francisco

    https://nypost.com/2019/11/11/chesa-boudin-son-of-infamous-brinks-truck-robbers-elected-san-francisco-da

    His parents did the Brink’s robbery ten years after their other activities. Now he’s more peaceful, but what about his ideology?

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  232. #233

    Whembly, if someone is telling you something they say someone else confided in them, that person can’t really be trusted. We all know that many patriotic members of Trump’s administration have left it in disgust over his many ethical mistakes. Haley is making a lot of play for the news cycle and that’s fine, but she’s very unimpressive as a leader.

    Lets agree to disagree.

    For one, I’m glad she aired this laundry out and that made me feel better that Kelly and Rex were forced out. Mattis (and Bolton) did the right thing to resign when they disagreed with the direction of Trump’s leadership.

    Ultimately, her position is constitutionally kosher, as it is the President, and only the President who dictates foreign policy directions. It is completely wrong for Tillerson and Kelly to undermine the President.

    And you’re wrong to claim the president has no say whatsoever and no leadership voice in the budget process. Bush 43, Obama, and Trump have a tremendous share of the blame for our debt. Now, had they indeed proposed balanced budgets and failed to convince congress that would be different. It’s called leadership.

    Dustin (63ba79) — 11/11/2019 @ 12:59 pm

    Of course they share some of the blame, but first and foremost most of the blame falls on Congress.
    They have the power of the purse after all…

    It starts with Congress and I don’t think any President (even a charismatic PERFECT President) will not be able to herd this cat across the rubicon. It’s going to take some catastrophic event to push Congress to act… and only then.

    Conservatives who’ve banged on that spending crisis drum (*waves at our host*) will have their I told you so moments…which even then is only a Pyrrhic victory.

    whembly (51f28e)

  233. @213
    They either don’t want a ruling as to whether or not they really have subpoena power that can overcome executive privilege or they don’t want to hear from Bolton, because he would spoil the narrative.

    The Kupperman subpoena was withdrawn because Don McGhan’s subpoena is farther along in the judicial process and covers the same issues.

    Rip Murdock (769249)

  234. Bolton Rejects Legal Alliance With Mulvaney

    A long-simmering feud within the White House broke into the open on Monday as a lawyer for John R. Bolton, President Trump’s former national security adviser, filed a motion trying to keep Mick Mulvaney, the president’s acting chief of staff, from joining a lawsuit over impeachment testimony.

    Mr. Bolton’s lawyer argued in court papers that Mr. Mulvaney should not be allowed to jump into the existing lawsuit as a plaintiff because his interests are significantly different. But the legal schism underscored a broader rift between Mr. Mulvaney, who facilitated Mr. Trump’s effort to pressure Ukraine for damaging information about Democrats, and Mr. Bolton, who tried to resist it.

    The lawsuit, filed by Charles M. Kupperman, a former deputy national security adviser and longtime associate of Mr. Bolton’s, asked a court to decide whether Mr. Kupperman should obey the president’s dictate or a House subpoena. While not technically a party to the lawsuit, Mr. Bolton, who left his post in September after clashing with Mr. Trump, is represented by the same lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, and is taking the same position as Mr. Kupperman in waiting for the court to decide whether he should testify or not. ….

    Not only did the motion filed Monday by Mr. Bolton’s camp seek to keep Mr. Mulvaney out of the lawsuit, it even advanced an argument that the acting chief of staff may have to testify before House impeachment investigators. The motion noted that in a briefing with reporters last month, Mr. Mulvaney appeared “to admit that there was a quid pro quo” before later trying to take back the admission, meaning that he might not have the right to defy a House subpoena since he had already discussed the matter in public.

    “Accordingly, there is a serious question as to whether Mulvaney waived the absolute testimonial immunity claimed by the president,” the motion said.

    Rip Murdock (769249)

  235. Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers Psalm 1
    Dustin (d42b09) — 11/11/2019 @ 4:52 am

    Amen.

    felipe (023cc9)

  236. Erick Erickson channels Kevin M on Nikki Haley

    It is really easy for pundits and the Twitterarti to demand Nikki Haley do exactly as they want. But they have the luxury of not having to live with the consequences. Personally, after Trump is gone, I’d like to have people like Nikki Haley around and in leadership positions.

    Yes, that all sounds very reasonable. Until…

    And I have no idea why an unelected person should speak up when congressional Republicans will not.

    (*raises hand*)

    Um…because it’s the right thing to do?

    After rehearsing many of the arguments that regularly come up here, Erickson concludes:

    Those of you who want to return to the closest thing to normalcy we might can get should probably consider that. You cart all the good people off to the guillotine of pundit purity and pretty soon you’re left with the far left, Donald Trump’s family, and Matt Gaetz as his political heirs.

    I claim that if you defend manifest corruption, gross malfeasance and shameless dishonesty in the name of political expediency you are not a good person; you are a coward willing to countenance any harm to America if it can be turned to your own advantage.

    There is no reason – in principle – why you need to defend criminality in order to support the policy positions associated with Trump. Indeed, any rational analysis would conclude that Spanky is the single most effective obstacle to the success of those policies.

    Rather than defending the indefensible, the politically and ethically viable path for Haley would have been to point out that Trump’s incompetence and immorality have betrayed the cause of those who supported him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  237. Patrick once related some advice he gave his daughter. I wish I could remember the exact wording, because it was beautiful, but the gist of it was: “Courage isn’t doing the right thing when it’s easy for you; courage is doing the right thing when it’s hard.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  238. ”Why is it, I wonder, that we don’t allow “the electorate” to outlaw (or mandate) certain forms of worship, proscribe expression of unpopular opinions, ban guns, eliminate trial by jury, give the police free reign, etc?”
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/11/2019 @ 10:13 am

    The Founders intended impeachment to be Plan A, “God help us” as Plan B, and elections somewhere around Plan Q or R.

    Yes, exactly like freedom of speech.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  239. Of course they share some of the blame, but first and foremost most of the blame falls on Congress.
    They have the power of the purse after all…

    It starts with Congress and I don’t think any President (even a charismatic PERFECT President) will not be able to herd this cat across the rubicon. It’s going to take some catastrophic event to push Congress to act… and only then.

    Conservatives who’ve banged on that spending crisis drum (*waves at our host*) will have their I told you so moments…which even then is only a Pyrrhic victory.

    whembly (51f28e) — 11/11/2019 @ 1:41 pm

    I agree to some extent. Certainly we aren’t balancing this budget any time soon. But I disagree with Sammy as to the importance. A little interest rate change would be a big problem for the country. At least pushing for a balanced budget would be a far different conversation than pushing for all these additional projects and programs. Leadership matters, even if the house has the power of the purse.

    I hope we don’t have the ‘i told you so’ but it won’t matter. the same guys will blame the same guys. We have lost something valuable in the past few years.

    Dustin (46d24c)

  240. Dustin,

    Clearly you think that a career politician should trash their career and burn all their bridges in order to satisfy the feelings of her party’s opposition. When they don’t you call them names and assert they have no integrity.

    I respectfully disagree. It is integrity to stand with one’s party when times are tough, not to cut and run like some. It is integrity to have served — and served well — in an administration with which you have qualms.

    You stand with the summertime soldiers. I stand with those that stay through the winter. I guess it’s all what you value — self or team.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  241. It is integrity to stand with one’s party when times are tough

    We definitely disagree. Standing with misconduct, deception, and corruption because of partisanship, and the expectation that people should is actually why the career politicians are so bad. They both hope that fear of the other party will justify this loyalty during misconduct or poor performance. They both suck more as a result. That increases the fear of the other party (imagine just how crazy it would seem for a liberal democrat to vote for Trump because of Biden’s corruption, for example).

    It’s this loyalty you are calling ‘integrity’ that caused the problem in the first place.

    At least you call it ‘team’ and not country. Indeed partisanship is betrayal of country, in my opinion.

    I happily ‘cut and run’ from the GOP. Proudly. And I doubt I’ll ever come back. Republicans will tell me I have made myself irrelevant. That’s why I’ll spite them with a counter partisan vote just to double the impact. But I have no illusions that this is going to save the day. Maybe enough people will give up on partisanship. Ironically, people refusing to stick with the ‘team’ would force the team to be more deserving. Imagine a GOP or Democratic party where the politicians could not survive while lying.

    Dustin (46d24c)

  242. It is integrity to stand with one’s party when times are tough, not to cut and run like some.

    You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think means.

    So the Democrats who stuck to their party’s line during the Kavanaugh confirmation, despite the underhanded tactics, despite the shameless dishonesty and despite the irremediable damage to the reputation of an honorable man, were shining examples of this same “integrity” that you’re so proud of?

    Dave (d1e5e7)

  243. Patrick once related some advice he gave his daughter. I wish I could remember the exact wording, because it was beautiful, but the gist of it was: “Courage isn’t doing the right thing when it’s easy for you; courage is doing the right thing when it’s hard.”

    I went looking for that, and got annoyed all over again about a constant drumbeat of lies that certain stalkerish cretins have been putting out there for 11 years.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  244. Dave has the better of the argument here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  245. Dustin,

    Clearly you think that a career politician should trash their career and burn all their bridges in order to satisfy the feelings of her party’s opposition. When they don’t you call them names and assert they have no integrity.

    That is a ridiculous characterization, Kevin, and it’s insulting of you to try to pin such bullshit on Dustin.

    “Clearly” he thinks no such thing. You’re flailing about, apparently to justify “standing with” a man who has no principles and whom you know has no principles. I’ll thank you not to smear good people in your rather pathetic attempt at self-justification.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  246. @241. ‘I claim if you defend manifest corruption, gross malfeasance and shameless dishonesty in the name of political expediency then you are not a good person; you are a coward willing to countenance any harm to America if it can be turned to your own advantage …’

    Golly.

    Roger Ailes one can understand.

    But John Wayne ‘not a good person’?!?! Or Shirley Temple ‘not a good-ship-lollypop-person’?!?!?

    You really did miss the Nixon years.

    Start w/Bill Buckley and his National Review; or Billy Graham… or the early days of Rove, Rummy and Cheney; or RNC head Pappy Bush…and work your way through the GOP Congressional critters of the times and then condemn the 26% or so of Americans who backed The Big Dick to the end— and after the end.

    https://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/celebrities-for-nixon/

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  247. 245…for someone who couldn’t stand the mention of one poster in particular, you do share his steadfastness in remaining in party no matter what the circumstances.

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  248. “Clearly” he thinks no such thing. You’re flailing about, apparently to justify “standing with” a man who has no principles and whom you know has no principles. I’ll thank you not to smear good people in your rather pathetic attempt at self-justification.

    Let’s say that someone works professionally for a large corporation that is just about the only employer in their chosen field. Or perhaps they work for a government bureau like the FBI.

    The person in charge is, in their opinion and the opinion of many, a jerk. He is driving the organization into ruin. Does he say this? Does he quit? Or does he keep his head down and hope that things change? If pressed does he give the least lip service possible to the current regime, knowing that it has a thin skin and he likes his job?

    Consider that this is where the professional politician is. They have to suffer through stuff where you or I have the luxury of punting, but that she does so — to me — is an example of integrity, of a belief in the larger system, not one of cowardice. I guess it can be hard to tell the difference from some viewpoints.

    Dustin often sees things in black and white. You are against Trump or you are with him, and no grey area, such as party loyalty or wanting to work within the system, seems meaningful to him. That how I read his posts over these last several years. Every so often I react, not often. This is one of those times.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  249. Patterico, thank you for your comments here. Truly.

    Simon Jester (d7c864)

  250. I don’t stand with Trump and if he had a stroke I’d be relieved. If you find some post of mine where I suggest that he is the best, or even a good, man for the job I will eat my keyboard.

    If he were impeached and I had a vote as a Senator, I’d gladly vote AYE if the charges were “unfit” or “brings disrepute upon”). Currently they aren’t and I would not be willing to vote for conviction on charges whose precedent would handcuff current presidents.

    The current charges are shallow, and to say that a President cannot make deals with foreign officials, even shady ones, is something that I’m not prepared to cast in stone. Something that would be a precedent next time a President is banging the staff — like “unfit/disrepute” — would get my vote in an instant.

    We have allowed each of the last 3 Presidents to openly do things far worse than Trump is accused of (e.g. bugging every citizen, fighting wars without congressional approval, spending billions without congressional allocation). For Nikki Haley to say that the current charges aren’t enough is not sucking up to Trump, it’s stating what many consider obvious. Charge him with what is is manifestly guilty of — being a cretin, a boor and a disgrace, and stop trying to make up sh1t. It doesn’t HAVE to be a crime.

    But I guess we are all locked into a game of gotcha, and Trump and the GOP are indistinguishable to some. I want Trump gone because I want the GOP to succeed. But killing the GOP to get Trump isn’t the same thing.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  251. Dave, what exactly has Donald Trump done to harm your own daily life? The market is booming, 401Ks are up, unemployment lowest in decades; he cut business and personal taxes, made an effort to get long term deadbeat allies to start paying some of their own way, decided the Middle East is no longer a toilet to keep pouring trillions into; weaponized tariffs and still manages to entertain you 24/7 by beclowning himself w/dictators and typing stupid tweets around the clock.

    It’s not like he sent 31,000 Americans to their deaths in Vietnam with PP in hand- along with his own notes- knowing the futility of it all– something to remember this day.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  252. * handcuff FUTURE presidents.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  253. Tonight’s drinking game: CNN has Joey Bee trapped in a town hall in Iowa… Do a shot every time he say ‘folks’ and ‘here’s the deal.’

    Waitin’ for a question bout plagiarism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  254. I disagree with Kevin only in that I refuse to ascribe noble motives to a career politician.
    At the same time, I disagree with Dustin for the same reason. We should not expect much more than self-interest, usually petty but sometimes grandiose (they can dream too), from a career politician.

    Right now, the only thing we know for sure is that Nikki Haley is peddling her book. We don’t know what other angles she’s playing, but it’s a fair bet, knowing her record, that they all involve what’s best for Nikki Haley. It may even turn out that that what’s good for GM Nikki Haley is good for America and what’s good for America is good for GM Nikki Haley.

    nk (dbc370)

  255. that that

    nk (dbc370)

  256. Look at what Nikki Haley said, and try to set aside your feelings about Trump.

    She said that the conversation that Trump had with the Ukraine president do not rise to an impeachable offense. And they don’t. Impeachment (and conviction, virtual or otherwise) sets hard boundaries for future presidents. Covering up active felonies committed by your minions, like burglary, is impeachable. Lying about sex is not impeachable.

    Is wheedling a political advantage out of a foreign leader impeachable? Should it be? Are future Presidents going to want, or allow, others to vet their calls and parse every word, knowing that some of those people hate them? I doubt it, and it will make all such calls vapid in the extreme. Not in our interest.

    I believe in process. In precedent. “The forms must be obeyed.” It’s a principle with me. I really dislike abusing the system to get a result that leaves the process shattered. Convicting Trump on the Ukrainian charges would be a perversion of the Constitution, and would damage the country.

    That people call this attitude “unprincipled” offends me.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  257. @259. Trump’s people will simply run the numbers. If Nikki can corral the straying suburban woman vote better than Mikey can as an evangelical then it’ll be Trump/Haley 2020. Evangelicals got about as much as they could expect from Trump; Jerusalem etc., Nikki keeps good relations as well. She’s made her move; see what the situation is after the Senate trial– if it happens. If it comes down to the suburban women vote. This guy changes personnel like underwear so dumping Pence wouldn’t be a surprise.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  258. And yes, nk, I agree that Nikki is looking out for herself. You will not that she has not chimed in on Trump’s handling of Syria, Russia, Ukraine, North Korea, NATO, etc. She could have said lots, but did not. At best she has said that “the president is in charge, and she was shocked that others were working against him.” She did not say that Trump is a great man, or that he was honest or that his policies were all great, just that he was in charge.

    So, what did she say about impeachment? She said something that I believe is factual (Trump’s call to the Ukraine is not, itself, impeachable). She did not say that it was a good idea, which it wasn’t. Or that it reflected well on Trump, which it didn’t.

    Of course, if Trump should be removed, and there’s a scramble for the nomination, she’s all set has having not put the knife in, which will be important.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  259. Shorter: “So are they all, all honorable men.”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  260. Trump’s people will simply run the numbers. If Nikki can corral the straying suburban woman vote better than Mikey can as an evangelical then it’ll be Trump/Haley 2020.

    Why would she do that? The ONLY way that a Republican wins in 2024 is if Trump is not re-elected. If we go through 8 years of this (we are not even though 3), the Democrats could run the corpse of Teddy Kennedy and win.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  261. As I’ve said before, if it were merely a matter of policy differences, I would have stayed inside the tent and tried to fight the good fight, as Beldar and Kevin have suggested at various points.

    But the biggest problem with Trump is not his policies (although I disagree with many of them), it is his immorality, degeneracy and unfitness. And there is no reason anybody should be defending those. For the GOP to regain its soul, somebody who is sympathetic to his policy goals (and thus credible to his base) needs to speak out and condemn his dishonesty, ignorance and venality. He is a liability to the causes he claims to champion, and he provides more proof of this every day.

    If Haley had any integrity, she could have been an effective bearer of this message, and started cauterizing the damage of the past three years. Instead, she has chosen to cower with the other 90% of the party as Trump drags them even further into the abyss.

    Dave (1bb933)

  262. @255 I’m afraid that I have exactly the opposite response. I’d rather set a chilling precedent against using the presidency to extort a foreign country for personal benefit than consensual banging, even if it is adulterous, gross consensual banging.

    Nic (896fdf)

  263. [channeling Happyfeet]

    Darling Nikki

    I knew a girl named Nikki
    I guess you could say she wasn’t too clean
    I met her in a hotel lobby
    Masticating on a magazine
    She said how’d you like to meet my boss?
    And I could not resist when I saw little Nikki floss

    She took me to the White House
    And I just couldn’t believe my eyes
    There were so many butt-gerbils
    And every single one said Hi!
    She said buy my book! They got in line
    The lights went out
    And Nikki started to sign

    felipe (023cc9)

  264. Hey NIkki you’re fine
    you’re so fine you blow my mind – Hey NIkki!

    felipe (023cc9)

  265. What are their angles? This might not merely be Astroturf but the thin pool table-like rug from Philly’s old Veterans Stadium? http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/11/20948317/alt-right-donald-trump-jr-conservative-tpusa-yaf-racism-antisemitism

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  266. Big Black SUV set to the cadence of Little Red Corvette would be far more fitting.

    urbanleftbehind (58d5ae)

  267. U.S. judge rules Trump suit to block House from getting his state tax returns belongs in court in N.Y.

    A federal judge in Washington dismissed President Trump’s lawsuit seeking to block the House Ways and Means Committee from using a recently enacted New York law to request his state tax returns, saying that for now the case belongs before a judge in New York. …..

    The House panel, chaired by Rep. Richard E. Neal (D-Mass.), has not requested Trump’s state returns. Trump’s attorneys filed the lawsuit in July preemptively, arguing that without an emergency court order blocking a congressional request, his New York returns might be disclosed before the president’s opposition could be heard in court. ….

    On Monday, Nichols concluded the latter, dismissing the New York state defendants and giving Trump the option of refiling his lawsuit against them in his home state, effectively setting the seven-day clock running, if the House were to ask for Trump’s returns.

    “Based on the current allegations, Mr. Trump has not met his burden of establishing [the court’s] personal jurisdiction over either of the New York Defendants,” the state’s tax commissioner and attorney general, Nichols wrote in a 19-page opinion. ….

    Rip Murdock (980784)

  268. ”I’d rather set a chilling precedent against using the presidency to extort a foreign country for personal benefit than consensual banging, even if it is adulterous, gross consensual banging.”
    Nic (896fdf) — 11/11/2019 @ 7:01 pm

    That you feel compelled to ludicrously misrepresent both scenarios is indicative of how weak the case is.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  269. Convicting Trump on the Ukrainian charges would be a perversion of the Constitution, and would damage the country.

    I am directly opposite you on this.

    I want the Presidency hamstrung. I want the President to have justify his every action and word. It’s a very necessary step to restoring the balance envisaged by the Constitution. The President and the Executive Branch should have as little flexibility as possible.

    There’s also this. The President is our employee, hired for a four year contract that can be potentially renewed once for another four years. Why shouldn’t you, the employer, know everything the employee is doing in the course of performing his job?

    Kishnevi (2c05aa)

  270. @265. Because…’Chris Christie’– go for the brass ring when it’s there; wait and you’re screwed. 4 years is a lifetime and some other twit will show up. Besides, as VEEP the experience positions her to succeed Trump. America survived 8 years of Reagan; it’ll manage jut fine through 8 years of Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  271. Haley’s Comet
    Texas Tornados, Dave Alvin, Tom Russell H@ppyf33t

    “Do you know who I am?” said Nikki Haley
    In a pancake house down near the Potomac
    Well the waitor said, “I don’t know you from diddley
    To me you look more like a tired old woman”

    Well she walked all alone down on Main street
    Was a hot wind blowin’ up from the south
    There were two eye’s starin’ in a bookstore window
    A Champagn bottle lifted to her mouth

    There was no moon shinin’ on the Potomac
    The display of books made her frown
    Her title was hidden on the shelf below
    When Haley’s comet hit the ground

    felipe (023cc9)

  272. She didn’t like Trump treating both sides as morally equivalent in Charlottsville, Virginia where a white supremacist used an Islamist tactic of running over people with a car and what shes ays was Trump ceding authroity to Putin (?) in Helsinki and took it up with Trump personally.

    Exactly. She joined in the all the hysteria and establishment virtue signalling and absurdly painted Antifa – a bunch of left-wing communist thugs who beat up people – as angels. Trump had the decency to point out both sides contained bad elements, and just because somebody on one side was bad, doesn’t mean the other side is all good. Haley is simply an Establishment hack and would be push the same policies as Yeb! if she ever got elected.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  273. 275
    Ambassador Haley has no whale like resemblance to be ridiculed while sitting on a beach chair.

    Kishnevi (2c05aa)

  274. @273 The comment I was referencing said, “Something that would be a precedent next time a President is banging the staff.” Which is pretty clearly a Clinton reference and Lewinsky has always maintained it was consensual and is a sentiment that Kevin has expressed in the past.

    As far as misrepresenting what happened between Trump and the Ukraine, “Nice country you have there, it would be too bad if the Russians invaded.” If it looks like extortion and it walks like extortion and it quacks like extortion, then it’s extortion. I’m not going to pretty it up and pretend that that isn’t what it is.

    The President attempted to hold up aid that would allow Ukraine to defend themselves from Vladdy the Terrible because he wanted them to investigate the son of one of his political rival so that his campaign would be in a stronger position. Presidential power for personal benefit. It’s a duck.

    @274 Yes. Congress has been ceding it’s power to the executive Branch for far too long because they were afraid to face consequences for doing something that could be unpopular. And yes, the President is not the Monarch.

    Nic (896fdf)

  275. Whew! Glad I got that out of my system.

    felipe (023cc9)

  276. For the GOP to regain its soul, somebody who is sympathetic to his policy goals (and thus credible to his base) needs to speak out and condemn his dishonesty, ignorance and venality

    There’s a problem with that approach. A significant portion of his base support him because of his dishonesty, ignorance, and venality.

    Kishnevi (2c05aa)

  277. . Trump had the decency to point out both sides contained bad elements

    That’s completely wrong. Trump said both sides had good people. Then instead of admitting he got the facts wrong at first, he repeated the claim. The first time he called neoNazis good people by mistake, but then he repeated it knowing he was calling neoNazis good people.

    Kishnevi (2c05aa)

  278. Congress has been ceding it’s power to the executive Branch for far too long because they were afraid to face consequences for doing something that could be unpopular.

    I would say it’s because they spend 50% of their working time raising money for their re-election, 40% glad-handing their political patrons and important constituents, and 10% on the country’s business, but I respect differing viewpoints and I can see how it could be because they’re cowardly weasels too. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  279. @266. “…immorality, degeneracy, unfitness… dishonesty, ignorance, venality…”

    The Catholic church or the GOP?!?!? This is a country that ‘loved to hate’ JR Ewing for 12 years, Dave. Trump will do 8.

    He knows the audience: he’s entertaining.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  280. JR like all likeable villians had some redeeming features, such as intelligence.

    Trump has none.

    JR’s shenanigans had no results in real life.
    Trump’s do.

    Kishnevi (2c05aa)

  281. @283 I mean, your viewpoint is valid as well.

    Nic (896fdf)

  282. But the biggest problem with Trump is not his policies (although I disagree with many of them), it is his immorality, degeneracy and unfitness.

    My problem with the impeachment effort is that it isn’t aimed at those things. Those animate the effort, but they attempt to find, or create, actual crimes (and those must resonate politically).

    In theory, you could impeach Trump for wearing a toupee. But that would mean that no future president could wear a toupee. Similarly most of the crimes presented so far (I agree that obstruction would pass my “precedence” test, but it’s not sexy enough, and Clinton skated on that anyway).

    So, impeach him for what he IS — incompetent, STOOPID, boorish and a lying sack of sh1t. Not for spitting on the sidewalk.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  283. @285. Except they did: ratings.

    Something Trump crows about all too well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  284. It’s all fun and games until somebody loses a country.

    nk (dbc370)

  285. Re: 287 -and with that, 2-term (reelected in 2018) Gov. Tom Wolf D-PA, just said…”so there’s a chance!”

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  286. 213. 238. Rip Murdock (769249) — 11/11/2019 @ 1:42 pm

    The Kupperman subpoena was withdrawn because Don McGhan’s subpoena is farther along in the judicial process and covers the same issues.

    ???

    What? They need to save money on legal bills or conserve their staff’s time?

    Kupperman was asking for a ruling on whether or not they had a right to subpoena him. The withdrawal of the subpoena, and the decision not to subpoena Bolton, could be explained as an attempt to render he case moot.

    The next question is why. A desire not to settle the issue (either way – remember there might one day by a Republican committee subpoenaing aides to a Democratic president) or because they don’t want to hear from Bolton because he might make Trump’s conduct look less egregious? (They already have a picture, and it doesn’t quite fit the narrative Schiff et al are pushing, which omits any kind of idea that Trump was sincere, either in not wanting to give aid to Ukraine, or as too whether these proposed investigations had merit.)

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  287. I disagree with Kevin only in that I refuse to ascribe noble motives to a career politician.
    At the same time, I disagree with Dustin for the same reason. We should not expect much more than self-interest, usually petty but sometimes grandiose (they can dream too), from a career politician.

    Right now, the only thing we know for sure is that Nikki Haley is peddling her book. We don’t know what other angles she’s playing, but it’s a fair bet, knowing her record, that they all involve what’s best for Nikki Haley. It may even turn out that that what’s good for GM Nikki Haley is good for America and what’s good for America is good for GM Nikki Haley.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2019 @ 6:19 pm

    This is well said, and though I do expect more from people (all people, politicians, crack-heads, priests, doctors, cops), I know that people often morally fail. It’s not that I’m hopelessly naive. It’s that I recognize accepting moral failure, even in politicians, is lowering the bar. It exacerbates this partisanship (which also lowers the bar). It’s a recursive cycle.

    We all know that Trump’s conduct has been terrible. The list is tiresome. But it’s not in debate. No honest person says he is a worthy president. The GOP pretending he is, for the sake of the team, is wrong. Simple as that.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  288. Rip Murdock @239. It’s good what you quoted from the New York Times article, but there are important things I gleaned from that article that you missed or didn’t quote

    Mulvaney joining the lawsuit took Bolton and Kupperman by surprise and was without their permission, and the motion they made before the judge argued that the reason their interests (sounds like maybe this should be their arguments and their goals) were different is that they took no position on whether or not they should comply with the subpoena while Mulvaney was taking the White House side, and in fact his lawyer he was trying to sue House Democrats.

    Mr. Mulvaney’s effort to join the lawsuit late Friday night stunned many involved in the impeachment debate because he still works for the president. Mr. Mulvaney did not ask Mr. Bolton or Mr. Kupperman for permission to join the lawsuit, nor did he give them a heads up. Mr. Bolton and his team considered it an outrageous move because they were on opposite sides of the Ukraine fight and did not want their lawsuit polluted with Mr. Mulvaney.

    Did they use the word “polluted?”

    The judge (Richard J. Leon) indicated, at the end of a conference call whose transcript was released by the court, that he was disposed to grant the motion to reject Mulvaney’s request to join the lawsuit, and Mulvaney then withdrew it, and indicated he would file another one of his own.

    Earlier, both the House and the White House wanted the judge to not hear the case. But Mulvaney seems to have convince Trump this is OK. Mulvaney seems to be sticking with Trump, but at the same time trying to protect himself legally.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  289. Dustin @244

    Certainly we aren’t balancing this budget any time soon. But I disagree with Sammy as to the importance. A little interest rate change would be a big problem for the country.

    That’s right, but the problem there is the accumulate debt not the annual budget deficit. Now this is a situation which can reach a crisis, as they say, gradually, and then suddenly, like it did with New York City in 1975.

    What’s important is that people realize the importance of keeping interest rates low. And, just in case, refinance the debt to 50-100 year bonds or even perpetual bonds even if it slightly raises he deficit. Politicians are reluctant to do that because it makes the deficit and the debt bigger in the immediate future.

    If the deficit spirals it’s not the end of the world. The ratio of the debt to GDP could go down through inflation. This is what reduced it from the high levels it reached after World War II.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  290. Worrying about the deficit, instead of the debt is the same kind of error they make about carbon dioxide emissions, except that maybe there there’s no daner of a sudden change. The amount added each year is relatively small.

    To make their proposals make half sense they have to postulate a tipping point, when in reality, if you could get a sudden shift in climate, this would more logically follow chaos theory, where a small change could have the opposite effect of what they predict, so that attempts to keep the level of CO2 in the atmosphere slightly lower are pointless, and they’d be better of researching and planning for possible sudden climate interventions, like adding sulfer dioxide over the Arctic.

    And they also shouldn’t forget that there can always be a huge volcanic eruption or a limited nuclear war, both of which could temporarily suddenly cool the planet, so we could use all the global warming we can get..

    Of course what’s really going on now isn’t so much global warming as a greater day to day variation in both rainfall and temperature. That’s because the main effect is caused not by a rise in he level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere but by a rise in the level of dihydrogen monoxide (it’s estimated to be 5% above levels a century or more ago) – and unlike CO2, H20 is not rather evenly distributed in the atmosphere.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  291. Let’s say that someone works professionally for a large corporation that is just about the only employer in their chosen field. Or perhaps they work for a government bureau like the FBI.

    The person in charge is, in their opinion and the opinion of many, a jerk. He is driving the organization into ruin. Does he say this? Does he quit? Or does he keep his head down and hope that things change? If pressed does he give the least lip service possible to the current regime, knowing that it has a thin skin and he likes his job?

    Consider that this is where the professional politician is. They have to suffer through stuff where you or I have the luxury of punting, but that she does so — to me — is an example of integrity, of a belief in the larger system, not one of cowardice. I guess it can be hard to tell the difference from some viewpoints.

    Dustin often sees things in black and white. You are against Trump or you are with him, and no grey area, such as party loyalty or wanting to work within the system, seems meaningful to him. That how I read his posts over these last several years. Every so often I react, not often. This is one of those times.

    Kevin M (19357e) — 11/11/2019 @ 5:46 pm

    I do agree with Patterico’s interpretation of my view, but no hard feelings whatsoever Kevin. I’d much rather engage with you than one of the really zealous Trump trolls, which you very very clearly are not.

    Haley is not interesting at this point. Too much attention to someone with too few accomplishments other than holding some very impressive offices. Not even a very good governor, defined largely through clever weaseling and half measures.

    Let’s talk about Ted Cruz. Same minefield problem you’ve mentioned. How is a professional politician supposed to be honest about Trump and survive? Cruz soared in the GOP when he bashed the crap out of Trump in the primary. He made that primary take longer than it has in my memory. He even was pretty blunt at the convention. Then he made a shift, recognizing that he would pay the price with his office (and the team, the GOP would lost a senate seat in Texas). Cruz decided to be the ultimate team player and embarrass himself flip flopping on Trump, and somewhat struggled to be reelected (Though he didn’t really campaign too well. I think he lost his spirit for a couple of years).

    Now what’s Ted Cruz? Well, under my wishes, that he simply said what he really thought, he would be a reliable compass for conservatives. The real ones they call nevertrumpers I guess. The ones like me. But he wouldn’t be a Senator. By navigating the world of grey (by lying) he has become just another dude in a suit. But that’s thinking small. The GOP too has lost any brand because most of the national level leaders have made the same compromise Cruz did. Their party doesn’t mean strong foreign policy or fiscal discipline. It has too many nevertrumperish guys to really mean ‘muslim bans’ and racism. It’s just completely defined by ‘not democrats’. The democrats have defined themselves through promises for tremendous social welfare programs, far beyond what’s responsible, and the republicans have defined themselves by hissing at democrats.

    Losing a few offices doesn’t mean these leaders cease to exist. In the long term, 10-20-30 years from now, they would have had many chances to recover. And that’s up to us, the little voters and volunteers and angry commenters, to decide.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  292. 292. Dustin (d42b09) — 11/12/2019 @ 7:37 am

    We all know that Trump’s conduct has been terrible. The list is tiresome. But it’s not in debate. No honest person says he is a worthy president.

    Well, if you don’t follow the political or government news too much, you might.

    Make that “No well-informed honest person says he is a worthy president.

    The GOP pretending he is, for the sake of the team, is wrong. Simple as that

    I’m not sure what they’re pretending now. But pretending that Trump didn’t have a colossal error of judgment about Ukraine isn’t helping his defense. Not admitting that he didn’t make at least some kind f mistake here, like Ronald Reagan did about Iran-Contra, creates trouble for him

    There are other things where he is clearly wrong, as in immoral.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  293. Worrying about the deficit, instead of the debt is the same kind of error they make about carbon dioxide emissions, except that maybe there there’s no daner of a sudden change.

    how do we reduce the debt?

    If I had a ton of personal debt, I would reduce it by first balancing my household budget, and then paying down the debt. It’s not the same for the feds to some extent because you can’t just pay off all t-bills, but we probably could do with some enormous changes in many many programs that recognize our government is far too expensive and massive. The status quo is that we’re playing chicken. Any massive change would plunge the world into economic collapse.

    But look at what our nation’s adversaries are doing. Does Putin mind too much if this happens? Many of our enemies already are in economic collapse, but their leaders are totally insulated from reality. And the same could be true here.

    Under Trump, the deficit is increasing 20% or more every year. That’s insane. When numbers get into the trillions they are just concepts more than numbers and we start to act like they don’t matter, but they are still real values. Our children owe enormous sums of money, paying for section 8 housing, aircraft carriers, and boomers retiring a decade earlier than their kids will.

    And if a democrat were in the white house, I imagine this would a more common issue to discuss, but because the GOP’s signing this stuff into law, and the democrats want to spend even more, we’re just agreeing to ignore the problem.

    I probably need to figure out how to get those Zuckbucks and bitcoins.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  294. #298
    Coinbase
    Be prepared to send lots of ID over the internet.
    The good? news about buying bitcoin is you can buy tiny pieces like “pieces of eight” in the old days.
    I don’t recommend it at all as an investment because its insane to, but I did buy some when it was in the hundreds just as a learning experience. Bought some Ethereum too, sold it and rolled it into more Bitcoin.
    Ethereum is rather aptly named…
    Be prepared to lose it all. Its highly speculative backed by, well, ether

    Liquidity for a US based person is a huge problem with British or EU based bitcoin banks. You can buy some things with it, but options are limited. It is impossible to cash out and transfer to the USA. The only easy way to move bitcoin to USA is to transfer your coins to a US based bank (Coinbase) and then go to cash.
    So do NOT use an overseas bitcoin bank. Use Coinbase. Its in the USA and there are fewer issues trading bitcoin to cash, or having bitcoin cashed in and put onto a USA dollar debit card.

    I have no investment in Coinbase, but do have Bitcoins there.
    If you do use Bitcoins do not use them to buy anything in Russia, Iran, Eastern Europe, Venezuela, you get my drift. Coinbase will freeze your account and tell you to cash out now and never let you use their bank again.

    Good luck to you in all things

    steveg (354706)

  295. Bolton begging to be subpoenaed?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/politics/john-bolton-ukraine.html

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  296. thanks, Steveg!

    Dustin (d42b09)

  297. ?module=inline

    For the GOP to regain its soul, somebody who is sympathetic to his policy goals (and thus credible to his base) needs to speak out and condemn his dishonesty, ignorance and venality

    Kishnevi (2c05aa) — 11/11/2019 @ 7:33 pm

    There’s a problem with that approach. A significant portion of his base support him because of his dishonesty, ignorance, and venality

    It’s that some of his policy goals, and I am speaking here of immigration, are themselves, on their justifications are dishonest and ignorant. But the backing him didn’t think so. Ad the Democrats (except maybe now for Julian Castro and Bernie Sanders and not even him because he’s challenging policy but not going right at the arguments) don’t want to challenge the voters on any of this.

    Trump himself doesn’t believe in his immigration policies, which are just a little bit more emphatic, and less intellctually respectable than what Jeff Sessions was saying when he was a Senator.

    When he took away DACA he didn’t believe in it and neither did anybody else in the government, except maybe for Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions. Now that’s venal.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/us/politics/supreme-court-dreamers-case.html

    Trump didn’t beiieve in it:

    The day before making the announcement in 2017, the president huddled with Hope Hicks, a close aide at the time, and Mr. Miller in the small dining room off the Oval Office, hesitating about his decision and agonizing over what to say, according to people close to him. He wanted to appear tough to his voters, but he was anxious about being seen as mean to young people.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  298. Dustin is one of the people here who I think I could hang out with in person and get along with just fine.
    I did not understand him at first and I was a complete a$$#*** to him.
    He very graciously accepted my apologies and has been very kind even though I did not deserve it.

    We still disagree on some things Trump and may never be online buddies, but we can be and would be good neighbors.
    For example if Dustin were to find Warren for President sign on his lawn, his Ring doorbell (see Amazon side bar to buy one) his Ring doorbell would not pick me up peeing on his sign. It may look a lot like me, but thats not me, but that is my shirt.
    Just kidding.
    He wouldn’t have a Warren sign, but if we were neighbors, we’d get along regardless because I think he is a genuinely good person.

    There are lots of those types here, even the surly gruff ones. We disagree vehemently at times, but I am trying to recenter myself again after yesterday by reminding myself this is just a difference of opinion on a frickin blog. No need to go Don Rickles on everyone

    steveg (354706)

  299. Trump didn’t believe in what he was doing, and neither did anybody else in the government, except maybe for Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions.

    At a contentious meeting in the White House Roosevelt Room several days earlier, Elaine C. Duke, then the acting secretary of homeland security, had broken with the rest of Mr. Trump’s team and balked at its demand that she issue a memo ending Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the Obama-era program known as DACA that shields immigrants who were brought to the United States as children.

    Ms. Duke was deeply bothered by the idea that she could be responsible for deporting hundreds of thousands of young people from the country they considered their own, according to several people familiar with her concerns. And she did not want her name on what she saw as anti-immigrant policy rationales put forth by Mr. Sessions; Stephen Miller, the president’s powerful immigration adviser; and others who argued that the program encouraged new waves of illegal immigration and was an undeserved amnesty.

    She eventually relented under intense pressure…. Duke’s bare-bones memo ending the program did not make the case that President Barack Obama had gotten the policy wrong — that DACA recipients were not deserving of protection or that allowing them to stay in the country would create problems that the government wanted to avoid. Instead, Ms. Duke, a career civil servant who volunteered with an immigrant aid group in her free time, relied solely on an assertion by Mr. Sessions that it was unlawful…But Mr. Sessions also understood that the legal argument was not the strongest possible rationale they could make in court, according to several people familiar with his thinking who spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal private deliberations. If courts disagreed with him that DACA was unlawful, Mr. Sessions knew, the president would lose.

    And that is just what happened. Judges have ruled that by citing only a flawed legal rationale for ending DACA — and no policy justifications — the administration’s decision was “arbitrary and capricious,” …

    They are now saying this damaged the case, because, they say, it was not unlawful and that made the reversal arbitrary and capricious.

    I think, to be honest, whatever they would have done, the judges would have ruled against them. They don’t like to hurt people – actual human beings – for no reason.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  300. Nicely said, Steve, and no you won’t see a Warren sign in my lawn, though at least one of my neighbors will probably post one. And I get along with them very well.

    These blogs are good for entertainment that gets the brain working a bit. We all get bent out of shape about the issues we care about (I do, though I shouldn’t). These blogs should be fun.

    And we should recognize that there are happy lives of significance all through human history, most of which was under terrible, idiotic leadership. Gotta choose to focus on happy things.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  301. 298. Dustin (d42b09) — 11/12/2019 @ 8:23 am

    If I had a ton of personal debt, I would reduce it by first balancing my household budget,

    Easier said than done. What you wold need to do is ncrease your income.

    and then paying down the debt.

    What you try to do is get a lower interest rate. If you have some debts that carry a high interest rate, pay them down even if it means increasing the amount of low interest debt you have. Of course people can make mistakes here. You also need to be wary of automated cutbacks in a credit limit. Don’t pay down a low interest rate credit card, especially if it has had its credit limit reduced, but keep charging and pay down something else if you can. If you have a low interest rate mortgage don’t pay it down – it won’t even reduce your minimum monthly payment. Leave some margin for errors, (if you pay too much to the wrong creditor)

    Don’t make large purchases on a high interest credit card or take a high interest ash advance unless you pay it down quickly. If you pay more than the minimum on a high interest rate card they may raise your credit limit, especially smaller banks.

    It’s not the same for the feds to some extent because you can’t just pay off all t-bills,

    They are actually needed, as a form of currency. And if you tried, reducing it too low, remember that the officeholders that follow you may just run the debt up again. AND FOR NOTHING.

    but we probably could do with some enormous changes in many many programs that recognize our government is far too expensive and massive. The status quo is that we’re playing chicken. Any massive change would plunge the world into economic collapse.

    You’re more likely to get intoa collapse by trying to eliminate the debt.

    But look at what our nation’s adversaries are doing. Does Putin mind too much if this happens? Many of our enemies already are in economic collapse, but their leaders are totally insulated from reality. And the same could be true here.

    They all need a stable dollar. There is no substitute. They all want their children to keep their savings in dollars. Even ISISi and Iran uses dollars, if not bank accounts, than $100 bills, and if not dollars then Euros, if not in bank accounts than €500 Euro bills, but the Euro can’t last longer than the dollar. Xi Jingpin can try all he wants; he can’t create a substitute; nobody trusts him to keep his word and not make arbitrary changes in policy. It’s not possible to fool enough people for that to work, and if it is, something will come along, like the events in Hong Kong this year, to remind people not to trust China to do anything for longer than its immediate interests.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  302. Easier said than done. What you wold need to do is ncrease your income.

    I had this whole obnoxious bit in response, but I’ll spare you.

    How does the government get revenue? In direct and indirect taxation.

    So a trillion dollar deficit is really a tax increase. This is one reason why it’s useful to look at annual deficits. We can demonstrate accountability for high taxes a few years down the road.

    I have an idea: let’s create a tax exemption for boomers and increase taxes on all born after 1970 to 100% and change their age of retirement to 350 years old.

    Dustin (d42b09)

  303. There’s a problem with that approach. A significant portion of his base support him because of his dishonesty, ignorance, and venality.

    I really doubt this. They may ignore these things, but that is not the basis for their support. They support him because he says things no one else has dared to, or that he makes people they hate uncomfortable, or they generally support his policies, or because they think that Washington needs a good drubbing.

    They don’t support him because of HIS ignorance, but perhaps because of their own. Not clear — his wrecking of the Bush-Clinton bipartisan New World Order has been insightful. His construction of something new to takes its place has been non-existent, of course. You may disagree with this wrecking, but his supporters could not be happier.

    They don’t support his venality, but they do support him making money. There’s a difference and it often is just a matter of what color glasses you wear.

    They don’t support dishonesty, but they really don’t see it as such. What they see is the pointy-headed jerks they’ve always hated getting all up-in-arms about what Trump says. That’s all good to them.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  304. So a trillion dollar deficit is really a tax increase.

    I got a note from my local county government, explaining htat the bond issues on the ballot would not increase taxes if passed. Then it went on to say that if they FAILED, taxes would go down slightly.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  305. If I had a ton of personal debt, I would reduce it by first balancing my household budget, and then paying down the debt

    I think this is the wrong approach as “balancing the budget” can be done by assuming an increase in income. States do this ALL the time. CA has had a balanced budget requirement for decades, and yet is always playing games with funds, bonds, lock-boxes, etc to make ends seem to meet.

    What you do is limit spending to less than the average you took in over the last several years. Generally this will leave you a slight surplus, which can pay down debt or go into savings. In bad years you spend a bit more than you take in, but that’s OK too, so long as you do the first thing.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  306. The GOP pretending he is, for the sake of the team, is wrong. Simple as that.

    I have not seen a lot of quotes from GOP members saying that Trump is a great president, or that he’s even a good president. Only that he is the ELECTED president, as such his powers and authority should be respected, and impeachment for actions that are demonstrably less than allowed any of his recent predecessors is troubling to them.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  307. SF: Easier said than done. What you would need to do is ncrease your income.

    Dustin (d42b09) — 11/12/2019 @ 9:55 am

    I had this whole obnoxious bit in response, but I’ll spare you.

    Well, there’s a difference between the government and a person.

    How does the government get revenue? In direct and indirect taxation.

    A local government, although they could also get into a business, or run a business like a transit agency better, and when pressed, they do..

    There is another way for a government to get more revenue, and this applies much more to the federal government than a state government: Economic growth.

    That’s what happened in the 1990s. Of course Bill Clinton knew that the way to do it was to keep nterest rates low, but he didn’t want anyone else to know.

    He did three things in that connection:

    1) First he developed an economic plan, evaluated by Goldman Sachs and ran on it in the 1992 campaign. Me and my father even saw an ad one time which showed Bill Clinton at a desk working on a plan. It ran even in New York. My father, I have to report, believed that.

    Now Bill Clinton had no intention of implementing that. Hillary Clinton just said, in reference to campaign proposals, that they are not intended to be carried out (a sort of defense of Elizabeth Warren I think) and cited the fact that in 2008 Barack Obama criticized the individual mandate which was in her health care plan and then later adopted it. She could have a given a better example: Her husband;s “economic plan” She knew what they intended because she cashed in capital gains in 1992.

    2) 3The second thing he did was to throw his economic plan in the garbage, making some kind of excuse about tings had changed and he adopted another plan, which involved raising taxes a little.

    He deliberately engineered things so that it passed by one vote, in both the House and the Senate, with no Republicans voting for it.

    His intent was to portray the Republicans as partisan but people correctly interpreted that as the Democratic Party being partisan because no legislation would get zero votes if it wasn’t bad. When he also later came up with a health are plan, voters got scared that the Congress would be a rubber stamp, and, even though that health care plan never came up for a vote because it was so bad, voted in a Republican Congress in 1994.

    Clinton had wanted something that all Republicans opposed. Then when economic growth took off, he’d be able to attack the Republican Party.

    3) Third, he got economic growth going by arranging behind the scenes to keep interest rates low.

    Economic growth took off so much, that Clinton kept on underestimating it, I believe on purpose. He caused the California brownouts of 1999/2000 by doing that because he California regulators had projected less electricity demand and for “environmental” reasons they kept producton it low.

    When the federal budget went into balance and the debt started to be paid down President Clinton (with Al Gore) came up with the idea of Social Security “lockbox”

    https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal99-0000201147

    A bill that supporters said would put surplus Social Security revenues into a protected “lockbox” passed in the House but ran into a Democratic filibuster in the Senate.

    The great lockbox debate of 1999 started as congressional Republicans sought to use Social Security as a political wedge to advance their budget and tax goals — while winning political points at the expense of Democrats. With surplus projections far surpassing prior estimates, the federal government in fiscal 2000 would no longer have to borrow from Social Security reserves to pay for other government programs, provided lawmakers’ appetites for spending and tax cuts could be curbed. The lockbox bills aimed to erect procedural hurdles that would make it more difficult for lawmakers to cast votes to “spend” Social Security surpluses….

    …President Clinton endorsed the lockbox idea at a July 12 White House meeting. But further debate could prove embarrassing, because the Congressional Budget Office said that Congress and Clinton teamed up to “raid” Social Security yet again in the fiscal 2000 spending bills.

    This thing actually attributes the idea to Republicans. But I remember how much Al Gore supported it.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-sep-03-me-41703-story.html

    Gore’s Lockbox Idea Looks Better Now

    SEP. 3, 2001 12 AM

    Bill Clinton was nothing if not clever, in a Machiavellian way.

    Clinton wanted budget crisis so he could get things into continuing resolutions and other must pass legislation. So he balanced the budget and tried to avoid the political consequences of not having an annual budget crisis.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  308. So a trillion dollar deficit is really a tax increase. This is one reason why it’s useful to look at annual deficits. We can demonstrate accountability for high taxes a few years down the road.

    That’s true for “infrastructure” or any kind of capital expenditures.

    They are paid for by borrowing and the borrowing CANNOT be used for day to day (called operating) expenses.

    This is considered to be “good government.”

    It’s not

    There is no incentive to save money on projects. Unless they get to be really high.

    The MTA in New York is headed for a big shortfall in 2021 even with “congestion pricing” t drve into the Manhattan business district (anything below 60 St)

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  309. Kevin M (19357e) — 11/12/2019 @ 10:41 am

    CA has had a balanced budget requirement for decades, and yet is always playing games with funds, bonds, lock-boxes, etc to make ends seem to meet.

    I think New York State pioneered that:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1985/07/02/nyregion/new-york-s-rescue-the-offstage-drama.html

    https://www.inc.com/magazine/19830401/5773.html

    The rescue was very bad as it prevented New Yrk City from dealing with an increase in crime.

    One idea is to move expenditures from one year to another.

    What you do is limit spending to less than the average you took in over the last several years. Generally this will leave you a slight surplus, which can pay down debt or go into savings. In bad years you spend a bit more than you take in, but that’s OK too, so long as you do the first thing.

    There are always new things on which money needs to be spent. And increased costs for the same thing are usually built in – salary increases, greater debt load, increased insurance costs. Maybe increased population – but if it goes down things are even worse.

    I am against government budgets – period. Corporations don’t have annual budgets. They are continuously adjusted what they do. Government budgets tend to freeze spending in place.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  310. 287. Kevin M (19357e) — 11/11/2019 @ 8:51 pm

    So, impeach him for what he IS — incompetent, STOOPID, boorish and a lying sack of sh1t. Not for spitting on the sidewalk.

    Those are ot gronds for impeachment except maybe the last item.

    And they could even try just freezing the Ukraianian aid in secret. But that did get restored – so not serious enough.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  311. Trump Has Considered Firing Intelligence Community Inspector General
    President Trump has discussed dismissing the intelligence community’s inspector general, Michael Atkinson, because Mr. Atkinson reported a whistle-blower’s complaint about Mr. Trump’s interactions with Ukraine to Congress after concluding it was credible, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

    Mr. Trump first expressed his dismay about Mr. Atkinson around the time the whistle-blower’s complaint became public in September. In recent weeks, he has continued to raise with aides the possibility of firing him, one of the people said.

    The president has said he does not understand why Mr. Atkinson shared the complaint, which outlined how Mr. Trump asked the Ukrainian president to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals at the same time he was withholding military aid from the country. He has said he believes Mr. Atkinson, whom he appointed in 2017, has been disloyal, one of the people said. …..

    People close to the president believe the political consequences of firing Mr. Atkinson could be devastating, especially when Mr. Trump needs all the Republican support he can get for a potential impeachment trial in the Senate. …..

    Rip Murdock (980784)

  312. @312 The California blackouts weren’t Clinton, they were Enron. Enron was arbitrarily closing power plants to increase electricity prices and their own profits.

    Nic (896fdf)


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