Patterico's Pontifications

10/15/2019

Democratic Debate Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:50 pm



[guest post by Dana]

The debate is live on CNN, and streaming on CNN.com and the NYTimes.com. Front-runners Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders will be center-stage. And making his debut appearance is one-percenter Tom Steyer. Oh, an lest I forget, the Little Aloha Sweetie herself will also be on stage!

And if so moved, you can make your Election Confession 2020 here:

Tell us what you really think about the 2020 election. What are your thoughts on the presidential candidates? How do you feel about the race itself so far? About the state of the country? Share your anonymous confession with NBC News.

You can also read everyone else’s “confession” too!

[Ed. True confessions during a political debate?? Now that’s pretty funny!]

–Dana

143 Responses to “Democratic Debate Open Thread”

  1. I wanted to support a woman for President. Then I met Pete. He was born for this and he arrived in the nick of time.

    #PeteButtigieg

    Heh.

    Dana (05f22b)

  2. These are hilarious:

    My first choice, but please slow down your brain to lip delivery. We already have a guy whose lips don’t keep up with his tongue.

    #JoeBiden

    Dana (05f22b)

  3. Democrats:

    CNN’s Erin Burnett asking Sanders about taxing billionaires out of existence under his plan to tackle income inequality took an unexpected turn when the lone billionaire on the stage — businessman Tom Steyer — agreed.

    Steyer in his first debate appearance spoke directly to voters about the need for a wealth tax and strengthening worker and union rights.

    “The corporations have bought our government,” he said, adding that it’s time to “break the power of these corporations.”

    It’s important to note, however, Steyer has spent nearly $20 million on radio and TV ads ahead of the debate, which helped him qualify for it while other candidates did not. And he spent almost $200 million to fund candidates and campaigns in the past for years, which helped him grow his name recognition in politics.

    Dana (05f22b)

  4. In massachusetts steyer ads have been a constant for a month.

    mg (8cbc69)

  5. If you include his impeachment ads, they’ve been constant in my part of Florida since he started them back in…December 2016, wasn’t it?

    Kishnevi (2009b0)

  6. My pledge still stands: The first one to start a chant “Lock him up!” gets my vote in the Democratic primary. And since I’m in Illinois, that vote will count.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. ‘Squinty Joe.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. I left to go on a long walk and came back and they’re still yammering

    Patterico (115b1f)

  9. I mentioned asking Beto to draw the line at filming a visit to his proctologist, doubt it will make the cut

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. “ And since I’m in Illinois, that vote will count.”

    Yeah, probably be counted several times…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. Hawaii wahini is it, has a nice outfit , but they are still stark raving mad.

    narciso (d1f714)

  12. Well he had the nanobot injection lasr week so.

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. “ And making his debut appearance is one-percenter Tom Steyer”

    Isn’t he polling at < 1% ?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  14. So far I’ve skipped every Dem debate because I don’t care what they say. I doubt I’ll vote for any of them. Any chance this is the debate that would have changed me mind? Or yet another word salad buffet of spin, soundbites and bad ideas?

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  15. So who are you going to vote for then?

    narciso (d1f714)

  16. The Nats are shedding the bed, so I’ll have a look at this motley troupe.

    urbanleftbehind (c494f6)

  17. 7 things to watch for during the Democratic debate:

    1. What else is on TV tonight?
    2. Isn’t tonight supposed to have a full moon?
    3. When was the last time we stood outside on a fall evening and watched a moonrise?
    4. Don’t we need to do a sock load this evening? As I recall, all my blue dress socks are in the wash.
    5. Anyone feel like a game of rummy?
    6. I wonder when America will finally have a pre-teen transgender president.
    7. Man, ain’t those idiots done yet?

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  18. Today’s Biden Gaffe:

    “My son made a judgment… I’m proud of the judgement he made.” – Joe Biden

    “Was it poor judgment to be in the middle of something that is… a swamp in– in, many, many ways? Yeah.” – Hunter Biden

    Proud??? Of poor judgment??

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. You mean the cards no. Honestly they need shock collars for motivation

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. Remember that heated spike thing they put han solo through before they froze himthat

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. No the nats were up 7-0 ,and the cards got up to 7-4.

    Daren, I thought the same things except for the type of card game.

    urbanleftbehind (c494f6)

  22. All that talk of rounding up executives is gonna drive a lot of Never- and Reluc-Trump into Emphatic-Trump.

    urbanleftbehind (c494f6)

  23. 22… but… but… muh Collusion!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. @15
    Dunno, might write in someone. Might pick a 3rd party. Current candidates range from a hard no to a soft no.

    Time123 (d54166)

  25. “Robert Bork is laughing in his sleep”

    That’s a really deeeeeeeeeeep sleep!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  26. Did I hear Booker correctly?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. Split screen viewing: Nationals 7, Cards 4, bottom of the 6th; Indoor Drone Race- aka Dem Debate.

    One of these teams is gonna snatch defeat from the jaws of victory– and they ain’t playin’ baseball.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. This is a violation of the geneva and vienna conventions

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. Coop/Erin: do an audience pan: how many people in the audience are watching the ball game on their smartphones?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. Share your anonymous confession with NBC News.

    Don’t hold back, JVW.

    :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  31. “I’m the only person here who has really gotten anything big done.” – Joe Biden

    “I accept full responsibility. But not the blame.” – ‘Richard Nixon’ [David Frye] ‘Richard Nixon: A Fantasy’ – 1973

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. Steyer may have pushed his podium f ok rward involuntarily.

    urbanleftbehind (c494f6)

  33. Woohoo! Nationals sweep! Congrat!

    _____

    Dementia check:

    “This is the United States of America!!!” – Joe Biden

    And what city are you in, Joe?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. Ceti alpha 6

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. Now its Fish-Face and the Pirate’s team vs. Bad Orange Man’s team in the ALCS.

    Klobuhar is a throwback, 3 packs a day with dentures.

    urbanleftbehind (c494f6)

  36. Fish face? I swear urban you try to out cryptic me

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. Three salads you mean

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. I had no idea you could clip coupons in the stock market…

    #thanksJoeBiden

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. Today’s Biden Gaffe:

    “My son made a judgment… I’m proud of the judgement he made.” – Joe Biden

    “Was it poor judgment to be in the middle of something that is… a swamp in– in, many, many ways? Yeah.” – Hunter Biden

    Proud??? Of poor judgment??

    Idiot.

    He was, in context, clearly talking about the judgment Hunter made in acknowledging some error. I continue to laugh at the notion that Biden’s verbal miscues are super important in the era of Trump.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  40. It will be interesting to see if the D’s can keep the impeachment inquiry going until the election.

    frosty48 (f27e97)

  41. Well, I missed the whole thing. How did Little Aloha Sweetie do?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  42. Did they even let her speak?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  43. Tulsi Gabbard got the second least amount of time to speak. Tom Steyer had the least.

    Dana (05f22b)

  44. Here’s a clip of her going after CNN and the NYT tonight.

    Dana (05f22b)

  45. I want a frankencandidate (no not an Al Franken candidate). Can I just take some various policy statements and mix them around so that there’s someone I’m more OK with? Please? Because I cannot vote for Trump.

    Nic (896fdf)

  46. @49 – You know, not voting at all is an option. If you vote in a democratic election, you’re agreeing to abide by the decision of the majority (of the Electoral College in this case) – unless you’re a Democrat, in which case it’s perfectly acceptable to claim to be horrified at the thought that Donald Trump may not accept the legitimacy of the election and then 5 seconds after he’s elected going straight to denouncing his election as illegitimate. Despite the “Don’t Blame Me, I Voted For The Other Guy” and the “If You Didn’t Vote You Have No Right To Complain” bumperstickers, if you voted, you have no right to complain and it doesn’t matter who you voted for, you agreed to abide by the decision of the majority.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  47. @50 every part of what you wrote is wrong.

    Time123 (d54166)

  48. Good Lord: a WSJ piece from 2013 notes that Wall Street “coupon clipping’ stems from the days of candlestick/rotary phones- when investors literally had to clip a coupon for cash redemptions. It’s all electronic, now. But Joe, do share with Americans them $100,000/yr., teaching jobs be.

    And BTW, Joe– Lindbergh made it to Paris.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. Being ignored may have its benefits- I would not be surprised if Steyer and Gabbard are a thing after last night. They were next to each other at the far left of the stage and the mutual thirst was palpable.

    urbanleftbehind (e6de01)

  50. Yikes, this debate is just one more piece of evidence of how completely dysfunctional our political system is right now. One would think the DEMs could find at least one moderate with some executive experience (or leadership credentials) to find his/her way into the top tier. Nope, just a pack of socialists and reminiscing-Joe, who has vascillated in his career from being hopelessly wrong to embarrassingly tedious. This is an election about leadership….not an audition on how to best spend other people’s money. Who can be commander in chief? Who can negotiate with our strategic adversaries and build coalitions? Who can change our national discourse? This is an opportunity to rise above….and all we get is more food fight. Click.

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  51. No its about seizing total power, ruling iver you and me. Get that straight.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. @43 I wonder if Biden, in any way, is super important in the era of Trump. His main draw at this point is a silly grin and the photos of him standing near BO. He’s establishment D and those scrawny boney old hands are having a lot of trouble keeping their grip on the wheel.

    It looks like the wind is shifting to Warren since she’s the only remotely serious one in play. Most of them shouldn’t be anywhere near a position at the national level. How many of them have been “offended” by something? I think at least Beto and t-bone have pulled that one.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  53. #55, Well, both parties are being pushed out towards the edges….how we consume media is in part driving this IMO. The DEM primary is an appeal to the Left…..and moderates cannot compete in that game. However, it’s even hard to identify a Sam Nunn or even an Evan Bayh these days. The DEM primary is like a gaggle of college freshmen smoking pot and giddily musing about how they imagine things should be….free college, free child care, $15/hr minimum wage, free health care, and the rich pay for it all…..yikes…..what has the idea of leadership descended to?

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  54. Yes and sam nunn was on the board of theranos letting elizabeth holmes grift along with schultz and general mattis.

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. @57 You joke but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see internal communications from some of these candidates staff with things like “don’t forget the drum circle tonight we’ve got to brainstorm on the mandatory gun buy backs” or “several of us were hitting the bong before lunch and came up with some sick burns we need to start using”.

    Good news though, I read this morning that Yang finally worked out his math on universal basic income.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  56. 58, that sounds like a great cabinet to some who will have neither brand of fire water.

    urbanleftbehind (e6de01)

  57. She knew they werent tech savvy.
    , so she snowed them with carp, also on the board ceo of wells fargo.

    narciso (d1f714)

  58. I like Yang. he avoids the racial tribal crap. He doesn’t talk sh*t about anyone. He focuses on problems and solutions. He’s the most authentic least posturing person up there.

    JRH (52aed3)

  59. “ A new election model from Moody Analytics shows that if the economy remains healthy, Donald Trump will win the 2020 election easily.

    The Moody model has been backtested to 1980 and was right each time — except for 2016 when it predicted a narrow Hillary Clinton win (who didn’t?).

    The model shows the uphill climb Democrats have regardless of what current polls are saying about the race.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/election-model-shows-trump-would-steamroll-the-democrat-in-2020/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  60. They all were for for impeachment and most treated it as an open and shut case, although they were more highly critical of Trump’s decision re:Syria, and considered more of adisqulifcation to be president, but I note that they didn’t consder that grounds for impeachment. So the idea that impeachment shold not be used forpolicy disagreements or incompetence is still holding.

    The Democrats are in lockstep with regard to certain things, even things you can sense some candidates would rather not say. Tulsi Gabbard, for instance, had to be for (or OK with) a non-bipartisan impeachment and against the decision Trump made on Syria. Incidentally the New York Times did not call her a Russian asset – it just wrote an article about how she was getting boosted in strange places.

    Joe Biden confused some peole (including a Bloomberg radio commentator) into thinking that Hunter Biden was Attorney General of Delaware at some point. That was his other son, he one who died.

    At one point. Elizabeth Warren, realizing that if Trump were removed from office, supposedly something she hopes for, mentioned she would win against Mike Pence or whoever the Republicans are stuck with.

    Sammy Finkelman (3efdba)

  61. @52 LOL. Coupon clipping went out more than 30 years ago. Isn’t the party discipline of the D’s remarkable. You not only had the Democrats at CNN tossing out softballs and only asking tough questions from a left-wing point of view, but all the Candidates REFUSED to go after Biden on his age or his corruption. They don’t want to help the Republicans and would rather LOSE than appear right-wing.

    Meanwhile, RINO’s like Romney, Sasse, Kasich, etc. can’t wait to criticize other R’s and help the MSM and the and D’s in destroying their fellow Republicans. Anything for a pat on the back from Chuck Shumer or a smile from Chuck Todd. All Mittens did in 2008 and 2012 was trash his fellow R’s to get the nomination. And then in 2016, did everything he could to help Hillary, without actually campaigning and voting for her. Its incredible.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  62. I was surprised at the hostility toward Warren by Beto and Harris but then realized they’re looking for a VP slot with Biden or a job in the Biden Administration. Biden will have to pick a person of color OR a younger white woman as VP to Balance the ticket. Harris seems like the perfect choice. Booker would fit the bill too.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  63. Yes red squaw caught a few arrows, the resr of you are you on meth, you trust the country with any of shtarkers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. At one point. Elizabeth Warren, realizing that if Trump were removed from office, supposedly something she hopes for, mentioned she would win against Mike Pence or whoever the Republicans are stuck with.

    You can get a good sense of the odds the candidates give for a Trump removal by how they position themselves against Pence. The same goes for the media. That we’re not seeing a lot of reporting on the poll numbers between candidate X vs Pence points to impeachment being more of a campaign tactic.

    The best money right now is on them dragging out the inquiry with consistent reports of important closed-door testimony.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  65. Hard to believe these ingrates didn’t talk about banning straws nation wide.

    mg (8cbc69)

  66. They just to take away your guns and have you crazing like cattle.

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. I wasnt bothered by Howard Dean whooping and hollering, neither do I care that she was mean to her staff.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  68. I like Yang. he avoids the racial tribal crap. He doesn’t talk sh*t about anyone. He focuses on problems and solutions. He’s the most authentic least posturing person up there.

    There’s a lot about Yang that’s admirable. But my problem with him is that at heart, and as a Democrat, he truly seems to believe that there is a technocratic federal government solution to every problem we face. I would just once like to hear him (or any Democrat for that matter) say, “That’s a long-standing problem, and I don’t think there is much that Washington can do about it. Solutions will either have to come at a local level, or else people will just have to change their own behaviors.”

    JVW (54fd0b)

  69. I didn’t hear any Democrat really explain why what Trump did in Ukraine is so wrong, if not illegal. It’s not that difficult.

    If the Administration had real evidence of wrongdoing, there would be a Justice Department investigation of the Bidens. In the absence of that, they put the screws to the new leader of Ukraine to get him to do their dirty work. Using their power over him to deny due process to an American citizen. The President, Vice President, the State Department and the President’s “attorney”… all guilty of collusion. Abusing their power at the expense of a fellow American.

    Do you want your President sending foreign governments after you? Do you want a foreign power hacking your computer? Investigating your past? Making sh!t up about you? I didn’t think so. But that is what Trump has been seeking…. for years.

    noel (f22371)

  70. Wen Bernie Sanders mentioned that he was holding a rally in Queens, I wondered;

    Queens?

    I didn’t connect it to Alexadra Oxasio Cortez (who reoresents a portion of Queens (and the Bronx) She is goingto endorse him or quasi endorse him.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  71. Why does Klobuchar’s mistreatment of her staff matter? To me, it demonstrates a selfish tendency to choose her own insignificant demands over the happiness of others. Her actions appear to be devastating to those serving her.

    If someone doesn’t care about those around them, they sure as hell don’t care about you. Let’s not follow this Administration with another dysfunctional one.

    noel (f22371)

  72. “I wasnt bothered by Howard Dean whooping and hollering,”

    I was totally the opposite on his ‘I Have A Scream’ speech. That night watching I was rattled that he could become President. The fact that it sunk his campaign was a brief reaffirmation of national sanity……and then Obama and Trump took a torch to everything.

    harkin (6776a3)

  73. “Do you want your President sending your own governments after you? Do you want those who control and regulate communications hacking your computer/phone? Investigating your past? Making sh!t up about you? I didn’t think so. But that is what Democrats has been seeking…. for years.

    fyp

    harkin (6776a3)

  74. 76. noel (f22371) — 10/16/2019 @ 10:14 am

    I didn’t hear any Democrat really explain why what Trump did in Ukraine is so wrong, if not illegal. It’s not that difficult. </blockquote. It is that difficult, and it seems to entail misrepresenting the facts.
    If the Administration had real evidence of wrongdoing, there would be a Justice Department investigation of the Bidens.

    They didn’t have, but they thought Ukraine might have because of what some people were telling Giuliani, and it was precisely to get real evidence that Trump made that request of Zelensky.

    He was only trying to substantiate what Giuliani had been told. He didn’t want to accuse Biden of anything without some more solid backing.

    He was also more interested in hearing that Ukraine had colluded with Hillary in 2016 and possibly that Russia did not hack the DNC than in finding out anything about Biden, and we can see that in the telephone call.

    Asking Ukraine is reasonable, if there was a serious possibiliy the things Trump was talking about could be true

    The point is, there was not.

    And, again, Trump’s principle concern was not the Bidens. It was some kind of theory about Crowdstrike and the servers. They’re focusing on the Biden matter because it can be mischaracterized as pressuring Ukraine to dig up dirt on an opponent, rather than check out specific allegations or find out what was the motive for the association between Hunter Biden and Borisma.

    Incidentally, Guliani has two other things on his mind that he was getting “information” justifying.

    Firing the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, and expelling Fethullah Gülen to Turkey. That last looks like a Turkish thig but I think this (along with Mike Flynn’s interest in this too) is proof it is really coming from Russia. I think Erdogan only wants him extradited because of Russian disinformation that Gulen was responsible for the 2016 coup attempt in Turkey.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  75. Today’s Biden Gaffe:

    “You know, credibility matters.” – Joe Biden

    You know, you’re a known plagiarist.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. Do you want your President sending foreign governments after you? Do you want a foreign power hacking your computer? Investigating your past? Making sh!t up about you? I didn’t think so. But that is what Trump has been seeking…. for years. </blockquote. Trump was seeking none of these things.

    With the Bidens, it was Joe Biden supposedly boasting about stopping an investigation. What he really boasted about was getting the prosecutor fired, but while he may have done some things in that regard, the story about a cancelled announcement is probably a lie.

    This creates a minefield for Joe Biden.

    He’s got to avoid discussing the principal piece of “evidence” Giuliani had: What Joe Biden said in his January 23, 2018 speech to the Council on Foreign Relations:

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    …I think the Donbas has potential to be able to be solved, but it takes two things. One of those things is missing now. And that is I’m desperately concerned about the backsliding on the part of Kiev in terms of corruption. They made—I mean, I’ll give you one concrete example. I was—not I, but it just happened to be that was the assignment I got. I got all the good ones. And so I got Ukraine. And I remember going over, convincing our team, our leaders to—convincing that we should be providing for loan guarantees. And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

    So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

    Now for one thing, Biden never took anywhere close to 12 trips to Kiev. He took maybe five, and the last one before the Viktor Shenko was in December 2015. He on;y lost his job in March, and was replaced in April and the loan giarantees weren’t signed until June 2016, a day after the Ukrainian Parliament had passed a package of anticorruption legislation. And Obama had already said it was conditionl in November 2015 – it was not going to be released but for Biden’s intervention. The accusation is
    a complete distortion of what Biden said, but what Biden said wasn’t true,
    so he can’t discuss it. Biden incidently, tells this whole story supposedly to indicate backsliding: after he got the prosecutor replaced, the new prosecutor was also bad.

    In the absence of that, they put the screws to the new leader of Ukraine to get him to do their dirty work.

    They didn’t put the screws (even if possibly someone had an intention of doing so, but I think Trump was holding it up for some stupid reason and Gordon Sondland was trying to get it released and thought this would help) and they didn’t want him to do dirty work.

    This just doesn’t check out.

    And what’s more, Ukraine is probably still going to do the two investigations that Trump requested.

    The first one, on Crowdstrike, just to clear the air (and possibly show this is Russian disinformation) and the second, to check out whether there was a cynical motive for hiring Hunter Biden.

    Using their power over him to deny due process to an American citizen.

    Biden wouldn’t be charged with anything. If you thnk that Trump wanted Ukraine to fabricate a case against Joe Biden, or conduct a witch hunt, then he would be defamed, but not prosecuted. But a false charge would be useless to Donald Trump. He’s not a Democrat.

    Now the person who’s not getting due process is Donald Trump. There’s a reason for that. Because the case is not good. And because they have to avoid Joe Biden getting asked questions based on taht janauary 23, 2018 speech.

    The President, Vice President, the State Department and the President’s “attorney”… all guilty of collusion. Abusing their power at the expense of a fellow American.

    Not to do anything to create evidence for something they knew for sure was unfounded.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  77. they decided they need to go full yeargh, lurch wasn’t enough

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. 83. DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/16/2019 @ 11:16 am

    You know, you’re a known plagiarist.

    It’s charitable to call that plagiarism.

    Biden was lying about aspects of his own biography

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  79. no sammeh, he plagiarized in law school, and then the Kinnock speech,

    narciso (d1f714)

  80. Note: if you notice, the way Adam Schiff has formulated the accusation, it’s just as bad for Trump to try to get Ukraine to find out the truth about Biden as it would be to try to get Ukraine to make up lies because both are asking for help in an election. (as if a true indication of lack of ethics of an candidate would be of value only to that candidate’s rival

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  81. 76… Clueless in NeverTrump

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  82. The Kinnock speech wasn’t just plagarism. Biden using that as his own, was lying.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  83. 89… 76. Clueless in NeverTrump Strike that, poorly phrased…

    That’s one way to look at it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. Jay Rosen
    @jayrosen_nyu
    The “make Elizabeth warren say she would raise taxes on the middle class” question should be a credibility killer. For the journalists who keep asking it.
    __ _

    OnTheBench
    @Huerts31
    This is an excellent way of putting it if you believe the media and the GOP are on opposite teams
    __ _

    Sen. John Blutarsky (T)
    @Mongotrucker
    BREAKING: Journalism Professor doesn’t believe in Journalism.
    __ _

    furious_pounces_a
    @furious_a
    MUST PROTECT THE PRECIOUS

    _

    harkin (6776a3)

  85. From Rich Galen’s Mullings e-mail/blog

    A month ago, on September 15, the RealClearPolitics.com aggregate of polls had that race:

    •Biden – 28.5%
    •Warren – 18.0%
    •Sanders – 17.5%
    •Buttigieg – 7.5%

    •Over this past weekend those same four polled as follows:

    •Warren – 22.7%
    •Biden – 19.3%
    •Sanders – 16.0%
    •Buttigieg – 12.0%

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  86. Trump supporters are condemning Adam Schiff for paraphrasing the President? Trump supporters? They worship this President who makes stuff up almost every day. And they see no irony in it.

    Schiff even had said… “this is the essence of what the president communicates”. This is “treason”? What is wrong with you people?

    noel (f22371)

  87. 71 The exact quote from Senator Elizabeth Warren about possibly running against Mike Pence:

    BURNETT: Senator Warren, like Senator Sanders and Vice President Biden, if you win the presidency, you would be the oldest president ever inaugurated in a first term. You would be 71. Forty percent of Democratic primary voters say they think a candidate under the age of 70 is more likely to defeat President Trump. What do you say to them?

    WARREN: Well, I say, I will out-work, out-organize, and outlast anyone, and that includes Donald Trump, Mike Pence, or whoever the Republicans get stuck with.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  88. Most agreed that te=hey should send pharmaceutical executives to prison. (there wouldn’t be too many of the, I presume, so it would not contribute to mass incarceration)

    That is quite impossible – the statute of limitations has long expired.

    And th4 deaths were caused not by selling Oxycontin and the like (with the claim there was no potential for addiction) but by cutting people off!

    Plus the fact that wen anyone comes out od rehab or other detoxfication, the required doses are now much lower, and the lethal dose less than the old maintenance dose, and the substitution of fentanyl for heroin.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  89. Here;s kamala Harris:

    LACEY: Thank you, Congressman. Senator Harris, you want to hold the drug manufacturers that fueled the crisis accountable. Are you in favor of sending those drug company executives to jail?

    HARRIS: I am….And, yes, they should be held accountable. This is a matter of justice.

    And so as president of the United States, I would ensure that the United States Department of Justice, understand that you want to deal with who is really a criminal? Let’s end mass incarceration and end that failed war on drugs, and let’s go after these pharmaceutical companies for what they’ve been doing to destroy our country and states like Ohio.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  90. she might want to talk to among others, eric holder who represented purdue pharmaceuticals before the west virginia supreme court, also alice fisher formerly of the justice department,

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. CNN: “Trump made 129 false claims last week”. Even if they are half accurate, this is alarming. Then, for the Democrats, we have a a leading candidate (or two) who is socialist. There may be your choices, folks.

    A country of 300 million people and that’s what we have to choose from? Come on. Somebody step up as a credible 3rd Party candidate. With virtually unlimited money available for campaigns from the wealthy or online, this shouldn’t be impossible.

    noel (f22371)

  92. 95. noel (f22371) — 10/16/2019 @ 1:03 pm

    95.Trump supporters are condemning Adam Schiff for paraphrasing the President?

    That was ot paraphasing.

    That was mischarterizing – it wasn’t a legitimate interpretation of what Trump said in the July 25, 2019 telephone call. Trump was right that he should recuse himself or resign from the committee (but not right in propsoing more)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  93. John Bolton didn’t want that call made before the Ukrainian election and at least he succeeded in preventingthat. There was quite a lot of infighting at the White House (between those who wanted to avoid a crazy policy and others)

    This is a real story but it isn;’t what Adam Schiff wants to tell.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  94. @97 The age and health issues are going to be a problem for them if they’ve got to run against Pence. Thanks for the transcript. That makes it seem like more of a throw-away line, i.e. I’ll outlast anyone bring’em on, etc.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  95. Part 1 is tasty too, noel.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. @101 Oh, you’re not doing the crap sandwich justice. Beto has blown the doors off of we don’t want to take your guns, we don’t want to force churches to marry homosexuals, we don’t believe in late-term abortions, and I’m probably missing some others. You’ve got more than two socialists. Biden is telling news outlets what political commercials they can run and CNN is agreeing to it. T-bone and KH might as well just put token 1 and 2 on their name tags because they’re just there for when the VP polling comes back with a gender. We used to argue about whether these were strawmen not long ago and now they’ve come to life and walking around.

    It’s one thing for the D’s and R’s to be a corrupt uniparty that generally keeps the car on the road, even if not always between that lanes. It’s another for both parties to have dropped acid and armed up for a road trip/cross country crime spree.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  97. don’t worry, youtube is burying all that inconvenient crime think,

    narciso (d1f714)

  98. Did any of them get asked a China/NBA question? Any China questions at all?

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  99. no, but they got a question on ellen,

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. @50 This a personal belief only, no judgement on anyone else. In reality there are really only two choices for President. If I cannot vote for one, then I am functionally saying I think the other one should be President. Not voting, then, is just self-delusion and lying to myself is no better than lying to anyone else. So I cowboy-up and vote, even if I don’t really like the candidate I’m voting for.

    Nic (896fdf)

  101. 112. Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/16/2019 @ 2:50 pm

    Did any of them get asked a China/NBA question? Any China questions at all?

    They didn’t get asked about China, but a few of them spoke about it a little. China came up mostly in connection with a question about Turkey.

    One candidate mentioned Hong Kong (the subject of the deleted NBA tweet)

    BUTTIGIEG: But this is really important, because what this president has done shows that American leadership shapes the behavior of our allies, or sometimes allies, too. Remember, the problem right now is not just that — with our competitors. And, for example a place like China, the people of Hong Kong rise up for democracy and don’t get a peep of support from the president. It’s just not the behavior of adversaries like Russia.

    Three other candiates mentioned China in some fashion:

    O’ROURKE: And we have a responsibility to be fearless in the face of this
    president’s criminality and his lawlessness. The fact that…as president… he..invited President Zelensky to involve himself in our politics, as well as China, in exchange for favorable trade terms in an upcoming trade deal.

    KLOBUCHAR: We need to work with our allies, to work with Turkey and bring them out. This is an outrageous thing that happened here. And I think we need to talk about this not only in terms of the horror of what happened here with Turkey, but the fact that our president blew it and now he’s too proud to say it.

    … Think about our allies in Europe when he pulls out of the Iranian agreement and gives them holding the bag and gives the power to China and Russia.

    SANDERS: Joe, you talked about working with Republicans and getting things done. But you know what you also got done? … You got trade agreements, like NAFTA and PNTR, with China done, which have cost us 4 million jobs.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  102. Sammy says: “That was mischarterizing – it wasn’t a legitimate interpretation of what Trump said in the July 25, 2019 telephone call. Trump was right that he should recuse himself or resign”

    I don’t agree, Sammy, but If “mischaracterizing” is cause for recusal or resignation…. where does that leave Barr? Or Trump. If it weren’t for double standards, you’d have no standards at all.

    noel (f22371)

  103. Elijah Cummings RP> This morning. In Johns Hopkins from longstanding health problems his staff said. He looked a bit weak, but not that sick. He was easy going. Trump gave him a hard time over his political failures, which he shared with every other urban Democrat from a distrcict with ahigh crime rate (and otehr problems that went with that.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  104. 118. noel (f22371) — 10/17/2019 @ 3:18 am

    I don’t agree, Sammy, but if “mischaracterizing” is cause for recusal or resignation…. where does that leave Barr? Or Trump. If it weren’t for double standards, you’d have no standards at all.

    It wasn’t general mischarcterizing but his Schiff’s excuse would be that he was interpreting what Trump said.He was almost pretending that was what really said (everyone knew they had atranscript)

    Barr didn’t distort the Meller report. Perhaps he disregarded the caveats, that there could be obstruction. But nothing he said was wrong.

    Schiff was heading what is supposed to be an impartial bipartian committee.

    Sammy Finkelman (3ce3e5)

  105. Sammy says: “Barr didn’t distort the Meller report.”

    Do I really need to respond, Sammy?

    noel (f22371)

  106. “The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office’s work and conclusions,” MUELLER wrote. MUELLER wrote. MUELLER wrote.

    noel (f22371)

  107. @122 There are a few distinctions between those two situations. However you want to characterize what Barr said he did release the report. Schiff has a history of flat out lying about information he supposedly has because of his position but “can’t release”. This thing with the transcript isn’t the first time. That’s also a large part of why he’s shifted to closed door testimony. Someone in his position shouldn’t be doing that and that is a true statement no matter who is saying it.

    On the plus side, I hear Pelosi made a decision about whether to vote on the impeachment inquiry yesterday. Maybe we can get this ball rolling.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  108. Weissman who destroyed arthur andersen, because of a tiny group working at enron, wrote the secomd half of that report.

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. Since this has turned into a link thread, someone should investigate this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  110. Ah yes nifongs last defender on earth,

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. Is that comment directed at me?

    DRJ (15874d)

  112. If so, apologize now because that is not true and you know it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  113. No that was cohans previous work, he ran over the duke lacrosse boys all over again, vanity fair isnt fit for trash.

    narciso (d1f714)

  114. Very interesting article at your link at 126, DRJ. I find the implication very credible. I would even say that I have no doubt that Trump and his money-grubbing criminal family and cronies are manipulating the markets for both pecuniary and political profit as the writer describes.

    nk (dbc370)

  115. Has Trump picked out the formal he’ll wear to the impeachment inquiry yet?

    nk (dbc370)

  116. I think the reason for discrediting/ignoring the message because of the messenger is to avoid falling victim to incorrect information. That is reasonable but it is also true that “bad” messengers can have accurate messages, and “good” messengers can have inaccurate messages.

    It seems to me that reading widely and exercising judgment is a better tactic … but you know this and I think that is what you try to do. Thus, I view your comment a deflection to avoid this topic.

    DRJ (15874d)

  117. I agree, nk 132.

    DRJ (15874d)

  118. Hes a patent fraud, who tried to salvage duke and nifongs reputation

    narciso (d1f714)

  119. Now graydon carter covered for s
    Epstein 16 years ago, pretended to be against weinstein, but showed no evidence of it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  120. She took on weissman and won 9-0, could salvage arthur andersen hsbc and accenture were the remaining scraps.

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/17/why-it-matters-that-sidney-powell-wants-data-from-joseph-mifsuds-smartphones/

    narciso (d1f714)

  121. They paid 6 million for this,

    https://thedispatch.com/

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. My friend clarice took om what seemed an impossible case and challenged a watergate prosecutor on appeal and won, the slug went on to be a vp at united technologies

    narciso (d1f714)


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